Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 4th February 2011:
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01:21:57  *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC
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06:09:10  <Brot6> OpenGFX - OpenGFX_usage.png (planetmaker) @
06:11:47  <Brot6> OpenGFX - usage_statistics.txt (planetmaker) @
06:46:28  <Yexo> planetmaker: I can't push my last changed to nml
06:46:39  <Yexo> remote: File "regression/expected/020_recolour.grf" may not be added to the repository.transaction abort!
06:46:57  <Yexo> is there something blocking the addition of grf files to the repo?
06:47:06  <Yexo> normally that would be invalid, but not in this case
06:47:52  <planetmaker> he. I guess the commit hook was activated (again)...
06:48:16  <Yexo> remote: abort: pretxnchangegroup.check hook failed <- yes, indeed
06:51:48  <planetmaker> try again
06:51:59  <Yexo> it worked now, thanks :)
06:52:10  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1148:ec7530936b2a: Codechange: just reraise the error when we wan... (yexo) @
06:52:10  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1149:d44f39984221: Add: commandline option to force the used palette (yexo) @
06:52:10  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1150:16c05f85c83f: Change: allow non-constant recolour sprites (yexo) @
06:52:12  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1151:642987205df8: Feature #1682: support recolour sprites (yexo) @
06:52:16  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1152:515453b6b5d3: Feature: GRM for sprites (yexo) @
06:52:19  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1153:4489782d33e7: Cleanup: remove never-used parameter 'allow_co... (yexo) @
06:52:23  <Yexo> support for recolour sprites + grm :)
06:52:23  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1154:77bd95a50abd: Change: allow specifying a filename for realsp... (yexo) @
06:52:27  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1155:efe5bcf016fc: Doc: syntax for realsprites and recolour sprites (yexo) @
06:52:31  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1156:82b2383a6a14: Doc: small grm example (yexo) @
06:52:34  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1157:0e209edc451f: Add: regression test for recolour sprites (yexo) @
06:53:36  <planetmaker> wow :-)
06:57:14  <planetmaker> Yexo: dunno, do you have (still) ssh to the server?
06:57:28  <Yexo> yes
06:57:41  <planetmaker> I activated the hook again. It's a global one for all repos.
06:57:56  <Yexo> you just deactivated it temporary in ~/.hgrc ?
06:58:05  <planetmaker> I guess that would need changing; for the meantime, yes ^
06:58:12  <Yexo> (yes, I was looking at the same time as you, but couldn't find why it stopped the commit)
06:58:30  <planetmaker> grf is in the bad file endings
06:58:37  <Yexo> ah, ok
06:58:47  <Yexo> I didn't come as far as the ini files yet before you disabled it
06:58:49  <planetmaker> as defined in misc/hooks/repo_checks.ini or so
06:59:23  <planetmaker> there's a global and a repo-specific ini file possible. Not sure whether the latter overwrites the global - it would need checking. But later...
07:03:22  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #1682 (Closed): support recolor sprites (yexo) @
07:19:56  <Yexo> only thing I couldn't figure out is why in both the original windows TTD grfs and in opengfx the recolour sprites have 01 as second byte
07:20:05  <Yexo> it's marked as "don't use" area
07:20:11  <Yexo> currently nml will write a 0 there, not 1
07:26:17  <planetmaker> well. OpenGFX' recolour sprites probably are a verbatim copy of the de-compiled ttd grf recolour sprites.
07:28:23  <Yexo> I guessed as much
07:28:32  <Yexo> in other words: probably 0 will work as well
07:30:37  <planetmaker> do I have, in NML, the possibility to get the 2nd CC recolour sprites: ?
07:31:12  <planetmaker> I guess... just reading var 11 and then using the result?
07:31:25  <Yexo> I don't think it's taht symple
07:31:58  <planetmaker> The dualCC entry there suggests it is as simple to obtain the recolour sprite number
07:32:10  <Yexo> it is
07:32:14  <Yexo> it's just not yet supported by nml
07:32:21  <planetmaker> :-)
07:32:34  <planetmaker> Another dump question: can I get the CC as a variable?
07:33:20  <planetmaker> the idea: I have a 2CC vehicle, I want to keep the CC but use the 2nd CC as a random component
07:33:43  <Yexo> hmm, not sure about that
07:33:46  <planetmaker> like a flatbed car with a CC chassey and a random CC container
07:34:32  <Yexo> var 43 has the company colour, but I'm not sure if that takes the vehicle type colour in effect
07:35:01  <Yexo> yes, it does :)
07:35:05  <Yexo> so var 43 is the answer :)
07:35:10  <planetmaker> I'm not even sure it contains any useful data due to desync issues... - oh nice :-)
07:35:31  <Yexo> company_colour1 <- in nml :)
07:35:37  <planetmaker> OpenGFX+Trains 0.3 or 0.4 will then probably employ some of that stuff ;-)
07:36:03  <Yexo> but I don't think you can specify a recolour sprite for vehicles
07:36:10  <planetmaker> not?
07:36:23  <Yexo> I haven't found out how to do that yet
07:36:47  <Yexo> for buildings (=houses, objects, industries, airports) the action2 links a real sprite and recoloursprite together
07:36:58  <Yexo> but for vehicles the action2 contains just a realsprite
07:37:17  <planetmaker> hm...
07:37:45  <Yexo> how does 2cc for vehicles work? don't you just need to set a flag for that?
07:38:00  <planetmaker> yes
07:38:18  <Yexo> so you don't even need var 11 for that
07:38:20  <planetmaker> but still I can apply *somehow* re-colour sprites to vehicles
07:38:38  <planetmaker> Yexo: yes, but I want to not use the 2nd CC but a random 2nd CC.
07:38:50  <Yexo> I know, I'm just not sure if that's possible
07:38:51  <planetmaker> for different wagons different 2nd CC
07:39:01  <Yexo> <planetmaker> but still I can apply *somehow* re-colour sprites to vehicles <_ is that a wish or a fact?
07:39:22  <planetmaker> From what I read what mb writes it shall be possible
07:39:46  <planetmaker> But I haven't seen or looked for how to code it yet
07:45:10  <planetmaker> However, it will need looking for, maybe it's a bit too ambitious or unrealistic... :-)
07:48:38  <Yexo> ah, there is a callback for vehicles to return a recolour sprite :)
07:49:08  <Yexo>
07:49:34  <planetmaker> :-)
07:49:58  <planetmaker> hm, I shall try that with the container wagons ;-)
07:50:04  <planetmaker> will be awesome
07:50:25  <planetmaker> but I won't then even need a special re-colour sprite when I can reference every 2cc one
07:50:42  <Yexo> indeed :)
07:50:57  <planetmaker> can you give me a reason to include a custom recolour sprite somewhere?
07:51:04  <planetmaker> maybe with airports?
07:51:17  <planetmaker> Glass hangar :-P
07:51:24  <Yexo> frosch gave an example yesterday of a station set using it for green glass
07:51:51  <planetmaker> yes, but I don't have a station set nor does NML yet support stations nor do I have time to write a station set ;-)
07:52:18  <Yexo> in theory you could create a few recolour sprites that recolour house sprites so you have very different looking houses but only one real sprite
07:52:48  <Yexo> in practice however that's probably more work than just doing a few extra sprites
07:52:54  <planetmaker> yeah :-)
07:53:20  <planetmaker> though if you decide on a few colours and know what to replace... - but then 2cc might again do the trick for pop-art houses
07:53:28  <Yexo> oh, the mauve->black company colour newgrf
07:53:40  <planetmaker> <-- like that
07:53:41  <Webster> Title: Galerie (at
07:53:43  <planetmaker> :-P
07:54:02  <planetmaker> uh... that's a newgrf which IMHO should be forbidden ;-)
07:54:11  <planetmaker> it has an ugly impact on the whole GUI colours
07:54:38  <Yexo> because it replaces one of the default recolour sprites
07:54:48  <planetmaker> yes
07:56:22  <Yexo> base_sprite_2cc <- that is already available in nml and it references patch var 11
07:58:18  <planetmaker> he :-) amazing what we all have
07:58:41  <Yexo> yes, indeed :)
07:58:53  <planetmaker> so when is time for 0.1 release?
07:59:11  <Yexo> do vehicles have random bits?
07:59:53  <Yexo> soon :)
08:00:02  <planetmaker> vehicles have 8 random bits or so. yes
08:00:04  <planetmaker> I use them
08:00:11  <Yexo> issue tracker has mostly documentation and example tasks open for 0.1
08:00:14  <planetmaker> even regressions iirc has an example
08:01:37  <planetmaker> <-- what do you mean with that?
08:02:25  <planetmaker> and doesn't look small - though I'm quite satisfied with how it works now.
08:03:01  <planetmaker> I wonder though: should we add to the grf block one additional variable: nml_version ?
08:03:31  <Yexo> that doesn't help, because if the file can't be parsed than the grf block can't be read either
08:03:52  <Yexo> #1681 is about the settings block that's part of the grf-block
08:03:52  <Brot6> Yexo: #1681 is "NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #1681: Documentation for user-changeable settings - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
08:04:16  <Yexo> there are several examples of it now, but still no documentation of the syntax
08:04:47  <planetmaker> the action14 stuff?
08:07:27  <Yexo> yes
08:08:43  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1158:a18eaa1949ff: Fix: wrong variable name used (yexo) @
08:08:54  <planetmaker> we have parameters described, we have the necessary ones described. What is missing?
08:10:09  <planetmaker> the subsequent use of if (param_provide) { ... } ?
08:10:11  <Yexo> nothing, I didn't know that we had parameters already described
08:11:15  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #1681 (Closed): Documentation for user-changeable settings (yexo) @
08:15:13  <planetmaker> Don't OpenGFX+RV and OpenGFX+Trains satisfy already? Or should it be simpler?
08:15:24  <Yexo> indeed, feel free to close it
08:16:42  <planetmaker> yes, done ;-)
08:17:39  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #1421 (Closed): Example vehicle project (planetmaker) @
08:18:00  <planetmaker> ogfx+industries just needs a bit extension with a real industry...
08:19:25  <Yexo> otherwise we'll just ignore those tasks and move them to 0.2, they're not really release critical or so
08:19:28  <planetmaker> there's somewhere a wood which could also get snow-awareness
08:26:10  <Yexo> <- vehicle with random second cc in nml :)
08:36:42  <planetmaker> he, nice :-)
08:36:51  <planetmaker> Terkhen, will maybe like to copy it ;-)
08:37:49  <Terkhen> that would be nice to have as a parameter :)
08:38:45  <Yexo> with that code it's important to NOT set VEHICLE_FLAG_2CC for the vehicle
08:40:50  <Terkhen> currently it is set for toyland vehicles (which are the only ones with 2CC sprites in OpenGFX+RV)
08:41:05  <Yexo> I noticed that while testing :)
08:41:16  <planetmaker> Yexo, good to know, but yes, thinking about it, it makes sense.
08:41:29  <planetmaker> I really will add that to my container wagons. Will be awesome :-)
08:41:36  <Terkhen> yes, I did not think about that when checking the code :P
08:47:33  <Yexo> switch (FEAT_ROADVEHS, SELF, ploddyphuth_recolour, base_sprite_2cc + (use_random_2cc ? (random_bits & 0xF0) : (company_colour2 << 4)) | (1 << 14)) { <- that should work with a parameter named use_random_2cc
08:48:04  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1159:62741c0278ea: Fix: the ternary operator is only supported by... (yexo) @
08:48:10  <Yexo> incidentally it's also the second testcase I wrote this morning that triggered an internal error
08:48:24  <planetmaker> I don't even want to think about how lengthy that'd be in plain NFO ;-)
08:48:30  <planetmaker> hehe
08:50:06  <Terkhen> Yexo:  thanks :)
08:50:07  <Yexo>
08:50:24  <Yexo> I don't want to write / read that in plain nfo either :p
08:54:43  <planetmaker> quite not, even though it's less lengthy than I though
08:54:44  <planetmaker> t
08:55:32  <planetmaker> but I can't claim I really follow the nfo easily
09:15:44  <Yexo> anything that definitely needs to be done before 0.1? otherwise I'll just go ahead and release 0.1.0
09:19:43  <Yexo> Hirundo: ^^
09:20:30  <Yexo> planetmaker: can #2023 be closed? or do basesets still need more support?
09:20:30  <Brot6> Yexo: planetmaker: #2023 is "NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2023: support for base sets - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
09:27:40  <planetmaker> Yexo, as far is it seems to me now, it's all fine
09:28:04  <planetmaker> what I use so far works for me brilliantly and recolour sprites now seem to work, too - so everything should be fine
09:28:31  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature Request #2023 (Closed): support for base sets (yexo) @
09:29:04  <planetmaker> hm... interesting :-)
09:29:22  <planetmaker> I guess I'll keep it NFO only till about April and then I'll add nml as requirement to OpenGFX ;-)
09:30:00  <planetmaker> We'll IMHO need a convenient official download just like for grfcodec - or at least I'd like to: or alike
09:30:20  <planetmaker> at least for the stable one
09:30:43  <planetmaker> could just be a symlink IMHO to the devzone download locations, actually for both, nightlies and releases
09:40:31  <Yexo> imo that's not directly needed, but it would be nice
09:41:52  <planetmaker> well. Needed is possibly too strong. But grfcodec is there, so why not NML either when it is a much better start for newcomers?
09:42:12  <Yexo> question is: is it already a better start?
09:42:16  <planetmaker> And possibly I should get an entry on the newgrf wiki, too.
09:42:17  <Yexo> documentation is still lacking
09:42:52  <planetmaker> Yexo, maybe it lacks a bit documentation. But looking at grfcodec / nforenum: do you think it's easier to get started?
09:42:55  <planetmaker> I don't think so.
09:43:24  <planetmaker> And looking at e.g. NARVS it seems that people can actually get going using NML
09:43:29  <Yexo> true, nml is definitely easier to read/write
09:43:45  <Yexo> however (currently) it doesn't have the same amount of people being able to read it
09:43:58  <planetmaker> Yes. But that's a catch 22 case
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09:45:59  <planetmaker> welcome back :-)
09:46:40  <Yexo> thanks :)
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09:55:41  <planetmaker> hm, issues with the bouncer, Yexo ?
09:56:14  <Yexo> no, issues with empathy not playing nice
09:57:14  <Yexo> it looked like a nice client but it insists on leaving every channel when you close the window
09:57:16  <planetmaker> ah... it should not quit for you indeed ;-)
09:57:29  <Yexo> which means the bouncer leaves the channel for me, which was not my intention
09:59:01  <planetmaker> he :-)
09:59:46  <planetmaker> empathy is lacking empathy it seems :-P (sorry for the bad pun, but it just laid around)
10:00:52  <Terkhen> :D
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11:57:27  <Ammler> Yexo: sounds like the client andy uses
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12:08:05  * DanMacK waves
12:11:28  <planetmaker> hello DanMacK :-)
12:14:35  <Yexo> planetmaker: can you test whether or not nml works on python 2.5?
12:17:47  <planetmaker> thanks for reminding me...
12:18:23  <planetmaker> let's say: it had been working
12:18:49  <planetmaker>
12:20:09  <Yexo> could you try again after pulling?
12:21:06  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1160:e1ee9e529b2c: Cleanup: remove duplicate function (yexo) @
12:21:06  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1161:e18c425920ca: Cleanup: remove unused imports (yexo) @
12:21:06  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1162:bf0355ff1e95: Fix: don't use python 2.6 features (yexo) @
12:21:08  <planetmaker> looking good.
12:21:16  <planetmaker> ogfx+trains compiles
12:23:13  <Yexo> thanks
12:23:31  <planetmaker> thanks extend to you :-)
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14:21:48  <Hirundo> Yexo: I guess 0.1.0 is about done, nice work
14:22:33  <Hirundo> Any plans w.r.t. versioning scheme / backwards compatibility between NML versions etc. ?
14:23:55  <planetmaker> well, my suggestion is to add a nml_version entry to the grf struct (or possibly separate is better)
14:24:14  <planetmaker> nml_version(0.1)
14:24:43  <planetmaker> or alike. Then one could in case of doubt allow to process also older syntax
14:26:41  <Hirundo> If anything, it'd have to be a command line parameter I think
14:26:58  <Hirundo> Else, you can't break anything in the lexing/parsing phase
14:27:24  <Hirundo> Would it be possible, to integrate such a thing within the devzone framework?
14:28:41  <Rubidium> maybe some comment on the first line declaring its version?
14:28:57  <Rubidium> that way you could change the lexer/parser
14:29:44  <Hirundo> Like grfcodec/renum do with the NFO header?
14:30:10  <planetmaker> yes
14:35:00  <Hirundo> I'll go and cut out some obsolete stuff that is already deprecated, like spriteblocks
14:35:22  <Hirundo> So we don't have to support that ad infinitum
14:36:58  <planetmaker> yes, no legacy at 0.1 ;-)
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17:08:56  <Brot6> nml: update from r1144 to r1162 done -
17:18:35  <Brot6> 2cctrainset: update from r734 to r736 done (6 errors) -
17:19:03  <Brot6> airportsplus: update from r70 to r71 done -
17:19:44  <Brot6> ogfx-landscape: update from r22 to r23 done -
17:20:50  <Brot6> opengfx: update from r605 to r606 done -
17:20:57  <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r11), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r45), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1695), fish (r567), frenchtowns (r6), grfcodec (r821), heqs (r572), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r6), metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r5), newgrf_makefile
17:20:57  <Brot6> (r254), nml (r1162), nutracks (r176), ogfx-industries (r3), ogfx-rv (r78), ogfx-trains (r201), ogfx-trees (r42), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r45), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r193), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r24), worldairlinersset (r671)
17:23:18  <Brot6> ogfx-trains: rebuild of r201 done (Diffsize: 7) (DiffDiffsize: 10) -
17:24:10  <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: belarusiantowns, frenchtowns, indonesiantowns (1 errors) (Diffsize: 1), manindu (Diffsize: 1), narvs, newgrf_makefile, ogfx-industries, ogfx-rv (1 errors), spanishtowns, swedishrails (Diffsize: 6), swisstowns
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17:48:53  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1163:e031afd5d0c3: Remove: Sprite blocks. They have been deprecat... (Hirundo) @
17:48:53  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1164:b25bef4a501e: Cleanup: Remove the (deprecated) possibility t... (Hirundo) @
17:48:53  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1165:ee55a0270186: Add: Warning when using sprite layout paramete... (Hirundo) @
17:48:55  <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1166:d8e9173e004a: Add: Warning when a sprite group/layout/whatev... (Hirundo) @
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18:12:52  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2244 (New): CP 0100 (Voyager1) @
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18:31:21  <Yexo> Hirundo: how hard is is for to remove the spritegroup for railtypes and use the spriteset name in switch/graphics blocks?
18:31:39  <Yexo> the spritegroup _always_ (afaik) contains a single spriteset name, so it's a waste of space
18:36:52  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2244: CP 0100 (Voyager1) @
19:03:44  <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r21950 to r21965 done (2 errors) -
19:06:40  <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r21488 to r21488 done -
19:07:50  <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r21965 still failed (#2080) -
20:05:00  <Yexo> after fiddling with it yesterday I'm still trying to figure out what the thought behind action6 addition (instead of overwriting) is
20:06:51  <Yexo> it requires more actions than simple adding the original value to the value you want to overwrite and just overwrite
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21:09:33  <Yexo> Lakie: is varaction2 var 7B supported by ttdpatch?
21:10:40  <Yexo> sorry, nvm, it was on the wiki already
21:11:32  <Yexo> frosch123: why does it say you can only use bytesized parameters? I thought the point was that is supported vehicleids > 256 with this approach?
21:16:58  <frosch123> does it say that? i wanted to say "upper bits are reserved, zero them!"
21:17:34  <Yexo> "Also note that you can pass non-byte parameters to 60+x variable here."
21:17:42  <frosch123> and yes, in my version 8 queue there is the var60 with appropiate parameter
21:18:51  <frosch123> "While current 60+x variables only use byte parameters, the higher bits of the parameter are considered reserved. So, make sure to mask the higher bits in the preceding calculations." <- i don't get your question
21:18:56  <frosch123> isn't it quite precise?
21:21:25  <Yexo> can you use values > 256 for vehicle var 60?
21:21:38  <Yexo> oh, sorry
21:21:40  <frosch123> not yet, but in my queue
21:21:58  <Yexo> "Also note that you can pass non-byte parameters <- I read that as "can _not_ pass non-byte"
21:21:59  <Yexo> sorry
21:22:12  <frosch123> ok :)
21:43:51  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2245 (New): An idea wrt running costs and NuTracks (DJNekkid) @
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22:43:38  <Ammler> is down for quite a long time already, is there no active project there anymore?
22:51:41  <Yexo> there still are a few
22:59:33  <planetmaker> c/should we move them?
23:00:03  <planetmaker> but I guess we then could not maintain the svn URLs which would be bad, so no
23:02:03  <Yexo> I guess the ones that are still used are already moved, or someone would've complained earlier
23:02:34  <Yexo> so yes, they should be moved (and converted to hg), but only with their authors knowledge and consent
23:03:45  <planetmaker> well... couldn't those remain svn, Ammler ?
23:09:59  <frosch123> is wrightai moved? :p
23:11:05  <Yexo> no
23:30:00  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2245: An idea wrt running costs and NuTracks (Voyager1) @
23:31:08  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2245: An idea wrt running costs and NuTracks (DJNekkid) @
23:41:07  <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2245: An idea wrt running costs and NuTracks (EmperorJake) @
23:58:58  *** frosch123 has quit IRC

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