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00:08:06 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-150.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:06 *** KritiK [~Maxim@128-69-6-121.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:05:19 *** fjb is now known as Guest40 01:05:20 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 01:12:07 *** Guest40 [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:42:39 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:05:39 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.104.25] has joined #openttd 02:06:09 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.157.55] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]] 02:13:11 *** Japa [~Japa@112.79.37.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:41:51 *** eQualizer [~lauri@46-163-226-192.blcnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:54:19 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 02:58:24 *** scshunt [raedford@00017de0.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 03:23:29 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.157.55] has joined #openttd 04:34:11 *** qwebirc31517 [~oftc-webi@pool-96-225-87-128.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 04:35:05 <qwebirc31517> hello 04:39:35 <Supercheese> Salutations 04:41:44 <qwebirc31517> i was hoping for help, i dont know how to accept an invite in openttd. My friend is trying to join my game and he said I have to click accept, but I do not know how 04:49:08 <Supercheese> I don't do multiplayer, sorry 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD429D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5EA9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:11:26 *** maddy_ [~plaiho@v44.woima.fi] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:16:39 *** qwebirc31517 [~oftc-webi@pool-96-225-87-128.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:21:51 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@87.114.21.53] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:23:39 *** Djohaal_ [~Djohaal@177.43.128.175] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:29:35 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 05:32:26 *** Japa [~Japa@117.214.60.175] has joined #openttd 05:36:16 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.104.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:45:24 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 05:45:27 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 05:50:15 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-65-113-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 05:50:37 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-45-115.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:09:42 *** Zuu [~Zuu@m-office.sdrf.se] has joined #openttd 06:15:31 *** Pecio [~fgh@adqy161.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 06:22:54 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 06:33:56 *** Zuu [~Zuu@m-office.sdrf.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:38:22 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-65-113-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 06:44:18 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@zeroshell2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 07:01:19 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11:41 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 07:15:09 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 07:28:21 *** Markk [mark@host155-38.etanet.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:30:11 *** Markk [mark@host155-38.etanet.se] has joined #openttd 07:57:09 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.157.55] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]] 08:15:49 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:27:09 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 08:39:43 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-169.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 08:44:49 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:50:56 *** TheMask96 [martijn@89.104.166.242] has joined #openttd 08:51:36 *** montalvo [~montalvo@papc-ma276.st-andrews.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 08:52:17 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-169.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 08:56:48 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 09:07:45 *** DDR [~chatzilla@154.20.134.39] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 09:08:44 *** kevin_ [~kevin@107-213-86-126.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 09:09:27 *** MrShell [~mrshell@HSI-KBW-5-56-195-183.hsi17.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #openttd 09:09:32 <kevin_> how do you get oil tankers to get oil from wells? whenever I try and click on refineries or wells when setting orders with a tanker it doesn't let me 09:12:55 *** MrShell [~mrshell@HSI-KBW-5-56-195-183.hsi17.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 09:15:16 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:15:19 <blathijs> kevin_: You need to build docks near them. The oil will be delivered to the docks (possibly only after the first oil tanker has been there) and can be picked up by the tanker from the dock 09:15:59 *** eQualizer [~lauri@46-163-226-192.blcnet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:16:28 <kevin_> blathijs: docks for oil tanker trucks? 09:16:57 <blathijs> kevin_: You never mentioned "trucks" and in my vocabulary, an "Oil tanker" is a ship :-) 09:17:26 <kevin_> blathijs: oh hahahaah sorry 09:17:31 <blathijs> kevin_: But, you'll have to build a bus station then (but use the cargo variant, can't recall what its called. Loading dock or something) 09:17:39 <kevin_> okay gotcha 09:17:42 <blathijs> loading bay perhaps 09:18:02 <planetmaker> truck station 09:18:15 <planetmaker> but depends quite on selected language ;-) 09:18:29 <planetmaker> <blathijs> kevin_: You never mentioned "trucks" and in my vocabulary, an "Oil tanker" is a ship :-) <-- for me, too :-) 09:18:48 <kevin_> hahaha 09:19:44 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/Tutorial might help :-) 09:20:28 <kevin_> planetmaker: I saw that but I couldn't find anything on trucks 09:21:58 <planetmaker> but it teaches that vehicles need stations. whatever vehicle type 09:22:46 <kevin_> if I build the station near the refinery or well (like within the grid that says the area it serves) will the truck get the oil? 09:23:39 <planetmaker> well... it will tell you what the station can be provided with and what it does accept 09:23:46 <kevin_> okay, thanks 09:23:50 *** kevin_ [~kevin@107-213-86-126.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:23:53 <planetmaker> in the ... 09:24:15 <planetmaker> that was quick ;-) 09:31:45 <AndreasB> :D 09:37:52 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:37:55 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 09:58:22 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@zeroshell2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:04:53 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@zeroshell2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 10:27:47 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.214.60.175] has joined #openttd 10:31:27 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-150.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:31:40 *** TheMask96 [martijn@89.104.166.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:32:56 <LordAro> /o 10:34:20 *** Japa [~Japa@117.214.60.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:35:32 *** TheMask96 [martijn@89.104.166.242] has joined #openttd 10:43:30 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-150.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:43:48 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-150.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 11:01:44 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-78-45-93-251.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:30:29 <AndreasB> o.O 11:30:32 *** TheMask96 [martijn@89.104.166.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:36:05 *** TheMask96 [martijn@89.104.166.242] has joined #openttd 11:36:59 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:52:32 *** retro|cz [~retro@94.142.237.160] has joined #openttd 11:54:12 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 12:05:06 <AndreasB> TheMask96: Didnt know people that young played openttd 12:05:38 *** Zuu [~Zuu@gateway.sdr.org] has joined #openttd 12:24:27 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 12:33:32 <planetmaker> heya Bad_Brett :-) 12:33:42 <Bad_Brett> hey planetmaker :-) 12:33:42 *** Dozer [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 12:34:10 <LordAro> /o 12:34:19 <Bad_Brett> hey lordaro 12:34:48 <Bad_Brett> a nice day for some newgrf development 12:35:04 <planetmaker> the repo is still empty though :-( 12:35:55 <LordAro> planetmaker: the osx section of the todo list is outdated ;) (http://wiki.openttd.org/Todo_list#OSX_related for easy clicking) 12:36:13 <planetmaker> yes, that might actually be true 12:37:03 <planetmaker> actually and sadly ,so many todo lists are a bit outdated... 12:37:22 <LordAro> :( 12:37:30 <Bad_Brett> yeah, i got so frustrated last time that my entire push was rejected because of some thumbs.db files 12:37:32 <planetmaker> and patches provided to them... c/should get quicker review. As you might know yourself :-( 12:37:59 <LordAro> i can provide links if you're offering :p 12:38:11 *** TheMask96 [martijn@89.104.166.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:38:21 <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, given that you said that you carefully review of what to add I'm surprised that you added those :-) 12:38:52 <planetmaker> yes, I could also disable that check temporarily 12:39:24 <Bad_Brett> i don't add them, they're added by the windows explorer... but on the other hand, i guess i can do a simple search and delete them before pushing 12:39:26 <planetmaker> but adding them to a repository is not a sane thing to do 12:39:35 <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, *you* add them to the repository 12:39:39 <planetmaker> not every file needs be added 12:39:49 <planetmaker> you can for instance add the to the .hgignore 12:40:13 <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, adding files to a repository needs more than their presence in the directories 12:40:29 <LordAro> doing "hg add *" is not usually a good idea :p 12:40:31 <planetmaker> it's something you explicitly tell your version control programme 12:40:46 <Eddi|zuHause> use "hg addremove" 12:41:01 <Bad_Brett> there's is no way that i can manually select the files, so i have to use something like hgignore 12:41:03 <planetmaker> ^ actually that's exactly what one IMHO shold NOT use 12:41:05 <Eddi|zuHause> make sure .hgignore is set properly 12:41:12 <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, sure there is 12:41:29 <Bad_Brett> no, there isn't :-) 12:41:54 *** TheMask96 [martijn@89.104.166.242] has joined #openttd 12:42:10 <planetmaker> http://tortoisehg.bitbucket.org/manual/1.0/quick.html#add-files 12:42:33 *** alluke [~oftc-webi@cs181208223.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 12:42:57 <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, every vcs (I know) needs an explicit command which adds a file so that it starts becomming tracked by it 12:42:58 <alluke> is there anywhere template for ships? 12:43:46 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: what i think he meant was: there are too many files to pick them one-by-one 12:43:53 <Bad_Brett> i may have 5000 new folders for a new push... 12:43:59 <Bad_Brett> and 50 000 files 12:44:17 <SpComb> doesn't sound like source code to me 12:44:21 <planetmaker> that's unhandy to do by hand :-) 12:44:33 <planetmaker> SpComb, of newgrfs? 12:44:38 <SpComb> if they're generated files, they shouldn't be in source control :) 12:44:46 <SpComb> do you edit those 50k files? 12:45:03 <Bad_Brett> define generated 12:45:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess they are rendered graphics 12:45:11 <planetmaker> it's a matter of how they're generated, SpComb 12:45:21 <Bad_Brett> most of them are childsprites and such 12:45:32 <Bad_Brett> very small images 12:45:34 <Japa_> For high zoom sprites that are still 8bpp, do they go into a newgrf normally? 12:45:50 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 12:45:55 <planetmaker> Japa_, 8bpp or 32bpp or zoomlevel: no difference. yes. 12:46:20 <Japa_> Oh, newgrfs can have 32bpp now? 12:46:27 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 12:46:36 <planetmaker> normally: depends. An author will need to provide them. I know only one NewGRF which provides 8bpp sprites for zoom levels larger than 1x 12:46:45 <Japa_> Ossum. 12:47:30 <Japa_> planetmaker, I was thinking of drawing some high zoom engines 12:47:40 <planetmaker> please do :-) 12:48:08 <Japa_> Though all the current indian electrics look pretty similar 12:48:25 <planetmaker> does it need to be 'realistic' in that sense? 12:48:28 <Pinkbeast> Form follows function, and all that. :-/ 12:48:34 <Japa_> I 12:48:42 <Japa_> I'll probably differentiate them by color 12:48:46 <planetmaker> couldn't it simply be a train set with engines not from one country, but ... interesting engines for gameplay 12:48:49 <Pinkbeast> Japa_: What about CC? 12:48:55 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:49:01 <Japa_> Pinkbeast, leave that to the wagons 12:49:18 <V453000> just imagine your own trains Japa_ 12:49:19 <V453000> best approach 12:49:22 <Pinkbeast> Japa_: It's up to you, of course, but I think it is best to provide a toggle between CC and "realistic" liveries. 12:49:25 <V453000> you can always get inspiration from elsewhere, but ... 12:49:36 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 12:49:40 <V453000> randomized colours can also have CC :) 12:49:53 <V453000> e.g. blue/red/green body with CC stripe 12:50:11 <Japa_> Yeah, true 12:50:14 <Japa_> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/WAP-7_class_electric_locomotive_of_Indian_Railways.jpg 12:50:29 <Japa_> Here's the fastest indian engine, with the company colors on the pax wagons 12:51:05 <Pinkbeast> Japa_: I would expect the CC version of that to have primary colour where it is cream and secondary colour on the stripe. 12:51:16 <SpComb> draw a Electric-steam locomotive 12:51:28 <Japa_> Making more then one color option is really not hard 12:51:34 <Japa_> just replace values 12:51:57 <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, anyway, if it helps you, I de-activate that 'bad files' filter for the first push. But permanently, rather not 12:52:51 <planetmaker> though it might be not too difficult to simply copy the current dir to a new one. add the thumbs file to hgignore and add the rest and push that 12:53:39 <Bad_Brett> thanks, planetmaker. i will try again tonight. and yes, it might be wise for me to learn the hgignore thing 12:53:59 <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, add to it all files which are 12:54:03 <planetmaker> *generated 12:54:10 <planetmaker> *backup files from programmes you use 12:54:10 <alluke> i dont think company colors suit trains if you want to make them as realistic as possible 12:54:17 *** Pecio [~fgh@adqy161.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #openttd [] 12:54:21 <Bad_Brett> yeah... and the python files 12:54:33 <alluke> for some road vehicles and ships they work 12:54:37 <planetmaker> (like *.txt~ *.bak etc) 12:54:49 <planetmaker> why python files? Only the compiled ones 12:54:56 <planetmaker> *.py is no problem. *.pyc is :-) 12:55:20 <V453000> I dont think making trains realistic as possible will lead in any interesting new train sets which differ from the majority 12:55:23 <Bad_Brett> i was thinking about the nml compiler which also is located in my folder 12:55:32 *** Dozer| [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 12:55:41 <planetmaker> err. do NOT add that 12:55:45 <Bad_Brett> :-) 12:56:31 <planetmaker> make nml available in your path so that you have a completely separate dir for it. 12:56:56 <planetmaker> and that you can call nmlc from anywhere 12:57:03 <Bad_Brett> yeah, i will do something like that 12:57:16 <Bad_Brett> i have a pretty good structure now 12:57:21 <planetmaker> seems that NML needs an installer ;-) 12:57:24 <alluke> V: i think theyll differ way more than if they all had same colors 12:57:28 <Bad_Brett> so that won't be a problem 12:57:38 <alluke> more colors = more variety 12:57:40 <V453000> I didnt talk about difference in one engine 12:57:54 <V453000> different train set = difference in gameplay 12:58:02 <Dozer|> http://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_List planetmaker I'm taking a look at this entire list of different NewGRF files, and it looks relatively simple. I'm just curious, if I add train sets from fx both Hungary and Sweden, can they coexist, or will they create problems for eachother? 12:58:05 <V453000> is what it should be 12:58:11 <alluke> yes 12:58:15 <V453000> just copying real trains wont lead in anything new 12:58:31 <V453000> both visually and functionally 12:58:39 <planetmaker> Dozer, depends a bit on trainset. Usually it's no problem. It's only if the set author considers it one and makes it a problem ;-) 12:59:07 <Dozer|> ah :D 12:59:44 <alluke> but coloring them all with same color and changing the specs does? 12:59:58 <Dozer|> planetmaker also, with stuff like stations, will I be able to choose from the different types, if enabled, or should I only have 1 type enabled at that point? 13:00:19 <V453000> idk what are you trying to say by that alluke 13:00:20 <Bad_Brett> by the way... it should be added to the nml wiki that, if you intend to use childsprites, all 4x zoom sprites and their offsets MUST be divisible by _32_, unless you want severe headache ;-) 13:00:27 *** Zuu [~Zuu@gateway.sdr.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:00:51 *** Zuu [~Zuu@sip.sdrf.se] has joined #openttd 13:01:15 <V453000> I basically said a reason of "realistic as possible" is not quite a good one for making a train set - while random colours can look nice especially if enhanced by CCs 13:01:48 <alluke> that it leads in something new visually and functionally? 13:02:11 *** Dozer [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:02:11 *** Dozer| is now known as Dozer 13:03:46 <V453000> I said the opposite? if you copy real trains, it leads to nothing new? 13:04:46 <alluke> yes 13:05:35 <V453000> -> ? 13:08:38 <alluke> if you dont copy the real trains, but paint them in 2cc instead, it leads to something new? 13:09:34 <V453000> certainly more new than copying every detail? 13:09:36 <Japa_> If you have all locos painted with company colors, they can look boring 13:09:42 <alluke> exactly 13:09:45 <V453000> also the copying of visual appearance generally means to copying stats too 13:09:45 <Japa_> That is, they all will be the same color. 13:10:05 <Japa_> If you give each loco a different color sceme, they stand out from each other 13:10:06 <V453000> which is why I suggest make random colour, with CC stripe for example 13:10:06 <alluke> dont think so, 13:10:24 <Japa_> V453000, I like that idea 13:10:28 <alluke> pikka copied the appearance in his ukrs2 set, but threw the capacities from head 13:10:46 <V453000> true pikka does it somewhat differently 13:10:51 <V453000> at least a little bit 13:11:10 <Japa_> Which sets have more than one passenger type? 13:11:27 <alluke> tourists you say? 13:11:54 <alluke> and rainbow-colors make 0 sense outside toyland 13:12:00 <juzza1> ECS Town Vector 13:12:13 <Japa_> ECS had tourists, yes 13:12:23 <Japa_> I guess that works for what I was thinking of 13:12:29 <alluke> juzza1, when will fts get tourist support? 13:12:35 <juzza1> yesterday 13:12:39 <Japa_> Tourist wagons and pax wagons looking different 13:13:01 <Japa_> Mainly with tourist wagons being what in reality are the air conditioned coaches 13:13:13 <Japa_> and then the non-ac ones being regular pax. 13:13:20 <Japa_> main difference is the windows 13:14:43 <V453000> I dont think colours need to make sense, they need to look nice 13:15:12 <juzza1> not sure if many use the ECS sets nowadays. I recommend adding the tourist livery as a refit/random livery for the normal pax coach 13:15:45 <alluke> me too 13:16:20 <alluke> and rainbow-trains dont look nice outside toyland 13:16:28 <V453000> I beg to differ 13:17:03 <V453000> colours are always nice, especially in city networks 13:17:25 <V453000> its not like the whole train has to be coloured that way, it can be just parts 13:18:00 <alluke> exactly 13:18:21 <alluke> i can have trains with red, blue, and green coaches at same time 13:20:48 <Japa_> Hm... 13:21:06 <Belugas> hello 13:21:39 <Japa_> I wonder how I can represent in-game the local trains we have here that carry far more passengers than the express ones, but have a much lower ticket price 13:22:10 <alluke> ottd has no ticket prices 13:22:10 <Pinkbeast> Japa_: To a first approximation you can't, because payment rates are controlled by other factors. 13:22:24 <Japa_> Yeah 13:22:33 <Japa_> I'll probably just put them at a far lower speed 13:22:35 <Pinkbeast> Japa_: But since a primary factor is speed, if they are slow, they will also not earn much cash. 13:22:51 <Pinkbeast> Japa_: They could also then be cheap to run. 13:23:06 <Japa_> These are EMUs 13:23:20 <NGC3982> Afternoon. 13:23:29 <alluke> local trains are usually slower but have bigger capacity 13:23:49 <alluke> making them more useful for highly populated routes with many stops 13:24:30 <Pinkbeast> Japa_: But... a player who's playing for gameplay will almost always use the fastest thing possible. A simulationist player will use a mix of local and express stock as long as the stats make it possible, even if just using express would be more economic. So in a sense it doesn't matter too much. 13:24:44 <Japa_> Right, right. 13:25:08 <Japa_> Though, with my experience with cargodist, local trains are sorely needed for gameplay 13:25:41 <Japa_> I'll probably just do something similar to the metro trains in the 2cc set, but using the same tracks 13:25:46 <Pinkbeast> Japa_: Also, you wrote "If you have all locos painted with company colors, they can look boring" but it seems to me that if someone flips a toggle in a newgrf marked "CC vs realistic colours", they are saying that is what they would like, and don't try and second-guess them. 13:26:23 <Pinkbeast> Japa_: Ah. I was going to say "stopping services, yes, but it still makes sense to use express stock", but 2cc does a neat job there with differentiated loading times. 13:26:33 <Japa_> Yeah, I've decided I'll do company colors for now 13:27:11 <Pinkbeast> Japa_: I think the only sensible alternative is a 3-way "really just CC / a bit of CC here and there / realistic" toggle 13:27:18 <Japa_> Though different engines will may have the primary and secondary colors swapped 13:28:25 <Pinkbeast> Japa_: Again... I wouldn't. If I turn on 2CC, I expect the primary colour will be primary and etc etc 13:28:59 <Japa_> http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8433/7746028816_0eed69ea76_z.jpg 13:31:19 *** tmsft [~id@37.140.124.50] has joined #openttd 13:34:20 <alluke> japa: bad decision 13:34:34 <Japa_> Fair enough 13:34:43 <Japa_> I'll keep that for the realistic color option 13:34:50 <alluke> ok 13:34:55 <Belugas> grrrrrr... 13:35:01 <Japa_> Which I'll most likely skip because I never really use newgrf options 13:35:12 <Pinkbeast> Japa_: Well, I do think there's room for a "middle" option, where one of those would be primary CC with a white stripe and one white with a primary CC stripe 13:35:46 <Pinkbeast> ... like the way freight locos are black lined with CC in UKRS2, or the way modern British locos might be 2CC with a yellow nose 13:36:10 <alluke> us set has mainly relistic liveries, but some engines have some little detail in 2cc 13:36:28 <alluke> stripe for example 13:43:16 <V453000> a player who's playing for gameplay will almost always use the fastest thing possible <---- wrong :) 13:43:33 <alluke> yes 13:44:11 <V453000> people are just used to the fact that usually realistic train sets have the fastest train also strongest 13:44:38 <V453000> typically 2cc or dutch trains for example 13:44:39 <alluke> i use 50 kmh shunters for some routes where i could use 140 kmh mainline rockets but i dont want to 13:44:44 <Pinkbeast> V453000: Yes, yes, NUTS advocacy aside 13:44:59 <V453000> I didnt mention nuts yet? :) 13:45:21 <Pinkbeast> V453000: I know, and now I've spared you from getting to it. :-/ 13:46:05 <Pinkbeast> OTTD does strongly incentivise the use of fast trains - not just by payments but by network availability - and it's no surprise that people tend to use them. 13:46:31 <Pinkbeast> And yeah, short of pax vs. freight, any semi-realistic set is generally going to have fast=~powerful 13:46:49 <V453000> I dont see how does openttd suggest to use fast trains except station ratings and payments 13:46:56 <V453000> if you dont have good acceleration, you get jams 13:47:26 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:47:34 <Pinkbeast> V453000: For a given capacity per train and overall transport capacity, slower trains means more trains. 13:47:36 <V453000> obviously people use the fastest trains if they are also strongest, why would they do otherwise, would make no sense 13:47:54 <Pinkbeast> V453000: Er... yes, that is obvious, that's sort of my point 13:47:57 <V453000> code slower trains with more capacity? 13:49:02 <V453000> also, if faster trains jam, they wont have as high transportation power as stronger trains will 13:49:09 <Pinkbeast> V453000: Yes, clearly that would change matters. But it's not how OTTD sets typically are (aside from pax vs freight engines) 13:49:53 <V453000> -> ottd sets typically are bad? 13:50:18 <Pinkbeast> V453000: I think that depends on what you want them to do, and no, I don't think they are at all. 13:51:05 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:51:10 <Pinkbeast> I think it's more that OTTD's payment model, time and distance "scales", etc do not make it viable to run (say) a slow branch line service with cheap locomotives. (Track newGRFs with speed limits help a bit there, I suppose, but run into the "money is unlimited" problem) 13:51:15 <V453000> I want them to make any sense when choosing vehicles 13:51:23 <V453000> money is irrelevant in game logic 13:53:20 <Japa_> I'm gonna go ahead and assume it's a good idea to have an existing 4x zoom passenger carriage to draw my engine in front of, to make sure it kinda fits 13:53:46 *** DanMacK [~63ffa3b9@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 13:53:57 <V453000> 1x is enough :) 13:53:58 <Pinkbeast> Japa_: A useful thing Pikka did for UKRS2 (and other people do) is to start with a rougly loading gauge size box 13:54:22 <DanMacK> Working on a train set Japa? 13:54:48 <Japa_> DanMacK, I'm starting with one engine, for now. Then I'll see what happens. 13:55:07 <DanMacK> Cool 13:55:22 *** Dozer| [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 13:55:29 <Japa_> Pinkbeast, how you mean? 13:55:38 <DanMacK> Haven't gotten into the coding side if things 13:55:55 <DanMacK> Pikka has templates for various sizes as well as offsets 13:57:11 *** Dozer is now known as Guest77 13:57:11 *** Dozer| is now known as Dozer 13:58:16 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:58:30 <DanMacK> what loco are you doing? 13:58:50 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 13:59:48 <Japa_> Indian high speed passenger electric 13:59:50 <Pinkbeast> Japa_: Suppose you had a rectangular box - not solid - just the edges - resting on the railway line, so big that any carriage or locomotive would fit into it. Draw that, and now you have a guide to the overall lines of a sprite. 14:00:17 <Japa_> Pinkbeast, I have that already. Just wondering if I should have wheels on there, and what size they should be, etc 14:00:42 <DanMacK> Japa, you have the sprites? 14:01:02 <Japa_> DanMacK, not yet, I'm just starting to draw them 14:01:25 <DanMacK> OK, what loco are you doing? I have a bit of spriting experience and can give suggestions :P 14:02:01 *** Guest77 [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:03:36 <Japa_> http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/0/5/7/1057.1104277620.jpg 14:03:38 <Japa_> This guy 14:04:18 <DanMacK> 2px for wheels 14:04:54 <Japa_> I'll translate that to 8 because I'm doing a 4x zoom sprite 14:05:03 <DanMacK> ahhh, yeah 14:05:07 <Japa_> though maybe I should draw a smaller zoom first 14:05:22 <DanMacK> might be easier to draw large then resize 14:05:22 <Japa_> Yeah, I'll do that 14:05:41 <Japa_> Well, if I draw small first, then I can resize it up and add detail 14:05:48 <DanMacK> never done larger ones, I've just done 1X mostly 14:05:52 <Japa_> smaller is less pixels to deal with 14:05:58 <DanMacK> it is 14:06:16 <DanMacK> but it's also a pain to change everything and detail when its sized up 14:06:18 *** fjb is now known as Guest82 14:06:19 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:06:31 <DanMacK> I've tried sizing up 14:08:12 <Japa_> I'll do this one small first, then try the next one different 14:08:16 <Japa_> and compare 14:09:59 *** Guest82 [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:14:30 *** TheMask96 [martijn@89.104.166.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:15:36 *** TheMask96 [martijn@89.104.166.242] has joined #openttd 14:21:44 <Japa_> http://i.imgur.com/yTkbbd5.png 14:21:59 <Japa_> Hmm... getting the overal shape is kinda hard here 14:23:32 <DanMacK> hmmm 14:24:06 <Japa_> Am I on the right track, though? 14:25:52 <DanMacK> yeah 14:26:06 <DanMacK> I'd add a pixel on the end to reduce the slope 14:27:02 <DanMacK> bbiab 14:29:20 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 14:35:07 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@zeroshell2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:38:51 <Japa_> http://i.imgur.com/PtbyfyP.png 14:39:06 <Japa_> How does this look so far? 14:44:39 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:55:42 *** Dozer| [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 15:00:18 *** Dozer [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:00:19 *** Dozer| is now known as Dozer 15:01:15 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.214.60.175] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:01:24 <alluke> juzza1: is pendolino 35% faster in curves than other trains? 15:05:05 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 15:05:10 <planetmaker> Dozer, there's no general rule on what newgrfs you can combine successfully 15:05:31 <planetmaker> if there's one rule, it is that you can only have one industry newgrf (as they usually define cargos) 15:05:34 <V453000> black magix of experience and trying 15:06:11 <planetmaker> but there are exceptions where NewGRFs do more than what their name suggests - and that can have side effects, leading to incompatibility with other things 15:06:47 <planetmaker> like trainsets defining a "regearing cargo". Or house sets defining industries. 15:07:10 <planetmaker> Or simply malicious authors which will disable their set or others if they find NewGRFs which they don't like 15:07:23 <planetmaker> we have those, too ;-) 15:07:44 <juzza1> alluke: yes, they have the tilt bonus 15:08:37 <planetmaker> iirc openttd's tilt bonus is 20% 15:10:02 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 15:10:05 <alluke> cant that be adjusted? 15:15:10 <planetmaker> no 15:15:16 <planetmaker> well. yes. 15:15:21 <planetmaker> change source code ;-) 15:16:42 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 15:18:38 <DanMacK> pm, you're not referring to OzTrans are you? lol 15:20:04 <alluke> is there boat drawing templates anywhere? 15:20:34 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-150.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:15 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-150.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:21:54 <alluke> id like to try drawing one boat 15:21:57 <DanMacK> Use the FISH ones 15:22:01 <alluke> about 10 meters long 15:22:21 <alluke> danmack: where are those? 15:23:15 <DanMacK> FISH repository 15:23:44 *** KouDy_ [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:31:59 <alluke> danmack: whats the exact path? cant find any from graphics_sources or src/templates 15:33:39 <DanMacK> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/show/src/graphics 15:34:32 <DanMacK> 10m? What's the boat you want to draw? 15:36:12 <alluke> little boat that carries passengers between island and city 15:36:27 <alluke> http://www.uunisaari.com/images/slideshow/liikenne/20130304_liikenne_01.jpg 15:37:15 <alluke> log tug seems to be about same size 15:41:30 <DanMacK> Probably the harbour point utility ship 15:56:07 <DanMacK> 27 pass capacity, seems to be just right for that 15:57:54 <Dozer> planetmaker thank you for the wise words! :) 15:58:54 *** Jap-mobile [~Japa@112.79.37.49] has joined #openttd 15:59:43 <Jap-mobile> Oh god dammit. I was idling in #ottd and never noticed it was empty. 16:02:31 *** TheMask96 [martijn@89.104.166.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:07:08 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:07:17 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@87.114.21.53] has joined #openttd 16:13:20 <alluke> hmm 16:13:44 <alluke> how should i draw the roof shape 16:21:37 <Jap-mobile> What do you got so far? 16:24:47 <alluke> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1004368/boat.png that 16:25:00 *** retro|cz [~retro@94.142.237.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:25:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the / view looks somewhat flat 16:26:04 <alluke> yeah 16:26:14 <alluke> the shape is hard to do 16:26:24 <Eddi|zuHause> should remove some pixels at the bottom and add some at the top 16:27:04 <alluke> well, the lower edges of the roof are straight 16:27:09 <alluke> only upper is curved 16:27:25 <alluke> forgot to do that in I -view 16:28:54 <Jap-mobile> alluke: the lines far edges of the roof should be half the width 16:29:28 <Jap-mobile> / 16:29:41 <Jap-mobile> in that view 16:29:48 <alluke> ill try 16:31:01 <Jap-mobile> Basically, the part of the roof sloping away from the viewer needs to appear narrower than the one facing head-on 16:35:40 <Jap-mobile> I posted an engine earlier that shows what I'm talking about, but I don't have the link anymore Cus I'm not at my computer. 16:35:40 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:17 <alluke> how does that look? 16:36:19 <alluke> link is same 16:38:57 <Jap-mobile> Quite a bit better, though now the topmost portion of each orange piece looks oddly flat 16:39:04 <alluke> yeah 16:39:07 <alluke> caught my eye too 16:39:38 <Jap-mobile> Which is fine if they're more dome-like than they look in the I view. 16:39:59 <Jap-mobile> They look like tarps billowing in the wind. 16:40:31 <alluke> actually, they are tarp http://www.uunisaari.com/images/slideshow/liikenne/20130304_liikenne_01.jpg 16:41:30 <Jap-mobile> Yeah, but that's quite a bit more stiff than the sprite looks 16:47:28 *** kais58__ is now known as kais58|AFK 16:48:38 *** retro|cz [~retro@94.113.241.2.static.b2b.upcbusiness.cz] has joined #openttd 16:53:48 *** Jap-mobile [~Japa@112.79.37.49] has quit [Quit: Bye] 16:54:40 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.105.139] has joined #openttd 16:58:16 <Japa> What's the quickest way to see my sprite ingame? 16:58:34 <Japa> Assume I care not about any stats or whatnot 16:59:03 <alluke> photoshop :P 16:59:56 <DanMacK> heh 16:59:59 *** mouseym [~mouseym@89.206.243.136] has joined #openttd 17:00:41 <planetmaker> Japa, that highly depends on what tools you're acustomed with, what you have available etc 17:01:01 <Japa> I've never done it before, so have no tools 17:01:03 <planetmaker> personally I'd clone a similar project and hack my sprites into it 17:01:39 <planetmaker> then "quick" might be relative, depending on how accustomed you're to programming 17:01:47 <Bad_Brett> wouldn't it be quicker do code a really basic newgrf? 17:02:03 <DanMacK> or ask somebody that knows how to do it :P 17:02:16 <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, why? If I can take an existing vehicle NewGRF and just replace some sprites there? It's easy :-) 17:02:27 <planetmaker> (or house or industry or new object, whatever) 17:02:57 <planetmaker> other than that, a very basic newgrf is: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/make-nml 17:03:10 <planetmaker> you can nearly be not more basic :-) 17:03:14 <planetmaker> well, slightly 17:03:33 <planetmaker> one can skip the preprocessor stuff :D 17:03:47 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 17:04:35 <Bad_Brett> i think the nml tutorial is a good start though 17:05:08 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/documents/28 might help, too 17:05:25 <planetmaker> and yes, the NML tutorial at http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial 17:06:06 <planetmaker> it may all look very complicated if you've never done something like this, Japa 17:06:17 <planetmaker> but... it looks more complicated than it really is :-) 17:06:30 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B85C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:06:49 <Bad_Brett> i don't know... this stuff is actually quite complicated :-P 17:06:51 <Japa> I've worked on a program that reads the memory of a closed source game and displays a map of the current level in isometric tiles. 17:06:55 <Bad_Brett> at least in my opinion 17:06:58 <Japa> I think I can handle it 17:07:05 <planetmaker> good :-) 17:07:29 <planetmaker> don't be shy to ask, Japa 17:07:56 * DanMacK doesn't touch coding... lol 17:08:16 <Bad_Brett> oh, i have a question for planetmaker! :-D 17:08:25 <planetmaker> but you managed to get commit access, DanMacK :-) 17:08:47 <Bad_Brett> how many ticks is house tile loop? 17:08:49 <planetmaker> and often newgrfs without graphics... are well... :-) 17:08:59 <planetmaker> lol. dunno 17:09:05 <Bad_Brett> damn :P 17:09:11 <planetmaker> tile loop 17:09:14 <planetmaker> once per tick 17:09:30 *** tmsft [~id@37.140.124.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:09:49 <Bad_Brett> in that case re-randomizing should happen all the time, right? 17:09:54 <Bad_Brett> i must have messed up then 17:10:11 <planetmaker> dunno 17:11:11 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc053.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:11:37 <planetmaker> not actually sure that house tiles are ever re-randomized. Why should they? 17:12:29 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58__ 17:12:35 <Bad_Brett> let's say i have 10 different sound effects and want to creat an irregular pattern 17:12:40 <Bad_Brett> *create 17:13:08 <planetmaker> I don't see that house random bits are ever re-randomized 17:13:12 <planetmaker> once the house is built 17:13:19 <planetmaker> is there such callback? 17:13:48 <DanMacK> true 17:15:10 <Eddi|zuHause> tile loop is every 256 ticks 17:15:35 <Bad_Brett> just like industry tiles then 17:15:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 17:16:14 <Eddi|zuHause> and grass growth, and fence placement, and ... 17:17:13 <Bad_Brett> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Random_switch 17:17:28 <Bad_Brett> it should work for houses 17:17:34 <Bad_Brett> according to that page 17:18:48 <Bad_Brett> i've tried to call both the anim_control and the anim_next_frame callbacks with the random_switch, but re-randomizing only seems to happen from time to time 17:18:53 <Eddi|zuHause> note that "triggers" don't work in callbacks 17:19:59 <Eddi|zuHause> triggers are evaluated in some undocumented "CB 1", which means usually only the default chain is evaluated, and all triggers outside this chain are ignored 17:20:20 <Bad_Brett> hmm 17:20:31 <Japa> Do road and rail vehicles have the same length? 17:20:38 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 17:20:45 <Pinkbeast> Japa: That depends on the vehicle 17:21:11 <Japa> Pinkbeast, in the sense of slapping my engine sprite on a road vehicle 17:21:25 <Bad_Brett> in that case, it's not possible to add random sound effects to a callback? 17:21:43 <Pinkbeast> Japa: If you mean "are they in the same scale", that also depends, but I would try for it if possible. 17:21:45 *** DanMacK [~63ffa3b9@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:21:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Bad_Brett: the random switch works, just it won't rerandomize 17:22:08 <Bad_Brett> yeah... just as i expected then 17:22:22 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22:26 <Eddi|zuHause> you need a second random switch for the rerandomization 17:22:27 <Bad_Brett> because the pattern is random in the beginning, but when the animation loops, so does the pattern 17:22:30 <Japa> How worried should I be that somebody else might share my initials? 17:23:02 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:23:05 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:23:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Japa: we have a list of all GRFIDs that ever appeared on a multiplayer server 17:23:30 <Japa> link? 17:23:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure planetmaker has that bookmarked :) 17:24:04 <planetmaker> Japa, I'd not be worried. There are about 2**32 grfIDs. we have maybe a few hundret distinct newgrfs 17:24:20 <Japa> Okay 17:24:24 <Bad_Brett> Eddi: should i call that switch directly from the random_trigger callback? 17:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Bad_Brett: that sounds right 17:25:00 <Bad_Brett> instead of calling my anim_control switch 17:25:08 <Bad_Brett> okay, thanks, i'll try that 17:25:40 <Eddi|zuHause> you can call the same switch from both callbacks 17:26:02 <Japa> Can repositories in the devzone be downloaded as a single package, or are my options either downloading file by file, or installing mercurial? 17:26:32 * Japa has no desire to install mercurial if he doesn't have to 17:26:56 <Eddi|zuHause> you should really use mercurial, but i have no clue about your original question 17:27:02 <planetmaker> I would highly recommend to install that, though, Japa 17:27:19 <planetmaker> once accustomed to version control you'll not want to miss it 17:27:44 <Japa> Oh, it's not that. 17:27:58 <Japa> I just don't want to install a version control that's not gir. 17:28:00 <Japa> git 17:28:15 <planetmaker> lol 17:28:40 <frosch123> Japa: http://devs.openttd.org/~rubidium/newgrf.html 17:28:45 <Japa> My laptop is already running low on space and is slow as all hell 17:28:51 <planetmaker> the bundle server has often source bundles of packages 17:29:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Japa: well i'm fairly sure you can use git 17:29:59 <planetmaker> Japa, the hg install is certainly not bigger than an average newgrf repository ;-) 17:30:51 <Japa> I'll install it once I need to start sharing stuff or contributing in general. 17:30:51 <planetmaker> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ 17:31:12 <planetmaker> http://hgweb.openttdcoop.org/ might be useful, too 17:31:35 <planetmaker> hm, I wonder why redmine misses that "download repo as <whatever>" button 17:33:04 * Japa facepalms 17:33:09 <Japa> I already had HG installed 17:33:15 <planetmaker> lol 17:35:26 *** longtomjr [~oftc-webi@41-132-227-140.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #openttd 17:36:17 <longtomjr> HEy guys.. how do you know how much wagons you can put to a locomotive 17:36:24 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:40 <planetmaker> you can attach as many till you hit the allowed train length 17:36:41 <Rubidium> 16*64-1? 17:36:43 <Pinkbeast> longtomjr: That depends on the locomotive, the weight of the loaded wagons, the terrain... 17:36:58 <planetmaker> the speed reached with max wagons is another question 17:37:04 <planetmaker> try what works for you 17:37:10 <Eddi|zuHause> maximum train length is 64 tiles 17:37:39 <Eddi|zuHause> with the default vehicle length that makes 1 engine and 127 wagons, with shorter wagons you can add more 17:37:54 <longtomjr> How many wagons will not affect the top speed on flat land per 500hp 17:37:58 <Rubidium> as I said, roughly 16*64-1 17:38:13 <Pinkbeast> longtomjr: That depends on the wagons. 17:38:16 <Eddi|zuHause> 500hp is not a lot 17:38:38 <Eddi|zuHause> also, it depends on the acceleration model 17:38:38 <Pinkbeast> longtomjr: There is (alas) no facility to estimate the speed of a train as there is in other railway games, short of experimentation. 17:38:41 <longtomjr> Yep I know... How much hp does one wagon use 17:38:49 * Rubidium assumes top speed of 1, wagon weight of 0, drag of 0, wagon capacity of 0, then... I guess it can be done ;) 17:38:49 <Japa> http://i.imgur.com/UueJWND.png 17:38:52 <Pinkbeast> longtomjr: That depends on the wagons. 17:38:54 <Japa> So here's my sprite so far 17:39:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Japa: i think the front looks too steep 17:39:35 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, gtg 17:39:40 <Japa> It's supposed to be a little steep 17:39:52 <Japa> but I'm not sure how to make it less steep and not flat 17:40:53 <longtomjr> oh ok,,, Is there a sum to do that you can determan how many hp is used for one ton.. 17:40:54 <Pinkbeast> longtomjr: Also (generally speaking) a train with _just_ enough power to reach maximum speed will accelerate agonisingly. 17:41:29 <Pinkbeast> longtomjr: No, because on the flat the factor informing steady speed is air drag not weight. 17:42:17 <longtomjr> yep I know... I am just searching for a nice ecuation to work with... 17:42:27 <longtomjr> *equation 17:42:32 <Pinkbeast> longtomjr: It would never be HP/ton. 17:43:04 <Pinkbeast> longtomjr: It's going to be a lot easier to create a new game, cheat yourself a pile of money, and experiment. 17:43:19 <longtomjr> Ok... I guess 17:43:35 <Pinkbeast> longtomjr: I would _like_ it if OTTD would provide an estimate of loaded speed in various terrain when assembling a train, but it doesn't. 17:43:39 <planetmaker> also air drag coefficient of engine. slope steepness play a role. rolling friction coefficient of rail type 17:44:11 <Pinkbeast> planetmaker: Slope steepness does not play a role; "on flat land". :-) 17:44:28 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 17:44:29 <planetmaker> yes. But there's rarely any rail route ingame which is perfectly flat. At least in my games 17:45:06 <planetmaker> and then there's newgrf strangeness... powered wagons, wagon speed limits, ... 17:45:21 <Pinkbeast> planetmaker: Indeed, but that was the question that was asked (and it's quite practical to flatten a route once money becomes a non-issue...) 17:45:41 <planetmaker> I disagree 17:45:45 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-65-113-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 17:45:56 <planetmaker> Just buy appropriate engines for the trains :-) 17:46:12 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25796 /trunk/src/lang (7 files) (2013-09-23 17:45:58 UTC) 17:46:13 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:46:14 <DorpsGek> croatian - 2 changes by VoyagerOne 17:46:15 <DorpsGek> english_US - 53 changes by Supercheese 17:46:16 <DorpsGek> finnish - 2 changes by jpx_ 17:46:17 <DorpsGek> german - 2 changes by Jogio 17:46:18 <DorpsGek> indonesian - 2 changes by UseYourIllusion 17:46:19 <DorpsGek> italian - 2 changes by lorenzodv 17:46:20 <DorpsGek> slovak - 2 changes by Milsa 17:46:23 <planetmaker> and build such that corners don't slow down the train needlessly 17:46:26 <Pinkbeast> planetmaker: I don't see that you can disagree with either part of that. The question was "on flat land", that is a simple fact, and it is in fact practical to flatten terrain once money is unlimited. 17:46:35 <planetmaker> *sigh* 17:46:53 <planetmaker> and it's indeed not practical, Pinkbeast 17:47:34 <planetmaker> not even necessarily feasible 17:48:32 <Pinkbeast> I've *played* the sort of silly game where every train goes producer-consumer with no height transitions except those inherent in the positions of the industries (and even then you can position the stations up and down a bit), so... 17:49:11 <planetmaker> yes. Those people also never build diagonal rail lines. Just square pattern with 45° corners 17:49:17 <planetmaker> Disgusting as hell. Nor practical 17:49:27 <planetmaker> As any decently configured train will not mind a single slope 17:50:06 <Pinkbeast> I certainly had diagonal lines in those games and I don't think "practical" means what you think it means. It's not the same as optimal or most aesthetically pleasing. 17:51:36 <longtomjr> Hey guys... How can you edit one locomotive and carraige to have 1000 hp and 10t 17:53:03 <Pinkbeast> longtomjr: http://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_development_tools (but why?) 17:53:04 <planetmaker> Pinkbeast, I think "practical" in this way means "most easy to build". And that to me is simply dragging the rails. without terraforming 17:53:11 <planetmaker> and that works surprisingly well. 17:53:22 <Pinkbeast> planetmaker: No, that is more akin to "optimal". 17:53:22 <planetmaker> just build the trains to be able to climb 17:54:16 <Pinkbeast> Practical means more "not excessively difficult". If I want to get in the house, it's optimal to go in the front door, it's practical to go in the back door, and it's impractical to climb in the bedroom window. 17:54:44 <planetmaker> ok. In your idea "not excessively difficult": it's easier to terraform + build than just build? Strange... 17:54:57 <Pinkbeast> planetmaker: Again you're speaking what is optimal. 17:55:02 <planetmaker> no 17:55:14 <planetmaker> I'm talking about the easiest way to build 17:55:18 <Pinkbeast> It certainly is _easier_ to just build, but it is not difficulty to terraform. 17:55:20 <longtomjr> I want to do it to work out the equation meself.. lol 17:55:21 <planetmaker> and that is to just lay tracks 17:55:21 <Pinkbeast> *difficult. 17:55:33 <Pinkbeast> longtomjr: Start from the source code? 17:55:40 <planetmaker> longtomjr, then checkout the equations in the source code 17:55:57 <planetmaker> reverse engineering it by observation will be impossible 17:56:18 <Pinkbeast> The easiest option is not the only practical option. It is practical to make my stations look pretty with station sets. 17:57:16 <longtomjr> I cant read source... 17:57:26 <longtomjr> I only know python... And a bit of bash 17:58:20 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3C62.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:58:30 <Pinkbeast> Then I'm afraid you're a bit stuck. (As planetmaker and I note, the theoretical maximum speed on the flat is rarely a useful thing to know). 18:00:14 *** Netsplit resistance.oftc.net <-> oxygen.oftc.net quits: DarkAceZ, Dozer, kais58__, Progman, eQualizer, TheDude, TrueBrain, xT2, Eddi|zuHause 18:00:19 <planetmaker> so you can't follow an equation in English when you're a French native speaker? 18:00:59 <longtomjr> Yep... But with that info you will be able to be used to calculate your route time... 18:01:09 *** Netsplit over, joins: Progman, Dozer, eQualizer, Eddi|zuHause, xT2, kais58__, TheDude, TrueBrain 18:01:12 <longtomjr> and with how many wagons,\ 18:01:39 <planetmaker> wagons weigh differently... and differently again with cargo. Depending on how much they carry and what cargo they carry 18:01:53 <Pinkbeast> longtomjr: No, you won't (even on a completely flat railway) because of acceleration times. 18:01:56 <longtomjr> But the problem is finding where the equation is in the 3mil line french mathematics manual 18:02:07 <Pinkbeast> ... and then tractive effort rears its ugly head 18:02:15 <planetmaker> ^ 18:02:44 <Pinkbeast> I'm looking at you, UKRS2 4-2-0 Crampton. 18:02:48 <longtomjr> yep... But you will be able to calculate that to if you have the numbers 18:03:00 <longtomjr> What is tractive effort 18:03:24 <Pinkbeast> longtomjr: A measure of the amount of force the locomotive can bring to bear. 18:03:36 <planetmaker> for instance the curve looks like: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=751838#p751838 18:04:10 <planetmaker> and yes, OpenTTD *does* model that 18:04:23 <planetmaker> even though length units and time units are... game-adopted 18:05:02 <longtomjr> oh yes... But whit a very complicated equation you will be able to calculate everything... 18:05:03 <Pinkbeast> This is what (besides maximum speeds) divides pax and freight locomotives; an express pax locomotive may have high power, but its low tractive effort means it can't accelerate heavy loads from a stop. 18:05:27 <longtomjr> Then you can write a little script and then you can play the most effective way 18:06:19 <Pinkbeast> longtomjr: There isn't really a "most effective" way. A more powerful locomotive (with no worse T.E.) will always run around a given route a _bit_ faster. 18:07:34 <longtomjr> lol... I think I am kicking a dead horse here... but it would have been nice if there was a calculator for that 18:08:18 <Pinkbeast> longtomjr: In most sets with wagon and loco speed limits, the theoretical maximum speed for a practical consist is well above the speed limit of some component part. 18:08:38 <planetmaker> longtomjr, ground_vehicle.cpp:105 18:10:10 <V453000> XD 18:10:53 <planetmaker> http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/2b0aa98e8c8e/src/ground_vehicle.cpp#l105 18:11:17 <Pinkbeast> longtomjr: What I mean is that if I take (say) a http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php/2-8-0_8F and tack steel open wagons from the same set (max speed 50mph) on the back... 18:11:48 <Pinkbeast> ... at the point the train's maximum flat speed gets down to 50mph, it's already unfeasibly huge, can't go up hills, and accelerates like a dog. 18:17:06 <michi_cc> Bad_Brett: If you want to use rerandomized together with callbacks in NML, you need to make a second, duplicate random switch, which 1) is called in the default (graphics) section, 2) branches to the same next switch/spriteset on all choices, and 3) is declared as dependent on the real random switch (to make sure it uses the same bits). 18:31:36 *** retro|cz [~retro@94.113.241.2.static.b2b.upcbusiness.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:34:18 <AndreasB> Are there any way to replace old vehicle with same type auto? 18:34:36 <AndreasB> is there* 18:34:49 *** DDR [~chatzilla@154.20.134.39] has joined #openttd 18:37:15 <planetmaker> yes. It's called "autorenew" 18:37:24 <planetmaker> and only works as long as you can still buy the vehicle 18:41:01 <AndreasB> how do I turn that on? 18:42:01 <Pinkbeast> AndreasB: IIRC there's a money threshold below which it won't happen. 18:43:05 <AndreasB> 16 million enough? 18:44:10 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50.107.55.36] has joined #openttd 18:44:31 <AndreasB> ps. I am in multiplayter 18:45:09 <Pinkbeast> AndreasB: OK, whatever the issue is, it's not cash. ISTR the default threshold is L100,000 18:45:38 <planetmaker> read wiki 18:46:13 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host180-136-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:46:30 <AndreasB> I fixed it another eway 18:46:33 <AndreasB> I downgraded 18:46:42 <AndreasB> next year or year after I upgrade again 18:48:38 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:19 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 18:49:31 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:50:17 <Japa> How do I figure out what tractive effort to put? 18:51:34 <planetmaker> whatever seems sensible to you :-) 18:51:45 <planetmaker> 250kN is a strong and heavy engine 18:52:24 <Japa> nevermind, I forgot to RTFM 18:52:54 <Japa> where it says that it's set as a fraction of weight, and that rail has 0.3 as a good value 18:53:12 <planetmaker> that's the tractive effort coefficient. yes 18:57:26 <Wolf01> o/ 18:58:26 *** montalvo [~montalvo@papc-ma276.st-andrews.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 19:03:12 <Japa> http://i.imgur.com/4UM1PKZ.png 19:03:14 <Japa> Hm... 19:03:18 <Japa> Too light? 19:07:08 <Pinkbeast> Japa: I assume like ~all modern equipment all the weight of the loco does rest on the driving wheels 19:07:31 <Japa> Pinkbeast, I mean lightly colored 19:07:48 <Pinkbeast> Japa: I'm just checking about tractive effort first. 19:08:35 <Wolf01> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bricktrix/9876899614/ ò_O there's something strange in this picture 19:11:25 <Taede> nicely done 19:11:27 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:12:06 <longtomjr> HEy guys... Any good guides to station building and signaling? 19:12:29 <V453000> openttdcoop.org 19:16:27 <Japa> I have no idea how I'm gonna do these windows 19:17:02 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 19:24:03 <Bad_Brett> looks like a swedish engine 19:26:11 <Japa> http://i.imgur.com/xaiHgpd.png got the front windows looking a little better,I think 19:27:53 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-169.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 19:32:19 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 19:35:13 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:36:58 *** Yuyuimg [~Yuyuimg@host86-141-62-48.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:37:03 <Yuyuimg> hi 19:39:20 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-78-45-93-251.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 19:39:50 <Yuyuimg> hi 19:40:17 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-150.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:02 <Yuyuimg> hi 19:46:59 <__ln__> again? 19:47:04 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:52:00 *** longtomjr [~oftc-webi@41-132-227-140.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:55 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:02:41 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-150.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:03:19 <Yuyuimg> hi 20:03:28 *** Yuyuimg [~Yuyuimg@host86-141-62-48.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has left #openttd [] 20:06:32 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:10 <andythenorth> he's friendly 20:10:17 <andythenorth> nobody said hi back :( 20:11:40 <__ln__> we need to increase funding for the greetings department 20:11:50 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-169.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 20:16:02 <andythenorth> get the bot to do it 20:16:05 <andythenorth> DorpsGek: hi 20:17:07 *** alluke [~oftc-webi@cs181208223.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:28:09 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: hi 20:28:19 <andythenorth> bit slow DorpsGek 20:28:32 * glx was away ;) 20:35:45 *** Extrems1 [borgs@24.157.137.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:50:46 *** Extrems [borgs@24.157.137.219] has joined #openttd 20:53:40 *** mouseym [~mouseym@89.206.243.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:54:18 <Wolf01> 'night all 20:54:27 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:55:49 *** Dozer| [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 21:00:21 *** roadt_ [~roadt@114.96.131.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:00:52 *** Dozer [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:00:52 *** Dozer| is now known as Dozer 21:03:54 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:06:49 <andythenorth> what's the go with using 4x sprites? 21:06:51 <andythenorth> is it trivial? 21:06:58 <andythenorth> does it increase nml compile times? 21:07:28 <Rubidium> the last is a "yes" 21:07:38 <Bad_Brett> i can confirm that ;-) 21:07:49 <Rubidium> the middle is a "fairly close to trivial" 21:09:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Alternative_sprites 21:09:43 <andythenorth> thanks :) 21:10:47 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 21:14:35 <Bad_Brett> hmm... i still don't get the re-randomizing to work... andy, is there any industry from FIRS that uses constant re-randomizing? 21:17:48 <andythenorth> ? 21:18:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6D0CA.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 21:19:26 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 21:25:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6A450.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:28:07 <frosch123> Bad_Brett: the important thing is that you put the triggers into the graphics chain 21:28:22 <frosch123> if you want to use the randomness in a callback you need two random actions 21:28:39 <frosch123> one for triggers, one for evaluating the random 21:29:00 <frosch123> anyway, night 21:29:03 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc053.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:31:24 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-65-113-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 21:32:00 <andythenorth> bed time eh? 21:32:01 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 21:39:38 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B85C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:06 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:43:19 <Bad_Brett> thanks frosch123... too late :-P 21:57:53 <Bad_Brett> damn, i still don't get it... can someone post the url to a nml file with randomness in callback? 22:01:02 *** Zuu [~Zuu@sip.sdrf.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:01:28 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:06:18 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-169.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 22:13:35 <juzza1> i've done it (for vehicles) like it 22:13:46 <juzza1> *like it's here at the bottom http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Random_switch 22:17:39 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:21:26 <Bad_Brett> thanks a lot 22:21:47 <Bad_Brett> but wait... no link? 22:21:48 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-169.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 22:21:49 <Bad_Brett> :) 22:22:11 <Bad_Brett> ah i see 22:23:02 <Bad_Brett> but that switch block is only called when something happens, right? 22:24:01 <juzza1> i dont really understand why it says "The last parameter <triggers> is optional and allows re-randomizing when certain conditions occur." but later "Note that re-randomizing is done only during a special callback, random_trigger." 22:24:20 <Bad_Brett> yeah, i didn't get that one either 22:24:32 <juzza1> well, this is how it works for vehicles:http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/finnishtrainset/repository/entry/src/wagons/wa_occ.pnml 22:24:38 <juzza1> default "cb" calls the random switch 22:25:53 <Bad_Brett> my problem is that i have a looping animation 22:26:12 <Bad_Brett> so the callback anim_control starts the animation 22:27:15 <Bad_Brett> and random values are generated 22:27:34 <Bad_Brett> but, as long as the switch is active, i only get the same random values 22:28:50 <Bad_Brett> in your case. you should get new values every time the player hits the refit button 22:30:46 <Bad_Brett> ...why am I doing this to mysel? :-P 22:34:14 <juzza1> can you paste the code anywhere? 22:39:35 <Bad_Brett> the code is huge... but i can make an example of what i'm trying to do 22:43:51 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:46:43 <Bad_Brett> hmm i might have accidently found the error 22:55:17 *** Dozer| [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 22:55:30 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3C62.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 23:00:53 *** Dozer [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:00:54 *** Dozer| is now known as Dozer 23:01:13 *** Dozer [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -] 23:27:49 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:28:12 *** glx [~glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:f16b:e698:2dfc:f17c] has joined #openttd 23:34:45 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.105.139] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:07 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.105.139] has joined #openttd 23:35:57 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:46:29 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-150.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:56 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:0:6979:842d] has joined #openttd 23:55:54 <AndreasB> trains go old so fast 23:56:13 <AndreasB> I renew them when they are 2 years old