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00:04:30 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 00:33:09 *** Seberoth2 has quit IRC 05:47:28 <Brot6> OpenTTD-GUI - Revision 15417:51999adaf273: First version of a lean main menu (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openttd-gui/repository/revisions/51999adaf273 06:11:13 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 06:21:18 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 06:21:47 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 06:40:05 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 523:d4554eb2bb58: Doc: Add internal links to cargo classes (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/d4554eb2bb58 07:47:47 *** Alberth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:05:14 *** Seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:20:01 *** dan123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:21:32 *** dan123 has quit IRC 09:27:12 <Brot6> #openttdcoop - Feature #1053 (New): OpenTTD Patch Queue (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1053 09:35:07 <Brot6> repository /home/ottdc/hg-repos/test-mq registered in Redmine with url /home/ottdc/hg-repos/test-mq 09:35:07 <Brot6> repository /home/ottdc/hg-repos/test-mq created 09:56:14 *** Seberoth has quit IRC 09:56:55 *** Seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:49:01 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:49:07 <Alberth> oi! 10:50:35 <planetmaker> ho :-) 10:54:53 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:56:16 <Ammler> planetmaker: help me with #1053 :-P 10:57:05 <planetmaker> :-) 10:57:53 <Ammler> maybe creating a file in .devzone: mqof 10:59:22 <Ammler> then we clone the repo mqof, go to the repo and run "hg qinit && hg init .hg/patches" 10:59:30 <Ammler> oh no 10:59:52 <Ammler> we symlink the repo to .hg/patches of the main repo 11:02:00 <Ammler> does hg qinit more than just creating the folder .hg/patches? 11:03:50 <Alberth> in my hg, the command is deprecated 11:05:35 <Ammler> hg init --mq 11:06:21 <Ammler> I see 11:06:33 <Alberth> simply using qnew also works 11:06:37 <Ammler> hg init --mq does a bit more than just create the folder 11:07:37 <Alberth> creating the status and series files, no doubt 11:08:19 <Ammler> unversioned mq doesn't make much sense for the DevZone 11:08:32 <Alberth> :) 11:09:00 <Alberth> I don't use versioned queues, too confusing :p 11:09:19 <Ammler> :-) 11:10:01 <Ammler> I really have troubles to automate it on the DevZone 11:10:30 <Ammler> since I want it working without ssh 11:12:14 <Alberth> I am not sure you'd ever want to share such a queue 11:13:19 <Ammler> yes, we do 11:13:25 <Alberth> ie 2 people hacking in a sequence of patches, and not getting conflicts? 11:13:49 <Alberth> but perhaps it depends on the project data 11:13:51 <Ammler> why should that more conflict than hacking on same repo? 11:14:07 <Ammler> repo branch* 11:14:35 <Ammler> one patch is like a branch 11:14:36 <Alberth> my patches in a queue usually all make changes to the same files 11:15:19 <Alberth> ie it is a small change in a series to get a feature in 11:15:30 <Ammler> bitbucket does support mq too 14:00:57 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfmanager <-- any idea, Ammler 14:03:24 <Ammler> planetmaker: http://old.dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfmanager 14:04:06 <Ammler> I'll check the logs 14:04:30 <Brot6> test: abort: push creates new remote heads on branch 'default'! 14:18:10 <Ammler> fixed 14:18:18 <Ammler> (and reported) 14:18:26 <Ammler> planetmaker: ^ 14:18:36 <planetmaker> and reported? 14:18:55 <Ammler> at redmine.org 14:19:15 <Ammler> well, it is a bug of the redmine-mq we use 14:19:54 <Ammler> http://www.redmine.org/issues/4455 14:19:57 <Webster> Title: Redmine - Patch #4455: Mercurial overhaul - Redmine (at www.redmine.org) 14:20:37 <planetmaker> ah, ok :-) 14:21:20 <Ammler> my Akregator doesn't work anymore :-( 14:21:43 <Ammler> I guess, I should update to KDE 4.5 14:21:56 <Ammler> or 4.4 14:56:11 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:02:48 *** Doorslammer has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:17:24 *** Doorslammer has quit IRC 15:49:04 <Brot6> mode change on /home/ottdc/hg-repos/test-mq 16:18:49 <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: update from r104 to r106 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/newgrf_makefile/nightlies/r106 16:19:34 <Brot6> nml: update from r522 to r523 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/nightlies/r523 16:20:32 <Brot6> swedishrails: update from r118 to r123 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/swedishrails/nightlies/r123 16:20:34 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r559), 32bpp-extra (r36), airportsplus (r50), bros (r12), comic-houses (r70), firs (r1011), fish (r375), heqs (r320), nmts (r16), nutracks (r79), ogfxplus (r32), opengfx (r461), openmsx (r78), opensfx (r94), snowlinemod (r12), worldairlinersset (r648) 16:46:52 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 17:29:51 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 524:ca7da79340ad: Codechange: Format the NFO header to a somewhat... (Alberth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/ca7da79340ad 17:41:00 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1054 (New): Incomplete cargo chains prior to certain dates -... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1054 17:41:00 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1055 (New): Strange availability date behaviour (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1055 17:41:00 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1056 (New): Input cargo discarded for low input values (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1056 17:43:08 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1057 (New): Some industries shouldn't be built above snowline (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1057 17:43:08 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Bug #1058 (New): Aluminium Plant - restore snow (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1058 17:47:35 *** FooBar_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:47:56 <FooBar_> Hi all! 17:48:09 <Alberth> andythenorth: ^^ 17:48:15 <Alberth> FooBar_: hi! 17:48:45 <planetmaker> FooBar! 17:49:03 <FooBar_> Let me announce that I'm officially returning to developing newgrfs again. At least for this summer (after that we'll see...) 17:49:11 <planetmaker> :-) 17:49:46 <Brot6> OpenTTD-GUI - Revision 15418:83be00935f99: - Codechange: Increase length for revision string to 2... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openttd-gui/repository/revisions/83be00935f99 17:49:46 <Brot6> OpenTTD-GUI - Revision 15419:23e8be4f117c: - Change: Move difficulty settings to the advanced set... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openttd-gui/repository/revisions/23e8be4f117c 17:52:17 <andythenorth> Hi FooBar_ 17:52:19 <andythenorth> :P 17:52:27 <FooBar_> hi andy 17:52:46 <planetmaker> andythenorth: became quite a newgrf wizard, FooBar_ :-) 17:53:01 <andythenorth> planetmaker became a nml speed-demon 17:53:15 <andythenorth> what shall we make? 17:53:18 <FooBar_> I know, I checked some bits of FIRS source recently and was stunned 17:53:23 <planetmaker> :-) 17:53:42 <andythenorth> I worry I'm the only one who will ever understand it :P 17:53:46 <andythenorth> especially the production code 17:54:01 <FooBar_> yes, I didn't look into that part :P 17:54:09 <andythenorth> Shall we make something now? 17:54:46 <planetmaker> Well... there's some things which would good IMHO: more FIRS. a re-vamp of TBRS come to my mind first 17:54:50 <FooBar_> What do we want to make? I have this make thingy sitting here, maybe I should see if that still works first :P 17:55:08 <planetmaker> FooBar_: if you pull... it should 17:55:12 <andythenorth> maybe check you have up to date FIRS and can build? 17:55:26 <FooBar_> I wouldn't go into bridges as long as there's no "newbridges" support... 17:55:59 <andythenorth> I would really like to get to FIRS 1.0 and have a break :) 17:56:06 <FooBar_> I was thinking maybe there are some FIRS industries that need slicing and all, maybe I can start there to get the hang of it again 17:56:21 <andythenorth> FooBar_: let me see 17:56:34 <Ammler> FB! 17:56:42 <Ammler> :-) 17:56:48 <FooBar_> Ammler! 17:57:01 <FooBar_> yes, I know, long time no see :P 17:57:18 <Ammler> hehe, shall we reactivate your bouncer account? 17:57:27 <andythenorth> FooBar_: everything currently drawn is sliced 17:57:51 <andythenorth> I can think of three nice sub-projects.... 17:58:05 <Ammler> FooBar_: it will be nice to have windows newgrf dev back 17:58:08 <FooBar_> Ammler: maybe later, but thanks for the offer 17:58:15 <andythenorth> (1) sort out parameters as per http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1028 17:58:22 <andythenorth> (2) start adding animation 17:58:36 <andythenorth> including restoring default animations currently missing 17:58:41 <andythenorth> (3) construction states 17:58:54 <Ammler> FooBar_: maybe you like also to take a look on nml 17:59:01 <FooBar_> construction stages probably need to be dranw first, right? 17:59:14 <andythenorth> yes and no 17:59:20 <andythenorth> they could be coded with generic tiles 18:00:11 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 525:4ea8d402b504: Codechange: Introduce NML output wrapper class. (Alberth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/4ea8d402b504 18:00:13 <Ammler> we already talked about moving opengfx to nml, as grfcodec gets outdated/unworking 18:00:14 <FooBar_> Ammler: I want to redo my transrapid set anyways, and was thinking of looking into nml for that 18:00:45 * andythenorth is thinking of moving FISH to nml 18:00:48 <FooBar_> andythenorth: we have generic tiles for that? 18:00:49 <planetmaker> You could basically copy the SERails code for that, FooBar_ 18:00:59 <planetmaker> Just use different sprites... 18:01:04 <andythenorth> FooBar_: no but we can change the action 1 later 18:01:07 <FooBar_> planetmaker: thanks, but I don't learn by copying :P 18:01:13 <planetmaker> It's... *mostly* simple 18:01:14 <Ammler> hehe 18:01:24 <andythenorth> hmm 18:01:27 <planetmaker> FooBar_: depends upon how you define 'copying' ;-) 18:01:31 <andythenorth> other nice FIRS tasks I can think of.... 18:01:40 <andythenorth> building some industries on slopes 18:01:45 <FooBar_> planetmaker: ctrl+c followed by ctrl+v ;) 18:01:55 <Ammler> hg clone :-P 18:01:57 <planetmaker> but... I actually would like to see you part in FIRS (again), too 18:02:01 <andythenorth> industries on slopes would include forest, some farms 18:02:13 * andythenorth would like some help with FIRS, it's getting overwhelming 18:02:17 <FooBar_> Industries on slopes would be good, as that actually improves gameplay considerably 18:02:20 <planetmaker> For two reasons: a) it'll make andy happy and b) it'll help the set get along faster :-) 18:02:31 <andythenorth> and Kogut will stop asking for it :P 18:02:41 <andythenorth> Kogut's feedback is generally on the nail, if a bit strange 18:03:07 <andythenorth> There are also a bunch of design issues I haven't been able to figure out 18:03:13 <andythenorth> - farms above snowline 18:03:20 <andythenorth> other industries above snowline 18:03:31 <andythenorth> production code for fishing harbour 18:04:09 <andythenorth> changing fruit plantation appearance to suit climate 18:04:40 <FooBar_> Slownine needs some action2 stuff in the placement code I believe 18:05:04 <andythenorth> It's more a question of 'should it be allowed or not'? 18:05:21 <andythenorth> I thought about it for ages and decided I don't really care either way 18:05:33 <andythenorth> but changing snowline makes it more complicated 18:05:41 <planetmaker> andythenorth: farms: depends. animal farms: yes. arrable farms: no 18:05:46 <planetmaker> other industries: yes 18:05:48 <andythenorth> good answer 18:06:03 <andythenorth> so I build an arable farm below summer snowline. What happens in winter? 18:06:03 <FooBar_> I think it shouldn't be allowed to build one above the snowline, but that the variable snow line should be supported, e.g. 0 production if snow 18:06:19 <andythenorth> but farms have grain silos... 18:06:30 <planetmaker> andythenorth: that's a good question. You can go the easy way and just have it continue to produce 18:06:35 <andythenorth> preferred route 18:06:35 <planetmaker> Or you can do it as ECS and stop 18:06:40 <planetmaker> I find the latter a bit annoying 18:06:42 <andythenorth> not preferred 18:06:47 <planetmaker> yup 18:06:57 <andythenorth> can cause loss of secondary industry 18:07:02 <FooBar_> We need a moose farm for above the snow line 18:07:02 <andythenorth> in rare cases 18:07:45 <andythenorth> so for a location in between high and low snowline...I can construct farm in Summer, but not Winter? 18:08:19 <FooBar_> yes, because it isn't useful to construct something that cannot produce at that moment 18:08:24 <planetmaker> andythenorth: a variable snow line is not exposed to newgrfs 18:08:37 <andythenorth> no 18:08:39 <planetmaker> so you can query the snowline height and that's it 18:08:41 <FooBar_> but then I guess you're right about the 0 production 18:08:42 <andythenorth> yup 18:09:07 <andythenorth> so I get production from the farm above snowline, but I can't build it? 18:09:18 <planetmaker> neither 18:09:26 <planetmaker> the snow line is a fixed thing. 18:09:30 <Alberth> andythenorth: OpenTTD verifies site of farm as 2 tiles below highest snowline 18:09:39 <planetmaker> only the visible snow line is a changing thing 18:10:19 <FooBar_> Maybe we should stick to the 2 tiles below highest snow line and just don't care about production in winter 18:10:20 <Alberth> at least for default industry :) 18:10:20 <andythenorth> so we prevent farms above permanent snowline, allow below 18:10:27 <andythenorth> FooBar_: what you just said 18:10:35 <FooBar_> good, then that's settled 18:10:38 <andythenorth> "go, code that" :P 18:10:50 <andythenorth> there are hooks for cb28 (placement) in clustering already 18:10:57 <FooBar_> "I'm not coding anything today" ;) 18:11:02 <andythenorth> boo 18:11:15 <planetmaker> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0GeneralVariables#Snow_line_height_table_10_ <-- at least that's how I understood this so far. 18:11:20 <FooBar_> it's like 34 degrees centigrade here, that's not coding weather 18:11:21 <planetmaker> Maybe, hopefully I'm wrong 18:11:55 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I actually hope you're right 18:11:58 <andythenorth> simpler 18:12:00 <planetmaker> [20:10] <andythenorth> so we prevent farms above permanent snowline, allow below <-- sounds like where European farms are anyway 18:12:11 <andythenorth> I suspect I'm limited to checking only current state of tile 18:12:19 <FooBar_> I suppose we cannot provide snowed-over fields? 18:12:28 <andythenorth> FooBar_: strange you should mention that 18:12:31 <Alberth> I happened to reject issue FS#3888 about that issue a few days ago 18:12:31 <planetmaker> :-) 18:12:37 <andythenorth> @seen frosch123 18:12:37 <Webster> andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttdcoop.devzone 5 days, 19 hours, 46 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <frosch123> count again :) 18:12:59 <planetmaker> Alberth: about snowy fields? 18:13:12 <Alberth> building of farms below snowline 18:13:18 <FooBar_> andythenorth: not strange, I know you suggested the arbitrary tiles thing way back 18:13:36 <andythenorth> frosch is working on something 18:13:50 <FooBar_> sweet 18:14:02 <Alberth> andythenorth: he was here, but left 1.5 hours ago 18:14:10 <planetmaker> oh, I read... 18:14:14 <andythenorth> when I say 'working' I mean he started a patch 18:14:23 <andythenorth> which works to a great extent, but has some problems 18:15:22 <andythenorth> FooBar_: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/farmtiles.txt 18:15:32 <planetmaker> I wouldn't entirely hold my breath for it, though I indeed would like to see something like that :-) 18:15:47 <FooBar_> I like the title "new farmtiles or so" 18:16:51 <andythenorth> Farms in desert I have no problem with. Some players do though 18:18:39 <andythenorth> I reckon provide a water pump tile and everything is ok 18:20:14 <FooBar_> Farms in desert are fine. Do we have water? Maybe they should accept water then as a production booster 18:20:40 <andythenorth> I wondered that 18:20:57 <andythenorth> It's a boring cargo though :) 18:21:09 <andythenorth> no-one trucks water into a farm in a sane world 18:21:22 * andythenorth thinks 'canals' could equal irrigation 18:21:51 * andythenorth invents a new boat labelled "right to extract 100k litres of water" 18:21:58 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1059 (New): Farm snowline dependency (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1059 18:22:05 <FooBar_> I guess you're right 18:22:10 <andythenorth> it's invisible and travels by water. when it arrives, you get 100k litres of water :o 18:22:30 <andythenorth> Think it might be a step too far :) 18:23:19 <FooBar_> Well, if it needs water to arrive, you already have water... 18:24:10 <andythenorth> make farms locate near water...player has to build canals / channels? 18:24:15 <andythenorth> (not a serious suggestion) 18:24:31 <FooBar_> maybe not serious, but I was thinking the same 18:24:57 <FooBar_> Don't know if a canal qualifies as water for the industry placement code 18:25:20 <andythenorth> we can seek neighbouring tiles and check their type 18:25:32 <andythenorth> could be quite intensive 18:26:13 <FooBar_> Maybe check if farm is built in desert and if so, provide a small oasis as industry tiles with it. 18:26:34 <andythenorth> that sort of thing seems the best solution for gameplay 18:27:03 <andythenorth> hmm 18:27:04 <planetmaker> [20:24] <andythenorth> make farms locate near water...player has to build canals / channels? <-- nah, not really 18:27:09 <andythenorth> nah 18:27:10 <planetmaker> There's no reasonable scale in TTD 18:27:12 <andythenorth> not really 18:27:22 * andythenorth ponders fishing harbour code 18:27:36 <andythenorth> several issues.... 18:28:02 <andythenorth> (1) fishing harbour is really a primary industry and should produce something irrespective of input 18:28:13 <andythenorth> (2) fishing harbour produces food, and locates in towns 18:28:23 <andythenorth> so we have a primary industry right where the demand is 18:28:30 <andythenorth> barely any transport requirements 18:28:45 <FooBar_> let me see our cargo list... 18:29:15 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 526:55d627db357f: Codechange: Handle nml output files also with t... (Alberth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/55d627db357f 18:29:27 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/cargos 18:29:28 <Webster> Title: TT Foundry: Pixel Creations for OpenTTD (at tt-foundry.com) 18:29:56 <FooBar_> thanks, but I already found that myself :P 18:30:04 <FooBar_> I know where it is, you know ;) 18:30:12 <andythenorth> :) 18:30:31 <FooBar_> It appears fish isn't used any more? 18:31:21 <FooBar_> Simplest solution to me is to just locate the fishing harbour outside of a town 18:31:44 <FooBar_> Although that isn't entirely realistic... 18:31:47 <andythenorth> that is one solution 18:31:54 <andythenorth> it looks fricking awesome in town though :) 18:32:07 <Alberth> inside a town prevents use of a train :p 18:32:20 <andythenorth> good 18:32:28 <Alberth> so you are forced to use trucks and drive to another town first ? 18:33:00 <Alberth> or at least to the other side of the town :p 18:33:04 <andythenorth> at least 18:33:08 <andythenorth> or supply inland towns 18:35:00 <FooBar_> maybe reintroduce the fishing grounds and get ships to transport fish from the grounds to the harbour. At least that's how it seems to be done on deadliest catch... 18:35:25 <andythenorth> that's what I thought, but it became a holy war :P 18:35:30 <FooBar_> then the fishing harbour produces food and it's up to the player if it wants to transport this over short or long distance 18:35:37 <welshdragon> PeterT: what version does Simulation Nation server use? 18:36:06 <FooBar_> andy, I think we can win that war ;) 18:36:26 <Alberth> welshdragon: he doesn't have an own channel for that kind of questions? 18:36:28 <FooBar_> Especially if we're doing these economies 18:36:41 <andythenorth> I want to restore the Fish cargo and transport it to the Harbour which processes it 18:36:49 <andythenorth> then I don't have to draw a processor :) 18:36:54 <FooBar_> Then we can just create an economy that /we/ like 18:37:14 <FooBar_> see, added benefits! 18:37:23 <andythenorth> I can see one weird thing 18:37:38 <andythenorth> I could drop off fish at a dock and move it by train to a harbour 18:37:46 <welshdragon> Alberth: i don't know 18:37:47 <andythenorth> which is rather like 'coals to newcastle' 18:37:54 <welshdragon> and here seemed the best channel to ask 18:38:03 <welshdragon> as it's OpenTTD related 18:38:54 <FooBar_> yes, that's possible, but it's up to the player not to do that. I sometimes put a train station on some artificial land right next to an oil rig, just because it's convenient 18:38:59 <andythenorth> ignoring the strange transport possibility....Fishing Harbour could then accept MNSP only 18:39:08 <andythenorth> it would become a secondary industry 18:39:11 <FooBar_> true 18:39:19 <andythenorth> which is fine 18:39:35 <andythenorth> I don't like 'Food' getting produced directly by a primary industry 18:39:58 <andythenorth> I've been unhappy with the concept even though the graphics rock. That's why it's not in the releases 18:40:11 <andythenorth> It was a *lot* of code as well :P 18:40:14 <FooBar_> me neither, and I like the idea of fishing ground. It makes using ships also more interesting gameplay 18:40:15 * Alberth ponders how #openttdcoop.devzone is OpenTTD related :) 18:40:44 <andythenorth> FooBar_: we have 3 or 4 free slots, so Fish could be restored 18:41:04 <FooBar_> Alberth: you can't say it's unrelated either. If there wasn't something like OpenTTD, this channel wouldn't be either... 18:41:22 <FooBar_> andythenorth: I'm in favour of fish 18:41:29 <FooBar_> what's that... favourish? 18:41:45 <andythenorth> Do Fishing Grounds accept anything? 18:41:51 <Alberth> FooBar_: true 18:41:56 <Alberth> food :p 18:42:00 <andythenorth> There are two ways to do Fishing Grounds 18:42:07 <Alberth> fish food, to be precise ;) 18:42:08 <FooBar_> Alberth: I was about to say that... 18:42:09 <andythenorth> (1) it's just a place at sea and ships go there to load 18:42:26 <andythenorth> (2) it's other boats, and the player is running the transfer boats 18:42:32 <andythenorth> (this happens in some fisheries) 18:43:21 <FooBar_> I'm in favour of (1). 18:44:07 <FooBar_> It also should move around a lot, but I don't know if that makes for fun gameplay, having to readjust orders every time... 18:44:54 <andythenorth> what, have it close often? :P 18:45:00 <andythenorth> maybe not :) 18:45:21 <andythenorth> if we had a state machine for the station.... 18:45:23 <FooBar_> it would be realistic, but not fun 18:45:57 <FooBar_> well, the state machine would be fun, not the closing 18:47:12 <andythenorth> state machines might come one day 18:47:16 * andythenorth waves at Yexo 18:47:54 <FooBar_> the state machine would actually be awesome, have the ship follow a string of pots... 18:48:00 <planetmaker> [20:44] <FooBar_> It also should move around a lot, but I don't know if that makes for fun gameplay, having to readjust orders every time... <-- that'd be a pain 18:48:20 <planetmaker> but you could use a BIG industry with many water tiles and some animation that fish appear here and there 18:48:33 <planetmaker> it could even be separated tiles so that ships can actually drive through 18:48:35 <andythenorth> planetmaker: it would block ship routes and thus annoy players 18:48:40 <andythenorth> or maybe not 18:48:41 <FooBar_> sometimes realisticness isn't the way to go. Ask belugas... 18:48:41 <planetmaker> :-) 18:49:12 <planetmaker> not realistic. But like four 2x2 things with a + in between for crossing 18:49:16 <andythenorth> FooBar_: I'll add a ticket for 'restore fishing grounds' 18:49:19 <planetmaker> harbour is in the middle for boats 18:49:25 * andythenorth is glad to have a collaborator 18:49:29 <planetmaker> "harbour" 18:49:36 <FooBar_> I think there can be some ship routes through the industry, like we have these holes in land based industries as well 18:50:06 <FooBar_> colharbourator? 18:52:05 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1060 (New): Restore Fishing Grounds industry (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1060 18:52:05 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1061 (New): Restore Fish cargo (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1061 18:52:08 <FooBar_> why do we have 4 pages of issues and 90% of them with priority 'normal'? I don't know where to look first :P 18:52:29 <andythenorth> I never bother prioritising much 18:52:42 <andythenorth> I just run a backlog, and then pull in what's interesting / essential 18:52:53 <andythenorth> (and 'essential' mostly means 'interesting') 18:53:10 <andythenorth> it's how we run scrum iterations for work 18:53:18 <andythenorth> except for the client requirements :P 18:53:38 <andythenorth> they dictate 'interesting' in the work scenario 18:53:42 <Alberth> FooBar_: just pick the first interesting one :) 18:53:45 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1062 (New): Change Fishing Harbour to secondary industry (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1062 18:54:18 <andythenorth> FooBar_: I need to add some to the 0.3 release 18:54:19 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/versions/show/92 18:54:32 <andythenorth> My priority is parameters, for which I need planetmaker :) 18:54:48 <andythenorth> we could work on a 0.3 and 0.4 release concurrently 18:55:09 <andythenorth> I want to get 0.3 done fast, and have it be 100% save game safe with 0.2 18:55:41 <andythenorth> maybe 0.3 should be a branch? 18:55:56 <planetmaker> :-) could be 18:56:00 <andythenorth> or 0.4 18:56:06 <planetmaker> 0.3 rather 18:56:08 <andythenorth> I'm no good at deciding VCS issues 18:56:14 <planetmaker> you want the trunk to be not the branch 18:56:15 <FooBar_> I wouldn't do branching. Merging is annoying if you ask me 18:56:40 <andythenorth> the parameter stuff will be very self-contained, should be possible to merge 18:56:49 <andythenorth> kind of depends how soon planetmaker can help with it :) 18:56:57 <planetmaker> well. Where's the parameter issue? 18:57:07 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1028 18:57:14 <planetmaker> thanks 18:57:17 * planetmaker reads 18:57:33 <andythenorth> planetmaker: it needs a fair bit of varaction 2 support in templates, but it's not complex 18:57:46 <andythenorth> just a lot of branching 18:58:01 <planetmaker> hm, yes 18:58:15 <planetmaker> Do the industries already use the parameters in their varaction2? 18:58:23 <andythenorth> in certain cases 18:58:26 <FooBar_> If you would excuse me, I have to get my notebook's power cord... 18:58:30 <planetmaker> ok 18:58:38 <andythenorth> Debug parameter is used by some templates for example 18:59:36 <andythenorth> some templates will need appropriate closure cbs adding 18:59:43 <andythenorth> we can probably template some of it 19:00:36 *** planetmaker has left #openttdcoop.devzone 19:01:14 <andythenorth> ^ :o 19:01:36 <FooBar_> he probably forgot his power cord... 19:01:49 <andythenorth> :) 19:07:11 *** planetmaker has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:07:19 <planetmaker> hm... I did leave? :S 19:07:42 <FooBar_> yes, so it seems 19:09:24 <planetmaker> oh well... 19:10:47 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 527:eff4fc938a52: Fix [#1041]: Open output files after parsing in... (Alberth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/eff4fc938a52 19:12:03 <planetmaker> andythenorth: is the *supply_limit parameter still used? 19:12:12 <andythenorth> nope 19:12:14 <andythenorth> no limits 19:12:23 <andythenorth> there's a ticket to remove any cruft for it 19:12:23 <Alberth> hmm, redmine does not close the issue :( 19:12:27 <andythenorth> somewhere 19:12:37 <planetmaker> ok, so there's kinda... old code with parameters 19:15:00 <andythenorth> do you fancy eliminating it? I thought I'd killed most of it maybe I missed some 19:17:39 * andythenorth afk 19:19:36 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1041 (Closed): open output file after parsing input (Alberth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1041#change-2762 19:20:57 *** Seberoth has quit IRC 19:29:24 <FooBar_> is it me or is the makefile much slower than it used to be? 19:31:02 <FooBar_> and my grep doesn't have a --o option 19:31:12 <Ammler> hmm 19:31:31 <FooBar_> I wonder when it will stop giving me that warning... 19:31:32 <Ammler> you might consider to switch to cygwin 19:32:27 <FooBar_> I'll see if there's an upgrade for whatever is providing my grep first 19:32:49 <Ammler> mingw seems to be quite acient 19:33:06 <FooBar_> msys is providing grep here 19:33:18 <Rubidium> guess it depends on the version 19:33:32 <Rubidium> http://lunac.sourceforge.net/ <- might do the right thing (tm) 19:33:33 <Webster> Title: Luna C/C++ (at lunac.sourceforge.net) 19:34:03 <Rubidium> although, it's still using a quite old version of msys... at least you've got a more recent version of GCC 19:34:26 <andythenorth> FooBar_: FIRS make file got *much* slower and then quite a lot faster :) 19:35:19 <Alberth> disk cache? 19:35:20 <FooBar_> Rubidium: it says it includes msys 1.0.11; that's what I have installed now so I suppose it's the same grep... 19:36:15 <Rubidium> then try msys 1.0.14-ish? Or just the newer grep from the msys/mingw sf page 19:39:32 <FooBar_> Great, they make stuff for Windows and then use some exotic lzma compression... 19:39:40 *** Seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:39:48 <Rubidium> yeah 19:40:03 <Rubidium> it's one big huge mess; I'm happy I found lunac 19:40:12 <FooBar_> ah, 7-zip understands that... 19:40:31 <Alberth> another exotic format :p 19:40:33 <Ammler> that is main format of 7zip, afaik 19:41:58 <Alberth> Ammler: r527 did not close issue #1041, is that correct? 19:42:34 <FooBar_> great, now I'm missing a msys-intl-8.dll... 19:42:43 <Ammler> Alberth: yes, you need the close keywords for that 19:42:59 <Ammler> without [], it would happen automatically 19:43:13 <FooBar_> Ammler: the guide says different 19:43:26 <Ammler> FooBar_: about? 19:43:43 <Alberth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/Writing_Commit_Messages says otherwise indeed 19:43:56 <FooBar_> yes, that one 19:43:59 <Ammler> Fix [#000] doesn't close 19:44:03 <Ammler> but Fix #000 does 19:44:22 <andythenorth> planetmaker: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=48636&p=887295#p887295 19:44:23 <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - OpenTTD Needs a new name (at www.tt-forums.net) 19:44:59 * Alberth removes the [ ] things from the page 19:45:01 <Ammler> maybe it would work, if we change the keywords to ,fix [, 19:45:37 <Alberth> fine by me, as long as the wiki text and reality match 19:45:54 <Ammler> we tried to make it similar to openttd 19:46:01 <Ammler> but then autoclose wouldn't work 19:46:27 <Ammler> IMO, we could mention tickets without [] and revisions with () 19:46:30 <Alberth> I can simply add "(closes #xyz)" at the end of the message 19:46:37 <Ammler> yes 19:46:45 <Ammler> another possibility 19:48:30 <Ammler> you should just agree in the projects 19:48:50 <Ammler> [21:44] * Alberth removes the [ ] things from the page <-- fine with me :-) 19:49:16 <Alberth> at least the wiki then matches reality :) 19:49:35 <Ammler> I just added those :-) 19:49:46 <Ammler> seems the wiki doesn't have a revert :-) 19:50:11 <Alberth> why did you add them? 19:50:45 <Alberth> ie it is fine to add them for linking/referencing, but not in the section about auto-close imho 19:51:09 <Alberth> since that does not work :p 19:51:14 <Ammler> reverted 19:51:21 <Alberth> nice, thanks 19:51:25 <Ammler> well, you should use it either always or never 19:53:07 <Alberth> having a cross-reference is always good, auto-close is not that needed imho. But let's wait until Yexo decides :) 19:53:53 <Yexo> about what do I have to decide? 19:55:35 <Alberth> commit messages style, "Fix [#XYZ]: foo" does not auto-close the issue 19:55:51 <Yexo> about the commit messages? I don't really care, I've used "Fix (closes #000): foo" in the past to autoclose a few issues 19:55:58 <Yexo> but I've also forgot it a few times 19:56:14 <Alberth> so we could do "Fix #XYZ: ..." or ....(closes #XYZ) 19:56:26 <Yexo> "Fix #00 (r123): foo" is fine with me 19:56:37 <Yexo> where both #00 and r123 are optional 19:56:59 <Alberth> Ammler: our leader has spoken :p 19:57:08 <Ammler> so it is fine as it is 19:57:22 <Alberth> is Fix #xyz accepted? 19:57:31 <Ammler> we just would need to fix the hook 19:57:39 <Ammler> currently it doesn't work at all :-P 19:58:38 <planetmaker> [21:44] <andythenorth> planetmaker: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=48636&p=887295#p887295 <-- :-) nice 19:58:39 <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - OpenTTD Needs a new name (at www.tt-forums.net) 19:59:00 <planetmaker> but actually... maybe the landscape buttons should be kept. And if it's only for the sake of tradition ;-) 19:59:15 <andythenorth> they should be kept. 19:59:31 <planetmaker> Can I get a mockup with them, please? :-) 19:59:43 <planetmaker> Dunno... maybe as top line above what you showed there? 19:59:58 <Alberth> good night 20:00:03 <andythenorth> planetmaker: ok 20:00:08 <andythenorth> maybe tonight, maybe tomorrow 20:00:09 <planetmaker> g'night Alberth 20:00:22 <Yexo> night Alberth 20:00:24 <planetmaker> andythenorth: well... basically I need some good way to arange things. 20:00:28 <planetmaker> I'm not sure how so far 20:00:32 *** Alberth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 20:00:38 <planetmaker> The actual screenshot I posted looks IMHO ugly 20:00:41 <planetmaker> ugly like hell 20:01:19 <planetmaker> yours is already a lot better. But it looks... unfinished 20:01:19 <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/for_pm.diff 20:01:36 <planetmaker> :-) 20:01:55 <planetmaker> Looks good :-) 20:02:01 <Rubidium> it "only" needs some string updates 20:02:14 <planetmaker> hm... tooltips? 20:02:27 <Rubidium> yep 20:02:42 <planetmaker> hm... still 28°C in my flat. Same as on balcony :S 20:02:53 <Rubidium> which is where I can't be bothered to look at 20:03:16 <planetmaker> :-) So... that's a thinly veiled request to do that? :-) 20:03:34 <Rubidium> nope 20:03:34 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'll work something up. Probably not going to draw tonight 20:03:38 <andythenorth> had 4 hours sleep 20:04:21 <andythenorth> GUI design needs a brain that works :) 20:04:22 <planetmaker> no worries, andythenorth :-) 20:04:33 <planetmaker> I'm not at the point to re-design the main menu anyway 20:04:50 <planetmaker> first there needs to move some of the functionality to a place where it can be accessed outside of it 20:05:56 <planetmaker> Rubidium: well, I'll do it nevertheless 20:07:31 <Rubidium> not sure whether I'll read/see it in the next 24 hours 20:09:29 <planetmaker> ok 20:09:32 <FooBar_> andythenorth: how long does it take your computer to make remake FIRS? 20:09:49 <andythenorth> FooBar_: let me see 20:11:53 * andythenorth discovers the 'time' command 20:11:56 <andythenorth> real 0m12.271s 20:11:58 <andythenorth> from clean 20:12:23 <andythenorth> FooBar_: how long does it take yours? 20:12:30 <FooBar_> ah, that is way better than what I'm experiencing now... 20:12:55 <FooBar_> after about 5 minutes it now fails at "no rule to make target firs.grf" 20:13:06 <andythenorth> hmm 20:13:16 <andythenorth> either you're missing files (could be my fault) 20:13:23 <andythenorth> or there's an issue with dependencies 20:13:26 <andythenorth> or something else : 20:13:26 <FooBar_> maybe my makefile.local is very outdated and messing with stuff 20:14:15 <Ammler> yes, you shouldn't need it 20:14:32 <FooBar_> I'll start by throwing that out 20:14:44 <Rubidium> 4.4 seconds from clean :) 20:14:55 <planetmaker> Rubidium: http://pastebin.ca/1893557 20:16:06 <Rubidium> it doesn't feel "in sync" with the newgame tooltip 20:16:54 <FooBar_> I'd say "Ctrl+Click to generate a random temperate game." 20:16:58 <FooBar_> so game instead of map 20:17:55 <FooBar_> now it's "No rule to make target `Makefile.dep', needed by `depend'." 20:18:00 <Rubidium> "Start a new game. Ctrl+Click skips map configuration" <- for "New game" 20:18:23 <FooBar_> something which it just did make... 20:18:47 <andythenorth> FooBar_: probably a missing file, let me check 20:18:50 <planetmaker> hm, true-ish 20:18:57 <Rubidium> which uses completely different words than your suggestions 20:19:21 <Rubidium> Ctrl+Click starts a new game and skips map configuration 20:19:28 <Rubidium> Ctrl+Click starts a new game skipping map configuration 20:19:49 <Rubidium> not sure which one is the better English though 20:20:17 <planetmaker> STR_INTRO_TOOLTIP_TEMPERATE :{BLACK}Select 'temperate' landscape style. Ctrl+Click starts new game and skips map configuration. ? 20:20:30 <FooBar_> Is this mksrcdirs.py required for anything? 20:20:37 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #761 (Closed): Recycling Plant and Junk Yard code needs d... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/761#change-2794 20:20:38 <planetmaker> yes 20:20:49 <planetmaker> or might be... 20:20:50 <Rubidium> oh ... maybe <type> between new and game, i.e. new 'temperate' game 20:21:06 <planetmaker> yes 20:21:24 <Rubidium> but this string probably requires a native 20:21:53 <planetmaker> there's a native dev. Though I'm sure it's ok 20:22:01 <planetmaker> and andythenorth is a native, too ;-) 20:22:27 <andythenorth> andythenorth is puzzling over which FIRS files could be missing 20:22:35 <andythenorth> hg st shows nothing obvious 20:23:02 <FooBar_> did you get my remark about the mksrcdirs.py? 20:23:20 <andythenorth> I have that file 20:23:33 <planetmaker> FooBar_: yes and IIRC yes 20:23:42 <FooBar_> me too, but I'm sure that cannot do anything on my system, because I don't have python 20:23:58 <planetmaker> you do have python. You have hg 20:24:28 <FooBar_> but it might not be in my path? 20:24:34 <planetmaker> hg is in your path? 20:25:30 <FooBar_> yes, that is in my path, and in that dir is this python dll 20:26:56 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #453 (Closed): Recode General Store as NewHouse (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/453#change-2796 20:27:16 <planetmaker> Rubidium: http://paste.openttd.org/226080 20:28:51 <planetmaker> though... I'm not entirely sure it's needed for much, FooBar_ 20:30:13 <FooBar_> there isn't much in it, that's for sure :) 20:30:38 <FooBar_> funny thing, after running make clean, it /does/ generate makefile.dep 20:30:47 <andythenorth> yup 20:30:55 <FooBar_> now I'm trying just 'make' 20:32:44 <FooBar_> it seems it's slow because for every grep action it opens and closes a new instance of sh.exe 20:34:30 <planetmaker> well. That's windows which is slow with it in particular 20:34:46 <FooBar_> I'm noticing... 20:35:28 <FooBar_> 5 minutes passed and still going... 20:37:13 <andythenorth> :( 20:37:37 <planetmaker> uh, that's ugly 20:39:04 <planetmaker> real 0m20.728s 20:39:05 <planetmaker> user 0m7.848s 20:39:07 <planetmaker> sys 0m10.780s 20:39:16 <planetmaker> which is ok in my eyes. But 5 minutes? 20:39:31 <FooBar_> still going 20:39:49 <Yexo> real 2m19.974s 20:39:50 <Yexo> user 2m39.953s 20:39:50 <Yexo> sys 1m48.413s 20:39:57 <Yexo> time make for first 20:40:32 <Yexo> eh, firs 20:41:45 <andythenorth> :o slow times 20:44:14 <Ammler> real 0m13.524s 20:45:30 <FooBar_> ah, now it stops with No rule to make target `firs.grf 20:45:50 <FooBar_> so real 15m and then you still have nothing... 20:46:17 <Ammler> Yexo: you use cygwin? 20:46:22 <Yexo> yes 20:46:27 <FooBar_> no, mingw/msys 20:46:45 <FooBar_> I think I have to give that up and indeed try cygwin instead 20:47:33 * andythenorth sends FooBar_ some sympathy via the internets 20:47:48 <FooBar_> thanks andy 20:47:48 <Ammler> FooBar_: or that package Rubidium pasted 20:49:01 <planetmaker> Ui... that's BIG time differences... 20:49:23 <planetmaker> @calc (2*60+39) / 7 20:49:23 <Webster> planetmaker: 22.7142857143 20:50:12 <FooBar_> I'll try again tomorrow, bit tired now. 20:50:16 <planetmaker> @calc (2*60+19) / 20 20:50:17 <Webster> planetmaker: 6.95 20:50:36 <planetmaker> hm... 20:50:42 <FooBar_> thanks so far, I'll try either Luna or Cygwin 20:50:51 <FooBar_> good night everyone! 20:50:56 <planetmaker> FooBar_: You could disable the dep check (locally), if you prefer. Anyway: good night 20:51:13 *** FooBar_ has quit IRC 20:53:27 <Yexo> planetmaker: is there an easy way to disable the dep check with your makefile system? 20:53:56 <planetmaker> not really 'easy'. Just delete the lines of the dep check 20:54:05 <planetmaker> it's in scripts/Makefile.common 20:54:30 <planetmaker> and replace it by a simple touch of Makefile.dep 20:54:49 <planetmaker> but no in-built parameter 21:52:20 *** dan123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:10:43 *** Seberoth has quit IRC 22:17:50 *** Seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:25:10 *** Seberoth has quit IRC 22:27:22 *** dan123 has quit IRC 22:32:02 *** ODM has quit IRC 22:35:19 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #1028: Parameters (new) (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1028#change-2797 22:40:02 *** OwenS has quit IRC 22:47:19 *** OwenS has joined #openttdcoop.devzone