Log for #openttd on 12th September 2015:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:13:29  *** jinks [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:39:02  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
01:01:17  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
01:02:07  *** jinks [] has joined #openttd
01:05:06  *** zeknurn [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:59:45  *** efess [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:37:20  *** Myhorta [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:55:44  *** Biolunar [] has joined #openttd
03:02:42  *** Biolunar_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:35:33  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has joined #openttd
04:35:46  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has quit []
04:40:14  *** liq3 [] has joined #openttd
04:40:20  *** Flygon_ [] has joined #openttd
04:40:54  *** Flygon__ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:44:27  *** Supercheese [] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes]
04:56:01  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
04:56:16  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
05:03:33  *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest1396
05:03:34  *** sim-al2 [] has joined #openttd
05:07:37  *** Guest1396 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:08:47  *** Supercheese [] has joined #openttd
05:09:46  *** Supercheese [] has quit []
05:13:30  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
05:16:20  *** Biolunar [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
05:25:52  *** Supercheese [] has joined #openttd
05:26:03  *** Supercheese [] has quit []
05:26:36  *** Supercheese [] has joined #openttd
06:10:51  *** zeknurn [] has joined #openttd
06:11:26  *** roidal [] has joined #openttd
06:12:16  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
06:18:34  <andythenorth> o/
06:20:41  *** Arveen [] has joined #openttd
06:21:09  * Supercheese has lost all of his free time to Factorio
06:21:39  <Supercheese> poor openttd.exe, all unclicked on
06:22:09  <Supercheese> or, well, .lnk but close enough
06:23:06  <Supercheese> but I hear tales of new FIRS
06:23:23  <andythenorth> is alphas
06:23:35  <andythenorth> I tried to form a factorio addiction
06:23:40  <andythenorth> but I just couldn’t manage it
06:23:41  <Supercheese> Oh sweet, booze-fired power plants
06:23:46  <andythenorth> winning
06:23:48  <Supercheese> ethanol is pretty good for burning
06:23:53  <Supercheese> can run your car off of it
06:24:40  <Supercheese> should have been feature, not bug
06:25:06  <Supercheese> Gasoline Station; Accepts: Alcohol, Gasoline  :P
06:31:18  <andythenorth> ach
06:31:29  <andythenorth> this power plant fix means providing all the layouts ‘properly'
06:31:30  <andythenorth> :P
06:49:04  *** itsatacoshop247 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:59:23  *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
06:59:26  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
06:59:40  *** Pikka [] has joined #openttd
06:59:52  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:06:27  <andythenorth> moin
07:08:37  *** sim-al2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:28:01  <andythenorth> hmm
07:28:07  <andythenorth> maybe I should play a NARS 2 game
07:28:11  <andythenorth> been a while
07:30:02  <andythenorth> Pikka: is there a new NARS with no BAD FEATURES? o_O
07:50:54  <Pikka> hello
07:50:59  <Pikka> yes there is, 2.5
07:51:24  *** sla_ro|master [] has joined #openttd
07:52:33  * andythenorth tries that one
07:52:46  <andythenorth> I am trying a game with fewer of my grfs in it :P
07:52:51  <Pikka> new as in about 10 months old
07:52:52  <andythenorth> so I don’t have to fix them
07:52:54  <Pikka> how rare
07:53:00  <andythenorth> yes
07:57:09  <andythenorth> Pikka bob o_O
07:57:59  <Pikka> how big is it? internet in this place is rubbish
07:58:07  <andythenorth> giants
07:58:11  <andythenorth> also it has to get to Australia
07:58:27  <andythenorth> 14MB
07:58:29  <Pikka> australia isn't a problem, just Stafford
07:58:42  <Pikka> it's up to 2.
07:58:53  <Pikka> 2.5
07:58:56  <Eddi|zuHause> ... i just found the screwdriver
08:02:02  <andythenorth> :)
08:09:11  <Pikka> I see, andythenorth :)
08:10:08  <Alberth> 2.51  :p
08:10:31  <andythenorth> such animations :P
08:10:42  <andythenorth> remind what the point of cdist is?
08:10:57  <Alberth> doing automagic transfer orders?
08:11:18  <Alberth> @calc 200.0 / 14
08:11:18  <DorpsGek> Alberth: 14.2857142857
08:11:37  <Alberth> hmm, can't have all 64 industries animated in 200MB :p
08:13:12  <andythenorth> there is some reason I turned cdist off for freight
08:13:15  <Alberth> looks like an opportunity to smash the record set by V :)
08:13:36  <Alberth> supplies to long distances doesn't really work?
08:13:46  <andythenorth> hmm
08:13:49  <andythenorth> oh I remember
08:13:49  <Alberth> unless you set it to ignore distances
08:14:09  <andythenorth> it’s because you have to build non-bridged networks anyway
08:14:16  <andythenorth> so cdist is doing literally nothing useful
08:14:43  <Alberth> I missed that part of the course, apparently
08:14:53  <andythenorth> separate pickup station is required for every cargo destination
08:15:13  <Alberth> why?
08:15:32  <andythenorth> trying to remember
08:15:49  <Alberth> cdist cannot move cargo after allocating?
08:15:56  <andythenorth> ah it’s because cdist ‘wants’ to assign cargo to routes differently to where I want it to go
08:16:08  <andythenorth> but cdist doesn’t assign cargo to routes, only next hop
08:16:09  <andythenorth> so eh
08:16:14  <andythenorth> it doesn’t work
08:16:45  <andythenorth> anyway, the result of using cdist for freight is very large waiting amounts at stations, that never clear
08:16:46  <Alberth> right, you don't want to do what cdist says :p
08:17:06  <andythenorth> and also some routes are starved of cargo completely
08:17:30  <Alberth> distance ?
08:17:49  <Alberth> but in general, yeah, you do have to follow what cdist decides
08:18:16  <andythenorth> yeah
08:18:19  <andythenorth> it doesn’t work
08:18:33  <andythenorth> oh, but I think my workaround is flawed, industries only distribute to 2 highest rated pickup stations?
08:18:39  <Alberth> I have no trouble with it, but ymmv
08:19:24  <Alberth> could be
08:21:22  * andythenorth has to remember to use transfer orders again :)
08:21:54  <andythenorth> is it known how cdist chooses to assign cargo to next hop?
08:22:28  <Eddi|zuHause> what else would it do?
08:23:06  <andythenorth> what’s the criteria though?
08:23:37  <andythenorth> if I can understand the rules, I might be able to beat it
08:23:44  <andythenorth> currently it beats me every game I try it in
08:24:07  <andythenorth> I can’t figure out any heuristic for defeating cdist though
08:24:44  <Supercheese> distribution mode: manual
08:24:52  <andythenorth> that’s just cheat mode
08:24:55  <Supercheese> works for me eh
08:25:00  <andythenorth> dificulty: sandbox
08:25:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand your problem with it
08:25:42  <andythenorth> I don’t understand how to beat it
08:26:38  <Eddi|zuHause> tbh, freight was always more of a side dish in my networks, trying to handle all the passengers trumps everything and takes all the attention
08:26:41  <Supercheese> Sandbox mode is the best mode
08:26:47  <Supercheese> well, for singleplayer
08:26:57  <Supercheese> script goals are nice for MP
08:27:07  <Eddi|zuHause> also, last time i used CDIST was probably 5 years ago
08:27:08  <andythenorth> you can’t play script goals with cdist
08:27:13  <andythenorth> they’re opposed
08:27:20  <Supercheese> sure, I'm not considering cdist
08:27:46  <Supercheese> I have it off all the time
08:28:06  <Supercheese> dest looked much more interesting to me than dist, really
08:28:20  <Supercheese> but I never did get around to trying YACD or whatnot
08:28:39  <andythenorth> what YACD does for gameplay can be done with GS more or less
08:28:46  <andythenorth> different implementation, similar effect on game
08:28:48  <Supercheese> yeah, it does seem that way
08:28:59  <andythenorth> YACD was very compelling though
08:29:14  <Supercheese> someone™ should try YACD-as-GS
08:29:35  <Eddi|zuHause> that's unlikely to work
08:29:40  <andythenorth> wouldn’t work
08:29:46  <andythenorth> Busy Bee is as close as you’ll get
08:29:54  <andythenorth> Busy Bee with 100s of goals :P
08:30:11  <Supercheese> I suppose so, yeah
08:32:10  * andythenorth reads the wiki page on cdist
08:32:20  <andythenorth> I want to know how to win against it
08:32:53  <Supercheese> The only winning move is not to play
08:33:12  <andythenorth>
08:34:24  <andythenorth> hmm
08:34:30  <andythenorth> nothing there about how next hop is chosen
08:34:47  <andythenorth> “Cargodist ... chooses destinations for the passengers involved”
08:34:50  <andythenorth> is all
08:37:35  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's a flow problem. all the sources and destinations get weights on them, and inbetween there will be flows balanced
08:37:52  * andythenorth is reading src/linkgraph
08:38:07  <andythenorth> I am confused about whether cdist assigns destinations for a packet or not
08:38:12  <andythenorth> I thought not
08:38:46  <andythenorth> my assumption is that it ignore specific packets, looks only at the cargo type, and splits to next hop in some ratio between possible choices
08:39:06  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: imagine it like an electric network. each link is a resistor, and you have a bunch of + and -
08:39:17  <andythenorth> “ignores” = there is no storage of any destination in packets, is my assumption
08:40:16  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
08:40:18  <Eddi|zuHause> well, yes. the packet does not store this data, because it doesn't need it. the flow has been decided way earlier
08:40:25  <Wolf01> hi o/
08:40:48  <andythenorth> ok
08:40:52  <andythenorth> that makes complete sense
08:41:04  <andythenorth> so my problem resolves to ‘demand appears to be totally arbitrary when I’m playing'
08:41:28  <andythenorth> it obviously isn’t arbitrary, but the results aren’t pleasing, and there’s no way to influence it
08:41:35  <andythenorth> which is not a good game
08:42:40  <Eddi|zuHause> you could try to expose the demand weights to scripts
08:42:42  * Wolf01 is in wall.e building mode
08:43:07  <andythenorth> by ‘not pleasing’ I mean ‘cargo builds up in vast quantities at stations, no matter what I do
08:43:16  <andythenorth> and in OpenTTD, that is a sign that you are losing the game
08:43:46  <andythenorth> that problem simply does not occur if each pickup station handles only one destination per cargo
08:44:25  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the station window tells you which next hop is overloaded
08:44:40  <andythenorth> to which the solution is add more vehicles
08:44:47  <andythenorth> so more cargo is then assigned
08:44:54  <andythenorth> it’s a losing strategy
08:45:46  <andythenorth> * I’m not convinced that happens, it just looks like what happens
08:51:50  <andythenorth> hmm ChangeShare and so on are where the magic happens
08:51:57  <andythenorth> in station_cmd.cpp
08:53:15  <andythenorth> I wonder if there’s a feedback condition something like:
08:53:28  <andythenorth> - station has existing good service on route A-B
08:53:38  <andythenorth> - a vehicle is added for route A-C
08:54:06  <andythenorth> the share of flow assigned to A-C is relatively tiny
08:54:14  <andythenorth> - the vehicle takes a long time to load and deliver
08:54:27  <andythenorth> - the share is refreshed and continues to be calculated as tiny
08:56:32  <andythenorth> the unwanted behaviour I see is when adding a second or third route to a high output industry where the first route is well served, then the vehicles on the second or third route load very slowly
08:59:17  <andythenorth> wall of text :(
09:03:19  <peter1138> tl;dr
09:03:41  <andythenorth> cdist no worky
09:06:37  <peter1138> because it's not cdest
09:06:55  <andythenorth> bitchy
09:12:37  * andythenorth must to football and so on
09:12:39  <andythenorth> bbl
09:12:39  <Alberth> cdist is slow in adapting
09:12:48  <Alberth> bye
09:12:52  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
09:15:57  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
09:31:21  *** Wormnest [] has joined #openttd
09:33:02  *** Myhorta [] has joined #openttd
09:37:21  *** gelignite [] has joined #openttd
09:49:42  *** tokai|noir [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:50:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm so amazed at how train fever ever so slightly fails at being enjoyable. they introduce crossings, but in the least flexible way possible, which fits almost no situation
09:50:43  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
09:50:46  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
09:51:45  <Supercheese> I tried train fever once, couldn't get the hang of it
09:51:57  <Supercheese> guess I'm too used to TTD-style gameplay
09:52:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i find it somewhat cool, but the construction is ever so annoying
09:52:23  <Supercheese> like how I tried Locomotion and didn't like the construction method/interface
09:52:37  <Supercheese> similar issue eh
09:52:46  <Supercheese> Factorio on the other hand is great
09:53:01  <frosch123> another victim :p
09:53:10  <Supercheese> yeap
09:53:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i played the demo, didn't get addicted.
09:53:44  <Wolf01> lol, eddi, i used them a lot in front of the stations, i then discovered they added them just 4 days before i started to play the game XD
09:54:19  <Supercheese> I hear rumors that Factorio will be going NUTS
09:54:31  <frosch123> they are no rumors
09:54:35  <frosch123> they are confirmed news :)
09:54:36  <Supercheese> :D
09:55:10  <frosch123> next enemy class will be a slug
09:55:14  <blathijs> NUTS?
09:55:23  <Supercheese> oh snap
09:55:39  <Supercheese> same slugs as on the farm tiles perhaps
09:55:41  <frosch123> (that was a rumor though :p)
09:56:41  <frosch123> blathijs: there are absolutely no relations or overlaps between ottd community and factory employees
09:57:03  <frosch123> *factorio
09:57:50  <frosch123> just as there are absolutely no relation to opendune and freerct
09:58:07  <Supercheese> ;)
09:58:30  <blathijs> frosch123: Uh, but I just don't know what NUTS means :-)
09:58:37  <Supercheese>
09:58:59  <Supercheese> could have mentioned YETI but there's no pun to be had there
09:59:12  <frosch123> oh right, the new character model
09:59:22  <Eddi|zuHause> puns are overrated
09:59:34  <Eddi|zuHause> err, no they aren't, actually :p
10:00:39  <Supercheese> well, I'll probably translate for Factorio as well, at least it has far fewer strings, but there is some challenging vocabulary
10:01:13  <frosch123> don't confuse wires and cables :)
10:01:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still not quite sure what your target audience actually is :p
10:01:27  *** tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:01:37  <Supercheese> well, other people had translated Minecraft before I even got there
10:01:41  <Supercheese> so clearly I am not the only one
10:01:43  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i haven't figured that out for ottd either
10:02:30  <Supercheese> but it is mostly a "because I can" kind of thing, and to keep my language skills from getting rusty
10:02:48  <frosch123> always useful in case aliens visit :)
10:03:43  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: aliens that have been travelling for 1000 years after listening in?
10:03:44  <Supercheese> and, y'know, quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur
10:06:05  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: obviously all polytheism originates from aliens :p
10:06:55  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i did watch stargate
10:07:40  <Supercheese> also there was actually a Flyspray ticket for OTTD specifically requesting a Latin translation
10:08:14  <Supercheese>
10:08:38  <frosch123> ah, by eddi's best friend
10:08:47  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: there you have your audience :)
10:09:11  <Supercheese> I haven't ever heard from the fellow about it, though :/
10:09:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i have successfully suppressed that memory
10:15:30  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has joined #openttd
10:27:58  *** sla_ro|master [] has quit []
10:30:21  *** sla_ro|master [] has joined #openttd
10:35:34  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
10:55:05  <andythenorth> EGrass
10:55:09  <andythenorth> nvm
10:57:11  <Supercheese> I prefer bluegrass
11:23:05  *** zeknurn [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:23:41  <andythenorth> in station_cmd.cpp, how can IncreaseStats() call itself?
11:23:50  * andythenorth doesn’t understand recursive functions
11:24:03  <andythenorth> how can / how does /s
11:26:03  <frosch123> it doesn't call itself
11:26:11  <frosch123> it calls an overloaded function with the same name
11:26:22  <andythenorth> oic
11:27:20  * andythenorth wikis
11:27:27  <andythenorth> that is...special
11:28:39  * andythenorth tries to find the call to that
11:30:26  <andythenorth> is there a web view of openttd src with line numbers?
11:30:37  * andythenorth can’t find one in
11:30:51  <andythenorth> oh, ‘blob’ :P
11:31:07  <andythenorth> that means binary object in my world, i.e. downloadable file :P
11:31:38  *** Supercheese [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:32:13  *** Supercheese [] has joined #openttd
11:33:04  <andythenorth> how is total_duration calculated for non-timetabled vehicles?
11:38:29  <frosch123>
11:38:56  <frosch123> cdist monitors travel times anyway
11:39:04  <frosch123> the timetable gui also shows them
11:39:11  <frosch123> it only means that the times are updated all the time
11:39:50  <andythenorth> I am curious about;a=blob;f=src/linkgraph/refresh.cpp;h=02f27f40c1018b83de63b9dda3757ae2d3995ea5;hb=HEAD#l218
11:39:52  <andythenorth> the comment
11:40:08  <andythenorth> “Don't do that if the vehicle has been waiting for longer than the entire order list is supposed to take, though. If that is the case the total duration is probably far off and we'd greatly overestimate the capacity by increasing.”
11:40:10  <andythenorth> specifically
11:40:34  <andythenorth> the vehicle will wait for cargo
11:40:51  <andythenorth> but if cdist calculates capacity based on the waiting time
11:40:56  <andythenorth> and no cargo is being assigned
11:41:02  <andythenorth> the vehicle will sit waiting for a long time
11:41:09  <andythenorth> which is exactly what I see in my games
11:42:13  <andythenorth> I assume there’s some initial value to avoid this, but I am missing where it is
11:44:06  <frosch123> it tries to estimate how much a train can transport between stations per time
11:44:10  <frosch123> for that is uses the travel time
11:44:33  <frosch123> but, if the train is waiting for full load, the total time is longer than it would be if there was more cargo
11:44:57  <frosch123> so, it tries to figure out how much would be transported if the vehicle would be fullloaded immediately
11:45:52  *** gelignite [] has quit [Quit:]
11:45:59  <frosch123> the condition about the total time is probably only a fancy way to check whether the vehicle is timetables at all, or whether it is new
11:51:00  <andythenorth> what’s the initial value from GetTotalDuration(), for a vehicle that hasn’t run it’s full order list yet?
11:56:07  <andythenorth> I have followed GetTravelTime() back, but am in a nest of travel_time vars being set/read
12:01:17  <frosch123> i think it is zero
12:02:12  <frosch123> without conditional orders it may be the sum of all order times, with unmeasured ones taken as zero
12:02:25  <frosch123> no idea how conditional orders work, probably they don't :p
12:02:50  <andythenorth> I found something about conditional orders and duration being ignored
12:03:29  <andythenorth> also the cdist wiki page mentions that conditional orders are pretty much game-over because they’re undetermined in the linkgraph calculation
12:04:31  <frosch123> i think there is some function which tries to predict them
12:04:49  <frosch123> it assumes that stuff that is unlikely to change does not change (like vehicle age)
12:04:56  <frosch123> and ignores stuff that is likely to change
12:05:16  <andythenorth> I am not smart enough to understand LinkRefresher() properly, but I might just remove that guard against GetTotalDuration() and try it in a game :P
12:05:18  <frosch123> but well, there is always a case that won't work :)
12:05:44  <frosch123> either you micro stuff with conditional orders and timetables, or you automate things with cdist
12:06:04  <andythenorth> I think cdist is under-tested
12:06:12  <andythenorth> that isn’t supposed to be a big insight :P
12:06:23  <andythenorth> seems to have had a lot of use with pax
12:06:37  <andythenorth> but not so much with freight
12:06:40  <frosch123> yeah, it tries to make pax transport not pointless :p
12:07:11  <frosch123> i never liked pax, because there was no incentive to transport them anywhere
12:07:21  <andythenorth> my guess is (no evidence, just guessing) that most players don’t use full-load with pax
12:07:27  <frosch123> you transported them anywhere, and there were others to return
12:07:32  <andythenorth> or only use full-load where there is an ample supply of pax anyway
12:07:56  <andythenorth> the full-load check on LinkRefresher() would not be noticed by most people
12:09:13  <andythenorth> hmm, did I read this wrong?
12:09:36  <andythenorth> if (this->is_full_loading && this->vehicle->orders.list != NULL && st->index == vehicle->last_station_visited && this->vehicle->orders.list->GetTotalDuration() > (Ticks)this->vehicle->current_order_time) {
12:09:44  <andythenorth> ^ only applies if the vehicle uses timetables?
12:17:57  <frosch123> no
12:19:13  <andythenorth> but if I don’t have a timetable, how is “(Ticks)this->vehicle->current_order_time” true?
12:20:06  * andythenorth feels like “C++ for dummies” candidate :(
12:20:06  <andythenorth> sorry
12:20:24  <andythenorth> nvm, I found the answer to that
12:20:29  <frosch123> orders have times no matter whether they are timetabled or not
12:20:40  <frosch123> "timetabled" only means that the times are locked
12:20:53  <frosch123> "not timetabled" means estimated from last run
12:21:26  <andythenorth> @seen fonsinchen
12:21:26  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: fonsinchen was last seen in #openttd 22 weeks, 1 day, 17 hours, 42 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <fonsinchen> Samu, attach the msvc debugger to it, wait until it happens and check the stack trace.
12:21:27  <frosch123> if your vehicle travels very irregulary, i.e. sometimes takes 12 months to load sometimes 1 month, then that test will fail
12:21:49  <frosch123> there is no proper capacity estimate if you have to average it over 100 years :p
12:22:17  <frosch123> maybe make the train shorter
12:22:21  <andythenorth> if that test fails, capacity is increased anyway?
12:22:22  <frosch123> so it does not load forever
12:24:15  <andythenorth> ho, is there some way I can show the calculated capacity of each link in game?
12:24:43  <frosch123> open the timetable gui
12:25:02  <frosch123> check the total time, divide the total vehicle capacity by the total time
12:25:31  <andythenorth> I was hoping for something on the cargo flow display
12:25:37  <andythenorth> nvm :)
12:25:45  <frosch123> it displays relative loads only
12:26:03  <andythenorth> I’m convinced there’s a bug, or I’m stupid, or my expectations are hopelessly wrong, or all three
12:26:20  <frosch123> i think your expectations are wrong :)
12:26:33  <andythenorth> that leaves two other possibilities also
12:27:43  <andythenorth> what is the expected behaviour when a pickup station is served by vehicles on 2 or 3 routes, all with full-load orders? o_O
12:27:50  <frosch123> cdist works with estimates and predictions
12:28:00  <frosch123> there is always a certain percentage that is wrong
12:28:18  <frosch123> just stop looking at single stations :)
12:28:24  <andythenorth> I’m not
12:28:32  <frosch123> if you want to look at single stations, then disable cdist and use manual transfers :p
12:29:19  <andythenorth> or use multiple pickup stations, one per destination
12:31:38  *** roidal_ [] has joined #openttd
12:32:10  *** efess [] has joined #openttd
12:35:08  *** Arveen [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:36:27  <andythenorth> eh well, I have no evidence :)
12:36:54  <andythenorth> I had a savegame which showed this problem at all secondary industries, but it is broken :|
12:38:32  *** roidal [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:40:33  <TrueBrain> Going to move main website to a temporary server; expect some downtime (~10 minutes)
12:44:21  <andythenorth> did you pause pingdom? :P
12:44:50  <TrueBrain> owh dear, daily logrotate has to sync up
12:44:55  <TrueBrain> lolz .. I should have thought of that earlier :D
12:45:40  *** DorpsGek is now known as Guest1421
12:45:40  *** Guest1421 is now known as DorpsGek
12:45:40  *** DorpsGek [] has quit [Killed ( (Nick change collision))]
12:45:47  <TrueBrain> oops
12:45:50  <TrueBrain> that is an old version starting :D
12:46:04  *** DorpsGek [] has joined #openttd
12:46:07  *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ
12:48:31  <TrueBrain> okay, should all be back up and running
12:49:05  <andythenorth> \o/
12:49:14  <TrueBrain> hmm, content server is not restarting ..
12:49:15  <TrueBrain> hmm
12:49:44  <TrueBrain> there we go
12:49:51  <andythenorth> ‘snappier'
12:49:53  <TrueBrain> anyone with IPv6 online? Would love to know if that is operational :)
12:51:22  <Alberth> TrueBrain: ssh is operational
12:51:32  <TrueBrain> tnx, but different server :)
12:51:38  <TrueBrain> www and ottd_content is what I would love to know :)
12:51:56  <Alberth> main page works
12:52:03  <TrueBrain> IPv6 logo is there?
12:52:27  <Alberth> yep
12:52:33  * andythenorth tries cdist for freight again, with link graph calculation frequencies set to shortest possible
12:52:37  <TrueBrain> cool
12:52:51  <TrueBrain> I have issues pinging outwards from the machine on IPv6, but .. that can have so many reasons :P
12:56:52  <Alberth> could download Better vehicle names newgrf from the web, is that what you want to know?
12:57:45  *** amoebacqboy [~oftc-webi@] has joined #openttd
12:57:51  *** amoebacqboy [~oftc-webi@] has quit []
12:58:17  *** dustinm` [~dustinm`@2607:5300:100:200::160d] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
12:58:56  *** Flygon__ [] has joined #openttd
13:03:25  *** dustinm` [~dustinm`@2607:5300:100:200::160d] has joined #openttd
13:05:57  *** Flygon_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:17:19  <andythenorth> what are ‘Station: planned’ and ‘Amount: planned’ for?
13:18:31  <Alberth> being useless?
13:19:17  *** Pikka [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:20:22  <andythenorth> useless / redundant /s ? o_O
13:23:04  <Alberth> I wouldn't know, quite likely that fonso didn't consider them useless or redundant
13:23:20  <Alberth> it's just that I didn't find a use for it so far
13:23:26  <andythenorth> the values for both are the same
13:23:39  <andythenorth> planned is somewhat useful, it indicates the flow ratios
13:24:07  <Alberth> I only check actual waiting cargo
13:24:39  <Alberth> if there is too much, stuff must be done
13:28:32  <andythenorth> but what? o_O
13:28:54  * andythenorth back to the game ;)
13:29:12  <andythenorth> BB keeping me busy
13:34:52  <Alberth> add trains, remove trains, mostly
13:35:12  <Alberth> move trains from one destination to another, sometimes expanding tracks
13:41:24  * andythenorth wins another goal
13:47:15  <andythenorth> and another
13:47:50  <andythenorth> Busy Bee stands no chance
13:47:50  <andythenorth> I’ll beat it easily
13:47:50  <andythenorth> when do I win? o_O
13:51:11  <Alberth> you do, all the time :)
13:51:33  <andythenorth> awesome
13:53:07  <andythenorth> why does Squid cripple the speed of larger ships on rivers?
13:53:12  <andythenorth> seems daft
14:00:02  <frosch123> andythenorth: i think one is only cargo from that station, while the other is also with transfers from other
14:00:15  <frosch123> so, for pure loading stations they are the same
14:00:31  <andythenorth> ho ok
14:02:01  <andythenorth> too much alcohol at this station
14:02:36  *** zeknurn [] has joined #openttd
14:06:07  <andythenorth> OpenTTD: still fun after so many years :P
14:06:45  <Alberth> power plant may need some :)
14:07:13  <andythenorth> I fixed that :P
14:08:02  <Alberth> I liked the idea, clearly alcohol would burn quite well :p
14:09:32  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has joined #openttd
14:28:09  *** sim-al2 [] has joined #openttd
14:32:30  <andythenorth> hmm
14:32:41  <andythenorth> delivering supplies to these quarries will ruin my nice stable network
14:36:26  <Alberth> as designed by one  A. the North iirc :)
14:37:22  <Alberth> I tend to avoid those until bored enough with the normal expansion of the network
14:38:56  <andythenorth> in FIRS 2, the base production is higher, so less need for them
14:39:20  <andythenorth> I’m delivering some now because I am short of coal mines and need the extra production :P
14:40:44  <andythenorth> ha ha BB is repeating goals again :)
14:43:38  <Alberth> at the start I considered that feasible; if you make the request high enough, you had to do something to avoid the time limit
14:43:55  <Alberth> but now we don't have a time limit any more, so it's never going to work
14:49:55  <andythenorth> no time limit? o_O
14:50:01  * andythenorth misunderstands :)
14:52:20  *** Myhorta [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:54:07  <Alberth> you do have a time limit, but it's years
14:54:29  <Alberth> and it starts again after each delivery
14:54:51  <Alberth> so you can do things as slow as you like, unless "slow" implies years :)
14:57:53  <andythenorth> it’s a winning feature imo
14:58:10  <andythenorth> the repeating of goals I already won
less so :)
15:02:57  <Alberth> the idea was to make you add more incoming cargo
15:03:09  <Alberth> but perhaps it needs a new form of measuring
15:03:23  <Alberth> ie rate rather than amount
15:03:30  <andythenorth> because there’s already a route set up, I win easily when the goal repeats :)
15:03:35  <andythenorth> so I don’t do anything new
15:03:56  <andythenorth> do we keep the cargo monitor around for won goals?
15:04:03  * andythenorth likes the rate idea somewhat
15:04:09  <Alberth> currently we don't
15:04:12  <andythenorth> I think BB could offer a range of goal types and still be fun
15:09:18  *** Wormnest [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:11:27  *** supermop [] has joined #openttd
15:12:17  <supermop> yo andythenorth
15:12:24  <supermop> neat firs update
15:12:43  <andythenorth> :)
15:15:52  <supermop> rare to see such a bit of work come out in the summer
15:16:15  <supermop> i guess maybe summer is technically over already
15:16:21  <supermop> still hot here though
15:16:30  *** sla_ro|master [] has quit []
15:16:48  <andythenorth> September in the UK?
15:16:59  <andythenorth> hot here is 15°
15:18:31  *** sla_ro|master [] has joined #openttd
15:19:40  <supermop> 80 and humid here in new york
15:19:46  <supermop> so 30 for you
15:27:19  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
15:27:22  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
15:41:31  *** sla_ro|master2 [] has joined #openttd
15:44:47  *** sla_ro|master [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:30:47  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
17:03:36  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
17:03:39  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
17:19:28  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
17:22:12  <fonsinchen> I'm here, sometimes ...
17:25:05  <fonsinchen> Seems this is the one time that andythenorth is not in #openttd :/
17:25:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think there's any point in teaching him cargodist, anyway :p
17:26:46  <Eddi|zuHause> in other news, the train fever economy is somewhat terrible... you can only ever service one chain at a time, as soon as you service more, one will starve the other
17:29:46  * fonsinchen stops reading the lengthy backlog
17:30:58  <fonsinchen> Alberth: frosch123: The "planned" modes are useful because they tell you what cargodist wants to send over a link, exactly the projections and predictions you've discussed earlier.
17:31:40  <fonsinchen> "by station" and "by amount" are just different ways of displaying that information
17:33:10  <Alberth> Thanks for the information, but tbh I don't care about those numbers, I only use the currently waiting cargo for deciding what to do
17:36:44  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium]
17:41:17  *** Wormnest [] has joined #openttd
17:45:24  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27396 trunk/src/lang/latin.txt (2015-09-12 19:45:16 +0200 )
17:45:25  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:26  <DorpsGek> latin - 17 changes by Supercheese
17:53:00  *** Myhorta [] has joined #openttd
18:01:34  *** itsatacoshop247 [] has joined #openttd
18:29:26  <planetmaker> g'evening
18:40:50  *** Myhorta [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:43:29  <Alberth> evenink
18:50:49  *** Arveen [] has joined #openttd
18:56:09  <Supercheese> Factorio needs a Bananas-like content distribution system
18:56:46  <frosch123> yes, and it needs to not crash to console if one mod is incompatible :p
18:57:05  <frosch123> but more importantly, it needs a cargo chain view :)
18:57:23  <Supercheese> oh good heavens above
18:57:32  <frosch123> and a smallmap legend with resource types and highlighting
18:57:37  <Supercheese>  I just tried to shift+space to pause a Youtube video about Factorio -_-
18:57:45  <Supercheese> derp
19:04:48  <Wolf01> i use the "alt" mode all the time, it's easy to get lost on that game
19:05:03  <frosch123> "alt" is weird
19:05:18  <frosch123> i want it switched on in the viewport, and off in the smallmap
19:05:53  <frosch123> the smallmap is only red if on, which i don't consider that useful :)
19:20:23  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
19:28:39  <planetmaker> blathijs, heffer Ammler new versions of NML and OpenGFX. Mostly bug-fix to have a deterministic sorting of languages
19:29:31  <blathijs> \o/
19:43:33  *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd []
19:49:35  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:50:14  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has joined #openttd
19:54:20  *** Snail [] has joined #openttd
20:00:15  *** Myhorta [] has joined #openttd
20:04:28  <Taede> ello
20:04:42  <Wolf01> o/
20:15:25  *** Wormnest_ [] has joined #openttd
20:22:13  *** Wormnest [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:34:33  *** roidal_ [] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.2]
21:04:39  *** Arveen [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:16:02  *** itsatacoshop247 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:16:31  *** liq3 [] has quit []
21:51:25  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:12:18  *** sla_ro|master2 [] has quit []
22:18:58  *** gelignite [] has joined #openttd
22:35:28  *** Wormnest_ [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:15:32  *** supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk