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00:01:01 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 00:05:55 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 00:37:46 *** Jyggalag has joined #openttd 00:39:14 *** Sheogorath has quit IRC 00:44:47 *** Samu has quit IRC 01:11:41 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 01:19:29 *** Antheus has quit IRC 01:20:16 *** Antheus has joined #openttd 01:49:10 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:19:57 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 02:21:30 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:24:57 *** debdog has quit IRC 02:47:52 <Corns[m]> can somebody explain the mechanics of orthogonal/diagonal movement to me? like, how the N/S/E/W movement is faster than x/y movement 03:13:33 <Corns[m]> actually nvm i found a thread on ttd forums 03:42:21 *** glx has quit IRC 03:53:01 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 03:54:18 <Eddi|zuHause> the short version: in a grid, the diagonal steps are larger, and the way the game tries to combat this with fewer number of steps is probably incorrect, but nobody really is inclined to touch it 03:55:36 <Corns[m]> hehe 03:55:40 <Corns[m]> yeah so it's like 03:55:57 <Corns[m]> x/y lengths are 192 steps 03:56:04 <Corns[m]> diagonals are 128 steps 03:56:08 <Corns[m]> right? 03:56:59 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds wrong 03:57:58 <Corns[m]> like a single diagonal rail piece is 128 steps 03:58:05 <Eddi|zuHause> no 03:58:42 <Corns[m]> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=56757 @Rubidium's response to this thread 03:58:55 <Eddi|zuHause> a tile is subdivided in a 16x16 grid, each of these marks a "step" (visual movement of a vehicle), and then there are "substeps" 03:59:04 <Corns[m]> yeah the sub steps thing 03:59:39 <Corns[m]> there's 192 for x/y DiagDirection movement between tiles? 03:59:51 <Eddi|zuHause> so a x/y trackbit has 16*256 substeps 04:00:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and a diagonal trackbit has 8*192 substeps 04:00:07 <Corns[m]> oh 16*256? 04:00:20 <Corns[m]> diagonal as in N/S/E/W? 04:00:26 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 04:00:31 <Corns[m]> ah ic 04:01:01 <Eddi|zuHause> diagonal relative to the map grid, not the screen 04:01:08 <Corns[m]> yeah 04:01:35 <Corns[m]> i.e. the HL/HU/VL/VR trackbits 04:01:51 <Corns[m]> aight sweet thanks :) 04:02:05 <Eddi|zuHause> this is all from memory, the numbers might be wrong 04:04:24 <Eddi|zuHause> also related: a train actually makes two progress calculations per tick, so a train travelling at speed 128 makes 256 substeps 04:05:07 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 04:05:42 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd 04:06:32 <Corns[m]> Ok i see :) 04:07:41 <Corns[m]> Thats weird, i always thought it was the other way around 04:23:42 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 04:27:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the main purpose of that is to achieve higher top speeds, while still fitting the speed units into one byte. that kind of memory optimization was important in the 90s but feels a bit outdated now 05:08:19 *** fonsinchen has quit IRC 05:08:55 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd 05:17:55 *** nakki has quit IRC 05:18:08 *** nakki has joined #openttd 05:32:05 <Corns[m]> yeah i wonder if openttd's game mechanics could conceptually be refactored to be more efficient 05:32:15 <Corns[m]> eg. async render and simulation 05:35:20 <Eddi|zuHause> the last time i suggested that they called me crazy 05:35:34 <Corns[m]> probably too much work :) :) :) 05:35:42 <Eddi|zuHause> which i probably am, but that's besides the point :p 05:35:47 <Corns[m]> HAHA 05:35:51 <Corns[m]> async render would be nice 05:51:08 <peter1139> It could be more efficient, but that wouldn't be. 06:08:28 <Eddi|zuHause> they had one problem, so they added multithreading. then they had -2- -4- -8- 16 problems 06:13:43 <juzza1> isn't the simulation already async? or what does this mean: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/video/win32_v.cpp#L1262 06:23:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the drawing is decoupled from the rendering, but the rendering isn't decoupled from the simulation 06:23:42 <peter1139> You'd need to duplicate a lot of state... 06:24:27 <Eddi|zuHause> "drawing" means "put the pixels on the screen", and "rendering" means "prepare the pixels that should be displayed" 06:24:37 <Eddi|zuHause> (grossly simplified) 06:25:09 <Eddi|zuHause> this preparation step needs to know the game state, and the simulation changes the game state 06:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> so in order for the simulation to run while the preparation runs in parallel, they need to operate on separate copies of the game state, which are synchronized inbetween 06:27:02 <Eddi|zuHause> which potentially needs a 3rd copy, so it doesn't have to wait for both the simulation and the preparation to be idle at the same time to interrupt them for synchronizing 06:27:03 <peter1139> Rendering is decoupled, but has to happen between simulation runs. 06:27:40 <peter1139> Part of the "wow, fast foward is really fast now" thing is that rendering is no longer necessarily done for every simulation run. 06:30:42 <Eddi|zuHause> well, different meaning of "decoupled" :p 06:34:56 <peter1139> Sort of. It's not like the game is rendering stuff in between moving vehicles or whatever. 06:36:12 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, maybe my simplification was too broad... maybe more like: the rendering must be synchronized with the simulation, and the drawing must be synchronized with the rendering, but the drawing needn't be synchronized with the simulation. 06:37:31 <Eddi|zuHause> "synchronized" here means "one can't run while the other is running" 06:50:43 *** juzza1 has quit IRC 06:51:17 *** juzza1 has joined #openttd 07:23:00 <peter1139> I'm sure we both know what it means, and we're neither disagreeing. 08:11:13 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd 08:29:05 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: you are crazy 08:30:25 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 08:32:19 *** ad5twoknebor[m] has quit IRC 08:32:28 *** ad5twoknebor[m] has joined #openttd 09:04:06 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 10:13:07 *** ist5shreawf[m] has quit IRC 10:13:16 *** ist5shreawf[m] has joined #openttd 10:13:55 *** ookfof[m] has quit IRC 10:14:04 *** ookfof[m] has joined #openttd 10:19:31 *** jeeg[m] has quit IRC 10:19:39 *** jeeg[m] has joined #openttd 10:20:19 *** ircer[m] has quit IRC 10:20:26 *** ircer[m] has joined #openttd 10:21:07 *** josef[m] has quit IRC 10:21:14 *** josef[m] has joined #openttd 10:40:22 *** berndj-blackout has quit IRC 10:45:11 *** lpx is now known as Guest4413 10:45:28 *** lpx has joined #openttd 10:47:03 *** Guest4413 has quit IRC 10:55:24 *** Speedyn has joined #openttd 10:56:12 *** Alkel_U3 has quit IRC 10:57:07 *** Speedy` has quit IRC 11:05:28 *** lpx is now known as Guest4415 11:05:33 *** Alkel_U3 has joined #openttd 11:05:43 *** lpx has joined #openttd 11:07:18 *** Guest4415 has quit IRC 11:21:55 *** khavik[m] has quit IRC 11:22:00 *** khavik[m] has joined #openttd 11:43:33 *** Laedek_ has quit IRC 11:47:54 *** Laedek has joined #openttd 12:03:24 *** Laedek_ has joined #openttd 12:04:50 *** GroovyNoodle has joined #openttd 12:10:36 *** Laedek has quit IRC 12:14:27 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 12:14:34 <andythenorth> are we discussing lunch? 12:14:37 <andythenorth> or is that old news? 12:15:36 <LordAro> hmm, dorpsgek_ii didn't come back 12:15:41 <LordAro> that's disappointing 12:16:08 <LordAro> wait, yes it did 12:16:47 <LordAro> oh, another netsplit 12:19:10 <peter1139> I had lunch. It was, of course, another salad. With egg. 12:31:26 <peter1139> Wish I had some chocolate now, but didn't bring any, nor acquire from the sandwich van. 12:35:58 *** Samu has joined #openttd 12:36:01 <Samu> hi 12:36:07 <Samu> round 32 begins 12:40:15 <Samu> Radeon Pro Vega II Duo 12:40:18 <Samu> what a name 12:42:59 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 12:56:24 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 13:00:51 <peter1139> Probably shit too. 13:00:57 <peter1139> Just like all ATIs. 13:07:17 <supermop_work> hmm now peter is emerald green in my irc client whereas normally he is ruby port 13:38:38 *** tokai has joined #openttd 13:38:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 13:45:52 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 13:48:01 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 13:55:56 *** gareppa has joined #openttd 14:13:35 <Eddi|zuHause> that's because he incremented 14:18:39 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 14:23:32 <Markk> incinerated* 14:52:00 *** Alkel_U3 has quit IRC 14:52:20 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:53:08 *** Alkel_U3 has joined #openttd 15:40:39 <nielsm> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1222603#p1222603 <-- WITH!!!!! ? 15:41:25 <nielsm> I don't mind reading posts by people not great at english, but that's a really strange way to write a single particular word 15:42:00 <LordAro> i've seen that before 15:42:05 <LordAro> i think it's a forum autoreplace 15:42:09 <LordAro> wiht or something 15:42:23 <nielsm> hm 15:44:16 <peter1139> Turn off censoring. 15:44:26 <peter1139> whit -> WITH!!!!! 15:44:47 <peter1139> (Or perhaps wiht) 15:46:15 <peter1139> It's an old orudge thing :p 15:49:47 <nielsm> it's "whit" in this case 15:49:53 <nielsm> found and disabled the censoring option 16:15:17 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 16:15:21 *** Gumle2 has quit IRC 16:16:51 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 16:26:02 *** arikover has joined #openttd 16:33:15 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:33:54 *** qwebirc95265 has joined #openttd 16:34:32 <qwebirc95265> jo guys, i need to draw the domain class like the class diagram, any tips or helps ? 16:35:34 *** qwebirc96565 has joined #openttd 16:35:59 <Eddi|zuHause> with all due respect, you sound like a spambot 16:36:26 <qwebirc95265> lol why would i ? 16:37:06 <Eddi|zuHause> questionable nickname, asking a question without proper context 16:37:33 <qwebirc96565> guys , is it possible to make ships crash ? like trains and aircrafts 16:37:36 <qwebirc95265> well i thought the content was claer "OpenTTD" anything else? 16:38:49 <Eddi|zuHause> great, now it's two. 16:39:16 <qwebirc96565> dude I just came in 16:39:47 <qwebirc96565> if you dont have an answer tell me 16:40:03 <qwebirc95265> I dont, sorry 16:42:28 *** qwebirc95265 has quit IRC 16:42:40 <qwebirc96565> I'm asking one of the develepers not you :) 16:43:35 <qwebirc96565> developers* 16:43:40 <Eddi|zuHause> have you tried reading the code that makes trains crash? 16:43:41 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 16:43:53 <qwebirc96565> I did 16:43:59 <qwebirc96565> 4 days 16:44:00 <Eddi|zuHause> what did you find? 16:44:21 <qwebirc96565> they are not same 16:44:38 <qwebirc96565> I cant implement crash function in ship.h // ship.cpp 16:46:00 <andythenorth> it is possible to make ships crash 16:46:06 <andythenorth> what would cause them to crash? 16:46:29 <frosch123> demolishing aqueducts with magic bulldozer? 16:47:01 <peter1139> Hit by a UFO. 16:47:14 <frosch123> sunk by the submarine? 16:47:18 <qwebirc96565> when 2 ships have the same x,y coordinates 16:47:27 <qwebirc96565> I need that explosioneffect to do it to ships 16:47:33 <andythenorth> yes that's possible 16:47:58 <qwebirc96565> how can I do it ? 16:47:59 <peter1139> It is definitely possible. 16:48:05 <peter1139> You can do it by writing the code to do it. 16:48:16 <andythenorth> yes, it's done by writing the code 16:48:31 <qwebirc96565> I tried to implement a class // struct Seavehicle (like Groundvehicle for train) 16:48:37 <qwebirc96565> lol 16:48:45 <andythenorth> iirc, ships are groundvehicles? 16:48:48 * andythenorth checks 16:48:49 <peter1139> Ships are already in their own vehicle class. 16:49:01 <peter1139> I don't see why you'd want or need to add another. 16:49:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: groundvehicles are things with articulated parts 16:49:26 <peter1139> Articulated ships, did you say? 16:49:30 <qwebirc96565> I said Seavehicle for ships like Groundvehicle for trains 16:49:32 <andythenorth> o_O 16:49:34 <peter1139> I think we've had that conversation :D 16:49:46 <andythenorth> what if the articulated ship parts collided? 16:49:57 <peter1139> Well they wouldn't, because ships don't collide. 16:50:05 <Eddi|zuHause> why would you need a seavehicle class, which would only have one subclass? 16:50:08 <frosch123> andythenorth: the front as back part connect, and the ship drives in circles forever 16:50:47 <andythenorth> would articulated ships be good? 16:50:53 <qwebirc96565> Yes I want the collide 16:50:55 * andythenorth serious question 16:51:23 <LordAro> qwebirc96565: no one's ever tried to make ships crash before, you're mostly on your own 16:51:46 <LordAro> it's certainly not as simple as adding a crash(); call somewhere 16:51:49 <Eddi|zuHause> qwebirc96565: imho, adding a check for collision should be something around 10 loc, not a giant architecture change 16:51:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:52:07 <andythenorth> there's a patch for ships that avoid each other 16:52:10 <andythenorth> in forums 16:52:10 <LordAro> ship movement code is probably a good place to start 16:52:12 <andythenorth> I'll find it 16:52:20 <qwebirc96565> I just need a change in the code for my Uni-Project , I suggested to the prof to add ship collision 16:52:41 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: well, changing the routing of ships wasn't part of the posed problem. 16:52:43 <peter1139> andythenorth, ships colliding is separate from ships avoiding each other ;) 16:52:49 <andythenorth> yes 16:53:26 <peter1139> qwebirc96565, so if this is university course work, you really need to learn how to do what you proposed to do. It's no good asking us to do your course work. 16:53:36 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: i was thinking "move_ship(); if ship.coord == another_ship.coord() { explode(); }" 16:53:44 <LordAro> so perhaps not directly in the movement code 16:54:02 <andythenorth> oh possibly JGR has already done it 16:54:05 <peter1139> I'm pretty sure it's, as Eddi|zuHause says, a few LoC to make ships collide. Desirably, no. 16:54:06 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: yes. as i said, 10loc 16:54:19 * andythenorth reading https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=42758&start=40&hilit=ship+collision 16:54:42 <peter1139> qwebirc96565, real-world coding isn't about making new classes and having magic happen. You need to write the actual code to do stuff. 16:56:00 <andythenorth> yeah JGR has ship collision avoidance 16:56:05 <andythenorth> but not ship collisions 16:56:44 <qwebirc96565> so it is not possible yo make the collide ? 16:57:15 <andythenorth> https://github.com/JGRennison/OpenTTD-patches/blob/jgrpp/jgrpp-changelog.md#v0110-2016-02-04 16:57:22 <peter1139> It is very much possible. You will have to write (albeit using existing code as refernce) your own code to do it! 16:58:10 <qwebirc96565> thank you ! 16:58:51 <qwebirc96565> last question , I didnt find the main function when for example crashfunction ist called 16:59:09 <peter1139> You didn't find it for ships because it's not called for ships. 16:59:41 <qwebirc96565> I mean any function 16:59:52 <qwebirc96565> I gave the example of trainc rash 16:59:57 <qwebirc96565> train crash * 17:00:12 <peter1139> Search harder then. It may not be a separate function, it may be intermingled in other places. 17:00:31 <peter1139> If you're at university level, you really should be able to do this. 17:01:09 <andythenorth> try searching 'crashed' 17:01:11 <peter1139> ('this' being searching around code, figuring out how bits of it (not all of it of course!) work) 17:01:14 <LordAro> peter1139: depends on particular specialisation, tbf 17:01:15 * andythenorth guesses 17:01:38 * andythenorth BIAB, and then much NRT grf to make 17:01:41 <andythenorth> very fun :) 17:01:43 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:01:48 <peter1139> LordAro, university level is dumbed down enough to not have basic skills of understanding things? 17:02:12 <peter1139> Discovery is waaaay before uni level. 17:02:19 <LordAro> you would think 17:02:23 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1139: given the discussions i follwed during my time at university, where they started introducing the "Bologna" changes, yes. 17:03:28 <LordAro> you can *nearly* get through the entire CS course at York without touching a computer 17:04:21 <LordAro> well, perhaps that's not quite fair, but there's an awful lot that doesn't require it, nor does it particularly focus on practical skills 17:20:09 <Eddi|zuHause> university never focused on practical skills 17:21:33 <Eddi|zuHause> but one of those "bologna" standardization changes being discussed was for example the requirement to teach binary as a basic concept 17:21:53 <Eddi|zuHause> which was being removed 17:30:54 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:33:49 *** qwebirc96565 has quit IRC 17:34:56 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 17:38:07 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:38:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:00:47 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:00:56 <Wolf01> o/ 18:00:59 <Wolf01> Back. 18:02:30 <Wolf01> Choice was between 1070ti and rtx2060... the result was clear 18:03:33 <Wolf01> Problem is that I can't connect the other display right now :P 18:04:24 <Eddi|zuHause> could you explain that choice to someone who has never heard those letter combinations before? 18:06:48 <Wolf01> 1070 is a bit old, still really valid but I choose a brand new one so it might be supported a bit longer 18:07:42 <Wolf01> https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-2060-6GB-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1070-Ti/4034vs3943 18:10:01 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 18:10:52 <Eddi|zuHause> support length was definitely a factor i considered when buying my graphics card 18:12:11 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 18:14:04 <Wolf01> This one is about 4cm shorter than my old one 18:14:43 <Wolf01> I have a tower server case, plenty of space, so size is not a problem :P 18:18:10 *** Gumle2 has quit IRC 18:21:46 <Eddi|zuHause> that website doesn't seem to be able to sort on price/value 18:24:28 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:25:14 <andythenorth> Wolf01: orange crawler? o_O 18:25:18 <andythenorth> or is Lego over yet? 18:25:54 <supermop_work> orange crawler? 18:25:57 <Wolf01> Orange crawler. 18:26:25 <Wolf01> Also huge excavator, I'm hoarding vip points for it 18:26:40 <supermop_work> i want the vestas turbine 18:26:47 <supermop_work> and the roller coaster 18:27:23 <supermop_work> the roller coaster should snap into the townhouse buildings 18:27:44 <supermop_work> i mean it would be trivial to modify it to 19:10:38 <Wolf01> andythenorth: I purchased some tens of those new small technic panels 3x3x1, I'm looking to use them in my current moc because they should really simplify a lot of things 19:16:36 <andythenorth> I don't have any 19:16:45 <andythenorth> lego buying has ceased :) 19:28:14 *** Samu has quit IRC 19:44:27 *** gelignite has quit IRC 19:46:52 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 19:49:48 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 19:55:00 *** Gumle2 has quit IRC 20:14:03 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 20:14:09 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:14:44 <Wolf01> https://www.brothers-brick.com/2019/06/04/astounding-lego-super-chief-train-up-for-charity-auction/ <- andythenorth 20:15:10 <andythenorth> yup 20:26:17 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 20:54:35 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 20:55:04 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 20:56:21 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 20:56:43 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 21:18:22 *** nielsm has quit IRC 21:23:45 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:28:58 *** Compu has joined #openttd 21:42:56 *** GroovyNoodle has quit IRC 22:31:16 *** arikover has quit IRC 22:33:20 *** techmagus has quit IRC 22:38:52 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:51:01 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:07:51 *** SimYouLater has joined #openttd 23:29:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:53:22 *** techmagus has joined #openttd 23:56:52 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 23:58:52 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd