Log for #openttd on 30th September 2012:
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00:27:37  <Zuu> Hmm, this quote thingy for filters make it impossible to filter on things like "can't"
00:27:47  <Zuu> it's .. etc.
00:28:11  <Zuu> Perhaps it should only use double quotes.
00:34:33  <planetmaker> Zuu, things like sed or gdl and idl use a scheme where the first quote is the quote character an then the other can be quoted (" and ')
00:35:08  <planetmaker> of course that doesn't make any patch easier ;-)
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01:01:57  <dada_> anyone know if there's a shortcut key for keeping the "go to" command active even after you click on a station? for faster order adding?
01:03:22  <Supercheese> yes, that's an advanced setting
01:03:27  <Supercheese> "enable quick creation of vehicle orders"
01:03:32  <dada_> ohh neat
01:04:17  <dada_> thanks, this is perfect
01:04:29  <Supercheese> yer welcome :)
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03:04:48  <supermop> hi
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04:37:52  <hmmwhatsthisdo> I'm having a problem where my trains (filled with coal) aren't unloading at a power plant. Is there something that could be causing this?
04:38:24  <Supercheese> Does the station accept coal?
04:38:29  <hmmwhatsthisdo> Yes.
04:38:40  <hmmwhatsthisdo> It only seems to be a certain portion of the trains
04:38:46  <hmmwhatsthisdo> (which are using shared orders)
04:38:54  <Supercheese> Are all the wagons filled with coal?
04:38:59  <hmmwhatsthisdo> Yup.
04:39:00  <Supercheese> oh nevermind
04:39:09  <Supercheese> didn't interpret that right :P
04:39:14  <Supercheese> let's see
04:39:25  <hmmwhatsthisdo> It's on a 7x7 station with platforms linked by "smart" signals
04:39:36  <Supercheese> all the same station though, right?
04:39:36  <hmmwhatsthisdo> the train slows down, stops, then starts right back up again
04:39:41  <hmmwhatsthisdo> yup
04:40:02  <hmmwhatsthisdo> They're also all set to "unload all" at that station
04:40:09  <Supercheese> try changing to "unload if accepted"
04:40:12  <Supercheese> rather than unload all
04:40:22  <Supercheese> (just "unclick" unload all)
04:42:01  <hmmwhatsthisdo> It seems like it might be it's overriding the orders to unload at the station with orders to go for maintenance
04:42:16  <hmmwhatsthisdo> ...depots aren't supposed to be put after stations are they?
04:42:17  <Supercheese> I don't use maintenance orders myself
04:42:24  <Supercheese> I have breakdowns disabled
04:42:34  <hmmwhatsthisdo> isn't that cheating?
04:42:46  <Supercheese> You could do it in regular TTD, so... no?
04:42:56  <hmmwhatsthisdo> TIL something.
04:46:51  <hmmwhatsthisdo> mmk, it does appear that they were skipping the station because they were breaking down in it or before it, then going in for maintenance
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05:25:43  <Supercheese> Hey andy, joining with WSF set I see, no?
05:26:11  <Supercheese> or at least receiving sprites
05:30:25  <andythenorth> yup
05:30:38  <Supercheese> :D
05:40:36  <andythenorth> FISH 2 Alpha updated on bananas
05:40:56  <supermop> fish 2?
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05:43:10  <Supercheese> only the best ship set in OTTD by a large margin :)
05:43:18  <Supercheese> (IMNSHO)
05:43:43  <supermop> i didn't know there was a 2
05:43:57  <Supercheese> you need a (very) recent nightly to download it
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06:58:48  <Supercheese> good night
06:59:07  <Supercheese> Tomorrow, T-minus 20 seconds
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08:08:06  <Terkhen> good morning
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08:20:04  <Wolf01> mornink
08:24:16  <andythenorth> hi Terkhen
08:24:19  <andythenorth> Wold:
08:24:22  <andythenorth> oops :P
08:24:28  <andythenorth> hi Wolf01 :)
08:26:50  <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 :)
08:26:54  <Terkhen> and andythenorth :P
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08:45:14  <andythenorth> lo Alberth and Zuu
08:45:24  <Alberth> moin andy and Zuu :)
08:45:35  <andythenorth> Terkhen: are you working on new scenario format? o_O
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08:51:20  <LordAro> moin Zuu, Alberth and andy :)
08:56:06  <andythenorth> Zuu: Alberth Terkhen et al would you play MP game script later?
08:56:11  <andythenorth> test new FISH etc
08:57:10  * andythenorth will bbl
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09:16:43  <planetmaker> moin
09:16:55  <planetmaker> Alberth, LongVehicles was written by george. He's still around
09:17:16  <Alberth> ok, maybe it gets fixed then.
09:17:37  <planetmaker> iirc long vehicles 5 is on hold due to missing openttd features, though
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09:23:09  <andythenorth_>  Mmm cheese
09:29:35  <Terkhen> andythenorth_: I have been working on the scenario format, yes
09:29:47  <andythenorth_> :)
09:29:53  <Terkhen> there are still a long list of stuff to code, though
09:30:42  <Terkhen> soon I'm leaving to do some tourism, I don't know when I'll be back but I'll probably be available for playing this evening
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09:34:59  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but var 61/62 has been implemented for a while now
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09:41:26  <Terkhen> bbl
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09:49:45  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, if that's what was missing, then it's even better and I'm happy to be wrong about the "missing longvehicles5" :-)
09:50:56  <Rubidium> what's missing from OpenTTD is support for negative "shorten vehicle" factors
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09:53:48  <planetmaker> too bad. Not sure that that is a good addition, though
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10:32:22  * andythenorth ponders
10:32:38  <andythenorth> there is no way to make FIRS build fishing harbours near lighthouses
10:32:43  <andythenorth> but it would be neat :P
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11:33:41  <andythenorth> btw /me is again hiring developers
11:33:59  <andythenorth> specifically, I want to find a bi-lingual programmer for a translation project
11:34:14  <andythenorth> so far I have 1 CV from a spanish guy :)
11:35:07  <andythenorth> it's not Terkhen ;)
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11:49:14  <Zuu> Playing against your own AI is interesting. I gave it a head start to fill the map, and then tried to compeete against it. It give the same sort of challenge as joining late on a MP server and trying to fit in your tracks in the mess. :-)
11:51:03  <planetmaker> :-)
11:51:11  <planetmaker> Compete on the same routes ;-)
11:54:24  <Zuu> The hard part about playing against an AI is that you cannot leave a secondary industry with high production without servicing it yourself directly. Otherwise, the AI is there quick and take the secondary cargo and profit from it.
11:55:56  <Zuu> If you do bring the secondary cargo from start, you can probably keep it for yourself if the service is good. At least CluelessPlus is mainly looking at the difference between produced cargo and transported cargo. If that gap is large enough, it uses the industry, otherwise not.
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11:57:03  <planetmaker> :-) yup. But that's fair enough, imho
11:57:10  <Zuu> yep
11:57:44  <Zuu> I'm sure there are some AIs that will try to compete on well serviced industries too if they are having a very high production.
11:57:46  <planetmaker> he. I'm actually tempted to have an AI run on the coop stable server. Just for the fun ;-)
11:58:11  <planetmaker> oh, sure there are such AIs. But might not be their best option
11:58:12  <Zuu> You could install a few and then make it select a random AI.
11:58:55  <planetmaker> yes... I fear only that our audience won't appreciate that
11:58:59  <planetmaker> any AI that is
11:59:34  <Zuu> Some AIs can be configured to not use "steal" industries.
11:59:56  <Zuu> s/use //
12:00:41  <Zuu> you could also lower the speed of the AI by reducing the AI construction speed as well as the number of opcodes that it has per tick
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12:03:30  <Zuu> Or get IdleMore and noone will complain on the AI :-p
12:04:18  <planetmaker> hehe :-) But that's a good reminder about those options. I might sneakily give it a try maybe somewhen
12:10:43  <planetmaker> hm... with the admin port... we could run a game for X years... and read out game data after that time... meh, still no good usecase for the admin port around :-(
12:10:46  <planetmaker> very sad
12:11:07  <planetmaker> s/use case/useable application/
12:18:35  <LordAro> poke dih3dral :P
12:20:16  <planetmaker> hehe yes
12:22:12  * planetmaker installes twisted, though
12:22:15  <planetmaker> -e
12:23:44  <Alberth> nice, Twisted
12:24:32  <planetmaker> you got experience with it, Alberth ?
12:25:04  <Alberth> I have touched the stuff, yes
12:25:53  <LordAro> planetmaker: why do you want it?
12:25:57  <Alberth> at least if you talk about Twisted from :)
12:26:46  <Alberth> LordAro: for your program, it's a framework for writing asynchronous networked programs
12:27:16  <Alberth> it does many network protocols out of the box
12:27:36  <LordAro> sounds fun
12:27:40  <planetmaker> that's why I want it. Or rather look at it
12:27:49  <Alberth> programming it is however somewhat.... twisted
12:27:50  <planetmaker> It's python
12:28:06  <LordAro> shame it's written in python, or i may have been able to use it myself for my own projects...
12:28:13  <planetmaker> (that was no answer to albert's last statement) ;-)
12:28:19  <Alberth> but that's mainly due to working with asynchronous events
12:29:00  * LordAro -> lunch. Alberth can explain 'my own projects' if planetmaker really wants t o know ;) :P
12:29:03  <Alberth> LordAro: the ideas that they use are very general
12:29:46  <Alberth> the dear Lord believes there are not enough chat programs in the world :p
12:30:23  <planetmaker> oh, really?
12:30:56  <planetmaker> I've seen enough of them to conclude for every chat problem exists a solution ;-)
12:31:13  <Alberth> yep, but it's a nice excuse to do some network programming :)
12:31:30  <planetmaker> openttd admin port would be a better one :-P
12:31:37  <planetmaker> or openttd web config ;-)
12:31:53  <planetmaker> or even a combination of both :-P
12:32:02  <Alberth> the main problem with chat is that it is used too much, instead of a sane protocol
12:33:52  <Alberth> you flatten data to arbitrary text, and at the other end try to make sense of it by parsing a text stream, instead of using something designed for passing information from A to B, like xmpp or so :)
12:34:35  <Alberth> but enough of that, why do you want Twisted?
12:35:48  <planetmaker> no particular reason except that it seemed to me means to marry openttd admin port to irc and web interface
12:36:13  <planetmaker> not that I have done *anything* in that respect so far except toy around little with twisted
12:36:39  <planetmaker> nor actually likely that I'll get something done in any timeframe worth quoting ;-)
12:38:02  <Alberth> I fully agree it is the right solution to the network problem you describe
12:38:03  <planetmaker> and next to dih's java implementation of an openttd admin port library there's xaroth's bit dated python implementation for it. So either of those two languages would lend itself to such attempt
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12:38:50  <Alberth> Oh, 'networking' is generic enough to work in almost any language
12:38:56  <planetmaker> :-)
12:39:04  <planetmaker> yes, but I'm lazy ;-)
12:39:16  <Alberth> (as long as you don't try functional and declarative languages too much :) )
12:39:33  <planetmaker> and a proof-of-concept IRC connection was half a screen of code
12:39:56  <planetmaker> same with a web server
12:40:42  <planetmaker> twisted seemed well documented to me, too with loads of examples. Which... makes it somewhat easier starting point
12:40:47  <Alberth> usually the code does almost nothing, the big problem is managing the state of everything, which works nicely with Twisted as it gets distributed
12:41:15  <Alberth> for a certain value of 'nice' that you get with asynchronously executing code :p
12:41:24  <planetmaker> :-)
12:41:40  <planetmaker> but I think the asynchronous execution is actually what I want in this case
12:42:10  <planetmaker> to me it seems like a problem with three sub-problems which just communicate a few things with eachother
12:42:32  <Alberth> you definitely want asynchronous execution
12:42:48  <andythenorth> I want asychnronous pixel drawing
12:42:56  <andythenorth> and an MP game :P
12:43:14  <Alberth> while Twisted is a good answer, it is to me also horrible enough to avoid it like the plague
12:43:23  <planetmaker> he :D
12:43:28  <planetmaker> what would you choose, Alberth ?
12:43:30  <Alberth> so I'd write a custom async program instead I think
12:43:35  <planetmaker> ah
12:44:08  <andythenorth> iirc there are some async python packages
12:44:17  <andythenorth> without requiring the framework
12:44:24  <Alberth> async stuff in the stdlibrary are toys
12:46:17  <andythenorth> who wants to set the buy menu order for me in FISH 2?
12:46:24  <andythenorth> I'm guessing no-one :P
12:46:30  * andythenorth can't get the staff :P
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12:48:47  * Alberth digs up an old chat-log  planetmaker:
12:51:49  <Alberth> a job in your case would be a connection to some port
12:52:03  <planetmaker> hm :-) ty
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12:53:32  <Alberth> Twisted goes further in also making other things asynchronous, such as DB access, and of course it does the various protocols out of the box
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12:54:36  <Alberth> pehaps I hate Twisted too much :p
12:54:58  <planetmaker> sounds like traumatic experiences in that field ;-)
12:55:13  <Alberth> andythenorth: ordered by year of introduction?
12:56:12  <Alberth> planetmaker: nah, just terribly fear for the complexity of async things :)
12:57:48  <planetmaker> he, yeah :-) It's... complex
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13:05:05  <andythenorth> Alberth: fortunately ottd already has sort by year of introduction ;)
13:05:18  <andythenorth> it's the default sort I should fix :P
13:05:21  * andythenorth -> nml docs
13:06:07  <Alberth> :)
13:06:33  <Alberth> can you control that?
13:06:47  <andythenorth> yes
13:06:48  <andythenorth> oh
13:06:56  <andythenorth> it's been encoded rather neatly in nml :P
13:07:05  <andythenorth> it's just a list :P
13:07:07  <andythenorth> where's the fun in that?
13:07:19  <planetmaker> hehe
13:07:52  <andythenorth> I was going to make a list, then for each vehicle find previous vehicle, then encode that in action 0 prop in templated nml :|
13:07:57  <andythenorth> this is too easy :P
13:08:08  <andythenorth> all I have to do is use an ordered folder in my CMS
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13:13:33  <Alberth> coding is too easy, switch back to nfo
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13:27:36  <Jake> Is there a "no duplicate AIs" setting I haven't found? Because I think we need one. Multiple instances of StreetTraffic when you're running large numbers of road vehicles is a whole bunch of absolutely no fun at all.
13:28:09  <Alberth> limit the number of AI players to 1 ?
13:28:28  <Alberth> or manually set which AI to use for each opponent
13:29:22  <Jake> Point. I do prefer a little bit of competition, though.
13:30:25  <planetmaker> hand-configure which AI to use
13:32:03  <Jake> That'd work, but I like to be surprised occasionally by the competition. Eh, maybe I just need to figure out why my Internet connection drops out every twenty minutes or so.
13:32:57  <Jake> Also, what d'you guys reckon to the new scenario I posted?
13:38:09  <Zuu> I beleive StreetTraffic doesn't set the "don't use as random AI" flag. If you uninstall it and get TownCars instead, IIRC that AI have that flag set and will never be chosen by OpenTTD as random AI.
13:39:15  <Alberth> Jake: I hardly play OpenTTD, the last time I played a scenario is over ten years ago
13:39:27  <Zuu> Or you can add "	function UseAsRandomAI()  { return false; }
13:39:28  <Zuu> " to info.nut of street traffic if you want to ues it still.
13:39:44  <Jake> Brilliant. Thanks Zuu.
13:40:16  <Zuu> Move it from ./content_download/ai to ./ai and untar.
13:40:42  <Zuu> when it sits in ./ai, IIRC OpenTTD will not find it if it sits in a tar.
13:41:43  <Zuu> The reason for moving is that you shouldn't store files in content_download as OpenTTD may remove/overwrite thoses files at is choise.
13:42:13  <Zuu> s/is choise/it's choise/
13:42:34  <Zuu> or just "its"? ...
13:43:34  <Alberth> it's   is a short-hand for   it is
13:44:56  <Zuu> yep, and thus doesn't fit there
13:49:44  <planetmaker> s/choise/choice/ ;-)
13:50:44  <Zuu> meh :-D
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14:26:44  <andythenorth> ho ho
14:27:01  <andythenorth> my default 'sort on ID' is currently alphabetical order :P
14:27:28  <andythenorth> so I'll fix that.  Pax ships first in the list?
14:27:55  <planetmaker> sounds good
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14:42:11  <drac_boy> hi
14:52:39  <xQR> mh, there is GSTile.DemolishTile() which invokes the DoCommand CmdLandscapeClear
14:52:45  <xQR> but that can only be used to clear a single tile
14:52:57  <xQR> is there no GS function for CmdClearArea to clear a full area of tiles?
14:57:14  <andythenorth> planetmaker: GS game?
14:57:17  <andythenorth> MP?
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14:58:00  <planetmaker> not for me today
14:58:06  <andythenorth> nvm
14:58:19  <planetmaker> but I'll happily start the server
14:58:36  <andythenorth> any other players? :P
14:58:39  <andythenorth> Alberth: Zuu et al?
14:58:50  <andythenorth> I'm going to put a new fish alpha out
14:59:21  <Alberth> at 5 pm?
14:59:31  <Zuu> in 1 minute?
14:59:53  <Terkhen> hello
15:00:09  <planetmaker> r24530 running in #openttdcoop.nightly
15:00:22  <andythenorth> any time suits
15:00:30  <andythenorth> I will have to run out and do children things anyway
15:03:31  <andythenorth> NoCarGoal or SV?
15:06:21  <Alberth> I was about to prepare some dinner first
15:07:25  <andythenorth> well it takes time to prepare a game anyway
15:07:38  <andythenorth> we could play later
15:08:08  <andythenorth> anybody object to NoCarGoal 7 years, FIRS, NARS 2 ?
15:08:45  <Zuu> 7 years sounds like a good time frame.
15:09:01  <Alberth> the problem with FIRS imho is that you are the only person that knows the set
15:09:22  <Zuu> I prefer something easier than FIRS where you can easier spot connections. ^^
15:09:55  <andythenorth> smaller FIRS? :P
15:10:00  <andythenorth> one day maybe :P
15:10:16  <andythenorth> PBI + NoCarGoal would be very hard
15:10:44  <Zuu> OpenGFX+ Industries with parameters to use extra chains from other climate?
15:11:17  * drac_boy always likes anything freight-related to have HEQS as well
15:11:19  <drac_boy> but :)
15:12:16  <andythenorth> Zuu: do you want to make a map?
15:12:30  <andythenorth> I have toddlers to wrangle
15:12:34  <Alberth> lots of water :)
15:12:44  <andythenorth> long and thin is interesting
15:12:49  <drac_boy> oh yeah waters reminds me...
15:13:08  <drac_boy> is it still something thats going to be in progress yet or are there any grf that actually have sail/steam era ships?
15:13:10  <Zuu> I could. I've found some interesting random map gen settings at the moment. Though those doesn't involve lots of water but I could raise water level :-)
15:13:28  <andythenorth> drac_boy: early ships has them
15:13:32  <andythenorth> check the forum for it
15:13:43  <Terkhen> Zuu: I would like an extra chains game :P
15:13:44  <drac_boy> FISH is kinda too limited..theres only like two .. an expensive paddleship and a cheap but tiny oil-fired tugboat
15:13:46  <andythenorth> might be called 'sailing ships' or 'early ships', I forget :P
15:13:46  <drac_boy> hmm ok
15:14:20  <drac_boy> thanks anyway andythenorth
15:14:24  <andythenorth> it has windjammers and things
15:15:08  <Zuu> What is a good transport target? 30k? 50k?
15:15:53  <Alberth> no idea, 30K ?
15:22:02  <andythenorth> frosch has stats somewhere
15:22:33  <andythenorth> on devs.openttd
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15:24:04  <andythenorth> it's as though he's prescient
15:24:05  <Zuu> I have noted in the readme that 12500 on 7 years is possible and 25000 is a challenge for a team.
15:24:11  <andythenorth> or at least telepathic
15:24:21  <andythenorth> frosch123: where is your GS stats page?
15:25:02  <frosch123> <- that one?
15:25:36  <andythenorth> :)
15:25:43  <Zuu> Btw, what climate should we play?
15:25:47  <andythenorth> don't care
15:26:19  * Zuu probably picks artic or desert
15:27:13  <__ln__> it's silly one can't have all the climates on one map.
15:27:41  <Terkhen> as silly as "needs to rework the map implementation" :P
15:27:43  <Terkhen> toyland!
15:28:10  <frosch123> it's silly to reduce the climate choice to only graphics
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15:28:34  <andythenorth> it's silly to have Toyland :P
15:28:38  <__ln__> reduce in what sense?
15:28:40  <andythenorth> frosch123: +1 to that point
15:28:44  <andythenorth> firs got it wrong
15:28:46  <__ln__> toyland could be replaced with mars.
15:28:48  <Terkhen> true, toyland is meant to be silly
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15:28:56  <drac_boy> frosch123 yeah I agree beside winter != desert :)
15:29:05  <Terkhen> you should be able to replace anything with mars, all climates, whatever
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15:29:21  <drac_boy> terkhen or for non-frictious sets such as that unfinished unreleased (last I recall) brickland grf
15:29:23  <andythenorth> Zuu: don't miss FISH 2 in your game :)
15:29:47  <Zuu> FISH 2 from bananas is included
15:29:49  <frosch123> does it have reworked cost?
15:29:53  <frosch123> else don'T miss the basecost od
15:29:55  <frosch123> *m,od
15:30:06  <__ln__> anyway, on a big map it wouldn't be that silly if one end was desert and the other snow.
15:30:45  <frosch123> design a newterrain grf feature
15:30:48  <frosch123> with action 123 support
15:31:04  <andythenorth> frosch123: I reduced costs about 50% for FISH yesterday
15:31:10  <Zuu> NARS 2.03 from 2009?
15:31:24  <andythenorth> sounds fine
15:31:34  <andythenorth> start date?
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15:33:42  <Terkhen> 1975
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15:36:23  <Zuu> Hmm, NARS contain a GEAR cargo?
15:36:39  <Zuu> NoCargGoal picked the GEAR cargo when I tested to generate a map :-)
15:38:26  <Pinkbeast> It's locomotive regearing, and a constant source of bugs.
15:38:36  <planetmaker> yes, NARS is (the only?) NewGRF using the regearing cargo
15:39:01  <planetmaker> that cargo considered a deprecated exercise one. But... it's still there
15:39:19  <planetmaker> maybe you can specifically exclude that one cargo in NoCarGoal, Zuu?
15:39:27  <Terkhen> GS scripts should ignore cargos with cargo class CC_SPECIAL for stuff like choosing valid cargos to transport
15:39:40  <planetmaker> indeed
15:40:43  <Zuu> Sure, could make a such update, but for now I just hit "newgame" if it appears. Such things are hard to know of from reading the NoGo spec.
15:46:01  <Zuu> 1024x128?
15:46:06  <Zuu> (map size)
15:46:26  <Zuu> plenty of land and plenty of water
15:46:29  <andythenorth> ok
15:46:33  <andythenorth> long and thin is good
15:47:14  <andythenorth> Zuu: can you allow unlimited (or at least long) trains?
15:47:28  <andythenorth> sometimes I would like to run longer than than l5 :P
15:47:31  <andythenorth> more like l25 :P
15:48:01  <Zuu> hmm, oh, haven't looked through the adv. settings yet.
15:48:17  <andythenorth> takes so long to setup a game :)
15:49:21  <andythenorth> new lego train
15:49:29  <drac_boy> heh I always have station spread set for 17 ... don't know why :->
15:49:44  <drac_boy> trains usually ends up 2 to 14 tiles long anyhow
15:50:28  <Zuu> andythenorth: 125 tiles?
15:50:39  <andythenorth> 25 ;)
15:57:14  <Zuu> <-- game
15:57:52  <Zuu> It has trains up to 20 tiles, but station spread at 14. (I usually have it at 10, so it has already been raised by 40%)
15:59:46  <andythenorth> \o/
15:59:52  <andythenorth> hmm
16:00:03  <andythenorth> actually, does that mean trains too long for stations? :)
16:00:07  <andythenorth> nvm if so
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16:08:08  <andythenorth> xUSSR set looks nice
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16:10:19  <NGC3982> Evening, people and Andy.
16:11:15  <andythenorth> an old joke
16:11:22  <andythenorth> but a classic apparently
16:11:23  <andythenorth> :P
16:12:40  <NGC3982> ;).
16:12:51  <NGC3982> All is well with andythenorth?
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16:41:07  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone care to explain what the joke is?
16:42:41  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: item 2 here
16:43:05  <andythenorth> also
16:44:58  <NGC3982> Harr.
16:44:58  <NGC3982> :D
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17:21:33  <Eddi|zuHause> oh. i thought there was something more to it. then it's alright.
17:21:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i kinda forced one of those onto me once
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17:24:21  <Eddi|zuHause>
17:25:44  <planetmaker> lol, Eddi|zuHause
17:26:01  <planetmaker> you're soooooo mainstream grey mouse like ;-)
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17:45:20  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24562 trunk/src/lang/lithuanian.txt (2012-09-30 17:45:12 UTC)
17:45:21  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:22  <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 11 changes by RunisLabs
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19:18:19  <andythenorth> I have solved RVs
19:18:53  <planetmaker> wow. With sulfuric acid?
19:19:30  <planetmaker> (though not sure that whole RVs would solve in it)
19:19:48  <andythenorth> :P
19:20:37  <frosch123> maybe if you combine it with furnace temparatures
19:20:46  <andythenorth> seriously :P
19:20:59  <planetmaker> not furnance. but vulcanic will do
19:21:09  <andythenorth> instead of building truck, and then refitting trailer, body type etc
19:21:23  <andythenorth> and all the pain of that with autorefit
19:21:24  <frosch123> yeah, i guess vulcans solve about anything
19:21:31  <andythenorth> build the trailer, then refit to the truck with subtypes :P
19:21:44  <andythenorth> have maybe 3 truck models
19:21:47  <planetmaker> that's an interesting concept :-)
19:21:53  <andythenorth> it's insane :|
19:21:59  <planetmaker> indeed it is
19:22:01  <andythenorth> but would make for a very simple buy menu
19:22:22  <andythenorth> and it's better for trams than having say, 105 different trams in the buy menu :P
19:22:26  <frosch123> probably does not work at all for autoreplace :p
19:22:40  <frosch123> unless you never ewant to change model
19:22:40  <andythenorth> ugh
19:22:46  <andythenorth> ach
19:22:54  <andythenorth> all that matters is you have 'tank truck'
19:23:11  <andythenorth> of certain capacity
19:23:27  <andythenorth> everything else (speed, power etc) you just want 'best' , right?
19:23:47  <frosch123> too short purchase lists are also bad if you play with breakdowns
19:23:55  <frosch123> nars sucks esp. with that
19:24:46  <planetmaker> too short purchase lists?
19:25:14  <frosch123> with breakdowns you need multiple similar vehicles, so you can drop those with very low reliability
19:25:23  <planetmaker> oh, hm, yes
19:25:27  <frosch123> that does not work for vehicles which upgrade themself
19:25:38  <frosch123> instead it renders a complete series useless :p
19:26:12  <planetmaker> different playing styles :-) It's a problem I rarely encounter, I guess
19:26:30  <andythenorth> so how insane is my idea?
19:26:35  <andythenorth> workable?
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19:43:31  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the lack of autoreplace is a killer feature for me...
19:43:56  <andythenorth> hmm
19:43:57  <andythenorth> ok
19:44:02  <andythenorth> well it was a nice idea :P
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19:54:01  <FLHerne> andythenorth: It sounded saner than some of your other ideas :D
19:54:14  <FLHerne> But yes, autoreplace is important :P
19:54:30  * FLHerne relies on template-replace now :-(
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20:03:37  <andythenorth> so I am out of ideas for RVs :(
20:04:55  <andythenorth> anyone else got ideas?
20:06:17  <Jake> Motorbikes?
20:07:03  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Does 'separate vehicles of the same family for different cargo groups' work?
20:07:21  <andythenorth> yes ish
20:07:23  <FLHerne> Buy-menu spam > no truckset :P
20:07:50  <andythenorth> variable length makes it worse
20:08:04  <andythenorth> let's say 7 types of tram
20:08:06  <andythenorth> 3 lengths
20:08:12  <andythenorth> 5 cargo groups
20:08:20  <andythenorth> @calc 7 * 3 * 5
20:08:20  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 105
20:08:31  <FLHerne> Trams are just a pain :P
20:08:55  <FLHerne> How many kinds of relengthable tram will be available at one time, though?
20:09:10  <Wolf01> nighty night
20:09:14  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
20:09:18  <andythenorth> about 3 or 4
20:09:30  <andythenorth> assuming vehicles expire
20:10:07  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Only 50-odd entries then :P
20:10:17  <FLHerne> Is there a limit on buy-menu entries?
20:10:26  <andythenorth> not afaik
20:10:48  <FLHerne> No real problem then :P
20:11:12  <andythenorth> the variable lengths might need to be abandoned
20:11:50  <FLHerne> The refitting method is silly and unusable :P
20:12:05  <FLHerne> But variable length in general is nice :P
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20:31:44  <frosch123> night
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20:39:55  <andythenorth> bye
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21:21:44  <Jake> O...kay. That is genuinely the first time I've regretted not at least skim-reading server rules.
21:22:09  <FLHerne> Jake: What server?
21:22:20  <Jake> OpenTTDCoop.
21:22:24  <TrueBrain> Rule 1: insult someone within 5 minutes
21:22:24  * FLHerne remembers Luukland's ones were nasty
21:22:38  <TrueBrain> I love my own server rules :D
21:22:48  <FLHerne> Jake: Odd? I always remembered them as being quite sane :P
21:23:19  <Jake> I mean, these things normally come down to "don't link to porn, don't spam, don't be a dick".
21:23:43  <FLHerne> The 'coop' part is a hint :P
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21:25:04  <TrueBrain> pff, and an (unwritten) channel rule is that leaving while in a conversation is rude too!
21:25:05  <TrueBrain> pfffff
21:25:07  <TrueBrain> :D
21:25:34  <FLHerne> Soory, WM fail :-(
21:25:44  <TrueBrain> :D
21:25:57  <Jake> Well, yeah. I admit I should've seen the "don't compete directly for other people's cargos" part coming. It's the one about not using ships because their running costs are jacked up sky-high that I didn't expect.
21:26:03  * FLHerne hates KWin sometimes :-(
21:26:30  <Kjetil> KWin probably hates you as well
21:26:32  <FLHerne> Probably because the PF for them lags :P
21:27:00  <FLHerne> Kjetil: Perhaps because I kick it out in favour of openbox any time I want to do real work :P
21:27:05  <TrueBrain> I can only hope KWin doesn't have any feelings :)
21:27:25  <Kjetil> Computers are people too!
21:27:42  <TrueBrain> says who?
21:28:03  <Kjetil> The internets
21:28:21  <TrueBrain> ah, ok. that settles it then :D
21:28:46  <TrueBrain> I hate my internet connection ... 35 more minutes before this movie is done downloading ..... :(
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22:02:54  <Zuu> Playing against this GS can be a challenge to find spots to build your connections. A industry is spawned every fift day:
22:03:56  <Zuu> (not a GS that I plan to release though - just testing a change in OpenTTD to allow GS to build industries for free)
22:04:05  <TrueBrain> that is sick Zuu
22:04:11  <TrueBrain> :P
22:04:52  <TrueBrain> you should add a newgrf where you can have slaves to move stuff over one industry :D
22:05:03  <TrueBrain> or station over industries!
22:05:04  <Zuu> What is interesting is that the GS pick a tile by random and a industry type independent of location. Yet all powerplants are on one side of the map and the coal mines on the other.
22:05:25  <TrueBrain> restrictions of the placing routine in OpenTTD itself?
22:05:34  <TrueBrain> doesnt it have code to avoid placing industries too close of some types?
22:05:46  <Zuu> maybe
22:05:51  <TrueBrain> just guessing :D
22:06:09  <TrueBrain> now what you need is underground stations
22:06:11  <TrueBrain> that would fix it
22:06:13  <Zuu> It sounds possible. you can see a distance between the coal mines and powerplants with no coal industries.
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22:10:10  <Zuu> I haven't yet figured out if my changes violate the NewGRF specs, multiplayer stability or some other important matter.
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22:13:03  <Zuu> We had a NoCarGoal game today with the goal to transport plenty of steel. Only problem was that there were only three iron ore mines on the entire map.
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22:14:41  <Zuu> Though the biggest problem was that it took 6 years to start to make money and then there was no time left to even think of funding industries.
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