Log for #openttdcoop on 16th June 2013:
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01:14:20  <nicfer> !players
01:14:23  <PublicServer> nicfer: There are currently no clients connected to the server
01:54:57  <Mazur> Back at my post, I can play wingman iof you need it, nicfer .
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01:59:16  <Mazur> Ah, so that was what I saw flying past my window, Max's terminal.
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07:31:45  <Ryton> !password
07:31:45  <PublicServer> Ryton: elites
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07:33:38  <PublicServer> <Ryton> hmm
07:34:08  <PublicServer> <Ryton> do you think it could help with mail transport ratings, to have mail wagons? :§
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08:32:02  <Vinnie_nl> @clcalc mag 5
08:32:02  <Webster> Vinnie_nl: A maglev Curve Length of 5 (9 half tiles) gives a speed of 432km/h or 270mph
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10:37:27  <Antag> hello
10:39:30  <hylje> j
10:39:32  <hylje> hi
10:46:04  <Antag> how are you today?
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11:12:23  <antag> !password
11:12:23  <PublicServer> antag: elites
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11:17:01  <PublicServer> <Brumi> hello
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11:48:04  <antag> !password
11:48:04  <PublicServer> antag: canned
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13:03:30  <Vinnie_nl> !password
13:03:30  <PublicServer> Vinnie_nl: canned
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13:04:33  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> who edited my sbahn
13:04:42  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> why do waypoints have to be on the end of a reverser?
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15:15:02  <Sylf> I edited the waypoints, Vinnie
15:15:17  <Vinnie_nl> is that needed for them to function?
15:15:58  <Vinnie_nl> just a question because i'm not sure about it
15:15:59  <Sylf> because the waypoint is inside the reverser, it needs to be located in such a way that by the time the train reaches the waypoint, the train needs to be able to access the next destination
15:16:29  <Vinnie_nl> ok
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15:31:03  <mfb-> hi
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16:16:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> max bridge length 8 :(
16:16:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> now I splitted a road bridge, great
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16:18:49  <Joeyy> Hello.
16:18:51  <fonsinchen> !password
16:18:51  <PublicServer> fonsinchen: teeing
16:19:00  <PublicServer> <mfb> hi
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16:20:00  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hello all
16:20:14  <PublicServer> <mfb> hi
16:21:16  <PublicServer> <mfb> I added some text at standard
16:21:55  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> so you didn't disable SRNW yourself?
16:22:13  <PublicServer> <mfb> it is not a SRNW
16:22:15  <PublicServer> <mfb> disable what?
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16:22:21  <PublicServer> <mfb> I did not add orders
16:22:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> I don't think a SRNW works
16:22:33  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> someone did, and im assuming it was not you
16:22:37  <PublicServer> <mfb> at least not in a reasonable way
16:22:55  <PublicServer> <mfb> trains have to have some idea where they are going, and then they should go there
16:23:13  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yeah, SRNW only works if you split collection and drop
16:23:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> and make drop without SRNW
16:23:33  <PublicServer> <mfb> which is... a bit pointless
16:24:03  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> btw my platforms are used
16:24:10  <PublicServer> <mfb> when?
16:24:37  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> whenever SBahn wants to unload a full load
16:24:41  <PublicServer> <mfb> they go the station via turn only I think
16:24:51  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> no thats one train only
16:25:01  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh you have more than one order type
16:25:04  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> ^^
16:25:14  <PublicServer> <mfb> just checked 405 :%
16:25:16  <PublicServer> <mfb> :/
16:26:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
16:26:16  <PublicServer> <mfb> there is a better solution to the reverser
16:26:30  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> let me quote sylf
16:26:41  <Vinnie_nl> "because the waypoint is inside the reverser, it needs to be located in such a way that by the time the train reaches the waypoint, the train needs to be able to access the next destination"
16:26:50  <PublicServer> <mfb> why?
16:26:53  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> that was original
16:26:59  <PublicServer> <mfb> it will just go to the end of the line
16:27:05  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> that was my thought
16:27:16  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but that also kinda makes sense
16:27:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> I did that with waypoints in previous games
16:27:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> works fine
16:27:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> trains do not reverse at waypoints
16:27:32  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> this solution also works
16:27:38  <PublicServer> <mfb> (and you can even let the line end there
16:27:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> ah no
16:27:56  <PublicServer> <mfb> well I think it looks ugly :p
16:28:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> and it costs you two houses if you want to extend the town
16:28:26  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> no i picked this size
16:28:36  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> so extending is not needed in my opinion
16:28:46  <PublicServer> <mfb> by the way: the train always reaches the waypoint before it reverses
16:28:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> due to the finite size of the waypoint
16:33:06  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i kinda wanna make an ICE station for a group of oil rigs
16:33:14  <PublicServer> <mfb> ? :D
16:33:20  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but will they despawn if you don't take oil only passengers
16:33:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> really?
16:33:41  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> we can find out can't we?
16:33:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> well, take oil to nowhere
16:34:11  <mfb-> !rcon set raw_industry_construction 1
16:34:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> only 1/town :(
16:34:36  <PublicServer> <mfb> taber/sexsmith/east coulee are 3 close together
16:34:50  <PublicServer> <mfb> but you can fund a lot of towns, of course
16:35:05  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> there is a broken town in the SLH to
16:35:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> if you get that...
16:36:33  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> first Weaselskin ICE
16:40:43  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> there should be made an easer exansion method for ICE trains
16:41:21  <PublicServer> <mfb> ?
16:41:35  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> creating 14 groups and 14 trains to connect one ICE station
16:41:41  <PublicServer> <mfb> ah, right
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16:43:03  <PublicServer> <mfb> <- creating train groups
16:43:06  <Vinnie_nl> !password
16:43:07  <PublicServer> Vinnie_nl: bisect
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16:43:53  <PublicServer> <mfb> done
16:45:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> min w and sex missing
16:47:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> I usually take trains from another ICE station with the right second destination
16:47:17  <PublicServer> <mfb> so I just have to change the new station
16:47:31  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> might be easier
16:50:49  <PublicServer> <mfb> no, building a reverser with arrow is not standard
16:50:56  <PublicServer> <mfb> it depends on the way the reverser is used
16:51:10  <PublicServer> <mfb> if it is an alternative to a different track, it usually needs an arrow
16:51:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> if it is forced (no other track or order), it is pointless
16:51:20  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> we are not gonna talk about PNT?
16:51:34  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i never use them forced
16:51:36  <PublicServer> <mfb> weasels arrow. pnt has no arrows for that reason
16:51:38  <PublicServer> <mfb> it is forced
16:51:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> well, with an order it is kind of forced
16:51:48  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> PNT uses CL2 in reverser
16:51:55  <PublicServer> <mfb> so what
16:52:02  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> smaller footprint of turn without reverser and also CL2
16:52:05  <PublicServer> <mfb> reverser is slow anyway
16:52:17  <PublicServer> <mfb> the reverser is needed for the depots
16:52:24  <PublicServer> <mfb> or, well, the reverserS
16:52:54  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> no new trains comming
16:53:05  <PublicServer> <mfb> someone thought about a maglev or monorail refit
16:53:16  <PublicServer> <mfb> and the station is older than the current train :p
16:53:18  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> then MIN N needs them to
16:53:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> as long as it is the only exception, it is fine
16:53:42  <PublicServer> <mfb> as all min N trains have a different station as second target
16:54:01  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i seem to recal some other ICE without depots
16:54:07  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but im not that active this game
16:54:11  <Sylf> the trains don't reverse at the waypoints, but the train order breaks.  If the next order is not reacheable by the time the train reaches the waypoint, it starts to skip the orders until it finds the next reacheable order
16:54:29  <PublicServer> <mfb> no it does not skip orders
16:54:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> it is lost for a fraction of a second
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16:54:57  <PublicServer> <mfb> but so are all trains in overflow reversers, for example
16:55:33  <Sylf> maybe it only applies to go-to-depot orders
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16:55:37  <PublicServer> <mfb> I think all ICE exists have depots
16:55:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> min N as exception
16:55:43  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> oke
16:56:04  <mfb-> wtf that made no sense
16:56:09  <mfb-> I think all ICE exits have depots
16:56:13  <mfb-> ah, that!
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17:12:39  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> ICE that does not accept PAX, will it create a problem for Cargo dist
17:12:45  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> ?
17:13:25  <fonsinchen> A station?
17:13:31  <fonsinchen> No, you can have pure transfer stations
17:13:35  <fonsinchen> no problem.
17:13:43  <Vinnie_nl> oke
17:16:36  <PublicServer> <fonso> The construction at ermineskin is nondeterministic
17:16:46  <PublicServer> <mfb> why do we have "passengers to this station" waiting at a station?
17:17:00  <PublicServer> <fonso> Should not happen. Where?
17:17:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> it is always nondeterministic :D
17:17:08  <PublicServer> <mfb> ACM
17:17:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> sorted by destination-source-via
17:17:30  <PublicServer> <mfb> station: planned
17:17:52  <PublicServer> <fonso> In planned, yes there it is possible
17:17:58  <PublicServer> <mfb> ah, those are passengers somewhere else?
17:18:16  <PublicServer> <fonso> That's people arriving at the station. They can be delivered at the station
17:18:22  <PublicServer> <fonso> hence "to this station"
17:18:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> but how to interpret the other numbers with that setting then?
17:19:03  <PublicServer> <fonso> I station:planned you can see all projected flows through the station
17:19:16  <PublicServer> <fonso> part of those are leaving the station and part of those are delivered to the station
17:19:26  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
17:19:41  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> ERM is a giant test area that will either break and do a Vinnie when the town has grown or prove inefficient
17:20:03  <PublicServer> <fonso> Depending on what you want to know you can switch to different modes in the station window
17:20:15  <PublicServer> <fonso> you should probably tell me what you're trying to find out.
17:20:17  <PublicServer> <mfb> interesting
17:20:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> I want to find out if ACM works, and if it will work with implicit orders
17:21:30  <PublicServer> <fonso> Right now ACM is in the red and yellow with several ICE connections. You can see that when opening the cargo flow overlay
17:21:53  <PublicServer> <mfb> where is the cargo flow overlay?
17:21:55  <PublicServer> <fonso> That's not necessarily your problem, though
17:22:01  <PublicServer> <fonso> In the map window
17:22:11  <PublicServer> <fonso> map menu I mean
17:22:17  <PublicServer> <fonso> "Cargo flow legend"
17:22:27  <PublicServer> <fonso> there just press both "all" buttons
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17:22:53  <PublicServer> <mfb> :o
17:23:03  <PublicServer> <fonso> You can also switch "amount:waiting" to something with "via" in front
17:23:17  <PublicServer> <fonso> Then you get a view of the current situation
17:23:40  <PublicServer> <fonso> You'll see that a lot of ppl are waiting to go to MIN N, ECO and SEX
17:23:51  <PublicServer> <mfb> nice
17:23:53  <PublicServer> <fonso> Those are probably the most problematic connections
17:24:17  <PublicServer> <fonso> Where did you want to put the implicit orders?
17:24:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> inside standard (town name)
17:24:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> just remove the explicit orders (does not change much, but is easier to create)
17:25:07  <PublicServer> <fonso> It will probably work
17:25:35  <PublicServer> <fonso> provided that the trains have no other choice than going that same route
17:25:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> they have no choice
17:25:47  <PublicServer> <mfb> good
17:26:02  <PublicServer> <mfb> vinnie: no ships? :D
17:26:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> we can try to allow multiple industries/town
17:26:59  <PublicServer> <mfb> or connect steinhauer oil field
17:27:21  <PublicServer> <fonso> BTW, there also is a link graph mode in smallmap
17:28:01  <PublicServer> <mfb> looks like a real mess :D
17:28:19  <PublicServer> <fonso> I've seen worse
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17:29:58  <PublicServer> <mfb> why do we have doubled lines sometimes?
17:30:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> ah just two directions
17:31:10  <PublicServer> <Brumi> hey
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17:37:07  <PublicServer> <mfb> the graph looks different with implicit orders so far
17:37:21  <PublicServer> <mfb> I get direct connections between ACM and all other stations with implicit orders
17:37:27  <PublicServer> <mfb> but not with explicit orders
17:37:37  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh now they are gone
17:38:35  <PublicServer> <mfb> it would be nice to restrict the graph to specific stations
17:38:44  <fonsinchen> Yes, the link refresher will assume a direct connection while the implicit orders haven't been created, yet. Those direct connections go away if they're not actually served.
17:38:57  <fonsinchen> That would be a nice extension, yes.
17:39:36  <fonsinchen> I have to leave. Good luck with the game.
17:39:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> thanks. bye
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17:46:48  <RT78900> !download
17:46:48  <PublicServer> RT78900: !download autostart|autottd|lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
17:46:48  <PublicServer> RT78900:
17:49:19  <RT78900> !password
17:49:19  <PublicServer> RT78900: inerts
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17:50:16  <PublicServer> <mfb> okay, those labels are like road traffic
17:50:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> on the right side
17:50:20  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> ships are evil
17:50:42  <PublicServer> <mfb> traffic overlays are evil
17:51:00  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> oke
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17:51:08  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> next game we make a spiderweb out of it
17:51:14  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
17:51:14  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> because we can
17:51:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> your plan gets my vote
17:52:03  <PublicServer> <mfb> erm -> acm connection is still bad :(
17:52:16  <PublicServer> <mfb> 3rd train
17:52:35  <PublicServer> <Ryton> Sexsmith: needs mail carriages
17:52:45  <PublicServer> <Ryton> its 100% passenger :s
17:52:59  <PublicServer> <mfb> better 100% pax than 1 mail train in total
17:53:13  <PublicServer> <mfb> ML trains should have both I think
17:53:16  <PublicServer> <Ryton> just pax trainw with each  1 mail wagon?
17:53:38  <PublicServer> <mfb> swk web has a bad mail connection
17:53:40  <mfb-> right
17:53:51  <PublicServer> <Ryton> division is 6/7 and 1/7 more or less
17:54:02  <PublicServer> <Ryton> inso TL4 1 wagon is ideal
17:54:04  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh many of them have that
17:54:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> our biggest town has 53k pax 3k mail
17:54:38  <PublicServer> <mfb> so 1 wagon on TL5 is fine
17:54:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> (~10%)
17:55:10  <PublicServer> <mfb> ERM has 345/48
17:55:16  <PublicServer> <mfb> still fine
17:56:55  <PublicServer> <mfb> okay implicit orders do work
17:57:27  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> so there is a use for implicit orders
17:57:34  <PublicServer> <Brumi> much more convenient at MMO :)
17:57:41  <PublicServer> <Brumi> yay
17:59:39  <PublicServer> <mfb> it could be useful to have two stations in the list
18:02:45  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> train 414 might be a bug, it never unloads passengers and its passengers do not come from a station in its orderlist
18:03:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
18:03:50  <PublicServer> <mfb> now it unloads
18:04:22  <PublicServer> <mfb> +loaded passengers from ERM
18:04:27  <PublicServer> <mfb> at least some of them
18:04:41  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> still plaintearth cargo in there
18:05:07  <PublicServer> <mfb> let's try that
18:07:01  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> either we have some missing ICE connections or cargo takes any route out of a station
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18:07:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> some of them use multiple ML trains
18:07:26  <PublicServer> <mfb> if they think the connection is good
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18:08:04  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but what defines good, is it any connection. because that means entire Ministik area could be a shortcut
18:08:24  <PublicServer> <mfb> probably a green edge in the graph
18:08:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> last train <x days ago?
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18:20:40  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> oh yeah, 63 passengers a month
18:23:06  <PublicServer> <Brumi> see you later
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18:23:12  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> cya
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18:23:38  <PublicServer> <Ryton> oilfields seem to stay atm
18:25:20  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> can't you change max bridgelenght ingame?
18:27:18  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i'm just afraid to try :P
18:27:28  <PublicServer> <Ryton>  :p ;-)
18:27:32  <PublicServer> <Ryton> try in Prozone then? ;-)))
18:28:16  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> I once crashed welcome server and Public server floowed
18:28:22  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> so no thank you
18:28:26  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> folowed
18:28:40  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I crashed the game this month already
18:28:50  <PublicServer> <Ryton> what are the odds that you'll do the same? ;-)
18:28:57  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> 90%
18:29:07  <PublicServer> <Ryton> thats reasonable :p go for itç
18:29:23  <PublicServer> <Ryton> cant you just try with rcon to ask for the number?
18:29:33  <PublicServer> <Ryton> if that works, probably changing will too, no?
18:29:51  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> maybe
18:30:45  <PublicServer> <Ryton> but idk
18:31:01  <PublicServer> <Ryton> btw, does anyone know what the "book icon is about"?
18:31:04  <PublicServer> <Ryton> next to company?
18:31:18  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> one sec i read it somewhere
18:31:52  <PublicServer> <Ryton> aha, found it too:
18:31:54  <PublicServer> <Ryton>
18:33:17  <Vinnie_nl> that looks interesting
18:35:22  <PublicServer> <Ryton> opens perspectives for a tutorial
18:35:49  <PublicServer> <Ryton> or a  life game blog article :p
18:35:55  <PublicServer> <Ryton> live*
18:36:14  <PublicServer> <Ryton> Explaining concepts can be easier with moving trains
18:36:52  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yes but its a watch and learn thing then
18:36:58  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> not build it yourself
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18:39:14  <mfb-> you cannot change the setting in multiplayer as far as I know
18:39:36  <mfb-> so you would have to download it, change it, and load it to the server again
18:40:08  <Vinnie_nl> its only your sbahn :P
18:41:14  <PublicServer> *** RT78900 has left the game (leaving)
18:41:30  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I'm out, cya
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18:48:17  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> do you remember adding ICE trains to HST?
18:55:31  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> im off cya
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19:39:13  <Joeyy> Guys, I'm new to OpenTTD. What do I have to prioritize when I start a new map?
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19:56:20  <TWerkhoven> making money
20:13:39  <Joeyy> How?
20:14:03  <mfb-> transport cargo from industries to other industries where that cargo is accepted
20:14:31  <mfb->
20:21:09  <AnsonMobil> as absolute beginner, you can cheat money (in offline games) and then experiment how to build something, get used to station and track layouts etc...  and then do a real game
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21:28:24  <fonsinchen> !password
21:28:24  <PublicServer> fonsinchen: sugars
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22:42:56  <DaRabman> .
22:46:13  <mfb->    ..
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