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00:05:07 <supermop> jo = ja? 00:17:26 <planetmaker> yes. It's a bit slang / dialect 00:20:06 <supermop> again on this server, all of the other players lines are point to point, one train per track, with double 45 and 90 degree turns 00:20:13 <supermop> and no signals 00:20:29 <supermop> i feel like i only ever play against AIs? 00:20:34 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:21:14 <sim-al2> Some people's building styles closely resemble the old AI... 00:22:58 <supermop> train acceleration is set to original?!? 00:23:10 *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@90.74.151.136] has quit [Quit: NoShlomo] 00:23:18 * sim-al2 dramatically takes off his glasses 00:23:32 <supermop> is this server for punishing people or something? 00:24:05 <supermop> first time ive ever seen pony running on a server, so i had to join 00:25:26 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:29:41 <supermop> its 2248 though so cities are so big hard to play anywhere, so just running hovercrafts on rivers 00:33:43 <supermop> also inflation is on? 00:33:52 <supermop> ?????? 00:34:30 <sim-al2> OpenTTD: Hard mode 00:35:18 <supermop> my hover craft broke down 00:35:29 <sim-al2> RIP 00:36:06 <sim-al2> I don't suppose you can buy company shares too? 00:36:14 <supermop> yep 00:36:18 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 00:36:22 <supermop> can't afford any though 00:36:25 <Samu> are you testing AIs? 00:36:31 <sim-al2> I think you've found the anti-server 00:36:44 <supermop> no but that server sure felt like it 00:37:41 <supermop> server list would be well served with a way to discover if a server is running with such inane settings before joining 00:38:01 <sim-al2> Might be a bit unwieldy though 00:38:10 <sim-al2> And more data to send 00:38:43 <supermop> also still really hard to find anyone running firs 2 instead of 1.4 00:40:37 <sim-al2> Yeah, I see one still running FIRS 1.3 00:41:32 <Samu> i'm testing cargodist on some AIs 00:42:10 <Samu> not all of them are readily for this setting, though they can manage staying afloat 00:42:37 <Samu> doesn't look they will die, but won't progress as fast as they use to 00:43:55 <supermop> ok this server is going to melt my computer 00:49:53 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 00:49:56 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 00:51:54 <supermop> how can anyone play on these 2048^2 maps 00:55:25 <Mazur> With a lot of time to waste? 00:57:04 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:59:43 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)] 01:02:33 <supermop> here is a 2048x64 map 01:15:49 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 01:38:05 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:40:25 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:47:22 *** Leanden [~oftc-webi@bcdc1e95.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd 01:47:31 <Leanden> Hopefully someone can help me 01:47:40 <Leanden> Ive code plenty of trains with livery refits no problem at all 01:47:47 <Leanden> but my Eurostar is causing me grief 01:48:00 <Leanden> for whatever reason 3 out of the 20 coaches will not change livery 01:48:27 <Leanden> 2 of them are item_BR373TBK and the other is item_BR373DMb 01:48:40 <Leanden> Full code available here: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74766&p=1170044#p1170044 01:53:39 *** Leanden [~oftc-webi@bcdc1e95.skybroadband.com] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:59:10 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:23:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6C12.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:25:38 *** Islacrusez [~m4rek@79-68-231-45.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:01:46 *** ToneKnee [~quassel@host86-182-68-29.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 04:08:15 *** ToneKnee_ [~quassel@host31-52-130-115.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:04:39 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 05:04:42 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 05:22:52 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 05:37:40 *** roidal [~roland@62-46-143-165.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 05:45:37 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-182-233.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:48:32 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-182-233.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 06:02:54 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 06:36:36 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: keoz] 07:00:28 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 07:13:00 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:17:25 *** sla_ro|master2 [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 07:23:00 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:23:14 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 07:34:38 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19270.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:46:22 *** DDR_ [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 07:46:22 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:57:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 08:11:59 <andythenorth> o/ 08:14:16 <Alberth> o/ 08:16:55 *** DDR_ [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:43:42 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 08:44:39 <_dp_> <sim-al2> 00:40:37> Yeah, I see one still running FIRS 1.3 <-- haha I know that server ^^ 08:45:10 <_dp_> Guess nobody felt like balancing it for newer versions 08:45:33 <_dp_> And I don't know firs myself 08:46:20 <_dp_> From what I heard ports completely break gameplay 08:49:16 <andythenorth> shouldnât be allowed 08:49:20 <andythenorth> delete it from bananas 08:49:20 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 09:05:09 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 09:22:17 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 09:27:12 *** Mutter [~Mutter@bcdc1e95.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd 09:27:34 <Mutter> Hello o/ 09:27:48 *** Mutter is now known as Leanden 09:27:59 <Gja> o/ Leanden 09:28:13 <Leanden> I need NML help :( 09:28:28 <Leanden> I coded my eurostar 373 on the BRTrains set 09:29:07 <Leanden> When i refit the livery the whole train changes as expected except for the buffet cars and the trailing motor which both stay in default livery 09:30:08 <Leanden> I am fairly sure the problem lies with the cargo_subtype switch, but i cant see any errors 09:30:44 <Leanden> Full code is on the BRTrains dev thread if anyone could take a look. 09:32:06 <Leanden> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74766&start=140#p1170044 09:40:32 *** Leanden [~Mutter@bcdc1e95.skybroadband.com] has quit [Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com] 09:40:48 *** Leanden [~Mutter@bcdc1e95.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd 09:41:16 *** Leanden [~Mutter@bcdc1e95.skybroadband.com] has quit [] 09:42:01 *** Leanden [~Mutter@bcdc1e95.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd 09:44:55 <Leanden> Is there a limit to how many switches in a single pnml document or somethig like that? 09:45:15 <Leanden> Or maybe to do with the train length as its 20 cars long? 09:54:28 *** Leanden [~Mutter@bcdc1e95.skybroadband.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:14 *** aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 09:58:25 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 10:03:05 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 10:08:55 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:16:11 <frosch123> moin mammals 10:21:09 <Alkel_U3> Hm, I can't find a language-compatible goal-less server with FIRS running on 1.6. Might as well start my own. 10:21:13 <Alkel_U3> morning 10:25:54 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:51:24 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:52:21 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:08:20 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:10:08 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has joined #openttd 11:18:36 *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@90.74.151.136] has joined #openttd 11:43:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 11:46:19 <andythenorth> hmm 11:46:23 <andythenorth> these trucks are all wrong 11:51:55 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:00:21 *** Leanden [~Mutter@82-132-236-26.dab.02.net] has joined #openttd 12:03:25 *** Leanden [~Mutter@82-132-236-26.dab.02.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:42 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: I'll be Bach] 12:14:17 *** sla_ro|master2 [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 12:14:36 <frosch123> yay, hail :/ 12:17:23 <andythenorth> :o 12:19:11 <frosch123> size increasing, i hope everyone ran away when the thunder started 12:23:26 <frosch123> some are easily 2cm diameter 12:31:31 *** Islacrusez [~m4rek@79-68-231-45.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 12:31:46 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-137-142.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:22 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-137-142.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:32:44 <planetmaker> autsch. That's tough 12:33:42 <planetmaker> Is it helpful when I say that we have nicest weather here? Sunshine, few clouds? But it's just much too humid... maybe thunderstorm coming later 12:34:07 <frosch123> oh, it had 25 degree and sunshine 30 minutes ago :p 12:34:13 <frosch123> likely again in 15 minutes 12:34:21 <frosch123> though, the temperature may take some time 12:39:06 <planetmaker> :) Hm, my thermometer is in the sun. It's telling me 47°C :P 12:39:42 *** SkeedR [~SkeedR@cpc83485-wolv18-2-0-cust36.16-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 12:39:56 *** SkeedR [~SkeedR@cpc83485-wolv18-2-0-cust36.16-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:48 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest3209 12:41:50 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 12:42:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6C12.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 12:47:45 <Alberth> in the sun, that sounds correct :p 12:47:50 *** Guest3209 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:52:35 <Alberth> hmm, DisplayOptions in openttd.h, that looks a little lost :) 12:56:56 <frosch123> rename "openttd.h" to "lostandfound.h" ? 13:01:32 * andythenorth is an idiot 13:01:40 <andythenorth> Iâve re-drawn the modern trucks to be quite chibi 13:01:50 <andythenorth> which leaves no room for the older, smaller trucks :P 13:02:03 <andythenorth> just not enough pixels to actually draw them :P 13:03:44 <Alberth> :( 13:04:01 <andythenorth> solution: redraw the modern trucks :P 13:05:13 <Alberth> rename would fail, compiler isn't so smart to look in lostandfound when it looses an include file 13:08:13 <andythenorth> chibi trucks do look nicer though :P 13:08:35 <andythenorth> but theyâd all have to be same size, no possibility for newer = bigger, older = smaller 13:08:47 *** NGC3982 [~milda@81-228-202-215-no69.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:15:07 <Alberth> smaller length-wise :p 13:15:48 <Alberth> or rather, breath-wise 13:18:24 <andythenorth> when a cab is 3px long and 4px wide, itâs hard to draw it with any shape :) 13:25:11 *** Gumle2 [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 13:28:16 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:28:21 *** Gumle2 is now known as Gja 13:38:44 * andythenorth sizes trucks to match trains :P http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/595a2162d26246a982fbf834e4028fef/vintage-teddy-bear-diesel-locomotive-on-the-back-of-a-low-loader-at-d661f5.jpg 13:43:18 <Alberth> nice form of road train :p 13:50:15 <Eddi|zuHause> british trains are, of course, smaller than regular trains. 13:52:19 <andythenorth> yup 13:52:19 <supermop> frosch123: summer thunderstorms are my favorite part of the season 13:52:40 <frosch123> if you are inside :) 13:52:50 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: file that as a bug with Iron Horse / most other train sets :D 13:54:35 <andythenorth> hmm, some tunnel glitches due to height :P 14:06:19 <sim-al2> And then there's tube trains, making regular British trains look big :p 14:06:49 <Islacrusez> tube trains? you mean glorified cans of beans? 14:07:59 <andythenorth> is there any way to stop the ottd console snaffling ctrl-b ? 14:17:47 <Alberth> don't press it? 14:21:42 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:24 <andythenorth> :P 14:36:34 <andythenorth> reload_newgrfs, toggle bounding box :P 14:36:41 <andythenorth> is a thing I do a lot 14:40:50 <Eddi|zuHause> just close the console? 14:46:05 * andythenorth not good at doing sequences in correct order :P 14:46:06 <andythenorth> nvm 14:47:14 *** Tirili [~Unknown@HSI-KBW-082-212-030-207.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #openttd 14:49:56 <Alberth> some smart cookie decided to disable bounding boxes on reload, I take it? 14:53:28 <Alberth> also, why does fios seem so bloody complicated? I can't see structure with all the magic globals 15:05:11 *** tycoondemon2 [~ashnohoe@D97B8CD4.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:29 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@D97B8CD4.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:08:06 *** aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:38:32 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:41:04 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has joined #openttd 15:49:42 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:54:41 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7830/powerstock_dump_truck_improved.png 15:55:19 <andythenorth> the midsize truck is the best looking sprite, but eh, there are 3 older trucks preceding it in the roster 15:56:04 <andythenorth> so I have to use the big one here 16:00:06 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has joined #openttd 16:06:51 <Islacrusez> doesn't necessarily need to be larger; more capacity can come from a stronger chassis or somesuch... alternatively have you tried a longer trailer without making it taller? 16:09:53 <Alberth> the "previous" could be an earlier generation 16:10:35 <Alberth> the body looks much less strong 16:11:10 <Alberth> maybe even remove a pixel to reduce height 16:14:22 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:16:39 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 16:17:03 <V453000> yo humenz 16:17:45 <Islacrusez> no humenz here, only zuul 16:19:34 <V453000> zuul? 16:22:12 <Islacrusez> http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/there-is-no-dana-only-zuul 16:23:43 <V453000> gg 16:29:22 <Mazur> GoatBusters! 16:30:22 <Eddi|zuHause> all sorts of terrible thoughts popped in my head just there 16:30:49 <Mazur> Yeah, good, innit? 16:34:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6A84F.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:38:00 *** aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 16:40:30 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6C12.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:48:31 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:48:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:54:16 <Islacrusez> Mazur, I feel violated. Thanks. 17:01:40 <BarbarianKabbage_> Wow... I haven't been here since last night XD. We went to a parade and it went on until 11:00 so the minute I got home, I fell asleep. 17:02:29 <BarbarianKabbage_> lol GoatBusters 17:02:45 <BarbarianKabbage_> If you've played the NES game it's more like GERSTBUSTERS 17:04:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i never played NES games 17:04:43 <BarbarianKabbage_> And of course the end being CONGLATURATION !!! YOU HAVE COMPLETED A GRATE GAME. AND PROOVED THE JUSTICE OF OUR CULTURE. NOW GO AND REST OUR HEROES ! 17:05:05 <BarbarianKabbage_> oh 17:05:20 <BarbarianKabbage_> Well, the opening of the game is a bad soundbyte 17:05:51 <BarbarianKabbage_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVIhEoIvcD0 17:05:54 <BarbarianKabbage_> There 17:07:00 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 17:07:15 <Mazur> I've got millions more like it. 17:07:22 <Eddi|zuHause> never quite got the point of "x hours of <blah>" videos 17:07:24 <Mazur> Thank you, folks, i'll be here all year! 17:08:55 <Islacrusez> Eddi|zuHause, in most cases it's some sort of endurance challenge 17:09:28 <Islacrusez> because people have something to prove to the internetz or something 17:11:40 <BarbarianKabbage_> oh 17:11:41 <BarbarianKabbage_> lol 17:11:51 <BarbarianKabbage_> I don't understand some of them either 17:12:02 <BarbarianKabbage_> the music ones I can kind of understand 17:13:05 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:14:41 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db606eb.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 17:52:26 <_dp_> is there any way to allow oil refineries to be built everywhere? 17:53:16 <_dp_> there is setting but it seems to change nothing rly (12-48 tiles from border, as if it matters) 17:56:14 <Alberth> newgrf can fix it, afaik 17:58:32 *** NGC3982 [~milda@81-228-202-215-no69.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 17:59:12 <_dp_> Alberth, except that newgrf can't change default industries afaik 18:01:28 <Alberth> indeed, but you asked for "any way" 18:02:39 <Alberth> play at 64x64 would also work :p 18:03:01 <Alberth> you only need 32 tiles from the edge then :) 18:03:17 <Alberth> oh, 2048x64, anyone? :) 18:04:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:12:46 <_dp_> mb I'll just remove all oil 18:12:56 <_dp_> not gonna work in temperate anyway :p 18:16:15 <BarbarianKabbage_> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ma4y614mowt7yoq/AABp71AqGVhNPGjNop6LEx4Qa?dl=0 There just made another MIDI Music for OpenTTD 18:16:43 <BarbarianKabbage_> It's Rock and Roll, and I think I'll make some more music and put it into a pack. 18:27:50 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:27:53 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 18:34:46 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:39:33 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@a85-139-82-230.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 18:39:40 <Samu> hi 18:41:00 <Samu> I'm trying to play openttd on a very old system and I just remembered that I need version 1.5.2 18:41:16 <Samu> newer versions past that are extremely slow 18:43:24 <Samu> where can i dl 1.5.2 or what can i do to improve openttd performance? 18:48:37 *** Xal [~xal@S0106f0f2490b0073.vw.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 18:51:51 <Alberth> get the url of a stable version, and modify it to point to the version you want 18:51:52 <debdog> https://www.openttd.org/en/download-stable/1.5.2 18:52:00 <debdog> hehe, beats me 18:52:05 *** TomLeyton [TomLeyton@87.71.78.200] has joined #openttd 18:52:42 <Alberth> unfortunately, there are too many robot spiders continuously downloading all old versions 18:52:50 <Alberth> and eating our bandwidth :( 18:53:14 <Alberth> so the links to the older versions were removed 18:53:36 <Samu> thx, got it 18:55:41 <Samu> by chance, do you know what was changed from 1.5.2 to make it so slow? 18:58:58 <Alberth> 1.6 changelog is pretty small 18:59:07 *** NGC3982 [~milda@81-228-202-215-no69.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:00:07 <Alberth> I wouldn't know what can cause that 19:01:24 <Eddi|zuHause> BarbarianKabbage_: small suggestion: if you want someone to put your music into a pack, you should include a clear and concise license (e.g. one of the CC licenses) so people in 5 years stumbling over the topic don't have to hunt you down for permission, when you've long since moved on to other projects 19:03:03 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:04:14 <BarbarianKabbage_> Okay 19:04:16 <BarbarianKabbage_> Thanks 19:04:21 <Eddi|zuHause> BarbarianKabbage_: the forum is full of art where people ignored this license thing, and nobody dares to touch it 19:04:52 <Eddi|zuHause> huge parts of the 32bpp images, for example 19:06:14 <BarbarianKabbage_> I've never applied a license to something before. 19:06:37 <Islacrusez> just because people do it doesn't mean it's nice, good practice, or legal 19:07:54 <Eddi|zuHause> for the CC licenses it's fairly easy, you decide what people should or shouldn't be allowed to do (like make verbatim copies, modify it, make money off it), and it comes with a short abbreviation like "CC-BY-ND" which you stick in the description of your title 19:08:30 <BarbarianKabbage_> Oh 19:08:41 <BarbarianKabbage_> Is OpenTTD Technically COmmercial? 19:09:01 <Alberth> ? 19:09:06 <BarbarianKabbage_> I don't believe so because you can get it for free. 19:09:16 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not forbidden to distribute OpenTTD commecrially. some linux distributions might exclude software which forbids it 19:09:20 <BarbarianKabbage_> It's open-source 19:09:25 <Alberth> the whole point is that if you don't say what is allowed, nothing is allowed 19:09:33 <BarbarianKabbage_> oh 19:09:59 <Alberth> so the only thing that can be done is to leave it alone 19:10:45 <Alberth> ie if you publish something at the forum, it does not mean anybody can use it 19:10:59 <Alberth> you have to explicitly say so 19:11:19 <Samu> oh? :o 19:11:22 <Samu> just use it 19:13:15 <Eddi|zuHause> BarbarianKabbage_: the license of OpenTTD has almost nothing to do with the license for your music, anyway. it's almost certainly two distinct projects which can have different licenses 19:13:16 <Samu> I dont understand the point of licenses 19:13:34 <BarbarianKabbage_> Would BY-SA be a good option? 19:13:47 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, that's fine 19:13:49 <Alberth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki <-- that says a few words about licenses 19:14:08 <Alberth> Samu: It protects your work 19:15:02 <BarbarianKabbage_> Ok 19:15:09 <Islacrusez> it also tells people whether or not they can legally use your work; otherwise the more principled people might just ignore it and use something else 19:15:35 *** NGC3982 [~milda@81-228-202-215-no69.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:15:39 <BarbarianKabbage_> It's gonna be BY-NC-SA 19:15:59 <Samu> if I put something online, it's already there, I can't claim anything anymore. 19:16:07 <Alberth> Islacrusez: using it not a problem as nobody knows what I use at my system, publishing is the problem, and extending it after the original author left 19:16:30 <Samu> If I really cared to restrict it, I wouldn't even post. 19:16:33 <Alberth> Samu: false, it's still your work 19:17:03 <Islacrusez> Samu, oh boy I hope you never run in with RIAA and co 19:17:11 <BarbarianKabbage_> I just don't wnt people making money off of it. 19:17:15 <Islacrusez> "It's online, you can't claim it anymore" would be a great legal defense 19:17:37 <Sylf> I would drop NC part 19:17:47 <BarbarianKabbage_> Why tho 19:17:48 <Alberth> if it's online, the only thing you can't do is make it go away :) 19:17:50 <Eddi|zuHause> BarbarianKabbage_: that's fine, from now on put this "CC-BY-NC-SA" into the description of all titles you post 19:17:58 <Alberth> Sylf: He picked BY-SA 19:18:20 <Sylf> oh. I only read the BY-NC-SA part above 19:18:26 <Eddi|zuHause> NC is considered fairly restrictive 19:18:28 <Alberth> hmm, true 19:19:04 <Eddi|zuHause> some more openness-oriented communities really dislike it. but i don't really see the problem 19:19:38 <Islacrusez> really, being able to sell someone else's work is a dealbreaker for people? 19:19:39 <Sylf> it's just a restriction that's not needed imo 19:19:44 <Eddi|zuHause> but imagine this: someone makes a let's play on youtube, which includes your music running in the background. can he tick the "monetize this video" box? 19:19:48 <Sylf> unless you're really against someone making money off of your product 19:20:12 <BarbarianKabbage_> Basically all I want is my name somewhere for the music 19:20:13 <Alberth> Islacrusez: getting BSD into an Apple machine would be 19:20:40 <Islacrusez> eh? 19:21:15 <Alberth> if you would have NC as license, you couldn't put BSD into a commercial product 19:21:35 <BarbarianKabbage_> What is a BSD 19:21:37 <Alberth> that's the dealbreaker for people 19:21:48 <BarbarianKabbage_> What's it stand for? 19:21:53 <Alberth> BarbarianKabbage_: alternative for Linux 19:22:04 <BarbarianKabbage_> oh 19:22:19 <BarbarianKabbage_> I thought you were talking about CC codes 19:22:22 <Alberth> it has a more free license than Linux 19:22:43 <andythenorth> NC is a dumb move for most work created as a hobby 19:22:44 <Alberth> you can just take it and use it for any purpose 19:24:28 <BarbarianKabbage_> I guess BY-SA would be the easiest for me? 19:24:28 <Islacrusez> surely if you're giving away something for free, it's within the bounds of NC? 19:25:08 <BarbarianKabbage_> I'm gonna do BY-NC I think 19:25:14 <Eddi|zuHause> BarbarianKabbage_: CC-BY-SA will give you the least troubles in the long run 19:25:34 <Eddi|zuHause> but in the end it's your decision 19:25:42 <BarbarianKabbage_> So CC-BY-SA Is what I'm gonna go for until I can like, sell music. 19:26:04 <BarbarianKabbage_> I'm only 13. I don't think I'm gonna get a record deal anytime soon XD 19:26:13 <BarbarianKabbage_> Especially with MIDI Music LOL 19:26:14 <Eddi|zuHause> you can also put CC-BY-NC-SA, and change your mind later and drop the NC 19:26:28 <BarbarianKabbage_> Well, It's MIDI Music 19:26:36 <Eddi|zuHause> ultimately, it's your choice, though 19:26:52 <Eddi|zuHause> music is music... 19:27:03 <BarbarianKabbage_> I think I'm gonna go with CC-BY-SA is gonna be my best bet 19:27:22 <BarbarianKabbage_> RIP English ^ 19:27:26 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 19:27:31 <Sylf> :P 19:27:41 <BarbarianKabbage_> Where should I post my Music? 19:27:50 <Eddi|zuHause> forum is fine for now 19:27:58 <BarbarianKabbage_> Like what directory of this forum? 19:28:03 <BarbarianKabbage_> General 19:28:14 <Sylf> request a project on dev.openttdcoop.org :) 19:28:36 <Sylf> I might drop a midi or two too 19:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause> there's not going to be much demand for a music subforum, so general is fine :) 19:30:03 <BarbarianKabbage_> I'm gonna pobably sound like an idiot but... what is an OpenID 19:30:27 <Sylf> it's a single-sign-on system 19:30:29 <Eddi|zuHause> like a wallet, where you collect logins to sizes 19:30:34 <Eddi|zuHause> *sites 19:30:43 <Eddi|zuHause> so you don't have to remember hundreds of passwords 19:30:52 <Eddi|zuHause> or worse, use the same password everywhere 19:32:01 <andythenorth> silly trucks 19:32:06 <andythenorth> and their silly number of wheels 19:32:26 <Eddi|zuHause> usually an even number. 19:33:02 <Alberth> you don't have to do the spare tire 19:33:19 <andythenorth> IRL is just not compatible with the game :P 19:33:31 <andythenorth> the game wants a logical progression from fewer wheels -> more wheels over time 19:33:43 <andythenorth> and for each generation, same number of total wheels on different truck models 19:34:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that sounds like a very arbitrary basis for a set... 19:35:05 <andythenorth> itâs only a detail of sprites 19:35:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm questioning the "the game wants" part of your premise 19:35:44 <andythenorth> means I have to draw the trucks that the rules need, rather than the ones I find interesting 19:35:50 <andythenorth> meh 19:36:00 <Alberth> nah, change the rules 19:36:04 <supermop> andythenorth: trucks get worse every 10 years 19:36:26 <andythenorth> I didnât make the rules 19:36:29 <supermop> best truck comes out in 1900, a wheelbarrow comes out in 2050 19:36:45 <Samu> trucks get scars? pain falls apart? 19:36:45 <andythenorth> âyourâ brain knows that you canât have 30t / 7 axles -> 40t / 6 axles 19:36:50 <Samu> paint* 19:36:51 <andythenorth> your brain knows that more = bigger 19:36:54 <Alberth> hmm, as a sort of counter transport wrt trains? 19:36:55 <andythenorth> never more = smaller 19:37:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but your current computer is almost certainly smaller than your last one 19:37:40 <Alberth> horse carts on steroids 19:38:01 <Eddi|zuHause> 5 years ago i'd have said the same about phones, but they went a different direction... 19:38:04 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: oddly enough, itâs been same size for about 10 years :P 19:38:10 <andythenorth> and yes, phones prove the point currently :( 19:38:13 <andythenorth> silly big phones 19:38:35 <BarbarianKabbage_> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=74898 19:38:39 <BarbarianKabbage_> That's my topic 19:38:51 <Alberth> it happens when you want to read the newspaper at your phone :) 19:40:01 <BarbarianKabbage_> I want to thank you guys for helping me :) 19:41:44 <Eddi|zuHause> BarbarianKabbage_: fine. just to emphasise: you should put the "CC-BY-SA" bit also in each file you post, not just in the topic 19:41:56 <BarbarianKabbage_> Yeah 19:42:06 <BarbarianKabbage_> That's what I'm gonna do 19:42:09 <Eddi|zuHause> (assuming every file has a title and a description, put it into the description) 19:42:28 <BarbarianKabbage_> Okay 19:43:09 <Eddi|zuHause> that's also where you put your name. 19:44:51 <Eddi|zuHause> (and when i say "name" it doesn't have to be your real name, can also be an alias (artist name) 19:44:55 <Eddi|zuHause> ) 19:54:49 <andythenorth> eh http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7831/hog-axles.png 20:00:26 <Eddi|zuHause> there should only be one axle at the front 20:01:28 <andythenorth> because...? 20:01:50 <Eddi|zuHause> one to support the weight of the cab, two to support the weight of the cargo 20:01:52 *** roidal [~roland@62-46-143-165.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4] 20:02:25 <Eddi|zuHause> the cargo is mostly in the back 20:02:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so the back should have more axles than the front 20:02:38 <andythenorth> so the problem is realism? 20:02:50 <Eddi|zuHause> not really... 20:03:08 <sim-al2> There seems to be a lot of trucks with axles like that, although a bit more spread out 20:03:43 <andythenorth> UK truck configurations tend to be driven by legal regime 20:03:51 <andythenorth> hence this http://truck-photos.net.s3.amazonaws.com/12668.jpg 20:03:58 <andythenorth> for 1940s-1950s trucks 20:04:44 <andythenorth> only legal high configuration for high payload at that time 20:04:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say that truck is much bigger than the one in your picture 20:05:04 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:05:08 <andythenorth> I made the game ones a bit chibi 20:05:14 <andythenorth> Iâm making them longer again 20:05:31 * Islacrusez is very confused at all this arbitrary stressing about axles 20:05:41 <andythenorth> buy menu has to look good 20:05:46 <Eddi|zuHause> that's fine, but the "chibi" thing emphasises the "too many axles" problem 20:05:54 <andythenorth> problem is realism 20:06:01 <andythenorth> needs to be abandoned 20:06:05 <andythenorth> usual problem 20:06:06 <Eddi|zuHause> if you make it "chibi", remove some axles 20:06:54 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the "problem" is that you can't decide whether to make it "realistic" or not, so your thoughts go back and forth too much 20:07:08 <Islacrusez> so the logical conclusion is that the first available vehicle should be a wheelbarrow and the last available vehicle should be rocket transporter? 20:07:09 *** Rejf [rejf@nintendos.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:07:39 <Islacrusez> quit stressing about how the buy menu looks, nobody's gonna look at the pictures anyway 20:08:04 <andythenorth> Islacrusez: wheelbarrow -> rocket transporter sounds like a strong progression ;) 20:08:24 <Eddi|zuHause> if your goal is to make a logical wheel progression, then list all the wheel arrangements before making any pixel 20:08:47 <andythenorth> oh I did that in BANDIT 20:08:53 <Islacrusez> decision process for upgrading to a new vehicle: does this new vehicle have better stats than my existing vehicle y/n; y-> upgrade 20:08:59 <andythenorth> I have a page of a notebook listing all the logical progression 20:09:05 <andythenorth> but no pixels 20:09:12 <andythenorth> and BANDIT was really boring, no soul 20:09:58 <andythenorth> also procedural graphics generation :P 20:09:59 <andythenorth> meh 20:10:10 <Eddi|zuHause> well, then define wheel progression as a non-goal. 20:11:01 <Eddi|zuHause> then you have two approaches left: make the pixels first, then give them stats, or make the stats first, then give them pixels 20:11:27 <andythenorth> stats first, then pixels 20:11:38 <Islacrusez> also if your vehicle progression has no depth you end up in the completely soul-crushing situation where there is only one correct vehicle at any given time; you should have alternatives that fill different needs 20:11:52 <andythenorth> Islacrusez I think the opposite 20:12:00 <andythenorth> there should always be one correct vehicle 20:12:09 <Islacrusez> then why play? the designer has already made the decisions for you? 20:12:26 <Islacrusez> there should be a correct vehicle for the job, not for the time period 20:12:37 <andythenorth> ok, thatâs a better description yes 20:12:53 <andythenorth> these sets are designed on âone obvious choiceâ, not âonly one choice' 20:13:22 <Islacrusez> but surely if you're focusing on how the buy list looks, you're losing track of that goal 20:13:30 <andythenorth> why? 20:13:56 <andythenorth> vehicle appearance should give player a clue to stats 20:14:56 <Islacrusez> vehicle x fits condition x1, vehicle y fits condition y1; list goes x, y; if you're focusing on the buy list having a progression, you force yourself to give the visual appearance of y > x, despite the opposite being true under x1 20:15:31 <andythenorth> nah, I donât get that, sorry :) 20:16:00 <andythenorth> if thereâs no progression between vehicle generations, why have them? 20:16:18 <andythenorth> if gen 2 is not better than gen 1, why have it? 20:17:09 <Islacrusez> better != bigger != more axles != prettier 20:17:46 <Islacrusez> better yes, but you're using very arbitrary appearance parameters as your definition for better 20:18:05 <andythenorth> what is better? 20:19:03 <Eddi|zuHause> better could mean more speed, more capacity, less running costs, other... 20:19:27 <Islacrusez> better performance; which should be a distinct a distinct metric for all the different vehicles types and the progression of each vehicle type should be an improvement in that specific metric for every generation 20:19:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd approach it differntly: two vehicles for the same general purpose should have the same basic look, only the style changes with the times 20:20:48 * andythenorth is still convinced that âbetter = bigger" 20:21:05 <andythenorth> I donât think anything else makes sense to players 20:21:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i disagree. 20:21:26 <Islacrusez> if that's your view of players I wonder why you bother =/ 20:21:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the "better" comes from the stats, not from the looks 20:21:55 <Islacrusez> I look at the stats, as apparently does Eddi, and I'd wager that anyone playing to do well 20:22:29 <andythenorth> I donât think it makes sense to âupgradeâ from vehicle A to vehicle B, where vehicle B is smaller 20:22:43 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why i said make them the same 20:23:39 <andythenorth> same physical dimensions? 20:23:40 <Islacrusez> but you would trade a cargo ship for a truck on a 10-tile route only producing 30units/month? 20:23:49 <Eddi|zuHause> make them rounder, edgier, flashier, sparkling 20:24:27 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, same physical dimension 20:24:44 <Islacrusez> if bigger is better, the cargo ship should always be the thing you use 20:24:49 <Islacrusez> and we all know this isn't true 20:24:58 <andythenorth> they donât appear in same buy menu 20:25:04 <Islacrusez> so? 20:25:07 <Islacrusez> it's bigger! 20:25:10 <Islacrusez> everyone can see that! 20:25:14 <andythenorth> and ships logically are the best transport type, theyâre just boring 20:25:18 <andythenorth> they have infinite capacity 20:25:29 <andythenorth> logic != fun 20:25:49 <Islacrusez> has OTTD changed drastically since I last played or something? 20:26:13 <andythenorth> when did you last play? o_O 20:26:33 <Islacrusez> last I checked it was near impossible to make money on a ship if you couldn't fill it in the minimum loading time 20:26:40 <andythenorth> ships print money 20:26:47 <andythenorth> and there are no infrastructure restrictions 20:27:03 <Islacrusez> they used to have a running cost though, don't they have that anymore? 20:27:22 <andythenorth> which is best? o_O http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7832/bigger_better.png 20:27:33 * andythenorth posts a counter argument 20:27:39 <Islacrusez> don't know, give me stats 20:27:47 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: electric is better. 20:27:55 <andythenorth> looks faster, stronger? 20:28:03 <andythenorth> train 3 is 100mph, 1750hp 20:28:15 <andythenorth> train 5 is 155mph, 6400hp 20:28:40 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: add racing stripes to make the trucks faster. 20:28:46 <andythenorth> ha 20:28:49 <andythenorth> streamlining 20:28:55 <andythenorth> more exhaust pipes 20:29:22 <Islacrusez> well train 5 is your choice if speed is your primary concern; but if it costs 1,000,000 $/hr then it might not be the best solution 20:29:33 <andythenorth> running cost is irrelevant 20:29:37 <andythenorth> money is not a factor in openttd 20:29:43 <Islacrusez> ... 20:29:46 <Islacrusez> wut? 20:29:55 <Islacrusez> I give up, we're not playing the same game 20:30:14 <Eddi|zuHause> it's really unlikely that two people plaing openttd play the same game :p 20:30:15 <andythenorth> no donât give up, the argument helps the design 20:30:33 <andythenorth> now which is better? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7833/bigger_better_2.png 20:30:38 <Eddi|zuHause> there's just too much of a variation in gameplay 20:31:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the one with the most axles and strongest walls. 20:31:17 <Islacrusez> surely one should also remove: all money, loans, costs, and may as well remove the cargo too since the only purpose of moving cargo is to earn money 20:31:48 <Eddi|zuHause> volume is hardly a concern for coal, and even less so for iron ore 20:31:48 <Islacrusez> andythenorth, assuming the last one doesn't weigh 1,000,000t, probably the last one 20:32:12 <Islacrusez> ultimately it's going to be about the stats 20:32:27 <Islacrusez> what use is a wagon with infinite capacity if my trains can't move it? 20:32:36 <Islacrusez> what use is a train with infinite power if I can't afford it? 20:33:01 <Islacrusez> what use is a big vehicle if I can't load it? what use is it if it carries no cargo? 20:33:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Islacrusez: what use is worrying about infinity if you can never reach it? 20:33:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Islacrusez: what use is thinking about god if you can never meet him? 20:33:38 <Islacrusez> Eddi|zuHause, functionally infinite 20:33:51 <andythenorth> but the stats are all level for each vehicle generation 20:33:58 <Islacrusez> you can say there's no limit to how much cargo it can load, but you'll crash the game eventually 20:34:32 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the stats in the same generation should be uncomparables 20:34:41 <andythenorth> gen 1 trucks are all 25t, gen 2 30t, gen 3 40t 20:34:42 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 20:34:47 <andythenorth> and they all have similar speeds and HP 20:34:56 <Islacrusez> then you're probably doing it wrong 20:35:18 <andythenorth> how many sets have you made? :) 20:35:33 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: each vehicle in a generation should have a stat where it's better than all the others, and one where it's worse. 20:35:42 <Islacrusez> ^ 20:35:47 <andythenorth> why bother with that? 20:35:56 <andythenorth> making rational economic choices is boring 20:36:02 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 20:36:09 <andythenorth> the game is about building routes and stopping traffic jams 20:36:18 * Islacrusez sighs 20:36:23 <andythenorth> you pick the vehicle that matches the cargo 20:36:45 <andythenorth> why make the tanker truck arbitrarily better or worse than the open cargo truck? 20:36:50 <Islacrusez> then you're violating your own design requirement <andythenorth> these sets are designed on âone obvious choiceâ, not âonly one choice' 20:37:04 <andythenorth> how does that violate it? 20:37:10 <Islacrusez> if one vehicle is better at everything, there's only one choice 20:37:10 <andythenorth> you pick the one that matches the cargo 20:37:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: then you should have only one vehicle per generation. 20:37:19 <andythenorth> no we tried that :) 20:37:24 <Islacrusez> in fact you should only have one vehicle 20:37:31 <andythenorth> refittable truck 20:37:33 <andythenorth> very boring 20:37:34 <Islacrusez> get rid of the player too, there's no choices to make 20:37:56 <andythenorth> youâre confusing âchoiceâ with âeconomic analysis' 20:38:08 <Islacrusez> fine, there's no decisions to make 20:38:22 <andythenorth> most of the big newgrfs start out with realism, then load on stats tweaks as a form of gameplay âbalance' 20:38:26 <andythenorth> post-hoc 20:38:46 <andythenorth> with dubious results, and tedious economic analysis to justify which vehicle is the right choice 20:39:01 <Islacrusez> so the solution is to throw out both realism and balance? ingenious 20:39:05 <andythenorth> eh? 20:39:14 <andythenorth> the balance is between different transport types 20:39:17 <andythenorth> mostly 20:39:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if the 3 stats you're balancing are speed, capacity and price, you should have (about) 3 different choices for each cargo: 1 which is cheaper but has shit speed and shit capacity, 1 which is fast but is expensive and has shit capacity, and 1 which is huge but is expensive and has shit speed 20:39:55 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: actually I agree almost completely with that 20:40:02 <andythenorth> trams / highway trucks / off-highway trucks 20:40:09 <Islacrusez> and yet you refuse to implement it 20:40:20 <andythenorth> I *have* implemented it :P 20:40:22 <andythenorth> thatâs the set 20:40:31 <Islacrusez> but bigger is better! 20:40:38 <Islacrusez> and also money no object 20:41:16 <Islacrusez> <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: each vehicle in a generation should have a stat where it's better than all the others, and one where it's worse. 20:41:16 <andythenorth> weâre confused here about differences between vehicle types, and progression for vehicles generations 20:41:19 <Islacrusez> <andythenorth> why bother with that? 20:41:32 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so, since we established that, from now on, consider each of these 3 categories separaately. each of these needs a logical progression over generations 20:41:37 <andythenorth> yes 20:41:40 <andythenorth> thatâs all sorted 20:41:44 <andythenorth> the sprites just donât make sense 20:41:58 <andythenorth> sprites go small -> big -> small -> small 20:42:02 <andythenorth> daft 20:42:05 <andythenorth> needs fixing 20:42:27 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why i said, the generations should all be roughly the same size 20:42:29 <andythenorth> yes 20:42:34 <andythenorth> you are correct 20:42:37 <andythenorth> again :P 20:42:56 <andythenorth> I will interpret âroughlyââ quite liberally though 20:43:00 <Eddi|zuHause> there's only so many pixels you can add to make them "bigger" before it gets unwieldy 20:43:08 <andythenorth> yes 20:43:57 *** MonkeyDrone [~MonkDAce@80.88.255.44] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:44:11 <andythenorth> even 8/8 trailers look stupid 20:44:35 <andythenorth> I looked at the original base set trucks earlier, theyâre not one of the finest parts of the original sprites :P 20:45:00 *** pereba [~adiirc@2804:7f2:80:beb9:44f4:ff89:ea51:c174] has joined #openttd 20:45:42 <andythenorth> so all I need to do is ignore history of UK trucks, make all 1940s trucks 4 or 5 axles, problem solved 20:46:22 <andythenorth> thanks 20:52:40 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:52:49 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db606eb.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 20:56:16 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@cE6A03E56.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 20:56:29 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@c3EFA45C1.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #openttd 21:01:04 *** Tirili [~Unknown@HSI-KBW-082-212-030-207.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:02:27 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@a85-139-82-230.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:13:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 21:15:04 <_dp_> I'd really like to have more flexibility with town growth speed 21:15:23 <BarbarianKabbage_> What do you mean 21:15:42 <BarbarianKabbage_> For modding? 21:15:50 <_dp_> small towns are not fun, and once they get to like growth_rate < 3 it's too little options 21:16:19 <_dp_> and so much difference, rate 0 is twice faster than rate 1 21:16:29 <BarbarianKabbage_> Sometimes I like to play by starting in the smallest town and getting it really big. Haven't made it that far 21:16:33 <_dp_> for citybuilder 21:16:48 <BarbarianKabbage_> oh 21:16:54 <BarbarianKabbage_> I haven't played CityBuilder 21:17:52 <BarbarianKabbage_> When I first heard about it, I thought that the roles were reversed; you were having bots get resources and YOU built the city 21:18:05 <BarbarianKabbage_> ai not bots 21:18:07 <BarbarianKabbage_> srry 21:18:39 <_dp_> and it's very easy to grow town of any size in regular openttd, just build roads, do 5 stations and leave on fast-forward) 21:19:20 <BarbarianKabbage_> yeah 21:19:24 <_dp_> nooo, ofc not, cb is all about resources, growing town itself isn't that much of a problem 21:20:34 <BarbarianKabbage_> People play on big servers for CityBuilder, right? 21:20:41 <_dp_> yeah 21:20:51 <BarbarianKabbage_> I don't think I could ever go on a server 21:21:05 <_dp_> why? 21:21:06 <BarbarianKabbage_> I've been playing OpenTTD for a while and still kind of suck at it 21:21:29 <_dp_> then go on good server and learn :p 21:21:46 <_dp_> it's much better than learning from bots xD 21:21:46 <BarbarianKabbage_> what servers are good 21:22:43 <_dp_> citymania, btpro, n-ice as goal servers, openttdcoop for networking, reddit for just chilling) 21:23:05 <BarbarianKabbage_> I'm gonna try the Reddit one 21:23:20 <BarbarianKabbage_> I like how this game doesn't have a bad community :) 21:23:52 <BarbarianKabbage_> I mean, there will always be a grumpy guy, but most other games everybody calls you a noob and be mean. 21:25:44 <_dp_> yeah, most of good players are very nice and helpful here 21:26:15 <BarbarianKabbage_> What is a 'goal server' 21:26:40 <BarbarianKabbage_> like you have a goal like RollerCoaster Tycoon? 21:27:26 <_dp_> one that has some goal like "reach 1mil company value" and you compete with other players on who's first to reach it 21:27:42 <_dp_> all citybuider servers are goal ones 21:28:08 <BarbarianKabbage_> oh 21:28:28 <_dp_> didn't play rct so no idea what kind of goals are there) 21:29:14 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 21:29:24 <_dp_> basically, on goal servers you can compete with other players 21:30:48 <BarbarianKabbage_> are you on a server currently? 21:30:54 *** NGC3982 [~milda@81-228-202-215-no69.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:31:05 <_dp_> no 21:31:13 <BarbarianKabbage_> k 21:38:14 *** aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:46:20 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 21:47:13 <Eddi|zuHause> <BarbarianKabbage_> I've been playing OpenTTD for a while and still kind of suck at it <-- you find loads of people who have been playing for 20 years and still suck :p 21:47:48 *** NGC3982 [~milda@81-228-202-215-no69.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 21:58:09 *** NGC3982 [~milda@81-228-202-215-no69.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:58:34 <ST2> and BarbarianKabbage_ chose a ULTRA HARD GOAL server to test - not the best to start but since you manage there, all others look like take candies to babies xD 21:59:16 <_dp_> ST2, not so sure about that ;) 21:59:47 <ST2> yeah, I know that - but for CV's?! 22:00:25 <_dp_> for cv dunno, cv is stupid :p 22:00:50 <ST2> well, same as CB... BB is the way to go :P 22:01:48 <_dp_> ST2, nah, cv is same as balance but with 1.5x for new vehicles 22:02:03 <ST2> there I agree with you 22:02:03 <_dp_> ST2, which makes no sense whatsoever 22:03:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i honestly have no clue what game you are playing there... 22:03:40 *** NGC3982 [~milda@81-228-202-215-no69.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 22:04:03 <ST2> vanilla OpenTTD gives 1,5x CV value to who spams on buying trains 22:04:07 <ST2> for example 22:04:41 <ST2> _dp_ knows more on there, but it's a very old and known CV cheat 22:05:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i have never even put the remotest thought into company value. 22:05:23 <Eddi|zuHause> except for "it's stupid that it stays on 2â¬" 22:05:25 <ST2> it's shown on Company window ^^ 22:05:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah. but who ever looks at that window? 22:05:42 <ST2> and always been there, not new ^^ 22:05:45 <_dp_> ST2, there is nothing more to know here) 22:06:15 <_dp_> Eddi doesn't play goal servers) 22:06:36 <ST2> CV is shown even on SP games ^^ 22:06:42 <_dp_> for some reason CV is just often used for a goal 22:07:15 <_dp_> ST2, yeah, but nobody cares in sp 22:07:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6A84F.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:08:01 <ST2> nothing against hoe ppl play the game 22:08:07 <ST2> how* 22:08:52 <Eddi|zuHause> ST2: you're talking like i have never seen the value before... 22:10:27 <ST2> not interest in continue discussion, but yes, kinda :P 22:11:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i have seen it before. 22:11:18 <Eddi|zuHause> it just never was interesting 22:11:33 <Eddi|zuHause> it also showed no correlation to what i was doing in the game 22:11:45 <Eddi|zuHause> might have as well be a random value 22:12:02 <ST2> http://ttdredd.it/detail?srv=1 22:12:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not stating to put effort in it now :p 22:12:27 <ST2> it's common communities use it as base 22:13:00 <_dp_> ST2, so tell me, why are you still using it? ;) 22:13:29 <ST2> [23:12:21] <ST2> it's common communities use it as base <<-- self explainatory words ^^ 22:13:32 <_dp_> the second I knew it does 1.5x I was like nope, we're not running cv anymore xD 22:14:05 <_dp_> even though nova did it's own calculation without 1.5 22:14:26 <ST2> we dnt have an automatic way to do it, but vehicle number are stored in DB too 22:14:43 <ST2> so, we clean the ones that abused... when not spotted by an admin 22:15:38 <_dp_> ST2, yeah, but why bother when you can just set balance goal? 22:15:57 <ST2> bank account balance, you mean? 22:16:06 <_dp_> yy 22:16:23 <ST2> we have a script for it too, but uses admin port 22:16:33 <ST2> means, only gets info each 3 month 22:16:39 <ST2> well, same as CV xD 22:16:48 *** NGC3982 [~milda@81-228-202-215-no69.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:53 <ST2> but you got a point there :) 22:17:19 <Eddi|zuHause> how is bank balance a useful goal? 22:17:42 <Eddi|zuHause> just means the optimal play is to stop playing some time before the end, and just let money accumulate 22:17:48 <ST2> can be a Rating goal 22:17:51 <Eddi|zuHause> any money you spend beyond that point is wasted 22:17:57 <ST2> or Cargo delivered goal 22:18:11 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:18:28 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, right, but that's not that much time to wait 22:20:53 <Eddi|zuHause> bank balance is also a terrible goal, because a good company invests all its money to improve service. the game has a breaking point where it gets so complex you can't spend the money fast enough, which is where you start piling up cash 22:21:14 <Eddi|zuHause> beyond that point, money is meaningless in the game 22:22:04 <ST2> as the word "goal" states... on competitive games, means that win who gets there first 22:22:06 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, don't see any problem with that 22:22:38 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, also I'm not saying balance is a very interesting goal to play, it's pretty plaing, but still ok 22:22:51 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, simple yet competitive 22:22:59 <_dp_> *plain 22:23:14 <ST2> a tricky goal, is the yearly income 22:23:52 <_dp_> yearly stuff can be abused with storing cargo 22:24:05 <ST2> exactly 22:24:25 <ST2> I called it "tricky" ^^ 22:24:55 <ST2> not many players think about that option ^^ 22:25:04 <_dp_> ST2, I'd call it tricky if it make a good gameplay 22:25:22 <_dp_> ST2, which I seriously doubt because of how station storage works 22:26:59 <ST2> gameplay is too a relative word, since OpenTTD allows several setting combinations that can create different tactics to reach any goal (if exists) 22:28:39 <_dp_> ST2, well, what's the best tactics here, spreding cargo across numerous storage stations with regular adv. then flooding it asap? 22:28:58 <_dp_> ST2, doesn't sound very appealing to me, and I don't see how any settings can influence it 22:29:25 <_dp_> ST2, there are no settings that change station storage afaik 22:29:35 <ST2> _dp_: not saying that was a good goal type, only that's a possibility 22:30:27 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19270.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:42 <_dp_> ST2, honestly I don't even know any good goal type besides CB, and even that one is hard to do right 22:31:40 <ST2> BB 22:31:41 <_dp_> BB is close except that it needs some tweaking for competitive servers 22:31:47 <_dp_> xD 22:32:15 <ST2> true, but the most honest goals you can have 22:32:29 <ST2> and no, I'm not a politician xD 22:34:57 <ST2> and it can all be done with server code changes - but we use the gamescript, and for making a public server with it, we believe has legs to walk and grow 22:35:54 <ST2> despite the fact that I don't see any other online servers using BB GS 22:37:27 <ST2> which leads to the fact that OpenTTD online servers is not about what's more "balanced" but it's about what players like to play 22:37:51 <_dp_> ST2, I lost you here 22:38:14 <_dp_> now that I think of it, I'm not even sure what needs to be done to BB to make it more fair 22:38:51 <_dp_> its whole point is to give random goals, and random generally doesn't make a fair setting 22:38:59 <ST2> we use the released version, not trunk one - but needs to BB goals dnt repeat 22:39:03 <ST2> basically that 22:39:42 <ST2> I guess some work already done, since I look at BB trunk code (yes, I can read code too :P) 22:39:55 *** guru3_ [~guru3@109.200.19.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:00 <_dp_> givin same industry for everyone is the most obvious but not the only problem of bb 22:40:20 *** guru3 [~guru3@000128ea.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:40:30 <ST2> not same industry - repeating similar goals 22:40:41 <_dp_> ah, well, that too 22:40:45 <ST2> that's (or was) the issue 22:41:05 <ST2> competition is good 22:41:24 <ST2> because BB is about deliveries... dnt care from where is taken xD 22:42:01 <_dp_> competition is different 22:42:13 <_dp_> does'n go well with secondary/ternary industries 22:42:58 <ST2> yeah, and that forced us to adjust the rules on the server BB is running (can be chacked ingame) 22:43:07 <ST2> checked* 22:44:27 <_dp_> whatever, my main issue with bb is that I don't know how to limit its randomness 22:44:49 <ST2> exactly - and that's the good on it 22:45:21 <ST2> but it's not that random - with time you'll notice that has favourite towns and industries 22:46:08 <_dp_> how's it good? you have to give more or less similar goals to everyone if you want it to be fair 22:46:29 <ST2> I'm not saying that's good ^^ 22:47:10 <_dp_> %) 22:47:27 <ST2> [23:44:22] <_dp_> whatever, my main issue with bb is that I don't know how to limit its randomness <<-- maybe on "to limit its randomness" you wanted to say "to control its randomness" 22:48:17 <_dp_> ST2, mb, coz I don't see much difference xD 22:48:29 <ST2> only a word :P 22:49:27 <ST2> it's like the rand function in ttd, try that on climate choice and you'll get 70% climate "1" 22:50:01 <ST2> not much that random ^^ 22:50:17 <_dp_> whatever, I want any set of it's goals to take nearly the same amount of time with same level of player skill)) 22:51:01 <_dp_> ST2, bad rand distrubution is a different story, I know how to make good rand so don't care :p 22:51:22 <ST2> yeah, fixed that too ^^ 22:51:56 <_dp_> btw, we don't use random climates, we use random configs ;) 22:52:19 <ST2> from what I know (code side) from BB, the goals are randommly set, but within the start goals (example 10), 5 easy, 5 long 22:52:57 <ST2> if you get 8 easy and 2 long, means that next set of woals will be 8 long and 2 easy 22:53:03 <ST2> goals* 22:54:45 <_dp_> there definitely need to be more constraints 22:55:16 <ST2> other ways to control it, yes, I agree 22:55:30 <_dp_> mb some measure like (goal - cargo in prev goals) * distance / wagon capacity will work 22:55:59 <ST2> there's already a table created for completed goals 22:56:02 <_dp_> probably need to add some factor for how fast that cargo can be acquired 22:56:04 <ST2> to dnt repeat 22:56:35 <_dp_> it's just not about simple repeating 22:56:52 <_dp_> goods goal is much easier after livestock/grain for example 22:57:14 <ST2> depends 22:58:57 <ST2> imagine a player that gets a livestock/grain goal to a factory 22:59:02 <ST2> and he make it 22:59:17 <ST2> since factory produces... a Goods goal can appear 22:59:26 <ST2> but he pulls off his tracks 22:59:53 <ST2> ah, works too on Toyland xD 22:59:53 <_dp_> why? 23:00:02 <ST2> why not? 23:00:20 <_dp_> because it's a work for no reason? 23:00:51 <_dp_> if he has another liv/grain goal he can take goods on that factory 23:01:17 <ST2> it's a work to complete a goal - and if the map is HARD... you'll need the cash of train tracks to make the missing 3 tiles for next goal 23:01:33 <ST2> only an example xD 23:01:34 <_dp_> also when I played I always stored produced goods even if no goal required them xD 23:02:09 <ST2> <ttd-srv33> Rule #3: Do not steal other players secondary or tertiary cargos. These include GOODS, FOOD, STEEL, PAPER or FIRS related cargos only. (EXCEPTION: BusyBee server, to complete goals) 23:02:43 <_dp_> how's this rule relevant (especially with exception :p) 23:02:45 <ST2> if you take goods and not for completing a Goal of your company, you're breaking that rule 23:03:13 <ST2> so, yes, it's relevant to us 23:03:16 <_dp_> I take my goods and it is for completion (well, if I get goal for it that is xD) 23:04:55 <_dp_> as for missing tiles you're sure doing something wrong if you need that pity money from removing tracks for it xD 23:04:56 <ST2> I guess you haven't played on server 23:05:52 <ST2> or #XX or even #97 23:06:03 <ST2> now imagine a mix 23:06:07 <_dp_> I played but that was some time ago 23:08:29 <_dp_> hm, I start to think of some kind of min cost max flow to generate goals xD 23:09:15 <ST2> with multiplier at 100%, min is 75, max is 3500 23:09:25 <ST2> no matter the cargo type 23:10:30 <ST2> if you mess with the cargo type, try to keep it compatible with any newgrf that can be used 23:11:25 <ST2> or even among climates ^^ 23:12:31 <ST2> maybe gets easier if listed on TE_** 23:12:41 <ST2> but not with others 23:12:46 <_dp_> if I ever mess with BB I'll probably just write it from scratch 23:12:58 <_dp_> without gs coz it sucks :p 23:13:05 <ST2> hehe xD 23:13:23 <ST2> has it's limitations... we know :) 23:16:06 *** NGC3982 [~milda@81-228-202-215-no69.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 23:18:01 <ST2> well, actually, and since I had merged BB with functions needed for server controller, I added the BeeReward too, and make it depending on a setting 23:18:12 <ST2> with a multiplier ^^ 23:18:31 <ST2> oh well, we never know when we need to change the server xD 23:19:56 <ST2> but I guess you already know that, since, as you say, lang files are on the saves 23:25:43 <_dp_> not like I read your lang files for long enough) 23:25:53 <_dp_> anyway, time to sleep, bb)) 23:26:08 <ST2> gn8 :) 23:26:57 *** NGC3982 [~milda@81-228-202-215-no69.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:27:07 *** NGC3982 [~milda@81-228-202-215-no69.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 23:27:55 <ST2> _dp_: you have the lang file directly - you didn't read it from saves - I know it 23:28:37 <ST2> aka: time to cut the crap :D 23:28:51 <ST2> but ok, it's not a national secret ^^ 23:36:50 *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@90.74.151.136] has quit [Quit: NoShlomo] 23:40:35 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:47:09 *** Quinch [~oftc-webi@d205-206-102-151.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 23:48:25 <Quinch> Hello, got a few questions if someone feels like answering. 23:48:42 <Quinch> First, how do multihead trains affect reliability? Do more engines decay faster or no? 23:49:04 <ST2> Quinch, it's on channel topic: Don't ask to ask, just ask 23:49:06 <ST2> xD 23:50:40 <ST2> about that, and as far as I know: multiheaded trains sum power, but only the 1st loco handle reliability 23:53:26 <Quinch> Cool, so I can lead with a 95% engine and the rest can be trash? 23:53:44 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-137-142.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 23:54:48 <ST2> well, are you playing with breakdowns ON or OFF? 23:55:01 <Quinch> On. 23:55:13 <Quinch> Otherwise reliability wouldn't be an issue. 23:55:19 <ST2> so, take care of the lead loco 23:55:51 <ST2> well, page to start is here: https://wiki.openttd.org/Trains 23:55:55 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:57:25 *** BarbarianKabbage_ [~oftc-webi@c-98-246-129-49.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Page closed]