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00:13:06 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:16:51 *** amiller [~amiller@c-69-255-193-198.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 00:22:28 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:03:58 *** DabuYu [DoubleYou@128.250.79.186] has quit [] 01:24:25 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:40:27 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.153.126] has joined #openttd 01:50:06 *** DDR [~chatzilla@S01060019dbe06285.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 01:54:19 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.153.126] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0/20130730113002]] 02:09:38 *** montalvo [~montalvo@macbook60.icrar.org] has joined #openttd 02:12:57 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.153.126] has joined #openttd 02:22:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6BD56.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:39:24 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c83-253-81-174.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Sleepantiems.] 03:39:20 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 03:41:56 <Supercheese> Good lord, I've had a typo in my forum signature for ages now, just noticed 04:48:47 *** kais58__1 [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 04:50:30 *** kais58___ [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66060.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD54DA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 04:59:09 *** kais58__1 is now known as kais58|AFK 05:27:18 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-097-056.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 05:55:30 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.153.126] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0/20130730113002]] 06:10:51 *** DDR [~chatzilla@S01060019dbe06285.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:12:04 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 06:20:12 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 06:35:31 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:54:55 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:07:30 *** Pinkbeast [damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:08:47 <dihedral> good morning 07:20:25 *** Pecio [~fgh@abzy3.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 07:31:16 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:33:42 *** maddy_ [~plaiho@v44.woima.fi] has joined #openttd 07:33:55 <maddy_> hello 07:36:22 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 07:38:02 <maddy_> since the game has a scripting language used for AIs and gamescripts, I am thinking it could also be used for small in-game scripts to control signals and the like 07:38:18 <maddy_> similar to the programmable signals patch, but better 07:40:05 <maddy_> what do you guys think? 07:40:16 <planetmaker> hi 07:41:51 <planetmaker> maddy_, in principle that's thinkable. Practically you then have no means to tell what a signal acts on. Even less so, if they're freely programmable by scripting language. Additionally the state of signals is not exposed nor is there any interface to access them other than by tile and direction information by the train controller 07:44:59 <maddy_> I am thinking for things like priorities and stuff, couldn't I just add one programmable signal for these special cases, then attach a script to it, and the script is run everytime the signal state needs to be checked 07:46:13 <maddy_> at the script level, I would really only need to know the state of the nearby signals, if I can get that in some meaningful way 07:46:59 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:47:08 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.41.233.224] has joined #openttd 07:48:42 <maddy_> of course if I could get information about the incoming train to the signal script, then it'd be really easy to do things like splits based on cargo type, etc 07:55:02 <dihedral> maddy_, i think that would impose nasty load on the server 07:55:06 <dihedral> and the client 07:55:17 <dihedral> esp in multiplayer the script would have to be placed on each client 07:55:37 <dihedral> this is not the case for ai or gs 07:55:58 *** Ristovski [~rafael@ppp-seco11pa2-46-193-128.78.wb.wifirst.net] has joined #openttd 07:56:22 <planetmaker> that is not a principle problem if handled similarily to NewGRFs which also each client must have. 07:57:16 <planetmaker> But the definition of "nearby" eludes me :-) As anything you normally want can be done by means of block or path signals. Otherwise you want signals from all-over accessible for programming 07:57:38 <planetmaker> or information on whether a station is blocked etc. And then a network becomes virtually un-debuggable ;-) 07:58:43 <peter1138> signal 1 = !signal 2 07:58:47 <peter1138> signal 2 = !signal 1 07:58:49 <peter1138> YEAH BOY 07:59:48 <peter1138> actually i think i mean signal 2 = signal 1 08:00:35 <maddy_> ok, I have to go afk a bit, if this idea is at all feasibly, I will explore the possibility of trying to make some prototype of it 08:03:21 <dihedral> planetmaker, i would expect it to be an issue ;-) 08:03:56 <dihedral> distribution is not 08:05:05 <dihedral> but that is more a gut feeling, and probably worth nothing :-P 08:09:03 <peter1138> handling signal scripts like a newgrf seems fundamentally wrong, heh 08:10:21 <planetmaker> well :-) I do agree. Feasible != desirable :-) 08:11:22 <dihedral> but then why do we need to discuss other peoples desires? that just "seems fundamentally wrong" also 08:16:32 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:16:59 <peter1138> what? 08:17:41 <dihedral> depending on the desire of course 08:17:42 <dihedral> :-P 08:18:45 <peter1138> all i meant was that newgrfs are general, even if game-wide. signal scripts are going to be specific to the situation 08:19:14 <peter1138> unless you argue that you just want premade scripts for a type of junction 08:19:23 <dihedral> can a grf not add a new signal ? 08:19:29 <peter1138> in which case you could also argue for copy & paste of map chunks... 08:19:34 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-182-193-134.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:19:38 <dihedral> hehe 08:19:41 <dihedral> not again 08:20:05 <dihedral> thank you peter1138 - now i had to think of people like peter_t, muxy, yorick..... 08:20:16 <dihedral> you genius 08:22:10 <peter1138> you're welcome 08:22:22 <peter1138> i personally prefer to think of pretty women 08:26:54 * dihedral thinks of peter1138 08:27:00 <dihedral> i am trying.... 08:33:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i think a "full-blown script engine" is totally overkill for programmable signals 08:35:15 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host86-165-39-164.range86-165.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:36:25 <TinoDidriksen> Such an engine will almost certainly be used for other things in the future. 08:36:42 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i think a "script" should not be attached to a signal, but to a whole block of signals. possibly with a way to include/exclude signals. then only signals of this block can be accessed/modiified 08:37:12 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, attach it to a type of signals ;-) 08:38:24 <Eddi|zuHause> that makes absolutely no sense, this early in the morning... 08:39:17 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58__1 08:41:20 <V453000> I think programmable signals are total overkill :) especially without some simplified gui 08:42:45 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, like some SCADA system where you just graphically connect things and they start to do stuff 08:43:17 <V453000> that would be nice too, but I mainly meant something like the link graph does - draw links beetween stations - between signals in this case 08:43:32 <V453000> otherwise it is inevitable brutal mess if you cant directly see which signal logically connects to which 08:47:25 <V453000> the current solution of signal logic is nicer because it is visible, if that would be substituted by something, the feature might make at least some sense 08:48:53 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, "just pipe it to squirrel" is totally the wrong approach 08:49:06 <V453000> not .nut :) 08:49:13 <V453000> *no 08:52:25 <peter1138> dihedral, sorry, i am not a pretty woman 08:53:56 <V453000> I am I am 08:56:33 *** maddy_ [~plaiho@v44.woima.fi] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:57:08 <dihedral> V453000, not quite - you'r just a woman 08:57:10 <dihedral> :-P 08:57:21 <V453000> :( sad cow 08:57:22 <V453000> moo 08:57:27 <dihedral> :-D 08:57:54 *** maddy_ [~plaiho@v44.woima.fi] has joined #openttd 08:58:40 <maddy_> well if the idea wasn't outright rejected as impossible or totally stupid, I think I will look into it 08:59:41 <peter1138> dihedral, unless you consider any of these pretty women... http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2013/8/1/20/enhanced-buzz-30511-1375404007-15.jpg 09:05:08 <dihedral> is that you? i thought you were one of those ugly hairy women :-P 09:05:24 <dihedral> maddy_, just do not be disappointed 09:06:53 <peter1138> if you can make it work, cool 09:08:38 <maddy_> I am an ugly haired man, tho not pictured in the above link 09:09:39 <maddy_> I am not very familiar with openttd insides, which is why I am asking would such a project be possible? so I don't waste my time with something that won't work out in the end due to openttd inner mechanics 09:11:18 <dihedral> possible is one thing - feasible or sensible is the other 09:11:24 <maddy_> like, the code which determines if a signal is green or red, would it be possible to insert a 'hook' to that function, and call a script? 09:11:40 <dihedral> it would not make much sense 09:11:56 <dihedral> as you would need access to a bunch of further signals, which you do not have 09:12:09 <dihedral> at least not in the scripts 09:12:25 <maddy_> but couldn't I just pass the relevant game state (e.g. any nearby signals) to the script 09:12:38 <dihedral> erh.... 09:12:53 <dihedral> nearby signals iirc are determined by the pathfinder 09:14:09 <dihedral> obviously this also depends on the signal type you are using 09:14:17 <maddy_> sure 09:15:47 <maddy_> I will look at the code later tonight when I get a chance 09:23:09 <maddy_> I am just thinking since there already exists an embedded scripting language, like 90% of the work is already done 09:49:34 <planetmaker> maddy_, I think that much less is done to make it work. It need work on multiplayer and scripts only work server-side. But they work globally while signals work locally. And they are part of one of the most time critical things in the game: path finding 09:59:40 <maddy_> yeah there's a lot to think about, for sure 10:01:15 <maddy_> are regular signals handled on client or server side? 10:03:56 <maddy_> btw, I wasn't thinking of the scripts as separate entities like say newgrfs, but internal to the game state / save game 10:13:42 <maddy_> that should make it a bit simpler I hope 10:14:02 <dihedral> everything (with the exception of ai and gs) is handled client side 10:14:38 <maddy_> ok 10:16:10 <dihedral> to me that signal thing just shouts for desyncs :-) 10:17:11 <maddy_> I'm a total beginner when it comes to openttd source, but why? 10:17:45 <dihedral> because every client does calculations them selves, every frame has to be the exact same result of calculation 10:18:10 <dihedral> between clients there can be a lag of (default) up to 500 frames? something like that 10:18:28 *** Pinkbeast [damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk] has joined #openttd 10:18:41 <dihedral> or was it 500 ticks? 10:18:48 <dihedral> i am confusing myself now 10:19:09 <maddy_> so...if the same script is executed on 2 clients, with different cpu speeds and stuff, we could end up with different outcomes on those 2 clients 10:19:10 *** Pinkbeast [damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk] has quit [] 10:19:13 *** Pinkbeast [damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk] has joined #openttd 10:19:13 <dihedral> anyway - if something is different by a tad - allowing a train to pass a signal one one client and not for another.... 10:19:35 <roboboy> not verry good 10:19:40 <dihedral> if different cpu speeds were causing a problem there would be no multiplayer 10:20:07 <maddy_> ok, but what would desync it then? 10:20:59 <dihedral> a green on one client and a red on the server 10:22:15 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 10:29:04 *** madara [~madara@95.35.55.48] has joined #openttd 10:31:03 *** madara [~madara@95.35.55.48] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:39 <peter1138> hmm, need a decent dvb viewer 10:45:44 <peter1138> me-tv works but has annoyances 11:04:03 *** Pereba_ [~UserNick@187.59.98.120] has joined #openttd 11:10:04 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.41.233.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:10:13 *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba 11:13:46 <wakou2> Any opensuse users here? Which repo should I be getting openttd from? 11:13:54 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@000125f6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: reboot] 11:14:45 <V453000> root\beer 11:18:49 <planetmaker> wakou2, you probably want the generic OpenTTD binary from http://www.openttd.org/en/download-stable 11:19:36 <peter1138> when do we implement an auto updater? :D 11:20:48 <V453000> I was almost correct 11:21:35 <wakou2> planetmaker: don't want really to be compliling tars etc. I currently have 1.3.1 from the repo.. 11:22:33 <peter1138> the binary tar is... already compiled... 11:37:21 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 11:39:39 <Eddi|zuHause> wakou2: opensuse has a "games" repo 11:39:51 <Eddi|zuHause> which has openttd in it 11:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause> if it's not up to date, blame the manager 11:41:11 <V453000> if it is up to date, blame them anyway 11:41:17 <Eddi|zuHause> when was the last time anyone saw Ammler, anyway? 11:41:38 <V453000> long :( 11:41:46 <__ln__> @seen Ammler 11:41:46 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Ammler was last seen in #openttd 17 weeks, 0 days, 17 hours, 44 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <Ammler> oh and just for your info, those grfs are in the grfpack anyway, I posted those there for the non-pack users back then 11:54:58 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 11:58:03 *** Tom_Soft [~id@199-255-209-208.anchorfree.com] has joined #openttd 11:59:46 *** maddy_ [~plaiho@v44.woima.fi] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:00:05 *** maddy_ [~plaiho@v44.woima.fi] has joined #openttd 12:06:05 *** Tom_Soft [~id@c7ffd1d0.test.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:06:47 *** Tom_Soft [~id@37.140.99.39] has joined #openttd 12:23:27 *** montalvo [~montalvo@macbook60.icrar.org] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 12:29:51 *** Snoopey78 [~oftc-webi@p5B29ADD5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:30:02 <Snoopey78> Hello Together 12:30:27 <planetmaker> moin 12:30:31 <Snoopey78> Is there anyone of the openttd.org Homepage ? I would like to publish my Public Server Address 12:32:19 <planetmaker> :D we don't publish addresses. Have it run and it will be added to the server list 12:32:31 <planetmaker> make sure you allow 'advertizing' 12:33:03 <planetmaker> aka connection to the master server 12:33:48 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/Lan_internet 12:34:11 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/Server_advertise 12:35:08 <planetmaker> the server list at http://www.openttd.org/en/servers updates itself every few minutes w/o manual intervention 13:03:50 *** Pecio [~fgh@abzy3.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #openttd [] 13:06:08 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06:49 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 13:07:17 *** Snoopey78 [~oftc-webi@p5B29ADD5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:11 *** xT2 [~ST2@bl6-254-79.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:30:17 <maddy_> cool the openttd svn server is pretty fast 13:30:25 *** ST2 [~ST2@bl6-254-79.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 13:30:39 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you check out / 13:32:01 <V453000> beer 13:43:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6BD56.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 13:43:45 *** amiller [~amiller@c-69-255-193-198.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:48:19 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, if YOU check out / it is slow for everybody 13:48:55 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:49:22 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 13:52:52 <maddy_> where do the language files go on compile? 13:53:29 <maddy_> found them 13:54:00 <planetmaker> maddy_, make bundle && cp -Rf bundle/* server-folder 13:54:30 <maddy_> cool I got as far as to compile openttd and run it without problems 13:54:42 <maddy_> planetmaker: I'm on windows 13:55:43 <planetmaker> also windows builds have the equivalent of 'make bundle' 13:57:44 <maddy_> ok, got around it by just copying the files manually to existing openttd installation 13:59:06 <Eddi|zuHause> if you just copied the .exe and the .lng files, you forgot half of it 14:02:47 <maddy_> good point, copied the rest over too 14:19:37 *** amiller [~amiller@129-2-129-154.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #openttd 14:22:15 <dihedral> this for sure smells like .. :-) 14:27:14 <V453000> beer doesnt smell 14:28:43 <planetmaker> It does. Nicely 14:29:08 <planetmaker> it doesn't stink, though ;-) 14:31:18 <V453000> no, beer is the default, normal air is like negative 14:32:55 <V453000> therefore air negatively smells 14:41:08 <planetmaker> sorry, I forgot that :-( 14:41:58 <V453000> :> 14:42:27 <V453000> the council of alcoholism will let you go unpunished for this once 14:42:58 <maddy_> so, how does it sound if I added a new signal type, then (for that type, if a script exists), run the script in UpdateSignalsAroundSegment (signal.cpp) function? 14:48:29 <peter1138> try it and find out 14:49:50 <maddy_> yeah I gotta figure out how to run scripts first 14:51:46 * Rubidium decrees that beer is yuck and stinks ;) 14:52:34 <V453000> @kickme 14:52:36 <V453000> asdf 14:52:37 <V453000> !kickme 14:52:47 <V453000> pff 14:52:55 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 14:53:16 <V453000> your bot is weak 14:53:32 <V453000> !harakiri 14:53:34 <V453000> hm 14:54:43 * Rubidium ponders requesting the @kickme feature together with an automatic ban 14:54:50 <V453000> :d 15:06:14 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 15:10:19 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 15:10:23 <maddy_> so is there any prob with just creating a new script instance that I want to use client side? you said earlier that ai/gamescripts run on the server 15:17:32 *** killertester [~igor@pppoe-77-75-13-50.ppp.kmv.ru] has joined #openttd 15:20:19 *** killertester [~igor@pppoe-77-75-13-50.ppp.kmv.ru] has left #openttd [] 15:21:58 <peter1138> client-side actually means "all-sides" in ottd :D 15:26:20 <maddy_> it's obvious I will need a bit of help from you who know the source 15:27:30 <Eddi|zuHause> maddy_: you need to use the command system to transfer stuff to all clients (see "DoCommand" and "DoCommandP") 15:30:44 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50.107.55.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:31:33 <planetmaker> maddy_, I'd recon the MUCH easier approach would be to allow signal logic in a similar way that you can use conditional orders for vehicles 15:32:18 <Eddi|zuHause> not that nobody ever thought the order system needs a cleanup :p 15:32:29 <planetmaker> i.e. w/o resorting to scripts and hard-coding the possible choices, but allowing choice trees 15:32:33 <planetmaker> Never ever, Eddi|zuHause ;-) 15:32:55 <planetmaker> you clearly are the first to bring it up :D 15:34:07 <krinn> wonder what "MUCH easier" could mean... as if a "custom" logic can be set on signals, the server must handle all signals and send state to clients 15:35:01 <planetmaker> krinn, you'd have an "order list" for the signal. You could borrow most infrastructure for that from current order list 15:35:11 <planetmaker> if you use scripts, you'll have to re-invent all that infrastructure 15:35:35 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:35:44 <planetmaker> and additionally find means to transfer basically their source code in DoCommands 15:35:50 <planetmaker> Which have a rather limited size 15:36:13 <krinn> so signals logic remain on client side? 15:37:14 <krinn> forget it, i was thinking you were speaking about client controlling the state of signals, while you seems to speak about client able to check/react to signals state only 15:37:52 <planetmaker> clearly the client wants to be able to programme the behaviour, thus change the decision algorithm. But not the actual state 15:39:47 <krinn> that's why i see the "much easier" and think wtf! nothing scare him 15:40:12 <planetmaker> :-) 15:40:21 <krinn> btw hi guys :) 15:41:10 <maddy_> planetmaker: but isn't that done already, the old "programmable signals" patch? 15:41:27 <planetmaker> what's the definition of 'done'? 15:41:52 <krinn> something already inside openttd ? 15:42:01 <maddy_> coded and diff available at tt-forums.net? I just know because I edited it myself a few years ago 15:42:47 <planetmaker> and yes, that's probably the way I mean. And it's major drawback is, that it lacks somewhat a nice GUI for players to see the impact of the programming. I.e. the scope of the programmed signals 15:44:12 <planetmaker> maddy_, thus IMHO the main work which should be thought about decently in advance: how do you want to properly convey the information on the programme to the user 15:44:23 <planetmaker> that's what never has been done. Also not in the old patch 15:44:46 <maddy_> the problem with the old method, while pretty cool, does not allow the flexibility of what a script can do 15:45:05 <planetmaker> just telling you: the problem is the UI. Not the lack of flexibility 15:45:41 <maddy_> probably true 15:47:05 <planetmaker> it needs a way to visualize the impact of the programmed signals 15:47:34 <maddy_> I am just a bit uncomfortable with all the logic code in the programmed signals patch, it feels like extra overhead, compared to having it hidden inside squirrel 15:47:36 <planetmaker> inspecting the programming of every single one of 200 programmed signals on a map ... would make it otherwise impossible to find any issue 15:48:11 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 15:49:48 <maddy_> for scripts, a GUI could be just a simple textbox window 15:49:56 <krinn> i don't think it's a good idea to gave such functions handling to squirrel, that language is too weird 15:51:05 <planetmaker> maddy_, a text window with a script does not explain the resulting logic on the viewport. 15:51:18 *** megakacktus [~debussy@174-30-201-140.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #openttd 15:51:18 <planetmaker> that's exactly the shortcoming I speak of :-) 15:51:35 <planetmaker> I want to be able to understand a signal without reading a 100-line script 15:52:27 <maddy_> yeah a 100-line won't work, I was thinking they could be kept fairly short, and possibly developing a library of some kind for most common functions, which could then be reduced to maybe 1 line in the actual script 15:53:10 <maddy_> if they were in the range of say 1 to 4 lines, I think it'd work 16:00:12 <maddy_> DoCommand and DoCommandP seems to have a "text" parameter, wonder if that could be used 16:00:36 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:00:53 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 16:14:25 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50.107.55.36] has joined #openttd 16:17:09 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:17:12 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 16:18:02 <Alberth> o/ 16:18:12 <krinn> hi Alberth 16:21:19 *** Nat_aS [~nat@c-71-236-171-110.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:32:24 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:34:57 <maddy_> so do you think I shouldn't attempt to do this? 16:35:26 *** amiller [~amiller@129-2-129-154.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:36:07 <Alberth> plain signals are already beyond being understood by many 16:37:59 <krinn> well, maddy_ make a patch with : the signals, the GUI, and a default optional state to off so beginners won't even see them until allow 16:38:01 <maddy_> well, sure, but this would be intended for more advanced players, probably not intended as something which would ever be included in trunk 16:38:58 <krinn> if it's something that won't goes in openttd, i don't see why you are asking anyone if you should do it or not. 16:39:11 <planetmaker> ^ yeah :-) 16:39:24 <Alberth> he wants a user-count > 1 :p 16:39:28 <Alberth> hi planetmaker 16:39:35 <planetmaker> oh, hi Alberth :-) 16:40:07 <krinn> actually if he could make a nice GUI, that might also help users with "default signal" handling, as they are always lost 16:40:28 <planetmaker> I just prodded ^Spike^ to look into converting the DevZone DB ;-) 16:40:44 <^Spike^> pssst... planetmaker i can read this 16:40:45 <^Spike^> ;0 16:40:46 <^Spike^> ;) 16:41:06 <maddy_> well, but aren't the forums full of odd patches that some players like to play with, but won't be included in trunk due to not being suitable for most? 16:41:08 <planetmaker> I know. I looked and made sure you can't read it ;-) 16:41:12 <Alberth> too late, you have given yourself away now :) 16:41:17 <planetmaker> but don't tell everyone ;-) 16:41:41 *** megakacktus [~debussy@174-30-201-140.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:45 <planetmaker> Indeed I had to scroll the complete user list of this channel :-P 16:41:54 <Alberth> maddy_: most are just below trunk standards 16:42:00 <^Spike^> i love my ^ :D 16:42:09 <^Spike^> mirc shows me on top of the list... but most clients on the bottom :D 16:42:26 <planetmaker> :-) 16:44:29 <maddy_> I'm sure more advanced players would like the fine grained control for signals that scripts would enable, but non-programmers wouldn't get them, so it's hard task to have the same feature serve those 2 user groups 16:45:08 <planetmaker> ^ quite 16:46:02 <dihedral> actually, those players with enough brains create nand flash with trains and signals 16:46:49 <krinn> maddy_, i don't see what prevent you from making it optional, except more work 16:47:36 <planetmaker> hehe, dihedral :-) 16:47:38 <maddy_> dihedral: yeah, those are cool in their own way, but those are exactly what I'd like to do in scripts...it would result in much cleaner track layout 16:47:44 <dihedral> it basically needs to be a new signal type, krinn 16:47:58 <dihedral> maddy_, but at what cost 16:48:21 <krinn> dihedral, and what? you can activate rail speed or not... if he want, he can add an option to hide that new type of signal or not 16:49:12 <maddy_> is there a gui widget already in game which acts like a multiline textbox? for editing the scripts 16:49:33 <dihedral> go search :-P 16:49:45 <planetmaker> probably there's not, maddy_ 16:50:00 <planetmaker> OpenTTD is not text editor (so far) :D 16:50:06 <dihedral> why not look at existing patches that did programmable signals 16:50:17 <dihedral> planetmaker, i smell a feature 16:50:18 <krinn> maddy_, your script approch is a failure imo, do make pre-build system (like orders) 16:50:54 <dihedral> krinn, pre build system?? 16:50:57 <planetmaker> says one of the most active script writers :D 16:51:04 <dihedral> :-D 16:51:05 <dihedral> lol 16:51:27 <maddy_> I have looked at the programmable signals patch 16:51:34 <krinn> :D 16:51:50 <dihedral> very good, maddy_ then you know how to make the multi line text box 16:52:47 <krinn> dihedral, i mean instead of using script to handle it, he offer a number of choices already made by him, and user can only use them 16:53:37 <krinn> dihedral, hence "pre-build", or ready made... flexibilty <> simplicity 16:54:16 <dihedral> we have that already, yet aparently the available choice is not big enough 16:54:25 <maddy_> why would scripts be a fail tho, if I included a squirrel library with some commonly used features, like priorities or 1:1 splits (which I saw done using logic stuff in openttdcoop) 16:56:00 <krinn> if you do a library, then you lost your flexibility, i was thinking you want user "edit the script" and do what he want. And a c++ or squirrel library won't change anyone, as you will offer a limited choice to user (that pre-build choice i speak off) 16:56:08 <dihedral> i am not sure it's as easy as you imagine it 16:56:10 <dihedral> to be 16:56:36 <maddy_> krinn: no, the library would contain some pre-built functions for common tasks, but it'd be fully user editable 16:57:01 <krinn> so it will be a failure then 16:57:09 <dihedral> in all honesty though, if you use a multi line text box in game to edit signal settings, remember the signal script (for each signal) must reach the server and be distributed to every client 16:57:22 <krinn> why prevent me to edit it to access other squirrel functions to do something ? 16:57:43 <krinn> s/why/what 16:57:54 <dihedral> krinn, the layer in between 16:57:57 <maddy_> krinn: you lost me there...the scripts would be fully editable by users 16:59:14 <planetmaker> I'd like to switch a signal in sinoidal way red/green ;-) 16:59:25 <dihedral> maddy_, i am not quite sure you understand the implications of your enthusiastic vision 16:59:45 <maddy_> dihedral: in what way? 16:59:51 <dihedral> in every way 17:01:14 <dihedral> i do not know how to put it any other way 17:01:31 <maddy_> well, you have to be more specific, but in any case, I won't start this task since there's clearly no support for it among more experienced developers 17:01:51 <dihedral> lol 17:02:12 <dihedral> maddy_, you remind me of people visiting this channel and the forums long before you joined :-P 17:02:31 <maddy_> why? 17:02:47 <dihedral> " clearly no support for it among more experienced developers" <- that 17:02:52 <dihedral> what do you expect 17:03:01 <planetmaker> maddy_, you should do, what you do, for your own profit and enjoyment 17:03:04 *** megakacktus [~debussy@174-30-201-140.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #openttd 17:03:07 <dihedral> do you want people to be as enthusiastic about your idea as you are? 17:03:22 <maddy_> dihedral: no 17:03:23 <dihedral> and help you develop something 17:03:48 <maddy_> I just appreciate the input of people who have spent years with the source, and know it so much better than me 17:04:07 <dihedral> saying that the task actually is huge, bigger than you might think it is, is help 17:04:14 <Alberth> maddy_: if you ask specific questions, you get answers 17:04:22 <dihedral> ^ that 17:04:37 <dihedral> thank you Alberth 17:04:38 <dihedral> :-)( 17:04:41 <dihedral> :-) 17:04:51 <Alberth> stuff like "I have an idea" is too global to comment on other than the idea itself 17:05:39 <maddy_> Alberth: well yeah, I did ask some specific stuff too 17:05:53 <dihedral> in all honesty, he/she did 17:06:01 <dihedral> and in all fairness 17:06:31 <krinn> i still don't get why you ask people if you can do something that will run only for you 17:07:02 <planetmaker> let's not bash him, ok? :-) 17:07:22 <dihedral> however, maddy_, do not be discouraged to dig in the code, however be informed that the task is bigger than you expect it to be, and has huge implications, like mentioned earlier today you need to also be sure it works in multiplayer, and exactly that will cuse issues with the wrong approach 17:07:26 <Alberth> maddy_: I missed that, did you get an answer? 17:07:38 <dihedral> planetmaker, who's bashing? 17:08:00 <krinn> i wasn't saying that to bash him 17:08:02 <maddy_> Alberth: irrelevant now, since I've decided not to pursue this specific task, I will think of some other patch to make instead 17:08:44 <dihedral> maddy_, perhaps a piece of encouragement: start with small changes ;-) 17:08:47 <maddy_> dihedral: yeah, the multiplayer aspect came up, but what specifically was wrong with my approach that would not work with multiplayer? 17:09:09 <Alberth> maddy_: ok 17:09:34 <krinn> there's two way to make patch : doing it for you, you don't need any input on it from anyone. Or doing it in hope it get include, then this time, you can query devs to get hint of success. 17:09:45 <dihedral> multiplayer is basically a single player with a 'relay' in the middle telling each client what actions other clients are performing 17:09:54 <krinn> and planetmaker already answer you hints about it : make a gui, and i hint you : make it with an option 17:10:03 <dihedral> so any script you enter in one signal must be sent to every other client 17:10:20 <dihedral> further the script must use a syncronized type of random, else clients will be out of sync 17:10:22 <maddy_> dihedral: yes 17:10:27 <Alberth> krinn: false, you can still need info about how some parts of the code work, or how to add stuff, or where to find stuff 17:10:46 <dihedral> krinn, options can always be added later on ;-) 17:11:22 <maddy_> the limitations of passing data between clients using the DoCommand stuff came up, would that be the problem? 17:11:58 <dihedral> seeing as each client makes its own calculations, the result run on any client must be exactly the same for the exact same frame 17:12:27 <Alberth> you have about 32bit or so space, is that enough? 17:12:58 <maddy_> dihedral: well, I don't think I would need randomness for basic scripts, and yeah they would/should return same result for all clients 17:13:07 <dihedral> Alberth, lol 17:13:09 <maddy_> Alberth: no, if strings would need to be passed 17:13:32 <Alberth> maddy_: then you have a challenge to make it work, to say the least 17:13:41 <dihedral> hihi 17:14:21 <dihedral> Alberth, where do you get that from? 17:14:34 <maddy_> Alberth: ok, I just noticed the DoCommand has a "text" parameter, so I thought maybe I could pass something there 17:14:58 <planetmaker> without looking it up, it might be an error message ;-) 17:15:14 <Alberth> dihedral: ? 17:15:16 <dihedral> are signs not a do command 17:15:17 <Rubidium> ... but only up to ~100 bytes 17:15:18 <maddy_> probably :) 17:15:34 <dihedral> Alberth, just wondering where exactly the 32bit are still available 17:15:36 <Alberth> dihedral: oh, good point 17:15:37 <dihedral> at what place 17:15:53 <dihedral> a Rubidium \o/ 17:16:09 <Alberth> parameter p1/p2? 17:16:20 <maddy_> ok, now we are getting somewhere, specific reasons why the approach is not viable...instead of what dihedral is saying, which is general stuff like "it's huge" and "it won't work" 17:17:38 <maddy_> so, that pretty much decides it I think, that I can forget the idea at least in it's initial form 17:17:51 <Alberth> maddy_: it's usually always viable for some form, the trick is to find that form 17:17:52 <dihedral> maddy_, if you do not know the code, why should i explain the code, as you would then clearly not be able to follow 17:18:24 <dihedral> and the trick is also to understand what is going on in the code and understand what implications are there 17:18:40 <dihedral> and further, to find an approach that will take those implications into account 17:19:00 <krinn> it's easy if "viable" mean can work, it is as you said someone made a patch for it already, and if viable is add in openttd, it is not, as this patch already lack a gui for that 17:19:40 <dihedral> krinn, the lack of a patch does not mean it was not viable - patches can be declined for many reasons 17:19:46 <Alberth> and the best way to understand code and implications, is just to try a few times (and fail), learning each time what not to do. 17:20:09 <dihedral> i could write a patch that lets me control a plane while mid air - i bet you that would not be accepted :-P 17:20:15 <krinn> people are programming robots to walk on mars, how could adding a signal in openttd would be state as non-viable 17:20:21 <dihedral> and probably you will find peter1138 already has a patch for that somewhere 17:20:42 <dihedral> maddy_, and what Alberth sais :-) 17:20:45 <maddy_> Alberth: yeah that works great, I just want to run an idea by experienced developers who can immediately say if it'll work or not, before wasting potentially hours (or days) of my time 17:21:14 *** amiller [~amiller@129-2-129-154.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #openttd 17:21:46 <krinn> maddy_, you won't waste hours... you will work on something that may not work or you decide to drop, but hours spent teach you how to handle the code... so not lost hours, just some hours spent 17:22:06 <Rubidium> krinn: the same reason why installing Internet Explorer on Curiosity is non-viable? 17:22:15 <dihedral> hehe 17:22:55 <krinn> Rubidium, considering how its pathfinding is working, i'm sure MS built the OS that run on it :) 17:23:23 <Rubidium> oh does it's pathfinding work? 17:23:51 <Rubidium> s/oh/how/ 17:23:59 <Rubidium> s/'// 17:24:02 <Rubidium> damn... 17:24:06 <Alberth> maddy_: but at global conceptual level it is hard to say, the devil is always in the details. I do disagree with you "wasting hours", you spent time on learning about the internal structure of openttd, knowledge that you will keep available. Having an dev tell you yes/no is not the same depth of knowledge 17:24:26 <krinn> :) going dinner 17:24:30 <maddy_> Alberth: sure 17:25:31 <maddy_> and I do want to learn the openttd code, since I like the game, and the code is fairly clean and easy to read (I guess that's a compliment for you guys), just need to figure out some other project now 17:25:55 <Rubidium> krinn: because as far as I know the pathfinding is mostly done by humans with models and simulators on earth 17:27:27 <planetmaker> they recently upgraded its software. they just give it a destination and curiosity is supposed to go around (small) obstacles autonomously 17:28:43 <Alberth> maddy_: that will take you a few years :) 17:29:16 *** megakacktus [~debussy@174-30-201-140.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:03 <planetmaker> maddy_, I look at OpenTTD code for some years now... I'm sure there are code lines which I never looked at :-) 17:30:23 <planetmaker> I'm actually 100% positive. OS/2 code was so far of little interest :-P 17:30:23 <dihedral> planetmaker, over 6 years for me now :-) 17:30:36 <maddy_> for some reason I am not a big fan of the existing programmable signals patch 17:31:43 <dihedral> maddy_, but it might help find a way of doing it, and it might show you all the areas in the code you need to tough 17:31:56 <planetmaker> well.... http://wiki.openttd.org/?title=World_Wide_OpenTTD_Game_Day/2&action=history tells me that I dig around for about 5 to 6 years :D 17:32:01 <planetmaker> @openttd 13481 17:32:07 <planetmaker> hm 17:32:12 <planetmaker> @commit 13481 17:32:12 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Commit by smatz :: r13481 trunk/src/dock_gui.cpp (2008-06-11 21:37:36 UTC) 17:32:13 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: -Codechange: add 'B' keyboard shortcut to build aqueduct (planetmaker) 17:32:21 <dihedral> planetmaker, i was around for 6 years 17:32:50 <planetmaker> and I joined like 9 months earlier or so. 17:33:08 <planetmaker> or twelve. 17:35:32 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:35:35 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:37:00 <maddy_> oh, I could have just used the openttd console as the script gui ;) that'd been even easier I guess 17:37:02 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fddfe.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:40:52 <dihedral> @commit 9771 17:40:52 <DorpsGek> dihedral: Commit by peter1138 :: r9771 trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp (2007-05-02 19:00:59 UTC) 17:40:53 <DorpsGek> dihedral: -Feature: (-tte) Add password protected status to 'players' (network server) console command. (mostly dihedral) 17:40:56 <dihedral> planetmaker, ^ 17:41:44 <michi_cc> @commit 3008 17:41:45 <DorpsGek> michi_cc: Commit by Darkvater :: r3008 /trunk (13 files in 2 dirs) (2005-10-02 22:39:56 UTC) 17:41:46 <DorpsGek> michi_cc: [ 1247535 ] Native Support for Win64 (compile&run only) (michi_cc) 17:41:47 <DorpsGek> michi_cc: Fix warning in graph_gui.c with const problem 17:41:51 <michi_cc> Mine's longer :p 17:42:20 <planetmaker> wow, I didn't know you were around *that* long, michi_cc :-) 17:43:17 *** killertester [~igor@pppoe-77-75-13-50.ppp.kmv.ru] has joined #openttd 17:43:36 <frosch123> hmm, yeah, that has quite a chance to be second after tb 17:43:57 <frosch123> when is first commit of gl*/peter*/rubi* ? 17:44:08 <Rubidium> @commit 3511 17:44:08 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Commit by tron :: r3511 /trunk (59 files in 4 dirs) (2006-02-01 07:36:15 UTC) 17:44:09 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: More whitespace ([FS#46] by Rubidium) 17:44:16 <dihedral> michi_cc, it's not a matter of size :-P 17:45:26 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25721 /trunk/src/lang (lithuanian.txt slovenian.txt) (2013-08-13 17:45:19 UTC) 17:45:27 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:28 <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 32 changes by Stabilitronas 17:45:29 <DorpsGek> slovenian - 14 changes by matej1245 17:45:49 <frosch123> 2231 is first mentioning of peter 17:46:33 <Rubidium> @commit 3729 17:46:33 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Commit by rubidium :: r3729 /branches/tfc_newmap (4 files) (2006-03-02 07:11:16 UTC) 17:46:34 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: [tfc_newmap] - Synching to trunk r3727 and fix mismerges of r3726 and r3710 17:46:35 <frosch123> oh, gl* is even earlier, r2100 :p 17:46:42 <Rubidium> might be my first actual commit ;) 17:47:11 <frosch123> well, my first checkout was something around 7000 :p 17:47:17 <frosch123> way later :p 17:47:31 <dihedral> a small total of 36 commits - could have been more planetmaker :-D 17:47:33 <dihedral> haha 17:48:09 <__ln__> @commit 1297 17:48:09 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Commit by miham :: r1297 /trunk (18 files) (2004-12-29 13:13:29 UTC) 17:48:10 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Language fixes in the source.. (ln-) 17:48:28 <planetmaker> that can't be you, __ln__ 17:48:50 <dihedral> planetmaker, it says "Language fixes" that for sure is __ln__ 17:49:00 <planetmaker> no. the nick is wrong. totally 17:49:18 <frosch123> dihedral: it's his brother 17:49:27 <dihedral> lol 17:49:30 <planetmaker> that sounds likely, yes 17:49:45 <krinn> tt forum sold its cpu and get an old zx81 at work? 17:50:40 <Alberth> krinn: yep, it was cheaper 17:51:23 <__ln__> i've only been __ln__ instead of ln- since ... i don't remember when, but only on oftc. 17:58:18 <dihedral> __ln__, that was such a shocking comment, nobody seems capable to find the right words for that :-P 17:59:03 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host130-14-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:59:07 <Wolf01> hello 17:59:20 <LordAro> __ln__: why'd you change? 17:59:27 <LordAro> oh ancient one 18:00:24 <__ln__> i don't remember really, could have been to avoid a ban mask or something 18:04:15 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:04:20 <krinn> who do aystar6 ? 18:04:44 <LordAro> yexo or tb, probably 18:04:54 <krinn> @param cost_callback should accept four parameters, old_path, new_tile, new_direction and 18:04:54 <krinn> * cost_callback_param 18:05:06 <krinn> this._cost = cost_callback(pf_instance, old_path, new_tile, new_direction); 18:05:36 <__ln__> regarding 1297, here are the language fixes: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/changeset/1297 ... so yes, it is me 18:06:49 <dihedral> krinn, what exactly did you want to tell us? 18:07:00 <krinn> doc doesn't match the function 18:08:27 <dihedral> and you did check that there is no default set. allowing to call it with just three params? 18:08:50 <krinn> i show the call -> this._cost = cost_callback(pf_instance, old_path, new_tile, new_direction); 18:09:14 <dihedral> ... wow 18:09:21 <dihedral> you really do seem to know what you are doing :-P 18:09:39 <krinn> not always, but this time, yeah 18:09:53 <dihedral> then look where the function is defined 18:10:11 *** Tom_Soft [~id@37.140.99.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:10:24 <krinn> ... 18:11:11 *** SamanthaD [~SamanthaD@c-98-248-25-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 18:11:28 <SamanthaD> hey everyone! 18:11:34 <maddy_> hi 18:11:35 <Alberth> hi hi 18:11:40 <krinn> hi only you 18:11:44 <SamanthaD> haha 18:12:09 <dihedral> krinn, where is that code from?? 18:12:22 <krinn> dihedal, well, from aystar6 18:12:26 <dihedral> pfff 18:12:27 <dihedral> :-P 18:12:33 <krinn> :D 18:12:33 <dihedral> some ai? 18:12:40 <krinn> library yes 18:12:42 <dihedral> pfff 18:13:00 <krinn> must be in devzone i check 18:13:14 *** killertester [~igor@pppoe-77-75-13-50.ppp.kmv.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:13:16 *** killertester [~igor@pppoe-77-75-13-50.ppp.kmv.ru] has joined #openttd 18:13:40 <krinn> done by yexo 18:14:13 <LordAro> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6559 <-- here's the original announcement thread, if you want to see whose older than __ln__ and still here :p 18:16:10 <dihedral> Rubidium, slow is an understatement for tt-forums 18:16:24 <LordAro> ^ :( 18:16:34 <SamanthaD> woooaaaaah, that's like a museum display! 18:17:22 <LordAro> indeed, the only name i reocgnise (other than sir rudge) is GoneWacko, but he's only in #tycoon 18:17:42 <LordAro> @commit 1297 18:17:42 <DorpsGek> LordAro: Commit by miham :: r1297 /trunk (18 files) (2004-12-29 13:13:29 UTC) 18:17:43 <DorpsGek> LordAro: Language fixes in the source.. (ln-) 18:17:58 <LordAro> ^ the original reason for bringing this up, SamanthaD 18:18:38 <SamanthaD> That's sad... I guess people got bored with trains! 18:18:52 <dihedral> i also remember SirkoZ 18:19:18 <dihedral> but i do not want to read all 7 pages, not because I had anything better to do, but I don't want to wait for them to load 18:21:11 <LordAro> i believe i've seen Roman around also, and a few others, but none of them recently 18:21:28 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c83-253-81-174.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 18:23:05 <Wolf01> I'm here since that time too, I remember all of them :P 18:23:06 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23:19 <LordAro> oh, and mr Wolf01 is at least on the last page 18:23:22 <LordAro> indeed :) 18:24:11 <krinn> i was 2 years old in 2004 so i'm not in 18:24:27 <LordAro> :O you're a young'un 18:24:38 <Chrill> pfft. I have brothers younger than krinn 18:24:40 <Chrill> I WIN 18:24:45 <Chrill> I WIN LIFE 18:24:59 <LordAro> :) 18:25:02 <krinn> LordAro, or i lie 18:25:34 <LordAro> lie? on the internet? who would do such a thing? 18:25:39 <Wolf01> I just finished high school at that time 18:26:42 <krinn> LordAro, politicians are on the net too 18:26:46 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:27:13 <LordAro> troo :) 18:27:29 <LordAro> Rubidium/whoever, backporting documentation updates from 1.3.2 seems to have been forgotten 18:28:50 <LordAro> also, http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.fcg/MigrationGuide <-- who's up for doing that? :p 18:28:58 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18A1C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:30:16 <Eddi|zuHause> when i came here, michi_cc was already the "win64 release guy" 18:30:36 <Eddi|zuHause> not that i ever needed such a thing 18:30:57 <planetmaker> LordAro, you? :D 18:31:25 <Eddi|zuHause> only somewhat later the compilefarm produced win64 builds for releases 18:31:42 <krinn> can wait to have forcefeedback support in openttd ! 18:31:58 <Eddi|zuHause> "is lab-grown meat kosher/halal?" 18:32:15 <krinn> depend how u kill it 18:32:35 <krinn> oh the meat, not the animal, ok don't know then :) 18:33:15 <frosch123> krinn: do you know what neighbours are important does? 18:33:26 <frosch123> it's also active in your game 18:33:37 <frosch123> anyway, the clearing pattern is weird 18:33:46 <frosch123> as in, it's a complex shape 18:33:49 <krinn> nao is just a gs 18:34:08 <krinn> it do control town rating if neighbor town are too small, the town get a small rate 18:34:22 <krinn> grrr, town growth rate 18:34:39 <krinn> i don't think nai is doing that 18:34:43 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: the point is that you don't have to kill an animal to get the meat :p 18:34:50 <krinn> my ai could have done it, but not to that big shape 18:35:23 <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause, you mean you could just ask it for its meat? 18:35:27 <krinn> i have functions to clean tree, but limited in size, so i'm sure it's not the ai frosch123 18:35:51 <krinn> frosch123, and of course not me :) 18:36:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc22-aztw25-2-0-cust272.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:36:59 <andythenorth> troll or not troll? 18:37:17 <peter1138> yesnoabortdiskfull 18:37:34 <krinn> frosch123, if it help, when i reload the savegame to check it was the good savegame, the industry : "Rennes raffinerie pétroliÚre", next to the big clean was also cleaned for no reason 18:37:40 * andythenorth decides not troll 18:38:01 <SamanthaD> Eddi: You don't have to kill an animal to get the meat anyway... but the ASPCA didn't buy it... 18:38:48 * krinn think Eddi|zuHause just eat animal alive 18:38:58 <frosch123> krinn: what does limited in size mean? 18:39:11 <frosch123> the area is not rectangular, so it's not one big area, but many small ones 18:39:19 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: the meat was grown from a few cells 18:39:20 <krinn> limit to town area 18:39:30 <krinn> frosch123, i think town influence area 18:39:35 <Eddi|zuHause> without an animal attached to it 18:40:06 <andythenorth> not trolling lego fans is boring 18:40:12 <andythenorth> but trolling them will get me mod warning 18:40:19 <frosch123> krinn: ok, what version of your ai is running exactly? 18:40:44 <krinn> sadly a pre170 18:40:58 <krinn> so one that change a lot 18:41:17 <krinn> i have put it in another issue with orders 18:41:20 <krinn> wait checking the # 18:41:24 <frosch123> did you restart your ai or something? 18:41:29 <frosch123> all expenses are zero 18:41:33 <krinn> yes frosch123 18:41:35 <frosch123> and it started only 11 days ago 18:41:43 <krinn> i always reload it in those test 18:42:02 <krinn> and cheat to gave it money to let it build trains 18:42:27 <krinn> so the ai have the money to do havock if it wish 18:42:34 <krinn> but honestly it's not what happen here 18:42:49 <frosch123> i am quite sure it must be the ai then :p 18:42:59 <krinn> :D 18:43:27 <krinn> the shape of clean tiles isn't even a square 18:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> of course, there's an isometric distortion to the square :p 18:44:07 <krinn> and i was testing the ai of course, i would have seen it if the ai was working on that so many tiles 18:45:30 <krinn> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5656 i have upload a pre170 there frosch123 18:46:27 <Eddi|zuHause> NYT: "why did you go to a foreign newspaper instead of to us?" - Snowden: "Because american press gave up their role as a check to power after 9/11, because of fear to look 'unpatriotic'" 18:47:35 <Xaroth|Work> heh 18:47:42 <Xaroth|Work> not untrue either 18:50:30 <krinn> :P usa have all the clues of a dictatorship country 18:50:57 <frosch123> dictator ai is just currently clearing a complete town area 18:51:22 <krinn> not that size frosch123 18:51:42 <frosch123> "that size" is just the area combined by three towns 18:52:45 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/dictatorai.png <- how is this any smaller? 18:53:00 <frosch123> and it's not done yet, i paused the game while it was doing so 18:53:28 <krinn> ah maybe i should recheck that part (as i don't even remember if i change it) 18:53:42 <krinn> but the area upper left area seems way too far 18:56:41 <krinn> nope only clean limit to town authority area 18:57:11 <frosch123> maybe ottd even lmitied your ai with the clear-tile limit 18:57:20 <frosch123> thus the area is not quite square 18:57:43 <krinn> it's limit to town authority size 18:58:44 <krinn> or do town authority that much big for a small city ? 19:00:10 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01:11 <krinn> frosch123, in the samegame you still have the stations the ai was working on : la rochelle & lille town 19:11:13 <frosch123> so, you mean it's rather related to the pathfinder and route construction? 19:11:17 <frosch123> instead of the tree stuff? 19:11:32 <krinn> certainly yes 19:11:44 <krinn> the tree stuff is old stuff, it has never do such thing 19:11:56 <krinn> maybe pathfinder yes 19:12:41 <krinn> as the area is good if you consider a* nodes 19:13:50 <Rubidium> LordAro: I'm not doing that for each and every release, and it's not that important for trunk. It'll get there eventually 19:15:39 <Rubidium> LordAro: I'm not sure migrating to SDL 2.0 is going to happen "soon" 19:15:43 <andythenorth> oops 19:15:47 <krinn> frosch123, that must be that, i don't remember, but i was working on pathfinding, and the hypothesis looks ok with the area involve 19:15:49 * andythenorth did a lego troll :( 19:16:17 <Rubidium> LordAro: mostly because then the generic binaries will fail basically everywhere 19:18:51 <Alberth> make brickland sprites? 19:18:53 <Rubidium> LordAro: it looks like you might want an SDLv2 video driver 19:40:35 *** SamanthaD [~SamanthaD@c-98-248-25-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:30 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 19:48:34 <Alberth> good night 19:48:56 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 19:48:58 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:52:38 <LordAro> Rubidium: so maybe in a couple of years time? 19:54:49 <planetmaker> LordAro, it still may make sense to add that. But keep using 1.2 as default 19:55:03 <planetmaker> configure and detection of available libraries could take care of that 19:55:59 *** krinn [~krinn@53.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:07 *** amiller [~amiller@129-2-129-154.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:00:27 <LordAro> planetmaker, but the generic binaries would have to use 1.2 (at least for now), right ? 20:01:34 <planetmaker> that's the matter of defaults, yes. Like you can have SDL installed on windows or osx as well. Yet by default you'll get the GDI or cocoa binaries 20:04:53 <__ln__> is it the yearly SDL on OSX discussion again? 20:05:04 <planetmaker> no 20:07:01 <LordAro> SDL 2.0 on everything discussion :) 20:07:35 <glx> I though SDL 2 was dead ;) 20:08:09 <LordAro> indeed not: http://www.libsdl.org/ 20:08:18 <LordAro> new website too, for that matter 20:08:37 <planetmaker> released like... this week, glx 20:09:25 <LordAro> a few hours ago, i believe, actually :) 20:10:46 <planetmaker> http://lists.libsdl.org/pipermail/sdl-libsdl.org/2013-August/089854.html tells me like 23h ago ;-) 20:11:00 <planetmaker> hm... PDT. whatever 20:13:44 <LordAro> 14 hours ago, then :p 20:13:56 <LordAro> according to some probably overcomplicated googling 20:16:38 <glx> looking at http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.fcg/MigrationGuide it seems to be a nice new version 20:30:51 *** Nat_aS [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 20:30:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6BD56.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:31:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D641.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 20:43:55 *** Ristovski [~rafael@ppp-seco11pa2-46-193-128.78.wb.wifirst.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:12 *** Ristovski [~rafael@ppp-seco11pa2-46-193-128.78.wb.wifirst.net] has joined #openttd 21:08:39 *** megakacktus [~debussy@174-30-201-140.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #openttd 21:10:36 <Eddi|zuHause> forum still slow :/ 21:11:35 <andythenorth> yup 21:13:02 <frosch123> but does it improve the quality of the content? 21:17:50 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-125-152.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 21:21:28 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea, when i can't get to it :p 21:22:11 <frosch123> does that in itself improve it? :p 21:23:23 <Eddi|zuHause> doubtful 21:23:37 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:23:38 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 21:25:29 <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: it appears all dates are off by 1 day, as provided by libottdadmin2 21:25:44 <Xaroth|Work> so I think the gamedate_to_datetime is off 21:25:56 <Xaroth|Work> (checking map info shows start date always at jan 2 as well) 21:28:15 <Bad_Brett> seriously 21:28:20 <Bad_Brett> i think i'm going insane 21:29:34 <Bad_Brett> who came up with this "extra turning angles" stupidity? ;) 21:29:53 <Wolf01> 'night 21:29:56 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:34:10 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18A1C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:43 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:36 <Eddi|zuHause> it was certainly not my idea 21:42:54 <Eddi|zuHause> only parts of the concept were developed by me 21:49:16 <Xaroth|Work> hm, dev.openttdcoop.org is also sluggish.. if it ever responds 21:49:53 <frosch123> yup, but that is planned 21:51:17 <Xaroth|Work> ah 21:54:17 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.98.120] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC - Free irc client @ www.adiirc.com] 21:54:36 <Bad_Brett> well, you were the one who introduced me to it 21:56:15 <andythenorth> bye 21:56:15 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc22-aztw25-2-0-cust272.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 21:56:37 <Bad_Brett> and now i'm trying to do one with 128 angles, which seemed to be a good idea until I started working on it 21:56:44 *** killertester [~igor@pppoe-77-75-13-50.ppp.kmv.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:56:50 <Bad_Brett> night 21:56:53 <Bad_Brett> andy 21:57:03 <LordAro> i think he left :p 21:57:57 *** megakacktus [~debussy@174-30-201-140.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Live long and prosper] 21:57:58 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@0001707a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:57:59 <Bad_Brett> so it seems 21:58:02 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:03 *** SmatZ [~smatz@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Write error: connection closed] 21:58:03 *** Ammler [~ammler@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Write error: connection closed] 21:58:06 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:09 *** tneo [~tneo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:09 *** Yexo [~Yexo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:10 <Bad_Brett> hi LordAro :) 21:58:14 *** Osai [~Osai@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:15 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@000128e4.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:15 *** V453000 [~V453000@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:16 <LordAro> hi Bad_Brett :) 21:58:20 *** avdg [~avdg@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:24 <Xaroth|Work> bye bye openttdcoop proxies 21:58:33 <LordAro> oop, looks like the ottdcoop bouncer just broke 21:58:44 <frosch123> the server is rebooting 21:58:51 <frosch123> are you not in the important channels? 21:58:53 <Xaroth|Work> reboot it HARDER 21:58:59 *** Yexo [~Yexo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:58:59 *** avdg [~avdg@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:59:00 <LordAro> apparently not :L 21:59:06 <LordAro> @seen yexo 21:59:06 <DorpsGek> LordAro: yexo was last seen in #openttd 36 weeks, 4 days, 8 hours, 42 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet 21:59:08 <LordAro> :( 21:59:25 <LordAro> and with that, g'mnight all from me also 21:59:29 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:59:32 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 21:59:36 <LordAro> byes 21:59:36 <Xaroth|Work> nn Aro 21:59:42 <Bad_Brett> goodnight 21:59:58 *** tneo [~tneo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:00:31 *** Ammler [~ammler@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:00:58 *** Osai [~Osai@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:01:14 *** amiller [~amiller@129-2-129-154.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #openttd 22:01:28 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:01:28 *** SmatZ [~smatz@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:01:58 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@000128e4.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:01:58 *** V453000 [~V453000@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:02:40 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:04:00 <frosch123> night 22:04:03 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fddfe.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:04:34 <^Spike^> Xaroth|Work me broke it sort of :D 22:04:48 <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: in -theory- you can call self._rcvChat(irc, **data) .. it turns the data dict into keyword args (so _rcvChat(irc, action, destType, clientID, message, data) ) 22:04:53 <Xaroth|Work> ^Spike^: figures :P 22:04:58 <^Spike^> should be fixed now :) 22:05:33 <Xaroth|Work> ^Spike^: it is 22:05:51 <^Spike^> atleast 1 advantage: I know what i broke :D 22:06:00 <Xaroth|Work> :D 22:06:58 <^Spike^> time for bed now as it works :D 22:07:54 <Xaroth|Work> nn :) 22:07:57 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host86-165-39-164.range86-165.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:08:36 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:11:27 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 22:44:17 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:45:40 *** amiller [~amiller@129-2-129-154.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:50:12 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:02:52 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c83-253-81-174.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 23:04:29 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 23:06:27 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd 23:09:31 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 23:22:42 *** amiller [~amiller@c-69-255-193-198.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:22:56 *** eQualizer [~lauri@46-163-226-192.blcnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:32:56 *** eQualizer [~lauri@46-163-226-192.blcnet.fi] has joined #openttd 23:34:06 *** Ristovski [~rafael@ppp-seco11pa2-46-193-128.78.wb.wifirst.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:58:37 *** JGR_ [~JGR@host86-156-147-120.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd