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00:20:05 *** Progman has quit IRC 00:23:16 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 00:23:34 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 00:41:04 *** gelignite has quit IRC 00:54:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 01:18:53 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:20:19 *** spnda has quit IRC 01:32:24 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 01:33:11 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 01:36:19 *** Rainy has quit IRC 01:53:48 *** gregdek has quit IRC 01:54:39 *** reldred has quit IRC 01:56:02 *** gregdek has joined #openttd 01:56:14 *** reldred has joined #openttd 02:15:12 *** glx_ has joined #openttd 02:15:12 *** glx is now known as Guest576 02:15:12 *** glx_ is now known as glx 02:21:38 *** Guest576 has quit IRC 02:23:21 *** glx has quit IRC 02:41:02 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 02:41:16 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 02:53:53 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 02:54:39 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 02:57:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Andrew350 commented on issue #8942: OBS Studio Game Capture crash https://git.io/JYD61 03:27:33 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 03:27:56 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 04:37:27 *** Wuzzy has quit IRC 05:47:31 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 05:59:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kneekoo commented on pull request #8936: Add: Plural support for Romanian translations https://git.io/JY9iQ 06:07:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kneekoo commented on pull request #8936: Add: Plural support for Romanian translations https://git.io/JY9Xf 06:15:13 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:35:25 *** Zuu has joined #openttd 07:23:32 *** heffer has quit IRC 07:23:45 *** heffer has joined #openttd 07:29:32 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 07:34:29 *** supermop_Home has quit IRC 07:37:53 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:47:47 <andythenorth> yo 07:54:27 <peter1138> no 07:54:33 <peter1138> Why am I up so late? 07:55:15 <andythenorth> yes 07:55:18 <andythenorth> that 07:55:26 *** Progman has joined #openttd 07:58:11 <peter1138> Ah, OzTrans is also a WinXP user... 08:04:23 <andythenorth> we used to have hold-out customers on IE6 08:04:39 <andythenorth> I seriously considered buying them £300 laptops to replace their government-issued ones 08:05:03 <andythenorth> would have been a lot cheaper overall than supporting IE 6 was 08:07:48 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:09:18 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: you think we can include zstd support in 1.11.1 too? Well, PR still hasn't been reviewed .... but maybe this poke helps someone to do just that :P 08:10:09 <TrueBrain> lol @ WinXP .. tempted to reply: it would be wildly irresponsible for us to support such an old system :P 08:10:33 <TrueBrain> I am seriously worried that people still use it .. scary 08:11:09 <LordAro> what was the reason we dropped it? was it just that the CI/VS didn't support it? 08:12:12 <_dp_> interestingly my first zstd tests on citymania didn't go as well as in the theory 08:12:39 <_dp_> didn't have time to investigate but somehow zstd does 2-3x savegame size 08:12:59 <_dp_> and dowload speed seems to be limited by something else than just connection speed 08:13:08 <_dp_> I blame trees :p 08:13:57 <LordAro> 2-3x savegame size was expected, no? 08:14:39 <andythenorth> I blame trees 08:15:08 <andythenorth> we can't replace trees with something else because savegame? 08:15:22 <TrueBrain> replace trees with hot air balloons? 08:15:33 <_dp_> LordAro, no, it was 120-145% in tests compared to lzma:2 and on citymania i got 4.5MB vs 1.21 08:16:32 <peter1138> andythenorth, I logged into a government website the other day which did not work in Firefox, Edge or Chrome. It did work in IE11, though. 08:16:43 <TrueBrain> and you had IE11 ? 08:16:43 <andythenorth> peter1138 tax dollars at work 08:16:44 <TrueBrain> :o 08:16:49 <andythenorth> replace trees with pre-generated tree combinations 08:16:55 <LordAro> peter1138: not a gov.uk site, i hope? 08:16:58 <andythenorth> 128 would be plenty :P 08:17:06 <_dp_> btw, if anyone wants to try it you can patch available formats in cmclient and join citymania, it will use zstd if forced to 08:17:18 <_dp_> I won't be able to do anything this week unfortunately 08:17:41 <LordAro> didn't factorio post something about optimising a similar tree problem? perhaps could copy them 08:17:41 <peter1138> andythenorth, yes. 08:18:19 <peter1138> TrueBrain, it's still there in my Windows 10 install. 08:18:23 <andythenorth> I did the maths once on how many combinations we could get for 3 trees per tile 08:18:25 <TrueBrain> peter1138: :o 08:18:30 <andythenorth> I dunno where I put it 08:18:41 <_dp_> but so far I'm using this order for compressions: "lzma:0 zlib:2 lzo:0 zstd:1" 08:18:57 <peter1138> buried under defra.gov.uk 08:20:30 <andythenorth> how much tree storage is there currently? 08:21:21 <andythenorth> counter and stuff 08:21:49 <TrueBrain> I am mostly curious what the "tree problem" is :P 08:22:04 <TrueBrain> it seems there is some consensus about it, but .. what is the problem? :D 08:22:15 <peter1138> Apparently trees are not very compressable, it's almost random data. 08:22:31 <_dp_> ^^ 08:22:33 <andythenorth> allegedly it (1) bloats savegame size (2) may contribute to map gen time (3) not very newgrf-able 08:22:44 <TrueBrain> I would guess none of the _m data is compressable really, as most is "random" (from the perspective of the compression) 08:23:02 <TrueBrain> we use bits for everything :P 08:23:05 <peter1138> I think the rest of it largely follows patterns, though. 08:23:09 <_dp_> in lzma:2 about 3/4 of savegame size is due to trees 08:23:18 <andythenorth> discussions here about (3) tend to end up talking about (1) and (2) due to interests of participants here 08:23:27 <andythenorth> i.e. it's more interesting to talk about map and compression than grf 08:23:29 <andythenorth> :P 08:23:58 <TrueBrain> I also wonder about 2) .. as mapgen does tileloop on every tile; are tiles with trees slower to tileloop? 08:24:23 <TrueBrain> or is placing the part that is slow? :D 08:24:26 <TrueBrain> so many questions .. sorry :P 08:24:47 <andythenorth> :) https://www.duperrin.com/english/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/deming_in_god_we_trust.png 08:24:52 <peter1138> Just placing, and I don't think it's slow, it's just slower than not doing it, logically. 08:24:58 <_dp_> well, they do something so should be slower but not significantly 08:25:00 <TrueBrain> peter1138: :D 08:25:18 <_dp_> also if they're allowed to spread they do some neighbor checks 08:25:32 <peter1138> Generating industries contributes to map gen time. It's not exactly a problem. Until using ECS :D 08:25:42 <TrueBrain> or 4kx4k :P 08:25:46 <andythenorth> newgrf trees would allow cool stuff like slope-sensitivity or forests vs small woods without patching core game 08:25:49 <TrueBrain> rivers are horribly slow in mapgen too :P 08:25:59 <andythenorth> could we stop at "rivers are horrible"? 08:26:13 * andythenorth not pissing on anyone there, I helped do rivers 08:26:31 <andythenorth> took fricking ages relative to quality of result 08:26:40 <peter1138> Every time I tried making map gen more interesting I gave up because a generalised perlin noise is actually quite a bit slower. 08:26:43 <peter1138> Maybe thread it :D 08:26:56 <andythenorth> "just use small maps" :D 08:26:58 <TrueBrain> that is now possible :P 08:26:59 <andythenorth> oof unhelpful 08:27:01 <peter1138> That too. 08:27:15 <TrueBrain> and in general, people don't seem to mind slow mapgen (when looking at other games), just the lack of preview is annoying 08:27:20 <TrueBrain> as it might mean you need to generate a few new maps 08:27:23 <andythenorth> I tried generating 4k x 4k to test mac performance to answer a forum question, it's SOOOOOOO slow 08:27:34 <andythenorth> generally 512x512 is near instant 08:27:52 <TrueBrain> and if TGP was a decent perlin noise, you could just show a low-res preview 08:27:54 <_dp_> fft noise seems quite fast 08:27:55 <TrueBrain> alas, it is not :P 08:28:31 * andythenorth plays Arctic map 08:28:33 <andythenorth> nice map gen 08:28:48 <TrueBrain> peter1138: honestly, we could cheat by embedding a hard-coded noise table, which is shifted around by randomness 08:28:51 <TrueBrain> should be very quick :D 08:28:55 <TrueBrain> (just takes more disk-space) 08:29:15 <peter1138> Reticulating Splines 08:29:41 <andythenorth> fetch the noise from bananas as content :P 08:29:52 <TrueBrain> 4k by 4k is at least a 16M noise sprite :P 08:30:11 <TrueBrain> diskspace is cheap 08:30:22 <_dp_> https://pastebin.com/QvFrG7Hv 08:30:30 <_dp_> didn't benchmark it much though 08:30:38 <peter1138> Random-As-A-Service 08:30:48 <peter1138> Or XKCD method. -4. 08:31:02 <TrueBrain> "return 4; // Fair dice roll" 08:31:03 <peter1138> Uh, return 4; 08:31:10 <peter1138> Dunno where the - came from 08:33:37 <peter1138> Heh, IE11's "About Internet Explorer" actually just gives you an old-school About Window... for Windows 10. 08:40:13 <peter1138> milek7, XP-build maintainer for life, sorry you did this to yourself... 08:51:17 <_dp_> ahaha, content select all claims its first victim: https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/mk6kp1/how_can_i_install_custom_grfs_and_scripts_on/ 08:52:13 <TrueBrain> reminds me how you used to do Minecraft Servers .. start local client, download modpack, zip the whole folder, copy to server, run server 08:52:19 <TrueBrain> people got so lazy with OpenTTD :) 08:56:25 <andythenorth> shallI just write a circular tile search in grf to prevent these? :D https://gist.github.com/andythenorth/311126e1d2cb2ad3c31bc86bc02a26d4#gistcomment-3693352 08:56:36 <andythenorth> they are stoopid and frequent :) 08:56:54 <andythenorth> I can code generate some horrible tile check that will be really slow and have errors in 08:58:29 <TrueBrain> https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/f5685dc0fdbd012aac48ea2a36158198 <- I wrote some words on how we can have a Steam-like multiplayer experience in OpenTTD without using Steam 08:59:09 <TrueBrain> it is not difficult if we use relay-network + lobby system .. just possibly a bit expensive for us 08:59:33 <TrueBrain> orudge: AWS budget warning triggered, current estimate is 70 dollar more than last month. How are the donations going? :D 09:00:57 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 09:06:51 *** JGR has joined #openttd 09:12:51 *** Zuu_ has joined #openttd 09:14:25 *** Samu has joined #openttd 09:19:08 *** Zuu has quit IRC 09:20:39 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 09:31:38 <andythenorth> hmm 09:32:09 <andythenorth> far as I can see, when using transfers, cargo packet age isn't reset for each leg of a journey? 09:32:58 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 09:45:19 <nielsm> yes that's intentional 09:46:28 <nielsm> the income for the transport is calculated by direct distance from source to destination, not as distance traveled 09:46:51 <nielsm> so you also need to consider how long the total trip was, not each individual leg 09:50:48 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: transfer credit is a lie. the only thing that matters is the age and distance for the complete journey 09:51:01 <andythenorth> ok 09:51:18 <andythenorth> so the current strategy is to massively nerf 'local' vehicles like metro 09:51:43 <andythenorth> by reducing the cargo aging period horribly 09:52:03 <andythenorth> so with cdist, on a 3-leg route between 2 big cities 09:52:11 <andythenorth> i.e. metro -> intercity train -> metro 09:52:22 <andythenorth> what's gonna happen by the time the passengers are on the intercity train? 09:54:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8934: Change: NewGRF window apply button to disable if changes not made https://git.io/JYH3j 09:55:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ghisvail commented on pull request #8948: Fix: Honor default soundfont for FluidSynth on Debian https://git.io/JYHsJ 09:55:32 * andythenorth thinks that the pax will already be aged 09:56:05 <nielsm> yes 09:56:15 <andythenorth> so cargo aging differences between different types of intercity trains will have no effect 09:56:40 <andythenorth> 'complex systems are fun' 09:57:13 <nielsm> cdist doesn't have a good solution for it, since cargo doesn't have destinations, so there are no plans for the total route 09:57:14 <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly do you mean? example: "local" has an aging speed of 4 per day, and "intercity" 1 per day. the trip takes 2 days local, 10 days long distance, and 3 days local. total trip time is 15 days, total cargo age will be 2*4+10*1+3*4 = 30 09:57:54 <Eddi|zuHause> effectively, the cargo is treated as having travelled twice as long 09:58:15 <andythenorth> where's the floor under aging take effect? 09:58:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that sentence does not parse 09:59:12 <andythenorth> cargo has a maximum age 09:59:19 <andythenorth> for the payment algorithm 09:59:29 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: I was way ahead of you :P :P 09:59:47 <TrueBrain> by some seconds ... :D 09:59:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, not sure. probably something in the order of 2 years travel time 10:00:00 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause context might help, I think Iron Horse breaks cdist networks 10:00:02 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: Double comment replies now. 10:00:03 <andythenorth> for payment 10:00:20 <TrueBrain> lovely aint it :D 10:00:24 <JGR> Days in transit is capped at 255, as it is stored in a byte 10:00:31 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: All cgNATs I know are not symmetrical as otherwise you wouldn't save public IPs. 10:00:32 <TrueBrain> anyway, us needing TCP for STUN is the biggest drawback 10:00:33 <peter1138> Hmm, if JGRPP has better map gen, can we borrow it? 10:00:44 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: hmm, the ones I know are :P Funny :D 10:00:49 <Eddi|zuHause> JGR: so 255*2.5 days 10:00:51 <TrueBrain> why wouldn't it save public IPs? 10:01:10 <nielsm> TrueBrain stop using TCP, switch to UDP, support classic NAT punching 10:01:12 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 255*2.5/365 10:01:12 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 1.7465753424657535 10:01:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 10:01:19 <Eddi|zuHause> 1.7 years 10:01:28 <TrueBrain> isn't symmetrical only assigning an unique (ip, port) pair? 10:01:34 <TrueBrain> nielsm: I await your PR for that :D 10:02:44 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: Hmm, it seems that term is absolutely not properly defined and various sources mean different things. 10:02:52 <TrueBrain> :( 10:02:57 <TrueBrain> I am not surprised :P 10:03:18 <JGR> peter1138, might be worth be worth liaising with reldred. He's added all the recent mapgen related stuff in my branch. 10:03:41 <reldred> What did I do? 10:03:54 <FLHerne> added all the recent mapgen stuff in his branch, apparently 10:04:02 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: "ridiculously" lowering the aging period means you reach the cap earlier 10:04:07 <andythenorth> yes 10:04:15 <andythenorth> the cap is 31? 10:04:19 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Cargos#Penalty_times_and_price_factor_.2810.2C11.2C12.29 10:04:42 <andythenorth> Horse ages metro cargo every 32 ticks 10:05:01 <Eddi|zuHause> default is 185 ticks 10:05:12 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 185/32 10:05:12 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 5.78125 10:05:14 <andythenorth> yes 10:05:20 <Eddi|zuHause> so roughly 6 times faster 10:05:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain opened pull request #47: Add: translate Discussion events into IRC messages https://git.io/JYHGz 10:05:45 <andythenorth> but still 3 months 10:06:08 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 255*2.5*32/185/365 10:06:08 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.3021103295075898 10:06:28 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 255*2.5*32/185/365*12 10:06:32 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 3.625323954091078 10:06:43 <Eddi|zuHause> 3 months is... short 10:06:59 <michi_cc> From googling around, UPD hole punching in generall seems simpler than TCP hole punching, simply because NAT gateways can't really do connection tracking with UDP. 10:07:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 10:07:24 <TrueBrain> there is nothing to track :P 10:07:32 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 10:07:34 <TrueBrain> in AWS if an UDP stream goes silent for 60 seconds, it is terminated 10:07:37 <TrueBrain> which was fun to find out :D 10:07:42 * andythenorth considering removing all use of cargo aging 10:07:51 <andythenorth> either by setting it all to 185 10:07:55 <andythenorth> or setting it all to 0 10:08:18 <FLHerne> reldred: Anyway, the original question was "does JGRPP have better map generation, and can it be pulled upstream?" 10:08:32 <TrueBrain> nginx does similar things, to track UDP streams 10:08:36 <TrueBrain> just timeouts .. 10:08:47 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think the original idea was to allow making the aging period longer 10:08:56 <TrueBrain> (and yes, I had to relay UDP through AWS for the master-server .. was ... enjoyable :D) 10:08:58 <andythenorth> plausible 10:09:07 <andythenorth> some kind of balancing for large maps 10:09:19 <andythenorth> could have been done differently, but eh 10:09:29 <reldred> FLHerne: it’s not that different to what Truebrain has done for 1.11, I just allowed a few things normally tied up in fixed values to new settings 10:09:49 <andythenorth> setting cargo aging to 0 is just too weird, and breaks too much else in the game? 10:11:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that even works 10:11:19 <michi_cc> There are various libs for emulating TCP over UDP, most notably QUIC :) 10:11:29 <TrueBrain> yeah 10:11:35 <TrueBrain> the Steam relay system is also fully UDP 10:11:39 <TrueBrain> and has a "TCP-like" mode 10:11:43 <TrueBrain> they did a really nice job 10:12:02 <reldred> FLHerne, peter1138 there were four main patches I contributed to JGRPP; 1st: Rainforest height line, now made redundant by Truebrain's work on 1.11 terrain gen. 2nd: Town zone generation customization. Basically there's a fixed table up used to determine the size of zones up until there's 92 houses, then it's a flat calculation, I just broke that out so you can control it with fixed numbers. 10:13:50 <reldred> FLHerne, peter1138, 3rd: River settings; basically just allowed tweaking a few things, min length of rivers, lake probability, lakes allowed in desert, tropic band surrounding rivers in desert, and lastly this one weird condition that required rivers to generate around the tops of hills (within 2'ish tiles) which combined with another condition that requires rivers to also neighbor a higher tile result in not many generating 10:14:07 <orudge> TrueBrain: that won't be a problem I think! Donations are higher certainly just now (not extravagently so, but will cover the extra usage I'm sure) 10:14:23 <TrueBrain> :D 10:14:28 <reldred> FLHerne, peter1138, and the last patch I submitted was controlling rock density. Flat number for size, or scale size/density by height. 10:15:12 <reldred> Really all the stuff I did was super low hanging fruit because I'm not a C++ programmer. Just had time to burn. JGR fixed all my screwups with saves, fixed some bugs in the settings menu, etc. 10:15:14 <peter1138> Hmm 10:15:31 <reldred> It's Yet More Settings, which not everyone likes 10:16:16 <reldred> But I happen to like it, and I made it, and JGR accepted my rubbish PR's so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 10:16:17 <andythenorth> Timberwolf I edited some notes in here, seem reasonable? https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Vehicles/Trains#Custom_cargo_ageing_period_.282B.29 10:16:20 <peter1138> And I still want to replace "variety" with something that works a lot better. 10:16:55 <reldred> Yeah, I was looking at poking around in TGP but then TrueBrain just coughed up his PR and I basically breathed a sigh of relief. 10:17:18 <andythenorth> variety does kinda work, I just used it in map gen, got what I expected 10:17:31 <reldred> I do want to take a look at Improved Trees though, I think some simple number tweaks could really make it shine. 10:17:44 <andythenorth> it does make weird squares at certain map settings 10:17:57 <reldred> Yeah, it's really prevalent on Tropic 10:18:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8944: Fix #8935: [OSX] Crash when clicking 'Save' due to wrongly-threaded OS call. https://git.io/JYycG 10:18:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc closed issue #8935: Crash on save on macOS https://git.io/JYXtv 10:18:55 <andythenorth> \o/ 10:19:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8945: Fix: Apply master effect volume during mixing instead of sound start. https://git.io/JYyVO 10:26:11 <reldred> But anyway, yeah, I'm happy to backport my patches to OpenTTD trunk just don't expect miracles. I don't necessarily have a clue what I'm doing. 10:26:23 <reldred> (: 11:13:13 <TrueBrain> "It's apparent that you have used Ad-words marketing to promote your business in the past" <- say what now? We did what? When? Stupid scam mails to info@ 11:14:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8845: Feature: zstandard compression for network games https://git.io/JYHRe 11:14:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8845: Feature: zstandard compression for network games https://git.io/JYHRU 11:14:50 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: Are they also trying to sell you quadcopters in bulk? 11:14:59 <FLHerne> I've been getting some pretty odd spam recently 11:15:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8845: Feature: zstandard compression for network games https://git.io/JYHRG 11:16:48 <peter1138> Plugged a USB keyboard in. Windows 10. Please reboot. 11:16:52 <peter1138> Really, no. 11:20:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8845: Feature: zstandard compression for network games https://git.io/JYHRx 11:20:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8845: Feature: zstandard compression for network games https://git.io/JqnwH 11:21:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8845: Feature: zstandard compression for network games https://git.io/JYH03 11:33:09 *** Zuu_ has quit IRC 11:38:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #8950: Make effect volume slider non-linear https://git.io/JYHuH 11:46:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #8951: Fix graphical issues with dragging measurement tooltips in the viewport https://git.io/JYHzN 11:47:15 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 11:49:39 <nielsm> I smashes "backport requested" on a bunch more PRs 11:49:54 <nielsm> someone else should go them over and check everything looks reasonable 11:50:27 *** JGR has quit IRC 11:51:37 <peter1138> I noticed 11:54:52 <TrueBrain> https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/8db906d93071fd6d953a00596a66a172 <- wrote more words, this time for "lobbies" :P 12:00:41 * andythenorth reads 12:01:49 <andythenorth> idea seems cool, implementation I am the wrong person to comment 12:02:19 <TrueBrain> implementation is simple :P 12:05:03 <milek7> what's the problem with TCP? 12:05:41 <nielsm> very difficult to connect two machines behind each their own NAT directly via TCP 12:12:42 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 12:13:25 <peter1138> Who doesn't have their own IP address space anyway?> 12:17:42 <nielsm> ugh... during an interactive rebase, is there a way to go one step back... I put two commits in the wrong order 12:17:54 <nielsm> if I just swap them it will work 12:20:10 <peter1138> Don't think so, I think you'll need to restart 12:20:31 <peter1138> Maybe with git reflog but easy to go wrong. 12:23:58 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 12:29:08 <TrueBrain> nielsm: git rebase --abort :P 12:29:20 <TrueBrain> the only way I know .. 12:31:13 <LordAro> complete rebase & swap them back again? 12:32:51 <nielsm> it was a situation of converting checkpoint commits into fixups, and putting two in wrong order so both would cause huge conflicts 12:33:17 <nielsm> and the entire thing was 50 commits long so aborting would be hell too 12:33:33 <nielsm> I ended up just eating the conflicts and resolving them in the stupidest way possible 12:33:44 <nielsm> since they'd get fixup'd later again anyway 12:34:33 <peter1138> eh 12:34:37 <peter1138> ... Heh 12:36:41 <nielsm> argh who ordered SNOW IN APRIL 12:40:43 *** EER has joined #openttd 12:40:47 *** jellyknight has joined #openttd 12:40:57 *** glx has joined #openttd 12:40:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 12:41:52 <EER> Hi all, taking a bit of a look at bananas-api today and while trying to get up and running with docker I noticed that --cdn_url is mandatory and not passed in the Dockerfile. 12:42:46 <EER> So either I'll add a default value to the dockerfile and improve the error message when it's not specified, or I can try and make it not mandatory? 12:43:03 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 12:43:25 <EER> My python is not great (I'm experimenting) so I've gone for the default value for now so I can get it up and running at least :) 12:47:28 *** gelignite has quit IRC 12:52:14 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 12:55:17 <andythenorth> hmm Horse time 12:55:25 <andythenorth> so delete the luxury pax cars? 12:57:18 <andythenorth> they have lower capacity than standard pax cars 12:58:25 <TrueBrain> EER: when starting the docker, you can add arguments; so adding it works for now 12:58:41 <TrueBrain> I will check why it is not there / why it is mandatory soon. Can't remember which is the correct approach :) 12:59:33 <TrueBrain> owh, you already have it running, sorry, missed that part 12:59:34 <TrueBrain> great ;) 13:00:14 *** supermop_Home_ has joined #openttd 13:00:16 <supermop_Home_> yo 13:00:21 <peter1138> andythenorth, "for aesthetics only" 13:01:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7786: Add: Help and manuals window https://git.io/JeBQt 13:01:20 <nielsm> but isn't horse meant to only have actually useful things? 13:01:21 <EER> TrueBrain, thanks, yup got it to run at least, I remember also seeing some example basic bananas repository somewhere to help developers get set up easier, but can't seem to find it? 13:01:39 <EER> I cloned the existing Bananas repo, which was clearly a mistake :') 13:01:41 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/bananas-server/issues/44 13:01:44 <TrueBrain> there you go :) 13:01:47 <EER> thx! 13:01:55 <TrueBrain> for the API, cloning the BaNaNaS repo is fine :) 13:02:02 <TrueBrain> only for bananas-server that is a bit of a problem 13:02:25 <andythenorth> peter1138 I could just rename them to something else 13:02:30 <andythenorth> 'alternative pax cars' 13:02:33 <andythenorth> and level the capacity 13:02:48 <andythenorth> I did that maybe 100 times already for freight wagons :P 13:02:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7786: Add: Help and manuals window https://git.io/JeBQt 13:02:53 <reldred> why rename them? 13:03:20 <andythenorth> because 'luxury' implies they do something 13:03:22 <andythenorth> for gameplay 13:03:52 <reldred> I mean, I honestly don't see any problem with how they're working now. 13:04:06 <EER> Got it, now to start tinkering :) 13:05:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7786: Add: Help and manuals window https://git.io/JYHM0 13:05:43 <peter1138> What reldred said. 13:06:54 <andythenorth> reldred why would you use them at all? 13:07:02 <andythenorth> they make no sense 13:07:29 <peter1138> Lots of this game doesn't make sense. 13:08:05 <reldred> Eh, I dunno there seems to be cases in some of the maps I play where they end up being more/less profitable for certain routes. 13:09:15 <reldred> Same as restaurant cars, I never really had a problem with how you implemented them. 13:09:41 <reldred> There were edge cases where they seemed to make money, there were other cases where they caused trains to bleed money. 13:10:08 <andythenorth> 'game' 13:10:28 <andythenorth> did you try and work out why they were profitable? 13:10:28 <reldred> I dunno man, you seem very hard on yourself sometimes, that if you're ideas aren't 100% perfect all the time you have to purge them from ever existing. 13:10:47 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Players do all kinds of weird superstitious things because they're "better" according to some private hunch 13:11:07 <FLHerne> No-one cares whether it actually helps, because who cares, it's fun 13:11:19 <reldred> Exactly, it's fun. 13:11:27 * andythenorth playing a different game TBH 13:11:48 <andythenorth> I've been playing against the newgrf spec for 10 years 13:11:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7786: Add: Help and manuals window https://git.io/JYHDy 13:11:58 <andythenorth> the game is beating the spec 13:12:22 <reldred> I mean, that's the thing, this game is a lot of different things to a lot of different people 13:16:15 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: You could get most of your wish list with something like https://heroiclabs.com :D 13:16:37 <andythenorth> I could rename them 'crap pax cars' :) 13:16:42 <andythenorth> as they are much much worse on every measure 13:16:49 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: just cheaper :P 13:19:29 <michi_cc> It's open source and you can self-host as far as I know. 13:19:43 <TrueBrain> I clicked Pricing 13:19:45 <TrueBrain> told me another story :D 13:20:14 <michi_cc> Click https://heroiclabs.com/nakama-opensource/ then, not the Entperise option :) 13:20:16 <TrueBrain> one doesn't rule out the other btw :P 13:21:25 <michi_cc> Quite a bit of the Steam networking code is also fully open source: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/GameNetworkingSockets/ 13:21:35 <TrueBrain> funny how they do not mention the open source option on Pricing 13:21:36 <TrueBrain> bit weird 13:21:42 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: see the gist :P Already in there :D 13:22:01 <michi_cc> Well, pricing seems to be for cloud hosting, not self-hosting. 13:23:26 <TrueBrain> you would think you also say on top: Free if you self-host! 13:23:33 <TrueBrain> but this might be the better way to make a buck more :) 13:23:35 <TrueBrain> (which is fine) 13:24:01 <TrueBrain> in general I have a hard time reading these websites 13:24:03 <TrueBrain> lot of white 13:24:05 <TrueBrain> little information 13:24:16 <TrueBrain> just small pieces of information you ahve to glue together :D 13:24:22 <andythenorth> can we expose the cargo payment props (10, 11, 12) to vehicle newgrf, as global vars? 13:24:47 * andythenorth considering reimplementing the payment algorithm per vehicle, and using it to adjust running costs 13:24:48 <TrueBrain> but yeah, michi_cc , I will check it out 13:24:52 <TrueBrain> if someone already wrote all the stuff for us 13:24:55 <TrueBrain> why bother doing it again :P 13:25:04 <TrueBrain> do you have experience with this product, or how did you find it? 13:25:49 <andythenorth> I don't really want to copy the pax payment rates for all industry grfs into Iron Horse 13:25:55 <andythenorth> seems a bit overkill 13:26:46 <Eddi|zuHause> you should probably back out like 3 levels and rethink your original problem 13:27:15 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: I know that Paradox uses it for at least some of their games (probably the Enterprise version :) 13:27:40 <TrueBrain> I am still not much wiser what it does exactly .. docs are not .. browse-friendly 13:27:59 <TrueBrain> seems to be HTTPS based 13:28:05 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause I think it's simple, if I can just get the payment rates, and a var for days since cargo was loaded, and the current age of the loaded cargo 13:28:20 <andythenorth> I can adjust the run costs of pax car vs. luxury pax car 13:28:28 <michi_cc> Initially they just used Steam I believe, but as soon as you start adding other platforms/consoles into the mix, Steam alone doesn't cut it anymore. 13:28:30 <andythenorth> so they both earn the same for the same trip 13:28:42 <andythenorth> despite having different capacity 13:28:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds wrong on so many levels 13:29:06 <andythenorth> I might need to be able to calculate run cost on every tick or so also 13:29:10 <andythenorth> cumulatively 13:29:24 <andythenorth> we don't have perm. storage on vehicles, I might need that 13:29:35 <andythenorth> no it's probably not needed actually 13:30:16 * andythenorth wonders how much this will break with daylength 13:30:23 <andythenorth> I might need to know the daylength factor also 13:30:25 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: it seems to be a bit overkill for our needs :P 13:30:53 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 13:30:54 <michi_cc> Probably :) 13:31:47 <TrueBrain> the thing I try to avoid, is us having our own accounting system, honestly :P 13:31:49 <milek7> there's also possiblity of using webrtc library 13:31:51 <milek7> then it would have emscripten build interop :D 13:33:28 <TrueBrain> and what I like about "join-keys", is that it works with all Rich Presence systems too 13:33:34 <TrueBrain> you just have to automatically exchange it 13:33:37 <TrueBrain> and someone can join your server 13:33:43 <TrueBrain> via what-ever network connected method is available 13:34:06 <TrueBrain> giving the master-server a coordination role 13:34:21 <frosch123> the other day someone wrote here, that discord api is MIT licensed, but i cannot back that up with facts 13:34:53 <TrueBrain> the new one is not 13:34:55 <TrueBrain> their old one is 13:35:09 <TrueBrain> I "found" this the other day: https://github.com/past-due/discord-rpc 13:35:25 <TrueBrain> contains several fixes for memleaks etc 13:35:30 <TrueBrain> against their old MIT licensed SDK 13:37:29 <frosch123> ok, but that API does not include the networking/relay part, right? 13:37:47 <TrueBrain> no, and that part of Discord is currently not "available" to us 13:38:00 <TrueBrain> for over a year now Discord doesn't accept new games 13:38:03 <TrueBrain> haven't read up on how/why 13:39:01 <nielsm> I actually have a registration of OpenTTD as a game... I think unless they deleted it for inactivity 13:39:01 <peter1138> I'm not even sure what that refers to, "commerce"? 13:39:16 <nielsm> on discord 13:39:43 <frosch123> so we have to wait until ms buys discord, and see what happens next :p 13:41:59 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/-cSC.png 13:43:30 <nielsm> TrueBrain: I invited you to the OpenTTD team on discord developer stuff 13:44:00 <TrueBrain> I saw the mail, will check in a bit :) 13:44:03 <TrueBrain> now first, DOTA!!!!! :D 13:49:59 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: I think that might be a little too cynical. 13:50:39 <andythenorth> if you can think of improvement...I won't start an edit war :) 13:51:43 <Timberwolf> I think the caution I'd go for is, "this has the effect of scaling the cargo payment decay graph in the horizontal axis, and may not necessarily result in more (or less) being earnt for certain combinations of cargo, route length, vehicle speed and other contributory factors such as transfer credits." 13:51:55 <Timberwolf> Or something along those lines. 13:51:55 <EER> I'm trying to get the bananas-cli to connect to my local server, but I think something is wrong with my authentication. First I got the error that audience was not one of "developer", the audience in CLI is hardcoded to be github in the url, so I updated that to say developer, next I am getting a html response where the CLI expects json. Maybe this is not the intended interface for testing? 13:51:55 <EER> :) 13:53:52 <EER> At least I'm learning a lot of Python today ;-) 13:55:08 <andythenorth> cargo aging - another case of apparently-true-but-misleading information in forums with a long tailwind 13:55:09 <andythenorth> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1099612#p1099612 13:55:20 <andythenorth> the days I've wasted on that crap :D 13:57:45 <TrueBrain> EER: I am guessing you are trying the dart version of bananas-cli, not bananas-frontend-cli we provide? 13:57:58 <TrueBrain> anyway, if you want to do local authentication based on GitHub, you need to register your own app at GitHub 13:58:06 <supermop_Home_> andythenorth just play goldeneye 13:58:12 <supermop_Home_> perfect game 13:58:20 <TrueBrain> I have no clue what you are trying btw, I am just reading snippets :D 13:58:25 <TrueBrain> but you can use staging we provide fine for testing 13:59:06 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ warcraft 1 orcs and humans 13:59:15 <andythenorth> perfect game 13:59:38 <peter1138> Is it too cold for cycling: 1) yes, 2) also yes 13:59:45 <andythenorth> yes 13:59:53 <andythenorth> do some lat stretches or something 14:00:12 * andythenorth failed at lunch, and is eating cornflakes 14:00:16 <supermop_Home_> c&c modem game? 14:00:27 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ Doom coop? 14:00:58 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 14:01:38 <peter1138> I "made" some bread, so lunch was ok 14:01:48 <andythenorth> hmm 14:01:50 <andythenorth> sounds...nice 14:01:54 * andythenorth somewhat jealous 14:02:20 <EER> TrueBrain: I tried using the web version, and found I had to do github registration, which I couldn't be bothered about at first, so then tried the CLI tool to list packages instead, which gives me the above 14:02:33 <andythenorth> oh DB Set beats the newgrf spec by setting 1st class pax cars to higher capacity than 2nd class 14:02:52 <EER> I'd like to pick up one of the beginner issues in bananas_server, but first trying to set up a working environment so I know what I am looking at :) 14:03:21 <EER> so right now the status is "get it up and running and solve any problems I find on the way there" 14:05:57 <TrueBrain> if you want to developer for the server, don't bother with github, basically :) 14:06:04 <TrueBrain> just set the authentication method to "developer" 14:06:08 <TrueBrain> much easier to deal with :D 14:06:29 <EER> Do I do that on the API side? 14:06:34 <TrueBrain> yup 14:06:39 <EER> I think that's already the case 14:07:14 <EER> Basically getting this from the bananas-frontend-cli: aiohttp.client_exceptions.ContentTypeError: 0, message='Attempt to decode JSON with unexpected mimetype: text/html', url=URL('http://172.17.0.2/user/authorize?audience=developer&redirect_uri=http://localhost:3977/&response_type=code&client_id=developer&code_challenge=6YaxgPq6VJwAdOL6Fu4F6_ZJRY-3lvmXN0tcod2Jehw&code_challenge_method=S256') 14:07:40 <EER> I had to manually patch the cli code to ask for developer audience, which leads me to believe this is not really the way to go? 14:08:28 <EER> I think the server should return a 302 with a redirect to that url, instead of printing html output 14:08:40 <EER> (based on how the cli handles the http response) 14:09:33 <EER> (note that while I'm plenty familiar with programming and HTTP, I have almost no experience with python, but hey I know that it cares about spaces and what more do you need really) 14:11:03 <EER> The api already selects developer, because in the docker file these parameters are given: `"--user", "developer", "--client-file", "clients-development.yaml"` 14:12:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] BloodyIron commented on issue #8947: [Feature Request] Key binds, changing all of them (also, WASD movement) https://git.io/JYSUC 14:14:02 <andythenorth> hmm 14:14:19 <andythenorth> there must be a way to mathematically fake higher cargo income for some vehicles 14:14:26 <andythenorth> it can't be impossible 14:15:04 <andythenorth> the pax payment rate is known in FIRS, the algorithm is known, the vehicle can do maths 14:15:30 * andythenorth can't figure out the implementation 14:17:04 <TrueBrain> EER: which cli are you using? bananas-frontend-cli? I believe he is onlyt designed for github 14:17:49 <EER> https://github.com/OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli 14:17:53 <EER> Looks like it :) 14:24:55 <peter1138> I wonder if town-density should also scale by water amount... 14:30:32 <andythenorth> pls send me your newsletter :) 14:30:55 * andythenorth can't remember the rest of the quote, Simpsons 14:33:17 <EER> TrueBrain: hacked in "developer" flow support \o/ 14:36:39 <andythenorth> hmm, what if I give luxury pax cars some power value? 14:37:06 <andythenorth> I might be able to calculate how much power is needed so that the train earns more 14:37:18 <andythenorth> kinda depends on the player's route though 14:39:17 <andythenorth> can I measure slope? 14:41:05 <andythenorth> :o 14:41:11 <andythenorth> can GS track individual trains? :) 14:41:32 <andythenorth> and can GS modify the payment calculation when it runs? 14:42:10 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 14:42:53 <TrueBrain> EER: that would btw be a first good issue to solve in frontend-cli, that the developers flow also works :D 14:42:59 <nielsm> should I do a draft PR of my social plugin patch? 14:43:01 <TrueBrain> I only tested it against staging, I think 14:44:11 <EER> I'll tidy it up and send a PR for it :) 14:44:34 <TrueBrain> \o/ 14:44:48 <TrueBrain> nielsm: go for it; at least gives a point to start talking from honestly 14:47:39 <TrueBrain> I believe LordAro had a friend that already started the Steam part, so maybe that helps get a bit of perspective nielsm :) 14:48:25 <FLHerne> peter1138: So you get constant towns per land area? I like that idea 14:48:34 <peter1138> Approximately. 14:49:23 <peter1138> Currently if I use 50-75% sea level I have to manually adjust the number of towns, because Very Low becomes too much. 14:52:10 <andythenorth> crams them in 14:54:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #8952: Social rich presence plugins https://git.io/JYQJS 14:56:38 <peter1138> Hmm, of course, generating towns is uncoupled from the terrain generator. 14:57:39 <peter1138> And also, industry scaling as well. 15:02:38 <andythenorth> how about novelty pax coaches, instead of luxury 15:02:42 <andythenorth> bar coach 15:02:44 <andythenorth> cinema coach 15:02:52 <andythenorth> playground coach 15:03:09 <TrueBrain> nielsm: give or take what I would expect from the API indeed 15:03:24 <TrueBrain> just how to register plugins etc, that will be the interesting part now :D 15:03:51 <TrueBrain> not a fan doing it via registry, tbh 15:04:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] erenes opened pull request #20: Support developer authentication flow in bananas-cli https://git.io/JYQTb 15:05:24 <EER> I always forget about the commit message rules :/ 15:05:31 <nielsm> TrueBrain yeah I'm thinking maybe better just some files following some name pattern in the program folder 15:05:35 <TrueBrain> don't worry too much about it EER , we can fix that :) 15:05:43 <TrueBrain> nielsm: its own folder, I would say 15:05:44 <TrueBrain> but yeah 15:05:56 <TrueBrain> location of SocialJoinRequestedGame feels weird, in network_gui.cpp :) 15:06:03 <TrueBrain> but okay, minor details for a code review 15:06:06 <TrueBrain> the concept is more important atm :D 15:07:54 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ what is the crazy idea with changing restaurant car capacity using luxury cars? 15:08:01 <andythenorth> apart from it's mad...there might be something in it 15:08:04 <TrueBrain> LordAro: the repo you linked for Steam integration is no more? :( 15:09:04 <TrueBrain> the commit hashes still work :P 15:09:12 *** Compu has joined #openttd 15:09:21 <TrueBrain> nielsm: to add to the wishlist: https://github.com/ddm999/OpenTTD/commit/e42dd90aed47395e59b62f589f4b3a3a3a44597f <- callback for opening browser 15:09:35 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/ddm999/OpenTTD/commit/bea904eef7e73a25de47548829ef69c2c3e22c8d <- not sure you cover all these cases already? Possibly 15:09:57 <TrueBrain> not the client_name I think; that is also a nice addition :D 15:10:15 <nielsm> those two aren't really compatible with the idea of having multiple social plugins 15:11:09 <TrueBrain> hmm .. partially, I guess 15:11:15 <TrueBrain> Discord doesn't do browser, I would guess 15:11:22 <TrueBrain> and if I start via Steam, I would expect to use the username from Steam 15:11:42 <TrueBrain> guess some callbacks are broadcast 15:11:50 <TrueBrain> others are first come first serve? 15:11:50 <TrueBrain> dunno 15:11:58 <nielsm> that would also mean we need to recognize that the player has never manually entered a player name 15:12:06 <TrueBrain> that code is already there :) 15:12:19 <TrueBrain> owh, no, it overwrites it 15:12:35 <TrueBrain> even less of a problem, just set it to which ever comes first 15:12:40 <TrueBrain> just to get ride of "Player" 15:12:42 <TrueBrain> :D 15:13:52 <TrueBrain> but honestly, now I think about it a bit more, is having 2 plugins active sensible .. depends a bit what this will do towards the future 15:14:07 <TrueBrain> some parts are some parts are not :D 15:14:11 <TrueBrain> this is a weird world :P 15:14:39 <TrueBrain> you also only want 1 overlay, for example 15:16:21 <peter1138> LordAro, does "East Yorkshire" exist? 15:18:23 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 15:18:26 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 15:19:01 <LordAro> peter1138: generally known as "east riding" 15:20:14 <peter1138> Yeah 15:20:47 <peter1138> Trying to get some data validation going on and my colleagues (yeah, bank holidays, lol) are fairly useless. 15:21:11 <LordAro> goodo 15:21:28 <peter1138> The latest file *does* mostly validate, but only because 3000 records have had their county changed to "Greater London" which is blatantly wrong. 15:22:23 <peter1138> Bristol, Greater London. Cardiff, Greater London. Yeah. 15:22:28 <peter1138> Leeds... 15:22:30 <peter1138> Uhm 15:22:50 <LordAro> lol. 15:23:13 <andythenorth> I think I've been to East Yorkshire 15:23:22 <andythenorth> where is Robin Hood's Bay? 15:25:10 <LordAro> near Whitby 15:25:24 <LordAro> most people would describe that as North Yorkshire, tbh 15:25:33 <LordAro> "East Yorkshire" is more Hull area 15:25:39 <andythenorth> so Humberside 15:25:50 <LordAro> quite 15:26:56 <peter1138> Hmm, I should try selling my cycle carrier roof bars 15:27:14 <andythenorth> they're surprisingly hard to sell when I tried 15:27:26 <peter1138> Yes, people don't trust them. 15:27:39 <andythenorth> roof box sold easily 15:27:49 <andythenorth> the bars...I think I left them on the street 15:27:51 <peter1138> Also these are Thule, so good and expensive and unlikely to get anywhere near what I paid for them. 15:27:57 <andythenorth> standard method round here, most things go if left out 15:28:32 <peter1138> Yes well 15:29:40 <peter1138> One issue is because I'm 6'6" they are not actually long enough for two of my bikes... 15:30:25 <peter1138> Also the tourer is steel, and weighs 22kg by itself, so getting it up on the roof is somewhat a challenge. 15:31:59 <andythenorth> ouch 15:32:10 <andythenorth> if it helps, my electric bike is about 99kg 15:32:18 <andythenorth> probably doesn't help :P 15:32:33 <LordAro> i'd be surprised if it was actually that much :p 15:33:01 <supermop_Home_> andythenorth is it a motorcycle? 15:33:12 <andythenorth> it's a legal grey area 15:33:54 <supermop_Home_> apparently Harrogate has a five guys now? 15:34:46 <andythenorth> seems about 25kg for my electric bike 15:42:20 <peter1138> Feels like 40 though... 15:42:27 <peter1138> Or was it 99... 15:42:39 <peter1138> 25kg isn't much more than my tourer :/ 15:43:31 <FLHerne_> peter1138: That's quite a chonky bike 15:43:59 <FLHerne_> Even my old steel tourer is only 16kg, all-up with the rack and mudguards and such 15:44:30 <FLHerne_> I guess 6'6" means a big frame 15:44:51 <andythenorth> 'robust' 15:44:58 <peter1138> I could measure it again but cba right now 15:45:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ghisvail opened pull request #8953: Fix: Use FluidSynth default soundfont https://git.io/JYQGl 15:45:09 <peter1138> It does have a dynamo though. 15:45:53 <FLHerne_> Rob's carbon thing is, like, 8 15:45:55 <peter1138> Also it's comfy. 15:46:02 <FLHerne_> Sometimes I make excuses to borrow it :p 15:46:22 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 15:46:27 <peter1138> Even my carbon bike is chunky, although it was relatively cheap. Also it's about 5 years old now, needs some replacement parts. 15:47:16 <peter1138> But the wrong wheel bearing is wonky, despite being replaced, so it probably needs new wheels, and they are annoyingly, not cheap. 15:47:26 <peter1138> *front wheel 15:48:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ghisvail dismissed a review for pull request #8948: Fix: Honor default soundfont for FluidSynth on Debian https://git.io/JYSRj 15:48:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ghisvail updated pull request #8948: Fix: Honor default soundfont for FluidSynth on Debian https://git.io/JYSRe 15:49:49 <andythenorth> goes it throw out not having a cargo payment multiplier? 15:50:06 <andythenorth> just because mb doesn't like it, does that mean we can't do it? 15:50:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ghisvail commented on pull request #8948: Fix: Honor default soundfont for FluidSynth https://git.io/JYQZ6 15:51:08 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:51:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ghisvail commented on pull request #8953: Fix: Use FluidSynth default soundfont https://git.io/JYQZA 15:52:54 <FLHerne_> The *bearing* is wonky? 15:53:02 <andythenorth> hmm 15:53:03 <andythenorth> return BigMulS(dist * time_factor * num_pieces, cs->current_payment, 21); 15:53:13 <FLHerne_> Doesn't just need the spokes re-trueing? 15:53:31 <andythenorth> 21 is a bit magical? 15:53:45 <peter1138> No, it's the bearing. 15:54:06 <peter1138> Or rather, whatever in the hub the bearing sits on. 15:54:43 * andythenorth adventures in C++ 15:57:00 <andythenorth> well apparently this doubles payments 15:57:01 <andythenorth> return BigMulS(dist * time_factor * num_pieces, 2 * cs->current_payment, 21); 15:57:29 <andythenorth> I think this scope is far from any scope that would have the vehicle properties in it 15:57:40 <andythenorth> but that's just a matter of function params yes/no? 15:58:00 * andythenorth is in GetTransportedGoodsIncome 16:02:10 <andythenorth> wait wat, nogo can modify cargo payment? 16:02:12 * andythenorth looks 16:03:48 <andythenorth> nope 16:07:17 <andythenorth> look what I did, I hope we're all proud 16:07:17 <andythenorth> https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andythenorth/1b3fa6c44d3b9a2790fae202e846d147/raw/59c0dd64690e1eb70ed6324e54fbdb363f6cf597/gistfile1.txt 16:10:09 <peter1138> Are you trying to stuff cargo payment stuff into vehicle properties? o_O 16:10:47 <andythenorth> 'maybe' 16:10:58 <andythenorth> depends how good my C++ is 16:11:07 <andythenorth> but we already can guess...not good 16:11:43 <andythenorth> it might be funny 16:12:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8952: Social rich presence plugins https://git.io/JYQlo 16:12:22 <andythenorth> if the multiplier could be cb36, then we could have extra income at christmas for santa specials 16:12:30 <andythenorth> might have to go to depot to trigger that :P 16:12:40 <michi_cc> It might help to actually use the multiplier in GetTransportedGoodsIncome :) 16:13:07 <andythenorth> oh you read the diff? :) 16:13:10 <andythenorth> it's 2 16:13:22 <andythenorth> also I lied to nogo about the cargo payment 16:13:31 <michi_cc> Yes, but then a parameter to GetTransportedGoodsIncome? 16:13:48 <TrueBrain> w00p, we have a new peak of 3254 \o/ 16:13:53 <andythenorth> michi_cc yes 16:14:04 <andythenorth> TrueBrain is there a bell we can ring or something? 16:14:13 <TrueBrain> would be fun if we could 16:14:14 <andythenorth> how about the crossing bell sound? 16:14:19 <TrueBrain> still more people play Portal2 btw than OpenTTD 16:14:19 <andythenorth> in a discord audio channel 16:14:19 <michi_cc> But you are not using that parameter :) 16:14:21 <TrueBrain> just saying :D 16:15:15 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: Either we got a lot more "buys" or SteamSpy is very optimistic right now :) 16:15:22 <TrueBrain> the latter 16:15:25 <TrueBrain> I was just looking at that 16:15:26 <andythenorth> michi_cc I definitely didn't just silently update the diff to remove that 2 16:15:28 <TrueBrain> as it surprised me too :P 16:15:30 <andythenorth> or maybe I did 16:15:31 <TrueBrain> we are at 180k 16:15:37 <TrueBrain> so not that much more since yesterday :) 16:16:22 <TrueBrain> but stats are slacking behind 16:16:36 <TrueBrain> in 4 hours or so the stats update again to show a more recent picture, so who knows 16:16:59 <TrueBrain> can't wait till the month is over, gives us access to the Hardware Survey 16:17:04 <TrueBrain> gives some insights in what people use 16:17:52 <andythenorth> so it seems I need to get the vehicle in scope for CargoPayment::PayFinalDelivery and CargoPayment::PayTransfer 16:18:08 <TrueBrain> so ... what am I doing tonight 16:18:09 <TrueBrain> hmm 16:18:15 <TrueBrain> I have no active projects, it seems :o 16:18:22 <andythenorth> deliveroo 16:18:24 <andythenorth> netflix 16:18:31 * andythenorth says words 16:18:55 <andythenorth> CargoPayment::CargoPayment seems a bit magical 16:20:28 * andythenorth wonders if VehicleCargoList has the vehicle in scope trivially 16:21:13 <andythenorth> 'friend class'? 16:21:19 * andythenorth google 16:21:29 *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC 16:21:58 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 16:22:01 <andythenorth> "your friend's children are not your friends" too true, IRL 16:22:06 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 16:24:41 <EER> friend in ye olde VB6 days was what we call internal in C# nowadays (iirc) 16:25:10 <EER> I hope you're not inflicted with vb :p 16:25:38 <andythenorth> I think we can assume I have never touched VB 16:25:41 <nielsm> in C++ a friend is a clas or function that's allowed to touch your privates 16:25:55 <andythenorth> I'm not sure THAT applies in RL 16:26:20 <nielsm> being friends in C++ comes with benefits 16:26:31 <andythenorth> ouch 16:26:50 <andythenorth> hmm I can't see any way for the VehicleCargoList to get the vehicle it belongs to? 16:27:26 <andythenorth> typedef CargoList<VehicleCargoList, CargoPacketList> Parent; gives the parent class, not the parent object? 16:31:03 <andythenorth> so possibly VehicleCargoList would need to store the multiplier on init? 16:31:16 <andythenorth> then be updated when cb36 triggers 16:31:23 * andythenorth has no clue how to C++ 16:35:25 <andythenorth> hmm 16:37:27 * andythenorth thinks this just fragments OpenTTD 16:37:44 <andythenorth> what's the magic cargo profit CB do, wouldn't that be cleaner? 16:39:07 <andythenorth> would still need the vehicle :| 16:39:41 *** tommy has joined #openttd 16:41:06 *** didac has joined #openttd 16:43:07 * _dp_ never have been happier getting a game to crash 16:43:29 <milek7> what? :P 16:43:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #8952: Social rich presence plugins https://git.io/JYQJS 16:43:58 <_dp_> means I don't have to install a freaking Visual Studio now that I can debug it in linux xD 16:46:06 <tommy> i've got a lot of money and no ideas, what should i do? 16:46:12 <tommy> (in ttd) 16:47:23 *** tommy has quit IRC 16:49:31 <_dp_> write a negative review on steam 16:49:40 <_dp_> at least that seems to be a popular solution 16:49:54 <_dp_> (for anyone still here don't actually do that, I'm joking) 16:50:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] erenes opened pull request #21: Fix: do not try to authenticate when requesting help (#4) https://git.io/JYQzj 16:50:45 <peter1138> Hmm 16:51:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] erenes updated pull request #21: Fix: do not try to authenticate when requesting help (#4) https://git.io/JYQzj 16:52:52 <peter1138> min_x != min_y 16:52:53 <peter1138> Oops 16:54:13 <andythenorth> is there some way I can iterate all vehicles to find out which vehicle a VehicleCargoList instance belongs to? 16:55:11 <_dp_> hmm.. why is it spamming [Detaching after fork from child process xxx] in gdb on the main screen? 17:00:05 <peter1138> Maybe it's forking... 17:00:34 <nielsm> I think the autosave process on unix uses fork? 17:03:58 <frosch123> maybe that external midi player 17:04:08 <frosch123> but regular threading does not fork 17:04:39 <andythenorth> hmm CargoPayment::CargoPayment caches a reference to front vehicle? 17:04:48 <andythenorth> can it cache a reference to current vehicle? 17:04:50 <peter1138> When you set everything up to scale by gui... and then you need to not scale at one point... bah :/ 17:05:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #8952: Social rich presence plugins https://git.io/JYQJS 17:05:32 <_dp_> it seems to fork like every second 17:05:41 <_dp_> if not often 17:07:49 <TrueBrain> nielsm: btw, Rich Presence or Social Presence? 17:07:53 <TrueBrain> the first seems to be used mostly, not? 17:08:55 <nielsm> rich presence via a social plugin? 17:09:00 <peter1138> Social implies you have friends. 17:09:21 <TrueBrain> I haven't read the word "social" in any of the docs I read about this at least :) 17:09:30 <peter1138> Is there an easy opposite for "ScaleGUITrad"? 17:09:33 <TrueBrain> lol @ copyright notice .. you have an old version it seems :D 17:09:46 <TrueBrain> owh, not everwhere 17:10:04 <TrueBrain> but it states a year, that was funny to me :) 17:10:10 <TrueBrain> old patch :P 17:10:37 *** spnda has joined #openttd 17:10:48 <nielsm> oh, the plugin api header 17:11:01 <_dp_> yeah, it forks in MusicDriver_ExtMidi::DoPlay 17:11:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #8952: Social rich presence plugins https://git.io/JYQJS 17:17:27 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ shall I keep the Mk2 style coach sprite, or the Mk3 style? https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.21.0/html/trains.html#passenger_car_pony_gen_5C vs https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.21.0/html/trains.html#luxury_passenger_car_pony_gen_5U 17:17:38 * andythenorth is incapable of making choices :x 17:21:42 <peter1138> Hmm, this is nicer. 17:23:15 <peter1138> Hmm, accidentally fixes the control widgets too. "Oops" 17:25:32 <peter1138> Or perhaps breaks. Hmm. 17:26:16 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 17:27:24 * andythenorth wonders how people write actual code 17:28:08 <LordAro> andythenorth: copious amounts of stackoverflow posts 17:28:26 <LordAro> i supose we should do a 1.11.1 soon, given the macos saving issue 17:28:28 <andythenorth> it means holding 9 or 18 things in your head, where I can hold 3 17:28:43 <andythenorth> I could write flash games because it's all one loop, and it's just scripting 17:29:03 <andythenorth> I hate writing js because it's state strewn all over the DOM, it's events, and there's no real loop 17:29:20 <andythenorth> I can script python compiles because it's only 3 dimensional 17:30:33 <peter1138> I see. Currently with "double" gui zoom, buttons are not actually double size, they are double sprite size. Subtle but distinct difference. 17:32:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8934: Change: NewGRF window apply button to disable if changes not made https://git.io/JYPk3 17:32:49 <peter1138> Scrollbars go from 12px to 20px, not 24px. Hmm. 17:32:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8934: Change: NewGRF window apply button to disable if changes not made https://git.io/JYQ6n 17:33:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8934: Change: NewGRF window apply button to disable if changes not made https://git.io/JYPk3 17:34:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8934: Change: NewGRF window apply button to disable if changes not made https://git.io/JYQ6B 17:34:05 <peter1138> Any idea how to do 1.5x sprite scaling? :/ 17:34:14 <peter1138> (Or arbitrary...) 17:34:42 <didac> yeah arbitrary even better :D that would be really neast 17:34:44 <didac> neat* 17:36:44 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 17:41:59 <_dp_> I've seen some interesting upscale libs but don't remember where now 17:42:39 <peter1138> Hmm, I guess it would be sufficient to scale padding even if the sprites are not arbitrarily scaled. 17:43:39 <_dp_> nah, not quite, before 4k I was very much missing 1.5 sprite scale 17:46:07 <nielsm> I still occasionally think about adding a vector-based sprite format to GRF 17:46:18 <nielsm> for GUI and font-like things 17:48:55 <andythenorth> cargo icons :P 17:49:05 <andythenorth> we could use something totally crazy like....svg 17:55:54 <milek7> https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/20pdf/18-956_d18f.pdf 17:58:27 <peter1138> Have beer, will ponder 17:59:03 *** otetede has joined #openttd 18:02:22 *** otetede has quit IRC 18:02:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] esselfe opened issue #8954: Can't build 1.11.0 https://git.io/JYQ18 18:05:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] esselfe commented on issue #8954: Can't build 1.11.0 https://git.io/JYQ18 18:07:38 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 18:07:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] perezdidac opened pull request #85: Change: add upload-date to packet size validation https://git.io/JYQMM 18:08:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] perezdidac commented on pull request #43: Add: pass upload date to OpenTTD client https://git.io/JYQDJ 18:12:04 <didac> has anyone tried making it possible to overlap bridges? building one that goes on top of another? 18:12:37 <LordAro> didac: graphical issues is the main blocker, i believe 18:14:32 <didac> yeah I am pretty sure, I tried a while ago by removing the condition that prevents bridges from getting built if there is an existing one, but an assertion kicked. Found out the logic to determine whether there is a bridge is by iterating in every direction until hitting a tunnelbridge head 18:14:54 <peter1138> Yeah, it was done long ago, but not merged. 18:21:13 *** y2kboy23 has quit IRC 18:21:54 *** y2kboy23 has joined #openttd 18:29:19 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 18:29:32 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 18:35:51 <andythenorth> peter1138 so capping stations, would kinda fix my Iron Horse pax coach madness, in the most roundabout and weird way :P 18:36:22 <andythenorth> (station cargo waiting amount) 18:39:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8934: Change: NewGRF window apply button to disable if changes not made https://git.io/JYQHU 18:39:38 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: I really like the preview stuff, much faster than fetching and compiling everything locally :D 18:39:55 <TrueBrain> :D 18:44:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8934: Change: NewGRF window apply button to disable if changes not made https://git.io/JYQHM 18:55:44 <peter1138> andythenorth, then you get onto "should newgrf stations be able to change the cap" 18:56:06 <peter1138> and also "what's a reasonable cap" 18:56:32 <peter1138> and also stupid things like "is this cap cargo specific" 18:57:33 <andythenorth> ha yes 18:57:37 <andythenorth> then we have regrets 18:57:56 <andythenorth> but then I cap stations and I don't need 2 kinds of 8/8 pax with high and low capacity :P 18:58:14 <andythenorth> currently I have those, and it causes 'grf is fucked and unbalanced' reports 18:58:57 <andythenorth> the only antidote to cdist pax is VERY HIGH CAPACITY VEHICLES 19:02:30 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 19:02:51 <andythenorth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Mzqxxio_w 19:05:20 <peter1138> As some Steam review said, if cargo actually had destinations then it could work better. 19:05:28 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 19:05:42 <peter1138> But also it's not entirely wrong that people go where the transport goes. 19:05:50 <andythenorth> YACDist Revival 19:05:54 <andythenorth> we can rebuild them! 19:06:00 <peter1138> YACDest 19:06:18 <peter1138> It's almost nogo terrority though. 19:06:22 <andythenorth> we can 'just' manipulate the weighting 19:06:24 <andythenorth> 'just' 19:06:35 <peter1138> If nogo could assign a destination instead... hmmm.... 19:06:40 <peter1138> Just 19:06:42 <andythenorth> it would need to be per cargo, I don't know if JGR solved that yet 19:06:45 <peter1138> Also rebalance, again. 19:06:49 <andythenorth> again! 19:06:54 <andythenorth> balance isn't anyway 19:07:18 <peter1138> Isn't that the joke... 19:07:26 <peter1138> Also my beer ran out. 19:07:45 <peter1138> Maybe I should get another, I wouldn't want it to... go off. 19:08:04 <andythenorth> yeah 19:08:24 <andythenorth> so New Vehicle Running Costs 19:08:35 <peter1138> New? 19:08:36 <andythenorth> they're vehicle running costs, but just a % of earnings 19:08:43 <andythenorth> much better all round 19:08:46 <andythenorth> 'auto' 19:08:48 <peter1138> Running costs have long been newgrf tweakable no? 19:08:57 <andythenorth> they even have a setting! 19:09:00 <andythenorth> and base cost mods! 19:09:07 <peter1138> % of earnings... that's unfair, like taxation! 19:09:14 <andythenorth> frosch123 is that a good enough 'auto' ^^ 19:09:21 <andythenorth> some vehicles are just more efficient than others :P 19:09:56 <peter1138> % of earnings is a bit meh. Guaranteed to make profit regardless of, well, anythig 19:10:14 <andythenorth> it avoids having to play-test 'balance' and stuff 19:10:24 <andythenorth> which is currently the most tedious part of newgrf dev 19:10:28 <andythenorth> and not one I can automate 19:10:35 <andythenorth> and I can't rely on playerbase for it 19:10:40 <andythenorth> for $reasons about people 19:10:44 <peter1138> Just ask Samu to do it. 19:11:04 <andythenorth> ideally I just paint trains, assign power and stuff 19:11:15 <andythenorth> game does the rest 19:11:32 <andythenorth> no more thinking about maps from 64^ to 4096^2 19:11:38 <andythenorth> etc 19:11:41 <peter1138> Never thing about that. 19:11:45 <peter1138> Make it work for 256x256. 19:11:50 <andythenorth> I try to only think about that 19:11:54 <andythenorth> the ultimate size 19:11:59 <andythenorth> all others are worse 19:12:05 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: I might have found a clever way to use STUN with TCP after all :D 19:12:07 <TrueBrain> I have to test it out 19:12:08 <peter1138> No, but consider it the baseline. 19:12:22 <TrueBrain> but I think I can utilize AWS ALB to offload the TCP connections sufficiently :) 19:12:25 <peter1138> If it's out of whack for other sizes, so is everything else... 19:14:11 <andythenorth> what are synonyms for 'luxury' in Luxury Passenger Coach 19:14:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 19:14:24 <andythenorth> that basically mean 'this one looks like Mk2A not Mk3 coach' 19:14:31 <andythenorth> or 'this one has 12 wheels for amusing spriteness' 19:14:43 <andythenorth> it's just like...an alternative coach 19:15:01 <andythenorth> and it happens to have crap capacity also and is entirely non-balanceable 19:15:09 <andythenorth> 'Worse Passenger Coach" 19:15:17 <andythenorth> "Just Relax Passenger Coach" 19:15:44 <andythenorth> "Passenger Coach In The Time of Covid" 19:15:54 <andythenorth> "Socially Distanced Passenger Coach" 19:16:52 <peter1138> Leave it unbalanced. People interested in efficiency will not use it. People who are just playing with a trainset will use it for the visuals. 19:18:43 <andythenorth> it was 'balanced' by cargo aging, and nobody noticed that was irrelevant until LC proved it 19:18:57 <andythenorth> I was aware and quietly filing it down the back of the sofa 19:19:06 * andythenorth has gone full irrational about this now though 19:23:08 <andythenorth> lol 19:23:21 <andythenorth> Iron Horse is accidentally completely realistic for coach capacities 19:23:52 <andythenorth> a BR standard MK2 would carry 64 or 48, depending on whether it had arm rests on the chairs or not 19:24:11 <andythenorth> arm rests were not fitted in regions with heavy commuter traffic 19:24:20 <andythenorth> in all other respects coach was identical 19:24:55 <andythenorth> such realism 19:25:19 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I think the fact that no-one noticed proves peter1138's point 19:25:24 <andythenorth> yes 19:26:24 <andythenorth> everyone has proved the point :) 19:26:32 <FLHerne> But that's not the point? 19:26:33 <andythenorth> I have just fallen into a temporary insanity hole 19:26:56 <FLHerne> Can't you just make it, like, *more* anti-cargo-aging? 19:27:14 <FLHerne> Or did I miss the bit where you proved that was impossible because the game is broken 19:27:46 <andythenorth> it's the need to nerf standard vehicles that's weird 19:27:51 <andythenorth> and everything else 19:28:03 <FLHerne> nerf everything, OTTD is way too easy 19:28:09 <FLHerne> (vaguely serious) 19:28:22 <andythenorth> to balance two vehicles with same role, but different capacity, the only solution is to make one of them impossible to use above a certain length 19:28:29 <FLHerne> I liked the thing in NARS where it was actually quite easy to slip up and go bankrupt in the first few years 19:28:38 <andythenorth> except that dp proves cargo aging doesn't matter anyway, only distance 19:28:44 <FLHerne> come to think of it, that was some server so there might have been different basecosts too 19:28:48 <andythenorth> NARS used to kill me often 19:28:53 <andythenorth> so hard 19:30:05 <FLHerne> Is industry funding/prospecting cost a callback? 19:30:16 <FLHerne> i.e. can you make the first ones cheaper? 19:30:25 <FLHerne> <random thought> 19:30:43 <andythenorth> not listed as a cb 19:30:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8954: Can't build 1.11.0 https://git.io/JYQ18 19:31:02 <andythenorth> currently I have a commit deleting the non-standard pax cars, but I'm not convinced 19:32:05 <peter1138> Stop it. 19:32:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] erenes opened pull request #22: Fix: Use urllib to combine urls (#5) https://git.io/JYQbM 19:32:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] esselfe commented on issue #8954: Can't build 1.11.0 https://git.io/JYQ18 19:33:08 <andythenorth> there must be some amusing solution, there's always a way 19:33:49 <peter1138> Just make pretty graphics. Let users figure out it's not worth using. 19:34:58 <andythenorth> but this is so useful! https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.21.0/html/snowplough_pony_gen_2.html 19:35:00 <andythenorth> such balance! 19:35:18 <peter1138> Hmm, interesting, not all titlebars are the same height currently. 19:39:29 <TrueBrain> simulating local NAT is very tricky 19:41:11 <peter1138> Easy, just configure one of your routers properly. 19:41:21 *** PhaseV has joined #openttd 19:41:30 <TrueBrain> I need to simulate it, not have it :P 19:41:42 <peter1138> Easiest way to simulate... is to do it :D 19:41:58 <TrueBrain> best flight simulator is sitting in a real plane, gotcha :) 19:42:04 <PhaseV> Hi there, can i ask for help in german? 19:42:20 <peter1138> I have... hmm, 5 routing capable devices at home, although 3 are configured for L2 switching/bridging. 19:42:22 <TrueBrain> is the German for help also help? :D 19:42:31 <TrueBrain> fur hielpe? 19:42:37 <TrueBrain> I dunno what the German is "for help" 19:42:46 <TrueBrain> sorry, I am not helping :D 19:42:58 <Eddi|zuHause> hilfe :) 19:43:19 <PhaseV> :) 19:43:52 <peter1138> Urgh, where's the code for the graph "keys" windows... 19:44:37 <peter1138> Ah. Legend. Of course. 19:46:12 <PhaseV> I have set up a dedicated server under Linux with my buddies today (Ver 1.11.0) unfortunately we have a few problems. 1. every time the server is restarted, it generates a new map 2. although autosave is off, an autosave is performed and you get a timeout after 20 seconds. How can we fix these problems? 19:46:19 <PhaseV> DeepL translation ;) 19:48:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8954: Can't build 1.11.0 https://git.io/JYQ18 19:48:19 <TrueBrain> 1) you have to save and load that savegame on restart 19:48:34 <TrueBrain> 2) possibly this is an emergency save that is being done, but I am not sure 19:49:13 <peter1138> Dimension GetSpriteSize(SpriteID sprid, Point *offset = nullptr, ZoomLevel zoom = ZOOM_LVL_GUI); 19:49:21 <peter1138> How does that even work, when ZOOM_LVL_GUI isn't a constant? 19:49:24 <PhaseV> 1) Ok, then we have to script this 19:49:50 <TrueBrain> might be nice if dedicated servers could just reload the last save .. hmm .. something to consider for next version 19:49:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] esselfe commented on issue #8954: Can't build 1.11.0 https://git.io/JYQ18 19:50:39 <peter1138> Okay, apparently in C++ they don't have to be constant. Hmm. 19:50:55 <LordAro> peter1138: is it not a constant? what is it? 19:51:11 <peter1138> It's a define, to a static variable. 19:51:15 <peter1138> (Yes) 19:51:23 <peter1138> Worse, it was probably me. 19:52:01 <PhaseV> but how we can prevent the disconnect? 19:52:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8954: Can't build 1.11.0 https://git.io/JYQ18 19:52:16 <TrueBrain> PhaseV: what is the error given on the server? 19:52:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] esselfe commented on issue #8954: Can't build 1.11.0 https://git.io/JYQ18 19:53:08 <PhaseV> aftern 20 seconds no reasson from server and the ottd cliend is frozen and disconnects from server 19:53:15 <TrueBrain> LordAro: possible the build folder had a faulty CMake run and is not pointing to the wrong folders? Dunno .. feels weird :P 19:53:19 <michi_cc> peter1138: Default arguments are evaluated at the call site and not during function declaration, which is why they don't need to be strictyl constants. 19:53:40 <TrueBrain> PhaseV: I have no clue. 19:53:42 <peter1138> Yeah, I'm kinda used to C# which is more restrictive. 19:53:53 <michi_cc> This is different to languages like C#/.net, where the default arguments are acutally backed into the function metadata. 19:53:57 <PhaseV> ok, then we will try 19:54:31 <peter1138> Anyway, I basically want to get GetSpriteSize and FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL but without GUI zoom applied. Hmm. 19:54:56 <glx> TrueBrain: possible cache issue yes 19:55:31 *** nielsm has quit IRC 19:55:31 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 19:55:33 <peter1138> I think it's easy for GetSpriteSize, but FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL, less so. 19:55:50 <peter1138> Although actually. Hmm. 19:56:13 <peter1138> FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL isn't scaled by GUI zoom anyway, that's text zoom. 19:56:18 <peter1138> Oh dear. 19:56:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8934: Change: NewGRF window apply button to disable if changes not made https://git.io/JYPk3 20:02:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8954: Can't build 1.11.0 https://git.io/JYQ18 20:03:38 <michi_cc> glx: Sanity check question: Is anything confused by the path starting with '/build'? 20:03:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] esselfe commented on issue #8954: Can't build 1.11.0 https://git.io/JYQ18 20:03:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] esselfe closed issue #8954: Can't build 1.11.0 https://git.io/JYQ18 20:04:01 <glx> no, cmake doesn't care about the path 20:04:29 <glx> and we have an happy customer :) 20:04:36 <LordAro> glx: is it possible to delete that file when it has that particular error? 20:04:44 <LordAro> or at least clarify the error message 20:05:44 <peter1138> Maybe if I got rid of separate font zoom... it's dumb anyway. 20:06:07 <glx> it should be possible to add a hint in the error message 20:06:09 <TrueBrain> hmm .. can you have a socket for listening and a socket for connecting under Windows? You can under linux with SO_REUSEADDR, but not sure that also works on Windows .. 20:06:56 <didac> hey folks, has anyone tried to add a button to reset all settings to default? I am considering doing it, with a query confirmation popup of course, but I wonder anyone will strongly oppose to that. 20:07:40 <LordAro> TrueBrain: reuseaddr is pretty new, isn't it? 20:07:47 <TrueBrain> no, not new :P 20:07:49 <TrueBrain> Win95 even has it 20:07:56 <TrueBrain> but I remember Windows did something different with it 20:08:04 <LordAro> what am i thinking of then... 20:08:08 <TrueBrain> well, it is a security nightmare to begin with, but that is a different store :D 20:08:12 <TrueBrain> SO_EXCLUSIVEADDRUSE ? 20:08:14 <TrueBrain> that is newer 20:08:18 <TrueBrain> (still 10 years old :P) 20:08:44 <peter1138> You wouldn't want to kill off Windows XP... 20:08:45 <LordAro> there was something that allowed multiple things listening on the same port, iirc 20:09:09 <TrueBrain> SO_REUSEADDR :P 20:09:22 <TrueBrain> but docs say it should work on Windows 20:09:26 <TrueBrain> so .. I am just going to try, I guess 20:09:38 <LordAro> you're gonna make me google this, aren't you? :p 20:10:08 <TrueBrain> if you can't leave it alone what ever pop'd in your mind, I guess you have to 20:10:13 <TrueBrain> my mind-reading-machine is broken 20:10:17 <TrueBrain> they keep saying: next month 20:10:20 <TrueBrain> but that is clearly a lie :D 20:11:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #8934: Change: NewGRF window apply button to disable if changes not made https://git.io/JYQja 20:15:03 <spnda> From LordAro's comment on 8934: What are the plans for the new windows for 1.12, are they documented anywhere? 20:15:20 <spnda> I only saw some mockups from TrueBrain on a new main menu 20:17:12 *** EER has quit IRC 20:22:25 <TrueBrain> 28 curators reviewed OpenTTD .. lets see what they say :D 20:24:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8934: Change: Disable NewGRF window apply button if no change was made https://git.io/JYPk3 20:26:26 <TrueBrain> what a horrible interface does Steam have for that :P 20:27:38 <peter1138> Can't be as bad as OpenTTD's interface. 20:27:51 <peter1138> andythenorth, this other beer ran out too. Defective :( 20:29:30 *** PhaseV has left #openttd 20:30:06 <LordAro> TrueBrain: having reviewed some release notes, i *think* i'm thinking of SO_REUSEPORT, but i'm sure it was more recent than 3.9... 20:30:23 <TrueBrain> 3.9 what, sorry? 20:30:33 <LordAro> kernel 20:31:09 <TrueBrain> how does REUSEPORT differ from REUSEADDR .. 20:32:04 <TrueBrain> same but better :P 20:33:56 <TrueBrain> now the question .. how am I going to test out if this works, without implementing it completely first :P 20:33:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #8955: Change: [CMake] Improve In-source error message https://git.io/JY7fB 20:34:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8955: Change: [CMake] Improve In-source error message https://git.io/JY7fu 20:34:48 <glx> tried to auto delete cache, but it seems cmake recreates it on exit 20:35:03 <TrueBrain> never auto delete :P You will hurt someone somewhere in the future :D 20:35:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8955: Change: [CMake] Improve In-source error message https://git.io/JY7fB 20:36:07 <TrueBrain> finally someone that fixed my scratch in that file :P 20:39:48 <andythenorth> peter1138 shameful 20:40:00 <andythenorth> but I loaded my Warcraft 1 savegame that I kept losing 20:40:01 <andythenorth> and won it 20:40:05 <andythenorth> savepoint abuse 20:41:49 <peter1138> Bah, why is this window not resizing... 20:42:29 <andythenorth> it's had too many beers 20:42:49 <andythenorth> become obstreperous 20:43:13 <peter1138> Okay then I'll open the whisky. 20:43:16 <glx> <spnda> I only saw some mockups from TrueBrain on a new main menu <-- that's about all we have for now I think, but it was a starting point 20:43:18 <andythenorth> that will fix it 20:43:37 <andythenorth> I mean...we could just add a newgrf cargo payment multiplier and be done with it eh :) 20:43:48 <andythenorth> it's about 10 simple lines, a savegame bump 20:43:57 <andythenorth> and then something that completely mystifies me :P 20:44:09 <glx> and there may be a gist too spnda 20:44:27 <peter1138> What, for all newgrf? 20:45:28 <spnda> glx: Ah ok, thanks 20:45:34 <andythenorth> yes 20:45:38 <glx> spnda: https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/717ec940bb48d309747bffdc5b2e507e <-- well probably where you saw the mockups 20:45:55 <andythenorth> do I mean savegame bump? 20:45:59 <spnda> Actually, no, that's not where I saw them 20:46:10 <andythenorth> I mean a cache would have to be primed when loading an old save 20:46:17 <andythenorth> and I might be wrong anyway 20:46:20 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I am happy you found SO_REUSEPORT :P 20:46:36 <glx> and sorry for all the free HLs ;) 20:46:38 <TrueBrain> under Windows, SO_REUSEADDR works, but under Linux it doesn't .. but SO_REUSEPORT does :D 20:47:23 <peter1138> Urgh. 20:51:13 <glx> cross platform is always fun ;) 20:51:28 <andythenorth> we have very different ideas of fun :) 20:56:06 *** Samu has quit IRC 20:57:59 <TrueBrain> " Only one usage of each socket address (protocol/network address/port) is normally permitted" but it does work :P 20:58:02 <TrueBrain> ish 20:58:16 <TrueBrain> Python seems to act up a bit 20:59:35 <TrueBrain> can we just drop Windows support? 20:59:36 <TrueBrain> so much easier 20:59:40 <TrueBrain> and shows we are not MS fanboys! 20:59:52 <glx> but we use github ;) 21:00:14 <TrueBrain> omg .. and imagine that we only support MS compiler ..... 21:00:18 <TrueBrain> no no 21:00:21 <TrueBrain> this has gone to far 21:00:47 <peter1138> Release on Windows Store oinly 21:03:41 <TrueBrain> okay, SO_REUSEADDR is annoying as .... :P 21:03:42 <TrueBrain> but funny 21:06:18 <TrueBrain> so this trick works fine on Linux, but Windows needs more ... motivation :P 21:06:40 <TrueBrain> you need a TCP socket that is both accepting and connecting, which of course is a bit iffy 21:11:22 <peter1138> You need to make an outbound connection from a specific port? 21:11:35 <TrueBrain> NAT punching 21:12:17 <peter1138> Ah 21:12:27 <TrueBrain> for UDP that is trivial 21:12:31 <TrueBrain> for TCP .. a bit more trickery is required 21:12:38 <peter1138> Magic that may or may not work anyway :D 21:12:42 <TrueBrain> but rumors are it is possible 21:16:56 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:27:00 <TrueBrain> Windows has a really hard time mixing a listening socket with a connecting socket :D 21:27:01 <TrueBrain> lol 21:28:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg opened issue #8956: Disasters: wrong location shown in factory/refinery destroyed message https://git.io/JY7L2 21:29:58 <LordAro> looks like location of where the vehicle enters the map, rather than the industry 21:31:51 <TrueBrain> luckily there now is a FF that makes it easier to get these kind of disasters :P 21:33:42 <peter1138> Damn, heating turned off, freezing house :/ 21:33:55 <peter1138> Maybe I should invest in some insulation 21:35:42 <peter1138> Why do some windows resize based on minimum sizes, and others don't... hmm. 21:36:23 <heffer> SO_REUSEPORT is newer than SO_REUSEADDR and for UDP is kinda broken in older Kernels. 21:36:55 <heffer> SO_REUSEPORT has the benefit of limiting the reusing of a port to the user that initially started the process that bound the socket first. 21:37:46 <heffer> One advantage or SO_REUSEADDR is that you can set this on a port after binding it. So you can bind the port first, set SO_REUSEADDR after and then bind more sockets. 21:38:44 <heffer> This way you can prevent a user from inadvertently starting another, different process (i.e. not openttd) on the same port. 21:39:31 <heffer> Haven't worked with either using TCP but with UDP incoming traffic is evenly distributed across the bound sockets which usually isn't a problem if all connections use the same recv method. 21:40:01 <TrueBrain> if you use SO_REUSEADDR on TCP on Windows, it is undefined where SYN/ACKs end up :P 21:40:05 <TrueBrain> if you bind 2 sockets on the same address 21:40:07 <TrueBrain> which is hilarious 21:42:06 <heffer> The headache of handling that must be mind-bending. 21:43:00 <heffer> I only worked with these settings implementing L2TPv3 tunnels which carry the ID of the connection they belong to in every packet header. So it's kinda obvious what belongs where. 21:44:02 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:44:21 <TrueBrain> right, Python proof-of-concept done .. now to test it in the real world .. fun 21:44:30 <peter1138> Oh, because ReInit() tries to keep close to the original size. Hmm. 21:50:43 <peter1138> Probably there's too many ways to set widget size up. Hmm. 21:50:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg opened issue #8957: Sounds of game - zooming out the view in fact doesn't reduce the volume of sounds https://git.io/JY7qV 21:51:51 <TrueBrain> that moment you realise you no longer have any place to SSH to to start a simple test server on a public ip :D 21:52:00 <TrueBrain> sweet .. the day is finally here :D 21:52:35 <heffer> hashtag serverless 21:52:42 <TrueBrain> tried the BaNaNaS VPSes, but someone did what I asked him to .. and firewalled the VPSes :P 21:53:14 <TrueBrain> and I don't understand those new firewalls enough to know how to poke a hole :P 21:54:00 <TrueBrain> so how am I going to test this now :P 21:54:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #8957: Sounds of game - zooming out the view in fact doesn't reduce the volume of sounds https://git.io/JY7qV 21:54:45 <LordAro> TrueBrain: bwahaha 21:55:08 <TrueBrain> LordAro: yes, that is the correct response from you to me :D 21:56:01 <LordAro> tbh, i'm not sure how to poke a hole either without some (brief) googling 21:56:26 <TrueBrain> its okay really :) 21:56:39 <TrueBrain> awh, http x-forwarded-for header doesn't contain source port , hmm .. there goes that idea 21:57:15 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:57:29 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:03:09 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:03:32 <TrueBrain> one of the worst things about vim 22:03:37 <TrueBrain> you copy/paste a blob Python 22:03:47 <TrueBrain> and it adds all kind of weird tabs and spaces 22:03:48 <TrueBrain> fuck that shit 22:03:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #8957: Sounds of game - zooming out the view in fact doesn't reduce the volume of sounds https://git.io/JY7qV 22:04:32 *** jellyknight has quit IRC 22:04:47 <heffer> TrueBrain: : set noai fixes that quickly :P 22:04:51 <heffer> We don't want AI 22:05:49 <peter1138> http://miniupnp.free.fr/libnatpmp.html 22:06:32 <LordAro> TrueBrain: :set paste 22:07:02 <TrueBrain> LordAro: yeah, found it after calling some search results names 22:07:07 <TrueBrain> people that go fully in depth explaining vim 22:07:12 <TrueBrain> instead of just .. telling me .. wtf I have to do :P 22:07:15 <TrueBrain> like I care about vim 22:07:28 <heffer> Not as much as it cares about you 22:08:40 <glx> peter1138: oh it's from the current opendune maintainer 22:08:57 <TrueBrain> so that is what his name comes from :P 22:10:56 <peter1138> Heh. Anyway, maybe that's something to look at, maybe it's not. 22:11:16 <TrueBrain> "At the moment it is mainly supported by Apple software and hardware." 22:11:21 <TrueBrain> that is my main issue with that solution :( 22:11:33 <peter1138> My hardware supports it and is nothing to do with Apple. 22:11:44 <peter1138> Also 2008. 22:11:45 <TrueBrain> LIES on that website! 22:11:50 <TrueBrain> we know who to tell that it has lies! :D 22:11:58 <peter1138> It's not universal, that's for sure. 22:12:14 <peter1138> And some consider it a security issue so disable it. 22:12:18 <andythenorth> right https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1243374#p1243374 22:12:28 <peter1138> It won't work for provider-based NAT either, but that's evil shit anyway. 22:12:34 * andythenorth should not read the internet 22:12:38 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I am testing some NATs .. and this NAT uses the same port on the public side as the internal port 22:12:42 <TrueBrain> that is not expected 22:12:43 <peter1138> Why doesn't everyone just have IPv6 yet? 22:12:45 <peter1138> :( 22:13:07 <glx> I have a fake IPv4 22:13:29 <peter1138> :/ 22:13:46 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I don't think they're actually wrong, it's just lacking some tact 22:13:52 <FLHerne> Possibly lost in translation? 22:13:55 <glx> and native IPv6 22:14:11 <FLHerne> I must admit, I've been finding the new 'Location' toolbar button annoying 22:14:15 <peter1138> I have 9 real IPv4 and a /48 in IPv6. 22:14:22 <FLHerne> More consistent, but it's tiny and hard to click on a laptop 22:14:23 <peter1138> Well, not mine, it's the providers, but routed to me. 22:14:26 <andythenorth> FLHerne it's just unrealistic 22:14:32 <andythenorth> either we can have progress 22:14:36 <andythenorth> or we can have atrophy 22:14:51 <peter1138> My main qualm with the new icon is that I keep sending vehicles to depots by mistake. 22:14:55 <FLHerne> Well, yeah, but that's what feedback is for :p 22:14:57 <TrueBrain> I like "some tact", that is a nice description :D 22:15:06 <FLHerne> They said they liked some things 22:15:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #8956: Disasters: wrong location shown in factory/refinery destroyed message https://git.io/JY7L2 22:16:05 <andythenorth> the idea of soliciting feedback from the player base falls at the first hurdle 22:16:17 <andythenorth> because the playerbase has NFI what it wants 22:16:47 * andythenorth says this in full disclosure, my day job is basically getting public feedback on government policy 22:17:00 <andythenorth> but the public knows what it wants on policy decisions 22:17:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #8949: Unable to abandon/quit https://git.io/JYS9b 22:17:32 <andythenorth> players of a free game have no fucking clue 22:17:39 <peter1138> 52/48 22:18:03 <milek7> public knows? ahaha 22:18:13 <andythenorth> public knows what it wants 22:18:21 <andythenorth> result is...result 22:18:24 <andythenorth> that's democracy 22:18:30 <andythenorth> game design isn't democracy 22:18:45 <andythenorth> 'feedback' is making commits or reviews 22:19:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac opened pull request #8958: Feature: button to reset game settings to their default values https://git.io/JY7Yr 22:19:35 <peter1138> ^ rm openttd.cfg 22:20:50 <peter1138> Damn this rabbit whole. 22:21:28 <andythenorth> oof :) 22:21:33 <andythenorth> whole rabbit 22:21:39 <andythenorth> more rabbit than Sainsburys 22:22:03 <andythenorth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOSseI1hao8 22:22:22 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I feel like government policy should be like that too :p 22:22:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8958: Feature: button to reset game settings to their default values https://git.io/JY7YN 22:22:57 <FLHerne> peter1138: "Button to delete openttd.cfg", then 22:23:18 <LordAro> peter1138: i asked for you 22:23:38 <peter1138> Whowhatwherewhy? 22:24:55 <andythenorth> FLHerne what, made with the people it affects, by people who have skin in the game? ;) 22:27:02 <peter1138> Oh right. 22:27:41 <peter1138> I was actually joking. I assume "reset game settings" means just the, er, game settings, rather than all settings. 22:28:26 <FLHerne> I think that proves that "settings" and "game settings" are bad names for different things 22:28:37 <FLHerne> (not that anyone's proposed better ones yet) 22:29:04 <supermop_Home_> can we be rid of the grey menu yet? 22:29:12 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I think one of the two NATs I am testing with is symmetric NAT :P It does nothing what my own NAT is doing :D 22:30:29 <supermop_Home_> why is the goldeneye cradle music over 4 minutes long? 22:30:40 <supermop_Home_> that level take like 45-90 seconds 22:31:21 <supermop_Home_> i never got 00 agent on Aztec or control... 22:36:50 <andythenorth> I only played it on multiplayer 22:36:54 <andythenorth> classic student game 22:37:05 <andythenorth> one character was consistently OP, can't remember which 22:38:00 <supermop_Home_> its actually the short moonraker soldier 22:38:06 <supermop_Home_> not oddjob 22:38:39 <supermop_Home_> most house rules were 'no oddjob' but no one cared about the moonraker lady that was smaller 22:43:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8958: Feature: button to reset game settings to their default values https://git.io/JY73K 22:50:59 <andythenorth> oh yeah oddjob 22:51:06 <andythenorth> something something hiding behind crates 22:57:58 <TrueBrain> okay, on linux I can NAT punch the hell out of a TCP connection now 23:00:15 <andythenorth> TB :) 23:00:26 <TrueBrain> also works on Windows :o 23:01:38 <TrueBrain> on one of my test boxes I sometimes get "No route to host", which is really odd .. 23:03:09 <TrueBrain> but it punches the hole just fine 23:08:06 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: it is past 12:00, what are you still doing up? 23:08:14 <TrueBrain> anyone still alive wanting to help test my NAT punching tool? :D 23:09:29 <andythenorth> TB I stayed up 23:09:42 * andythenorth feeling self-destructive and weird :P 23:09:54 <TrueBrain> well, we can try if this works on Mac too, I guess? :P 23:09:55 <andythenorth> wife is getting up at 5.30am so tomorrow will be shit 23:09:59 <andythenorth> I'm here 23:10:08 <andythenorth> what button do I press? 23:13:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8941: Fix: fix nullptr deletion in DeleteWindowById https://git.io/JY7ZZ 23:22:24 <peter1138> NAT punching eh? 23:26:39 <TrueBrain> tnx andythenorth 23:26:44 <TrueBrain> we had some success, but also some failure :P 23:30:25 <TrueBrain> it seems to confuse NATs when you keep using the same port :D 23:31:11 <TrueBrain> ha, now it works :D :D :D :D 23:31:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8958: Feature: button to reset game settings to their default values https://git.io/JY7ng 23:31:25 <TrueBrain> even with MacOS :P 23:31:26 <TrueBrain> hihi 23:32:22 <TrueBrain> now just to do it in C++ :P 23:32:53 <TrueBrain> this really is the low-effort method :) 23:32:55 <andythenorth> oh is this http websockets? 23:33:00 <TrueBrain> no 23:33:02 <TrueBrain> it is STUN 23:33:02 <TrueBrain> sort-of 23:33:04 <andythenorth> ok 23:33:09 <TrueBrain> NAT hole punching 23:33:18 <TrueBrain> so you can join a game with your friend without opening any ports 23:33:22 <andythenorth> websockets are like some ancient history thing that Flash games did 23:33:48 *** glx has quit IRC 23:40:05 <TrueBrain> cannot believe this works with firewalls tbfh :P 23:41:16 <andythenorth> \o/ 23:41:26 <TrueBrain> time to get some zzzz now :D 23:47:43 <andythenorth> bye ! 23:47:48 * andythenorth staying up like an idiot 23:48:27 <spnda> finally after a long time pushed an update for https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=PNDA.nml-language, if anyone actually uses it lol 23:54:23 <FLHerne> spnda: Is that based on the upstream VS highlighting file, or have you managed to reinvent it? 23:54:48 <spnda> I am the one who PR'd that highlighting file, so yes it is 23:55:02 <spnda> Though I have re-run and edited it slightly for this release, so it's not quite up to date 23:55:40 <FLHerne> Ok, no wasted effort then :-)