Log for #openttd on 8th January 2016:
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09:12:15  <Wolf01> o/
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10:12:00  <Kanet2> Whee! Testing
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10:38:14  <Eddi|zuHause> bwÀh... can't launch a kerbal in the command seat :/
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11:26:49  <Taede> launch whilst a kerbal is in command seat, or launch the kerbal that is in the command seat?
11:40:59  <Eddi|zuHause> launch as in go to launchpad with a kerbal in the seat
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12:29:18  <Eddi|zuHause> ha i found a new mode of transportation...
12:29:26  <Wolf01> catapult?
12:29:35  <Eddi|zuHause> rolling around with my rocket on minimus via gyro thingies :p
12:30:37  <Eddi|zuHause> not very efficient though, as you can't go very fast :p
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12:38:39  <Eddi|zuHause> also, steering is a bitch :p
12:53:13  <Wolf01> uh, this is bad
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13:05:30  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
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13:22:05  <V453000> fuck trains, use horses
13:22:45  <Wolf01> even the fastest horse can't reach the speed of 88mph!
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13:36:26  <V453000> slugs can, why could not a horse?
13:36:39  <V453000> ^ stronk argument
13:39:50  <Wolf01> great scott!
13:41:10  <Wolf01> today i need to murder someone... which one is better, borderlands or skyrim?
13:42:57  <V453000> I didnt play skyrim but I loved the hell out of borderlands and borderlands 2
13:43:47  <V453000> I personally prefer borderlands 2 a lot, it has a lot more fun and INSANE amount of talking that the characters do ... most of which are really fun
13:44:57  <Wolf01> yes, the 2 is the best one so far, the pre-sequel is good to know what happened before but it's not so good as the 2 was
13:47:01  <V453000> I honestly find the pre-sequel very horrible
13:47:11  <V453000> 1. in the beginning it is boring for a LONG time
13:47:38  <V453000> 2. characters are weird, I did not get the feel with any of them, in BL2 I only disliked zero somewhat
13:48:03  <V453000> 3. the humor is just going too repetitive, constant bullying of claptraps for not that much of a reason, ...
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13:48:43  <V453000> there was probably something else but yeah
13:49:28  <V453000> when I bought the pre-sequel, I finished the main story and since there was literally nothing else to do, I just went to play borderlands 2, and had a great time doing so
13:50:17  <V453000> the only complaint I would have about both of them is how hard it is to actually obtain legendary gear
13:50:19  <Wolf01> i'm still searching for those damned vault signs all around
13:50:55  <V453000> even in the last playthrough of BL2, getting legendaries is wtf hard ... and then you discover that you just need to grind crater of badassitude tokens, buy a double penetrating hornet and not give a fuck
13:52:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i think my plan for an assembly rover might be getting somewhere...
13:52:41  <Wolf01> lol, honestly i'm right there grinding :D
13:53:03  <Eddi|zuHause> if the terrain is not too uneven
13:55:42  <Eddi|zuHause> now, for getting all the parts to the mun, however...
13:56:51  <V453000> haha Wolf01
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14:27:22  <argoneus> Wolf01: borderlands 2 is shit
14:27:27  <argoneus> same with 1
14:27:33  <argoneus> it's super repetitive
14:27:40  <argoneus> it's fine if you like "fetch 10 shit"
14:27:42  <argoneus> I don't
14:28:11  <Wolf01> so are almost all other games
14:28:36  <frosch123> what? transport coal from A to B! there is nothing repetitive about that
14:30:04  <argoneus> skyrim at least has some open world content
14:30:14  <argoneus> besides killing 10 things for this one funny pop reference parody guy
14:30:29  <argoneus> it also has mods
14:31:09  <frosch123> isn't "open world" and "content" a contradiction?
14:31:11  <argoneus> Wolf01: most games are shit too
14:31:20  <argoneus> look on steam how often a new game is released
14:31:57  <argoneus> frosch123: what do you mean contradiction?
14:32:05  <argoneus> in skyrim you can do things inbetween questing
14:32:08  <argoneus> in borderlands hardly
14:32:15  <frosch123> "open world" means "make your own content in our sandbox", doesn't it?
14:32:30  <argoneus> "make your own content in our sandbox" is called "sandbox"
14:32:50  <frosch123> and "open world" is not "sandbox"? :p
14:33:19  <argoneus> depends?
14:33:41  <Wolf01> skyrim at the point i am it's pretty boring, i have just a bunch of repetitive missions like "kill that bear in the cave" or "there's an evil awakened in the crypt under my bedroom"
14:33:43  <frosch123> true, better make a repesentative analysis of at least 90% of released games :)
14:33:55  <argoneus> Wolf01: then you won't like borderlands
14:34:09  <argoneus> the whole game is like that
14:34:28  <Wolf01> i played all the 3 borderlands and enjoyed them
14:34:36  <argoneus> have you finished them?
14:34:41  <Wolf01> all of them
14:34:55  <Wolf01> and almost all the side quests too
14:35:01  <argoneus> shrug
14:35:16  <argoneus> I can't be bothered when I keep doing the same thing without giving it any thought
14:35:32  <argoneus> borderlands felt like "drive here, kill this funny meme boss which is a reference to some funny thing"
14:35:35  <argoneus> repeat
14:35:51  <Wolf01> and 3 times with some characters because i wanted to get them to the higher difficulty level
14:36:31  <argoneus> then again I mostly play multiplayer games only these days
14:36:36  <argoneus> at least every game is different
14:37:08  <argoneus> Wolf01: have you played that.. whatitsface
14:37:10  <argoneus> the steampunk stealth game
14:37:18  <argoneus> dishonored
14:37:39  <Wolf01> online games aren't repetitive, every time you find another 12 years old who could be your dad
14:37:51  <argoneus> I don't play call of duty so I wouldn't know
14:37:53  <Wolf01> no, i didn't play that
14:37:53  <argoneus> or mobas
14:38:05  <argoneus> dishonored is fun
14:40:20  <Wolf01> also borderlands is, it's just a different thing, it's like those charlie hebdo's comics, i don't even find them fun, but i find fun the joan cornellà comics
14:40:34  <argoneus> Wolf01: did you play BL alone or coop?
14:40:39  <Wolf01> both
14:40:43  <argoneus> hmm
14:40:43  <V453000> actually many of the missions in borderlands have a lot of plot twists or funny reveals, I dont see why would you complain about the missions there ... :D
14:41:00  <V453000> coop borderlands is one of the best experiences in gaming I ever had
14:41:06  <V453000> solo is still nice for me personally
14:41:12  <argoneus> V453000: "plot twist"?
14:41:16  <V453000> yes
14:41:22  <argoneus> I don't remember any from playing halfway through BL2
14:41:27  <argoneus> actually, I don't even remember there being a story
14:41:29  <argoneus> rip
14:41:29  <V453000> "go do shit" and in the middle of the mission it turns on its head completely
14:41:39  <argoneus> I know there was a story
14:41:42  <V453000> there is a story and it is very good actually
14:41:45  <argoneus> but I can't remember it for the life of me
14:41:49  <V453000> side missions are also a huge source of fun
14:42:07  <argoneus> I guess singleplayer RPGs just aren't my gener
14:42:09  <argoneus> genre*
14:42:30  <Wolf01> so why do you like skyrim?
14:43:15  <V453000> dragonz mate
14:43:16  <V453000> XD
14:43:17  <Wolf01> which has the most deep story of "side with one faction or the other and kill a dragon"?
14:43:25  <argoneus> as a note
14:43:28  <argoneus> I never finished the skyrim story
14:43:33  <argoneus> it didn't feel interesting
14:43:40  <argoneus> I was mostly fooling around doing dark brotherhood stuff and shit
14:43:56  <argoneus> or doing stealth playthroughs
14:44:29  <argoneus> I didn't even play it for more than 20 hours keep in mind
14:44:32  <argoneus> but it was ok
14:44:48  <argoneus> as I said, singleplayer RPGs aren't my thing :P
14:45:04  <argoneus> too tired of ancient evil awakens everywhere
14:45:05  <V453000> judging huge games like skyrim or borderlands after you played 20 games is not very smart
14:45:33  <argoneus> if I thought it had a lot more to offer I wouldn't have stopped
14:45:41  <V453000> 20hours*
14:45:43  <argoneus> I actually finished fallout 3 and liked it a lot
14:45:43  <Wolf01> the only thing i didn't finish in skyrim was one of the side quests on the dragonborn dlc, because a bug made it stuck to a step which is unrecoverable also with the console (unless i do /resetquests)
14:45:46  <argoneus> then I played fallout new vegas
14:45:48  <argoneus> and quit after an hour
14:45:57  <argoneus> "oh it's the same game but there's a different ancient evil"
14:45:57  <V453000> thought XD so you basically predict how much the game has in it
14:46:02  <V453000> excellent
14:46:16  <argoneus> well
14:46:23  <argoneus> there's also the part of RPGs I don't like at all
14:46:30  <argoneus> "sorry you haven't grinded enough to kill this guy"
14:46:41  <argoneus> "your weapon's bullets don't do damage because of some arbitrary number to make the game feel worthwhile"
14:46:47  <argoneus> lel
14:47:07  <argoneus> I like games where progress = your skill level
14:47:18  <argoneus> not progress = some number that increases periodically
14:47:24  <argoneus> devil may cry was fun
14:47:59  <V453000> in borderlands you can usually kill higher level enemies, it is just a bit harder, ergo your skill level could come in handy, I do not see a big problem there :)
14:48:14  <argoneus> not really
14:48:18  <V453000> because of course the levels are just arbitrary numbers, you still shoot shit
14:48:22  <V453000> yes really
14:48:26  <argoneus> all you can do is get the right weapon for their armor/health type
14:48:31  <argoneus> and then run around and shoot them without them hitting you
14:49:00  <Wolf01> isn't it in all games?
14:49:05  <V453000> ok not worth arguing
14:49:11  <V453000> just have it your way
14:49:19  <Wolf01> i'm doing that in factorio too... running around avoiding trains
14:49:20  <argoneus> I'm not sure if you're trying to convince me that borderlands has a deep combat system
14:49:43  <argoneus> it's weapons + grenades + special abilities iirc
14:50:19  <Wolf01> we are not trying to convince you that borderlands is the best game ever, we started like "we played all the three ones and the 2 is our favourite"
14:50:58  <argoneus> well
14:51:05  <argoneus> it sounded like "you can't judge this huge game after 20 hours"
14:52:13  <V453000> so you think that playing it for 20 hours is enough to know how the mechanics work all in all?
14:52:15  <Wolf01> the same thing i was told when i played the diablo 3 demo, with locked difficulty to normal... i didn't even die once
14:52:30  <V453000> because to me it sounds like you just tried your approach, failed, so you got bored and stopped playing
14:52:30  <Wolf01> it was too easy for me
14:53:05  <argoneus> V453000: what do you mean
14:53:08  <V453000> RPG games in general, like borderlands, D3 or whatever usually do offer various ways of combat/builds/solutions, so playing for 20 hours and discovering them all is highly unlikely
14:53:12  <argoneus> the weakness of every enemy in the game was blatantly obvious
14:53:27  <argoneus> and if my character's build is weak against another I just need to compensate with something else
14:53:32  <argoneus> it's not difficult at all
14:53:38  <V453000> im done
14:53:53  <V453000> sorry this is not worth my nerves
14:54:00  <argoneus> actually
14:54:05  <argoneus> I enjoyed divinity original sin a lot
14:54:07  <V453000> everything is obvious to you except you do not have a clue
14:54:10  <argoneus> in that game you actually have to think
14:54:13  <Wolf01> then try to kill voracidous or other huge bosses for the booty, i can't even kill one of them on normal difficulty while being 10 levels more than it
14:54:14  <argoneus> to win fights
14:54:29  <argoneus> games like baldur's gate in general feel rewarding
14:54:36  <argoneus> every fight is unique
14:54:36  <V453000> voracidous is just wtf.
14:54:47  <Wolf01> all of them are wtf
14:55:00  <V453000> yeah well, I managed to kill terra quite solidly
14:55:09  <V453000> pete, sometimes
14:55:11  <V453000> but the rest ...
14:55:29  <Wolf01> all the other plot bosses are pussies, i agree with that
14:55:39  <V453000> everything with grog nozzle gunzerker though ... which is kind of hacky and lame
14:56:06  <V453000> depends how you play, if you play all side missions then I agree that the game is quite easy, to the point where I would really like some difficulty settings to override that
14:56:16  <V453000> but if you go straight in without any side missions then shit is pretty tough
14:57:13  <V453000> again to the point where the enemies can start to be so high level that it simply starts being almost impossible .... where admittedly the arbitrary number of levels is kind of annoying, forcing you to do other missions than you want
14:57:30  <V453000> the difficulty/xp system is one of the weaker parts of the game, definitely
14:57:42  <argoneus> have you guys played dark souls
14:57:42  <Wolf01> but there is nothing more funny of going to kick a boss in the ass with a shotgun which shots swords which explodes in more swords... with "the bee" shield too
14:58:05  <argoneus> that was probably the most fun RPG I've played
14:58:11  <V453000> yeah ... I pesonally hate the bee a lot, but eh :) swordsplosion is fun but the double penetrating hornet just wrecks shit
14:58:12  <Wolf01> no, i usually play games to relax, not to punch holes in the monitors
14:58:23  <argoneus> why would you be angry
14:58:28  <argoneus> every death in dark souls is literally only your fault
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14:58:39  <argoneus> you can beat the game on level 1
14:58:48  <argoneus> RPG done right))
14:59:09  <Wolf01> i already fail too much in rl, i expect some satisfaction in games
14:59:26  <Wolf01> if i want to fail i just talk to my dad
14:59:31  <V453000> yeah, absence of levels / less importance = good game. It is not our problem you do not like it :) but it does not make it objectively bad/good
14:59:39  <argoneus> it's not less importance
14:59:42  <argoneus> it just means you will die in one hit
14:59:48  <argoneus> and do jack shit for damage
14:59:56  <V453000> -> difference is?
15:00:16  <argoneus> does borderlands have no hitscan?
15:00:20  <argoneus> can you avoid every single attack if you want to?
15:00:37  <Wolf01> if i want to die in one hit and do a shitload of damage i'll go to play quake 3 with instagib enabled and open maps with no covers
15:00:46  <frosch123> sounds easy, if you only need to "want" it :p
15:00:49  <V453000> not in the way you want, but that is not entirely relevant
15:00:56  <V453000> as frosch says
15:01:18  <argoneus> in dark souls you are supposed to level normally and even grind to have an easier time with some of the bosses
15:01:25  <argoneus> but a decent player can solo the game on level 1 with a stick
15:01:30  <argoneus> that makes it a good rpg imo
15:01:48  <Wolf01> it works on skyrim/fallout too
15:01:55  <argoneus> man
15:01:59  <argoneus> I wish skyrim combat wasn't shit
15:02:03  <argoneus> some mods make it bearable
15:02:06  <argoneus> but the vanilla combat is soo bad :(
15:02:07  <argoneus> melee that is
15:02:09  <Wolf01> in borderlands a bit less, because of the health regen
15:02:34  <Wolf01> eh, i also wanted the mount&blade combat in skyrim
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15:05:18  <V453000> m&b was a fucking massacre XD
15:05:29  <V453000> I didnt remain entertained by it for long, but it was quite interesting
15:05:37  <argoneus> damn
15:05:41  <argoneus> I played m&b for hundreds of hours
15:05:47  <argoneus> V453000 why can't you be more like me
15:06:02  <V453000> fuck you thats why? XD
15:06:06  <argoneus> :(
15:06:14  <argoneus> m&b is also the kind of game I like
15:06:20  <argoneus> it's a "RPG" in the sense you have levels
15:06:25  <argoneus> but they don't mean much if you are good at the game
15:06:27  <Wolf01> i'm trying to play the viking conquest campaign, but i'm struggling to advance
15:06:37  <argoneus> Wolf01: what diff settings do you play on?
15:06:54  <Wolf01> easy, i bet
15:07:52  <Wolf01> i'm not so good at it, that's my problem
15:08:16  <Wolf01> i can't get the right time of attacking and blocking
15:08:36  <Wolf01> and when i have more than 1 enemy attacking me, i'm dead
15:08:44  <argoneus> in m&b you can't really fight 1vX where X>1
15:09:01  <argoneus> they would have to sync their attacks perfectly so you can block at the same time
15:09:09  <argoneus> and then attack
15:09:14  <argoneus> usually you can only block and hope someone helps you :(
15:10:00  <Wolf01> or get a horse and hope it don't die while you are poking them with a pike from above
15:10:44  <argoneus> do you run any mods?
15:10:47  <Wolf01> no
15:10:57  <argoneus> most mods have spear bracing built in
15:11:02  <argoneus> charging someone with a horse has never been so scary
15:11:13  <argoneus> it's like couched lance but stationary
15:11:15  <argoneus> ouch
15:12:42  <V453000> idk I often went against like 100 enemies v 1, cause my squads were generally ultra bad ... riding around them on a horse and killing them one by one with a mace felt ok XD just lengthy
15:13:00  <Wolf01> that's what i usually do
15:13:23  <Wolf01> but i don't have enough money for a horse right now
15:13:29  <V453000> XD
15:13:31  <V453000> deep shit then
15:13:35  <argoneus> don't you start with one?
15:13:36  <argoneus> in vanilla
15:13:51  <argoneus> oh wait you're doing the viking thing
15:13:52  <Wolf01> also vikings seem to not like horses
15:13:58  <argoneus> I didn't buy any of the dlcs because what's the point
15:13:58  <V453000> XD
15:14:35  <V453000> yeah not like 90% of modern games have actual content spread to 666 DLCs
15:15:07  <V453000> ... including borderlands :>
15:15:27  <argoneus> have you even played warband?
15:15:42  <argoneus> there's so many total conversion mods any paid DLC loses its point
15:15:45  <Wolf01> the closest thing to a horse i have is the dog... because they used the skeleton of a horse for the movements and it's funny to see it moving, but also uncomfortable seeing it bending the legs in the wrong way
15:16:02  <argoneus> there's a mod that makes the game into lord of the rings pretty much
15:16:07  <argoneus> why would I pay 15 euro for vikings
15:16:33  <V453000> perhaps there are new mechanics etc? My guess, I did not play it, nor warband
15:16:33  <Wolf01> it's historically accurate
15:16:58  <Wolf01> warband has multiplayer if you want
15:17:12  <argoneus> mods bring new mechanics too
15:17:15  <Wolf01> but the base game is the same as the first one
15:17:18  <argoneus> there's a mod that makes battles look like total war
15:17:23  <argoneus> you click your units and move them to places
15:17:27  <argoneus> and it's free :P
15:17:42  <argoneus> python is one hell of a drug
15:18:05  <Wolf01> it's just the army management, you can use it from the viking conquest dlc too
15:18:48  <argoneus> no
15:18:51  <argoneus> I know you mean the backspace thing
15:18:59  <argoneus> but this literally split your army into squads
15:19:06  <argoneus> and you had the clickable bars from total war
15:19:22  <argoneus> and you could pre-position them before a battle
15:19:31  <argoneus> and put them in formations
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15:23:13  <Wolf01> too bad i only have 70 men (and they cost really much, while being almost all young warriors and burglars)
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15:27:34  <Wolf01> and i need 2 more ships too :(
15:27:51  <Wolf01> (no money for them... if i can't even afford a horse)
15:29:36  <M-E> A horse! a horse! my kingdom for a horse!
15:30:03  <Wolf01> i don't have a kingdom too :(
15:31:15  <argoneus> :(
15:31:29  <Wolf01> after boarding my ship (it wasn't even mine) vikings left me on a beach with my ass up and a stick in it... luckily some fishermen found me
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15:50:06  <Alberth> hi hi
15:51:22  <Wolf01> o/
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18:45:46  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27490 trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt (2016-01-08 19:45:37 +0100 )
18:45:47  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:48  <DorpsGek> chinese (simplified): 1 change by siu238X
18:54:57  <andythenorth> o/
18:55:04  <Wolf01> o/
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18:56:36  <andythenorth> bbl
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19:01:11  <Terkhen> hello
19:01:38  <Alberth> hi hi
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19:18:35  <Alberth> o/
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22:18:49  <m1cr0man> Does anyone use the finescale, standard guage and 3rd rail track GRF?
22:19:06  <m1cr0man> I want to know why the electric tracks are so much more expensive than usual
22:19:57  <Supercheese> that's not Pikka's finescale track grf, is it?
22:20:03  <m1cr0man> sure is
22:20:11  <Supercheese> ah
22:20:17  <m1cr0man> is there an alternative?
22:20:21  <m1cr0man> Im using UKRS2 see
22:20:26  <Supercheese> no that's an excellent grf
22:20:36  <Supercheese> what's the problem exactly?
22:20:45  <m1cr0man> Its 7 grand to build 1 tile of track
22:21:21  <m1cr0man> You build like 100 units of track and all of a sudden you wasted your money not building an airfield
22:21:35  <m1cr0man> Does the running costs parameter in the game settings effect grfs?
22:21:36  <Supercheese> have you changed any bases costs via newgrf?
22:21:41  <m1cr0man> no
22:21:46  <m1cr0man> i dont even know how
22:23:18  <m1cr0man> is it normal for me to be missing the maglev and monorail tracks too?
22:23:49  <Supercheese> Yes, when using UKRS there are no monorails or maglevs
22:24:03  <m1cr0man> Ok good, not something I broke :P
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22:24:39  <Supercheese> well, are all your tracks expensive? or just one type?
22:24:48  <Eddi|zuHause> m1cr0man: if you mix multiple sets that modify the same thing, the last one may override settings of the previous one
22:25:05  <m1cr0man> oh im not sure actually supercheese, ill check now
22:25:07  <Eddi|zuHause> m1cr0man: try changing the order, and see what happens
22:25:11  <m1cr0man> eddi, ok ill move it to the bottom yeah?
22:26:02  <m1cr0man> O_O
22:26:07  <m1cr0man> that may have fixed it Eddi|zuHause
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22:26:46  <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably not "fixed", just broken in a less obvious way :p
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22:27:08  <m1cr0man> hm
22:27:09  <m1cr0man> well
22:27:13  <m1cr0man> I saved my old load order
22:27:16  <m1cr0man> loaded up the world
22:27:37  <m1cr0man> 1 track now costs 4,830 instead of ~600 like it does when its at the bottom
22:28:15  <Supercheese> it seems one of the other grfs may be influencing base costs
22:28:27  <m1cr0man> yep. checking which one now
22:28:42  <Eddi|zuHause> they are probably both setting base costs
22:28:57  <Eddi|zuHause> (otherwise changing order would not change anything)
22:29:22  <Sylf> Japan set 2 had pretty expensive track, I think
22:29:31  <Sylf> tracks*
22:29:45  <m1cr0man> interesting - its the vactrain set
22:30:52  <m1cr0man> no, wait
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22:34:26  <m1cr0man> Selected mod is causing the problem: I seem to have 2 versions of the vactrain mod, with the same version, but the GRF ID is different by 1 value (last digit 2->1), could this be a sort of hack or attempt to put a game breaker on bananas?
22:36:25  <m1cr0man> nope! sorry, its the other one causing it
22:36:28  <m1cr0man> this is so confusing
22:39:27  <m1cr0man> is a clone of the perevious one, grf IDs 444A5902 (overpriced) and 444A5901 (normal)
22:41:52  <m1cr0man> In other news, is there an AI that supports these rail types?
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22:59:46  <Eddi|zuHause> depends on what kind of "support" you are after. some AIs might use it, but i don't think there is one specifically designed for this.
23:06:08  <m1cr0man> thats grand
23:06:24  <m1cr0man> nocab seemed to be sticking to buses but it may have been setup wrong
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23:15:02  <Eddi|zuHause> there are some AIs that only specialize on one vehicle type
23:15:15  <Eddi|zuHause> typically road vehicles are easier to set up
23:15:35  <Supercheese> they do require the least capital investment
23:15:36  <Eddi|zuHause> you don't need complicated signal logic, and you can fit them in tighter spaces
23:16:21  <Eddi|zuHause> finding space for the tracks is one of the hardest parts of AIs
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23:36:44  <Wolf01> 'night
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