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[~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:13:30 *** Progman [~progman@p57A185F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:16:20 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d025177.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:25:52 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 05:26:03 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:26:36 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 06:10:51 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483bd7.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 06:11:26 *** roidal [~roland@62-46-143-87.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 06:12:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:18:34 <andythenorth> o/ 06:20:41 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 06:21:09 * Supercheese has lost all of his free time to Factorio 06:21:39 <Supercheese> poor openttd.exe, all unclicked on 06:22:09 <Supercheese> or, well, .lnk but close enough 06:23:06 <Supercheese> but I hear tales of new FIRS 06:23:23 <andythenorth> is alphas 06:23:35 <andythenorth> I tried to form a factorio addiction 06:23:40 <andythenorth> but I just couldnât manage it 06:23:41 <Supercheese> Oh sweet, booze-fired power plants 06:23:46 <andythenorth> winning 06:23:48 <Supercheese> ethanol is pretty good for burning 06:23:53 <Supercheese> can run your car off of it 06:24:40 <Supercheese> should have been feature, not bug 06:25:06 <Supercheese> Gasoline Station; Accepts: Alcohol, Gasoline :P 06:31:18 <andythenorth> ach 06:31:29 <andythenorth> this power plant fix means providing all the layouts âproperly' 06:31:30 <andythenorth> :P 06:49:04 *** itsatacoshop247 [~itsatacos@ip98-176-6-104.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:59:23 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 06:59:26 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 06:59:40 *** Pikka [~Octomom@c114-77-161-48.fitzg3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:59:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A185F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:27 <andythenorth> moin 07:08:37 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:28:01 <andythenorth> hmm 07:28:07 <andythenorth> maybe I should play a NARS 2 game 07:28:11 <andythenorth> been a while 07:30:02 <andythenorth> Pikka: is there a new NARS with no BAD FEATURES? o_O 07:50:54 <Pikka> hello 07:50:59 <Pikka> yes there is, 2.5 07:51:24 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 07:52:33 * andythenorth tries that one 07:52:46 <andythenorth> I am trying a game with fewer of my grfs in it :P 07:52:51 <Pikka> new as in about 10 months old 07:52:52 <andythenorth> so I donât have to fix them 07:52:54 <Pikka> how rare 07:53:00 <andythenorth> yes 07:57:09 <andythenorth> Pikka bob o_O https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7466/clay_pit_with_conveyors.mov 07:57:59 <Pikka> how big is it? internet in this place is rubbish 07:58:07 <andythenorth> giants 07:58:11 <andythenorth> also it has to get to Australia 07:58:27 <andythenorth> 14MB 07:58:29 <Pikka> australia isn't a problem, just Stafford 07:58:42 <Pikka> it's up to 2. 07:58:53 <Pikka> 2.5 07:58:56 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i just found the screwdriver 08:02:02 <andythenorth> :) 08:09:11 <Pikka> I see, andythenorth :) 08:10:08 <Alberth> 2.51 :p 08:10:31 <andythenorth> such animations :P 08:10:42 <andythenorth> remind what the point of cdist is? 08:10:57 <Alberth> doing automagic transfer orders? 08:11:18 <Alberth> @calc 200.0 / 14 08:11:18 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 14.2857142857 08:11:37 <Alberth> hmm, can't have all 64 industries animated in 200MB :p 08:13:12 <andythenorth> there is some reason I turned cdist off for freight 08:13:15 <Alberth> looks like an opportunity to smash the record set by V :) 08:13:36 <Alberth> supplies to long distances doesn't really work? 08:13:46 <andythenorth> hmm 08:13:49 <andythenorth> oh I remember 08:13:49 <Alberth> unless you set it to ignore distances 08:14:09 <andythenorth> itâs because you have to build non-bridged networks anyway 08:14:16 <andythenorth> so cdist is doing literally nothing useful 08:14:43 <Alberth> I missed that part of the course, apparently 08:14:53 <andythenorth> separate pickup station is required for every cargo destination 08:15:13 <Alberth> why? 08:15:32 <andythenorth> trying to remember 08:15:49 <Alberth> cdist cannot move cargo after allocating? 08:15:56 <andythenorth> ah itâs because cdist âwantsâ to assign cargo to routes differently to where I want it to go 08:16:08 <andythenorth> but cdist doesnât assign cargo to routes, only next hop 08:16:09 <andythenorth> so eh 08:16:14 <andythenorth> it doesnât work 08:16:45 <andythenorth> anyway, the result of using cdist for freight is very large waiting amounts at stations, that never clear 08:16:46 <Alberth> right, you don't want to do what cdist says :p 08:17:06 <andythenorth> and also some routes are starved of cargo completely 08:17:30 <Alberth> distance ? 08:17:49 <Alberth> but in general, yeah, you do have to follow what cdist decides 08:18:16 <andythenorth> yeah 08:18:19 <andythenorth> it doesnât work 08:18:33 <andythenorth> oh, but I think my workaround is flawed, industries only distribute to 2 highest rated pickup stations? 08:18:39 <Alberth> I have no trouble with it, but ymmv 08:19:24 <Alberth> could be 08:21:22 * andythenorth has to remember to use transfer orders again :) 08:21:54 <andythenorth> is it known how cdist chooses to assign cargo to next hop? 08:22:28 <Eddi|zuHause> what else would it do? 08:23:06 <andythenorth> whatâs the criteria though? 08:23:37 <andythenorth> if I can understand the rules, I might be able to beat it 08:23:44 <andythenorth> currently it beats me every game I try it in 08:24:07 <andythenorth> I canât figure out any heuristic for defeating cdist though 08:24:44 <Supercheese> distribution mode: manual 08:24:52 <andythenorth> thatâs just cheat mode 08:24:55 <Supercheese> works for me eh 08:25:00 <andythenorth> dificulty: sandbox 08:25:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand your problem with it 08:25:42 <andythenorth> I donât understand how to beat it 08:26:38 <Eddi|zuHause> tbh, freight was always more of a side dish in my networks, trying to handle all the passengers trumps everything and takes all the attention 08:26:41 <Supercheese> Sandbox mode is the best mode 08:26:47 <Supercheese> well, for singleplayer 08:26:57 <Supercheese> script goals are nice for MP 08:27:07 <Eddi|zuHause> also, last time i used CDIST was probably 5 years ago 08:27:08 <andythenorth> you canât play script goals with cdist 08:27:13 <andythenorth> theyâre opposed 08:27:20 <Supercheese> sure, I'm not considering cdist 08:27:46 <Supercheese> I have it off all the time 08:28:06 <Supercheese> dest looked much more interesting to me than dist, really 08:28:20 <Supercheese> but I never did get around to trying YACD or whatnot 08:28:39 <andythenorth> what YACD does for gameplay can be done with GS more or less 08:28:46 <andythenorth> different implementation, similar effect on game 08:28:48 <Supercheese> yeah, it does seem that way 08:28:59 <andythenorth> YACD was very compelling though 08:29:14 <Supercheese> someone⢠should try YACD-as-GS 08:29:35 <Eddi|zuHause> that's unlikely to work 08:29:40 <andythenorth> wouldnât work 08:29:46 <andythenorth> Busy Bee is as close as youâll get 08:29:54 <andythenorth> Busy Bee with 100s of goals :P 08:30:11 <Supercheese> I suppose so, yeah 08:32:10 * andythenorth reads the wiki page on cdist 08:32:20 <andythenorth> I want to know how to win against it 08:32:53 <Supercheese> The only winning move is not to play 08:33:12 <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/Passenger_and_cargo_distribution 08:34:24 <andythenorth> hmm 08:34:30 <andythenorth> nothing there about how next hop is chosen 08:34:47 <andythenorth> âCargodist ... chooses destinations for the passengers involvedâ 08:34:50 <andythenorth> is all 08:37:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's a flow problem. all the sources and destinations get weights on them, and inbetween there will be flows balanced 08:37:52 * andythenorth is reading src/linkgraph 08:38:07 <andythenorth> I am confused about whether cdist assigns destinations for a packet or not 08:38:12 <andythenorth> I thought not 08:38:46 <andythenorth> my assumption is that it ignore specific packets, looks only at the cargo type, and splits to next hop in some ratio between possible choices 08:39:06 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: imagine it like an electric network. each link is a resistor, and you have a bunch of + and - 08:39:17 <andythenorth> âignoresâ = there is no storage of any destination in packets, is my assumption 08:40:16 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host15-216-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 08:40:18 <Eddi|zuHause> well, yes. the packet does not store this data, because it doesn't need it. the flow has been decided way earlier 08:40:25 <Wolf01> hi o/ 08:40:48 <andythenorth> ok 08:40:52 <andythenorth> that makes complete sense 08:41:04 <andythenorth> so my problem resolves to âdemand appears to be totally arbitrary when Iâm playing' 08:41:28 <andythenorth> it obviously isnât arbitrary, but the results arenât pleasing, and thereâs no way to influence it 08:41:35 <andythenorth> which is not a good game 08:42:40 <Eddi|zuHause> you could try to expose the demand weights to scripts 08:42:42 * Wolf01 is in wall.e building mode 08:43:07 <andythenorth> by ânot pleasingâ I mean âcargo builds up in vast quantities at stations, no matter what I do 08:43:16 <andythenorth> and in OpenTTD, that is a sign that you are losing the game 08:43:46 <andythenorth> that problem simply does not occur if each pickup station handles only one destination per cargo 08:44:25 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the station window tells you which next hop is overloaded 08:44:40 <andythenorth> to which the solution is add more vehicles 08:44:47 <andythenorth> so more cargo is then assigned 08:44:54 <andythenorth> itâs a losing strategy 08:45:46 <andythenorth> * Iâm not convinced that happens, it just looks like what happens 08:51:50 <andythenorth> hmm ChangeShare and so on are where the magic happens 08:51:57 <andythenorth> in station_cmd.cpp 08:53:15 <andythenorth> I wonder if thereâs a feedback condition something like: 08:53:28 <andythenorth> - station has existing good service on route A-B 08:53:38 <andythenorth> - a vehicle is added for route A-C 08:54:06 <andythenorth> the share of flow assigned to A-C is relatively tiny 08:54:14 <andythenorth> - the vehicle takes a long time to load and deliver 08:54:27 <andythenorth> - the share is refreshed and continues to be calculated as tiny 08:56:32 <andythenorth> the unwanted behaviour I see is when adding a second or third route to a high output industry where the first route is well served, then the vehicles on the second or third route load very slowly 08:59:17 <andythenorth> wall of text :( 09:03:19 <peter1138> tl;dr 09:03:41 <andythenorth> cdist no worky 09:06:37 <peter1138> because it's not cdest 09:06:55 <andythenorth> bitchy 09:12:37 * andythenorth must to football and so on 09:12:39 <andythenorth> bbl 09:12:39 <Alberth> cdist is slow in adapting 09:12:48 <Alberth> bye 09:12:52 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 09:15:57 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f745255.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 09:31:21 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 09:33:02 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:37:21 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-109-233.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 09:49:42 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:50:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm so amazed at how train fever ever so slightly fails at being enjoyable. they introduce crossings, but in the least flexible way possible, which fits almost no situation 09:50:43 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:50:46 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 09:51:45 <Supercheese> I tried train fever once, couldn't get the hang of it 09:51:57 <Supercheese> guess I'm too used to TTD-style gameplay 09:52:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i find it somewhat cool, but the construction is ever so annoying 09:52:23 <Supercheese> like how I tried Locomotion and didn't like the construction method/interface 09:52:37 <Supercheese> similar issue eh 09:52:46 <Supercheese> Factorio on the other hand is great 09:53:01 <frosch123> another victim :p 09:53:10 <Supercheese> yeap 09:53:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i played the demo, didn't get addicted. 09:53:44 <Wolf01> lol, eddi, i used them a lot in front of the stations, i then discovered they added them just 4 days before i started to play the game XD 09:54:19 <Supercheese> I hear rumors that Factorio will be going NUTS 09:54:31 <frosch123> they are no rumors 09:54:35 <frosch123> they are confirmed news :) 09:54:36 <Supercheese> :D 09:55:10 <frosch123> next enemy class will be a slug 09:55:14 <blathijs> NUTS? 09:55:23 <Supercheese> oh snap 09:55:39 <Supercheese> same slugs as on the farm tiles perhaps 09:55:41 <frosch123> (that was a rumor though :p) 09:56:41 <frosch123> blathijs: there are absolutely no relations or overlaps between ottd community and factory employees 09:57:03 <frosch123> *factorio 09:57:50 <frosch123> just as there are absolutely no relation to opendune and freerct 09:58:07 <Supercheese> ;) 09:58:30 <blathijs> frosch123: Uh, but I just don't know what NUTS means :-) 09:58:37 <Supercheese> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts 09:58:59 <Supercheese> could have mentioned YETI but there's no pun to be had there 09:59:12 <frosch123> oh right, the new character model 09:59:22 <Eddi|zuHause> puns are overrated 09:59:34 <Eddi|zuHause> err, no they aren't, actually :p 10:00:39 <Supercheese> well, I'll probably translate for Factorio as well, at least it has far fewer strings, but there is some challenging vocabulary 10:01:13 <frosch123> don't confuse wires and cables :) 10:01:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still not quite sure what your target audience actually is :p 10:01:27 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:01:37 <Supercheese> well, other people had translated Minecraft before I even got there 10:01:41 <Supercheese> so clearly I am not the only one 10:01:43 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i haven't figured that out for ottd either 10:02:30 <Supercheese> but it is mostly a "because I can" kind of thing, and to keep my language skills from getting rusty 10:02:48 <frosch123> always useful in case aliens visit :) 10:03:43 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: aliens that have been travelling for 1000 years after listening in? 10:03:44 <Supercheese> and, y'know, quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur 10:06:05 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: obviously all polytheism originates from aliens :p 10:06:55 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i did watch stargate 10:07:40 <Supercheese> also there was actually a Flyspray ticket for OTTD specifically requesting a Latin translation 10:08:14 <Supercheese> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/4974 10:08:38 <frosch123> ah, by eddi's best friend 10:08:47 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: there you have your audience :) 10:09:11 <Supercheese> I haven't ever heard from the fellow about it, though :/ 10:09:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i have successfully suppressed that memory 10:15:30 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B210.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 10:27:58 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 10:30:21 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 10:35:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 10:55:05 <andythenorth> EGrass 10:55:09 <andythenorth> nvm 10:57:11 <Supercheese> I prefer bluegrass 11:23:05 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483bd7.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:23:41 <andythenorth> in station_cmd.cpp, how can IncreaseStats() call itself? 11:23:50 * andythenorth doesnât understand recursive functions 11:24:03 <andythenorth> how can / how does /s 11:26:03 <frosch123> it doesn't call itself 11:26:11 <frosch123> it calls an overloaded function with the same name 11:26:22 <andythenorth> oic 11:27:20 * andythenorth wikis 11:27:27 <andythenorth> that is...special 11:28:39 * andythenorth tries to find the call to that 11:30:26 <andythenorth> is there a web view of openttd src with line numbers? 11:30:37 * andythenorth canât find one in git.openttd.org 11:30:51 <andythenorth> oh, âblobâ :P 11:31:07 <andythenorth> that means binary object in my world, i.e. downloadable file :P 11:31:38 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:13 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 11:33:04 <andythenorth> how is total_duration calculated for non-timetabled vehicles? 11:38:29 <frosch123> hg.openttd.org 11:38:56 <frosch123> cdist monitors travel times anyway 11:39:04 <frosch123> the timetable gui also shows them 11:39:11 <frosch123> it only means that the times are updated all the time 11:39:50 <andythenorth> I am curious about http://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=blob;f=src/linkgraph/refresh.cpp;h=02f27f40c1018b83de63b9dda3757ae2d3995ea5;hb=HEAD#l218 11:39:52 <andythenorth> the comment 11:40:08 <andythenorth> âDon't do that if the vehicle has been waiting for longer than the entire order list is supposed to take, though. If that is the case the total duration is probably far off and we'd greatly overestimate the capacity by increasing.â 11:40:10 <andythenorth> specifically 11:40:34 <andythenorth> the vehicle will wait for cargo 11:40:51 <andythenorth> but if cdist calculates capacity based on the waiting time 11:40:56 <andythenorth> and no cargo is being assigned 11:41:02 <andythenorth> the vehicle will sit waiting for a long time 11:41:09 <andythenorth> which is exactly what I see in my games 11:42:13 <andythenorth> I assume thereâs some initial value to avoid this, but I am missing where it is 11:44:06 <frosch123> it tries to estimate how much a train can transport between stations per time 11:44:10 <frosch123> for that is uses the travel time 11:44:33 <frosch123> but, if the train is waiting for full load, the total time is longer than it would be if there was more cargo 11:44:57 <frosch123> so, it tries to figure out how much would be transported if the vehicle would be fullloaded immediately 11:45:52 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-109-233.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 11:45:59 <frosch123> the condition about the total time is probably only a fancy way to check whether the vehicle is timetables at all, or whether it is new 11:51:00 <andythenorth> whatâs the initial value from GetTotalDuration(), for a vehicle that hasnât run itâs full order list yet? 11:56:07 <andythenorth> I have followed GetTravelTime() back, but am in a nest of travel_time vars being set/read 12:01:17 <frosch123> i think it is zero 12:02:12 <frosch123> without conditional orders it may be the sum of all order times, with unmeasured ones taken as zero 12:02:25 <frosch123> no idea how conditional orders work, probably they don't :p 12:02:50 <andythenorth> I found something about conditional orders and duration being ignored 12:03:29 <andythenorth> also the cdist wiki page mentions that conditional orders are pretty much game-over because theyâre undetermined in the linkgraph calculation 12:04:31 <frosch123> i think there is some function which tries to predict them 12:04:49 <frosch123> it assumes that stuff that is unlikely to change does not change (like vehicle age) 12:04:56 <frosch123> and ignores stuff that is likely to change 12:05:16 <andythenorth> I am not smart enough to understand LinkRefresher() properly, but I might just remove that guard against GetTotalDuration() and try it in a game :P 12:05:18 <frosch123> but well, there is always a case that won't work :) 12:05:44 <frosch123> either you micro stuff with conditional orders and timetables, or you automate things with cdist 12:06:04 <andythenorth> I think cdist is under-tested 12:06:12 <andythenorth> that isnât supposed to be a big insight :P 12:06:23 <andythenorth> seems to have had a lot of use with pax 12:06:37 <andythenorth> but not so much with freight 12:06:40 <frosch123> yeah, it tries to make pax transport not pointless :p 12:07:11 <frosch123> i never liked pax, because there was no incentive to transport them anywhere 12:07:21 <andythenorth> my guess is (no evidence, just guessing) that most players donât use full-load with pax 12:07:27 <frosch123> you transported them anywhere, and there were others to return 12:07:32 <andythenorth> or only use full-load where there is an ample supply of pax anyway 12:07:56 <andythenorth> the full-load check on LinkRefresher() would not be noticed by most people 12:09:13 <andythenorth> hmm, did I read this wrong? 12:09:36 <andythenorth> if (this->is_full_loading && this->vehicle->orders.list != NULL && st->index == vehicle->last_station_visited && this->vehicle->orders.list->GetTotalDuration() > (Ticks)this->vehicle->current_order_time) { 12:09:44 <andythenorth> ^ only applies if the vehicle uses timetables? 12:17:57 <frosch123> no 12:19:13 <andythenorth> but if I donât have a timetable, how is â(Ticks)this->vehicle->current_order_timeâ true? 12:20:06 * andythenorth feels like âC++ for dummiesâ candidate :( 12:20:06 <andythenorth> sorry 12:20:24 <andythenorth> nvm, I found the answer to that 12:20:29 <frosch123> orders have times no matter whether they are timetabled or not 12:20:40 <frosch123> "timetabled" only means that the times are locked 12:20:53 <frosch123> "not timetabled" means estimated from last run 12:21:26 <andythenorth> @seen fonsinchen 12:21:26 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: fonsinchen was last seen in #openttd 22 weeks, 1 day, 17 hours, 42 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <fonsinchen> Samu, attach the msvc debugger to it, wait until it happens and check the stack trace. 12:21:27 <frosch123> if your vehicle travels very irregulary, i.e. sometimes takes 12 months to load sometimes 1 month, then that test will fail 12:21:49 <frosch123> there is no proper capacity estimate if you have to average it over 100 years :p 12:22:17 <frosch123> maybe make the train shorter 12:22:21 <andythenorth> if that test fails, capacity is increased anyway? 12:22:22 <frosch123> so it does not load forever 12:24:15 <andythenorth> ho, is there some way I can show the calculated capacity of each link in game? 12:24:43 <frosch123> open the timetable gui 12:25:02 <frosch123> check the total time, divide the total vehicle capacity by the total time 12:25:31 <andythenorth> I was hoping for something on the cargo flow display 12:25:37 <andythenorth> nvm :) 12:25:45 <frosch123> it displays relative loads only 12:26:03 <andythenorth> Iâm convinced thereâs a bug, or Iâm stupid, or my expectations are hopelessly wrong, or all three 12:26:20 <frosch123> i think your expectations are wrong :) 12:26:33 <andythenorth> that leaves two other possibilities also 12:27:43 <andythenorth> what is the expected behaviour when a pickup station is served by vehicles on 2 or 3 routes, all with full-load orders? o_O 12:27:50 <frosch123> cdist works with estimates and predictions 12:28:00 <frosch123> there is always a certain percentage that is wrong 12:28:18 <frosch123> just stop looking at single stations :) 12:28:24 <andythenorth> Iâm not 12:28:32 <frosch123> if you want to look at single stations, then disable cdist and use manual transfers :p 12:29:19 <andythenorth> or use multiple pickup stations, one per destination 12:31:38 *** roidal_ [~roland@194-152-172-248.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 12:32:10 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 12:35:08 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:36:27 <andythenorth> eh well, I have no evidence :) 12:36:54 <andythenorth> I had a savegame which showed this problem at all secondary industries, but it is broken :| 12:38:32 *** roidal [~roland@62-46-143-87.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:40:33 <TrueBrain> Going to move main openttd.org website to a temporary server; expect some downtime (~10 minutes) 12:44:21 <andythenorth> did you pause pingdom? :P 12:44:50 <TrueBrain> owh dear, daily logrotate has to sync up 12:44:55 <TrueBrain> lolz .. I should have thought of that earlier :D 12:45:40 *** DorpsGek is now known as Guest1421 12:45:40 *** Guest1421 is now known as DorpsGek 12:45:40 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@000128f9.user.oftc.net] has quit [Killed (charon.oftc.net (Nick change collision))] 12:45:47 <TrueBrain> oops 12:45:50 <TrueBrain> that is an old version starting :D 12:46:04 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@000128f9.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:46:07 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 12:48:31 <TrueBrain> okay, should all be back up and running 12:49:05 <andythenorth> \o/ 12:49:14 <TrueBrain> hmm, content server is not restarting .. 12:49:15 <TrueBrain> hmm 12:49:44 <TrueBrain> there we go 12:49:51 <andythenorth> âsnappier' 12:49:53 <TrueBrain> anyone with IPv6 online? Would love to know if that is operational :) 12:51:22 <Alberth> TrueBrain: ssh is operational 12:51:32 <TrueBrain> tnx, but different server :) 12:51:38 <TrueBrain> www and ottd_content is what I would love to know :) 12:51:56 <Alberth> main page works 12:52:03 <TrueBrain> IPv6 logo is there? 12:52:27 <Alberth> yep 12:52:33 * andythenorth tries cdist for freight again, with link graph calculation frequencies set to shortest possible 12:52:37 <TrueBrain> cool 12:52:51 <TrueBrain> I have issues pinging outwards from the machine on IPv6, but .. that can have so many reasons :P 12:56:52 <Alberth> could download Better vehicle names newgrf from the web, is that what you want to know? 12:57:45 *** amoebacqboy [~oftc-webi@125.82.14.248] has joined #openttd 12:57:51 *** amoebacqboy [~oftc-webi@125.82.14.248] has quit [] 12:58:17 *** dustinm` [~dustinm`@2607:5300:100:200::160d] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:58:56 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-82-143.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 13:03:25 *** dustinm` [~dustinm`@2607:5300:100:200::160d] has joined #openttd 13:05:57 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-82-143.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:17:19 <andythenorth> what are âStation: plannedâ and âAmount: plannedâ for? 13:18:31 <Alberth> being useless? 13:19:17 *** Pikka [~Octomom@c114-77-161-48.fitzg3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:20:22 <andythenorth> useless / redundant /s ? o_O 13:23:04 <Alberth> I wouldn't know, quite likely that fonso didn't consider them useless or redundant 13:23:20 <Alberth> it's just that I didn't find a use for it so far 13:23:26 <andythenorth> the values for both are the same 13:23:39 <andythenorth> planned is somewhat useful, it indicates the flow ratios 13:24:07 <Alberth> I only check actual waiting cargo 13:24:39 <Alberth> if there is too much, stuff must be done 13:28:32 <andythenorth> but what? o_O 13:28:54 * andythenorth back to the game ;) 13:29:12 <andythenorth> BB keeping me busy 13:34:52 <Alberth> add trains, remove trains, mostly 13:35:12 <Alberth> move trains from one destination to another, sometimes expanding tracks 13:41:24 * andythenorth wins another goal 13:47:15 <andythenorth> and another 13:47:50 <andythenorth> Busy Bee stands no chance 13:47:50 <andythenorth> Iâll beat it easily 13:47:50 <andythenorth> when do I win? o_O 13:51:11 <Alberth> you do, all the time :) 13:51:33 <andythenorth> awesome 13:53:07 <andythenorth> why does Squid cripple the speed of larger ships on rivers? 13:53:12 <andythenorth> seems daft 14:00:02 <frosch123> andythenorth: i think one is only cargo from that station, while the other is also with transfers from other 14:00:15 <frosch123> so, for pure loading stations they are the same 14:00:31 <andythenorth> ho ok 14:02:01 <andythenorth> too much alcohol at this station 14:02:36 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483bd7.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 14:06:07 <andythenorth> OpenTTD: still fun after so many years :P 14:06:45 <Alberth> power plant may need some :) 14:07:13 <andythenorth> I fixed that :P 14:08:02 <Alberth> I liked the idea, clearly alcohol would burn quite well :p 14:09:32 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 14:28:09 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 14:32:30 <andythenorth> hmm 14:32:41 <andythenorth> delivering supplies to these quarries will ruin my nice stable network 14:36:26 <Alberth> as designed by one A. the North iirc :) 14:37:22 <Alberth> I tend to avoid those until bored enough with the normal expansion of the network 14:38:56 <andythenorth> in FIRS 2, the base production is higher, so less need for them 14:39:20 <andythenorth> Iâm delivering some now because I am short of coal mines and need the extra production :P 14:40:44 <andythenorth> ha ha BB is repeating goals again :) 14:43:38 <Alberth> at the start I considered that feasible; if you make the request high enough, you had to do something to avoid the time limit 14:43:55 <Alberth> but now we don't have a time limit any more, so it's never going to work 14:49:55 <andythenorth> no time limit? o_O 14:50:01 * andythenorth misunderstands :) 14:52:20 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:07 <Alberth> you do have a time limit, but it's years 14:54:29 <Alberth> and it starts again after each delivery 14:54:51 <Alberth> so you can do things as slow as you like, unless "slow" implies years :) 14:57:53 <andythenorth> itâs a winning feature imo 14:58:10 <andythenorth> the repeating of goals I already wonâŠless so :) 15:02:57 <Alberth> the idea was to make you add more incoming cargo 15:03:09 <Alberth> but perhaps it needs a new form of measuring 15:03:23 <Alberth> ie rate rather than amount 15:03:30 <andythenorth> because thereâs already a route set up, I win easily when the goal repeats :) 15:03:35 <andythenorth> so I donât do anything new 15:03:56 <andythenorth> do we keep the cargo monitor around for won goals? 15:04:03 * andythenorth likes the rate idea somewhat 15:04:09 <Alberth> currently we don't 15:04:12 <andythenorth> I think BB could offer a range of goal types and still be fun 15:09:18 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:11:27 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-108-6-12-46.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 15:12:17 <supermop> yo andythenorth 15:12:24 <supermop> neat firs update 15:12:43 <andythenorth> :) 15:15:52 <supermop> rare to see such a bit of work come out in the summer 15:16:15 <supermop> i guess maybe summer is technically over already 15:16:21 <supermop> still hot here though 15:16:30 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 15:16:48 <andythenorth> September in the UK? 15:16:59 <andythenorth> hot here is 15° 15:18:31 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 15:19:40 <supermop> 80 and humid here in new york 15:19:46 <supermop> so 30 for you 15:27:19 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:27:22 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 15:41:31 *** sla_ro|master2 [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 15:44:47 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:30:47 *** Progman [~progman@p57A185F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:03:36 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:03:39 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:19:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:22:12 <fonsinchen> I'm here, sometimes ... 17:25:05 <fonsinchen> Seems this is the one time that andythenorth is not in #openttd :/ 17:25:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think there's any point in teaching him cargodist, anyway :p 17:26:46 <Eddi|zuHause> in other news, the train fever economy is somewhat terrible... you can only ever service one chain at a time, as soon as you service more, one will starve the other 17:29:46 * fonsinchen stops reading the lengthy backlog 17:30:58 <fonsinchen> Alberth: frosch123: The "planned" modes are useful because they tell you what cargodist wants to send over a link, exactly the projections and predictions you've discussed earlier. 17:31:40 <fonsinchen> "by station" and "by amount" are just different ways of displaying that information 17:33:10 <Alberth> Thanks for the information, but tbh I don't care about those numbers, I only use the currently waiting cargo for deciding what to do 17:36:44 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:41:17 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 17:45:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27396 trunk/src/lang/latin.txt (2015-09-12 19:45:16 +0200 ) 17:45:25 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:26 <DorpsGek> latin - 17 changes by Supercheese 17:53:00 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:01:34 *** itsatacoshop247 [~itsatacos@ip98-176-6-104.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 18:29:26 <planetmaker> g'evening 18:40:50 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:43:29 <Alberth> evenink 18:50:49 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 18:56:09 <Supercheese> Factorio needs a Bananas-like content distribution system 18:56:46 <frosch123> yes, and it needs to not crash to console if one mod is incompatible :p 18:57:05 <frosch123> but more importantly, it needs a cargo chain view :) 18:57:23 <Supercheese> oh good heavens above 18:57:32 <frosch123> and a smallmap legend with resource types and highlighting 18:57:37 <Supercheese> I just tried to shift+space to pause a Youtube video about Factorio -_- 18:57:45 <Supercheese> derp 19:04:48 <Wolf01> i use the "alt" mode all the time, it's easy to get lost on that game 19:05:03 <frosch123> "alt" is weird 19:05:18 <frosch123> i want it switched on in the viewport, and off in the smallmap 19:05:53 <frosch123> the smallmap is only red if on, which i don't consider that useful :) 19:20:23 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f745255.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 19:28:39 <planetmaker> blathijs, heffer Ammler new versions of NML and OpenGFX. Mostly bug-fix to have a deterministic sorting of languages 19:29:31 <blathijs> \o/ 19:43:33 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 19:49:35 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B210.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:50:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B210.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:54:20 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:00:15 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:04:28 <Taede> ello 20:04:42 <Wolf01> o/ 20:15:25 *** Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 20:22:13 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:34:33 *** roidal_ [~roland@194-152-172-248.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.2] 21:04:39 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:02 *** itsatacoshop247 [~itsatacos@ip98-176-6-104.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:16:31 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 21:51:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A185F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:18 *** sla_ro|master2 [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 22:18:58 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-109-233.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 22:35:28 *** Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:15:32 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-108-6-12-46.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]