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00:00:04 <LordAro> i was thinking of the Order*Flags, because i touched them recently 00:00:19 <LordAro> though they're not doing any bitshifting of other enum values, i suppose 00:00:29 <TrueBrain> LordAro: tnx for review, and yeah, I will deduplicate before merging 00:00:40 <TrueBrain> This just became really silly 00:01:23 <LordAro> mm 00:03:58 <_dp_> and he checks hasbit and does clrbit without even using the result 00:04:03 <_dp_> can be just == ffs 00:04:22 <LordAro> review pls :) 00:04:44 <_dp_> tommorrow mb 00:05:42 <_dp_> also kinda hard to say what's the right approach here since openttd doesn't have widgeds and hotkeys mixed anywhere 00:05:42 <_dp_> cmclient has but I'm not very fond of it either 00:05:56 <_dp_> but it's for sure nicer 00:11:06 *** Progman has quit IRC 00:12:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 00:14:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8665: Codechange: Apply coding style https://git.io/Jtymk 00:14:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8665: Codechange: Apply coding style https://git.io/Jt6n6 00:14:48 <LordAro> FORCE MERGE 00:15:57 <glx> red buttons and confirmation checkbox :) 00:16:12 <TrueBrain> They are meant to be pressed 00:53:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8603: Feature: Object class selection string filtering https://git.io/JtyYt 00:53:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8603: Feature: Object class selection string filtering https://git.io/JtyYq 00:53:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8603: Feature: Object class selection string filtering https://git.io/JtyYY 00:53:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8603: Feature: Object class selection string filtering https://git.io/JtyYG 00:54:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8603: Feature: Object class selection string filtering https://git.io/JtyYZ 00:54:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8603: Feature: Object class selection string filtering https://git.io/Jts3i 00:55:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8603: Feature: Object class selection string filtering https://git.io/JtyYW 00:56:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8603: Feature: Object class selection string filtering https://git.io/JtyY8 01:05:56 *** glx has quit IRC 01:23:12 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:48:53 *** Wuzzy has quit IRC 03:27:30 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 03:31:01 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:57:32 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 04:35:11 *** Hazzard has quit IRC 04:36:50 *** V453000 has quit IRC 04:54:48 *** V453000 has joined #openttd 04:54:49 *** Hazzard has joined #openttd 05:18:32 *** Speeder has quit IRC 05:39:49 *** Speeder has joined #openttd 05:44:46 *** jjavah0lic has joined #openttd 05:45:02 *** jjavaholic has quit IRC 06:42:36 *** qwebirc76033 has joined #openttd 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WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 08:55:23 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 08:56:15 <andythenorth> yo 08:56:43 <Xaroth> oy 09:09:18 *** Xaroth has quit IRC 09:13:16 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 09:26:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8603: Feature: Object class selection string filtering https://git.io/JtyzG 09:26:18 <TrueBrain> not the first time he makes us read: yes, ok, sure, done, fixed, ... :P :D 09:26:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8603: Feature: Object class selection string filtering https://git.io/Jts3i 09:27:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8616: Add: Currency: Indonesian Rupiah (IDR) https://git.io/Jt4LH 09:28:09 *** Xaroth has joined #openttd 09:31:55 <TrueBrain> now, how the fuck do I merge those video drivers .. they are slightly different enough for that to be tricky :P 09:39:43 <TrueBrain> LordAro: what would you prefer .. that I make a new PR out of merging the video drivers (given you already reviewed the 60fps PR), or that I attach it to that PR? 09:39:57 <TrueBrain> I was thinking of doing that in the PR already, but it is far less trivial than I expected :P 09:40:15 <TrueBrain> so just a sanity check :D 09:40:46 <andythenorth> I wish zsh ran at 60fps for tab auto-complete :P 09:40:58 <andythenorth> it's always just a bit behind, and slower than bash was 09:41:53 <LordAro> TrueBrain: maybe another PR indeed 09:42:30 <TrueBrain> the main issue is that we have 1 driver where the mainloop is unrolled .. 09:42:37 <TrueBrain> you already disliked that when the PR was there 09:42:40 <TrueBrain> and now I dislike it too :D 09:43:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8680: Feature: configurable refresh-rate and change default to 60fps https://git.io/Jt1ur 09:46:16 <andythenorth> \o/ 09:46:37 <TrueBrain> let the issue rain in :P 09:47:33 <andythenorth> nightly builds when? :P 09:47:35 <andythenorth> 7pm? 09:47:44 <TrueBrain> 20:00 CE(S)T 09:47:49 <TrueBrain> you do your local math 09:47:55 <TrueBrain> in 9 hours, basically 09:49:17 <_dp_> so they're eveningly builds then? :p 09:51:28 <TrueBrain> I find all these small bugs 09:51:36 <TrueBrain> when you press shift in debug builds to fastforward 09:51:42 <TrueBrain> it always starts 1 tick after you pressed it 09:51:46 <TrueBrain> because .. weird control logic 09:56:46 <andythenorth> TB forum post maybe? 09:56:49 <andythenorth> I mean I could 09:56:57 <andythenorth> I am so winning at community relations currently 09:57:21 * andythenorth coffee 09:57:30 <TrueBrain> meh .. maybe after the nightly 09:57:40 <TrueBrain> oh-oh .. it seems I introduced a build-error with allegro 09:57:47 <TrueBrain> which is weird, as I am sure I fixed that one 09:58:06 <TrueBrain> clearly, I did not 09:58:33 <TrueBrain> oops .. seems I forgot to push :( 09:58:39 <LordAro> oh no 09:58:45 <TrueBrain> I will fix that in a sec :) 09:59:05 <TrueBrain> our CI is not building allegro :P 09:59:08 <TrueBrain> it is an easy fix 09:59:10 <TrueBrain> so I might as well do that 10:04:20 <TrueBrain> we add libsdl1.2 and libsdl2 as deps for the CI 10:04:25 <TrueBrain> but CMake only always picks either one 10:05:27 <TrueBrain> still no clue what to do with SDL1 honestly 10:06:31 <andythenorth> I can't decide if LC is mad or not 10:06:58 <andythenorth> yet another post of rambling bug reports mixed in with passive insults 10:07:09 <andythenorth> I tried testing some of the reported bugs, but I can't repro 10:07:13 <andythenorth> getting a bit old 10:07:22 <andythenorth> "yes I know I could just ignore" 10:07:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8694: Several fixes related to merging 60fps PR https://git.io/Jty2O 10:07:44 <andythenorth> but there is a high chance of TGP being oddly broken...because TGP, so I have to check 10:07:49 <TrueBrain> I like that he couldn't win it on GitHub, so he went to the forums :) 10:08:09 <andythenorth> I don't like that instead of bug reports we get dummy spits 10:08:15 <andythenorth> but presented as bug reports 10:08:30 * LordAro goes looking for the drama 10:08:57 <Timberwolf> I think there is something in the "low snow levels / high maximum height" thing. 10:09:07 <TrueBrain> I like how he says "default settings", while clearly those are not default settings :D 10:10:05 <Timberwolf> It does appear to generater much flatter maps than temperate does for the same max height. 10:10:07 <TrueBrain> its cute how I tell him nobody understands what max-height does, and he goes on to proof he doesn't understand it 10:10:09 <andythenorth> I am generating maps comparing 1.10 10:10:14 <TrueBrain> it is just a horrible setting to have in that window :) 10:10:16 <_dp_> drama incoming... 10:10:19 <andythenorth> but the problem is that TGP is fucking mysterious 10:10:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl requested changes for pull request #7851: Change: add support for next/previous railtype global hotkeys https://git.io/Jty2G 10:10:24 <_dp_> :p 10:10:25 <andythenorth> so I don't know what settings to test 10:10:37 <andythenorth> like...nothing works in any way I've ever understood 10:11:15 <Timberwolf> There's also a case when you have really high industry density and snowline/max heights at something like 11 and 12 respectively, all the snowy peaks will be taken by other industries before forests can be placed. 10:11:41 <TrueBrain> basically, in my opinion, max-height should be hidden in the settings as "expert" 10:11:46 <TrueBrain> and we should default it to 200 or something 10:12:00 <Timberwolf> But that's more of a, "well what did you expect?" situation. 10:12:01 <TrueBrain> as really, it does nothing people think it does, it is just so incredibly dumb 10:12:29 <LordAro> _dp_: ta :) 10:12:34 <andythenorth> we've flat-topped the mountains for certain combinations, compared to 1.11 10:12:34 <TrueBrain> max-height never INCREASES the amount of hills you get, but can only REDUCE the amount you get, basically .. I mean .. wuth? :P 10:12:35 <TrueBrain> it so pisses me off :D 10:12:53 <andythenorth> to be clear: I only what to know *which* eggs we've broken 10:13:07 <andythenorth> TGP has been a minor tyre fire for years 10:13:09 <TrueBrain> "Found Allegro: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/liballeg.so (found version "4.4.3") " 10:13:11 <TrueBrain> \o/ 10:13:16 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 10:18:33 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 10:26:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge approved pull request #8694: Several fixes related to merging 60fps PR https://git.io/Jty27 10:28:59 <andythenorth> shame we don't have a QA obsessive :) 10:29:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #7851: Change: add support for next/previous railtype global hotkeys https://git.io/Jty2p 10:29:29 <andythenorth> we could script the UI to generate terrains for wide combinations of settings, then save them as heighmap 10:29:37 <andythenorth> then use standard visual diff tools to compare 10:29:53 <andythenorth> then we'd be able to find significant 'regressions' 10:30:50 <andythenorth> I use 'regression' in scare quotes, because it's not clear (1) what TGP is quite supposed to do or (2) if it has ever done it :D 10:34:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8694: Several fixes related to merging 60fps PR https://git.io/Jty2O 10:46:22 <TrueBrain> I wrote prozy 10:46:24 <TrueBrain> proza 10:46:27 <TrueBrain> now I am late :P 10:46:53 <TrueBrain> I thought it would be good to remove a bit of the fake news going on in that thread :) 10:47:59 <Eddi|zuHause> since when was fake news susceptible to good arguments? :p 10:51:54 <TrueBrain> that is also why I am not trying to tell LC that it is fake news :) 10:52:32 <TrueBrain> the goal should not always be to convince the person starting the fire, but instead convincing everyone around the fire they shouldn't be there :) 10:52:54 *** Tulitoma1tti has joined #openttd 10:54:42 *** Tulitomaatti has quit IRC 10:56:00 <LordAro> it's always fun looking at TB's forum posts from a (actual physical) distance 10:56:06 <LordAro> the smileys just stand out :) 10:56:09 <TrueBrain> :D 10:56:35 <TrueBrain> I am rather known for that yes, and I refuse to change to become "normal" :P 10:56:51 <TrueBrain> I am rereading LCs posts, and I cannot believe how much he is misrepresenting what is going on :) 10:56:53 <LordAro> was not suggesting that there was anything wrong with it at all :p 10:57:29 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i think i see what you mean :) 10:58:16 <TrueBrain> I also cannot believe how many people reply in that thread without starting the game and building conclusions on it :) 10:58:29 <TrueBrain> "someone wrote this on the internet, IT MUST BE TRUE" 10:59:03 <TrueBrain> but lets see if we can make the thread a bit more constructive 10:59:04 <TrueBrain> who knows 10:59:14 <andythenorth> I mean people used to literally die from this shit 10:59:15 <Timberwolf> TrueBrain: "path-based signals are more computationally expensive" 10:59:24 <andythenorth> so at least we've moved civilisation on...right? 10:59:47 <TrueBrain> Timberwolf: que? And that sentence is silly ... "I am taller!" 11:00:00 <TrueBrain> You are breathing more! 11:00:01 * andythenorth tried playing an unwinnable Warcraft 1 map 11:00:04 <TrueBrain> :D 11:00:19 <andythenorth> no archers, and 3 enemy knights turn up before I can build a barracks 11:00:23 <Timberwolf> TrueBrain: It's a Reddit/Discord thing, comes up a lot when people talk signalling. 11:00:32 <TrueBrain> yeah ... the unfounded bullshit people write 11:00:38 <TrueBrain> fake-news is not new 11:00:40 <TrueBrain> it now just has a name 11:00:51 <andythenorth> well it used to just be called propaganda 11:01:04 <andythenorth> or sometimes...news 11:01:27 <TrueBrain> right, I am off 11:01:51 <andythenorth> don't go TrueBrain ! 11:01:56 <andythenorth> we will miss you! 11:02:20 * andythenorth procrastinating drawing pixels 11:02:25 <Eddi|zuHause> fake news is probably as old as civilization itself 11:03:05 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably how religions form 11:04:30 *** Tulitoma1tti has quit IRC 11:10:00 * andythenorth tests some more 11:10:16 <andythenorth> the problem is there are too many settings that have influence 11:10:40 <andythenorth> like...variety distribution will affect perceived flatness (or unflatness) 11:10:50 <andythenorth> amount of sea affects max height of hills / mountains 11:12:02 <_dp_> pbs are slow! I have a single pbs and it lags like crazy :P https://i.imgur.com/bMxU4lQ.png 11:12:21 <andythenorth> _dp_ drawing newgrf trains is slow :P 11:12:26 <andythenorth> andythenorth is slow! 11:12:29 <_dp_> no newgrfs :P 11:12:38 <andythenorth> no I mean, literally, drawing them, pixels :) 11:12:41 * andythenorth is just being a twat 11:12:58 <Timberwolf> I love the Dutch aphorisms, they're so often uncanny valley versions of the English ones. 11:13:08 <Timberwolf> e.g. "storm in a glass of water" vs. "storm in a teacup" 11:13:19 <andythenorth> we're practically Dutch 11:13:31 <andythenorth> apart from the Viking and Celtic parts 11:13:52 <andythenorth> more trade across the North Sea than within England, historically 11:13:57 <andythenorth> or something 11:14:05 * andythenorth says things on the internet that might not be true 11:16:38 * andythenorth watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU7wg_mRc3s 11:16:44 <_dp_> find the pbs xD https://i.imgur.com/6HLhiuV.png 11:17:25 <LordAro> oh my 11:17:46 <LordAro> NE middle 11:19:01 <andythenorth> _dp_ you are madder than me even 11:19:05 <andythenorth> what a world 11:20:24 <_dp_> it's kinda fun to watch xD https://i.imgur.com/BT4gUVV.png 11:20:41 <andythenorth> it's like primitive life! 11:20:46 <andythenorth> you should YouTube that 11:21:04 <LordAro> :D 11:21:45 <Xaroth> Something something 2k x 2k map with this 11:22:06 <andythenorth> teach a GS to build them 11:22:08 <andythenorth> or an AI 11:22:19 <Xaroth> or... use a copy/paste patch :P 11:23:09 <andythenorth> https://demonstrations.wolfram.com/2DCellularAutomatonAnimations/ 11:23:23 <_dp_> Xaroth, and how do you think I ended up building that? 11:23:34 <_dp_> I was testing copy-paste patch :p 11:23:53 <Xaroth> go big or go home then :D 11:24:16 <_dp_> buying all the vehicles was a pita though 11:24:40 <_dp_> also untill I think of a way to make them chose more interesting paths going bigger is kinda pointless 11:27:39 <andythenorth> custom orders patch 11:27:51 <andythenorth> give each train preferences 11:28:13 <andythenorth> 'try to turn left' etc 11:28:40 <andythenorth> generative art in OpenTTD 11:28:53 <andythenorth> then we can do an art show! https://www.artnome.com/news/2020/7/12/the-game-of-life-emergence-in-generative-art 11:28:58 <Xaroth> Ideally you'd want to place down a few dozen stations spaced apart, then have each train different orders 11:29:06 <andythenorth> generative patterns, Iron Horse Train Whack trading cards 11:29:11 <Xaroth> (i.e. different order of stations) 11:29:12 <andythenorth> and 3D printed vehicles 11:29:32 <andythenorth> we can get a gallery show 11:37:24 <_dp_> pathfinder totally freaks out on such map https://i.imgur.com/UfiBDD8.png 11:37:28 <_dp_> https://i.imgur.com/WYlKr4e.png 11:41:07 <_dp_> first train reserved THAT but then decided fuck it and went to kill itself xD 11:42:20 <andythenorth> ha 11:42:54 <Eddi|zuHause> trains can't kill themselves. need a minimum of 2 trains 11:45:51 <_dp_> well, it found some lost soul to crash into :p 11:47:40 <_dp_> the fact that it actually went off the reserved path is the most curious 11:48:28 <Xaroth> Maybe he got scared from all the crossings and decided to seek shelter with his buddy train? 11:49:39 <Eddi|zuHause> somethingsomething stalereservation something notreversing something 12:05:27 <andythenorth> drawing certain train liveries is is soooo boring :) 12:08:38 *** dvim has quit IRC 12:14:33 <andythenorth> did someone want a livery feature? 12:14:37 <andythenorth> could we...not? 12:17:23 <Eddi|zuHause> we already have multiple livery features 12:17:35 <Eddi|zuHause> you asked for at least 3 more :p 12:22:08 *** dvim has joined #openttd 12:30:52 <andythenorth> 'livery' 12:31:09 <andythenorth> I think ctrl-click remains my favourite 12:31:17 <andythenorth> we should make it increment a byte 12:31:33 <andythenorth> designing GUIs is hard :P 12:31:43 <andythenorth> ctrl-click is easy 12:32:44 <Eddi|zuHause> you know this is a case of https://xkcd.com/927/ 12:33:24 <Eddi|zuHause> (aside from all the other reasons why ctrl+click is a bad idea) 12:34:06 <andythenorth> I suspect you're correct 12:34:28 <andythenorth> but sometimes being wrong offers more learning potential 12:35:09 <andythenorth> I would patch ctrl-click myself, but I give a low chance that I can correctly migrate the existing bool in savegames 12:35:47 <andythenorth> there's probably some elegant bit maths way to do that, which I would never think of 12:38:07 *** roadt__ has joined #openttd 12:44:35 *** roadt_ has quit IRC 12:51:51 <NGC3982> uhm 12:52:31 <NGC3982> im pretty sure the last episode of the tv show 'the young doctos notebook' uses a train whistle sample that is - if not the same - extremely similar to the new-train-started sample in openttd 12:52:36 <NGC3982> it's uncanny 12:56:58 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 13:12:39 <andythenorth> might be from https://www.discogs.com/No-Artist-Fun-With-100-Sound-Effects/release/7550610 13:12:50 <andythenorth> we all used that in the 90s / early 2000s 13:13:09 <andythenorth> I used it for Flash games a lot, but it shows up in other games and I think it's in KLF songs as well 13:14:00 <andythenorth> no steam train though 13:15:18 <andythenorth> there were a few other effects CD compilations :) 13:27:00 *** glx has joined #openttd 13:27:00 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 13:50:40 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:06:13 *** Samu has joined #openttd 14:14:36 * andythenorth diligently painting pixels 14:17:33 <Samu> you no longer seem to care about coding style? 14:21:12 <Timberwolf> One of the YouTube series my OH watches keeps using the same sound sample as Total Annihilation did for "unit under attack". 14:22:14 <Timberwolf> I'm not sure I like spending my day with the mild underlying tension that somewhere a single AI kbot is boldy attacking a metal extractor I built an hour ago and forgot about. 14:25:13 <Samu> static bool NameSorter(const ObjectClass *const& a, const ObjectClass *const& b) 14:25:17 <Samu> isn't this style wrong? 14:25:47 <LordAro> technically yes 14:25:55 <LordAro> but it's 4 misplaced spaces 14:25:59 <LordAro> it's not the worst thing in the world 14:27:25 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 14:28:28 <glx> finally trying to add msys2/mingw to CI 14:28:38 <Samu> static bool NameSorter(const ObjectClass * const &a, const ObjectClass * const &b) 14:28:44 <glx> will be a long trial and error 14:33:23 <andythenorth> time for Horse release? 14:38:10 <Samu> what's the correct style for this? typedef GUIList<const ObjectClass *, StringFilter &> GUIObjectClassList; 14:38:29 <Samu> or typedef GUIList<const ObjectClass*, StringFilter&> GUIObjectClassList; 14:46:37 *** gelignite has quit IRC 14:47:14 <Xaroth> Timberwolf: I have the same with all kinds of sound samples.. like slack/discord notifications 14:47:40 <Xaroth> and don't get me started on the EVE hull alarm.. that still freaks me out 14:52:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8693: Feature: allow changing the game-speed other than 1x and warp-speed https://git.io/JtyQk 15:07:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #8695: Codechange: Apply coding style https://git.io/JtyQy 15:08:19 *** Wuzzy has joined #openttd 15:12:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 opened issue #8696: Add: Allow stepping the game forward by a tick at a time https://git.io/JtyQb 15:18:01 <andythenorth> ^ interesting idea 15:20:14 <nielsm> yeah I tried hacking that in once but gave up 15:20:25 <nielsm> but it'll be useful for debugging newgrfs and stuff 15:25:55 <_dp_> oh, I have that in cmclient :p 15:27:26 <_dp_> https://github.com/citymania-org/cmclient/commit/5ce2d21223a96934a83b8da43434c7a81f001ef0 15:27:34 <_dp_> quite a hacky implementation though 15:29:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #8696: Add: Allow stepping the game forward by a tick at a time https://git.io/JtyQb 15:32:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on issue #8696: Add: Allow stepping the game forward by a tick at a time https://git.io/JtyQb 15:53:40 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:00:26 *** supermop_Home_ has quit IRC 16:13:31 <Wuzzy> Can someone please review this OpenSFX PR?: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenSFX/pull/14 16:15:05 *** robert[m]2 has quit IRC 16:15:15 *** cawal[m] has quit IRC 16:15:20 *** nartir[m] has quit IRC 16:16:40 *** igor[m]2 has quit IRC 16:19:10 *** jact[m] has quit IRC 16:21:10 *** jeremy[m] has quit IRC 16:21:15 *** einar[m] has quit IRC 16:24:05 *** grag[m] has quit IRC 16:24:37 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 16:25:46 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 16:29:24 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 16:31:36 <supermop_Home> yo 16:32:43 <andythenorth> yo! 16:33:16 <supermop_Home> awaiting hotel sprite pitchforks 16:36:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened issue #8697: GRF scanner progress updating no longer works due to _realtime_tick changes https://git.io/JtydV 16:39:47 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 16:41:28 *** robert[m]2 has joined #openttd 16:44:55 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:47:04 *** cawal[m] has joined #openttd 16:52:10 *** nartir[m] has joined #openttd 17:09:12 *** igor[m]2 has joined #openttd 17:14:30 *** jact[m] has joined #openttd 17:18:33 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 17:19:12 *** jeremy[m] has joined #openttd 17:19:56 *** einar[m] has joined #openttd 17:36:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8697: GRF scanner progress updating no longer works due to _realtime_tick changes https://git.io/JtydV 17:37:27 <glx> wow mouse is fast in debug build now 17:40:44 <LordAro> :D 17:42:02 <glx> and it seems openttd fails to build for 32bit mingw 17:42:29 <glx> https://github.com/glx22/OpenTTD/pull/8/checks?check_run_id=1937219399 17:51:47 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:53:20 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:53:36 *** grag[m] has joined #openttd 17:56:12 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:59:21 <LordAro> glx: those are some weird error messages 17:59:35 <glx> yeah, I need to try locally 17:59:51 <glx> but at least I now why it fails only for 32 bit 18:00:01 <glx> it's in #if defined(__MINGW32__) && !defined(__MINGW64__) 18:00:11 <LordAro> ah, lol 18:00:39 <glx> need to search why we did that though 18:00:52 <glx> maybe it was a missing define at some point 18:00:57 <glx> in old mingw 18:03:33 <LordAro> maybe 18:08:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #8698: Add: [Actions] msys2/MinGW CI https://git.io/Jtyp5 18:09:02 <glx> anyway these checks won't be required to merge 18:10:02 <glx> like VS2017, it will be a safety run and tell we broke something before someone notice it by "accident" 18:22:11 <TrueBrain> booooo, I checked map generation modal window, assuming it would also fix grf scanner ... 18:22:34 <TrueBrain> glx: so now we have 6 (!) Windows targets :P 18:22:45 <TrueBrain> it starts to feels a bit excessive :) 18:24:15 <glx> it's just testing with 3 different compilers (and 2 arch) 18:24:19 <TrueBrain> I have no problems approving it once you fixed the errors btw :) 18:24:27 <TrueBrain> "just" testing a 3x2 18:24:33 <TrueBrain> I love how you used the word "just" there :D 18:25:17 <glx> I could add clang on MSVC too ;) 18:25:34 <glx> but not really used 18:28:25 <TrueBrain> I still would like to add an sdl1 target 18:28:32 <TrueBrain> but that is tricky without a lot of copy/paste 18:28:49 <glx> you can add it to the matrix 18:28:59 <TrueBrain> not easily 18:29:04 <TrueBrain> as it needs to install a different dependency 18:29:18 <TrueBrain> if you have a good idea, I am all ears :) 18:29:43 <glx> that's easy, you put the dependency name in the matrix, and pass it to apt step 18:29:51 <TrueBrain> smart! 18:30:30 <glx> I use a similar trick with msys2 18:31:59 <Wolf01> <TrueBrain> it starts to feels a bit excessive :) <- at least one or another should compile and run fine, not like some other os projects I tried where the only target (win32) did not even compile 18:33:42 <glx> ok the breaking define was added 14 years ago, I think it should be fine to remove it as it's now unneeded 18:37:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8699: Fix d437445c: also use std::chrono for the GRFFileScanner modal window https://git.io/Jtyhw 18:37:22 <dwfreed> yeah, you can have arbitrary things in your matrix in GH Actions 18:37:33 <TrueBrain> my PR makes all the "required" things break again :P 18:37:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8699: Fix d437445c: also use std::chrono for the GRFFileScanner modal window https://git.io/Jtyhw 18:38:20 <TrueBrain> dwfreed: there is a difference between knowing the capabilities of a system and thinking of using it a certain way :) 18:38:23 <glx> oh of course 18:38:43 <glx> like I broke it when adding VS2017 to the matrix 18:38:44 <TrueBrain> glx: can you test my PR to see if I really fixed the issue? I don't have that many NewGRFs to really notice it :D 18:39:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8697: GRF scanner progress updating no longer works due to _realtime_tick changes https://git.io/JtydV 18:39:28 <andythenorth> supermop_Home now we are going meta :) 18:44:49 <TrueBrain> Found SDL: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libSDLmain.a;/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libSDL.so;-lpthread (found version "1.2.15") 18:44:52 <TrueBrain> w00p, that works :D 18:45:03 <glx> nice 18:45:14 <TrueBrain> yeah .. we now test all our video drivers again :) 18:45:18 <TrueBrain> which has value :P 18:45:48 <glx> well we don't test if driver works, but it should at least build ;) 18:48:53 <LordAro> we don't test if any of them work :p 18:51:14 <glx> hmm I removed the define, and now it fails to link on something unrelated (at least locally) 18:53:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #8480: Multitile depots https://git.io/JL5Hh 18:55:38 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd 18:56:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8699: Fix d437445c: also use std::chrono for the GRFFileScanner modal window https://git.io/Jtyjg 18:56:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8697: GRF scanner progress updating no longer works due to _realtime_tick changes https://git.io/JtydV 18:56:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8699: Fix d437445c: also use std::chrono for the GRFFileScanner modal window https://git.io/Jtyhw 18:56:48 <TrueBrain> tnx glx ! 18:57:13 <TrueBrain> very happy bugs are reported before the first nightly 18:57:16 <TrueBrain> that is just \o/ 18:57:22 <andythenorth> :) 18:57:24 <TrueBrain> I disabled the Linux CI targets for now as required, and enabled the VS2017 18:57:32 <TrueBrain> possibly we need some more forcing 18:57:41 <TrueBrain> might as well add the new linux ones as required 18:57:51 <glx> I intentionnaly not enable VS2017 :) 18:58:03 <glx> 2019 should be enough to validate 18:58:11 <TrueBrain> if you run it, make it required, tbfh 18:58:15 <TrueBrain> otherwise people will miss it failing :) 18:58:31 <TrueBrain> what is the point in CIing something if you don't care about the result :P 19:00:27 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 19:01:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JtSeU 19:01:19 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 19:01:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8693: Feature: allow changing the game-speed other than 1x and warp-speed https://git.io/JtSeL 19:02:56 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: I just rebased OpenGL and now I have to rebase and detangle again :P 19:03:15 <TrueBrain> :D 19:03:19 <TrueBrain> I promise you, it is not really a lot of work 19:03:27 <TrueBrain> but you can also wait till I finish my "merge video drivers" PR 19:03:35 <TrueBrain> as I will cherry-pick some OpenGL thingies in there already 19:03:41 <TrueBrain> mostly the draw_lock unlock/lock stuff :) 19:03:43 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 19:03:56 <michi_cc> In that case I will glady wait :) 19:03:58 <TrueBrain> (I know it is not a lot of work, as I tested my changeset on top of the OpenGL branch :P) 19:04:01 <TrueBrain> :D 19:04:25 <TrueBrain> should be done tomorrow, so you don't even have to wait that long! :) 19:04:34 <TrueBrain> its silly how the same all video drivers are now 19:04:37 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 19:04:40 <TrueBrain> for their main game loop 19:05:48 <andythenorth> crazy russian snow eating train https://www.railpictures.net/photo/763731/ 19:05:59 <TrueBrain> I just have to figure out a way to make it clean between all drivers, given SDL2 has a weird unrolled loop the others do not .. 19:06:03 <andythenorth> it conveyors the snow into the wagons behind 19:06:33 <andythenorth> supermop_Home see, the Arctic is Flat? :) https://www.railpictures.net/photo/763678/ 19:06:36 <andythenorth> oh wait...that's Texas 19:07:03 <TrueBrain> I love that "the thread" now derailed in MY ARCTIC IS FLAT 19:07:07 <TrueBrain> which is a nice change of pace :) 19:07:34 <andythenorth> I am intrigued why we don't have this climate https://www.railpictures.net/photo/763654/ 19:07:54 <_dp_> I always felt that subarctic is more like alpine despite the name 19:08:01 <_dp_> it's even called that way in code in some places 19:08:05 <TrueBrain> _dp_: that is because that was the intention :) 19:08:20 <TrueBrain> it needs from sea level to snow level 19:08:28 <_dp_> like snowline isn't even a thing in subarctic 19:08:32 <_dp_> permafrost is :p 19:08:48 <TrueBrain> so the solution is .. rename the climate! 19:08:52 <TrueBrain> I like your way of thinking :D 19:10:45 * andythenorth reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6ppen_climate_classification 19:11:01 <andythenorth> we lack a cfa / cfb / csb mediterranean / californian climate 19:11:35 <TrueBrain> its funny that it turns out, subarctic only has to do with the temp-range 19:11:37 <andythenorth> I always forget to call it subarctic, instead of arctic 19:11:40 <TrueBrain> not with type of landscape :P 19:11:42 <andythenorth> but I thought it was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6ppen_climate_classification#Dfc/Dwc/Dsc:_Subarctic_or_boreal_climates 19:11:52 <andythenorth> well the temp range affects the type of flora and fauna 19:12:11 <andythenorth> but not the topology so much 19:12:14 <andythenorth> so much 19:13:09 <TrueBrain> I was shocked, the nightly triggered close to its intended time 19:13:18 <andythenorth> anyway we could just bin it all off, invent 7 climates and super awesome presets for them 19:13:31 * _dp_ lives in subarctic 19:13:37 <_dp_> or, well, close enough :p 19:13:44 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: that is one way of going, yes :) 19:13:50 <andythenorth> temperate, mediterranean, alpine (temperate green with snow), subarctic, subtropic, toyland, mars 19:13:53 <TrueBrain> but the game is a bit tight to the 4 climates 19:13:56 <TrueBrain> for some reason, basesets 19:13:58 <andythenorth> stuff and things :) 19:14:14 <andythenorth> yes, I do not volunteer to draw mediterranean :P 19:14:22 <TrueBrain> not sure if we can mix them :P 19:14:25 <andythenorth> alpine was already done, there are sets of green-snow tiles 19:14:45 <andythenorth> oh I forgot brickland 19:15:01 <TrueBrain> well, presets can force certain NewGRFs 19:15:08 <andythenorth> discord gravedug brickland today 19:15:08 <TrueBrain> so strictly seen, your idea can work just fine 19:15:17 <TrueBrain> if they can enforce a certain baseset, I guess 19:15:31 <andythenorth> brickland revival! 19:15:44 <TrueBrain> omg, I wrote brickland did I not? 19:15:50 <andythenorth> apparently 19:15:55 <TrueBrain> got really annoyed by all the people on the sidelines telling me what to do 19:15:57 <TrueBrain> I remember vague :) 19:16:09 <andythenorth> alpine https://www.railpictures.net/photo/763677/ 19:16:17 <andythenorth> lacks snow in that picture 19:16:26 <andythenorth> must be a variable snowline :) 19:16:37 <TrueBrain> I still want to make a legocad -> NewGRF tool 19:16:43 <TrueBrain> its just fun to design your own trains etc 19:16:50 <andythenorth> found some snow https://www.railpictures.net/photo/763642/ 19:16:57 <_dp_> yeah merge existing climates and split into new ones! :p 19:17:14 <_dp_> or, well, I guess toyland can stay xDD 19:17:16 <andythenorth> shard for different climates in same game 19:17:24 <andythenorth> go big! 19:17:28 <TrueBrain> with presets, I would think we get a bit more room to give people control over detailed settings in the terrain generator 19:17:39 <andythenorth> if we knew how it worked :) 19:17:46 <andythenorth> I patched it once 19:17:49 <andythenorth> was funny 19:17:58 <TrueBrain> which reminds me, tomorrow I will PR the removal of "max height" 19:18:21 <TrueBrain> and just fix it to some value like 240 or what-ever 19:18:36 <_dp_> funny fact - citymania has it's own max height setting 19:18:45 <_dp_> because apparently default one was not enough :p 19:18:46 <TrueBrain> or at the very least, remove it from the mapgen window 19:18:48 <TrueBrain> and to settings 19:18:52 <TrueBrain> as it is such an anti-setting 19:19:03 <TrueBrain> I just hate that it has nothing to do with the mapgen 19:19:07 <TrueBrain> its such bull 19:19:28 <LordAro> not worth trying to make it actually affect mapgen? 19:19:34 <LordAro> presumably that was the original intent 19:19:43 <TrueBrain> we can always reintroduce a new "max height" 19:19:55 <TrueBrain> but the current one already has a function, which is just bullshit to allow people to configure it :P 19:20:05 <TrueBrain> at least, I could not come up with any use-case 19:20:07 <TrueBrain> except for the very niche 19:20:11 <LordAro> yeah 19:20:34 <TrueBrain> what I would like to do, in presets, is allow a bit better tuning of height of mapgens, yes 19:20:39 <TrueBrain> instead of this fixed table we have now 19:20:42 <TrueBrain> depending on map-size 19:21:07 <TrueBrain> as that would actually mean we have a "height" setting that does what people expect 19:22:07 <TrueBrain> but yeah, possibly good to do that in 1 PR .. 1 commit removing the current bullshit 19:22:09 <TrueBrain> 1 to add a new setting 19:22:38 <TrueBrain> current problem is that it is a 2x2 table, depending on map-size and terrain type 19:22:45 <TrueBrain> meh .. will figure something out I am sure :) 19:23:37 <andythenorth> so it doesn't affect map max height? :O 19:23:42 <andythenorth> explains why it never worked for me 19:23:49 <TrueBrain> it does effect the MAP max height 19:23:52 <TrueBrain> just not the map GEN max height 19:23:57 <andythenorth> oh words 19:23:59 <andythenorth> are so subtle 19:24:00 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 19:24:10 <andythenorth> this is winning 19:24:17 <andythenorth> I assumed I was using it wrong 19:24:22 <TrueBrain> this is what I have been telling people for weeks now .. NOBODY understand what it does 19:24:29 <TrueBrain> as what it does is bullshit 19:24:39 <TrueBrain> it caps the technical max height level of the game to that value 19:24:42 <TrueBrain> mapgen just does its thing 19:24:47 <TrueBrain> and if it tries to go above it, it flattens it 19:24:53 <andythenorth> you told me this before 19:24:55 <TrueBrain> yes 19:24:56 <TrueBrain> I did 19:25:00 <andythenorth> it was just so lolz my brain discarded it 19:25:01 <TrueBrain> with as much WTF?!?!?!?! as I do now 19:25:08 <TrueBrain> its balony 19:25:17 <TrueBrain> which made me giggle most this morning, as I say: nobody understand what the setting does 19:25:22 <TrueBrain> LC goes: WITH THIS WINDOW IT WILL BE CLEAR 19:25:26 <TrueBrain> showing he has no clue what it does 19:25:28 <TrueBrain> I cannot blame him 19:25:28 <andythenorth> I think you'll have to tell me a third time before I remember 19:25:33 <TrueBrain> but that arrogance is amuzing 19:25:47 <TrueBrain> if a dev tells you it doesn't do what anyone things .. take a hint :) 19:25:57 <andythenorth> but it will impose a max height, for small values? 19:25:59 <andythenorth> during gen? 19:26:03 <andythenorth> or is that also bullshit? 19:26:10 <TrueBrain> if you put it at 3, nothing will be above height level 3 19:26:17 <frosch123> oh wow, someone actually noticed the issue with town names in scenario editor :o 19:26:18 <TrueBrain> what mapgen would have done above it, would be flat 19:26:30 <TrueBrain> frosch123: yes; one of our only true scenario creators 19:26:33 <andythenorth> oh so that's the plateau maker :D 19:26:37 <TrueBrain> he asked me on Discord, I told him to make an issue 19:26:37 <frosch123> i was wondering whether anyone would notice, and then it takes only a few days 19:26:41 <TrueBrain> thought you could appreciate it :) 19:27:02 <frosch123> TrueBrain: well, i was kind of aware of the issue. i just postponed it :) 19:27:09 <frosch123> so, sorry to him :) 19:27:12 <andythenorth> hmm 19:27:20 <andythenorth> so delete all the cargo_age_period crap from Iron Horse? 19:27:21 <TrueBrain> bewust onbewust, how we say in Dutch 19:27:22 <andythenorth> it does nothing 19:27:23 <TrueBrain> that is fine :) 19:27:39 <andythenorth> is that a savegame bump yes/no? /me wonders 19:28:53 <frosch123> is it hacktoberfest again? 19:29:17 <_dp_> btw, it's mildly annoying to retune terragen settings for all the game modes each time new version comes out >:D 19:29:33 <_dp_> though I guess I should just switch to custom terragens already 19:35:08 <frosch123> TrueBrain: you could try setting max_height after map generation to max-generated-height + something 19:35:22 <TrueBrain> what is the use? :) 19:35:25 <TrueBrain> why not just 240 or something 19:35:40 <frosch123> max_height is used to define relative heights 19:35:53 <frosch123> snowline to 70% 19:36:00 <frosch123> use a variable snowline height newgrf 19:36:03 <frosch123> like opengfx+landscape 19:36:13 <TrueBrain> snowline is an option, not? 19:36:22 <TrueBrain> anyway, for those values we can use the max-generated-height, sure 19:36:23 <frosch123> variable snowline height is defined as percentage of max height 19:36:33 <TrueBrain> so there are 2 snowline heights in the game? 19:36:40 <frosch123> no, 365 19:36:45 <TrueBrain> 2 variables :P 19:37:13 <andythenorth> 365 / 2? 19:37:18 * andythenorth pedant 19:37:50 <frosch123> oh, it's also used to save heightmaps 19:38:00 <frosch123> well, you can grep yourself 19:38:09 <frosch123> but i think removing it is not as easy as it sounds 19:38:21 <TrueBrain> as I mentioned, at the very least move it to settings, away from mapgen :) 19:38:29 <TrueBrain> if one fails, the next will have to do :P 19:39:09 <TrueBrain> and if that fails .. well .. something at least 19:39:14 <TrueBrain> just to start untangling this web :P 19:41:15 * andythenorth deleted cargo_age_period from everything except metro trains 19:41:16 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=88547 as promised 19:41:26 <andythenorth> now to see if it has made any difference to my savegame 19:41:33 <andythenorth> (spoiler: it won't) 19:41:41 <andythenorth> TrueBrain \o/ :D 19:41:51 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 19:43:51 <andythenorth> bye bye cargo again crap, and the need to maintain you :) 19:44:08 <andythenorth> and the player requests to show it in buy menu, even though it will DO BUGGER ALL IN MOST CASES 19:44:24 <andythenorth> another case of a thing that looks like it does a thing, in OpenTTD 19:44:31 <andythenorth> but does nothing like the thing at all 19:44:43 <andythenorth> why did I write 'again' not 'aging' 19:45:22 <andythenorth> there is no hope :D 19:46:40 <milek7_> >Well, at 60fps, I can hit a simulation rate of 9999.99 frames/sec (on an empty map, I know, cheating). It turns out, I found the upper-limit of the Framerate Window ... 19:47:07 <milek7_> eeh, it's not that you need these patches to hit 9999fps limit ;P 19:47:20 <frosch123> ottd speedrun? 19:48:06 <frosch123> is there something like ender pearls in ottd? 19:49:48 <nielsm> maintaining company rating 1000 for 5 years maybe 19:49:58 <andythenorth> lol, removing the cargo aging 'bonus', all modified trains now make more money 19:50:11 * andythenorth suspects confounding factors in the savegame :D 19:50:24 <TrueBrain> frosch123: yesterday someone should me people are speed running OpenTTD ... where FF is allowed 19:50:28 <TrueBrain> "winning" in 10 seconds 19:50:32 <TrueBrain> no clue what people are smoking 19:51:03 <nielsm> two years ago or something someone did post on tt-forums about speedrunning 19:51:06 <andythenorth> hmm if pax route has multiple transfers, removing cargo aging bonus means some vehicles get less transfer credit penalty? 19:51:13 <_dp_> frosch123, yes, sell the train after delivery and buy the new one near the pickup :p 19:51:15 <nielsm> and I told them that ffwd makes no sense in that context because it depends on machine speed 19:51:38 <andythenorth> speedruns now have different rules 19:51:41 <andythenorth> using some custom grf 19:52:35 <andythenorth> discord explained it to me :) 19:52:40 <andythenorth> but I forgot :) 19:53:59 <nielsm> why don't they use a GS that auto-pauses the game when the goal is reached and then shows the number of in-game days 19:54:43 <_dp_> nielsm, too much sense :p 19:54:54 <_dp_> add some more and you'll get citymania :p 19:55:12 <LordAro> _dp_: that strategy is only effective if you're an AI 19:55:20 <andythenorth> I think it's more of a Train Whack! style entertainment :) 19:55:24 <LordAro> too much work for an actual person beyond a couple of vehicles 19:55:31 <LordAro> rondje does it, iirc 19:56:02 <_dp_> LordAro, pfft, I've seen actual person juggling 6 trains on a single line with depots :p 19:56:08 <_dp_> selling train is nothing in comparison :P 19:56:36 <_dp_> or single track I guess that's called... 19:59:42 <_dp_> all to save a little bit of money on not doing passing loops 20:12:02 <andythenorth> so how do station ratings work? :) 20:12:03 <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/Game%20Mechanics/#station-rating 20:12:31 <andythenorth> if I run a piglet vehicle constantly, AND autoreplace it aggressively, will I get max rating? 20:13:12 <andythenorth> newgrf vehicle with 1 year life? 20:13:50 <_dp_> aggressive autoreplace gives you +13% 20:13:53 <frosch123> it also needs to look fast 20:15:05 <frosch123> lol, player-written game-mechanics wiki are always silly 20:15:29 <andythenorth> so 255km/h? 20:15:33 <frosch123> i guess it's an approximation 20:15:34 <andythenorth> I never 100% trust the wiki 20:15:48 <andythenorth> what % is appropriate to trust wiki? :) 20:15:53 <frosch123> use a ship with 127km/h 20:16:07 <andythenorth> so attach canal to every station :) 20:16:16 <frosch123> set it's livespan to 2 years, so it is auto-renewed often 20:16:45 <andythenorth> I think giving vehicles some property for 'affects rating' would be interesting :) 20:16:51 <andythenorth> but as I don't understand rating mechanic :) 20:16:57 <andythenorth> I can't propose 20:17:28 <frosch123> did you try extreme values on loading speed? 20:17:46 <frosch123> try changing vehicle properties, which players actually notice 20:18:05 <frosch123> i think default is 5, so you could try making it 5 times slower 20:18:12 <_dp_> andythenorth, what's the point? 20:18:27 <_dp_> andythenorth, best case nothing changes, worst case you get a rating pushing exploit 20:22:43 <andythenorth> _dp_ I'd like to get higher ratings 20:22:56 <_dp_> advertise! :p 20:23:02 <andythenorth> now I know about statues, I can get 82% 20:23:05 <andythenorth> but not more 20:23:41 <andythenorth> oh station with recently replaced trains has 84% 20:24:26 <andythenorth> it's always bothered me that I can't win that 20:24:28 <_dp_> well, you get easy 77 + 17 for speed 20:24:37 <_dp_> other than that is only age and ads 20:24:46 <andythenorth> I did have 100% in FIRS, but that was a bit weird 20:24:57 <andythenorth> it de-incentivises providing regular service 20:25:07 <andythenorth> and just lets cargo pile up with no consequence 20:25:43 <_dp_> cargo pile gets you from +16 to -35 so it's quite important 20:26:29 <andythenorth> not if the callback sets the value to 100% in grf :P 20:26:38 <_dp_> ah, that yes 20:26:40 <andythenorth> maybe I should restore the station rating to FIRS 20:26:48 <andythenorth> losing is boring 20:26:58 <andythenorth> 10/10 is always the score you want 20:27:14 <andythenorth> what's the newagerating switch? 20:28:29 <_dp_> newagerating? 20:28:41 <andythenorth> If the newagerating switch is turned on, the calculation changes. You get 33 points for vehicles younger than 5 years, and get 0 points for vehicles older than 21 years. Between these two ages, score drops slowly, by 2 points per year. 20:28:45 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callbacks#Custom_station_rating_calculation_.28145.29 20:29:08 <andythenorth> no setting for that in OpenTTD 20:29:57 <_dp_> yeah, that doesn't seem to be a thing in openttd 20:30:22 <andythenorth> well maybe FIRS needs a new way to fix ratings 20:30:39 <andythenorth> the speed thing is weird 20:31:18 <_dp_> station ratings work kind of ok, you get about 70% normal rating, 80% with statue, 90% after replacement and 100% with regular advertisement 20:31:27 <_dp_> so the more money and effort you spend the higher it gets 20:32:04 <andythenorth> lots of slow vehicles in grfs I make 20:32:12 <andythenorth> I never considered that they are crap for ratings 20:32:23 <andythenorth> this might require a redesign 20:32:49 <andythenorth> or maybe some explanation somewhere 20:33:00 <_dp_> well, I'd say slow vehicles are crap for everything but looks :p 20:33:03 <andythenorth> maybe in vehicle windows: "Station rating: poor" 20:33:11 <_dp_> you want max speed for profit anyway 20:33:40 <andythenorth> different game style 20:34:00 <andythenorth> and lots of FIRS cargos are practically flat profit curve 20:34:20 <_dp_> yeah, but you're not after max effeciency than maxing station ratings are also irrelevant 20:34:31 <andythenorth> it's just like losing 20:34:39 <andythenorth> if you're gonna get scored on a thing, you want 100% 20:34:42 <andythenorth> anything else is ~failing 20:34:55 <_dp_> x2 it :p 20:35:21 <_dp_> so 50% becomes 100%, and 100% is 200% 20:35:24 <_dp_> double win :p 20:35:44 <andythenorth> how many ad campaigns do I need to buy to get 100%? 20:35:50 <andythenorth> I bought like 10, but the rating hasn't moved yet 20:35:52 <_dp_> one 20:35:57 <_dp_> but it won't last long 20:36:09 <_dp_> and it only works within a certain radius from town center 20:36:11 <andythenorth> oh 20:36:13 <_dp_> 20 tiles for large 20:36:21 <andythenorth> yeah these are further than that 20:36:42 <andythenorth> I have minimal towns, towns just get in the way and have no purpose 20:37:07 <_dp_> well, it's always same radius so town size doesn't matter 20:37:25 <andythenorth> yeah I've found a freight station near a town, now 99% 20:37:34 <andythenorth> so is there a GS that will just buy ad campaigns for me? 20:37:43 <andythenorth> or just deduct money and increase my rating? 20:38:06 <_dp_> cmclient has auto advertisement 20:38:25 <andythenorth> can it be included in vanilla? :) 20:38:26 <andythenorth> hmm 20:38:30 <andythenorth> but might as well just use grf 20:38:56 <andythenorth> 'auto win' mechanics :P 20:39:27 <andythenorth> ok so, adjust ratings calculation to account for slower vehicles in grf, nerf the age thing because it's stupid? 20:39:30 <_dp_> it kinda should be included in vanilla imo 20:39:33 *** JGR has joined #openttd 20:39:35 <_dp_> not a bad mechanic 20:39:44 <andythenorth> 'p2w' 20:39:57 <_dp_> pay to win even more pay :p 20:39:59 <andythenorth> 'advertising subscription' 20:40:48 <andythenorth> hmm, this again precludes any role for 'special' vehicles 20:40:53 <JGR> Ratings and such seems a bit too much like micromanagement hoop-jumping to me 20:40:54 <andythenorth> cargo aging is junk 20:41:01 <andythenorth> negative run cost isn't possible 20:41:09 <andythenorth> rating bonus isn't possible 20:41:33 <andythenorth> more ideas? 20:41:44 <JGR> If you did manage to have negative run costs, I'm sure someone would just run an empty train full of restaurant cars in a circle :) 20:41:50 <andythenorth> first thing I thought of :) 20:41:56 <_dp_> andythenorth, make it sound funny? :p 20:42:05 *** nielsm has quit IRC 20:42:50 <andythenorth> JGR I made this flash game for the launch of Railroad Tycoon 3, but I shipped it with a bug... 20:42:51 <andythenorth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq9FlcoXTkM 20:43:02 <andythenorth> after launch players discovered you could just loop the train to win :) 20:43:54 <JGR> Hehe 20:44:26 <andythenorth> I should have made the train alpha shift to black when it crashed :P 20:44:28 <andythenorth> flash could do that 20:44:39 <andythenorth> tint, not alpha * 20:45:19 <_dp_> what I like to do is just have a steady progression of vehicles with a faster one every few years 20:45:43 <_dp_> no property shenanigans, no railtype conversions just simple and straightforward 20:45:50 <_dp_> and make up for it in other places 20:46:22 <_dp_> well, I guess engine goals are an option as well now 20:47:29 <andythenorth> use it for daylength 20:48:05 <JGR> I tend to run my network with trains at roughly the same speed for the whole game 20:48:07 <_dp_> I don't need daylength :p 20:48:32 <JGR> I don't usually bother with vehicle progression, except for things like separate high speed networks later in the game 20:49:21 <andythenorth> so many playstyles :) 20:49:56 <andythenorth> hmm 20:50:09 <andythenorth> well maybe restaurant cars just halve the running costs of the other vehicles in conists 20:50:12 <andythenorth> consist * 20:51:01 <_dp_> yeah, drunk cows pay more! :p 20:51:27 <andythenorth> cows buy sandwiches too 20:52:12 <andythenorth> seems a bit limited, not sure other authors will be able to make use of it :) 20:52:27 <andythenorth> I guess they'll just carry on setting pointless cargo_age_period values :) 20:53:06 <JGR> As long as they don't cause desyncs or any other bugs it doesn't really matter 20:53:43 <_dp_> yep, all is irrelevant but max speed :p 20:53:44 <JGR> Money isn't that hard to come by once you've got started 20:53:47 <_dp_> speed and powah!!! 20:55:52 <_dp_> whenever I play unfamiliar set I just pick the fastest engine and add enough of it for a decent acceleration xD 20:56:42 <andythenorth> there really aren't many dimensions to make vehicles 'interesting' 20:56:55 <andythenorth> it's why stats are very levelled across most of Iron Horse 20:57:10 <andythenorth> waste of time trying to calculate exactly which vehicle is 'optimum' 20:57:20 <andythenorth> just pick one with roughly correct power, that looks nice 20:57:32 <andythenorth> and attach wagons that refit the cargo, that you like look of 20:58:21 <_dp_> I don't even know what can be done to make them "interesting" 20:58:28 <_dp_> they're just used to get cargo from a to b 20:58:29 <JGR> Wagon capacity is even more a case of just pick the best one 20:58:39 <_dp_> why buiyng the train suddenly needs to be a puzzle? :p 20:58:41 <JGR> I don't know why some set authors include rubbish wagons 20:58:47 <andythenorth> I've had multiple requests to make some wagons more 'advantageous' 20:58:56 <andythenorth> but then the game is 'read stats, ignore all other wagons' 20:58:58 <andythenorth> like...wow 21:01:33 <andythenorth> but stupidly I did add 'luxury' pax coaches with lower capacity 21:01:47 <andythenorth> on fallacy that cargo age period could be used to boost their income 21:01:59 <andythenorth> now I have been trying to retcon that for about 2 years :P 21:02:37 <JGR> That seems more like the sort of thing that should affect ratings 21:02:49 <JGR> Station ratings, that is 21:03:44 <andythenorth> I considered adding a new pax class 'first class' 21:03:50 <andythenorth> but I think I'd have to do a house set 21:04:40 <JGR> I tried playing ECS once. Having separate passengers and tourists was a bit awkward. 21:05:27 <andythenorth> I think it would be horrible with cdist, balancing consists 21:05:43 <andythenorth> cdist has quite nasty cascades in complex networks 21:05:46 <_dp_> with how iron horse is I don't really see why would anyone use it for any kind of goal game 21:05:57 <andythenorth> increase capacity on one link, another one gets overloaded soon 21:06:01 <_dp_> has a lot of stuff with tons of nice details but 0 gamplay difference 21:06:13 <andythenorth> NUTS for goal games surely? 21:06:24 <_dp_> goal set imo should have few but very distinct trains 21:06:36 <_dp_> nuts is too nuts :p 21:06:42 * andythenorth is surprised 21:06:43 <JGR> Cdist with passengers really requires that the generation rate is reduced a bit 21:07:03 <andythenorth> I am playing with Improved Town Layouts grf, it helps a lot 21:07:09 <andythenorth> by capping building sizes 21:07:15 <_dp_> I did that thing once when I disabled everything but meow trains from nuts and adjusted some stats 21:13:32 <andythenorth> maybe I just level the capacity on the 'luxury' vehicles 21:13:37 <andythenorth> with the 'standard' vehicles 21:13:40 <andythenorth> and the loading speed 21:13:49 <andythenorth> just visual choices 21:14:02 <andythenorth> or delete them, simpler 21:14:35 <JGR> You could make them a livery option? :) 21:15:01 <andythenorth> ooof 21:15:11 <andythenorth> using cargo subtypes? :( 21:16:25 <_dp_> give every third or so "luxury" skin randomly? :) 21:16:45 <andythenorth> they have position->sprite rules already 21:17:06 <andythenorth> 'restaurant' car sprites are faked in if the consist is long enough 21:17:27 <andythenorth> :D 21:18:31 <andythenorth> so...Luxury Pax Coach compared to Pax Coach :D 21:18:33 <andythenorth> costs more 21:18:35 <andythenorth> carries less 21:18:37 <andythenorth> same speed 21:18:42 <andythenorth> higher running cost 21:18:45 <andythenorth> lower loading speed 21:18:46 <andythenorth> GG? 21:18:48 <andythenorth> delete? 21:20:59 <Wuzzy> hey all. i noticed that there are some sounds defined in OpenTTD that are currently unused, like SND_22_CAR_HORN. are the planned to be used at all in future or can i consider those sounds to be "legacy" forever? 21:21:42 <_dp_> andythenorth, I feel like you're following some real-life logic and expect it to have gameplay effect 21:21:51 <_dp_> don't think that'll ever work in openttd :p 21:21:57 <andythenorth> yes 21:22:14 <_dp_> if you want gameplay effect just set whatever stats needed to achieve that however unreallistic they may be 21:22:15 <andythenorth> this is why the arrow is flying towards 'delete' 21:22:57 <Xaroth> andythenorth: perhaps finetune some of the stats.. perhaps not the carrying capacity, but the loading speed? 21:23:03 <Xaroth> that way it might be a viable alternative 21:23:09 <Wuzzy> am I just in everyone's ignore list or why am i always ignored? 🙁 21:23:09 <Xaroth> without making it better by default 21:23:16 <andythenorth> I know that players report they like having a choice between 'luxury' and not 21:23:28 <andythenorth> but they think it actually has a benefit on longer routes 21:24:06 <andythenorth> Wuzzy you have strayed into the common position here 21:24:20 <andythenorth> you are currently the only person on this whole planet interested in OpenTTD sounds 21:24:34 <andythenorth> unless there are others, but not in irc / GitHub (possible) 21:24:45 <Wuzzy> haha 21:24:50 <andythenorth> this happens 21:25:56 <Xaroth> OpenTTD has sounds? 21:26:13 <Wuzzy> ... 21:26:17 <Wuzzy> yes.. 21:26:18 <frosch123> Wuzzy: i checked that. those sounds are not used in ttd. by defintiion they are thus intentionally unused in ottd 21:26:32 <Wuzzy> frosch123: ah thanks 21:26:41 <frosch123> i have some wip diff to rename them in the source 21:26:43 <Wuzzy> so then i can close those issues then 21:26:51 <Wuzzy> oh right 21:27:05 <Wuzzy> yeah, better to add a source comment to avoid future confusion =) 21:27:11 <frosch123> about half of them are mislabeled :p 21:27:24 <Wuzzy> how? they seem correct to me 21:27:26 * andythenorth looks into cargo payment curves 21:27:31 <Wuzzy> except the unused ones 21:27:36 <andythenorth> maybe I can make pax payment decay really aggressive 21:27:54 <Wuzzy> https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Development/SoundIDs 21:28:04 <frosch123> the sounds named "truck" are used by busses. the sounds named "plane crash" are regular toyland planes starting, ... and so on 21:28:25 <Wuzzy> hrm 21:28:35 <Wuzzy> oh you mean in source code? 21:28:50 <_dp_> andythenorth, I can give you profit calc sources if you really want to dive into that xD 21:29:00 <andythenorth> it's here https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Cargos#Penalty_times_and_price_factor_.2810.2C11.2C12.29 21:29:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] Wuzzy2 commented on issue #18: Make sounds for "unused" empty sounds? https://git.io/JtrK4 21:29:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] Wuzzy2 closed issue #18: Make sounds for "unused" empty sounds? https://git.io/JtrK4 21:30:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Wuzzy2 commented on issue #8619: Unused sounds https://git.io/Jt4Mc 21:30:30 <andythenorth> _dp_ I think I tried before, and there is a limit to how steep the decay can be? 21:31:13 <frosch123> Wuzzy: https://github.com/frosch123/OpenTTD/commit/26b0c561e18fbb91e3e43673fd97c5fafe5bf771 <- the comments are correct now, but i need to find nice names for the enum items 21:31:41 <_dp_> andythenorth, I don't remember, haven't looked at cargo payments in a long long while 21:31:59 <andythenorth> I think there's a floor under the initial time period 21:32:37 <andythenorth> the formula breaks my brain :P 21:32:57 <Wuzzy> https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Development/SoundIDs might be a good reference for names, i wrote it myself and i think the names are true 21:33:23 <Wuzzy> i created this page while i was working on sound replacements for OpenSFX 21:33:58 <_dp_> andythenorth, wiki has it better https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/Game%20Mechanics/Cargo%20income 21:34:17 <_dp_> andythenorth, yeah, looks like there isn't much you can do with that curve 21:34:34 <_dp_> basically you can only move the middle point 21:35:19 <_dp_> though mb you can effectively change steepnes with cargo aging 21:35:49 <_dp_> stretch/compress it basically 21:37:23 <andythenorth> for the distances I play, aging doesn't seem to have an effect 21:37:31 <andythenorth> it will vary by speed of vehicles obvs. 21:38:30 <_dp_> yeah, that's possible I guess 21:38:31 * andythenorth wonders if _dp_ has ticks vs vehicle speed vs tiles graph :) 21:38:36 <andythenorth> in the magic graphs ? 21:38:37 <_dp_> hard to tell without profit sim 21:40:16 <andythenorth> I did have a malus set on 'normal' vehicles, but I'm not convinced it did much 21:40:20 <_dp_> andythenorth, these 3 are connected 21:40:28 <_dp_> andythenorth, you know 2 you can calc third 21:40:51 <_dp_> s = v * t :p 21:42:45 <andythenorth> that's why I thought it might have a graph already :) 21:43:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] Wuzzy2 commented on issue #9: Sound cleanup roadmap https://git.io/JtEwS 21:43:10 <andythenorth> I don't know over what distance the cargo aging property becomes effective 21:43:22 <andythenorth> previous tests suggested it was about 64 tiles for say 100mph train 21:43:30 <andythenorth> based on testing in a big savegame 21:43:38 <_dp_> I only have https://citymania.org/tools/profit 21:43:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] Wuzzy2 commented on issue #21: Update translations in 'lang' directory https://git.io/Jtozb 21:43:57 <_dp_> but cargo aging is not implemented and it only have default vehicle and cargo stats 21:44:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] Wuzzy2 commented on issue #10: Change legacy Mercurial code in scripts and README https://git.io/JtErk 21:44:50 <_dp_> it's not that hard to add other stuff, mostly a ui issue 21:45:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] Wuzzy2 commented on issue #2: Relicense OpenSFX under an actual FOSS license https://git.io/JtnIG 21:45:09 <_dp_> but I don't have time to work on it atm 21:45:17 <andythenorth> NP :) 21:45:24 * andythenorth tests cargo age period 0 in current game 21:45:47 <_dp_> I can give you sources if you want to play with it, shouldn't be that hard to get working 21:46:13 <_dp_> cmclient should be able to export stats from the game as well 21:46:24 <andythenorth> Timberwolf snowploughs...station rating bonus :P 21:46:30 <andythenorth> or negative running costs :P 21:52:35 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:54:09 <andythenorth> I think I could keep the malus 21:54:13 <andythenorth> on standard pax coaches 21:54:23 <andythenorth> but I need to normalise it for speed maybe 21:57:03 <andythenorth> hmm 21:57:12 <andythenorth> lol 21:57:35 <andythenorth> it would be much easier to just explain to players 'this vehicle earns a 50% premium per passenger' 21:57:53 <andythenorth> instead of 'this requires routes of about 64 tiles to make any difference, and that also depends on vehicle speed' 22:08:37 <TrueBrain> w00p, already have my first bug-report about the 60fps .. something to check out tomorrow :D 22:08:43 <TrueBrain> forums can be useful :) 22:08:57 <andythenorth> :) 22:09:46 <TrueBrain> just no clue what would cause that, but okay 22:09:53 <TrueBrain> that user did an hilarious experiment btw :P 22:10:33 *** arikover` has joined #openttd 22:21:40 <NGC3982> is it possible to redirect console output on dedicated server to file? 22:22:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened pull request #8700: Change: Recolour windows for consistency https://git.io/JtSt9 22:23:17 <TrueBrain> whats the reason? CONSISTENCY! :D 22:23:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8700: Change: Recolour windows for consistency https://git.io/JtStQ 22:26:44 <_dp_> I only suggested dark bg for graphs... how on earth did it turn into a 2 screen long list of changes? :/ 22:26:55 <TrueBrain> I don't mind :) 22:27:15 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 22:28:44 <JGR> NGC3982, use the "script" console command, or just use normal shell redirection 22:29:18 <NGC3982> i solved it by forking it and using a specifik config file 22:29:34 <andythenorth> so...can we add train property 2E? 22:29:38 <NGC3982> that makes openttd create the game files in config file directory, including openttd.log 22:29:41 <andythenorth> 'cargo payment rate multiplier' 22:30:53 <_dp_> ok, I can already imagine I won't like cream towns :p 22:31:27 <andythenorth> well we can all do some nitpick replies right? 22:31:36 <andythenorth> preferably contradictory ones? :) 22:31:49 <andythenorth> contribs. love that :) 22:32:14 <andythenorth> something like this, if it's net improvement, ship it, iterate 22:32:22 <JGR> Cargodist might be a bit of an issue for a cargo payment rate multiplier. The actual payment only occurs on the final leg. 22:32:39 <andythenorth> I think it's a bad idea 22:33:00 <andythenorth> it's just the most direct way to make a trade between capacity per unit length, and 'some other factor' 22:33:08 <_dp_> andythenorth, would be much easier to discuss as a 4 separate changes :/ 22:33:29 <andythenorth> _dp_ probably, I am potato / potato :) 22:42:11 <andythenorth> ha I think I try running cost lolz for luxury cars 22:42:26 <andythenorth> tie it to load factor 22:42:37 <andythenorth> 0% load, running coast 2x normal pax coach 22:42:52 <andythenorth> 50% load, same running cost as normal pax coach 22:43:04 <andythenorth> 100% load, running cost 0 (due to sale of sandwiches, teacakes and gin) 22:44:56 * andythenorth to skeep 22:45:01 <andythenorth> sleep 22:45:02 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:54:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8698: Add: [Actions] msys2/MinGW CI https://git.io/Jtyp5 22:57:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8700: Change: Recolour windows for consistency https://git.io/JtSmc 22:59:59 *** JGR has quit IRC 23:04:14 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 23:05:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8700: Change: Recolour windows for consistency https://git.io/JtSmg 23:06:13 <glx> I don't understand why it fails https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8698/checks?check_run_id=1939059469#step:6:858 23:06:36 <glx> but the 2 failing lines are similar 23:07:12 <glx> return std::min<uint>(IndustryPool::MAX_SIZE, ScaleByMapSize(numof_industry_table[difficulty])); 23:07:12 <glx> total = std::min<uint>(TownPool::MAX_SIZE, total); 23:07:31 <glx> both use std::min 23:14:00 <NGC3982> openttd -D -c ~/openttd-1/openttd-1.cfg -f -x 23:14:03 <NGC3982> that's neat 23:18:34 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 23:22:09 <glx> ok adding some casts and it works, it's weird 23:25:03 <LordAro> glx: something to do with inlining and mismatched types, from when i did the conversion to std::min 23:25:21 <LordAro> the templated function means that types must be of the same signedness 23:26:05 <glx> size_t should work (in 32bit it's uint anyway) 23:27:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8698: Add: [Actions] msys2/MinGW CI https://git.io/Jtyp5 23:29:11 <LordAro> mm 23:29:38 <glx> compiler probably does weird things 23:35:34 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 23:41:39 <glx> if I use a temp auto var for ::MAX_SIZE and use the var in std::min it compiles fine too 23:41:50 <glx> I blame the compiler :) 23:48:11 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:50:19 *** gelignite has quit IRC 23:58:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8698: Add: [Actions] msys2/MinGW CI https://git.io/JtS3R