Log for #openttd on 23rd September 2017:
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02:19:16  <supermop_home>
02:19:30  <supermop_home> should the older steam trucks pull fewer trailers?
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06:21:51  <andythenorth> moin
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09:32:58  <andythenorth> V453000: horse is sick again
09:33:04  <andythenorth> such predictable progression
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10:29:49  <V453000> XD
10:33:03  <andythenorth> engine ‘Growler’ is replaced by upgraded growler 2
10:33:16  <andythenorth> what shall I call it?
10:33:18  <andythenorth> Super Growler?
10:33:21  <andythenorth> Snarler?
10:33:25  <andythenorth> Go Growler?
10:33:30  <andythenorth> Growler 2?
10:35:50  <V453000> does that matter right now? :)
10:36:13  <andythenorth> yeah, names are MOST IMPORTANT
10:36:17  <andythenorth> funny thing
10:36:22  <andythenorth> real-life name for this train
10:36:24  <andythenorth> guess what?
10:36:40  <V453000> rewlorg
10:36:51  <andythenorth> SLUG
10:36:52  <V453000> relworg
10:36:58  <V453000> :D wat
10:38:22  <andythenorth> iz
10:38:32  <andythenorth>
10:39:16  <V453000> rite
10:40:15  <V453000> no new forum posts, project must be dead
10:41:25  <V453000> k finish last tropic plant, go
10:42:02  <andythenorth> iz dead
10:46:29  <V453000> I'll do toyland super fast I think
10:46:44  <V453000> is it too much if trees look like literal shit?
10:46:56  <V453000> bananas hates just porn and military right?
10:48:49  <andythenorth> poo emoji is valid socially
10:51:15  <andythenorth> Super Slug then?
10:51:18  <andythenorth> then Horse has Slug
10:51:20  <andythenorth> winning
10:51:21  <andythenorth> most valid
10:52:15  <V453000> yeah now even personally face-animated shit emoji
10:52:27  <V453000> people looking like shit in real time
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10:54:23  <Wolf01> Moin
10:55:18  <andythenorth> most horse train names start with letter 's'
10:55:19  <andythenorth> why?
10:55:46  <V453000> shit
10:55:49  <V453000> is fish
10:58:06  <V453000> hm nuts names are pretty well spread
10:58:13  <V453000> not discriminating letters
10:58:21  <V453000> -> iz perfect set
11:00:19  <andythenorth> horse 2
11:00:22  <andythenorth> will be better
11:00:27  <andythenorth> competition
11:02:40  <V453000> !
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11:32:37  <andythenorth> Slug it is then
11:32:39  <andythenorth> and it’s ID 1000
11:32:42  <andythenorth> so special
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12:01:41  <Wolf01> mmh
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12:08:37  <Wolf01> argoneus, Alkel_U3: since you have stellaris and it's discounted on steam, it is worth the purchase?
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12:31:28  <supermop_home> ugh so last night I was kept awake thinking about special liveries to draw for buses
12:32:55  <supermop_home> andythenorth:
12:33:03  <supermop_home> old timey road trains - too long?
12:33:49  <Alkel_U3> Wolf01: I haven't played it yet but I've been told by many that it's pretty good
12:34:55  <Alkel_U3> though it's Paradox's game, it's prorbably gonna suffer from the DLC syndrome :-)
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12:37:37  <Alberth> o/
12:42:27  <andythenorth> supermop_home: looks about right
12:42:48  <andythenorth> tractor unit could use a bit of work, needs to look more grunty
12:42:53  <andythenorth> but also older
12:43:06  <andythenorth> I’d snick the cab back 1px
12:43:08  <supermop_home> seems wrong for the steam tractor to pull same amount as petrol and diesel truck
12:43:15  <supermop_home> hm
12:43:15  <andythenorth> is it same speed?
12:43:17  <andythenorth> or slower?
12:43:18  <supermop_home> no
12:43:26  <supermop_home> tractor is 1870-ish
12:43:31  <supermop_home> and quite slow
12:43:39  <andythenorth> slower, same capacity is fine
12:43:58  <supermop_home> steam truck is 1900 ish, black truck is 1910 or 15
12:44:42  <supermop_home> maybe it was 1870, 1890, 1910, 1930?
12:45:31  <supermop_home> with the rigid trucks, the first petrol truck is weaker and hauls less than the steam truck, but is cheaper and faster
12:45:51  <supermop_home> then the following diesel trucks are all stronger, faster, etc
12:46:26  <supermop_home> road train loses the small and fast vs slow and large split because they are all large
12:48:32  <Wolf01> <Alkel_U3> though it's Paradox's game, it's prorbably gonna suffer from the DLC syndrome :-) <- yeah, that's why I would like to wait until they end releasing the DLCs, but the digital anniversary edition is tempting
12:49:12  <Alkel_U3> They still sell separate DLCs for Europa Universalis IV if I'm not mistaken
12:49:32  <Alkel_U3> or is there a broad package already?
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12:51:42  <Wolf01> The digital anniversary comes with all the released DLCs, EUIV has the "collection" package which comes with everything and with 58% discount is at 117€
12:53:28  <Alkel_U3> That is some price. I'd rather buy a beer keg.
12:54:07  <andythenorth> supermop_home: first generation sometimes lacks a clear pattern for evolution eh
12:56:16  <supermop_home> well the petrol tractor will have similar power to the petrol truck. if player wants to force it up hills with three trailers that is their choice
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12:58:32  <supermop_home> also ive found when playing with mountainous TAI villages and ViV GS, could use a late game tiny bus
13:00:40  <argoneus> Wolf01: stellaris is great
13:00:48  <argoneus> but you either need the major dlc or play with someone who has them
13:00:59  <argoneus> utopia > synthetic dawn > leviathan in order of importance
13:01:01  <argoneus> the rest is whatever
13:02:20  <Wolf01> What is the gameplay? Like endless space or more like homeworld?
13:02:29  <argoneus> I haven't played either wew
13:02:35  <argoneus> it's realtime
13:02:40  <argoneus> you have a planet that you develop
13:02:47  <argoneus> and you can explore other planets and send stuff there
13:02:51  <argoneus> I'd compare it to
13:02:51  <argoneus> hmm
13:02:54  <argoneus> civ without turns?
13:03:02  <argoneus> oh
13:03:05  <argoneus> sins of a solar empire maybe
13:03:16  <argoneus> so homeworld-ish I guess
13:03:19  <Wolf01> Oh, ok
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13:11:06  <andythenorth> such
13:11:10  <Wolf01> Quak
13:11:15  <andythenorth> roster nearly done eh
13:11:19  <andythenorth> just need some stupid fast trains now
13:11:39  <andythenorth> fastest train there is 125mph, needs a gen 6 at 140mph or 165mph
13:11:56  <supermop_home> locomotive or EMU>?
13:12:16  <frosch123> hoi
13:12:28  <frosch123> finally an exciting mail to info@
13:12:44  <andythenorth> :o
13:12:56  <andythenorth> supermop_home: EMU definitely, or bi-mode
13:13:03  <andythenorth> loco, maybe, we’d have to invent it
13:13:15  <supermop_home> put pointy end on the cargo sprinter
13:13:16  <andythenorth> EMU could be class 800 or pendolino or so
13:13:32  <supermop_home> replace the container with a passenger coach
13:13:33  <Wolf01> <frosch123> finally an exciting mail to info@ <- a cease and desist?
13:14:35  <frosch123> no, compile farm activity
13:15:25  * andythenorth bbl
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13:26:28  <Arveen> is there a option to make the ottd window non-resizable ?
13:26:55  <Wolf01> Fullscreen
13:27:03  <Arveen> while beeing windowed
13:28:20  <Wolf01> I think not. What is the problem with resizing the window?
13:29:39  <Arveen> I want to stream it and want to avoid accidently resizes
13:30:02  <Arveen> so it's always in fitting  ratio
13:43:12  <frosch123> is the horse roster a representation of andy's mind? the engines start with R names and slowly transition into V names
13:43:34  <Alberth> :)
13:44:05  <Alberth> doesn't seem likely that andy moves to 32bpp :p
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14:04:29  <andythenorth> frosch123: quite plausible
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14:08:41  <andythenorth> frosch123: railtype in depot, TMWFTLB?
14:08:50  * andythenorth has engines with variable power by railtype
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14:13:06  <frosch123> andythenorth: when do you build trains in a depot?
14:13:34  <frosch123> it fails for all advanced use cases which you are dreaming of :) like autoreplace, consist replace, ...
14:13:45  <frosch123> everything that builds trains without a specific depot
14:13:56  <andythenorth> yup ok
14:14:26  <andythenorth> so cb23?
14:14:50  <andythenorth> even that might be TMWFTLB
14:18:31  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I should figure out how to play minecraft split screen on pc
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14:31:54  <Wolf01> I don't think the pc supports the splitscreen mode even if there are all the settings :(
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17:52:41  <Wolf01> I think I found the "will of go outside", now I need to find the "will of remain outside"
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18:09:59  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing good ever happened outside
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18:57:19  <andythenorth> V453000: Horse all fucked again
18:57:20  <andythenorth> gg
18:59:13  <V453000> XD wtf
18:59:45  <V453000> honestly lately I am realizing that making plans is all great and stuff, but to a point
18:59:55  <V453000> like, I have a very solid plan with all details
19:00:10  <V453000> but it's likely that the details are going to change anyway when I start making graphics
19:00:16  <V453000> so I stop with planning for now
19:00:25  <V453000> I have the concept, vehicles 16/8, wagons 8/8
19:00:35  <V453000> now just make graphics and adapt on the fly
19:00:41  <V453000> maybe you can consider doing something similar
19:00:47  <V453000> if you feel like drawing 2020 engine, well, just do it :)
19:00:49  <V453000> if not, meh
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19:04:04  <V453000> I thought I will fuck with toyland fast and easy
19:04:18  <V453000> trying to make all trees look like the plastic balls in kids playing courts
19:04:29  <V453000> shit failed :D
19:04:32  <V453000> need to do something more proper
19:06:03  <V453000>
19:06:56  <V453000> iz bad
19:07:00  <andythenorth> V453000: do brio trees
19:07:20  <andythenorth>
19:07:41  <andythenorth> also
19:07:56  <V453000> well that's basically how brix trees look in general :D
19:07:56  <V453000> no
19:07:59  <andythenorth> or such
19:08:04  <V453000> I'm thinknig mushrooms atm
19:08:06  <andythenorth> oops bad paste
19:08:27  <andythenorth>
19:09:27  <frosch123> just rename the climate to australia, use the regular brix temperte sprites, and put them upside down
19:09:58  * andythenorth has length problems :P
19:10:18  <frosch123> don't worry, diameter is more important
19:10:25  <andythenorth> apparently
19:10:31  <frosch123> (i think i already said that the other day)
19:10:33  <andythenorth> why are wagon speed limits?
19:10:44  <andythenorth> why don’t I cb36 the engine speed instead?
19:11:24  <V453000> I was actually considering doing trees which look like tree roots underground
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19:11:32  <V453000> basically upside down but looking from the bottom
19:12:29  <frosch123> <- those?
19:13:02  <frosch123> <- most weird tree in general
19:13:40  <frosch123> <- also, mix in some giraffes
19:13:41  <andythenorth> serious trees
19:15:17  <V453000> yeah what the fuck it's trees
19:15:25  <V453000> I'm thinking more about mushrooms with eyes
19:15:29  <V453000> possibly mouths
19:15:46  <frosch123> <- trees also have mouths
19:16:34  <frosch123> <- but sure, you can also go the mushroom route :p
19:17:18  <frosch123> <- ...
19:17:55  <frosch123> damn... "gartenzwerg pilz" definitely gives some disturbing images
19:20:40  <V453000> XD
19:25:09  <V453000> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
19:25:15  <V453000> might need to think about this for a bit
19:25:20  * andythenorth also
19:25:24  <V453000> but shrooms, snails and other random shit might work
19:26:03  <andythenorth> why I haz 6/8 small engine?
19:26:06  <andythenorth> is problems
19:27:07  <V453000> that's fine just add a 2/8 tail :P
19:27:42  <andythenorth> such ideas
19:28:13  <andythenorth> or more lengths of wagons
19:28:29  <andythenorth> but multiple lengths + shit ton of extra generations to keep V453000 happy
19:28:34  <andythenorth> = lot of wagons :|
19:33:47  <V453000> XD wtf.
19:37:02  <andythenorth> seriously considering wagons where speed limit changes at some year
19:37:07  <andythenorth> instead of spamming buy menu
19:37:30  <andythenorth> main thing is graphics don’t need to change, so why new vehicle?
19:38:30  <V453000> I really don't see the point of wagon speed limit gameplay wise
19:38:39  <frosch123> why limit speed at all? just limit engine power?
19:38:48  <V453000> just makes all design of engines invalid because power and TE suddenly only matters
19:39:03  <V453000> well poorly accelerating trains are a hell to play with imo
19:39:13  <V453000> like Lev4
19:40:58  <andythenorth> if speed isn’t limited, just choose fastest engine
19:41:06  <andythenorth> it’s a one-engine newgrf
19:41:14  <andythenorth> like NARS 2 and so
19:41:30  <andythenorth> I don’t mind what players do btw, they can turn limits off
19:42:07  * andythenorth seriously considers dropping wagon speed limits
19:42:38  <andythenorth> but then also…why have wagon generations?
19:42:42  <andythenorth> always unlimited
19:42:53  <andythenorth> so no need for upgrades
19:43:52  <andythenorth> hmm
19:45:51  <V453000> quite the opposite
19:46:03  <andythenorth> explains?
19:46:12  <V453000> if you limit the speed, all trains will be running at, say, 100kmh ... so it only matters how fast it gets to that speed
19:46:14  <V453000> which is just power
19:46:29  <andythenorth> nuts is just one wagon, right?
19:46:32  <V453000> while if you have all variables of power, TE, and speed, you are making a decision between all of them
19:46:33  <V453000> yes
19:46:35  * andythenorth only saw one last time played nuts
19:46:38  <andythenorth> ok
19:46:42  <V453000> more wagons is just a visual thing really
19:46:51  <V453000> unless they differ in loading speed and capacity drastically
19:46:59  <andythenorth> is eye candy
19:47:07  <andythenorth> always use fastest engine
19:47:11  <andythenorth> just add moar if needed
19:47:11  <V453000> eye candy can be 1 wagon with random switches all over the place
19:47:35  <V453000> well if the fastest engine is weak enough in power, saturated network will always do better with stronger trains
19:48:09  <andythenorth> always use AsiaStar for coal
19:48:56  <V453000> yes because SH40 is too slow/not strong enough in comparison
19:49:14  <V453000> because vanilla is just basically 1 linear progression without classes
19:51:16  <andythenorth> V453000: in nuts, why not always use The Ultimate?
19:51:19  <andythenorth> it’s pretty ultimate
19:51:50  <andythenorth> seems boss for coal
19:53:02  <V453000> in that case, wagon connect rules
19:53:06  <V453000> can only haul express wagons
19:53:08  <andythenorth> oh that’s wtf :)
19:53:12  <V453000> which isn't that great of a feature
19:53:24  <andythenorth> also you’re changing wagon capacity with engine?
19:53:24  <V453000> in my defence it's quite common in other grfs
19:53:29  <V453000> but doesn't mean it's great
19:53:30  <andythenorth> you went full on wtf
19:53:32  <andythenorth> ok
19:53:34  <V453000> yeah probably
19:53:44  <V453000> there's a shitload of switches all over the place
19:53:47  <andythenorth> I considered that to force express / freight split instead of wagon speeds
19:53:59  <andythenorth> but I ruled it out without trying it
19:54:02  <andythenorth> is good or bad?
19:54:20  <andythenorth> be quite easy “this engine can’t haul freight"
19:54:21  <V453000> you mean changing wagon stats or connection rules?
19:54:25  <andythenorth> connection rules
19:54:32  <V453000> I'm not sure honestly
19:54:41  <V453000> I think if you don't over do it like in nuts, it's really fine
19:54:52  <V453000> like simple express/freight separation is totally ok
19:55:16  <andythenorth> I can’t turn it off?
19:55:17  <V453000> but in nuts you have monorail wagons can't fit to those engines, those different monorail wagons can't fit to the other engines, etc
19:55:19  <V453000> no
19:55:21  <andythenorth> hmm
19:55:25  <V453000> only with parameter
19:55:25  <andythenorth> NEED PARAMETER
19:55:48  <V453000> but if you do it reasonably, it's not the end of the world
19:55:55  <V453000> honestly it works perfectly fine in URKS
19:55:57  <V453000> UKRS
19:56:07  <V453000> you have eurostar or how it's called there, 289km/h, pax only
19:56:08  <V453000> is fine
19:56:22  <andythenorth> so how do I have totally boss coal train in NUTS?
19:56:42  <V453000> the question I have been asking myself recently is why to actually have this difference, it's basically realism and awesomeness in terms of realism
19:56:49  <V453000> you don't have a totally boss train in NUTS
19:56:56  <V453000> some are faster but have less capacity (maglev)
19:57:15  <V453000> some are slower but more capacity and amazing acceleration (rail strong/superstrong)
19:57:24  <andythenorth> maglec is quite boss
19:57:25  <V453000> it took many months to balance it out
19:57:28  <andythenorth> maglev *
19:57:40  <V453000> maglev is boss but 22 cargo per 8/8 is low
19:57:48  <andythenorth> oh yeah
19:57:49  <andythenorth> hmm ok
19:58:17  <andythenorth> helps, but doesn’t solve my problem
19:58:20  <V453000> capacity is a good way to balance things out
19:58:24  <andythenorth> I assumed you just didn’t enforce classes
19:58:27  <andythenorth> but you do
19:58:30  <andythenorth> maybe we’re wrong
19:58:33  <V453000> I understand because you are keeping them on the same railtype
19:58:34  <andythenorth> both
19:58:48  <V453000> but you can look at just rail vehicles in nuts
19:58:56  <V453000> there is superstrong, strong, medium and fast
19:58:58  <V453000> all with same wagons
19:59:28  <V453000> I can show you 4 networks which will be different, and each of them will only have 1 answer to best train
19:59:34  <V453000> and each of these answers will be different
20:00:37  <V453000> superstrong will rule with long trains, strong will rule with ultra short trains, medium will be best somewhere in the middle/universally for generally unspecific networks, and fast will be good only if your network doesn't have dense traffic, no short curves, not many uphills(especially merging junctions on uphill), etc
20:00:55  <V453000> you don't need to balance "all of the engines are equal on a straight track"
20:01:11  <V453000> that would mean the player chooses based on random  taste, which isn't that interesting
20:01:48  <V453000> the other classes in nuts add to this, not necessarily be competitive
20:02:18  <V453000> of course, only a handful of players know the differences, I even dare to say that nobody knows about the uses for every single class in nuts
20:03:09  <Eddi|zuHause> why would they? everyone has their favourite style of network
20:03:25  <Eddi|zuHause> so naturally he will favour the engines that excell in that network
20:03:37  <Eddi|zuHause> and sorta ignore the rest
20:03:58  <V453000> most expert players actually like to build differently every game
20:04:02  <Eddi|zuHause> (assuming that they actually care)
20:04:03  <V453000> just because of fun from variety
20:04:13  <V453000> with nuts or without it
20:04:24  <V453000> doing the same over and over again for many years isn't very exciting
20:04:41  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, "most" is prbably exaggerated
20:04:51  <V453000> depends how you define expert :P
20:05:01  <Eddi|zuHause> and they probably change *something*, not necessarily *everything*
20:05:06  <V453000> obviously
20:05:14  <V453000> but it's enough to justify any other train class
20:08:01  <Eddi|zuHause> well, there are probably loads of players who would be considered "expert" by people totally outside your "target audience"
20:09:28  <V453000> I'm not saying everyone has to use all various possible network types all the time?
20:10:07  <V453000> I was just trying to say that even the people who build with large variety don't really know the maximum possible utilization of all nuts trains, although several of them are very close
20:10:37  <andythenorth> 1860-2020 is a terrible idea in a grf
20:10:44  * andythenorth should stop
20:11:00  <Eddi|zuHause> what's wrong with that?
20:11:02  <V453000> of course especially if someone builds in a way where he isn't trying to build a big network, his criteria for choosing a train will differ to an extent where any balancing is pointless
20:11:17  <andythenorth> balancing is pointless :)
20:11:22  <andythenorth> but it has to be done
20:11:39  <V453000> to an extent, as long as all vehicles have some use, it's enough :)
20:12:03  <andythenorth> Hog balances trucks, trams, HAUL
20:12:08  <andythenorth> seems ok
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20:12:25  <andythenorth> but then for RVs, fast express can’t just haul coal eh?
20:12:36  <andythenorth> trains are mess
20:13:00  <andythenorth> bus can go super fast, but no coal
20:13:05  <V453000> I think wagon connecting rules for express trains are totally fine
20:13:10  <andythenorth> pax tram super-high-density, but no coal
20:13:37  <V453000> I'm not going to use them in my train set, but that's just because of other full wtf mode
20:14:03  <andythenorth> I think result of connection rules is same as wagon speed limit
20:14:09  <andythenorth> it’s just implemented differently
20:14:23  <V453000> not really
20:14:32  <andythenorth> still no 300mph coal train
20:14:35  <andythenorth> ultimately
20:14:39  <V453000> it's just a forced split into 2 classes but you still work with all the variables a train can have
20:14:56  <V453000> yeah but in the selection of coal trains, the max speed matters more
20:15:31  <V453000> with wagon speed limit it's super binary, max speed of wagons reached Y/N, sort by highest power and TE
20:15:55  <Eddi|zuHause> in really ancient DBSets, there was no wagon speed limits and wagon attachment rules, making people do ICE trains with coal
20:16:33  <V453000> a "nice" part is when you have different speed limits for different cargoes, it can mean you can afford to use a slower train with some of them , but then there is the whole issue with different speed trains on the same network which is just bad
20:16:48  <andythenorth> I like to have 2 speeds on network
20:16:50  <andythenorth> fast and slow
20:16:57  <V453000> yes that's why I think using basic connection rules is good for express engines like ICE
20:16:58  <andythenorth> messes up network, but in manageable way
20:17:04  <Eddi|zuHause> in "current" DBset you have forced attachment rules, and optional wagonspeedlimits
20:17:20  <andythenorth> wagon speed limits are always optional :)
20:17:29  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
20:17:40  <andythenorth> attachment rules are maybe boring, not sure
20:17:42  <V453000> are they? I think canadian grf was doing some weird shit which didn't make it that optional
20:17:55  <andythenorth> canadian grf died :P
20:18:08  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: i think it modified the engine speed instead
20:18:14  <V453000> attachment rules can become a tangled mess of unintuitive horde of error messages, if you do it in the huge extent like NUTS does
20:18:20  <V453000> yes I think so Eddi
20:18:49  <V453000> well, I gtfo
20:18:54  <V453000> thinking about trees to be done
20:19:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i think there are ways to trick the attachment rules
20:19:38  <V453000> yes if the leading engine doesn't define them
20:19:43  <Eddi|zuHause> because they only ask A whether it allows attaching B, not B whether it allows attaching to A
20:19:50  * andythenorth considers options
20:19:56  <andythenorth> - attachment rules
20:20:02  <andythenorth> - mess with engine speed depending on cargo
20:20:04  <V453000> yes it's what the "invisible leading engine" grf was causing
20:20:08  <andythenorth> - variable wagon speed limits
20:20:14  <V453000> if you just make it the leading engine, you can connect anything
20:20:38  <andythenorth> - enforce speed by requiring caboose, speed limit only applies to caboose, cabeese get faster per generation
20:20:58  <andythenorth> - ??
20:21:06  <andythenorth> - lots and lots of wagons in buy menu
20:21:10  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: how do you justify a caboose in modern trains?
20:21:14  <andythenorth> yeah no
20:21:20  <andythenorth> you don’t
20:21:47  <Eddi|zuHause> you can't really solve a 2020 balancing problem with 1890 technology
20:21:49  <andythenorth> problem is that 3 generations of engine in IH 1 has grown to 6
20:21:52  <V453000> how do you justify a slug in modern brains :)
20:22:07  <andythenorth> Slug = true for IH 2
20:22:12  <andythenorth> now correct
20:23:28  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you mean like ?
20:23:40  <V453000> he
20:23:48  <V453000> could be
20:23:52  <V453000> anyway, gnight
20:29:57  <andythenorth> bye v
20:39:31  <Wolf01> Went outside for 2 hours, is something...
20:50:56  <andythenorth> if wagon speed limits change over time, I can use just 2 generations plausible
20:51:02  <andythenorth> plausibly *
20:51:40  <andythenorth> but how to explain it in buy menu?
20:53:27  <frosch123> you can only change properties based on purchase date
20:53:30  <frosch123> not on current date
20:53:40  <frosch123> some sets use "last servicing date" though
20:54:08  <Wolf01> Which makes sense
20:54:38  <andythenorth> purchase date has an autoreplace problem :)
20:54:40  <frosch123> if you change it based on purchase date, it's essentially the same as a new wagon while removing the old one from the list at the same time
20:55:06  <andythenorth> also it’s weird for the network if a bunch of trains get faster on an arbitrary date
20:56:41  <frosch123> well, tie it to the engine then
20:56:57  <frosch123> give engines different speed limits depending on the cargo they are hauling
20:57:30  <andythenorth> worth testing I think
20:57:33  <frosch123> engine technology defined wagon technology, no need to separate/mix them
20:57:54  <andythenorth> dropping wagon speed limits would be useful
21:00:18  * andythenorth should sleep on it eh :)
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21:13:56  <Wolf01> So I'm back at the same old point... what could I do now? Sleepflix?
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21:47:23  <TrueBrain> any of you any decent knowledge of MSVC? And why OpenTTD for example targets .NET Framework 2.0? And what .NET has to do with a C++ project? :D
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21:49:49  <Eddi|zuHause> that does seem weird
21:52:35  <TrueBrain> msvcrt100.dll, as example, the runtime library, contains .NET code .....
21:52:37  <TrueBrain> LOL
21:52:44  <TrueBrain> failwhale coming by
21:52:45  <TrueBrain> stay clear
21:52:48  <TrueBrain> Microsoft at work :D
21:54:03  <Wolf01> The .NET libraries are automatically referenced, I removed the references from the OTTD project and replaced with the OTTD libraries alone and it compiled fine
21:54:29  <TrueBrain> you cannot disable the TargetFrameworkVersion :(
21:55:16  <TrueBrain> not sure what happens if I force it to 4.6.1 (VS2017)
21:55:30  <TrueBrain> VS always has been a mistery to me :D
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22:00:00  <TrueBrain> well, it linked after install the TargetingPack for 4.0 ..
22:00:47  <TrueBrain> but now settings_gen.exe failed to execute ... lol
22:03:13  <TrueBrain> this Docker for Windows is such an unstable mess and collection of brokenness ...
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22:07:33  <TrueBrain> copy/pasting inside a Docker only gives a partial paste result :D
22:07:35  <TrueBrain> briliant! :D
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22:26:26  <TrueBrain> lol; settings_gen.exe is not allowed to rename a file .. but copy+delete does work :D
22:26:28  <TrueBrain> hahaha
22:35:12  <TrueBrain> lol; I had to copy the folder in order for it to work .. it only fails on a mounted folder ... owh well, OpenTTD compiles under Windows with MSVC2017 in Docker :D
22:35:15  <TrueBrain> baby-steps
22:38:39  <TrueBrain> it fails on something LordAro did :D
22:38:59  <TrueBrain> adding a VS2017 flag, but not adding the project to switch a flag to make that not error :D
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22:42:12  <LordAro> TrueBrain: uwot
22:42:58  <TrueBrain> (fallthrough, the project needs to be told it needs c++11 :D)
22:43:07  <TrueBrain> but there are no VS2017 project files
22:43:16  <TrueBrain> so I guess it was a local thingy :D
22:43:53  <TrueBrain> euh, even c++latest
22:44:59  <TrueBrain> weird, as fallthrough is part of c++11 .. but it needs c++latest on VS2017 :D
22:46:06  <TrueBrain> how do I tell this via msbuild .. hmmmmmmm
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22:51:49  <TrueBrain> well, why would they document how to do that ....
22:54:49  <TrueBrain> ah, LanguageStandard
22:57:53  <TrueBrain> seems I really need project files to get this working :D
23:02:21  <TrueBrain> had to downgrade till before that patch to get something less error-ish :D
23:02:39  <TrueBrain> welcome to the undocumented world of Microsoft!! *facepalm*
23:07:36  <TrueBrain> yippie, it now really is only missing openttd-useful :D :D
23:08:07  <TrueBrain> :)
23:08:10  <TrueBrain> *does a happy dance*
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