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00:00:47 *** cHawk- has joined #openttd 00:06:54 *** cHawk has quit IRC 00:17:45 <LordAro> Speeder_: look at other usages of it, you should be able to work out how it works and what it's doing 00:18:00 <LordAro> and more importantly, the correct parameters to give to it 00:24:01 <Gadg8eer> So, I've been told to follow these instructions to get the "make" command working... https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/Setting_up_a_Windows_compile_environment_using_WSL 00:24:52 <Gadg8eer> I installed it on my normal windows user, but it looks like it has to be installed as an admin. 00:26:53 <Gadg8eer> I went for a walk and then tried to follow the steps on my admin account, but it looks like Microsoft removed Ubuntu from the store within the last 3 hours, because... https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/ubuntu/9nblggh4msv6 00:27:34 <Gadg8eer> ...I'm getting a message that the page no longer exists. 00:27:54 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> How do I construct places where streetcars can do u-turns? 00:34:51 <glx> Gadg8eer: the page works here 00:36:19 <Gadg8eer> That's odd. 00:37:07 <Gadg8eer> Temporary outage, apparently. Sorry to bother you all. 00:40:44 <glx> ply and nml steps in this wiki are outdated 00:41:09 <glx> I think you probably just need "pip install nml" 00:44:29 <glx> well "pip install nml==0.4.5" is probably better if you want to compile an old grf 00:48:05 <Gadg8eer> No, I need make because I'm trying to compile OpenGFX Mars Habitats. 00:48:40 <glx> yes but you'll need nml in wsl env 00:50:09 <Gadg8eer> So when I get to NML in the instructions I should use "pip install NML"? 00:50:12 <Speeder_> LordAro, I tried that but I don't know not even what to search for, to find other usages 00:51:02 <glx> yes and ignore ply step, installing nml will get the deps 00:52:14 <glx> and I think for opengfx+ mars you'll need a pre-0.5 version so "pip install nml==0.4.5" 00:52:25 <Gadg8eer> Can I safely ignore TortoiseHG? It's giving an error when I use "sudo apt-get install TortoiseHG"... 00:53:07 <Gadg8eer> Sorry, that's in all lowercase when I type it. 00:53:17 <Gadg8eer> Stupid autocorrect. 00:54:34 <glx> replace this step with "pip install mercurial" 00:58:08 *** derF has quit IRC 00:58:34 <Gadg8eer> It says "Command 'pip' not found, but there are 18 similar ones." 00:59:00 <glx> ah of course pip is not installed 00:59:55 <glx> sudo apt-get install python3-pip 01:03:05 <Gadg8eer> "Package 'python3-pip' has no installation candidate" 01:03:51 <Gadg8eer> "Package python3-pip is not available, but is referred to by another package." 01:04:32 <glx> https://packages.ubuntu.com/focal/python/python3-pip <-- but it exists 01:05:33 <Gadg8eer> Then why won't it install? 01:08:37 <Gadg8eer> I don't know what's wrong, I typed in exactly "sudo apt-get install python3-pip". 01:13:25 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> More of a gameplay-related question than a technical one - how do I get my trucks and buses to not travel all the way to the ends of roads? 01:13:34 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> Or do I have to construct places for them to turn around? 01:15:10 <Gadg8eer> A turn around must either be a dead end (1x1 tile) or a loop (2x2 tile). 01:15:52 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> I see. 01:15:54 <Gadg8eer> So yeah, you have to construct places to u-turn. 01:16:03 <Eddi|zuHause> they won't turn around in the middle of the road, just at the end 01:16:35 <Gadg8eer> Unless you manually click the u-turn button, but that can't be automatically done via orders. 01:17:29 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> I guess that makes sense. Otherwise everyone would be doing that. 01:17:44 <Gadg8eer> Any solution, glx ? 01:18:07 <glx> I don't see what's wrong 01:18:49 <Gadg8eer> Is it now called python3-pil? Because that installed something. 01:19:57 <glx> no pil is something else 01:20:35 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> Should I focus on a specific region of the map or expand as much as possible? 01:21:02 <glx> hmm maybe universe repo is not enabled by default 01:21:18 <Gadg8eer> How do I enable it? 01:23:09 <glx> sudo add-apt-repository universe 01:24:00 <Gadg8eer> It says it's already enabled. 01:25:24 <Gadg8eer> Can you try doing it? Maybe it's not on my end. 01:25:44 <glx> maybe "sudo apt-get update" is needed on first start of wsl 01:26:16 <glx> and no I'm not planning to try wsl 01:26:39 <Gadg8eer> Alright, let's see if update works... 01:26:43 <glx> I already have msys2/mingw when I need make 01:27:07 <Gadg8eer> It works! 01:27:16 <Gadg8eer> Thank you! 01:28:20 <glx> usually before installing anything with apt the first step is always "apt-get update" but the coop wiki is missing it 01:32:18 <Gadg8eer> "pip install mercurial" still doesn't work, but "sudo apt-get install mercurial" did. 01:32:30 <Gadg8eer> Does that make sense? 01:34:07 <Gadg8eer> Same deal with NML. 01:56:20 <glx> ah yes nml is available in apt 01:59:30 <glx> oh it's pip3 not pip, silly naming, but makes sense 02:02:01 <glx> anyway not needed finally 02:08:18 *** keoz has joined #openttd 02:26:45 <Eddi|zuHause> <Wrench_In_The_Plan> Also, what world generation settings should I use if I want a mix between size and not taking too long to save? <- i'd say 512x512 is plenty of space. i once played a game on 1024x2048 with sparse town and barely covered half the map. the smallest meaningful game i played on a 128x256 map 02:27:05 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> All right. 02:31:15 <Gadg8eer> So I'm trying to use a batch file to compile OpenGFX Mars Houses and it's not working. Here's my batch file, someone please just edit it to what it should be... 02:32:04 <Gadg8eer> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/FzXZYDjy/build.bat 02:33:19 <Eddi|zuHause> where you wrote "PAUSE" it should have said "PROFIT" :p 02:37:05 <glx> can't you just type make in wsl shell ? 02:39:11 <Gadg8eer> "No targets specified and no makefile found." 02:39:24 <Gadg8eer> I tried cd, didn't work. 02:40:10 <Gadg8eer> I assume I need to move the source folder into a place where Linux can read it? 02:40:40 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:40:48 <glx> where is the actual location ? 02:40:59 <glx> you may need to adapt the path 02:41:24 <Eddi|zuHause> the working directory must be the one that contains the "Makefile" 02:41:33 <Gadg8eer> C:\TTDTools\GRFs\OpenGFX_Mars_Late_Start\opengfx-mars-houses-5a67ec641605 02:41:49 <glx> I think it should be /mnt/c/TTDTools... 02:42:28 <Gadg8eer> Where is the mnt folder? 02:42:38 <Gadg8eer> Or is that a command? 02:42:42 <glx> in wsl 02:42:47 <glx> cd /mnt/c 02:42:52 <Eddi|zuHause> /mnt is not a real folder 02:42:54 <glx> will move you to c: 02:43:48 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a placeholder to fit the windows drive letters in, which linux has no concept of 02:44:56 <Gadg8eer> cd /mnt/TTDTools/GRFs/OpenGFX_Mars_Late_Start/opengfx-mars-houses-5a67ec641605 didn't work. 02:45:23 <Gadg8eer> Oh. 02:45:29 <Gadg8eer> Okay, I see. 02:45:38 <glx> you forgot /c/ 02:45:44 *** gnu_jj has quit IRC 02:46:57 <Gadg8eer> Oh boy. Added /c/ but I just opened a whole other can of worms. 02:47:07 <Gadg8eer> Hold on, let me post the output. 02:47:51 <Gadg8eer> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/wFm5GjaG/output.txt 02:48:38 <glx> ah yes, nml 0.4.5 is a pain 02:49:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that's good, though, because that means it went properly through most of the other steps before 02:49:12 <glx> and nml 0.5 will fail too because mars-houses source is too old 02:49:29 <glx> but indeed it means your setup is working 02:49:38 <Gadg8eer> Okay, that's good. 02:49:44 <Gadg8eer> So now what? 02:50:13 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a somewhat simple edit to nmlc 0.4 for the "clock" error 02:50:51 *** debdog has joined #openttd 02:50:54 <glx> easier way will be "pip3 install https://github.com/openttd/nml.git" 02:51:08 <glx> you'll get the current nml 02:51:58 <Eddi|zuHause> <FLHerne> blat.hijs: If it's just time.clock, making 0.4.5 run is trivial (`sed -i 's/time\.clock/time\.process_time/' nml/generic.py`) 02:52:37 *** keoz has quit IRC 02:52:38 <glx> but nml files are hidden in system files 02:52:46 <Gadg8eer> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/7fJqRX6S/error.txt 02:52:51 *** keoz has joined #openttd 02:53:48 <glx> ok same command but git+https://.. 02:54:11 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 02:55:29 <Gadg8eer> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/9DhPjFuW/warning.txt 02:55:37 <Gadg8eer> It worked but... 02:55:44 <Gadg8eer> See the above warning. 02:56:00 <Gadg8eer> Should I add to my path? 02:56:16 <Gadg8eer> I remember the path thing from installing NML 02:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know how people would edit the path on WSL, normally you'd edit ~/.profile or something 02:57:33 <Eddi|zuHause> but there's like 20 different ways on linux 02:57:41 <glx> should be the same with wsl, it's ubuntu 02:57:54 <Gadg8eer> Huh. Well, the error from before is still showing up when I use make. 02:58:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, because it's still using the old nmlc 02:58:19 <Eddi|zuHause> because the new one is not in your path 02:59:22 <Gadg8eer> So then how do I add it to my path? 02:59:27 <Eddi|zuHause> what also could work is something like "make NMLC=/blah/bin/nmlc" 02:59:44 <Eddi|zuHause> but that is only a temporary measure 03:00:45 <Gadg8eer> I'd rather fix it permanently. 03:01:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i already said everything i could about how to do that 03:02:29 <Gadg8eer> Alright, then temporary it is. How do I do that? NMLC=/? 03:02:42 <Gadg8eer> Which folder do I refer it to? 03:03:05 <glx> it's NML (just checked the makefile) 03:03:21 <glx> and you can add it to Makefile.config 03:03:48 <glx> NML=/home/kidpunk/.local/bin/nmlc 03:03:57 <Eddi|zuHause> you literally posted the folder like 10 minutes ago 03:04:45 <glx> but futureproof solution would be to add this bin dir in front of $PATH 03:05:53 <Gadg8eer> How would I do that? 03:06:16 <Gadg8eer> Also, looks like there's an issue in the header, going to take a look. 03:06:48 <Gadg8eer> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/y0gvukr5/error2.txt 03:08:00 <Gadg8eer> Looks like this is where the issue is... 03:08:02 <Gadg8eer> version: NEWGRF_VERSION; 03:08:24 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, need to reset the nml parser cache 03:08:28 <glx> this line seems right, unless NEWGRF_VERSION was empty 03:12:01 <glx> what's the output of ./findversion.sh ? 03:12:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i had this error as well after updating nmlc, it went away when i ran it with -D once 03:13:18 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno how the parser is cached usually 03:13:59 <glx> the issue here is the line seen by nmlc is probably version: ; 03:14:21 <glx> as this variable is replaced by cpp 03:15:02 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, that could be a problem, if the output is empty 03:16:00 <Eddi|zuHause> nmlc could use better error reporting 03:16:24 <Gadg8eer> It probably is empty. Tbh, I don't need to use the version system originally used, since I plan to make this usable as a "future building set". 03:17:11 <Eddi|zuHause> you still need *some* version system 03:17:37 <Gadg8eer> Is it okay to replace it with 1 since it's the first version? 03:18:01 <glx> yes it should work 03:18:29 <Eddi|zuHause> it'll probably make it compile, but you don't want to change the version manually on every commit 03:18:43 <glx> but also change the GRFID if you plan to modify it 03:19:20 <Gadg8eer> Alright. Now I'm looking at something confusing. Even though I have a graphics folder with all the needed graphics... 03:19:44 <Gadg8eer> nmlc ERROR: Path "/mnt/c/TTDTools/GRFs/OpenGFX_Mars_Late_Start/opengfx-mars-houses-5a67ec641605/../graphics" does not exist (even after case conversions) 03:20:36 <glx> then graphics is not at the right place 03:21:03 <glx> it should be next to opengfx-mars 03:21:40 <Eddi|zuHause> probably a wrong working directory somewhere 03:22:30 <Gadg8eer> Oh. I see the issue. Everything is being directed to ../graphics/... Instead of /graphics/... 03:23:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably expecting to be run in the src/ directory, but isn't 03:23:33 <glx> well for opengfx-mars, graphics is a separated place 03:24:01 <glx> so graphics must be in the same level as opengfx-mars 03:24:12 *** gnu_jj has joined #openttd 03:25:31 <glx> wow it's late (or early) 03:25:35 <glx> I should sleep 03:25:49 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 03:25:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 03:27:21 *** glx has quit IRC 03:32:43 *** tokai has quit IRC 03:34:31 <Gadg8eer> It works! 03:34:54 <Gadg8eer> Now I just need to move the changes to the modified version. 03:37:08 <Eddi|zuHause> hold your horses. 03:37:26 <Eddi|zuHause> you still need to fix the path, and find out why findversion.sh is returning empty strings 04:08:29 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 04:10:28 *** Wrench_In_The_Plan has quit IRC 05:30:02 *** Wrench_In_The_Plan has joined #openttd 05:35:38 <Speeder_> how I create a tileid from x and y? 05:35:41 <Speeder_> to use in a GS 06:05:04 * LordAro wonders if glx & Eddi|zuHause actually sleep 06:05:24 <LordAro> Speeder_: searching for instances of "seprintf" wouls be an excellent start 06:05:53 <LordAro> learning to navigate source code is an important skill, i'm not going to spoon feed it to you 06:12:41 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:27:14 <Speeder_> LordAro, I wanted to know if seprintf is the correct way to create signs in first place 06:27:47 <Speeder_> since you told me to search for them, I guess I can assume seprintf IS used to create signs after all. and that is what I needed to know. 06:37:34 *** Wrench_In_The_Plan has quit IRC 06:39:11 <Gadg8eer> Hey, Eddie? The NewGRF seems to work, but I'm not ignoring you. How can I check to make sure everything is okay? 06:41:32 <Gadg8eer> Eddi|zuHause: What should I look for to get find version.sh working? 06:49:04 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:54:30 <andythenorth> o/ 06:55:04 <LordAro> Speeder_: the fact that you're asking that question shows you don't understand what you're doing - seprintf has nothing (directly) to do with signs 06:55:21 <LordAro> mornin andy 07:03:38 <andythenorth> yo 07:07:56 <andythenorth> I have to stop reading the issues feed 07:08:06 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/8168#issuecomment-634252673 makes me want to leave OpenTTD :) 07:08:14 <andythenorth> such a waste of fucking time 07:08:52 <LordAro> lol 07:43:07 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 07:45:43 <andythenorth> these cost bugs :) 07:45:54 <andythenorth> I know they're not 'correct' 07:46:16 <andythenorth> but the effect on gameplay is approximately equivalent to the random errors your CPU sometimes makes 07:48:32 *** Samu has joined #openttd 07:51:10 <LordAro> andythenorth: maybe we should add priority labels to issues 07:51:34 <LordAro> nothing more than low/medium/high/urgent 07:54:53 *** cHawk- has quit IRC 08:06:35 *** arikover has joined #openttd 08:12:30 *** Xaroth0 has joined #openttd 08:13:34 *** Hobbyboy has joined #openttd 08:13:59 *** Execthts has joined #openttd 08:15:05 *** Heili has joined #openttd 08:15:15 *** moll has joined #openttd 08:15:30 *** Smedles_ has joined #openttd 08:15:49 *** duckfullstop has joined #openttd 08:15:51 *** Exec has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** DorpsGek has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** Smedles has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** planetmaker has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** avdg has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** Guest25778 has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** XeryusTC has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** V453000 has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** luaduck has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** blathijs has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** labs[m] has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** dude[m] has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** khavik[m] has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** freu[m] has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** karl[m] has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** natalie[m]1 has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** albert[m] has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** Hobbyboy|BNC has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** Aileen[m] has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** arron[m] has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** julie[m] has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** vanessa[m] has quit IRC 08:15:51 *** robert[m]1 has quit IRC 08:15:52 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 08:15:52 *** Xaroth has quit IRC 08:15:52 *** Alkel__U3 has quit IRC 08:15:52 *** m811 has quit IRC 08:15:52 *** Heiki has quit IRC 08:15:52 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 08:15:52 *** ericnoan has quit IRC 08:15:52 *** Mek has quit IRC 08:15:52 *** welterde has quit IRC 08:15:52 *** Heili is now known as Heiki 08:16:45 *** Mek has joined #openttd 08:17:23 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd 08:18:23 *** Yexo has joined #openttd 08:18:23 *** avdg has joined #openttd 08:18:31 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 08:18:53 *** V453000 has joined #openttd 08:19:01 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd 08:19:01 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker 08:19:17 *** ericnoan has joined #openttd 08:20:59 *** keoz has quit IRC 08:21:03 *** keoz has joined #openttd 08:21:04 *** keoz has quit IRC 08:21:33 *** keoz has joined #openttd 08:22:03 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I don't understand why you care 08:23:04 <FLHerne> It's pointless and uninteresting, but clearly *someone* cares about it 08:23:35 <andythenorth> I seem to be a lot more completionist than average 08:23:40 <FLHerne> And it's presumably trivial to fix, should anyone both care and know C++ 08:23:42 <andythenorth> to me a ticket is a thing that needs to be done 08:23:56 <andythenorth> the goal is to get out of life with no tickets left 08:23:58 <Samu> hi 08:24:12 <FLHerne> That seems silly 08:24:18 <andythenorth> programmers seem to see tickets more as 'lists of interesting things' 08:24:39 <FLHerne> Yeah, if you run out of tickets it means no-one's using your thing 08:24:58 <FLHerne> Because people report whatever bugs them most, even if it's trivial 08:25:23 <andythenorth> do you not avoid, e.g. projects on Github with sprawling issue counts? 08:25:29 <andythenorth> maybe that's just me 08:25:40 <FLHerne> So trivial issues are probably a good thing, because it means someone's unhappy about *that* and not their computer crashing 08:25:48 <FLHerne> No 08:26:07 *** cHawk- has joined #openttd 08:26:18 <FLHerne> No issues mean that no-one's actually used the thing 08:26:33 <LordAro> andythenorth: i don't really look at issue numbers, just whether the most recent few have had any activity on them 08:26:37 *** Alkel__U3 has joined #openttd 08:26:47 <andythenorth> I always look 08:26:48 <FLHerne> So when *I* use it, it'll probably blow up and no-one will be able to help me with it 08:27:05 *** welterde has joined #openttd 08:27:06 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd 08:27:17 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 08:27:24 <andythenorth> sprawling issues is a good sign of really poor attitude to housekeeping the project 08:27:31 <andythenorth> which probably means it's full of CVEs 08:27:48 <FLHerne> I mean, if the top issues are "aargh this ate my cat and emailed my SSL keys", then nope 08:27:49 <andythenorth> and is likely to have a poor release strategy 08:28:12 <FLHerne> I think your argument is circular 08:28:47 <andythenorth> if I close these cost bugs they'll get re-opened because it's a genuine bug 08:28:51 <andythenorth> but no-one will actually fix it 08:29:04 <andythenorth> so the argument that we care about the bugs can't be true 08:29:10 <FLHerne> Unclosed issues are bad because they give a poor impression because unclosed issues are bad 08:29:19 <andythenorth> and we only care because I'm closing one or two 08:29:27 <andythenorth> when I closed 800 on Flyspray, nobody cared 08:29:41 <FLHerne> We don't care any *more* about them by closing them... 08:30:03 *** DorpsGek has joined #openttd 08:30:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DorpsGek 08:30:09 <andythenorth> this always divides the same way 08:30:13 <andythenorth> me and TB in one camp 08:30:17 <andythenorth> everyone else in the other 08:30:34 <FLHerne> This way we acknowledge it's there, and anyone who feels like fixing a trivial bug can pick one up and do it 08:30:57 <FLHerne> And if anyone complains, they can vote on the bug 08:31:21 <andythenorth> we still acknowledge it's there if I close it 08:31:25 <FLHerne> (and if against all odds the bug gets notably upvoted, we know it might actually be worth fixing) 08:31:32 * andythenorth is being badly behaved 08:31:42 <andythenorth> I have had this argument maybe a dozen times now :) 08:31:49 <andythenorth> and I was given close rights a long time ago :) 08:32:39 <FLHerne> But "acknowledging" open bugs by closing them just makes the "closed" state meaningless 08:32:44 <andythenorth> I just find it fascinating. To do my actual job I have to empathise with users so I can understand what they want. 08:33:03 <andythenorth> But I have never managed to empathise with the large number of people who like keeping a longer and longer to-do list 08:33:15 <andythenorth> it's a failure on my part :) 08:33:38 <FLHerne> It's a computer, the bytes are literally free, because MS pays for them :p 08:33:54 <FLHerne> Why should the todo list not be infinite? 08:34:26 <andythenorth> how does one do it? 08:34:31 <FLHerne> The *real* to-do list of things people want fixed doesn't get shorter when you close digital issues 08:35:02 <FLHerne> So why deliberately prevent the digital one from matching the real one? 08:36:08 <FLHerne> They tend to automatically sort themselves in order of "critical" -> "two people have ever cares" over time 08:36:56 <andythenorth> dunno 08:37:04 <andythenorth> like I said, I've had the argument many times 08:37:08 <andythenorth> I never convince anyone 08:37:11 <andythenorth> and nobody ever convinces me 08:37:35 <andythenorth> I think it's a binary divide about the way people's brains work 08:37:47 <andythenorth> I literally want to quit the project when the issue count gets over 100 08:37:56 <andythenorth> it's massively overwhelming and depressing 08:38:00 <andythenorth> massive public failure 08:38:30 <andythenorth> we all have our thing :P 08:41:42 <FLHerne> Why is the fact that 100 people care about different trivial inconsistencies a massive failure? 08:43:18 <FLHerne> It means there are >100 players who (a) don't experience non-trivial bugs and (b) play enough to care about their pet trivial thing 08:43:36 <andythenorth> I think it's the failure to do anything about it 08:44:13 <andythenorth> also they're not 100 trivial inconsistencies also 08:44:23 <andythenorth> if it's valid as an issue, then it's serious 08:44:42 <FLHerne> In that case, I fail to see how closing the issue is a useful form of doing-about-it :p 08:44:53 <andythenorth> ah 08:45:01 <andythenorth> ok, yes 08:45:09 <FLHerne> It doesn't go away, you just avoid looking at it 08:45:12 <andythenorth> the reason is that it means the project is making decisions about quality 08:45:23 <andythenorth> that's the thing that bugs me 08:45:33 <andythenorth> if we don't know what 'good' is, then it's futile 08:45:41 <andythenorth> this gets very Zen and The Art quickly 08:46:05 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_and_the_Art_of_Motorcycle_Maintenance 08:46:06 <FLHerne> There's a difference between "good" and "perfect"? 08:46:16 <andythenorth> it's a good book, hard to keep going in a lot of it though 08:46:53 <FLHerne> Acknowledging that it isn't perfect, and probably never will be, doesn't stop it being good 08:47:59 <andythenorth> making anything good means saying no to 99 out of 100 thiings 08:48:11 <andythenorth> hmm, maybe 66 out of 100 actually 08:48:33 * andythenorth maths 08:48:34 <FLHerne> I have no objection to you closing silly feature requests :p 08:48:42 <andythenorth> usually I do 08:49:24 <andythenorth> I find these cost bugs very confusing, because they're clearly very serious 08:49:31 <andythenorth> and yet they make no difference to the game 08:49:46 <andythenorth> and they're not on the level of syntax or whitespace arguments 08:49:56 <andythenorth> they're clearly something that doesn't conform to the spec 08:50:01 <andythenorth> but where is the spec? :( 08:52:29 <andythenorth> anyway, FIRS :) 08:57:10 <andythenorth> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1232604#p1232604 08:57:54 <andythenorth> I need to stop copy-pasting sprites around, it makes industries look same :) 08:58:15 <andythenorth> I am drawing new features, but there's only so many ways to draw a chimney 08:58:31 <andythenorth> or a storage tank, or a small brick building :D 09:01:41 <andythenorth> eh 09:01:46 <andythenorth> this port does long wrong, yes? https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1225818#p1225818 09:01:51 <andythenorth> long / look /s 09:02:16 <FLHerne> On the 'trivial feature request' front, can the dock be full-width? :p 09:02:34 <FLHerne> Now we have multi-docks-per-station, it's nice to have long quays 09:02:50 <FLHerne> But then it looks silly like in that first screenshot 09:03:18 <FLHerne> Those are one industry? 09:03:23 <FLHerne> Then yes, the gap looks odd 09:03:43 <andythenorth> I thought so 09:03:59 <andythenorth> it makes a nice final station, but too weird in the first screenshot 09:04:16 <FLHerne> I guess the idea is to allow a dock in the middle? 09:04:29 <FLHerne> But with large ships you'd get nasty clipping 09:04:32 <andythenorth> or the station 09:04:41 <andythenorth> per the 3rd screenshot 09:05:00 <FLHerne> Demolishable industry tiles? :D 09:05:29 <FLHerne> That would probably be a trivial flag to add, if there are the bits for it... 09:05:48 <andythenorth> oh 09:05:51 <FLHerne> But 90% of people wouldn't discover it 09:05:52 <andythenorth> that is a very interesting idea 09:06:08 <FLHerne> Actually, *optional* industry tiles? 09:06:19 <andythenorth> you're right about the UI problems, but still 09:06:19 <FLHerne> Where if the tile check fails, just that tile isn't built 09:06:26 <andythenorth> also interesting 09:06:39 <andythenorth> nielsm has an unfinished patch for sub-layouts 09:06:51 <andythenorth> tiles you can build routes over :P 09:07:02 <andythenorth> as an idea? 09:07:21 <andythenorth> nah, you'd want to terraform as well 09:08:23 <FLHerne> Hm, other problem with demolishable industry tiles would be magic-bulldozer 09:08:37 <FLHerne> Click the wrong square and your destination goes poof 09:10:21 <andythenorth> I did that in my current game :P 09:10:41 <andythenorth> I demolish a lot of industries, I can't get FIRS to build them in useful places :) 09:23:54 <milek7> from curiosity, I wanted to check number of open bugs on mozilla bugtracker 09:24:20 <milek7> it dumped 10000 and 'This list is too long for Bugzilla'.. 09:25:36 *** khavik[m] has joined #openttd 09:26:12 *** labs[m] has joined #openttd 09:27:06 *** dude[m] has joined #openttd 09:31:28 <andythenorth> for mozila? 09:31:39 <andythenorth> 9999 saying 'it eats all the RAM on my machine' 09:31:56 <andythenorth> and 1 saying 'pls stop changing dev tools so often' 09:31:59 *** julie[m] has joined #openttd 09:34:59 <andythenorth> :D 09:44:49 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 09:46:37 <milek7> same thing with KDE, GNOME, LLVM, gcc: dumps 10000 and bails out 'list is too long' 09:49:51 *** Aileen[m] has joined #openttd 09:50:41 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 09:50:51 *** Smedles_ has quit IRC 09:50:59 *** arron[m] has joined #openttd 09:53:31 *** albert[m] has joined #openttd 10:01:21 *** karl[m] has joined #openttd 10:01:38 *** Smedles has quit IRC 10:02:54 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 10:03:00 *** robert[m]1 has joined #openttd 10:12:52 *** vanessa[m] has joined #openttd 10:16:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] travismorin11 opened issue #8171: Cricket wirrless uograde codes https://git.io/JfrGr 10:18:25 *** freu[m] has joined #openttd 10:18:43 *** natalie[m]1 has joined #openttd 10:18:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] travismorin11 closed issue #8171: Cricket wirrless uograde codes https://git.io/JfrGr 10:19:28 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] travismorin11 reopened issue #8171: Cricket wireless upgrade codes https://git.io/JfrGr 10:21:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #8171: Cricket wireless upgrade codes https://git.io/JfrGr 10:22:04 <LordAro> sure. 10:22:18 <FLHerne> ok 10:29:16 <andythenorth> seems legit 10:30:07 <FLHerne> After they fixed the typo, yeah 11:02:12 *** tokai has joined #openttd 11:02:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 11:09:02 <Eddi|zuHause> seems like a missed opportunity to let andy have the satisfaction of closing an issue :p 11:13:09 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 11:15:36 <andythenorth> I'll be ok 11:15:42 <andythenorth> I have my own to-do list for FIRS :P 11:15:51 <andythenorth> things getting done 12:02:45 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 12:09:30 *** glx has joined #openttd 12:09:30 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 12:39:52 *** Artea has quit IRC 12:50:58 *** y2kboy23 has quit IRC 13:08:16 *** y2kboy23 has joined #openttd 13:15:27 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 13:15:27 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 13:22:29 *** tokai has quit IRC 13:29:07 *** Artea has joined #openttd 13:31:03 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 13:41:07 *** cHawk- has quit IRC 13:44:34 <andythenorth> improved https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=212217 13:44:49 <andythenorth> I'm having to use colour a lot to differentiate all these steel industries 13:44:56 <andythenorth> big sheds are all a bit identical :P 13:48:44 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 14:08:16 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 14:08:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mintyface opened issue #8172: No trains past diesel models? https://git.io/Jfrg4 14:12:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8172: No trains past diesel models? https://git.io/Jfrg4 14:13:58 *** Yexo is now known as Guest26344 14:14:03 *** Yexo has joined #openttd 14:14:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Yexo 14:16:36 <andythenorth> now I need to draw a factory for vehicle parts 14:16:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo commented on issue #8172: No trains past diesel models? https://git.io/Jfrg4 14:16:49 <andythenorth> homage to original factory sprites? o_O 14:36:36 *** Borg has joined #openttd 15:09:34 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 15:20:17 *** tokai has joined #openttd 15:20:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 15:27:08 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 15:27:21 *** Wrench_In_The_Plan has joined #openttd 16:00:28 *** cHawk has quit IRC 16:01:42 <supermop_Home> andythenorth make the long one go the other way? 16:05:57 <supermop_Home> always kinda bugged me that the coke oven only goes / 16:07:54 <supermop_Home> but its probably a pain to draw \ 16:14:31 <andythenorth> long one goes both ways 16:15:49 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9686/long_products_mill_2.png 16:15:59 <andythenorth> was easy to do with these sprites 16:27:55 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:29:36 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> How do I counter rival companies buying exclusive rights? 16:29:52 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> Do I just have to buy them first or something? 16:35:21 <andythenorth> playing multiplayer or AI? 16:36:04 <FLHerne> There's a setting that simply disallows that 16:36:11 <FLHerne> Otherwise, yes, buy them first 16:43:09 <andythenorth> I should draw this as component factory? :) https://www.motoringresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Dagenham-1.jpg 16:48:37 <FLHerne> Yes 16:49:34 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 16:58:55 <andythenorth> hmm 16:59:00 <andythenorth> things that would improve FIRS 16:59:07 <andythenorth> * custom fence sprites 16:59:17 <andythenorth> * a ground tile in-between mud and concrete 17:09:21 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 17:12:40 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 17:13:52 *** Artea has quit IRC 17:16:42 <jottyfan> so now that I have created some bugfixes to the gamescript BeeRewards, I was not able to update the library in bananas tonight, because I have never done this before (and am not known as one of the gamescript providers). I've written an email about this, but I wonder if this is the correct way to do so? 17:19:53 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 17:21:16 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 17:22:28 <jottyfan> btw., one can find the release also here: https://gitlab.com/jottyfan/bee-reward/-/releases 17:25:24 <Yexo> https://bananas.openttd.org/package/game-script/42524557 lists you as author, so you should be able to upload an update for it 17:25:30 <Yexo> Do you see it listed under https://bananas.openttd.org/manager? 17:26:13 <Yexo> Did you request your account to be migrated to the new Bananas? Read/follow https://www.openttd.org/news/2020/04/27/new-bananas.html if not 17:28:22 <jottyfan> I could not request my account to be migrated because I did never have one... 17:28:33 <nielsm> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1232614#p1232614 "how do I type Squirrel language without autocomplete and libraries?" -- has the world really come to this? :( 17:29:53 <andythenorth> nielsm it always was this :) 17:30:00 <andythenorth> we just don't always notice 17:30:04 <Eddi|zuHause> A: use stackoverflow :p 17:30:24 *** Artea has joined #openttd 17:30:57 <jottyfan> And on https://bananas.openttd.org/manager it is not listed of course, because I did not upload it once. The question is, how do I get the privileges to add updates then? 17:33:31 <Eddi|zuHause> then you have to ask the person who uploaded it to add you as team member, if he trusts that you are who you claim you are 17:35:15 <jottyfan> then this must have been andythenorth or albert - but I still do not remember... 17:35:39 <andythenorth> no it was whoever created Bee Rewards 17:35:46 <glx> you just need to get your github account inked to username 17:35:58 <andythenorth> https://bananas.openttd.org/package/game-script/42524557 17:36:02 <jottyfan> then it must have been albert 17:36:04 <andythenorth> that's incorrect ^^ 17:36:09 <andythenorth> it's just a mistake in the migration 17:36:16 <jottyfan> because I did never have a bananas account... 17:37:57 <andythenorth> oh maybe the fork was by Alberth https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bee-awards/repository/revisions 17:38:36 <jottyfan> I did only add some code to mercurial, but providing it to bananas was done by him then 17:39:09 * andythenorth never used it, must have been alberth 17:39:52 <jottyfan> ok, thank you very much 17:39:59 <jottyfan> need to get in contact with him then 17:41:36 <andythenorth> try forums, but he's mostly left the community 17:41:47 <andythenorth> I can't assign owners in bananas afaik 17:41:58 <jottyfan> yeah, I see 17:42:04 <jottyfan> I'll try 17:42:22 <Yexo> jottyfan: I'd try to follow https://www.openttd.org/news/2020/04/27/new-bananas.html anyway 17:42:29 <glx> really you just need to get your github account linked to the author name 17:42:31 <Yexo> You'll need a github account anyway 17:42:43 <Yexo> Since you're already listed as author, that can be migrated directly 17:42:56 <Yexo> Whether or not you had an active openttd account before is irrelevant 17:42:59 <glx> even if you never had a bananas accout before 17:43:37 <Yexo> <andythenorth> I can't assign owners in bananas afaik <- correct, but neither can Alberth 17:43:54 <Yexo> andythenorth: and you can upload a new version right now 17:44:01 <andythenorth> right 17:45:33 <andythenorth> oh :D 17:45:41 <andythenorth> I need to add some ground tiles to CHIPS 17:45:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JfrPz 17:45:50 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 17:45:56 <andythenorth> Yexo I think your last message before your away time was about CHIPS :) 17:46:22 <glx> andythenorth: adding stations to nml will not be easy 17:46:40 <Yexo> andythenorth: Quite possible :) 17:46:49 <andythenorth> glx proposing doing it? :) 17:46:58 <Yexo> What's the big problem? Something with layouts in action0 vs action2 or so? 17:47:05 <glx> newstation specs are silly 17:47:22 <jottyfan> well, I did try to upload new content yesterday, but bananas did not allow me to add that because of the project name 17:47:25 <glx> yeah layouts on A0 while all others use A2 17:47:43 <jottyfan> I could rename the project and upload it, yes, but I think it's better to have a new version for such minor changes... 17:48:03 <glx> but newstation is probably one of the older additions I guess 17:48:23 <jottyfan> but how could I link my github account to my name? My github name still is the same as the author's name of the project 17:48:27 <Yexo> jottyfan: follow https://www.openttd.org/news/2020/04/27/new-bananas.html, get your github account linked, then you can upload a new version (and manage the item in general, so update description etc) 17:49:08 <Yexo> Sorry, I keep linking that, but https://bananas.openttd.org/manager/user-migration has the instructions 17:51:32 <jottyfan> yes, this is option that I've chosen tonight - but without migration, it seems to be more complicated... 17:52:23 <jottyfan> maybe I need more patience... :) 17:52:47 <glx> yes, just need to wait a little, it will be handled 17:53:13 <jottyfan> great 17:53:18 <jottyfan> so thank you all very much 17:53:40 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:53:49 <glx> it's all "manual" work 18:35:51 <andythenorth> hmm CHIPS is broken 18:35:56 <andythenorth> well that's a thing to do :) 18:36:10 <andythenorth> the Makefile expects mercurial 18:36:51 <andythenorth> oh it's a big modular coop makefile :) 18:36:53 <andythenorth> hmm 18:37:08 <andythenorth> https://github.com/andythenorth/chips 18:49:23 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> Uh, I'm getting this odd error... 18:49:32 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> I can't send a road vehicle to a station 18:49:36 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> Despite it looking as though I can. 18:49:48 *** namad7 has joined #openttd 18:49:57 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> I'll post a screenshot on Imgur. One second. 18:49:59 <andythenorth> is it a passenger vehicle and a freight station? 18:50:12 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> https://imgur.com/a/nyxqmqk 18:50:21 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> It's a freight vehicle and a freight station. 18:51:01 <LordAro> what is the road vehicle? 18:51:25 <LordAro> you've managed to perfectly obscure it in your screenshot :p 18:52:13 *** namad7 has quit IRC 18:53:05 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> Gaah 18:53:29 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> It's from the eGRVTS thingie 18:53:36 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> The Mettler Ultra with Flatbed Trailer 18:53:56 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> Maximum 20 kN of Tractive Effort 18:54:42 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> A Pitman's Articulated Flatbed Truck suffers the same issue 18:54:46 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> It can't do anything either. 18:55:26 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> Looks like the vanilla livestock vans work just fine. 18:57:40 <Eddi|zuHause> articulated vehicles cannot go in dead-end stations, only drive-through stations 18:59:03 <LordAro> ah yes 18:59:13 <LordAro> that error message isn't great 19:05:05 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> I see... 19:07:41 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 19:08:37 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> Thanks 19:08:46 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> So, how do I see roads that are obscured by buildings? 19:09:01 <glx> transparent building 19:09:31 <glx> it's in the cogs dropdown 19:10:49 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 19:11:29 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> Thanks 19:12:10 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:12:32 <FLHerne> Or press ctrl-X, and there's a transparency toolbar 19:12:35 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> Any tips for a complete newcomer to TTD, by the way? 19:13:49 <nielsm> expand, expand, expand :) 19:14:34 <nielsm> and be optimistic about your routes, plan for growth 19:17:16 <nielsm> also, learn the hotkeys for switching building tools, it will help you build much faster 19:17:34 <LordAro> nielsm: i've never bothered learning the hotkeys 19:17:57 <debdog> the most important key is "x" 19:17:58 <andythenorth> I just hit 'A' a lot, with combo keys 19:18:01 <andythenorth> until I get what I want 19:18:14 <LordAro> oh, i use 'delete' 19:18:16 <LordAro> that's quite useful 19:18:26 <LordAro> and 'tab' 19:18:28 <andythenorth> there's one hotkey that's really bad if you have the wrong window focussed, clears orders unintentionally 19:18:52 <andythenorth> I have NFI how, but highlighting the foreground window would be a usability benefit ) 19:18:53 <andythenorth> :) 19:18:57 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> What's delete do? 19:19:06 <FLHerne> Close all non-pinned windows 19:19:22 <Speeder_> squirrel is proving to be quite annoying 19:19:24 <Speeder_> I am missing Lua 19:20:43 <FLHerne> Wrench_In_The_Plan: I made https://flherne.uk/files/signal_demo.sav a while ago, might be useful 19:21:07 <FLHerne> (it's a demo of different common/fundamental ways to set up rail signals) 19:21:44 <glx> basic rule: always use PBS, and put signal only where it's safe to wait 19:23:00 <nielsm> and "safe to wait" means, if a train stopped at the signal, would it be blocking any other trains trying to go in a different direction 19:23:01 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> TRAINS! 19:23:07 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> Sorry, uh 19:23:10 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> Got upset a little bit. 19:23:19 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> Remembered how competing trains would crash into my trucks 19:23:27 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> Which doesn't work out very well for me. 19:23:34 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> How do I deal with them? 19:23:59 * andythenorth wonders how much makefile CHIPS really needs 19:24:10 <andythenorth> it's just a grfcodec compile, nothing fancy 19:24:14 <andythenorth> there's not even docs etc 19:24:39 <andythenorth> or we could use it as the test case for nml stations? o_O 19:25:12 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> Also, uh... How can I remove a bridge over a river without also removing the river? 19:25:12 <FLHerne> Wrench_In_The_Plan: Bridges 19:25:21 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> 'Cause filling in a body of water is expensive. 19:25:24 <FLHerne> Wrench_In_The_Plan: Demolish the ramp tiles 19:25:32 <FLHerne> (one of) 19:25:42 <glx> well my idea was to use CHIPS as reference to check output and syntax :) 19:25:46 <FLHerne> Well, removing the river wouldn't remove the bridge anyway 19:26:07 <FLHerne> To do anything to a bridge, do it to either of the end ramps, and it'll affect the whole thing 19:26:29 <glx> but stupid spec makes it so uneasy 19:26:32 <andythenorth> oof 19:26:33 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> I see. 19:26:46 <andythenorth> the question is whether to do a new spec 19:26:47 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 19:26:49 <andythenorth> specs are hard 19:26:57 <FLHerne> Bit late now 19:27:10 <FLHerne> Maybe look at however m4nfo does it? 19:27:25 <glx> I'm sure there should be a way to factorise layout code 19:27:33 <FLHerne> ISTR that has a pretty nice grf-coder-facing interface for stations 19:27:37 <glx> but for now it's hardcoded for Action2 19:27:46 <andythenorth> it has been suggested multiple times that stations are just objects with track bits 19:27:53 <andythenorth> I don't know if that holds up though 19:29:47 <glx> yeah except objects, airport tiles, industry tiles and houses use action2 for the layout, while stations put it in action0 19:30:55 <glx> at least station prop 1A uses the same format as advanced layout 19:32:05 <andythenorth> the idea would be to make a new API for stations, standardising it on what the others do 19:32:14 <andythenorth> I doubt it's that simple :) 19:32:18 <Eddi|zuHause> can we supercede station specs with a more object-like one? 19:32:21 <glx> prop 1A is already "new" 19:34:21 <andythenorth> I have no useful opinion, I've never coded a station grf 19:34:28 <andythenorth> I just add graphics to the code in CHIPS 19:34:29 <andythenorth> :) 19:34:30 <glx> not sure Eddi|zuHause, stations already have an action2 for something else 19:35:13 <andythenorth> there'd have to be a new flag or something? 19:35:16 <andythenorth> then branch conditionally? 19:35:50 <glx> and I think nml could support tile layout in a more generic way 19:36:42 <andythenorth> implementing current spec in nml gives a reference against existing grfs 19:36:47 <andythenorth> a new spec does not :) 19:36:51 <andythenorth> specs are hard :P 19:37:01 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> I think I may be having too many road vehicles going to a small number of stations 19:37:34 <glx> current spec is not that bad, it's just needs work 19:38:07 <FLHerne> My housemate has decided that lockdown is the golden opportunity to take up violining :-/ 19:44:00 <andythenorth> rad 19:44:39 *** gardas714 has joined #openttd 19:46:22 <andythenorth> are they good yet? 19:51:17 <nielsm> remember, you can see a large metal tube explode two people far into the air today: https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/ 19:51:32 <nielsm> when are we adding rockets to openttd? 19:52:13 <gardas714> thanks for the link! 19:52:20 <gardas714> hopefully no explosions 19:53:40 <nielsm> it's not going anywhere if they don't get an explosion 19:53:52 <nielsm> it just needs to be in the right place 19:55:25 <glx> interior design looks so modern compared to soyouz or shuttle 19:55:55 <gardas714> fair enough :P 20:13:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #8173: Fix: Compilation warnings in story_gui and script_story_page https://git.io/Jfr9q 20:20:55 <milek7> maybe it's too modern.. I'm not convinced to touchscreens everywhere 20:22:03 *** Borg has quit IRC 20:22:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #8173: Fix: Compilation warnings in story_gui and script_story_page https://git.io/Jfr9K 20:22:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8173: Fix: Compilation warnings in story_gui and script_story_page https://git.io/Jfr9q 20:45:04 <FLHerne> planetmaker: Do you remember what https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6473 was about? The links are broken 20:58:17 <gardas714> following a post on the forum, whoever would like to talk about a possible economic model for openttd, please join #openttd-econ 20:58:28 <gardas714> not an official effort by any means, by the way 20:58:30 <gardas714> fyi 21:05:34 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:08:57 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:15:53 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:21:36 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 21:29:59 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:37:11 *** arikover has quit IRC 21:38:01 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 21:43:32 <supermop_Home> glx the shuttle is very old compared to now i guess? 21:43:56 <supermop_Home> i just joined this - it just seems to be people prodding a door? 21:45:28 *** orudge has quit IRC 21:46:27 <supermop_Home> i assume the launch was scrubbed and thatpeople prodding the door is not typical 21:48:51 <andythenorth> scrubbed due to bad weather? 21:49:17 <glx> yeah weather issue 21:49:17 <supermop_Home> weather's great in new York, should have built the pad here 21:49:42 <andythenorth> also bed 21:49:44 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:51:15 *** orudge has joined #openttd 22:03:25 <supermop_Home> the all black coveralls don't necessarily do much to dispel the notion that musk is some kind of supervillain 22:05:57 <Speeder_> towns can absorb all "goods" you give to them? 22:05:59 <Speeder_> or there are limits? 22:06:23 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:06:32 *** gardas714 has quit IRC 22:09:42 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 22:10:55 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 22:16:04 *** Yexo has quit IRC 22:16:21 *** Yexo has joined #openttd 22:16:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Yexo 22:18:55 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:19:10 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 22:25:46 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:25:58 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 22:33:42 <Speeder_> just found out I have to do some adjustement to my FIRS version O.o 22:33:49 <Speeder_> I will have to remove coal, entirely 22:34:01 <Speeder_> or almost entirely 22:38:02 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:40:28 *** keoz has quit IRC 22:51:57 <Wrench_In_The_Plan> Huh. That mention of violining earlier reminds me, I might wanna pick my own back up... 22:53:11 <FLHerne> Speeder_: Why? 22:55:25 *** gnu_jj has quit IRC 23:03:24 *** cHawk has quit IRC 23:08:22 *** gnu_jj has joined #openttd 23:15:06 <Speeder_> FLHerne, Brazillian economy doesn't use rock coal 23:15:19 <Speeder_> although we do have it, it is extremely poor quality 23:15:25 <Speeder_> so there are only a few coal mines 23:15:39 <Speeder_> Brazillian steel is made with imported coal 23:15:56 <Speeder_> and thermal powerplants use diesel and other petroleum fuels 23:33:52 <Speeder_> what the function "rawin" does on GS? 23:36:59 <FLHerne> Speeder_: http://www.squirrel-lang.org/squirreldoc/reference/language/builtin_functions.html#table.rawin ? 23:41:07 *** gelignite has quit IRC