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00:05:03 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:25 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:55:54 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-117-186.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 00:59:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6B9DA.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:05:01 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:46:07 *** DDR_ [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 01:46:07 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:10:39 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 02:21:37 *** JGR_ [~JGR@host86-174-44-192.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 02:24:29 *** JGR [~JGR@host86-157-152-106.range86-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:24:29 *** JGR_ is now known as JGR 02:55:03 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:42:55 *** gelignite_ [~gelignite@mue-88-130-76-157.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 03:50:19 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-117-186.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:54:15 *** gelignite_ [~gelignite@mue-88-130-76-157.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 04:05:41 *** DDR_ [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC6791E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4861.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:42:36 *** roidal [~roland@193-154-136-41.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 05:43:34 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 05:43:37 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 06:48:45 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 06:56:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:56:45 <andythenorth> o 06:56:49 <andythenorth> o/ 06:57:37 <Alberth> moin 06:58:57 * andythenorth must to trams 06:59:22 <andythenorth> Alberth: are you playing a game currently? o_O 07:01:11 <Alberth> yep, your firs try thingie 07:01:34 <Alberth> and I had a quick go with baldys boss game, but it's hopeless, so many things to fix :p 07:02:11 <Alberth> and he has tooooooo many engines, no idea what to use there :p 07:02:55 <andythenorth> he :) 07:03:05 <Alberth> if you don't want to raise infra structure costs, it's going to be a challenge though 07:05:35 <andythenorth> :) 07:09:09 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/Chunshaw Ridge Transport, 1942-09-27.sav 07:09:33 <Alberth> doing some restructuring of the tracks :) 07:09:56 * andythenorth dares to look 07:10:07 *** supermop [~supermop@udp077717uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #openttd 07:12:36 <Alberth> this is the firs thingie :) 07:12:49 <Alberth> you have seen an earier version before 07:13:46 <andythenorth> yeah :) 07:13:57 * andythenorth wonders if anyone will kickstarter fund an 8bpp base set :P 07:14:15 <andythenorth> oh itâs just ogfx landscape :) 07:14:33 * andythenorth was confused 07:15:27 <Alberth> the oil refinery in the south has a timber yard right next door, I see now 07:16:24 <andythenorth> something is adding rocks to water 07:16:25 <andythenorth> interesting 07:16:28 <Alberth> just 12 tiles :) 07:17:16 <Alberth> yeah, and they show up at the map too, I am getting confused about water industries :p 07:18:01 <andythenorth> eh, accepting that the game allows many play styles etc blah blah blah blah 07:18:05 <andythenorth> this is the right size map 07:20:57 <Alberth> :) 07:22:14 <andythenorth> are you following Bee goals? 07:29:10 <Alberth> mostly, yes 07:29:30 <Alberth> playing at a weird map size like 128x1024 can be fun too, every now and then :) 07:30:07 <mari_kiri> 128x1024 sounds kinda fun actually 07:30:34 <Alberth> but I made a mess of some tracks, so I recently re-organized then somewhat. Therefore, I am behind on goals 07:32:35 <andythenorth> long thin maps are fun 07:32:53 <Alberth> ha, as usual with me, each pair of tracks has a different idea of which one goes south-east :p 07:33:07 <andythenorth> :P 07:33:19 <andythenorth> itâs fine until you join networks 07:34:47 * andythenorth perplexed by tram generations :P 07:36:22 <V453000> sup humans 07:36:28 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-76-157.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 07:36:42 <V453000> still playing my no-newgrf game 07:36:44 <V453000> no big deal 07:36:45 <andythenorth> also V453000 07:37:38 <andythenorth> V453000: the game is good, right? 07:37:43 <V453000> yeah 07:38:27 <andythenorth> very few missing features? 07:38:32 <andythenorth> lots of minor crappy bits? 07:39:49 <Alberth> o/ V 07:42:28 <V453000> nah, not much new in compare to the original ;) 07:43:00 <V453000> I dont think I am utilizing a single new feature in this game 07:43:06 <V453000> k, PBS signals 07:43:09 <Alberth> playing at 256x256? 07:43:16 <V453000> 256x256 x2 07:43:21 <V453000> mirror-ish networks 07:43:26 <V453000> special scenario for blog article :P 07:43:58 <Alberth> for comparison I guess :) 07:44:02 <V453000> yes 07:44:13 <Alberth> and no copy/paste patch :p 07:44:24 <V453000> dont need that :) 07:49:06 <andythenorth> ugh 07:49:28 <andythenorth> Road Hog is going to end up with nearly 100 vehicles per roster (roster = brit, american, la la land etc) 07:53:28 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@a392.ip16.netikka.fi] has joined #openttd 07:54:31 <V453000> so what are your thoughts about kickstarter and open licenses? 07:54:32 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18E8B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:55:12 <V453000> is it the same as normal graphics? ie I provide full source except 3D models 07:55:42 <V453000> does "people pay for it and support it" make it more required to provide full source? does that make any sense? 07:56:19 *** blathijs [matthijs@tika.stderr.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:56:40 <V453000> Pikka: good luck :) I really wish you the best in this, it could be great 07:59:49 <Alberth> from GPL point of view, "source" means whatever you use to create the result, so in my view that would include the 3d models 08:00:38 <Alberth> but there is a border somewhere, eg I don't provide you with the sources of my editor either 08:02:36 <Alberth> I see kickstarter mostly as buying time for pbird to work on it full time, much like you donate to an open source project. Big difference is however that with kickstarter you get the money beforehand, or at least you know it will be there 08:03:06 <Alberth> that makes planning to do this a lot easier :) 08:05:00 <Alberth> I don't see any problems with whatever you intend to do with the result. It would be nice if you decide something about it, tell people before hand, and stick with it :) 08:05:18 <Alberth> but in the end, it's your work. 08:05:53 <Alberth> maybe you get into legal trouble if you don't do what you promised with kickstarter though, don't know 08:06:36 <Rubidium> for "simple" things that are either drawing by hand, or pure models one could see GPL as viable, but once you get into manually retouching automatically generated (i.e. from 3D models), the whole GPL "source" definition becomes murky 08:07:24 <andythenorth> wtfpl 08:07:36 <Alberth> no doubt some people will want to have access to the source afterwards, the risk is thus that not providing that access will turn those people away 08:08:21 <Alberth> Rubidium: nobody claims you don't need skill to work with the source, but yes, it's a very large grey area :) 08:08:28 <Rubidium> andythenorth: but I think that for such a large project someone does care what happens with the graphics 08:08:44 <andythenorth> well 08:08:50 *** blathijs [matthijs@tika.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 08:08:53 <andythenorth> maybe :) 08:22:26 <planetmaker> moin 08:26:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B9DA.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 08:29:59 <Alberth> hi hi 08:39:12 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18E8B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:39:29 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:39:46 <Wolf01> moin 08:40:11 <Alberth> o/ 08:41:10 <Wolf01> mmh, factorio is really a life leeching game 08:44:52 <Alberth> like TTD was orginally? :) 08:45:04 *** supermop [~supermop@udp077717uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:46:43 <Wolf01> like TTD is still, and OTT too, that's why I take it in little amounts 08:48:05 <Wolf01> I was placing a conveyor belt and .. BAM .. 4 hours disappeared. That was the same feeling I had when I tried to build a 6 lines junction with OTT 08:49:36 * andythenorth canât make factorio stick 08:49:43 <andythenorth> played an hour or so 08:51:07 <andythenorth> I can see the appeal though 08:51:07 <Wolf01> the only thing I blame is the finite amount of resources, once I finish to build an industry chain the iron/copper reources are depleted... 08:51:23 <andythenorth> yeah thatâs exactly what put me off it 08:51:54 <andythenorth> building the routes is quite fun 08:52:02 <andythenorth> but all the crafting and stuff, dunno 08:52:23 <andythenorth> also the UI for inventory / whatâs in hand / weapons / loading machines 08:52:26 <andythenorth> is really really sucky 08:52:55 <andythenorth> off-topic: would cows prefer electric or steam trams? 08:53:26 <Wolf01> my worst impression is that once you learn how to place the industry chain, all your game will be the same, because you need to save time and avoid to deplete the resources by reasoning on how to place things 08:54:34 <andythenorth> openttd has that issue 08:54:38 <andythenorth> do coal, pax 08:54:42 <andythenorth> build ro-ro stations 08:54:43 <andythenorth> win 08:54:53 <Wolf01> that the same on TT, but there is time-related, you finish to build a mainline and you need to upgrade it to concrete-sleepers-with-streamlined-catenary-poles-and-good-looking-stations because you fast forwarded of about 150 years 08:54:57 <andythenorth> but then newgrf, GS, multiplayer also 08:55:59 <Wolf01> but at least here you have something to do... once you deplete raw materials what will you do? 08:56:08 <andythenorth> win? 08:56:21 <Wolf01> maybe 08:56:31 <andythenorth> battle? 08:58:06 <andythenorth> maybe itâs the new Dwarf Fortress 08:58:14 * andythenorth has never played DF, because it would probably eat my life 08:58:30 <andythenorth> off-topic: can GS evict a player from their company? 08:58:35 <andythenorth> and if not, could we make it possible? 08:58:55 <Alberth> pause the game? 08:59:24 <andythenorth> I want the option to kick you out of your current company and make you start from scratch with a new one 08:59:30 <andythenorth> same game, same map, same point in time etc 08:59:53 <andythenorth> we donât really have that facility in single player (leave company), but we do in MP? 08:59:56 <Alberth> clean out all possessions? 09:00:17 <andythenorth> dunno what happens to the previous company 09:00:26 <andythenorth> maybe itâs liquidated, or sold to an AI 09:00:28 <andythenorth> dunno 09:00:51 <andythenorth> thinking of a 5-year plan, centrally planned economy 09:01:07 <andythenorth> âyou failed your quota for steel, you have been sent to the salt mines" 09:01:29 <andythenorth> âfortunately, in the salt mines your talent for transportation does not go unnoticed, and you start a new networkâ 09:01:40 <Alberth> phew :) 09:02:04 <Alberth> pause the game basically ends it afaik, like nogoal does at the end 09:11:32 <Pikka> moin all 09:11:52 <Wolf01> o/ 09:12:43 <Pikka> V453000, as far as GPL etc goes I think I expressed myself reasonably clearly in the thread, is it still rolling along? 09:12:45 * Pikka checks 09:13:54 * andythenorth is disappointed that more important questions are not being answered 09:14:01 <andythenorth> i.e. cows 09:14:17 <Pikka> I didn't know cows was a question 09:17:45 <Pikka> oh, those cows 09:18:14 <Pikka> cows prefer tricycles? 09:24:48 <Terkhen> hello 09:25:14 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:25:47 <andythenorth> we have tricycle trams? 09:25:49 <andythenorth> hello Terkhen 09:26:40 <Pikka> why not? 09:26:48 <Pikka> hello Terkhen also 09:27:01 <andythenorth> Pikka: youâd have to draw new tracks for me 09:27:02 <andythenorth> 'have' 09:27:07 * andythenorth has a tricycle truck 09:27:10 <andythenorth> itâs broken :( 09:27:23 <Wolf01> http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a3LqXgN_460sv.mp4 whoa what? 09:27:47 <andythenorth> http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Butch/media/Screenshot2012-07-12at094507.png.html 09:28:07 <andythenorth> Wolf01: osprey 09:28:08 <andythenorth> innit 09:28:22 <Wolf01> yes, I know the only moving part were the motors 09:28:28 <Wolf01> not the whole thing 09:28:43 <Wolf01> that's a transformer 09:29:42 * andythenorth must to family day out 09:29:51 <Pikka> have fun andythenorth :) 09:29:54 * andythenorth shall 09:29:59 <andythenorth> also sheep, electric or steam? 09:30:42 <planetmaker> ho Pikka 09:30:46 <Pikka> it depends if they're being dreamt of by androids, presumably 09:30:49 <Pikka> hello planetmaker 09:30:49 <Wolf01> the next step will be to make a c-130 trasforming to a Macross' koenig monster 09:31:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 09:31:33 <planetmaker> Actually I find your response as to the sources of the planned set a bit... lacking. It's vague at least. And IMHO not quite fit for an open-source project 09:32:54 <Pikka> how do you mean? 09:38:42 <planetmaker> I would have expected a clear license-statement along the lines of at least what V does with rawr (all sprites and code GPL licensed) instead of some talk about 'always did' and 'would give permission to someone if I were not around' 09:40:01 <planetmaker> Eddi and DigitalFox basically expressed my view on the matter 09:41:44 <Pikka> well, I've never called it an open-source project... or are you saying that non-GPL (New)GRFs aren't quite fit for OpenTTD? 09:42:36 <planetmaker> I don't say you did or you should. And they're ok. But they help OpenTTD much less than CC-BY or GPL 09:43:14 <planetmaker> Only the latter allow to bundle it with OpenTTD directly. Otherwise it's "yet another 3rd-party content". But nothing we could take and bundle and 'sell' as "this is OpenTTD" 09:44:00 <planetmaker> thus your license option bars the way to saying "OpenTTD has new default graphics". As for that, OpenTTD *does* have the license requirement eddi lined out 09:44:22 <planetmaker> which is "it has to build from source" 09:44:50 <Pikka> well then we get into the old mess of what is the "source" for graphics. If it's just the sprites, that's one thing. But plenty of people think it's not. 09:47:02 <Alberth> it's bundling perhaps? combining GPL with non-GPL is no-go, basically 09:47:14 <planetmaker> yes 09:48:24 <planetmaker> and both, V and Zeph found an answer to that very license question which works 09:48:38 <planetmaker> and both answers are much more satisfactorily than "ask me" 09:48:58 <peter1138> V's source textures are generally not open source, unless he's changed them./ 09:49:11 <planetmaker> yes. He only licenses the sprites 09:49:26 <planetmaker> which is a bit of a grey area. But much better than nothing 09:50:10 <planetmaker> not sure about his models, tho 09:51:12 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 09:53:20 <planetmaker> Anyway, Alberth is right: my main concern is the bundling one which also Eddi expressed. Which limits options on licenses (a lot). 09:53:52 <planetmaker> Pikkas answer amounts to "yes, there is one, but we cannot ship it everywhere with OpenTTD" 09:54:12 <planetmaker> as 'everywhere' implies also in debian which means 'must build from source' 09:56:57 <Pikka> I've certainly never proposed Pineapple Graphics be distributed other than via Bananas in the normal way... so I don't see the problem there. On the other hand... 09:57:02 <peter1138> Is bundling it with OpenTTD an intention? 09:57:09 <Pikka> not my intention peter1138 09:57:49 <planetmaker> peter1138, it would be a condition-sine-qua-non for my support. 09:58:27 <planetmaker> and that's all I wanted to say. If pikka is sold on not doing that - his choice. Not my beer 10:00:05 <peter1138> Speaking of beer. 10:00:08 <peter1138> Hmm, actually it's a bit early.l 10:00:19 <Pikka> planetmaker, if V's solution is satisfactory 10:01:00 <Pikka> ie only licencing the sprites... 10:01:41 <Pikka> then I'd be happy to donate the finished base set and its sprites to the OpenTTD team to release under the GPL 10:02:14 <Pikka> in the same way as I gave the av8 sprites to WAS. I'm just not sure it's satisfactory to *me*, which is why I won't release it as GPL myself. 10:12:16 <Alberth> huh? 10:13:08 <Pikka> exactly :) 10:13:32 <Alberth> it doesn't make any sense to me 10:15:20 <Pikka> I don't think a licence which requires sources is a sensible one for artwork, but if planetmaker/OpenTTD wants to take the pineapple base set and publish it under the GPL (and to consider the sprites alone as source) he's welcome to. 10:15:25 <planetmaker> in my understanding only the textures are not OSS with V's project 10:18:18 <Alberth> Pikka: that's how I understood your gesture, which is great in itself. I am however very much puzzled why you cannot do that 10:18:40 <Alberth> but if you don't want to answer that, it's fine 10:20:09 <Pikka> because if someone wants "the source", I don't want to be responsible for providing it... call it laziness, perhaps. ;) 10:20:17 <Pikka> bbs, dinnertime :) 10:26:04 <michi_cc> GPL defined the source as "the preferred form of the work for making modifications". For rendered 3D sprites, this does imply somewhat that the models are the source, not the rendered image. After all, if you want to add a window to a train model, you'd usually modify the model and re-render, instead of manually editing all the different rendered views and zooms. 10:28:57 <V453000> I find opensourcing models a huge mess, but with the sprites+code like we always did, it is fine 10:29:46 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 10:39:39 *** roidal_ [~roland@193-154-140-191.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 10:42:25 <michi_cc> From a technical perspective CC-BY-SA is likely to be a lot easier to apply than the GPL, but there are legal differences of course. The FSF itself even considers combining GPL with non-free licenses okay under certain conditions, so a a Debian approved license should be no problem at all (http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.en.html#non-functional-data). 10:44:36 *** jottyfan [~jottyfan@p54B7E20E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:44:39 *** roidal [~roland@193-154-136-41.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:49:21 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d011c94.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 10:53:33 <V453000> yeah I use CC-BY-SA for my projects 10:54:03 <V453000> the problem that 99% people will have is that 3D models is a thing they can work with in other projects, at work, sell them, do things with them 10:54:30 <V453000> putting them somewhere in a free environment does not feel good with those. 10:55:03 <V453000> I am all fine with CC sprites, code, and even my postproduction pipeline, adding technical documentation and explanation to show people how to do something similar 10:55:34 <V453000> I might even share the rendering files which just put things together and render them 10:55:44 <V453000> but I feel very unsure about sharing the actual 3D models 10:56:55 <V453000> of course when textures are not open-source friendly, that is another thing 10:57:21 <planetmaker> well, yes. But that's two things. So... you feel bad about sharing models because others are a bitch with that, too? 10:57:42 <V453000> no 10:57:58 <V453000> I am just saying that I think that my stand point is not too different to other 3D artists 10:59:09 <planetmaker> sorry, then I don't understand :) So you do as long as separating texture and models is easy? 10:59:35 <planetmaker> (just trying to understand, not judging) 11:00:20 <V453000> textures and models are separate already, cant split those two things really any further :P it always will be 2 different files. Anyway, my point is that a 3D model (textured or not), is something that their authors might use in the future in commercial projects 11:00:30 <V453000> and/or sell them on 3D model markets 11:00:43 <planetmaker> yes, of course. But that is true with *everything* 11:00:55 <planetmaker> it's also true with the soruce code we write. Or with sprites 11:01:13 <V453000> yeah but nobody will buy your sprites, while many people might buy a model of a truck/house/factory/... 11:02:51 <V453000> like, from my point of view - I am learning 3D graphics, and the newGRFs are a side-effect of that. I am glad to share those outputs, while creating my own library of models at the same time 11:03:06 <michi_cc> V453000: The whole point of open source is to allow other people to work and do things with it in other projects, provided they comply with the attached terms. 11:03:23 <V453000> sure 11:03:35 <V453000> ie someone can use my sprites and code them to do something functionally interesting 11:03:51 <planetmaker> also it doesn't mean you as author loose any rights to use them 11:04:20 <V453000> no but it makes no sense to sell such things at that point 11:04:41 <planetmaker> those people you sell to first have to know :) 11:04:46 <planetmaker> thus you can still sell it 11:05:54 <peter1138> sure it does, you can sell it with a different license (assuming sole authorship) 11:06:06 <V453000> well yeah 11:06:34 <planetmaker> and that actually usually works very well. People who buy stuff don't want GPL stuff. And vice versa :) 11:06:37 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:06:49 <V453000> it is just, I see a solution from all ends, like that. But it is all the unconveniences from all ends that make me not want to do it. 11:07:16 <michi_cc> It does. There are e.g. a lot of photos that are available either under a more restrictive free license or classically commercial for those companies that can't or won't comply with the license terms. 11:07:32 <V453000> filesize to upload would just get through the roof, my local folder for graphics has close to 200GB, the textures and renders are just about 10 GB out of that. 11:07:56 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:08:08 <V453000> yeah guys, idk if it is that you live in a more civilized part of the world, but in here licenses arent really care about much 11:08:17 <V453000> I guess my feeling of insecurity comes from that a lot 11:09:16 <michi_cc> And if you are worried about piracy, how is it any different to person 1 buying it and then making a torrent out of it? The availability or non-availability of an open source license doesn't change that one bit. 11:10:15 <V453000> nah I dont think it is that, I think I am just a jerk about letting people reuse these things I did to this extent 11:11:12 <Pikka> I think, from my point of view, it's slightly different if I were creating an open-source project which actually used the models 11:11:22 <V453000> + top class argument that you need 00 software to even open the files correctly :P 11:12:34 <Pikka> but publically giving away models (apart from the templates and examples which are intended to be given away) in the name of sourcing tiny sprites seems a little over the top. :) 11:13:37 <planetmaker> Pikka, but it's catch 22. Without models we can never change :) 11:14:39 <Pikka> you can change the sprites easily enough. not that the sprites are likely to require changing, only potentially adding to. 11:14:52 <planetmaker> no, I mean change OpenTTD to use models directly :) 11:15:17 <peter1138> Ooh, carrots 11:15:20 <V453000> it could be boxes to start with, I think you would be surprised how quickly would people fill it up :) 11:15:34 <Pikka> indeed :) 11:15:40 <planetmaker> V453000, 5 years 11:15:46 <V453000> fair enough 11:16:09 <Alberth> zbase quality 11:16:20 <planetmaker> yup 11:16:41 <V453000> since when does quality come into terms in opensource 11:16:43 <V453000> anything counts 11:17:14 <V453000> and with separate models it is easy to just replace things 11:17:31 <V453000> having to sprite things means they need to fit more in rendering settings etc 11:17:50 <Alberth> so far, 0 people have fixed anything in zbase 11:17:55 <planetmaker> with models available it's easy to make better models and sprites. So that argument cuts already now 11:18:05 <Alberth> including stupid stuff like offsets 11:18:18 <planetmaker> and that ^ 11:18:27 <V453000> okay :) 11:18:58 <V453000> so what are you saying, that with a good-quality source someone would do anything to fix it? 11:19:04 <Alberth> so technically, it's easy to change, it just never happens :p 11:19:15 <V453000> so far it feels like zbase doesnt actually need to be open source either then 11:19:19 <Pikka> <Alberth> so far, 0 people have fixed anything in zbase 11:19:19 <Pikka> <planetmaker> with models available it's easy to make better models and sprites <- these seem to be contradictory statements 11:19:24 <Pikka> indeed 11:19:48 <V453000> everybody is digging in their own sandbox anyway 11:20:06 <V453000> I do something, Pikka does something a bit different, chinese dudes do something a bit different 11:20:10 <planetmaker> there's one guy who shared his sandbox: zeph. No other one 11:20:19 <V453000> sure, and who used his sandbox? 11:21:14 <Pikka> Zeph also went out of his way to have a well-ordered sandbox 11:22:07 <Pikka> I haven't, and would rather not have to dump 20gb of miscellaneous doodlings on anyone who asks for it. 11:22:48 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 11:23:29 <Pikka> and I didn't see what V said above along the same lines until just now :P 11:23:44 <V453000> :P 11:23:45 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 11:26:17 <planetmaker> 3D models are not easily exchanged between different programmes. And knowledge with those programmes is much rarer than pixel pushing. Thus the likelyhood that someone with the skills in those textures comes along is smaller than with sprites. But it doesn't make it less valuable to have them 11:26:47 <V453000> actually most program accept .obj just fine 11:26:50 <planetmaker> on the contrary. The whole work will decay, if the 3d artist is gone and along with him all his models - except if he put them under an open license 11:27:06 <planetmaker> thus any project is a dead birth if the models are not freely available 11:28:45 <V453000> well then 11:29:26 <planetmaker> probably pikka is the contributor in this channel with the longest record of contributions 11:29:35 <planetmaker> and that's extremely rare 11:31:05 <V453000> how is that related? :d 11:32:09 <planetmaker> thus for any continuity in the project OpenTTD as a whole, in order to evolve, it's essential that the stuff it relies on is open source. And that includes the models for the game content if you are interested in this game to stay around and keep up with technical development 11:32:27 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:34 <planetmaker> otherwise it has to be re-invented over and over and the game is bound to die - for the reason that it can't continue development on the graphical front 11:33:01 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 11:33:42 <planetmaker> if you don't like the results 32bpp models used for graphics in OpenTTD - then why bother with it at all? If you do: why not make sure they stay and can evolve? 11:35:14 <planetmaker> that's basically what I wonder always, looking at the global perspective of this game :) 11:37:14 <V453000> I guess because we are not thinking of leaving anytime soon :) 11:39:41 <V453000> I know, we can get ran over by a bus 11:40:20 <V453000> but especially seeing how poor quality comes out of "the community", I guess we just do not want our efforts to be "improved" to that picture "the community" would love to make it to be 11:40:26 <frosch123> it's like becoming an organ donator :p 11:41:07 <V453000> I am not sure if I want to hear that explanation frosch123 XD 11:41:11 <frosch123> why donate your lungs to a fucking smoker? 11:41:30 <V453000> continue? :D 11:41:38 <frosch123> oh wait, not only smokers need new lungs? 11:43:43 <V453000> call me dumb but idk what do you mean by that 11:43:53 <frosch123> V453000: people have problems dealing with their after-life, like setting up being an organ donator, or making a statement about comatose treatment, or setting up a testament 11:44:02 <frosch123> i am amazed how you are able to extent that to graphics 11:44:16 <V453000> right 11:44:48 <V453000> well then I will write in my testament that all of my intellectual property goes to CC BY SA starting the day of my death? :P 11:45:11 <frosch123> see, there is a fs task 11:45:16 <frosch123> it's about cargodist 11:45:22 <frosch123> it's very easy to figure what is wrong 11:45:26 <frosch123> just i do not know what is right 11:45:32 <frosch123> i tried to ask fonsinchen 11:45:42 <frosch123> but fonsinchen has not been around since christmast 11:45:53 <frosch123> so, i cannot even get a simple yes/no answer 11:46:23 <frosch123> same goes with graphics 11:46:33 <frosch123> you want to make a grf compatible with grfv9 and ottd 2.0 11:46:36 <V453000> well losing a knowledgeable person is something different from losing some data 11:46:47 <frosch123> but if you have to spent 2 months hunting down the author 11:47:02 <frosch123> who became a millionaire and moved to the caribbiean 11:47:10 <frosch123> it's just not worth it 11:47:15 <peter1138> lucky fonsinchen 11:47:26 <V453000> yeah son of a bitch! 11:47:29 <V453000> :> 11:48:04 <frosch123> in the case of the baseset it is even more important 11:48:15 <frosch123> you have to update the baseset with every new version of ottd 11:48:21 <frosch123> becuse someone adds a silly gui sprite 11:48:33 <frosch123> last time i did that for zbase, even though i do not even like zbase 11:48:40 <V453000> that I understand 11:48:46 <Pikka> and you need sources for every model and texture to add a silly gui sprite? ;) 11:48:51 <frosch123> stuff like nightgfx otoh, is dead by now 11:49:09 <frosch123> Pikka: no, i just need a fucking statement that says something 11:49:22 <frosch123> i do not need a statement, "ask me, if you can find me" 11:49:22 <planetmaker> Pikka, the next necessary addition could not be a gui sprite, but for instance improved tunnel portals 11:49:44 <Pikka> my railway tracks are hand-drawn 11:49:45 <frosch123> it does not need to be open source, it just needs to state what is allowed, and what not 11:49:50 <Pikka> my tunnel portals might very well be also :) 11:49:53 <frosch123> bsd license or cc-by or whatever, all is fine 11:49:58 <planetmaker> and then what, Pikka ?the tunnels, too? Or a new station type? 11:50:16 <planetmaker> and 'might be' is just you avoiding an answer. 11:50:34 <Pikka> I haven't done them yet, so I don't know 11:50:35 <planetmaker> a base set can be in need of any type of sprite added 11:50:47 <planetmaker> hourse, vehicle, terrain, gui, whatever 11:51:29 <peter1138> gosh, frosch123 swore 11:51:35 <V453000> ^ 11:51:38 <V453000> shit is getting real 11:51:46 <Pikka> yep 11:51:56 <peter1138> can't do, real is banned 11:52:26 <Pikka> anyway, frosch123, I've made that statement... "I'd be happy to donate the finished base set and its sprites to the OpenTTD team to release under the GPL". 11:52:36 <peter1138> basically, unless it is actually open source, don't bother treating it as potentially open source in the future 11:52:56 <frosch123> there was no such statement, yesterday, was there? 11:52:56 <Pikka> the only question is whether that's acceptable, and it seems to planetmaker it isn't :) 11:53:29 <Pikka> no, but there was earlier in this conversation. yesterday I wasn't contemplating the possibility of my base set becoming part of openttd, so it hadn't crossed my mind 11:53:54 <frosch123> none of the basesets is part of ottd, i did not read the conversation, no idea :) 11:54:10 <planetmaker> I'm no lawyer, no do I know how debian would treat it. And I know that it's grey area to open-source only sprites and not models 11:54:43 <planetmaker> all I wanted to convey (and how it started): no open source for a base set means no personal support from me 11:54:50 <frosch123> i only read the kickstarter page, and i do not remember anythnig about how it will be licenced 11:55:23 <frosch123> thus i assume it is the default license "no support, if author leaves" 11:55:42 <frosch123> which is no problem for most grfs, but troublesome for a baseset 11:56:22 <planetmaker> and frosch has the much better parabole story than I did :) 11:58:08 <V453000> I need to ask andythenorth if openttd is dying yet 11:58:30 <Pikka> I see now how that could be an issue. A written offer to the OpenTTD team to release under [any licence] seems like it should solve it, though? 11:59:30 <planetmaker> please make the offer to anyone who wants 11:59:57 <planetmaker> thus license it properly in the first place 12:00:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i'm fairly convinced that GPL is not the license for you. CC-BY(-SA) is probably more suited to what you want to offer 12:01:58 <V453000> ever since people started being uneasy at me about providing full source, I will never use GPL ever again 12:02:15 <Pikka> probably cc-0 for the base set, Eddi. 12:02:27 <Pikka> or something along those lines 12:02:46 <frosch123> V453000: even factorio now banned mods without licence :) 12:02:52 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't have to go that far, but if you want to, go ahead. 12:02:59 <V453000> :) 12:03:35 <planetmaker> V453000, err, what? 12:04:17 <V453000> idk who pm but I remember some cute conversation about my projects not including 3D models and GPL requiring that 12:04:22 <V453000> in a nutshell 12:04:48 <peter1138> open source usually means ALL the source, yes. 12:04:57 <peter1138> not ... just a bit 12:05:07 <V453000> not a slave thanks 12:05:10 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: yes, GPL means include all the models and all the textures. there is no way around that 12:05:33 <peter1138> don't want to do that, don't pretend to be open source 12:05:37 <Eddi|zuHause> if you don't want to do that, don't use GPL 12:05:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it's that simple 12:06:10 <peter1138> i didn't write any of openttd expecting to be able to keep a bit of it for myself 12:06:19 <V453000> well, if I spend my free time with a hobby, I share as much as I feel comfortable with sharing, and if any idiot comes up and starts being agressive about not sharing enough, it cant end up well 12:06:49 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody is aggressive about not sharing enough 12:06:58 <V453000> not today :) 12:07:15 <Eddi|zuHause> just when you don't want to share everything, don't use GPL 12:07:35 <peter1138> ^ that 12:07:39 <V453000> sure, that is what I do now 12:07:42 <peter1138> which is what he decided on 12:07:56 <Eddi|zuHause> that is fine, really 12:08:03 <Pikka> So does cc-0 for the base set sound like a reasonable compromise to everyone, or anyone? :) 12:08:10 <Eddi|zuHause> now get Pikka to the point where he decides something 12:08:52 <Eddi|zuHause> any decision is better than hanging in this limbo 12:09:00 <Pikka> or cc-by-sa, I suppose. 12:09:30 <Pikka> more for the benefit of potential users outside OpenTTD. 12:09:58 <planetmaker> that makes no sense :) 12:10:38 <Pikka> I mean, I'm not bothered by what people do with my OpenTTD graphics within OpenTTD, but I guess it would be nice to know if someone's using them outside. Not that it's likely. 12:11:06 <planetmaker> how does CC-BY-SA help there more than CC-0? 12:11:58 <Pikka> I don't know. I've no means of enforcing a licence and no-one obeys CC licences properly anyway. 12:12:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i would feel uncomfortable providing a project as big as this with CC-0. the least i'd want is my name on it 12:12:31 <Pikka> but anyway, would a CC licence resolve the issues you have with the base set, planetmaker? 12:12:43 <planetmaker> yes 12:13:16 <Pikka> huzzah :) 12:13:38 <Eddi|zuHause> just don't put -NC or -ND on it 12:13:47 <Pikka> obviously :) 12:14:52 <Eddi|zuHause> there may be a bit of trouble putting CC-BY-SA graphics into a GPL newgrf, but maybe just stating different licenses for graphics and code will resolve that 12:16:24 <Pikka> we'll burn that bridge when we come to it. 12:24:19 <Pikka> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1512547915/pineapple-graphics-for-openttd/posts/1298435 there we go 12:25:33 <Pikka> goodnight all :) 12:25:35 *** Pikka [~Octomom@124-170-112-26.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:31:52 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-19-108.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 12:34:31 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:34 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-150-76.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:42:54 *** jottyfan [~jottyfan@p54B7E20E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:43:06 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 13:08:48 *** shirish [~quassel@59.97.96.122] has joined #openttd 13:10:12 *** Garfield222 [~Garfield2@46.114.1.47] has joined #openttd 13:12:25 <Garfield222> Hi, I have difficulty to find this station tiles http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2ns6n9y&s=8 . It is not in Japan nor in Dutch train sets. Could someone recognise it ? 13:16:28 <planetmaker> Garfield222, dunno. But consider to ask in this thread: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=21706 13:17:31 <Garfield222> ok 13:23:06 *** Garfield222 [~Garfield2@46.114.1.47] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it] 13:50:45 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18E8B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:53:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 13:55:20 <andythenorth> o/ 14:12:08 <andythenorth> peter1138: carrots? o_O 14:13:18 <andythenorth> V453000: itâs already dead 14:13:29 <V453000> gg 14:15:31 <andythenorth> for the record 14:15:44 <andythenorth> Squid Ate FISH does *not* include the 3D sources 14:15:57 <andythenorth> and anyone who thinks that violates GPL, we can work it out in court 14:16:00 <andythenorth> with lawyers and stuff 14:16:14 <V453000> (: 14:17:01 <andythenorth> and thereâs no point playing armchair lawyer about it 14:17:08 <andythenorth> because thereâs no obvious case law 14:17:33 <andythenorth> and itâs known that GPL is not optimal for assets like artwork and documentation 14:17:50 <frosch123> V453000: who did actually request 3d models? 14:18:05 <V453000> I would love to remember but I dont frosch123 , sorry 14:19:08 <frosch123> don't read forums then :p 14:19:21 <V453000> what is on forums? :D 14:19:38 <frosch123> no, just generally :) 14:19:51 <V453000> why? :D 14:20:17 <frosch123> maybe irc is worse? :p 14:21:31 <V453000> hardly :) 14:24:22 <andythenorth> ugh 14:24:25 * andythenorth google some 14:24:34 <andythenorth> could definitely waste a day playing armchair lawyer 14:24:40 * andythenorth avoids that 14:24:48 <andythenorth> back to trams 14:25:19 <frosch123> have you tried being a backseat lawyer? 14:25:42 <andythenorth> actually yes 14:25:48 <andythenorth> my real lawyers hate it 14:25:59 <andythenorth> and it costs me extra for wasting their time 14:26:25 <frosch123> btw. next time you have trouble with vehicle stats 14:27:06 <frosch123> you can start a kickstarter and offer giving stats to vehicles a pledge 14:27:20 <andythenorth> can we start a kickstarter for every problem? 14:27:24 <andythenorth> ProblemStarter 14:27:35 <frosch123> is there a minimum goal? 14:27:41 <frosch123> 1⬠? 14:27:59 <frosch123> can you ask for good wishes instead of money? 14:28:51 <andythenorth> eh, I have a challenge-solving app :P 14:28:53 <andythenorth> we sell that 14:29:15 <andythenorth> also 14:29:24 <andythenorth> electric pigs, or steam? 14:33:21 <frosch123> hmm, kickstarter only works with credit card? 14:33:30 <frosch123> i do not have one :o 14:33:31 <andythenorth> no paypal 14:33:47 <frosch123> i live in continental europe, i do not use credit cards 14:33:49 <andythenorth> is it Germany where no-one has credit cards? 14:33:51 <andythenorth> thereâs some country 14:33:54 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:34:16 <frosch123> i am used to send money with < 1% fees 14:34:24 <frosch123> all accross the continent 14:34:33 <andythenorth> probably all kinds of problems with paypal and such 14:34:46 <andythenorth> they have a habit of keeping funds for up to a year 14:35:26 <andythenorth> wouldnât work for kickstarter :) 14:36:36 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Depends on what you consider a credit card. If you think of an US-style revolving credit card, you'll be hard pressed to find a German with one. Credit card branded debit cards are used in Germany, but definitely not to the extend of many other countries. 14:37:24 <andythenorth> :) 14:37:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6C3CF.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:38:57 * andythenorth wonders if steam engines would frighten the livestock 14:39:58 <frosch123> do tunnels frighten livestock? 14:40:03 <andythenorth> maybe 14:40:07 <andythenorth> dunno, havenât got any livestock :) 14:40:10 <andythenorth> only children 14:40:16 <andythenorth> tunnels frighten children 14:42:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B9DA.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:42:50 <andythenorth> electric feldbahn is realisms :D http://www.bahnbilder.de/1200/mit-einem-kalksteinzug-rollt-lok-795680.jpg 14:46:26 <frosch123> i only drove a battery powered mining railway engine 14:46:37 <frosch123> the rest was diesel 14:47:54 <andythenorth> V453000: donât really like steampunk, but thereâs some neat stuff here if you dig around http://industriamechanika.com/blog/tag/remora/ 14:48:49 <V453000> meh 14:50:23 <andythenorth> clearly you liked it :P 15:00:18 *** sla_ro|master2 [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 15:02:43 * andythenorth roams in BATS 15:06:24 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:33:37 * andythenorth does a steam tram 15:33:54 <andythenorth> fascinating news 15:34:08 <Wolf01> yay, finally made the cell phone in terraria \o/ 16:36:37 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-76-157.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 16:37:50 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 16:55:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:00:00 *** supermop [~supermop@udp077717uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #openttd 17:04:27 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:04:30 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 17:05:51 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:05:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:11:09 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:21:36 *** shirish_ [~quassel@59.94.121.188] has joined #openttd 17:28:23 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:53:52 *** supermop [~supermop@udp077717uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:21 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:00:09 <andythenorth> is there any reason 18:00:25 <andythenorth> why RVs couldnât just drive through vehicles in front, rather than needing to overtake? 18:03:20 <Wolf01> like TTD? 18:07:34 <andythenorth> canât remember :) 18:08:03 <Wolf01> in TTD vehicles piled up in front of the drive-in roas stops 18:08:25 <Wolf01> infinite vehicles in one tile :D 18:09:08 <Wolf01> then queuing (with quantum effects) happened 18:09:58 <Alberth> andythenorth: those RVs are called 'ships' 18:10:27 <andythenorth> thatâs where I got the idea :P 18:10:40 <andythenorth> that and Eddiâs comment that overtaking is a Hard Problem 18:12:34 <Sylf> so, we can build canal graphics that look like roads, and ships that look like RVs? 18:12:53 <Sylf> the only issue is the docks looking like RV stations :P 18:12:57 <Wolf01> yeah why not 18:13:43 <Sylf> and how to force buildings to build around canals 18:15:27 <Wolf01> just go to venice and give a look 18:18:55 <Sylf> or many other cities around the world as the sea level rise :P 18:39:03 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-76-157.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 18:42:56 <V453000> HOLY SHIT SYLF WHAT AN IDEA 18:43:23 <Sylf> lol shit 18:43:28 <Sylf> I gave V an idea 18:43:34 <Sylf> bombshell idea 18:43:58 <V453000> world will never be the same now 18:44:21 *** gelignite_ [~gelignite@mue-88-130-76-157.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 18:44:48 *** frosch [~frosch@x4d011c94.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 18:45:02 <V453000> nah I am just downscaling everything in the game at the moment :P 18:45:05 <V453000> it works SO great 18:45:10 <V453000> smaller trees = no need to X all the time 18:45:20 <V453000> smaller buildings = nicer towns, space around buildings 18:45:43 <V453000> smaller vehicles = more reasonable scale 18:45:55 <V453000> the plan of DOOM was to make shit ultra huge 18:46:04 *** Stimrol_ [~Stimrol@46-239-218-77.tal.is] has joined #openttd 18:46:05 <V453000> but the "right" solution currently seems to be to make everything smaller 18:46:51 <V453000> with the x4 zoom available from 3D renders, you can still make it bigger 18:47:02 <V453000> but x1 remains best for buildings 18:47:09 <V453000> -s 18:47:17 <frosch> longer vehicles by making everything else smaller? :p 18:47:42 <V453000> well vehicles do keep length only, not width or height 18:47:58 <frosch> so they fit under bridges 18:48:04 <V453000> that too 18:48:10 <frosch> and you can have big cargo piles between platforms 18:48:21 <V453000> but the biggest wtf is the thing Pikka defines as "chibby" - everything is too short, fat and weird ass 18:49:10 <V453000> honestly, as a 3D person the initial idea is "render it as large as you fucking can, you spent a lot of time doing the models, might as well make the most out of it for the game" 18:49:17 <V453000> but ultimately, the game needs downscaling 18:49:23 <V453000> with zoom levels available, it is no issue 18:49:31 <V453000> of course as long as x1 looks good 18:51:06 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d011c94.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:51:36 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-218-77.tal.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:51:41 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-76-157.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:55:06 *** jottyfan [~jottyfan@p54B7E20E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:00:10 * andythenorth chibis V453000 19:01:49 <andythenorth> Road Hog now 72 vehicles 19:01:57 <andythenorth> do I get the high score? 19:06:53 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> why RVs couldnât just drive through vehicles in front, rather than needing to overtake? <-- it would make RVs really boring, i think 19:07:18 <andythenorth> compared to having all vehicles in a generation have same speed? 19:07:32 <andythenorth> which is where Road Hog will end up, for articulated vehicles at least 19:07:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i see no problem with that 19:07:56 <andythenorth> there is no purpose to having some articulated RVs be higher speed than others 19:08:05 <andythenorth> maybe thatâs a non-problem 19:08:40 <Eddi|zuHause> but part of the "interestingness" of RVs comes from cities becoming too crowded to handle the traffic 19:09:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that just goes away and you can spam as many RVs as you want, and they just pile up at the station as zero-space vehicles 19:09:41 <Eddi|zuHause> no traffic jams to fiddle around with (and get annoyed by the game not providing tools for load balancing) 19:14:04 <andythenorth> ha 19:14:06 <andythenorth> fair point 19:32:34 *** sla_ro|master2 [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 19:45:01 *** roidal_ [~roland@193-154-140-191.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.2] 19:49:47 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:51:40 * Supercheese debates donating to Pineapple graphics 19:54:07 * andythenorth didnât debate it 19:57:41 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what i'm trying to say is: make road vehicles more like trains wrt options and fiddling, and not dumb them down to the level of ships 19:59:05 <andythenorth> I agree, but do you have any specific ideas? o-O 19:59:06 <andythenorth> o_O 20:00:38 <frosch> choose the specs so that speed does not matter as much? 20:01:14 <frosch> just make them all slow :) 20:01:37 <frosch> make all vehicles of the same generation the same speed 20:02:46 <andythenorth> pretty much 20:02:54 <andythenorth> except the express trucks, which can overtake 20:03:49 <andythenorth> FWIW (not much probably), designing the tram part of Road Hog is a shitload easier than the proper RVs 20:04:06 <andythenorth> especially now I abandoned the idea that trams progress to RVs 20:04:23 <andythenorth> no need to consider overtaking or roadstop type 20:06:06 <andythenorth> all the possible choices for proper RVs are flawed, so the design is now based on âwhat sprites exist alreadyâ :P 20:12:49 <andythenorth> bye 20:12:50 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:18:52 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:39:56 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.111.44] has joined #openttd 20:41:43 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 20:42:04 *** shirish__ [~quassel@117.195.112.240] has joined #openttd 20:44:49 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45:07 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:45:36 *** frosch [~frosch@x4d011c94.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 20:46:29 *** shirish_ [~quassel@59.94.121.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:47:05 *** Progman_ [~progman@p57A194C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:48:54 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:52:18 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18E8B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:52:31 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 21:01:54 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.102.233] has joined #openttd 21:03:05 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:04:43 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:04:48 <Terkhen> good night 21:08:34 *** shirish__ [~quassel@117.195.112.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:19:19 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 21:19:39 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:34:25 *** gelignite_ [~gelignite@mue-88-130-76-157.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 21:36:01 <Wolf01> 'night 21:36:10 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:07:15 *** Pikka [~Octomom@124-170-112-26.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:18:41 *** Progman [~progman@p57A194C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:00 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.121.70] has joined #openttd 22:38:59 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:43:09 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@cybertinus.customer.cloud.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:11 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@cybertinus.customer.cloud.nl] has joined #openttd 23:04:09 <Sylf> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=73349 23:04:20 <Sylf> binaries mirror site seems to be having a problem 23:04:52 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.121.70] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:04:57 <Sylf> or should I say, mirror gateway? 23:06:14 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.105.120] has joined #openttd 23:07:04 <Rejf> shirish: this one is working http://us.binaries.openttd.org/binaries/releases/1.5.1/index.html 23:07:14 <Rejf> i mean, Sylf 23:08:16 *** Smedles [~quassel@58.160.136.199] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 210 seconds.] 23:09:51 *** Smedles [~quassel@58.160.136.199] has joined #openttd 23:14:15 <Sylf> yup, thanks, I pointed the OP to the mirror sites 23:26:08 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.119.243] has joined #openttd 23:28:59 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:31:04 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 23:31:26 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:31:35 *** jottyfan [~jottyfan@p54B7E20E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:45:46 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@a392.ip16.netikka.fi] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 23:52:22 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6C3CF.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]