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00:24:28 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:03:59 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 01:16:35 *** bryjen has joined #openttd 01:27:59 *** bryjen has quit IRC 01:28:20 *** bryjen has joined #openttd 02:26:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #94: [lt_LT] Translator access request https://git.io/JkMGz 03:05:08 *** bryjen has quit IRC 03:40:19 *** glx has quit IRC 04:02:49 *** debdog has joined #openttd 04:06:08 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 04:35:34 <Flygon> It's normal for the mouse to move juttery when the game is paused, right? 05:54:23 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 06:00:15 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:35:30 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 06:37:09 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 06:44:39 *** Flygon has quit IRC 06:54:13 *** Gustavo6046 is now known as Guest6909 06:54:13 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 06:54:31 *** Guest6909 has quit IRC 07:11:35 *** longtomjr has joined #openttd 07:14:21 *** Flygon__ has joined #openttd 07:21:49 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 07:38:23 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 07:38:30 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 08:05:13 *** Webster has joined #openttd 08:05:56 *** heffer has quit IRC 08:05:57 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:08:44 <longtomjr> morning andythenorth, saw your message now. Seems like I am not the only one that feels the need for an 'Iron Wagon' set. Work and personal stuff is currently taking up most of my time, so it will probably not happen soon unfortunately. Maybe when i get an open weekend somewhere I will poke around in the IH source again. Thanks for the link :) 08:16:59 *** heffer has joined #openttd 08:19:16 <andythenorth> longtomjr turning off the engines is probably 2 edits 08:19:35 <andythenorth> but I think some of the magic might break for passenger and mail coaches 08:20:27 <andythenorth> they check the engine IDs 08:22:34 <longtomjr> Hmm, for my purposes I probably don't need the coaches, since most trainsets will have coaches that fits their engines 08:28:37 * andythenorth tests 08:29:33 <andythenorth> ok mostly it's clear this list https://github.com/andythenorth/iron-horse/blob/master/src/rosters/pony.py#L194 08:29:39 <andythenorth> optionally remove the imports above 08:30:01 <andythenorth> and then there are some coaches that need removed, the compile breaks because they look for specific engines 08:30:34 <andythenorth> alternatively there could be a 'wagons only' roster, I hadn't considered that previously 08:30:41 <andythenorth> not sure people would realise it exists 08:31:32 <longtomjr> let me save this for later, thanks for the help 08:32:36 <longtomjr> The ideal for me would be to implement it as a build flag or something with minimum code changes and impact, that way the fork is just way easier to maintain. 08:35:07 <andythenorth> I can help with that 08:35:55 <andythenorth> I think if you define your own roster, that will encapsulate _most_ of the changes in a single file 08:36:08 <andythenorth> I could probably add conditionals for other cases to simplify the fork 08:38:12 <longtomjr> Thanks :) will definitely ask when I start tinkering with it 08:38:12 <andythenorth> I quite like forks 08:38:41 <andythenorth> there are multiple FIRS forks, and authors really don't bother me much with questions or feedback 08:39:01 <andythenorth> on balance I'd rather support a handful of forks than read the same out-of-scope feature requests over and over again 08:39:07 <andythenorth> :D 08:40:12 <longtomjr> :) 08:44:34 <andythenorth> one roster file, and some kind of project.ini or makefile.config 08:44:34 <andythenorth> should be enough 09:10:34 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 09:10:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 09:17:17 *** tokai has quit IRC 09:40:18 <orudge> Hmm, on both my old and new Mac, if I go into fast-forward mode the game crashes with an exception in the message ticker code. FPS looks to be about 4x what I get on my Windows machine, but need to check the settings are the same. 09:40:33 *** tokai has joined #openttd 09:40:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 09:47:32 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 09:49:18 <andythenorth> orudge that's interesting :) 09:49:19 <andythenorth> I don't get that 09:49:19 <andythenorth> but news messages are associated with very odd performance slowdowns 09:49:52 <andythenorth> (could be coincidence not causation) 10:14:35 <orudge> It almost seems like the performance is too fast that it's crashing the news ticker 10:14:35 <orudge> Will need to look into it 10:22:33 *** m1cr0man has joined #openttd 10:24:23 <andythenorth> I have a sometimes reproducible issue where the game lags horribly as news runs 10:24:29 <andythenorth> opening a news message clears the lag 10:24:39 <andythenorth> I can't prove they're causally linked 11:04:31 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I am looking at replacing DorpsGek (as it runs on the old server) 11:04:49 <TrueBrain> I wonder if it should still do chanserv stuff .. 11:05:09 <TrueBrain> I guess it makes life easier .. 11:05:30 <TrueBrain> Limnoria is such a complex piece of software to configure properly :( 11:06:22 <TrueBrain> and mainly, it is not meant to run stateless :P 11:06:36 <TrueBrain> it comes from another world :P 11:12:43 *** Samu has joined #openttd 11:35:57 <TrueBrain> https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/fa33cd2a8652a7cfcde611495faf94ba <- did I miss any functionality we use? 11:43:04 <LordAro> TrueBrain: thinking of rolling everything into DorpsGek_III ? 11:43:27 <TrueBrain> yes 11:43:38 <LordAro> @seen database would be the hardest thing to add, presumably? 11:43:38 <DorpsGek> LordAro: seen [<channel>] <nick> 11:43:43 <LordAro> DorpsGek: shush 11:43:59 <TrueBrain> well, the statefulness of that is tricky 11:44:34 <TrueBrain> the biggest problem is when a new version is being rolled out 11:44:34 <TrueBrain> not sure yet how to prevent loss of information 11:45:11 <LordAro> dump it to the same place the logs would go? 11:45:11 <TrueBrain> they have the same issue :) 11:45:16 <LordAro> rather than a database, just read from some file 11:45:32 <TrueBrain> the Seen database, how it is implemented, write the full file every N minutes 11:45:35 <TrueBrain> so if a new DorpsGek starts, it will read the file, and use that as his truth 11:45:50 <TrueBrain> the time between the reading of that file and really joining of channels 11:45:58 <TrueBrain> is lost 11:46:24 <TrueBrain> so that is not the biggest gap in time 11:46:24 <TrueBrain> I guess we have to live with that :P 11:46:24 <TrueBrain> LordAro: the bot uses no database; never did, never will :P 11:46:24 <LordAro> could attempt to write something on shutdown as well? 11:46:40 <LordAro> but no great loss if it fails 11:46:40 <TrueBrain> yeah, but the shutdown happens 30+ seconds after a new instance is launched 11:46:40 <TrueBrain> so that is not useful :) 11:46:40 <LordAro> ah 11:46:53 <LordAro> why the overlap? 11:47:00 <TrueBrain> normally, it ensures 100% uptime 11:47:03 <TrueBrain> so if you deploy a new website, the new instance is started 11:47:04 <TrueBrain> health checks pass 11:47:11 <TrueBrain> traffic is redirects to it 11:47:11 <TrueBrain> if still stable, old instance dies 11:47:52 <TrueBrain> so for like 30 seconds, there will be two bots, basically 11:48:06 <LordAro> right 11:48:12 <LordAro> not quite as important for an irc bot :p 11:48:24 <TrueBrain> nope; and it leaves some gaps 11:48:40 <TrueBrain> as the new instance has the knowledge of the bot as it was at the start of that 30 seconds 11:48:52 <TrueBrain> but I guess it is very unlikely for that to ever give any problem 11:48:59 <TrueBrain> someone who rarely talks has to say something exactly in that 30 seconds 11:49:16 <TrueBrain> for logs, a similar problem exists 11:49:27 <TrueBrain> the filesystem is an NFS, with 2 bots having the same file open with "append" 11:49:38 <TrueBrain> so ... I guess ... log lines are repeated during that 30 seconds? 11:49:43 <TrueBrain> not sure honestly :) 11:50:22 <TrueBrain> I would classify both as "acceptable risks" and "known artifacts" 12:05:16 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 12:07:45 <andythenorth> ooof 12:07:52 <andythenorth> what am I doing again? 12:07:56 <andythenorth> or supposed to be doing? 12:08:01 * andythenorth discombobulated 12:14:54 <andythenorth> lucnh! 12:26:42 *** Samu has quit IRC 12:30:37 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 12:55:24 <LordAro> TrueBrain: we could run it on one of the VPS :p 12:55:53 <TrueBrain> no 12:56:29 <LordAro> lol 12:56:44 <TrueBrain> :D 12:57:04 <LordAro> (any reason other than separation of concerns?) 12:57:32 <TrueBrain> there were many more pieces of software that would have been easier to run on the VPS 12:57:40 <TrueBrain> but it doesn't reduce the bus-factor 12:57:43 <TrueBrain> nor the complexity of the setup 12:58:00 <TrueBrain> the whole reason for this AWS migration is that more people can contribute to the various pieces of software 12:58:29 <TrueBrain> and auto-deploying for sure is one of the reasons it is easier 12:58:57 <TrueBrain> having a special-case run on some VPS, is not a step forward :D 13:03:05 <LordAro> no reason why we couldn't have it auto-deploying 13:03:10 <LordAro> not that i disagree with you 13:04:55 <TrueBrain> you have to wonder if it is useful to write your own auto-deploy at that point :) 13:05:17 <TrueBrain> especially if it is for a single service, that is rather messy and unexpected :) 13:05:35 <TrueBrain> either way, the TODO list I showed, still would have to be done 13:05:42 <TrueBrain> it only resolves the 30s-window-issue :) 13:06:00 <TrueBrain> ugh, this bot really .. the defaults are so fucked up :P 13:09:38 <TrueBrain> I found a bug in the bot ... that didn't take me long. Clearly nobody uses that command ... it is a bullshit command anyway 13:11:13 <TrueBrain> that bug is 4 years old ... and no reports about it .. tells you a thing or two :P 13:20:37 <andythenorth> fuck me it is cold here 13:20:43 <andythenorth> my fingers won't type 13:21:19 <TrueBrain> couldn't pay the heating bill? 13:25:44 *** arikover has joined #openttd 13:32:41 <TrueBrain> @any TrueBrain 13:32:41 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: TrueBrain was last seen in #openttd 11 minutes and 22 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> couldn't pay the heating bill? 13:32:51 <TrueBrain> seriously ... this bot is full of things that are not really .. useful :P 13:33:49 <TrueBrain> like this: 13:33:50 <TrueBrain> @last 13:33:50 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [14:33:49] <TrueBrain> like this: 13:35:49 <orudge> @first 13:35:49 <TrueBrain> and I am finding more commands I really do not want anyone to ever execute :P 13:35:53 <orudge> @joke 13:35:59 <orudge> @give_me_all_the_money 13:36:06 <orudge> Nope, bot's broken. 13:36:39 <LordAro> @last orudge 13:36:39 <DorpsGek> LordAro: last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit] 13:36:45 <LordAro> yes, that is useless 13:37:52 <TrueBrain> so many more ... I remember why it always scared me, supybot 13:37:57 <TrueBrain> and I am shocked it wasn't abused more over the years :P 13:38:09 <TrueBrain> they did not embrace the concept: do one thing, and do it right 13:38:16 <TrueBrain> it is more like: do this one thing, and do a few more while at it 13:57:23 *** Flygon__ has quit IRC 14:02:54 *** glx has joined #openttd 14:02:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 14:14:20 <TrueBrain> owh, I was overcomplicating the user authentication .. I can just say: you need to be authenticated against NickServ. 14:14:24 <TrueBrain> make it an OFTC problem :D 14:25:41 <glx> a new DorpsGek ? 14:26:03 <TrueBrain> yeah .. sadly ... :P 14:27:10 <TrueBrain> @ports 14:27:11 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 14:27:13 <TrueBrain> is that still useful ^^ ? 14:27:53 <TrueBrain> @propset 14:27:53 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: svn propset svn:eol-style native <file> 14:27:54 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: svn propset svn:keywords Id <file> 14:27:55 <TrueBrain> hihi :D 14:28:07 <TrueBrain> @servers 14:28:08 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. 14:28:09 <TrueBrain> :( 14:28:21 <glx> oh you can remove propset I guess 14:28:36 <TrueBrain> yeah ... I am sure I can :D 14:28:44 <glx> but ports is used from time to time 14:28:45 <TrueBrain> was more wondering about @ports 14:28:49 <TrueBrain> it is used .. some times ... 14:28:54 <TrueBrain> like .. twice in 2019, I believe 14:29:15 <TrueBrain> 6 @ports 14:29:18 <TrueBrain> sorry, 6 times 14:29:37 <TrueBrain> but okay, I will add it, not a real issue 14:32:55 <LordAro> it's not an issue so often anymore 14:33:35 <TrueBrain> it was used 38 times in 2010 14:33:57 <TrueBrain> stayed around 30 for the next 5 years 14:34:05 <TrueBrain> so one can wonder if it ever was really an issue, or us just being very lazy :D 14:34:33 <LordAro> does "3979" appear any more often? :p 14:35:02 <TrueBrain> 112 times in 2010 14:36:12 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:36:18 <TrueBrain> okay, I have a new DorpsGek ready which does the same as the current .. now time to merge both DorpsGeks .... 14:37:16 <LordAro> that was quick 14:38:17 <TrueBrain> 2 hours configuring a bot? It was REALLY annoying work, I can tell you 14:39:38 <LordAro> oh, that sort of new 14:39:46 <LordAro> rather than written yourself sort of new 14:39:51 * LordAro confused 14:39:59 <TrueBrain> I am using Limnoria :) 14:40:05 <TrueBrain> I am not going to write an IRC bot from scratch :P 14:40:20 <TrueBrain> but I stripped down Limnoria to .. well .. the essentials, now :) 14:49:31 <andythenorth> the train on the left would be hard to do in pixels :P http://www.traintesting.com/images/class%2060%20mock%20ups.JPG 14:49:39 <andythenorth> reverse slopes are tricky 14:53:20 <FLHerne> Looks French 14:54:29 <glx> ah yes we had some like that 15:10:25 <andythenorth> very french inspired 15:24:35 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 15:24:44 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:26:38 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 15:40:55 <TrueBrain> joy ... Limnoria writes the config file in different order every time it writes it 15:40:58 <TrueBrain> that is .... not so useful 15:41:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8345: MSYS XAudio build fix https://git.io/JkH4z 15:41:51 <TrueBrain> added the @topic stuff specially for LordAro now :) Pretty sure that will make him happy :P 15:46:30 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 dismissed a review for pull request #8345: MSYS XAudio build fix https://git.io/JkH4z 15:54:58 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:18:21 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 16:18:34 <supermop_Home> hello 16:19:14 <andythenorth> yo 16:20:11 <supermop_Home> hows it going andy? 16:20:40 <andythenorth> eh it's very train focussed 16:20:44 <andythenorth> train obsessions continue 16:26:35 <supermop_Home> sounds good 16:27:03 <supermop_Home> its amazing how little information is online about the Oahu railway 16:27:38 <supermop_Home> seeing as there are large stretches of un-lifted rail left in various places and it was running til the 70s 16:28:31 <supermop_Home> also looking at real estate in kalihi you can clearly see skinny infill parcels on the map tracing where the rail spurs once went 16:29:54 <supermop_Home> also weird is that they are currently spending tens of billions on a new rail system, with multiple big gantry things building the viaduct just west of downtown.. and there is basically no information online about it 16:30:29 <supermop_Home> zero anoraks or train otaku on the island I guess 16:31:14 <supermop_Home> i did see a grocery store otaku filming an 'unboxing' video of a new grocery store opening 16:33:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 requested changes for pull request #8345: MSYS XAudio build fix https://git.io/JkHas 16:58:18 <LordAro> glx: 4 backlashes? are you sure? 16:58:35 <LordAro> i can see 3... 16:58:47 <LordAro> i can see 3 being the correct number, not sure why it would be 4* 16:59:40 <LordAro> oh wait, yes i can 16:59:43 <LordAro> carry on. 17:01:33 *** sla_ro|master2 has joined #openttd 17:04:58 <glx> hehe I tried 2, then 3, then 4 17:05:16 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 17:06:03 <glx> other option being to just remove the \n 17:06:38 <LordAro> true 17:06:52 <LordAro> or the printf entirely :p 17:06:57 <LordAro> i just needed a use of a string 17:10:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8345: MSYS XAudio build fix https://git.io/JkSqF 17:13:07 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8345: MSYS XAudio build fix https://git.io/JkH6Z 17:23:57 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:51:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JkHDe 17:51:55 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 17:58:00 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 18:03:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 18:11:52 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 18:33:23 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 18:47:19 *** longtomjr has quit IRC 18:51:42 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 18:52:58 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 18:52:58 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 18:54:45 *** glx has quit IRC 18:59:46 *** tokai has quit IRC 19:01:11 *** supermop_Home has quit IRC 19:06:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8345: MSYS XAudio build fix https://git.io/JkSqF 19:22:32 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 19:23:11 <Wolf01> Uhuhuh vive cosmos arrived :P 19:43:34 <Gustavo6046> You know what could be cool? 19:43:40 <Gustavo6046> If you could "merge" rolled-up windows, and have a single window with tabs 19:48:23 <frosch123> you can probably make them behave like an accordion 19:48:42 <frosch123> https://getbootstrap.com/docs/4.5/components/collapse/#accordion-example 19:49:32 <milek7> like haiku? 19:50:16 <frosch123> i know haiku as a form of poem, and i think it was some mobile os some years ago 19:50:35 <milek7> it's desktop os 19:52:02 <frosch123> https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/gui.html 19:52:19 <frosch123> i remember some #ifdef HAIKU in ottd, quite sure that was something else 19:56:03 <frosch123> last alpha in 2009, first beta in 2018 :) 19:56:28 <frosch123> so it was dead for almost 10 years? 19:57:31 <andythenorth> @seen supermop 19:57:31 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: supermop was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 44 weeks, 1 day, 21 hours, 56 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <supermop> they are never worth it in openttd, and they never seem to provide much benefit on the subway here 19:57:34 <milek7> I don't think so 19:57:37 <milek7> it's just slow moving 19:57:42 <Gustavo6046> Or even, how about a draggable station size? 19:58:04 <frosch123> i thought we have that since 2006 20:00:03 <andythenorth> FLHerne Timberwolf take my poll! 20:00:03 <andythenorth> https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.13.0/html/tech_tree_table_red.html 20:00:03 <andythenorth> (1) even more British (or maybe Irish) engines ! 20:00:03 <andythenorth> (2) enough engines already, finish something else! 20:02:11 <frosch123> how about a wood wagon set? 20:02:28 <frosch123> as in pax wagons built from wood 20:02:39 <frosch123> 1900-1940 or so 20:02:42 <andythenorth> hewn out of logs? 20:03:15 <andythenorth> frosch123 this? https://www.dreamstime.com/train-carriages-made-wooden-logs-playground-train-has-face-eyes-mouth-nose-eyelashes-pipe-coach-image104090803 20:03:24 <frosch123> weathered look insead of clean cc 20:03:37 <andythenorth> or more like? https://www.schloss-laxenburg.at/ONLWYSIWYG/IMG/Zug_Web11.JPG 20:04:17 <frosch123> https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2Fdb%2F6c%2Fe7%2Fdb6ce7a03e2eab962b4910b85e853326.jpg&f=1&nofb=1 <- like this, but trains 20:04:35 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: Finish FIRS 4 :p 20:04:56 <frosch123> https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diehugs.de%2FWagen%2FMuseumswagen%2FWg53.jpg&f=1&nofb=1 20:05:14 <Gustavo6046> frosch123: we do haev draggable truck/bus stations 20:05:16 <Gustavo6046> but not train ones 20:05:18 <frosch123> https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F72%2Fb0%2F31%2F72b0318ef28257d9fd6e17a08a455f48.jpg&f=1&nofb=1 20:05:19 <Gustavo6046> in fact I think the cap for train statoins is 7 20:05:33 <frosch123> Gustavo6046: press "drag&drop" in station gui 20:05:36 <Gustavo6046> ? 20:05:41 <frosch123> drag up to station spread limit, max 64 20:05:45 <Gustavo6046> oh! 20:05:49 <Gustavo6046> I never noticed that! 20:05:56 <Gustavo6046> thanks! 20:06:16 <TrueBrain> okay, my conclusion after working with freaking Limnoria for a day ... it is 15 year old legacy code which they tried to port forward again and again and again ... it is a total shitshow .. there, I said it .. 20:06:22 *** glx has joined #openttd 20:06:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 20:06:33 <frosch123> worse than gollum? 20:07:15 <frosch123> andythenorth: examples good enough? 20:07:42 <andythenorth> frosch123 BRB I think I made it already 20:07:54 <TrueBrain> frosch123: well, no, as I can read Python ... but it is full with anti-patterns, with shitty constructs, and totally leaves no room to do anything than EXACTLY what they meant it to do 20:07:54 <Gustavo6046> we should make a "pretty or ugly" contest 20:08:07 <Gustavo6046> contestants post a screenshot of their game 20:08:20 <Gustavo6046> and AFTER each screenshot is posted, everyone votes them up or down 20:08:23 <Gustavo6046> highest vote screenshot wins 20:08:24 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/ProgVal/Limnoria/blob/138957676ec8c974dde1e45be81a37691f17434c/scripts/supybot#L154 <- I mean, just ... wtf are you smoking if you write such a "main" 20:08:35 <Gustavo6046> I will start with 1 demonstration screenie 20:08:38 <Gustavo6046> pretty or ugly? https://i.imgur.com/sm9jtXG.jpg 20:08:43 <Gustavo6046> okay, done, voting may commence 20:09:11 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i see fork() 20:09:40 <TrueBrain> there is no hope for this codebase 20:09:42 <TrueBrain> really, there is not 20:10:13 <TrueBrain> but okay, it is now reporting GitHub events again .. so that is something I guess 20:13:28 <Gustavo6046> how do I make a distributed unload order? like n% chance to go to this or that station 20:13:33 <Gustavo6046> or random choice between stations 20:13:39 <Gustavo6046> conditional jump does not seem to help much 20:15:02 <frosch123> unload everything at a central station 20:15:05 <Gustavo6046> because tehre are always 50 or so airplanes in circles around this intercontinental airport trying to unload goods 20:15:12 <frosch123> then use smaller vehicles to distribute 20:15:26 <frosch123> oh, airplanes... you are new to the game, right? :p 20:15:58 <Gustavo6046> not really! 20:16:05 <Gustavo6046> I do know airplanes are overpowered 20:16:08 <Gustavo6046> but AI uses them a lot anyway so 20:16:19 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:16:23 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:16:24 <Gustavo6046> I don't just use airplanes, obviously 20:16:31 <frosch123> they are not. the airports are a bottleneck for any decent transport amount 20:16:42 <frosch123> it's nice to have 5 planes, then you are done 20:16:56 <Gustavo6046> ah 20:16:58 <Gustavo6046> https://i.imgur.com/CetkKSu.jpg 20:17:21 <Gustavo6046> I just set to unload at two stations 20:17:23 <Gustavo6046> they alternate 20:17:25 *** supermop_Home_ has joined #openttd 20:18:32 <TrueBrain> frosch123: https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/fa33cd2a8652a7cfcde611495faf94ba <- let me know if I forgot anything :) 20:19:02 <frosch123> the most important thing: @say :) 20:19:03 <Gustavo6046> accidents are common here lol 20:19:14 <Gustavo6046> twice! o.o 20:19:19 <TrueBrain> frosch123: no :P 20:19:23 <Gustavo6046> valuables rating went from 7% to 3%. 20:19:26 <Gustavo6046> eh, Tuesday 20:19:27 <TrueBrain> it was on there, but I removed it; sorry :) 20:19:30 <Gustavo6046> amirite! 20:19:56 <TrueBrain> (well, it really is a: sorry, not sorry :P) 20:20:09 <frosch123> TrueBrain: anyway, logs and op/deop are the most important. the rest does not matter 20:20:23 <Gustavo6046> wait 20:20:27 <Gustavo6046> oh nvm 20:20:27 <TrueBrain> well, GitHub events are important too I am sure :D 20:20:49 <frosch123> isn't that already solved? or is DorpsGek_III routed via the old server? 20:20:55 <TrueBrain> frosch123: your joining-irc-flow will be slightly different btw: instead of identify with DorpsGek, you would have to identify with NickServ 20:21:10 <frosch123> i already do that, unless banned 20:21:11 <TrueBrain> frosch123: no, but I didn't want 2 DorpsGek's doing almost the same; so I merged them together 20:22:24 <frosch123> i never figured out what makes chanserv op people 20:22:32 <TrueBrain> settings 20:22:43 <TrueBrain> pretty sure we haven't updated ChanServ list in a while :P 20:22:55 <frosch123> possibly we only need logs? 20:23:08 <frosch123> no idea why we use dorpsgek for op/deop and stuff 20:23:23 <TrueBrain> op/deop is not that interesting, I guess, but @kick and @kban are extremely useful 20:23:56 <TrueBrain> with my client for example I cannot ban anyone otherwise :P 20:24:10 <Gustavo6046> oh look, the airports aren't cluttered anymore! 20:24:22 <TrueBrain> but @seen, logs and github-events are the 3 things the bot should at least do 20:24:45 <frosch123> yeah, seen is good 20:24:54 <frosch123> but calc and base is only for samu 20:25:03 <frosch123> everyone else can use python in a console 20:25:10 <frosch123> or press alt+f2 in kde 20:25:14 <TrueBrain> but okay, I implemented most of that now .. only "logs" to do 20:25:22 <andythenorth> I like calc :P 20:25:25 <andythenorth> for % complete 20:26:50 <Gustavo6046> One of my favourite kind of projects is making large waterway networks that span through land using aqueducts and cheapways (dug out canals, rather than built ones) 20:27:38 <Gustavo6046> It's often a challenge, but there's never not a way! https://i.imgur.com/JuXwCEw.png 20:28:58 <frosch123> hmm, i think we were at wt4 (eints) before dorpsgek_ii was a thing. but the bot is catching up fast 20:29:37 <frosch123> hmm, what kind of bot was _42_ ? 20:29:43 <frosch123> or whatever was its name 20:30:15 <Gustavo6046> teamtrees 20:30:24 <milek7> https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/42503/intel-atom-processor-n450-512k-cache-1-66-ghz.html 20:30:26 <milek7> that's probably useless cpu nowadays? 20:30:34 *** supermop_Home_ has quit IRC 20:32:14 <TrueBrain> wow, 42 .. that is old :P 20:32:34 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:32:58 <TrueBrain> not sure what it was running .. my memory is not that great :P 20:33:57 <frosch123> @seen _42_ 20:33:57 <DorpsGek> frosch123: I have not seen _42_. 20:34:41 <frosch123> 2007-10-26 is the last occurence in my logs 20:34:52 <Gustavo6046> psst, I know we might not always see things the same way frosch123, but if there's one thing that unites us, that thing is cash 20:34:58 * Gustavo6046 bribes the frosch123 20:34:59 <TrueBrain> it is a good thing DorpsGek doesn't know it :P 20:35:05 <TrueBrain> it would give it a complete identity crisis 20:35:07 <Gustavo6046> shhh! 20:35:49 <TrueBrain> all I remember it is the reason DorpsGek uses @ 20:35:55 <TrueBrain> as they were both online at the same time for a while :P 20:37:24 <glx> I have a shortcut for @say 20:37:31 <TrueBrain> seems they run side-by-side for 6 months 20:38:08 <TrueBrain> owh, yes, it was the bot that scared the crap out of me :P 20:38:13 <TrueBrain> it launched "bc" as system 20:38:22 <TrueBrain> to do math stuff 20:38:28 <glx> oh crazy 20:39:10 <frosch123> sounds useful. can we use it as pastebin service? 20:39:31 <TrueBrain> that bot had so many cool features 20:39:34 <TrueBrain> none of them useful 20:39:47 <glx> some bots have games 20:39:56 <TrueBrain> I did that google game with it 20:40:04 <TrueBrain> where you try to find 2 words that have exactly 1 match 20:40:09 <TrueBrain> result 20:40:11 <TrueBrain> what-ever :P 20:40:52 <andythenorth> we had a risk bot once 20:40:55 <andythenorth> ascii risk 20:40:55 <frosch123> 4.4e12 results for "what ever" 20:41:13 <frosch123> err, 4.4e9 only 20:41:16 <frosch123> i can't count :) 20:41:25 <TrueBrain> back in 2007, it was a game you could win 20:41:28 <TrueBrain> but ... people ruined it 20:41:39 <TrueBrain> where complete webpages to create unique combinations 20:41:41 <TrueBrain> it was fun 20:41:48 <TrueBrain> back then, Google crawled your website 20:41:50 <TrueBrain> look at it now 20:41:56 <TrueBrain> STILL HASNT PROPERLY UPDATED THE WIKI 20:42:45 <frosch123> hey, but duckduck has 20:42:52 <TrueBrain> mostly because bing has, I think 20:43:06 <TrueBrain> (duckduckgo doesn't index, but scrapes other search engines :P) 20:43:28 <frosch123> "openttd signals" has the real link on position 2, the old one on position 3 20:44:03 <TrueBrain> site:wiki.openttd.org/en/ on google returns 122 results .. 2100 on bing 20:44:05 <TrueBrain> just saying 20:44:05 <frosch123> some unknown 3rd is the winner over the 2 fighting ones :) 20:44:43 <frosch123> so, they accidently deleted the google source code 20:44:53 <frosch123> now they only have an old snapshot to run 20:45:00 <andythenorth> google is still not indexing 20:45:00 <TrueBrain> that would be amazing 20:45:02 <andythenorth> getting annoying 20:45:06 <TrueBrain> how long could they keep that from the public :D 20:45:17 <TrueBrain> the search dashboard hasn't updated in 5 days for wiki.openttd.org 20:45:57 <Gustavo6046> Is there a good shortcut to "Build a separate station" without going through that tedious Ctrl menu? 20:46:02 <Gustavo6046> You can guess why I want that. 20:46:16 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:46:52 <glx> maybe there's a setting 20:47:04 <glx> but it's just a guess 20:47:47 <Gustavo6046> ah 20:50:26 <Gustavo6046> Is this how you do high-capacity road stations? https://i.imgur.com/OhDqJiK.png 20:50:35 <Gustavo6046> glx: Maybe, but I'd kind of doubt it 20:50:44 <Gustavo6046> I never found a way to customize controls. 20:51:37 <_dp_> Gustavo6046, god no 20:51:49 <_dp_> just line some drive-through ones 20:54:18 <_dp_> Gustavo6046, for shortcut there is an option in citymania client that changes station building so it doesn't need the menu 20:54:28 <_dp_> so you just hold ctrl to build separate stations 20:55:39 <_dp_> makes it kinda awkward to revive deleted stations though 20:58:26 <Gustavo6046> _dp_: ah 20:58:29 <Gustavo6046> wait 20:58:32 <Gustavo6046> lining drive-throughs? 20:58:35 <Gustavo6046> won't they just stop at the nearest one? 20:58:48 <_dp_> they stop at furthest 20:59:18 <Gustavo6046> ah 21:01:04 *** blathijs has quit IRC 21:01:09 <_dp_> stop point moves as they load so they kinda go in waves but that's still way more effecient than dead-end one 21:01:30 <Gustavo6046> ah 21:02:52 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 21:06:34 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:08:15 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:10:05 <milek7> what'd default optimization level for ottd cmake? 21:10:38 <Gustavo6046> The Message History window seems a bit barebones. For instance, there is no way to filter messages in categories, and there is little colour highlighting to helpe ither. 21:11:16 <Gustavo6046> OpenTTD is C++, right? 21:11:25 <Gustavo6046> I wonder if I can mix that with Nim. 21:11:28 <Gustavo6046> Er, Nim with that 21:12:12 <LordAro> we'd rather you didn't 21:12:17 <LordAro> milek7: "debug" 21:12:31 <LordAro> iirc, it doesn't set a level by default 21:12:59 <Gustavo6046> Ooh https://nim-lang.org/docs/backends.html#interfacing-backend-code-calling-nim 21:13:03 <Gustavo6046> LordAro: of course not :P 21:13:06 <Gustavo6046> I mean 21:13:28 <LordAro> fwiw, the windowing system is hugely complex 21:13:33 <Gustavo6046> Nim can compile to C (and in fact iirc it does that in order to link), so that could be done before compiling or something. 21:13:34 <Gustavo6046> Ah 21:13:39 <LordAro> i think it's got its own wiki page 21:13:42 <Gustavo6046> That's why I wanted a more succint way to express this kind of stuff 21:14:07 <LordAro> you're welcome to try rewriting it to be a bit nicer 21:14:21 <LordAro> but we'd probably rather you stuck to the same language :p 21:14:27 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 21:14:56 <LordAro> adding an additional *compiler* dependency would have to have a pretty compelling reason :p 21:15:45 <Gustavo6046> Yeah 21:15:57 <Gustavo6046> No but I mean, it does not need to be 21:16:10 <Gustavo6046> The C code generated by Nim is probably as portable as Nim itself (or I guess C itself). 21:16:18 <Gustavo6046> And I assume that it could be done before commit 21:16:28 <Gustavo6046> Hm, but then contributing to that code could be kind of sad :P 21:38:02 <Gustavo6046> Can town growth traverse tunnels? 21:38:22 <_dp_> yes 21:38:44 <Gustavo6046> yey 21:38:54 <Gustavo6046> I wish it had a lesser cost per tile that way 21:39:00 <Gustavo6046> so it would be easier to unham towns 21:39:47 <Gustavo6046> I think you can tell what I mean 21:40:12 <Gustavo6046> Somehow there are no "pedestrian decorations" in the roads on the other side of the tunnel, but there are some further down, in a way that goes AROUND. 21:40:15 <Gustavo6046> Hang on 21:40:42 <_dp_> it has, 1 tunnel = 1 road tile, so you can tunnel growth pretty well 21:40:52 <Gustavo6046> lol internal server errors 21:40:54 <Gustavo6046> ah 21:40:56 <Gustavo6046> https://i.imgur.com/ioKckFx.png 21:46:08 <Gustavo6046> odd 21:52:00 *** grossing has quit IRC 21:52:04 *** grossing has joined #openttd 21:52:17 <Gustavo6046> Therapist: "Size 2 bridge isn't real, he can't hurt you" 21:52:19 <Gustavo6046> Size 2 bridge: 21:54:54 <Gustavo6046> Anyway 21:55:02 <Gustavo6046> How do you rate city planner me, from zero to ten? https://i.imgur.com/3iHSwIY.jpg 22:12:58 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:13:56 <_dp_> that looks just random :p 22:19:36 <Gustavo6046> True 22:19:48 <Gustavo6046> _dp_: this isn't real life, there won't be no drivers complaining about road network issues! :D 22:19:59 <Gustavo6046> My goal was partly to maximize efficiency, i.e. tiles that could have house, vs. tiles used by roads. 22:20:34 <Gustavo6046> So e.g. I used "corner ends" to allow huosing in diagonal cells in certain road dead ends. 22:20:40 <Gustavo6046> I guess that's similar to a modern cul-de-sac. 22:20:49 <Gustavo6046> I wonder how well a cul-de-sac layout could work with a OpenTTD town. 22:21:05 <Gustavo6046> Just lay 8 x 8 cul-de-sac units, and fund a Town in the middle! 22:22:24 <_dp_> Gustavo6046, if you want to optimize growth you need smth like this https://citymania.org/tools/townsim/layouts/2 22:22:31 <Gustavo6046> ooh 22:22:40 <_dp_> Gustavo6046, for growth your layout is crap 22:25:08 <Gustavo6046> lol 22:25:10 <Gustavo6046> _dp_: true 22:25:23 <Gustavo6046> wait 22:25:35 <Gustavo6046> don't corner roads populate digonal ground tiles? 22:26:02 <_dp_> Gustavo6046, yeah, they do now, emulator is a but outdated 22:26:03 <Gustavo6046> also, something about this layout strikes me as slightly unusual 22:26:06 <Gustavo6046> https://i.imgur.com/z5clSEB.png 22:26:07 <_dp_> you can enable it in settings 22:26:08 <Gustavo6046> ah 22:26:10 <Gustavo6046> okay 22:26:23 <Gustavo6046> also 22:27:34 <_dp_> that's like default layout for citybuilding 22:27:40 <_dp_> easy to build and very effecient 22:30:30 <andythenorth> oof bedtime 22:30:32 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:34:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:57:52 <Gustavo6046> Why does every world I play have a town called Nanfield somewhere 22:57:56 <Gustavo6046> :P 23:01:01 <Gustavo6046> _dp_: I'm not a good cityplanner 23:01:07 <Gustavo6046> but I do put thought into it 23:01:13 <Gustavo6046> and effort 23:01:38 <Gustavo6046> The amount of obstacles you often face makes those "ideal patterns" impossible. In a similar way to how the perfect model for boarding a plane is impossible in the real world. 23:06:21 <Gustavo6046> Boarding an airplane ideally, has kind of its own science, and is explained here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHbLRjF0vo 23:06:23 <Gustavo6046> Anyways, 23:06:37 <_dp_> Gustavo6046, openttd is not real world, you can do pretty much everything with that layout as a base 23:06:39 <_dp_> https://i.imgur.com/9H3kwvg.jpg 23:07:42 <Gustavo6046> _dp_: but with rivers and rails and stations and other obstacles -- even such things as slopes-, it becomes more difficult :P 23:08:43 <Gustavo6046> Anyway - are all the open space tiles in this town square eligible for house construction? I did my best. https://i.imgur.com/hTGlOKT.png 23:08:44 <_dp_> not much, just weave the roads around 23:08:49 <Gustavo6046> It's ugly, but still 23:08:50 <Gustavo6046> Oh? 23:08:58 <Gustavo6046> Well, efficiency takes a hit 23:09:06 <Gustavo6046> Not to mention existing town structures 23:09:38 <Gustavo6046> Holy crap, that's a massive screen -- and an even more massive town! 23:10:31 <_dp_> as long as you don't make loops and keep just 8 roads effeciency should be alright 23:12:51 *** sla_ro|master2 has quit IRC 23:15:09 <_dp_> another example https://i.imgur.com/yUPohQe.jpg 23:18:53 <Gustavo6046> ah 23:19:02 <Gustavo6046> loops 23:19:23 <Gustavo6046> _dp_: seeds have been sown 23:19:26 <Gustavo6046> https://i.imgur.com/WVIDYvB.png 23:19:28 <Gustavo6046> what do you mean loops? 23:29:02 <_dp_> Gustavo6046, whole idea of that spiral layout is that if you random walk from center you can never loop back on yourself 23:29:11 <_dp_> because if town loops back it skips a day 23:30:06 <Gustavo6046> ah 23:30:20 *** arikover has quit IRC 23:31:20 <Gustavo6046> _dp_: Fund Town makes it all that much harder 23:31:54 <Gustavo6046> but until it grows into the WHOLE artificial island, I find it pretty difficult it'll find any loops apart from those it generated with :P 23:32:12 <Gustavo6046> I thought it was about avoiding dead ends, too. 23:33:51 <_dp_> well, if you want max effeciency you pretty much have to bulldoze all autogenerated crap and build it anew 23:34:09 <_dp_> and yeah, if it doesn't reach the point where it loops it doesn't matter :p 23:34:26 <_dp_> dead ends too, that goes without saying 23:34:56 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:35:03 <_dp_> well, loops pretty much equal dead ends, once town reaches either it skips a day 23:36:02 <_dp_> ah, no, loops are slightly better, it doesn't skip immedietaly, it justs loops around but it there is too much looping it will reach distance limit 23:37:24 <Gustavo6046> ah 23:37:46 <Gustavo6046> _dp_: here's a comparison between a town I had more room to do spirals with, and one I basically surgeried them in 23:38:07 <Gustavo6046> Seaburg: https://i.imgur.com/Yk0XY7H.png 23:38:20 <Gustavo6046> (it's a different screenshot, trust me) 23:38:26 <Gustavo6046> Lewisbridge: https://i.imgur.com/Jlx6VPr.jpg 23:39:25 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:41:05 <_dp_> neither is even remotely close to what I posted 23:41:10 <Gustavo6046> I knowww 23:41:20 <_dp_> they're so messed up already that whole purpose of spiraling is lost 23:41:29 <Gustavo6046> yeah 23:41:48 <Gustavo6046> gosh these towns are so messed up 23:41:57 <milek7> https://i.imgur.com/Dkh9m9C.png 23:42:50 <Gustavo6046> ooh, cool! 23:43:08 <Gustavo6046> I wonder if we have VGA framebuffer support. I feel like LordAro would know., 23:49:09 <nielsm> not directly, but SDL or Allegro probably has it (Allegro more likely) 23:49:30 <nielsm> just the Allegro drivers set is not really maintained 23:53:42 <milek7> weird, bananas seems to be broken on haiku 23:57:13 <milek7> well, network generally is broken