Log for #openttd on 2nd April 2014:
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01:21:45  <supermop> is there no undo in pixel tool?
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02:57:57  <supermop> would a tram look stupid if it was longer than 1/2 a tile (non-articulated)
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03:01:33  <Eddi|zuHause> who would get the idea of vehicles longer than 1/2 tile!
03:03:33  <supermop> you are a bad influence, eddi
03:03:44  <supermop> although
03:04:06  <Eddi|zuHause> it was actually not even my idea, i just improved it
03:04:36  <supermop> what is to stop me from making it a three part vehicle, with the front and rear bogies as front and rear sections, and the body as the center?
03:05:39  <supermop> the tramways are so narrow compared to rails though, maybe it would look like it was clipping houses in turns
03:06:31  <Eddi|zuHause> well you could copy the CETS code 1:1 in that aspect
03:06:58  <Eddi|zuHause> the main reason i introduced the additional angles is curves
03:07:25  <Eddi|zuHause> and the slicing is supposed to help with glitches
03:07:28  <supermop> trams spend little time in curves thoug
03:07:54  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't mean you can leave it unsolved
03:08:07  <supermop> trying t throw together a quick tram set of 5 or so trams using pixel tool for graphics
03:08:36  <supermop> it might be easier to just use more 'standard' lengths
03:08:54  <Eddi|zuHause> probably
03:09:49  <supermop> but the longest vehicle is 15m, earlier vehicles are 14m or less and later are articulated, so i want to emphasize the length of this one somehow
03:10:20  <Eddi|zuHause> then make the others shorter
03:10:34  <supermop> 8/8 for this and 7/8 for the others might look ok
03:11:05  <Eddi|zuHause> in CETS, 16m is a 8lu vehicle, and 14m 7lu, although the scale is probably slightly smaller than usual
03:11:20  <supermop> hmm
03:12:19  <supermop> i was thinking 3m = 2/8 but i guess that would leave the trams comically large compared to trains
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03:12:49  <Eddi|zuHause> well the "normal" vehicles have heavy length distortion usually
03:12:54  <supermop> yeh
03:13:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd refer to GermanRV as comparison, but that has some nasty scale issues in itself
03:13:49  <Eddi|zuHause> in general, it seems to be a 24m scale
03:14:02  <supermop> also i cant think too much about RV, there are too many extant problems... i just have one more week left of not working 50hrs a week and thought i'd throw together a small set to play with the trams outside my window
03:14:06  <Eddi|zuHause> CETS uses 32m scale
03:14:12  <supermop> 32/tile?
03:14:16  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
03:14:48  <Eddi|zuHause> 24m would be your 3m per 2lu
03:20:40  <supermop> ah hmm ok there is another tram that is 16m
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04:42:59  <supermop> can someone look to see if my server is visible?  i am not sure if i forwarded ports correctly
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07:25:05  <Flygon> Hmm
07:25:12  <Flygon> OTTD keeps stalling randomly
07:29:29  <Pikka> more flap
07:33:38  <Flygon> I don't flap
07:33:39  <supermop> can either of you guys see my server?
07:33:39  <Flygon> I buzz!
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07:38:11  <planetmaker> supermop,
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07:40:48  <supermop> answer seems to be no
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08:38:39  <supermop> good xkcd today
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09:48:13  <Skasi> Hello. I just downloaded and installed the new 1.4.0 windows7 64bit version of ottd (after uninstalling the old version) and get an error about missing sprites in the base graphics set upon start.
09:49:07  <maddy_> you should update your graphics set, you can do it via the in-game 'online content' choice
09:50:44  <Skasi> Thanks! However, shouldn't a stable come with up-to-date base graphics?
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09:54:42  <maddy_> I think the base game comes with no graphics set at all, you have to choose which one to use (original ttd graphics, or opengfx, or something else)
09:55:17  <Pinkbeast> maddy_: But I think Skasi's contention is (rightly) that it would be more sensible for it to come with a working OGFX
09:56:15  <maddy_> well, the devs can answer to that
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10:05:13  <Flygon> You know you're causing issues with engine limitations when you're building ship docks simply because you're hitting the RV limit...
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11:18:53  <planetmaker> Flygon, you got more than 5k RV?
11:20:04  <Flygon> I'm getting there
11:20:06  <Flygon> Most of it Trams
11:20:31  <planetmaker> insane :)
11:20:36  <Flygon> Nah
11:20:45  <Flygon> It's just that this London is a big city
11:20:47  <Flygon> it's 1948
11:20:56  <Flygon> And the passengers can't get a ride x.x
11:21:10  <Flygon> Even with Very Poor ratings, I'm still getting overload
11:21:43  <Flygon> The other issue is Tram Station clogging tho :(
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11:51:54  <supermop> How tall should a tram be?
11:52:24  <supermop> 32Lx10Wx12H seems too stubby
11:52:57  <planetmaker> usual widths is 8...
11:57:06  <Skasi> where I live older trams are around 2 times as high as they are width
11:57:23  <Flygon> What's .at?
11:57:36  <Flygon> Ah, Austria
11:57:41  <Flygon> You guys use NG Trams, right?
11:58:30  <Skasi> oh look, the first picture on wikipedia's tram article features the tram I was talking about
11:58:33  <Flygon> Ah, nope. SG!
11:58:38  <Skasi> all the way to the right
11:58:44  <Flygon> Those're VERY skinny SG Trams
11:58:53  <Flygon> I'm used to Trams in my area being very fat
11:59:45  <Skasi> what's ng and sg?
11:59:46  <Flygon> Old photo
12:00:02  <Skasi> hah thats how the buses look :)
12:00:28  <Flygon> The whole box shape thing (and practically filling up the entire loading gauge) might just make it seem fat though
12:01:13  <Flygon> I'm a tad surprised that there's no Melbourne Tram set... but on the other hand
12:01:17  <Flygon> Our Trams are very boring
12:01:48  <Skasi> hongkong has funny trams too
12:02:44  <Flygon> Shame nowhere else took DD Trams seriously :(
12:03:37  <Flygon> Australia used to have DD Tras
12:03:47  <Flygon> But only really in Hobart, and other very isolated networks :(
12:04:14  <Skasi> it probably all depends on population density and time of introduction, with non-planned trams being skinnier than those of cities that were designed for them in the first place
12:04:16  <Flygon> (note how they practically built a standard Tram boddy and basically went "Eh... nuff room for some seats on the roof"
12:04:51  <Skasi> hehe yeah
12:05:16  <Skasi> I guess theyre rare cause of winter
12:05:35  <Skasi> take hongkong and australia, there's not too much snow in either of them I think?
12:05:48  <Flygon> Yeah
12:05:56  <Flygon> Only snows in Victoria, Tasmania, and South-East NSW
12:06:13  <Skasi> though, hongkong dds are closed so that wouldnt be a big problem hmm
12:06:26  <Flygon> (Tasmania has Hobart, Victoria has Melbourne (but it only snows in East Victoria... sometimes North-East), New South Wales has Sydney)
12:06:28  <Skasi> well at least the versions linked
12:06:45  <Flygon> What's freaky about Hobart's former DD network
12:06:53  <Flygon> Is that it was DESIGNED for DD Trams
12:07:00  <Flygon> ...on a Narrow Gauge network
12:07:05  <Flygon> :D
12:07:24  <Flygon> Single bogie DD NG Trams
12:07:26  <Flygon> Insane!
12:07:43  <Skasi> "buy security bonds" haha
12:07:45  <Flygon> (that incident only happened because all the Trams brakes failed)
12:07:53  <Flygon> (it was during WWII)
12:08:07  <Skasi> "buy secure-tram bonds"
12:08:12  <Flygon> (it was going downhill... only thing they could do was just ding the bell loudly >_<)
12:08:49  <Skasi> "help keep prices down - and while at it, help keep trams on rails too!"
12:09:30  <Flygon> But, yeah
12:09:40  <Flygon> Sadly, Hobart tore down their network by the early 60s :(
12:09:53  <Flygon> As did Sydney (Sydney had the world's largest individual network)
12:10:15  <Flygon> Sydney's network was amazing... so sad. The residents were rightfully VERY angry with how it was torn down, too.
12:12:04  <Flygon> Victoria also got hit hard... Geelong's network was completely ripped down, Ballarat barely retained a small part of one line, Bendigo is very lucky to have what little network it has, and Melbourne's very very lucky to've actually been constructing new parts of network in the 50s and 60s...
12:12:14  <Flygon> But Melbourne also had some of the most boring rollingstock
12:12:51  <Flygon> Hobart had the DDs, Adelaide had the EMU Trams, Sydney... er, well, they were also "Boring but Practical", but the R-class was a pretty nice design
12:13:01  <Flygon> But one thing that annoys me with OTTD Tram sets
12:13:09  <Flygon> Is that they don't break 40-50km/h in the 30s to 50s
12:13:27  <Flygon> irl Melbourne, Sydney, and Adelaide? Trams breaking 80km/h in service.
12:14:38  <Flygon> (one neat PCC/W-class Tram hybrid in Melbourne even reportedly broke 110km/h in the 1950s during testing! Not bad for what boiled down to a PCC car that's basically half-veryoutdated equipment!)
12:14:55  <Flygon> (I say reportedly, though. There's no official record)
12:15:12  <Flygon> Sorry for the foaming x.x
12:15:37  <Flygon> Just always been interested in the history of Tram transport
12:16:02  <Flygon> Really the real first method of going around that didn't involve being stuck behind a slow horse-and-cart
12:16:11  <Flygon> In urban areas, that is
12:16:32  <Flygon> A train can't just be plopped on the street and go 'round like it's no deal... you gotta be minaturized and subtle!
12:21:36  <Skasi> yuppers
12:21:44  <Skasi> small things are always cute :)
12:27:30  <Flygon> Though, Melbourne's Cable Trams are almost adorably tiny
12:28:22  <Flygon> It's tiiiiiny
12:29:23  <Flygon> The trailer too!
12:29:34  <Flygon> They're like boxes, thanks to their width!
12:31:22  <supermop> Flygon:  i asked because i am putting a basic thing together over the next wee
12:31:23  <supermop> k
12:31:36  <Flygon> x3 Sorry
12:31:41  <Flygon> I just kinda blabber on easy
12:31:49  <supermop> aim is just what is rolling right now
12:32:10  <supermop> with past models and other liveries as stretch goals/ for later
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12:33:19  <supermop> besides W class can get you started in the 20s, with a good complement all the way up through E class today
12:33:37  <supermop> so a functional set can be made with only current stock
12:34:02  <Flygon> Ah, I didn't know you were Victorian
12:34:19  <supermop> Z class seem to be the longest non-articulated models to have run so thaats my benchmark
12:34:30  <Flygon> Regardless of the specific type, I know a lot of Trams, not just in Australia, could easily run over 80km/h, even before 1920
12:34:37  <Flygon> Er, 60km/h
12:34:40  <Celestar> goodday
12:34:41  <Flygon> 8 was a typo x.x
12:34:43  <supermop> i am not, just moved here two months ago
12:34:54  <Flygon> Ey, mate. You're Victorian enough.
12:36:03  <supermop> so goal for tonight is to decide whether the z class at 16m is 8/8 or 10/8
12:36:27  <Flygon> That's a bloody good question
12:36:50  <supermop> and then to decide if 15m trams are drawn as essentially the same length or noticably shorter
12:37:25  <Flygon> Well
12:37:32  <Flygon> If you play at close zoom all the time like I do
12:37:37  <Flygon> Due to network refining
12:37:38  <supermop> if the trams are cartoonish and stubby (which they must be to some degree) then maybe W, Z, and A are all the same
12:37:41  <Flygon> 1px is noticable
12:38:36  <supermop> but if i try to be a bit more detailed, i'd like to have the scale difference
12:38:49  <Flygon> Hmm...
12:39:05  <Flygon> Well, it's best I try not to answer. I'm not very involved with GRF work x:
12:39:46  <supermop> 10/8 is a bit more complex to code but doable
12:40:07  * Flygon nod
12:40:16  <supermop> but long skinny trams just might look bad on the openttd tramways and corners
12:40:42  <Flygon> That too x.x
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13:46:57  <supermop> i wonder whhat height of pantograph/trolley pole should be
13:48:45  <V453000> 666
13:48:47  <Flygon> Have it vary with the height of the overhead wire
13:48:52  <Flygon> :B
13:49:28  <Flygon> Seriously though, might just be easiest to copy from that eGTVRS set (or however it's acronymed)
13:58:23  <supermop> ok bed
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14:08:54  <planetmaker> eGRVTS = Extended Generic Road Vehicle and Tram Set :)
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15:46:34  <__ln___>
16:09:23  <peter1138> Errr... what?
16:11:34  <__ln___> because
16:12:38  <__ln___> they say it was empty and no one was hurt
16:16:29  <Pinkbeast> Bet that taxi driver browned himself tho' ;-)
16:17:00  <__ln___> bet that taxi wasn't there when it happened :)
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16:26:15  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf? how fast was this thing going around that corner? and why didn't it tear down the catenary?
16:26:42  <Pinkbeast> The pantograph just presses up against the wire, surely, no reason it should tear it down
16:27:36  <frosch123> maybe it was hit by a running unicorn
16:27:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: it leaves the path of the catenary, then the pantograph rises, and by the time it passes the catenary of the neighbouring track... BOOM
16:29:09  <Pinkbeast> But the panto's got edges that curve down so if it hasn't had time to rise too far, it can scoop up the next wire, maybe?
16:31:24  <Pikka> pretty good parking job though.
16:31:51  <Pinkbeast> Definitely, if you're playing Grand Theft Strassenbahn
16:35:28  <rubidium> it also depends on the height of the catenary and the maximum height the pantograph can rise to
16:36:20  * rubidium has seen the images of a failing pantograph height limiter at a small powerless section
16:36:48  <Eddi|zuHause> well modern pantographs certainly have detection mechanisms for when the catenary is gone (instead of slowly changing height), but the question is how fast they react
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16:37:52  <Eddi|zuHause> and surely, a few cm more or less height make a difference
16:38:09  <rubidium> in this case it's more likely that the catenary's height is close to the maximum reach of the panto, so the angled edges push the wire up
16:39:09  <rubidium> on the other hand...
16:39:29  <rubidium> looks like the panto was weaker than the wire as it seems to have snapped
16:40:06  <Pinkbeast> I wondered if it had just been lowered after the comedy ensued.
16:41:54  <Eddi|zuHause> a properly lowered pantograph would not look like this
16:47:39  <Eddi|zuHause> "the april's fools joke of was cancelled, because the real NSA news over the past years were already too obscure"
16:48:12  <Eddi|zuHause> "they fear that any joke they would make about it, could be exceeded by reality soon"
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17:45:19  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26441 trunk/src/lang/norwegian_bokmal.txt (2014-04-02 17:45:12 UTC)
17:45:20  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:21  <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 2 changes by kristoffer_hh
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18:07:22  <andythenorth> o/
18:07:34  <V453000> hy
18:09:52  <andythenorth> why acceleration setting?
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18:12:26  <falkooo> hi i played loang ago the 0.7 and sa 1.4 is out is there a list of changes in the last years?
18:12:46  <V453000> acceleration setting?
18:12:59  <andythenorth> V453000: forums
18:13:01  <V453000> the original/realistic shit?
18:14:11  <V453000> me doesnt see it
18:16:20  <frosch123> falkooo:
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18:22:02  <andythenorth> big truck
18:22:37  <andythenorth> 225t payload
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18:27:23  <falkooo> thx
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18:55:37  <andythenorth> let’s make things!
19:01:59  <Zuu> make things
19:02:00  <Zuu> :-)
19:02:45  <andythenorth> Zuu: make GS!
19:02:51  * andythenorth had a look at GS
19:02:55  <andythenorth> looks like real programming
19:03:00  <andythenorth> not andythenorth programming
19:05:31  <andythenorth> Zuu: can I have a NCG with 6 cargos? o_O
19:06:01  <Zuu> It needs 3 more medal names and some for loops are probably hard coded at 3 medals.
19:06:33  <andythenorth> I had a look myself, and it did look hard coded in some places
19:09:32  <andythenorth> Gold, silver, bronze, brass, steel, tin
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19:18:09  <frosch123> usually it is extended on the other end :)
19:18:23  <frosch123> bronce, silver, gold, diamons, platinum, master, grand master
19:18:40  <frosch123> noone wants to be copper or tin :p
19:19:00  <frosch123> inflation makes everyone happy
19:20:31  <andythenorth> ha
19:20:36  <andythenorth> ‘everyone must be a winner'
19:20:41  * andythenorth disagrees
19:27:11  <Zuu> Hmm, I got some local non-committed/published NoCarGoal changes. They seem to mainly add colours to strings and alter wordings regarding end year.
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19:38:08  <Zuu> No idea if those changes are wanted or work :-)
19:38:58  <andythenorth> he
19:39:11  <andythenorth> I love finding old non-committed changes :)
19:39:17  <andythenorth> I always forget what they were for
19:41:52  <LordAro> procrastination:
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19:58:48  <frosch123> hmm, i thought we changes the industry-tile-is-clear check years ago, so it checks for water tiles for water industries, and land tile for land industries
20:00:01  <andythenorth> I might have read it wrong
20:00:12  <andythenorth> it has the expected result for water
20:00:33  <frosch123> well, oilrigs will break if you make them also check for clear land :p
20:00:47  <frosch123> the whole point of the check is to make them not spawn near coast or so
20:01:17  <frosch123> anyway, should i bother grepping my logs?
20:01:56  <frosch123> ah!
20:02:01  <frosch123> andythenorth: you wrote a patch for it :)
20:02:18  <andythenorth> did I?
20:03:06  <frosch123>
20:04:27  <frosch123>
20:05:08  <andythenorth> oh I did :o
20:05:17  <frosch123> only 4 years ago :p
20:05:29  <andythenorth> I wrote a patch \o/
20:05:35  <andythenorth> and then we solved it without a patch :)
20:06:08  <frosch123> so, the conclusion was to add separate checks for water/land, instead of making i depend on the industry-on-water flag
20:06:17  <frosch123> +t
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20:16:37  <frosch123> night
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20:17:22  <juzza1> does nmlc crop 32bpp images?
20:18:03  <juzza1> and is the cropping just per the image coordinates from realsprites, or is it more "intelligent" (ie. find smallest rectangle around sprite and adjust offsets)
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20:36:31  <andythenorth> hmm
20:36:34  <andythenorth> car transporter trucks
20:36:37  <andythenorth> bit specialist
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21:07:33  <planetmaker> g'evening
21:07:54  <planetmaker> <andythenorth> I love finding old non-committed changes :)
21:07:54  <planetmaker> <andythenorth> I always forget what they were for <-- hehe, I know that, too :P
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21:15:21  <andythenorth> bye
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22:55:23  <NGC3982> Evening
22:55:29  <NGC3982> I hate locale with every fiber of my body.
22:59:26  <mg_> god, this newgrf stuff is complicated to figure out which gfx to get (i haven't played openttd yet, only original ttd). after 2 hours of forum research i think i'm set  :-)
22:59:41  <NGC3982> That sounds nice.
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