Log for #openttd on 3rd December 2016:
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01:15:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i think you missed the optimal beer drinking time by about 2 months
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09:28:21  <andythenorth_> o/
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10:30:13  <Alberth> o/
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11:17:35  <andythenorth> o/
11:18:15  <Alberth> hi hi
11:18:32  <Alberth> found the bugs I  reported yesterday?
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11:22:06  <Wolf01> o/
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11:24:03  <andythenorth> bugs? o_O
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11:26:52  <Wolf01> Why not?
11:28:07  <Alberth> well, more like suggestions to improve on :p
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11:28:58  <Alberth> o/ W
11:38:40  <Wolf01> Mmmmh, no news good news for a week, I should do something
11:39:23  <Wolf01> Like, fixing a bug or fiddling with vehicles
11:41:53  <Wolf01> andythenorth, should we use github feature to track what we want to put in NRT?
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11:44:05  <andythenorth> yes
11:44:08  <andythenorth> or the readme
11:47:23  <Wolf01> The readme is difficult to track
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11:53:20  <Wolf01> This could get really weird, if a grf disables normal road, what should be build in place of it?
11:53:44  <Wolf01> Disables = replace?
11:55:30  <Wolf01> The scenario editor code is whispering strange things to my ear
11:57:40  <Wolf01> lol
11:59:42  <V453000> xd
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12:01:04  <Wolf01> Quak
12:01:23  <frosch123> moi
12:01:28  <Wolf01> frosch123, last feature: guess the build toolbar
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12:02:49  <frosch123> is there a difference to spot between the toolbars?
12:03:19  <Wolf01> No, I just can't figure out why DeleteWindowByClass(WC_BUILD_TOOLBAR); doesn't work
12:03:51  <frosch123> would we allow building tram tracks in se?
12:03:58  <Wolf01> Maybe it's because _cur_roadtype_identifier isn't a pointer
12:04:52  <Wolf01> That's a real question, I would like to be able to build any roadtype in se
12:05:30  <Wolf01> But there's something to understand about it: the introduction dates, availability to real companies etc
12:06:07  <Wolf01> In se you can cheat the date to 2000, build something, go back to 1900
12:06:13  <Wolf01> "cheat"
12:07:29  <frosch123> i think the same applies to funding industries
12:07:44  <Wolf01> Should we allow everything regarldess of the date and let scenario designers the respondibility to not fuck up things, or?
12:08:02  <frosch123> i think it should be consistent to industries, just to make it consistent
12:09:49  <Wolf01> Lol, it was WC_SCEN_BUILD_TOOLBAR not WC_BUILD_TOOLBAR
12:10:21  <Wolf01> But that closes the other toolbars too
12:10:24  <Wolf01> Mmmh
12:12:53  <Wolf01> Docks don't even try to close the toolbar
12:14:48  <Wolf01> Eh, yes... I'm not using the allocatewindow function...
12:19:10  <Wolf01> Still doesn't give a fuck O_o
12:24:17  <Wolf01> Maybe the ID = 0 is not really a good way to find a window
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12:39:38  <Alberth> warn the designer of mistakes on closing the editor? (bit late, perhaps notify him/her in another way too?)
12:44:31  <Wolf01> I'm going to try something for headache, from aspirin to guillotine
12:49:14  <Wolf01> return AllocateWindowDescFront<BuildRoadToolbarWindow>(&_build_road_scen_desc, _cur_roadtype_identifier.Pack() | TRANSPORT_ROAD); <- how bad could it be?
12:52:06  <Wolf01> A lot, because it fits only se :|
12:54:40  <Wolf01> Any idea?
12:55:48  <frosch123> you are missing some shift there
12:55:58  <frosch123> Pack() and Transporttype overlap
12:56:29  <Wolf01> Yes, that's what I thought too, but I'm not convinced that's a good way to do it
12:57:59  <frosch123> why is it different to the in-game stuff?
12:58:22  <Wolf01> In-game it clears the building toolbar explicitly
12:58:52  <Wolf01> But in se, doing that clears every build toolbar and not just road one
12:58:56  <frosch123> in-game uses roadtype_identifier for the window number
12:59:20  <frosch123> that's also werid
12:59:35  <frosch123> RailToolbar uses transport type for window number
12:59:40  <frosch123> i think that makes more sense
12:59:59  <frosch123> not sure whether it needs a different window number for road and tram
13:00:10  <frosch123> but according to rail it does not need different numbers of subtypes
13:00:12  <Wolf01> Yes, I should change it back to transport type and use _cur_roadtype_id
13:02:51  <Wolf01> Done, more clear and works better
13:10:00  <Wolf01> Also fixed the crash, that was really easy
13:21:16  <Wolf01> frosch123, I was wondering, it will be possible to draw layers like "ground, road base, tram base, road, tram, catenary"?
13:22:53  <frosch123> "will be"?
13:22:54  <Wolf01> <- to fix that
13:23:09  <Wolf01> "could be"
13:23:25  <frosch123> ah, that part
13:23:35  <frosch123> yeah, i thought about that, but it does not work with the default sprites
13:23:55  <frosch123> i considered adding special overlay sprites when the roadtype changes
13:23:58  <Wolf01> Who uses default sprites anyway?
13:24:01  <Wolf01> :D
13:24:07  <frosch123> like junctions of dirtroad and normal road
13:24:13  <Wolf01> Yeah
13:24:17  <frosch123> where there is normal round, and then some dirt remains
13:24:31  <Wolf01> That is tricky
13:24:55  <frosch123> well, "catenary continuation" is still on my list, but the rest is definitely "future"
13:25:29  <Wolf01> Because with road+tram you have 2 types in the same tile, with road you have only 1 type and you must check in all the 4 directions what are the other types
13:25:57  <frosch123> with cat. cont. i mean a junction with electrified and non-electrified track, where the catenary is only drawn for those roadbits where the neighboured tile is also electrified
13:25:58  <Wolf01> I think it's the same on catenary
13:26:29  <frosch123> yeah, but with the catenary sprites it works :) but for deault road we lack sprites without grass
13:27:06  <Wolf01> A grf addon?
13:27:14  <frosch123> possibly, but not now :)
13:30:31  <Wolf01> <- andythenorth, do you know what it is?
13:32:22  <V453000> a box with wheely boxes visiting it to carry other boxes
13:32:48  <Wolf01> That's the general definition :D
13:33:05  <frosch123> when wolf is asking andy, it's most likely a lego factory
13:33:15  <Wolf01> Yup
13:33:23  <Wolf01> New factory in China
13:36:02  <Wolf01> He should make a lego economy for FIRS next :P
13:43:26  * Wolf01 browses forums looking for new features to work on
13:54:38  <Wolf01> Well, not many ideas
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14:03:07  <andythenorth> V453000: Amazon Warehouse? o_O
14:03:49  <andythenorth> eh?  Wolf01 ^ wrong person :P
14:04:01  <Wolf01> Lego factory
14:04:05  <andythenorth> orly
14:04:16  <andythenorth> accepts: chemicals.  produces: toys
14:04:22  <andythenorth> no toys cargo in FIRS yet
14:04:32  <Cornelius> the atrocity
14:04:37  <Cornelius> need toyz nao
14:04:54  <Cornelius> full with pba chems ^^
14:06:00  <andythenorth> Wolf01: ideas….adjustable ship capacity
14:06:33  <Wolf01> About NRT?
14:06:49  <andythenorth> not so much
14:07:01  <andythenorth> ships aren’t so road-ish
14:08:16  <frosch123> venezian road type
14:08:56  <frosch123> *venician
14:09:20  <Wolf01> Venetian?
14:09:25  <frosch123> "not compatible with tram"
14:13:18  <andythenorth> movement would work ok though
14:13:23  <andythenorth> canal roads
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14:13:40  <Wolf01> Also not compatible with other roads, must build bridges
14:13:49  <Cornelius> any reddit mod available?
14:14:03  <Eddi|zuHause> why would you assume there are reddit mods here?
14:14:12  <frosch123> try #/r/openttd
14:14:30  <frosch123> they used to have their own channel
14:14:37  <Cornelius> ahhh I see, new to irc and all
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14:14:42  <Cornelius> thanks
14:16:56  <V453000> :)
14:18:40  <andythenorth> har
14:18:47  <andythenorth> what could ships trade capacity for on refit?
14:18:48  <andythenorth> speed?
14:19:08  <frosch123> color?
14:19:13  <andythenorth> lawks
14:19:23  <andythenorth> you can have 25% more capacity, but only in black
14:19:27  <frosch123> payment decay rate?
14:19:33  <andythenorth> if you want red, you get 25% less capacity
14:19:43  <andythenorth> reliability :P
14:19:48  * andythenorth never uses breakdowns though
14:19:52  <frosch123> if 10% of cargo goas off-board, you get paid less
14:21:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd just add running cost
14:21:06  * andythenorth just trying to post-hoc rationalise not having station capacity refits available ;D
14:21:15  <andythenorth> terrible behaviour
14:21:25  <andythenorth> BAD FEATURE is born
14:21:59  <Eddi|zuHause> trading speed is useless, faster speed always wins
14:22:06  <andythenorth> doesn’t it just
14:22:18  <andythenorth> 25% more capcity, 25% less speed = same result, no?
14:22:23  <Eddi|zuHause> no
14:22:28  <andythenorth> allowing variance for distance
14:22:34  <Eddi|zuHause> because you earn less
14:22:39  <andythenorth> oh yes
14:22:48  * andythenorth was only thinking about throughput
14:23:14  <Eddi|zuHause> ship throughput is infinite anyway
14:25:11  <frosch123> if you exchange capacity for running cost, you make the choice purely visual
14:25:16  <frosch123> which may not be a bad thing
14:25:55  <frosch123> though more smaller ships give better station rating
14:26:20  <frosch123> thought that may trade off with purchase cost
14:27:48  <andythenorth> hmm, refitting gets a physicall bigger ship? o_O
14:27:54  <andythenorth> physically *
14:28:11  <frosch123> no, but less need for overlapping ships
14:28:49  <andythenorth> might be better to just spam the buy menu eh?
14:28:52  <Cornelius> is a hit box for ships still on the dev list or not going to happen?
14:29:00  <frosch123> also possible :)
14:29:11  <andythenorth> Cornelius be surprised if that happens
14:29:18  <andythenorth> assuming you mean collision detection
14:29:35  <andythenorth> at least one person has tried to patch it though iirc
14:29:41  <Cornelius> yes if that is the correct term for it
14:29:58  <frosch123> behaves like broodwar unit movement though :)
14:30:13  <Cornelius> dragon ships hehe
14:30:33  <Cornelius> is it also not a big drain on cpu?
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14:36:00  <Alberth> we don't have it so far, so cpu drain is not so bad of that feature :p
14:38:19  <Alberth> frosch123: I am somewhat stuck with scenario tar loading, should that be a simple linear function, or should it be considered to be a form of world generation, or something else?
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14:43:28  <frosch123> i don't think i understand the question
14:44:38  <Alberth>  <-- that basically adds a "save" function for creating a scenario tar file (all very WIP)
14:44:49  <Alberth> it's called with a dirty hack for testing
14:45:09  <andythenorth> :)
14:45:12  <Alberth> obviously, somewhere that scenario tar file needs to be loaded too
14:45:29  <frosch123> currently we have "play scenario" and "play heightmap"
14:45:46  <frosch123> the former has everything set up, while the latter gives you various generation parameters
14:45:53  <Alberth> and 'edit scenario' :p
14:46:35  <Alberth> yeah, but depending on what's exactly in the tar file, we may need to fill in the missing parts
14:47:21  <frosch123> for scenario editor i think loading a traditonal scenario and a new one would just be the same thing
14:47:42  <frosch123> can you change the mapsize with the new scenario format? i think no
14:48:00  <Alberth> I agree, you don't want content that's not in the file
14:48:09  <Alberth> somewhat iirc
14:48:26  <frosch123> i guess it depends on the content then :p
14:48:28  <Alberth> some layers can be resized, others cannot
14:49:47  <Alberth> for example, currently a "town" is just a position and a name
14:50:13  <frosch123> i think heightmaps are special, because you can get them from external sources.
14:50:15  <Alberth> I think it will make a mess with the roads layer, but we'll see
14:50:32  <frosch123> i do not see an "obvious" difference between old and new scenario
14:50:41  <frosch123> so, i would put them into the same folders, and load them the same way
14:50:59  <frosch123> except that after selecting to play a new scenario there may be an additional dialog
14:51:04  <frosch123> to set additional generatio options
14:51:09  <frosch123> similar as to when loadnig a heightmap
14:51:19  <Alberth> makes sense
14:51:52  <Alberth> does it make sense to fold the loading into the world generation code?
14:52:06  <Alberth> or should it be kept separate?
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14:52:50  <frosch123> worldgen is also in various files
14:53:10  <frosch123> there is genworld with the original mapgen, there is tgp for tgp, and there is landscape/industry to genrate parts
14:53:19  <Alberth> it could need eg town generation or industry generation
14:53:32  <frosch123> so, it's already a toolbox, since you can call parts from scenedit
14:53:41  <Alberth> ah, good point
14:53:52  <frosch123> both town and industry generation are available as separate items in scenedit
14:54:10  <frosch123> so, new file for loading new format imho :)
14:54:29  <Alberth> ok, I'll keep it separate then, as it should be either unique code, or just high-level calls to existing functions
14:54:57  <Alberth> we only have 300+ or so in /src already :p
14:55:39  <Alberth> oh, more like 450 :p
14:56:00  <Alberth> ok, thanks, I'll see how that works out
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15:37:57  <Wolf01> frosch123, just for info, are you still using my clone repo?
15:40:41  <frosch123> i only push to
15:40:56  <frosch123> i pulled from various other places
15:41:14  <Wolf01> Ok, because I still getting sync messages from my repo
15:41:34  <frosch123> well, i think it still pulls from it
15:41:42  <frosch123> but i do not merge it, if there is anything new
15:42:20  <frosch123> i can remove the remote, if it bothers you :)
15:43:25  <Wolf01> It was just an info ;)
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16:24:02  <andythenorth> Iron Horse has a downside
16:24:18  <andythenorth> when the theme is ‘one obvious engine choice for any route’
16:24:30  <andythenorth> there is no engine variety :P
16:28:32  <goodger> same is true of SBB Set
16:28:34  <frosch123> i cannot remember any game since autoreplace where i ever had more than 3 engine types in ooperation
16:28:38  <frosch123> so, where is the problem?
16:28:44  <goodger> so many KISSs and TGVs
16:30:14  <andythenorth> it’s better with tank engines; I randomise reversing the graphcs
16:30:43  <andythenorth> ho ho
16:30:59  <andythenorth> I could mess with the lengths, and reverse the tender engines too
16:31:06  <andythenorth> that’s a lot of switches :D
16:31:15  <Alberth> :p
16:31:53  <andythenorth> might be fun
16:31:58  <andythenorth> slower compile though
16:32:43  <Alberth> make -DNO_RANDOMIZE firs
16:33:18  <Alberth> euhm,  iron_horse, of course
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16:44:23  <Lejving> So we have a game freeze lagging like for 1-2sec once or twice every minute... anyone got any sort of idea what can be causing it? or how can one debug it?
16:45:22  <Eddi|zuHause> autosave?
16:46:06  <Lejving> I just tested it, wasn't that
16:46:11  <Lejving> still laggy =(
16:46:39  <Eddi|zuHause> ships? traffic jams?
16:46:47  <Lejving> no ships
16:46:48  <Lejving> no jams
16:46:54  <frosch123> cargodist?
16:47:05  <Lejving> what do you mean by that frosch123 ?
16:47:18  <frosch123> is cargo distribution enabled?
16:48:10  <Lejving> oh there's like 10 of those settings, but dib mode for pax/mail/so on is on manual
16:48:15  <Lejving> but the trains are actually stopped now
16:48:35  <Lejving> so nothing is going on except me moving the camera and it freeze lags every now and then
16:48:49  <Lejving> and it's the same for all users
16:49:14  <frosch123> well, it's probably the server then
16:49:21  <Lejving> I'm offline mode now
16:49:24  <Lejving> not the server
16:49:39  <frosch123> does it also happen if you pause the game, and only scroll?
16:50:04  <Lejving> nope
16:50:05  <Lejving> that seems fine
16:51:07  <Lejving> wow it feels like when you put on your shoes after iceskating
16:51:16  <Lejving> what an epic feeling with the game not freezing every now and then lol!
16:51:32  <Lejving> so liberating
17:08:19  <Lejving> if I turn off all newgrf except for one that crashes the game it still freezes
17:08:40  <Lejving> and it's only when unpaused
17:08:56  <frosch123> gamescripts or ais?
17:09:20  <Lejving> none
17:23:50  <Lejving> ok I found what it was
17:24:19  <frosch123> what? :)
17:24:35  <Lejving> the game didn't like the 169 orders :d
17:24:48  <Lejving> I shall try more debugging see if there's exactly one setting that's causing
17:26:50  <Lejving> yeap speed detection is dun g00fed
17:27:03  <Lejving> I bet speed detection runs every x tick or so, and that's when it freezes
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17:58:32  <Wolf01> Speed detection?
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17:59:45  <V453000> Wolf01: conditional order with speed check
18:05:36  <Wolf01> Is it checked on vehicle details or current speed?
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18:06:28  <Lejving> maximum speed
18:06:30  <Lejving> of the rail
18:08:06  <frosch123> i wouldn't know why anything speed related would take considerable cpu time
18:09:06  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I don't see an use for it, I would do 2 lines, one for goods and one for passengers, but I would use waypoints
18:09:43  <Lejving>
18:09:47  <V453000> it's for conditional order magic Wolf01
18:10:24  <Wolf01> The fuck?
18:10:44  <V453000> openttdcoop using all functions of the game why are you surprised: )
18:10:52  <Lejving> we have another part of the orders just like the one I linked, and then somre more later on the orderlist... total of 36 speed checks
18:12:14  <frosch123> so what? evaluating the speed in orders is same as opening a vehicle gui and looking at the speed in the start/stop bar
18:12:29  <frosch123> so, do your orders contain infinite loops or something?
18:12:40  <Lejving> maybe
18:13:16  <frosch123> i mean if you had cdist enabled, this would screw up the order prediction
18:13:21  <frosch123> but without cdist, i have no idea
18:14:58  <Wolf01> <V453000> openttdcoop using all functions of the game why are you surprised: ) <- I'm surprised to not being able to understand how this feature is used
18:15:23  <V453000> ah
18:15:29  <V453000> well you make a train go to a waypoint
18:15:36  <V453000> but the waypoint has multiple places
18:15:43  <V453000> each place is with different railtype
18:15:53  <V453000> and the engine checks for railtype, and adjusts it's speed
18:15:55  <V453000> it is a nuts thing
18:16:04  <Lejving> are you nuts
18:16:29  <Alberth> in a good way, yes
18:16:32  <Wolf01> Oh, so it's a contraption made upon another contraption
18:16:49  <V453000> yeah it's a combination of two features
18:17:01  <V453000> resulting in opening a whole new dimension of shit to do
18:17:12  <Alberth> :)
18:17:21  <frosch123> oh, i see... the order prediction is also executed when cdist is disabled :p
18:17:33  <Alberth> haha :)
18:17:42  <V453000> is that the cause of this?
18:18:04  <frosch123> very likely, because the order predicition tries all possible results of conditional orders
18:18:14  <V453000> XD
18:18:15  <V453000> OH
18:18:25  <frosch123> so, if you have long chains of conditions, it tries all combinations...
18:18:31  <V453000> is that possible to fix/change?
18:18:50  <frosch123> i would *think* that it is only needed if cdist is enabled
18:18:58  <frosch123> but i am not very familar with that code
18:19:07  <frosch123> GetNextStoppingStation() is the keyword
18:19:58  <Lejving> z0mg
18:21:26  <frosch123> do you have a savegame, so we can verify that it is that function?
18:22:40  <Lejving> hold on
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18:25:38  <Lejving> you got it?
18:26:17  <frosch123> yep
18:31:28  <frosch123> apparently DeleteStaleLinks() is the keyword
18:31:42  <frosch123> it also does some recursive search on orders
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18:37:39  <frosch123> hmm, so the smallmap also shows all the links when cdist is disabled
18:38:01  <frosch123> so, it's no "just skip if cdist disabled " :)
18:38:07  <Lejving> yeah that's what I've been saying all the time!
18:38:14  <Lejving> just listen
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18:38:44  <Lejving> *coughs*
18:39:34  <frosch123> maybe in some other channel :)
18:39:38  <Lejving> haha
18:39:55  <Lejving> read between the lines!
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18:45:58  <frosch123> just delete the "* pickup" stations, and it should be fine
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18:47:08  <Lejving> :O
18:49:24  <frosch123> do you have 119 separate order lists?
18:49:36  <frosch123> or did you forgot sharing orders a few times?
18:49:47  <Lejving> must have been forgeting to share
18:50:09  <frosch123> nah, i miscounted
18:50:24  <Lejving> all network trains should share same order
18:50:55  <frosch123> 1197/1455 are shared
18:51:13  <frosch123> 98 logic trains :p
18:51:25  <V453000> :)
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18:55:38  <Lejving> guess who's the slave frosch123 :D
18:55:46  <Lejving> they make blueprints I get to do the salve work
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19:07:22  <V453000> before blueprints were mainstream
19:07:24  <frosch123> the cpu is the slave
19:11:47  <andythenorth> should FIRS docs be translated?
19:11:57  * andythenorth doesn’t have enough distractions yet
19:24:46  <frosch123> <- boring economy
19:26:45  <Wolf01> Oh my...
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19:32:02  <V453000> =D
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20:11:32  <andythenorth> frosch123: I like how the last industry produces the input for its supplier
20:11:57  <frosch123> :)
20:40:39  <V453000> frosch123: is there any hope to get moar perforamnce for us then? :)
20:41:12  <frosch123> no, that graph means there is no easy solution. someone actually has to understand the algorithm
20:41:19  <V453000> oh :(
20:41:31  <frosch123> which means, unless you can get hold of fonsinchen, nobody is going to check it
20:41:36  <V453000> right
20:41:43  <V453000> that's pretty bad
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20:47:28  <andythenorth> Wolf01: after NRT, ‘flat docks’ o_O
20:48:40  <Wolf01> I think I'll lose myself in state machines, not just OTTD one, but for my game too
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20:59:36  <V453000> do we have some email for fonso?
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21:00:49  <frosch123> forum pm?
21:01:12  <ST2> pidgeon? :P
21:01:34  <V453000> good idea
21:01:40  <V453000> I'll send my personal slug
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22:03:09  <fonsinchen> V453000: I'm here
22:04:14  <fonsinchen> Should I read all that backlog ...
22:04:37  <V453000> hello :)
22:04:47  <V453000> frosch found something weird here
22:04:48  <V453000>
22:05:04  <V453000> trains which are checking for max speed are causing massive lag
22:05:14  <V453000> the problem is, we have cargodist off
22:05:17  <V453000> yet it still affects it
22:05:35  <V453000> [if I understand what frosch said correctly]
22:07:10  <fonsinchen> Hmm, yes, I remember, but why did I do that?
22:07:22  <V453000> shrug :)
22:07:23  <fonsinchen> There was some reason
22:07:43  <V453000> but if cdist is off?
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22:08:22  <fonsinchen> Maybe I can figure it out from the commit log. BTW, what is the order list that triggers this?
22:09:06  <V453000> sec will provide the save
22:09:10  <V453000> yeah the orders are crazy
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22:09:51  <V453000>
22:10:01  <V453000> should be r27680
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22:12:24  <V453000> the idea is that the big train group goes through the whole loop and does whatever necessary
22:12:35  <V453000> the trains have a switch for max speed based on which railtype they drive on
22:13:02  <V453000> that way we can have them make decisions based on where they crossed a waypoint
22:14:21  <Wolf01> I still think you are playing the wrong game
22:14:31  <V453000> not really
22:14:35  <V453000> no other game has this much depth
22:14:51  <V453000> to me at least
22:15:11  <Wolf01> Pfffff, and that F video with combinators and shit?
22:15:25  <V453000> that's just binary bullshit
22:15:33  <V453000> it's amazing, of course
22:16:26  <Wolf01> No, I mean you should design Train Simulator scenarios instead of playing OTTD
22:16:35  <V453000> why?
22:17:07  <Wolf01> Because they are fucked up amazingly too
22:17:16  <V453000> it's different
22:17:30  <V453000> here trains can do all sorts of crazy things :)
22:17:33  <fonsinchen> V453000: one problem with not updating the link graph when cargodist is off is that you can switch it on and off during the game. That leads to all kinds of funny corner cases if you also stop updating the link graph then. Like stale links staying around forever
22:17:47  <V453000> ._.
22:18:14  <Wolf01> There can even do shunting puzzles
22:18:15  <V453000> does that mean this is unfixable?
22:18:25  <fonsinchen> It can probably be dealt with, but I just didn't think it would be that expensive.
22:18:42  <fonsinchen> Tracking down all the corner cases is certainly possible, but annoying.
22:19:04  <V453000> could you please try? :) I would greatly appreciate it, this feature allows us to do a whole new dimension of things
22:19:11  <fonsinchen> Another way would be making that function more efficient.
22:19:22  <fonsinchen> That's likely easier
22:21:45  <fonsinchen> V453000: Also, the link graph is a separate feature you can use without cargodist. You still see the links in the smallmap then.
22:22:07  <fonsinchen> Man those 32bit grfs are large ...
22:23:00  <V453000> but without cargodist, is that actually useful anyhow?
22:23:14  <V453000> like, would it be reasonable to make it a setting? even if non-gui setting
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22:30:21  <fonsinchen> V453000: A setting could be done. But there is this comment "There is potential for optimization here" that I left in DeleteStaleLinks() ,,, and in fact, all of the trains in your game look pretty similar
22:30:59  <V453000> all the trains doing this should be 1 order group
22:31:05  <fonsinchen> So, the overhead could probably be cut down to 1/#trains here if we can just identify trains that are the same
22:31:24  <V453000> that would be great
22:31:40  <fonsinchen> The problem is refitting
22:31:55  <V453000> :d
22:31:58  <V453000> why?
22:34:27  <fonsinchen> Because you don't see that the trains are the same then. That is they are in fact the same but they still carry different cargo types.
22:34:47  <V453000> oh so it isn't just about order sharing
22:34:48  <V453000> I see
22:35:06  <fonsinchen> But, thinking of it, this function should actually abort as soon as it finds one train that hits the link
22:35:27  <fonsinchen> And if all the trains are doing the same, that should be the first one it checks
22:35:36  <fonsinchen> ... unless there is some other bug
22:35:41  <V453000> :D
22:41:14  <V453000> !pwq
22:41:16  <V453000> !pw
22:41:18  <V453000> eh
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22:51:23  <fonsinchen> V453000: Well there is this one huge order list with tons and tons of trains following it and then some other order list with very few vehicles that visit their links very rarely
22:51:52  <V453000> right
22:52:06  <fonsinchen> whenever that latter link times out it goes and checks all of the big order list in order to see if one of the vehicles there might ever visit the link that's timing out
22:52:10  <fonsinchen> That takes forever
22:52:38  <V453000> :0
22:53:40  <fonsinchen> And yes, there is already an optimization that first checks if both stations are actually in the order list
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22:55:53  <fonsinchen> V453000: Can you point me to the vehicles that server the links that are timing out in your game?
22:56:16  <V453000> server links?
22:58:07  <fonsinchen> no, links between stations. But I can probably figure that out myself ..
22:58:25  <V453000> I'm not sure how to obtain it
22:58:36  <V453000> I have no clue which thing is actually causing the problem
23:04:01  <fonsinchen> TownCDrop to TownCGetYeti
23:04:42  <V453000> that's where they drop  things and go obtain yetis
23:04:50  <V453000> would "unload and leave empty" order help?
23:04:53  <fonsinchen> Nuke preventer #2 does that
23:05:05  <fonsinchen> through implicit orders
23:05:12  <V453000> O_O
23:05:12  <fonsinchen> probably randomly
23:05:19  <V453000> I don't get it at all :D
23:06:04  <fonsinchen> V453000:  all other trains also have those two stations in their list, but not as subsequent stops
23:06:05  <Wolf01> Lol V
23:06:23  <V453000> ooo
23:06:36  <fonsinchen> V453000: It evaluates all those conditions to see if it needs to keep the link alive that the nuke preventer created
23:06:41  <V453000> so removing the nuke preventer trains with implicit orders will help?
23:06:53  <fonsinchen> Yes
23:06:57  <fonsinchen> in this case
23:06:57  <V453000> :D
23:07:08  <V453000> but it won't solve it entirely right?
23:08:12  <fonsinchen> One obvious optimization would be to sort the order lists by the number of vehicles that follow them.
23:08:34  <fonsinchen> So, we check the few vehicles first and if they hit the link, we're done.
23:09:18  <fonsinchen> The more general solution would be to figure out that all those trains are actually the same and we need to only check one of them
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23:11:39  <fonsinchen> Nah, even better
23:12:01  <fonsinchen> We first check the first vehicle of each order list, then the second of each order list, etc.
23:12:29  <fonsinchen> If one vehicle of some order list hits the link we're very likely to check it early
23:13:01  <fonsinchen> ... unless it's the one vehicle that carries a different cargo than all others and sits at position 1432 :(
23:13:21  <V453000> jesus fuck I removed some nuke preventers and there is 73 more of them XD
23:17:14  <Wolf01> Lol, the only grf I'm missing is yeti extended :E
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23:22:28  <V453000> JustGetIt? :P
23:23:04  <Wolf01> I'm already getting it
23:23:09  <Wolf01> :P
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23:25:56  <Wolf01> Shit, those cities
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23:29:16  <V453000> that's the easiest thing on this game :P
23:29:24  <V453000> just build road, let it grow
23:30:35  <V453000> fonsinchen: ok want a save without the nuke protection trains?
23:31:15  <V453000> I think it's a bit better
23:31:39  <V453000>
23:32:25  <V453000> hm idk now it happened quite similarly
23:32:28  <V453000> well, here it is :)
23:32:34  <V453000> I have to go sleep, it's late
23:32:55  <V453000> will be around tomorrow :) and thank you very much for looking into it, it's amazing
23:47:16  <fonsinchen> After you remove the nuke protectors you still have to wait until all their links time out

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