Log for #openttd on 19th January 2020:
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00:01:37  <TrueBrain> glx: why is the final 'git log' not returning anything? Any idea?
00:01:46  <glx> don't know
00:01:50  <glx> locally it works
00:02:16  <glx> + git log --oneline 'HEAD^..HEAD^2'
00:02:17  <glx> 9d6cb30 Codechange: [AzurePipelines] remove commit-checker
00:02:17  <glx> 3625ed7 Add: [Actions] commit-checker workflow
00:02:17  <glx> 6dfe5c8 Fix #7927: Incorrect resolution shown in "Huge screenshot" query window. (#7949)
00:02:34  <TrueBrain> commit-checker is not telling what it is checking, so I am curious if this is working now
00:02:35  <glx> yeah my master is not up to date while the PR is
00:02:43  <TrueBrain> ah :)
00:03:20  <glx> but it's weird I get the log when testing locally but not on github
00:03:46  <TrueBrain> especially because it does find a common parent
00:05:13  <TrueBrain> hmm .. can you add a wrong-commit-message commit in ?
00:05:28  <TrueBrain> allows us to check if it works, but also if the non-zero exit code is processed correctly :D
00:07:17  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7943: Move commit checker from Azure Pipelines to Github Actions
00:07:51  <glx> invalid message and trailing space :)
00:07:59  <glx> let's see the result
00:08:50  <glx> ah this time log is correct
00:08:59  <glx> and check fails as expected
00:09:04  <TrueBrain> sweet
00:09:45  <TrueBrain> so remove the commit, and fix my OCD, and off we go :P
00:12:26  <glx> <-- better like that ?
00:12:33  <TrueBrain> <3
00:12:42  <TrueBrain> add a dot at the end to make it perfect :)
00:14:50  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7943: Move commit checker from Azure Pipelines to Github Actions
00:16:29  <TrueBrain> lets find out how many things this breaks :D
00:16:58  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #7943: Move commit checker from Azure Pipelines to Github Actions
00:17:37  <glx> hmm maybe all opened PRs, like when I added a regression workflow for nml
00:21:59  <TrueBrain> well, I will see tomorrow the disaster this created :D But nice work glx, this will improve PRs by a lot :D Now some slick annotation, and maybe people will know how to fix it when it breaks :)
00:22:17  <TrueBrain> cool things you can do now, is for example comment in the pull-request (just once for example) if the commit message is wrong
00:22:23  <TrueBrain> I see that now with some repositories
00:22:42  <TrueBrain> something like: "We noticed the commit checker failed; this is because we follow a strict commit message policy. Read more about this on ...."
00:23:05  <TrueBrain> that really helps new people to understand what happened, but also allows us to tell how to fix it :)
00:23:12  <glx> at least no the error will be easier to read too
00:23:15  <glx> *now
00:23:18  <TrueBrain> yup
00:23:24  <TrueBrain> anyway, something to think about to improve on this :)
00:23:38  <TrueBrain> (not something I will be building anytime soon myself, to be clear :P)
00:23:43  <TrueBrain> for now: good night :)
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07:57:27  <andythenorth> moin
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08:06:36  <Pikka> boin
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08:16:36  <andythenorth> moar I think
08:19:05  <peter1138> Yes
08:22:09  <peter1138> Oh. I was going to have a Lemsip. So I made a coffee by mistake. Oops.
08:22:10  <Pikka> moar which though?
08:22:21  <peter1138> More merge conflicts.
08:22:41  <andythenorth> Pikka moar covered hoppers of course
08:22:56  <Pikka> oh of course
08:22:56  <andythenorth> what else could I be talking about? o_O
08:23:10  <andythenorth> so are you doing 4x NARS?
08:23:14  <peter1138> Ok, I finally got my road bike back and... I'm not riding this morning. It's -2 and I slipped and landed on my hip yesterday anyway.
08:23:23  <andythenorth> ouch
08:24:46  <Pikka> I'm doing a bridge, and then maybe a tree
08:25:04  <Pikka> also ouch
08:25:14  <andythenorth> procedural tree generator? o_o
08:26:52  <Pikka> had a couple of goes
08:26:56  <Pikka> just going to draw them I think :P
08:43:00  <peter1138> Hmm, booted my old server up to redo my backup, but... can't find it on the network :/
08:43:52  <peter1138> Also my OpenTTD server seems quite popular, possibly because it auto-restarts at ... 2050 I think.
08:45:33  <peter1138> Starts in 1980.
08:45:42  <peter1138> Wow, the auto-restart is abrupt, isn't it?
08:50:27  <LordAro> peter1138: aw
08:50:41  * LordAro also not riding this morning, also because negative temperature
08:51:26  <LordAro> andythenorth: needs procedural tree placement generator :)
08:51:50  <andythenorth> :P
08:51:52  <andythenorth> newgrftrees
08:52:39  <peter1138> LordAro, I'm just lamenting... I used to be an all-weather rider...
08:53:01  <peter1138> 66% water on my server. Yay for ships!
08:53:08  <LordAro> i think there are reasonable limits to this
08:53:17  <LordAro> i did pouring rain last week
08:53:22  <peter1138> I'd go out even if it was pissing down, yes.
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08:53:33  <andythenorth> yeah but ice
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08:54:56  <peter1138> Hmm, at least starting in 1980 you get hovercraft :D
08:56:20  <peter1138> "ERROR: The server is restarting...?Please wait..."
08:56:24  <peter1138> That doesn't seem quite right.
08:56:34  <peter1138> It's... not an error, and that question mark...
08:57:01  <Wolf01> "The task failed succesfully"
08:57:29  <LordAro> failing to render a newline, i think
08:57:48  <LordAro> src/lang/english.txt:STR_NETWORK_MESSAGE_SERVER_REBOOT                               :{WHITE}The server is restarting...{}Please wait...
09:01:00  <andythenorth> so daylength then?
09:02:59  <LordAro> peter1138: is your server public?
09:03:52  <peter1138> Yes, it's called "[CLC] OpenTTD" for various reasons.
09:05:04  <andythenorth> coal mail trains
09:05:05  <andythenorth> nice
09:05:11  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7943: Move commit checker from Azure Pipelines to Github Actions
09:05:24  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7943: Move commit checker from Azure Pipelines to Github Actions
09:06:39  <peter1138> Heh, I forgot we have existing station coverage highlight now.
09:07:27  <peter1138> And town coverage.
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09:16:06  <andythenorth> I forgot how low primary output is in vanilla :P
09:16:10  <peter1138> Yes, rivers, Pikka. You could just bulldoze it like most people :D
09:16:22  <peter1138> andythenorth, well it might pick up :p
09:16:49  <Pikka> fine
09:17:11  <Pikka> I'll draw riverbanks and canals, I guess they're not going anywhere :P
09:17:38  <andythenorth> all my money gone on ships :)
09:17:48  <andythenorth> Pikka: draw half-tile diagonals :P
09:18:02  <peter1138> Bigger loan, andythenorth?
09:18:05  <andythenorth> ugly rivers are ugly, someone will fix
09:18:07  <andythenorth> :P
09:18:13  <andythenorth> maxed my loan
09:18:18  <peter1138> Ah
09:18:26  <Pikka> bridge time
09:18:29  <Pikka> signal time
09:18:31  <Pikka> tree time
09:18:37  <andythenorth> see if it makes any money while I go to Tesco
09:19:05  <peter1138> Hmm, one red link.
09:19:31  <peter1138> Will Tesco be open yet?
09:19:47  <peter1138> Should I go myself just to get out of the house?
09:19:57  <andythenorth> I have to take kids to football etc :P
09:20:08  <peter1138> Oh... kids...
09:20:32  <peter1138> It's a bit silly that these passenger ships don't at least take mail.
09:20:42  <peter1138> (As well)
09:21:06  <peter1138> Mind you, that's also silly of me, that probably doesn't happen anyway.
09:21:24  <peter1138> Easier to load a lorry onto a ferry, heh.
09:22:18  <andythenorth> multi-cargo ships :P
09:22:23  <andythenorth> imagine
09:22:35  <peter1138> Hmm, industry density is a bit high, perhaps due to the low amount of land-mass.
09:22:39  <peter1138> Yeah.
09:24:15  <andythenorth> is it original train physics? o_O
09:24:25  * andythenorth will adjust play style accordingly :P
09:24:45  <andythenorth> hills are very very bad eh
09:24:52  <peter1138> I... Um... Is it?
09:24:53  <peter1138> Hmm.
09:25:08  <peter1138> Oh, it is. How odd!
09:25:24  <LordAro> i've been noticing a few default settings that could probably be changed...
09:25:57  <peter1138> If only the settings could be changed, via gui, from a client with the rcon password.
09:26:18  <andythenorth> TTD mode, sandbox mode, scenario mode (realism)
09:26:23  <andythenorth> model train mode :P
09:27:40  <peter1138> Settings presets, eh?
09:28:06  <andythenorth> sandbox mode just turns magic bulldozer on :P
09:31:21  <LordAro> my ships are complaining that they are lost, despite happily heading towards the next destination
09:31:27  <peter1138> Oh god changing settings on a server that's running is... not fun.
09:31:32  <peter1138> LordAro, I noticed that.
09:31:37  <LordAro> could be something to do with the double lock?
09:31:51  <peter1138> lock or dock?
09:32:01  <peter1138> Oh, lock.
09:32:04  <LordAro> lock
09:32:38  <peter1138> I wonder, did we undo the path length limit after the caching was implemented...
09:32:53  <LordAro> pretty sure
09:34:08  <andythenorth> original gameplay so different to Horse / FIRS madness :P
09:34:11  <peter1138> Hmm, yeah we did.
09:34:13  <andythenorth> not worse, kind of charming
09:34:29  <peter1138> I've never played Horse / FIRS properly, so I don't know.
09:34:43  <peter1138> I did play with Pikka's industries a lot though.
09:34:52  <peter1138> I have to admit, I never really found FIRS actually fun.
09:34:57  <andythenorth> it's not for everyone
09:35:37  <andythenorth> and I don't like the Extreme thing
09:36:48  <LordAro> is the new vehicle window supposed to not appear when you clone a vehicle?
09:37:09  <andythenorth> if it has shared orders, shouldn't appear iirc
09:37:49  <peter1138> Okay, "realistic" on.
09:38:08  <LordAro> andythenorth: that's what i'm doing, but why?
09:38:29  <andythenorth> spams loads of windows?
09:38:33  <andythenorth> that have no purpose?
09:39:04  * andythenorth downgrading trains :D
09:39:16  <LordAro> only if you start them all at once, which i'm not doing
09:41:08  <andythenorth> I might be talking at cross purposes
09:41:31  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: someone thought you don't need the new train window for anything, since all you would ever do was start/stop and you could do that in the depot
09:42:04  <Eddi|zuHause> also, spamming the clone button tended to fill your screen, and then close the oldest window first, which is the one you're cloning from
09:42:17  <andythenorth> it only applies if ctrl-cloning
09:42:27  <andythenorth> otherwise the vehicle window is created
09:42:31  <Eddi|zuHause> there should be a setting to turn it back on
09:42:39  <andythenorth> maybe, but why?
09:42:50  <andythenorth> all it does is fill your screen so you can't see anything? o_O
09:42:54  <andythenorth> seems user hostile to me
09:43:01  <andythenorth> setting though
09:43:06  <Eddi|zuHause> some people are masochists
09:43:21  <andythenorth> some people have 2x 30" screens
09:43:44  * andythenorth delivers goods
09:43:50  <andythenorth> goods grows towns, right? o_O
09:44:49  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: sure, and lightning hits oak trees more often...?!?
09:45:05  <andythenorth> yup
09:45:51  <LordAro> andythenorth: is that you in red?
09:45:54  <andythenorth> yup
09:45:58  <LordAro> get out of my area :p
09:46:15  <andythenorth> there I did a bridge
09:46:23  <LordAro> hmmpf
09:46:35  <andythenorth> I am doing all forests
09:47:24  <peter1138> never_expire_vehicles = true
09:47:25  <peter1138> Hmm :/
09:47:50  <peter1138> Although it says "off" in the gui.
09:48:03  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a saying in german that in case of a thunderstorm, you should avoid oaks and look for beeches.
09:48:12  <Eddi|zuHause> someone studied that once, and found that the bark of oak trees is more likely to splinter if it gets hit by a lightning
09:48:39  <Eddi|zuHause> so it's a perception bias
09:48:50  <andythenorth> who winning?
09:49:06  <Eddi|zuHause> the only winning move is not to play.
09:49:17  <andythenorth> you win then Eddi|zuHause
09:50:02  <peter1138> 1 out of 6 connections are... IPv6.
09:50:37  <Eddi|zuHause> ipv6 is only like 20 years old by now, why would you assume it had caught on yet?
09:56:11  <andythenorth> shops etc
10:02:50  <LordAro> hmm, can't build a bridge over a lock?
10:04:07  <andythenorth> Pikka: you using railway/foamer names like 'polybulk'?
10:04:14  <andythenorth> or more generic?
10:05:09  <Pikka> mostly generic
10:05:14  <Pikka> although I've got a speedlink van
10:05:50  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i think i've seen a patch for that
10:05:54  * andythenorth running out of variations of 'covered hopper' ;P
10:06:05  <andythenorth> that also don't overlap with 'hopper' :P
10:06:07  <Eddi|zuHause> but it might have been a samu patch, so who knows...
10:07:24  <Pikka> guess you need to go foamy if you've got MOAR
10:07:40  <andythenorth> possibly yes
10:08:07  <andythenorth> I already used up 'mineral', 'rock', 'ore' for mining cargo wagons
10:08:17  <andythenorth> and I have silo / pressure / powder wagons
10:08:21  <andythenorth> the problems of MOAR
10:09:57  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure what the problem is
10:10:33  <andythenorth> names
10:10:38  <andythenorth> also shops
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10:11:09  <Eddi|zuHause> why would anyone go shopping on a sunday?
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10:25:47  <LordAro> i don't know how to fix this
10:28:50  <Pikka> it's pretty easy
10:29:08  <Pikka> you say "peter1138, please turn cargodist off" :P
10:29:15  <LordAro> :D
10:37:17  <Eddi|zuHause> moar trains
10:37:39  <Eddi|zuHause> in my experience, once a link is overloaded, there are knockon effects that make it worse
10:48:56  <Eddi|zuHause> also, increasing the distance effect on demand tends to help with overcrowded passenger networks
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10:50:49  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth
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10:52:06  <TrueBrain> time to deploy something in production which I haven't tried in development yet .. as .. YOLO! :P
10:52:37  <nielsm> as long as it can be rolled back
10:52:50  <TrueBrain> mmmaaayyyybbbeeeee :P
10:57:29  <peter1138> LordAro, wasn't there some discussion somewhere about reducing the amount of passengers that towns produce. Something about quadratics and double double double or something.
10:57:56  <FLHerne> LordAro: Sort by Via->Destination->Source, it's much easier to see the problems then
10:59:16  <peter1138> Probably could do with some kind of destination rating, so when culling passengers (hah) the badly serviced ones bugger off first.
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10:59:49  <Samu> hi
10:59:56  <LordAro> peter1138: there's a setting somewhere, i think
11:00:21  <LordAro> FLHerne: shows a lot of passengers via 2 towns in particular, but i'm still not sure what i'm supposed to be doing about it
11:00:45  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: there was a PR, i don't know if it was included
11:01:07  <FLHerne> LordAro: Build more service on that route, or a new route that goes more directly to their ultimate destination?
11:01:39  <FLHerne> Mesh-ish networks tend to work a lot better than spine-and-branches
11:03:39  <peter1138> It's the bus-feeders that suffer.
11:03:40  <SpComb> yeah, sparser direct connections with better exchange connections offload a lot of traffic
11:03:50  <FLHerne> Trams!
11:04:18  <SpComb> like try and build your local lines from smaller towns so that they interchange with multiple larger cities and mainline services, not just one
11:04:45  <SpComb> and have multiple different mainline connections between different cities with different routings
11:04:47  <peter1138> Larger maps with sparser towns...
11:05:07  <SpComb> that too, the default towns are way too densely placed
11:05:15  <SpComb> for cargodist
11:05:16  <FLHerne> SpComb: The risk there is that you accidentally make the 'local' line the most-direct route between large places
11:05:33  <FLHerne> Usually avoidable though
11:06:16  <SpComb> I haven't noticed problems with that in cargodist, it seems to work pretty well for those kinds of topologies
11:06:25  <Eddi|zuHause> so, apparently the town cargo PR (#6965) was merged right after 1.9
11:06:28  <Samu> LordAro, what kind of question is that
11:06:52  <SpComb> not sure, does cargodist actually take travel time into account?
11:06:55  <peter1138> My lines are point-to-point, but then I'm doing ships, so that's pretty normal.
11:06:59  <Samu> - because otherwise it's disabled
11:07:06  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, hmm, does it have settings I should tweak?
11:07:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it does
11:07:30  <Samu> i'll take screenshots
11:07:31  <peter1138> "Town cargo generation: Linear"
11:08:01  <peter1138> And a scale factor.
11:08:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't looked at the end part that got merged, but the original said something about a "high/medium/low" setting
11:08:42  <Eddi|zuHause> and some "PeterN" dude talked about keeping "original" as default
11:09:00  <peter1138> No, the default is linear.
11:09:05  <peter1138> Eh, wanker.
11:09:24  <peter1138> I'm going to pretend I didn't want to but only because I can't be bothered to look.
11:09:35  <peter1138> Anyway, it's already on linear, not original, and still
11:10:03  <nielsm> imagine if it was on original, the numbers would be even worse!
11:10:12  <peter1138> Quite.
11:10:12  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7890: Fix #6452: Reset only editable and visible settings from GUI
11:10:32  <peter1138> town_cargo_scale_factor is in my config but doesn't exist. Oh dear.
11:10:43  <Samu> sorry if my answer is a bit blunt
11:10:44  <Eddi|zuHause> in my cargodest game, my stations had like 10k passengers waiting
11:11:05  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: probably remnant from older version of the PR
11:11:42  <peter1138> Likely.
11:11:58  <Pikka> the linear/exponential thing is fine, but surely beyond that, cargo production is down to newgrf?
11:12:57  <peter1138> Maybe 'decay' for passengers needs to be quicker.
11:13:00  <nielsm> if newgrf houses have the production callback then that is used instead, and not affected by the setting
11:13:07  <nielsm> iirc
11:13:12  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: depends. on whether the NewGRF makes a production callback, or just relies on the inhabitants<->production relation
11:13:14  <peter1138> It's all very well coal sitting on a platform, it doesn't care.
11:14:43  <SpComb> ugh, my original town cargo generation factor was such a hack, that #6965 discussion reads so much better... shame it took such a long time to come up with that and fix it :)
11:16:42  <peter1138> So these gameplay complaints... other than cdist, and the amount of water, most of these settings are default :p
11:17:11  <Pikka> maybe some defaults should be changed
11:17:28  <Pikka> :P
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11:19:13  <andythenorth_> lordaro cdist is solved by turning off town growth
11:19:48  <andythenorth_> and setting distance effect to about 15%, depending on map town density
11:20:55  <peter1138> "solved"
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11:21:06  <SpComb> what's the default distance effecr, ref
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11:21:11  <peter1138> Wolf01 solves it by playing No Man's Sky.
11:21:13  <andythenorth_> well it works and requires no further code
11:21:22  <andythenorth_> old lady, fly, spider
11:21:32  <peter1138> Turning off town growth really isn't an option.
11:21:45  <peter1138> Distance effect likely is fine.
11:21:54  <andythenorth_> I tended to agree until I tried it :p
11:22:34  <peter1138> Does turning off town growth stop towns growing?
11:22:53  <andythenorth_> somewhat
11:23:00  <andythenorth_> i turned it to slow
11:23:13  <andythenorth_> and prevented towns building roads
11:23:26  <peter1138> I have cargo flow legend on for my company but I see dots for other players' stations.
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11:23:38  <peter1138> Slow doesn't seem to be off?
11:23:45  <andythenorth_> means town growth keeps pace roughly with vehicle speed/capacity growth
11:24:13  <andythenorth_> if I want a bigger town I then build roads
11:24:24  <SpComb> at least TTD doesn't have private vehicles blocking traffic inside towns
11:24:29  <andythenorth_> “sandbox mode” :p
11:24:48  <Wolf01> Aaaaand I found my pc being disconnected from the modem for no reason... I had to unplug the eth cable and reconnect it
11:24:52  <SpComb> let me talk about my TpF2 metropolis with 10k residents, and how impossible it is to build tram networks in that city
11:25:22  <SpComb> the roads in nearby towns are blocked because the queue of cars trying to drive into the metropolis extends all the way along the regional roads to those other towns
11:29:44  <TrueBrain> <- w00p! (you have no idea how much effort it took to get that you no longer have to add 'index.html' to it)
11:30:00  <TrueBrain> depending on your edge location, it might still be broken btw; takes a bit of time to propagate :)
11:32:19  <andythenorth_> :)
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11:38:23  <nielsm> how insane does this look?
11:40:46  <LordAro> nielsm: istr michi_cc having something similar...
11:40:55  <nielsm> I don't know?
11:42:06  <michi_cc> nielsm:
11:42:07  <nielsm>  probably this
11:42:09  <nielsm> :D
11:42:30  <michi_cc> It's not a block based-map though, but more like Chris Sawyer did RCT and Lomo.
11:42:36  <Wolf01> Wtf is my phone updating? Wasn't windows mobile out of support?
11:42:46  <michi_cc> A bit stale, but I am working on a proper rebase for RoadTypes.
11:43:51  <nielsm> I think block based has two advantages: 1) memory cache will put nearby tiles closer in memory, 2) allowing copy-on-write transactional map
11:44:29  <michi_cc> And of course the real final step is still missing because it needs some more ground work first: Reorganizing the map bits to make the Tile struct smaller.
11:45:35  <michi_cc> nielsm: Well, my change and a block-based map don't really conflict in any way. My branch is about having more than one Tile struct for each TileIndex, which doesn't make assumptions whether TileIndex'es itself are continous in memory.
11:46:28  <michi_cc> The assumption is only that all Tile's for a TileIndex are contiguous.
11:47:35  <nielsm> "SmallVector"
11:47:37  <nielsm> I see it's old
11:49:37  <nielsm> but is the idea that you have a "base land" tile on which you can stack road, rail, buildings, etc, in a mostly unlimited fashion?
11:50:14  <nielsm> (I assume there's just one base land, no support for caves)
11:56:44  <nielsm> from the type of changes it looks like it'd be more like remake than rebase tho
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12:20:19  <andythenorth> we have a discord? :o
12:20:37  <peter1138> Who?
12:21:41  <andythenorth> your server
12:23:02  <peter1138> Ah, well that's a different 'we'.
12:23:19  <peter1138> Hmm, red on my cargoflow legend.
12:25:05  <andythenorth> build moar
12:25:20  <peter1138> And also other people's oilrig stuff on my cargoflow legend.
12:25:21  <LordAro> isn't that precisely the opposite of what you should do?
12:25:28  <LordAro> i had a lot of red on mine
12:25:31  <LordAro> i mostly ignored it
12:25:36  <LordAro> peter1138: sorry
12:25:58  <peter1138> Mmm, I wonder if that should be toggggggleable.
12:26:28  <LordAro> peter1138: per company? it is
12:26:43  <peter1138> It's shows neutral stuff.
12:26:52  <LordAro> oh right
12:27:01  <LordAro> i wouldn't have noticed that :p
12:27:12  <peter1138> And "per company" is also ignored for stations.
12:27:25  <andythenorth> mmm
12:27:30  <andythenorth> forests get chopped
12:27:37  <peter1138> Yes?
12:27:38  <andythenorth> I should do that in FIRS
12:27:41  <andythenorth> looks nice
12:27:42  <peter1138> Does it not?
12:27:45  <peter1138> o_O
12:27:56  <andythenorth> FIRS does not
12:28:23  <peter1138> How lax.
12:28:25  <andythenorth> it's climate sensitive trees and crap, so it's not trivial
12:28:31  <andythenorth> draw trees andythenorth
12:29:43  <peter1138> Oh.
12:31:30  <peter1138> I wonder if my old server is stuck on Press F1 to continue...
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12:33:30  <andythenorth> oof only Floss 47 available now
12:41:35  <peter1138> Any new hovercraft?
12:46:17  <andythenorth> hmm need towns to accept goods
12:46:24  <andythenorth> maybe we should be able to grow them
12:46:31  <andythenorth> how about if delivering goods grew the town?
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12:48:21  <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> "solved" <-- a rough rule of thumb i've developed over the past years: if andy complains something is "broken", it's probably not. and if andy says something is "solved", it's probably not
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12:49:55  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with distance effect is that it's global, but needs to be high for passengers, and low for other cargo
12:51:12  <peter1138> Sounds solvable?
12:51:34  <andythenorth> JGR has cdist tuning per available cargo
12:51:52  <andythenorth> I have no opinion on whether it's good :P
12:51:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure it's technically solvable, but politically?
12:52:11  <andythenorth> JGR server game? o_O
12:52:27  <Eddi|zuHause> the amount of settings was a big discussion point in the development and merging process of cargodist
12:52:33  <Eddi|zuHause> ... which took like 5 years
12:53:14  <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm not a fan of "setting for each cargo individually" at all
12:53:51  <Eddi|zuHause> however, i do like the other approach, split "asymmetric" distribution into "with distance effect" and "without distance effect"
12:53:53  * andythenorth delivers goods to grow towns
12:54:34  <peter1138> Hmm, might buy a new keyboard.
12:54:47  <peter1138> My mechanical didn't survive the Christmas spillage.
12:54:53  <tenhi> lol
12:54:57  <andythenorth> have to keep the economy going
12:54:57  <tenhi> what did you spill?
12:55:04  <andythenorth> all this anti-consumerism is good
12:55:04  <peter1138> Just water.
12:55:07  <tenhi> oh
12:55:08  <andythenorth> but it's bad for the economy
12:55:12  <tenhi> mine is spillproof
12:55:31  <andythenorth> have you tested?
12:55:53  <tenhi> hmm. no. i think i spilled on one of my old ones
12:55:55  <Eddi|zuHause> last time i spilled something, i took it apart, and clean the inside electronics foil thing
12:55:57  <tenhi> (it's a thinkpad)
12:56:09  <tenhi> i once cleaned my old phone (pre-smartphone) with soap and water and killed it
12:56:12  <tenhi> shoulda taken out the battery first
12:56:39  <andythenorth> hmm can I save these iron ore mines?
12:56:43  <andythenorth> 18t / month right now
12:56:48  <tenhi> pour water into them
12:56:59  <tenhi> flush out the goblins
12:57:09  <Eddi|zuHause> water, love, green thumb?
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13:00:07  <Eddi|zuHause> no, youtube, i don't want to listen to any christmas songs...
13:00:27  <rptr> spotify
13:00:33  <rptr> i can't believe openttders don't use spotify ;)
13:00:56  <rptr> i mean the original author is the original author of openttd
13:01:27  <Eddi|zuHause> ... i can't watch interesting videos on spotify
13:01:35  <rptr> do you at least use adblock
13:03:51  <peter1138> Gah, this car spins out too easily.
13:04:47  *** rptr has quit IRC
13:06:02  <peter1138> Oh. I just rolled it :p
13:07:47  <andythenorth> ouch my iron ore mine closed
13:09:02  <andythenorth> where did LordAro's company go? :P
13:10:56  <peter1138> O
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13:23:51  <andythenorth> well
13:23:53  <TrueBrain> did he go bankrupt already?! (no clue what you are talking about, but I wanted to pitch in)
13:24:04  <andythenorth> maybe he got bored
13:24:21  <andythenorth> right that's enough vanilla OpenTTD for me :P
13:24:25  <TrueBrain> hmm ... I need to make a deployment to AWS that will break all services for a bit of time, and I have no way to test if they will recover :P
13:24:33  <andythenorth> it's nice to play like it's 1996
13:24:49  <andythenorth> but only for a bit :P
13:37:54  <nielsm> ottd server as a docker container when?
13:38:28  <michi_cc> nielsm: The core map code is remarkably stable, I didn't have to fix much so far. I might re-do the road commits, as they contain quite a lot of indentation/formatting changes that will make messy diffs, even if the logic didn't really change that much.
13:56:49  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
13:57:12  <peter1138> andythenorth, is that just an excuse?
13:57:23  <andythenorth> did I start losing?
13:57:49  <glx> commit check is really fast now
13:57:52  <LordAro> andythenorth: oh no
13:58:14  <LordAro> does it autoclean companies if they're not "occupied" for a certain amount of time?
13:58:23  <LordAro> pikka's disappeared randomly as well
13:58:42  <peter1138> Possibly if no password is set.
13:58:58  <glx> there are 2 autoclean settings IIRC
13:59:11  <andythenorth> yeah mine had a password
13:59:21  <LordAro> bleh
14:00:01  <andythenorth> oof
14:00:19  <andythenorth> so ideally we need daylength eh
14:00:35  <peter1138> Do we?
14:00:50  <andythenorth> well
14:00:58  <andythenorth> it's solved by using date cheat regularly
14:01:02  <andythenorth> so no
14:01:20  <peter1138> "it" and "solved"
14:01:48  <rptr> day night cycle pls
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14:05:30  <andythenorth> OpenTTD 123.5% of CPU :P
14:05:57  <peter1138> Meh, episode 3 is kinda hard :/
14:06:25  * andythenorth closes the train window
14:06:38  <andythenorth> normality restored
14:06:42  <andythenorth> 51% of CPU
14:06:54  <peter1138> o_O
14:08:24  <peter1138> So yesterday I ate far too many snacks. Today I probably already have. So shall I just say sod it and start drinking for the rest of the day?
14:08:36  <peter1138> It's too damn cold to do outside exercise stuff.
14:09:03  <andythenorth> do planks
14:10:39  <rptr> does anyone actually do those body exercises and stay fit
14:11:07  <rptr> for me only going to the gym works, cause i go there, stay for 60-90 min and get stuff done. if i was going to do planks, i'd do one, then i'd rest the 90 seconds before the next rep but get bored and do something else
14:11:26  <rptr> perhaps in a prison cell where there's literally nothing to do
14:11:33  <rptr> also i say drink peter1138
14:11:46  <rptr> if-- you tell me what i should eat/make
14:14:49  <peter1138> Meh, just ate salad, which was great. Followed by a double portion of crisps. Ooops. And a chewy nut bar. And some cheese on ryvita. And... I'm doomed.
14:15:02  <peter1138> And I just killed 3 arch-viles, so that's good.
14:15:26  <peter1138> A little bit of Back To Saturn X that I was stuck on :p
14:16:19  <rptr> isn't ryevita a cereal?
14:16:42  <rptr> a few yrs ago i lived abroad and i found... oh no. i mean weetabix. i saw weetabix for the first time. man that stuff is amazing, for some reason
14:16:51  <rptr> much better than plain oats and milk which is what i normally eat
14:18:08  <peter1138> Ryvita is a cracker.
14:18:29  <andythenorth> hmm
14:18:36  <andythenorth> 39 trains won't draw themselves :P
14:18:38  * andythenorth must pixles
14:19:08  <peter1138> The cheese was Gorgonzola Picante from Lidl... reduced to 69p, kinda wish I'd got more but then again I'd have to eat it.
14:19:25  <peter1138> One day I will run out of stuff to eat in my house. That will make things much easier
14:20:24  <rptr> oh man
14:20:37  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Phx01 commented on issue #7939: Feature Request: Moving/Relocating/Offsetting (Certain) Industries
14:20:56  <rptr> i opened a brand new bag of shredded cheese ("tex mex", expiry 11 february) and it tasted like gorgonzola. oh i figured it must be spicy for tex mex... no it was just normal cheese that had molded
14:20:58  <rptr> :|
14:21:29  <rptr> i always get reduced stuff at lidl but here they are useless at seeing the "REDUCED !!!!" sticker. i paid full price so many times
14:21:42  <rptr> last time i was too embarrassed to ask for my 1.5 euros back for the kiddie yoghurts
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14:23:08  <peter1138> Heh
14:23:38  <peter1138> Sometimes. This was "30%" off, from 99p to 69p. But the original price was £1.69 or something I think.
14:28:05  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7939: Feature Request: Moving/Relocating/Offsetting (Certain) Industries
14:29:16  <TrueBrain> glx: "Commit checker / Commit checker (pull_request) Successful in 18s" <- you got to love those times :)
14:31:20  <andythenorth> the best
14:32:25  <TrueBrain> so someone made a PR for AWS CDK to fix his use-case, completely destroying what I have build :D You got to love regressions ...
14:32:37  <TrueBrain> *wrote lengthy issue* :P
14:34:11  <nielsm> hm would it make sense to introduce a ScriptUserInterface class for GS just to hold a bunch of constants that don't feel like they belong in ScriptStoryPage ?
14:35:38  <nielsm> or add some stuff to ScriptWindow that is not generated? I wonder if that will work
14:37:20  <Samu> hi
14:41:44  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #145: Fix: links to documentation have changed
14:41:51  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: you had locations to change too you mentioned? ^^
14:42:10  <andythenorth>
14:42:20  * andythenorth reads the issue
14:42:23  <TrueBrain> I am just giving you the poke I promised ;)
14:43:00  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain opened pull request #3: Fix: links no longer need to have 'index.html' at the end
14:43:17  <andythenorth> think it's fine, nothing seems to need changed
14:43:34  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #145: Fix: links to documentation have changed
14:43:47  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/workflows] LordAro approved pull request #3: Fix: links no longer need to have 'index.html' at the end
14:44:40  <LordAro> speaking of food, i need to do my shopping before the shops close
14:45:09  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain merged pull request #3: Fix: links no longer need to have 'index.html' at the end
14:45:20  <TrueBrain> run LordAro, run!
14:45:29  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7947: Fix #7945: Add cost of clearing the sloped tile when placing a dock
14:45:47  <LordAro> TrueBrain: still got 75 minutes
14:45:54  <LordAro> shop is only 5 minute walk away
14:46:05  <TrueBrain> I am not here to judge how you shop :)
14:46:33  <LordAro> good :p
14:48:53  <Samu> is this still big? I recreated feature 2 of #7937 into its own
14:50:02  <peter1138> lol
14:50:15  <peter1138> Just pulled out a keyboard from the loft... and put a screen on the old server...
14:50:19  <peter1138> Yeah... Press F1 to continue.
14:50:44  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #145: Fix: links to documentation have changed
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15:15:07  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7937: Build on competitor canal
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15:34:40  <Samu> while I was spying builds, i found a problem with script_goal.cpp
15:34:42  <Samu>
15:35:27  <Samu> i didn't touch script_goal.cpp at all
15:42:08  <LordAro> Samu: known, it's a false positive warning
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15:59:25  <nielsm> stylish!!
16:05:06  <rptr> what's story book?
16:05:24  <nielsm> a way for game script to show information to the player
16:05:40  <rptr> you're making it?
16:05:42  <nielsm> and with this PR I'm working on also a way for it to interact with the player
16:06:01  <nielsm> the story book feature already exists, I'm working on adding clickable buttons as a new feature to it
16:06:37  <rptr> what would be an example?
16:06:39  <rptr> like in citybuilder
16:07:26  <nielsm> in citybuilder it could be using a button to select your destination city as an alternative to building HQ
16:08:07  <_dp_> as much as I like any gui for gs I've no idea what to do with those buttons xD
16:08:08  <nielsm> or maybe the citybuilder could award you for completing a goal, letting you pick one other city you want to get a rating boost in
16:08:44  <rptr> ok that's nice
16:08:51  <rptr> so it's basically letting you define GUIs in GS?
16:08:58  <rptr> can't you use the existing GUI?
16:09:04  <rptr> i mean, it looks like you "made your own" buttons?
16:09:58  <nielsm> GS can't do much with the GUI, it pretty much just has the goals list and the story book
16:09:59  * _dp_ actually wonders how many players ever read story book
16:10:20  <rptr> story book = that white book next to trophy button?
16:10:22  <nielsm> and newspapers
16:12:28  <_dp_> I've lost count to how many times I had to explain to player where company goals are
16:15:43  <rptr> lol
16:15:54  <nielsm> the documentation for doxygen is pretty bad imo
16:16:03  <nielsm> shame for it being a documentation tool
16:16:16  <rptr> lol
16:16:23  <rptr> shouldn't use it for that reaso
16:17:38  <TrueBrain> I need to provision the "" again; sadly, this means removing + creating, so it will be unavailable for a bit of time (~30 minutes). I hope everyone will survive :P
16:18:39  <peter1138> I think everyone will manage.
16:19:00  <peter1138> Can I just say... thank you for taking the time to do all this infrastructure work :D
16:19:01  <Borg> unless after provisioning. we will see 404..
16:19:01  <Borg> ;)
16:19:24  <TrueBrain> peter1138: you can ;) :D
16:20:56  <TrueBrain> and tnx :)
16:24:04  <TrueBrain> Borg: well, it is CloudFront, so no promises ... that is one hell of a weird service
16:24:33  <nielsm> I wonder if this will render right...
16:25:15  <TrueBrain> nielsm: why not just 2 variables? Why bitshift?
16:25:39  <nielsm> because of constraints of the existing design
16:26:29  <TrueBrain> during the initial development of the API, we tried to avoid these things, as users tend to not understand :D
16:28:27  <LordAro> agreed, better just to change the existing function (and provide compatibility patches)
16:29:02  <nielsm> that's 2 functions that need up to 3 more variations each then
16:30:01  <nielsm> or I can make 3 functions to produce a "magic" reference value that can be passed to the existing NewElement and UpdateElement functions
16:30:22  <nielsm> I suppose that's safer too, since it will work even if the packing needs to change
16:30:43  <TrueBrain> we do the same for things like Tile etc
16:30:52  <TrueBrain> script-builders should not care what the value is
16:31:38  <TrueBrain> okay, even deleting a CloudFront distribution takes for-ever .. oops ..
16:39:28  <nielsm> oh, it's also been almost a year since I reported this:
16:40:40  <peter1138> How many computers does one person need at home?
16:40:51  <nielsm> zero
16:44:31  <peter1138> I... have somewhat more than zero. Hmm.
16:44:47  <LordAro> do phones count?
16:45:45  <TrueBrain> do ESP8266 count?
16:45:52  <Wolf01> Hmmm, 5?
16:46:20  <TrueBrain> 21? :D
16:46:37  <peter1138> TrueBrain, oh god I'd forgotten about them!
16:46:42  <nielsm> right I'll do it like this:
16:46:52  <Wolf01> 8 if I count the phone
16:47:10  <TrueBrain> nielsm: uint32 as return value? Not a custom type? Just to make typing in the API more clear?
16:47:19  <glx> nielsm: intellisense is not smart with doxygen
16:47:38  <peter1138> Hmm, my DHCP lease table is... 37 items currently.
16:47:38  <LordAro> desktop + fileserver + phone + laptop
16:47:47  <nielsm> TrueBrain: yeah that's just the type for the reference parameter to the NewElement and UpdateElement functions
16:48:02  <LordAro> plus a few other things that probably wouldn't turn on without effort
16:48:08  <nielsm> would it work with just a typedef?
16:48:24  <Wolf01> peter1138: strange, I have only 17 on dhcp :P
16:48:26  <TrueBrain> bit too long ago for me to remember :D
16:48:37  <TrueBrain> but I know we do this more often, in the API type it, while it is uint32 in the backend
16:48:46  <TrueBrain> but a nice solution btw :)
16:48:48  <peter1138> Heck, I have 5 routers (3 are APs) :/
16:49:08  <TrueBrain> I even have computers monitoring the water-level of my plants :D
16:49:15  <TrueBrain> (and they still die, but who is counting)
16:49:15  <peter1138> Also one of my pis does not appear to expire arp entries.
16:49:24  <TrueBrain> pis, ofc, forgot about those ... 23!
16:49:48  <peter1138> 3 here. This one doing my shell duties, another just... sitting there, and another is a retropie.
16:50:05  <peter1138> 3 ESP8266 although they are not on or even programmed.
16:50:08  <TrueBrain> one connected to my 3D printer .. best investment ever
16:50:19  <TrueBrain> I have more than 10 ESP8266s ... I might have overdone it a bit :P
16:50:28  <peter1138> I get as far as thinking about a 3D printer but not actually getting one.
16:50:31  <TrueBrain> temp, water, light, CO2 .. so many sensors :D
16:50:35  <peter1138> Cheaper in bulk, though.
16:50:43  <TrueBrain> I needed something to put the ESPs in :P
16:50:48  <peter1138> Yeah :D
16:50:48  <TrueBrain> so I bought a 3D printer to do so ....
16:51:03  <peter1138> I... ought to replace my heating system. It's very old-school manual.
16:51:27  <peter1138> There's a thermostat on the wall that switches mains power, because there's no data signals.
16:52:07  <TrueBrain> nielsm: <- but that is not completely what you are looking for, I guess :)
16:52:09  <peter1138> I guess my lxc containers on my server don't count.
16:52:24  <peter1138> But I do have a piano PC, heh
16:52:25  <TrueBrain> if we start counting that peter1138, we are doomed :P
16:52:30  <peter1138> Yup
16:53:18  <peter1138> I need to figure out how to fix my old forums. When I move it from the old server (wheezy, lol) to the new one (buster) it fails :/
16:53:47  <peter1138> It is at least now running as a container.
16:54:03  <TrueBrain> \o/
16:55:44  <TrueBrain> what I found out with the ESPs .. that the world is talking a lot about IoT, but the software around it is really lacking
16:55:54  <TrueBrain> you have to build most things yourself ... which is stupid
16:57:08  <Wolf01> I'm (at work) writing a software for remote controlling systems based on ESP32 through mqtt
16:57:14  <peter1138> I had one ESP running temperature sensors, and pushing the data as mqtt over via. But the somehow the unit still operated its own wifi SSID.
16:57:26  <TrueBrain> I dont understand why people like ESP32 .. it is powerhungry, and adds little benefit over ESP8266 ..
16:58:06  <Wolf01> Because that's what the customer is using
16:58:22  <TrueBrain> sadly, ESP is also focusing on ESP32 ... meaning the RTOS of ESP8266 is a bit annoyingly supported
16:58:41  <Wolf01> Maybe that's the reason
16:58:57  <glx> IoT is often very unsecure
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16:59:20  <Wolf01> Yes, I'm really worried about that too
16:59:54  <TrueBrain> peter1138: the (closed source) firmware ESP makes is not of the best quality :P
16:59:59  <TrueBrain> like .. it really isn't
17:00:11  <glx> usually they think about features, not about safety
17:00:18  <Wolf01> Also they decided to base it on Google Cloud IoT
17:00:32  <TrueBrain> I was shocked how expensive all those IoT backbones are
17:00:50  <TrueBrain> also LoWaN is insanely expensive
17:02:11  <TrueBrain> but it is fun to toy around with, and build your own IoT network, I guess :)
17:02:29  <TrueBrain> one of the things I run into: via WEP I can drop a payload (measurement, what-ever) in 300ms
17:02:33  <TrueBrain> with WPA2, it takes ~2 seconds
17:02:47  <TrueBrain> somehow ... batteries deplete faster with WPA2 :P
17:03:03  <peter1138> More complex handshake.
17:03:20  <dwfreed> also 3des is a lot less CPU intensive than AES
17:03:44  *** Mazur has joined #openttd
17:03:53  <rptr> is there any AI that can "renovate" its tracks?
17:03:55  <rptr> also upgrade trains
17:04:10  <glx> to help player ?
17:04:18  <LordAro> trAIns upgrades, i think
17:04:19  <glx> no AIs are opponents
17:04:27  <rptr> no... for themselves
17:04:43  <glx> ah yes some may
17:04:57  <rptr> i suppose upgrade is not too hard, can be done without knowing which trains do what
17:05:05  <rptr> or i mean, without remembering what you did before
17:05:42  <glx> you need to know exaclty where the trains are
17:05:58  <glx> and send them to depots before ugrading tracks
17:07:06  * nielsm pokes DorpsGek
17:07:09  <TrueBrain> peter1138 / dwfreed: sadly, has little to do with that (it should be a bit slower, but not 7 times). It is the implementation that is at fault. which took me a while to figure out ..
17:07:18  <TrueBrain> what did DorpsGek do to you to deserve that poke?!
17:07:38  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7896: Feature: Push-buttons on storybook pages
17:08:30  <nielsm> I was actually just not watching my own console and didn't see git failed push because I had rebased
17:08:40  <TrueBrain> haha
17:08:47  <TrueBrain> happy to see DorpsGek could help :)
17:08:56  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
17:08:58  <glx> 11s commit checker, it's so fast
17:09:02  <rptr> can't you just get all trains, sendall to depot, upgrade *all* rail. then create new depots next to existing, and for each depot, take neighbouring depot, clone each train's orders, tada
17:09:19  *** glx has quit IRC
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17:11:24  <TrueBrain> right, docs are back .. took a lot longer than I wanted ... owh well
17:11:55  <TrueBrain> hmm .. fooooddddd
17:13:21  <rptr> someone wrote on the forum (eons ago) to nag TrueBrain to allow non-latest version dependencies :P
17:16:25  <andythenorth> what shall I look at on the internet?
17:16:59  <nielsm> birds
17:17:48  <nielsm> mine will be having their 5th birdthday this year
17:19:12  <rptr> what kind of bird
17:19:30  <nielsm> I have two male cockatiels
17:19:36  <rptr> i want a cockatrice
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17:19:59  <peter1138> Meh, wish I could stop eating today. Still going to have dinner but will miss the enjoyment of it.
17:20:01  <rptr> don't they make a lot of noise?
17:20:19  <rptr> oh niels is danish. that's nice
17:21:05  <rptr> peter1138, you should ask nielsm to send you some danish pastries
17:24:20  * andythenorth is hungry
17:24:25  <andythenorth> I failed at lunch
17:24:44  <LordAro> andythenorth: what a noob
17:24:51  <peter1138> I mean... I failed oppositely.
17:25:04  <peter1138> Combine our failures.
17:25:12  <nielsm> yes parrots have a very simple functioning: input food, output noise and poop
17:25:21  <peter1138> That's... me.
17:25:50  <nielsm> some also take scritches as input, and some will produce destruction
17:26:25  <rptr> oh hey peter1138, at Lidl in the baking section, do they have this danish pastry "cake" which is huge?
17:26:27  <rptr> buy it
17:26:39  <rptr> ok i am teasing you now
17:27:42  <andythenorth> peter1138: :|
17:27:43  <nielsm> reminder that "danish pastries" as produced outside denmark are typically only vaguely similar to what you purchse in bakeries in denmark
17:27:58  <rptr> yes but "dagmartarte" is genuine here :P
17:28:12  <rptr> i can confirm that danish pastries outside denmark are worthless and i never eat them unless i go to denmark
17:28:23  <andythenorth> where is pikka bob?
17:28:26  <andythenorth> I have train questions
17:29:28  <peter1138> IRON MAIDEN time
17:29:50  * LordAro tries losing at tanks a bit more
17:30:12  <andythenorth> this or this?
17:30:16  <andythenorth> LordAro: which tanks? :P
17:30:22  <LordAro> WoT tanks
17:30:25  <rptr> superlib doesn't have a rail pathfinder?
17:30:29  <andythenorth> the full version?
17:30:32  <andythenorth> not Blitz?
17:30:33  <LordAro> aye
17:30:37  <andythenorth> are the games quite long?
17:31:04  <LordAro> the timelimit on them is 15min, they're usually not more than 10
17:31:07  <rptr> andythenorth, are you obsessed with trains?
17:31:19  <rptr> who is the guy on the forum with "my last train journey was..."
17:31:19  <andythenorth> I'm obsessed with drawing trains
17:31:31  <andythenorth> actual RL trains I like, but am far from obsessed with
17:31:48  <rptr> i used to take a 4 hour train regularly, so many people told me they were jealous :P
17:31:49  <andythenorth> if I go to a heritage railway or something, it mostly actually bores me
17:32:01  <peter1138> My last train journey was... to London. How unexciting.
17:32:12  <rptr> the best train i tried was in the balkans/eastern europe, romania, bulgaria
17:32:15  <rptr> super-old timey trains
17:32:19  <andythenorth> used to be more fun when you could stick your head out of the window
17:32:23  <rptr> that
17:32:31  <andythenorth> now they're like a mobile starbucks
17:32:46  <LordAro> can confirm
17:32:59  <rptr> i remember drinking Romanian toilet water on that train journey. lol
17:33:03  <andythenorth> also, WoT game length is quite short eh?
17:33:05  <andythenorth> but the maps are big?
17:33:06  <rptr> i am sure that will kill me in 10 yeras
17:33:13  <andythenorth> Blitz is about 6 minutes I think
17:35:17  <LordAro> andythenorth: depends on the map, but you can usually cross it in no more than 30s
17:35:26  <andythenorth> wow
17:35:28  <LordAro> but yeah, usually i die very quickly and switch to another tank
17:35:33  <LordAro> like now
17:35:41  <andythenorth> I can't cross most blitz maps in 30s
17:35:47  <andythenorth> but I mostly drive T95
17:35:53  <LordAro> not necessarily *safely* in 30s
17:36:01  <LordAro> you're quite liable to get blown up before you cross the map :p
17:36:28  <andythenorth> oof
17:36:35  <andythenorth> there's no mac WoT
17:36:39  <andythenorth> otherwise I'd try it
17:45:04  <peter1138> boatspeed 4
17:58:12  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Phx01 commented on issue #7939: Feature Request: Moving/Relocating/Offsetting (Certain) Industries
18:08:04  * LordAro bored of losing
18:08:17  <andythenorth> Blitz gets that way
18:08:26  <andythenorth> seems to generate losing streaks :P
18:08:29  <andythenorth> what's your WR?
18:09:29  <Eddi|zuHause> Bored of Losing? Try Frostpunk :p
18:09:48  <LordAro> andythenorth: likely barely above 50%
18:10:15  <andythenorth> mine bounces between 40% and 70% for any given few days
18:10:26  <andythenorth> 60%+ is just more fun to play :P
18:11:08  <andythenorth> sometimes it's the teams, sometimes it' :|
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18:58:13  <TrueBrain> Doxygen tries to load a Javascript file that doesn't exist ..
18:58:17  <TrueBrain> that is generating a lot of 404s :)
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19:04:46  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: return True; ?
19:06:03  <TrueBrain> I wonder why Doxygen is doing that, tbh
19:06:08  <TrueBrain> sounds like a boo-boo
19:19:36  *** JGR_ has quit IRC
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20:00:52  <nielsm> hm is there an existing type that'a a bitfield of vehicle types?
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20:11:31  <TrueBrain> right, 2 hours later .. and I think I finally can redirect domains to another on AWS :P Nothing is easy
20:11:46  <TrueBrain> Doxygen is weird .. for the AI/GS docs, it doesn't generate all javascript files it does refer to in the HTML
20:11:55  <TrueBrain> when you google this, more people have issues with it
20:12:02  <TrueBrain> but ... not really a clear picture why it happens
20:12:07  <TrueBrain> it is annoying for sure
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20:15:41  <rptr> hmph. the AI pathfinder library is so slow even at a distance of like 10 tiles. hm
20:15:45  <rptr> is it really A-star?
20:16:31  <TrueBrain> <- well, it is debian/ubuntu specific ... perfect ...
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20:20:49  <nielsm> rptr: I don't think squirrel is especially fast, really...
20:20:52  <nielsm> :s
20:20:57  <rptr> hmph
20:21:04  <rptr> i dunno. some things seem fast
20:22:05  <TrueBrain> I FOUND THE UNICORN!
20:22:15  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain opened pull request #42: Fix: workaround a bug in a Debian patch for Doxygen
20:22:48  <rptr> tbh a super-simple DFS algorithm would almost be okay. just keep going until you get there. you'll get an awfully long path potentially but it'll look nice
20:22:48  <andythenorth> lol pathfinder has a really dumb edge case
20:23:00  <rptr> and hopefully there will be no major obstacles so you can basically go straight ahead
20:23:05  <andythenorth> stations A and B, two equal distance routes between them
20:23:09  <rptr> i mean, how often did you build a railway line where you had to make lots of turns
20:23:12  <andythenorth> waypoints 1 and 2
20:23:24  <andythenorth> train has orders to go A->1->B
20:23:41  <andythenorth> it goes A->B->1 (because it can loop back at B)
20:24:25  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] nielsmh approved pull request #42: Fix: workaround a bug in a Debian patch for Doxygen
20:24:34  <rptr> i will look into D*. it seems perfect for OpenTTD. it deals with changes in the path. make the shortest, when you reach an obstacle that wasn't there before, recalculate from that point. but it's basically a-star where you recalculate i guess
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20:24:49  <rptr> andythenorth, i was talking about the AI pathfinder library :P
20:24:59  <rptr> they are not necessarily exactly the same though i think both implement the same algorithm
20:25:16  <rptr> but that sounds very stupid andy
20:25:34  <rptr> can't it be solved with more waypoints? i never had that problem
20:25:43  <andythenorth> I am adding more waypoints :)
20:26:15  <rptr> add a waypoint to each rail tile
20:28:50  <Eddi|zuHause> rptr: there are some artificial limitations to slow down AIs that attempt to do expensive/long calculations
20:29:31  <rptr> ok. only in the openttd source, not in the library i guess?
20:29:40  <nielsm> yes
20:29:40  <Eddi|zuHause> rptr: and also things that alter map state are generally suspended for one whole tick
20:30:14  <nielsm> scripts have a max number of ops they can run per tick, with some banking going on I think
20:30:30  <rptr> i suppose i could turn that into a setting?
20:30:31  <nielsm> and depending on difficulty settings, AI scripts only run every N ticks instead of every tick
20:30:45  <rptr> since AI is basically a singleplayer thing and it doesn't affect people if you want to turbo-charge your AI
20:30:50  <Eddi|zuHause> rptr: i'm pretty sure that is a setting, but you can only edit it in the .cfg/console
20:30:52  <rptr> oh yes. i saw that. i forgot
20:31:01  <rptr> ok thanks. will have to remember
20:31:11  <rptr> by .cfg/console you mean my .openttd/... folder?
20:31:31  <rptr> oh. .cfg || console
20:31:38  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
20:31:43  <rptr> thanks
20:33:44  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain merged pull request #42: Fix: workaround a bug in a Debian patch for Doxygen
20:33:46  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain pushed 1 commits to master
20:33:46  <DorpsGek_III_>   - Fix: workaround a bug in a Debian patch for Doxygen (#42) (by TrueBrain)
20:35:43  <rptr> shouldn't IsBuildableRectangle make sure that there is no existing building?
20:36:18  <TrueBrain> w00p, and no longer go over the old infrastructure :)
20:36:21  <TrueBrain> getting there!
20:36:26  <TrueBrain> right, what next ...
20:36:52  <nielsm> yes IsBuildableRectangle just check if all tiles in the rectangle are buildable
20:37:10  <rptr> buildable meaning
20:37:29  <Samu> check openttd code for that
20:37:30  <rptr> my ai wants to build on the same spot as it did before
20:38:16  <rptr> ok let's get rid of all documentation
20:39:20  <Samu> :)
20:40:14  <rptr> it's very strange cause it worked before...
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20:54:31  <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7896: Feature: Push-buttons on storybook pages
20:55:08  <peter1138> Hi
20:56:50  <glx> rptr: maybe the town refused
20:59:28  <rptr> no. it built a station, then it looks for a new location, and it picks the exact same one...
20:59:31  <rptr> it seems.
21:01:52  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like an error in your AI
21:02:09  <Eddi|zuHause> like, using the wrong variable
21:05:54  <rptr> yep
21:10:32  <Samu> a new ai is coming?
21:15:30  <Samu> meanwhile, im testing 15 CivilAIs in a 2kx2k map
21:18:57  <rptr> :D
21:19:01  <rptr> that sounds really nice
21:19:24  <rptr> it's a cooperative AI (you have cheat to put yourself in the same team)
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21:20:03  <rptr> but it's for my own filthy uses anyway
21:20:18  <rptr> considering how shit it is i don't think anyone will want it
21:21:34  <rptr> should have just adapted choochoo. that worked
21:25:38  <rptr> tho. once i have the coop parts done i could just make it play solo...
21:26:54  <Samu> 3 CivilAis still started near each other, given the map size :(
21:27:13  <Samu> random not being that kind of random
21:28:08  <rptr> presumably it has some certain starting strategy
21:37:22  <Samu> testing my openttd build
21:37:34  <Samu> I like it for testing AIs on it
21:40:21  <Samu> ah, the list of changes :o
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21:49:11  <Samu> which other AIs work well with multiple instances?
21:49:44  <Samu> aka, random picks
21:50:07  <Samu> hmm simpleai i think
21:58:06  <andythenorth> bed
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22:02:30  <peter1138> Oh, hmm. php url rewriting apparently messes up with php-fpm :/
22:12:08  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
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22:17:30  <Eddi|zuHause> "php url rewriting" sounds like the start of a thriller movie
22:17:40  <Borg> ;D
22:17:55  <Borg> PHP is generally scary..
22:17:56  <Eddi|zuHause> where i'm not sure if it later turns into a spy movie or a doomsday movie
22:18:30  <Borg>
22:18:31  <Borg> ;)
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22:20:19  <peter1138> Oh, it doesn't mess it up. AllowOverrides None messes it up :p
22:20:37  <peter1138> Apparently AllowOverrides in a vhost section isn't working. Hmm.
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22:46:40  <rptr> what's a nice AI to look at?
22:46:57  <rptr> i guess i'll try simple, to see the original behaviour
22:51:44  <rptr> wow. simpleai is so cute
22:54:04  <FLHerne> AIAI used to be the one to beat, ChooChoo might have beaten it by now
22:54:40  <FLHerne> If you look at CivilAI, you can ask Pikka how it works whenever he shows up here next
22:56:08  <rptr> "the one to beat" as in try to beat in singleplayer?
22:56:34  <rptr> oh i can read the code and all. and i understand the idea with civil. i just wanted to look at some *in action* to see if they make nice things
22:56:44  <rptr> like, complex networks
22:56:56  <rptr> simpleai is cute though
22:57:07  <rptr> choochoo is my reference AI whose code i look at
22:58:24  <FLHerne> Years ago, when I played with AIs, AIAI was the only one remotely capable of keeping up with a human player
22:58:33  <FLHerne> The others were just hopeless
22:58:47  <FLHerne> That might have changed since :P
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22:59:41  <FLHerne> ChooChoo is the only one I remember seeing that builds really-joined-up networks
22:59:57  <FLHerne> WmDOT builds roads, but it mostly does that for its own sake
23:00:11  <rptr> yeah. choochoo does that, but it's not that good :/ i mean it's impressive that it does even what it does i suppose
23:00:25  <FLHerne> i.e. its purpose is to connect towns with roads, and to make profit only in order to build more roads
23:00:27  <rptr> maybe i should scrap what i have, read all of choochoo and try to improve upon it
23:00:35  <rptr> i am basically copying choochoo with some differences and using superlib
23:00:43  <rptr> LOL
23:00:49  <rptr> (roads)
23:00:52  <rptr> i like that in an AI though
23:01:00  <rptr> i wrote one that turns the world into water
23:01:09  <rptr> i figured you can combine that with ShipAI
23:01:25  <FLHerne>
23:01:26  <rptr> unfortunately ShipAI can't make enough money to remove more than 10 tiles of land a year. lol
23:01:33  <rptr> LOL
23:01:38  <rptr> Version 6: now with fewer roads
23:01:45  <rptr> i like that network though
23:01:54  <FLHerne> [the odd gaps are tunnels/bridges, probably]
23:02:20  <FLHerne> (from - the changelog says "Builds less of a road mess in late game")
23:02:22  <rptr> what i'm doing, that i think ChooChoo is not, is saving all stations and networks, so that later i can see. ok i want to add this station to the fold, well it seems there's a network, let's add to it. while choochoo seems do something similar,  but once it has finished a network task-
23:02:31  <rptr> i think it basically forgets its whole network. but maybe i'm wrong. i didn't read it all
23:02:42  <rptr> tbh i like an AI that goes crazy
23:02:51  <rptr> supposedly AdmiralAI and DictatorAI are good
23:03:26  <rptr> i tried both but they didn't exactly blow me away. i mean if we are talking AIs making more money than players, you should just have it make longtrains+longlines
23:04:08  <FLHerne> That way leads to "build airports in diagonally-opposite corners of the map, ..."
23:04:14  <rptr> ah ok
23:04:20  <rptr> well, if it was just making a difficult one
23:04:41  <rptr> airports should be banned from AI anyway :P
23:04:54  <FLHerne> IMO, there's a point in OTTD where making money optimally becomes a daft goal
23:06:31  <rptr> well once you have more money than you can spend it stops mattering
23:08:32  <FLHerne> Yeah
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23:13:01  <supermop_Home> yo
23:14:27  <FLHerne> oy
23:14:49  <rptr> hm. i should try a straight clean game against an ai
23:15:08  <rptr> supposedly LudiAI is good
23:15:38  <FLHerne> Samu spent a lot of time running head-to-head AI comparisons to see which one would "win"
23:15:47  <rptr> yeah i saw some website about that.
23:15:52  <FLHerne> (in terms of money, I think, or rating)
23:16:07  <rptr> wow. that's so nasty! ludiai or admiralai used the other AIs road network! :P
23:16:19  <rptr> there is one big road connecting 3 cities. and 1 of them made it, the other one is leeching. nice
23:17:52  <FLHerne> <Samu> WormAI 1st, RailwAI 2nd, LuDiAI AfterFix 3rd, NoNoCAB 4th, SnakeAI 5th, ShipAI 6th, CivilAI 7th
23:17:55  <FLHerne>
23:18:48  <rptr> trains is very strong
23:19:04  <rptr> oh. i'm not testing worm. railwai though
23:20:53  <rptr> 1well for me trAIns is kicking ass in the early game
23:22:35  <rptr> but civilai is the nicest
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23:28:17  <supermop_Home> any good 1.10 games going on?
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23:46:42  <hythlodaeus> hi
23:54:43  <rptr> ok. LudiAI went crazy from one moment to the next, bought 200 planes, and is leading
23:54:46  <rptr> trAIns stagnated
23:57:19  <hythlodaeus> we should implement carbon emission caps to balance planes ahah

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