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00:05:28 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 00:06:06 <FLHerne> TartarusMkII: New FIRS mechanics are nice and simple in themselves 00:07:35 <FLHerne> TartarusMkII: You deliver some supplies, you get 2x production. Lots of supplies, 4x production. 00:08:30 <FLHerne> For secondaries, you get a unit per [n] units of [type] delivered, plus a bonus for multiple types 00:09:08 <FLHerne> Old-style FIRS measured supplies per month (rather than per three months as now), and didn't care how many supplies you delivered 00:09:50 <FLHerne> So the 'optimal' supply method was lots of tiny vehicles, to ensure there was always a delivery each month 00:10:39 <FLHerne> That's still true in a smaller way for the multiple-cargos boost on secondary industries, but not so much 00:11:17 <FLHerne> Tips - Note existence of the industry-chain buttons ingame if you haven't already 00:11:32 <TartarusMkII> oh okay awesome, yea 00:11:38 <TartarusMkII> then I already know what I need to know. 00:11:55 <FLHerne> Form primary -> secondary -> supplies -> primary loops, so you get plenty of cargo 00:11:56 <TartarusMkII> All I am really missing is ideas or examples of optimal early or mid game set ups 00:12:37 <FLHerne> Don't bother with goods or any other 'delivered' cargo that doesn't ultimately end up in supplies until you have supply loops running 00:12:57 <Eddi|zuHause> optimal early [if you ignore passengers]: any primary to any secondary. optimal mid-game: set up some supplies->primary feedback loops 00:14:20 <TartarusMkII> often, it seems, on 512 x 512 maps, I can't find all the things to a chain. I usually try to work with the metal foundries 00:14:57 <FLHerne> FIRS has lots and lots and lots of chains, most of which duplicate each other to some extent :P 00:14:59 <TartarusMkII> or, I spend way too much money on gettign the materials to the mill. Thats why I am tryign to avoid rail for a bit, and learn to use shorter range means to group up more thigns so only one train can take the ass load of it all 00:15:09 <Eddi|zuHause> the game tries to put at least one of each industry 00:15:23 <Eddi|zuHause> [that is available at this time] 00:15:30 <FLHerne> TartarusMkII: For that bit, station-refit helps if your train/ship sets support it :-) 00:15:31 <TartarusMkII> right right 00:15:36 <Eddi|zuHause> some industries only show up after a certain date 00:15:43 <TartarusMkII> how so, FLHerne? 00:16:31 <FLHerne> Say you're serving a steel mill, you can truck coal/iron/scrap into your railhead/dock 00:17:09 <FLHerne> Most sets consider those as the same category, so a train/ship with 'refit to any' will pick up all of them 00:17:37 <FLHerne> Saves having to have different vehicle pools per cargo 00:18:36 <TartarusMkII> hmm that is interesting. I've never seen refit to any though. Like, I've always had to manually refit a train to pick up coal, or iron, or scrap? 00:21:44 <FLHerne> http://i.imgur.com/DpbULw0.png Same group, same leg of order, carrying five different cargos :-) 00:22:46 <TartarusMkII> huh, how u do dis =o! 00:22:47 <FLHerne> In the orders, there's a "station refit" button for vehicles that support it (most recent sets, not the default vehicles) 00:23:13 <TartarusMkII> so you'd order them to, say, drop off cargo at the mill, then refit to 'any', then go pick stuff up at its rounds? or whut 00:23:32 <FLHerne> TartarusMkII: It's on the options for a station 00:24:11 <TartarusMkII> sec, I'll start up the game and check it out 00:24:19 <FLHerne> So "goto loading point, wait for any full load with refit to available cargo" "goto factory, unload all, no loading" 00:25:16 <FLHerne> If you enable cargodist for freight you can do even more fun things, but most people consider that to be utterly insane :P 00:25:27 <TartarusMkII> and it'll automatically refit to carry as much as it can, or like, an equal distribution? 00:25:34 <FLHerne> Or at least fiddly and confusing 00:25:40 <TartarusMkII> yea I saw cargodist for passengers and I decided to keep it off. 00:25:45 <TartarusMkII> At least until Im better at the game 00:25:53 <TartarusMkII> I -do- enjoy complexity, though. 00:26:28 <FLHerne> If there's cargo waiting, and there's an empty vehicle that can refit to carry it, it'll refit to carry it 00:26:48 <FLHerne> RVs/ships can only carry one cargo at a time, trains can carry one cargo per wagon 00:26:55 <TartarusMkII> what if there is 200t of iron and 50t of coal at a station? Will it like, take all the iron and forget the coal if there's no more room? 00:27:01 <FLHerne> You should definitely turn it on for passengers 00:27:11 <FLHerne> Yes, afaik 00:27:16 <TartarusMkII> Maybe I have wrong assumptions about it- can you tell me more about what cargo dist does? 00:27:30 <FLHerne> On the other hand, you;ll have trains coming back that were refitted to coal before 00:27:46 <FLHerne> So generally it works fairly well unless your system is totally overloaded 00:28:26 <FLHerne> It [has the effect of] giving each passenger (or cargo unit) a particular station it 'wants' to reach 00:28:53 <FLHerne> It'll only try to send passengers from a station to a station that they can reach via your existing services 00:29:26 <FLHerne> (brackets above because technically it doesn't, it does magic that makes it look like it does that :P) 00:29:53 <FLHerne> For passengers, this is enormously better than "get off at the next stop" 00:30:15 <FLHerne> Because it makes having an integrated network with buses etc actually useful 00:31:02 <TartarusMkII> hm can you give me an example with passengers? like, with busses? 00:31:19 <FLHerne> e.g. passengers from city-centre bus stops will, instead of just getting off at the next stop, decide they want to go to the beach on another continent by catching the airport bus, flying, then changing trains twice 00:33:21 <FLHerne> http://i.imgur.com/huhwBvj.png 00:34:46 <FLHerne> http://i.imgur.com/zuKHU04.png <- cargo flow legend 00:35:03 <FLHerne> You can see the inner-city bus/tram/metro networks 00:35:41 <FLHerne> What passengers tend to do is catch a bus or two to the rail station, catch a train across the map, then a bus to somewhere else 00:36:29 <FLHerne> Of course, sometimes they really do just want to go to the next stop 00:36:47 <TartarusMkII> hmm..; 00:37:12 <TartarusMkII> is that cargo flow vanilla? I've never noticed it 00:37:27 <FLHerne> Yes, see 'Cargo flow legend' under the map menu 00:37:31 <TartarusMkII> cool 00:37:34 <TartarusMkII> I'm sort of confused though 00:37:51 <TartarusMkII> How does this work IN PRACTICE? If I make two cities have their own bus service, will people who want to go to the city just build up? 00:37:58 <TartarusMkII> do I have to make special lines go everywhere, or?.. 00:38:00 <FLHerne> The colours are a measure of route (over)loading 00:38:23 <FLHerne> Passengers only want to go to places they can get to by your network 00:38:56 <FLHerne> They'll prefer to take the shortest possible route, but if that's heavily overloaded they take others 00:39:02 <TartarusMkII> that's interesting 00:39:11 <TartarusMkII> so how does it work with cargo? I've never actually noticed a setting foir cargo 00:39:48 <FLHerne> It does mean that if you have two large cities near each other, it's a good idea to have a direct mainline between them so that they don't take a roundabout route and clog up everything 00:40:11 <FLHerne> (preferred destinations are weighted (optionally) by distance) 00:40:28 <FLHerne> Pretty much the same, cargo will 'want' to go to a particular industry 00:40:38 <FLHerne> Well, to a particular station, which is mostly the same thing 00:40:45 <TartarusMkII> So in practice, I'd really want busses that load/unload casually along a route of terminals? 00:40:50 <TartarusMkII> also, does this look right? 00:40:50 <TartarusMkII> http://gyazo.com/d188f4d799151fa1ecdc036b46530096 00:40:53 <TartarusMkII> I feel like soemthing is missing 00:41:17 <FLHerne> 'manual' effectively means 'off' ;-) 00:42:10 <FLHerne> Pax should be symmetric (try to have equal numbers of passengers going in both directions on each route) 00:42:33 <FLHerne> Cargo should never be symmetric, because sending equal amounts of coal back to the mine makes no sense 00:43:38 <FLHerne> TartarusMkII: Generally, the best networks for cargodist end up looking something like a mesh 00:44:05 <FLHerne> Or actually, mine tend to be small bus-network meshes attached to nodes on the big rail-network mesh 00:44:36 <FLHerne> The reason being that if you have a purely linear network, you have far more traffic in the middle than at the ends 00:45:11 <FLHerne> Because in a network A-B-C-D, the A-B link is only used by passengers from A to B/C/D 00:45:25 <FLHerne> Whereas B-C is used by A-C/D and also B-C/D 00:45:41 <FLHerne> You can make it work like that, but easier not to 00:46:10 <TartarusMkII> so technically a circle would be most 'efficient' of a web? 00:46:38 <TartarusMkII> if it were only 4 or 5 nodes, anyway 00:46:43 <FLHerne> For an individual route, maybe 00:46:48 <TartarusMkII> mhmm 00:47:03 <FLHerne> Although that means passengers from one side to the other have to go all round the edge 00:47:13 <TartarusMkII> what do you think I should set this other stuff to? like, recalculation, the accuracy, effect of distance on demands? hehe 00:47:26 <FLHerne> So if it's a big circle or busy, you might want cuts across the middle 00:47:32 <TartarusMkII> true true 00:47:46 <FLHerne> Mostly, the defaults are sane :-) 00:48:05 <TartarusMkII> X3 00:48:08 <FLHerne> Increasing the effect of distance will make it behave increasingly like 'normal' 00:48:40 <FLHerne> Making it very high will make almost all passengers want to go to the nearest station to their start point 00:48:46 <TartarusMkII> so 100% is good? Also, should I set it to symmetrical or asymmetrical? not sure what the difference is. 00:49:09 <TartarusMkII> oh okay I see what it does, but what would you suggest? 00:49:30 <FLHerne> Should be symmetrical for passengers - it tries to have the same number going in each direction on a route 00:49:50 <FLHerne> Which is logical, because you don't want all your passengers disappearing into some tiny village 00:50:05 <FLHerne> 100% is a sane default too :-) 00:50:23 <FLHerne> If your network gets totally overloaded, turn it up (it can go >100%) 00:50:38 <FLHerne> If your long-distance network is all empty, turn it down 00:50:42 <TartarusMkII> Would you suggest it for mail at all? and probably not cargo yet, as I'm noobsauce status 00:51:08 <FLHerne> Yes, since mail is just relabeled passengers IME 00:51:41 <FLHerne> Aw, everyone runs away from cargodisting freight :-( 00:53:11 <TartarusMkII> Well tell me more, does it get weird? 00:53:21 <TartarusMkII> like, I struggle to find a good way to get supply chains completed to begin with XD 00:53:57 <FLHerne> It gets very weird 00:54:21 <FLHerne> Can be a bit more difficult early on, since you don't have quite so much control 00:54:41 <FLHerne> Say you have three coal mines and a steel mill and a lime kiln 00:55:46 <FLHerne> If you connect all of them up with coal trains, each mine will usually want to send some of its cargo to each of the secondaries 00:56:22 <FLHerne> You can avoid that by setting up the network to give each mine only a connection to one industry, but that's no fun :P 00:56:56 <TartarusMkII> hmm 00:57:10 <FLHerne> What I tend to do is have big 'hubs' - i.e. all cargo from several primaries goes into one hub, and is then sorted out and sent off to its chosen industries 00:57:18 <TartarusMkII> haha Iw ill experiment with it later when I have a better idea, but I feel like some of the bus systems Ive made are too strong, so I'll be glad to require a network for them 00:57:33 <TartarusMkII> I can use trams for city bussing, and RVs for intercity, I suppose 00:57:42 <TartarusMkII> or.. hm.. trains. 00:57:59 <TartarusMkII> if I have two small towns linked together, then another set of two soemwhere else, then ONE train line that connects them both, is that a sufficient network? 00:58:08 <TartarusMkII> also do I ahve to set transfers, or does picking up and dropping off simply WORK? 00:58:32 <FLHerne> It simply WORKS :D 00:58:41 <FLHerne> I really love CDist 00:59:04 <FLHerne> You don't *need* a network as such 00:59:27 <FLHerne> If you have two totally unconnected cities, passengers will just pootle around between the stops in each city 00:59:55 <FLHerne> If you then put a train line between them, a percentage of the passengers from each city will want to go to somewhere in the other one 01:00:06 <FLHerne> Depending on the distance and your settings 01:00:16 <TartarusMkII> hm 01:00:29 <TartarusMkII> so do passengers with destinations only get created in point A if there is a path to B in the first place? 01:00:43 <TartarusMkII> so if I do have two inner city bus systems not connected, will no one ever even ask to go to the other city? 01:00:51 <Flygon> CargoDist is a blessing and a curse 01:00:54 <FLHerne> And what's a 'sufficient' network for that depends on how many of them there are and how big the trains are and blah 01:00:59 <FLHerne> Exactly 01:01:02 <Flygon> It utterly overwhelms Tram networks when a city is really roaring 01:01:15 <FLHerne> Flygon: Yes, but then you get to build little circular metros! 01:01:43 <Flygon> Still gotta fill the gaps the Metros don't 01:01:44 <Flygon> And even then 01:01:56 <Flygon> The Metros are painful to build due to the fact that... well 01:02:03 <Flygon> You can't just plop them in underground 01:03:11 <FLHerne> You can to an extent http://i.imgur.com/RZ0XNp5.png 01:03:19 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-252-133.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 01:03:56 <FLHerne> I find that a circular metro with radial tram lines going outward through each stop balances quite well 01:04:50 <TartarusMkII> cute trams'r cute. 01:05:14 <TartarusMkII> I have the dutch station GRF, and I notice it has a metro set of station squares, that make it look like stairs going down under the ground. DO these serve some kind of purpose? 01:05:36 <FLHerne> The point I was trying to make were the little tube trains hiding in the middle (but trams are cute) 01:05:42 <FLHerne> Nope, they just look pretty 01:05:45 <Eddi|zuHause> no, they just look that way 01:07:48 <FLHerne> Most of the large trainsets have some form of 'metro' train 01:08:12 <FLHerne> Slow but high acceleration, high-capacity, very short loading/unloading times 01:08:16 <TartarusMkII> I guess they can be used to extend other stations' passenger pick up area? 01:08:30 <TartarusMkII> so in a bigger city, they might look like a metro, Iguess?.. 01:08:45 <FLHerne> You could, but that's sort of cheating :P 01:08:49 <TartarusMkII> X3 01:09:56 <TartarusMkII> By the way thanks a ton for talking to me about this, I've never played TTD, so to have people explain the mods and such makes the game so much more fun. 01:10:35 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-182-99.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:10:59 <FLHerne> Mostly you just use those sorts of tiles to make things look nice :-) 01:11:14 <FLHerne> Dutch tiles for tube terminus http://i.imgur.com/jDYJytb.png 01:12:10 <FLHerne> Perhaps if you had one station on tunnels over another one, or had it as an entrance to a subway accessed by the platform stairs? 01:13:26 <TartarusMkII> I love that design, man 01:13:30 <TartarusMkII> are these from your games? 01:15:34 <FLHerne> Yes 01:16:51 <TartarusMkII> I'd love to see more screen shots if you felt like taking them! 01:16:55 <TartarusMkII> You make stuff look quite nice. 01:17:09 <TartarusMkII> Any of your networks or interchanges and stuff too, or loading for industries, if you don't mind? <3! 01:18:08 <FLHerne> I do have a screenshot thread (that I haven't updated for ages :-/ ) 01:18:17 <Supercheese> you could check out the screenshot section of the forum 01:18:18 <FLHerne> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=58712&sid=c144844f34bb18e99f0ad76f813950f1 01:18:32 <FLHerne> And yes, that entire subforum is probably worth looking at 01:19:31 <FLHerne> I stole a lot of ideas from "Dr B Ching" on there, and probably unconsciously from everyone else 01:23:06 <TartarusMkII> awesome thanks guys 01:24:12 *** DanMacK [~3265a604@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:25:40 <FLHerne> Aargh, it's 2am 01:25:47 <FLHerne> Should sleep, goodnight 01:26:09 <TartarusMkII> goodnight 01:26:11 <TartarusMkII> thanks again! 01:26:20 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 01:40:58 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:59:50 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2.221.246.223] has joined #openttd 02:10:01 *** Pikka [~Octomom@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:16:04 *** DDR [~david@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 02:21:31 <Flygon_> FLHerne: About that 02:21:42 <Flygon_> It always bothered me how the Dutch set never had more 'intermediatory' tiles 02:21:45 <Flygon_> eg. shelter 02:21:47 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon 02:21:54 <Flygon> As in... 02:21:56 <Flygon> Like in the tube pic 02:33:08 <TartarusMkII> He's long gone my friend! 02:50:30 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd 03:11:25 <Flygon> Oh 03:11:30 <Flygon> vittuperkele D: 03:11:40 * Flygon goes shoots Myst Cases then 03:58:42 <TartarusMkII> For Cargodist, do you guys prefer symmetrical or asymmetrical/> 04:01:40 <Supercheese> I prefer manual... 04:03:52 <Sylf> ditto 04:04:53 <TartarusMkII> how come? And I more so mean for mail and passengers rather than cargo 04:04:58 <Pikka> symmetrical for passengers and mail, asymmetrical for freight. :) 04:05:51 <TartarusMkII> why for freight? 04:06:02 <Sylf> cargodist makes me pull my hair. My hair's already getting thin without the added stress. 04:07:59 <JezK> i've been using asymmetrical, but i don't really understand the difference 04:08:15 <JezK> Sylf, it seems to make more sense to me than the default system 04:08:24 <JezK> stuff wants to go to a place, get it there 04:08:45 <Sylf> we play very different style of game. 04:10:56 <JezK> the only time i get stressed is when signals aren't doing what i think they should be doing 04:14:37 <TartarusMkII> Hm 04:15:00 <TartarusMkII> I notice that a lot of FLHerne's screenshots involve some kinds of stations that actually show items on the platforms 04:15:08 <TartarusMkII> like stones, grain, or even what looks like tiny people? 04:15:50 *** supermop [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:17:18 <Supercheese> yep 04:17:24 <JezK> hmm i know the japanese stations do that, it's cute 04:17:26 <Supercheese> some stations do that, like ISR 04:17:50 <Supercheese> and mb's NewStations 04:19:15 <TartarusMkII> does it know what is supposed to be there? =O 04:19:51 <TartarusMkII> And I can't find "Newstations" 04:20:41 <kamnet> Morning 04:21:03 <kamnet> MB's NewStations are on his own website. Which I'll have to Google for :D 04:21:25 <TartarusMkII> Q_Q 04:25:01 <kamnet> http://ttdpatch.de/download.html 04:25:25 <kamnet> There we go. Yeah making stations show cargo or people are a pain, so most coders don't bother with it. 04:25:59 <kamnet> Michael Blunk does, OzTrans did, some ISR tiles do. That's pretty much it. 04:26:25 <Sylf> I want to see YETI crowding stations 04:27:04 <TartarusMkII> how do I install this?" I only know how to use the ingame downloader 04:27:12 <TartarusMkII> but ty very much! 04:27:21 <Sylf> Windows? Linux? Mac? 04:29:22 <kamnet> In your OpenTTD folder create a folder named "newgrf" and drop it there. 04:30:11 <kamnet> You'll need to unpack .zip files, but if it's in a .tar file you can leave it packed. You can have subfolders inside the newgrf folder as well to organize your stuff. 04:30:12 <Sylf> Assuming you're on Windows... You download the Windows version of the file from the site, open it with some zip program (like winzip, 7-zip etc), and extract the .grf file to c:\Users\<username>\My Documents\openttd\newgrf 04:30:54 <Sylf> On Linux, the directory is ~/.openttd/newgrf 04:31:11 <Sylf> I'm clueless about Mac 04:32:16 <JezK> probably same as linux 04:33:12 <Sylf> It's not exactly the same from what I remember 04:33:38 <Sylf> It may be BSD variant, but it's different enough. 04:40:10 <TartarusMkII> hi sorry, had to step out, thanks for the help! 04:40:45 <TartarusMkII> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=162327 04:40:56 <TartarusMkII> so is this just him making unescessarily shaped stations for looks? 04:49:40 *** supermop [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:34 <TartarusMkII> my newgrf fodler is empty- where did all fhte GRFs I downloaded in-game go? =O 04:53:38 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@ppp118-209-106-233.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 04:55:08 <TartarusMkII> nvm, either way, they showed up. woot. 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66139.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66947.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:00:44 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-252-133.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:01:05 <kamnet> The files you downloaded from in-game are kept in the content_download directory. Don't mess with them tehre. 05:01:16 * TartarusMkII messed with them,!!!! 05:01:25 *** Alkel_U3 [~alkel@178.17.8.174] has joined #openttd 05:03:04 *** supermop [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:07:00 <Supercheese> :O 05:18:56 *** Pereba [~UserNick@186.212.161.21] has quit [Quit: Have you found any easter egg in AdiIRC? [www.adiirc.com]] 05:19:56 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-51-52.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 05:26:43 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@ppp118-209-106-233.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:37:58 <kamnet> DON"T MESS WITH THEM! YOU'RE TEMPTING THE FATES OF CHRIS SAWYER!!!! 06:00:52 <TartarusMkII> What kind of city expansion setting do you guys recomend? 06:01:04 <TartarusMkII> I dont have it set to the default, I ahve it set to 'improved' I think.. 06:03:53 <kamnet> I let it randomly select 06:05:56 <TartarusMkII> I feel like it's hard to extend the roads of towns then, because you don't know whic hway they want it to go. 06:06:09 <TartarusMkII> And if it's set to random, does it choose randomly for the whole map, or town by town? 06:07:04 <kamnet> town by town. 06:07:22 <TartarusMkII> ah thats cool 06:08:01 <kamnet> If the game founds a town as a 3x3 grid, it will always expand on that. With original or improved, you never know what you'll get for sure, but landscape will dictate much of how it grows 06:11:57 *** supermop_ [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:12:06 <TartarusMkII> if I build roads for it, will they brach off of my roads, or get all confused? 06:12:12 <TartarusMkII> if it is improved or original, I mean 06:13:48 <Supercheese> I believe towns will use any road(s) you give them 06:18:03 *** supermop [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:18:46 <TartarusMkII> interesting! 06:18:50 <TartarusMkII> Thanks again 06:22:41 <TartarusMkII> Hm, any nice GRFs that give towns more buildings to choose from to build? 06:23:18 <Supercheese> Total Town Replacement Set (TTRS) 06:23:21 <Supercheese> Swedish Houses 06:23:23 <Supercheese> ECS Houses 06:23:28 <Supercheese> those spring to mind 06:23:38 <Supercheese> Japan Set should also have houses 06:23:58 <TartarusMkII> Can they be used together? 06:24:17 <Supercheese> I use the first 3 together 06:24:22 <kamnet> Yep. I pretty much use just about all of them. 06:24:25 <Supercheese> they work fine but I cannot speak for Japan set 06:24:51 <kamnet> Most sets offer lots of buildings for Temperate. I've found much fewer for the other climates, and even fewer for eras outside of 1950 to 2050 06:24:59 <TartarusMkII> awesome, thanks! 06:30:38 <TartarusMkII> so now my roads look like this.. And I am wondering, do they ev er change? Or look more advanced than just slabs of stone? 06:30:53 <TartarusMkII> http://gyazo.com/38fbec6fbd99db8d9392f285c599c32e 06:35:21 <Supercheese> I think those are TTRS roads? If so they should change at some point 06:35:32 <Supercheese> start a new game with the same grf configuration in the year 1990 or later to check 06:35:52 <Supercheese> not that they change in 1990, just it's well past when they should 06:36:16 <TartarusMkII> sure sure, good idea 06:36:50 <TartarusMkII> out of curiosity, what is a good time to start the game when you don't have things specifically made for pre-industrial stuff? 06:37:20 <TartarusMkII> And yes, they do change, awesome. 06:44:02 *** DDR [~david@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 06:50:19 <TartarusMkII> Also, Is there any way to see like, an overlay of sorts to see where catchment areas are? So I can see where of a city might not be getting cvoered? 06:52:59 <kamnet> TTRS roads flip over in 1950. I think you can configure them to flip earlier. It won't show in-game until you reload it, though. 06:54:53 <kamnet> There really isn't a lot of good content for the game before 1950 and after 2050, the classic TTD eras. Artists and coders have only been coming around to those earlier and later eras in the last few years. FIRS has coded support for earlier stuff and the later stuff, but the graphics are still based in mid-20th century 06:55:29 <kamnet> You might eventually convince Andy to update them, especially if you can draw close to his style :D 06:56:48 <TartarusMkII> Okay, that's cool 06:56:50 <TartarusMkII> thanks 06:56:56 <TartarusMkII> And about the area? 07:04:16 <TartarusMkII> And I notice wit hcargo dist on the passengers, they all rteally want to go to the 'central' terminal really bad, but idk why.. 07:04:21 <TartarusMkII> Seems so strange 07:07:14 <TartarusMkII> I made 4 stations around a big city, and the trams have orders to simply stop at each 4 then repeat 07:07:26 <TartarusMkII> but it seems like there is a huge build up at the last station. I wonder what I'm doing wrong 07:10:25 <TartarusMkII> the stations all ahve hundreds of passengers EXCEPT the first stop... 07:10:28 <TartarusMkII> which has like, none 07:19:15 *** Celestar [~Celestar@x5d85b5d3.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 07:20:39 <TartarusMkII> http://gyazo.com/13cd5390a6291123fb0c57aa7cba0869 07:24:39 <TartarusMkII> any thoughts? 07:28:20 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 07:31:17 *** Celestar [~Celestar@x5d85b5d3.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:32:44 <kamnet> No there's not automatic way to view serviced areas in vanilla OpenTTD. There is a patch, it's a bit CPU hungry but it works okay. best you can do in vanilla is to turn on display of station cachement in the station placement screen to see where it will cover. 07:34:22 <V453000> which is quite a shame. 07:34:27 <kamnet> If you have CargoDist enabled, then you're not doing anything wrong. cD sends cargo to available destinations through your existing networks. 07:35:11 <kamnet> I'm going to guess that the area covering "central" has a high number of buildings which can accept passengers, and thus it's the popular destination 07:42:50 *** Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has joined #openttd 07:45:37 <TartarusMkII> okay thanks c: 07:50:36 <TartarusMkII> I see one dock that uses fish to make food, but I can't figure out where to get fish from? 07:51:28 <kamnet> from a fishing ground 07:51:35 <kamnet> out in the water 07:51:52 <kamnet> build long trains to harvest them. 07:52:13 *** Pikka [~Octomom@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:52:14 <TartarusMkII> long trains? 07:52:45 <TartarusMkII> also, this is happening again, the passenger imbalance is now in differences of 500 or so passengers 0_o I am thinkign that trying to make a closed circle with the way my orders are set just wont work 07:52:45 <TartarusMkII> http://gyazo.com/3aab7ed0aacb9d78e7b8f9e96657a6bd 07:53:06 <TartarusMkII> http://gyazo.com/da4375e2621f154a51cde5968bdea7c0 07:55:37 <kamnet> They might improve some if you make direct routes, but you may likely find that even if you do that, passengers still prefer to ride the loop and go via the other stations 07:55:53 <argoneus> good monday morning train friends 07:56:11 <kamnet> morning 07:56:30 <TartarusMkII> morning 07:56:43 <kamnet> And, yes, long trains. Because nobody wants to see a bunch of short trains trying to swim in the ocean. It's tedious and unimpressive. 07:56:43 <argoneus> eyoo 07:57:03 <TartarusMkII> Also, I see sandbanks and title-less platforms in the ocean, but clickign them says they accept passengers, but produce nothing?.. 07:57:08 <V453000> I dont see how is train length relevant with fishing :D 07:57:18 <kamnet> Unless you're playing Iron Horse. Then you cackle with glee every time something ddrowns. 07:57:23 <argoneus> guess what time it is 07:57:23 <V453000> xd 07:57:36 <TartarusMkII> =] 07:57:55 <kamnet> I don't have to guess. The channel tells me what time it is on every post :D 07:58:01 <argoneus> it's ideaguying time 07:58:03 <kamnet> [03:57] argoneus guess what time it is 07:58:06 <argoneus> openttd needs rollercoasters 07:58:16 <TartarusMkII> lol 07:58:39 <kamnet> You building them? 07:59:07 <V453000> Warning: Channel has been polluted with stupid ideas without anybody actually working on them. Do you wish to quit? [Y/N] 07:59:50 <kamnet> Nobody's ever finished making the Funfair objects. Wish he hadn't disappeared. :( 08:00:20 <kamnet> SAC made some a decade ago and still hasn't published them. 08:00:31 <TartarusMkII> Hey guys, lets expand toylan -ban- 08:02:15 <kamnet> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=51681 08:10:46 *** Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has left #openttd [] 08:12:52 *** Pikka [~Octomom@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:14:32 <supermop_> re-learning grasshopper 08:24:48 <planetmaker> TartarusMkII, toyland is seriously under-rated. And the most complex default game concerning industries 08:24:57 <TartarusMkII> How so? 08:25:16 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 08:25:33 <planetmaker> look at the chains. And look at the individual industries on how they work / look. It's the most complicated in terms of that 08:25:57 <Pikka> it's still not very complicated though :P 08:26:13 <planetmaker> sprites are re-coloured, there's different animations... and yes :) I just saw we can now have even more industries ;) 08:27:54 <TartarusMkII> hehe 08:30:12 <supermop_> even more industries...? 08:30:15 <V453000> asdf 08:30:27 <supermop_> why 08:30:37 <supermop_> i mean i know why 08:37:32 <planetmaker> I mean that, supermop_ : http://hg.openttd.org/trunk.hg/rev/334852e99610 08:41:43 <supermop_> that is a lot of industries 08:41:56 <supermop_> still the same amount of cargo though? 08:47:45 <planetmaker> yup 08:48:05 <planetmaker> increasing those is a lot more difficult :) 08:49:05 <V453000> what do we need moar industries for? firs economies?:P 08:56:56 <planetmaker> no clue. I was offline 14 days straight 08:57:10 <planetmaker> I thought *you* would tell me :P 08:57:17 <planetmaker> and feared it might relate to yeti ;) 08:57:39 <Pikka> it's so people can use every industry set at once 08:57:40 <Pikka> clearly 08:58:49 <V453000> oh that XD 08:58:50 <V453000> k 08:59:01 <planetmaker> yeah... or possibly to avoid the problem with the port industries and the industry chain graph 08:59:12 <planetmaker> (deliberately ignoring the irony ;) 08:59:20 <V453000> pm yeti uses 16 industries and I say it all the time that sensible system > 25478 industries 08:59:49 <V453000> :P 09:04:36 *** TartarusMkII [4574c043@107.161.19.53] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 09:06:03 <supermop_> maxwell seems very counter-intuitive to me so far 09:15:10 <supermop_> im just going to pay someone else to do this 10:15:37 <kamnet> planetmaker, if I remember correctly, a week or so ago Andythenorth mentioned he was over the industry limit while trying to reorganize industry IDs, frosch123 looked into it and determined it was a limit that could be raised and couldn't find a reason why it was set where it was. 10:23:01 <V453000> interesting solution supermop_ :P 10:27:05 <supermop_> its such i pain V453000 10:27:26 <supermop_> i figure there is a reason these guys can charge 00 per image 10:27:43 <V453000> but the advertisement page said it is easy and intuitive! :D 10:28:17 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:28:29 <supermop_> and to be honest even not counting the software - if i have to start from scratch it may well take 00 of my time - but i dont think i can bill for hours i spend banging my head against the wall 10:29:08 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 10:29:20 <supermop_> if i tell my client lets just send it to the pros, it will be 00, versus me saying hey i made some ok renders, that will be 00 please 10:33:58 <kamnet> Aha, found the conversation planetmaker: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/link/1430588020#1430588020 10:34:56 <V453000> supermop_: I think that is the time when you just need to be a good merchant and guess how much can you ask from your client 10:35:43 <supermop_> i mean i'd love to make the 00 10:36:27 <V453000> if they will pay it ... :) 10:36:44 <supermop_> but I'm already in a mild panic about trying to pick a rendered, learn how to use it, rig up the model, and get however many good shots in the next week 10:36:54 <supermop_> renderer 10:37:10 <V453000> yeah that is sub-optimal :d 10:37:18 <supermop_> thats the thing, client is a start up in fairly lean phase right now 10:37:37 <supermop_> needs good renders to show to his customers/investors to get the money 10:37:47 <supermop_> but needs the money to get the renders 10:37:49 <V453000> I understand, we do the same :) 10:37:55 <V453000> :d 10:37:59 <V453000> well :) 10:38:59 <supermop_> so of his cash that he has now, if i take too much for the render then there is less to pay for design work etc 10:39:29 <V453000> is there trial v-ray for rhino? 10:39:30 <supermop_> i think i'm too mentally stuck to make a decision 10:39:34 <supermop_> 30 days 10:39:46 <supermop_> so i could try that 10:40:01 <supermop_> im using the maxwell trial now but it leaves a watermark 10:40:08 <V453000> I can help you with that somewhat, if the interface is at least somewhat similar to my stuff 10:40:08 <V453000> lol 10:40:14 <V453000> :) 10:40:41 <supermop_> i feel like normally i could pick one of these up and learn it, but sort of in decision paralysis 10:41:04 <V453000> I understand that 10:41:44 <supermop_> esp as there are bits and pieces of modelling that still need to be done, so i keep bouncing back and forth between modelling, previewing stuff in flamingo, and trying to figure out new sofftware 10:42:07 <V453000> can rhino make an export to max? 10:42:12 <V453000> if yes I can do the render for you 10:42:14 <V453000> if not, hm :) 10:42:23 <supermop_> i can export as 3ds no problem 10:42:46 <supermop_> all of my furniture is 3ds models imported as blocks 10:42:50 <V453000> :) 10:43:59 <supermop_> i tried brushing up on grasshopper today to replace my ceiling system with a parametricaly generated thing mostly to procrastinate 10:47:52 <supermop_> i wonder if i can use grasshopper to make trams 10:48:11 <V453000> :D 11:06:38 <argoneus> V453000 in a nutshell: :) :D :) :) :D :) :) 11:07:05 <V453000> I absolutely agree 11:07:38 <argoneus> :D 11:07:51 <argoneus> will you invite me to your marriage? 11:08:27 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has joined #openttd 11:08:32 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:08:35 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 11:11:23 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-6-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:29:03 *** DDR [~david@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:38 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest4820 11:32:43 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 11:38:12 *** Guest4820 [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:40:46 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 11:57:32 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-51-52.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:58:06 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-51-52.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 12:56:21 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 13:26:09 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:30:53 *** supermop_ [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:31:09 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 13:43:34 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:54:39 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 13:56:30 *** roidal [~roland@cm140-210.liwest.at] has joined #openttd 14:39:52 *** Pikka [~Octomom@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:40 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 14:54:43 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 15:00:39 <V453000> since I dont even know you, probably not? :) 15:00:43 <V453000> or do I :) 15:06:45 <Alberth> nobody knows mr X 15:08:22 <V453000> !! 15:31:35 *** StudioPonozka [~Sockman@95-143-140-33.client.ltnet.cz] has joined #openttd 15:33:12 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.101.227] has joined #openttd 15:36:41 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [] 15:38:03 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.101.227] has joined #openttd 15:44:50 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 15:54:40 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:56:10 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.172.202] has joined #openttd 15:58:57 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:01:28 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:04:23 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 16:06:27 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f746a91.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 16:11:29 <frosch123> planetmaker: it's for firs 16:11:43 <frosch123> firs has > 70 industries now, the economies select some subsets of them 16:12:34 <frosch123> previously andy would have to assign dynamic ids to the same industry in different economies 16:12:42 <frosch123> which would have resulted in a terrible monologue in this channel 16:12:48 <frosch123> so i better extended the id range :p 16:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> that would have been easier, if there were GRM for industries ;) 16:13:57 <frosch123> wrong 16:14:11 <frosch123> grm is for global ids, industry ids were never global 16:15:06 <frosch123> grm would be for cargos, if sets wouldn't use them all anyway :p 16:15:45 <Eddi|zuHause> well, sets tried to leave one free for regearing and stuff... 16:15:54 <frosch123> actually, even cargos would use local ids with translation tables 16:15:59 <frosch123> so sprites are the only valid usecase for grm 16:17:30 <Eddi|zuHause> huh? i don't think cargo translation tables apply to sets defining cargos, only sets using cargos 16:17:56 <planetmaker> hehe, frosch123 :) I nearly thought so. And yes, I like it 16:18:33 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yes, currently, but if cargo amount would be extended, it would be done like railtypes 16:18:51 <planetmaker> it might also and especially obsolete the need for variable acceptance / output of cargoes for industries like the ports. Just use different ports and the cargo chain view is unbroken again 16:19:03 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.105.105] has joined #openttd 16:19:55 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.105.105] has joined #openttd 16:20:07 <Terkhen> hello 16:20:09 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: railtypes work in a way that assigns them a random id, as long as one is free? 16:20:20 <planetmaker> hi T :) 16:20:25 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that could still use DRM to check whether there are free slots left 16:20:30 <Eddi|zuHause> err 16:20:31 <Eddi|zuHause> GRM 16:20:33 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yes, like industries, houses, objects, ... 16:21:03 <frosch123> yes, it could 16:21:10 <frosch123> but i doubt anyone would care 16:21:17 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.105.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25:04 * planetmaker would not. Most likely :P 16:34:13 <Alberth> hi hi, good point about industry chain window 16:35:00 <frosch123> same for smallamp 16:35:03 <frosch123> *smallmap 16:36:19 <Alberth> smallmap legend explodes doesn't it? it lists industries 16:36:46 <Alberth> I often wish I have a cargo to select instead 16:36:55 <frosch123> yes, but you can distingish industries producing different things 16:36:59 <Alberth> iirc I tried that once, but it didn't work nicely 16:37:24 <frosch123> i wondered about dynamically changing colours 16:37:50 <frosch123> like producing/accepting when linked to cargo chain wnidow 16:39:27 <Alberth> don't think that would work, I often want a specific industry, rather than all 16:40:14 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27280 trunk/src/base_consist.cpp (2015-05-11 18:40:06 +0200 ) 16:40:15 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r24998): Cloning/autoreplace/autorenew did not copy custom service intervals. (Johnnei) 16:40:48 <Alberth> haha, shows how often custom intervals are used :p 16:40:50 <planetmaker> I'm a bit sad that adf88 doesn't join this channel 16:40:58 <planetmaker> hehe, yeah. Not so often it seems :) 16:43:54 *** Alkel_U3 [~alkel@178.17.8.174] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 16:47:10 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:50:10 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 16:50:57 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:51:00 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:53:11 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27281 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2015-05-11 18:53:05 +0200 ) 16:53:13 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Do not shadow local variables with other local variables in sub-scopes. 16:54:34 <glx> hello 16:55:01 <frosch123> hoi 16:58:16 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27282 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2015-05-11 18:58:09 +0200 ) 16:58:17 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6254]: Enforce the company's default service intervals when purchasing another company. (Johnnei) 17:04:41 *** Alkel_U3 [~alkel@178.17.8.174] has joined #openttd 17:05:13 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:18:58 <kamnet> Oh, that's a good fix! 17:20:49 <planetmaker> those are hidden ones which with zero chance are detected in patch packs :) 17:22:18 * Rubidium has a feeling he knows a patch pack that will contain that patch ;) 17:25:02 *** StudioPonozka [~Sockman@95-143-140-33.client.ltnet.cz] has quit [Quit: Buj] 17:25:13 <kamnet> Why wouldn't a patch pack enforce service intervals? 17:28:08 <planetmaker> it would. But finding it in a patch pack is very unlikely given the difference in user base. Nothing more I wanted to hint at 17:28:48 <frosch123> planetmaker: in that case we need a new category for samu bugs :) 17:29:24 <planetmaker> :) 17:31:14 <Taede> ello 17:32:21 *** mgfp [~oftc-webi@69.Red-2-136-136.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 17:34:38 *** mgfp [~oftc-webi@69.Red-2-136-136.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #openttd [] 17:34:52 <Taede> planetmaker, i added the files to fs#6298 17:38:57 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:39:08 <Wolf01> o/ 17:41:18 <frosch123> woof 17:42:42 *** strachan [~oftc-webi@host-78-148-93-142.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 17:42:53 <strachan> hey everyone :D 17:43:17 <frosch123> hoi 17:44:00 <strachan> I see there's a 'Dont ask to ask' policy here so ill just ask: how do you add/remove GRF's in the scenario editor...can't figure it out :s 17:45:02 <Wolf01> there is also a "do not remove grfs from a game" policy 17:45:21 <Taede> or add for that matter 17:45:32 <V453000> removing is even worse :D 17:45:35 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27283 /trunk/src/lang (belarusian.txt brazilian_portuguese.txt) (2015-05-11 19:45:26 +0200 ) 17:45:36 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:37 <DorpsGek> belarusian - 4 changes by KorneySan 17:45:38 <DorpsGek> brazilian_portuguese - 20 changes by Tucalipe 17:46:29 <Wolf01> but if that's a scenario (not a savegame) with a decorative grf which don't alter the functionality, you might run ottd as a developer, but that's not my business 17:46:59 <frosch123> it's a hidden setting 17:47:09 <frosch123> scenario_developer_tools or something 17:47:28 <strachan> so i gotta make a whole world map and build it all with the GRF's i want...and to change trainsets etc I got to build it again from the heightmap upwards? 17:47:46 <strachan> (and thanks for your help, much appreciated ;) ) 17:48:26 <frosch123> you can use the hidden setting 17:48:31 <frosch123> but there is no proper solution 17:49:13 <strachan> thats cool, thanks! 17:50:29 <strachan> bonus question: are there any grf packs that contain multiple sets of grfs so you can get around the limit? 17:51:36 <strachan> I like scenery 17:52:10 <frosch123> no, some people even split their grfs for marketing purposes 17:52:11 <planetmaker> there is no patch pack which gets around that limit without destroying multiplayer 17:52:32 <planetmaker> the limit is a networking limit. And 63... is A LOT of newgrfs 17:53:43 <strachan> it is, and i only play LAN games but with the scenery, multiple vehicle sets and town replacement etc I find its just not enough... 17:53:57 <planetmaker> LAN is also network. 17:54:52 <V453000> marketing purposes XD 17:55:13 <glx> planetmaker: the question was not patch pack but grf pack :) 17:56:44 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19502.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:57:11 <planetmaker> :) grf pack... there's only one. Ancient. Not useful anymore. The others of significance are all on bananas :) 17:58:01 <strachan> I have probably all of bananas haha 17:58:04 <frosch123> also the ancient one was no "grf pack" as in using one grf slot 17:59:23 <strachan> do you guys prefer ECS or FIRS? 17:59:51 <glx> ECS is silly with the landscape requirements 18:00:27 <strachan> honestly never used ECS other than once and wasn't fond of it...just curious if im missing something 18:00:40 <strachan> what landscape requirements? 18:05:53 <strachan> nevermind, i think i know what you mean. Oh well, thanks guys. Ill no doubt be back at some point ;) 18:06:29 *** strachan [~oftc-webi@host-78-148-93-142.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:09:03 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 18:13:40 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:19:23 *** sim642 [~simmo@205-29-190-90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd 18:22:07 <sim642> I'll just ask this instead of wasting ages trying to dig into the source: If I want to code an OpenTTD server chat and IRC bridge, which pieces of the networking protocol do I actually need if I don't care about the rest? 18:22:49 <frosch123> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/soap <- why not use an existing one? 18:23:48 <frosch123> it does not need to modify the ottd source btw 18:23:58 <frosch123> ottd has an interface for such things 18:24:18 <kamnet> Didn't somebody already do that, though? 18:24:39 <frosch123> i think there are at least 5 such things 18:24:55 <frosch123> python, java, c#, and other weird languages 18:24:56 <sim642> If you're referring me to existing projects I assume it isn't the easiest thing to do without prior knowledge? 18:25:42 <sim642> I know I don't need to modify ottd source, I just looked at it to understand how to poll server status with UDP but that doesn't give me chat I think 18:25:46 <frosch123> if you want to start from scratch, your starting point is: http://hg.openttd.org/trunk.hg/file/edf3ecd8ac34/docs/admin_network.txt 18:26:13 <frosch123> but as said, there are already 5+ solutions 18:32:27 *** roidal [~roland@cm140-210.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 18:38:09 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 18:40:23 <andythenorth> lo 18:40:31 <Alberth> moin 18:40:50 <kamnet> moin! 18:41:07 <Wolf01> o/ 18:45:13 <kamnet> sim642: Here's what I was thinking of http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Autopilot 18:47:08 <frosch123> autopilot is deprecated, soap is the successor 18:49:45 <Rubidium> sim642: providing chat with a bot that is being connected as a normal client to openttd is quite cumbersome, since it requires you to implement certain parts of being a game client. Furthermore the game client protocol is unstable, so the admin protocol is a more reliable way to get a chat bridge going 18:54:11 *** Alkel_U3 [~alkel@178.17.8.174] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 18:59:07 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2.221.246.223] has quit [Quit: To robbery, slaughter, plunder they give the lying name of empire; they make a desert and call it peace.] 18:59:28 <kamnet> somebody on the coop wiki should indicate ont he page that autopilot is depreciated :D 19:00:59 <V453000> hmff 19:02:21 <V453000> done 19:03:38 <V453000> asdf 19:03:58 <frosch123> what have you done? :ÃŒp 19:04:34 <V453000> spam filter seems to be too smart and wont let me do the thing 19:04:48 <V453000> we had some problems with spam earlier :D 19:04:59 <frosch123> does it detect "V453000" as a randomly generated spam user? 19:05:06 <V453000> probably not : 19:05:07 <V453000> ) 19:06:44 <V453000> btw frosch123 have you tried any fiddling with the CC algorithm for 32bpp? 19:06:54 <frosch123> no :) 19:07:02 <V453000> =( 19:07:03 <V453000> sad 19:23:29 *** supermop [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 19:26:13 *** Pereba [~UserNick@189.115.216.194.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 19:31:33 *** supermop [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:35:51 <kamnet> 2CC 32bpp Yeti Dudes? 19:36:09 *** Johnnei [~Johnnei@D9783BEE.cm-3-1a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:37:12 <frosch123> how can i transpose a selection of cells in libreoffice calc? :) 19:38:01 <frosch123> ah, copy+paste transposed 19:38:18 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:28 <Alberth> secret keys :p 19:47:20 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 19:50:08 <frosch123> @base 10 16 198 19:50:09 <DorpsGek> frosch123: C6 19:51:30 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 19:59:56 *** Johnnei [~Johnnei@D9783BEE.cm-3-1a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:01:43 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 20:02:51 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:06:47 <frosch123> yellow is weird 20:09:49 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:14:47 <frosch123> V453000: https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/companycolours.png <- yellow and orange are weird 20:15:18 <peter1138> dark green worries me :p 20:15:56 <frosch123> yeah, misclicked somewhen apparently 20:16:08 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.102.35] has joined #openttd 20:17:35 <Rubidium> frosch123: orange actually looks like red and blue swap at #5, assuming the angle of #3-#4 is continued and an & 255 is performed 20:18:09 <peter1138> And yeah, that's why using 1 single remap colour in 32bpp graphics looks like shit. 20:18:42 <frosch123> peter1138: i think about ignoring the map colour, and instead map the "brightness" to the linear interpolation of those curves 20:19:00 <frosch123> i.e. all company colours map to those curves 20:19:03 <peter1138> Fun. 20:19:29 <peter1138> Maths because artists are lazy :D 20:20:01 <frosch123> kind of like providing separate palettes for company colours and using the brightness as palette index 20:20:42 <frosch123> Rubidium: i guess it just goes towards white when red is maxed 20:21:17 <peter1138> Could be awkward mapping it so that 8bpp stuff works normally. May depend when it's mapped. 20:21:58 <frosch123> it's essentially a new blitter mode 20:22:11 <frosch123> we already have special ones for crashed/transparent 20:22:25 <frosch123> there can as well be special ones for company colours 20:22:35 <frosch123> which are activated when the cc remaps are used 20:22:55 <frosch123> ofc only when not using sse :p 20:25:37 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@000128fa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:26:07 <peter1138> Quite. 20:26:51 <peter1138> Annoyingly remapping on load would be most efficient... 20:27:11 <peter1138> If only you knew it was always remapped with CC, at that point. 20:27:49 <frosch123> 256 times the sprite cache usage :p 20:28:13 <peter1138> :) 20:28:23 <planetmaker> :) Otoh, might even work ;) 20:28:37 <peter1138> True, I was only thinking of remapping the CC to the 8 CC bits, but yeah. 20:28:58 <peter1138> planetmaker, 256 along with 4x zoom... :D 20:29:14 <peter1138> OpenTTD requirements, 64GB RAM... 20:29:23 <frosch123> i make the drawing rather multithreaded :p 20:29:42 <peter1138> Or, get the artists to draw it properly ;) 20:43:25 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 20:47:41 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose that's what over half a century of brainwashing do to a country: http://www.les-crises.fr/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/poll-france-nations-contribution-nazis-defeat-1.jpg 20:53:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.172.202] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:53:46 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 20:58:39 <__ln__> at least they hopefully know which country was fighting against which. 20:59:45 <Terkhen> good night 21:02:23 <Wolf01> 'night 21:02:35 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:06:42 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:51 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@D97B8CD4.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 21:17:35 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@000128fa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:17:38 *** mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by ChanServ 21:22:48 *** Rubidium_ [~Rubidium@92.222.33.193] has joined #openttd 21:22:48 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@000128fa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:28 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f746a91.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:27:13 *** DDR [~david@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 21:30:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19502.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:43 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 22:09:05 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:18:18 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 22:18:38 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:06:19 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:11:48 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 23:11:51 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 23:15:56 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 23:16:17 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:19:34 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2.221.246.223] has joined #openttd 23:42:50 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]