Log for #openttd on 20th October 2012:
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00:52:30  <Goldobsidian> Hello, Can any one help me get a mod working?
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01:09:50  <goldobsidian> the AFKness of 105 people is astonishing
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02:48:37  <BadBrett> hello
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04:05:12  <Supercheese> goldobsidian: "the AFKness of 105 people is astonishing"
04:05:19  <Supercheese> You must be new to IRC ;)
04:10:45  <Supercheese> (oops, didn't read he left)
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04:11:04  <Supercheese> ChatZilla has weird text colors for that, hmm
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04:40:02  <BadBrett> supercheese!
04:40:24  <Supercheese> Me!
04:40:32  <BadBrett> hurrah!
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04:43:08  <BadBrett> are you working on any new projects?
04:43:51  <Supercheese> slowly but surely yes
04:44:06  <Supercheese> I had a Thermodynamics exam today, so I haven't had time to do much else
04:46:54  <BadBrett> i saved that one for ~3 years :)
04:48:34  <BadBrett> how did it go?
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04:51:44  <Supercheese> I felt really good about it, I predict I'll get 95-100%
04:52:24  <Supercheese> strangely, I'm having a much harder time in Circuits than I am in thermo
04:52:35  <Supercheese> (waaaay off-topic :P )
04:53:20  <BadBrett> 95-100%!? are you an ultra-nerd or are your exams super easy? :
04:53:55  <BadBrett> (or maybe i just don't understand your system)
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04:56:14  <BadBrett> all those stupid cycles... the carnot cycle, the stirling cycle... how many can there be?
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05:45:34  <Scottyob> Howdy, quick question
05:46:00  <Scottyob> I'm farming out an oil rig, then someone else sees this is where a lot of my income is coming from, so goes and mines it out from underneath me
05:46:08  <Scottyob> is there a way to "claim" mines in the game?
05:46:10  <Scottyob> or purchase?
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06:02:34  <Eddi|zuHause> no
06:03:23  <Eddi|zuHause> some servers forbid this though, so ask an admin/moderator whether this is the case
06:07:47  <Scottyob> Eddi|zuHause, ah it was just a friendly game against my brother, no server/admin :P
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06:09:27  <DanMacK> Morning/Evening all
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06:13:44  <Rubidium> evening DanMacK
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06:20:52  <__ln__> should we decide "GMT only"
06:21:00  <__ln__> besides English only
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06:28:19  <DanMacK> Hey Andy
06:33:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i doubt that would find a consensus
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06:35:21  <DanMacK> WB
06:43:09  <Supercheese> As long as we don't use that sill @time thing
06:43:13  <Supercheese> silly*
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06:45:46  <Terkhen> good morning
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06:50:58  <andythenorth> lo Terkhen
06:53:22  <__ln__> Supercheese: good @329 to you too
06:53:33  <Supercheese> -__-
06:54:08  <Supercheese> I don't understand the difference between that and GMT. They both choose an arbitrary datum state, no?
06:54:23  <Supercheese> Perhaps more concise to say @something rather than GMT something
06:58:58  <TyrHeimdal> morning :)
06:59:37  <TyrHeimdal> question: Is there a way to get trains on a sideline to accelerate and fit into a slot big enough for it on a main line?
07:07:04  <Rubidium> TyrHeimdal: yes
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07:07:42  <TyrHeimdal> Rubidium: could you please point me in the right direction? :)
07:07:55  <Rubidium> TyrHeimdal: (but probably read the whole page)
07:10:11  <V453000> also note that in 99% cases it is more viable to add another line instead ;)
07:10:43  <V453000> using trains with reasonable acceleration is a solution as well
07:11:52  <V453000> another option is pre-accelerated priority
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07:13:52  <TyrHeimdal> I'll look into these
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07:53:28  <andythenorth> optional function parameters....a saving grace, or work of the devil?
07:53:39  <BadBrett> andy... what variable to you recommend to prevent industries (such as fishing harbour) to be built in lakes?
07:54:15  <andythenorth> ah, that's really hard
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07:54:47  <andythenorth> a 'lake' is just a small sea right?
07:54:59  <BadBrett> yes
07:55:20  <BadBrett> i was thinking of setting a certain distance from the map edge
07:55:45  <BadBrett> doesn't FIRS do this?
07:56:58  <Terkhen> that would break fishing harbours on island maps
07:57:01  <andythenorth> use the magic 'clear water tile' tile in your industry layout
07:57:06  <andythenorth> it's 0xFF iirc
07:57:17  <andythenorth> and will have an equivalent constant in nml
07:57:28  <andythenorth> look at FIRS industry code for examples
07:57:40  <BadBrett> will do
07:57:43  <BadBrett> how does it work?
07:57:45  <andythenorth>
07:57:52  <andythenorth> it's in the newgrf wiki somewhere
07:57:57  <BadBrett> thanks
07:57:58  <andythenorth> under industry tiles probably
07:58:02  <andythenorth> np
07:58:04  * andythenorth biab
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08:03:58  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz
08:04:07  <ZxBiohazardZx> in git how do i fetch a diff on my local commits?
08:04:16  <ZxBiohazardZx> aka i have orgin/head
08:04:18  <ZxBiohazardZx> and master
08:04:27  <ZxBiohazardZx> with 2 personal diffs between
08:04:32  <ZxBiohazardZx> and i want the diffs so i can post them
08:04:39  <ZxBiohazardZx> is there a fast way to generate them?
08:05:43  <ZxBiohazardZx> nvm i think i got them
08:08:41  <ZxBiohazardZx> :)
08:08:51  <ZxBiohazardZx> git generated .patches
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08:12:36  <Supercheese> g'night all
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08:13:28  <Terkhen> ZxBiohazardZx: 0003 looks like it needs some savegame conversion for older games, otherwise you are turning "quarters" into "months" for older games
08:14:01  <ZxBiohazardZx> @Terkhen aha and how do i add that?
08:14:09  <Terkhen> and the comment for months_of_bankruptcy in 0003 is mentioning "quarters" still
08:14:09  <ZxBiohazardZx> also doesnt the oldloader thing fix that?
08:14:27  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz let me see
08:14:43  <Terkhen> ZxBiohazardZx: the savegame handling code fixes old savegames, as long as you code the necessary changes for it to do so :)
08:15:04  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz
08:15:20  <ZxBiohazardZx> no clue if i updated it correctly, i did update oldloader and something else in saveload
08:15:25  <ZxBiohazardZx> see 0003
08:15:48  <Terkhen> you need to bump the savegame version, and add a IsSavegameVersionBefore check to afterload.cpp (see others already present for example)
08:16:02  <Terkhen> to my knowledge, oldloader is only for TTD savegames
08:17:07  <ZxBiohazardZx> reposted 0003, now with correct comment
08:17:43  <ZxBiohazardZx> saveload/afterload.cpp right?
08:17:55  <Terkhen> yes
08:19:03  <ZxBiohazardZx> ok and there i just do something like
08:20:02  <ZxBiohazardZx> if(IsSavegameVersionBefore(version) {FOR_ALL_COMPANIES (c){ c->months_of_bankruptcy = 0; } }
08:20:11  <ZxBiohazardZx> aka just reset bankruptcy statistics on saveload
08:20:14  <TyrHeimdal> It's facinating to watch the map with the vechile overlay on only as you send all trains to depot
08:20:16  <ZxBiohazardZx> or actually convert the values?
08:20:24  <TyrHeimdal> need to switch to maglev trakcs
08:20:26  <TyrHeimdal> *tracks
08:20:46  <ZxBiohazardZx> aka if quarters_of_bankruptcy = 0 then set months=0, if 1 then months=3, if 2 then months=6 etc?
08:21:42  <Terkhen> ZxBiohazardZx: it would need to convert the values, yes
08:22:17  <ZxBiohazardZx> so switch based or just 3 ifs (case4 cant be saved for its just a declare)
08:22:30  <ZxBiohazardZx> also where should the if be placed (bottom or random?)
08:22:37  <ZxBiohazardZx> they are not quite in line for me :P
08:24:58  <Terkhen> I don't remember how afterload is organized, check if it is split on parts (vehicle, companies and so on), if not, at the bottom
08:25:51  <ZxBiohazardZx> nah it seems just random so ill put on bottom
08:25:54  <ZxBiohazardZx> just a question
08:25:58  <ZxBiohazardZx> we have old/new variables ofc
08:26:26  <ZxBiohazardZx> so would if(c->quarters_of_bankruptcy=1){c->months_of_bankruptcy=3}  work?
08:26:37  <ZxBiohazardZx> or do i have to add new variables to convert shit?
08:28:37  <Terkhen> no, it does not have the old variables; you renamed quarters_of_bankruptcy to months_of_bankruptcy, therefore, for old savegames you will have a months_of_bankruptcy variable that contains the old value, which is in quarters
08:28:40  <Terkhen> so months_of_bankruptcy = months_of_bankruptcy * 3
08:29:07  <ZxBiohazardZx> ah ofc
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08:29:54  <ZxBiohazardZx> and how do i set savegameversion?
08:30:03  <ZxBiohazardZx> aka how do i get my magic number?
08:30:03  <Terkhen> check saveload.cpp
08:30:10  <ZxBiohazardZx> k
08:30:10  <Terkhen> it's at the beginning
08:30:14  <Terkhen> hi andythenorth_
08:30:36  <ZxBiohazardZx> lol gg comment there fails
08:30:44  <ZxBiohazardZx> afterload.cpp contains is before 177
08:30:48  <andythenorth_> Eh? Reddit have an openttd irc channel
08:30:48  <ZxBiohazardZx> comment lists to 176 :P
08:31:17  <ZxBiohazardZx> extern const uint16 SAVEGAME_VERSION = 176; ///< Current savegame version of OpenTTD.
08:31:28  <ZxBiohazardZx> werid
08:31:36  * andythenorth_ is in a long queue at post office
08:31:36  <ZxBiohazardZx> 	if (IsSavegameVersionBefore(177)) {
08:31:36  <ZxBiohazardZx> 		/* Fix too high inflation rates */
08:31:54  <ZxBiohazardZx> why do we have IsBefore 177 where current is set to 176
08:31:58  <ZxBiohazardZx> that if is always applied?:P
08:32:35  <Terkhen> ZxBiohazardZx: it is a fix that prevents an overflow on inflation, savegames with 176 can have it if they are from before the fix
08:32:49  <Terkhen> doing that check does not hurt if the game is not bugged, and therefore the savegame version wasn't bumped
08:33:23  <Terkhen> as soon as it is bumped, you can be sure that savegames with 177 do not have the bug, because they are from after the fix
08:34:38  <ZxBiohazardZx> ah ok
08:34:56  <ZxBiohazardZx> so i can add 177, but what value should the revisionid in comment be?
08:35:03  <ZxBiohazardZx> or will devs set it when it gets accepted?
08:35:41  <ZxBiohazardZx> also if mine is 177 then i check with IsSavegameVersionBefore(177) or (178) ?:P
08:35:50  <Terkhen> write ToDo or something like that, you can't know the revision beforehand
08:35:53  <Terkhen> 177
08:35:56  <ZxBiohazardZx> k
08:36:00  <andythenorth_> How many ships is too many? :p
08:36:24  <Terkhen> andythenorth_: ship models or ships in the same map?
08:36:33  <andythenorth_> models
08:36:53  <Terkhen> I don't know then :P
08:37:37  <andythenorth_> Dan is drawing really nice graphics for different variations of same ship
08:37:53  <andythenorth_> But each has to be a model in buy menu
08:38:05  <andythenorth_> Lots of ships...
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08:38:16  <Terkhen> and lot of refits if you make them "variants" :P
08:38:37  <andythenorth_> Same issue i guess yes
08:39:04  <Terkhen> I wonder if we should split refitting in two: "cargo carried" and "current vehicle model"
08:39:24  <Terkhen> the latter would need additional NewGRF support, of course
08:39:29  <andythenorth_> I want to
08:39:45  <andythenorth_> Use the user bits and add a gui
08:39:49  <ZxBiohazardZx> updated it
08:39:54  <ZxBiohazardZx>
08:40:00  <ZxBiohazardZx> can you verify if i didnt fuckup there?
08:40:09  <andythenorth_> Use same for liveries
08:40:31  <andythenorth_> And regearing etc
08:41:07  <Terkhen> andythenorth_: it sounds feasible, but it smells like the kind of feature which has hidden problems somewhere, so I may be missing some obvious issue :P
08:41:40  <andythenorth_> Most things have that :)
08:41:47  <Terkhen> ZxBiohazardZx: it does not look obviously wrong
08:42:46  <Terkhen> andythenorth_: do userbits have other use cases? I remember reading about them but I don't remember any practical usage
08:42:47  <andythenorth_> Can't be worse than subtypes :)
08:43:12  <ZxBiohazardZx> thx Terkhen then ill leave it there for review / implementation :)
08:43:20  <Terkhen> you are welcome
08:43:31  <andythenorth_>   User bits are 1 arbitrary and 2 only implemented for trains
08:43:33  <andythenorth_> Biab
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08:44:13  <DorpsGek> Commit by terkhen :: r24615 trunk/src/station_gui.cpp (2012-10-20 08:44:07 UTC)
08:44:14  <DorpsGek> -Feature [FS#5311]: Sort cargo filter by cargo name/label at the company stations window (sbr)
08:44:29  <Alberth> moin
08:44:48  <Terkhen> hi Alberth :)
08:44:53  <Alberth> planetmaker:  thanks for the advertisement :)
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08:48:26  <andythenorth_> Ah the challenge for user bits idea or similar is setting them for imdividual vehicles in a consist
08:48:59  <Terkhen> andythenorth_: adapting userbits do not sound like the good solution to me
08:49:24  <Terkhen> IMO it would be better to design a new mechanism which is created just for this new feature
08:49:40  <ZxBiohazardZx> lets see if i have more fun suggestions that i can try to code :P
08:50:15  <Terkhen> even if such mechanism is just a byte which can be set by OpenTTD when refitting
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08:52:10  <andythenorth_> Quite possibly
08:52:14  <Terkhen> the vehicles could have a "num_models" property, which describes how many models the vehicle can be refitted to, and a "current_model" value that is set by OpenTTD; if (num_models <= 1) then the vehicle would not have any model refitting
08:53:00  <Terkhen> a thing that worries me is the possible "hacky" usages of this :P
08:54:31  <ZxBiohazardZx>
08:54:40  <ZxBiohazardZx> epicly obvious yet not impelented :P
08:54:50  <ZxBiohazardZx> if you take a screenshot its dumped in \OTTD
08:54:56  <ZxBiohazardZx> why not \OTTD\screenshot
08:56:05  <Terkhen> bbl
08:56:12  <Alberth> bye Terkhen
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09:04:47  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz
09:04:53  <ZxBiohazardZx> stupid Screenshot.cpp
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09:05:09  <ZxBiohazardZx> static char _screenshot_name[128];    ///< Filename of the screenshot file.
09:05:09  <ZxBiohazardZx> char _full_screenshot_name[MAX_PATH]; ///< Pathname of the screenshot file.
09:05:17  <ZxBiohazardZx> char is string here?
09:05:18  <ZxBiohazardZx> or?
09:06:59  <ZxBiohazardZx> ah nvm ofc it is, its array of chars :P
09:10:10  <ZxBiohazardZx> Construct a pathname for a screenshot file... blegh its not adding the directory struct unless that is in params im missing
09:14:31  <ZxBiohazardZx> is SaveLoad used just for savegames or also for saving screenshots?
09:15:11  <ZxBiohazardZx> aka i cant find where screenshot.cpp gets the path info from
09:15:26  <andythenorth> hmm
09:15:33  <andythenorth> so model numbers would have problems
09:15:39  <andythenorth> consistency across autoreplace etc
09:15:56  <andythenorth> a unique set of labels, per-grf might be better
09:16:02  <andythenorth> similar to railtypes, cargo labels etc
09:16:10  <andythenorth> 'variants'
09:17:49  <andythenorth> gui only allows to select betwen available variants, per vehicle, in depot only
09:17:50  <ZxBiohazardZx> const char *name is passed each time, that should either include full path or partial name of some kind :(
09:18:27  <andythenorth> autoreplace will maintain variant label if available, otherwise uses default variant
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09:21:25  <ZxBiohazardZx> ok it sounded easier then it looks
09:21:33  <andythenorth> quak
09:21:50  <ZxBiohazardZx> i simply cant find where it fetches the path for screenshots :(
09:22:26  <frosch123> moin
09:23:15  <Alberth> moin
09:23:19  <ZxBiohazardZx> sup frosch123
09:23:30  <ZxBiohazardZx> feel like helping me out on a newbie thingy again?
09:23:48  <ZxBiohazardZx>
09:24:03  <ZxBiohazardZx> basically make screenshots save in \OTTD\screenshots instead of just dumping it into \OTTD
09:24:13  <frosch123> if you have a short question, yes. but i won't be able to follow irc for a longer period of time :)
09:24:19  * andythenorth wonders if label-based vehicle variants are just a new flavour of total madness
09:24:32  <ZxBiohazardZx> well i cant find where we fetch the file-path in the screenshot.cpp code
09:24:48  <ZxBiohazardZx> everything seems to be passed to functions, but it never gives a path location or where to put the file
09:25:08  <ZxBiohazardZx> only name i see is the default_fn (default filename)
09:25:11  <ZxBiohazardZx> but that again isnt a path-info
09:25:56  <ZxBiohazardZx> char _full_screenshot_name[MAX_PATH]; ///< Pathname of the screenshot file. seems to be the variable containing path
09:26:01  <frosch123> screenshot.cpp:720
09:26:05  <frosch123> _personal_dir
09:26:21  <ZxBiohazardZx> ah i see
09:26:32  <ZxBiohazardZx> so just add /screenshots there?
09:26:39  <ZxBiohazardZx> aka _personal_dir/screenshots would work?
09:26:59  <frosch123> how do the other things like "baseset" and "newgrf" do it?
09:27:08  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz ill check, good question
09:27:09  <frosch123> do they hardcode those things, or are there configure options?
09:27:30  <ZxBiohazardZx> ill check
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09:30:51  <ZxBiohazardZx>  * @param subdir     The sub directory to find the NewGRF in.
09:31:10  <ZxBiohazardZx> void LoadNewGRFFile(void LoadNewGRFFile(GRFConfig *config, uint file_index, GrfLoadingStage stage, Subdirectory subdir)
09:31:15  <ZxBiohazardZx> so its passed in some way
09:32:01  <ZxBiohazardZx> Subdirectory subdir = slot == file_index ? BASESET_DIR : NEWGRF_DIR;
09:32:21  <ZxBiohazardZx> so i guess copy-paste that for screenshots?
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09:34:58  <Terkhen> andythenorth: sounds complicated... autorenew could use the same model number, autoreplace would ignore model number and just use the first model of the target vehicle that can be refitted to the current cargo
09:35:35  <andythenorth> Terkhen: hmm
09:35:41  <ZxBiohazardZx> also if you change it then snprintf needs to accept another param
09:35:48  <andythenorth> I think complicated might be what is needed :o
09:36:10  <andythenorth> subtypes is number based, and fails quite horribly in several cases :)
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09:38:01  <Terkhen> andythenorth: I don't know if making a label scheme that works in all cases is even possible :P
09:39:13  <ZxBiohazardZx> how "flexible" are the "BaseSet" and "NewGrf" dir anyway
09:39:19  <ZxBiohazardZx> they are still hardcoded somewhere in code afaik
09:40:01  <Alberth> there is some code to find the base path afaik, to do what the readme explains
09:41:04  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmmz
09:41:14  <ZxBiohazardZx> well ALberth i want to add OTTD\Screenshots
09:41:17  <andythenorth> Terkhen: try and imagine some failure cases :)
09:41:18  <ZxBiohazardZx> to put screenshots there
09:41:24  <ZxBiohazardZx> instead of littering the "default" folder
09:41:31  <andythenorth> I think train consists are very hard for this idea of variants
09:41:36  <andythenorth> especially mixed newgrfs
09:41:40  <Alberth> there are several folders
09:42:14  <Alberth> you have to decide in which base path to put it, probably along the lines of where the savegames get stored
09:42:32  <Terkhen> andythenorth: you have a ship with a "tank" model, you try to autoreplace it for another ship which only has a "container" model; the new model can carry the cargo you want but the labels do not match
09:43:00  <andythenorth> in that case default to first in list
09:43:11  <andythenorth> there's no guarantee to maintain the label, only if they match
09:43:23  <andythenorth> I would keep this 100% decoupled from refittable cargo btw ;)
09:43:48  <ZxBiohazardZx> Albert screenshots dont have anything but _personal_dir defined
09:43:54  <ZxBiohazardZx> so do i just add /screenshots there
09:44:09  <ZxBiohazardZx> or do we want it configureable and maybe even add it to saveload?
09:44:49  <Alberth> nope
09:45:10  <Alberth> I don't want to know where you store your screenshots :)
09:45:35  <Terkhen> andythenorth: do you mean that "all models should be refittable to the same cargos"?
09:45:39  <Alberth> quite likely your path does not even exist at my machine ;)
09:45:49  <andythenorth> Terkhen: no
09:45:53  <andythenorth> hmm
09:46:01  <Terkhen> because that would simplify things, a lot :P
09:46:20  <andythenorth> how does autoreplace currently handle replacing when existing cargo isn't refittable
09:46:46  <ZxBiohazardZx> Alberth it currently just puts them all in _personal_dir
09:46:51  <andythenorth> I guess it fails with message?
09:46:53  <ZxBiohazardZx> aka default \OTTD
09:47:06  <Terkhen> andythenorth: I have no idea :)
09:47:11  <ZxBiohazardZx> instead i want it to save to _personal_dir\subdir
09:47:25  <ZxBiohazardZx> similar to how we dont put all newgrfs in OTTD i want to put screenshots in their own folder
09:47:26  <Alberth> ZxBiohazardZx: yep, you've told that a few times already :)
09:47:28  <planetmaker> good morning
09:47:34  <Alberth> moin planetmaker
09:47:44  <ZxBiohazardZx> but current code doesnt allow that, thus my question is: how to implement a subdir correctly in code :P
09:47:50  <ZxBiohazardZx> also heya planetmaker
09:48:25  <Alberth> and you think I know that? :)
09:49:06  <Alberth> we also mostly look at existing art, and decide whether that is good enough to re-use
09:49:50  <planetmaker> :-) yeah. When I have a question about "how should I do", the answer often is "look like we did with ..."
09:49:53  <ZxBiohazardZx> Alberth true, but lets say i cant paint, but ill try to draw something that might be a piece of art in 100 years or so
09:50:23  <Alberth> that sounds ambitious :)
09:50:26  <ZxBiohazardZx> Subdirectory subdir = slot == file_index ? BASESET_DIR : NEWGRF_DIR;
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09:50:35  <ZxBiohazardZx> its like abracadabra :P
09:51:36  <Alberth> never seen the ?: operator before?
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09:51:49  <frosch123> ZxBiohazardZx: fileio.cpp has a table "_subdirs"
09:52:00  <frosch123> there the paths for the various XXX_DIR are specified
09:52:12  <planetmaker> if slot == file_index then subdir = BASESET_DIR else subdir = NEWGRF_DIR
09:52:19  <frosch123> i guess you need a new SCREENSHOT_DIR enum item, an entry in the table
09:52:34  <frosch123> and then make the fileio stuff give you the path
09:52:50  <ZxBiohazardZx> ah ok so its fileio
09:52:57  <ZxBiohazardZx> thx
09:53:06  <frosch123> FioGetFullPath and stuff
09:53:17  <ZxBiohazardZx> also planet i updated the bankruptcy patch, should be done
09:53:22  <ZxBiohazardZx> k
09:53:38  <frosch123> but you should really get a machine with some kind of grep :)
09:55:10  <ZxBiohazardZx> haha
09:55:46  <Alberth> no really, that's the best way to look for things
09:55:48  <planetmaker> That was an honest suggestion ;-)
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09:56:02  <ZxBiohazardZx> i know, i think notepad++ can search dirs for words
09:56:14  <ZxBiohazardZx> but ill get a linux on the side
09:57:46  <Terkhen> you can install grep for windows from gnuwin32
09:58:08  <Terkhen> there is also stuff like grepwin, which is integrated with windows interface
10:00:29  <Terkhen> andythenorth: <-- IMO you need to dredge the river to build a canal, yes
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10:12:37  <ZxBiohazardZx>
10:12:44  <ZxBiohazardZx> probably far from correct, but its my first shot :P
10:15:52  <Alberth> Subdirectory subdir = slot == file_index ? SCREENSHOT_DIR;  <-- that trivially fails to compile
10:17:50  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz
10:18:04  <ZxBiohazardZx> lemmy try to setup my VS10 for it
10:18:07  <ZxBiohazardZx> and check
10:18:14  <planetmaker> you should compile-test your patches before you post them ;-)
10:18:17  <planetmaker> at least
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10:19:45  <ZxBiohazardZx> its in suggestions
10:20:01  <ZxBiohazardZx> and i warned you of my crappyness :P
10:20:08  <LordAro> mornings all
10:20:27  <planetmaker> 'lo LordAro
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10:20:56  <planetmaker> hm, compiling with just -j makes my machine behave sluggish :-P
10:21:09  <ZxBiohazardZx> lemmy google on how to compile/generate VS10 solution
10:22:16  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz no guide on Microsoft Visual C++ 10 full?
10:23:21  <planetmaker> I believe that there's a guide on MSVC in the wiki. Which applies to MSVC 10 as well
10:24:13  <Alberth> planetmaker: you need more processors :p
10:24:47  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmhm ill use the 2008 one
10:25:34  <planetmaker> ZxBiohazardZx, but you read the wiki page, yes?
10:25:58  <Terkhen> ZxBiohazardZx: <-- this one is for 2010, I linked to the part that is different between 2008 and 2010
10:26:02  <ZxBiohazardZx> yes im on wiki
10:26:15  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz
10:26:29  <ZxBiohazardZx> can you add that page to the list ont he main wiki?
10:26:33  <ZxBiohazardZx> but htx
10:26:46  <planetmaker> search functions are also available in the wiki ;-)
10:26:51  <Terkhen> no, because I have no idea if it is updated or correct :)
10:27:13  <planetmaker> is also there
10:27:15  <Terkhen> the person who created that tutorial never finished it, I don't know if it is right or wrong; I use MinGW instead
10:27:30  <Terkhen> oh, it is? nice :P
10:27:31  <ZxBiohazardZx> well i have VS 10 full
10:27:37  <ZxBiohazardZx> for trinitycore
10:27:43  <ZxBiohazardZx> same for cmake and some other shit
10:27:50  <ZxBiohazardZx> but yeah ill try to get it working :P
10:28:10  <planetmaker> we could rename the page...
10:29:12  <ZxBiohazardZx> for msvc do i just need headers/librairies for MsVC or also the sources of usefull-4.2
10:31:20  <ZxBiohazardZx> Now you need to tell Visual C++ where the files are located. In Visual C++ Express 2008, navigate to Tools > Options > Projects and Solutions > VC++ Directories:
10:31:24  <ZxBiohazardZx> ow nvm
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10:33:39  <ZxBiohazardZx> yeah its not completely correct
10:34:35  <ZxBiohazardZx> i assume i load \trunk\projects\openttd_vs100.vcxproj ? or openttd_vs100.sln
10:34:40  <ZxBiohazardZx> (does it matter?)
10:36:10  <ZxBiohazardZx> Click the 'New Line' icon at the top, and add the folder <personal folder>\shared\include to the list.
10:36:50  <ZxBiohazardZx> is that openttd-essentials or openttd-essentials sources
10:40:38  <planetmaker> ah, ZxBiohazardZx also configure your editor to not allow trailing white spaces
10:41:55  <ZxBiohazardZx> ========== Build: 5 succeeded, 1 failed, 0 up-to-date, 1 skipped ==========
10:42:08  <ZxBiohazardZx> ah my bad planet, i disabled them on last edit :P
10:42:24  <ZxBiohazardZx> 1 failed is the logical error you pointed out so i think i linked the right stuff
10:42:29  <planetmaker> why would one ever disable that (except when writing in whitespace :-P )?
10:43:17  <ZxBiohazardZx> misclick whatever
10:43:18  <ZxBiohazardZx> fatal error C1075: end of file found before the left brace '{' at 'd:\sourcecodes\ottd\trunk\src\saveload\afterload.cpp(481)' was matched
10:43:33  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz lemmy jsut revert back some changes i did before i recheck the works
10:43:37  <planetmaker> hm, so we just change the bancruptcy check to monthly instead of daily? Is that good enough?
10:44:35  <ZxBiohazardZx> d:\sourcecodes\ottd\trunk\src\gfx.cpp(303): fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'unicode/ubidi.h': No such file or directory
10:44:43  <ZxBiohazardZx> ok so i do lack some includes :(
10:45:02  <ZxBiohazardZx> i think monthly check is good enough
10:45:22  <ZxBiohazardZx> a real bank doesnt care if your negative on 1 day, as long as the month-statistics look ok
10:46:09  <Alberth> openttd bank is not a real bank :p
10:47:19  <Alberth> ZxBiohazardZx: By that notion, why is quartetly check not good then?
10:47:22  <planetmaker> ZxBiohazardZx, there's no point to add a 2nd check for IsSavegameVersionBefore(177) IMHO
10:47:32  <planetmaker> could be in the same if branch
10:48:16  <planetmaker> but maybe frosch123 has an idea whether we use a separate IsSavegameVersionBefore for each "item" or rather each "version"
10:48:52  <frosch123> usually there is only one
10:49:15  <frosch123> it's not about good or bad, it's about consistency
10:49:33  <ZxBiohazardZx> Alberth old system didnt work nice on quarters, new system might, but someone proposed to make the check monthly
10:49:38  <planetmaker> yes, that's why I'd prefer that, too. Though... it's not in increasing savegame version there
10:49:46  <ZxBiohazardZx> so if you get out of trouble in a non-quarter month you wont get screwed over
10:50:11  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz
10:50:12  <ZxBiohazardZx> 7>d:\sourcecodes\ottd\trunk\src\group_gui.cpp(514): warning C4018: '>' : signed/unsigned mismatch
10:50:23  <planetmaker> Alberth, the idea is that three failed checks on a random (=1st of quarter) day will send you bancrupt while you actually are doing good enough
10:50:30  <ZxBiohazardZx> 7>d:\sourcecodes\ottd\trunk\src\road_cmd.cpp(798): warning C4800: 'RoadBits' : forcing value to bool 'true' or 'false' (performance warning)
10:50:40  <ZxBiohazardZx> 7>d:\sourcecodes\ottd\trunk\src\saveload\afterload.cpp(2779): error C2601: 'ReloadNewGRFData' : local function definitions are illegal
10:50:40  <ZxBiohazardZx> 7>          d:\sourcecodes\ottd\trunk\src\saveload\afterload.cpp(481): this line contains a '{' which has not yet been matched
10:50:40  <ZxBiohazardZx> 7>d:\sourcecodes\ottd\trunk\src\saveload\afterload.cpp(2806): fatal error C1075: end of file found before the left brace '{' at 'd:\sourcecodes\ottd\trunk\src\saveload\afterload.cpp(481)' was matched
10:50:44  <planetmaker> paste!
10:50:56  <ZxBiohazardZx> meh ofc :P
10:50:56  <Alberth> planetmaker: yeah, but is 1st  a month not equally random?
10:51:07  <planetmaker> yes. but it's 3x as often then
10:51:07  <ZxBiohazardZx> wrong window :P
10:51:15  <planetmaker> which makes the issue less severe
10:51:46  <planetmaker> I'm not sure why ZxBiohazardZx didn't implement a daily check though. Or what the contra-indication to that would be
10:52:17  <planetmaker> I might have missed that part of discussion but would like to see that argument :-)
10:52:42  <ZxBiohazardZx>
10:52:51  <ZxBiohazardZx> well i didnt make it daily
10:52:59  <ZxBiohazardZx> for the call was in a monthly loop anyway
10:53:01  <ZxBiohazardZx> main reason
10:53:27  <ZxBiohazardZx> its not impossible to make it daily, but how will that improve apart from causeing alot of flaggin, unflagging to happen (every red day flags you, every positive unflags you)
10:53:28  <planetmaker> nor did you make a higher interest on negative cash, right?
10:53:51  <ZxBiohazardZx> also you would have to specify 9 months worth of days (31 days vs 30 days a month, 28 in feb) to actually declare bankrupt
10:54:13  <ZxBiohazardZx> someone mentioned that the higher interest (3) was just to compensate for quarterly-status
10:54:23  <ZxBiohazardZx> by making 1x rate on negative cash
10:54:31  <ZxBiohazardZx> sitting on -10k is the same as having 10k loan
10:54:44  <ZxBiohazardZx> so gameplaywise its valid
10:55:02  <ZxBiohazardZx> if you want to add a penalty or even a difficulty setting then yeah ofc there are even more options
10:55:27  <ZxBiohazardZx> see paste2 btw
10:55:32  <ZxBiohazardZx> 4 "issues" (not errors)
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10:55:42  <planetmaker> well. This way you still lower the difficulty: you don't have to watch money and will go bancrupt less quickly (as it's checked more often)
10:55:47  <ZxBiohazardZx> missing } somewhere apparently
10:55:57  <ZxBiohazardZx> planet i agree
10:56:05  <ZxBiohazardZx> but by hardcoding a 2 or 3 in there its not making any sense
10:56:17  <ZxBiohazardZx> and i didnt feel pro enough to make it a configurable difficulty setting or so :P
10:58:25  <ZxBiohazardZx> as for your question for the IsSavegameVersion i dont see why 177 is on the older one, i bumped it to 177, so i think 176 would suffice there
10:58:47  <ZxBiohazardZx> but yeah double if can be removed if you want
11:06:58  <planetmaker> nah, my point was, ZxBiohazardZx, that you add a 2nd IsSavegameVersionBefore(177) where we already have one
11:10:57  <planetmaker> ZxBiohazardZx, and I'm pretty sure you declare a company already bancrupt after 7 months now
11:11:22  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz
11:11:41  <ZxBiohazardZx> no i didnt change it compared to previous
11:11:46  <ZxBiohazardZx> ow wait
11:11:56  <planetmaker> and you missed to update the comment
11:11:57  <ZxBiohazardZx> 0-1-2-3 is nothing
11:12:16  <ZxBiohazardZx> 4-5-6 is warn 7-8-9 offer others to buy you 10 = bankrupt
11:12:17  <ZxBiohazardZx> no?
11:12:21  <ZxBiohazardZx> ill check :P
11:12:50  <ZxBiohazardZx> ill clean up that 3rd one a bit more, remove whitespaces, fix missing } etc
11:13:27  <planetmaker> on 7,8 and 9 you declare bancrupt. on 4,5 and 6 you issue a news message. Probably still saying quarterly or so. You want to adjust taht IMHO. And IMHO one message after 6 months suffices
11:14:02  <planetmaker> please test your patches :-)
11:14:57  <ZxBiohazardZx> it only pops the message on 6
11:15:04  <ZxBiohazardZx> ow wait 4 rollsinto 5 rolls into 6
11:15:09  <ZxBiohazardZx> add a break after 5?
11:15:35  <planetmaker> which could be concatenated to just one after 5 (and none after 3)
11:16:02  <planetmaker> and possibly 7 and 8 could also just get the break
11:16:17  <ZxBiohazardZx> true
11:16:23  <ZxBiohazardZx> so 7 8 break 9
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11:23:21  <ZxBiohazardZx> so what about the other warnings i didnt introduce myself?
11:23:27  <ZxBiohazardZx>
11:23:35  <ZxBiohazardZx> line 1, 3, 10
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11:24:43  <planetmaker> you introduced the error in afterload
11:25:02  <planetmaker> you are missing a } somewhere there
11:28:05  <ZxBiohazardZx> i fixed the }
11:28:22  <ZxBiohazardZx> if lacked a } im compiling/checking now
11:28:29  <ZxBiohazardZx> ========== Rebuild All: 5 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 skipped ==========
11:28:35  <ZxBiohazardZx> blegh fucking includes fail me somewhere
11:28:49  <ZxBiohazardZx> no wait
11:28:51  <ZxBiohazardZx> not this time
11:28:58  <ZxBiohazardZx> 7>..\src\music\dmusic.cpp(25): fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'dmusici.h': No such file or directory
11:29:01  <ZxBiohazardZx> that one still :(
11:29:43  <ZxBiohazardZx>
11:29:47  <ZxBiohazardZx> result of last build
11:30:19  <ZxBiohazardZx> still the signed/unsigned, a forced bool and that missing include
11:30:20  <frosch123> that's the direct music thingie
11:30:33  <frosch123> it has been removed a view years ago from the ms sdk
11:30:52  <frosch123> no idea whether ottd has an option to disable it, or whether we still recommend to use some older sdk
11:31:00  <andythenorth> hmm
11:31:06  <andythenorth> why do these fences flicker?
11:32:00  <planetmaker> bounding box, andythenorth ?
11:32:04  <andythenorth> could be
11:32:06  <planetmaker> they need be building sprites
11:32:10  <planetmaker> not child to ground
11:32:16  <andythenorth> yes
11:32:31  <andythenorth> possibly the extents are wrong
11:32:39  <frosch123> or they extend over the tile's borders
11:32:42  <planetmaker> and the NE and NW need come before the actual building, the SW and SE after the actual building
11:33:04  <andythenorth> yup
11:34:10  <andythenorth> it's either the fences have wrong bb
11:34:18  <andythenorth> or the animated sprites for oil well have wrong bb
11:34:19  <ZxBiohazardZx> frosh123 so how do i manually include it?
11:34:36  <frosch123> no idea, i am not on windows
11:35:03  <andythenorth> I've pushed FIRS with this flicker, it's on the oil wells
11:35:09  <andythenorth> r3015
11:35:12  <ZxBiohazardZx> build fails on it for me :(
11:35:40  <frosch123> <- the wiki says you have to use the sdk from 2007
11:36:31  <frosch123> as i said, no idea whether that is still the case
11:37:58  <ZxBiohazardZx>      Alternative: If you are willing to compile without support for MIDI music you will not be needing the DirectX SDK. To disable music, open the "openttd" project properties dialog and:
11:37:58  <ZxBiohazardZx>         Navigate to Configuration properties -> C/C++ -> Preprocessor -> Preprocessor Definitions and remove WIN32_ENABLE_DIRECTMUSIC_SUPPORT preprocessor definition.
11:38:00  <ZxBiohazardZx> win
11:41:41  <andythenorth> hmm
11:41:50  <andythenorth> below snowline fences aren't shown for oil well either
11:42:00  * andythenorth can't read the code due to toddlers making buses
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11:48:03  <ZxBiohazardZx> ========== Build: 6 succeeded, 0 failed, 0 up-to-date, 1 skipped ==========
11:48:04  <ZxBiohazardZx> :)
11:48:17  <ZxBiohazardZx> 7>..\src\road_cmd.cpp(798): warning C4800: 'RoadBits' : forcing value to bool 'true' or 'false' (performance warning)
11:48:28  <ZxBiohazardZx> i didnt change it, but should that be fixed or ?
11:50:13  <Terkhen> it should be fixed, I'll check it since it is my code
11:51:08  <ZxBiohazardZx> didnt pull latest but k
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11:52:34  <ZxBiohazardZx> same for ..\src\group_gui.cpp(514): warning C4018: '>' : signed/unsigned mismatch
11:52:42  <ZxBiohazardZx> anywayz lemmy update 0003
11:53:10  <Terkhen> ZxBiohazardZx: return ((bits & DiagDirToRoadBits(ReverseDiagDir(dir))) != 0); <--- does switching that line to this solve the road_cmd warning for you?
11:54:38  <Alberth> too many parentheses :)
11:55:00  <Alberth> but yeah, something like that
11:55:28  * planetmaker likes rather one level of parentheses more to make order clear than one too little ;-)
11:55:54  <Alberth> around the entire expression?
11:56:25  <planetmaker> point :-)
11:56:27  <Terkhen> oh, true, the external pair was already there before my change, I'll remove it
11:57:51  <ZxBiohazardZx> Terkhen lemmy check in a sec
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12:02:24  <Terkhen> I wonder about the group_gui error; all the values in that line are unsigned, maybe MSVC thinks that the addition of two unsigned values should be signed
12:02:36  <Terkhen> s/addition/sum/
12:06:04  <Alberth> think so too, uint16+uint16 -> int,   int > uint --> warning
12:06:31  <ZxBiohazardZx> maybe there is something like (unsigned )^2 or so int there
12:06:31  <Alberth> what I am wondering about is however whether the conversion to int is correct
12:06:47  <ZxBiohazardZx> nvm
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12:08:05  <Wolf01> hello
12:08:08  <Alberth> ahoy Wolf01
12:11:13  <Terkhen> hi Wolf01
12:12:10  <ZxBiohazardZx> updated bankruptcy patch, hope its up to codestandards now
12:12:27  <Wolf01> I just tried cities XL 2012, looks like a more flexible sim city, I hope to be able to run a city for more than 2 years :P
12:13:54  <Wolf01> 'til now, the only sim/tycoon game I was able to play succesfully is TT :P
12:14:19  <Alberth> first simcity was also very easy imho
12:14:26  <planetmaker> hm, I don't bancrupt in single player?
12:14:49  <Alberth> could be, but  I am not sure
12:15:34  <ZxBiohazardZx> planetmaker i didnt change the code
12:15:40  <planetmaker> 18 months passed with negative cash and max loan in 1.2.2
12:15:50  <ZxBiohazardZx> no your right
12:15:54  <ZxBiohazardZx> single player ignores it
12:15:56  <ZxBiohazardZx> see code
12:16:09  <planetmaker> I got the warning after 6 months that I'll get sold off after 6 months, though.
12:16:15  <ZxBiohazardZx> 				 * is no THE-END, otherwise mark the client as spectator to make sure
12:16:15  <ZxBiohazardZx> 				 * he/she is no long in control of this company. However... when you
12:16:15  <ZxBiohazardZx> 				 * join another company (cheat) the "unowned" company can bankrupt. */
12:16:20  <planetmaker> obviously a toothless tiger warning ;-)
12:16:29  <Alberth> no other bank wants to buy your shares, and letting the transport company go bankrupt  would crash the economy :)
12:16:33  <ZxBiohazardZx> its case 10 first loader
12:16:59  <ZxBiohazardZx> if we are in offline mode (aka single player) then game can run forever and ever untill you cheat-companies or exit yourself
12:18:29  <ZxBiohazardZx> so now let me get back to my screenshots thingy
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12:21:32  <planetmaker> so current behaviour is: warning after 6, closure after 12 months
12:22:50  <planetmaker> does your patch keep that pattern?
12:23:48  <ZxBiohazardZx> yes now it does
12:23:53  <ZxBiohazardZx> see updated one in last post
12:24:01  <ZxBiohazardZx> warn on 6, close in 9
12:24:08  <ZxBiohazardZx> old closed in 9 too?
12:24:24  <planetmaker> in 12...
12:24:36  <ZxBiohazardZx> i close on 10 i think, just have to add case11 break then
12:24:37  <ZxBiohazardZx> not hard
12:24:56  <ZxBiohazardZx> case 10: case11: break; case 12:
12:24:58  <ZxBiohazardZx> fine
12:25:06  <planetmaker> yes, testing your patches. That's hard and time consuming
12:25:10  <planetmaker> writing code is the easy part
12:25:32  <planetmaker> you as in general you
12:25:36  <planetmaker> any
12:25:41  <planetmaker> not you personally :-)
12:25:53  <ZxBiohazardZx> i know
12:26:03  <ZxBiohazardZx> no offence taken, i know im lazy on testing part
12:26:10  <ZxBiohazardZx> then again its my first actual coding so
12:26:11  <planetmaker> yes. you are
12:26:29  <ZxBiohazardZx> anyway we offer the company up to others @ 9
12:26:44  <ZxBiohazardZx> warn on 6, try to sell on 9, bankrupt @ 12
12:28:13  <planetmaker> but don't be lazy with testing your patches. It's not motivating to review untested stuff
12:28:13  <ZxBiohazardZx> updated post again :P
12:28:28  <planetmaker> and you want us to look at it, right?
12:28:53  <ZxBiohazardZx> i agree, ill try to test this changeset in about 5 mins :P
12:29:03  <ZxBiohazardZx> atm i try to see why the screenshot dir thing is failing :P
12:30:24  <ZxBiohazardZx> but after ill check ask ask you for professional review :p
12:31:23  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz compile errorz gg
12:34:39  <planetmaker> you still didn't fix the comments
12:34:55  <planetmaker> missing space before {
12:35:09  <planetmaker> and inconsistent usage of spacer lines between different cases
12:35:40  <planetmaker> there's a comment to case 4 which needs updating
12:36:52  <ZxBiohazardZx> ah ok 4-> 12
12:36:53  <planetmaker> and wrong comment style for economy.cpp:625 hunk
12:37:02  <ZxBiohazardZx> and what you mean by spacer lines etc?
12:37:13  <planetmaker> and in hunk :774: you start capitalized after a full stop
12:37:26  <planetmaker> well, you don't. But one usually does
12:38:05  <ZxBiohazardZx> ah ok
12:38:14  <ZxBiohazardZx> spacer lines
12:38:16  <ZxBiohazardZx> what about that?
12:38:17  <planetmaker> look at how the cases are separated. Either by a blank line. Or by none. But now both is used
12:39:02  <ZxBiohazardZx> ah ok
12:39:08  <ZxBiohazardZx> what is prefered? none?
12:40:08  <planetmaker> I'd add one.
12:42:28  <ZxBiohazardZx> blegh patchfail
12:42:46  <ZxBiohazardZx> i tried to revert but then i overshot, but patch wont apply, corrupt line or so
12:43:09  <planetmaker> I use hg amend or hg qrefresh ;-)
12:43:22  <ZxBiohazardZx> git but ill clean it
12:49:23  <ZxBiohazardZx> wrong comment style for :625 i dont see any comment there
12:49:39  <ZxBiohazardZx> but i assume you mean the // Check for bankruptcy each month
12:50:00  <ZxBiohazardZx> to /* check bankruptcy each month */ ?
12:52:13  <Alberth> if it is a comment on a line by itself, yes
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12:52:34  <planetmaker> yes
12:52:38  <Alberth> you may want to read  the code style wiki page, where these things are documented
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12:53:24  <planetmaker> ZxBiohazardZx, I tested the patch now for the last hour. I'll leave it to you to do the same. And fix it accordingly. It does not behave as the existing behaviour wrt timing
12:53:37  <ZxBiohazardZx> still dont see your spacer lines planet but i will do Alberth
12:53:42  <planetmaker> took me some time to see the obvious mistake :-)
12:53:47  <Dans34> i see a few people on my server type !rules or !help , is this something that i can get on my server ?
12:53:58  <ZxBiohazardZx> haha ill test it planet
12:54:12  <ZxBiohazardZx> just lemmy fix style and then ill compile and test
12:54:22  <planetmaker> really play-test it
12:54:26  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmhm
12:54:27  <Alberth> Dans34: depends on the intended semantics of such lines of text :p
12:54:42  <planetmaker> to see the effect(s)
12:55:14  <Alberth> Dans34: server owners sometimes hook the chat to a irc bot
12:56:41  <Dans34> alberth  , is that some config option or do i need a special server version ?
12:57:34  <Alberth> you need some setup around the openttd program, but that's all I know.
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12:57:51  <Alberth> wb andy
12:58:26  <planetmaker> Dans34, we use a server wrapper which catches the command
12:58:56  <planetmaker> namely autopilot+ which we then add a callback to respond to that command
12:58:57  <Dans34> planetmaker, where can i get that wrapper ?
12:59:03  <planetmaker> iirc that is :-)
12:59:18  <planetmaker>
12:59:39  <planetmaker> don't waste your time with it, if you're running windows, though
12:59:49  <planetmaker> or be the first to make it work there :-)
13:00:35  <Terkhen> ZxBiohazardZx: did the road_cmd change remove the warning for you?
13:00:59  <Dans34> bah thats just the os my server is running
13:01:27  <Alberth> nice, adding a ScopeResolver in the newgrf code was easy, now if only I remembered the next step :p
13:02:20  <planetmaker> Dans34, the preferred way is anyway to use a script to hook to the admin port and respond from there. But there is to my knowledge no available ready-to-run script exists for that afaik. In all the three years no-one cared to publish any, if anyone has one for it
13:02:30  <planetmaker> so much for open source philosophy... :-(
13:02:48  <planetmaker> grab what you can get, but not give back is what many server owners exercise there, sadly
13:04:02  <Alberth> most solutions are probably too ugly and undocumented to have within a light year distance ;p
13:04:39  <planetmaker> likely ;-)
13:06:13  <ZxBiohazardZx> dunno Terkhen, didnt try, atm im trying to bankrupt myself
13:07:15  <ZxBiohazardZx> but in single player you wont bankrupt
13:07:16  <ZxBiohazardZx> XD
13:07:18  <planetmaker> hint: use the news backlog, a small map, and be not in the company yourself, if you test SP
13:07:30  <planetmaker> well observed ;-)
13:07:49  <planetmaker> but still, you can test it in SP ;-)
13:08:06  <planetmaker> as the condition is single player and within the company ;-)
13:08:14  <planetmaker> huge difference
13:10:03  <ZxBiohazardZx> im in multiplayering myself on a 64x64
13:10:12  <ZxBiohazardZx> made 1 train and just let it run for red numbers on company A
13:10:16  <ZxBiohazardZx> and im sitting in B watching it
13:10:32  <planetmaker> you can improve the speed of bancruptcy ;-)
13:10:34  <ZxBiohazardZx> and i got news log on to track
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13:15:07  <Dans34> can i configure the onjoin messge or do i need  that wrapper to do tht ?
13:15:40  <planetmaker> look in openttd's scripts dir
13:15:50  <Dans34> thanks
13:16:05  <ZxBiohazardZx> in trouble: 01-07-2012
13:16:44  <ZxBiohazardZx> so thats on month4
13:18:33  <ZxBiohazardZx> offered a takeover on 1-10-2012 (month 7)
13:22:38  <ZxBiohazardZx> Bankrupt! 01-01-2013 (q4)
13:22:45  <ZxBiohazardZx> so now lets see how new behaviour is
13:24:10  <ZxBiohazardZx> blegh game wont start
13:24:16  <ZxBiohazardZx> no available language packs?
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13:24:50  <ZxBiohazardZx> i compile then copy contents of bin -> openttd-folder/copy right?
13:26:47  <planetmaker> msvc has certainly the option for make bundle or so
13:27:15  <planetmaker> don't copy around just the binary. language files are compiled for one specific binary
13:27:22  <ZxBiohazardZx> This is not necessary in compiling OpenTTD, only if you want to upload your binary publicly.
13:27:36  <ZxBiohazardZx> also required to play it ofc
13:28:10  <ZxBiohazardZx> and ofc requires more software i dont have
13:28:11  <ZxBiohazardZx> epic
13:32:04  <NGC3982> Morning.
13:32:13  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz it wont generate .exe?
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13:32:51  <Ammler> Dans34: better use the libs based on new admin interface
13:33:36  <ZxBiohazardZx> The compiling is complete when the openttd.exe file is made. It will be copied to the ./bin subfolder.
13:33:42  <ZxBiohazardZx> gg for that not being created
13:33:43  <Dans34> Ammler ,where do i find that ?
13:34:40  <Ammler> e.g.
13:35:57  <Dans34> thanks
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13:37:07  <ZxBiohazardZx> shouldnt VS10 generate .exe as well?
13:38:21  <ZxBiohazardZx> ========== Build: 6 succeeded, 0 failed, 0 up-to-date, 1 skipped ==========
13:38:25  <ZxBiohazardZx> still no .exe :P
13:39:19  <Alberth> so it skiped building the exe? :p
13:39:25  <Alberth> *skipped
13:39:36  <ZxBiohazardZx> i dunno
13:39:46  <ZxBiohazardZx> doesnt show what is skipped for some fucked up reason
13:40:28  <ZxBiohazardZx> 4>------ Skipped Build: Project: generate, Configuration: Release Win32 ------
13:41:04  <andythenorth_> Can anyone confirm flickering fence bug with oil well firs 3015?
13:41:06  <Rubidium> isn't the .exe in the objs/release folder?
13:41:18  <ZxBiohazardZx> nope
13:41:24  <ZxBiohazardZx> its just non-existing
13:41:34  <ZxBiohazardZx> ill just manual build generate and then run rebuild
13:41:45  <ZxBiohazardZx> VS10 :)
13:42:08  <Zuu> ZxBiohazardZx: So OpenTTD doesn't start when you hit F5?
13:42:45  <Zuu> Try to select the openttd project from the project list if it's not selected.
13:42:48  <ZxBiohazardZx> Zuu 1 sec
13:44:45  <Alberth> 1 sec has passed.... :)
13:44:48  <ZxBiohazardZx> rebuilding atm
13:44:57  <ZxBiohazardZx> but no it doesnt
13:45:02  <ZxBiohazardZx> its selected
13:45:06  <ZxBiohazardZx> the problem is that it generates all shit
13:45:08  <ZxBiohazardZx> but no .exe
13:45:25  <ZxBiohazardZx> i get /objs/Win32/Release filled with alot
13:45:29  <ZxBiohazardZx> but no .exe
13:45:41  <Zuu> Do you build a release build or a debug build?
13:46:01  <ZxBiohazardZx> release
13:46:19  <ZxBiohazardZx> but i can build a debug if you want as well, /care
13:46:19  <Zuu> And you have the OpenTTD project selected in the solution?
13:46:23  <ZxBiohazardZx> yes
13:46:42  <Zuu> No its fine, I was just ensuring that you looked for the right build.
13:48:46  <Zuu> So what happens when you hit F5, does it start some program?
13:48:58  <Zuu> Eg. maybe its starting the strgen instead of openttd?
13:49:46  <ZxBiohazardZx> if i hit F5 it asks me to rebuild debug
13:49:47  <ZxBiohazardZx> 1 sec
13:50:03  <ZxBiohazardZx> i get an openttd window but it remains white and empty
13:50:06  <ZxBiohazardZx> epic
13:50:25  <Zuu> If F5 builds a debug version, then F7 will also bulid a debug edition.
13:50:36  <Zuu> In that case the .exe is found in /objs/Win32/Debug
13:51:03  <ZxBiohazardZx> nope no .exe in that folder
13:51:43  <ZxBiohazardZx> lemmy just clear up and try again
13:53:46  <Zuu> For the record I use VS2008 for compiling OpenTTD but 2010 should work too.
13:54:12  <Rubidium> the CF uses 2010
13:55:22  <ZxBiohazardZx> ah nvm i got it
13:55:26  <ZxBiohazardZx> cleanup helped
13:55:33  <ZxBiohazardZx> it just popped in the release dir
13:55:41  <ZxBiohazardZx> time to check the new bankruptcy behaviour
13:57:54  <planetmaker> ZxBiohazardZx, just take max loan, delete water. and wait. Easiest to get bancrupt that way ;-)
13:59:11  <Rubidium> or...
13:59:17  <Zuu> planetmaker: there is an AI, I think its AIAI that does that to sucide if it cannot make money.
13:59:33  <Rubidium> ... use the #openttdcoop setting for extremely expensive ships
13:59:39  <Rubidium> and buy one ship
14:01:21  <ZxBiohazardZx> planet no im doing 3 tests
14:01:31  <ZxBiohazardZx> 1 company should flag bankrupt on old scheme, but wont on new
14:01:36  <ZxBiohazardZx> 1 company always flags
14:01:41  <ZxBiohazardZx> and 1 company is in the plus
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14:01:56  <ZxBiohazardZx> the absolute bankrupt one just got flagged & warned
14:02:07  <ZxBiohazardZx> 01-06-2012 (month 6 in red)
14:04:07  <ZxBiohazardZx> takeover suggestion up on 10-08-2012 (month 8) (lolwut)
14:04:19  <NGC3982> Star trek and OpenTTD.
14:04:23  <NGC3982> What a morning.
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14:05:58  <ZxBiohazardZx> Bankrupt! 01-10-2012 (month 10?)
14:06:03  <ZxBiohazardZx> is that what you mean planet?
14:06:26  <NGC3982>
14:06:41  <Rubidium> that doesn't look like Star Trek
14:06:54  <planetmaker> NGC3982, looks like a connection problem (for the station, not the server)
14:07:14  <planetmaker> and... be more liberal in allowing straight travel
14:07:28  <ZxBiohazardZx> planetmaker what was your point when testing
14:07:29  <planetmaker> for the right station. Like you do for the left
14:07:35  <NGC3982> Take a peak at this. Im using ISR 0.8.1 and Swedish Rails 0.7.4.
14:07:36  <ZxBiohazardZx> the bankruptcy seems reasonable on my timeframe?
14:07:42  <NGC3982> planetmaker: Oh, i see.
14:08:09  <Rubidium> hmm... did NGC3982 have a wedding this morning to attend to?
14:08:14  <ZxBiohazardZx> 01-06-2012 its warned, on 01-08-2012 its up for purchase and on 01-10-2012 its sold
14:08:36  <planetmaker> sounds like a month early at least for sale, no?
14:08:41  <planetmaker> 6+3 = 9 in my book
14:08:42  <NGC3982> Rubidium: Galaxy systems to not invoke marriage.
14:09:07  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz true sale is 1 month short and complete sell is 2 months early
14:09:13  <ZxBiohazardZx> but i cant see why in the code :P
14:09:24  <ZxBiohazardZx> there is case 10: case11: break; case12:
14:09:34  <ZxBiohazardZx> it is almost as-if it ignores a break somewhere
14:09:49  <Alberth> saved all files? :p
14:09:56  <ZxBiohazardZx> ofc
14:10:10  <NGC3982> planetmaker: I guess that the rail mismatch is nothing more than incompability between the rail and the station tile NewGRF?
14:10:34  <planetmaker> it's iirc the station grf's fault
14:10:50  <NGC3982> The thing is, as i note on all the other ISR stations, most of them actually adept the rail NewGRF
14:11:05  <NGC3982> I see.
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14:13:33  <ZxBiohazardZx> 			/* FALL THROUGH to case 10... */
14:13:33  <ZxBiohazardZx> 		}
14:13:33  <ZxBiohazardZx> 		default:
14:13:37  <ZxBiohazardZx> is that the reason planet?
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14:13:45  <ZxBiohazardZx> aka why does it skip 1 case for some reason?
14:14:09  <ZxBiohazardZx> it works fine till case 6: but after that it seems to skip 1 month and another on bankruptdeclare
14:14:20  <ZxBiohazardZx> so 9 = 8 and 12 = 10
14:14:30  <Kjetil> If 6 was 9
14:14:52  <ZxBiohazardZx> nah 01-06 was the announcement for bankrupting
14:15:15  <ZxBiohazardZx> or is that maybe a hidden 5 :P
14:15:34  <ZxBiohazardZx> ill just bankrupt another and check
14:15:42  <planetmaker> I don't know your current code, so I can't comment
14:15:51  <ZxBiohazardZx> ill post it in a sec
14:16:03  <ZxBiohazardZx> lemmy just test another time bankrupting the other comp
14:16:31  <NGC3982> I have formulated an idea.
14:16:38  <ZxBiohazardZx> Negative Cash: 15-Jun-2013
14:16:51  <NGC3982> I shal't build us a train.
14:17:00  <NGC3982> With PMs face as front graphics.
14:17:12  <NGC3982> And it shal't inherit the earth
14:19:48  <ZxBiohazardZx> @planet updated my post
14:19:49  <NGC3982> Though
14:19:52  <ZxBiohazardZx>
14:20:11  <NGC3982> To be serious regarding my GRF mismatch issue. Can it be a factor of which NewGRF is added to the game first?
14:20:30  <NGC3982> The ISR is added before the rail-type.
14:20:43  <ZxBiohazardZx> no IRS ignores rail
14:21:04  <NGC3982> It obviosly uses it?
14:21:04  <ZxBiohazardZx> trouble: 01-oct-2013
14:21:51  <ZxBiohazardZx> Negative Cash: 15-06-2012, trouble: 01-10-2013
14:23:12  <planetmaker> I do believe that announcement of trouble is also off by one
14:23:19  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmhm
14:23:26  <ZxBiohazardZx> but then look at that patch, why?
14:23:30  <ZxBiohazardZx> is it ignoring breaks?
14:23:36  <ZxBiohazardZx> is my logics offset by 1?
14:24:39  <Alberth> use a debugger or print some output what is happening
14:25:00  <Alberth> otherwise you'll be random guessing forever.
14:25:42  <Rubidium> you already start with "months of bankruptcy" which counts the current month as well
14:25:59  <ZxBiohazardZx> darn you made me miss the exact time it offered me the takeover
14:26:17  <Rubidium> so if the negative cash triggers thinking about bankruptcy on 01-01-2000, then "months of bankruptcy" is already 1
14:26:39  <ZxBiohazardZx> bankrupt! 01-03-2014
14:26:46  <Rubidium> so after 5 months it reaches 6, i.e. 01-06-2000
14:26:46  <planetmaker> ZxBiohazardZx, news log tells you that time
14:26:53  <ZxBiohazardZx> so warning: 01-10-2013, bankrupt 01-03-2014
14:27:01  <ZxBiohazardZx> thats not 6 months, thats 5
14:27:37  <ZxBiohazardZx> but then why does it bankrupt after 10 and not after 11 :P
14:27:41  <ZxBiohazardZx> if your +1 is right
14:28:33  <ZxBiohazardZx> it counts Jun,July,August,Sept Okt Nov Dec Jan Feb March
14:28:40  <ZxBiohazardZx> makes 10
14:28:41  <ZxBiohazardZx> not 12
14:28:51  <Rubidium> also... previously the fall through triggered bankruptcy immediately if it had no value at quarter 3 by going to quarter 4 code (=remove company). However, you change it to break instead of jumping to the remove company clause
14:28:52  <ZxBiohazardZx> i expected bankrupt on 01-jun
14:29:32  <planetmaker> ZxBiohazardZx, I start in January. February is the first month counting. Thus bancrupcy thread should be issued on 1st July
14:29:55  <ZxBiohazardZx> if your negative in january (aka 30th jan your negative) then January counts
14:30:03  <ZxBiohazardZx> just as 30th april flagged you on old system
14:30:10  <planetmaker> I'm find on 1st January. and 1st of month is the date which counts
14:30:23  <ZxBiohazardZx> ah ok
14:30:26  <planetmaker> even the beginning of that day
14:30:29  <Rubidium> is the diff on the forum up-to-date?
14:30:36  <ZxBiohazardZx> yes its the exact one im using
14:30:42  <ZxBiohazardZx> the 3 combined that is
14:30:45  <ZxBiohazardZx> so 1+2+3
14:30:48  <ZxBiohazardZx> 3 is just the when
14:30:52  <ZxBiohazardZx> 1 and 2 alter the conditions
14:31:07  <ZxBiohazardZx> and seem to work fine btw, the other testcase pointed that out
14:31:17  <ZxBiohazardZx> though 2 might need bigger penalty for lazyness
14:31:27  <ZxBiohazardZx> anyway the issue is on 3: it seems to miscount the months
14:32:03  <Rubidium> first, make very clear what you want to count and how
14:32:30  <ZxBiohazardZx> i want to count the ammount of months a player cannot pay its absolute depts
14:32:32  <Rubidium> *if* I have no money on 01-01-2000 for the first time, when should the messages/bankruptcy come?
14:32:56  <Rubidium> message after 6 months, so 01-07?
14:33:06  <Rubidium> offer after 9 months, so 01-10?
14:33:19  <Rubidium> bankruptcy after 12 months, so 01-01-2001?
14:33:23  <ZxBiohazardZx> message on 01-07, offer for sale @ 01-09 and sell completely @ 01-01-2001
14:33:25  <ZxBiohazardZx> yes
14:33:39  <Rubidium> sale at 01-09 or 01-10?
14:33:42  <planetmaker> wrong... sale @ 1st Oct, and bancrupt at 1st Feb
14:33:47  <ZxBiohazardZx> eeehm
14:33:49  <planetmaker> *should*
14:34:02  <Rubidium> planetmaker: why in februari?
14:34:02  <planetmaker> 7+3+3
14:34:08  <ZxBiohazardZx> no planet for Rubidium picked bad cash on 01-01-2000 :P
14:34:21  <ZxBiohazardZx> so he will go down on 01-01-2001
14:34:47  <planetmaker> but check is at beginning of day. Thus you need to be bad already at end of 31st Dec
14:34:47  <Rubidium> so, with the current code 01-01-2000 will have months bankrupt = 1
14:34:49  <ZxBiohazardZx> and he should be up for sale on 01-09-2000 and he should be up for trouble @ 01-06-2000
14:35:08  <ZxBiohazardZx> if your balance is negative on 31 and 01 then yes
14:35:15  <Rubidium> que?
14:35:20  <Rubidium> really... what is it?
14:35:23  <planetmaker> currently, in 1.2.2, with first bad 1st of month being February 1st, we get the threat in  1st July, the offer to sale on 1st Oct.
14:35:27  <ZxBiohazardZx> if your negative on 31st december and 1st january
14:35:50  <Rubidium> no matter what it is now, what do you want?
14:35:59  <ZxBiohazardZx> we want old behaviour
14:36:07  <ZxBiohazardZx> well no
14:36:12  <ZxBiohazardZx> they want old behaviour :P
14:36:17  <ZxBiohazardZx> the reason to make it monthly
14:36:24  <ZxBiohazardZx> is to make it easier to escape bad luck factor
14:36:28  <Rubidium> old behaviour is: no money at 01-01, warning at 01-04, offer at 01-07 and bankrupt at 01-10
14:36:39  <ZxBiohazardZx> then that is expected new behaviour
14:36:53  <ZxBiohazardZx> the only reason we swapped to monthly is to reduce the "bad luck 3x" chance
14:37:01  <ZxBiohazardZx> as now you need "bad luck 9x" chance
14:37:02  <planetmaker> uhm, warning is at 6 months time, Rubidium
14:37:06  <ZxBiohazardZx> way more acceptable
14:37:08  <Rubidium> planetmaker: really?
14:37:10  <planetmaker> offer at 9 months. yes
14:37:18  <planetmaker> I tested 1.2.2
14:37:25  <ZxBiohazardZx> planet is right
14:37:28  <planetmaker> that's where I got the dates from
14:37:35  <ZxBiohazardZx> warn after 6, offer after 9, bankrupt at 12
14:38:06  <Rubidium> planetmaker: that does not fit with the code
14:38:15  <ZxBiohazardZx> old or new code :P
14:38:22  <Rubidium> old code
14:38:28  <ZxBiohazardZx> old code counted quarters
14:38:43  <ZxBiohazardZx> quarter0,1,2,3 and fallthrough 4
14:38:49  <Rubidium> quarter 0 is pointless
14:38:51  <ZxBiohazardZx> covering a year
14:38:55  <ZxBiohazardZx> well 0 is the reset ofc
14:39:25  <Rubidium> entering CompanyCheckBankrupt you can never have a negative number, thus by the time you reach the switch the value must be >= 1
14:39:50  <Rubidium> in case #2 (the second begin of quarter with no money) you get the warning
14:40:03  <Rubidium> in case #3 (the third begin of quarter with no money) you get the offer
14:40:15  <Rubidium> in case #4 (the fourth quarter with no money) you are bankrupt
14:40:17  <planetmaker> Rubidium, yes, 1st check doesn't trigger anything. 2nd check does trigger warning, 3rd triggers sale
14:40:32  <planetmaker> but as quarters are fixed, you can go 6 months in debt without getting a warning
14:40:40  <planetmaker> 6 months - 1 tick
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14:41:19  <Rubidium> so, *if* I have no money at 01-01-2000, then at 04-01-2000 you get the warning, 07-01-2000 the offer and 10-01-2000 you are bankrupt
14:41:36  <Rubidium> as 01-01-2000 is quarter/case #1
14:41:43  <Rubidium> 04-01-2000 is quarter/case #2
14:41:46  <Rubidium> etc.
14:41:48  <planetmaker> yes, agreed. Beginning of 1/1/2000
14:42:08  <Rubidium> so the question is, what do you want in the end result?
14:42:47  <Rubidium> when you migrate to months
14:42:50  <ZxBiohazardZx> the end result is exactly the same as currently
14:43:05  <ZxBiohazardZx> the only reason we migrate is that it is way easier to escape it when you are positive again
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14:43:52  <ZxBiohazardZx> aka if* you are negative on 01-01-2000 and positive on any other date untill you are again negative (unlucky you) on 04-01-2000
14:43:59  <ZxBiohazardZx> well you get my point i hope
14:43:59  <Rubidium> in that case: warning in months_of_bankruptcy == 4, offer in month_of_bankruptcy == 7 and bankrupt in month_of_bankruptcy = 10
14:44:03  <ZxBiohazardZx> it removes the bad luck chance
14:44:19  <planetmaker> remove? No. Reduce? Yes
14:44:30  <ZxBiohazardZx> nah removes planet
14:44:45  <ZxBiohazardZx> the chance you are unlucky 9x in a row is horrible financial management
14:44:46  <planetmaker> oh, the reset. yes
14:44:55  <planetmaker> missed that line, sorry
14:44:59  <ZxBiohazardZx> :P
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14:45:29  <ZxBiohazardZx> so ok with that said, ==4 ==7 and ==10 is the result im getting on that piece of shitcode posted
14:45:41  <ZxBiohazardZx> aka it ignores some cases, but does end up on right timeframes no?
14:45:43  <Rubidium> ZxBiohazardZx: why? I have gone bankrupt with a really profitable company, I was just expanding so fast I built stuff whenever I was positive. Thus I never had money on the bank, but a very healthy cash flow
14:45:49  <planetmaker> 3, 6 and 9 seems more reasonable then :-)
14:46:02  <ZxBiohazardZx> 01-10-2013: Trouble!  01-03-2014: Bankrupt!
14:46:18  <ZxBiohazardZx> thats 5 months gap
14:46:22  <ZxBiohazardZx> weird shit is weird
14:46:37  <ZxBiohazardZx> so looking at that Code i posted, why is it not doing 4/7/10?
14:46:56  <planetmaker> you count 0-based but calculate 1-based
14:47:14  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmz
14:47:18  <ZxBiohazardZx> ok fair enough
14:47:23  <Rubidium> planetmaker: they are reasonable. However, as I mentioned before: >= 1 means there has been a month with too little money, i.e. 1 is the first month you have no money
14:47:24  <ZxBiohazardZx> so change values
14:47:45  <Rubidium> making it 3, then you will get the warning after two months (+1 tick) of having no money
14:48:10  <ZxBiohazardZx> sp 4/7/10 effectively is 3/6/9
14:48:18  <ZxBiohazardZx> also while on economy.cpp Rubidium
14:48:23  <ZxBiohazardZx> have a look on the interest function
14:48:28  <ZxBiohazardZx> on the unchanged file
14:48:42  <ZxBiohazardZx> why the fuck is that : expenses other (station maintenance?) under that function?
14:48:43  * Rubidium has no interest in interest
14:49:06  <ZxBiohazardZx> SubtractMoneyFromCompany(CommandCost(EXPENSES_OTHER, _price[PR_STATION_VALUE] >> 2));
14:49:07  <ZxBiohazardZx> haha
14:49:11  <ZxBiohazardZx> ok fair point
14:49:16  <ZxBiohazardZx> let it rot is fine
14:49:52  <Rubidium> it's the cost you pay to the 'house of commerce' or whatever it's called to register yourself as a company
14:49:56  <ZxBiohazardZx> warning == 4, sale == 7, bankrupt == 10 right?
14:50:00  <ZxBiohazardZx> ah cool
14:50:10  <ZxBiohazardZx> not documented but cool
14:50:25  <Rubidium> then add that documentation ;)
14:50:34  <ZxBiohazardZx> so case4: warn case7:offersale case10: bankrupt?
14:51:03  <Rubidium> yes, fallthrough from case 7 to case 10. NOT to case 8/9
14:51:59  <ZxBiohazardZx> how do i make it fallthrough?
14:52:00  <ZxBiohazardZx> XD
14:52:20  <Rubidium> by placing the cases directly under eachother with no other cases in between
14:52:29  <ZxBiohazardZx> k
14:52:30  <Rubidium> so case 8/9 must not be between 7 and 10
14:52:51  <ZxBiohazardZx> so we have case 0: case 1: case 2: case3: break;
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14:52:58  <ZxBiohazardZx> case 4: warn the company
14:53:18  <ZxBiohazardZx> case 5: case 6: break; case 7: offer for sale
14:53:35  <ZxBiohazardZx> case 8: bankrupt
14:53:41  <ZxBiohazardZx> but then it will bankrput too early
14:53:47  <ZxBiohazardZx> so 8/9 have to be empty no?
14:54:02  <Rubidium> cases don't need to be ordered
14:54:19  <ZxBiohazardZx> ah ok so i can add 8 and 9 after 10
14:54:41  <Rubidium> I'd do: case 0,1,2,3,5,6,8,9: break; case 4: warn; break; case 7: offset; break; default: case 10: bankrupt; break;
14:55:02  <Rubidium> uhm... without the break after 7, so:
14:55:06  <ZxBiohazardZx> haha
14:55:11  <Rubidium> case 0,1,2,3,5,6,8,9: break; case 4: warn; break; case 7: offset; default: case 10: bankrupt; break;
14:55:23  <planetmaker> and s/offset/offer/ ;-)
14:56:11  <ZxBiohazardZx>
14:56:15  <ZxBiohazardZx> like so?
14:57:32  <planetmaker> I think so. But... I'd add the blank lines :-)
14:58:01  <ZxBiohazardZx> blank lines?
14:58:22  <ZxBiohazardZx> ah to make clear there is a gap
14:58:32  <ZxBiohazardZx> so 3 blank 5...
15:00:11  <ZxBiohazardZx>
15:00:21  <ZxBiohazardZx> like so (not blank, but commentlines work just as well)
15:00:46  <TinoDidriksen> Comment works even better.
15:07:14  <Eddi|zuHause> so, why do all these "blank" cases, instead of making "default: break;" and only do 7 and 10 special?
15:08:05  <planetmaker> good question, Eddi|zuHause  :-)
15:08:09  <planetmaker> +1
15:09:16  <ZxBiohazardZx> cause eeehm
15:09:22  <ZxBiohazardZx> dunno actually
15:09:26  <ZxBiohazardZx> ill do that
15:09:36  <ZxBiohazardZx> so default: break; case 4: bla etc?
15:09:50  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
15:10:46  <ZxBiohazardZx>
15:10:48  <ZxBiohazardZx> like that?
15:10:49  <ZxBiohazardZx> ok nice
15:12:04  <ZxBiohazardZx> brb gone shopping for food
15:16:16  <TinoDidriksen> default really should be the last case. It's not invalid to have it earlier, but people expect it last.
15:16:43  <NGC3982> Spock dies!
15:18:50  <planetmaker> yes
15:20:33  <NGC3982> Of all the souls i have encountered in my travels
15:20:39  <NGC3982> His was the most ..human.
15:20:43  <NGC3982> Oy vey.
15:21:59  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: et al: because we want to use the default for > 10 months (in case the company should be bankrupt, but didn't go bankrupt because of occupancy in single player)
15:23:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: then clamp the counter to 10
15:23:39  <Eddi|zuHause> or use an if/else chain
15:26:27  <Eddi|zuHause> TinoDidriksen: i don't see a problem with having default as first
15:26:35  * andythenorth has some advice
15:26:40  <andythenorth> waste your time wisely
15:26:45  <andythenorth> if you have kids, you won't have it :P
15:27:27  <Eddi|zuHause> does that apply to neices and nephews as well?
15:28:38  <andythenorth> no
15:37:41  * andythenorth needs to solve this FIRS issue
15:38:10  <andythenorth> with flickering fences
15:38:29  <andythenorth> it is not possible while the baby is eating lego pieces
15:38:34  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz so put default on end?
15:40:12  <andythenorth> hmm
15:40:23  <andythenorth> oil well not using the fence switches
15:40:25  <andythenorth> jackpot
15:41:30  <ZxBiohazardZx> quick reboot brb
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15:47:00  <andythenorth> Yexo: planetmaker reckon the fence check can detect farm fields adjacent?  Got double fences... :)
15:52:38  <planetmaker> I recon it can't
15:53:55  <planetmaker> would need TILE_CLASS_FIELD which doesn't exist ;-)
15:55:49  <planetmaker> yes, also checking specs, I see no way
16:01:26  <andythenorth> ta
16:02:09  <andythenorth> fenced building or no fence?
16:04:35  <Kjetil> Depends.. are the oil wells in south africa ?
16:05:03  <andythenorth> I don't think there's a game var I can check for that o_O
16:05:40  * andythenorth wonders if nml can get at the L5 bits of landscape class in the tile graphics chain
16:06:38  <Eddi|zuHause> "the good news: openoffice is used in 228 countries. the bad news: there aren't even that many countries"
16:06:48  <NGC3982> ;-)
16:06:57  <NGC3982> I like OpenOffice.
16:07:13  <NGC3982> Amount of usable software per currency spent is fantastic.
16:07:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i thought people use libreoffice nowadays
16:07:22  <NGC3982> Though, i prefer Office as it is.
16:07:32  <NGC3982> I thought Libreoffice == OpenOffice
16:08:02  <Eddi|zuHause> only if you think USA == british empire
16:08:11  <NGC3982> I do!
16:08:13  <andythenorth> var 60 can probably get at those landscape bits
16:08:56  <Kjetil> Why do you speek of these vars in numerical form. Why don't they have symbolic names ?
16:09:08  <Eddi|zuHause> since oracle took over, openoffice is Evil(tm)
16:10:01  <andythenorth> yes, they have names like 'var 60'
16:10:19  <andythenorth> written as '60' in nfo ;)
16:10:19  <Eddi|zuHause> there is no "var60" in nml
16:10:40  <Kjetil> andythenorth: that's a poor name
16:10:55  <andythenorth> well
16:11:03  <andythenorth> there are limits to the names available :)
16:11:17  <Eddi|zuHause> besides, even in nfo, "var 60" does not name a variable. the variable's name is "feature X var Y"
16:11:18  <Alberth> Kjetil: in NFO everything is a hexadecimal number :p
16:11:46  <Kjetil> then you can have fun names like babecafe etc :P
16:12:03  <andythenorth> could use escapes
16:12:16  <Eddi|zuHause> Kjetil: i never quite got what was so funny about that
16:12:22  <andythenorth> teach grfcodec all the names?
16:12:55  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the grf specs have "human" names for variables
16:13:02  <Kjetil> Eddi|zuHause: well.. it one of the few "words" that can be spell with hex in a 32-bit var
16:13:21  <Kjetil> spelled*
16:13:22  <Alberth> Kjetil: too bad NFO is mostly 8 bit :)
16:13:31  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I was thinking just teach grfcodec the nml var names, as escapes ;)
16:13:47  <Alberth> \v60 :p
16:13:50  <andythenorth> then nml users can switch to fnfo easily :P
16:13:51  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: use a preprocessor ;)
16:14:07  <Terkhen> why should nml users want to switch to nfo? :P
16:14:07  <andythenorth> he
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16:14:51  <Kjetil> Alberth: kill it with fire then
16:15:35  * andythenorth still thinks about nml in nfo terms
16:15:38  <andythenorth> which seems to work fine
16:15:48  <andythenorth> wrt vars, cbs etc
16:17:20  <andythenorth> so nml var 'nearby_tile_class' can't get the landscape bits
16:17:33  <andythenorth> presumaby nml can access arbitrary 80+ vars?
16:18:19  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
16:18:38  <Eddi|zuHause> var[num, shift, mask, param]
16:18:51  <Eddi|zuHause> leave out param for non-60 vars
16:19:22  <Eddi|zuHause> and put in a request at the tracker for your specific use case, to get a named variable
16:22:47  <andythenorth> or patch nml? o_O
16:24:21  <Eddi|zuHause> still means you have to put the patch at the tracker
16:24:42  <andythenorth> or get shouted at for committing ;)
16:25:00  <Eddi|zuHause> but yes, adding a variable is semi-trivial ;)
16:25:07  <andythenorth> can someone decide which of these I should use please
16:26:23  <NGC3982> The first.
16:26:25  <Eddi|zuHause> second looks more consistent
16:26:30  <planetmaker> andythenorth, which NFO var will then tell you that a tile is a farm field (or pondering something else)?
16:27:17  <andythenorth> planetmaker: var 60 *might* if it get at the correct L5 bits
16:27:32  <andythenorth> it only has a nibble afaict though
16:27:49  * andythenorth finds the spec page for you
16:28:13  <andythenorth>
16:28:31  <andythenorth> second nibble (c)
16:28:48  <planetmaker> that's the landscape calss
16:28:50  <planetmaker> *class
16:28:55  <planetmaker> you get than in NML, too
16:29:03  <andythenorth> can we get the L5 bits though?
16:29:05  <planetmaker> that's why I said it needs TILE_CLASS_FIELDS
16:29:06  <andythenorth> or just the class only
16:29:35  <planetmaker> you get the tile class. Not a class's bits
16:29:42  <andythenorth> I'm reading it as class only
16:30:08  <planetmaker> me, too
16:30:34  <andythenorth> so we can't use var 60
16:30:50  <andythenorth> has to be an 80+ var
16:30:57  <andythenorth> too long since andythenorth has done this in nfo :P
16:31:09  <andythenorth> used to do this a lot :P
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16:32:54  <andythenorth> here's a picture of the issue:
16:33:03  <andythenorth> I could file it away under 'edge case' and leave it alone
16:36:49  <planetmaker> I'd suggest to do exactly that ;-)
16:37:23  <andythenorth> it's the kind of thing Yexo likes to fix sometimes ;)
16:37:44  <andythenorth> it's 4 extra var checks in the fences switch
16:37:50  <andythenorth> it can wait ;)
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16:46:00  <andythenorth> hmm
16:46:03  <andythenorth> could use a half fence
16:46:07  <andythenorth> or fence with gate
16:46:17  <andythenorth> probly overkill
16:54:11  <Prof_Frink> Careful, someone might take a fence.
16:56:48  <andythenorth> :P
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17:01:47  <Terkhen> heh :P
17:03:19  <andythenorth> 4 industries converted
17:03:26  <andythenorth> only 45 left to do
17:07:49  <supermop> what are you doing? adding fences?
17:09:14  <Terkhen> he is giving FIRS another code conversion :P
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17:13:18  <Eddi|zuHause> is it going to be called FIRS 3.x then? :)
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17:15:50  <NGC3982> FIRS EXTRA(tm).
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17:16:36  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I'd like FIRST 0.1 better ;)
17:23:29  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I think FIRS 2 should come before FIRS 3 :P
17:23:59  <andythenorth> it takes about 1.5 days to convert each industry
17:24:08  <andythenorth> @calc 45 * 1.5
17:24:08  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 67.5
17:24:17  <andythenorth> how many days left until christmas?
17:24:27  <Rubidium> you'll be done before 1.3.0-beta2 ;)
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17:24:59  <andythenorth> oh goody :P
17:25:11  <Rubidium> andythenorth: sadly only 66 days until Christmas
17:25:15  <Rubidium> unless...
17:26:31  <Rubidium> you mean Armenian (78), Ethopian (79) or Eastern Orthodox (79) Christmas
17:27:01  <andythenorth> ho ho ho
17:32:50  <Prof_Frink> Or 431. Plenty of time.
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17:42:45  <Eddi|zuHause> german christmas starts on the eve of the 24th, while british christmas starts on the morning of the 25th
17:43:26  <Eddi|zuHause> the british royal family celebrates the german christmas, for obvious reasons :)
17:45:21  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24616 /trunk/src/lang (latvian.txt spanish.txt) (2012-10-20 17:45:13 UTC)
17:45:22  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:23  <DorpsGek> latvian - 3 changes by Parastais
17:45:24  <DorpsGek> spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
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17:59:34  <andythenorth> so converting an industry only takes ~60 minutes
17:59:46  <andythenorth> 1/3 of which is spent waiting for nml to compile tests
17:59:55  <andythenorth> the remaining 35 hours are spent holding children
18:00:06  <andythenorth> anybody want to help? :P
18:08:56  * Terkhen is not that good with children
18:10:54  <andythenorth> hmm
18:10:59  <andythenorth> that industry took 10 mins only :P
18:11:04  <andythenorth> including compiling and reading forums :P
18:11:25  <Kjetil> was it at brothel ?
18:19:10  <Terkhen> :)
18:21:42  <andythenorth> 8 industries done
18:21:53  <andythenorth> @calc 41 * 1.5
18:21:53  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 61.5
18:22:05  <andythenorth> might be done by christmas :P
18:24:01  <TyrHeimdal> |hmmm
18:24:34  <TyrHeimdal> Is it possible to say "load cargo X" in a goto order?
18:24:45  <Kjetil> Are you making a chrimasthemed grf ? :P
18:25:07  <TyrHeimdal> so to make it ONLY load that cargo type?
18:25:44  <andythenorth> it will only load what it is refitted to
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18:27:08  <TyrHeimdal> this is my idea: trains has x oil cars and one engineering supply car. carry oil from a dock to refinery, pick up eng.sup. at the refinery and go back to the dock to unload eng.sup and pick up oil
18:27:26  <TyrHeimdal> at the dock I want a helipad with a chopper to pick up eng.sup. and deliver to oil rigs
18:27:41  <andythenorth> full load any cargo
18:27:41  <TyrHeimdal> but the trains, pick up the eng.sup. from the docks again :P
18:27:45  <andythenorth> not full load all
18:27:56  <andythenorth> ah
18:28:02  <andythenorth> yeah, you've got a transfer problem
18:28:06  <TyrHeimdal> indeed
18:28:16  <andythenorth> the only way to solve that is autorefit the eng sup vehicles to something else
18:28:22  <TyrHeimdal> ottd is missing an "load x only" option  :D
18:28:29  <andythenorth> known issue
18:28:37  <andythenorth> ask alberth about increasingly complicated orders :P
18:28:50  <Alberth> it's missing a lot of orders
18:28:54  <TyrHeimdal> hehe
18:29:45  <Kjetil> TyrHeimdal: you could separate your dock into to seperate stations and unload at eng.sup at one and load oil at the other
18:29:49  <Alberth> the current biggest problem is a nice gui to specify it all
18:30:15  <TyrHeimdal> Kjetil: yeah
18:30:26  <Alberth> where usually you should have to specify very little
18:30:34  <TyrHeimdal> but i think I'll just do a separate train dedicated to eng-sup. transport to the docks
18:37:34  <andythenorth> so MB sent me a link to a thread with 'views' for vehicles discussed
18:37:43  <andythenorth> that could be one way to handle liveries and such
18:40:02  <andythenorth>
18:49:39  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: problems are not solved by sticking a name on something
18:50:40  <andythenorth> there is spec discussion in that thread
18:52:47  <andythenorth> some
18:53:07  <andythenorth> I think this one gets filed under 'meh' doesn't it :P
18:53:55  <andythenorth> the whole issue ;)
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18:57:17  <NGC3982> Was that your review of Prometheus?
18:57:20  <NGC3982> ;-)
18:58:17  <andythenorth> @calc 38 / 49
18:58:17  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.775510204082
19:08:06  <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: what was wrong with that?
19:09:38  <NGC3982> By far the worst of the movies i have encountered so far.
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19:19:12  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the problem was that we did not get to a consensus of what everyone actually wanted
19:19:32  <andythenorth> ah that old problem :)
19:19:45  <andythenorth> that apparently blocks improved vehicle smoke too :)
19:21:05  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a grf coder's view, a grf designer's view, a patch dev's view and an openttd dev's view, and the overlap of each was not very large
19:21:31  <Eddi|zuHause> we need views on views :p
19:22:05  <andythenorth> ha
19:22:33  <andythenorth> one interesting point is that maybe liveries and subtypes are *both* separate from adjusting vehicle stats
19:30:38  <Eddi|zuHause> adjusting stats is cb36, which can react on any data available through variables
19:31:35  <andythenorth> that is not 100% a good thing ;)
19:31:44  <andythenorth> there are dangers :P
19:37:17  <planetmaker> that summary of views on views is sadly quite accurate, Eddi|zuHause :S
19:40:38  <andythenorth> seems these things usually get resolved not by talking, but by one dev committing something nobody has heard about :P
19:41:52  <planetmaker> oh, the talking can be the pre-requisite, though, andythenorth :-)
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19:47:19  <NGC3982> Is there any possibility to stop time?
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19:47:32  <Wolf01> I would like it too
19:47:48  <NGC3982> I could definetly play a server game on the same year, forever.
19:48:51  <Ammler> I had once a patch to make constant MAX_YEAR a setting
19:51:56  <Alberth> we have such a year :)
19:52:09  <Ammler> http://
19:53:24  <Ammler> might be a bit old, but you got the idea :-P
19:54:32  <Ammler> I really should disable that broken firefox feature (hide http)
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19:58:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i never understood why a patch that simple wouldn't be included
19:59:42  <Eddi|zuHause> changing the setting from 5.000.000 to 1950 by clicking may be tedious though :p
19:59:55  <Eddi|zuHause> needs a logarithmic delta
20:00:46  <Ammler> yeah, the comment from peter1138 is a bit silly
20:01:09  <Eddi|zuHause> indeed
20:08:05  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: double click, and edit the year in 'generate game' :)
20:08:36  <Ammler> you might confuse another setting
20:08:44  <Ammler> end_year maybe
20:12:24  <Ammler> oh, you mean gui gui :-)
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20:15:48  <Ammler> I would not think, it needs to be gui setting, at least not for configure start game
20:20:03  <Eddi|zuHause> why should it not be a GUI setting?
20:22:17  <Ammler> I meant part of the start game wizard
20:24:15  <Eddi|zuHause> that may be debatable. but "GUI option" means "in the advanced settings"
20:30:27  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: how would a logarithmic delta work?
20:30:27  <andythenorth> 13 out 49 industries converted :P
20:30:32  <NGC3982> :o
20:30:43  <NGC3982> SFIRS?
20:30:58  <andythenorth> ?
20:31:43  <Rubidium> though it seems like a lazy man's day length patch
20:32:28  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i mean something like the step size changes for each round(log(n)) or so
20:33:01  <NGC3982> Soylent FIRS.
20:33:02  <NGC3982> :D?
20:34:11  <andythenorth> soylent
20:34:23  <andythenorth> it never gets old, no matter how many times it's mentioned :P
20:36:49  <Rubidium> oh... do I see a new word to learn there? What does it mean?
20:39:27  <NGC3982> andythenorth: :D
20:39:51  <NGC3982> Rubidium: Soylent Green is a horror/thriller movie with Charlton Heston.
20:40:03  <andythenorth> I think he knows :P
20:40:08  <NGC3982> Oh.
20:40:11  * andythenorth will be surprised if he doesn't
20:40:18  <andythenorth> given that it's discussed here every 5 days or so :P
20:40:33  <Eddi|zuHause> hehe :)
20:40:34  <NGC3982> :D
20:40:40  <Rubidium> well, I take a day off every 5 days it seems
20:40:46  <NGC3982> In soviet russia, Charlton Heston plays you!
20:40:55  <Rubidium> or rather, when there's lots of backlog I don't bother to read it
20:40:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely remember seeing that movie on tv once
20:41:20  <Eddi|zuHause> my brother is much into old scifi movies like that
20:42:35  <Rubidium> oh, it was released on laserdisc
20:42:59  <Eddi|zuHause> red or blue laser?
20:43:16  <Rubidium> 780 nm
20:43:51  <Rubidium> the whole 30 cm of diameter ;)
20:45:08  <Rubidium> blu ray is only 405 nm at 12 cm
20:46:55  <Rubidium> from ~15s ;)
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20:47:26  <andythenorth> wish these .pyc files would hide themselves :P
20:47:41  <planetmaker> ~/.hgignore
20:47:50  <andythenorth> doesn't hide them in finder ;)
20:47:59  <planetmaker> true :-)
20:48:13  <andythenorth> there's probably a plist somewhere
20:49:56  <andythenorth> 14 industries converted
20:49:59  * andythenorth -> bed :P
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21:17:48  <Terkhen> good night
21:25:45  <planetmaker> good night, Terkhen
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21:33:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: sounds like this was before video compression
21:34:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: it explains the word "compact disk" though :)
21:37:08  * NGC3982 is on the last of the Kirk Star Trek movies.
21:57:39  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r24617 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2012-10-20 21:57:33 UTC)
21:57:40  <DorpsGek> -Change: Only bankrupt, if you have negative money considering you took max loan (ZxBiohazardZx)
21:58:53  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r24618 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2012-10-20 21:58:48 UTC)
21:58:54  <DorpsGek> -Feature: Pay interest also on a negative cash value (ZxBioHazardZx)
22:05:32  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r24619 /trunk/src (7 files in 3 dirs) (2012-10-20 22:05:26 UTC)
22:05:33  <DorpsGek> -Change: Check for bankruptcy on a monthly basis (ZxBioHazardZx)
22:07:46  <Markk> I've played OTTD since 2005 now, tried quite a lot of NewGRFs, but today was the first some I've tried FIRS.
22:08:32  <Markk> I don't know if I like it, it's a bit too complex. OTTD itself is a bit complex, which I love, but I find this a bit extreme.
22:08:50  <planetmaker> FIRS is easy - once you understand how it works :-)
22:09:02  <planetmaker> for a starter you could disregard any supplies
22:09:33  <Markk> Mkay.
22:09:42  <FLHerne> Markk: No-one said you had to use the whole thing at once ;-)
22:09:58  <Markk> FLHerne: Haha, but it's hard to know what I should use.
22:10:08  <planetmaker> (supplies only help primary industries grow and secondaries to work more efficiently. But you can ignore them)
22:10:11  <FLHerne> Try starting with something simple (iron/coal to a steel mill?) and then gradually add more flows
22:10:41  <Markk> At the moment I'm moving coal and iron ore to a steel mill, and moving metal to a timber yard and them moving engineering and building supplies to the coal mine again.
22:10:46  <planetmaker> Markk, and you know of the industry chain view, yes?
22:10:52  <Markk> planetmaker: Yes.
22:10:54  <planetmaker> good :-)
22:10:56  <Markk> planetmaker: That helped me quite a bit.
22:11:00  <planetmaker> without it... I'd be lost, too ;-)
22:11:27  <Markk> I'm aware of nearly all of the OpenTTD features (I'm using PBS in the correct way and such).
22:11:47  <Markk> And then just a bit of oil to an oil refinery.
22:11:53  <Markk> Also some PAX.
22:12:30  <planetmaker> so how does station acceptance work, both, delivery and acceptance? ;-)
22:12:54  <planetmaker> which areas, which industries will deliver or accept? :D
22:12:59  <NGC3982>
22:13:04  <NGC3982> Late night baking.
22:13:08  <NGC3982> Who's up for a slice.
22:13:12  <Markk> What I find the most confusing is that you can deliver goods to so many different industries.
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22:14:28  <Markk> planetmaker: I'm vanilla OpenTTD I know how that works.
22:14:33  <Markk> planetmaker: But not in FIRS.
22:14:45  <Markk> planetmaker: FIRS seems really neat though!
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22:14:55  <planetmaker> Markk, there's nothing a newgrf can change station acceptance / delivery rules
22:15:35  <Markk> planetmaker: How do you mean then?
22:15:52  <planetmaker> I mean: rules for stations don't change with FIRS. Nor any newgrf
22:16:01  <Markk> No, not that.
22:16:13  <Markk> Your first question. :)
22:16:15  <planetmaker> It was just a kidding test for you... station coverage rules are anything but simple.
22:16:33  <planetmaker> And I was challanging you to explain them to me ;-)
22:16:52  <planetmaker> OpenTTD internals 211 or so ;-)
22:17:42  <FLHerne> planetmaker: How about the FIRS acceptance rating hacking?
22:17:57  <planetmaker> that's only the station rating. Not the acceptance or delivery
22:18:27  <FLHerne> Well, it affects acceptance to a degree :P
22:18:31  <planetmaker> And I only meant: which area does a station accept cargo from. Which industries around a station does it allow cargo delivery to. And under which conditions does it change
22:18:39  <FLHerne> Fair enough
22:18:44  <planetmaker> no, doesn't change acceptance. Only amount of delivered stuff
22:19:25  <NGC3982>
22:19:38  <Markk> planetmaker: Ah :)
22:19:39  <NGC3982> My symmetry is crap.
22:19:51  <NGC3982> Although, i must say FIRS+ISR is fantastic.
22:20:02  <NGC3982> If Andy was awake, id give him a kiss.
22:20:03  <planetmaker> firs + chips is great, too
22:20:30  <FLHerne> planetmaker	: I would consider 'amount of stuff accepted' to be acceptance :P
22:21:19  <planetmaker> so, which industries around a station can an industry be in to allow delivery?
22:21:28  <Eddi|zuHause> your engines and wagons don't really fit together
22:21:32  <planetmaker> and from which tiles do they deliver themselves? ;-)
22:21:44  <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, i know.
22:22:31  <Eddi|zuHause> is that one of those nohab electrics?
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22:23:07  <NGC3982> A what?
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22:23:35  <Eddi|zuHause> nohab was a swedish locomotive factory
22:25:14  <NGC3982> Ah, yes. I think so.
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22:26:21  <Eddi|zuHause> and after WWII it built an american-designed diesel engine which only was sold to railways outside sweden, and a few prototypes of electric engines which were used in sweden
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23:30:02  <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: I see.
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23:49:29  <Nat_aS> Fish and chips?
23:50:41  <NGC3982> Indeed.
23:53:27  <Wolf01> 'nighty night
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