Config
Log for #openttd on 6th January 2015:
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00:12:37  *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
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11:05:19  <dreck> hi
11:07:28  <peter1138> neeeeeeeigh
11:07:49  <peter1138> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/#.VKvADP2xrEU
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11:19:45  <__ln___> clock stop
11:19:57  <peter1138> indeed
11:20:09  <__ln___> is that bad?
11:27:28  <Eddi|zuHause> only if it stops beyond the launch window
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11:54:10  <dreck> hi ladyhawk
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12:06:28  <LadyHawk> hello dreck
12:07:45  <dreck> hows you?
12:08:09  <LadyHawk> i'm ok, headache but it'll fade
12:08:25  <peter1138> Coffee
12:08:27  <LadyHawk> how are you?
12:08:34  <LadyHawk> coffee is in the coffee machine =)
12:08:36  <dreck> hope you get better soon :-s
12:08:40  <dreck> and I'm doing ok for now
12:09:01  <LadyHawk> thank you
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12:10:40  <alluke> hohoo
12:10:49  <alluke> didnt sleep at all  last night
12:10:58  <alluke> sleep is for pussies
12:12:34  <LadyHawk> sleep is my friend
12:12:55  <LadyHawk> over the holiday period i was sleeping from 2am-2pm
12:13:32  * LadyHawk is apparently a pussy
12:13:38  <LadyHawk> :p
12:14:19  <peter1138> Coffee in the machine is in the wrong place :-)
12:14:26  <dreck> lol
12:15:50  <LadyHawk> it's in my cup sitting next to me now
12:15:53  <LadyHawk> im working on it!
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12:18:28  <alluke> i stay awake with the magic of coffee
12:18:54  <alluke> hopefully the coffee lasts till 21 00
12:18:56  <LadyHawk> i do that at work
12:19:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a holiday...
12:19:22  <LadyHawk> when i'm at home i dont tend to drink coffee after like 8pm
12:19:24  <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't have a coffee addiction anyway
12:19:30  <LadyHawk> feels wrong to go to bed buzzing on coffee =P
12:19:41  <alluke> got my new licence yesterday
12:19:49  <alluke> BE C1E C
12:19:53  <alluke> 8)
12:19:57  <LadyHawk> ?
12:20:17  <alluke> driver's licence
12:21:36  * LadyHawk checks hers
12:22:10  <LadyHawk> those codes are very different from mine
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12:22:24  <alluke> where do you live
12:22:26  <LadyHawk> i dunno what they mean =)
12:22:27  <LadyHawk> england
12:22:43  <alluke> those should be in use in whole europe afaik
12:22:49  <alluke> at least in eu
12:23:11  <LadyHawk> they may just not be on mine.. older licences here have a wishlist of codes on them but the newer card licences only have a few
12:23:20  <LadyHawk> i have a newer one
12:23:32  <alluke> you prolly have B?
12:23:39  <LadyHawk> b,b1,f,k,p
12:23:49  <alluke> woot
12:24:02  <alluke> what the hell are those
12:24:10  <LadyHawk> that's what i thought looking at yours
12:24:11  <LadyHawk> lol
12:24:18  <LadyHawk> b cars
12:24:30  <LadyHawk> b1 vans & people carriers up to 6 i think
12:24:38  <LadyHawk> fkp muppets n stuff
12:24:42  <LadyHawk> (mopeds)
12:24:59  <alluke> be = car and trailer
12:25:08  <alluke> c1e light truck and trailer
12:25:14  <alluke> c heav truck
12:25:26  <LadyHawk> ohh, those are nice
12:25:30  * dreck has class 1, 3, 4B, 5, and 6D in name of quebec :)
12:25:46  <LadyHawk> that's a seperate test here that's quite pricey
12:25:55  <LadyHawk> to get those codes on the licence
12:25:57  <LadyHawk> well done =)
12:25:59  <alluke> i got those all for free
12:26:06  <LadyHawk> ;o
12:27:18  <LadyHawk> if i had had an older licence i would also be able to drive tracktors and weird things like that
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12:27:39  <Eddi|zuHause> well, usually you get the company you work for to pay for the C license
12:27:59  <alluke> i got my licences from army where i served for year
12:28:01  <Eddi|zuHause> alluke: any particular reason for not CE?
12:28:14  <alluke> in civil world theyd cost many tons
12:28:26  <alluke> only the best ones were chosen to  CE course
12:28:41  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, if you have an army license, you can get the test cheaper
12:28:55  <Eddi|zuHause> or rather, you can skip most of the expensive lessons
12:29:33  <alluke> oh how i miss the army trucks
12:29:38  <alluke> they were fun as fuck
12:29:51  * peter1138 has B, BE, C1, C1E, D1 and D1E. And fklnp.
12:30:22  <Eddi|zuHause> don't you have to renew the bus and truck licenses like every 5 years?
12:30:46  <alluke> i have to i suppose
12:30:52  <alluke> the card expires in 2019
12:31:34  <peter1138> No. C1 is only up to 7500 kg.
12:31:54  <peter1138> D1 is only a minibus.
12:32:14  <alluke> what was the max seats for d1
12:32:19  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but transporting more than 8 people commercially...
12:32:49  <peter1138> For full truck and bus, yeah, they need renewal, I'm sure.
12:33:03  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i have only B (and ML, which is mopeds and agricultural vehicles)
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12:33:18  <peter1138> alluke, 16.
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12:33:30  <peter1138> code 101 - not for hire or reward
12:33:38  <alluke> i want to buy a bus and turn it into a c-licence camper / bar / strip club
12:33:58  <Eddi|zuHause> with C you can drive a bus, it may just not have more than 8 passengers at a time
12:34:07  <alluke> not anymore
12:34:19  <alluke> the wise people in eu changed that
12:34:24  <peter1138> Bus is D.
12:34:34  <peter1138> Large vehicles is C.
12:34:35  <planetmaker> I probably would get B, BE, C1 and C1E would I apply to get my license re-written
12:34:39  <alluke> you cant drive even empty bus anymore with c
12:35:05  <alluke> unless you screw the seats off
12:35:11  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you still have 3?
12:35:17  <alluke> and register it into a truck
12:35:43  <peter1138> Cat D is 8 passenger seats, not passengers.
12:35:46  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes
12:35:59  <planetmaker> the pinkish license
12:36:13  <V453000> planetmaker: which license letter is for planets? :P
12:36:18  <planetmaker> that's p
12:36:23  <Eddi|zuHause> well, they were already phased out when i was old enough
12:36:33  <peter1138> I got my license just a few months before they stopped adding on so many categories by default.
12:36:43  <alluke> which licence is for unicorns
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12:37:03  <peter1138> K
12:37:14  <planetmaker> my license is from 1994... so yeah, old git :P
12:37:35  <peter1138> 94... didn't realise you were that old
12:37:57  <V453000> he is ten times older than you might ever imagine
12:38:44  <alluke> back in 94 i was sucking tits
12:38:52  <planetmaker> not quite beluga-ish :P
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12:39:24  <peter1138> Mine is '96
12:39:31  <Eddi|zuHause> it's only 6 years older than mine
12:39:52  <LadyHawk> mines 19.12.08
12:40:01  <LadyHawk> with a 'wtf' story attached to it
12:41:19  <LadyHawk> got it just before christmas, lessons with the AA, 'almost ready' since march but refused to give me a mock test, went on went on.. bf went mad, suddenly the AA had no driving instructors in my area.. went to a different driving school which gave me 2 free hours to see how far i was
12:41:32  <LadyHawk> and i was told... why haven't you done ur test yet.. so i took the test
12:41:37  <LadyHawk> passed with 1 minor
12:42:50  <LadyHawk> apparently, since driving instructors are self employed, they want to try and 'stretch' your lessons on till after the holidays so they got some money
12:42:59  <alluke> drifting trucks is one of the best things you can do with your pants on
12:43:06  <LadyHawk> big places like the AA may seem great, but apparently, not
12:44:29  <LadyHawk> i'd like to learn how to drift one day
12:44:37  <alluke> its easy
12:44:39  <Eddi|zuHause> what's an AA?
12:44:51  <alluke> just floor it in curve and countersteer if neessary
12:44:58  <alluke> thats how i did it
12:45:08  <alluke> worked with 4wd lr defender too
12:45:15  <LadyHawk> the AA is a very big company that sorts out driving lessons/road side breakdown/insurrance/whole heap more
12:45:19  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, possibly the automobile association?
12:45:45  <LadyHawk> so how do you drive in a front wheel drive
12:45:56  <LadyHawk> that weighs as much as a balloon?
12:46:06  <LadyHawk> drift*
12:46:16  <alluke> havent tried
12:46:26  <alluke> but watch tiff needels videos in youtube
12:46:29  <LadyHawk> full lock and slam the accelerator doesn't work
12:46:31  <Eddi|zuHause> a balloon doesn't weigh anything, hence it floats...
12:46:41  <LadyHawk> just get massive understeer
12:47:02  <LadyHawk> assuming you can get the wheels to stop spinning anyway
12:47:07  <alluke> watch and learn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daQNuKjTKv8
12:47:27  <alluke> and surprise your friends next time theyll ride in your car
12:47:39  <LadyHawk> OMG ford puma? i drive that haha
12:47:42  * LadyHawk watches
12:47:52  <alluke> perfect :D
12:47:58  <LadyHawk> silver too XD
12:48:06  <alluke> :D
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12:49:49  <peter1138> Heh, the handbrake turn... not gonna work.
12:49:54  <alluke> why not
12:50:08  <peter1138> Cos my handbrake works on the front ;p
12:50:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i never felt the need to try out these things
12:51:20  <peter1138> Pretty stupid stuff to do on public roads.
12:51:32  <alluke> wtf is the point for that
12:51:45  <V453000> CATS
12:51:49  <alluke> gear locks the front wheels
12:51:50  <alluke> hb rear
12:53:05  <LadyHawk> heh
12:53:36  <peter1138> It allows the handbrake to be used as an emergency brake.
12:53:42  <LadyHawk> that guy in that video just said if u try to drift you 'get nothing but understeer, understeer and more boring understeer' then he sais 'so u gotta do it like this!' haha
12:53:57  <peter1138> That's not "that guy"
12:53:58  <LadyHawk> understeer, yes noticed
12:54:11  <peter1138> That's Tiff Needell.
12:54:12  <LadyHawk> understeer even in roundabouts
12:54:16  <LadyHawk> who?
12:54:18  <LadyHawk> XD
12:54:20  <peter1138> :s
12:54:24  <peter1138> How old are you?
12:54:28  <LadyHawk> 29
12:56:27  <LadyHawk> surprised?
12:56:47  <peter1138> Oh well.
12:57:08  <peter1138> Was a Top Gear presenter.
12:57:13  <peter1138> And a racing driver.
12:57:21  <LadyHawk> i watch top gear
12:57:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't.
12:57:45  <LadyHawk> only ever seen those 3 numpties, never him
12:58:00  <peter1138> Proper Top Gear, not Jemery Clarkson's Comedy Show.
12:58:04  <LadyHawk> lol
12:58:14  <peter1138> Jeremy, even...
12:58:20  <LadyHawk> then i dont watch top gear =)
12:58:30  <peter1138> (Jeremy was in the original Top Gear, mind you.
12:58:32  <peter1138> )
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13:00:39  <alluke> my library got its 200th song yesterday
13:00:39  <peter1138> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkWHG-Vqrv8
13:00:43  <alluke> 2000th*
13:00:45  <peter1138> Okay, they had some weird clips...
13:00:57  <peter1138> Potato quality :s
13:01:56  <LadyHawk> :O @ james may
13:02:05  <LadyHawk> haha he's so young there, never seen him like that XD
13:02:07  <peter1138> Looking very young.
13:02:23  <alluke> today they all have grey hair
13:10:55  <alluke> wish i had money http://www.nettiauto.com/ford/escort/6695513
13:13:44  <peter1138> For an old crappy Ford? :s
13:14:06  <alluke> aint she pretty little thing?
13:20:17  <LadyHawk> http://www.mr2.com/forums/threads/73202-Pristine-1995-Toyota-MR2-turbo
13:20:45  <LadyHawk> that's the kinda car i want
13:20:59  <LadyHawk> but a second gen toyota mr2 manual will do, too
13:22:17  <alluke> it can kill you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxSZg2tFX_U
13:23:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i had a ford escort the past 2 years
13:23:32  <LadyHawk> i tend to drive with the heater on full at my feet, with the windows open slightly
13:23:53  <Eddi|zuHause> now i have a golf... my cars seem to get older in every incarnation
13:26:04  <LadyHawk> hehe
13:26:10  <LadyHawk> this ford puma i drive is my 2nd car
13:26:23  <LadyHawk> my first car was a ford mondeo mark 1.. the only mondeo that had 4wd
13:26:25  <LadyHawk> i loved that thing
13:26:41  <LadyHawk> made snowdriving seem so easy
13:26:45  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf do you need 4wd for?
13:26:58  <LadyHawk> nobody believed me when i said it was a 4wd
13:27:07  <LadyHawk> till the scrap note confirmed it was a mark1
13:27:32  <LadyHawk> the car was £100 when i bought it
13:27:59  <LadyHawk> i wasn't complaining
13:28:04  <LadyHawk> was a good condition too
13:28:59  <LadyHawk> the car started falling apart, the cooling pipes, exhaust, etc.. but the engine, the heart of that car baffled any engineer working on it & mot testers alike cuz of its good condition
13:29:41  <LadyHawk> didn't realise when i bought it that it was 4wd, till i did research on it afterwards
13:30:06  <LadyHawk> i figured it was front wheel drive like the rest of the mondeos
13:30:23  <alluke> why the fuck did you scrap 4wd mondeo??????
13:30:39  <LadyHawk> because a jack went through the back window, the bonnet and the boot
13:30:52  <LadyHawk> and the side window but that didn't break
13:31:12  <alluke> aww
13:31:16  <LadyHawk> i never wanted to scrap it
13:31:23  <LadyHawk> i loved that car
13:31:27  <alluke> those are rare
13:31:30  <LadyHawk> yeah
13:31:41  <alluke> did it drift well on snow
13:31:53  <LadyHawk> never tried
13:32:10  <alluke> fail
13:32:21  <LadyHawk> snow driving was insanely easy, my drive is on a big slope, that car was the only one to be able to get up there easily, while most, can't get up at all
13:32:23  <alluke> thats what you buy r/4wd car for
13:33:22  <LadyHawk> i can get a front whee ldrive up there, after a few attempts with a runup
13:33:33  <LadyHawk> but it's hard
13:33:40  <LadyHawk> i gtg to shop & get ready for work
13:34:37  <LadyHawk> on the bright side though
13:34:41  <LadyHawk> i got £250 for scrapping it
13:34:43  <LadyHawk> heh
13:34:44  <LadyHawk> afk
13:35:04  <alluke> only
13:35:10  <alluke> the parts alone are worth more
13:35:14  <LadyHawk> http://ladyhawk.flawlesscorruption.net/screens/car.JPG
13:35:19  <LadyHawk> my old mondeo
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13:35:44  <alluke> nice
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17:41:36  <__ln___> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6rL0ZMCEAAvb9n.jpg:large
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17:42:02  <NGC3982> Oh my.
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17:43:37  <NGC3982> That link crached IE for me. :()
17:45:58  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27114 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2015-01-06 17:45:49 UTC)
17:45:59  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:00  <DorpsGek> catalan - 2 changes by juanjo
17:46:01  <DorpsGek> danish - 2 changes by Gankenstein
17:46:02  <DorpsGek> spanish - 5 changes by juanjo
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18:03:01  <andythenorth> o/
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18:04:12  <Elyon> o/
18:04:53  <Elyon> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p7owspveq teaser
18:06:27  <planetmaker> yet another programming language for newgrfs?
18:06:37  <Elyon> it's just stations
18:06:49  <Elyon> and it's just python
18:07:53  <andythenorth> it’s not miles away from how I do FIRS
18:08:00  <Elyon> :)
18:08:01  <Alberth> every run gives a unique newgrf? :)
18:08:07  <Elyon> haha no
18:08:13  <Elyon> the library seeds the rng
18:08:24  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/industries/aluminium_plant.py
18:09:46  <Elyon> ah :)
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18:12:08  <frosch123> Elyon: i guess if you use nml.OutputGRF and derive some new class from nml.actions.BaseAction you can use the nml grf encoder
18:12:15  <frosch123> including sprite cache and stuff
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18:12:40  <Elyon> frosch123: oh that's an interesting idea
18:13:29  <Alberth> andythenorth: configurable goal timeout length
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18:13:35  <andythenorth> ho ho :)
18:13:44  <Elyon> frosch123: so I just get nml source and dig in?
18:13:48  * andythenorth needs to get back onto ottd stuff
18:13:56  <andythenorth> I shipped some grfs and then stopped for a bit :P
18:14:03  <Alberth> christmas is done :)
18:14:15  <andythenorth> yeah
18:14:19  <andythenorth> tax return less so
18:14:35  <Alberth> hmm, sounds useful to spend time on :)
18:14:45  <andythenorth> ‘useful'
18:14:58  <Alberth> depending on howm "return" you get
18:15:04  <Alberth> *how much
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18:16:18  <frosch123> Elyon: i guess you can take main.py and remove everything that deals with the nml syntax. i guess starting from line 281 you can reuse stuff
18:17:10  <frosch123> at that point there is a list of actions
18:17:18  <Elyon> I'll definitely look into it
18:17:19  <frosch123> you probably need to reuse RealSpriteAction
18:17:34  <frosch123> but for the pseudo sprites you can likely just create a new derived class
18:17:43  <Elyon> frosch123: thanks a lot for the insights
18:22:20  <andythenorth> wow, over a year since last FIRS update
18:22:24  <andythenorth> where did that time go?
18:22:30  <andythenorth> and nothing planned on FIRS either
18:22:34  <andythenorth> that set is dead maybe?
18:23:50  <planetmaker> maybe 'done'
18:24:36  <andythenorth> about the same
18:24:48  <andythenorth> ‘no longer of interest to its authors’
18:25:36  <andythenorth> perhaps?
18:28:07  <Alberth> yeti is the new kid on the block
18:30:17  <andythenorth> well
18:30:22  <andythenorth> maybe it’s a competition :)
18:31:03  <Alberth> :O
18:31:14  <Elyon> :1
18:31:15  <Alberth> who's best in 5 randomly selected categories?
18:32:28  <andythenorth> dunno, I never saw industry sets as a competition
18:32:31  <andythenorth> maybe I should :P
18:36:32  <Alberth> write a game script for coding goals?
18:41:20  <Elyon> {w
18:41:24  <Elyon> err
18:41:31  <Elyon> mistakes were made
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18:46:37  <Alberth> where would be the challenge, otherwise? :)
19:11:18  * andythenorth could use a bit less of that kind of challenge :P
19:11:27  * andythenorth makes a lot of mistakes
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20:54:29  <Elyon> well well nml
20:55:22  <frosch123> does it rhyme?
20:55:27  <Elyon> it duz!
20:55:54  <Elyon> so yeah, working my way through repurposing the nml module for my own diabolical ends
20:56:11  <Elyon> there's a lot of strictness involved compared to my little thingie :p
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20:56:18  <Elyon> I can't just write `0`
20:56:27  <Elyon> I have to write `expression.ConstantNumeric(0)`
20:56:53  <frosch123> yeah, every expression has a Position assigned
20:56:56  <frosch123> for error messages
20:57:01  <Elyon> it's neat
20:57:17  <Elyon> a bit unwieldy, but the GRF developer needs not know of these anyway
20:58:12  <Elyon> makes sense, really. I find an often-occurring proportionality between framework 'ease-of-use', and framework complexity
20:59:34  <Elyon> also, while I've been developing with ruby for a good 6 years, python doesn't seem too bad
20:59:40  <Elyon> except regex syntax, yuck
21:00:03  <frosch123> aren't all regex pcre these days?
21:00:05  <frosch123> does ruby do something else?
21:00:17  <Elyon> ruby has regex as a built-in type
21:01:26  <Elyon> '0xdeadbeef'.match(/0x([0-9A-Fa-f][0-9A-Fa-f]*)/)[1] => 'deadbeef'
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21:01:42  <V453000> XD that line makes me shiver
21:01:50  <Elyon> wai?
21:02:07  <frosch123> that's not too different to python, is it?
21:02:21  <Elyon> does python support the // syntax?
21:02:34  <Elyon> /<regex>/<config> I mean?
21:03:53  <V453000> idk, when I see the various unreadable characters it just creates some strange laughter inside :D
21:04:00  <frosch123> re.match('0x([0-9A-Fa-f][0-9A-Fa-f]*)', '0xdeadbeef')[0]
21:04:05  <V453000> yeah that XD
21:04:18  <frosch123> no, python uses classes instead of special operators
21:04:29  <frosch123> it already has 3 levels of generic string quotations
21:04:37  <frosch123> no need for another / quotation mark
21:04:39  <Elyon> it's not an operator, it's a delimiter
21:04:47  <Elyon> and regexes aren't strings
21:05:00  <Elyon> imho I like how ruby/js has regex as a builtin
21:05:41  <frosch123> your line from above does look the same to me as in python
21:05:50  <frosch123> just the order of pattern and string are swapped
21:06:02  <frosch123> and python uses string quotation instead of a special /
21:06:08  <Elyon> match "\dx" for me then :p
21:06:29  <Elyon> nah, it gets unwieldy with escapes when regexes are strings imho
21:06:48  <frosch123> python has 3 different quotation marks to choose from
21:06:55  <Elyon> yeah
21:06:56  <frosch123> that's way easier than /
21:07:08  <Elyon> hmm
21:08:00  <frosch123> esp. with the triple """ marks you never run into any escape issues
21:08:04  <Elyon> I prefer /<re>/<cfg>, but that may just be my penchant for vim that does it
21:08:13  <Elyon> hmm that's true actually.
21:08:44  <frosch123> when using sed or awk in scripts you can always pick a custom escape character, but with inserting shell variables it always fails in some case :p
21:09:02  <Elyon> I don't see how any of them are easier than `/` though. anything delimited by two `/` is inherently a regex, whereas in python you have to be explicit with the re module
21:09:37  <Elyon> besides, ruby obv. has a Regex class you can use if for some arcane reason the delimiters don't match your issue solving
21:09:58  <Elyon> I'm not saying `/` is easier, just that I don't find """ easier than `/`
21:10:01  <frosch123> well, i don't know about ruby syntax, but it looks to me like "match" is a method of the string class
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21:10:05  <Elyon> or " or ' for that matter
21:10:26  <Elyon> wait I may have put it down wrong, lemme see what I wrote
21:10:51  <Elyon> yeah it's the other way around, my mistake
21:10:57  <Elyon> anyway, syntactic sugar abound:
21:10:57  <andythenorth> ugh, passing shell vars from python reliably
21:11:07  * andythenorth got smacked by that recently
21:11:19  <Elyon> '0xdeadbeef'[/0x([0-9A-Fa-f][0-9A-Fa-f]*)/][1] => 'deadbeef'
21:11:34  <andythenorth> http://pymotw.com/2/shlex/ seemed to help
21:12:00  <frosch123> oh, a regular expression for the [] operator?
21:12:06  <Elyon> I'm not bashing python by the way, I just like the conciseness of ruby's regex syntax. Ruby has nothing on python's list comprehension
21:12:08  <frosch123> looks fancy :)
21:12:10  <Elyon> indeed
21:12:27  <Elyon> abstract 'indexing' into a string with a regex :3
21:12:38  <frosch123> don't worry, every language for it's purpose
21:13:02  <Elyon> I must admit the lack of 'switch' was one of the reasons I haven't gotten around to python until just now
21:13:16  <frosch123> i like knowing 20+ languages, and choosing one for each task
21:13:19  <Elyon> but it's okay, if/elif is more powerful anyway
21:13:22  <Elyon> yeah :)
21:13:27  <Elyon> I don't know how many I know
21:13:29  <andythenorth> you’ll get by without switch :)
21:13:35  <Elyon> probably only 7-8 really well
21:13:36  * andythenorth doesn’t know a single language :(
21:13:47  <frosch123> oh, python does not have switch? ... i haven't even noticed that :p
21:13:54  <frosch123> i guess i did not need it for some reason
21:14:06  <Elyon> it's syntactic sugar in highlevel languages anyway
21:14:25  <Elyon> and if you're lacking performance then what are you doing with an interpreted language anyway :p
21:16:17  <Elyon> I just like the `case year; when (1900..2000): puts 'lol last millenium'; else puts 'THE FUTURE IS NOW (or 115 years ago)'; end
21:16:29  <Elyon> that looks hideous as a oneliner
21:16:34  <Elyon> s/;/\n/g
21:17:18  <Elyon> long story short: python is treating me nicely, and I'm not a fangirl
21:17:21  <andythenorth> use the ‘weird’ python ternary ope in that case :)
21:17:28  <andythenorth> for switching two things
21:17:30  <andythenorth> ‘weird’
21:17:32  <Elyon> although I still kind of dread the 'pythonic' term or w/e
21:17:46  <Elyon> I didn't think python had ?:
21:17:49  <frosch123> yeah, the ternery in python is insane
21:17:50  <Elyon> or wait
21:17:55  <andythenorth> I love the python ternary
21:17:58  <frosch123> Elyon: exaclty it does not have ? :
21:18:00  <andythenorth> it works like my brain
21:18:03  <frosch123> it has something silly
21:18:05  * andythenorth is not a programmer
21:18:18  * andythenorth is probably only two steps away from ‘someone who would like perl'
21:18:23  <andythenorth> although I read a perl script once
21:18:30  <frosch123> "condition ? a : b" in various languages -> "a if condition else b" in python
21:18:39  <frosch123> i.e. the condition is between the choices :/
21:18:42  <Elyon> oh that's ... yeah
21:18:53  <Elyon> I've used that syntax in list comprehensions without realising it worked in general
21:18:59  <andythenorth> that’s how my brain works
21:19:21  <andythenorth> we used to use something which is considered hideous apparently
21:19:27  <andythenorth> (a, b)[condition]
21:19:34  <andythenorth> which is neat and terse
21:19:37  <Elyon> considering it's evaluated strictly `condition -> select(a, b)`, that syntax is oddpants
21:20:00  <Elyon> `cond ? a : b` is pretty logical as well, I find
21:20:09  <Elyon> it's basically just `if cond then a else b`
21:20:26  <andythenorth> the tuple thing has caused some other people ‘wtf’ when I write it
21:20:49  <Elyon> ah, yes, tuples <3
21:20:58  <Elyon> lacking in ruby as well
21:21:16  <frosch123> andythenorth: as 'wtf' as when i see something writing "condition == true" ?
21:21:24  <frosch123> *someone
21:21:26  <Elyon> :D
21:21:30  <Elyon> or even worse
21:21:36  <Elyon> if condition == true:
21:21:39  <Elyon>   return true
21:21:43  <Elyon> else: return false
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21:21:58  <frosch123> oh, true, that is also popular :)
21:22:09  <andythenorth> frosch123: that’s usually just a sign of someone who can’t let go of the way from other languages :)
21:22:19  <andythenorth> took me a couple of years to trust that True really is true
21:22:33  <Elyon> or someone who has taken the `intro to programming` course and is ready to conquer the world
21:22:36  <andythenorth> age, experience, application of common sense
21:22:45  <frosch123> andythenorth: the problem is C :p where true is not necessary true
21:22:58  <Elyon> although in fairness, I wrote a program 15 years ago that put 100 empty files on the desktop. It was 100 lines long
21:23:07  <frosch123> if true is != 0, then there can be multiple trues
21:23:26  <Elyon> well most things in c are true
21:23:34  <Elyon> if you include <bool.h> anyway
21:23:40  <Elyon> else no things are true
21:23:54  <Elyon> actually that's wrong
21:24:08  <Elyon> they evaluate to true if used as conditions, but won't compare to `true`
21:26:48  <Elyon> anyway, on with the nml
21:39:50  <andythenorth> :)
21:43:04  <V453000> :)
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22:07:32  <andythenorth> bye
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