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Log for #openttd on 27th August 2019:
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13:20:46  <Samu> are the forum ads
13:21:16  <Samu> supposed to be excessively big?
13:22:38  <Arveen> ads ?
13:24:01  <Arveen> oh there is an ad banner at the top
13:24:03  <Arveen> never noticed, heh
13:24:31  <LordAro> TrueBrain: DorpsGek_II seems oddly silent, has it broken, or has GH broken webhooks?
13:24:40  <Samu> https://imgur.com/9751s21
13:24:41  <Arveen> now that i seen it i totaly want to install PDF convert tools
13:24:43  <Samu> bottom side
13:25:16  <Arveen> way smaller for me - like 100x600 px
13:26:43  <LordAro> Samu: that's definitely excessively big
13:26:45  <LordAro> orudge: ^ ?
13:27:00  <Samu> https://imgur.com/undefined top side
13:27:17  <LordAro> Samu: you've done that several times
13:27:20  <LordAro> think before you press enter
13:27:31  <Samu> ops
13:27:32  <LordAro> "undefined", funnily enough, is not a valid imgur link
13:27:38  <Samu> https://imgur.com/undefined
13:27:43  <LordAro> ...
13:27:46  <Samu> seriosuly, i copy link and it gives me that
13:27:55  <LordAro> but you still press enter yourself
13:27:59  <Samu> https://imgur.com/MWU0DQT
13:28:21  <Samu> the upload speed here must be trash
13:36:14  <peter1139> That first image is clearly an advert faking being a forum section... just doesn't work with that theme, heh.
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15:33:23  <andythenorth_> Yo
15:33:44  <andythenorth_> Important news: I had lunch
15:35:54  <andythenorth_> that is all I can say before this connection drops again :x
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18:02:03  <andythenorth_> o/
18:02:39  <andythenorth_> So how about MoreEnginePhysics? o_O
18:03:27  <andythenorth_> Adjust effective hp depending on speed
18:03:51  <andythenorth_> NewGRF definition of speed-power curves
18:04:15  <andythenorth_> Leave it all at 1:1 as default
18:06:32  * andythenorth_ wonders how parametric functions work :p
18:06:52  <andythenorth_> also how to cache results :p
18:07:19  <frosch123> you already have maxte, power and maxspeed
18:07:28  <frosch123> aren't three parameters enough?
18:07:44  <frosch123> do you need b-spline control points?
18:08:04  <andythenorth_> Te is a bit misleading, in tests it’s irrelevant
18:08:26  <andythenorth_> Unless the train has not enough hp for the hill
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18:09:20  <andythenorth_> i.e. TE only offers differentiation when the train is already going too slowly :)
18:10:07  <nielsm> andythenorth_: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/7644#issuecomment-525256019
18:10:12  <nielsm> news on the macos slowdown front
18:10:43  <andythenorth_> the case is new Horse roster, frosch123 you helped me fix the lack of differentiation between freight and pax engines
18:11:06  <andythenorth_> But for new roster I want to do slow freight and faster freight
18:11:57  <andythenorth_> The current method is “slowest = highest power”
18:12:36  <andythenorth_> Which works and will probably work again
18:13:15  <nielsm> if non-perishable cargo types had even less drop-off in delivery payments from long transit time, lower maintenance cost on slow engines could work well
18:14:10  <andythenorth_> that’s a function of the industry set and could be arranged
18:14:32  <nielsm> hmm, how does input-stockpiles to industries work with acceptance stop and trains with too much cargo
18:14:51  <nielsm> will a train be able to stay in station and slowly unload while the industry works its stockpile?
18:14:51  <andythenorth_> Badly
18:14:59  <nielsm> so I guess not
18:15:03  <andythenorth_> Acceptance stop is generally unwise
18:15:35  <andythenorth_> IRL trains have peak and continuous hp
18:15:50  <andythenorth_> hmm, /me gtg :(
18:15:52  <nielsm> my thought was about industries rewarding consistent deliveries at a sufficient rate, and discouraging huge dumps followed by long waits for the next load
18:17:24  <frosch123> nielsm: do that via the output cargo
18:17:34  <frosch123> reward constant delivery with more output
18:17:51  <andythenorth_> Bbl
18:17:57  <frosch123> instead of punishing bad delivery
18:18:34  <nielsm> hmm yeah, maybe like: stockpile never dropped below X in the past Y months: bonus%
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18:20:27  <nielsm> that's pretty much a cross-breeding of the FIRS and the SPI models
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18:24:33  <TrueBrain> LordAro: what did you do to him :(
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18:27:28  <TrueBrain> no real error .. just kicked it to see if that helps :)
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18:31:13  <TrueBrain> nope ...
18:32:46  <TrueBrain> "concurrent.futures._base.CancelledError"
18:32:48  <TrueBrain> rightttttttt
18:32:49  <TrueBrain> not helpful
18:32:57  <TrueBrain> seems GitHub messages are no longer understood or something ..
18:35:55  <TrueBrain> ah .. fetching .dorpgek.yml fails .. seems their API changed ..
18:36:06  <TrueBrain> well, that is not something to fix in 32C
18:42:49  <LordAro> TrueBrain: :<
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20:01:44  <andythenorth_> o/
20:01:49  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... 1000 people died in the tornado
20:02:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling that would have been less if i didn't tell them to go to the shelter
20:02:42  <Eddi|zuHause> ... because they panicked and went everywhere but the shelter
20:02:55  <Eddi|zuHause> like 600 people piled up in the tram station that went away from the shelter
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20:23:36  <andythenorth_> o/
20:25:48  <andythenorth_> so I just use HP & speed for distinguishing different types of engine. :)
20:26:06  <andythenorth_> frosch123: no fancy extra physics?
20:30:33  <frosch123> i think i missed your point. what engine classes do you want to distinguish?
20:31:06  <andythenorth_> Slow freight and fast freight
20:31:30  <frosch123> or do you want the "show arbitrary png in purchase list"-feature to show fancy graphs? :p
20:32:00  <andythenorth_> IRL there are differences in construction between fast and slow freight engines
20:32:02  <frosch123> what is the benefit for slow freight?
20:32:11  <frosch123> faster acceleration? specific cargo types?
20:32:19  <andythenorth_> At game scale it’s probably irrelevant
20:33:03  <andythenorth_> being frank, this is mostly a way to deliberately mess up networks by introducing two freight speeds
20:33:25  <FLHerne> frosch123: In UKRS2, slow freight engines have dramatically more TE
20:33:41  <andythenorth_> Networks with a single speed are the easiest to manage :p
20:34:01  <frosch123> so, you wanto te to have a bigger impact?
20:34:09  <andythenorth_> Maybe?
20:34:26  <andythenorth_> Currently it’s ~irrelevant
20:34:38  <andythenorth_> I ran some tests a while ago
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20:34:47  <frosch123> is high TE too weak, or is low TE too strong?
20:35:33  <andythenorth_> I don’t recall, but iirc the code shows TE only makes a difference in extreme cases
20:35:45  <andythenorth_> Otherwise HP always just wins
20:36:10  <andythenorth_> This is realistic & correct afaict for train physics
20:36:49  <frosch123> train acceleration mode: original, realistic, interesting ?
20:38:21  <LordAro> original, realistic, andy
20:38:22  <andythenorth_> :)
20:38:42  <andythenorth_> There are some realisms missing from the realistic model
20:38:51  <andythenorth_> Maybe not needed in a game
20:39:26  <andythenorth_> IRL gearing is a factor for both acceleration and sustained performance
20:39:53  <andythenorth_> Rotational speed of traction motors has to be within certain limits
20:40:32  <frosch123> so you want to distinguish engines with peak performance (fast start) vs continuous perforance (heavy load)?
20:40:40  <andythenorth_> Also sustained power through a motor - heat dissipation becomes an issue
20:41:04  <andythenorth_> For steam engines, ability of boiler to replenish used steam is an issue
20:41:16  <andythenorth_> And size of driving wheels
20:43:07  <frosch123> the vehicle gui needs a "nitro" button
20:43:24  <frosch123> 90% to make engine faster, 10% for immediate breakdown
20:43:29  <andythenorth_> But tbh in openttd, “is it yellow” is probably more important than realism
20:43:49  <andythenorth_> Transport Tycoon 2 has exactly that nitro switch :p
20:44:33  <frosch123> railroad tycoon?
20:44:46  <andythenorth_> Oops :)
20:44:49  <andythenorth_> Yes
20:45:02  <frosch123> only played 1
20:45:52  <andythenorth_> I guess I would like to explore having an engine that will go at constant 65mph on flat or up a hill, vs 100mph engine that hates hills
20:46:09  <andythenorth_> Probably tmwftlb
20:48:24  <frosch123> so give one engine 50k hp and max speed 65 :p
20:49:06  <andythenorth_> That does work
20:50:28  <andythenorth_> once again, no spec extension needed :D
20:50:34  <frosch123> anyway, i still wonder whether it makes sense for engine to consume stored power at hills, and recharge on flats
20:51:48  <frosch123> would mean that engines ignore small hills, but don't they do that anyway?
20:51:54  <andythenorth_> Accumulator...
20:52:14  <andythenorth_> inertia?
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20:52:37  <andythenorth_>  /me now lost in messy RL physics :p http://www.railway-technical.com/trains/steam-vs-diesel.html
20:52:37  <frosch123> i though about thermal capacity
20:53:11  <frosch123> less power in summer :p
20:53:43  <andythenorth_> Snowline?
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20:53:58  <frosch123> more power above snowline?
20:54:00  <andythenorth_> Diesels are altitude dependent :p
20:54:13  <andythenorth_> Higher altitude = lower power
20:54:24  <andythenorth_> Turbocharging mitigates this :p
20:54:56  <andythenorth_> So many dimensions of performance we don’t account for :D
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20:55:21  <milek7> maintenance costs should depend on fuel usage
20:55:26  <milek7> and it could be even negative temporaily, when electric loco drives down from hill and uses regenerative braking to return energy to grid :P
20:55:48  <frosch123> there was a swiss mining truck in the news
20:56:13  <frosch123> which drives stuff downhill, and empty uphill
20:56:37  <frosch123> they did not quite achieve to make it consume no energy
20:56:39  <andythenorth_> I’m sure someone has already tried to do negative run costs downhill in newgrf :p
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21:08:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] uvealonso commented on pull request #7705: Fix #7704 avoiding MacOS crash when badformed UTF8 strings https://git.io/fjAx1
21:09:41  <frosch123> so it got back to life?
21:09:59  <LordAro> :>
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21:13:53  <andythenorth_> http://www.railway-technical.com/trains/steam-vs-diesel.html
21:13:59  <andythenorth_> Hmm bad paste
21:14:11  <andythenorth_> http://evilgeniustech.com/idiotsGuideToRailroadPhysics/
21:14:44  <andythenorth_> Oof braking power also :p
21:14:53  <andythenorth_> So much stuff
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21:15:45  <frosch123> isn't that a wagon property?
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21:17:19  <andythenorth_> It’s a thing I’m going to ignore :D
21:17:39  <andythenorth_> It’s quite complex, especially for US freight trains
21:17:56  <andythenorth_> Limited air capacity in the brakrvsystem
21:19:05  * andythenorth_ thinks the main gameplay thing is choosing “pointy train” or “blocky train” 
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21:24:49  <andythenorth_> Also bedtime
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