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00:02:42 *** burtybob [5af67590@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 00:02:49 <burtybob> xQr: You still here? 00:05:47 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-4d04e3ca.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:06:58 *** burtybob [5af67590@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [] 00:10:05 *** MinchinWeb [~MinchinWe@S01066431505f320b.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: "Help! I've been g:lined from my mIRC!!" Bersirc 2.2: less n00bs [ http://www.bersirc.org/ - Open Source IRC ]] 00:15:10 <xQR> lol 00:15:21 <xQR> apparently he couldn't sleep :P 00:17:15 <drac_boy> heh 00:20:02 *** murr4y [murray@kvikshaug.no] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 00:22:15 <V453000> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/wiki :) for a start 00:30:44 <drac_boy> heh nice V453000 00:31:06 <V453000> will be nicer, mainly information now :) but thanls 00:31:11 <V453000> ks 00:31:14 <V453000> .. :) 00:33:22 <drac_boy> heh 00:43:43 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:49:39 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 00:49:44 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:53:23 *** longbyte1 [~chatzilla@cpe-66-69-45-106.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:57:19 *** Superuser [~root@host109-157-97-59.range109-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 00:57:42 <Superuser> hey all just wondering are there any autistic people in here (Asperger's counts as autism too)? 00:58:38 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:00:06 <Wolf01> 'night all 01:00:15 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 01:02:12 <longbyte1> Hi 01:02:32 <longbyte1> How do I upgrade an airport without disrupting airplane traffic? 01:02:54 <longbyte1> And are the planes just going to keep circling and not just crash onto the ground? 01:03:20 <longbyte1> I just don't want the planes' orders to get cleared... >.< 01:05:03 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 01:05:17 <Superuser> so are there any autistic people in here?? 01:08:09 <longbyte1> don't think so, why do you ask? 01:08:37 <Superuser> my brother said that approximately 40% of the people that play ottd suffer from some form of autism 01:09:14 <FLHerne> Superuser: Seems improbable 01:10:00 <FLHerne> 64% of statistics are arbitrarily invented, including this one ;-) 01:14:49 <longbyte1> How do I automatically rebuy trucks when they are service life 01:14:55 <longbyte1> age* 01:15:04 <longbyte1> over* 01:18:09 <longbyte1> can anyone answer my question? 01:20:01 <planetmaker> there's autorenew (to same model) and autoreplace (to other model) 01:20:13 <planetmaker> obviously autorenew doesn't work when the model is no longer available 01:20:38 <planetmaker> you can prevent vehicle models expiring by setting vehicles never expire in adv. settings 01:21:27 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/Autoreplace and http://wiki.openttd.org/Autorenew#Autorenew 01:30:15 <longbyte1> ok 01:30:26 <longbyte1> second, how do I upgrade a busy airport? 01:30:36 <planetmaker> destroy & rebuild quickly 01:31:06 <planetmaker> be sure to be allowed to build 01:31:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Superuser: besides that nobody in here actually plays the game... studies have shown that "geeks" or "hackers" are not more likely to have aspergers than any other group of people. instead "intense world syndrome", which is practically the opposite of aspergers is more common 01:31:19 <planetmaker> or you'll be left w/o airport, old and new 01:32:13 <FLHerne> Is that 'close airports' patch in trunk yet? 01:32:20 <planetmaker> iirc yes 01:32:22 <V453000> better connect the old airport to a train station or any other station 01:32:31 <V453000> so you dont lose the airport for good just in case something goes wrong >] 01:32:34 <FLHerne> I remember one of those ones was (overbuild or close), but not which :P 01:32:59 <planetmaker> overbuilding is not there 01:33:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Superuser: a.sl 01:33:06 <Eddi|zuHause> b 01:33:08 <Eddi|zuHause> brrr 01:33:24 <planetmaker> cttt 01:34:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Superuser: also, tell your brother he's an insensitive prejudicial person... 01:34:28 <planetmaker> :-) 01:36:41 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: weren't you going to bed two hours ago? :p 01:36:54 <planetmaker> yes... 01:37:08 <planetmaker> can't sleep :D 01:39:28 <planetmaker> actually ... I did that. I just do not sleep yet ;-) 01:44:40 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... looks like it snowed a little bit 01:45:28 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46:00 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 01:51:26 *** Superuser [~root@host109-157-97-59.range109-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:53:40 <xQR> lol planetmaker that was a short sleeping session :) 01:53:57 <Eddi|zuHause> "this vehicle had to be regauged from 'italian meter gauge' (950mm) to 1000mm" 01:54:12 <Sacro> those crazy italians 01:54:20 <Eddi|zuHause> err... who said we europeans had our gauges "in order"? :p 01:54:53 <planetmaker> lol. "Italian metre" sounds... weired 01:55:29 <planetmaker> 5% "protection fee" :D 01:55:37 <xQR> :D 02:00:53 <Flygon> Eddi: It's more in order than Australia 02:01:11 <Flygon> You only have three major gauges, Spanish, Russian, and Standard 02:01:31 <Flygon> And they're all self-contained 02:04:04 <Flygon> Here... well 02:04:11 <Flygon> Gaugeception isn't unheard of 02:04:42 <Flygon> There's 752mm, 1067mm, 1435mm, 1600mm railways... 02:04:49 <Flygon> Those're the four major ones 02:05:03 <Flygon> 752mm is mostly self-contained, though 02:05:22 <Flygon> 1435 and 1600 overlap a lot... impossible to make good DG lines with them 02:06:26 <Flygon> We've have had triple gauge railways 02:06:34 <Flygon> No quadruple gauge, though 02:08:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: we also have 1000mm, 900mm, 760mm, 750mm, ... 02:09:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: in early railway times there was also a badian gauge 1600mm and a dutch gauge 2000mm 02:09:41 <Flygon> Annnnd I gotta go 02:09:54 <Flygon> Mum's dragging me out, I hate the backyard >_> 02:10:09 <Flygon> Also, 760mm, 752mm, and 750mm are compatible :P 02:10:35 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on how much of a buffer you have 02:11:45 <Eddi|zuHause> if you're already at the low end of the buffer for 750, then you might get in trouble on 760 02:31:18 *** murr4y [murray@kvikshaug.no] has joined #openttd 02:31:58 <V453000> I suggest worldwide protest against time 02:32:02 <V453000> it cant be 3:33 again 02:32:03 <V453000> .. 02:38:35 <Eddi|zuHause> "worldwide time protesting day: stop time for 15 minutes"... except nobody will know when the 15 minutes are over, since time is stopped :p 02:41:24 *** Djohaal_ [~Djohaal@201.47.31.231.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:21:54 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:34:52 *** mkv` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 03:38:31 *** Biolunar_ [~mahdi@blfd-4d083cc6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 03:38:35 <longbyte1> what's the fastest car in openttd? 03:38:47 <longbyte1> or truck or bus or land vehicle with wheels 03:39:05 <glx> depends on newgrf used 03:40:58 <longbyte1> vanilla 03:41:04 <longbyte1> I believe 03:42:04 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:42:05 <longbyte1> how do I stimulate the production of an industry 03:43:50 <longbyte1> I have a bunch of trucks demanding lumber, but the production isn't adapted to the demand 03:45:17 <Pinkbeast> Serve it well for some time. 03:45:40 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d083f4f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:59:06 <Supercheese> You need to increase station rating to get more cargo 03:59:16 <Supercheese> http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Station_rating 03:59:34 <longbyte1> gah, turning electric railroad to monorail is not like rail to electric rail 03:59:48 <Supercheese> Correct, unless using special newgrfs 03:59:53 <longbyte1> no diesel monorail trains 03:59:59 <longbyte1> lol 04:00:17 <Pinkbeast> And why not? The whole railtypes thing is a mess. 04:06:44 <Supercheese> Time for more pixel pushing... making graphics takes orders of magnitude longer than coding >< 04:08:21 <longbyte1> how do I reserve a specific truck depot for dropoffs and another for pickup 04:08:36 <Supercheese> truck station you mean? 04:09:03 <Pinkbeast> Make two stations. 04:09:12 <Supercheese> Yes, that 04:12:06 <longbyte1> make two stations, one that transports the goods from station 1 to station 2, the rest of the trucks pick up from station 2 04:12:29 <longbyte1> wouldn't transfer grinding be cheating? 04:14:46 <Pinkbeast> I thought this was an industry; drop off cargo X, pick up cargo Y. 04:15:08 <Pinkbeast> If not; route the dropoff trucks via waypoint X and pickup via waypoint Y. 04:36:17 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 05:03:44 *** longbyte1 [~chatzilla@cpe-66-69-45-106.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0/20130104151925]] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4033.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67479.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:55:49 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:56:17 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 06:56:27 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [] 07:02:54 *** Extrems [borgs@24.157.137.219] has joined #openttd 07:10:10 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 07:26:21 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 07:26:45 <Supercheese> "nmlc ERROR: Using spritesets with different sizes in a single sprite group / layout is not possible" 07:26:46 <Supercheese> huh? 07:28:10 <Supercheese> Different sizes as in pixels, or number of sprites in set? 07:30:55 <Supercheese> Bah, timezones; nobody on :( 07:32:10 <Rubidium> well... nobody with the answer is on 07:32:18 <Rubidium> though I doubt it'll be pixels 07:33:09 <Supercheese> I do have a different number of sprites in different spritesets in the same layout 07:33:14 <Supercheese> why is that illegal? :S 07:33:23 <Supercheese> one set has 8, the others 2 07:34:47 <Supercheese> Oh bullshit: "All spritesets used in a layout must have the same number of sprites, due to a restriction in the NFO format." 07:34:57 <Supercheese> I'll just add dummy sprites to the small groups 07:34:59 <Supercheese> :S 07:35:15 <planetmaker> moin 07:35:31 <planetmaker> Supercheese: different sprite number currently is not possible in nml 07:35:38 <planetmaker> will eventually be. after 0.3 07:35:48 <Supercheese> Eh, easy enough to fix 07:35:51 <Supercheese> just seems silly :S 07:36:00 <planetmaker> yes. just add [] dummy sprites 07:37:24 <planetmaker> Supercheese: the other way is to only use one spriteset. And assigne different sprites from the same spriteset to the same layout 07:38:01 <Supercheese> Yeah, but adding dummy sprites is less rewrite at this juncture, I think 07:38:15 <Supercheese> I coded for too long without testing compilation :P 07:39:13 <Supercheese> Bah, GIMP doesn't support math operations when inputting number of pixels 07:39:19 <planetmaker> test after logical steps :-) 07:41:30 <Supercheese> Yay, compiled 07:46:34 <Supercheese> Yay, works as intended 07:48:09 <Supercheese> Now to sprite-align... 07:48:38 * Supercheese hates sprite-aligning 07:53:06 <Supercheese> spritelayouts have weird coordinates 07:57:07 <Supercheese> very weird 08:01:53 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 08:16:01 <peter1138> there's a gui for that 08:17:03 <Supercheese> sprite align GUI is less helpful when the alignment is "from NE edge" and such 08:21:32 <peter1138> oh that's easy 08:21:51 <Supercheese> I'm likely mis/not understanding it 08:22:02 <peter1138> visualise the tile top-down 08:22:13 <peter1138> as a 16 x 16 square 08:22:25 <peter1138> north corner is 0, 0 08:24:31 <Supercheese> Hmm 08:25:49 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A32B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:33:54 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:44:49 <peter1138> what sort of tile is it anyway? 08:45:01 <Supercheese> Hmm, my childsprites' spritesets don't seem to be receiving the argument passed to them 08:45:13 <Supercheese> I've got the alignment sorted 08:45:22 <Supercheese> but now the randomization isn't working 08:45:37 <Supercheese> well, I'll just shove the random stuff right in the argument 08:46:33 <Supercheese> Still no :S 08:47:07 <Supercheese> ice_caps_NW_ends_set(nearby_tile_random_bits(0,0) % 2) 08:47:27 <Supercheese> should randomly choose the 0 or 1 indices of that spriteset 08:47:39 <Supercheese> but it only ever chooses 0 08:48:58 <Supercheese> ach, logic fail on my part 08:49:09 <Supercheese> typical 08:50:03 <peter1138> doing objects? 08:50:07 <Supercheese> yep 08:50:13 <Supercheese> Ice tiles 08:50:37 <Supercheese> too bad they can't be traversed by icebreaker ships, and then broken ;) 09:01:34 <Supercheese> Can I access extra_callback_info1 inside of a spritelayout? 09:01:46 <Supercheese> When the random_animation flag is set, that has nice random bits 09:01:59 <Supercheese> Well, let me try... 09:02:51 <Supercheese> Ugh, so much quitting and restarting OTTD 09:03:06 <peter1138> no because it's not a callback 09:03:13 <Supercheese> Yeah, no random bits :( 09:03:19 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:03:21 <Supercheese> Hmmm 09:03:23 <andythenorth> is it? 09:03:55 <andythenorth> a good morning? 09:03:59 <andythenorth> I ask you 09:04:13 <Supercheese> Well, being 1:05 AM here, I guess it's technically morning 09:04:21 <Supercheese> and I'm being productive in coding my grf, so yes 09:04:23 <Supercheese> a good morning 09:04:37 <andythenorth> ok 09:04:40 <andythenorth> good 09:04:52 <Supercheese> I just need a better way to randomize stuff within a spritelayout 09:05:03 <Supercheese> better/easier 09:05:04 *** ivan` [~ivan`@000130ca.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:05:11 * andythenorth has authored one lego cement mixer 09:05:16 <andythenorth> authored? 09:05:32 <andythenorth> is that true if I just followed instructions? 09:06:22 <Supercheese> Author, from the Latin auctor, can mean "originator", "doer", etc. 09:06:29 <Supercheese> seems good to me :) 09:06:38 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 09:06:45 <Supercheese> "enlarger" 09:07:01 <Supercheese> "grower", even 09:08:11 *** ivan` [~ivan`@000130ca.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:09:34 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:09:37 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:09:49 <Supercheese> Howdy 09:09:54 <Alberth> hi hi 09:10:35 <Supercheese> Hmm, maybe I can shove random bits into a temp storage and use that 09:11:36 <Supercheese> Wait, what kind of tiles can nearby_tile_random_bits access? 09:11:43 <Supercheese> Only tiles within the object? 09:13:31 <andythenorth> what's the goal? 09:14:00 <Supercheese> I've got some childsprites in a spritelayout I would like to each receive independently random data to select between sprites in their spritesets 09:14:07 <Supercheese> not entirely sure how to best do that 09:14:25 <Supercheese> 4 childsprites to be precise 09:14:55 <andythenorth> random but deterministic? 09:15:03 <andythenorth> erp 09:15:09 <Supercheese> random enough⢠09:15:16 <andythenorth> reliably random I should have said 09:15:37 <Supercheese> I'm just trying to avoid stuff looking too homogenous 09:15:46 <peter1138> sprites don't actually do anything, they're just sprites 09:16:00 <Supercheese> I want to pass an argument to the spriteset 09:16:11 <Supercheese> select the index randomly 09:16:12 <peter1138> spritesets don't have arguments 09:16:17 <Supercheese> yes they do 09:16:22 <andythenorth> not really :) 09:16:26 <andythenorth> not at run time 09:16:28 <Supercheese> indices/whatever 09:16:40 <andythenorth> its all magic created for you by nfo :) 09:16:43 <andythenorth> nml :P 09:16:47 <Supercheese> as long as it works 09:16:49 * andythenorth needs to have breakfast 09:16:54 <andythenorth> 50% of what I type is wrong today 09:16:59 <andythenorth> that's 5% more than normal 09:17:04 <Supercheese> :D 09:17:54 <andythenorth> Supercheese: got FIRS checked out? 09:18:08 <Supercheese> Not really, been working a lot on my grfs 09:18:26 <andythenorth> I'm looking for some randomising code there 09:19:09 <Supercheese> Oh, you mean I should be checking the code for inspiration... right 09:19:12 <andythenorth> nah 09:19:19 <andythenorth> it's way too templated :P 09:19:21 <andythenorth> I just checked 09:19:21 <Supercheese> thought you meant like SVN checkout or something 09:19:26 <andythenorth> I did at first 09:19:29 <andythenorth> still no breakfast :P 09:19:46 <Supercheese> oh my, ,py 09:19:49 <Supercheese> .py* 09:20:13 <andythenorth> hide_sprite: (terrain_type == TILETYPE_SNOW) || (current_year + 5 * LOAD_TEMP(0) / 0x10000) < 1920 || (current_year + 5 * LOAD_TEMP(0) / 0x10000) >= 1945; 09:20:25 <andythenorth> brb 09:20:27 <andythenorth> eating 09:22:25 <Supercheese> My choir director is going to hate me in ~7 hours when I have to sing, I'll have had no sleep :S 09:23:02 <andythenorth> objects have some random bits somewhere yes? 09:23:37 <Supercheese> nearby_tile_random_bits 09:24:07 <Supercheese> can get random bits from the current tile, doesn't seem to work on adjacent tiles 09:24:12 <andythenorth> and you have registers (temp / storage?) 09:24:20 <Supercheese> that is possible, yes 09:24:51 <Supercheese> I'm probably missing a very simple way to do what I want, perhaps I should sleep on it 09:25:04 <andythenorth> do you actually need every sprite to be random? 09:25:09 <andythenorth> or could you just select between combinations? 09:25:45 <Supercheese> Hmm 09:26:22 <andythenorth> I can't be bothered to look up how many bits you have :P 09:26:27 <andythenorth> holding a baby 09:26:32 <Supercheese> Well, each tile will be different, but the combinations will be the same I think 09:26:40 <Supercheese> using nearby_tile_random_bits(0,0) % whatever 09:27:16 <Supercheese> if I get enough random variants that will probably look OK 09:27:28 <andythenorth> just use the tile's own bits to switch combos 09:27:41 <andythenorth> 8 combos is plenty imho 09:27:48 <Supercheese> 8 is what I was shooting for, yeah 09:28:34 <Supercheese> I'll try that 09:28:53 <andythenorth> the clamp thingy is useful in nml, can't remember its name 09:28:56 <andythenorth> modulo? 09:29:07 <Supercheese> % mod, yeah 09:29:28 <andythenorth> I would use hide_sprite to handle this I think 09:29:40 <andythenorth> or use a switch to select entire spritegroups 09:29:52 <Supercheese> Yeah, already using that to hide sprite based on nearby_tile_object_type(0, 1) == same_obj 09:29:57 <andythenorth> all this magic inside layouts is a bit new-school for me :P 09:30:11 <Supercheese> I took inspiration from OGFX+ Landscape and VAST Objects 09:30:12 <andythenorth> I am used to thinking about varaction 2s that select layouts 09:30:14 <Supercheese> intense code 09:30:45 <Supercheese> I should apply for university credit for all this :P 09:31:51 <peter1138> you should use nfo 09:32:01 <peter1138> at least it doesn't try & pretend to be something it's not :p 09:32:03 <Supercheese> O_o 09:32:29 <Supercheese> well, it'd certainly be more difficult, I give you that 09:32:40 <Supercheese> a university-style move :P 09:33:21 <andythenorth> peter1138: nml isn't that evil 09:33:32 <andythenorth> it's just misleading if you confuse what's run time and what's not :P 09:34:00 <andythenorth> and what is really a whole load of magic advanced varaction 2 being hidden from you :P 09:34:15 * Supercheese likes the magic very much 09:34:36 <peter1138> does it have the sense to translate % 2 to & 1? 09:35:02 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 09:35:37 <Supercheese> what does & 1 do? 09:35:49 <peter1138> selects the first bit, giving you 0 or 1 09:39:40 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 09:43:11 <Supercheese> Oh hmm, maybe stuff like town_euclidean_dist is pseudo-random enough 09:43:40 <peter1138> but how expensive is thata? 09:43:46 <Supercheese> not a good idea? 09:44:27 <andythenorth> not for graphics chain 09:44:28 <andythenorth> overkill 09:44:32 <Supercheese> ok 09:44:34 <andythenorth> just use the random bits 09:44:42 <Supercheese> yeah 09:44:50 <andythenorth> or something with the animation frame 09:44:55 <andythenorth> 8 animation frames? 09:44:56 <Supercheese> was debating that 09:45:03 <andythenorth> each frame selects a combo 09:45:16 <andythenorth> advance the frame to random(8) on construction 09:45:18 <andythenorth> solved 09:45:22 <andythenorth> cheap 09:45:29 <Supercheese> Hmm, yes 09:46:26 <Supercheese> Haha, oops, my objects overhang the map edge if they're built at it 09:46:53 <peter1138> getting distance to closest town requires looping over all towns, not really a good idea 09:47:09 <Supercheese> I'll avoid it then :) 09:47:11 <peter1138> maybe the nml specs should say whether "variables" are costly 09:47:28 <Supercheese> seems like a decent idea 09:47:46 <Supercheese> well, definitely time to sleep 09:47:53 <Supercheese> many thanks for the help & advice :D 09:49:06 <Supercheese> valete omnes 09:49:11 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0/20130104151925]] 09:55:43 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-174-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:56:32 <Wolf01> hello o/ 09:59:20 <Terkhen> good morning 10:04:37 <andythenorth> bonjour 10:08:22 <V453000> elo 10:10:14 <Alberth> mornink 10:12:17 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:12:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:20:14 *** burtybob [5af67590@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 10:21:22 <burtybob> If anyone sees xQR today tell them burty/burtybob said thank you. It was the socket getting told the wrong packet size, it was reading the buffer size instead of the real size! 10:21:45 *** burtybob [5af67590@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [] 10:26:24 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:30:09 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:30:12 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 10:35:55 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-68-50.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:40:14 *** Maedhros [~maedhros@31.185.224.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:40:23 *** Maedhros [~maedhros@46.208.98.125] has joined #openttd 10:47:07 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-011-072.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 10:49:41 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-36-119.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:54:55 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:59:00 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 11:01:30 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 11:05:10 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:11:09 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:11:24 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 11:13:22 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:15:37 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 11:17:18 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:23:02 <planetmaker> moin 11:23:24 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:25:10 <V453000> hai 11:26:22 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 11:26:24 <drac_boy> hi 11:30:41 <Flygon> Howdy 11:35:23 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd730.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:35:55 <planetmaker> your NUTS wiki looks very nice, V453000 11:36:14 <drac_boy> how're you flygon? 11:36:23 <V453000> thank you, I hope to make it look a lot nicer by substituting some texts for images :) but so far mainly the info 11:36:31 <Flygon> I'm decent enough 11:36:58 <Flygon> Sitting around, realizing that Victorian Steamrail would have a money printer if they restored H220 :p 11:37:44 <Flygon> Bugger would be more powerful than any locomotive V/Line currently has. Fit in a massive tender and suddenly you can do 500km trips faster than their current N-class locos. And it'd be great for publicity :p 11:37:53 <drac_boy> heh -_- 11:38:00 <drac_boy> V453000 link? 11:38:53 <Flygon> Let's put it this way. N-class struggling up certain hills would barely push 60-80km/hm. Harry was designed to keep an 80km/h minimum on the same slopes (and, in practice... it went faster) 11:39:00 <Flygon> :B 11:39:56 <V453000> drac_boy: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/wiki 11:41:44 <drac_boy> oh right, didn't know it was the same page you were talking about 11:43:33 <peter1138> V453000, but it's unrealistic! 11:44:33 <peter1138> what is 'extra' ? 11:45:46 <peter1138> and that rainbow thing 11:46:29 <V453000> stuff :) 11:46:49 <V453000> extra are trains which realistic people should not trifle with as they can melt brains 11:47:47 <drac_boy> heh? 11:48:03 <peter1138> ah 11:48:07 <peter1138> mentally disturbed class 11:48:27 <V453000> the rainbow thing specifically is trains which have faces, randomize mood upon station visit or servicing, and change power at the same time 11:48:34 <V453000> yes :) 11:49:15 <drac_boy> :) 11:49:16 <V453000> trains which look like slugs, badass modern steamer, minecraft inspired trains 11:49:31 <V453000> pretty much covers the extra category 11:49:43 <V453000> rest is rather normal 11:59:17 <frosch123> there is still no unicorn class 11:59:49 <Kjetil> isn't unicorns cargo ? 11:59:50 <V453000> sorry :) 11:59:53 <peter1138> robot unicorn attack 12:00:06 <Kjetil> nyankatze-planes 12:00:07 <peter1138> plays erasure as a running sound 12:00:10 <V453000> frosch123: if you tell me the stats and why such a train would be unique, maybe? .p 12:01:01 <frosch123> low capacity, instant acceleration 12:01:04 <Alberth> it is unique in its capability to transport unicorns 12:02:05 <V453000> the slugs pretty much fill that role frosch123 12:02:06 <V453000> next :) 12:02:08 <frosch123> Kjetil: unicorns are more like reindeers 12:02:48 <frosch123> V453000: it does electric sparks? 12:02:55 <V453000> it isnt just about comparing stats, it needs to have some utility, like for which network you use it, or in which situation 12:02:58 <frosch123> i think unicorns are electric trains 12:03:00 <V453000> lol 12:03:02 <frosch123> the horn is the pantograph 12:04:58 <frosch123> but yeah, i guess unicorns fit better into a rv set 12:05:04 <frosch123> or as helicopter 12:05:32 <V453000> :D 12:05:34 <V453000> helicopter it is 12:06:00 <frosch123> reindeers also work as helicopter 12:06:13 <V453000> you should stop drinking frosch123 :)) 12:06:26 <frosch123> though maybe reindeers are more for cargo, and unicorns are for pax 12:06:31 <V453000> take an example of me, I have only normal ideas 12:07:22 <frosch123> maybe you drank to much? :p 12:08:10 <drac_boy> heh ok how about both of you the hell stop drinking and whatever you still have in your glass next to the keyboard...pour it down the sink? >_< 12:08:17 <drac_boy> :P 12:08:33 <V453000> veeery bad idea drac_boy 12:08:39 <drac_boy> why? :) 12:08:43 <frosch123> hmm, ok, my sink is plastic; it might be able to deal with it 12:11:15 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:15:21 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:23:08 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:50 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-59-128.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:27:55 <Pikka> stop that 12:28:11 <__ln__> ok 12:29:04 <Pikka> unihelicornicopters 12:29:27 <Pikka> ridiculous 12:29:30 * V453000 blames frosch 12:29:51 * Pikka blames peter1138 12:31:40 <Pikka> Alberth, you want to make it so I can put rotors on the Skyranger? :D 12:32:30 <Pikka> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5414 while you're there :D 12:32:44 <Pikka> newdisastervehicles! \o/ 12:33:13 <frosch123> hmm, btw, is the newsmoke spec also of interest to you? 12:33:30 <Alberth> Pikka: OpenGFX+disasters? :) 12:33:33 <peter1138> NewSmoke! 12:33:37 <Pikka> news moke is very interesting! 12:33:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: a helicopterus? 12:33:46 <peter1138> wait, blaming me? :S 12:33:58 <Pikka> not for any specific thing, peter, just as general policy 12:34:02 <frosch123> Pikka: https://secure.openttd.org/wiki/Frosch/New_Smoke 12:34:34 <peter1138> i see 12:36:04 <Pikka> hmm, frosch123 12:36:19 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:36:39 <peter1138> callback XXX, SAUCY 12:36:58 <Pikka> so, from a quick reading, it can only create one effect at a time? 12:37:21 <Pikka> so for a ship with two funnels, rather than emitting effects constantly from both, you can only alternate between them? :) 12:37:22 <frosch123> no, 16 12:37:25 <Pikka> oh 12:37:29 <Pikka> I did say quick :) 12:37:43 <frosch123> 15 actually 12:37:44 <peter1138> Registers 100+x: Define x-th effect. 12:37:53 <Pikka> yes 12:38:04 <Pikka> Bits 0..3: Number of effects to spawn, I see now 12:38:07 <Pikka> neato :) 12:38:59 <Pikka> sounds good. aircraft with engines on fire ahoy :D 12:41:25 <Pikka> I suspect andy might want a constant effect model for his ships, though 12:41:56 <Pikka> a steam model without the "Gradually less effects when approaching max speed" 12:43:39 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:44:01 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 12:44:13 <peter1138> proportional to amount of power need to sustain velocity 12:44:21 <peter1138> do ships have power? 12:44:26 <Pikka> nope 12:44:30 <Pikka> nor weight nor drag neither 12:44:38 <peter1138> well that needs adding! 12:44:52 <Pikka> do it for planes too 12:45:01 <Pikka> let's turn OpenTTD into a flight simulator! 12:45:13 <peter1138> planes have that acceleration property, heh 12:45:25 <Pikka> yeah 12:46:11 <peter1138> weight in tons... hmm 12:46:39 <Pikka> the acceleration property for aircraft is incredibly unrealsilly 12:47:25 <Pikka> all real aircraft can accelerate to as fast as they can go practically instantaneously, in OpenTTD terms. 12:47:47 <peter1138> and instantly slow down, yes 12:48:06 <Pikka> slowing down is harder 12:48:12 <peter1138> yes 12:49:52 <Pikka> any road up 12:50:19 <Pikka> I should use FIRS sprites and make some airports 12:50:44 <Pikka> if I actually have a full set of newgrfairports ready to code, someone might be inspired to make it happen 12:50:47 <Pikka> it's a theory :) 12:51:15 <peter1138> nah, i'm all out of stuff now that station triggers work even though nothing uses them properly 12:54:11 <Pikka> draw some sailing ships for FISH if you're at a loose end :D 12:54:54 <peter1138> self wagon override 12:54:56 <peter1138> sounds fun 12:55:06 <Pikka> tres 12:55:30 <peter1138> When returning a custom effect from CB XXX, the effect is resolved similar to the rotor sprite of helicopters using an 'self' wagon-override. 12:55:47 <Pikka> mmhm 12:55:54 <peter1138> could be fun 12:56:23 <peter1138> i can't remember why it was done like that 12:56:31 <peter1138> probably cos he could 12:56:33 <Pikka> because patchman, no doubt 12:57:28 <Pikka> http://bishop.slq.qld.gov.au/view/action/singleViewer.do?dvs=1358081740539~106&locale=en_US&metadata_object_ratio=7&show_metadata=true&VIEWER_URL=/view/action/singleViewer.do?&DELIVERY_RULE_ID=10&frameId=1&usePid1=true&usePid2=true 12:57:33 <Pikka> that's a short url 12:57:35 <Pikka> http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/paintings/the-barque-scottish-prince-175665 12:57:50 <Pikka> I have been researching this here ship today, for novel purposes 12:57:50 <__ln__> may be of interest to someone, or not: http://www.vikinggrace.com/live/ 12:58:22 <peter1138> Propery YYY 12:58:26 <peter1138> Propery! 12:59:33 <Pikka> Scottish Prince belonged to the Scottish Line of soiling vessels 12:59:37 <Pikka> hooray for OCR 13:01:48 <oskari89> Was there a submarine on TTD? 13:01:57 <peter1138> yes 13:02:06 <oskari89> Is it on OpenTTD? 13:02:11 <Pikka> gurgle gurgle 13:02:20 <peter1138> yes 13:02:27 <oskari89> :D 13:02:28 <oskari89> How nice 13:02:34 <oskari89> I haven't seen that 13:02:52 <oskari89> Has someone else, and has screenshot? 13:02:52 <peter1138> do you play with disasters on? 13:03:05 <oskari89> Yes 13:03:15 <frosch123> peter1138: from the specs: "It also allows changing the look of helicopter rotors, and in the future, the look of train visual effects such as steam and diesel smoke. " 13:03:24 <frosch123> that is written there for like 7 years? 13:03:25 <peter1138> then it should appear rarely later in games 13:03:38 <peter1138> frosch123, nice 13:03:54 <Pikka> http://wiki.openttd.org/Disasters#Submarines there you are oskari89 13:04:07 <oskari89> Yup 13:04:25 <oskari89> That could launch some ICBM:s! 13:05:18 <oskari89> And could destroy nearby ships with torpedoes 13:05:50 <frosch123> you wouldn't see them in that case 13:06:08 <oskari89> Hmm 13:07:56 <oskari89> Just a torpedo wake could be nice with that nearby ship explosion 13:08:25 <oskari89> After that submarine has appeared and again disappeared 13:09:36 <Alberth> you can only destroy tracks and roads with explosions :p 13:09:47 <Alberth> and water! 13:10:23 *** Biolunar_ [~mahdi@blfd-4d083cc6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur] 13:10:25 <oskari89> Ships should be able to crash. 13:11:22 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:15:27 <peter1138> yeaH! 13:15:34 <peter1138> let's make them even more useless 13:15:49 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:16:44 * drac_boy thinks peter1138 is not caring for towns that are stuck with lot of water surrounding them :P 13:16:46 <drac_boy> heh heh 13:17:11 <peter1138> more profitable to bridge it 13:17:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24912 /trunk/src (bridge_map.h tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp) (2013-01-13 13:17:12 UTC) 13:17:18 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5389]: Upgrading bridges could steal road types. (adf88) 13:17:27 <peter1138> road types! 13:17:54 <peter1138> i think no. of towns should be scaled by water percentage 13:18:38 <drac_boy> peter1138 actually thats not quite the case.. a simple tug-sized boat costs less than even the wooden bridge 13:18:45 <drac_boy> :) 13:18:59 <peter1138> costs less, yes 13:19:08 <peter1138> but makes near to 0 money 13:20:17 <drac_boy> you're wrong...its only a runcost of 1-3K per year depending on size .. and even only 10 passengers each month is still much more than that (although if you're using reducedpayment grf I dunno then) 13:20:20 <drac_boy> :) 13:20:43 <peter1138> per month? 13:20:48 <peter1138> are you playing with day length? 13:20:53 <drac_boy> nope 13:27:37 *** jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 13:30:46 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:46:33 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-59-128.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:06:07 *** chester_ [~chester@95-25-109-94.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 14:11:28 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:17:02 <oskari89> How about disaster propability 14:17:15 <oskari89> It could be adjusted? 14:17:43 <oskari89> Nowadays there's too few disasters. 14:18:15 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:23:20 <jasperthecat1> Occasionally, disasters happen. 14:45:17 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:13 <peter1138> woo, restriction 14:58:54 *** efess [~Efess@ool-18bfeb53.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #openttd 15:01:55 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-59-128.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 15:07:39 *** BtbN [~btbn@btbn.de] has quit [Quit: Bye] 15:11:37 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 15:17:43 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:21:55 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:31:35 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 15:37:29 *** jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 15:53:31 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 16:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause> if i were a moderator, i'd ban andy and dave from the BR-whatever topic 16:05:39 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 16:09:34 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:43 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:13:23 <drac_boy> eddi hmm I can't even make sense of their weird useless replies indeed :/ 16:15:28 <drac_boy> then come to think about it andynorth has been sounding drunk for a while in here too 16:15:41 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:16:57 <V453000> wtf is the problem there in the first place? Someone discovered that bros is not moving for 7 years or how many? 16:24:45 <drac_boy> V453000 basically andy was "whining" about leadership and useless britishs 16:24:54 <drac_boy> bit too strange...for me -_- 16:25:13 <V453000> cant say he is wrong 16:25:35 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:45:25 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: andy has been mocking and trolling the BROS development for years 16:46:08 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:46:31 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 16:51:04 <Eddi|zuHause> while all that he says may be true, it's still pointless and non-constructive 16:52:41 *** longbyte1 [~chatzilla@cpe-66-69-45-106.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:52:46 <longbyte1> Hi 16:54:13 <drac_boy> hi longbyte1? 16:54:37 <longbyte1> How do I improve my appalling local authority rating 16:54:52 <V453000> oh I didnt know Eddi|zuHause :) hm :) 16:55:47 <drac_boy> longbyte1 do you already have passenger vehicles running to the town or not yet? 16:56:14 <longbyte1> nop 16:56:21 <longbyte1> making a monorail 16:56:30 <drac_boy> longbyte1 oh...let me guess: you plowed over a lot of trees? 16:57:47 <drac_boy> well if you don't have any services running already your only three choices are 1. plant a lot of tree inside the townzone area 2. bribe the mayor (at a risk of being blocked out) or 3. skip that one town 16:57:52 *** TimTh3Enchant3r [4352779a@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:58:09 <TimTh3Enchant3r> when i try to build a station it is blocked off 16:58:21 *** TimTh3Enchant3r [4352779a@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [] 17:00:22 <Eddi|zuHause> longbyte1: the rating VERY SLOWLY recovers if you don't build anything in that town, and faster if you have stations that you service frequently 17:00:59 <Eddi|zuHause> longbyte1: for the next town, you should start with a bus service before you prepare the land for your station. and build the station first and then build the tracks 17:03:04 <drac_boy> heh thats one thing I wish some players could learn: when theres a lot of trees, build only station tiles first :-> 17:03:59 <drac_boy> anyway need to start some lunch now :-s 17:04:02 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 17:11:50 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:16:07 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:18:10 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:29:40 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 17:34:42 *** longbyte1 [~chatzilla@cpe-66-69-45-106.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0/20130104151925]] 17:43:04 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 18:02:08 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:04:26 <Eddi|zuHause> "Exercise 10.1: Simple sets are not cylinders." <-- sometimes these things are really funny :p 18:09:19 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:09:27 <andythenorth> tickety tock 18:11:07 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:11:19 <Alberth> andy! 18:11:21 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 18:11:44 <Alberth> seen my PM ? 18:11:56 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:12:27 <Alberth> andythenorth: http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/web_translate.png this one :) 18:13:15 <andythenorth> Alberth: looking now ;) 18:13:22 <andythenorth> bit baby-minding right now 18:15:40 <andythenorth> Alberth: does it use any python framework? 18:15:44 <andythenorth> or raw wsgi? 18:15:51 <Alberth> bottle 18:16:11 <Alberth> http://bottlepy.org/docs/stable/index.html 18:16:31 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:16:34 <Alberth> experimenting with Python 3 ;) 18:17:01 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:17:04 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:17:08 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-011-072.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:17:50 <andythenorth> it probably has some kind of templating thing 18:17:51 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-011-072.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 18:17:55 <andythenorth> I could skin it for you, not today mind 18:19:38 <Alberth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2050/ 18:19:58 <Alberth> quite trivial :) 18:22:29 <andythenorth> straightforward :P 18:23:27 <andythenorth> hrm 18:23:52 <andythenorth> take care not to disable escaping on any user-submitted strings ;) 18:24:37 <andythenorth> oh it has a base_template 18:24:37 <andythenorth> good 18:25:07 <andythenorth> bbl 18:25:08 <andythenorth> maybe 18:25:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 18:30:04 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 18:32:01 <peter1138> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MTy42u2ojkw/Tv9KHwEbpUI/AAAAAAAABK4/1irZshgO9OU/s1600/living-in-osaka-stadium.jpg 18:34:27 <__ln__> .... but why? 18:34:46 <peter1138> indeed 18:37:42 <SpComb> must be a paintball arena 18:39:49 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:40:25 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:45:41 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 18:45:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24913 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2013-01-13 18:45:36 UTC) 18:45:49 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:50 <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 115 changes by siu238X 18:45:51 <DorpsGek> japanese - 36 changes by kokubunzi 18:45:52 <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 33 changes by Stabilitronas 18:45:53 <DorpsGek> polish - 1 changes by wojteks86 18:45:54 <DorpsGek> serbian - 5 changes by voodoo84 18:50:01 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 18:57:44 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:25:05 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 19:26:19 <Supercheese> Man, the word for "airplane" in German is cool 19:26:38 <Supercheese> then again, a lot of German words are cool 19:31:46 <Ammler> German is a kalte language 19:34:08 <peter1138> maybe 90% water was a bit too much 19:42:50 <Wolf01> 'night all 19:42:58 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 19:43:49 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-59-128.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:49:25 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51:02 <Supercheese> How is vehicle power quantized? To the nearest horsepower? 19:51:09 <Supercheese> 10hp? 19:51:25 <peter1138> quantized where? 19:51:38 <Supercheese> Smallest possible variation when defining 19:51:38 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:51:54 <peter1138> for trains its 1hp 19:51:59 <Supercheese> Ah, road vehicles 19:52:01 <Supercheese> that's what you meant 19:52:08 <peter1138> for rvs it's 10hp 19:52:13 <peter1138> 1 = 10hp 19:52:18 <Supercheese> roger 19:52:24 <peter1138> dodger 19:52:32 <Supercheese> Well, my single horse is going to be a mighty powerful one, then :P 19:52:40 <peter1138> sadly so 19:53:04 <peter1138> it's cos rv power is a single byte, unfortunately 19:53:05 <peter1138> hmm 19:53:11 <Supercheese> He's either Superhorse, or so decrepit he can't even get out of the depot 19:53:54 <peter1138> should've been a word 19:54:03 <peter1138> but... patchman :S 19:54:52 <peter1138> it's in 10hp for cb36 too :-( 19:55:09 <Rubidium> but even then 1 HP is too much for one horse 19:55:20 <peter1138> float powr! 19:55:49 <Supercheese> 1 HP is above average for a single horse, yeah 19:55:54 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:56:31 <Supercheese> no way to influence cornering speed of road vehicles? 19:56:42 <Supercheese> they always slow by the same ratio? 19:57:03 <Supercheese> to the same fraction of max speed* rather 19:58:42 *** CornishPasty [uid158@id-158.hillingdon.irccloud.com] has joined #openttd 20:02:17 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 20:20:19 <Supercheese> New Eyecandy road vehicles up 20:22:27 <peter1138> iirc the calculations all convert it to KW 20:22:42 <peter1138> it's just the property that is lame 20:22:53 <Supercheese> :| 20:23:31 <frosch123> grfv9! 20:23:36 <frosch123> all 64bit, all si units 20:23:54 <Supercheese> Oh now I know why the horse is 10 hp, it's the same size as an apartment building 20:23:56 <Supercheese> :P 20:24:33 <Supercheese> Though for all its inconsistencies, the OTTD "scale" is very visually pleasing 20:25:31 <frosch123> just make it a unicorn 20:25:43 <peter1138> grfv9! all unicorns 20:25:52 <frosch123> good idea! 20:26:23 <Supercheese> Toyland2Ponyland.grf 20:26:42 <Supercheese> Downloads: 49212771167 20:27:06 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 20:37:44 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 20:37:59 <drac_boy> hi 20:38:09 <Supercheese> Howdy 20:39:48 <drac_boy> how're you? 20:40:31 <Supercheese> Sleepy, didn't get much last night 20:42:04 <drac_boy> ic 20:44:20 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d083cc6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:49:30 <drac_boy> well I kinda had the same thing...had a hour of nap after lunch tho :) 20:49:47 <drac_boy> been a bit lazy most of the afternoon up to now...working on kernel+tool options now tho :) 20:51:45 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 20:55:30 <peter1138> lol @ giant screenshot 20:56:25 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:59:01 <Supercheese> also the wrong forum 21:00:22 <frosch123> who? what? where? why? 21:00:48 <Rubidium> when? 21:00:52 <Supercheese> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=63976 21:00:57 <Supercheese> Warning: giant inline image 21:01:01 <frosch123> thanks, i knew i was missing something 21:01:29 <Supercheese> Oh, user is currently editing that post 21:02:07 <Supercheese> Guess my report is no longer valid :S 21:05:28 *** Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 21:10:30 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:20:14 <frosch123> night 21:20:17 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd730.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:24 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:32:59 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:46:12 * peter1138 smirks at the existence of a 2.0 thread 21:48:14 <peter1138> whatever happened to the bridge pool? 21:49:54 <Supercheese> the 2.0 thread is filled with empty wishes; people should work on something if they want to see it happen 21:50:31 <Supercheese> Before I started making grfs, I was guilty of wishing for stuff, but I got fed up of that feeling and learned NML :P 21:53:16 <__ln__> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21005813 steam underground 21:53:46 <Supercheese> nice 21:55:34 *** St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:55:36 <Supercheese> poor HVAC system must've had a fit with the exhausts 22:01:44 *** chester_ [~chester@95-25-109-94.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:54 <Snail> 2.0 thread? 22:02:13 <Supercheese> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=47238 22:03:30 <peter1138> Supercheese, secret about the london underground: it's not all underground 22:07:21 <drac_boy> peter1138 indeed..nothing like watching tube trains running on ground level or even elevated lines :) 22:07:36 <peter1138> yeah 22:07:43 <drac_boy> actually...I think I have to rib stimrol a bit about this... running ukrs2 tube trains on ground level :P 22:08:06 <Stimrol> what? 22:09:06 <drac_boy> mm didn't think you'll be around stimrol...you know..these little red/white or all-white trains running at slow speed on the 3rd rail tracks? :) 22:09:31 <drac_boy> if not then you hadn't been watching enough games :p 22:09:39 <peter1138> london underground uses 4th rail! 22:10:05 <Stimrol> I pretend I understand you :) 22:10:34 <Supercheese> Did I get a refit on fake subways to above ground yet? *checks code* 22:10:53 <Supercheese> Can't even remember what I have and have not done yet :P 22:11:58 <drac_boy> peter1138 I agree but nutracks probably didn't want to introduce something parallel to 3rd rail tracks that would have little function outside uk grfs 22:12:25 *** jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:14:28 <Snail> peter1138: right now, one of OTTD's options enable us to either allow or disallow 90-degree curves from the game 22:14:41 <peter1138> yes 22:14:53 <Snail> could it be possible to add an option for each railtype to always allow 90-degrees curves, regardless of the player's choice? 22:15:04 <peter1138> why? 22:15:14 <Snail> NG has tighter curve radiuses in RL, and this could be a way to mimic this in a game 22:15:16 <drac_boy> snail if player didn't want it why should grf force it? 22:15:31 <drac_boy> theres a reason its a manual option 22:15:40 <Supercheese> GRF parameter...? 22:15:46 * Supercheese likes parameters 22:15:48 <Snail> because if we did that, NG could have an advantage over SG in the game too (same advantage that it has in RL) 22:16:17 * jasperthecat1 is right with Supercheese. 22:16:26 <peter1138> 90° bends just cause issues with routing 22:17:02 <Snail> even when it's allowed by the player? 22:17:19 <peter1138> only then 22:17:55 <Snail> so you mean that, currently, if I play OTTD allowing 90-degrees curves, I will have issued with routing? 22:18:00 <Terkhen> good night 22:18:03 <Snail> *issues not issued 22:18:57 <peter1138> dunno, may have been resolved now 22:20:36 <Snail> if it's resolved, then adding such an option wouldn't hurt...? 22:23:09 <planetmaker> it only makes sense to allow different curve speeds imho. Implementing different PF for different rails is... bad. It breaks many things 22:23:16 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... random suggestion: the (climate) availability flags currently have 4 bits free, so add these flags: 7) do not ask for prototype offer (wagons have this by default) 6) do not randomise introduction date 5) make introduction date depend on another vehicle (list of vehicle-ids in another property, minimum of all these vehicles is taken) 4) make retirement date depend on another vehicle (list like in 5, but maximum is taken) 22:23:57 <peter1138> there's compatible railtypes to consider 22:24:10 <planetmaker> e.g. the network suddently is broken, if you convert railtypes. The user has no way to check which RT has which rules. 22:26:01 <planetmaker> And I really also see little gameplay advantage over the existing different curve speed limits which you can already implement 22:26:33 <Supercheese> Yeah, you can give lots of benefits to 45° NG rails over normal rails 22:26:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm with Snail here, NG having 90° turns would be a unique advantage that brings "sense" into NG. only problem would be how to tell the user 22:27:15 <Snail> planetmaker: it wouldn't be about speed limits, since NG is about slow trains anyway 22:27:47 <Snail> it would be about tighter curves that would allow the construction of an NG network on mountainous areas, or areas that are more difficult to reach (as it is in RL) 22:28:26 <Eddi|zuHause> well you could make SG trains have like 5km/h speed limits, but you can't currently control the speed limits that fine grained (yet) 22:28:56 <peter1138> the only time i ever need 90° bends is when i misplace a depot 22:28:57 <peter1138> hmm 22:29:15 <planetmaker> ^^ 22:29:49 <planetmaker> I would actually have removed that option ;-) But it breaks backward savegame capability 22:30:21 <Eddi|zuHause> it breaks ships, the setting should be split... 22:30:45 <Snail> we should have one setting per transport type (one for trains, one for ships) 22:31:39 <Snail> and this would be about adding an option to the railtype definition to "ignore the user's 90-degrees curve setting", nothing else 22:31:51 <planetmaker> that'd be very bad. -1 22:32:02 <planetmaker> "ignore user settings" is a bug implemented 22:33:21 <Snail> but even having the option of "not allowing 90-degrees curves" for all railtypes sounds fishy to me 22:33:39 <Snail> this would allow more flexibility across the railtypes 22:33:48 <planetmaker> yes. 90° should always be forbidden. Looks ugly ;-) 22:34:21 <planetmaker> And using different routing for different railtypes is not desirable. There's no control for the user I can envision to see that 22:35:14 <planetmaker> And I, as user, want to forbid trains on *every* railtype 90° turns. 22:35:27 <planetmaker> that's what the setting is for. 22:35:33 <planetmaker> And that's what I use it for. 22:36:10 <planetmaker> why would a newgrf silently break that? And send me wondering? 22:36:15 <planetmaker> (no, not readme!) 22:36:30 <Snail> readme is there to be read :p 22:37:00 <Snail> we've also got an in-game version of the readme now 22:37:19 <planetmaker> that's of no importance here really 22:37:43 <Snail> if you don't want 90-degrees turns, you would just not build them. But other users might want to exploit this feature, which comes from RL btw, so they should have the chance to 22:38:06 <Snail> otherwise NG's advantages really boil down to lower prices and eye-candy 22:38:08 <planetmaker> Snail: that assumption of yours is wrong: not building != not trains using them 22:38:19 <planetmaker> I build them for impossible ways to not be taken. Like X 22:38:34 <peter1138> simple X crossings, yeah 22:38:47 <peter1138> anyway, i don't think the pathfinder can switch mid-pathfinding 22:39:27 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: it would be a property of the vehicle's railtype, not the railtype the vehicle is on 22:39:35 <planetmaker> No, really. Pathfinder should be uniform for transport type 22:40:10 <Eddi|zuHause> so a NG vehicle on dual-gauge track can do 90°, but a SG vehicle on the same dual-gauge track can't 22:40:12 <planetmaker> And tbh, I'm quite fine with NG being low-priced eye candy. Nothing wrong with that 22:40:51 <Snail> I agree with Eddi here if this can be implemented 22:40:55 <peter1138> i think you should just allow 90° bends if you want 90° bends 22:40:56 <Supercheese> Also offer them as trams? There's yer 90° turns :P 22:41:02 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: that's even worse to explain IMHO 22:41:27 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: just put it in the purchase menu "this vehicle can do 90° turns" 22:41:31 <planetmaker> yeah. Just enable 90° turns and don't build them where you don't need them ;-) 22:41:41 <Snail> why? the explanation could be, "NG trains can do 90-degrees turns" 22:41:55 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: and if I've disabled them it does them nontheless? Nah 22:42:00 <Snail> like we have tilting trains 22:42:46 <Snail> planetmaker: yes, because this would only apply to special trains. Tilting trains can do curves at a higher speed, now certain trains could do sharper bends 22:43:06 <planetmaker> Snail: NG is just a track. Nothing special. Next one allows them on funky rail. Or so. Or funky trains. Wherever (vehicle or rail) that's added. And still render the setting void. And lead to pointless wonder and bug reports 22:43:30 <planetmaker> Snail: slower doesn't change the way they can go. 90° changes *where* they go 22:43:51 <planetmaker> so that's something completely different 22:44:19 <Snail> yes, but players would know if it's written in the purchase menu, so there wouldn't be any bug reports 22:44:36 <planetmaker> no-one guarantees that it's written there 22:45:14 <Snail> well it'd be up to the newGRF developer. If he sets this specific type of trains to do 90-degree curves, he will also code the text in the purchase menu 22:45:20 <planetmaker> what stops you to just play with 90° turns enabled? 22:45:27 <planetmaker> what's wrong with that? you obviously want that 22:45:30 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the purchase menu should display more things anyway... currently it's up to the NewGRF to tell the user about tilt or railtype or... 22:45:33 <planetmaker> use it. it's there 22:45:38 <planetmaker> for you. for this purpose 22:45:56 <Snail> planetmaker: because if I put 90-degree turns, it applies to *all* railtypes and *all* trains 22:45:57 <Eddi|zuHause> and the worst thing is: NewGRF-text isn't displayed in the prototype offer 22:46:06 <Snail> while my point is to give an advantage to NG 22:46:19 <planetmaker> Snail: don't build 90° on the one where you don't want it... 22:46:28 <planetmaker> then you got the advantage there 22:46:49 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that's a completely stupid argument 22:46:56 <Snail> no because of the "X" crossings 22:47:12 <Snail> the same argument you had against my idea btw :p 22:47:15 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: like "don't build fast trains, now you have an advantage for slow trains" 22:48:02 <Snail> this is why such a switch would be useful 22:48:18 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: and what's now wrong with giving a curve speed of approx 1km/h for non-NG trains and 90° and 100 km/h for NG? 22:48:25 <NGC3982> Evening, animals. 22:48:25 <planetmaker> existing concept. problem solved 22:48:36 <Snail> that wouldn't be realistic 22:48:48 <planetmaker> realism is no argument 22:48:52 <planetmaker> gameplay is. 22:48:54 <Snail> well, indeed it is 22:49:03 <planetmaker> and that is in the curve speed's favour 22:49:10 <Snail> my whole point was realism (NG has tighter curves than SG) 22:49:20 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: because you can't prevent trains from taking a X crossing, you would block it for AAAAAGES 22:49:55 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: and 1km/h curve speed limit is currently NOT an existing feature 22:50:17 <Snail> planetmaker: so for the gameplay point of view, it's not advisable to put such a limit 22:50:20 <Eddi|zuHause> you can currently not define slower limits than the default railtype, only faster 22:50:20 * NGC3982 doesn't like 90 degree turns. 22:50:41 <peter1138> but 90° turns are realistic! 22:50:43 <peter1138> (what?) 22:51:09 <planetmaker> Snail: from gameplay POV different PF is the worst - you don't see the PF for single vehicles on the map overview 22:51:18 <planetmaker> and that's where you actually analyse your network 22:51:46 <Snail> peter1138: what I'm saying is that NG would have tighter radius than SG, and this is the only way to implement this in OTTD 22:54:11 <Supercheese> other than trams 22:54:33 <Supercheese> which can't do diagonals, so are bad⢠22:56:41 <Eddi|zuHause> there are SG trams as well :p 22:56:49 <Snail> there are BG trams too :p 22:57:04 <Snail> toronto's trams are broad gauge for instance 22:57:10 <Eddi|zuHause> (although those always look weird to me) 22:57:55 <planetmaker> iff there should be a setting ,the sane way would be a min_curve_radius setting. with a default of 0. And you could define larger min_curve_radius for other railtypes 22:58:15 <planetmaker> it would at the same time be more versatile 22:58:29 <Snail> but it would have 2 settings 22:58:39 <Snail> allow / disallow 90-degrees curves 22:58:41 <planetmaker> (so, the "allow 90°) is by far not "the only possibility". 22:59:05 * NGC3982 could use that. 22:59:08 <planetmaker> I meant railtype property 22:59:20 <Snail> why? you mean disallowing continuous curves? such as two back-to-back 45-degrees curves? 22:59:36 <planetmaker> that's not a curve 22:59:41 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but curve radius > 1 would be difficult to check in the pathfinder 22:59:44 <peter1138> \_/ 22:59:51 <planetmaker> ^^ curve 23:00:02 <peter1138> \__/ 23:00:42 <Snail> \_/ would be built with 2 45-degrees curves... from diagonal to horizontal then to the other diagonal... on multiple squares 23:01:04 <planetmaker> yes. if you meant that, I didn't get it as that 23:01:06 <michi_cc> Personally I wouldn't want different 90° settings all over the place as they are not discoverable enough (== stuff you can only figure out by reading the manual or by watching your trains suddenly break because you changed railtypes). 23:01:25 <planetmaker> +1 @ michi_cc 23:01:50 <Eddi|zuHause> -0.5 @ michi_cc 23:02:00 <Snail> michi_cc: my idea was to change nothing in the current way things are set... only to add an option for new railtypes 23:02:19 <Snail> that one, connected to the text in the purchase menu, should give the users all info they need 23:02:23 <planetmaker> haha :-) that's the point, Snail. That exactly would add them "everywhere" 23:02:24 <peter1138> +â @ michi_cc 23:02:31 <michi_cc> An improved curve speed property makes much more sense as the current one is basically useless (lowest value much too high). 23:02:41 <planetmaker> +1 there, too 23:02:59 <Snail> planetmaker: why everywhere? the newGRF developer should specifically set this 23:03:04 <peter1138> does curve speed even work properly yet? 23:03:13 <Snail> and no one would unless they have a specific reason (such as NG) 23:03:21 <peter1138> with regards to shorter vehicles 23:03:26 <Eddi|zuHause> 66666 posts in openttd general... 23:03:27 <planetmaker> Snail: yes. And every railtype does its own thing. Thus you need to check everywhere 23:03:36 <planetmaker> and also possibly every vehicle 23:03:39 <michi_cc> peter1138: Not really. 23:03:51 <planetmaker> Snail: "no one would"... you bet they would! 23:03:52 <peter1138> it's still done on number of parts rather than actual length then 23:04:05 <Snail> you'd only have to check in the purchase menu, nowhere else 23:04:21 <planetmaker> and check the tile's railtype etc 23:04:39 <planetmaker> everywhere 23:05:02 <Snail> not if it applies to the vehicles set on a certain railtype, instead of the railtype itself 23:05:05 <Supercheese> Crap, childsprites don't have their own bounding boxes 23:05:12 <michi_cc> It's especially only done for the part the train is on, so e.g. for a two tile train the limits is basically non-existent. 23:05:16 <planetmaker> and vehicles with compatible railtypes etc? 23:05:20 <peter1138> Supercheese, that's the whole purpose of childsprites 23:05:29 <planetmaker> which run on 14 of the 16 ones? Or which run on the "universal" railtype? 23:05:33 <Supercheese> I was just using them because they're way easier to align @_@ 23:05:35 <Snail> you buy a vehicle and you check in the purchase menu. Compatible vehicles wouldn't benefit from this 23:05:46 <peter1138> do you need them to have their own bounding boxes? 23:05:47 <Supercheese> friggin a 23:05:49 <Supercheese> Yes 23:05:53 <Snail> planetmaker: it's the same example of the dual-gauge railtype Eddi gave us 23:05:55 <Supercheese> Sigh, time to re-re-realign 23:05:58 <peter1138> you're doing objects aren't you? 23:06:00 <Supercheese> yep 23:06:01 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: ONLY the railtype the vehicle is defined for 23:06:07 <peter1138> so... it doesn't really matter, surely? 23:06:09 <peter1138> wq 23:06:14 <Supercheese> I will switch to building 23:06:20 <Supercheese> just... alignment, blegh 23:06:23 <Snail> NG trains would do the curves, SG wouldn't. So, no need to check the railtype. Just the train 23:06:28 <peter1138> vehicles can't use object tiles, can they? 23:06:30 <Snail> and that's written in the purchase menu 23:06:36 <Supercheese> nope 23:06:44 <peter1138> so there's not really much sorting needed 23:06:50 <Supercheese> Oh, adjacent stuff looks strange 23:06:53 <peter1138> therefore the bounding box doesn't matter hugely 23:06:54 <planetmaker> Snail: and how do I know which of all my black steam engines now ... can do that? 23:06:57 <Supercheese> should overlap but doesn't 23:07:00 <planetmaker> when I just look at the map? 23:07:14 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: unless you add objects with statemachines (onramps, drawbridges, ...) :p 23:07:36 <Supercheese> these childsprites are a pixel or two overlapping the tile adjacent 23:07:43 <peter1138> norty 23:07:54 <Supercheese> and if you build a ship depot on the adjacent tile, they should be hidden by it, but aren't 23:07:58 <Snail> you knew when you built them. They're most likely running on networks of their own, such as NG. This would be the key of the feature 23:08:06 <Supercheese> I figure bounding boxes would sort that... no? 23:08:15 <peter1138> well a ship depot is at the back of the tile 23:08:21 <planetmaker> Snail: with 1000 vehicles I don't know... also not in a MP game. Or a game I got from s/o else 23:08:47 <Supercheese> Oh god, FISH ships are huge 23:09:03 <planetmaker> and don't assume separate networks... one network with... different branches and different RT on the branches maybe 23:09:06 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you don't know each vehicle's speedlimit or railtype or tilt flag either... 23:09:12 <Supercheese> they have way more overlap issues 23:09:27 <peter1138> none of that stops it routing 23:09:30 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: yes. But I know they all can go every tile, if I use compatible RTs 23:09:31 <peter1138> Supercheese, yes 23:09:51 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: thus I can verify my network without looking at vehicles at all 23:10:00 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: it affects routing if it's electric or battery powered 23:10:02 <Snail> planetmaker: but you don't know which railtypes they're compatible with 23:10:27 <Eddi|zuHause> or "hybrid" or "DC" or ... 23:10:28 <planetmaker> Snail: you always have to assume that there's one RT which is compatible with *every* other RT 23:10:30 <Snail> so you don't know if certain engines can go on non-electrified tracks too, if they're now running on electrified 23:10:51 <peter1138> change the advanced setting from permit/deny to permit/deny/newgrfdecides 23:10:55 <planetmaker> you don't use it. I don't. But it exists 23:11:03 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i told you already that it doesn't matter 23:11:16 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the vehicle defines which railtype it's built for 23:11:18 <peter1138> change all occurances of checking for the setting to test the railtype (which also tests the setting) 23:11:21 <peter1138> provide patch 23:11:25 <peter1138> then talk ;) 23:11:51 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: so a NG vehicle can do 90° turns on universal (multi-gauge) track, the SG vehicle can't 23:11:55 <peter1138> shouldn't be too hard 23:11:57 <Eddi|zuHause> no magic involved 23:12:37 <peter1138> i want magic :-( 23:13:13 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: then still: introduce a setting for vehicles with the min_curve_radius. And not a "allow 90°" 23:13:22 * Supercheese likes magic 23:13:44 <Snail> planetmaker: how to define min_curve_radius? 23:13:45 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it's an ugly workaround, not a solution (and i also told you why) 23:15:54 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, that's not a workaround, that's extending it 23:16:19 <Eddi|zuHause> sorry, i misread, i thought i read speed limit 23:16:29 <Snail> ok... so how to define min_curve_radius? 23:16:31 <planetmaker> Snail: curve_radius is defined already... same as for curve_speed_limit 23:16:45 <peter1138> min_curve_radius would be a lot more work 23:16:52 <planetmaker> it would indeed 23:17:05 <peter1138> i don't think curve radius is a pathfinder penalty, is it? 23:17:23 <Eddi|zuHause> no 23:17:29 <planetmaker> not sure... guess not 23:19:41 <planetmaker> Snail: http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Max_Curve_Speed 23:20:05 <Snail> yes I was looking at it now... 23:20:27 <Snail> but this obviously doesn't include 90-degrees turns, does it? 23:20:39 <peter1138> so? 23:20:46 <peter1138> why not? 23:21:17 <planetmaker> the author there simply didn't care. Of course it applies 23:21:29 <peter1138> curve length in tiles = 0 23:23:15 <Snail> you mean this? http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Railtypes#Curve_Speed_advantage_multiplier_.2811.29 23:26:08 *** jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 23:26:16 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:26:46 * Supercheese wishes sprites would magically align themselves 23:27:25 <planetmaker> write a script, Supercheese. I'm sure it's feasible. For some cases ;-) 23:27:33 <Supercheese> @_@ 23:28:32 <Supercheese> Perhaps I'm being somewhat of a perfectionist... 23:31:16 *** mikegrb [~michael@mikegrb.netop.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:59 <peter1138> Snail, related to that, yes 23:34:22 <Snail> then I think it would be an interesting feature 23:34:40 <Snail> but harder to implement than just a switch to allow 90-degrees curves, I presume? 23:35:26 <peter1138> yup 23:39:05 <Snail> any pathfinding issues with this one (i.e. setting a min curve radius)? 23:41:37 <planetmaker> same as with the other one. or even more. But the "better" setting as more general 23:43:01 <Snail> this one would be even harder to explain for a newGRF author 23:43:16 <Snail> just allowing 90-degrees curves could be explained through some text in the purchase window 23:43:45 <Snail> this one instead would require more... such as "This vehicle can do 90-degrees turns", "This vehicle can't do two consecutive 45-degrees turns" etc 23:45:40 <Snail> but my guess is that curve_length=1 should always be allowed, otherwise trains couldn't enter a depot that's perpendicular to a stretch of track 23:46:06 <Snail> we should build longer tracks going into the depot if we disallowed curve_length=1 23:48:12 <drac_boy> snail both first-time human and many AI always build depot right by the track tho....so...I dunno what to say about that :-> 23:48:32 *** mikegrb [~michael@mikegrb.netop.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 23:48:38 <drac_boy> neverminding the ones that build depot in front of the 2-platform station junction too (although I guess that was in TT tutorials too) 23:48:39 <Snail> exactly, that's what I was thinking about 23:49:00 <Snail> it would be a nice extension, but how useful? 23:49:05 <drac_boy> mm 23:49:38 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:34 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@2001:470:dc50:b0::21] has joined #openttd 23:51:29 <NGC3982> I think i, for the first time, almost burned my girl friends house down today 23:52:13 <Supercheese> I hope you're not planning for a second time :O 23:53:26 <NGC3982> Due to a faulty light bulb in her bathroom, i put a live candle in there 23:53:39 <NGC3982> Right under the bathroom mirror cabinette 23:53:44 <NGC3982> Not the best thing ive ever done. 23:54:51 <peter1138> oh dear 23:56:10 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:57:03 <NGC3982> We luckily found it before anything catched fire 23:57:21 <NGC3982> But the cabinette was ruined, and i have spent the day reparing it 23:58:37 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-5d856f32.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd