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00:16:31 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23:44 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@p4FEDCB2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Sturmi] 00:49:08 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B9E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:04 *** Devroush36 [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 01:10:47 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:24:36 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:33:47 <Supercheese> Hot damn, one of the biggest lightning strikes I've ever seen just happened 01:33:51 <Supercheese> surprised the power's still on 01:57:49 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4057.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02:48 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-009-040.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 02:18:05 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 03:21:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.160.7] has joined #openttd 03:27:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A184.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:28:15 *** efess [~Efess@ool-18bfeb53.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:22:00 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 04:55:50 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.100.214] has joined #openttd 05:21:27 *** efess [~Efess@ool-18bfeb53.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #openttd 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD477B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:56:20 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4B34.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:09:01 *** tycoondemon2 [tycoondemo@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 06:13:58 *** tycoondemon [tycoondemo@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:44:19 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 07:04:44 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153EF4C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:12:42 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 07:37:58 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-189.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 07:43:18 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-189.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:43:22 *** DDR_ is now known as DDR 07:44:42 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153EF4C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 08:03:56 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 08:18:01 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 08:28:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:29:47 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-189.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 08:30:29 <andythenorth> bonsoir 08:35:40 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-189.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:35:42 *** DDR_ is now known as DDR 08:37:19 <Rubidium> bonnuit ;) 08:51:36 <dihedral> oi 08:55:57 <Terkhen> good morning 09:02:08 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:02:11 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:25:33 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:32:34 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 09:34:43 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-87-10.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:41:55 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-108-254.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:50:08 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 09:51:54 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 10:09:20 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host115-94-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 10:09:27 <Alberth> o/ Wolf01 10:09:32 <Wolf01> hello :D 10:10:33 <Wolf01> finally I was able to change the steam client scrollbars width 10:10:58 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 10:11:05 <Terkhen> linux or windows? :P 10:11:17 <Alberth> true 10:11:35 <Wolf01> windows 10:11:41 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 10:12:27 <Wolf01> I set the OS scrollbar size to 30px, but steam still had that 19px one, but moved 11px away from the border 10:12:45 <Alberth> lol 10:13:17 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:13:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause> now someone solve my problem with logging in to steam... :/ 10:14:43 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 10:15:00 <Eddi|zuHause> it works on windows in a vm, and in linux, but not in wine (anymore)... it's like it's opening a connection, but then not transferring anything 10:15:49 <Wolf01> I know wine has some problems with connections 10:16:05 <Terkhen> the last time I tried to use steam on wine I did not run into any problems; I was going to set it up later 10:16:13 <Wolf01> I have the same problem with a photo printing software on wine 10:18:43 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it worked before 10:18:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and i tried older versions of wine, and it didn't help 10:19:19 <Eddi|zuHause> so it seems to be something on my system that is screwed up 10:19:25 <Eddi|zuHause> but a clean prefix didn't help either 10:21:35 <Wolf01> mine too worked before, but now.. meh 10:31:48 *** NOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-25-84.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 10:35:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:37:28 <Alberth> o/ andy 10:38:58 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-87-10.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:44:17 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.76.122] has joined #openttd 10:45:40 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:54:27 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:56:44 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: steam on wine does not even show strings for me, so I cannot check if I have the same problem or not 10:56:53 <Terkhen> I'll try to fix that later 10:56:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: start with -no-dwrite 10:57:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: or disable dwrite.dll 10:57:36 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a known problem :) 10:58:47 <Terkhen> oh, ok, thanks :) 10:59:54 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00bb03.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:00:31 <Terkhen> "Steam is having problems connecting to the Steam servers" <-- I got this message, but at the second attempt I managed to log in 11:00:35 <Terkhen> it seems to be working fine 11:00:55 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, nobody else seems to have the problem 11:01:09 <Eddi|zuHause> so nobody can help solve it :/ 11:01:25 <Terkhen> :( 11:01:43 <Wolf01> did you try to install additional components such the vc runtimes with winetricks? 11:02:17 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i have all those. 11:06:48 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: btw. the vehicle pool was increased from 64k to 1M 11:06:56 <Eddi|zuHause> ah 11:07:01 <Eddi|zuHause> but he said 1.1.1 :) 11:07:22 <frosch123> well, does not matter; i doubt he manages to compile 11:18:14 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 11:20:30 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-189.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:23:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 11:25:47 <TrueBrain> Terkhen: I even get that problem on Windows from time to time .. first time it cannot connect, next time it works just fine ... stupid Steam :( 11:26:32 <Terkhen> given that kind of errors, let's see if they manage to make it work on linux :P 11:26:50 <TrueBrain> define 'work' :D 11:27:02 <Terkhen> I got the beta a few days ago; yesterday I set everything up just to find that steam games do not like bumblebee 11:27:11 <Terkhen> "I can open a game and play" 11:29:23 <MNIM> hmmmh, speaking of steam 11:29:32 <MNIM> how's the announced port coming along? 11:30:13 <Terkhen> it runs fine on my integrated graphics card, but of course 3D intensive games are slow and barely playable 11:30:52 <Terkhen> when I try to run steam on the dedicated graphics card, it is not able to launch any game because it overwrites some system variable that bumblebee wants to use too 11:31:02 <Terkhen> so... no idea :P 11:40:30 <ntoskrnl> Terkhen: temporary files are almost always something to avoid. on the other hand, having a 1MB buffer in memory for the whole PNG may not be a good idea either. isn't stream based IO an option? 11:51:40 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:52:56 *** hitenchu [~hiten@aya.inabowl.se] has joined #openttd 11:55:22 *** roadt_ [~roadt@114.96.142.110] has joined #openttd 11:56:35 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A592.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:02:13 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.100.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:18:38 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-054-136.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 12:29:00 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@p4FEDCB2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:36:22 *** NOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-25-84.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 12:42:53 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08f65e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:54:52 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:20:43 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 13:55:26 *** Superuser [~superuser@host109-158-152-20.range109-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:01:28 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:01:43 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 14:05:55 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 14:06:04 <drac_boy> hi 14:06:45 <Superuser> hey guys, why is OpenTTD not XDG-compliant? I don't like programs that spam .folders 14:06:56 <drac_boy> xdg? 14:07:18 <Superuser> http://freegamer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/game-developers-standardize-custom-user.html 14:13:34 <Terkhen> I never heard about that 14:13:50 <drac_boy> superuser I'll give the same answer I give to ms users: NO THANKS 14:14:00 <Terkhen> does that xdg thing have a website somewhere that explains what i tis? 14:14:02 <Terkhen> it is* 14:14:05 <drac_boy> it just causes too many problems for cloned apps with different settings 14:14:15 <drac_boy> but meh :) 14:14:18 <__ln___> http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html but... 14:14:38 <__ln___> but uh oh, it lists Lennart Poettering as one of the authors. 14:14:38 <Superuser> why do you say that drac_boy 14:14:53 <Superuser> and define 'cloned apps' 14:15:20 <ntoskrnl> derivative apps will have a different name and hence also a different config directory 14:15:25 <Superuser> why do people hate Poettering so much? He's the man that solved the UEFI problem (which was slightly overblown, but still important) 14:15:49 <Superuser> are there any *actual* forks of OpenTTD? Be realistic. 14:15:53 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-25-84.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 14:16:54 <drac_boy> ntoskrnl not really...I have a few instances of Gnumeric but clicking each one shows you different presets nevertheless 14:17:05 <__ln___> Superuser: he's the reason that audio still isn't usable on Linux. 14:17:10 <drac_boy> and no its nothing to do with aliases/flags 14:17:21 <Superuser> ALSA you mean? Implementation's fault 14:17:37 <Terkhen> Superuser: feel free to create a flyspray task with this, but my opinion is that if something's not broken we should not change it 14:17:38 <Superuser> distros' fault 14:18:01 <drac_boy> heh terkhen thats rather true 14:18:01 <ntoskrnl> drac_boy: i can't see how this XDG changes anything, the settings are just stored in subfolders instead of directly in ~ 14:18:09 <Superuser> It's fucking annoying that programs have since the days of UNIX spammed one's home folder with fuckloads of dot-folders 14:18:20 <Superuser> yeah 14:18:26 <Superuser> it makes things that much cleaner 14:18:28 <drac_boy> superuser so you never ever noticed that ms does it tons worser? 14:18:33 <Superuser> and more predictable 14:18:36 <drac_boy> and yet everyone expect thats the normal 14:18:46 <Superuser> not really, it makes it more predictable 14:18:54 <drac_boy> nope 14:18:57 <Superuser> when I installed hexchat I went to .config and voila it was there 14:19:01 <Superuser> not an ugly xchat2 folder 14:19:07 <__ln___> Superuser: *voilĂ 14:19:32 <Superuser> it makes things more predictable. MS does this in a shit way with Application Data and Local Settings\Application Data 14:19:36 <Superuser> and it's generally confusing 14:19:43 <Terkhen> hmmm... 14:19:59 <Superuser> Most games have reached the unofficial standard of saving to My Documents\My Games though, but I don't think that's official 14:20:01 <__ln___> Superuser: start boycotting applications that don't conform to XDG. 14:20:02 <Superuser> loads of games do it tho 14:20:07 <Terkhen> now that I think of it, IIRC the place where OpenTTD places its configuration can be changed via compilation options 14:20:40 <Terkhen> so you may want to ask the person who packages openttd for your distribution 14:21:02 <Superuser> I got it from the website... 14:21:02 <ntoskrnl> %appdata% is not the user's home folder... it's not the default directory for a shell and users don't see it all the time 14:21:05 <Superuser> a .deb 14:23:01 <Terkhen> if that's the case, feel free to create a flyspray task; I don't know much about how this change would affect distribution packaging, you may get more informed opinions about the feasability of the change there 14:23:16 <Superuser> bug.openttd.org right? 14:23:45 <Terkhen> bugs. 14:24:06 <Superuser> I predict a WONTFIX label, but I'll go ahead anyway, thanks 14:25:42 <Terkhen> in my opinion it's not a bug :P 14:26:05 <ntoskrnl> yeah, it's just that openttd hasn't yet caught up with a new standard 14:27:12 <drac_boy> and its still messing up with some older ones too..I still can't even run more than one ottd folder on ms ... why? -_- 14:31:01 <Superuser> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5385 dum de dum 14:32:20 *** teggi [~teggi@73.240.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 14:36:13 <frosch123> he, we rejected that years ago :p 14:36:42 <Rubidium> oh... may I write a nice thing about that? ;) 14:36:42 <frosch123> ottd folder is a mixture of recoverable and personal data 14:38:23 <frosch123> as far as i got back then, xdg is for small applications with a single file, or maybe two 14:38:30 <frosch123> ottd has several thousand 14:38:38 <frosch123> at least my ottd install :p 14:39:48 <Terkhen> oh, I assumed that it would be a relatively recent standard :P 14:41:23 <frosch123> well, meanwhile i even have that folder :p 14:41:40 <frosch123> last time it was suggested i did not have it, since no application used it 14:42:00 <frosch123> now there are all the standard desktop things 14:43:00 <Superuser> most proprietary developers don't support it but they don't give a fuck about standards anyway and just place shit in /opt 14:43:50 <ntoskrnl> adobe media server dumps everything in /opt... libraries, configuration, everything 14:44:08 <ntoskrnl> comes with its own openssl and zlib 14:44:10 <Superuser> also, XDG is a desktop standard, so things like .subversion and .gem (Ruby) are still in separate dot-folders 14:44:18 <__ln___> isn't /opt the correct place for shit then? 14:44:19 <Superuser> dear oh dear 14:44:25 <Superuser> well said :) 14:44:30 <Superuser> fuck adobe 14:45:55 <__ln___> ntoskrnl: openssl has a constantly changing ABI, so you can't rely on finding a compatible version on a particular system. 14:46:26 <ntoskrnl> fair enough i guess 14:46:40 <Superuser> still pissed off that kernel developers shat on FatELF 14:46:58 <TinoDidriksen> They could have gone the nVidia route and made a shim to the OS versions. 14:47:05 <Superuser> it would have finally given developers used to Windows' and Mac OS's standardisation that confidence 14:47:32 <__ln___> Superuser: btw, FatELF is currently being considered for Haiku. 14:47:35 <Superuser> but it would help proprietary developers too much. BULLSHIT. Distro release cycles are the cancer killing the Linux desktop 14:48:01 <ntoskrnl> just use freebsd =P 14:48:45 <Superuser> ehh it's being increasingly locked out 14:49:01 <Superuser> companies like RedHat support Linux-specific projects like systemd and wayland 14:49:04 <Terkhen> what's wrong with release cycles? 14:49:05 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:49:47 <Superuser> Terkhen: consider Ubuntu's 6 month release cycle. It doesn't even let game developers make major updates to their games. I understand if your Apache depended on it, but a game? C'mon. 14:49:50 <frosch123> Terkhen: the compromise between features of today, and stability of in 3 years :p 14:50:17 <Terkhen> switch to a distribution which suits your tastes :P 14:50:30 <Superuser> It assumes all software follows the release cycle of the Linux kernel, for which individual versions are maintained for years on end. That's just false 14:51:19 <Superuser> You're not being realistic Terkhen. Almost all OpenTTD Linux players are on a Debian-based distro, none of which are particularly bleeding-edge. 14:51:39 <Terkhen> I did not say that the distribution which suits your tastes exists 14:51:41 <Superuser> most of them probably get an outdated version from their package manager and play that. They may be disillusioned by it 14:51:56 <Rubidium> how new is that xdg spec actually? 14:52:16 <Terkhen> there is nothing inherently wrong in debian release cycle, it may be good for some users but bad for others 14:52:53 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:53:03 <Superuser> It gives you ancient software. It makes sense for something like a programming language, but not for games. No games follow that release cycle and the latest release version tends to be the greatest 14:53:11 <Terkhen> I do agree that a distribution with a different take on release cycles would be welcome, but I don't think that existing distributions should change their release cycles 14:53:16 <Superuser> very few OSS games offer binaries for Linux, they force users to compile the source 14:53:16 <Terkhen> they have their own philosophies to follow 14:53:39 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 14:54:08 <Superuser> Nah they should, they are QAing everything and it ain't the right approach. People expect to have the software version talked about on a program's website. 14:54:18 <frosch123> Rubidium: squeeze knows about it, lenny doesn't 14:54:44 <Terkhen> I'm quite sure that debian stable users expect it to be stable :P 14:54:44 <Superuser> In practice, most Ubuntu users for instance (relatively nontechnical) don't understand PPAs and are afraid of the command line 14:55:34 <Superuser> lol yeah, but Debian-stable users tend to be either OSS fanatics or system administrators. Who get shit graphical drivers that can hardly play a game. 14:56:05 <TinoDidriksen> Well then, get OTTD on Steam for Linux! 14:56:08 <Terkhen> why should you force them to change their release schedule then? 14:56:22 <Terkhen> the distribution is not aimed for people with the problems you mention 14:56:23 <Superuser> Because they're killing off potential market share. 14:56:33 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:56:45 <Terkhen> ubuntu may think that it is aimed for the problems you mention, but it is not 14:56:53 <Superuser> My dad always downloads the latest version of OpenOffice on his Windows PC (I moved him to LibreOffice btw) 14:57:23 <Superuser> a lot of people are obsessed with having the latest software. That's why programs on Windows like the filehippo update checker are so popular 14:57:26 <Terkhen> what I'm trying to say is: debian is not wrong, because it does what it is meant to do for its users 14:57:35 <Terkhen> if you want bleeding edge, move to another distribution 14:57:47 <Terkhen> if you want a stable core and bleeding edge on the rest, you may need a new distribution 14:57:52 <Superuser> yes, but debian doesn't go full desktop, it acts as a jack of all trades, but it knows well it's mainly a server distro 14:57:56 <frosch123> [15:56] <Superuser> Because they're killing off potential market share. <- haha, did you ever consider that someone might not be heading for market share? 14:58:08 <Terkhen> but that does not mean that existing distributions are wrong, they do what they are meant to do 14:58:16 <Terkhen> they are just not for everyone 14:58:25 <Terkhen> that's the whole point of having distributions, freedom of choice :P 14:58:31 <Superuser> Indeed, but you're consistently looking at niche distributions 14:58:56 <Superuser> Ubuntu and Linux Mint should definitely try to offer the latest. Mint DOES do this if you file a bug, but someone has to step up and do that. 14:59:01 <Superuser> I don't know about Ubuntu 14:59:40 <Superuser> distros for the mainstream desktop user should definitely follow that approach. If I'm not mistaken, Ubuntu 12.04 still packages 1.15 ;) 15:02:06 <Terkhen> I tried Mint and removed it... why do they have to change my chromium preferences to point to their website? I thought that was limited to windows malware 15:03:43 <Superuser> hehe 15:03:55 <Superuser> I'm glad that DDG is sponsoring them tho :) 15:04:01 <Rubidium> there is only ONE "distribution" that reliably allows you to get the latest version of anything without walking ways that are not the default way for the distribution 15:04:39 <Terkhen> which is? :P 15:04:42 <Rubidium> it also allows you to have perfectly optimised binaries and libraries specific to your hardware and needs; no need for lots of bloat 15:04:49 <Rubidium> Terkhen: obviously LFS 15:04:59 <Terkhen> heh :D 15:05:59 <Superuser> keke 15:06:05 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:06:29 <drac_boy> not really ;) 15:06:46 <Terkhen> for now I'm happy with arch, until one of these days I update and I'm greeted by a black screen 15:07:06 <Terkhen> but after trying other distributions I went back to it :P 15:12:23 <Superuser> Rubidium: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5385 15:12:44 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A592.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:02 <TinoDidriksen> I just don't see the problem. They start with a . for a reason. 15:24:35 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:32:03 *** roadt_ [~roadt@114.96.142.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:44:26 <Superuser> TinoDidriksen: I have to scroll through literally dozens of these dot-folders. Dozens. Any full-time Linux user has to do this. 15:44:59 <TinoDidriksen> Scroll through when? Only when I do ls -a or turn on displaying hidden files/folders. 15:45:06 <Superuser> The worst part is that package managers by default leave all the dot-shit behind and you have to clean it up. Which I can't be arsed to do with the volume of stuff I install 15:45:12 <Superuser> same 15:45:19 <Superuser> it's a lot of folders man 15:50:02 <Pinkbeast> Why clean it up? It doesn't show up without ls -a and it's tiny. 16:07:27 <drac_boy> pinkbeast I agree...I only see like 6 folders all the times 16:07:32 <drac_boy> six is NOTHING :) 16:08:25 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 16:09:13 <NGC3982> Evening. 16:14:23 <Pinkbeast> Well, I've got a bunch of junk in my home directory, but using a tool that's buggy inasmuch as it shows dotfiles by default and then complaining you can see dotfiles is just making a rod for your own back. :-) 16:18:49 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 16:20:42 <Rubidium> Superuser: I never scroll through dozens of . folders 16:21:55 <Rubidium> what will be annoying is that for the config file I would have to be in .config/openttd/openttd.cfg which is at least 4 keystrokes more than I need now 16:22:53 <Rubidium> also moving files around is a nuisance, especially if you run nightlies *and* stable releases (which isn't uncommon at all) 16:24:34 <Rubidium> furthermore the "where is the config file" is going to be horribly more complicated 16:24:52 <Rubidium> it's not simple $XDF_CONFIG_HOME/openttd nor ~/.config/openttd 16:26:22 <Rubidium> and last, but definitely not least: it breaks portable installations! 16:28:42 <Rubidium> also, how good can a specification be if it doesn't even mention a date of introduction? 16:29:46 <Rubidium> not to mention that *properly* supporting that specification means searching an arbitrary amount of folders for the configuration file 16:30:08 <Rubidium> which will be a lot of fun to debug... NOT 16:31:13 <Superuser> At least you could use SOME parts of the spec 16:31:14 <Rubidium> also, the specifications fail on Windows 16:31:17 <Superuser> like XDG_PICTURES_DIR for Pictures 16:31:34 <Superuser> true, but you use different environment variables on Windows anyway. 16:31:38 <Rubidium> well, I'd go for XDF_OPENTTD_DIR for OpenTTD stuff 16:31:45 <Rubidium> that nicely redirects to ~ ;) 16:31:56 <Rubidium> Superuser: why? 16:32:18 <Superuser> because it is guaranteed to work with every linux distribution 16:32:26 <Superuser> and it is always in the same place 16:32:39 <Superuser> unless the distro changed it ofc 16:32:44 <Rubidium> I doubt that guarantee is made 16:33:08 <Rubidium> and if you implement a specification, you must implement it correctly, not half arsed 16:33:20 <Superuser> Doubt again 16:33:28 <Rubidium> also... 16:33:32 <Rubidium> what does PICTURES mean? 16:33:35 <Rubidium> any .png file? 16:34:03 <Rubidium> by the way, it's not in the specifications 16:34:25 <Superuser> yeah that's the basedir spec 16:34:32 <Superuser> there are other specs that cover this 16:34:49 <Rubidium> so heightmaps belong in PICTURES 16:35:38 <Superuser> Example https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xdg_user_directories 16:35:51 <Superuser> no, pictures is where you save screenshots 16:35:51 <Rubidium> really, if someone expects this to be implemented/adopted, they should write a simple library for that 16:36:04 <Superuser> you just use environment variables, much easier than a library... 16:36:05 <Rubidium> says who? what specification? 16:36:28 <Superuser> ? 16:36:28 <Rubidium> Superuser: yes... much easier... right 16:37:01 <Superuser> so I guess you won't do this. 16:37:02 <Rubidium> I'd want a get_xdg_config_path("openttd/openttd.cfg") that does all tricky stuff for me 16:37:19 <Rubidium> as currently I would have to: 16:37:30 <Rubidium> a) read an environment variable 16:37:42 <Rubidium> b) if that variable exist, make sure it is a proper absolute path 16:38:21 <Superuser> b is false, they all have defaults 16:38:31 <Superuser> so you can just leave it null 16:38:33 <Rubidium> c) if it doesn't exist, read the HOME environment variable, if that doesn't exist use getpwuid(getuid)->pwdir or fail 16:39:11 <Rubidium> d) if the file is not there, I would have to read another environment variable, split that on colons and test all those folders as well 16:39:31 <Superuser> standardisation hurts. 16:39:37 <Rubidium> which is loads and loads of stupid work that each and every person implementing this needs to do 16:40:08 <Rubidium> so... it NEEDS a simple library that handles all the crap and corner cases 16:40:31 <Superuser> how many lines would you actually have to change? There are like 30 config files with a clean install 16:40:32 <Rubidium> prefereably one that allows inserting custom search folders as well 16:41:11 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:33 <Rubidium> it's not changing, it's adding 16:42:08 <Rubidium> and splitting the single set of paths three or four times 16:42:29 <Rubidium> and basically breaking portable installs of OpenTTD 16:42:35 <Rubidium> not to mention the current ones 16:42:44 <Rubidium> unless we keep the $HOME fallback 16:43:03 <Superuser> which breaks portable installs too. 16:43:10 <Rubidium> and just keep everything and dump all the 'new' crap into the .config directory 16:44:03 <Rubidium> Superuser: no, one could add a single!!! location for all files of OpenTTD to the search path without breaking stuff 16:44:59 <Rubidium> this would imply that it would not migrate to the xdg crap immediately though; only when the user does it manually or when (s)he trashes the ~/.openttd folder 16:45:17 <Rubidium> otherwise it will still keep using the .openttd folder (if the config file is already there) 16:45:26 <Rubidium> for new installs it would use the .config directory 16:45:38 <Rubidium> ... but we would be equally violating the specifications 16:46:06 <Superuser> wouldn't providing a bash script with a nice little mv -f do the trick? 16:46:19 <Rubidium> for who? 16:46:30 <Rubidium> not for $noob 16:46:31 <Superuser> everyone upgrading to openttd 1.3 16:46:39 <Rubidium> not for $dev 16:46:50 <Superuser> for $inbetween? 16:46:52 <Rubidium> not for $advanced_user_using_multiple_versions 16:47:01 <Alberth> for all windows users, of course 16:47:04 <Superuser> do people actually do that? 16:47:10 * Alberth raises hand 16:47:13 <Rubidium> Superuser: use multiple versions? 16:47:20 <Superuser> yes 16:47:54 <Terkhen> devs do it all the time, as does everyone who wants to play online in stable servers and single player with nightlies 16:47:56 <Rubidium> nah, roughly all translators and 'geeks' that want to have the newest version and play multiplayer at a time 16:48:01 <Superuser> I wonder why, lol, I think there are some NewGRF incompatibilities between >=1.2 and <1.2 16:48:45 <Terkhen> allowing NewGRF incompatibilities belongs to NewGRF utopia :P 16:49:33 <Pinkbeast> Anyone trying to decide which patchpack they like (raising my own hand) 16:49:59 <Rubidium> Superuser: who said 1.1.x and 1.2.x together? 16:50:13 <Rubidium> I'm talking about nightlies, patchpacks and the likes 16:50:46 <Superuser> ah I see 16:50:59 <Superuser> ok then, no xdg compliance 16:51:02 <Superuser> meh 16:51:20 <Superuser> still, you're doing it wrong, as 4chan would say 16:54:07 <frosch123> you should stop reading 4chan, and read xkcd instead 16:54:11 <Rubidium> no, we're not doing it wrong 16:54:26 <Rubidium> doing something wrong implies doing something 16:54:42 <Superuser> yes, you are actively opposing the standard 16:54:45 <Superuser> doing 16:55:03 <Rubidium> and I would actually reckon that most custom implementations of said specifications have not implemented it correctly 16:55:12 <Superuser> FUD 16:55:27 <Rubidium> oh... a specification of less than a year old is now already a standard? 16:55:35 <Rubidium> by whom's authority? 16:56:13 <Rubidium> as I see it... by gnome 16:56:24 <Terkhen> urgh :P 16:57:05 <Superuser> except that KDE, LXDE and Xfce are also fully compliant :P 16:57:13 <Superuser> and a bunch of software. 16:59:06 <Rubidium> I'm not opposed to the standard, I'm opposed to manually implementing the standard to get the right path 16:59:16 <Rubidium> as I said, it involves quite a bit of complexity 17:01:34 <Rubidium> and for what it's worth, we comply with the unix file system "standard" 17:04:51 *** snorre [~snorre@c4A06BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #openttd 17:08:01 <Rubidium> also, we comply with the FHS (file hierarchy standard) and LSB (Linux standard base) 17:18:36 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24800 trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp (2012-12-08 17:18:30 UTC) 17:18:37 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5327] (r21933): Glitch in timetable GUI. (sbr) 17:18:58 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24801 /trunk/src (18 files in 2 dirs) (2012-12-08 17:18:51 UTC) 17:18:59 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Add functions to set integral DParams to suitable values for size computations. 17:19:04 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 17:19:15 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24802 trunk/src/news_gui.cpp (2012-12-08 17:19:09 UTC) 17:19:16 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#4224]: When displaying the previous news message, don't consider news which are turned off. 17:23:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:30:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:43:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:02:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:20:46 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:25:33 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@p4FEDCB2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:39:12 * dihedral thinks r25k should be worth a party ^^ 18:43:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:44:21 <andythenorth> bonjour 18:45:37 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24803 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2012-12-08 18:45:27 UTC) 18:45:39 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:40 <DorpsGek> basque - 82 changes by lutxiketa 18:45:41 <DorpsGek> latvian - 9 changes by Parastais 18:45:42 <DorpsGek> spanish - 66 changes by Terkhen 18:45:43 <DorpsGek> ukrainian - 1 changes by edd_k 18:47:32 <Terkhen> hi andythenorth 18:51:32 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-105-82-227.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 18:51:55 <supermop> andythenorth: what's a good pixel drawing program for osx? 18:52:15 <supermop> flying to london in a couple hours and only taking my work computer 18:52:24 <supermop> want to draw sprites on the flight 18:54:11 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 18:54:49 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-102-52.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 19:00:35 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.76.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:11:22 <andythenorth> supermop: photostrop 19:11:28 <andythenorth> and it's cold in London, have a coat 19:11:33 <andythenorth> at least I assume it's cold 19:11:35 <andythenorth> it's cold here 19:12:40 <frosch123> isn't it supposed to be rainy? 19:13:27 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@p4FEDCB2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:14:53 <andythenorth> dunno 19:16:06 <andythenorth> meh 19:16:08 <andythenorth> nothing in forums 19:17:32 <frosch123> at lot of nothingness might indicate invisible unicorns 19:18:18 <andythenorth> as I can't seee any, they must be there 19:46:59 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.96.122.158] has joined #openttd 19:54:58 *** lucaspiller_ [uid2039@brockwell.irccloud.com] has joined #openttd 19:57:57 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:58:00 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 20:00:34 *** CornishPasty [uid158@id-158.hampstead.irccloud.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:34 *** lucaspiller [uid2039@id-2039.hampstead.irccloud.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:55 *** lucaspiller_ is now known as lucaspiller 20:01:19 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:28:15 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:40:00 *** CornishPasty [uid158@brockwell.irccloud.com] has joined #openttd 20:45:47 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:47:55 *** snorre [~snorre@c4A06BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:49:33 <supermop> andythenorth: free and that i can get in the next 30 minutes 20:49:46 <andythenorth> photoshop CS trial version? 20:50:25 <andythenorth> seashore is gimp compatible, but kills battery on my mac 20:50:55 <andythenorth> supermop: http://seashore.sourceforge.net/The_Seashore_Project/About.html 20:51:24 *** snorre [~snorre@c4A06BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #openttd 20:51:40 <andythenorth> http://paintbrush.sourceforge.net 20:52:14 <andythenorth> supermop: paintbrush looks ok 20:52:22 <andythenorth> no way to load a palette afaict 20:53:15 <supermop> ah hmm 20:53:24 <supermop> can load into ps when i get home 20:53:53 <andythenorth> supermop: http://pixenapp.com 20:53:57 <andythenorth> pixel specific :o 20:54:26 <andythenorth> http://code.google.com/p/grafx2/ 20:54:30 <andythenorth> also pixel specific 20:55:18 <andythenorth> pixen loaded my dos palette ok (CLUT file) 20:55:57 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-189.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 21:04:04 *** hitenchu [~hiten@aya.inabowl.se] has left #openttd [] 21:14:55 <supermop> ahh hmm paid app 21:16:26 <andythenorth> free beta? 21:16:33 <andythenorth> I just googled them tbh :) 21:17:01 <supermop> heh 21:17:30 <supermop> hmm mypaint? 21:21:07 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 21:22:30 <andythenorth> looks a bit pressure-brush orientated 21:22:34 <andythenorth> can probably do pixels :P 21:27:31 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:27:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 21:27:57 <supermop> ok headed to jfk before too long 21:28:16 <supermop> can't decide if i want to use taxi or subway 21:28:40 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:33:40 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-39-99.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:37:53 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 21:40:01 <Superuser> http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20121204/uptown/couple-says-trigger-happy-cop-popped-their-pup-then-wrote-traffic-ticket 21:40:04 <Superuser> AMERICA FUCK YEAH 21:41:12 *** Psyk [~Psyk@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:41:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:45:36 <Rubidium> pff... that's probably just self defence (under US law) 21:48:30 *** Psyk [~Psyk@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 21:53:24 <kjetil_> MURICA! 22:02:47 <Wolf01> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBX-OUp_ZF0 oh god why... 22:05:54 *** Superuser [~superuser@host109-158-152-20.range109-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:27 <Rubidium> Wolf01: to forget the recent remake crap of such stuff? 22:14:40 <Psyk> oh... transformed thomas is even more annoying than normal thomas 22:16:02 <Wolf01> to be honest I was viewing some scenes of the 1986 Transformers series when that... thing... appeared on the related 22:19:51 <Psyk> i have never seen any transformers stuff, is it worth watching? 22:30:06 <Wolf01> when I was a child they were over the top, they seem so silly now... 22:37:11 <Psyk> it looks funny 22:37:47 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:54:10 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 23:21:27 <Wolf01> 'night all 23:21:30 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:24:03 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:29:22 <JamesGo> Has anyone tried running OpenTTD on RISC OS? I built 1.2.3 and the latest CargoDist using the RiscPkg AutoBuilder, they both run well apart from the long startup time 23:35:26 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 23:42:44 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:44:18 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd