Log for #openttd on 1st November 2015:
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00:22:08  <Wolf01> 'night
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04:27:20  <michaelrul3s> Is anyone else having problems loading the wiki?
04:27:47  <michaelrul3s>
04:28:12  <michaelrul3s> The part that fucks me over is this "This site uses HTTP Strict Transport Security (HSTS) to specify that Firefox only connect to it securely. As a result, it is not possible to add an exception for this certificate."
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05:13:33  <michaelrul3s> Welp, I appreciated the response
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08:35:24  <andythenorth> o/
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08:44:37  <Alberth> o/
08:45:13  <andythenorth> Alberth: I considered siting industries on opposite sides of the map
08:45:36  <andythenorth> I can’t figure out how to avoid pathological cases though :)
08:45:40  <andythenorth> e.g. no water on one side, for ports
08:45:51  <andythenorth> snow on another side, for farms
08:45:52  <andythenorth> etc
08:46:08  <Alberth> drop the restriction for the first 1-3 ?
08:46:26  <Alberth> for ports etc, I  wouldn't do it, too many restrictions already
08:47:22  <Alberth> or you have to make it part of the map requirements for that economy, but too fragile, I guess
08:48:26  <andythenorth> would simply enforcing a large minimum distance have the same effect?
08:48:47  <andythenorth> most industry types already enforce a min. distance primary <-> secondary
08:48:57  <andythenorth> usually 16 tiles or so
08:57:07  <Alberth> but then the industry still spreads over the entire map, mostly?
09:00:07  <andythenorth> yup
09:00:22  <andythenorth> remind me what your suggestion was? :)
09:00:35  <andythenorth> I was afk yesterday sorry, only saw it very later yesterday
09:04:00  <Alberth> somewhat trying to make the map not the same everywhere
09:04:42  <Alberth> ie no matter where you look at the map, the same kind of connections can be made
09:04:55  <Alberth> map size just decides how often you can do that
09:07:02  <Alberth> hehe, coal mines north and power plants south, I can see the comments "he, I have to make a track all across my 4096x4096 map to make a connection" :p
09:08:16  <Alberth> "smaller map economy"  :p
09:12:31  <andythenorth> newgrf can check map co-ords
09:12:35  <andythenorth> during construction
09:13:17  <andythenorth> I do wonder if it’s better done by GS though
09:15:35  <Alberth> firs_gs  :)
09:16:00  <andythenorth> industry IDs are stable enough :P
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10:00:27  <Wolf01> o/
10:01:48  <__ln__> you again
10:01:59  <Wolf01> yeah, always me
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10:05:23  <__ln__> are wolves indexed with a 0-based or 1-based index?
10:06:01  <Wolf01> looks like 0-based
10:06:31  <Wolf01> a search on google returned a lot of wolf00
10:07:19  <Wolf01> but i'm wolf01 because wolf/wolf1 were already taken in in 1998 :P
10:08:20  <__ln__> tough :P
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10:41:50  <Alberth> moin
10:41:58  <Pikka> noin
10:44:52  <Wolf01> boin
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11:07:16  <Terkhen> hello
11:07:55  <Wolf01> o/
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11:20:29  <frosch123> \o
11:20:44  <Wolf01> with a leg too!
11:20:47  <Wolf01> o/
11:21:12  <frosch123> for a second i thought i had to escape the \ :)
11:22:46  <Wolf01> ahah
11:22:47  <Rubidium> only the / at the begin, right?
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11:23:09  <Rubidium> /part
11:23:14  <Wolf01> nah, just press ctrl along with enter
11:23:17  <Wolf01> /hey
11:23:25  <Wolf01> at least on mirc
11:23:39  <frosch123> /hey
11:23:47  <frosch123> interesting, same on konvesation
11:24:30  * Rubidium is sad you didn't do that with something more dangerous
11:25:11  <Wolf01> like /nickserv identify mypassword?
11:25:12  <frosch123> all dangerous stuff starts with @
11:25:16  <frosch123> and i doubt it works for that
11:25:20  <Eddi|zuHause> /amsg you all suck
11:26:06  <Rubidium> frosch123: IMHO /part and/or /quit are more than dangerous enough
11:29:30  <frosch123> how many native speakers understand "Andean" without further context?
11:30:29  <Eddi|zuHause> native speakers of andean? :p
11:40:06  <Rubidium> frosch123: probably as many as European
11:40:47  <Rubidium> I for one wouldn't know what you would mean by European without a bit of context
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11:43:17  <Wolf01> oh, so it's how does it work
11:44:23  <Wolf01> i always thought you have to memorise them all
11:48:11  <Rubidium> Wolf01: except... grow -> grew, flow -> flowed, fly -> flew
11:48:44  <Pikka> show -> show :)
11:49:39  <frosch123> pikka -> pokka -> pukka
11:49:41  <Pikka> yes
11:49:54  <Rubidium> Wolf01: apply it to slew ;)
11:50:54  <Wolf01> oh, that one, i remember that one
11:51:07  <Pikka> good old strong verbs
11:53:05  <Rubidium> and for fun... you also need to know the context
11:53:27  <Rubidium> relay -> relaid -> relaid *or* relay -> relayed -> relayed (depending on the meaning of the word)
11:54:12  <Rubidium> also, your grammar proportion doesn't work on draw - drew - drawn
11:54:25  <SpComb> or relayd(8)
11:54:33  <Rubidium> ;)
11:54:48  <Eddi|zuHause> the most misleading is get vs. forget
11:55:22  <frosch123> @seen lordaro
11:55:22  <DorpsGek> frosch123: lordaro was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 2 days, 13 hours, 18 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <LordAro> it's been a while
11:55:56  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27430 /branches/1.5 (5 files in 3 dirs) (2015-11-01 12:55:45 +0100 )
11:55:57  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.5] -Backport from trunk:
11:55:58  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: [Makefile] Game script directory and compat*.nut were never installed on *nix (r27399)
11:55:59  <Eddi|zuHause> that's a cool "last words" :p
11:56:00  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: There are two different availability conditions for fdatasync in the manpage. Use them both, since at least on some MinGW versions one is not enough (r27389)
11:56:01  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: win32 sound driver failed to report errors (r27383)
11:56:02  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: (...)
11:56:30  <Wolf01> eh.. and "go", i still have troubles for the right past tense to use
11:56:53  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: what's so misleading about (for)get, (for)got, (for)got(ten)?
11:57:20  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: the "ten" part
11:58:08  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: because you're tempted to rule it as "(for)gotten", which is AE
11:59:28  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27431 /branches/1.5 (8 files in 4 dirs) (2015-11-01 12:59:17 +0100 )
11:59:29  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.5] -Backport from trunk:
11:59:30  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Consider text and icon sizes when drawing the client list [FS#6265] (r27421)
11:59:31  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: GrowTownAtRoad sometimes returned false, even when a house was built [FS#6362] (r27420)
11:59:32  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: CmdSellRailWagon did not revert all actions properly when no orderlist could be allocated [FS#6369] (r27419)
11:59:33  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: (...)
12:00:49  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: if it helps you, there's a much much longer list of "strong" verbs in german :p
12:01:11  <Eddi|zuHause> (and a fairly short one of truly irregular)
12:01:18  <Wolf01> no thanks, i already have enough trying to speak italian correctly
12:03:23  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27432 /branches/1.5 (13 files in 2 dirs) (2015-11-01 13:03:13 +0100 )
12:03:24  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.5] -Backport from trunk:
12:03:25  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: "forget > verb (forgets, forgetting, forgot; past participle forgotten or chiefly US forgot)" (Oxford Dictionary), which seems to imply that forgotten is BE and forgot is AE
12:03:26  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: When selecting a refit cargo for orders, do not check whether the vehicle is in a depot or station, and do not ask whether the vehicle currently allows station-refitting. Also hide the refit cost for orders, it is not predictable (r27428)
12:03:27  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Use the NewGRF railtype sorting order in the infrastructure window (r27427)
12:03:28  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Crash when switching to or taking over companies, when an order window of a vehicle of the new company was opened. Now close those windows [FS#5842] (r27425)
12:03:29  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: (...)
12:03:50  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yes, but "gotten" is AE, vs. "got" BE
12:07:33  <Rubidium> my Oxford dictionary claims that the main "spelling" is Brittish, with variants in other spellings noted. That would imply that, according to Oxford forgotten is BE and forgot is AE
12:08:42  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: nothing is worse than the german spelling of "Nische"
12:09:47  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27433 /branches/1.5 (7 files in 4 dirs) (2015-11-01 13:09:41 +0100 )
12:09:48  <DorpsGek> [1.5] -Update: Documentation
12:11:57  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27434 /tags/1.5.3-RC1 (3 files in 3 dirs) (2015-11-01 13:11:51 +0100 )
12:11:58  <DorpsGek> -Release: 1.5.3-RC1
12:12:28  <Rubidium> hooray
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12:32:25  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: is that part of the spelling reform?
12:32:42  <frosch123> no, they forgot it
12:32:55  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: because i would have spelled it "Niche" (from french)
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12:34:08  <frosch123> i would have expected that it is spelled "Niesche" since 1996
12:34:22  <Eddi|zuHause> but this is definitely territory where my spelling heuristic fails
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13:01:35  <frosch123> @topic set 1 1.5.3-RC1, 1.5.2
13:01:35  *** DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.5.3-RC1, 1.5.2 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | Logs: @logs | if this channel is really spammy
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15:36:12  <drac_boy> anyone from uk here atm?
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15:44:16  <drac_boy> hi juzz or is that juzza? heh :)
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16:17:28  <LadyHawk> < uk, can't exctly say im here tho, idling around =)
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16:19:16  <drac_boy> heh, not havig a grand time online myself so kinda was just wondering if uk even had any 1-car or 2-car emu during the 1940-1970's period roughly? :)
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16:28:16  <LadyHawk> ahhh can't help you there sorry.. only moved over there 11 years ago
16:28:24  <LadyHawk> google will know =)
16:29:53  <drac_boy> yeah its ok, was just curious about modelling in general .. I'll keep checking some more websites later .. maybe after I eat :)
16:30:20  <drac_boy> might find something from SR if I recall right that they had a rather early 3rd rail system
16:30:29  <LadyHawk> hehe, good luck with your digging
16:30:31  <drac_boy> hope you having fun not being too lazy btw :P
16:30:34  <drac_boy> heh ty
16:30:41  <LadyHawk> im having fun being lazy
16:30:43  <LadyHawk> :D
16:30:47  <drac_boy> silly lady :p
16:30:53  <drac_boy> anyway bye for till next time? ;)
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16:32:33  <Alberth> done playing with the mines? :)
16:35:07  <Eddi|zuHause> minesweeper? :p
16:36:16  <Alberth> massive transport of coal :)
16:36:32  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i know :p
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16:58:13  <Alberth> o/
17:03:20  <andythenorth> o/
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18:07:17  <Wolf01> reboot
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18:16:37  <Alberth> it worked :)
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18:37:03  <andythenorth> hmm
18:37:12  <andythenorth> I ask for forum suggestions, and for once there are none :P
18:37:17  <andythenorth> how rare
18:39:00  <Alberth> perhaps wrong forum? :p
18:44:36  <andythenorth> possibly :P
18:45:33  <frosch123> maybe they got too excited about the release :p
18:48:10  <andythenorth> :)
18:50:32  * andythenorth wonders if GS can manipulate town rating
18:50:40  <andythenorth> or otherwise prevent building
18:51:15  <andythenorth> got an idea for a ‘corruption’ GS
18:51:23  <Alberth> considering the explosion of city builder scripts, my guess is yes
18:51:34  <andythenorth> towns have random, highly variable mafia / bribe requirements
18:51:50  <andythenorth> and also there is a national government that randomly clamps down on corruption
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18:52:15  <frosch123> andythenorth: gs can remove company property, as long as there is no vehicle ni the way
18:52:15  <andythenorth> is Monopoly (board game) played outside of English-speaking countries?
18:52:30  <frosch123> you can bulldoze rails, roads and canals
18:52:37  <Alberth> let me guess, both sides think my company is a target?  :)
18:52:42  <Alberth> andythenorth: yes
18:53:02  <andythenorth> there is a property tax card in the chance cards in monopoly
18:53:05  <frosch123> andythenorth: it's the most famous terribly-designed board game, yes
18:53:05  <andythenorth> which can wipe you out
18:53:09  <andythenorth> it’s bad yes
18:53:22  <andythenorth> allegedly designed to promote socialism, unless that’s an urban myth
18:53:37  <frosch123> everyone who tries to explain good and bad gameplay, uses monopoly as a bad example :)
18:53:59  <Alberth> hmm, I was too young to notice such things :p
18:54:34  <andythenorth> when you connect a town you get a GS dialogue, with options for bribes
18:54:51  <andythenorth> some towns want more than others
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18:56:15  <andythenorth> you can choose to be ethical or not
18:56:29  <andythenorth> and every so often a corruption investigation might be triggered
18:56:45  <andythenorth> you lose a lot of money or infrastructure if you’re found to be highly corrupt
18:59:50  <Alberth> wouldn't work for me, but ymmv
19:02:40  <andythenorth> doesn’t work for me either
19:02:53  <andythenorth> idea came about because I was thinking of post-colonial FIRS economy
19:03:55  <frosch123> do a pre-colonial gs :p
19:04:43  <frosch123> the map is empty except for some start items, and the gs adds towns and industries in the directions you expand
19:05:32  <andythenorth> I want to do that
19:05:45  <andythenorth> “Conquer the West” or something
19:06:16  <andythenorth> I have too many unfinished newgrfs right now, and I don’t want to do Squirrel on my own :P
19:06:34  <frosch123> so do a firewater economy
19:06:52  <frosch123> farms don't give you anything, until you delivered them with firewater once
19:07:16  <frosch123> single-delivery supplies
19:07:17  <andythenorth> what game is that from? o_O
19:07:46  <frosch123> no idea, just imagine the farm has always been there, but they do not care about your weird trains
19:08:07  <frosch123> at start only harbors supply cargo
19:08:29  <frosch123> one of them is firewater (1 item per month or something silly)
19:08:46  <frosch123> you have to deliver that to some industry, which only then starts production
19:09:00  <frosch123> possibly you do not even see the production potential in advance
19:09:24  <frosch123> it adds some weird micromanagement to expansion, maybe it sucks, maybe it is cool
19:09:34  <frosch123> may need disabling of aircraft though
19:09:37  <frosch123> else it is pointless
19:11:41  <frosch123> maybe you find a better name than "firewater" though :p
19:11:51  <planetmaker> liquid fire :P
19:11:56  <frosch123> maybe "harvesting licence"?
19:15:00  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> allegedly designed to promote socialism, unless that’s an urban myth <-- well, that was some earlier version before it got popular and unbalanced
19:19:37  <andythenorth> frosch123: is that what the ‘workers industries’ grf does? o_O
19:19:40  * andythenorth hasn’t played it
19:20:03  <frosch123> me neither
19:20:16  <frosch123> but i don't think so
19:20:33  <frosch123> all grfs i have seen require constant supply of supplies
19:20:37  <Alberth> it makes pax work for their existence, afaik
19:20:47  <frosch123> in this case you have an extremly rare resource, which you only need to supply once though
19:21:18  <frosch123> if one harbour supplies 12 units per year
19:21:23  <Alberth> like uranium bars, produced once every 10-15 years :p
19:21:48  <frosch123> you can micromanage some vehicle with 1 capacity to activate 12 industries in that year
19:22:38  <frosch123> there are no real means to stockpile such cargo, unless you use the 100% cheat
19:23:08  <frosch123> but if you deliver all to one industry, they are all gone, and you cannot activate any new industries
19:24:25  <frosch123> but, meh, may also be just annoying :p
19:24:37  <frosch123> bbl
19:27:34  * andythenorth files it away as an idea
19:27:58  <andythenorth> I’m going to try an economy where ~half the industry types aren’t built at map gen
19:28:07  <Eddi|zuHause> you don't have an order "load only 1 piece of cargo", though
19:28:17  <andythenorth> so you have to earn money on exports, then build them yourself
19:28:53  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't i suggest that years ago for a "development country" economy?
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20:11:31  <andythenorth> maybe
20:11:39  <andythenorth> could be time to do it
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20:21:52  <Terkhen> good night
20:22:23  <Alberth> good night Terkhen
20:22:27  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: can you remember any more ideas? o_O
20:22:30  <andythenorth> bye Terkhen
20:22:46  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, unless you give clues to it :p
20:22:53  <Alberth> lol
20:24:04  <Eddi|zuHause> no, really, most of my memories are tied to a specific context, and thus are almost impossible to access from outside that context.
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20:26:16  <andythenorth> it possibly came up when I was designing Heart of Darkness?
20:26:26  <andythenorth> (which I’m now replacing, no longer happy about it)
20:29:20  <Eddi|zuHause> why replace it, if you can just make a new one?
20:29:37  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe other people are more happy about your stuff than you are? :p
20:33:51  <Alberth> that's nothing new :p
20:34:12  <Alberth> gn
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20:40:38  <andythenorth> in this case I don’t want to use the name anymore
20:41:30  <andythenorth> I have read a lot of Conrad, but I have also understood, that for some Africans, what he writes is unquestionably racist and offensive
20:41:34  <Eddi|zuHause> then call it "colonial"?
20:42:19  <andythenorth> something like that yes
20:42:42  <andythenorth> it’s also a bit unsatisfactory to play, it’s a few more industries & cargos than ‘basic’
20:43:01  <andythenorth> but not enough to be ‘complex'
20:43:19  <Eddi|zuHause> that i cannot judge
20:43:23  <andythenorth> the mechanic of ‘all cargo goes to ports’ gets old fast
20:43:38  <andythenorth> although it did cause ports to get added to FIRS, which has been beneficial
20:47:23  * andythenorth also enjoyed this video
20:47:29  <andythenorth> NSFW, probably
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21:06:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i have difficulty understanding her
21:07:04  <frosch123> it gets better after 10 minutes
21:07:11  <frosch123> or i got used to the voice and noise
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21:17:50  * andythenorth bed
21:17:51  <andythenorth> bye
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22:11:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still not quite sure what her point was, except for "don't give a man a fish, teach him how to fish"
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22:12:08  <planetmaker> g'night
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23:53:14  <Wolf01> 'night
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