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Log for #openttd on 8th August 2011:
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00:48:33  <pjpe> what are the 2 generations of 2cc wagons for
00:48:40  <pjpe> they don't seem to be much different
00:51:29  <Eddi|zuHause> they have different design speed, so if you have faster engines, the newer generations cost less to run
00:52:06  <pjpe> ah
00:52:12  <Eddi|zuHause> there are like 6 generations over the years
00:52:16  <pjpe> what if wagon speed limits are off?
00:53:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the design speed/running costs are independent from wagonspeedlimits
00:53:26  <Eddi|zuHause> but i have never actually played the 2cc-set
00:55:09  <pjpe> what if it doesn't show the design speed in the window
00:55:16  <pjpe> it just has empty space after it
00:55:31  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea
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07:15:54  <planetmaker> moin
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07:21:38  <dihedral> good morning
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08:13:42  <dihedral> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO-phqmyqdY :-P
08:13:47  <dihedral> that really cracked me up
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08:32:11  <Terkhen> good morning
08:33:22  <planetmaker> hello Terkhen
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10:12:20  <dihedral> last workday today - then: holiday
10:12:28  <dihedral> a week of funfares
10:12:34  <dihedral> 5 days - 5 funfares :-D
10:16:05  <SpComb> last holiday today, work tomorrow :(
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10:21:21  <__ln__> 'qapla
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10:49:32  <krinn> hi
10:51:21  <krinn> i've made a test AI for ai authors, i would like a space @openttd-coop to hold the code, is there a way to have a "manager" that could add another dev that wish update it (without my aggrement) ?
10:53:44  <planetmaker> a manager of a project can add people to the project
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10:54:47  <krinn> great, who could be manager ?
10:55:01  <planetmaker> you made the testAI. So I guess you?
10:56:01  <krinn> oh i've just check, i'm manager for dictatorAI
10:56:07  <planetmaker> Besides a project's managers, the three admins of the DevZone could in principle also assign people to projects. But I prefer to not exercise that right, unless it's clear that it is desired
10:56:16  <planetmaker> then you can create also a new project already
10:56:32  <planetmaker> just click on "NewProject" in the project list overview
10:56:38  <planetmaker> upper right...
10:57:03  <krinn> ah cool, i would like the code be shared, and update by anyone that wish it even i'm not here to agree (it's just a test ai nothing really harm could be done to it)
10:58:01  <planetmaker> you're creating a project already?
10:58:12  <krinn> i'm looking for the create option
10:58:34  <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects <-- should be there
10:58:46  <krinn> great thank you
10:59:24  <planetmaker> Name is the name in the project list, the identifier is the directory name. Please choose ai-XXXX
11:00:13  <planetmaker> select also the module "Repository"
11:00:21  <krinn> i've named it AIVehicleTest -> ai-aivehicletest ?
11:00:38  <planetmaker> but don't try to configure it, it will be done automatically. Yes, that's ok. or just ai-vehicletest. Whatever you like
11:01:30  <krinn> ai-aivehicletest then in case one create another ai name VehicleTest
11:02:42  <krinn> repository module is the 2nd line 3rd one in the list ? (it's translate to french for me)
11:06:14  <planetmaker> I don't know the french translations. There are checkboxes for "modules" to use in the project. "issue tracking" and "url tabs" are default.
11:06:25  <planetmaker> Select in that list also the "repository" one
11:07:05  <krinn> i think i've found it, now create, can you help with next steps ?
11:07:43  <planetmaker> when you checked that box, too, just click the 'save' button below
11:07:52  <krinn> done
11:08:27  <planetmaker> now you have to add yourself as manager.
11:08:45  <krinn> it have autoadd me i see
11:08:58  <planetmaker> ah, it did? great.
11:09:32  <krinn> can i add you as manager to check it ?
11:09:48  <planetmaker> I'm admin, I can check it also without that right :-P
11:09:58  <krinn> great :P
11:10:31  <planetmaker> the other two are A mmler and Y exo
11:10:41  <krinn> one i've check seems not to be the good "repo" option :/
11:11:10  <krinn> i have no "repo" tab (hellish translation !)
11:11:14  <planetmaker> you checked the correct one
11:11:24  <planetmaker> the repo is already created and you can push to it.
11:11:50  <krinn> with mercurial?
11:11:55  <planetmaker> yes
11:12:21  <planetmaker> same URL as for your AI, but the last part is ai-aivehicletest
11:14:45  <krinn> trying to remember the hg creation :p
11:14:53  <planetmaker> you can also pull ;-)
11:15:07  <planetmaker> hg clone http://hg.openttdcoop.org/ai-aivehicletest
11:15:17  <planetmaker> s/pull/clone/
11:15:41  <planetmaker> you'll need to setup then the https URL for push
11:16:56  <krinn> hg pull fail :)
11:17:46  <krinn> lol found solve, hg init
11:19:39  <planetmaker> yeah, not pull. Clone
11:20:07  <planetmaker> but if you init, you don't need to clone. But you'll edit you .hg/hgrc accordingly to point to the correct URL of the devzone repo
11:20:36  <krinn> look out the repo must be update now
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11:22:03  <krinn> we have a way to push a tar file with the AI, i don't wish put that ai in bananas, no use for users
11:22:12  <Elish4> It just made it to my mind, to spice up the game with random traffic from actual citizens of the city?
11:22:22  <Elish4> or cities*
11:22:39  <planetmaker> Elish4, get the generic cars NewGRF and the TownCar AI
11:22:47  <Elish4> :o
11:22:50  <Elish4> awesome!
11:24:02  <krinn> planetmaker, oh and btw you remember the value to tell openttd to not use that ai as random ai?
11:24:09  <krinn> the one in the info.nut
11:25:15  <planetmaker> I never knew the value :-)
11:25:47  <krinn> :) this one should be wrote in the wiki
11:26:21  <planetmaker> please find out and amend the wiki :-)
11:27:19  <planetmaker> A wiki lives from people adding things when they were annoyed to not have found it where expected :-)
11:27:51  <krinn> never used one, but i'm sure zuu could update it
11:28:32  <planetmaker> relying on other people to edit the wiki usually fails ;-)
11:28:48  <planetmaker> and *someone* is a very elusive and illusive person...
11:28:50  <planetmaker> @seen someone
11:28:51  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: someone was last seen in #openttd 42 weeks, 1 day, 17 hours, 48 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <Someone> indeed
11:28:54  <krinn> http://noai.openttd.org/docs/trunk/classAIInfo.html#436d1beff0250b8ba307c46e7a7b394b
11:29:00  <krinn> found it :)
11:29:17  <planetmaker> ha, even there ;-)
11:33:09  <krinn> possible to have the tar file upload there or should i drop it to the forum instead ?
11:33:32  <krinn> for ones that don't wish/know howto clone the repot to get it
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11:39:02  <planetmaker> most people will rather search the forums, I assume
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11:39:21  <planetmaker> You could add the module "files" and attach it there, if you like
11:40:05  <krinn> i'm doing a forum entry with the ai, it will be easier
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11:56:03  <krinn> ok done, thank you planetmaker
11:58:44  <planetmaker> you're welcome :-)
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14:18:11  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a (trunk, but doesn't really appear there) bug with drawing fences: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2012.%20Mai%201988.png anyone familiar with the logic-magic in rail_cmd.cpp:DrawTrackFence_*?
14:20:03  <planetmaker> at least one fence has a wrong slope
14:21:22  <Eddi|zuHause> yep
14:22:07  <Eddi|zuHause> rail_cmd.cpp:if (ti->tileh != SLOPE_FLAT) rfo = (ti->tileh & SLOPE_S) ? RFO_SLOPE_SW : RFO_SLOPE_NE; <-- this line is probably not right in some corner cases
14:28:28  <Eddi|zuHause> another corner case: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%206.%20Jul%201988.png
14:32:38  <Eddi|zuHause> is there a check whether there is a foundation between tile1 and tile2 (both adjacent tile indices), or a half-foundation on a tile?
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15:53:18  <IchGuckLive> Hi all
15:53:25  <IchGuckLive> Eddi|zuHause:  ? B)
15:56:23  <IchGuckLive> i try to find a Documentation on what alll this inserts to a transport instructions are doing
15:57:04  <IchGuckLive> there has a llot changed till 0.6
15:59:12  <planetmaker> that's like 3 years
15:59:55  <IchGuckLive> it woudt also be good to have a information on what tiles a Town ownes  Entyer  so you do not have to look at every tile
16:00:46  <IchGuckLive> planetmaker:  ubuntu distros still hold that old version in stock
16:02:51  <planetmaker> complain then
16:03:00  <planetmaker> or use a new ubuntu, if they updated
16:03:16  <IchGuckLive> i upgreadet to 1.1.2-Rc1
16:03:16  <planetmaker> but complain to the ubuntu maintainers ;-)
16:03:29  <planetmaker> good choice, I guess
16:03:57  <IchGuckLive> but i try to find infos on the new featurers under that transport instructions
16:04:11  <__ln__> IchGuckLive: ubuntu does not upgrade any software within one ubuntu release.
16:04:26  <IchGuckLive> B)
16:05:33  <IchGuckLive> infos on instructions sutch as load for 3 Days
16:05:45  <IchGuckLive> or wait till 50% load
16:07:10  <IchGuckLive> the new  game performence has a mutch better outcome i owne now after 8Years 10mio cash
16:08:06  <IchGuckLive> seams also the citys grow faster when suplied with goods
16:09:49  <IchGuckLive> ok by try to find some answers in a forum later !
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16:35:40  <Rubidium> planetmaker: ubuntu maintainers? What's that supposed to be?
16:36:43  <Rubidium> e.g. did you know that, according to Ubuntu, AI-Trans (the AI) is upstream of the OpenTTD Ubuntu package?
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16:57:16  <phatmatt> hi, is there a user with a 'Project Manager' account on flyspray for the openttd project?
16:57:31  <phatmatt> as in, one that's around :P
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17:00:52  <Burtybob> I have "network.server_admin_chat" set to on but my admin network bot still doesn't pick up "private" chat. However it does pick up normal (public chat) fine. Does anyone have any suggestions?
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17:09:29  <phatmatt> planetmaker: you around?
17:09:49  <Terkhen> @get #openttd -3
17:09:49  <DorpsGek> Terkhen: Don't ask to ask, just ask
17:10:18  <phatmatt> sure, but he helped with my flyspray stuff before, and no-one else responded
17:10:24  <phatmatt> just wanted to highlight his nick
17:10:34  <Terkhen> better to highlight with a question
17:10:59  <phatmatt> yeah, but i need it to be private :P
17:11:06  <Terkhen> send a private message
17:11:12  <Terkhen> burtybob: is the admin network supposed to know aout private chat?
17:11:15  <Terkhen> about*
17:11:20  * planetmaker returns from dinner
17:11:26  <phatmatt> wellllll that's why i asked for someone who was one and here now but ok
17:11:28  <burtybob> Yes, from what I read it is.
17:11:30  <phatmatt> nvm :P
17:11:42  <burtybob> "The configuration option network.server_admin_chat specifies whether   private chat for to the server is distributed into the admin network."
17:11:51  <planetmaker> phatmatt: even without confidential information released, the problem certainly can be explained ;-)
17:11:53  <Terkhen> oh, private chat to the server
17:12:01  <Terkhen> I thought you meant all private chat :P
17:12:04  <burtybob> Oh...
17:12:05  <Terkhen> that makes sense
17:12:23  <burtybob> That's how I read it as "all chat" since the "server" can see all private messages I believe
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17:13:14  <Terkhen> I don't know much about the admin network, but I don't think it is supposed to be able to eavesdrop all private conversations
17:15:38  <burtybob> That would make sense
17:17:20  <burtybob> I was just reading it wrong lol, however there is a dest type of DESTTYPE_CLIENT and DESTTYPE_TEAM which added to my confusion I think
17:21:48  <Terkhen> ok :)
17:23:00  <burtybob> Would be handy from an admin point of view but I can see how it could be abused though :(
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17:40:41  <X-Frank-X> Hi all :-)
17:42:42  <planetmaker> hm, I sense a first application actually using the admin interface
17:43:08  <Terkhen> hi X-Frank-X
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17:45:16  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22730 /trunk/src/lang/hungarian.txt:
17:45:16  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:16  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 changes by IPG
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17:46:09  <X-Frank-X> Hi Terkhen, was just reading your forum posting, thanks for replying
17:46:49  <X-Frank-X> I was actually just thinking "in the box" of a multiplayer server in my first post...
17:48:05  <Terkhen> yes, my answer was mostly regarding trunk inclusion, but a public patch that works would be nice too :P
17:48:33  <X-Frank-X> well, I was just replying to your forum post to get the conversation going :-)
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17:48:49  <X-Frank-X> but what i'm saying is actually that I will work on it :-)
17:48:56  <Terkhen> nice :)
17:49:12  <X-Frank-X> allthough it would be nice if I could get some help here and there, but I guess this is the right channel for it :-)
17:49:40  <X-Frank-X> have been studying on the code for some time now... Now I guess it would be a nice idea to "jump in" :-)
17:50:08  <Terkhen> yes, this is the right channel
17:50:21  <Terkhen> depending on what you plan to do, it might be a very big project :P
17:50:49  <X-Frank-X> well, in the first place I will just study the code of the beta "Citybuilder" script for 0.7.4
17:51:00  <X-Frank-X> and will try to integrate it in a patch for 1.1.1
17:51:10  <X-Frank-X> that's step 1
17:51:28  <Terkhen> hmm... I don't remember if 0.7.4 is from before or after the big change regarding goal patches
17:51:38  <X-Frank-X> I think it's from before
17:51:51  <X-Frank-X> cause everything is VERY different if you look at the code of 0.7.1
17:51:53  <Terkhen> I don't remember much about it honestly, IIRC it was something about not allowing commands done by "no one" anymore
17:51:54  <planetmaker> X-Frank-X: don't patch releases
17:51:58  <planetmaker> work with openttd trunk
17:52:08  <X-Frank-X> well...
17:52:15  <Terkhen> if that patch is from before that change, you will need a new approach
17:52:20  <X-Frank-X> ok
17:52:38  <planetmaker> Terkhen: yes, that was changed since
17:52:43  <X-Frank-X> Planetmaker: I was just thinking about the stable releases, cause that's what most players use right now
17:52:44  <planetmaker> pre- 1.0
17:52:59  <planetmaker> X-Frank-X: but patches for stable releases are useless for development
17:53:03  <X-Frank-X> true
17:53:13  <X-Frank-X> but this would be a multiplayer server patch...
17:53:18  <X-Frank-X> that was my idea
17:53:19  <planetmaker> so?
17:53:29  <X-Frank-X> well, most clients are the stable release!
17:53:31  <X-Frank-X> but
17:53:34  <planetmaker> development happens in trunk
17:53:56  <X-Frank-X> It wouldn't be such a big step if I have it working for 1.1.1 to make it compatible with the Trunk release
17:53:59  <X-Frank-X> I guess?
17:54:02  <planetmaker> if you want to go the "I patch stables" you most probably go an approach which won't lead to anything actually happening
17:54:14  <X-Frank-X> I understand
17:54:31  <X-Frank-X> I will actually check first what I can do
17:54:44  <planetmaker> and... as written, goals / scenarios need a single-player component. Thus patching servers is not the way
17:54:55  <planetmaker> it's the wrong way actually
17:55:14  <X-Frank-X> well... online there is a server which is server side patched and gives the citybuilder module
17:55:21  <X-Frank-X> that was my original target to make
17:55:31  <X-Frank-X> but I understand what you are saying
17:55:48  <planetmaker> yes, people do that. But those are rather hacks. And they'll never have a chance to hit the main development branch
17:55:57  <X-Frank-X> ok
17:56:04  <X-Frank-X> get the point :-)
17:56:11  <planetmaker> Thus you choose: do something which may actually be useful beyond your server. Or ... just make yet another hacked server with goals / whatever
17:56:14  <X-Frank-X> I will do my best to develop for the trunk release!
17:56:22  <Terkhen> great :)
17:56:31  <Terkhen> then IMO you should aim for something that uses script
17:56:45  <X-Frank-X> so, what would be the best approach in this case?
17:56:47  <Terkhen> but that makes the project huge :P
17:57:01  <X-Frank-X> If I want to be able to make it single player, offcourse
17:57:15  <X-Frank-X> but the squirrel approach, is that even possible>
17:57:16  <X-Frank-X> ?
17:57:18  <planetmaker> apropos... I think there's two things which can be separated: goals (as in defining an ending) and scenario / script control which trigger events based on *whatever*
17:57:29  <Terkhen> ^
17:57:32  <Terkhen> that's the problem with this feature
17:57:34  <Terkhen> defining limits :P
17:57:43  <planetmaker> :-)
17:57:52  <X-Frank-X> exactly, maybe i should put up a project approach :-)
17:57:58  <Terkhen> if you only want a way to define score and an ending... huge scripts are probably wrong
17:58:00  <X-Frank-X> setting a first goal
17:58:03  <planetmaker> I guess first excluding game changes might be a good decision. Just definiable goals
17:58:08  <planetmaker> yep
17:58:29  <Terkhen> maybe "only goals and score, but don't close the door to future implementations of more complicated stuff"
17:58:30  <X-Frank-X> well, that shouldn't be to difficult, I mean, I got plenty of ideas (I think ;-))
17:59:00  <X-Frank-X> so setting up the project goal wouldn't be to difficult as a first step
18:00:14  <X-Frank-X> originally I had 2 approaches: Setting a goal based on company value
18:00:42  <X-Frank-X> and building a city with bringin cargo to the city and make it grow where your goal is the amount of people in a city
18:01:04  <X-Frank-X> and the cargo demand will grow with the city offcourse
18:01:23  <planetmaker> the latter is anything but "of course"
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18:01:37  <X-Frank-X> lol
18:01:43  <X-Frank-X> true
18:02:07  <planetmaker> adding a goal "city population" and "company value" probably are moderately easy
18:02:30  <X-Frank-X> I thought so to... but is that doable with for example Squirrel
18:02:33  <planetmaker> adding a game change "increase good demand for further city growth" is quite a fundamental economical change
18:02:40  <Terkhen> oooh, maybe is the moment to have the town growth discussion again :)
18:02:50  <planetmaker> :-)
18:02:51  <Terkhen> it is, again, a problem of scope
18:02:52  <X-Frank-X> :) Had that before?
18:03:03  <planetmaker> once? twice? n-times I guess :-)
18:03:07  <Terkhen> X-Frank-X: I was planning on handling town growth changes via NewGRF
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18:03:22  <Terkhen> see http://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/Town_Control
18:03:39  <Terkhen> some people prefer a NewGRF approach, other people a approach via scripts
18:04:05  <Terkhen> but Alberth is not here :P
18:04:19  <planetmaker> we'll probably end up with both :-P
18:04:22  <X-Frank-X> lol, and your approach is over NewGRF?
18:04:32  <planetmaker> though I prefer towns handled by newgrfs
18:04:40  <Terkhen> me too, but Alberth is right about something
18:04:51  <X-Frank-X> what will be the "win" with NewGRF? No Game code structure change?
18:05:04  <Terkhen> implementing *anything* with NewGRFs makes it more difficult to understand to AIs and scripts
18:05:05  <X-Frank-X> sorry, I have to roll in a little...
18:05:14  <X-Frank-X> ok
18:05:15  <Terkhen> he made other valid points, but that was the one that convinced me
18:05:26  <Terkhen> X-Frank-X: yes, that's the big win :P
18:05:51  <X-Frank-X> sorry if I ask stupid questions sometimes, just want to make myself confortable with everything :-)
18:05:57  <Terkhen> don't worry :)
18:06:07  <Terkhen> my questions were far more stupid :P
18:06:11  <X-Frank-X> lol
18:06:24  <planetmaker> NewGRF would probably much more flexible. But yes, the interface to AIs and scripts would be "interesting". Actually also to players
18:06:25  <X-Frank-X> so, does the NewGRF approach have access to all game aspects?
18:06:37  <planetmaker> many. All: no
18:06:40  <Terkhen> many, yes
18:06:42  <X-Frank-X> ok
18:07:03  <X-Frank-X> I though NewGRF was for graphics only *sigh*
18:07:05  <Terkhen> it's not a problem of what is it capable to do, it has more to do with its relation with other features
18:07:13  <X-Frank-X> roger that
18:07:15  <Terkhen> for example, AIs have a hard time already with industry newgrfs
18:07:31  <Terkhen> for example, they might not know what is stockpiling
18:07:38  <X-Frank-X> ah
18:07:43  <Terkhen> even harder with vehicles: some sets for example require a caboose for trains
18:07:44  <planetmaker> that *could* be given them, though
18:07:49  <Terkhen> but the AI has no way to know that
18:07:58  * Terkhen is just giving random examples to explain the general issue :P
18:08:06  <planetmaker> but it's not easy. Both on OpenTTD and AI side
18:08:07  <X-Frank-X> :)
18:08:15  <planetmaker> Terkhen: of course
18:08:21  <Terkhen> a town growth approach with NewGRFs would have the same problem, your goal scripts would have a hard time trying to understand what the town growth NewGRF does
18:08:34  <Terkhen> and that's what convinced me to stop coding :P
18:08:39  <X-Frank-X> ah
18:08:45  <planetmaker> hm, did that?
18:08:46  <X-Frank-X> thank you for that heads up ;-)
18:09:07  <Terkhen> planetmaker: yes, I'd like to have goal scripts too :P
18:09:12  <planetmaker> :-)
18:09:16  <X-Frank-X> :-)
18:09:27  <X-Frank-X> cool, so it's actually not a new idea...
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18:09:33  <X-Frank-X> (offcourse not)
18:09:35  <X-Frank-X> duh
18:09:57  <planetmaker> it's probably just a matter of where you draw the line between a (future) game control script interface and the existing game control via NewGRFs
18:09:59  <Terkhen> it's new that someone aims for trunk inclusion with his goal patch :P
18:10:11  <planetmaker> In principle a goal framework via NewGRFs is thinkable, too
18:10:19  <Terkhen> urgh
18:10:25  <planetmaker> given NML? :-)
18:10:37  <Terkhen> hmm...
18:10:42  <X-Frank-X> NML? sorry, didn't get that
18:10:49  <planetmaker> newgrf programming language
18:10:54  <Terkhen> NML is a language for newgrfs
18:11:03  <X-Frank-X> well... I guess it's now C++?
18:11:04  <X-Frank-X> :-)
18:11:09  <X-Frank-X> now = not
18:11:11  <Terkhen> nml is like c, nfo is like assembler :P
18:11:33  <X-Frank-X> crap... but there are alot of examples out there, so have to go to study then :-)
18:11:50  <X-Frank-X> on NML
18:12:02  <X-Frank-X> but offcourse the same goes for AI and Squirrel
18:12:07  <Terkhen> you might want to explore newgrfs and AIs a bit, yes :P
18:12:12  <X-Frank-X> will do
18:12:28  <X-Frank-X> allthough I was just getting interested in C++ ;-)
18:12:28  <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-landscape/repository/entry/src/company_land.pnml <-- like that is NewGRFs in NML
18:12:29  <X-Frank-X> lol
18:12:34  <X-Frank-X> thanks
18:12:37  <planetmaker> you find on the same page AIs
18:12:38  <X-Frank-X> *click*
18:13:51  <frosch123> [20:07] <Terkhen> for example, AIs have a hard time already with industry newgrfs <- ais wont have an easier job with scripted economy either :)
18:14:24  <X-Frank-X> :S
18:14:27  <planetmaker> as you now have noticed, X-Frank-X, this is neither an easy topic nor something where a "best way" is currently paved or defined
18:14:29  <frosch123> so, i would put it differently. newgrfs are for controlling simple entities of which there are a lot of
18:14:39  <planetmaker> like towns? ;-)
18:14:43  <frosch123> scripts are for controlling big entities where there is only a few of
18:14:52  <Terkhen> true :P
18:14:57  <Terkhen> and yes, I agree with that
18:14:57  <X-Frank-X> :-)
18:15:11  <planetmaker> sounds like a good distinction
18:15:38  <X-Frank-X> ok... So got a few options anyway now :-) lol...
18:16:05  <X-Frank-X> will just check first what the boundaries of the different options are...
18:16:06  <planetmaker> but... to me that sounds like "towns are newgrfs", especially as they exist partially there. Still. For a goal framework town growth mechanisms is IMHO (for now) secondary
18:16:22  <frosch123> planetmaker: newgrf are for growing a single town
18:16:25  <X-Frank-X> ^
18:16:34  <frosch123> a script is for balancing the growth across the whole map
18:16:34  <planetmaker> frosch123: yes
18:16:56  <planetmaker> that I agree with. No parent object "region" or "map" for the town feature ;-)
18:17:37  <Terkhen> but then you need to be able to allow access to specific towns via NewGRF
18:17:49  <Terkhen> the planned town control affected all of them
18:18:20  <frosch123> Terkhen: the town control is for making towns react to indidivual triggers for them, like cargo delivery
18:18:33  <X-Frank-X> yeps
18:18:42  <X-Frank-X> so crucial for a city builder script
18:18:44  <frosch123> scripts would be for making the total population of the world grow from 1950-1970 in the northern part of the map
18:18:45  <X-Frank-X> I guess
18:18:50  <frosch123> and after that only in the southern part
18:19:09  <X-Frank-X> ah
18:19:09  <Terkhen> and how would the script and the town control NewGRF interact?
18:19:41  <planetmaker> like two vehicle newgrfs w/o engine pool: both just do their thing ;-)
18:19:51  <frosch123> X-Frank-X: also, newgrfs have simple decision making. they are not turing-complete and work with decision trees and very few storages. scripts on the otherhand are normal imperative programming
18:20:03  <Terkhen> but that's not comparable, in this case the script and the NewGRF are expected to work together
18:20:04  <frosch123> Terkhen: you have to merge it somehow
18:20:08  <frosch123> which would be the job of ottd
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18:20:34  <planetmaker> a non-trivial task
18:20:37  <Terkhen> yes