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09:02:58 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.110.164] has joined #openttd 09:03:09 <andythenorth> I am avec le children right now, but I will try out your newfangled av8 later 09:03:25 <Pikka> o 09:03:28 <andythenorth> I am hoping frosch might make a new GS 09:03:41 <andythenorth> Silicon Valleys 09:03:45 <Pikka> there's not much to try out really. :D very basic. 09:03:49 <andythenorth> winner 09:03:51 <andythenorth> even better 09:03:54 <andythenorth> less is moar etc 09:04:23 <andythenorth> as long as there's a whirlybird with 40 crates of supplies, I'm happy 09:04:40 <Pikka> umm 09:04:54 <Pikka> actually the cargo capacities are rather more generous than av8 09:05:02 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:05:15 <andythenorth> the AV8 ones are certainly never too small 09:05:24 <andythenorth> not in my games anyway 09:05:27 <Pikka> "goods" capacities for the three helicopters are 20 / 30 / 50 09:05:32 <Pikka> good enough? 09:05:46 <Pikka> 1951 / 1987 / 2023 09:05:50 <andythenorth> 2023 :P 09:05:53 <andythenorth> I never play that far 09:06:01 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 09:06:03 <andythenorth> 30 will do, but I will end up with chopper polution 09:06:03 <Pikka> what, never? 09:06:08 <andythenorth> almost never 09:06:32 <andythenorth> is there some 737 ish thing? 09:06:34 * andythenorth could just look 09:06:41 * andythenorth looks 09:06:57 <Pikka> all the jets are large, though 09:08:40 <Pikka> any road 09:08:44 <Pikka> I'm off for dins 09:08:52 * andythenorth comes back 09:08:55 <andythenorth> yeah, it's good 09:08:59 <andythenorth> smashed out the park etc 09:09:06 <andythenorth> everything looks spot on 09:09:08 <andythenorth> except no elvis 09:09:18 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:09:21 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:09:37 <Pikka> should put elvis in HEQS :P 09:09:56 * Pikka bbanon 09:10:56 <andythenorth> bye bye 09:10:58 <andythenorth> HEQS is dying 09:11:48 <Alberth> more insane vehicle names? :) 09:13:21 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_(helicopter) 09:16:24 <Alberth> right, you give it the name of a singer, because another country used it in one of its states where the singer happened to live. :) 09:17:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 09:24:15 <Flygon> Elvis! 09:24:22 <Flygon> Why didn't Elvis stay here for 2013? :( 09:24:24 <Flygon> I LOVED Elvis! 09:25:18 <Flygon> Also 09:25:25 <Flygon> A 747 won't fly from Eglisstaoir to Hvolsvollur 09:25:30 <Flygon> Darn tile limits D: 09:26:25 <V453000> using stupidly large maps <3 09:29:21 <Flygon> 2048*2048 isn't stupidly large D: 09:35:34 <planetmaker> it's insanely large :P 09:35:44 <planetmaker> good morning :) 09:36:32 <Flygon> Huomenta! 09:36:40 <Flygon> But, yeah 09:36:42 <Flygon> Bugger me 09:36:44 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19FAA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:36:50 <Flygon> I'll have to run DMUs from Egli to Hvol x.x 09:39:05 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19FAA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:39:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19FAA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:49:30 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has quit [] 10:15:20 *** Haube [~michi@77-21-133-191-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 10:31:53 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host58-55-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 10:32:28 <Wolf01> hello o/ 10:32:52 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has joined #openttd 10:37:00 <Alberth> o/ 10:45:11 <Phreeze> i hate lighting.... 10:45:24 <Phreeze> should design all the locos for nightGFX only xD 10:45:36 <Phreeze> using black, blacker and not so black 10:45:41 <planetmaker> make it a NewGRF parameter ;) 10:45:52 *** TheDude [~Miranda@ip-89-176-28-82.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 10:46:08 <Phreeze> you didn't see the "ONLY" ;) 10:46:22 <planetmaker> pff! 10:46:56 <planetmaker> time for some wood chucking :D Or child caring. I shall see ;) 10:47:17 <planetmaker> maybe both :) Laters 10:47:18 <Phreeze> i need a 3rd video output...tv-stream + chat/photoshop + browser doesn't work out like that 10:47:28 <Phreeze> chuck the child 10:47:33 <Phreeze> problem solved :> 10:47:54 <planetmaker> the father has a 2nd axe. I might become scared 10:48:11 <Phreeze> then ..kill it with fire (TM) 10:49:33 <TheDude> hello 10:50:15 <TheDude> is Truebrain online sometimes? 10:51:24 <Alberth> seldom 10:51:56 <planetmaker> sometimes 10:51:57 <TheDude> he is manager of website, right? 10:52:08 <planetmaker> what about: just ask your question? 10:52:46 <TheDude> it's the profile page of openttd.org, I'd like to see it finished already, I though I could help with it 10:53:12 <planetmaker> profile? 10:53:17 <TheDude> http://account.openttd.org/en/profile 10:53:58 <planetmaker> that part is afaik in the svn repo 10:54:05 <planetmaker> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/extra/website/account?rev=26393 10:54:13 <planetmaker> python / django 10:55:11 <TheDude> I know website is in svn, but still, a word first about the form of the page would be better than just code something 10:55:39 <TheDude> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/extra/website/account/templates/account/profile.html?rev=26393 :-) 10:56:37 <TheDude> whom could I speak about it then? 10:58:51 <TheDude> or maybe even better question would be, is there a way to edit bananas account? 10:59:06 <planetmaker> as I have to leave now, too, I might actually suggest to try a discussion in our forums 10:59:22 <planetmaker> bananas accounts can be edited via phpldapadmin 11:00:02 <planetmaker> if you mean bananas = users using it. But that's general users. One account 11:00:54 <planetmaker> We've had some brief thoughts on that, but it's difficult :) Maybe I can find some old conversations given a bit search time 11:01:38 <TheDude> well, I meant things like editing mail, profile details of my own profile 11:02:06 <planetmaker> bananas itself is different and not exactly in the vcs due to coding style reasons mostly, mixing sensitive data hard-coded into it 11:02:27 <TheDude> phpldapadmin is only available to admins I guess, I dont want to bother admin to edit my account :-) 11:03:26 <TheDude> yeah, I said banana, but accounts are centralised, I meand editing account generally 11:03:30 <planetmaker> I know. I want that, too 11:03:48 <TheDude> there is even flyspray task for it https://bugs.openttd.org/task/3998?project=4 :-) 11:05:13 <planetmaker> Well, user accounts are not related to bananas. And that's in principle all in the VCS 11:06:16 <TheDude> I see, so how could I help with making some profile edit form? 11:09:35 <planetmaker> By writing the appropriate forms, I guess. The typical access is found in the code, e.g backend.py already. Maybe we can come up with a test environment 11:09:56 <planetmaker> As said, please lay out your plans in the forum, I really run late now 11:10:02 * Pikka returns 11:10:25 <planetmaker> alternatively use the issue you found in the issue tracker 11:10:45 <Pikka> My aunt got married last weekend and they had an elvis impersonater, it was good times. 11:10:49 <TheDude> ok, I will, thanks for info 11:10:58 <TheDude> dont let me delay you 11:40:46 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 11:45:58 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-166-173-232.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 11:49:37 *** manu [~manu@121-99-191-70.bng1.nct.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:59:11 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:04:55 *** blackhair [~blackhair@122.167.148.51] has joined #openttd 12:08:51 *** scrollback1 [~scrollbac@scrollback.io] has joined #openttd 12:10:58 <Eddi|zuHause> https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine/blob/c50fc8bc3cf112b2ccb0c8ae648895782f9a0d71/ivote-server/hes/vote_analyzer.py <-- i understand why they declared voting machines unconstitutional here... 12:10:58 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A8EA.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 12:11:27 <Eddi|zuHause> this code needs more "goto fail" 12:14:28 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16:06 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3186.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 12:41:40 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:52:19 <Flygon> Hmmmm 12:52:25 <Flygon> This'll be interesting 12:52:37 <Flygon> 200km/h train vs. aircraft with connecting subway train 12:52:43 <Flygon> And they're choosing the train 12:52:50 <Flygon> Despite aircraft being over 6 times faster 12:54:06 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 12:59:22 <lachlan> when trying to build a grf from source, the version shows as noREV. wat 13:00:27 *** lachlan is now known as TheStevens 13:03:16 <Alberth> it uses the hg repository and the hg tools for determining the revision you're building 13:03:41 <Alberth> if they are not present, there is no way to derive a revision 13:04:34 <Alberth> (assuming the grf you're building is stored in a hg repository) 13:04:34 <TheStevens> okay, so if I'm using subversion it breaks essentially? 13:06:06 <Alberth> it's not prepared for other VCSes, probably, since hg is the most used VCS at the devzone 13:06:25 <Alberth> iirc there is also 1 project using git, but no svn afaik 13:07:30 <Alberth> ie there is currently no need to support svn too, I think 13:08:20 <TheStevens> fair enough. I'll just have to hack together my own solution I guess. 13:08:38 <Alberth> but basically it asks the revision from the VCS, that is possible with svn too 13:09:44 <Alberth> if you can make it work together the existing code, the change could be considered for addition in the standard setup 13:10:17 <Alberth> +with 13:12:02 <Alberth> although svn is very useless for use by others, so I don't know if that would be a desired change 13:14:15 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:15:01 <TheStevens> that's fair enough. I simply picked it because it was the easiest to set up and use for my purposes. 13:17:31 <TheStevens> and the change is probably going to be a total of about 3 lines needing changing in the makefile anyway. 13:18:26 <Alberth> if you want to support both VCSes, it's more work probably, especially if you also handle not having the tools available 13:19:06 <Alberth> fyi, hg is even easier than svn, as the working copy is also the repository 13:19:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 13:19:31 <Alberth> hi andy 13:19:36 <andythenorth> o/ 13:20:04 <andythenorth> @seen frosch123 13:20:04 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 17 hours, 5 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <frosch123> "close all applications before installing" then reboot one or two times 13:20:16 <andythenorth> hmm 13:20:30 * andythenorth is itching for Silicon Valleys 13:20:44 <andythenorth> Alberth: should we learn Squirrel? o_O 13:21:47 <Alberth> want to make your own silicon? 13:22:35 <Alberth> I wrote some test-ish stuff in squirrel, but nothing serious yet 13:23:47 <TheStevens> I'll have a little looksie at hg. as a noob at repositories the svn docs seemed to be the easiest to understand for someone of my... skill 13:26:07 <andythenorth> I'm wondering how hard it would be to adapt SV to n cities 13:26:22 <andythenorth> whether it means re-writing everything, or if the current code can be packed up in a couple of loops 13:26:42 <Alberth> svn has the more fixed setup of a central repository. From that, the workflow follows, which is thus also fairly fixed, I can see it's more easier to manage at first 13:26:49 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on who is doing it :p 13:27:29 <andythenorth> I found a central repo a bit of a headache 13:27:32 <Alberth> hg is more flexible. You can use it like you use svn, but there are also other ways. This uncertainty makes the workflow also less easy to describe 13:27:34 <andythenorth> it seems more logical, but meh 13:27:48 <Pikka> as far as gamescripts go, better off taking the basic principle and making your own version from scratch, imo. but that's generally my philosophy with most things. :) 13:28:35 <Eddi|zuHause> central repo makes it more difficult to work on things that are not quite ready yet 13:28:53 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: svn does have branches :) 13:29:27 <andythenorth> Pikka: want to make one for me then? o_O 13:29:38 <Pikka> andythenorth: yes 13:29:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: but that creates a whole set of other problems :) 13:29:49 <andythenorth> that was not the answer I expected :P 13:29:57 <andythenorth> I thought you would tell me to boil my head 13:30:04 <Pikka> well, there you go :P 13:30:25 <Alberth> you say "yes" and he still doesn't believe it :p 13:30:35 <andythenorth> I don't want to play *without* GS any more 13:30:51 <Pikka> I did write a not-very-complex AI, how hard can a gs be? ;) 13:30:51 * Alberth ponders about IdleGS 13:31:07 * andythenorth ponders about cargo distribution, on a totally unrelated subject 13:31:36 * Pikka ponders about universalremote.grf 13:31:43 <andythenorth> indeed 13:31:57 <andythenorth> so do most of you just use cdist as a waybill dispatcher? 13:32:02 <andythenorth> i.e. handling the transfers etc 13:32:17 <Eddi|zuHause> what else would you use it for? 13:32:20 <Pikka> it's mostly useful for passengers tbh 13:32:45 <Alberth> mostly yes, as multi-cargo transport is a PITA in openttd 13:33:02 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waybill 13:33:11 <andythenorth> I am +1 to pax dist 13:33:21 <andythenorth> because I don't care where pax goes 13:33:53 <andythenorth> so I can wave hands and say "ok, YACD is gone, let's stop talking about YACD" 13:33:56 <andythenorth> but 13:34:04 <Alberth> pax dist is basically single cargo dist transport, which is quite doable 13:34:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i use it for passengers and primary cargos. it's not much use for secondary cargos (e.g. goods), as it does not enforce connecting as many destinations as possible 13:34:13 <andythenorth> cdist in current form goes beyond dispatching, and controls economy 13:34:21 <andythenorth> but it's not good enough to control the economy 13:34:30 <andythenorth> it's a pretty good dispatcher 13:35:14 <Eddi|zuHause> basically if you wanted to distribute goods through different parts of the city, you lose more than you gain 13:37:12 <andythenorth> I wanted to use it for freight in my single player NCG game 13:37:31 <andythenorth> it would have worked perfectly for the inbound primary cargo 13:37:38 <Pikka> andy: what's this GS of yourn supposed tae do? 13:37:42 <andythenorth> but supply distribution would have been borked 13:37:49 <Pikka> we should play SV and you can tell me how it differs from SV. :P 13:37:55 <andythenorth> indeed 13:38:03 <andythenorth> it's just SV, but multiple cities 13:38:05 <andythenorth> instead of one 13:38:21 <Pikka> eh 13:38:21 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=62556 13:38:24 <andythenorth> eh indeed 13:38:31 <andythenorth> it's not a ground breaking idea 13:38:34 <Pikka> can probably make it more interesting ;) 13:38:45 <Pikka> interesting / evil 13:38:48 <andythenorth> I tried having good ideas, but I had this one instead 13:39:07 <andythenorth> SV is good for single player, over 50 or 70 years 13:39:13 <Pikka> I tried having good ideas and came up with regearing... 13:39:17 <andythenorth> but the later part of the game is kind of monotonous 13:39:21 <andythenorth> just 'moar stuff' 13:39:36 <andythenorth> still fun 13:39:41 <andythenorth> but I'm not itching to play it again 13:40:08 <Pikka> soo 13:40:12 <Pikka> multiple cities, one cargo 13:40:15 <andythenorth> nah 13:40:16 <Pikka> or different cargo for each city? 13:40:19 <andythenorth> each one specialises 13:40:23 <Pikka> k 13:40:25 <andythenorth> so you cover more of the cargo types 13:40:33 <andythenorth> with FIRS Basic economies it would be fun 13:40:39 <andythenorth> there are about 18 or 19 cargos 13:40:51 <andythenorth> you'd need to transport the majority of them 13:40:57 <Pikka> can I give the GS a silly name? 13:41:00 <andythenorth> no 13:41:04 <andythenorth> it must be very sensible 13:41:14 <andythenorth> do you have a name? 13:41:35 <Pikka> and do some industry/cargo analysis so that it doesn't pick supply cargos? actually, I already started something like that for an AI. :) 13:41:44 <Pikka> no, I don't have a name 13:41:44 <andythenorth> yair 13:41:51 <andythenorth> supply cargos are not a good cargo goal 13:41:56 <andythenorth> also it should do disasters 13:42:10 <andythenorth> bandits have destroyed your bridge, etc 13:42:13 <andythenorth> the natives are restless 13:42:16 <andythenorth> that kind of thing 13:42:24 <andythenorth> praps not :P 13:42:31 <Pikka> plebs are needed 13:42:36 <Pikka> you have been eaten by a grue 13:43:09 <andythenorth> or a gruffalo 13:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause> "la resistance has sabotaged your rails" 13:43:31 <andythenorth> can GS do disasters? 13:43:41 <Eddi|zuHause> somewhat 13:43:43 <andythenorth> why do I turn disasters off? 13:43:47 <andythenorth> are they good? 13:43:51 <Eddi|zuHause> no 13:44:00 <Pikka> they are extremely uninteresting 13:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> the ufos always land at the same place 13:44:33 <Pikka> even if they didn't, disasters are basically "notice this and you need to rebuild two pieces of track" 13:44:45 <Pikka> "don't notice this and your network will be buggered until you do" 13:44:45 <andythenorth> or rebuild your factory 13:45:42 <Pikka> http://plebs.ytmnd.com/ gs can't play sound files, right? 13:45:55 <Eddi|zuHause> probably not :) 13:51:16 <andythenorth> feature request 13:55:13 *** TheStevens [~lachlan@14-200-254-27.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:02 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-124-102.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 14:01:57 *** blackhair [~blackhair@122.167.148.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:06:23 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:06:31 <andythenorth> can I start my RV set yet? 14:06:44 <andythenorth> or do I have to finish the bloody ships? 14:06:59 <Pikka> start your rv set 14:07:02 <Pikka> aren't the ships finished? :P 14:07:18 <andythenorth> they're not 14:09:06 <Pikka> o 14:09:13 <Pikka> you still have some to remove? ;) 14:09:24 <andythenorth> maybe 14:09:30 <andythenorth> I added some pointless river boats 14:09:32 <andythenorth> they could go 14:09:49 <Pikka> what's the road vehicle set going to be like? 14:10:41 <andythenorth> it will have road vehicles in it 14:10:44 <andythenorth> I know that much 14:10:51 <andythenorth> I should design it 14:10:53 <Pikka> awesome 14:10:58 <Eddi|zuHause> you first have to finish all sets before you can start a new one! 14:11:10 <andythenorth> oh :( 14:11:26 <Eddi|zuHause> not just your own set, but the sets of all other peopel 14:11:33 <andythenorth> might be a while 14:11:39 <andythenorth> anyway 90% of newgrfs are useless 14:11:45 <andythenorth> that pax engine thread says so 14:12:03 <andythenorth> what's wrong with default RVs anyway? 14:12:05 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe he looked at a sample of separator grfs :p 14:12:26 <Pikka> too slow, too low capacity, and not pretty enough 14:12:39 <Pikka> and too short a vehicle lifespan 14:12:48 <Pikka> to be precise :) 14:12:49 <andythenorth> and the upgrades are kind of meh 14:12:56 <andythenorth> also no cargo support 14:12:58 <Pikka> and no autorefit 14:12:58 <Pikka> yes 14:13:25 <andythenorth> I'll do up a list or something 14:13:33 <andythenorth> I might even have one already 14:13:42 <Pikka> if you're anything like me you've got three 14:13:47 <andythenorth> yeah 14:14:13 <Eddi|zuHause> what are the reasons why this rv set will end up better than the last one? 14:15:11 <andythenorth> I won't go off in a huff 14:15:26 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00df51.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:15:26 <andythenorth> and I don't care about balancing similar-but-different trucks any more 14:15:38 <andythenorth> and there's no attempt at putting in 'story' 14:15:43 <andythenorth> or imposing a type of gameplay 14:16:13 <andythenorth> if it turns out to plan, you basically get 'bus', 'truck', 'big truck' in any given year 14:16:23 <andythenorth> and then some specialist types 14:17:40 <andythenorth> oh I made a plan 14:17:42 <andythenorth> that's nice 14:17:45 * andythenorth bbl 14:21:00 <Eddi|zuHause> if you add a "meow" and "wetroad"... :p 14:22:31 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd 14:28:56 *** vanila [~vanilla@0001c6c8.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:35:14 *** blackhair [blackhair@117.192.38.89] has joined #openttd 14:37:37 <andythenorth> Pikka: so AV9 begins 1919? 14:37:44 <Pikka> yep 14:38:25 <Pikka> is that right? 14:39:37 <andythenorth> yeah 14:39:39 <andythenorth> think so 14:40:00 <andythenorth> I am going to design RVs on the assumption that I only us AV9 for planes 14:40:20 <andythenorth> they're not very related, but slightly 14:40:28 <Pikka> fwiw 14:40:31 <andythenorth> especially for supply distribution 14:40:47 <Pikka> my road vehicle plan has the first bus in 1919 and the first truck in 1926 14:41:12 <andythenorth> mine has the first decent truck in 1915 currently 14:41:17 <Pikka> hmm 14:41:19 <andythenorth> but that might change 14:41:25 <Pikka> well 14:41:30 <andythenorth> basically I don't do FIRS supplies without planes 14:41:32 <andythenorth> and trucks 14:41:37 <Pikka> ho ho 14:41:51 <Pikka> well, you know 14:42:04 <Pikka> if people want trucks and planes they should be starting in 1930 or 1950 or later 14:42:07 *** Zuu [~Zuu@sip.sdrf.se] has joined #openttd 14:42:09 <andythenorth> yair 14:42:13 <andythenorth> when does your train set start? 14:42:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd kinda like a tram set that starts in 1880 or so 14:42:29 <Pikka> canonically in 1900 14:42:31 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: HEQS? o_O 14:42:34 <andythenorth> :P 14:42:42 <Pikka> I think the first two locos are 1896 and 1897 14:42:45 <Eddi|zuHause> HEQS is not a tram set :p 14:42:55 <andythenorth> oh yes, you transport pax :P 14:43:07 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: all my sets are pegged to around 1870 or so 14:43:16 <andythenorth> and I'm open to pax trams 14:43:22 <Pikka> hmm 14:43:29 <Pikka> should I have pax (/any) trams? 14:43:37 <Pikka> trams are a bit silly 14:43:48 <Pikka> needs more properroadtypes 14:43:57 <Eddi|zuHause> they're better than horse carriages 14:44:09 <andythenorth> I like trams, ish 14:44:17 <Pikka> they're not better than trains, though :P 14:44:34 <Eddi|zuHause> they are, if you don't want to destroy half the town :p 14:45:02 <Eddi|zuHause> also, it's easier to scale up the capacity of the link 14:45:04 <andythenorth> metro :P 14:45:27 <andythenorth> metro on a way ring is buggy btw 14:45:34 <Pikka> "scale up the capacity of the link" means "spam road vehicles", right? 14:45:37 <andythenorth> I have to add orders for every station, or the trains get lost :P 14:45:46 <Eddi|zuHause> yes-ish :) 14:45:49 <andythenorth> Pikka: what else could it mean? :) 14:46:41 <Pikka> early supply delivery truck, you reckon 14:47:13 <Flygon> It just occoured to me I literally gridlocked OpenTTD 14:47:27 <Flygon> The road simulation is too accurate :B 14:47:41 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%204.%20Aug%201953_3.png 14:49:47 <Eddi|zuHause> see how the train links are heavily overloaded while the tram links can actually manage? 14:52:22 <Flygon> I tend to have the opposite issue. My Trams are always jammed more than the Trains 14:52:27 <Flygon> At least, until the 1960s 14:52:31 <Flygon> For some reason 14:53:34 <Eddi|zuHause> well later it looked like this: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%2025.%20Jul%201988.png (unfortunately without station windows) 15:00:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:03:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 15:03:43 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you need unrealistic capacity trams 15:03:58 <andythenorth> this whole 'low capacity' thing works for trains, but is bad when applied to other types 15:04:26 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well the GermanRV trams do have higher capacity than the default vehicles 15:04:44 <Eddi|zuHause> also, in CETS i offer higher capacity commuter trains 15:04:50 * Pikka supposes I should add trams... 15:04:52 <andythenorth> it's the way forward 15:04:56 <andythenorth> to both points :P 15:05:21 <Eddi|zuHause> there are a few capacity oddities in GermanRV, though 15:05:55 <andythenorth> low or high? 15:11:16 <andythenorth> the thing is 15:11:29 <andythenorth> vehicles that have 10t capacity are totally pointless 15:11:38 <andythenorth> when their speed is 18mph that's offensive too 15:11:47 <Pikka> but horsesssssss 15:12:50 <Pikka> I added a 1910 truck, 20mph, 15t capacity, is that acceptabubble? considering it's purely for short supply links 15:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's not the capacity per se, but the length variation. some vehicles have a different length scale without adjusting the capacity 15:13:27 *** scrollback1 [~scrollbac@scrollback.io] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:17 <andythenorth> Pikka: I dunno, I have something about the same 15:14:21 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/attachment.php?aid=4501 15:14:25 <andythenorth> I look at it and think I'll never use it 15:14:31 <andythenorth> Antonov problem 15:14:50 <andythenorth> build a train 15:14:54 <andythenorth> or a NG train 15:14:56 <Pikka> antonov is silly 15:14:59 <andythenorth> or even - shock - a canal 15:15:06 <andythenorth> nothing wrong with the Antonov 15:15:13 <andythenorth> it's just got no purpose 15:15:21 <Eddi|zuHause> those are 4 trams from roughly the same era, and they have vastly different capacity per vehicle length 15:15:32 <andythenorth> why don't we use canals more before 1910 or so? 15:15:49 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: because canals are way too expensive at that time 15:15:58 <andythenorth> I have a cost adjustment built in 15:16:07 <Pikka> also, "canals" 15:16:14 <andythenorth> yeah that 15:16:31 <andythenorth> they have square corners 15:16:33 <andythenorth> it's really a blocker 15:16:45 <Pikka> no distinction between foxton locks and suez 15:17:02 * Pikka still thinks small industrial canals should be a roadtype :D 15:17:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i had this idea once that ships came in different width (1/2, 1, 2) and they pass each other like road vehicles 15:18:23 <andythenorth> it's a nice idea 15:18:28 <Eddi|zuHause> so on a 1 tile wide river/canal you can have 1/2 width ships in both directions, or 1 width ships in one direction 15:18:42 <andythenorth> Pikka: haven't you been to England? All our locks can handle container ships 15:18:58 <andythenorth> dunno about your upside down locks 15:19:10 <Eddi|zuHause> so you need 4 tile wide canals to run the huge ocean ships 15:20:06 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: but you didn't implement it, right? :D 15:20:15 <Eddi|zuHause> no :) 15:20:51 <Eddi|zuHause> part of the idea was that buoys automatically create waterways between them at the appropriate width 15:21:13 <Eddi|zuHause> other water tiles are not traversable by ships 15:24:11 *** Speedy` [~speedy@the.wrong.domain.name] has joined #openttd 15:24:14 <andythenorth> nice, but I am -1 to that one :) 15:24:26 *** Speedy` is now known as Speedy 15:25:14 <andythenorth> 'something must be done' about canals and stuff 15:25:16 <andythenorth> dunno what 15:25:25 <andythenorth> I could give river boats a big cost advantage 15:25:31 <andythenorth> does anyone care about costs though? 15:25:52 <Pikka> I don't think anything needs to be done about canals and stuff 15:26:20 <andythenorth> do ever use rivers? 15:26:28 <Pikka> nein 15:26:49 <Pikka> they're like antonovs and horsewagons. they don't really fit into the way TTD works. 15:27:46 <andythenorth> nope 15:28:22 <andythenorth> also ugly 15:28:36 <Pikka> I don't even build canals for big ships - I lower the land to sea level, like one used to 15:28:49 <Pikka> looks better, easier to build bridges over 15:28:49 *** Zuu [~Zuu@sip.sdrf.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:51 <Pikka> and usually cheaper 15:29:47 <andythenorth> yup 15:29:53 <andythenorth> moi aussi 15:29:59 <andythenorth> also can build docks on it 15:30:07 <Pikka> si 15:30:14 <andythenorth> can't build docks on canals and rivers 15:30:19 <andythenorth> stupid transport type 15:30:35 <andythenorth> want some trains? build a station 15:30:41 <andythenorth> want some planes? build airport 15:30:46 <andythenorth> want some trucks? build RV stop 15:30:51 <andythenorth> want river boats? 15:31:09 <andythenorth> demolish some buildings, raise some land, and build 9 tiles of water so they don't get stuck 15:31:15 <andythenorth> then build an ugly dock 15:31:17 <Pikka> like I said 15:31:22 <Pikka> would make a good roadtype ;) 15:31:26 <andythenorth> hmm 15:31:30 <andythenorth> also routing is broken for ships 15:31:49 <andythenorth> may I delete the river boats from Squid? o_O 15:31:56 <andythenorth> having established they are totally lame 15:32:12 <andythenorth> clarification: routing is broken for ships on canals and rivers 15:32:30 <Pikka> imo, yes 15:32:52 <Pikka> did I do 10cc shipstable yet? I don't think I did... 15:33:08 <Pikka> good ol' spreadsheet newgrfs :) 15:35:39 <andythenorth> lovely 15:35:44 <andythenorth> put it on bananas 15:35:49 <andythenorth> call it 'super big ships 2' 15:35:53 <andythenorth> get 1m downloads 15:35:59 <Pikka> yes 15:36:51 <Pikka> nearly 300 downloads of av9.81 15:36:54 <Pikka> who are these people? 15:40:25 <andythenorth> bots 15:40:27 <andythenorth> and andythenorth 15:41:15 <andythenorth> Pikka: can you make your AI build canals? 15:41:17 <andythenorth> o_O 15:41:30 <Pikka> I don't see why not 15:41:36 <Pikka> but why would it? 15:56:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: my GRF is purely spreadsheet :) 15:56:56 <Eddi|zuHause> write entry in table, press compile, booom GRF. 15:57:08 <frosch123> we need more educational grfs 15:57:22 <frosch123> like scrabble train composition 15:57:27 <frosch123> or math equations 15:59:14 <Pikka> Eddi: great, as long as you don't want graphics. :) 15:59:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i have "crude" graphics as well :) 16:00:25 <frosch123> maybe the capacity should equal the unit number of the front engine 16:01:36 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: so you build 100 cheap dummy trains that you leave in depot before you can build useful ones? 16:02:06 <frosch123> hmm, true, we need gs that penalizes stopped trains 16:03:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 16:04:13 *** blackhair [blackhair@117.192.38.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:09:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 16:10:06 <andythenorth> Pikka: your AI should build canals so I don't have to :P 16:11:24 <frosch123> hmm, good point... why are there about 3 road network ais, but no canal network ais? 16:14:20 <andythenorth> they would find it impossible to build docks :P 16:14:33 * andythenorth tried to patch flat docks 16:14:44 <andythenorth> I successfully managed to create an assert 16:14:55 <frosch123> post it in the recent ttdp thread :p 16:15:13 <andythenorth> there's a thread? :o 16:15:45 <frosch123> yet another does-ottd-have-all-ttdp-features-thread 16:15:58 <frosch123> but noone mentioned flat docks 16:16:36 <andythenorth> are they in ttdp? 16:16:45 <frosch123> kind of 16:16:52 <frosch123> you do not need the terraforming 16:16:59 <frosch123> but you still need wide canals to not block them 16:17:33 <andythenorth> they should be 1 or 2 tiles at the waterside 16:17:33 <frosch123> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=224416#p224416 16:17:45 * andythenorth waits for Eddi|zuHause to mention state machines :) 16:17:55 <michi_cc> They are in the NewGRF specs, but I have yet to see a NewGRF implementing any. This might be an advantage though, if there is nothing to be compatible with, the hypothetical OTTD flat docks could use the water dock tile as the stopping position. 16:18:14 * andythenorth wonders about patching train stations so that ships see them 16:18:38 <andythenorth> or patching ships to look for train stations :P 16:19:36 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d110-32-24-29.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:20:25 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d110-32-24-29.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 16:20:36 <andythenorth> hi Pikka 16:20:39 <andythenorth> been a while 16:24:21 <Pikka> how rare 16:24:36 <Pikka> also new(air)ports 16:25:18 <andythenorth> also crates and tons 16:25:21 <andythenorth> and refitting 16:25:38 <andythenorth> funny numbers 16:27:47 <Pikka> eh 16:28:00 <Pikka> they're just units, crates, tons, whatever :P 16:30:21 <andythenorth> sometimes they are 50% less than you expected :P 16:30:31 <Pikka> like when? 16:30:58 <andythenorth> somewhere in HEQS 16:31:00 <andythenorth> and in eGRVTS 16:31:07 <andythenorth> it's that old diagram about refitting 16:31:10 <Pikka> one should always explicitly return a capacity when refitting, imo... not rely on the silly default behaviour 16:31:18 <andythenorth> I think I just didn't fix it in HEQS 16:32:27 <andythenorth> is a 20t truck worth having? 16:32:38 <andythenorth> maybe 30t is the smallest to bother with 16:33:02 <Pikka> depends 16:33:14 <Pikka> do you want people using trucks to transport everything 16:33:17 <andythenorth> no 16:33:26 <andythenorth> not that I care 16:33:31 <Pikka> probably shouldn't make them too useful then ;) 16:33:33 <andythenorth> but I might not bother with 20t 16:33:52 <andythenorth> I did once consider adding 'convoys' 16:33:57 <andythenorth> but it got shot down 16:37:19 <Pikka> psh 16:38:45 <andythenorth> psh good, or psh bad? 16:39:02 <Pikka> psh getting shot down, you can do what you like :P 16:39:16 <Pikka> I don't think I'm even doing articulated rvs though, except perhaps trams 16:39:23 <andythenorth> have you not heard of the court of public opinion? :P 16:39:26 <andythenorth> oh that's nice 16:39:34 <andythenorth> I think I'm mostly only doing articulated :) 16:39:47 <andythenorth> compare and contrast 16:39:50 <Pikka> yep :) 16:40:03 <Pikka> so 16:40:12 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-168-244-115.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 16:40:25 <Pikka> silicon andy gamescript and universal remote newgrf 16:40:28 <Pikka> and trains 16:40:36 <andythenorth> and av9 16:40:43 <Pikka> av9 is done 16:40:46 <Pikka> except the graphics :) 16:40:49 <andythenorth> so is UK Houses thing 16:40:55 <andythenorth> I tried it until 2010 or so 16:40:57 <andythenorth> looks nice 16:41:07 <Pikka> which? the TaI? 16:41:16 <andythenorth> yair 16:41:19 <Pikka> eh 16:41:27 <Pikka> could be better coded 16:41:42 <andythenorth> I don't look at that bit 16:41:55 <andythenorth> "houses: solved" as far as I am concerned 16:41:57 <andythenorth> that one's done 16:42:01 <Pikka> well 16:42:04 <Pikka> could be better graphics too 16:42:09 <Pikka> but I'll get back to that :P 16:42:45 <andythenorth> nah it's finished 16:42:57 <andythenorth> unless you 32 whatsit it 16:43:18 <Pikka> yes 16:43:19 <Pikka> that 16:43:40 <andythenorth> also trams 16:43:55 <andythenorth> so what is point of small slow truck if freight trams also? 16:44:13 <Pikka> true 16:44:16 <Pikka> perhaps 16:44:21 <Pikka> but I don't freight trams 16:44:22 <andythenorth> even farms with trams is not wrong 16:44:27 * andythenorth trams freight 16:44:29 <Pikka> you can freight trams 16:44:40 <andythenorth> I'll freight trams 16:44:45 <andythenorth> you do not freight trams 16:44:48 <Pikka> you will 16:44:49 <Pikka> isn't it 16:44:57 <andythenorth> couldn't be clearer 16:45:18 <andythenorth> my RV set: now with fewer vehicles 16:45:21 <andythenorth> winnar is us 16:45:35 <Pikka> yes 16:45:58 <andythenorth> also 16:46:02 <andythenorth> trams are types 16:46:13 <andythenorth> none of this 'refit any of the wagons to different body types' crap 16:46:29 * andythenorth has made decision 16:46:35 <andythenorth> public opinion be damned 16:46:36 <Pikka> huzzah! 16:46:44 <andythenorth> livestock tram! 16:46:53 <andythenorth> dump truck tram! 16:46:58 <andythenorth> tanker tram! 16:47:25 <andythenorth> maybe even capacity refits can go to hell? 16:47:30 <andythenorth> they are very nice... 16:47:33 <andythenorth> ...in HEQS 16:47:48 <Pikka> what about autorefittings 16:47:57 <andythenorth> autorefittings is ok 16:48:04 <andythenorth> ah capacity refittings breaks autorefittings 16:48:08 <andythenorth> so no capacity refittings 16:51:59 <frosch123> they do not 16:52:48 <andythenorth> capacity != capacity ;) 16:52:53 <andythenorth> bad terminology 16:53:05 <andythenorth> subtype refits that change length breaks autorefittings 16:53:17 <andythenorth> "may not change length in stations" 16:54:09 <frosch123> as long as you ahve the same length options for each cargo, there is no issue 16:54:16 <frosch123> autorefit picks the same cargo subtype 16:54:52 <frosch123> all ordered refits do that 16:56:05 <andythenorth> hmm 16:56:13 <andythenorth> that changed since I removed autorefit from HEQS trams 16:56:18 <andythenorth> improvements :) 16:56:33 *** Knogle [~knogle@x1-6-28-c6-8e-97-e8-d2.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:58:04 *** Knogle [~knogle@x1-6-28-c6-8e-97-e8-d2.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 17:05:54 <frosch123> i thought i tested that specifically with firs :p 17:09:47 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.0.224] has joined #openttd 17:23:01 *** welshdragon [~Moi@cpc1-oxfd20-2-0-cust78.4-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 17:23:40 *** rubenwardy [~rubenward@host86-150-143-233.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:29:21 *** TheDude [~Miranda@ip-89-176-28-82.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: bye] 17:36:48 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: tram speeds for 1905 or so? 30mph or 35mph? 17:37:43 <Eddi|zuHause> something around 30-40km/h? tram speeds are "unrealistic" anyway 17:38:07 <Eddi|zuHause> inner city trams go something like 20km/h 17:38:20 <andythenorth> I prefer unrealistic :) 17:38:34 <andythenorth> 30mph is plenty 17:38:39 <frosch123> make it half the speed of a freight train in iron horse? 17:38:53 <frosch123> at any time during a game 17:39:23 <frosch123> you need some corporate branding :p 17:41:32 <andythenorth> do I have to provide trucks after 1995? :P 17:41:37 <andythenorth> my games always finish by 200x 17:42:00 <frosch123> v raged recently about egrvts not having any vehicles after 2030 or so 17:42:05 <frosch123> can you deal with a raging v? 17:42:15 <andythenorth> yeah 17:42:26 <andythenorth> so just 6 RVs for 'general freight' 17:42:29 <frosch123> i mean if he plays with rv for once :p 17:42:30 <andythenorth> covers 1870-1995 17:42:48 <frosch123> ah, you are making boring sets again 17:42:56 <andythenorth> hold your horses :P 17:43:03 <andythenorth> I haven't added in the hoverbus yet 17:43:48 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:43:51 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:43:53 <andythenorth> if you would get on and do roadtypes, I could add electric trucks 17:44:04 <andythenorth> volvo and such are trialling them on overhead catenary again 17:44:26 <andythenorth> and embedded power rail 17:45:46 <Pikka> I don't think he raged because no new ones were introduced 17:45:53 <Pikka> I think he raged because the last vehicles expired :P 17:46:28 <andythenorth> there is nowhere to go once I've got to 1995 17:46:33 <andythenorth> I don't want bigger trucks, or faster 17:46:46 <andythenorth> maybe a bit more power, but hardly worth it 17:46:50 <andythenorth> flying trucks...maybe 17:47:01 <Pikka> ohhh 17:47:07 <Pikka> I forgot fishing boats, "whoops" 17:47:20 <andythenorth> oopsie 17:47:29 <andythenorth> flying fishing boats? 17:47:37 <Pikka> I guess I need one or two of those, for firs porpoises 17:47:39 <Pikka> yes 17:47:44 <Pikka> for catching flying fish 17:47:49 <andythenorth> when is seaplanes done? 17:48:00 <Pikka> oh, years and years ago 17:48:08 <andythenorth> hoverfish? 17:48:48 <andythenorth> hmm 17:48:54 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> do I have to provide trucks after 1995? :P <-- yes :) 17:49:05 <andythenorth> I could do Longer Heavier Vehicles - 2x capacity, 2 trailers 17:49:12 <andythenorth> or autonomous trucks which travel in trains 17:49:24 <andythenorth> or...swarm of quadcopters? Replacing trucks... 17:49:31 <Eddi|zuHause> or just ones that are 30% larger and 30% faster 17:50:11 <Eddi|zuHause> dimensional compressor trucks, fit more stuff into the same volume 17:50:18 <andythenorth> fusion powered 17:51:18 <frosch123> yeah, why make it big on the outside, if you need the space inside 17:51:28 <Eddi|zuHause> there was something about the ITER recently, where they wanted to make the concrete base plate only half as thick, for money reasons, and the (french) inspector said it would make it totally unsafe 17:57:04 *** jpierre03 [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:43 *** jpierre03 [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has joined #openttd 18:03:35 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I've added some 20xx truck, just for you :P 18:04:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i really doubt i will ever actually use them :p 18:04:35 <andythenorth> I slightly doubt I'll code them or draw them :P 18:06:05 <andythenorth> so when are we getting trolley trucks? 18:06:54 <andythenorth> http://hutnyak.com/ItalianTrolley.html 18:08:04 <andythenorth> http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2009/07/trolleytrucks-trolleybuses-cargotrams.html 18:10:07 <andythenorth> http://trolleytruck.eu 18:11:17 * andythenorth wonders about a varact 2 that can detect if a non-tram RV is on a tile that also has tram 18:11:23 <andythenorth> and adjust power accordingly 18:11:29 <andythenorth> haxor 18:20:06 *** ChickeNES [~ChickeNES@c-50-148-73-101.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzzâŠ] 18:20:30 <Eddi|zuHause> not without "roadtypes" 18:22:27 <andythenorth> ha ha 18:22:32 * andythenorth invents a farm tram 18:22:35 <andythenorth> it's even realistic 18:23:46 <andythenorth> livestock wagons, milk can go in them in churns 18:23:51 <andythenorth> haul supplies on the way back 18:23:55 <andythenorth> winning 18:24:05 <Pikka> si 18:24:29 <Phreeze> never seen in reality ;) 18:24:35 <andythenorth> orly? 18:24:50 <andythenorth> are you familiar with black swans? o_O 18:25:43 <Phreeze> nay 18:27:54 <frosch123> are they relatives to unicorns? 18:28:15 <Pikka> I should ask them 18:28:26 <Pikka> there's some that hang around the lagoon up at sandgate... 18:30:40 <andythenorth> is problem 18:30:45 <andythenorth> claimings about reality 18:30:49 <andythenorth> requires seen all reality 18:30:52 <andythenorth> *all* 18:30:55 <andythenorth> and also not drunk 18:31:30 *** vanila [~vanilla@0001c6c8.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:35:31 <andythenorth> vehicle set can't trigger news messages? 18:35:54 <andythenorth> "new regulations: milk must be moved by tanker for hyienic' 18:36:12 *** jpierre03 [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:36:35 <Pikka> too many realisms by half 18:39:22 <andythenorth> half as many instead? 18:39:29 <Pikka> easily 18:41:25 <andythenorth> herp 18:45:05 <Kjetil> "Election news: Communist elected. All private property seized" 18:46:02 <andythenorth> with a farm trams, l only need 3 livestock trucks 18:46:06 <andythenorth> or can I just have 2? 18:46:18 <Pikka> yes 18:46:37 <andythenorth> livestock truck, better livestock truck 18:46:48 <andythenorth> after about 1945 and 1978 or something 18:48:09 <Kjetil> "Animal activists seizes power: Livestock production halts" 18:48:58 <frosch123> why would animal acivits kill 90% of land mammals? 18:49:11 <frosch123> http://www.xkcd.com/1338/ 18:49:45 <Kjetil> because they are treehuggers 18:50:55 <andythenorth> does that chart include ants? 18:51:07 <Pikka> ants, the well-known mammal 18:51:13 <frosch123> exactly :) 18:51:29 <frosch123> i have a small ant farm, who i milk every day 18:51:30 <andythenorth> I learn something every day 18:51:42 <andythenorth> ants are not mammals? :O 18:52:02 <Pikka> they are not! 18:52:07 <Pikka> nor are black swans 18:52:45 <andythenorth> ant tram 18:52:53 <frosch123> anyway, i am kind of disappointed that water mammals are not included in that chart 18:52:57 <Pikka> what is this 18:52:59 <Pikka> a tram for ants? 18:53:18 <frosch123> are hippos land mammals? 18:53:33 *** jpierre03 [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has joined #openttd 18:54:03 <Pikka> probably 19:00:09 <andythenorth> ant farm? 19:00:11 <andythenorth> ant economy? 19:00:30 <frosch123> widelands has spider farms 19:04:07 *** glx is now known as Guest2625 19:04:07 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:04:10 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 19:05:24 <andythenorth> tankers in IH autorefit between alcohol, oil, rubber, petrol, fertiliser etc 19:05:27 <andythenorth> is that good? 19:05:32 <Pikka> yes 19:05:34 <andythenorth> ok 19:05:43 <andythenorth> should I make it cost? 19:05:44 <Pikka> if people complain that it's unrealistic, tell them "don't do it then" 19:05:46 <frosch123> alcohol and feriliser? sounds about right 19:05:47 <Pikka> no you should not 19:05:55 <andythenorth> in that case I have nothing to change 19:05:57 <andythenorth> winner 19:09:00 <Pikka> hm 19:09:03 <Pikka> 29 ships 19:09:31 <Pikka> 26, too 19:09:37 <Pikka> but rather, 15 ships 19:09:50 <Pikka> with 26 generational graphics 19:10:10 *** Guest2625 [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:10:30 <Pikka> nothing expires, new ships are always (usually) larger, the older smaller ships change sprites from steam -> diesel etc 19:11:15 <Pikka> keeps the buy menu relatively uncluttered, while also giving a range of ship sizes 19:12:01 <frosch123> forced not playing with breakdowns though 19:12:10 <Pikka> why? 19:12:33 <Pikka> because of silly random range of maximum reliability? 19:12:51 <frosch123> that's the only purpose of breakdowns 19:13:25 <Pikka> I don't think even people who play with breakdowns on pay much attention to that 19:13:35 <frosch123> i once tried nars2 or something, and the 0-4-0 or however it was called was useless for the whole game 19:13:52 <frosch123> you just cannot build an engine with 70% reliability 19:14:10 <frosch123> usually you pick an older engine of the same class instead 19:14:20 <frosch123> but that fails for the changing-stats vehicles 19:14:34 <Pikka> changing-stats vehicles is always a bad idea 19:14:41 <Pikka> for a whole host of reasons 19:15:05 <frosch123> oh, maybe i misunderstood you there 19:15:12 <frosch123> you only want to change sprites, not stats 19:15:16 <Pikka> yes 19:15:41 <Pikka> but your point is still valid because there won't be "an older engine of the same class" 19:15:54 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> "new regulations: milk must be moved by tanker for hyienic' <-- i always wanted to have that, to do like "speed limit for freight trains has been increased from 35 km/h to 55km/h" 19:16:15 <Eddi|zuHause> something that can be done in NewGRFs, but isn't really obvious to the user 19:16:23 <frosch123> well, maybe with ships you have more variety 19:16:38 <Pikka> GS should be able to impose speed limits on vehicles 19:16:41 <frosch123> but with only 5 train engines (or so) it was definitely an issue 19:16:53 <Pikka> or arbitrarily destroy vehicles :D 19:17:00 <Pikka> ehhhhhhh... 5 train engines 19:17:04 <Pikka> have you seen av9? lol 19:17:34 <frosch123> i did not build any planes in the last game 19:17:47 <frosch123> i saw only stratocruisers flying around 19:17:53 <Pikka> there aren't a whole lot of vehicle choices... 19:18:42 <Pikka> perhaps you should quietly narrow down the range of maximum reliability? ;) or not, because really, who plays with breakdowns on normal? 19:18:47 <frosch123> the silly thing with aircraft was always that small aircraft are better because the commuter airport is just so much better :p 19:18:57 <Pikka> yes 19:19:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: have you introduced a parameter to scale ranges up for larger maps in av9? 19:19:27 <Pikka> no, I have not 19:19:28 <andythenorth> cumooooter airport is best one 19:19:34 <andythenorth> apart from helistation 19:19:34 <Pikka> I have removed ranges altogether 19:20:04 <Eddi|zuHause> aww... 19:20:09 <frosch123> yet another point for more patchpacks :) 19:20:16 <frosch123> trunk inclusion is overrated 19:20:28 <frosch123> people just stop using features 19:20:36 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: you mean like a "more airports" patchpack? 19:21:09 <Eddi|zuHause> because RichK67 did have those :) 19:21:24 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: no, i mean that ottd accumulates features with are considered awesome when added, but over time become unused 19:21:51 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: like combo signals? 19:22:08 <frosch123> like noise levels, infra cost, aircraft range, autorefit, timetables, vehicle groups, autoreplace, ... 19:22:33 <frosch123> hmm, i guess autoreplace is still valid if i would play longer lasting games :p 19:22:44 <Alberth> :) 19:22:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i always use autoreplace differently than everyone else 19:23:28 <Eddi|zuHause> like i probably am the only person who uses the "upgrade vehicles in this depot" button :) 19:23:36 <andythenorth> no 19:23:39 <andythenorth> I use it too 19:23:46 <andythenorth> but only when autoreplace is failing 19:23:50 <frosch123> i used to use it as well,, though i cannot remember what for 19:23:57 <andythenorth> because autoreplace doesn't always work? 19:23:59 <Eddi|zuHause> pause, set rule, click upgrade, remove rule, unpause 19:24:18 <frosch123> maybe just for stopped vehicles or something 19:24:23 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:30 <andythenorth> that button's tool tip should be 'autoreplace is buggy, use this when it fails' 19:24:32 <Pikka> it does always work, andy :P 19:24:42 <andythenorth> but I have never found why it fails, so I've never been able to report it 19:24:49 <andythenorth> probably just some setting I have wrong 19:24:54 <Pikka> you can autoreplace within groups only 19:25:05 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 19:25:08 <Pikka> you're probably setting autoreplace for a group thinking you're doing it globally ;) 19:25:11 <andythenorth> nah 19:25:19 <andythenorth> I use group autoreplace all the time 19:25:23 <Pikka> k 19:25:26 <andythenorth> autoreplace without groups would be a crime 19:25:36 <Pikka> perhaps :o 19:25:38 <andythenorth> what else did frosch mention 19:25:57 <andythenorth> timetables - need those because we don't have partial load, and there seems to be an aversion to even discussing it 19:26:25 <frosch123> yes,i also use timetables to set loading times 19:26:27 <andythenorth> "no you may not have partial load, you must use some fricking insane conditional order routing, involving looping trains through the station multiple times" 19:26:39 <frosch123> they are actually nice for that, but noone seems to know about that usage 19:26:40 <Pikka> most of the things frosch mentioned I see used all the time 19:26:54 <Pikka> but aircraft range just isn't good for gameplay. :) 19:26:54 <andythenorth> "you may not have a callback, you must run a loop and poll for state constantly" 19:27:12 <andythenorth> noise levels aren't stupid 19:27:19 <Pikka> I use noise levels 19:27:24 <andythenorth> the inability to ignore them in settings is stupid though :P 19:27:58 <andythenorth> is aircraft range a thing? I wouldn't notice 19:28:05 <andythenorth> is it used in AV8? 19:28:18 <Pikka> yes, it is used in av8 19:28:23 <andythenorth> I never run into it 19:28:32 <andythenorth> if I did, I'd just build a waypoint airport 19:28:37 <andythenorth> simples 19:28:40 <Pikka> quite 19:28:41 *** rubenwardy [~rubenward@host86-150-143-233.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: You may notice this notice is not worth noticing] 19:28:50 <andythenorth> just more kibbling 19:29:03 <andythenorth> non-interesting choices 19:29:03 <Pikka> infrastructure costs are a good idea but some of the defaults are a bit wacky 19:29:07 <Eddi|zuHause> timetables are just a pain to set up and coordinate 19:29:11 <Pikka> particularly airports :) 19:29:21 <andythenorth> infra costs are not useful in MP GS challenges 19:29:32 <andythenorth> and I don't play single player any more much, so I didn't notice them 19:29:59 <andythenorth> the solution to 'too much money' is 'challenge based gameplay' 19:30:03 <Pikka> "people make too much money flying passengers between opposite sides of the map, let's add a cost that makes flying passengers between the opposite sides of the map the only economical strategy" ;) 19:30:13 <andythenorth> if adding more costs solved this stuff, we'd have fixed it in newgrf ages ago 19:30:17 <Pikka> yes 19:30:18 <andythenorth> game balancing is severely over-rated 19:30:23 <Eddi|zuHause> airports are a giant pain because you can't define the time spent in the waiting loop 19:30:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so you can't coordinate landing/takeoff order 19:30:41 <andythenorth> IH has running costs of /year for engines, yet the NCG game with it was fun 19:30:56 <Pikka> oui 19:31:18 <andythenorth> shall I have rouge or blanc? 19:31:26 <Pikka> why not both? 19:31:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and letting the planes figure it out themselves never works properly 19:31:30 <Pikka> where's mine? 19:31:52 <Pikka> eddi: what we need is some kind of, I don't know... 19:32:03 <Pikka> newgrf defined airports with smart holding patterns? :) 19:32:05 <andythenorth> Pikka: I have pink too 19:32:10 <Eddi|zuHause> you get 5 planes landing, then they block each other on the airport, then you get 5 planes taking off, then the airport is empty, but already 5 planes looping 19:32:19 <andythenorth> moar airports? 19:32:33 <Pikka> moar airprots 19:32:45 <Pikka> but not richk's half-baked hard-coded things 19:32:53 <Eddi|zuHause> no, more like "airport arrival/departure timetables" 19:33:22 <Eddi|zuHause> who was that dude with the airport-design minigame? 19:33:42 <andythenorth> frosch123: I conclude most of those features are useful 19:33:51 <andythenorth> I even hate autorefit less these days :P 19:34:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that place has been taken over by cargodist? :p 19:34:15 <andythenorth> somewhat 19:34:52 <andythenorth> it's just frustrating sometimes 19:35:03 <andythenorth> so much attention paid to not changing newgrf spec 19:35:24 <andythenorth> but massive adjustments to gameplay pop up out of the blue 19:35:35 <andythenorth> causing nearly-done newgrfs to be redone from scratch :P 19:35:40 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=38709&hilit=airport+game 19:36:11 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that. 19:36:36 <andythenorth> incidentally we are way too scared of breaking newgrfs 19:36:42 <andythenorth> they're mostly rubbish anyway :P 19:36:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what do you mean? loads of grf spec changes happen 19:37:09 <Eddi|zuHause> entire 1.2 openttd was pure newgrf spec revolt 19:37:21 <andythenorth> and loads don't 19:38:33 <andythenorth> hmm 19:38:35 <andythenorth> can't name any :P 19:38:41 <Pikka> what needs changing in the spec, though? 19:38:49 <Pikka> nothing broken about newgrf... 19:38:54 *** Lacsap [~Lacsap@modemcable157.188-82-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 19:38:57 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r26394 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2014-03-08 19:38:50 UTC) 19:38:58 <DorpsGek> -Fix[FS#5939]: Don't explain "symmetric" cargodist mode when the setting does not allow it. 19:39:20 <andythenorth> stations at water industries? 19:39:33 <andythenorth> eh, not much else 19:39:56 * andythenorth back to trucks 19:40:11 <frosch123> Pikka: the problem is that was i was not able to explain https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VehicleRefitting#Misc._vehicle_flag_5_.27use_of_capacity_multiplier_for_default_cargo.27_set to andy 19:40:34 *** ChickeNES [~ChickeNES@128.135.100.108] has joined #openttd 19:41:38 <Pikka> hm 19:41:44 <Pikka> I can explain it in four words 19:41:48 <Pikka> "don't set that bit" :D 19:42:06 <frosch123> you should rather explain it as "always set that bit" 19:42:09 <frosch123> :p 19:42:22 <andythenorth> is that the thing where nml is not doing the right thing? 19:42:27 * andythenorth can't remember 19:42:38 <frosch123> yes, nml does not support it 19:42:59 <Pikka> oh 19:43:05 <frosch123> it is consistent, but complicated :p 19:43:26 <Pikka> well 19:43:36 <Pikka> nml not doing the right thing is hardly newgrf's fault ;) 19:44:07 <frosch123> alternative solution would have been to remove callback 15 or 36 for capacity :p 19:44:18 <andythenorth> every time this comes up, my head aches :) 19:44:50 <frosch123> drink more coffee 19:45:37 <Pikka> or more plonk 19:46:18 <Pikka> okay, maybe you do set that bit, if you have a weird default cargo 19:46:18 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 19:47:00 <frosch123> just make a industry grf which does not use cargo id 1 :p 19:47:41 <Pikka> perhaps 19:48:17 <Pikka> but once you're past that, you should be using the refitted capacity callback, so the default multipliers, and so 2/3rds of that chart, should be irrelevent. 19:48:32 *** Lacsap [~Lacsap@modemcable157.188-82-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:48:45 <frosch123> see, i recommend the reverse 19:49:07 <frosch123> capacity multipliers are a good thing and subject of the industry grf 19:49:46 *** Lacsap [~Lacsap@modemcable157.188-82-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 19:50:41 <Pikka> well, the default multipliers are a bit silly. and not consistent with the default vehicles. 19:51:12 <Pikka> a train passenger wagon doesn't carry 4 times as many units as a train coal wagon. 19:51:57 <Xaroth|Work> depends if it's american or not 19:52:19 <Pikka> or, for a more comparable example, a default goods van doesn't carry twice as many units as a default food van 19:52:35 <Pikka> so why should my refittable van carry twice as many units of goods as food? :P 19:52:43 <andythenorth> hysterical raisins? 19:53:14 <Pikka> but they're unhysterical raisins 19:53:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess the multipliers were meant ot simulate cargo volume 19:53:21 <andythenorth> I got spanked in my last game 19:53:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but they fail at that 19:53:38 <Xaroth|Work> Pikka: it depends on what the units are 19:53:47 <andythenorth> I built *loads* (hundreds) of supply trucks without noticing that the 30t capacity was falling to 15t when refitted 19:53:50 <Eddi|zuHause> like you cannot fit 1 ton of car into the same space as 1 ton of coal 19:54:04 <Xaroth|Work> much more liquid goes into 1m3 than in 1 litre 19:54:35 <Eddi|zuHause> at night it's colder than outside 19:55:10 <Pikka> about a thousand times, xaroth, but what's that got to do with the price of chickens? 19:55:58 <Xaroth|Work> the price of a liquid chicken is different than a m3 of chicken? :) 19:56:43 <andythenorth> there are no chickens, only livestock 19:56:48 <andythenorth> stop talking about chickens 19:56:59 <Pikka> there's nobody here but us livestock 19:57:04 <andythenorth> livestock comes as 'items' 19:57:14 <Xaroth|Work> I prefer mine liquid though 19:57:16 <Pikka> must be breakfast time 19:57:36 <andythenorth> some of those TTD chickens are really heavy btw 19:57:52 <Pikka> concrete chickens (x5) 19:58:24 <Eddi|zuHause> should replace the capacity multipliers with values for "area" and "volume" of one cargo unit 19:59:26 <Eddi|zuHause> like 1 crate would usually take up the "area" space, coal would use up the "weight" space, and wool would take up the "volume" space 19:59:36 <andythenorth> also number of heads 19:59:49 <Pikka> this is all starting to sound like realism talk 20:01:44 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly, but if we don't specify it, authors will just come up with their own scheme, and different schemes won't be compatible 20:01:45 <andythenorth> unicorns! 20:01:59 <andythenorth> drop bears! 20:02:54 <andythenorth> less realism 20:05:11 <Eddi|zuHause> play NUTS! 20:13:18 <Pikka> Eddi|zuHause, "a road/rail vehicle holds approximately 30 units of cargo" 20:13:27 <Pikka> seems to be everyone's scheme, and working okay so far ;) 20:14:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i have special rules for passengers and mail, and other vehicles it's mostly based on weight 20:15:33 <Pikka> well, there you go 20:15:34 <Eddi|zuHause> so i have axle weight*number of axles minus wagon weight = capacity 20:15:35 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.80.103] has joined #openttd 20:15:39 <Pikka> the fact is it doesn't really matter 20:15:47 <Eddi|zuHause> but for some cargos it feels "wrong" 20:15:49 <Pikka> so you run four wagons instead of five 20:15:55 <Pikka> definitely realism talk :P 20:15:56 <Eddi|zuHause> especially "cars" and "supplies" 20:18:05 <Pikka> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Vert_A_Pac%282%29.jpg how many cars fit in a car wagon? :P 20:19:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: yes, that's like a special wagon then, which is silly to model if you don't restrict car capacity in "normal" wagons 20:22:02 * andythenorth is stuck 20:22:18 <Pikka> stuck doing what? 20:22:23 <andythenorth> express trucks 20:22:30 <Pikka> implied trucks 20:22:45 <andythenorth> and talking on the phone to my mum 20:22:51 <Pikka> why have express trucks? are there even such things? 20:23:00 <andythenorth> mail, armoured crap 20:23:06 <Pikka> oh, those express trucks 20:23:10 <andythenorth> yeah 20:23:20 <Pikka> put 'em in the curry 20:23:24 <Pikka> or a normal box truck 20:24:41 <andythenorth> hah 20:24:48 <andythenorth> actually all is fine 20:29:15 <andythenorth> I got confused by trams 20:29:56 <andythenorth> hmm 20:29:57 <andythenorth> containers 20:30:40 <andythenorth> yair 20:30:51 <andythenorth> Squid the container ships have a speed advantage 20:31:00 <andythenorth> IH the container wagons have a capacity advantage 20:31:13 <andythenorth> what to do with a container truck? 20:34:19 <Taede> loading speed? 20:34:35 <frosch123> stack them on top of each other 20:34:46 <frosch123> and disallow travlling under bridges and in tunnels 20:34:47 <frosch123> or so 20:35:16 <andythenorth> ha ha 20:35:24 <andythenorth> you just gave me a railtype idea for IH 20:35:32 <andythenorth> not so much for trucks though :P 20:36:00 <andythenorth> I could do high loading speed 20:36:06 <frosch123> broad gauge with two containers in parralel? 20:36:07 <andythenorth> but nobody ever knows about loading speed 20:36:13 <Pikka> why do they need an advantage? 20:36:23 <andythenorth> because don't know 20:36:32 <andythenorth> because IH and Squid? 20:36:53 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't somebody try to do a "Breitspur" set? 20:38:15 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, xussr does so. afaik 20:38:28 <frosch123> with broad gauge you can fix all the scaling issues :p 20:38:40 <planetmaker> good evening also :) 20:38:45 <Pikka> there are scaling issues? 20:38:48 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: no, not that kind of broad gauge. the nazi-german plan to do like a 3m gauge 20:39:01 <frosch123> vehicles being more broad than high and long and such 20:39:10 <Pikka> that' 20:39:11 <Pikka> s 20:39:14 <Pikka> an issue? :P 20:39:21 <frosch123> sometimes :p 20:39:42 <frosch123> mostly for those who render 20:39:47 <andythenorth> hmm 20:40:05 <frosch123> they make highly detailed models, which are then rendered into 5 pixels ro so 20:40:07 <andythenorth> Pikka because simply higher capacity for container truck? 20:40:22 <Pikka> perhaps 20:40:31 <andythenorth> or meh 20:40:39 <Pikka> frosch: why do they do that? 20:40:47 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitspurbahn_(Nationalsozialismus) 20:40:56 <frosch123> no idea, i guess they like 3d modelling 20:41:15 <frosch123> some people also use ottd like paint 20:41:21 <frosch123> to build sceneries 20:41:26 <Pikka> some people are silly 20:42:44 <andythenorth> oic 20:42:49 <andythenorth> IH and Squid are inconsistents 20:43:07 <frosch123> is that a good thing? 20:43:10 <frosch123> more variety? 20:44:01 <andythenorth> container ships refit to more cargos than container wagons 20:44:12 <andythenorth> so your containers arrive at a port, but don't go anywhere :P 20:44:19 <andythenorth> except it's just a game of course 20:44:24 <andythenorth> I think those should be kind of consistent 20:45:05 <Pikka> the containers get unpacked at the port perhaps? 20:45:15 <andythenorth> praps 20:45:51 <Pikka> look, a shi(p/t) plan - http://i.imgur.com/70pLqH5.png 20:45:59 <andythenorth> lovely 20:46:13 <andythenorth> no canal boats? 20:46:19 <Pikka> no canal boats 20:46:23 <Pikka> very originalshipslike 20:47:00 <Pikka> now I just need to steal sprites from squid and I'll be done in an afternoon :D 20:47:26 <andythenorth> on with you then 20:47:43 <andythenorth> there are plenty in FISH as well, not all used in Squid 20:48:05 <Pikka> hmm 20:48:18 <Pikka> the difference in size between those fishing boats is negligable, actually 20:48:21 <Pikka> I should change that 20:48:39 <Pikka> or get rid of one of them :D 20:50:08 <andythenorth> just have one 20:50:29 <andythenorth> I found that you could live with just one 20:50:35 <Eddi|zuHause> one of the troubles i had with FISH was to find a train that had the exact same size as a ship and vice versa 20:50:36 <andythenorth> but small and big are nice too, if you're having 30 ships 20:50:40 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: +1 20:50:43 <andythenorth> I stopped caring 20:50:48 <andythenorth> but agree 20:50:49 <Eddi|zuHause> because if they don't match exactly, you have problems with transfering 20:51:00 <andythenorth> I accepted waste :P 20:51:26 <Pikka> andythenorth: if we had "load to at least 85%" orders, right...? 20:51:56 <Eddi|zuHause> "load more than 1 unit of cargo" 20:52:14 <andythenorth> Pikka: never gonna happen 20:52:17 <andythenorth> use conditional orders 20:52:31 <andythenorth> go all the way to a dock on shore, check how much load you have, go back for more 20:52:32 <andythenorth> or less 20:52:48 <Eddi|zuHause> one day i implement this "check whether next order is same as this one before leaving" idea 20:53:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that would solve the partial loading thing with conditional orders 20:53:05 <andythenorth> conditional orders have been provided, so you must use them 20:53:10 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has quit [] 20:53:10 <andythenorth> there can be no alternatives 20:53:15 <frosch123> and break self regulating networks or so :p 20:53:26 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes. they scare me :p 20:53:56 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: and change block signals to only consider valid paths, to break priorities, while at it :p 20:54:38 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but you can just use waypoints to handle the self regulating network 20:55:00 <andythenorth> transporting valuables in curtain-side trucks! 20:55:04 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: if you're loading at an implicit order, the check would always fail 20:55:04 <andythenorth> no problem with that :P 20:55:54 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, that's insane. But then... if Nationalsozialismus comes into play, it often is 20:56:11 <andythenorth> does anyone ever use the *tractors* in HEQS? 20:56:37 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd 20:56:48 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the only HEQS vehicles i ever used was the Mog, the trams and one or two wood trucks 20:57:31 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but that's fine, because HEQS is supposed to fill these niche roles, not the "mainstream" truck roals 20:57:36 <Eddi|zuHause> *roles 20:58:51 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@187.58.245.175] has joined #openttd 21:00:22 <andythenorth> so I have 40 trucks, buses and trams 21:00:30 <andythenorth> Pikka can't manage your ruthlessness :P 21:00:49 <planetmaker> HEQS isn't supposed to be streamline :) 21:00:58 <andythenorth> this is 'new' 21:01:03 <planetmaker> It's supposed to be "oh that kind of weired" 21:01:09 <andythenorth> you can also mix with HEQS if you wish ;) 21:01:30 <planetmaker> pew. I thought you were taking the big sword and cut away on HEQS :) 21:01:42 <andythenorth> nah 21:01:48 <andythenorth> HEQS is HEQS 21:02:08 <andythenorth> it's done, except it needs a bug fix 21:07:50 <andythenorth> also bed time 21:07:56 <andythenorth> Pikka chops here tomorrow? 21:08:46 <Pikka> roughly 21:08:52 <andythenorth> k 21:08:55 <andythenorth> bye all 21:08:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:29:18 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-166-173-232.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:29:38 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:29:52 <Phreeze> 1 more coding and the Diesels are finally done... 21:30:20 <Phreeze> then comes setting of running and purchase costs....arf.... 21:30:30 <Phreeze> and fixing pixel errors 21:31:27 <planetmaker> creating a newgrf is little work. Maintaining is the pain ;) 21:31:48 <Phreeze> what must be maintained ? 21:32:45 <Phreeze> do functions or so change ? 21:33:09 <planetmaker> no, ususally not. I meant basically that work which you described 21:33:24 <planetmaker> fine-tuning. fixing the pesky bugs the pesky users find and complain about etc pp 21:33:49 <Supercheese> Hmm, I haven't had almost any bug reports in my few grfs... 21:33:59 <Supercheese> they're pretty small though 21:34:09 <planetmaker> the actual maintenance is little. Like adding the small but useful additions which sometimes emerge 21:34:26 <Supercheese> I am rather lazy in the additions I've promised, though :P 21:35:22 <Phreeze> lol 21:35:55 <planetmaker> yeah. Make sure that you're not swamped with requests :D 21:47:46 *** Lizz [~Lizz@142.68.207.24] has joined #openttd 21:52:08 *** Ailure [~xxx@81-234-70-203-no41.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:52:57 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:58:19 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19A49.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:03:07 <Phreeze> *prepares some feature demands for supercheese* 22:03:19 <Supercheese> O_o 22:03:34 <Phreeze> [22:35:57] @planetmaker )) yeah. Make sure that you're not swamped with requests :D 22:09:24 <__ln__> he's already working on a high-priority project that'll guarantee great sales figures for openttd in the roman empire. 22:12:07 *** welshdragoon [~Moi@cpc1-oxfd20-2-0-cust78.4-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 22:12:27 *** welshdragoon [~Moi@cpc1-oxfd20-2-0-cust78.4-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 22:12:34 *** welshdragon [~Moi@cpc1-oxfd20-2-0-cust78.4-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:12:48 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.0.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:13:27 *** welshdragon [~Moi@cpc1-oxfd20-2-0-cust78.4-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 22:16:00 <planetmaker> indeed.... how's that translation going, Supercheese ? 22:16:53 <planetmaker> Dice, quot est tuum progressum? 22:20:01 <Supercheese> eh... non laboravi hoc anno; pensum magnum universitats obstabat 22:20:11 <Supercheese> universitatis* 22:20:47 <Supercheese> Hmm, I doubt the Romans used semicolons, I wonder when those were "invented" 22:21:09 <Supercheese> 1494 it seems 22:21:14 <planetmaker> oh, tristis audiens 22:21:47 <Supercheese> Hah, this is an amazing figure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SemicolonFreq.png 22:21:58 <Supercheese> "A graph showing the frequency of semicolon use in English between 1500 and 2008" 22:22:10 <planetmaker> omnie annu? 22:23:33 <frosch123> Supercheese: that clearly does not take programming languages into consideration 22:23:40 <Supercheese> :D 22:24:16 <Supercheese> Well, spring break is next week for me, I'll make some time then 22:24:34 <planetmaker> :) 22:26:08 <planetmaker> Omnia orbs expectant ludus in latinam :) 22:26:27 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:27:55 *** TheIJ [~rita@188.226.187.103] has quit [Quit: BRB!] 22:29:41 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:31:50 *** TheIJ [~rita@188.226.187.103] has joined #openttd 22:33:26 <Supercheese> Laetificor hoc audire 22:36:40 <frosch123> @op 22:36:43 *** mode/#openttd [+o frosch123] by DorpsGek 22:36:57 *** frosch123 changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.4.0-beta5, 1.3.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices 22:37:00 <frosch123> @deop 22:37:03 *** mode/#openttd [-o frosch123] by DorpsGek 22:39:38 <__ln__> solum anglicus? 22:46:13 <Eddi|zuHause> did the romans really have a name for that language that would later become english? 22:46:57 <frosch123> sure 22:47:07 <frosch123> roman emporors were mostly travellers from the future 22:48:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean anglian was probably some early danish dialect and saxon some early lower german dialect 22:49:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and it displaced the gaelic dialects that the population of britain probably spoke (i don't think latin was actually that widespread around the population) 22:52:36 <Eddi|zuHause> (the old saxon that formed the foundation of english has no relation whatsoever with the modern day saxon, as not the saxon people moved, but the name "saxony" moved) 23:02:54 <Wolf01> 'night 23:03:00 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:03:56 *** Lacsap [~Lacsap@modemcable157.188-82-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Lacsap] 23:04:18 *** Aristide [~quassel@tok69-5-82-235-150-75.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 23:05:08 <Phreeze> wtf 23:05:14 <Phreeze> people speaking latin... 23:17:41 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> creating a newgrf is little work. Maintaining is the pain ;) <-- any software development lecture will tell you that maintenance is 90% of the work 23:22:49 <Eddi|zuHause> <Supercheese> Hah, this is an amazing figure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SemicolonFreq.png <-- the most interesting thing in there is that the early sample size is too low to get useful figures out of them, which balances out somewhere around 1700 23:23:44 <Eddi|zuHause> the bump after 2000 is probably winky smilies :p 23:25:17 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.164.39] has quit [] 23:30:07 <Phreeze> ^^ 23:32:26 <Eddi|zuHause> also it probably only counts printed books, not hand-written books, and especially nothing from roman times 23:34:02 <Phreeze> still, they didn't use it so much 23:34:06 <Phreeze> it's useless anyway :D 23:34:22 <Phreeze> we didn't even learn it at school 23:34:31 <Phreeze> it's Schmarrn 23:36:09 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe your schools are just bad? :p 23:36:24 <Phreeze> nope ;) 23:36:26 <Phreeze> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJwv67vfogQ 23:36:32 <Phreeze> watching those "extreme trains" series 23:36:37 <Eddi|zuHause> which language do your schools teach in, anyway? 23:36:43 <Phreeze> really cool, but the guy is hyperactive xD 23:36:52 <Phreeze> german 23:36:57 <Phreeze> and later, french 23:37:02 <frosch123> i definitely used ; in school 23:37:03 <Phreeze> and/or german, depends 23:37:15 <frosch123> anyway, do you also have a usage chart for @ 23:37:31 <Phreeze> @, for emails xD 23:37:46 <Eddi|zuHause> or "#" 23:37:50 <Eddi|zuHause> or "~" 23:37:54 <Phreeze> ñ ? ;) 23:38:03 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody in englushed used "~" before win95 :) 23:38:07 <Phreeze> was zum henker lernt ihr da.. 23:38:15 <Eddi|zuHause> *english used* 23:38:48 <Pinkbeast> cd ~damerell 23:39:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: nobody uses linux :p 23:39:26 <Phreeze> <- works in IT, uses windows everywhere xd 23:39:29 <frosch123> yeah, only weirdos use linux 23:39:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: that's used in spanish, but not in english 23:39:37 <Phreeze> (k, my server running my mailserver is ubuntu...) 23:39:39 <frosch123> they probably even play train games 23:39:56 <Phreeze> i know eddi ;) 23:40:01 <Phreeze> i speak 5 languages^^ 23:40:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: Angeber :p 23:40:12 <Phreeze> *understand 23:40:21 <Phreeze> speaking/writing only 4 23:40:31 <Phreeze> my spanish is limited to 2 years in school.. 23:40:48 <frosch123> i can read greek and cyrillic, does that count? 23:40:50 <Eddi|zuHause> that is pretty much the same here 23:41:07 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: if by "read" you mean "decipher the letters"? 23:41:08 <Phreeze> greek and cyrillic....woooot 23:41:18 <Phreeze> read = understand what you read ^^ 23:41:28 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yes, decipher 23:41:38 <Phreeze> i can decipher Ultima Runes ^^ 23:41:48 <frosch123> but that is enough for navigating software 23:41:54 <Eddi|zuHause> my russian vocabulary probably consists of 5 words 23:42:13 <Phreeze> da 23:42:14 <Phreeze> niet 23:42:16 <Phreeze> vodka 23:42:21 <Phreeze> nastrowie 23:42:28 <Phreeze> kurwa 23:42:31 <Phreeze> or so... 23:42:35 <Pinkbeast> Linux didn't exist the first time I typed cd ~ 23:42:50 <Phreeze> Pinkbeast must be 90... 23:43:15 <Pinkbeast> That would follow because... wait, what? 23:44:36 <frosch123> maybe the world was created in 90... 23:45:17 <Phreeze> world (and USA) was created 2014 years ago 23:45:25 <Phreeze> :D i saw it on the internet ;) 23:45:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: when the russian military pulled out of germany, we had a russian woman living with us for a while, who wasn't really fond of moving to Murmansk with her husband, and she used the word "kuschei" a lot (which means something like "eat!"). and us kids would always reply with "se" :p 23:46:14 <Phreeze> se, which would say: GTFO ^^ 23:46:40 <Phreeze> ?? 23:46:51 <Phreeze> hm caracters not displaying...mirc is too old... 23:47:02 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you have to speak the words outloud together :) 23:48:03 <Eddi|zuHause> tip: it's not a russian word :) 23:48:21 <Phreeze> ah omg 23:48:44 <Phreeze> late in the evening...but must finish that trains episode^^ 23:53:51 *** Phreeze is now known as PhreeZZZZzzzz 23:53:55 <PhreeZZZZzzzz> <-bed 23:54:26 *** ChickeNES [~ChickeNES@128.135.100.108] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzzâŠ] 23:55:25 <planetmaker> oh no... away nicks :P 23:55:58 *** frosch123 is now known as frosch_awake 23:56:15 <Eddi|zuHause> PhreeZZZZzzzz: how can you suffer watching this for more than 2 minutes? 23:57:33 <frosch_awake> away nicks are so pessimistic 23:57:55 <frosch_awake> everyone should have around nicks 23:59:05 *** JdGordon| [~jonno@ppp118-209-113-69.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 23:59:40 <Eddi|zuHause> <- what do you think this is? :p