Log for #openttd on 25th July 2017:
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08:17:15  <Wolf01> o/
08:20:01  <__ln__> hello italy, the country surrounded by vatican and san marino
08:22:13  <Wolf01> Don't spread false informations :P
08:23:39  <__ln__> entirely non-false all of it
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12:27:29  <__ln__> end of discussion
12:29:18  <__ln__> is there some neural network based advanced irc bot that could be fed with all the lines spoken by T*** and Bjarni? so we could resurrect them on the channel.
12:29:59  <__ln__> maybe two separate bots though, because the hybrid of those two gentlemen would be maybe too extreme.
12:30:19  <Wolf01> I used megahal
12:31:52  <__ln__> isn't that pretty old and outputs nonsense?
12:32:56  <Wolf01> Some gibberish because of the recursive sentence composition, but it was funny
12:34:21  <__ln__> the minimum for funny has increased over the years
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14:24:46  <Alberth> o/
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16:18:35  <andythenorth_> o/
16:21:19  <Alberth> o/
16:21:22  <andythenorth_> Hi
16:22:49  * andythenorth_ puzzling trains still :p
16:23:43  <andythenorth_> Current challenge: I don't like that engines get longer then shorter
16:23:53  <andythenorth_> According to realism
16:25:02  <andythenorth_> e.g
16:26:49  <Alberth> better than the other way around, at least
16:26:50  <andythenorth_> One option would be to OP the steam engines and nerf the diesels/electrics
16:27:39  <Alberth> add some cargo-part to the shorter engine?
16:27:47  <Alberth> nuts does that afaik
16:28:19  <Alberth> could be useful for supplies ;)
16:28:20  <andythenorth_> I could multiple-unit the diesels/electrics
16:28:27  <andythenorth_> E.g the chinook
16:28:44  <Alberth> ah, good train, that
16:28:55  <andythenorth_> it's even realism until 1980 or so
16:29:25  <Alberth> for realists, stop playing at 1980 :)
16:29:42  <andythenorth_> I am going to increase the unrealism
16:30:04  <Alberth> sounds good to me :)
16:30:10  * andythenorth_ is handicapped by knowing too much about rl trains
16:30:27  <andythenorth_> V does not have that problem :p
16:30:35  <Alberth> :)
16:30:54  <Alberth> it takes time to unlearn all the wrong things you know :)
16:32:02  <Alberth> I am not bothered by engines getting shorter tbh
16:32:31  <Alberth> At some point I need to make a new train for the next gen wagons anyway
16:33:46  <Alberth> afk
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16:45:20  <Wolf01> o/
16:53:15  <andythenorth_> Hi wolf
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16:59:10  <Wolf01> Quak
16:59:16  <frosch123> bau
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17:45:43  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27891 trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt (2017-07-25 19:45:37 +0200 )
17:45:44  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
17:45:45  <DorpsGek> spanish: 29 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
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17:50:55  <andythenorth_> So engines:
17:51:09  <andythenorth_> - fast pax (high hp, low TE)
17:51:40  <andythenorth_> - small fast pax (same but small, for branchlines)
17:52:08  <andythenorth_> - large freight (low speed, high TE)
17:52:25  <andythenorth_> - medium freight (same but smaller)
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17:53:12  <andythenorth_> - railcars 8/8 single unit refittable to pax/express
17:53:48  <andythenorth_> railcars fail in current IH it's usually more profitable to use an engine & coaches
17:53:59  <andythenorth_> dunno why
17:56:25  <Alberth> railcars are the combined passenger/mail wagons?
17:57:50  <andythenorth_> nah, they are the small diesel trains
17:57:54  <andythenorth_> Slammer etc
18:04:58  <andythenorth_> Should train progression provide more capacity per unit length? Or constant?
18:05:24  <andythenorth_> Because we don't have consist management, both options suck :)
18:07:13  <Alberth> simplest is probably only needing to do engine replacement
18:07:30  <Alberth> which would suggest we keep the same wagons (forever)
18:08:21  <andythenorth_> I'm not sure what the best schema is
18:08:59  <andythenorth_> Road Hog increases speed, power and capacity per generation, but lengths are constant
18:09:18  <Alberth> making jumps in wagons would be another option, ie a new wagon with more capacity for a new engine
18:09:48  <andythenorth_> it's relatively trivial to scrap some RVs if a route is over-provided after a vehicle upgrade
18:09:58  <Alberth> pushing the user to make a full replacement
18:10:23  <andythenorth_> Yes, my intent is matching wagon and engine upgrades
18:10:48  <andythenorth_> At least for 3 out of 4 generations
18:11:15  <andythenorth_> I guess if capacity is suddenly too high, scrap a few trains?
18:11:36  <andythenorth_> But then deliveries are much less frequent
18:11:55  <andythenorth_> 300t train > 400t after upgrade
18:11:56  <Alberth> I think it hardly matters, as long as you're not running in the red
18:12:28  <andythenorth_> RVs, a 25% capacity upgrade has much less impact
18:13:11  <Alberth> basically, the mass-replacements of default track types have that problem, and afaik, people just mostly copy/paste the entire setup and train fleet to the new track-type
18:13:43  <Alberth> they don't bother fine-tuning, I think
18:14:11  <Alberth> for default industries it's not so bad though, as industries will grow and fill the gap
18:14:16  <andythenorth_> Arguably the best upgrade for player is higher capacity and _shorter_ :p
18:14:28  <andythenorth_> better track utilisation
18:14:42  <Alberth> sounds fair
18:14:59  <andythenorth_> FIRS doesn't grow industries in same way as default eh :p
18:15:08  <Alberth> faster may actually need more track than slow
18:15:24  <andythenorth_> Really?
18:15:27  <andythenorth_> :)
18:15:28  <Alberth> even though fast is much more interesting to play with :p
18:15:44  <Alberth> it's the case on RL high-ways afaik
18:15:54  <andythenorth_> Stopping distance
18:16:03  <Alberth> yep, likely
18:16:24  <andythenorth_> What's the 'remove wagons' thing on auto-replace?
18:16:33  <andythenorth_> It's quite magic
18:16:46  <andythenorth_> Anyone know what it does?
18:16:47  <Alberth> it is indeed
18:17:05  <andythenorth_> It seems to understand brake vans:p
18:17:17  <Alberth> iirc it removes wagons to compensate for the longer engine
18:18:04  <andythenorth_> It always seems to have a good result
18:18:11  <Alberth> and I am not surprised if it would understand cabeese things :)
18:18:28  * andythenorth_ wonders about a 'maintain capacity' option
18:19:02  <andythenorth_> bbl, losing signal :(
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18:19:52  <Alberth> much of the auto-replace code should be changed into something that works better, in some way, I think
18:20:40  <Alberth> it feels as too much ad-hoc additions
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18:28:03  <frosch123> you mean template-based autoreplace? :)
18:28:44  <Alberth> seems like a nicer solution, doesn't it?
18:29:16  <Alberth> but so far, I have sufficient problems with FioOpenFile :p
18:29:23  <frosch123> yep, same for construction
18:29:39  <frosch123> build train from template, instead of copy, delete orders, add new orders
18:29:56  <Alberth> I do like the original low-level complexity though
18:30:00  <frosch123> s/copy/clone/
18:30:36  <Alberth> much simpler to get into the game, without the need to make templates etc first
18:30:45  <frosch123> well, when FioOpenFile is done, maybe we can finally add some cache for tar, newgrf and scenario scanning :)
18:30:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think autoreplace actually knows about brake vans, but it takes away the wagons not from the end, but from the beginning, i think
18:31:29  <Alberth> many tycoon-ish games connect orders etc also to consist, so you have to setup a lot of stuff to get one train running
18:32:49  <Alberth> that's how myths are born :)
18:34:44  <Wolf01> <frosch123> you mean template-based autoreplace? :) <- transport fever has it and I don't like it the way is implemented, maybe we could do it a lot better
18:36:29  <Wolf01> Also, I thought it was like... dead. Instead they are about to throw out this good patch
18:38:02  <frosch123> Wolf01: there is a maintained patch on forums
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18:40:46  <Wolf01> Andy then... then what?
18:41:07  <andythen_> Flakey connections
18:41:16  <andythen_> On a phone :p
18:41:47  <frosch123> did you try turning wifi off :p
18:42:37  <frosch123>
18:43:29  <andythen_> Rather too accurate :p
18:43:45  <andythen_> But wifi is free, 4g costs £
18:44:53  <andythen_> If wagons were 2x 4/8, then 8/8, that might nearly work
18:45:07  <andythen_> I have to abandon realism though eh
18:46:05  <andythen_> Very common uk/european freight wagons have 2 axles and should be 6/8 long
18:49:15  <andythen_> realism must die eh :(
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18:56:18  <Wolf01> Yeah
19:11:25  <andythen_> 6/8 kind of looks good though :|
19:11:34  <andythen_> It's totally illogical
19:11:55  <andythen_> Logic > aesthetics?
19:12:07  <andythen_> Or aesthetics > logic?
19:12:19  <frosch123> well, fake the length of the last wagon to be either 4/8 or 8/8
19:12:33  <frosch123> so that trains always fit whole tiles
19:12:51  <andythen_> Considered that, but sometimes it has to be 2/8 no?
19:13:06  <frosch123> no, then the previous would be 8/8
19:13:45  <andythen_> Magic wagons might solve it
19:14:13  <frosch123> or use dual-headed engines
19:14:22  <frosch123> with variable length cabage
19:14:46  <frosch123> actually, i think we would have to patch that first :p
19:14:58  <frosch123> for some reason dual-headed engines are neglected
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19:23:01  <andythen_> I dropped dual headed due to crazy 3-part vehicles for 10/8 length
19:23:26  <andythen_> Not sure that's needed :p
19:23:57  <andythen_> Can dual-headed be abused for auto-caboose? :p
19:24:17  <Wolf01> That was my proposal too
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19:36:18  <andythenorth_> How often do 6/8 vehicles hit integer or half-integer lengths?
19:36:43  <andythenorth_> 18/8 is 2.25?
19:37:10  <frosch123> andythenorth_: V uses dual-headed for auto-caboose
19:37:46  <andythenorth_> The rear sprites can be separate?
19:37:57  <frosch123> apparently
19:38:05  <andythenorth_> Presumably 'caboose' = slug tail?
19:38:39  <frosch123> nah, there is some weird push-train
19:38:48  <frosch123> flat wagon as head, real engine at back
19:39:04  <frosch123> probably there is some joke
19:39:07  <frosch123> but i did not get it :p
19:39:51  <frosch123> 6/8 vehicles can match a tile, be 2/8 short of a tile or 2/8 longer than a tile
19:40:01  <frosch123> there are only three options
19:40:26  <andythenorth_> 12/8 is 1.5 o_O
19:41:15  <frosch123> hint: any 16-multiple of a wagon will always fit a whole tile :p
19:41:33  <frosch123> for the rest you need the greates-common-divider of train length and 16
19:45:27  <Eddi|zuHause> greater fun if length is a prime number ;)
19:49:00  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm... i have a train deadlock in cities skylines
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19:54:38  <andythenorth_> ach so 12/8 is 0.75 :p
19:54:47  <andythenorth_> silly andythenorth
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