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Log for #openttd on 14th January 2015:
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09:04:02  <dihedral> good morning
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09:32:36  *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-179-139.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
09:58:37  <supermop> can snow be added to tropic the same way as to temperate in ogfx+, that is, a setting for arctic which uses tropic sprites? Or will one no longer then be able to have desert/rainforest?
09:59:11  <V453000> what do you mean?
09:59:19  <V453000> ogfx+ snow is in arctic
09:59:23  <V453000> the arctic grass just turns green
09:59:24  <V453000> afaik
09:59:36  <V453000> ah right
09:59:47  <V453000> like having rainforest in the lowlands, deset on the hills
09:59:54  <V453000> doing that with RAWR :)
10:00:56  <supermop> not quite - just a regular tropic map, but with some snow at the top of the mountains
10:01:07  <V453000> I dont think that can be done
10:01:19  <supermop> but i recall that snow and desert use the same bit on the tile
10:01:41  <V453000> since it is the same sprite ID I would assume so too
10:01:55  <supermop> although what you describe would be nice - different placement of the rainforest and desert
10:02:12  <V453000> would/will :P
10:03:55  <supermop> i wish trees hinted at the relief of the land so i could leave them on more
10:04:39  <supermop> as it is they are perfect noise camouflage at high densities, so hills are disguised when covered
10:05:19  <V453000> :D
10:05:57  <supermop> a means of darkening a tree sprite by x% when it is on one of the slopes that is conventionally shaded - ie left side of a hill, would be primative but very helpful
10:06:33  <V453000> mhm
10:06:44  <V453000> kind of valid yes :)
10:06:48  <supermop> better would be for trees to take average slope of their tile over a 3x3 area and shape accordingly
10:06:58  <supermop> but trees cant know this stuff anyway
10:07:01  <V453000> that would be even more awesome :D
10:07:02  <V453000> yes
10:07:03  <supermop> so moot point
10:07:09  <V453000> :)
10:07:21  <V453000> you working on your building set by the way?
10:07:24  <V453000> or something? :P
10:07:46  <supermop> not really modelling for fun lately - been working and trying to do some printmaking
10:07:56  <supermop> but no one is buying the prints
10:08:20  <supermop> i'll either go to a local artist marker or give up entirely
10:08:32  <supermop> i have been documenting a lot though
10:08:43  <supermop> and today brainstorming about drawing pubs
10:09:06  <V453000> interesting :)
10:09:20  <V453000> I will have a landscape newGRF within a week I hope :)
10:09:34  <V453000> well I basically already have it, just some improvements/touches/roads
10:09:50  <supermop> and whether they should be modular or if i should just model 5 or so and leave it at that
10:09:58  <V453000> :)
10:10:34  <supermop> houses gain a lot from modularity, but pubs are more of a landmark so i dont need to have combinatorially many generic pubs
10:10:51  <supermop> better just a few fancy ones and a few basic ones
10:10:57  <V453000> yeah that makes sense
10:11:28  <V453000> I like imagining the research you had to do to inspect pubs
10:11:33  <supermop> also the styles are so different that i dont really want bits of 1890s pubs tacked onto 1920s ones
10:11:39  <supermop> haha
10:11:58  <supermop> of course i will be modelling the interiors and beer taps for accuracy
10:12:36  <supermop> would be great too have a tree line
10:13:06  <supermop> no trees grow above height x, only pine trees above height x-n, etc
10:14:06  <supermop> and pines create more pines nearby, oaks create more oaks nearby
10:14:21  <V453000> XD
10:14:32  <V453000> yeah I guess :)
10:14:37  <V453000> sounds complex though XD
10:14:42  <V453000> all the things trees /could/ doi
10:14:54  <supermop> open tree tycoon
10:15:59  <supermop> why not make your landscape set have bare dirt for the tiles, and grass as a type oof tree
10:16:36  <supermop> always seems silly to me to see rich green grass growing on the forest floor
10:17:11  <V453000> XD
10:17:21  <V453000> so vice versa
10:17:27  <V453000> green grass everywhere
10:17:29  <V453000> trees on brown
10:17:32  <V453000> sounds wtf XD
10:17:44  <V453000> trees are parts of city roads too I think :P
10:18:28  <supermop> grass on the sidewalks is common in many run down american cities
10:19:17  <supermop> and of course the deciduous trees should lose their leaves in winter
10:19:28  <supermop> but all these tree dreams aside
10:19:45  <supermop> are you rendering or drawing your landscape?
10:22:56  <planetmaker> <supermop> can snow be added to tropic the same way as to temperate in ogfx+, that is, a setting for arctic which uses tropic sprites? Or will one no longer then be able to have desert/rainforest? <-- desert and snow tiles share the same sprite ID
10:23:13  <planetmaker> thus you can replace desert by snow, if you desire
10:25:07  <supermop> i feared as much, planetmaker
10:27:03  <supermop> why not have desert by the sea so we can make sand dunes?
10:27:28  <__ln___> and sandworms
10:28:18  <supermop> sure
10:28:36  <planetmaker> supermop, you can do so, in the SE
10:30:54  <planetmaker> except the coast tile itself, though... and why: no-one made OpenTTD understand that :)
10:31:27  <supermop> what about shady trees on the shady side of a hill? how hard is that?
10:32:41  <supermop> the only input my fiance ever has given on openttd is that the trees are too much noise, but when i asked her to write a patch for it she said no way
10:34:48  <supermop> V453000: instead of dirt just add a ring of reddish brown fallen leaves or pineneedles to tree sprites and you'd get an ok approximation of a forest floor
10:46:06  <supermop> ok im off for the evening
10:46:08  <supermop> later
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10:53:33  <b_jonas> yes, it would be nice to have a way to make the trees invisible but still keep their stump visible so I can tell which squares have trees
11:13:38  <V453000> XD
12:01:33  <planetmaker> raaawrrrr!
12:02:33  <planetmaker> V453000, functional features cannot really be done with landscape anyway. And turned into a baseset... that means touching every line anyway ;)
12:02:49  <planetmaker> basesets have different code than newgrfs
12:02:51  <V453000> right :D
12:03:06  <V453000> rawrrr
12:03:13  <planetmaker> but a simple search&replace does the trick, though. Mostly
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12:03:31  <planetmaker> but a baseset simply does not *replace* anything ;)
12:04:18  <V453000> understandable :)
12:04:34  <planetmaker> need a repo? :D
12:05:54  <V453000> nah not yet :)
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12:10:56  <V453000> is there some specific size/stuff of base set sprites how they must look? or is the size of them variable?
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12:11:09  <V453000> like, do I have to have my landscape sprites in some certain boxes/sizes?
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12:29:47  <planetmaker> landscape sprites are landscape sprites
12:29:59  <planetmaker> not sure what you're asking :)
12:31:07  <planetmaker> the sprites have no other requirements than for newgrfs
12:31:13  <V453000> right :)
12:31:27  <V453000> so if I have a sprite sheet for a newGRF, it is just as useful for base set
12:31:42  <planetmaker> yes, spritesheets can be the same
12:31:49  <planetmaker> referencing them looks slightly different
12:31:50  <V453000> grate
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12:33:15  <planetmaker> it's different for vehicles, houses and industries... there are very specific requirements on how to compose them, how many views and construction stages they have
12:35:00  <V453000> that I understand :)
12:35:03  <V453000> sort of :P
12:36:15  <planetmaker> a train wagon either has 8 or 4 views. You can't choose how many it has. Some have 4, others have 8. No choice
12:36:28  <V453000> XD
12:36:39  <V453000> ah right, symmetrical ones
12:36:44  <V453000> thats fine :)
12:37:09  <V453000> but in case industries, if I just replace the parts, and make sure they fit together in all the various possibilities?
12:37:25  <planetmaker> the coal mine has a fixed layout. It has 3 different sprites for the animation of the moving cable. No changing the amount or the tile they're used on
12:37:45  <planetmaker> some industries share ground tiles. They must fit all
12:37:59  <V453000> right
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12:38:42  <V453000> I am already looking at the ogfx-base png that someone linked me to on the forums
12:38:45  <planetmaker> and yes, coal mine, ore smelter, factory... they have different layouts composed from the very same sprites. It must fit for all those
12:38:52  <V453000> for the landscape sprite IDs I replace
12:38:59  <V453000> yez
12:40:08  <planetmaker> in a base set, you also only attach a sprite to each ID for each other sprite, house, vehicle, industry... :) You basically need no intelligent code at all
12:40:23  <planetmaker> the only somewhat intelligent code is in the extra grf of base sets
12:40:38  <planetmaker> which define rivers and signals
12:40:43  <V453000> yeah I saw that too :)
12:40:56  <V453000> all RAWR does is this, too
12:40:56  <V453000>  replace FARM_8_0(4259, "gfx/RAWR_8bpp.png") { template_LANDSCAPE_x1(0,17) } alternative_sprites(FARM_8_0, ZOOM_LEVEL_NORMAL, BIT_DEPTH_32BPP, "gfx/RAWR_0000.png") { template_LANDSCAPE_x1(0,17) } alternative_sprites(FARM_8_0, ZOOM_LEVEL_IN_4X, BIT_DEPTH_32BPP, "gfx/RAWR_0000.png") { template_LANDSCAPE_x4(0,17) }
12:40:59  <V453000> blabla
12:41:29  <planetmaker> V453000, can I have screenies of rawr also in 2x and 1x of the same scenes?
12:41:36  <planetmaker> and maybe 0.5 and 0.25x?
12:41:40  <V453000> sure
12:41:55  <V453000> like zooming out
12:42:05  <V453000> ah, basically all of them
12:42:05  <V453000> sure
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12:42:18  <planetmaker> well, yeah. You know why.... thinking of pota-ghat ;)
12:42:47  <V453000> what are you thinking? :D
12:43:07  <planetmaker> "show me that it looks better" :P
12:44:08  <V453000> well the textures are quite bad at the moment but it is a lot more readable as in what is where :)
12:44:24  <planetmaker> yes, the 4x look excellent
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12:46:48  <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/RAWR/RAWR1_1.png
12:46:50  <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/RAWR/RAWR1_2.png
12:46:52  <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/RAWR/RAWR1_3.png
12:46:54  <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/RAWR/RAWR1_4.png
12:46:57  <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/RAWR/RAWR1_5.png
12:47:04  <V453000> might take a while to get there
12:47:11  <V453000> but there they shall appear
12:48:31  <V453000> should be up :)
12:48:38  <planetmaker> yup :)
12:48:56  <planetmaker> Hm... the / and \ coast lines are slightly too straight for my liking :)
12:48:57  <V453000> about everything is going to look different, but yeah
12:49:04  <planetmaker> the | look much better
12:49:08  <V453000> especially coasts getting re-rendered right now XD
12:49:28  <V453000> actually, getting compiled atm :)
12:50:06  <planetmaker> you also should test with a recent nightly. I saw that frosch activated the totally unused 2nd type of rocks for usage :)
12:50:14  <V453000> new coasts :P
12:50:29  <V453000> yeah,  because I told him that I didnt see the 2nd set of rocks ever used XD
12:50:37  <V453000> atm I got both rocks look the same, but changing that quickly :)
12:50:38  <planetmaker> :D
12:51:02  <V453000> it was complete coincidence, I basically just defined only rocks2, rocks1 were only grass :)
12:51:08  <planetmaker> I thought already of changing that when I made OpenGFX... dunny why I forgot :)
12:51:13  <V453000> :)
12:52:58  <V453000> I have setup a super nice infrastructure which lets me replace e.g. grass everywhere with just a few clicks and about 1.5 hr of rendering/compiling/stuff
12:53:06  <V453000> sooo I might really change a lot of things still :D
12:53:27  <V453000> replacing all grass now :) trying how nice will it be in x1
12:53:37  <V453000> currently the repetitions at x1 are killing it
12:53:41  <V453000> and well not only in x1
12:56:12  <V453000> 1 of 4096 pixels is pure white WARNING WARNING :D
12:56:14  <V453000> yes right
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18:18:41  <Alberth> o/
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18:22:18  <Alberth> \o
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18:34:26  <Negron> Who likes this game ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS-6em18g90
18:34:53  <Alberth> clicking at random urls? nobody
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18:42:11  <Supercheese> Well, at least it's youtube and not some obfuscated tinyurl or whatnot
18:43:23  <Alberth> :)
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18:46:26  <andythenorth> o/
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18:47:26  <Alberth> \o
18:47:46  <V453000> o/
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18:48:14  <Rubidium> ǒ
18:48:14  <Alberth> spiffy new landscape V
18:48:36  <V453000> ty, will be better
18:48:41  <LordAro> https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/2sc7t0/i_made_a_binary_full_adder_using_trains_in_openttd/
18:48:42  <V453000> experimenting a lot
18:48:44  <LordAro> you guys seen this yet?
18:48:57  <V453000> yes
18:48:58  <LordAro> somewhat "old news", but impressive nonetheless
18:49:24  <Alberth> you don't need minecraft to build computers :p
18:49:34  <LordAro> quite :D
18:49:35  <V453000> ^
18:49:36  <Supercheese> will the rawr water be animated or static?
18:49:59  <V453000> probably static
18:50:05  <Supercheese>  :(
18:50:16  <V453000> will see
18:50:22  * Rubidium sees that Supercheese volunteers for making it animated
18:50:25  <V453000> might try to grab wetrail mask
18:50:30  <V453000> see what it does
18:50:41  <V453000> Rubidium is right
18:50:53  <Rubidium> I'm always right...
18:50:57  <Rubidium> ... unless I'm wrong ;)
18:51:16  <Supercheese> could just use the water cycle colors in the mask file
18:51:20  <Supercheese> no idea how that would look though
18:51:33  <V453000> exactly :)
18:51:37  <Supercheese> possibly very bad :(
18:51:45  <V453000> will try my own wetrail water. :)
18:51:52  <V453000> if bad, nogo
18:52:04  <frosch123> LordAro: someone made a complete 24hour cycle digital clock
18:52:18  <LordAro> :o
18:52:25  <V453000> but from what I saw at 8bpp CC mask, :/
18:52:36  <Rubidium> frosch123: how accurate was it? ;)
18:53:22  <frosch123> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkQBGJeh12U <- measure yourself
18:56:02  <frosch123> he, i didn't know we had an official youtube channel with a let's play series :p
18:56:52  <LordAro> what, yogscast? :p
18:57:10  <LordAro> damn, was that livestream 3 years ago now?
18:57:35  <V453000> imposibel
18:57:39  <frosch123> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKP-hM4NbEyZ2_gDGnqDxHg/about <- someone knows that guy? :p
18:57:47  <frosch123> planetmaker: is that related to the g+ group?
18:58:13  <frosch123> hmm, likely
18:59:28  <frosch123> yeah, someone tried to link to every tutorial possible
18:59:52  <frosch123> manual searchbot
19:03:45  <V453000> nice nickname
19:03:46  <V453000> DAMAGE
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19:09:18  <frosch123> V453000: you know how to replace the 3-corners-raised shores?
19:09:50  <V453000> what, that is possible?
19:10:08  <V453000> also can a base set do that?
19:10:24  <frosch123> yes, it's even done for the original basesets in openttd.grf
19:10:36  <V453000> :0
19:10:45  <V453000> is it in the extra grf?
19:10:48  <V453000> or somewhere else
19:10:58  <V453000> in other words which sprite IDs are there?
19:11:04  <frosch123> wrt. what is possibly, you should take a look at ogfx, it does about the maximum a baseset can do
19:11:07  <frosch123> shores, canals, rivers, ...
19:11:24  <V453000> right
19:11:25  <frosch123> V453000: https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Replace_new_sprites
19:12:06  <frosch123> V453000: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/entry/sprites/extra/extra-shores.pnml
19:12:09  <V453000> oh yeah it is in ogfx-extra
19:12:41  <V453000> 2044-2089
19:13:02  <V453000> 2040
19:13:25  <frosch123> you cannot use "replace", you have to use "replace_new"
19:13:32  <frosch123> it does not take numbers in the range 20xx
19:13:44  <V453000> xD
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20:01:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i wonder if there's a irc client plugin that automatically expands tinyurls to their original...
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20:14:42  <dreck> hi
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20:51:42  <FLHerne> dreck: Hi (belatedly)
20:54:36  <dreck> busy with something?
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21:09:10  <FLHerne> Was trying to get the stove to light
21:09:28  <FLHerne> Very windy here, keeps blowing smoke down the chimney :-(
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21:25:29  <dreck> I see :/
21:29:43  <glx> wind should do the opposite
21:30:29  <glx> with venturi effect or something like that
21:33:13  <FLHerne> glx: It's fine when the fire's actually burning ok, but when the air in the flue's still cold it doesn't seem to
21:33:36  <FLHerne> Probably I'm just doing it all wrong, not had this thing very long
21:33:59  <glx> maybe you can close it or something
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22:29:50  <andythenorth> bye
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22:49:59  <naliao> me
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