Log for #openttd on 19th December 2011:
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00:10:24  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23589 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_config.cpp ai/ai_gui.cpp lang/english.txt): -Codechange: Make the AI-start-delay setting translateable.
00:10:53  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23590 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: make the string validation settings better expandable
00:11:33  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23591 /trunk/src/lang/ (english_US.txt french.txt serbian.txt):
00:11:33  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
00:11:33  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: english_US - 1 changes by Rubidium
00:11:33  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
00:11:33  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: serbian - 51 changes by etran
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00:22:18  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23592 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix (r23590): forgot one case
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00:44:06  <Eddi|zuHause> odd time for a translators commit
00:44:18  <Yexo> CIA-6  is lagging
00:44:22  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah
00:44:24  <__ln__> by several hours
00:44:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i figured :)
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08:15:42  <dihedral> greetings
08:26:20  <__ln__> the great leader is dead
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09:00:30  <planetmaker> And the magazine "Der Spiegel" got it wrong: showing a news woman from North Korea in black clothing with a text which hints that the black cloths she wears are an indication of grief...
09:00:50  <planetmaker> and sorrow... albeit white is the colour of sorrow and grief in Korea
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09:18:27  <peter1138> planetmaker, did you not recognise those 32bpp sprites by their incorrect height? :)
09:19:17  <planetmaker> in the "wrong company colour" posting?
09:19:21  <planetmaker> not really
09:19:26  <peter1138> in Re: [8bpp] Graphics Replacement Project - OpenGFX
09:19:34  <peter1138> oh yeah, company colour problem
09:20:01  <planetmaker> I don't know what he used, but trunk and normal OpenGFX, also with 32bpp-anim don't have that issue
09:20:12  <peter1138> install 32bpp-ez sprites
09:20:14  <peter1138> then you'll see it
09:20:15  <peter1138> :)
09:20:35  <planetmaker> meh...
09:20:38  <peter1138> with trunk & normal opengfx
09:20:52  <peter1138> it highlights the need for a coherent 32bpp pack
09:21:04  <planetmaker> wait, I install the EZ sprites and that has an impact on trunk even if they're not used?
09:21:21  <peter1138> it contains normal zoom sprites too...
09:21:25  <planetmaker> ah, ok
09:21:41  <planetmaker> obviously very broken as they're tailored for a patch which is also broken
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09:22:50  <peter1138> i don't know how that recolour algorithm affects old-style 8bpp recolouring
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09:24:28  <planetmaker> Dunno... but it's a bad idea nevertheless, if it affects it
09:24:49  <peter1138> hmm?
09:25:11  <peter1138> that's what i mean, i don't know if it does. if it does, i'm not touching it :)
09:25:24  <planetmaker> exactly :-)
09:26:16  <peter1138> i could mutilate the mask image to provide more information
09:26:37  <peter1138> would be harder to make the mask image though :(
09:27:11  <peter1138> r = palette index (hue/bri/sat), g = brightness mod, b = saturation mod
09:27:29  <peter1138> hmm
09:27:47  <peter1138> actually that wouldn't work because the rgbam format wouldn't be enough
09:29:03  <peter1138> you could store that information in the normal rgb part, however that's used for pre-caching the rgb value when drawing non-recoloured sprites, i.e. the majority of cases
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09:31:36  <planetmaker> I posted a hint that they might review all their CC in the 32bpp sprites
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09:48:34  <peter1138> planetmaker, welll
09:48:47  <peter1138> planetmaker, they're not broken like that with the 32bpp-ez patch... o_O
09:49:58  <peter1138> e.g.
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09:50:03  <peter1138> recolouring is still dodgy though
09:50:18  <peter1138> the far left engine appears to be a different hue
09:51:23  <planetmaker> peter1138: that may be true. But I'm not interested in compatibility with the EZ patch
09:51:44  <planetmaker> Especially if the EZ patch breaks sprite display in trunk
10:07:10  * dihedral greebles peter1138
10:16:55  * peter1138 nurnies dihedral
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10:32:00  <peter1138> hmm, do fences normally draw ontop of signals?
10:33:03  <peter1138> yes they do :S
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11:32:07  <peter1138> hmm
11:32:16  <peter1138> i have an original starwars action figure here
11:32:18  <peter1138> i wonder why
11:34:42  <Eddi|zuHause> 'cause you're a fanboy
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11:35:55  <fjb|tab> As long as he is not Dark Helmet...
11:36:49  <peter1138> it's Niem Numb
11:36:52  <peter1138> i had to look that up
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11:42:23  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. sure. i'd have said that, too. :p
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13:01:13  <andythenorth> hello
13:01:23  <Alberth> hi hi
13:01:55  * andythenorth is playing a game where most vehicles move at 15mph, or 40mph
13:02:08  <andythenorth> the 70mph train looks insanely fast by comparison
13:02:22  <appe> :)
13:02:25  <appe> that's how it should be
13:02:32  <appe> games with way to fast trains quickly become boring
13:02:53  <andythenorth> also the FIRS milk chain is flawed
13:05:41  *** LordPixaII is now known as Pixa
13:06:54  <planetmaker> it doesn't grew sour? ;-)
13:07:14  <andythenorth> there's nowhere to take it before 1892
13:07:21  <Alberth> Phew, east and west are at the right place :p
13:07:22  <planetmaker> hm :S
13:07:24  <andythenorth> and only after that if a Dairy happens to get built
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13:07:44  <planetmaker> so it should go directly to shops...
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13:08:03  <planetmaker> screw industry view and use acceptance callback :P
13:08:20  <andythenorth> planetmaker: tile acceptance....?
13:08:27  <andythenorth> tiles offer quite some flexibility....?
13:08:40  <planetmaker> I'd need to re-visit the details there
13:08:43  <andythenorth> this wouldn't be processed, it would be a black hole so...
13:09:04  <planetmaker> ah
13:09:13  <planetmaker> well.
13:09:19  <planetmaker> would work
13:09:24  <planetmaker> but... doesn't pay
13:09:57  <planetmaker> And I doubt that people in 1800 took their milk to a nearby town and then used it to clean the market place
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13:11:44  <andythenorth> hmm
13:11:56  * andythenorth has been awake a lot and is short of solutions
13:12:16  <andythenorth> maybe just introduce dairies earlier
13:16:31  <planetmaker> if you internet connect times are true and not just your machine you didn't sleep much ;-)
13:16:48  <planetmaker> s/internet/irc/ ;-)
13:17:10  <andythenorth> it's about accurate I'd say
13:17:49  <planetmaker> though... I didn't either. I had to finish building the Imperial Shuttle jointly with a friend of mine:
13:18:08  <planetmaker> took us from 11pm to about 3am
13:18:42  <planetmaker> well. 10pm actually
13:20:07  <andythenorth> :o
13:20:12  <andythenorth> that's insanely expensive Lego
13:20:19  <andythenorth> even allowing for the state of the Euro
13:21:04  <planetmaker> he bought it 2nd hand.
13:21:16  <planetmaker> but yes, it is
13:21:34  <andythenorth> this is the most expensive Lego I ever bought
13:21:56  <planetmaker> it was not that expensive. iirc ~150€ or so
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13:22:40  <planetmaker> next probject will be either the DeathStar2 or the SuperStarDestroyer ;-)
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13:23:53  <planetmaker> but... the DeathStar is really expensive....,4d810b6deb9e5,4d6bb16431bd38_9,lego-star-wars-10143-todesstern-ii--neu
13:24:32  <Alberth> andythenorth: star wars fans are old enough and crazy enough to put up that much money :p
13:24:35  <planetmaker> but it's another 1k parts more ;-)
13:25:52  <planetmaker> well, it's cool. You have a crank to lower or rise the wings even ;-)
13:25:54  <Noldo> must be somewhat boring to build
13:26:17  <planetmaker> not really
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13:27:34  <andythenorth> the DeathStar looks *awesome*
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13:32:38  <peter1138> hi
13:32:50  <andythenorth> hola
13:33:12  <peter1138> have you finished it yet?
13:33:39  <andythenorth> yes
13:33:42  <andythenorth> it's done
13:33:43  <peter1138> awesome
13:33:55  <andythenorth> it is pretty good
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13:34:01  <peter1138> good o
13:34:55  <peter1138> hmm
13:35:11  <andythenorth> you found a way to make it better?
13:35:17  <peter1138> yes i have
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13:35:41  <andythenorth> distribute cargo to industries on a round-robin basis?
13:35:44  <andythenorth> rather than nearest?
13:35:52  <andythenorth> allowing one station to serve two industries?
13:36:11  <peter1138> no, no, i built a line to barborough
13:42:14  <andythenorth> hmm
13:42:17  <andythenorth> FISH doesn't auto-refit
13:42:21  <andythenorth> this is probably incorrect
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13:46:14  <planetmaker> I'd probably allow three or four ship types: pax, piece, bulk and liquid.
13:46:21  <planetmaker> autorefit for everything within that category
13:46:38  <planetmaker> s/types/refit 'classes'/g
13:47:07  <andythenorth> I'll probably treat piece / bulk same for ships
13:47:14  <peter1138> ships need to support multiple cargo types
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13:50:21  <andythenorth> peter1138: multiple in one ship?
13:50:47  <andythenorth> I mean...they already do support multiple types
13:50:49  <peter1138> yeah
13:50:50  <andythenorth> but using XOR :P
13:50:53  <peter1138> obviously :p
13:51:05  <andythenorth> n or 2 types?
13:51:08  <andythenorth> 2 appeals to me
13:51:17  <peter1138> n
13:51:19  <andythenorth> meh
13:51:24  <peter1138> 32 i guess :p
13:51:25  <andythenorth> where's the constraint?
13:51:30  <andythenorth> constraints = good
13:51:48  <andythenorth> number of holds?
13:51:51  <andythenorth> might be interesting
13:52:18  <andythenorth> newgrf specified amount per ship, up to 32?
13:52:51  <peter1138>
13:52:59  <peter1138> ^ 32bpp recolouring :S
13:53:34  <andythenorth> hmm
13:53:41  <andythenorth> something appears to be eating my orders
13:53:45  <andythenorth> they're changing
13:53:53  <peter1138> ^ obvious where it switches to 8bpp
13:54:43  <peter1138> refit ship holds? hmm
13:54:47  <peter1138> articulated ships...
13:55:54  <andythenorth> vehicles in vehicles
13:55:58  <andythenorth> mornington crescent :P
13:56:16  <planetmaker> what's wrong with that re-colouring, peter1138? The dizzering in the CC colours (e.g. of the building)?
13:56:58  <peter1138> dithering
13:57:19  <peter1138> the 32bpp artists don't like it, and i can understand
13:57:38  <andythenorth> they should fix their lighting before they complain to others :P
13:57:46  <peter1138> well yes
13:57:55  <peter1138> i don't think they're complaining
13:58:58  <planetmaker> Arguably it doesn't look great. Indeed
14:03:05  <peter1138>
14:03:06  <peter1138> lol
14:03:27  <peter1138> i should post that in the thread :)
14:03:37  <appe> haha
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14:05:16  <andythenorth> it's nice
14:05:37  <andythenorth> hmm
14:05:44  <andythenorth> FIRS station algorithm is way too generous
14:05:50  <andythenorth> how to fix it?
14:06:08  <glx> some offsets look wrong
14:06:31  <peter1138> not just offsets :)
14:07:27  <planetmaker> it's a good screenshot which teaches a lot :-)
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14:07:33  <Belugas> Hello
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14:07:59  <planetmaker> hi Belugas
14:08:13  <andythenorth> can I demolish lighthouses?
14:13:05  <peter1138>
14:13:10  <peter1138> (using original graphics, not opengfx)
14:13:25  <peter1138> one could argue that the original graphics are too low, heh
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14:14:06  <peter1138> possibly opengfx changes that, but i can't see because of the fence, heh
14:18:07  <andythenorth> hmm
14:18:12  <andythenorth> trains are all well and good
14:18:31  <andythenorth> but you can transport a lot more cargo per route-tile with ships :P
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14:20:14  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23593 /trunk/src/ (rail_cmd.cpp road_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r23411): Infrastructure counts for rail were not properly updated when converting rail or building level crossings.
14:21:26  <peter1138> andythenorth, i've not seen any 32bpp-ez ships
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14:22:31  <peter1138> i've seen some screenshots with 32bpp-ez aircraft, but i've not got any with the mega
14:22:35  <peter1138> pack
14:35:48  <andythenorth> is there any known bug with vehicles losing orders right now
14:35:52  <andythenorth> tip trunk
14:35:59  <andythenorth> possibly whilst being ctrl-cloned
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14:38:48  <Eddi|zuHause> articulated trucks?
14:39:30  <andythenorth> ships
14:39:38  <andythenorth> possibly trams and trains
14:39:44  <andythenorth> haven't tried to prove it wasn't user error
14:40:29  <andythenorth> also
14:40:32  <andythenorth> canal tunnels?
14:44:47  <Eddi|zuHause> unlikely
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14:48:43  <andythenorth> the problem with starting FIRS early is that you then have to fund the later industries yourself :(
14:49:04  <Eddi|zuHause> don't they have random chance of appearing?
14:49:58  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should close the least used industry every X months
14:50:07  <Eddi|zuHause> to have more room for industry appearance
14:50:23  <andythenorth> not possible
14:50:26  <andythenorth> with newgrf
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14:53:54  <Eddi|zuHause> don't you have a per-grf-storage?
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14:58:27  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: one of the problems is that at the start of the game all industries are unused, ie all are the least used one
14:58:58  <andythenorth> no per-grf storage either
14:59:33  <Yexo> don't towns have per-grf storage?
15:00:55  <andythenorth> possibly
15:01:07  <andythenorth> I didn't keep up with how much town stuff is in trunk yet
15:01:09  <peter1138> hmm, oil wells three tiles from a refinery
15:01:32  <peter1138> i could build one stop and send the vehicle in a loop...
15:01:40  <andythenorth> pipeline
15:02:03  <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't work with one station
15:02:05  <andythenorth> I don't buy the "it's a transport game - no pipelines" argument
15:02:20  <andythenorth> it's got at least one problem, that argument :P
15:02:21  <peter1138> teleporters
15:02:52  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, develop a system which is not a "set up once, infinite moneymaker"
15:03:01  <peter1138> £15 per journey :p
15:03:08  <andythenorth> what - pipelines have infinite capacity?
15:03:12  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and have it include ski lifts, etc.
15:03:14  <andythenorth> and don't need pumping stations?
15:03:18  <andythenorth> and don't have run costs?
15:03:27  <andythenorth> and can pump at an infinite rate per unit time?
15:03:42  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: "infinite" i mean time-wise
15:03:53  <andythenorth> unlike ships?
15:04:01  <peter1138> i don't think the model fits ttd
15:04:55  * andythenorth thinks egrvts - wonderful set - but far too many vehicles
15:05:20  <andythenorth> Yexo: could we adjust FIRS station rating algo?
15:05:27  <Yexo> sure
15:05:43  <Yexo> just give me a precise definition of what you want and I'll code it
15:05:59  * andythenorth reads current code
15:06:22  <andythenorth> probably better to specify result, not implementation?
15:07:14  <andythenorth> what I actually want is to drop the rating where stations have > 1,000t waiting
15:07:21  <andythenorth> however that needs a bit more thought
15:07:38  <planetmaker> sounds like default, andythenorth ;-)
15:07:44  <andythenorth> indeed
15:08:03  <planetmaker> actually "waiting cargo" is imho not a good measure. Rather waiting cargo / turn-over-amount per month
15:08:34  <andythenorth> yes
15:08:51  <andythenorth> we did solve it once before I think, conceptually
15:09:18  <Yexo> turn-over-amount per month <- not sure that is available
15:11:31  <andythenorth> are we doing it with cb145?
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15:11:33  <andythenorth> I can't find the code
15:12:05  <planetmaker> Yexo: I think it is not available
15:12:21  <Yexo> andythenorth: code is in cargo_graphics.pnml
15:12:23  <planetmaker> might be feasible, if stations have persistent storage
15:13:05  <Yexo> might be better to let openttd keep track of it, and just provide a new var for it
15:13:30  <andythenorth> are we ok with the idea that there's no perfect answer to this?
15:13:40  <andythenorth> as I'm proposing to balance it closest to the sets I use
15:13:45  <andythenorth> and the typical capacity of trains I run :P
15:14:30  <Yexo> it depends more on your playstyle and on the actual sets you use
15:14:58  <andythenorth> I can tweak values locally and test
15:15:12  <andythenorth> I want to sink the rating faster for > 1,000t waiting
15:15:34  <Yexo> you can't change how fast the rating changes
15:15:46  <Yexo> you can only set the desired rating for > 1000t waiting
15:15:48  <andythenorth> faster / greater penalty /s
15:16:01  <andythenorth> poor english on my part :P
15:17:13  <andythenorth> the current algorithm is really fun, but I can't clear some stations
15:17:19  <andythenorth> actually there are two issues
15:17:42  <andythenorth> 1) accidentally delivering to a station will result in cargo that takes forever to die
15:17:54  <andythenorth> that's a minor point
15:17:57  <planetmaker> personally I'm not even sure it's a good idea to mess with station ratings too much
15:18:10  <planetmaker> It's a non-obvious thing to the players and cause suprises
15:18:31  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: 1) can be solved if you give a timeout like 3 months
15:18:34  <andythenorth> 2) I'm getting 'good' ratings even where there are obscene amounts of cargo waiting (due to frequent pickup)
15:18:59  <Yexo> andythenorth: but the new rating was designed to give somewhat higher ratings than the default rating
15:19:06  <Eddi|zuHause> or even 6 months
15:19:22  <andythenorth> Yexo: I'm hoping it's just a matter of tweaking
15:19:32  <andythenorth> I don't really understand the spec enough for this
15:19:33  <Eddi|zuHause> and then _drastically_ dropping the rating
15:20:19  <Eddi|zuHause> the throughput per month idea is a feature request on openttd's side
15:21:04  <andythenorth> there's *no* way to get the age of the cargo *on* the station is there?
15:22:18  <andythenorth> var 63?
15:22:53  <andythenorth> hmm
15:22:54  <andythenorth> not
15:24:58  <Yexo> indeed, no way to get that information
15:27:02  * andythenorth misses how often cb145 runs?
15:28:39  <Yexo> every time the staion rating is recalculated, I think every 2,5 days
15:29:39  <V453000> andythenorth: when can we expect a new release of FIRS? :)
15:30:19  <andythenorth> Yexo: I think all I need to do is increase penalty for large amounts of waiting cargo
15:30:53  <andythenorth> V453000: unkown
15:31:49  <V453000> I was just wondering about the toyland compatibility, in r2654 it loads in toyland, but 0.6.4 doesnt
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15:50:46  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: cargo doesn't age at stations
15:51:43  <Eddi|zuHause> simple amount of cargo is unsuitible for large transfer stations
15:51:59  <andythenorth> hmm
15:52:04  <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. a high-producing factory, or the city's main station
15:52:23  <andythenorth> if you can figure it out...let me know :)
15:52:26  <andythenorth> I'm open to suggestions
15:52:40  <Eddi|zuHause> well, imho planetmaker had the right idea there
15:52:41  <andythenorth> has anyone else tried the modified FIRS algorithm?
15:52:52  <Eddi|zuHause> "just" needs implementation
15:53:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't looked at it, but it can't be more than 20loc
15:54:12  <Eddi|zuHause> that is, modifying the existing off-map station statistic storage, adding saveload code, and adding newgrf-export code
15:55:18  <Eddi|zuHause> where the latter needs some consideration whether to stuff it into "extra callback info" or provide some new variable
15:56:36  *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@] has joined #openttd
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15:58:26  <swissfan91> Is it possible to have town buildings on sloped tiles? Or do they always just take foundations to be a flat tile?
15:58:50  <Yexo> you can disable foundations for them
16:00:12  <swissfan91> per house? Or just disable foundations for the whole set?
16:00:28  <Yexo> per house
16:00:42  <Yexo> and even more precise than that if you want to, it's a callback
16:01:52  <swissfan91> more precise? how so?
16:02:32  <Yexo> in 1930 no foundations, from 1940 on it has foundations except when it's very close to the city center <- something like that if you wanted to
16:03:10  *** TWerkhoven2[l] [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:03:35  <swissfan91> but surely if I have drawn the house on a flat tile, it must have foundations?
16:03:54  <Eddi|zuHause> the game doesn't know how you've drawn it
16:04:18  <Eddi|zuHause> it'll happily draw whatever sprite you give it.
16:04:20  <Yexo> if it must have foundations make sure to write your newgrf in a way that tells openttd that your house needs foundations
16:04:53  <swissfan91> I see, ok.
16:15:04  <peter1138> <Invoice><Invoice_No>xxx</Invoice_No><Customer_No>yyy</Customer_No>No Match</Invoice>
16:15:17  <Eddi|zuHause> IKS EMM ELL!
16:15:27  <peter1138> ^ using .net's xml stuff, how do i get "No Match" out of that? :S
16:15:33  <peter1138> regexes don't count
16:16:12  <Eddi|zuHause> invoice.text=="no match"?
16:16:30  <Eddi|zuHause> something along those lines, i guess...
16:17:01  <peter1138> no, that returns "xxxyyyNo Match"
16:17:50  <SpComb> go punch the person who wrote it
16:18:00  <peter1138> that was my immediate reaction
16:18:00  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, there must be some way to strip all sub-elements
16:19:00  <andythenorth> for i in Invoice, if I is not childnode?
16:19:08  <andythenorth> return i
16:22:15  <peter1138> #text
16:35:11  <TrueBrain> lol @ XML, funny people ... :)
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16:59:36  <frosch123> wow... my webmail provider offers me to increase the storage space from 12MB to 500MB... i just have to install some software
17:04:52  <peter1138> erm... right
17:05:23  <Eddi|zuHause> "no. that is no rootkit. that is... diagnosis software!!"
17:06:52  <frosch123> there is a bug in today's xkcd
17:07:37  <peter1138> yeah, "gray"
17:08:18  <Prof_Frink> Also, what's wrong with just BODMAS?
17:08:50  <appe>
17:08:50  *** swissfan91 [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
17:09:15  <peter1138> BODMAS?
17:09:27  <peter1138> ah
17:09:30  <Prof_Frink> First one.
17:09:53  <peter1138> americans don't like to call them brackets, i think
17:10:10  <Prof_Frink> Of course, you do have to say brackets and square brackets, not parenthetheesesetheses.
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17:21:52  <appe> a parenthesis is a "(", even in america?
17:25:42  <Alberth> after december 21, who knows?  it looks like an attempt to pirate the "(" letter to me :p
17:28:41  <Prof_Frink> Arr.
17:29:01  <frosch123> sopa is postponed
17:29:07  <frosch123> they will try again on valentines day
17:29:32  <frosch123> they must find some day when noone is looking
17:35:48  <fjb|tab> frosch123: I got that strange offer from too.
17:35:56  <fjb|tab>
17:36:47  <frosch123> call the hotline and ask why you cannot execute the binary?
17:36:49  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23594 /trunk/src/ (industrytype.h vehicle_base.h): -Codechange: follow coding style with multi line comments
17:37:56  <fjb|tab> Did you see what they are charging? I was wondering if that was s fske mail.
17:38:48  <frosch123> their "mailcheck" tool is some stupid browser plugin which displays their ugly emoticons depending on if you have mail or not
17:38:56  <frosch123> the other features are undocumented
17:40:54  <fjb|tab> And why should I install that? I'm using a proper email client any way.
17:41:07  <frosch123> so am i :)
17:43:04  <fjb|tab> Very strange...
17:44:00  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23595 /trunk/src/ (42 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: add comma after last enum to get a more uniform coding style
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17:45:23  <peter1138> the lure of emoticons appears to work for lots of people :(
17:46:00  <appe> what do you mean?
17:46:05  <frosch123> well, there are normal emoticons, and there are damn-ugly ones
17:46:33  <Alberth> sure, you'd be surprised how much stuff people are prepared to do just to get something 'free'
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18:13:53  <swissfan91> has anyone tried using the DACH train set?
18:14:52  <V453000> o/
18:16:08  <swissfan91> I am having a real issue with the SBB 'lok2000' and push/pull - a bug to do with this loco is named in the readme, I was wondering if anyone else had any trouble?
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18:26:39  <Terkhen> hello
18:27:28  <swissfan91> hello Terkhen
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18:33:34  <Wolf01> o/
18:35:21  <Terkhen> hi Wolf01
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18:42:09  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23596 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
18:42:09  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:42:09  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by Wowanxm
18:42:09  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne
18:42:09  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
18:42:10  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
18:42:10  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
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18:51:47  <Wolf01> it's impressive how the number of visitors of my site is raised from 4/w to 24/w
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18:54:37  <TrueBrain> 4 per window?
18:54:45  <TrueBrain> 4 per whale?
18:54:48  <Wolf01> wombat
18:54:53  <TrueBrain> 4 per ... hmm .. I can't make anything out of the w :P
18:55:08  <TrueBrain> the animal?
18:55:11  <Zuu> world?
18:55:42  <Wolf01> 24/world may me really correct
18:55:47  <Wolf01> *be
18:56:03  <TrueBrain> still no clue how that related to number of visitors, but meh :)
18:56:17  <fjb|tab> 24/Wolf01
18:56:47  <Rubidium> so it's 48/f ;)
18:58:16  <Wolf01> f?
18:58:47  <Rubidium> oh come on... you don't know furlong per fortight?
18:59:25  <Wolf01> ahah
19:01:18  <Wolf01> I remember I heared furlong once in a horse race
19:16:48  <peter1138> heard :D
19:17:21  <Belugas> 48f, f48... that's quite closed
19:17:44  <appe>
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19:31:31  <Wolf01> appe +1
19:33:02  <Wolf01> thank you peter1138, I have always problems with R and E keys :P
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20:40:25  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23597 /trunk/src/script/ (3 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: fix up squirrel export script a bit
20:40:34  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23598 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix: harden FormatString against abuse
20:40:42  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23599 /trunk/src/window_type.h: -Codechange: document WC_ entries, and reoder a bit
20:42:12  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23600 /trunk/src/ (55 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: link WC+number to a Widget, and the Widget to a Window class
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20:46:16  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23601 /trunk/src/ (19 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: fix the conflict in window number
20:46:35  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23602 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_type.h company_type.h): -Add: support for DEITY commands, commands where no real company was involved in (Rubidium)
20:46:39  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23603 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Add: support for control commands in strings, in both network and safe/load (Rubidium)
20:46:53  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23604 /trunk/ (35 files in 8 dirs): -Add: initial support for GameScripts
20:50:32  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23605 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 4 dirs): -Add: GAME_DIR and CONTENT_TYPE_GAME, and read gamescript from that directory
20:50:37  *** eQualizer [] has joined #openttd
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20:51:51  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23606 /trunk/ (18 files in 4 dirs): -Add: GameScanner, to auto-detect game scripts, and wire it in the console
20:52:02  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23607 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 5 dirs): -Add: wire GameScript in all the GUIs
20:52:24  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23608 /trunk/src/lang/ (54 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: remove now unused strings from all other languages too
20:52:37  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23609 /trunk/ (11 files in 5 dirs): -Add: save/load all GameScript related material
20:52:41  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23610 /trunk/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Add: Doxygen files for NoGo API (Yexo)
20:52:45  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23611 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 4 dirs): -Add: run the begin of the script already while generating, and don't sleep on DoCommand while doing so
20:52:54  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23612 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 6 dirs): -Add: allow importing libraries in the same way as AI does, only with GS prefix (and in game/library)
20:53:04  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23613 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Add: allow IsDeveloperOnly in info.nut, to indicate if you can select this GS via the GUI (optional, defaults to false)
20:53:18  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23614 /trunk/src/ (41 files in 3 dirs): -Add: more API functions exposed to NoGo (part 1)
20:53:26  <Zuu> :-)
20:53:30  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23615 /trunk/src/ (49 files in 4 dirs): -Add: more API functions exposed to NoGo (part 2)
20:53:38  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23616 /trunk/src/script/api/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Add: ScriptGameSettings::SetValue, to set gamesettings (GameScript only)
20:53:57  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23617 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Add: ScriptTown::ExpandTown, to grow a town (GameScript only)
20:54:12  <Zuu> My RSS reader is going to overflow :-)
20:54:55  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23618 /trunk/ (14 files in 9 dirs): -Add: ScriptGame::Pause, ScriptGame::Unpause, and ScriptGame::GetLandscape (GameScript only)
20:55:07  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23619 /trunk/src/script/api/ (game/game_date.hpp.sq script_date.cpp script_date.hpp): -Add: ScriptDate::GetSystemTime, to get the seconds since 1 Jan 1970 of the real system (GameScript only)
20:55:14  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23620 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Add: ScriptTown::SetCargoGoal and ScriptTown::SetGrowthRate (GameScript only)
20:55:24  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23621 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): -Add: allow manipulation of signs via GameScripts
20:55:32  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23622 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 4 dirs): -Add: a set of events to trigger in a GameScript
20:56:29  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23623 /trunk/ (27 files in 10 dirs): -Add: allow bi-directional communication with the AdminPort and GameScript
20:56:35  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23624 /trunk/src/script/api/ (9 files in 2 dirs): -Add: ScriptVehicle/ScriptStation/ScriptSign::GetOwner, to get the owner of those objects (GameScript only)
20:56:43  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23625 /trunk/ (10 files in 6 dirs): -Add: ScriptViewport::ScrollTo, for SinglePlayer only (GameScript only)
20:56:51  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23626 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 4 dirs): -Add: ScriptTown::SetText, which adds custom text to the Town GUI
20:57:09  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23627 /trunk/ (14 files in 8 dirs): -Add: ScriptNews::Create, to create custom news messages (GameScript only)
20:57:24  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23628 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Add: ScriptSubsidy::Create, to create subsidies (GameScript only)
20:58:31  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23629 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 3 dirs): -Add: allow ScriptRoad::BuildRoad, ScriptBridge::BuildBridge (for roads) and ScriptTunnel:BuildTunnel (for roads) to work for GameScript
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20:59:13  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23630 /trunk/ (29 files in 11 dirs): -Add: a Goal GUI to show your current goals
21:00:35  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
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21:01:09  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23631 /trunk/ (20 files in 8 dirs): -Add: ScriptWindow, to manipulate windows on the client (GameScript only)
21:01:21  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23632 /trunk/ (46 files in 9 dirs): -Add: GSCompanyMode, to change company in GameScripts
21:01:34  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23633 /trunk/src/script/api/ (37 files in 2 dirs): -Add: allow most build commands from GameScript given a CompanyMode is active in that scope
21:01:42  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23634 /trunk/ (13 files in 6 dirs): -Add: support language files for GameScript (Rubidium)
21:01:46  <Zuu> andythenorth: Welcome to the commit spere :-)
21:01:55  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23635 /trunk/ (13 files in 8 dirs): -Add: introduce GSText, to allow translating GameScript text, even over network
21:02:03  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23636 /trunk/src/ (30 files in 6 dirs): -Add: introduce ScriptText in parameters where it can be used
21:02:06  <Wolf01> zuu, combobreaker :P
21:02:07  <andythenorth> nice to be here
21:02:37  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23637 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Change: bump the savegame, to store all the new goodies
21:02:57  <Wolf01> 15MB more for each save
21:03:05  * TrueBrain breaths
21:03:44  <TrueBrain> @calc 23637 - 23597
21:03:44  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 40
21:04:39  <Zuu> Did you write all those commit messages by hand or were they simply copied from hg?
21:05:28  <TrueBrain> hg patch <patch>
21:05:29  <TrueBrain> hg push
21:05:31  <TrueBrain> :)
21:06:07  <Zuu> So hg can push to svn. That I didn't know
21:06:16  <TrueBrain> with an extension, it can
21:06:21  <TrueBrain> works rather well, as you can see :P
21:06:25  *** Karth [] has joined #openttd
21:08:09  <Karth> Hey, don't suppose I could get some help getting Openttd 1.1.4 going on Debian? it starts fine, but the graphics are rather garbled. It works fine on the same pc in windows.
21:08:29  <frosch123> depends what you consider "garbled"
21:08:56  <frosch123> wrong colours? completely wrong graphics?
21:08:57  <Karth> sprites covering each other up, all purple, and the menus near unnavigatable
21:09:14  <frosch123> start with -b 32bpp-optimized
21:09:28  <Karth> aighty, 1 minute
21:09:36  <TrueBrain> not 32bpp-anim frosch123? :)
21:09:40  <frosch123> if that works, put "blitter = 32bpp-optimized" into ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg
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21:10:23  <Karth> ah very nice, that works
21:10:40  <frosch123> Karth: your video driver does not support 8bpp modes then :)
21:11:11  <Karth> my video card is from 1998, so thats kinda wierd
21:11:17  <Karth> ah well
21:11:47  <frosch123> oh, time to run my updateall script
21:12:01  <frosch123> on how many comflicts will it stop?
21:12:01  <TrueBrain> Zuu: in case you missed it, I made WC_ values (WindowClass) + WindowNumber unique, and pointing to a single widget enum
21:12:12  <TrueBrain> so you can now highlight the right road toolbar in the right way etc :)
21:12:26  <TrueBrain> frosch123: after the first 5 commits of mine, it hsould 'just work' :P
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21:13:57  <frosch123> well, recently i mostly encounter that it was a stupid idea of svn to version directories
21:13:58  <Zuu> TrueBrain: There can be more than one road toolbar? As far as I've understood all road/rail etc. toolbars share the same class, but I would not expect them to use different window numbers, just unique widget IDs.
21:14:21  <frosch123> (encountering as in both in ottd and at work)
21:14:49  <TrueBrain> Zuu: that is what I tried to say :)
21:14:57  <TrueBrain> they use the same WC_, but their window number is now unique
21:15:00  <TrueBrain> and documented
21:15:07  <TrueBrain> (not their widget id, their window number btw ;))
21:15:24  <Zuu> Okay, good to hear that the window number is documented. :-)
21:15:56  <Zuu> Now that NoGo is in trunk, does the same doc URL apply or will there be a different one?
21:16:17  <TrueBrain> I guess I have to make ...
21:17:24  <Zuu> Another task after merging with trunk is to point the entry to trunk. ... but don't hurry if you feel overwhelmed. :-)
21:17:37  <TrueBrain> not going to happen for another 22 hours :)
21:17:39  <TrueBrain> see forum ;)
21:18:27  <Zuu> Oh yea, sure I just forgot that we have to wait 22 hours for the next nightly to build.
21:19:01  <Alberth> plenty of time to learn building it from source :p
21:19:26  <Karth> Well thanks for the help getting the game going, now it seems I need to figure out how to fix alsa again :(
21:20:11  <Alberth> Karth: it is very possible to play without sounds, I managed that for many years :)
21:20:54  <Karth> I know, but whats the fun in that :P besides its system wide
21:21:49  <Zuu> Alberth: Fortutately I already know how to build from source. I just have to pull + update hg, regenerate the project files and compile. Not too hard really :-)
21:24:43  <Rubidium> regenerate project files?
21:25:09  <Terkhen> urgh, I hated alsa/oss/whatever
21:25:32  <Terkhen> that was the worst part of setting up a linux partition for me
21:25:36  <Zuu> Because sometimes building doesn't work when they miss a new file.
21:25:50  <Terkhen> s/worst part/only part that did not go smoothly/
21:26:15  * Zuu realized that he got 32 new strings to translate
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21:36:49  <Terkhen> you must have forgotten about translating for a long time :)
21:39:05  <Zuu> well, I translated a string yesterday, my language just happen to get cut away from most log messages.
21:39:29  <Terkhen> :P
21:39:35  <Zuu> Actually, I should usually wait a day or two after most other languages translating in order to get noticed :-)
21:39:56  <Rubidium> Zuu: CIA is just lame
21:40:01  * Terkhen just forgets unless he is highlighted
21:40:19  <Terkhen> I have the RSS feed but that usually takes days to come for some reason
21:41:21  <Zuu> Hmm, did that email about traslation cause WT3.0 to act wierd? It was slow and now I can't pull up a list of all recent translations to review them for consistency.
21:41:46  <Zuu> Ah good, waiting a while solved it. :-)
21:41:52  <Rubidium> the CF is also running
21:41:57  <Rubidium> so the server might be a bit sluggish
21:42:27  <TrueBrain> the server is not even 25% streshed
21:54:09  <Zuu> Could alse be because there was two of us translating Swedish at the same time.
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21:59:29  <Terkhen> oooh, OpenTTD displays a message about "your language has a lazy translator"
22:00:29  <Zuu> Yep, I've seen that one lately in the NoGo branch :-)
22:00:43  <Terkhen> urgh, I'm the translator of that message
22:00:50  <Terkhen> so I translated it and forgot about the feature
22:00:53  <Zuu> I think it has been there for a year or so.
22:01:59  <Zuu> I think it is a good invention. Whenever a popular language will lose its translators, people are going to notice.
22:02:46  <Terkhen> yes :)
22:03:16  <Zuu> And when they become translators they will find out whom to blame :-)
22:03:19  <Rubidium> Zuu: you should change the threshold to be 0, then every time a string is missing you see that ;)
22:03:32  <V453000> :D your language has a lazy translator :D
22:05:14  <Zuu> Hmm, now that I looked up the string, I'm slightly dissapointed that it doesn't say "lazy translator" :-)
22:05:35  <Terkhen> it does not actually say it, but the implications of what it says are quite clear
22:06:24  <frosch123> Terkhen: i actually wonder whether some translator would put some strong words into that message :p
22:06:26  <Zuu> Yep
22:06:41  <Terkhen> :D
22:07:21  <Terkhen> I forgot about translating the message so I guess that I dismissed it thinking "I'm so efficient that I'll never see this"
22:07:55  * Zuu suggests that Terkhen gets NoGo 1.5 :-)
22:07:58  <Terkhen> wishful thinking :P
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22:16:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> <frosch123> they must find some day when noone is looking <-- ask the CIA/NSA/MPAA whether they have a "terrorist" attack planned which they can hijack?
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22:19:18  <Terkhen> there we go, 43 strings pending for spanish
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22:51:42  <Terkhen> good night
22:59:06  <Karth> Hmm, well got my system's sound working, including timidity. Any idea why OpenTTD's music doesn't work? OS is Debian Squeeze.
23:00:55  <glx> sound set installed ?
23:01:20  <glx> well music set :)
23:01:45  <Karth> yep, installed the original GMs
23:02:16  <glx> selected in options ?
23:02:36  <Karth> yep, when I open the midi player it just shoots through them
23:02:55  <Zuu> Isn't there an issue with the german original CD as well or do I remember wrong?
23:03:09  <glx> usually means it doesn't find the files
23:03:19  <glx> where are they ?
23:04:18  <Karth> they are in /usr/share/games/openttd/gm
23:05:10  <Yexo> did you try downloading and using openmsx?
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23:05:24  <Karth> I have not, let me try that
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23:06:24  <Karth> same problem with them
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23:10:43  <Eddi|zuHause> tried getting some debug output?
23:12:40  <Karth> no I haven't, how do I set it to debug?
23:12:41  <Zuu> Eg, do you have a midi player active in your Linux system?
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23:13:02  <Karth> I've played a midi file using timidity in the terminal
23:13:07  <Karth> so I know it works
23:13:54  <Zuu> IIRC OpenTTD have a command line option to tell which midi driver to use. Maybe that can give you some luck?
23:16:25  <Karth> hmm, let me take a look at something
23:18:07  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:23:49  <Karth> ok got debug going, it keeps repeating "ALSA lib pcm.c:7223:(snd_pcm_recover) underrun occoured
23:28:34  <glx> that's sound related, not music
23:29:03  <Karth> hmm, well sound works fine, it doesn't tell me anything else at debug 1
23:30:14  <glx> hmm maybe you could try to play a midi file in the terminal while openttd is running
23:30:40  <glx> (just to check something)
23:32:31  <Karth> sure
23:33:25  <Karth> I can't play my midi file now
23:33:54  <glx> so it's an alsa problem
23:34:42  <Karth> says cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
23:34:49  <Karth> hmm, let me look into this
23:35:07  <peter1138> unable to play midi on linux usually means no suitable synth is installed/setup/etc/
23:35:28  <Karth> I can play midi when openttd is closed
23:35:33  <Karth> it worked when I closed openttd
23:36:24  <peter1138> probably something is accessing the sound hw device directly, bypassing software mixing
23:37:07  <glx> or timidity not using alsa
23:37:29  <Karth> how would I know if timidity is using alsa?
23:38:09  <Karth> considering my sound took blacklisting of drivers to get working in alsa
23:39:10  <glx> timidity -iA -Os should work
23:40:54  <Karth> some info there, but it says ALSA pcm 'default' can't set hw_params and at the bottom says couldn't open ALSA pcm device (`s')
23:41:06  <Karth> lots of information inbetween
23:41:50  <Karth> also, alsa's mixer works fine on it
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