Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 10th August 2010:
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07:32:13  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1221 (New): Convert set to DOS palette? (planetmaker) @
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07:59:15  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1221: Convert set to DOS palette? (Ammler) @
08:00:53  <Ammler> but you should tell irwe to change to dos for ser :-)
08:03:22  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1221: Convert set to DOS palette? (Rubidium) @
08:05:01  <planetmaker> well. Yes. Though I guess, I will have to do the conversion. But indeed I'm thinking about it.
08:05:14  <Ammler> conversion is useless
08:05:50  <Ammler> the idea of using dos palette is using the additional colors, else you can stay with win
08:05:52  <planetmaker> Though there's one twist: better only do that when there's OpenTTD 1.1 which natively supports automatic selection of the correct palette
08:06:06  <planetmaker> Conversion is not useless: Changes and additions can then follow the correct palette
08:06:13  <planetmaker> It's a starting point. Not the end point
08:06:27  <planetmaker> Of course new things then should be drawn in the correct, DOS palette straight away.
08:06:40  <Ammler> yep :-)
08:06:47  <Ammler> else it is useless
08:06:59  <Rubidium> oh, you could actually change the palette already and let GRFCodec convert it to the Windows palette
08:07:54  <Ammler> now, that is even more useless :-)
08:08:43  <planetmaker> well. Not quite Ammler: it means we could start providing sprites in the DOS palette. And have then a larger bunch of colour-enhanced sprites at hand when we convert to DOS palette
08:09:10  <planetmaker> Though... I wonder whether NML supports palette conversion ;-)
08:09:27  <planetmaker> I'm thinking about re-writing at least the extra newgrf in NML
08:09:33  <Ammler> I don't think you can "mix"
08:09:44  <Ammler> you have to use either dos or win for every sprite
08:09:44  <planetmaker> Given all those sprite templates being in use in OpenGFX, it'd be a big help
08:09:56  <planetmaker> Ammler, yes, I know.
08:10:02  <Ammler> then you can also make the final grf that palette, why would you like to convert thne?
08:10:10  <planetmaker> eh?
08:10:33  <Ammler> if you convert all sprites to dos, why should you make a windows grf?
08:10:33  <planetmaker> Ammler, the point of using grfcodec's conversion: The source then already uses the DOS palette
08:10:43  <planetmaker> For all sprites
08:10:55  <planetmaker> New sprites could use the few extra colours already.
08:11:06  <Ammler> how do you convert only part of sprites?
08:11:33  <planetmaker> They might not show yet in current releases, but it'd become immediately effective once we can do the transition, e.g. skip the conversion dos->win
08:11:51  <planetmaker> Ammler, I don't. ALL must be converted to DOS.
08:12:01  <planetmaker> And then let grfcodec convert it back to win
08:12:06  <Ammler> yes, and when you do that, no need for a win grf
08:12:38  <planetmaker> ... you forgot about your own argument in the issue I created?
08:12:49  <planetmaker> and Rubi's response there as well?
08:12:53  <Ammler> that is the reason not to go for dos
08:13:04  <planetmaker> as a _release_ newgrf. Yes
08:13:09  <planetmaker> BUT. In the source we can
08:13:50  <frosch123> planetmaker: you will have trouble with letting grfcodec convert dos->win
08:13:54  <Ammler> the conversion does map the missing colors to something similar, not in every case taht nice
08:13:55  <frosch123> it kills the font colours
08:14:12  <planetmaker> hm.
08:14:32  <planetmaker> Ammler, that's a technicality which can be dealt with
08:15:03  <planetmaker> especially as we'd have to convert them from win->dos in the first place. It should be a bijective projection
08:15:43  <planetmaker> At least I hope it is. e.g. A--(win->dos)--->B---(dos->win)--->A and not A'
08:16:34  <planetmaker> frosch123, in what way does it kill those? Shouldn't it retain them? Or is it a feature request for grfcodec 1.0? ;-)
08:16:52  <frosch123> <- see the very bottom about palette conversion
08:17:19  <frosch123> textcolours are always colours 1 and 2
08:17:41  <frosch123> for both palettes, but the dos-> win conversion maps them to D7 D8
08:18:06  <frosch123> so you may not convert the character sprites
08:18:26  <planetmaker> hm. ah. yes
08:18:34  <planetmaker> as they use the special pink colour or so
08:21:04  <Ammler> IMO, openttd could change behavior in respect to default palette and use windows for every non-a14 newgrf
08:21:26  <planetmaker> that *might* make sense
08:23:10  <Ammler> and opengfx won't have that many new spirtes, so not really worth to change the palette, I would prefer first finishing...
08:23:58  <planetmaker> The problem I have there: what is really 'finished'?
08:24:07  <planetmaker> It could well be called already 1.0
08:24:16  <planetmaker> I just didn't dare. Maybe for wrong reasons
08:24:34  <Ammler> no open tickets? :-)
08:24:39  <planetmaker> That's an illusion
08:24:50  <planetmaker> It won't happen
08:25:18  <Ammler> it's not like a newgrf which can add new features
08:25:24  <planetmaker> 1.0 actually should be defined by 'full playable replacement w/o major bugs'
08:25:45  <planetmaker> but things like 'signals not good enough'. Is it really a show stopper for 1.0?
08:25:53  <Ammler> yes
08:25:59  <Ammler> (IMO)
08:26:37  <planetmaker> or 'bubble generator needs better (proper?) building stages'?
08:26:55  <Ammler> I miss the signals only
08:27:11  <planetmaker> then draw them ;-)
08:27:11  <Ammler> maybe the maglev tracks, but those are ugly also in original
08:27:25  <planetmaker> which is not the best of arguments, eh?
08:27:51  <Ammler> yep, so those are worth 1.0 :-)
08:27:54  <planetmaker> One might consider to (re-)use the shanghai maglev tracks which recently were presented.
08:27:56  <planetmaker> I like them
08:29:28  <Ammler> I added a new category to newgrfs, so we can move inactive unreleased newgrfs there:
08:30:28  <planetmaker> comic houses also
08:30:58  <Ammler> well, that has at least a release
08:31:27  <planetmaker> hm.... no?
08:31:30  <planetmaker> It just has nightlies
08:31:51  <Ammler> yes, fine enough :-)
08:32:09  <Ammler> "inactive" might be wrong word
08:32:10  <planetmaker> then JapaneseTrains has official releases
08:32:34  <Ammler> I just wanted a place, where we can put "testing-the-tracker-sets"
08:33:40  <planetmaker> yeah, I understand. To clean the list from those projects which just eat space ;-)
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09:25:38  <Brot6> OpenGFX - Feature #1221: Convert set to DOS palette? (Ammler) @
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16:18:59  <Brot6> grfcodec: update from r217 to r218 done -
16:20:00  <Brot6> nforenum: update from r458 to r459 done -
16:20:28  <Brot6> openmsx: update from r91 to r97 done -
16:20:34  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r573), 32bpp-extra (r38), airportsplus (r52), basecosts (r20), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1121), fish (r386), heqs (r371), metrotrackset (r43), newgrf_makefile (r124), nml (r670), nutracks (r90), ogfxplus (r41), opengfx (r477), opensfx (r97), snowlinemod (r15), swedishrails (r141), transrapidtrackset (r15), worldairlinersset (r659)
16:21:29  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: rebuild of r573 done (6 errors) -
16:22:11  <Brot6> 32bpp-extra: rebuild of r38 done (1 errors) -
16:22:36  <Brot6> airportsplus: rebuild of r52 done -
16:22:57  <Brot6> basecosts: rebuild of r20 done -
16:23:23  <Brot6> comic-houses: rebuild of r71 done (3 errors) -
16:24:02  <Brot6> firs: rebuild of r1121 done (142 errors) (Diffsize: 413) (DiffDiffsize: 416) -
16:24:43  <Brot6> fish: rebuild of r386 done (6 errors) -
16:25:30  <Brot6> heqs: rebuild of r371 done -
16:26:23  <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: rebuild of r124 done -
16:27:11  <Brot6> nutracks: rebuild of r90 done (13 errors) -
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16:28:49  <Brot6> snowlinemod: rebuild of r15 done -
16:29:20  <Brot6> transrapidtrackset: rebuild of r15 done -
16:30:21  <Brot6> NFORenum - Revision 460:ad9e55792cea: Fix: some errors with the manpage (Rubidium) @
16:30:21  <Brot6> NFORenum - Revision 461:0e1fcb75b281: Change: INSTALL_DIR to DESTDIR (Rubidium) @
16:30:42  <Brot6> worldairlinersset: rebuild of r659 done -
16:30:42  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: metrotrackset, opengfx
16:31:57  <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 219:2ac2f24ae799: Fix: grfmrg.cpp was not ignore after its change in name (Rubidium) @
16:31:57  <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 220:2a1439060d9a: Change: INSTALL_DIR to DESTDIR (Rubidium) @
16:33:49  <planetmaker> why that change, Rubidium ?
16:34:10  <planetmaker> some concensus I missed when I searched?
16:37:33  <Rubidium> because autotools uses that and as such downstream packaging tools use it as well
16:37:39  <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 221:b36a7460c921: Fix: some man warnings (Rubidium) @
16:37:49  <planetmaker> ah
16:44:37  <planetmaker> does it make sense for the newgrfs then, too?
16:44:50  <planetmaker> Though they're hardly re-build by the distros, I guess
16:45:23  <planetmaker> except maybe Open[GFMS]X
16:48:47  <Rubidium> normal NewGRFs aren't quite in the scope for distros, though yes... for the base sets it could be useful
16:49:19  <Rubidium> although then the question is whether to change a working system
16:50:50  <Rubidium> e.g. for nforenum/grfcodec the make install was lacking/missing, so they had to manually do the installation of stuff. Adding that and removal of the subversion revisions adds a lot of changes to the package, so doing it right (tm) should be seriously considered
16:57:31  <Brot6> GRFCodec - Revision 222:8f542d101e1d: Change: make all documentation UTF-8 formatted (Rubidium) @
16:59:09  <Brot6> NFORenum - Revision 462:f629a1fabe50: Change: make all documentation UTF-8 (Rubidium) @
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17:05:38  <Ammler> thanks for fixing the spec too :-)
17:06:10  <Rubidium> yay for grep
17:06:14  <Rubidium> uhm...
17:06:18  <Rubidium> you should thank grep for that
17:06:23  <Rubidium> or sed
17:06:29  <Rubidium> or whatever regexpy thing
17:13:12  <Ammler> well, still :-)
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19:09:04  <frosch123> <- advertising request :)
19:09:06  <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - NML - a Newgrf Meta Language (at
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20:55:51  <planetmaker> hm.... I fear the answer is not what the person hopes for :S
20:57:26  <frosch123> nothing done wrt. stations? :o
20:58:36  <planetmaker> I need to check. But I think they're a missing feature mostly
20:58:54  <planetmaker> they have many specifics which need taking care. Same as houses
21:01:19  <planetmaker> varaction2 for vehicles, railtypes and airporttiles
21:01:22  <Yexo> indeed, no support at all for stations yet
21:02:43  <planetmaker> action0 for features 0-3, 9,A,D,10 and 11
21:12:12  <Ammler> hmm, building on debian seems harder than I meant :-)
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22:48:32  <Brot6> Swedish Rails - Feature #1223 (New): Improved fences (planetmaker) @
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