Log for #openttd on 20th February 2015:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:13:15  <samu> :)
00:14:49  <ST2> o/
00:15:21  <samu> oh
00:15:24  <samu> it's alive
00:15:53  <ST2> was only to test
00:15:56  <ST2> :P
00:16:08  <ST2> but I believe most of the ppl is sleeping now ^^
00:16:14  <samu> what do you code
00:16:28  <samu> do you understand this game code?
00:16:31  <ST2> a bit of all, without knowing much
00:16:34  <samu> i need some help
00:16:50  <ST2> as you could see, busy :)
00:16:55  <samu> oki
00:17:15  <ST2> but helps a bunch if you learn C++ basics
00:21:15  <glx> <samu> how do i build a ship depot that maintains the owner of canals? <-- you can't unless there's enough free bits in the map array
00:21:53  <samu> map array, hmm hmm what
00:21:56  <samu> btw hi
00:24:38  <samu> a free bit
00:24:41  <samu> map array
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00:32:09  <glx> m3 and m4 seem free for MP_WATER tiles
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00:36:21  <glx> hmm no m4 is used
00:38:37  <glx> you can check trunk/docs/landscape.html and trunk/docs/landscape_grid.html
00:40:56  <glx> seems it should be possible to store canal owner for ship depot and docks
00:43:20  <supermop> yo
00:45:48  <glx> and even for locks
00:48:29  <samu> I will try
00:48:50  <Pikka> yo supermop
00:49:59  <samu> at that grid, I look at class 6, it's MP_WATER
00:56:02  <samu> 6 m3?
00:56:48  <samu> m3, m6 and m7?
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02:08:06  <wjdp> Hi I'm trying to work out why some engines cannot be autoreplaced with others. I've read the wiki page but can't seem to find anything.
02:08:46  <wjdp> I cannot autoreplace a CS 4000 (D) with a Centennial (D), the 'Start replacing vehicles' button is greyed out
02:09:01  <wjdp> The game will allow me to replace them with Turner Turbos
02:12:09  <Eddi|zuHause> the replacements cannot be circular, so check whether somewhere you have set a replacement the other way around
02:12:32  <Eddi|zuHause> also check different groups
02:13:26  <wjdp> Ah, it was circular. Thanks!
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03:13:14  <supermop> hi
03:13:33  <supermop> sorry Pikka ran out to buy a coping saw
03:13:41  <Pikka> as one does
03:13:46  <Pikka> how are you coping?
03:16:33  <supermop> i'm doing fine, the saw, not so well
03:17:53  <supermop> lets say i have a white coffee grinder, and it was sold for a few years with a green switch, then a few years with a red switch
03:18:30  <supermop> should the switch be CC? should green and red be specific liveries?
03:20:45  <supermop> i find i have to render all views of a tram simultaneously now with this photometric renderer to get the tones consistent
03:21:20  <supermop> otherwise it lightens up the \ views and darkens the / views
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03:46:37  <supermop> are sprite sheets possible for 32bpp sprites or does each one need to be on its own?
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05:51:33  <supermop> Ok A class is done
05:52:24  <supermop> should I make a spreadsheet somewhere of information about these?
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05:58:24  <chillcore> supermop: about coffeegrinder ...
05:58:45  <chillcore> liveries change over time, company colours do not ;)
05:59:16  <chillcore> if they do it is only because of the player actively changing it
05:59:21  <chillcore> so liveries
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06:06:07  <supermop> ah hmm
06:06:57  <supermop> but - lets say the store had some old griders and then got a new shipment in - if I walk in there i could choose which color I wanted
06:07:26  <supermop> but if i bought an old one with a green switch, i will not rush out to buy a new one with a red one later?
06:08:40  <chillcore> I suppose you code in a mask to be used, given the right offsets and composition
06:09:11  <chillcore> configurable in the newgrf config ... I would not do it using cc
06:13:13  <chillcore> unless ofcourse you want cc to be the choice of colour and not have it change over time ... hmm
06:14:09  <chillcore> can you even overwrite cc? ... questions question ;)
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06:16:53  <Flygon_> It'd be neat to buy a copper bridge or building
06:17:02  <Flygon_> And have it turn Gold to Green
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06:21:45  * chillcore wonders how long it would take the copper thieves ...
06:21:56  <chillcore> would be cool though
06:23:25  <Flygon> But yeah
06:23:33  <Flygon> A Flinders Street Station GRF would be cool
06:23:42  <Flygon> So many people don't know the domes were originally GOLD :D
06:23:53  <Flygon> They turned green in 15 years 'course
06:25:49  <chillcore> them lazy polishers ... :P
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06:40:06  <Pikka> <supermop> are sprite sheets possible for 32bpp sprites or does each one need to be on its own? <-- any format is possible, the sprite definitions in nfo/nml are no different between 8bpp and 32bpp (or normal and ez). But providing sprites the same size / format as you already have would be easiest for me to code :P
06:54:50  <chillcore> them lazy coders ... :P
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07:19:40  * chillcore gets ready to give some more peeps a gentle-ish wake up call ... IRL.
07:19:48  <chillcore> laters all ;)
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07:24:11  <V453000> LOL FUCK ME I had a model of the pillars rotated by 5 degrees by accident XD
07:24:21  <V453000> lets see how it works when done properly :D
07:29:59  <V453000> of course it fixed everything :)
07:35:07  <V453000> nice :> bridges ready to model
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08:11:46  <dihedral> o/
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08:25:04  <V453000> hy
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08:56:40  <planetmaker> moin
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08:58:00  <planetmaker> supermop, to answer your earlier question: 32bpp sprites are treated wrt spritesheets about the same as 8bpp
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09:18:43  <Pikka> chillcore> can you even overwrite cc? ... questions question ;) <- you can apply different recolour sprites via newgrf in 8bpp, don't know about 32bpp. :)
09:19:44  <Pikka> supermop: cc masking is "not too hard" as far as code goes. making the sprites line up and look nice is where it gets painful. :)
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09:33:53  <Celestar> gday
09:45:55  <Pikka> g'day cobber
09:47:46  <V453000> hyyyyy
10:22:07  <V453000> supermop: just see NUTS / RAWR repository ... I have way larger sprite sheets than one might consider healthy :D
10:39:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i think "healthy" is probably long out of the window by the time you join this channel :p
10:49:29  <V453000> good
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11:01:43  <chillcore> Pikka: I forgot about that black company colour newgrf for a minute. Thx. another question still remains ... can I overwrite the company mask for a specific sprite instead of all via newgrf? not that I would do this but would be nice to know
11:02:50  <peter1138> company mask?
11:03:39  <chillcore> supermop wanted to know about different liveries or cc for sprite choice.
11:03:52  <chillcore> o/
11:04:10  <Pikka> yes, you can.
11:04:19  <peter1138> Um
11:04:30  <peter1138> Just do CC properly ;(
11:04:43  <Pikka> see, for example, the multicoloured boxcars in NARS or the "real world" UKRS liveries.
11:05:09  <chillcore> the log is not long peter ;) and yes I agree
11:05:19  <Pikka> RGBCC, peter1138?
11:05:42  <peter1138> Still a patch around for that somewhere...
11:06:30  <chillcore> 4:46 today peter ... if you are curious that is. anyhoo
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11:08:15  <peter1138> Right
11:09:45  <chillcore>
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11:26:11  * chillcore ponders throwing in negative nrs at some point ... later, much, much later :P
11:55:41  <chillcore> hmm strange things happen when your mind drifts away ... I was thinking ... a find Waldo minigame. his hat can be in 'magic' company colours and has a counter on how many times you found him.
11:55:54  <chillcore> only available on those really special days
11:56:34  <chillcore> back to not drifting mode
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12:31:03  <NGC3982> Is there any reason shared tracks are not yet implemented?
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12:32:13  <planetmaker> time, effort and mostly the indecision on how to treat the interaction in edge cases: who is in control of a train? what to do during bancruptcy?
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12:32:50  <__ln___> NGC3982: in short, unwillingness to have shared tracks.
12:33:20  <NGC3982> I see.
12:33:24  <planetmaker> I'd not say that, __ln___
12:33:43  <NGC3982> Thanks.
12:35:36  <__ln___> shared tracks are not a new idea, and if there was true desire to implement them, it would have been done already in the past 11 years.
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12:36:49  <Pikka> shared tracks are implemented perfectly well: just play in the same company.
12:37:23  <__ln___> that's what i do because there is no alternative.
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12:40:07  <V453000> shared tracks just have so many disadvantages
12:40:18  <V453000> you need to be able to stop, reroute, ... the trains which run on your tracks
12:44:12  <__ln___> sure, but all this could have been resolved in 11 years.
12:44:53  <V453000> it is solved as Pikka says
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12:53:38  <andythenorth> o/
12:56:44  <V453000> \o
12:57:34  <Pikka> o?
13:03:32  <andythenorth> no rains of frogs?
13:04:01  <Pikka> not at the moment. calm before the frogs.
13:05:24  <andythenorth> huzzah
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13:07:29  <Pikka> still looking for jobs, I thought things would pick up a bit after the election/australia day, but they haven't...
13:07:37  <andythenorth> :|
13:09:15  <Pikka> If I depart Karawatha at 1500Hrs is it possible to be on time for a 1525Hrs departure from Ferny Grove?
13:10:44  <Pikka> - almost tempted to apply, except I can't into full-time work. :)
13:11:53  <andythenorth> ha
13:12:27  <planetmaker> he :)
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13:14:47  <Pikka> the answer to that question btw is "no, unless there's no-one else available in which case head on up mate and let me know when you're nearly there".
13:14:56  <planetmaker> Pikka, I find that actually a clever question to add in that place :)
13:15:25  <planetmaker> I don't parse your answer, though
13:16:09  <andythenorth> “no you can’t make it any time, but it might be better to go anyway and be late, rather than not go at all"
13:16:15  <andythenorth> any / in /s
13:16:23  <andythenorth> this typing problem of mine is getting ridiculous
13:16:53  <V453000> make pixels not letters
13:17:02  <andythenorth> bloody pixels
13:17:17  * andythenorth invents TrainDoom
13:17:21  <planetmaker> ok, I can understand that sentence. Thanks, andythenorth :)
13:17:23  <andythenorth> it’s like Doom, but with trains
13:17:31  <Pikka> sounds like a sure-fire winner
13:17:40  <V453000> good
13:17:50  <andythenorth> what is gameplay?
13:17:59  <chillcore> club doom
13:18:54  * andythenorth probably can’t spend a year making a really nice little mobile transport game, to sell for £3.99
13:19:03  <andythenorth> but /me can spend since 2008 making FIRS :P
13:19:08  <andythenorth> how odd
13:19:08  <V453000> well if you sell a million copies :)
13:19:56  <andythenorth> no pay-to-play, no DLC; straight-forward shareware like Doom, 1/3 of the game is free, the other 2/3 paid for
13:20:36  <V453000> better make a good decision which 1/3rd is which :P
13:20:56  <andythenorth> no badges, no level up, no ‘log in to facebook to share with your friends'
13:21:00  <andythenorth> all this crap
13:21:11  <chillcore> +1
13:21:11  <Pikka> andythenorth, I have the trains if you have the game :)
13:21:16  <andythenorth> no game yet
13:21:38  <chillcore> achievments are cool though
13:21:39  <andythenorth> just because all the casual games companies (and EA) are doing pay-to-play and DLC, doesn’t make it right
13:21:57  <andythenorth> my five year old plays casual games incessantly, but loves Minecraft and OpenTTD the most
13:22:12  <b_jonas> good
13:22:22  <V453000> dont make him see Factorio
13:22:42  <V453000> it is even better than minecraft and even more wtf-it-is-half-past-five-in-the-morning-again
13:23:02  <andythenorth> half-past-five is getting up time V453000
13:23:13  <andythenorth> I see more half-past-five than you would want to :|
13:23:15  <V453000> yes or going to bed if you are playing factorio
13:23:30  * andythenorth wonders when V453000 will have children
13:23:37  <V453000> in a couple of years most likely
13:23:37  <andythenorth> and if they will get 3D-printed slugs
13:23:38  <V453000> 2-3
13:23:47  <andythenorth> have you considered 3D printing any NUTS models?
13:23:51  <V453000> eh, we have snails as pets :P african snails
13:24:06  <V453000> nope, it isnt like I have any solid 3D models for NUTS yet anyway
13:24:56  <V453000> you should get your kids a giant snail as wel
13:25:01  <V453000> it is a perfect pet
13:25:16  <V453000> no noise, no mess, is quite funny, can be taken in hand
13:25:21  <V453000> kids love them
13:25:38  <V453000> and you can hope you can avoid the "dad I want a dog" case XD
13:31:38  <andythenorth> here’s one I made earlier
13:31:45  <andythenorth> long time since I made that :P
13:32:18  <V453000> :D
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13:49:20  <andythenorth> hmm
13:49:33  <andythenorth> 5 year old took my laptop away to play that game
13:49:37  <andythenorth> just got him off it
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14:13:42  <samu> hi
14:16:08  <V453000> hmmmmmmmmmmm
14:16:21  <V453000> is there any actual reason to make the "bottom" sprites of bridges reduced by anything?
14:16:32  <V453000> since the only thing visible in those "reduced" parts is the overlay anyway
14:20:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand the question
14:20:37  <Eddi|zuHause> what is "reduced"?
14:22:28  <V453000> imagine rendered bridge
14:22:37  <V453000> that is the main sprite, below trains
14:22:47  <V453000> then there is the overlay, a cut out part to be on top of vehicles
14:23:10  <V453000> so I am wondering if there is any reason to make the main sprite without the overlay
14:23:13  <V453000> I think not
14:23:26  <V453000> in fact it is easier not to do that since I need the shadows/whatever from it anyway
14:25:09  <planetmaker> you can draw the main sprite as the full bridge, yes
14:25:26  <planetmaker> then draw tracks on top, draw vehicles on top, and then the overlay
14:25:49  <planetmaker> the tricky part is to cut appropriately that the overlay is really what's on top and foreground only :)
14:26:28  <V453000> nah that isnt so hard :)
14:39:46  <samu> marktiledirty, is this only for painting? can it change who owns the tile?
14:43:30  <samu> im gonna try
14:45:07  <samu> MakeShipDepot(tile,  _current_company, depot->index, DEPOT_PART_NORTH, axis, wc1);
14:46:02  <samu> I need to keep the owner of the canal tile a ship depot is built upon
14:46:20  <planetmaker> samu, that's a painting function
14:46:36  <planetmaker> marktiledirty
14:47:10  <samu> if for example, canal owner is self, then ship depot belongs to self, and canal still belongs to self
14:47:27  <samu> if canal owner is competitor, then ship depot belongs to self, and canal tile belongs to competitor
14:47:45  <samu> if canal owner is neutral, ship depot belongs to self, canal tile belongs to neutral
14:47:50  <samu> how am I to do this
14:48:17  <samu> then upon removing ship depot, same rules apply
14:48:31  <samu> removes depot, maintains canal owner
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14:49:45  <samu> even if owner is self
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14:52:39  <samu> glx told me about tile array
14:52:44  <samu> but no idea what he means
14:52:52  <samu> free bits, tile array
14:54:04  <samu> i have the impression i need to store extra information in some free bit, but I don't really know how to do it
14:54:29  * chillcore weekends
14:54:32  <samu> tried reading the documentation, but I don't understand "bit" "byte"
14:54:49  <chillcore> samu you are making it way too complicated maybe?
14:55:32  <chillcore> your goal is to have river tiles to always be rivertiles when things are unbuilt? right?
14:55:49  <chillcore> except when terraforming is involved
14:56:26  <samu> there is a "bug" when I build a ship depot on a canal with no owner
14:56:39  <samu> the canal becomes yours
14:56:43  <samu> I don't want that to happen
14:57:09  <samu> the canal owner is supposed to be unchanged
14:57:38  <chillcore> hmm they could become owner none like bridges maybe yes ...
14:57:52  <samu> i also want to allow ship depots to be built on competitors' canals
14:58:03  <samu> it currently doesn't let me do that
14:58:11  <samu> says owned by competitor
14:58:15  <chillcore> there is a road setting for that ... maybe have a look at stealing code
14:58:55  <samu> too complex for me without guidance
14:59:11  <samu> i looked upon a similar case with road stops
14:59:21  <samu> but that code is toooooo large for me to follow
15:00:44  <chillcore> I don't understand half neither ;) the trees become forest in time
15:01:15  <samu> building a bus stop on a competitor road is currently possible
15:01:26  <samu> building a ship depot on a competitor canal is not
15:01:33  <samu> and that's what I'm trying to do
15:01:50  <chillcore> maybe open a FS# then if there is none already
15:02:01  <samu> oh, so I won't work on this code?
15:02:04  <samu> keks
15:02:05  <samu> ok
15:02:23  <chillcore> you are the tester and you see behaviour
15:03:24  <samu> i can see a problem when attempting to come with a fix
15:03:41  <samu> how would the depot owner be able to remove that depot?
15:04:16  <samu> to remove a bus stop on a competitor road, demolish button won't let me do it
15:04:51  <chillcore> hmm depot ... no that is not a vry good idea ... I thought you meant harbour ... you are comparing ships with depots
15:05:08  <samu> but it can be removed with the "toggle remove" button
15:05:14  <chillcore> station I mean instead of ships
15:05:20  <samu> there is no "toggle remove" button for swater construction
15:05:26  <samu> water*
15:07:08  <samu> I could report this as a bug, but it's probably not a bug as it stands right now
15:07:17  <samu> it's more like an omission
15:09:03  <samu> maybe report as feature request?
15:09:10  <samu> how do I report this?
15:10:01  <samu> you've mention stations, well, dock behaves similar to depot
15:10:24  <samu> if the canal is from a competitor, I can't build a dock there
15:11:03  <samu> if the canal has no owner, building a dock will make that canal become yours
15:11:37  <chillcore> hmm feature request maybe yes, it is possible be that it was overlooked but there may be a very valid reason I don't know about.
15:11:40  <samu> removing the dock afterwards you notice that canal as being yours
15:12:07  <chillcore> that is a bugreport
15:12:17  <chillcore> make it seperate from the other ;)
15:13:22  <samu> while it's separate, they are all tied together in the end, but ok
15:13:31  <samu> gonna report, brb
15:13:37  <chillcore> Thank you
15:21:30  <samu> interesting, buoys can be built on competitor canals
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15:41:59  <Alberth> hi hi
15:43:33  <planetmaker> hihi
15:45:04  <NGC3982> hiya
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16:07:11  <samu>
16:07:29  <DanMacK> @seen andythenorth
16:07:29  <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 2 hours, 17 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <andythenorth> just got him off it
16:16:40  <samu> and now... I'm stuck! I don't know what to do
16:18:46  <samu> wait for a bug fix?
16:19:28  <planetmaker> samu, canals usually do have an owner
16:19:39  <planetmaker> they only can have owner 'none', if its owner bancrupts
16:19:52  <planetmaker> thus if you claim the canal, it's just fair that you then pay for it, too
16:20:20  <samu> you entered the loop
16:20:41  <samu> it's not consistent with the other parts
16:21:50  <planetmaker> 1.2 might be considered a bug, though
16:22:12  <planetmaker> as it also has potential to cause griefing
16:22:48  <planetmaker> anyhow, now that you spend so much time on this issue: why not write the bug fix(es) yourself?
16:23:10  <planetmaker> each of the issues as a nice, small, separate fix.
16:23:25  <planetmaker> don't invent the jack-of-all-trades fix. keep it small, keep it simple. one step at a time
16:24:31  <samu> i heard i need a map tile array free bit something like that
16:24:37  <samu> to store owners
16:24:56  <samu> but i dunno how to proceed
16:24:57  <planetmaker> water should have plenty
16:26:05  <planetmaker> file:///home/$USER/ottd-trunk/docs/landscape_grid.html <-- that link won't work for you, but there you find bit info for tile types
16:26:47  <samu> yes, i've looked at it, but really, no idea what I can do with that information
16:28:37  <planetmaker> it tells you which parts are still free to store owner info.
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17:18:54  <samu> if (!Depot::CanAllocateItem()) return CMD_ERROR; - is this the problem?
17:19:31  <samu> it doesn't let me build a ship depot on canals owned by competitor, is this where it originates the error?
17:19:56  <samu> how does the game know which depot is it gonna build?
17:20:03  <samu> there are many depots
17:21:29  <Alberth> that only happens if there are tooooo many depots
17:22:09  <Alberth> ie there is no room to store another in memory, or you ran into some limit
17:22:29  <Alberth> shouldn't happen in practice
17:25:29  <samu> hmm
17:26:46  <samu> assertion error when i disable that line
17:27:08  <Alberth> bad idea
17:27:38  <samu> line 139 of core\pool_func.hpp
17:27:50  <Alberth> assertions check things that should never ever happen, or the code will do bad things
17:28:03  <samu> hmm, then how do I allow it to build?
17:28:27  <Alberth> thus if you manage to trigger it, you made a mistake somewhere, or it is a bug in the code
17:29:05  <Alberth> you solve assertions by failing to trigger them, ie fix the code so it passes the check
17:30:27  <samu> this->checked != 0
17:30:27  <samu> no idea
17:30:28  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: if that line causes your error, then you probably have an endless recursion or something
17:30:55  <Eddi|zuHause> (i mean the allocate line)
17:31:28  <samu> ok, bringing back the line
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17:33:35  <samu> wanna change the behaviour
17:35:02  <samu> struct Depot
17:36:20  * chillcore gives a shoutout to Apple Support
17:36:35  <chillcore> Thank you. Kimberly ;)
17:37:02  <samu> okay, I navigated into depot_base.h
17:37:11  <samu> game is treating road, train and ship depots as equal
17:37:41  <samu> ship depots are to become different
17:37:45  <samu> how do I separate
17:38:20  <samu> want to let them to be built on any canal, no matter the owner
17:39:28  <Alberth> can a competitor ship pass through a depot?
17:39:35  <samu> yes
17:39:47  <samu> it currently does that already
17:39:55  <Alberth> ok, that's good
17:40:23  <samu> let me verify, just in case...
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17:41:25  <samu> verified, it can
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17:45:28  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27156 trunk/src/lang/traditional_chinese.txt (2015-02-20 17:45:21 UTC)
17:45:29  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:30  <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 1 changes by siu238X
17:48:56  <samu> ah, i found something
17:49:03  <samu> static inline void MakeShipDepot(TileIndex t, Owner o, DepotID did, DepotPart part, Axis a, WaterClass original_water_class)
17:49:23  <samu> water_map.h
17:49:27  <samu> line...
17:49:33  <samu> 427
17:50:07  <samu> so that's where I can store owners?
17:50:23  <Eddi|zuHause> a griefer could still place the depot 90° rotated to block a canal
17:51:16  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: yes. but you also need to adapt the functions that read the owner
17:51:56  <Eddi|zuHause> (or add a new one, like GetDepotOwner(tile))
17:54:02  <chillcore> hmm could you destroy someone elses depot on your canal, with everything in it, too?
17:54:32  <chillcore> just thinking out loud ...
17:56:24  <samu> no
17:56:50  <samu> actually
17:57:07  <samu> it's not even possible to build a depot on someone's else canal
17:57:18  <samu> exception is if the canal has no owner
17:57:36  <samu> but that turns the canal as yours
17:58:03  <Eddi|zuHause> well, one problem could be that once someone built a depot on your canal, you can't remove the canal anymore to save maintenance
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17:59:37  <samu> that's fine i guess, a road stop on competitor road does that correctly
17:59:40  <samu> should behave the same for ship depot
18:00:42  <samu> road maintenance belongs to competitor, station belongs to self
18:00:59  <b_jonas> how easily can you block a canal by builing a ship depot orthogonally?
18:03:33  <chillcore> make canal three wide, build, unwiden canal, plonk stuffs down?
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18:04:24  <Eddi|zuHause> very
18:04:56  <samu> i intend to cheapen canal build costs
18:05:56  <samu> 5000 is such a huge number
18:05:56  <samu> i've been toying with a price of 625
18:05:57  <Eddi|zuHause> that will probably need a newgrf
18:05:57  <samu> base price
18:06:05  <samu> so, in the source code?
18:06:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, you won't convince a dev to include that in the game
18:07:38  <samu> what can go wrong with that?
18:07:43  <samu> compatibility?
18:08:16  <Eddi|zuHause> has nothing to do with that
18:08:47  <chillcore> tastes colours ... you can use/make a base cost newgrf and do whatever you please. much simpler samu
18:09:03  <chillcore> other opinions are available ;)
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18:10:55  <samu> what about default game?
18:11:14  <Alberth> what about it?
18:11:34  <chillcore> if values are way off then ofcourse adjustments are welcome ;) I guess
18:11:59  <Alberth> chillcore: if only we could get agreement on "way off" :)
18:12:01  <chillcore> But yeah what Alberth said ...
18:12:23  <samu> for default ships, i think it's way off
18:12:48  <samu> especially aqueducts
18:12:53  <Alberth> I don't remember having problems with it
18:13:41  <Alberth> how can you have any problem? it's trivial to make loads of money in default game
18:14:15  <Alberth> and it's always nice if you make some things feasible later in the game
18:15:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i somewhat agree that canals are a bit expensive
18:15:12  <Alberth> imagine what happens if you get the final train/ship/aircraft/RV, and nothing after it
18:15:15  <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. when you're in 1870 and want to start out with ships
18:15:25  <Alberth> in default game? :p
18:15:37  <glx> same IRL I think
18:15:58  <Eddi|zuHause> canals were popular way before railways were
18:17:24  <samu> default game, i mean starting in 1950~75, minimum 1920
18:17:40  <samu> hell, even 2050
18:18:33  <samu> having a max loan of 100k
18:18:44  <samu> and the terrain being all land
18:18:57  <samu> start with ships in such a scenario
18:19:01  <glx> enough to start a coal line
18:19:31  <samu> there's too many hard costs for such a route
18:19:46  <samu> canals, terraform, aqueduct
18:19:52  <samu> and the ship itself
18:20:06  <samu> it's on this position that I am trying to re-evaluate prices
18:21:49  <samu> reusing rivers is good if they exist
18:22:27  <samu> but it's too easy for some competitor demolish a river tile
18:23:07  <samu> lowering canal costs should compensate for that
18:23:47  <samu> demolishing rivers will still maintain their price, so it won't be abused
18:23:54  <samu> 10000
18:24:05  <chillcore> best anti-grief is playing with friends ;)
18:37:11  <samu> how are you going to solve the bug/issue?
18:37:19  <samu> or I
18:37:46  <samu> there's different solutions
18:38:48  <samu> i'd prefer to have it similar to how bus stops on competitor roads implementation works
18:39:17  <samu> makes sense
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18:41:27  <samu> it just works and the approach makes sense
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18:54:40  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- well that about sums up my knowledge of physics...
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19:02:32  <Wolf01> hello o/
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19:14:41  <samu> :(
19:22:51  <samu> GetDepotOwner(tile)
19:23:21  <samu> no results found
19:23:26  <samu> ;(
19:23:53  <chillcore> hmm sentences that start with "in general ..." grrr
19:24:16  <chillcore> samu try without '(tile)' ?
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19:24:46  <andythenorth> has cat been seen?
19:25:25  <samu> GetDepotOwner - no results
19:25:32  <samu> have to create this function?
19:25:45  <samu> :(
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19:27:56  <chillcore> @seen cat
19:27:56  <DorpsGek> chillcore: I have not seen cat.
19:28:32  <chillcore> thank you DorpsGek ... had to try that once at least :P
19:30:20  <andythenorth> remains a mystery
19:31:10  * andythenorth fails to recode FIRS
19:31:31  <andythenorth> short on motivation
19:31:41  <andythenorth> refactored 3 newgrfs this week
19:34:00  <Alberth> 4th one should be a piece of cake then?
19:34:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i have seen a cat or two today
19:35:23  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: maybe read again what i said?
19:35:46  <samu> i was reading that
19:35:54  <samu> where do i create that thing
19:35:54  <Eddi|zuHause> so, what was i saying?
19:36:28  <samu> addapt the functions, or create a new fucntion
19:37:00  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. and then i made a suggestion about a function name
19:37:24  <Eddi|zuHause> and new things generally go where existing things already are that are somewhat similar
19:37:31  <andythenorth> eh FIRS is so much bigger than the others :P
19:37:45  <andythenorth> acres of python modules, python templates, and cpp templates
19:38:17  <andythenorth> poorly architected
19:38:23  <samu> "also have to adapt the functions that read the owner"
19:39:09  <samu> i know i need to put something on this file
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19:39:17  <samu> about m3?
19:39:24  <samu> which is free
19:40:27  <Eddi|zuHause> well it becomes not-free once you write something in it
19:40:37  <Eddi|zuHause> and when you write something in it, you also need to read it
19:40:42  <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise why bother writing it?
19:41:32  <samu> i dont know what to do
19:41:41  <Eddi|zuHause> my computer science room in school had a painting on it, which featured, amongst others, a "write only memory", which was a crocodile eating crates that were shoved in its direction
19:42:20  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: the point is not about knowing what to do, but asking the right questions (to yourself) to find out what to do
19:42:53  <samu> so what is the question i should be asking :(
19:42:58  <samu> 	_m[t].m3 = 0;
19:43:10  <samu> that 0 is to be altered
19:43:19  <samu> to, I have no idea what
19:43:19  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
19:43:30  <Eddi|zuHause> to the owner that you want to store, of course
19:44:10  <Eddi|zuHause> the owner is currently stored somewhere else, where it overwrites the canal owner
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19:44:30  <Eddi|zuHause> you take that away, and introduce it somewhere else
19:47:20  <glx> using accessors
19:47:42  <glx> cleaner than directly writing in _m[]
19:48:52  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: that is in the accessor
19:49:38  <samu> im at line 433 of water_map.h
19:49:43  <samu> if you're wondering
19:50:53  <glx> MakeShipDepot is not an accessor :)
19:51:53  <samu> replace that 0 to... owner of the water
19:52:10  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: then your opinion and my opinion on what an accessor is differ
19:52:25  <glx> you need something similar to SetTileOwner
19:52:37  <glx> and use it there
19:53:38  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: it's an helper function for me :)
19:54:16  <samu> tile_map.h ?
19:55:13  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: that is borderline nitpicking
19:55:18  <glx> SetTileOwner is in tile_map.h yes, but I think SetCanalOwner (or something like that) should be in water_map.h
19:55:52  <glx> with of course the necessary checks to ensure it's applied only to the appropriate tiles
19:59:28  <samu> static inline TileIndex GetShipDepotNorthTile(TileIndex t)
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20:00:59  <samu> static inline WaterTileType GetWaterTileType(TileIndex t)
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20:14:23  <samu> static inline void MakeCanal(TileIndex t, Owner o, uint8 random_bits)
20:14:30  <samu> there's only a MakeCanal
20:16:13  <samu> MakeCanal points to MakeWater
20:17:28  <samu> static inline void MakeWater(TileIndex t, Owner o, WaterClass wc, uint8 random_bits) {
20:17:41  <samu> 	_m[t].m3 = 0;
20:17:44  <samu> line 380
20:17:46  <samu> so it's here?
20:21:31  <samu> what is the question i should be asking
20:21:36  <samu> he
20:23:12  <glx> no SetCanalOwner (or whatever) is the function you need to write
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20:34:50  <andythenorth> hmm
20:34:51  <andythenorth> bed time
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21:25:43  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:49:03  <chillcore> goodnight
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21:59:05  <Eddi|zuHause> good fight
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