Log for #openttd on 19th March 2019:
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00:00:29  <peter1138> 1 Peeeka
00:04:26  <peter1138> Gosh, that actually works.
00:10:43  <Pikka> o
00:11:20  <peter1138> Hmm, i ought to do these cranes.
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00:41:54  <peter1138> I suppose docks should perhaps have at least one tile adjacent to water...
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00:44:04  <glx> would help ships to reach docks :)
00:52:19  <peter1138> Hmm, well, placing docks on flat land works.
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01:44:45  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on pull request #7084: Change: AI/GS Config GUI overhaul
01:45:59  <Pikka> yikes
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01:46:25  <peter1138> Hmm?
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07:26:39  <peter1138> hi
07:27:04  <LordAro> moin
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07:59:13  <peter1138> Hi
07:59:15  <peter1138> Hmm
08:00:17  <peter1138> That pain au raisin was highly... energy dense.
08:09:51  <andythenorth> moin
08:12:11  <peter1138> Does NML autocrop (or have the ability to autocrop) sprites?
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08:32:29  <andythenorth>
08:32:30  <andythenorth> CROP
08:47:00  <peter1138> CROP (default)
08:47:08  <peter1138> So I need nmlc -c
08:47:09  <peter1138> Hmm
08:47:22  <peter1138> Using spritesets with different sizes in a single sprite group / layout is not possible
08:47:29  <peter1138> Why is that, anyway? :o
08:48:19  <peter1138> Ah well, it's not like it's a vehicle spriteset.
08:48:53  <peter1138> Good, I didn't break it :D
08:49:45  <peter1138> Now to add the extras.
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08:59:53  <planetmaker> peter1138, NOCROP is an option, too (to avoid -c flag)
09:00:04  <planetmaker> in the sprite definition
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09:07:59  <peter1138> Yeah I saw
09:08:06  <peter1138>
09:08:12  <peter1138> Well. Cat out of the bag.
09:08:20  <peter1138> But...
09:11:07  <planetmaker> whistle blower! Chase him! :P
09:12:33  <peter1138> Don't worry, I'm sure it's pointless :-)
09:12:55  <peter1138> How do loading stages work with sprite layouts? :p
09:14:41  <planetmaker> offsets usually. iirc
09:17:13  <peter1138> Hmm actually it should be fine, it's just templates.
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09:19:59  <peter1138> It's annoying that it all has to be in one sprite set to avoid duplication.
09:20:03  <peter1138> Or I'm doing it wrong.
09:22:37  <peter1138> Hmm, can have multiple sprite sets, but they all have to be the same size. I'm sure that's a bogus restriction. Or one that applies in some cases but not here.
09:24:51  <andythenorth> so how many ships
09:24:58  <andythenorth> can dock at your docks12.png?
09:25:19  <peter1138> All of them. There's no restriction on occupancy.
09:25:34  <andythenorth> winner
09:26:00  <andythenorth> do they all load simultaneously?
09:26:14  <peter1138> improved_loading?
09:26:16  <andythenorth> what's that weird station switch?
09:26:18  <andythenorth> yeah that
09:26:33  <peter1138> wierd station switch?
09:26:48  <andythenorth> improved_loading
09:26:51  <peter1138> Oh right :p
09:29:42  <Pikka> such catbags
09:31:47  <LordAro> peter1138: oho
09:38:08  <peter1138> Random greebling to be done on jettys.
09:38:10  <peter1138> jetties?
09:47:07  <Pikka> jetis
09:47:29  <peter1138> What ever happened to V453000?
09:47:45  <peter1138> Also, how's TaI32 going?
09:47:55  <peter1138> I like the spread-out-ness
09:48:18  <peter1138> And the parks with trees. Brilliant idea.
09:48:38  <Pikka> it's going alright
09:48:42  <andythenorth> V453000 is all factorio
09:48:44  <andythenorth> all day
09:48:54  <Pikka> this morning I fixed a bug where half the buildings wouldn't show up before 1920, oops
09:48:57  <andythenorth> PipeMania!
09:49:27  <Pikka> I'm also trying to build up the momentum to code passenger trains for civi
09:49:37  <andythenorth> choo choo!
09:50:05  <Pikka> extremely
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09:50:57  <planetmaker> V453000, is employed by factorio
09:51:06  <planetmaker> openttd gave him his job
09:51:25  <planetmaker> or rather was the show-case for application
09:51:37  <Pikka> I should try that
09:52:59  <peter1138> Crap, I need to do water-tile detection :/
09:53:16  <planetmaker> why?
09:54:03  <peter1138> Because sparkling water pixels look silly on dry land :-)
09:54:31  <planetmaker> they do... but... simply draw the ground tile and don't worry about the sprite?
09:55:24  <peter1138>
09:55:48  <peter1138> Extra water pixels for choppy water.
09:55:59  <planetmaker> ah, water pixels in the building sprite :|
09:56:28  <peter1138> Should be simple enough, just split off the water pixels into a separate sprite and child-sprite it.
09:56:45  <planetmaker> remove them from the sprite. And leave ^^ to motivated NewGRF authors
09:56:58  <peter1138> I am apparently motivated :p
09:57:03  <planetmaker> hehe
09:57:17  <peter1138> Pre-drawn graphics helps a lot.
09:57:26  <planetmaker> they do
09:58:46  <peter1138> Although I fixed the templates a lot. NML can do the multiplication for you, so a nice grid layout is very simple.
09:59:33  <peter1138> tmpl_dock( 4, 1) instead of tmpl_dock( 330, 110) is kinda nicer.
10:02:38  <planetmaker> for sprites nicely aligned in the graphcis file: very much so
10:02:58  <peter1138> I made the source file an .xcf instead of a .png
10:03:10  <peter1138> Means it keeps the guide markers :p
10:08:00  <peter1138> NewGRF buoys? :p
10:08:14  <peter1138> I mean, we have NewGRF waypoints :p
10:09:42  <planetmaker> I totally would draw newgrf buoys
10:10:15  <planetmaker> It definitely needs starbord and portside buoys. And cardinal ones
10:10:28  <peter1138> O
10:10:37  <peter1138> DOCK class BUOY? :p
10:10:44  <peter1138> Like waypoints are done...
10:11:14  <peter1138> Saves writing another new spec.
10:11:15  <planetmaker> well...
10:11:29  <planetmaker> buoys are waypoints, are they?
10:11:33  <peter1138> Exactly.
10:11:51  <planetmaker> and waypoints are stations at which you cannot stop
10:12:13  <peter1138> Ok, I guess it is worth adding.
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10:34:06  <peter1138>
10:34:07  <peter1138> Uh oh
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10:35:59  <Eddi|zuHause> well, all the technical challenges could be overcome, but the blocker will always be that the original graphics have no back sides
10:37:44  <andythenorth> it's not openttd then
10:37:51  <andythenorth> it's machinsky or whatever
10:37:56  <andythenorth> TF
10:38:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i also don't see how "pixel graphics" relates to "low poly". technically each pixel could be its own poly
10:39:59  <Eddi|zuHause> TFPatch ... OpenTF
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10:54:47  <Pikka> have we all forgotten ? :)
10:55:17  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: or we wish we had?
11:16:27  <andythenorth> that looks so cool!
11:18:17  <planetmaker> <Eddi|zuHause> well, all the technical challenges could be overcome, but the blocker will always be that the original graphics have no back sides <-- I find that really sad... (just draw and add them to openttd_orig.grf)
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12:10:07  <peter1138> Urgh.
12:29:07  <LordAro> planetmaker: rather easier said than done
12:41:48  <peter1138> I'm not sure that "no backside" is the biggest problem with going 3D...
12:54:54  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: it depends on how far you want to push the 3D-ness
12:56:00  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: but as far as the "see things behind a thing" goes, a 90° map rotation doesn't need actual 3D
12:58:51  <peter1138> BigClive trying to kill himself...
13:03:06  <planetmaker> peter1138, 3d in the sense of (rotate in steps of 90°) is actually already possible - except for houses and industries.
13:03:22  <planetmaker> and 90° rotation would go a long way, I think
13:03:55  <peter1138> Right but when the post mentions "low poly" they clearly mean full-on 3D graphics.
13:04:29  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: that would look totally hideous, if you just mapped the sprite onto a "low poly" surface
13:04:51  <planetmaker> yes. That's not what I'd aim for. That'd be something entirely different
13:05:44  <Eddi|zuHause> but i'm not creating a reddit account to answer that thing
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14:03:48  <peter1138> Why are industry tile IDs per-GRF rather than per-industry?
14:04:30  <Eddi|zuHause> because when adding them into the specs, they didn't have a vision
14:04:34  <peter1138> Hmm
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14:05:49  <peter1138> I guess you could reuse the same parts for different industries.
14:06:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess it's mostly mimicing the original game data
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14:13:16  <peter1138> Well, probably too late to change.
14:14:32  <peter1138> Not sure if it's even necessary though.
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14:19:01  <Eddi|zuHause> don't fix it if it's not broken
14:23:20  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone seen this 3D factorio-like thing?
14:27:08  <peter1138> Where's DorpsGek_II anyway?
14:27:25  <andythenorth> it's not broken yet
14:27:30  <andythenorth> FIRS is probably going to run out
14:27:38  <andythenorth> but usually, when FIRS runs out
14:27:46  <andythenorth> I do some evil workaround for a bit
14:27:59  <andythenorth> then someone gets offended by how evil it is and fixes the spec
14:28:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i've no quit message in my log, because he didn't say anything since my last disconnect
14:28:09  <peter1138> Docks are being weird, because I have not done tile-layouts for it.
14:28:32  <Eddi|zuHause> you probably should :p
14:28:33  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, ah, netsplit.
14:29:01  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, it's based on objects currently so it has x & y dimensions, but each tile is the same index.
14:29:19  <Eddi|zuHause> no object tiles?
14:29:40  <peter1138> But... that won't allow holes.
14:29:41  <peter1138> Hmm?
14:29:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never actually looked at how objects are coded
14:31:32  <peter1138> I may need to do tile layouts, as the original docks need that.
14:31:44  <peter1138> Either that or just special-case the original docks, but... urgh.
14:33:10  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a horrible idea
14:33:21  <peter1138> Yeah, well.
14:33:37  <LordAro> peter1138: i feel like the older issue should be reopened, given it was closed by stalebot
14:34:11  <peter1138> The whole GUI scaling thing is a horrible hack. I'm sorry I ever did it :(
14:34:41  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should have had a vision.
14:34:43  <peter1138> I don't even have a patch for it.
14:34:45  <peter1138> Yes.
14:34:50  <Eddi|zuHause> (sorry, i made that joke like 10 minutes ago)
14:34:52  <peter1138> Actually I sort of have a patch.
14:35:29  <peter1138> I made a patch that also scales all the padding.
14:35:39  <peter1138> You end up with double-thickness lines.
14:35:50  <peter1138> It looks like the old double-size on Windows mode we used to have.
14:35:57  <peter1138> Nice actually but a bit... brutal
14:36:28  <peter1138> Many windows are too narrow when the scale is increased.
14:37:21  <peter1138> It's likely we should have a fractional gui scale, (and ditch the ill-advised separate font and gui scales)
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14:40:27  <peter1138> Also, make everything use that OpenGL renderer.
14:40:39  <peter1138> LordAro, feel free, andythenorth/stalebot will just close it again though :p
14:41:29  <peter1138> Hmm, but I think the OpenGL stuff was still just pixel buffers. Hmm.
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15:06:38  <Eddi|zuHause> there's different approaches to OpenGL
15:07:34  <Eddi|zuHause> iirc there was some problem with textures needing power-of-two dimensions, but that should be possible by just extending the sprites with transparent pixels
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15:16:12  <andythenorth> peter1138: wat?
15:16:17  <andythenorth> the GUI scaling thing is grat
15:16:19  <andythenorth> great *
15:16:28  <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause: pretty sure power-of-two textures stopped being a problem 20 years ago
15:16:38  <nielsm> except for maybe on some mobile graphics units
15:19:50  <LordAro> andythenorth: sounds like you've got an issue to reopen then
15:20:29  * andythenorth looks
15:20:30  <andythenorth> nope
15:20:34  <andythenorth> 2x, job done
15:20:40  <andythenorth> all finished, moving on
15:20:51  <andythenorth> the only problem is a few windows that don't fit and can't be resized
15:24:17  <andythenorth> bbl
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16:13:16  <andythenorth> such cats
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16:18:02  <LordAro> nah, ponies
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17:35:16  <nielsm> anyone going to be playing Satisfactory?
17:36:01  <peter1138> Never heard of it.
17:41:06  <planetmaker> satisfactory... factorio in 3D presumably. I'll pass
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18:09:09  <peter1138> Hmm, TaI32 would be good with some non-placeholder graphics ;)
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18:11:04  <Wolf01> o/
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18:22:42  <peter1138> Hmm.
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18:30:02  <andythenorth> so is TrueBrain away?
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18:48:51  <peter1138> Hmm, so the original dock has 6 tiles
18:49:01  <peter1138> But we don't really want 6 tiles to appear in the list.
18:49:57  <andythenorth> not really
18:50:17  <peter1138> I dunno how to cope with this :/
18:51:16  <LordAro> define a preview tile?
18:51:22  <LordAro> like airports
18:51:31  <peter1138> That's way beyond the problem level :p
18:53:21  <LordAro> you're the one who said you didn't know how to deal with it :p
18:53:29  <LordAro> i merely offered a solution
18:53:41  <peter1138> A solution to a different problem.
18:57:00  <LordAro> oh, a different list?
18:57:26  <peter1138> Not really.
18:57:36  <peter1138> But a preview tile would end up with 6 copies of the preview tile...
18:57:56  <LordAro> in which case i'm confused as to what you're stuck on
18:58:15  <andythenorth> Twitch!!
18:58:37  <peter1138> I'm confused as to what I'm stuck on.
18:58:47  <LordAro> nah, pub
18:58:54  <peter1138> :>
18:59:54  <peter1138> Okay so with docks, I have done it like objects. 1 dock spec == 1 ID
19:00:34  <peter1138> Different orientations are done by varaction tests.
19:01:03  <peter1138> Original dock is 6 different IDs, 1 for each slope, and 2 for the two water parts
19:01:46  <peter1138> So... the UI needs some 'magic' to treat the original dock a just 1 ID, even though it's actually 6.
19:02:21  <peter1138> Cos you don't currently select the orientation you want, and I don't want to have to do that, because it's not necessary for newgrf docks either.
19:04:26  <andythenorth> remove original dock?
19:04:50  <peter1138> No, that breaks backwards compatibility.
19:14:27  <peter1138> uhhh
19:15:57  <peter1138> oh
19:17:15  <peter1138> This is pro-develoloping.
19:17:53  <peter1138> I dunno what to do on these corner-cases.
19:18:00  <peter1138> Literally corner-cases O_o
19:19:18  <peter1138> Hm
19:19:39  <andythenorth> YouTube recommended me this
19:20:30  <peter1138> Go to all that effort but don't fix obvious things
19:23:57  <Eddi|zuHause> why shouldn't newgrf docks get an orientation?
19:25:27  <peter1138> They have an orientation, but I don't want to have to specify that in the UI.
19:25:48  <peter1138> But
19:26:03  <peter1138> You can get that information from the slope.
19:26:23  <peter1138> But of course we also want to support non-slope docks. Hmm.
19:26:30  <Eddi|zuHause> what about docks on flat land?
19:30:19  <peter1138> Yeah
19:30:28  <peter1138> Well if it's just 1 tile then it doesn't matter either :D
19:30:50  <peter1138> Ok, original docks -- take orientation from the slope
19:31:01  <peter1138> newgrf docks, take orientation from parameter.
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19:33:22  <Eddi|zuHause> Gui could do "orientation: 1, 2, 3, 4, auto" similar to rail construction?
19:33:58  <Eddi|zuHause> then also newgrf docks could benefit from both ways
19:34:19  <frosch123> in the past people wanted to build docks in corners, but the auto-orientation failed them
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19:35:57  <frosch123> though actually docks could be along the coast,  instead of into the sea
19:36:12  <frosch123> would also work for andy's flat river pony docks
19:39:10  <andythenorth> peter1138 has screenshots
19:39:12  <andythenorth> even a branch
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19:43:17  * andythenorth poking at updating OpenTTD website words
19:47:16  <andythenorth> is LordAro in the pub?
19:47:17  <andythenorth> :P
19:48:09  <Eddi|zuHause> where else would he be?
19:48:30  <Eddi|zuHause> considering his last line was "nah, pub"
19:50:00  *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd
19:56:05  <andythenorth> so what happened to industry-plants-objects frosch123? :D
19:57:37  <frosch123> it's as advanced as the titlegame competition :p
19:57:49  <LordAro> andythenorth: yup, pub
19:58:18  <andythenorth> that is not an ideal place to prune a wiki :P
19:58:22  <andythenorth> or is it? o_O
20:03:15  <peter1138> Well
20:03:49  <peter1138> I was conned.
20:04:59  <peter1138> frosch123, along the coast, you say?
20:05:18  <peter1138> Or indeed, not coast...
20:07:50  <frosch123> yes like that :)
20:07:59  <Wolf01> Wonderful
20:08:23  <andythenorth> best feature ever
20:08:58  <frosch123> the second screenshot suggests there should be a "water continuation" variable, so there can be proper water worders on the sprites
20:09:40  <andythenorth> there's an old feature request for that, for George's hotel
20:09:55  <peter1138> water worders?
20:10:00  <frosch123> borders
20:10:04  <peter1138> Oh
20:10:25  <peter1138> I can test for it but yeah, currently it's just baked into the sprite.
20:10:27  <frosch123> for the waves and stuff
20:10:46  <peter1138> This is done with NML as well, which surprised me.
20:11:25  <peter1138> It went from "I need to make a test grf" to "Hmm, need to patch NML" to "Hmm, this is working really well, how much can I cram into this test NewGRF" quite quickly
20:11:40  <andythenorth> winner
20:11:59  <peter1138> It is based on newgrf objects though, not newgrf (rail) stations.
20:12:15  <peter1138> airporttiles is already the precedent for doing it differently.
20:13:09  <andythenorth> so I want to fix this page
20:13:26  <peter1138> It is a wiki
20:14:19  <glx> click the edit button ?
20:14:40  <peter1138> I think andythenorth would rather click the delete button.
20:14:42  <frosch123> i think andy discovered that "delete" is a previledged operation
20:14:48  <frosch123> :p
20:15:03  <glx> he has the access
20:15:28  <frosch123> oh, it links to the cia page
20:15:40  <frosch123> that service that went offline over night because of a disk crash
20:15:46  <frosch123> and noone having a copy of the software
20:16:10  <DorpsGek> the reason I exists
20:16:44  <frosch123> your mom?
20:16:51  <TrueBrain> pretty sure DorpsGek has no mom :P
20:18:07  <SpComb> oh man, CIA - from the time that people still used trac
20:18:23  <TrueBrain> owh, trac, from the time I had horrible nightmares from how shitty software can be
20:18:31  <TrueBrain> wait, did I say that out loud? :P
20:18:57  <glx> I remember a trac update ended with a new bug tracker :)
20:19:02  <peter1138> TrueBrain, but where's DorpsGek_II? :)
20:19:10  <TrueBrain> did he laeve?
20:19:13  <TrueBrain> when did that happen?
20:19:24  <frosch123> @seen dorpsgek_ii
20:19:25  <DorpsGek> frosch123: dorpsgek_ii was last seen in #openttd 18 hours, 34 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on pull request #7084: Change: AI/GS Config GUI overhaul
20:19:36  <TrueBrain> hmm .. how to reset that again .. eeuuuuhhhhh
20:19:58  <LordAro> it got netsplitted
20:22:13  <TrueBrain> DorpsGek_ii is back
20:22:19  <TrueBrain> he will rejoin when he has anything useful to say
20:26:01  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: do you want to talk about publishing artefacts from compiles? :P
20:26:08  <TrueBrain> no
20:26:13  <andythenorth> figures
20:26:13  <TrueBrain> that that solve your issue?
20:26:30  <andythenorth> for now yes
20:26:39  <TrueBrain> w00p!
20:26:42  <andythenorth> I don't have to explain it to you, which is nice
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20:26:57  <andythenorth> effort avoided :P
20:27:01  <TrueBrain> exactly :D
20:27:05  <TrueBrain> everyone happy :P
20:27:15  <andythenorth> shall we just turn this into a sledging channel for a bit?
20:27:24  <TrueBrain> sledging?
20:27:28  <andythenorth>
20:27:44  <TrueBrain> isn't that the default for this channel?
20:27:52  <andythenorth> not really no
20:27:58  <andythenorth> we're mostly quite polite
20:28:27  <andythenorth> except for TrueBrain
20:28:37  <TrueBrain> I was about to comment .. I guess it is only polite when I am not here ..
20:28:45  <andythenorth> we swear too much now
20:28:50  <andythenorth> I have to hide irc from my kids
20:28:55  <TrueBrain> fuck no?
20:28:58  <TrueBrain> really? shit dude ..
20:29:01  <andythenorth> no shit
20:29:14  <andythenorth> it's like having 4 copies of V453000 in the channel
20:29:24  <andythenorth> V453000 never responds to highlights any more
20:29:26  <andythenorth> probably on Slack
20:29:34  <TrueBrain> like sane people :P
20:29:38  <TrueBrain> (OWH SNAP)
20:30:45  <andythenorth> so have you deleted that wiki page yet?
20:30:54  <TrueBrain> Sledging? I considered it
20:30:56  <TrueBrain> voted against it
20:30:58  <andythenorth> also do we have money?
20:31:07  <TrueBrain> depends .. did you build a coal train
20:31:31  <andythenorth> not exactly
20:31:41  <andythenorth> I am going to, in some kind of order
20:31:41  <TrueBrain> what do you want to waste money on?
20:31:46  <andythenorth> - update the current website words
20:31:53  <andythenorth> - make a mockup for a new website in html
20:32:09  <andythenorth> - propose paying a designer on 99 Designs or another freelancer exploitation site
20:32:22  <andythenorth> cos we ain't designers
20:32:53  <TrueBrain> possibly a few players are
20:33:41  <andythenorth> possibly
20:34:14  <andythenorth> supermop_work:
20:34:49  <andythenorth> TrueBrain but yeah, also I wanted to show previews of website rewrites
20:35:02  <andythenorth> I guess I could get an ftp server :P
20:35:14  <andythenorth> or put them in a weird GH Pages branch manually
20:35:26  <TrueBrain> GH Pages should be able to produce the website too, I guess
20:35:29  <TrueBrain> it is Jekyll after all
20:35:34  <andythenorth> lolz
20:35:46  <andythenorth>
20:35:46  <TrueBrain> but I am way too tired to be helpful this night
20:35:53  <andythenorth> ^ enjoy :)
20:35:55  <TrueBrain> so any serious discussion will be prompted by fart noises
20:35:59  <andythenorth> we broke all the paths of course :)
20:36:07  <andythenorth> because $us
20:36:21  <andythenorth> much laughter
20:36:25  <TrueBrain> that site is easily fixed, just add /website/ to the baseURL and commit
20:36:39  <andythenorth> well yes
20:36:39  <TrueBrain> no, that is fully expected .. if you dont put it in the root folder, it will fail
20:36:56  <TrueBrain> Jekyll will always do that, basically
20:36:58  <andythenorth> yes
20:37:03  <andythenorth> it was just quite lolz
20:37:09  <TrueBrain> so fix the basepath in your config, and it works, not?
20:37:24  <andythenorth> well it does, but you'll reject my PR :P
20:37:33  <TrueBrain> so make it a separate commit, and dont put that in the PR
20:37:39  <TrueBrain> learn how to do git, ffs :P
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20:38:03  <andythenorth> is that a fart noise?
20:38:12  <TrueBrain> you can smell it here too
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20:39:11  <andythenorth> somewhat
20:40:20  <andythenorth> anyway I make new pages
20:40:27  <andythenorth> you can all read the source html :P
20:40:38  <TrueBrain> write new pages in md :P
20:42:07  <andythenorth> considered it
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20:42:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7384: Add: Display tooltips on industry chains window even when "Show toolt…
20:42:24  <glx> wb DorpsGek_II
20:42:41  <TrueBrain> you can't talk via DorpsGek_II glx :P
20:43:04  <andythenorth> oh I found the most evil thing so far today
20:43:10  <TrueBrain> my farts?
20:43:11  <glx> no need, I have DorpsGek for that ;)
20:43:12  <andythenorth> the wiki has both wiki markup
20:43:15  <andythenorth> and arbitrary html
20:43:30  <andythenorth> IF IT CAN DO HTML
20:43:37  <andythenorth> WTF IS THE WIKI MARKUP FOR?
20:43:46  <TrueBrain> because .. THAT MAKES TOTAL SENSE
20:43:50  <andythenorth> *every* markup language is worse at html than html
20:43:51  <TrueBrain> HTML should be killed with fire
20:43:53  <TrueBrain> and be burned
20:44:04  <andythenorth> nothing makes me more enraged
20:44:08  <glx> just use xml ;)
20:44:09  <TrueBrain> nothing?
20:44:15  <TrueBrain> glx just triggered me :P
20:44:18  <andythenorth> nothing does make quite angry
20:44:22  <TrueBrain> XML is human readable, I read
20:44:25  <TrueBrain> and machine can easily parse it, I read
20:44:35  <TrueBrain> I also read a lot of lies
20:44:35  <andythenorth> but hiding html behind fake markup :x
20:44:53  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: HTML is just hiding behind machine code
20:44:56  <Wolf01> Brainfuck is more readable than xml
20:44:57  <andythenorth> in what way is this a frigging href?
20:44:58  <andythenorth> You can [ find the sourcecode on GitHub]
20:45:02  <glx> html looks like xml but some construct are not valid xml IIRC
20:45:07  <andythenorth> ^^ that's a href, wtf?
20:45:13  <andythenorth> and that's supposed to be easy?
20:45:28  <andythenorth> "oh andythenorth it's for non-technical people, you don't understand"
20:45:28  <TrueBrain> its better than <href> shit :P
20:45:33  <andythenorth> I understand I can't fucking understand it
20:45:39  <glx> it's easier than typing all the <a> tag
20:45:40  <andythenorth> I hate all these stupid lanuages
20:45:41  <TrueBrain> I refuse to write HTML these days
20:45:42  <TrueBrain> fuck that shit
20:45:44  <TrueBrain> give me Markdown
20:46:30  <andythenorth> I refuse to write NML
20:46:40  <TrueBrain> we both have refusals
20:46:51  <TrueBrain> shall we start a club, so we can talk about it?
20:47:06  <andythenorth> oh I broke this page :(
20:47:15  <TrueBrain> yes you did
20:47:18  <andythenorth> FFS
20:47:19  <TrueBrain> tell LordAro to fix it :P
20:47:19  <Wolf01> I refuse to write
20:47:24  <Wolf01> Oh wait...
20:47:27  <andythenorth> all I did was edit the stupid wiki language
20:47:33  <andythenorth> and now the page is broken?
20:47:49  <andythenorth> I've rolled it back
20:47:55  <TrueBrain> just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it the fault of the wiki :P
20:48:06  <andythenorth> wait, what, it's rolled back to an old rev?
20:48:37  <andythenorth> ok fixed
20:48:40  <Eddi|zuHause> <Wolf01> Brainfuck is more readable than xml <-- can you write a brainfuck program that is also valid xml?
20:48:47  <andythenorth> I am not touching that page again
20:48:52  <TrueBrain> lies
20:49:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, a brainfuck program that does something non-trivial
20:49:10  <andythenorth> fuck it, people can continue using svn and patches and flyspray
20:49:28  <TrueBrain> whoho!
20:49:30  <TrueBrain> subversion is back!
20:49:46  <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause: maybe
20:53:20  <peter1138> Hmm, what's a "view" in newobject speak?
20:56:13  <peter1138> Hmm
20:56:51  <TrueBrain> whoho, DigitalOcean LoadBalancers support PROXY protocol; sadly, this does mean I have to change some of the main infrastructure .. as that seriously helps
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20:57:00  <TrueBrain> but .. how to avoid downtime :P
20:57:06  <TrueBrain> something to toy with over the weekend :D
20:57:49  <TrueBrain> and a mail from the CIA .. I have to pay them 10k to not get arrested
20:58:07  <glx> oh I received it too, not read yet
20:58:12  <TrueBrain> its amazing
20:58:27  <TrueBrain> are people really buying this stuff .. I mean ...
20:58:59  <TrueBrain> like someone would openly admit to be willing to commit fraud ...
20:59:21  <TrueBrain> well .. now saying that .. I read some tweets from a certain president which makes the same kind of suggestions as this mail
20:59:24  <TrueBrain> so I guess this is fair
20:59:28  <TrueBrain> let me wire the money :P
21:02:33  <TrueBrain> hmm .. "Note that in order to use Proxy Protocol with DigitalOcean Kubernetes, you will need to create a new cluster, or request a master node recycle for your existing cluster by contacting support."
21:02:40  <TrueBrain> so that takes even more effort ..
21:03:54  <milek7> xhtml was/is better
21:04:04  <milek7> at least tag closing works as expected, instead of html mix of empty and non-empty tags
21:05:43  <milek7> 'master node recycle' sounds destructive ;P
21:05:56  <TrueBrain> it is not as bad as it sounds, assuming they do it in a clever way
21:06:11  <TrueBrain> normally you run the etcd on 3 nodes, so you can cycle one by one, no fuzz
21:06:18  <TrueBrain> but .. no clue how DO solved it, honestly
21:06:22  <TrueBrain> (you cannot see the master nodes)
21:06:35  <TrueBrain> setting up a new cluster is as easy as sending such mail, so meh
21:08:28  <TrueBrain> okay, I need to reconfigure the nginx-ingress, and switch the LB .. that should be painless .. do I dare trying this directly on production ...
21:08:39  <TrueBrain> not tonight :D
21:08:54  <peter1138> nielsm, found the k-d tree bugs yet? :)
21:09:14  <glx> not something to try when sleep time is near :)
21:10:38  <peter1138> Ok, so "view" is not necessarily orientation. Hmm.
21:10:48  <TrueBrain> owh, right, we were going to remove DOS support, weren't we ... I forgot ..
21:12:10  <andythenorth> delte
21:12:49  <LordAro> exterminate
21:12:53  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: DOS isn't officially supported :D
21:13:04  <andythenorth> the official website officially says so
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21:13:42  <andythenorth>
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21:15:00  <glx> hmm we should probably remove pre-winXP from the list
21:15:03  <andythenorth> oh but the official README says DOS is officially supported
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21:17:20  <peter1138> SDL or Allegro on Windows, woo.
21:21:50  <andythenorth> glx: just remove it :)
21:21:58  <andythenorth> which list though, wiki, website, or README?
21:23:58  <Eddi|zuHause> all the lists
21:24:04  <Eddi|zuHause> autogenerate the lists
21:26:39  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #7388: Remove: DOS support
21:26:48  <TrueBrain> I hope my lengthy explanation why we remove it is appreciated :D
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21:27:53  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7332: Performance in DOS is terrible
21:28:07  <TrueBrain> next commit, remove #ifdef ENABLE_NETWORK? :D
21:28:36  <TrueBrain> 383 instances :o
21:29:29  <orudge> Hmm, I keep ENABLE_NETWORK happily disabled in my hacked up version of OpenTTD that is used to read stuff from saved games
21:29:40  <TrueBrain> hmm, we also have _network_available
21:29:40  <orudge> I suppose it doesn't hurt to have it enabled, just means extra code
21:29:45  <TrueBrain> orudge: exactly
21:30:02  <TrueBrain> it breaks too often, for no real benefit
21:31:17  <TrueBrain> right, will remove ENABLE_NETWORK tomorrow .. seems just a lot of lines to remove, I can do that :)
21:36:50  <TrueBrain> orudge: do you still support OS/2, and does it still work?
21:36:59  <orudge> TrueBrain: I was wondering when that was going to come up :D
21:37:08  <TrueBrain> it has many times, you just never respond :P
21:37:37  <peter1138> Hmm, explicit orientation makes no sense either :(
21:37:58  <orudge> I personally haven't tried to build it lately, but Paul Smedley who runs the OS/2 ports site last built it a couple of years ago
21:38:02  <orudge> It'll probably still work
21:38:13  <orudge> The newest gcc etc is available for OS/2
21:38:31  <TrueBrain> "couple of years ago".. sounds promising :D
21:38:31  <orudge> so I'd suggest against getting rid of it if possible
21:38:42  <orudge> well, 2014 is the latest build I see there
21:38:49  <orudge> I can try to fire up my old OS/2 VM one day...
21:38:50  <TrueBrain> only if you want to try to build it soon? :D
21:38:56  <TrueBrain> a non-maintained version is no version :D
21:38:57  <orudge> Indeed, I think I did at some point in the past year or so
21:39:13  <TrueBrain> tnx; let me know how it goes :)
21:42:29  <andythenorth> who did the Risc OS port ? :P
21:42:39  * andythenorth tried to get a Risc OS emulator working at the weekend
21:44:52  <orudge> It seems somebody has ported SDL2 to OS/2, so that's a good sign
21:46:04  *** gareppa has quit IRC
21:53:49  <peter1138> Emulator? Don't you have a real one? :D
21:56:18  <andythenorth> my brother sold it
21:56:21  <andythenorth> I said he could
21:56:24  <andythenorth> then regret
22:04:02  <peter1138> Selecting orientation is not pleasing.
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22:22:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7388: Remove: DOS support
22:22:54  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #7332: Performance in DOS is terrible
22:22:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #7388: Remove: DOS support
22:26:08  <Supercheese> >DOS
22:26:14  <Supercheese> wew
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22:27:59  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
22:28:48  <LordAro> rip DOS
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22:32:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
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22:48:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
22:48:58  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
22:50:43  <peter1138> Ooh, yes, I ought to fix docks.
22:50:52  <peter1138> Uses the same feature as NRT :p
22:51:35  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
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