Log for #openttd on 4th April 2015:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:30  <chillcore> but I'll test a new game ... first checking config to see if turn time is at 255
00:02:02  <chillcore> wait time*
00:02:27  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: there is now a separate setting for "never turn around at signals"
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00:02:40  <chillcore> hmm there is?
00:02:55  <Eddi|zuHause> it should be in the GUI
00:03:06  <chillcore> thank you
00:03:08  <Eddi|zuHause> (at least that was the point of adding the setting)
00:03:40  <chillcore> path_backoff_interval?
00:03:45  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: no
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00:04:07  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: that is the interval which a train waits before checking whether the signal is green again
00:04:42  <chillcore> oh ok ... I'll check the gui Eddi|zuHause
00:05:08  <chillcore> probably easier ... my congig has all kinds of non trunk settings
00:05:54  <Eddi|zuHause> who are you telling that. my openttd always complains about invalid setting "weekly" for autosave interval :p
00:06:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i even got a patch into trunk that fixed "use the default value instead of disabling the setting completely"
00:11:42  <chillcore> hehe
00:12:24  <chillcore> looking at flyspray now to find that ticket ... I had a minimal setup to reproduce the waiting forever thinghy
00:21:11  <supermop> i wonder what the best way to make these tracks dingy would bee
00:21:38  <supermop> im thinking ad a translucent surface over the concrete
00:27:14  <chillcore> here it is Eddi|zuHause #FS3908
00:27:23  <chillcore> testing now to see
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00:39:30  <chillcore> tracks dingy? what is that exactly supermop?
00:39:45  <supermop> dirty
00:40:05  <chillcore> ah ok ... yeah layer maybe
00:40:15  <supermop> like grime, oil, dirt around the concrete in bottom of platform bay
00:40:24  <chillcore> the you can have more of them and combine ;)
00:40:29  <chillcore> then*
00:40:30  <supermop> trash and rats
00:40:35  <chillcore> hehe
00:40:45  <chillcore> animated rats I hope :P
00:40:54  <supermop> i miss watching the subway rats
00:42:22  <chillcore> we don't have subways here ... plenty of riverbeds though
00:43:02  <chillcore> hmm riverbanks?
00:46:07  <efess> is there a way to query if the game is currently paused with rcon/console?
00:47:01  <Eddi|zuHause> river bed is the thing under the river :p
00:47:24  <Eddi|zuHause> river bank is the thing on the side of the river :p
00:48:05  <Eddi|zuHause> efess: sounds like something the admin port should be able to do?
00:48:34  <efess> that would be even better :D
00:48:46  <supermop> experimenting with what goes between two tracks in a station
00:49:02  <chillcore> yeah then it is banks Eddi|zuHause, thank you
00:49:12  <chillcore> supermop: a crocodile
00:49:14  <supermop> in real life i normally just see flat concrete but that looks boring in renders
00:49:35  <chillcore> and signal boxes
00:49:38  <supermop> so thinking of gutter or raised area
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00:50:01  <supermop> yes in the subway it is full of cable conduit, signals, etc
00:50:08  <chillcore> indeed
00:50:14  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: sound-damping equipment?
00:50:38  <supermop> what do you mean eddi?
00:50:48  <supermop> like acoustical foam?
00:50:53  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: like i think in berlin main station (lower part) they have that
00:51:12  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: some square thingies with a riffled surface
00:51:31  <supermop> founds fancy
00:51:54  <supermop> maybe i'll wait until openttd townsfolk complain about the noise!
00:52:26  <supermop> sometimes you see a fence to discourage people from running across tracks
00:52:51  <supermop> but i've only seen that at low platforms in rural areas on with light rail
00:53:12  <supermop> gutter has the same issue as TTD style monorail: the negative space at edge of tile
00:53:43  <supermop> could have the gutter end in a tall drain grate at tile edge
00:53:53  <supermop> but then you get too many drains
00:54:36  <Eddi|zuHause> these are all things the original zoom levels can just fudge over :p
00:54:44  <supermop> yes
00:55:01  <supermop> and just a few pixels noise and let the imagination fill in!
00:55:46  <supermop> the plain base set concrete tile would look fine as station rail bed in 1x zoom
00:56:19  <supermop> the monorail still has me in a dilemma
00:57:03  <supermop> there are few enough EZ monorail tracks out there i feel like i could get away with breaking the rules and do TTO style
00:57:21  <supermop> but TTD style has its dubious benefits
00:58:11  <supermop> in that it looks better with uniform platform heights, can have a monorail train be 'tall' without being too tall...
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00:58:46  <supermop> masking the negative tile edge will be a real pain though
00:59:16  <Eddi|zuHause> well, imho monorail should be taller than normal rails, because the train is meant to "grab" around it, instead of running on top of it
00:59:39  <supermop> TTO style would need offsets to be changed for existing trains if going to tto style
00:59:43  <supermop> yes
00:59:58  <supermop> irl a modern alweg beam is 1500mm tall
01:00:02  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the transrapid track set fudges around it
01:00:09  <supermop> plus clearance beneath
01:00:28  <Eddi|zuHause> what's alweg?
01:00:57  <supermop> modern monorails are about twice as tall as regular trains if you count the part below the train floor that goes around the beam
01:01:25  <supermop> german company that invented the concrete beam monorail and was later bought by hitachi
01:02:04  <Eddi|zuHause> most people underestimate the height of trains, because they think of them as from the platform up, or when inside from the floor to the roof
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01:02:31  <supermop> they have a small version used in seattle, disney, and tokyo monorail line
01:02:45  <supermop> but all newer ones since the 80s are very tall
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01:03:01  <Eddi|zuHause> but there's a whole meter below that
01:03:26  <supermop>
01:03:36  <supermop> look how high the doors are on that
01:04:37  <Eddi|zuHause> so if the monorail is 1.5m below the platform, that is only like 0.5m more than a train
01:04:39  <supermop> you've got more that 2500mm from bottom of vehicle before you even get to the floor
01:04:54  <supermop> hmm
01:05:24  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: a train would probably reach to that yellow area on the sides
01:06:11  <supermop> i've compromised and done 800mm from railhead to platform  in these stations so far
01:06:26  <supermop> becuase it looked more 'right'
01:06:49  <supermop> but many systems around the world are 1100-1300 mm
01:07:10  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. suburban trains often use higher platform height
01:07:18  <supermop> i could sink the regular rails down a bit more
01:07:42  <supermop> then the difference between rail and monorail would be less severe
01:07:46  <Eddi|zuHause> where older train systems might even use 30cm
01:08:18  <supermop> in the us it is sometmes 0 on amtrack in rural areas
01:08:23  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: i would maybe shrink the monorails a bit
01:08:38  <supermop> and then set little step stools outside the doors
01:09:01  <supermop> the station is just an asphalt tramway area with lines painted
01:09:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i know here in the region they had difficulties buying new trains and make them "barrier free", because besides the standardized 76cm they also have platforms of ca. 55cm and 35cm
01:09:42  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: i would but i cant control how others may or may not draw their monorails
01:09:49  <Eddi|zuHause> and it has to be barrier free on all of them
01:10:31  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: don't care about others. make it look decent with the default trains, and you should be fine
01:10:33  <supermop> yes its is a problem in the us as all new transit must be ADA compatible - means wheelchair accessable
01:11:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i think they settled on entrances at the 55cm height, with some metal plate that can stick out and raise/lower to 35 and 76
01:11:37  <supermop> chicago is scrapping loads of fairly good 80's L cars because they have a center pillar in the doors which cannot be removed structurally
01:11:48  <Eddi|zuHause> to close the gap
01:12:02  <Eddi|zuHause> but these things are notoriously unreliable and cause delays
01:12:35  <supermop> yes you see in suburban amtrak and commuter stations a metal bridge that station staff use in areas where they can not yet afford to build new platforms and buy new cars
01:12:51  <Eddi|zuHause> in Stuttgart they ordered similar trains, but they had to withdraw them again, because their incredibly tight schedule just didn't hold up
01:12:55  <supermop> and in rural areas they must use a portable lft
01:13:19  <supermop> lift
01:13:40  <supermop> well i am already cheating drawing my stations at 8m per tile
01:13:51  <Flygon_> Scrap? Why not sell them to some other metro system?
01:13:53  *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
01:14:06  <Flygon> Knowing Melbourne, we would probably somehow turn them into DMU HSTs :B
01:14:35  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: electric trains with 160km/h top speed?
01:15:03  <Flygon> Diesel trains with a nominal 160km/h top speed
01:15:04  <supermop> if most people draw trains at 12m per tile, then the monorail gets some cheating help
01:15:05  <Flygon> But, like
01:15:19  <Flygon> Everything here has 20% lobbed of it's actual top speed :U
01:15:25  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: my trains are based on 32m per tile scale
01:15:51  <supermop> as i can draw a trench 1600mm deep and it is 2400mm deep for more standard trains
01:16:04  <supermop> just enough to fit a monorail bogie?
01:16:06  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: well, over here, trains are tested with 10% above top speed
01:16:31  <Flygon> Eddi: It's... well, a really weird situation, across the entire country
01:16:39  <supermop> Flygon: the L cars are probably too specific to find a buyer for
01:16:43  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: schedukes are probably done with slightly lower speed
01:17:18  <supermop> third rail short cars with odd loading gauge due to tight corners
01:17:19  <Flygon> The VLocity DMUs have been (unofficially) tested around 220-230km/h (albiet, at that speed, they vibrated a bit TOO much, and other anectdotal evidence suggests it was a very unnerving ride. But this is all second hand reports, here, so, use a lot of salt)
01:17:30  <Flygon> supermop: Okay, I see the issue...
01:17:46  <Flygon> But they're only suppose to run 160km/h anyway, as the official speed limit...
01:17:47  <supermop> same reason NYC dumps its old cars into the ocean
01:18:07  <Flygon> Except they're totally allowed a 177km/h overspeed (10% overspeed, who'da thunk?)
01:18:14  <Flygon> But the big wallbanger is
01:18:40  <supermop> they would need such a specific buyer, and so much work, that it is not worth the MTA's time
01:18:42  <Flygon> Is that the near-identical current DMU TransWA Prospector sets are designed to go 200km/h in future
01:19:09  <Flygon> Which... collaborates perfectly with the 10% theoretical overspeed... which's exactly what the 220-230km/h VLocity tests stick to
01:19:28  <supermop> also many cars on the subway being scrapped now are 50 or so years old, so not many systems out there have similar stock anymore
01:19:33  <Flygon> So, all in all. The speed limits regarding the VLocity DMUs and derivatives is a cluster... bork
01:19:46  <Flygon> I don't feel like using the f-word here. You're all too civilized
01:20:18  <supermop> the DMUs in melbourne don't go that far away, why not electrify it all
01:20:20  <Flygon> supermop: I am mildly surprised there hasn't been any serious attempt to create a 100% standardized subway EMU for the North American subway...
01:20:29  <supermop> there was
01:20:29  <Flygon> But I do suppose the loading gauge problem is just too insane x.x
01:20:33  <Flygon> There was??
01:20:43  <Flygon> Yeah, I mean, Victoria's bloody tiny
01:20:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i never understood this anglosaxon obsession with bleeping "f-words"
01:21:13  <Flygon> Y'know what I reckon? Just electrictrify all of V/Line's current passenger lines (including Swan Hill)
01:21:17  <supermop> sure, similar to PCC with streetcars
01:21:29  <supermop> eddi is not from saxony
01:21:33  <Flygon> And cascade the DMUs down to other lines as they're electrified while keeping the pace with 200-250km/h EMUs...
01:21:35  <Flygon> Though
01:21:41  <Eddi|zuHause> actually... :p
01:21:53  <Flygon> This assumes we'd be willing to also spend the money on bringing the track up to RFR or HST standard too, while duplicating :U
01:22:02  <Flygon> It's actually kinda funny/silly...
01:22:29  <Flygon> My friend and I looked into how expensive it would be to turn the Melbourne-Adelaide line into a HST route (cheapest intercapital route in Australia)
01:22:46  <supermop> the least restrictive subways lines in the us are built to standard loading guage
01:22:47  <Flygon> It really wasn't too much. Even cheaper if we used pre-owned N700's from Japan. :U
01:22:55  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: technically, the modern day "saxon" people are not very closely related to the "saxon" people that invaded britain so many hundred years ago
01:22:59  <Flygon> supermop: Huh O_o
01:23:32  <Flygon> But, like....
01:23:34  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: the "ethnical" saxons moved westwards from the german region now called "lower saxony"
01:23:58  <Flygon> Lines like the Ballarat line.... could very much be operated with Shinkansen EMUs, simply because there isn't that many stations for the length of line
01:23:59  <Eddi|zuHause> whereas the name "saxony" moved eastwards with the noble people that ruled the country
01:24:00  <supermop> and all of the subway's 70s and 80s cars, both american and built in japan, as well as long island railroad and metro north EMUs from that era have essentially the same body
01:24:42  <Flygon> It's when you start hitting Bacchus Marsh or Melton that you'll want seperate EMUs for urban travel (to account for Rockbank, Deer Park, Ardeer, and the future Toolern station)
01:24:43  <supermop> heh
01:25:09  <supermop> well anglos are just seriously lapsed germanic tribes far enough back
01:25:26  <Eddi|zuHause> anglos were a danish tribe, where saxons were a german tribe
01:26:22  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, im more of the second kind of "saxon" than the first kind :p
01:26:30  <Flygon> I'm Australian. So, like
01:26:43  <Flygon> Who gives a fuck, I'm 905% criminal anyway :D
01:27:28  <Eddi|zuHause> but anyway, i have never seen this bleeping of swearwords outside of english speaking countries
01:27:31  <supermop> yes, but modern colloquial english anglo (as opposed to 'angle') means all of the british colonial white people, traditionally not counting celctic peoples
01:27:43  <Flygon> Eddi: Probably because other countries have such cool swear words
01:27:55  <Flygon> I mean, it's just so much fun to screan PERRRRRRRRRRRKELEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
01:27:59  <Flygon> scream, even
01:27:59  <supermop> but today in the us it often means all english speaking white people
01:28:12  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: can't be. because we properly adopted "fuck" into our pool of swearwords
01:28:28  <Flygon> Eddi: Only because of crime nior films!
01:28:32  <Flygon> noir?
01:28:33  <supermop> even those who are scottish, irish, or scandinavian
01:28:34  <Flygon> Fuck
01:28:35  <Flygon> :D
01:28:48  <Eddi|zuHause> the german word "ficken" was never used outside of describing the sexual act
01:29:08  <Eddi|zuHause> it never became this universally applicable swearword
01:29:10  <supermop> as was traditionally old english 'fuck'
01:30:03  <Eddi|zuHause> whereas "fuck" is never used to mean sexually :p
01:30:51  <supermop> as someone who is ethnically swedish and scottish, i am still considered an 'anglo' in the US
01:31:39  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: because US-people are universally known for their cultural differentiations?
01:31:53  <supermop> it depends
01:32:06  <supermop> who you are talking about and in what context
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01:33:43  <Eddi|zuHause> there's this german comedian who used to tell this bit: "i performed in New York, and after a show, this girl 'Tiffany' approached me, and asked: 'Hey, why do you have so many different languages in europe?' -- what do you answer to such a sophisticated question?"
01:33:50  <supermop> but in terms of discussing privilege and inequality, it makes sense to lump the once poor celtic and scandinavian immigrants in with the old rich english and dutch settlers, as they all are much more priveledged today than Asian, Black, or Hispanic peoples
01:34:02  <Eddi|zuHause> "i answered: because 70 years ago we lost the war!!"
01:34:10  <Eddi|zuHause> "she answered: that is so sad."
01:34:24  <supermop> haha
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01:36:57  <supermop> likewise even though 4th generation Japanese families are likely wealthy and americanized, they may face similar difficulties as a poor refugee family from Laos in some areas, where in other areas they may enjoy privilege
01:37:30  <supermop> lots of people are racist until you explicity teach them not to be
01:37:48  <Flygon> Wait
01:37:56  <Flygon> So supermop is a blend of Swedish and Scottish
01:38:16  <glx> a blond scottish ?
01:38:21  <Flygon> :D:D
01:38:25  <Eddi|zuHause> ... and is a US-ian, and lives in australia?
01:38:37  <supermop> according to DNA yes but i speak almost no swedish, and i do not identify with scotts at all
01:38:45  <Flygon> glx: Thanks for that mental image
01:38:58  <Flygon> Now I think supermop's brother is a Magic Dog called Jake
01:39:49  <Eddi|zuHause> in german we have this expression: "Alter Schwede!" [old swede], when something unexpected/incredible happens
01:40:10  <supermop> i don't derive special pride from the us either, but i cannot deny that it shapes my identity
01:40:15  <supermop> haha
01:40:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure how or why that developed
01:41:08  <supermop> swedes may live long now
01:41:13  <Eddi|zuHause> most other things involving sweden originate in the 30 years war
01:41:22  <supermop> but 100 years ago many were hard living, hard drinking
01:41:34  <Eddi|zuHause> where the swedes are described as particularly brutal
01:41:59  <Eddi|zuHause> that's 400 years ago
01:43:15  <Eddi|zuHause> there's this torture technique called a "swedish drink", which involves a boot and animal excrement...
01:43:48  <supermop> haha
01:44:20  <Eddi|zuHause> [which is shoved down someone's throat]
01:45:31  <Eddi|zuHause> although, since the other parties in the 30 years war weren't exactly known for their humanitarian ambitions, this technique was probably not originating from the swedes at all
01:47:01  <supermop> i was just telling my fiance today about how my grampa, who grew up in swedish town in minnesota in 1910s-20s was surrounded by alchoholic laborers so was put off the the idea of ever drinking himself
01:47:41  <supermop> and never had a drink in his 96 years, not even when in combat in the Philippines
01:48:50  <Eddi|zuHause> basically, it was the 17th century version of "waterboarding"
01:49:49  <supermop> sweden was not that progessive in the 19th C as it was in the 20th, so i believe it
01:50:12  <supermop> in the 17th C im sure it was still a bit of the vking mentality
01:51:27  <Eddi|zuHause>
01:51:36  <supermop> after all, all  the farmers who moved to the US wanted to leave for a reason
01:53:28  <supermop> off to the store more monorail and platform discussion later
01:54:01  <Eddi|zuHause> this was about monorail? :p
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03:14:14  <supermop> yo
03:14:29  <supermop> just ate cheese off a board shaped like ohio
03:18:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really know the shape of ohio
03:19:36  <Eddi|zuHause> don't 80% of the american states have an almost rectangular shape, and then some ragged edge?
03:29:59  <Flygon> Dude
03:30:03  <Flygon> Duuuuuude
03:30:18  <Flygon> The US has like
03:30:20  <Flygon> Too many states
03:30:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i just realized this: when i made my joke earlier about "all about zbase", i should have mentiond that it works better if "z" is spoken as "zet" [BE] instead of "zee" [AE]
03:32:09  <Eddi|zuHause> (another thing about america i don't understand. why use "zee" when it's so easily confused with "cee"
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03:39:18  <supermop> i dont think z is used that commonly in american english for it to be an issue
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03:47:23  <Eddi|zuHause> well, often enough in american tv shows that i noticed it.
03:48:41  <Eddi|zuHause> also, it took me some time to actually understand what they said
03:50:40  <Eddi|zuHause> one of the interesting bits about this was when i started to watch stargate atlantis in english. because there the canadian guy said "zet" and the others "zee" [this distinction got totally lost in the translation]
03:52:59  <supermop> haha
03:53:22  <supermop> yeah americans find it funny that more 'english' people say zed
03:53:37  * Flygon scratches head
03:53:40  <supermop> i can imagine how this would not translate
03:53:52  <Flygon> Is it sad that I find it hard to hear the difference between t and d when it's not at the start of the word?
03:53:56  <Flygon> The sounds mush together easily
03:54:19  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: that is not weird at all
03:54:32  <Flygon> Ah, goodie
03:54:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: like for japanese people the sounds of "r" and "l" kinda merge
03:54:47  <Flygon> The sounds don't merge per-say
03:55:04  <Flygon> It's just that the way of writing it in Romanji is extremely bloody stupid
03:55:11  <Flygon> It's not an r sound, it's not an l sound
03:55:11  <Eddi|zuHause> because the japanese phonology only has a sound that is halfway inbetween both
03:55:16  <Flygon> It IS the rl sound
03:55:28  <Flygon> The Japanese r sound sounds like when you say Karl
03:56:01  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. try teaching germans how to pronounce a th :p
03:56:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i have writing from my early english lessons, where i wrote "dis" instead of "this"
03:57:11  <Eddi|zuHause> because that's how everybody spoke it
03:57:34  <Eddi|zuHause> [this was in 5th grade]
04:01:15  <supermop> bring back the thorn character
04:02:13  <supermop> stupid to approximate the sound with either d or th because early printers were too cheap to get a custom non-latin character made for their presses
04:04:57  <supermop> maybe best way to get around the 4x z tile edge issue is to make nothing flat
04:05:09  <supermop> like no surfaces at zero height
04:05:11  <Eddi|zuHause> strange how the germans managed to keep so many more "odd" characters around in that time. like two differently shaped "s", dots around "ÀöÌ", ligatures for "st", "ck" and "sz" [or "ss"]. and all that in two different typesets [fractured and antiqua]
04:05:37  <supermop> i think english printers were just really cheap
04:05:54  <supermop> and couldn't be bothered to buy the fancy characters
04:06:06  <supermop> thats where we got w
04:06:54  <supermop> just stick two vs or two us to make a wynn
04:07:36  <supermop> the worst are the guys who just used a Y for thorn instead of th
04:07:42  <Eddi|zuHause> how do english people manage to call that "doubleyoo"? isn't that really cumbersome to speak outloud?
04:08:13  <supermop> eddi yes, easier for us that double v though
04:08:27  <supermop> wynn would of course be much easier to say
04:08:59  <Eddi|zuHause> it's much easier in german...
04:09:30  <supermop> now we have people thinking Ye was an old word for the, instead of second person pronoun because cheap printers used Y instead of thorn
04:09:37  <Eddi|zuHause> the only letter in german that has a weird name is "y". but that only ever appears in foreign words
04:09:57  <supermop> how do you say Q?
04:10:02  <Eddi|zuHause> either greek or english
04:10:27  <Eddi|zuHause> Q is spoken like "Kuh" [cow]
04:11:27  <supermop> if i make all of the flat surfaces at say 50-100 mm instead of zero,
04:11:47  <supermop> then the pixel edge can eat into the side a bit
04:11:57  <supermop> and the top edge can stay smooth
04:12:01  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: then you have trouble fitting with landscape from other places?
04:12:32  <supermop> but what if its drawn as being 50mm tall, protruding up?
04:12:47  <Eddi|zuHause> what?
04:12:55  <supermop> so a tile of flat concrete looks like a 50mm thick concrete slab
04:13:08  <Eddi|zuHause> that sentence makes exactly 0 sense
04:13:28  <supermop> have a slab of some thickness above the groundsprite
04:13:53  <Eddi|zuHause> what's that supposed to solve?
04:14:19  <Eddi|zuHause> industries or houses that are not from your set will look sunken into the ground
04:14:58  <supermop> where a bunch of these slabs fit together they hide their serrated edge down in the crack
04:15:09  <supermop> but only by 1-2 px?
04:15:25  <Eddi|zuHause> 1.2px is enough to annoy people
04:15:29  <supermop> dirt and grass could still be at 0 height
04:16:04  <Eddi|zuHause> how does that solve a monorail ditch dug into grass?
04:16:25  <supermop> man the monorail ditch is a whole other problem
04:16:39  <supermop> but shallow ditches like gutters may work
04:16:40  <Eddi|zuHause> so. what is this problem then?
04:17:45  <Eddi|zuHause> no, what i think you need to be looking at is that when you dig out stuff from a base tile, you need to add the bits that would be on the next tile to this tile
04:17:58  <Eddi|zuHause> as long as the tile repeats itself, it will look seamless
04:18:10  <supermop> to give the concrete beneath the rails some detail, i have to give it a thickness of 50mm to cut into
04:18:27  <supermop> but now i need to use a mask to hide that thickness at tile edge
04:18:56  <supermop> or have a small scale version of the monorail problem for each channel cut
04:19:35  <Eddi|zuHause> when rendering, assume the tile is repeated endlessly, and make sharp edges by advanced cuttery
04:19:42  <supermop> i guess if there is a recessed channel, i could extend it beyond the tile edge then crop it off
04:19:56  <supermop> yeah
04:20:31  <Eddi|zuHause> then hope it doesn't look too bad in curves and stuff
04:20:35  <supermop> also i can assume the monorail wont turn in stations (yet) so the repeat only has to account for straight stretches
04:21:35  <supermop> hopefully by the time we get curved stations we can have curved stations on curved bridges, so we can finally stop digging 2m deep trenches for out monorails
04:22:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see how that would help :p
04:23:45  <supermop> hopefully on a bridge we dont need to did the stupid trench!
04:30:27  <Eddi|zuHause> a) yes. a bridge is basically a ground tile raised by 8px, and b) you can't force people to build their stuff on bridges
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04:36:49  <supermop> sigh
04:37:11  <supermop> monorail should be cheaper to build on a bridge than on/in the ground
04:37:37  <supermop> that was one of the selling points of the original systems - easier to elevate than rail
04:37:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you can adjust bridge costs based on railtype
04:37:48  <supermop> im sure you cannot
04:38:53  <supermop> nor do i think you can do like in TTO and give monorail its own bridge type, that regular rail cannot access (which presumably could be quite cheap)
04:39:47  <supermop> real monorails occasionally use 'regular' bridges too when they must span long distances
04:41:15  <Eddi|zuHause> what may actually help you is a "height offset" parameter, so vehicles are drawn at a different elevation
04:41:47  <Eddi|zuHause> [but then you still have that platform heigt problem)
04:41:57  <supermop> there is a spot on the narita express coming in to tokyo through Chiba from the airport, where the rails run beneath the chiba suspended monorail for a stretch
04:42:10  <supermop> eddi yeah i pondered that
04:42:36  <supermop> do the tall platforms look worse that the trenches....?
04:43:01  <Eddi|zuHause> no, but you can't adjust platform height based on railtype
04:43:22  <supermop> sadly there is no spot where the suspended monorail hangs from the bottom of a rail bridge
04:43:43  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: the default station changes sprites based on rail type
04:43:46  <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe you can, but other people won't do that
04:43:48  <supermop> in ogfx
04:44:58  <supermop> well that's what i was wondering... if i suddenly decided to make rail completely different in size, i'd run into problems with every other set out there
04:45:20  <supermop> but there are so few monorail graphics out there... could i get away with it
04:45:55  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i once thought about elevation levels being a solution to subways etc. in lieu of actual flexible tunnels/bridges.
04:46:20  <Eddi|zuHause> but it still has a few flaws, like connector pieces between subway, tramway and elevated rails
04:46:34  <supermop> yeah
04:47:33  <supermop> and in some cities elevateds are built with small gauges and light vehicles like a tramway, in some cities they are heavy rail just like regular trains
04:48:24  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can easily make that distinciton by providing the vehicles as tram or as trains.
04:49:10  <supermop> then do you also have subterranean tram and rail? i guess that could work
04:49:44  <supermop> in Boston the Green line is a subway in the city but is basically trams, whereas the red line is heavy rail
04:51:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i think most subways in germany operate under the [less strict] tramway law
04:52:00  <Eddi|zuHause> but not all trains that go underground are subways
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04:57:59  <supermop> yes it varies line by line
04:58:29  <supermop> here's what i have so far for concrete slabs:
04:58:32  <supermop>
05:02:39  <Eddi|zuHause> in germany, we also now have trains that operate either under railway law or under tramway law depending on which section of track they happen to be on right now
05:05:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i would probably skip the shadows...
05:06:35  <supermop> i may have to
05:07:06  <supermop> as it will be easiest to render base, platform, and shelter as separate sprites
05:07:34  <supermop> adding shadows to the sprite with alpha probably will not look good
05:11:12  <supermop> how long are your 32m/tile trains? one tile?
05:12:54  <supermop> hmm i wonder if it would be too insane to model the clips holding the rail
05:29:25  <supermop> maybe just a little rectangle
05:49:44  <Terkhen> hello
05:59:33  <supermop> hi
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07:26:57  <supermop> big day in the ant community on my terrace
07:27:30  <supermop> drones and new queens from two hills getting ready for flight
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07:40:28  <andythenorth> coffee cat
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07:56:56  <supermop> these guys seem to require a pretty big ground crew
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08:07:44  <chillcore> good morning o/
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08:10:00  <supermop> yo
08:10:26  <chillcore> hello supermop
08:12:29  <supermop> hows it going?
08:13:49  <chillcore> fine fine thanks for asking
08:13:56  <chillcore> and you yourself?
08:15:26  <chillcore> adjusting my tgen light patch a bit
08:15:36  <chillcore> adjusting comments
08:15:53  <chillcore> making the optional parts not optional
08:16:07  <chillcore> calling it final
08:16:19  <supermop> nice
08:16:31  <supermop> im playing my first ever TAI game
08:16:52  <chillcore> if only I knew what that meant
08:16:58  <chillcore> xD
08:20:32  <supermop> pikka's town and industry set
08:20:50  <chillcore> ah yes that one ... rice fields
08:20:53  <chillcore> IIRC
08:21:54  <chillcore> looked pretty sweat ... but I was stuck on George's stuffs and later FIRS
08:22:18  <chillcore> also coding more as playing so never got to really test it
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08:27:10  <chillcore> maybe I will just do the gui version on top of the light version ...
08:27:18  <chillcore> not keep them seperate
08:27:32  <chillcore> 1.6 is a year away ... got time
08:27:36  <chillcore> coffee ...
08:33:09  <chillcore> damned ic111
08:33:38  <chillcore> butt ugly terrain in trunk and it will come down on me
08:33:51  <chillcore> I did the tuning not he
08:34:04  <chillcore> and he knew very well that it was like that
08:34:22  <chillcore> I'll just point to my patchpack ... there is my tuning
08:34:36  <chillcore> he just was to lazy to implement
08:34:40  <chillcore> cause yeah
08:35:09  <chillcore> I don't blame devs
08:35:16  <chillcore> I do blame him
08:35:25  <chillcore> for allowing this to happen
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08:37:06  <chillcore> morning Alberth o/
08:37:14  <Alberth> mornink
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08:49:39  * chillcore plays minecraft
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08:52:14  <Alberth> /me plays code-refactoring
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08:55:02  <chillcore> hehe that is a nice game too
08:55:58  <chillcore> what are you working on?
08:56:11  <chillcore> just curious ...
08:56:49  <chillcore> I am going to play that game too in a bit but no much good will come from it right now so ...
08:57:51  <chillcore> hack and slash in the gui version
08:58:45  <Alberth> handling mouse interaction for a construction window (build path, coaster, or terraform) in freerct is way too complicated to code currently
08:59:11  <chillcore> nice
08:59:33  <Alberth> you have the window, the viewport, and a common coordination object, sending messages between them
09:00:05  <Alberth> it's a nightmare to build or even understand a year later
09:00:38  <Alberth> so I am trying to simplify it, by taking a lot of crap out :)
09:00:50  <chillcore> xD
09:01:45  <chillcore> ghosts 'n goblins style ...  :P
09:02:24  <Alberth> pretty much everything is being moved to the construction window, where the window manager handles communication and handling of mouse things
09:02:50  <chillcore> hmm I should update the checkout I have here to see where you are at
09:02:55  <Alberth> it mostly eliminates the coordination thingie
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09:03:14  <chillcore> have you changed the clone location over the past years?
09:03:34  <Alberth> googlecode is dead, so yeah :p
09:03:46  <chillcore> mind giving me it?
09:03:54  <chillcore> google is blacklisted here
09:03:57  <Alberth> working on that one  :p
09:04:05  <Alberth> ah, GH too?
09:04:17  <chillcore> no hg should work I guess
09:04:20  <Alberth>
09:04:51  <chillcore> that works. thank you
09:04:58  <Alberth> pull mostly works, push fails in all sorts of interesting ways :p
09:05:15  <chillcore> hehe
09:05:46  <Alberth> so I switched to git for freerct
09:06:25  <chillcore> git gives some benifits over HG yes
09:06:41  <chillcore> less faffing around with history
09:07:01  <chillcore> if it is better is in the eye of the beholder
09:08:02  <Alberth> the basic idea is quite nice, and it gives strong guides on how to do things, which is probably useful for the general audience
09:08:04  <chillcore> let's see if I can find a nice git gui that does not crash on me
09:08:35  <Alberth> I haven't found one that classifies as "nice" :p
09:09:05  <Alberth> but the entire rebase stuff still feels very complicated
09:09:19  <chillcore> the ones I tried on linux occasionally crashed on me
09:09:35  <chillcore> rebase ... I never needed that
09:10:05  <chillcore> you keep a main branch and braches for your WIPs
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09:10:42  <Alberth> and you merge branches?
09:10:44  <chillcore> then you make another branch (copy of main) for testing and merge there
09:10:46  <chillcore> yes
09:11:02  <Alberth> ah, very non-git-ish :)
09:11:08  <chillcore> yes
09:11:22  <chillcore> but you can keep working on each feature untill happy
09:11:39  <Alberth> oh, git does do branching like you do
09:11:48  <chillcore> indeed ;)
09:12:08  <chillcore> unmerging is a bitch
09:12:11  <Alberth> but they only merge if there are no conflicts
09:12:15  <chillcore> would not recommended it
09:12:31  <Alberth> unmerging?
09:12:35  <chillcore> you can fix merges in your copy of main
09:12:49  <chillcore> ye it is not like HG where you just pop a patch
09:13:07  <chillcore> eg. main is at r1000
09:13:30  <chillcore> you try r1001 and are not happy so you go back to 1000 and forget about r 1001
09:13:38  <chillcore> bit of a workaround
09:14:03  <chillcore> r1001 being a merge with one of the braches
09:14:12  <Alberth> ah, right
09:14:32  <Alberth> git-style would do a rebase of the branch to r1000
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09:14:46  <Alberth> so you fix the merge problems in the branch
09:14:53  <chillcore> no ...
09:15:02  <Wolf01> hi o/
09:15:04  <chillcore> branch is just keep going
09:15:13  <Alberth> then you can ff-merge the branch into the main
09:15:17  <chillcore> you merge in main or copy thereof
09:15:39  <chillcore> hmm hw do I explain this properly ...
09:15:39  <Alberth> hi sir W
09:15:44  <chillcore> hi wolf
09:15:58  <chillcore> see it as a forest
09:16:09  <chillcore> the trees stay trees
09:16:28  <chillcore> but there is this one tree in the middle where branches touch
09:16:49  <chillcore> the small trees keep growing
09:16:56  <chillcore> seperatly
09:17:07  <Alberth> /me nods
09:17:33  <chillcore> higher up another branch touches the 'magic' tree
09:17:53  <chillcore> but is your not happy wit that you cut the top off
09:18:02  <chillcore> makes sense?
09:18:15  <Alberth> yes
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09:18:27  <Alberth> so how do you fix that situation?
09:18:49  <chillcore> if there is a merge at r 1001 you just chekout r1000
09:18:58  <chillcore> the merge goes away
09:19:24  <chillcore> but you still have the small trees so nothing lost
09:19:35  <chillcore> only that one merge
09:19:59  <chillcore> as in r1001 goes into the trash
09:20:10  <chillcore> and you try again
09:20:51  <chillcore> or work some more on one of the smaller branches first before you do
09:21:23  <chillcore> but this is me pulling trunk ... the magic tree I have no access to
09:21:37  <chillcore> kinda
09:22:31  <chillcore> you'd need a seperate remote location and work on clone I guess
09:22:55  <chillcore> when your are happy with your clone
09:23:14  <chillcore> you take the tree that was merged entirely and push it to the remote
09:23:30  <chillcore> see you still have it
09:23:56  <chillcore> it is only the main clone that has the merging
09:24:09  <chillcore> to see if things work out
09:24:34  <chillcore> but again this is suitable for patchers like me
09:25:22  <chillcore> which I do not care much about the since I can not change it
09:25:39  <chillcore> I do care ... because it influences my future merges
09:26:40  <chillcore> you'd have to change role a bit ...
09:27:11  <chillcore> Alberth the main dev and Alberth the patcher
09:27:17  <chillcore> both
09:27:30  <chillcore> still makes sense?
09:27:47  <Alberth> I am having too many conversations currently :)
09:28:05  <chillcore> ok no prob ... maybe I can show you later
09:28:12  <chillcore> going to clone ;)
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09:55:02  <Alberth> chillcore: ah, right, yes that's a tricky part
09:55:28  <chillcore> yeah ...
09:55:30  <Alberth> I find it really hard to decide whether a given patch is useful :(
09:56:10  <chillcore> I understand that
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09:57:31  <chillcore> I did a few patchpacks like that ... and deciding if I should keep something in now or merge it later is a bitch
09:57:47  <chillcore> you do not want to go back 200 revisions and redo the mergin part
10:00:37  <chillcore> Also I had no remote to take care of ...
10:00:40  <chillcore> hmm ...
10:01:17  <Alberth> with trunk it's easier in a sense, you either never merge, or do merge it for eternity :)
10:01:34  <chillcore> true
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10:02:57  <chillcore> Alberth: it does not build for me can't find lex/flex in repo
10:03:15  <chillcore> I'll have a bit f a search in a bit
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10:04:26  <Alberth> hmm, it doesn't fall back on pre-generated files?
10:06:00  <chillcore> make finds not targets ... cmake needs options it seems
10:06:11  <frosch123> chillcore: maybe look for "bison"
10:06:24  <frosch123> sometimes flex is part of the bison packet
10:06:40  *** roidal [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:07:01  <chillcore> already newest ... hmm
10:07:22  <chillcore> must be something silly I am missing here
10:07:49  <Alberth> lex/flex is a program
10:08:15  <chillcore> can not find
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10:08:39  <chillcore> maybe time to upgrade to debian itself ...
10:08:49  <Alberth> flex-2.5.37-7.fc21.x86_64  <-- the name of the flex package at my fedora
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10:08:58  <chillcore> instead of mint debian that is
10:09:38  <chillcore> I'll search for it in synaptic ...
10:09:51  <frosch123> it's named "flex" there :p
10:10:08  <frosch123> "apt-get install flex" should just work
10:10:13  <Alberth> and you need 'bison' too
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10:10:40  <chillcore> frosch: it sais not found
10:11:03  <chillcore> Alberth: got that installed
10:11:08  <Alberth> silly mint :p
10:11:17  <chillcore> hehe
10:11:31  <frosch123> what? it has bison but not flex?
10:11:37  <chillcore> yep
10:11:45  <Alberth> maybe it's called 'lex' ?
10:11:50  <chillcore> same result
10:12:00  <chillcore> i'll figure it out
10:12:15  <chillcore> if I have to I'll get it manually
10:12:21  <chillcore> Yay linux
10:12:24  <Alberth> which flex   doesn't give you a path?
10:12:53  <chillcore> E: Kan pakket lex niet vinden
10:13:06  <Alberth> ieks :p
10:13:16  <chillcore> hehe
10:13:29  <Alberth> should have sources :p
10:13:56  <chillcore> exactly what I was thinking XD
10:14:21  <chillcore> stuff like this does not happen often but yeah
10:14:44  <Alberth> you may want to talk to LordAro about cmake not properly handling lack of the scanner generator
10:15:01  <frosch123> <- also just says "flex" :p
10:15:17  <Alberth> don't know if you can give options to cmake
10:15:25  <chillcore> eg. IRC client auto-connected to mint channel each time, untill I said straight up "look guys I do not want to be here help me undo this"
10:15:28  <chillcore> lol
10:15:54  <Alberth> hehe :)
10:16:20  <chillcore> well intended no doubt but yeah
10:16:33  <Alberth> can be quite useful for new users
10:16:56  <chillcore> yes
10:17:37  <Alberth> you can say in the forum "fire up the blah program, and we can give you a hand"
10:19:29  <chillcore> huhu ... mind you I was polite and they helped me real quick
10:20:32  <Alberth> nice bunch of chaps :)
10:21:13  <chillcore> True Clem and co are a  nice bunch ... and I am very  happy with Mint
10:21:48  <chillcore> just some minor details ... but can't have it all unless you do it yourself I guess
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10:22:49  <chillcore> anyhoo I'll have a look in a bit ... the docs are quite clear and I maneged to run it before so ...
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10:24:26  <chillcore> strangely enough in synaptic flex is marked as installed ... woohoo mysteries to solve
10:24:35  <chillcore> Who needs games :P
10:26:16  <Alberth> :)
10:28:59  <chillcore> aha ... no sdl2
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10:37:18  <supermop> nowdays in rail yards and along track, you often see precast modular concrete conduits for carrying wires etc
10:37:28  <supermop> where the top lifts of for access
10:37:57  <supermop> was there anything similar in earlier times?
10:38:28  <supermop> something older looking running along in the gravel?
10:41:29  <Alberth> I remember metal wires along the track that moved for changing track direction, they were above ground, 20/30 cm or so
10:47:35  <supermop> hmm
10:48:26  <supermop> i want something to take up some visual room along tracks in the stations - for modern tracks it is easy but for older ones I have no idea
10:48:59  <supermop> i tried a terracotta drainage gutter, but i have no idea if those were ever used
10:50:40  <Alberth> you'd hope the rock-bed would have adequate drainage :)
10:51:06  <Alberth> but reality doesn't matter much, just use what you think looks good
10:51:34  <Alberth> just a foot-path perhaps?
10:54:35  <supermop> hmm yeah
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11:03:44  <Alberth> water-supply (toilets)?
11:04:25  <chillcore> signal houses
11:04:39  <chillcore> speed signs
11:06:57  <chillcore> also for older ones ... toilet paper and content :P
11:07:02  <chillcore> kidding
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11:57:50  <Wolf01> downloaded 185MB patch from blizzard in 8 seconds... what kind of sorcery they use?
11:58:36  <Wolf01> (my real dl speed is 450-500KB/s)
11:58:40  <Alberth> they sneakily uploaded it already last night? :)
11:59:28  <Wolf01> also with diablo 3, the dl speed was like 1.25MB/s
12:00:52  <Alberth> they multiply patch size by a 100 or so, for impressive upload speeds?
12:01:10  <Wolf01> it might be
12:02:46  <Alberth> or like fedora, patches are big, but they only send changes wrt an already available version?
12:03:00  <Wolf01> or it's like pifs... the data is already there, just figure out in which point it is :P
12:04:19  <Wolf01> so it's 185MB only if you don't have anything but 1.3MB if it can rebuild it incrementally, it could be
12:15:27  <frosch123> or it is just a installer, that downloads the actual stuff later
12:16:39  <frosch123> when i updated flush the other day, it said 30mib or something, but what i got was only a 1mib executable that would do the download itself
12:17:36  <Wolf01> it's already the installer, it was downloading the stuff :P
12:18:09  <frosch123> no problem, you can chain that indefinitely
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12:28:22  <Rubidium> or is it a 180 MiB updater that you already downloaded, which downloads a 5 MiB patch?
12:31:07  <supermop> off to bed,
12:31:17  <supermop> but first, here is some ugly gravel:
12:31:19  <supermop>
12:32:36  <Wolf01> I don't know, maybe the client already have all the future patches and just update the bits before installing them
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12:33:11  <Wolf01> it looks nice but too bright
12:36:34  <Wolf01> uhm, another cute russian girl just sent me an email, too bad the sender address is french
12:37:24  <supermop> whoa there is a lunar eclipse out the window
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12:42:05  <Alberth> ha, I thought at  :p
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13:02:25  <supermop> not a bad one, nice and red
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13:38:44  <andythenorth> Pikka bob
13:39:54  <Pikka> andysir
13:40:22  <andythenorth> lo
13:41:32  <Pikka> I made the mistake of playing a little game with busybee
13:41:35  <andythenorth> oic
13:41:41  <andythenorth> what happened?
13:41:43  <Pikka> I have identified a gap in pineapple trains, in the early years
13:41:50  <andythenorth> never play
13:41:53  <andythenorth> it makes work
13:43:07  <andythenorth> important questions: leave Depeche Mode playing, or choose something else?
13:43:23  <Pikka>
13:43:25  <andythenorth> is Depeche Mode sufficiently Christmasy?
13:43:29  <Pikka> important answer: yes.
13:43:45  <andythenorth> some kind of interurban cabbage?
13:43:45  <Pikka> to the first question, I don't know about the second.
13:43:47  <andythenorth> o_O
13:44:12  <Pikka> yes. something more passengery for electrified lines.
13:44:19  <andythenorth> also cheerful
13:44:22  <andythenorth> looks happy
13:44:36  <supermop> railcar looks cute
13:45:16  <supermop> im off to bed
13:45:21  <Pikka> goodnight
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13:48:08  <andythenorth> bye pikka bob
13:48:13  <andythenorth> wrong person
13:48:17  <Pikka> him too
13:48:18  <andythenorth> that will learn me
13:48:24  <andythenorth> bye supermop
13:48:52  <andythenorth> this Road Hog set is unfinished
13:48:54  <andythenorth> shameful
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13:49:21  <Pikka> I like it
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13:50:30  <andythenorth> mixing it with Pineapples?
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14:03:32  <andythenorth> hmm
14:03:38  <andythenorth> milk pipelines
14:04:36  <Alberth> moving the cow could be easier :p
14:06:42  <andythenorth> :)
14:07:23  <andythenorth> I have found a better way to play with FIRS
14:07:28  <andythenorth> enable industry production cheat
14:07:34  <andythenorth> better than delivering supplies to farms
14:07:41  <andythenorth> recommended
14:10:20  <Pikka> according to some guy on the forums FIRS is improved by mixing it with other industry sets...
14:15:49  <andythenorth> something called TaI?
14:16:26  <andythenorth> should have called it Bossy Bee
14:16:33  <andythenorth> keeps telling me what to deliver
14:23:11  <Alberth> totally depends on your interpretation of its suggestions :)
14:23:28  <Alberth> but it's nice that people automatically think they have to do it :p
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14:30:01  <andythenorth> it’s quite compelling
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15:19:49  <andythenorth> so hg
15:19:53  <andythenorth> when you’re on the wrong branch
15:20:00  <andythenorth> you have no choice but to bin your changes?
15:20:04  <andythenorth> or commit to the wrong branch?
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15:24:13  <Eddi|zuHause> hg diff > tmp.diff
15:25:28  <andythenorth> diff a PNG?
15:25:30  <andythenorth> with hg?
15:25:37  <andythenorth> it can do that now? :o
15:25:51  <Eddi|zuHause> probably not. just make a copy
15:26:01  <andythenorth> I had to
15:26:04  <andythenorth> standard hg
15:26:13  <andythenorth> copy everything because the vcs is incompetent
15:26:19  * andythenorth should really stop using this
15:26:40  <andythenorth> or I should install all the extra magic extensions that make it usable but don’t ship by default
15:26:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know why you're so upset...
15:27:03  <andythenorth> because it makes me feel stupid
15:27:07  <andythenorth> standard
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15:33:33  <frosch123> andythenorth: hg diff --git
15:33:43  <frosch123> but actually hg rebase
15:34:11  <frosch123> if your working copy has your current files, do hg rebase <target branch>
15:35:32  <andythenorth> so commit, then rebase to different branch?
15:35:43  <frosch123> yup
15:36:14  <frosch123> if rebase is too much magic for you, you can also use queues
15:36:23  <andythenorth> I don’t mind rebase
15:36:27  <frosch123> hg qimport -rblabla:.
15:36:30  <andythenorth> I don’t have rebase, I’d have to get it
15:36:33  <frosch123> hg update <target branch>
15:36:53  <frosch123> you have rebase :p
15:36:59  <frosch123> just need to enable it in ~/.hgrc
15:37:12  <andythenorth> I should probably read this
15:37:19  <andythenorth> and fix my mercurial
15:37:24  <andythenorth> mine is quite broken
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15:46:35  <andythenorth> more horse
15:50:52  <Pikka> "a little too low"?
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15:51:15  <Pikka> I finished my little interurban, and I've decided to halve the wagon purchase prices
15:51:39  <Pikka> deciding whether to call it a release or wait a while. I might wait a while, get some more stuff together for a big bolg post or something.
15:59:33  <Pikka> for now, goondight :)
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16:21:38  <andythenorth> ‘create group from these shared orders'
16:21:51  <andythenorth> would be more affordant than ‘find vehicle in long list, create new group, add shared'
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16:25:55  <frosch123> andythenorth: ctrl+drag to empty row
16:26:10  <andythenorth> ho ho
16:26:14  <andythenorth> yet another magic ctr
16:26:16  <andythenorth> ctrl *
16:26:26  <andythenorth> thanks
16:35:45  <Samu> 			if (owner != OWNER_WATER && owner != OWNER_NONE && _current_company != OWNER_TOWN ) {
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16:41:06  <Samu> what's the diference between _local_company and _current_company
16:41:26  <glx> local is yours
16:41:33  <glx> current can be other
16:41:53  <glx> because the game manages all companies one at a time
16:46:34  <Samu> prospected industries are prospected by owner-town even though I am prospecting it
16:48:23  <Samu> i am trying to bypass CommandCost ret = CheckTileOwnership(tile);
16:48:54  <Samu> checktileownership is the culprit, doesn't let it prospect on my own canals
16:49:18  <glx> that's how prospection works
16:49:28  <glx> it happens only on free land
16:49:43  <glx> and it can fail
16:49:59  <Samu> Owner owner = GetTileOwner(tile); - this gives the owner of the canal
16:50:23  <Samu> if (owner == _current_company) return CommandCost();
16:50:38  <Samu> owner is company 1, current company is owner town
16:50:42  <Samu> hmm
16:50:57  <glx> prospection doesn't start when you press the button
16:51:02  <glx> it happens later
16:51:13  <glx> during the industry loop
16:56:13  <Samu> there has to be a way to get the company who issued the prospect command
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17:38:47  <andythenorth> is it done yet?
17:45:26  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27219 trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt (2015-04-04 19:45:16 +0200 )
17:45:27  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:28  <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 13 changes by xiangyigao
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17:57:21  <andythenorth> ‘Skip Truck’
17:57:27  <andythenorth> understandable, or obscure?
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18:00:58  <Alberth> "Skip" being some class of truck?
18:01:10  <Eddi|zuHause> obscure
18:05:59  <andythenorth>
18:07:21  <Alberth> I'd call that a container truck :)
18:08:34  <andythenorth> I could call it a recycling truck
18:08:48  * andythenorth wonders if FIRS recycling chain should be introduced earlier
18:08:50  <andythenorth> recycling is not new
18:09:14  <andythenorth> 1997 is quite late
18:15:20  <Alberth> wouldn't people get confused with the recycling plant?
18:19:29  <andythenorth> because it randomises?
18:26:10  <Alberth> because it sounds like the truck is aimed at recycling products (it does to me)
18:28:43  <TrueBrain> *blames andy*
18:28:45  <TrueBrain> frosch told me to
18:34:31  <andythenorth> reasonable
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18:50:42  <frosch123> andythenorth: we are trying hard to sell eints to tb :)
18:52:28  <andythenorth> is he buying?
18:52:32  <andythenorth> will we get a good price?
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18:53:30  <frosch123> i am trying to make him bite on the cheap stuff, and then make buckets on the service addons
18:58:59  <andythenorth> upsell
19:01:30  <Supercheese> andy: not sure about when to introduce recycling? Make it a parameter :)
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20:00:11  <andythenorth> parameters are nonsense
20:00:19  <andythenorth> how is a player supposed to know the right answer?
20:00:21  <andythenorth> that’s my job
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20:00:42  <Alberth> economy parameters bad?
20:00:48  <DanMacK> Hey all
20:00:57  <Alberth> hi hi DanMacK
20:01:01  <andythenorth> lo DanMacK
20:02:42  <Supercheese> Parameters are nice
20:02:46  <Supercheese> let the player decide
20:03:16  <andythenorth> how would they know the right answer?
20:04:01  <frosch123> by trying all of them?
20:04:20  <frosch123> make the default parameter "invalid"
20:04:23  <Alberth> reading documentation :p
20:04:31  <frosch123> which just pops up an error message on game start :p
20:05:01  * andythenorth mostly hates parameters
20:05:01  <Supercheese> default it to 1997
20:05:04  <andythenorth> dunno if I mentioned that
20:05:06  <Supercheese> but make it changeable
20:05:09  <andythenorth> why?
20:05:12  * Supercheese mostle likes parameters
20:05:15  <Supercheese> mostly*
20:05:16  <Supercheese> derp
20:05:25  <Supercheese> well, you asked the question
20:05:28  <Supercheese> I answered
20:05:40  <andythenorth> eh yes :)
20:05:45  <andythenorth> there are 51 industries in Full FIRS
20:05:51  <andythenorth> they all get a parameter? o_O
20:06:12  <Supercheese> no, you were just wondering about the recycle
20:06:21  <Supercheese> "andythenorth	wonders if FIRS recycling chain should be introduced earlier"
20:07:11  <Alberth> how did you go from parameters in general to 51 of them? :o
20:07:25  <andythenorth> by logical progression
20:07:40  <Supercheese> the recycling chain is special though because it comes so late
20:07:55  <Alberth> quick logic then :)
20:08:06  <andythenorth> how to explain to players?
20:08:16  <andythenorth> why not a parameter for Steel, or Aluminium?
20:08:21  <andythenorth> or Cement?
20:08:24  <Alberth> what is this 51 parameters for?
20:08:33  <andythenorth> industry introduction dates
20:08:37  <Supercheese> steel and aluminum are both just Metal though
20:09:05  <Alberth> what's wrong with the existing dates?
20:09:18  <Supercheese> nothing is wrong especially they are fine
20:09:23  <Supercheese> but the topic was brought up
20:10:46  <andythenorth> I don’t play past about 2000
20:10:51  <andythenorth> so the chain is dead to me :D
20:11:26  <Supercheese> I got stuck in my current game when the first Av8 seaplane came out, because I thought, "Hmm, OGFX+ Airports doesn'tyet have a seaplane port, I should make one"
20:12:47  <Alberth> andy doesn't know people ask weird requests? :o
20:13:52  <Alberth> if you want to do anything, the simplest is to make an offset parameter, shifting everything by X years
20:14:11  <Alberth> but that's quite debatable, imho
20:14:23  <andythenorth> I see no gain
20:14:37  <andythenorth> just more configuration crap to forget to do
20:14:41  <andythenorth> :D
20:14:58  <Alberth> problem solved then?
20:15:54  <Supercheese> unless there wasn't a problem in the first place ;)
20:16:43  <Alberth> solving by not doing anything is one of the easier things to do :)
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20:18:36  <Alberth> gn
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21:31:10  <Supercheese> Hmm, which graphics to use for the seaplane port
21:38:02  <Supercheese> maybe the OGFX dock graphics
21:38:37  <Supercheese> no those are bad
21:39:50  <Eddi|zuHause> there exist some already?
21:40:47  <Supercheese> yes, but which
21:41:00  <Supercheese> I am patching OGFX+ airports, so I would like 4 rotations
21:41:18  <Supercheese> I figure I need some little dockways for the people to board the seaplanes
21:41:30  <Supercheese> but the rest can pretty much be water
21:41:37  <Supercheese> with the hangar of course
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21:41:57  <Supercheese> the existing seaplane port grf does not have all rotations
21:42:18  <Eddi|zuHause> so, make them?
21:42:31  <Supercheese> This is pretty nice
21:42:37  <Supercheese> except for the weird 04 hanging out there
21:43:19  <Eddi|zuHause> that was meant to be the runway length?
21:43:48  <Supercheese> perhaps
21:44:16  <Eddi|zuHause> the hangar looks like it was built by escher...
21:44:39  <Supercheese> yes, I am just going to stick the hangar right on the water
21:44:48  <Supercheese> the ramp there is... odd
21:45:02  <Supercheese> the dockways were what was most interesting
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21:49:43  *** mode/#openttd [+v frosch] by DorpsGek
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22:31:57  <Samu> if ( && _current_company == OWNER_TOWN && _local_company != _current_company) return ret;
22:37:46  <Samu> hmm
22:38:02  <Samu> _local_company == owner
22:38:15  <Samu> _local_company != owner
22:39:18  <Samu> 					if ( && _current_company == OWNER_TOWN && _local_company != owner) return ret;
22:42:47  <Samu> I hope local company is the company who issued the prospect command
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22:47:20  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:48:56  *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@] has joined #openttd
22:49:05  <drac_boy> hi..been quite a while :->
22:49:21  <drac_boy> *baps ngc* you still around I hope? heh
22:51:43  <Samu> question: prospecting on competitor canal with build on competitor canal setting enabled: allow or disallow?
22:51:57  <Samu> have to decide
22:52:48  <drac_boy> not sure what to tell you sorry samu
22:53:50  <Samu> say, you're prospecting an oil rig
22:54:03  <Samu> all the water in existance are canals, but these canals are not yours
22:54:11  <Samu> should the oil rig spawn?
22:57:26  <drac_boy> well water and road are technically open access so mm dunno
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23:18:01  <drac_boy> hmm I seem to have forgotten where ngc was from..I think around the europe timezone tho
23:22:05  *** frosch is now known as frosch123
23:22:08  <drac_boy> seem like a quiet saturday in here
23:22:54  <frosch123> <- see position 18
23:27:03  <Supercheese> Ho, interesting rankings
23:27:58  <frosch123> question is, when will s*mu catch up with andy :p
23:28:28  <frosch123> eddit used to be in first place in the past
23:28:40  <frosch123> but has been dwarfed by andy
23:28:46  <frosch123> and even pm overtook him
23:29:04  <Supercheese> "Poor andythenorth, nobody likes him. He was attacked 13 times.
23:29:06  <Supercheese> For example, like this:
23:29:07  <Supercheese>      * TrueBrain slaps andythenorth for pointing "
23:29:12  <Supercheese> Haha
23:30:59  <drac_boy> <actually likes andy for various reasons especially HEQS (and admittly my own private mod to it too)
23:31:56  <Supercheese> Indeed, andy grfs are superlative
23:31:59  <frosch123> lol, you make it sound as if noone likes andy :p
23:32:14  <Supercheese> everyone likes him, hence the direct object in the /me actions
23:32:16  <Supercheese> :D
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23:36:46  * drac_boy still needs to finish my two grf projects soon too
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23:42:41  <Supercheese> Something I've been working on:
23:43:12  <Supercheese> sort of the opposite of the Modern Small airport that was added, here's a Vintage Commuter
23:44:04  <frosch123> it's always sad that most airports only have one runway
23:44:29  <frosch123> the smallest grass airport would have 3 lines or so
23:44:34  <frosch123> for whatever reason
23:45:26  <frosch123> possibly to not stress the same grass all the time
23:46:25  <Supercheese> The grass tiles beneath the buildings also seem slightly different than the other grass on the airports, even on the default Small airports
23:46:41  <Supercheese> I might change the groundsprites of those
23:48:50  <Supercheese> There is so much magick in the OGFX+ spritelayouts
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23:58:46  * drac_boy will stick to the small airport 'forever' :->

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