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00:00:57 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 00:52:53 *** Lakie has quit IRC 00:53:15 *** Lakie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:47:59 *** Lakie has quit IRC 05:12:50 <Brot6> FISH - Revision 619:2bdb406560fa: Add: rendered source files for utility tug medium (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/revisions/2bdb406560fa 05:14:41 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 05:28:29 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 05:46:33 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:27:17 *** TheODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:34:23 *** ODM has quit IRC 07:51:05 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:55:56 *** TheODM has quit IRC 08:03:03 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:26:18 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:18:57 *** Rubidium has quit IRC 09:18:57 *** orudge has quit IRC 09:19:45 *** Rubidium has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:19:45 *** orudge has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:24:36 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:45:48 <Ammler> planetmaker: are you able to answer my question from ogfx thread: "Edit: why isn't that a bug? 32px on the map, 28px in the depot view, I have quite troubles to see sense here." 10:50:09 <Ammler> I also wonder, wouldn't fixing the length on the map also fix the "growing bug"? 10:53:33 <planetmaker> Ammler, while that certainly is the preferred solution, it's something which will certainly break lots of newgrfs. 10:54:06 <Ammler> which is no harm if it fixes a bug, is it 10:54:42 <Ammler> could we make a patch to test that at least? 10:54:43 <Yexo> in this case is it, as it makes those newgrfs behave differently between ttdpatch and openttd for no good reason 10:55:00 <Yexo> that is, if newgrfs are really affected 10:56:13 <Ammler> Yexo: maybe possible to keep a "legacy mode", but first we would need to know, if it is worth to even think about :-) 10:58:45 <Ammler> I always thought, it would need to resize the sprites, but as it seems this would not be the case 11:00:22 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:00:30 <planetmaker> possibly it could be introduced as a per-grf setting 11:00:48 <Yexo> there is already a per-grf setting 11:01:29 <Ammler> planetmaker: as said, first I would test, _if_ that really is able to fix the issue 11:02:24 <Ammler> is that length (32px) somewhere hardcoded constant? 11:02:30 <Yexo> yes 11:02:34 <planetmaker> the default: yes 11:02:49 <Ammler> hmm, can you tell me where? 11:03:05 <Yexo> start by grepping for GMB_TRAIN_WIDTH_32_PIXELS and go from there 11:03:09 <Yexo> I don't know the exact line 11:05:10 <Ammler> I find that in newgrf.cpp only 11:05:17 <planetmaker> newgrf.h gives the bit 11:05:26 <Ammler> yep 11:05:36 <planetmaker> and it tells GRFFile::traininfo_vehicle_width 11:05:39 <Ammler> does that also infect the default? 11:05:52 <Yexo> that's a per-grf value 11:05:56 <Yexo> newgrf.cpp:6046 11:06:05 <Yexo> it changes _cur_grffile->traininfo_vehicle_width based on that bit 11:06:08 <planetmaker> Thus by default it's not set, thus not 32px 11:06:19 <planetmaker> it could be an extension for NFO v8 11:06:29 <planetmaker> just dropping that bit 11:06:33 <Ammler> planetmaker: can we ignore newgrf for now 11:06:39 <planetmaker> Ammler, no 11:06:43 <Yexo> why? just allow the baseset to set that bit and use it for the baseset vehicles 11:06:50 <Ammler> and first check, if that has influence at all? 11:07:00 <Yexo> Ammler: it has 11:07:06 <Yexo> newgrfs depend on that bit 11:07:08 <Ammler> Yexo: the original set is also buggy 11:07:17 <Ammler> so it wouldn't be something for opengfx only 11:07:23 <planetmaker> Yexo, I guess we'll need a list of settings which base grfs should also get access to. 11:07:33 <planetmaker> Could it make sense to add that to the extra grf? 11:07:44 <planetmaker> Or an additional 'info' file? 11:07:49 <Ammler> ah, you don't get me :-( 11:07:56 <Yexo> if original is also buggy it could be changed to use 32 instead of 28 px for non-grf vehicles, leaving 28px as default for newgrf vehicles 11:08:00 <planetmaker> Ammler, The original set is drawn in 28px 11:08:13 <planetmaker> that can't be changed 11:08:25 <Ammler> planetmaker: but 32px on the map, isn't? 11:08:29 <planetmaker> no 11:08:44 <planetmaker> the sprites are 28px. Still they occupy 32px on the map, yes 11:08:46 <planetmaker> But original has gaps 11:08:53 <planetmaker> s/original/TTD/ 11:09:24 <Ammler> quote from you: "And in depots it's cut down to 28px, no matter if it's longer or not, a size cannot be defined, on tracks it will use 32px" 11:09:38 <planetmaker> 32px spacing 11:09:52 <Ammler> yep, I want reduce that spacing 11:09:57 <planetmaker> no, that not 11:10:06 <Yexo> spacing on the map cannot be reduced 11:10:11 <planetmaker> the full length sprites are 32px. And that won't and can't be reduced 11:10:17 <Ammler> why? 11:10:26 <planetmaker> it breaks really _very_ train set 11:10:30 <planetmaker> since the dawn of ages 11:10:35 <planetmaker> *every 11:10:37 <Yexo> not only that, it brakes every old savegame 11:10:39 <Ammler> as said, I would like to ignroe newgrfs for now 11:10:48 <Yexo> making saves between opengfx and original basesets incompatible 11:11:02 <Yexo> Ammler: ignoring newgrfs for now is pointless, you have to take them into account anyway 11:11:05 <planetmaker> Ammler, the length of wagons is not subject to change 11:11:17 <Ammler> Yexo: I would like to know, if that would fix the issue, that's all 11:11:21 <planetmaker> it's defined, it impacts path finder, collision detection etc pp 11:11:26 <Yexo> the only thing that can be changed is the spacing in depots and the actual sprites 11:11:39 <Ammler> just for my own curiosity :-) 11:11:42 <Yexo> currently the spacing in depots is 28px, that could be changed for the baseset to 32px 11:12:03 <Yexo> or the baseset sprites could be make smaller so they don't overlap with 28px, but that means they'll have gaps on the map where they're drawn with 32px spacing 11:12:39 <planetmaker> opengfx actually is inconsistent with the wagon length currently. Some are 32px (rail), some are 28px (maglev) 11:13:15 <planetmaker> however: the length on the maps really cannot be changed. It breaks as much as one can break 11:13:31 <planetmaker> also saves without newgrfs are then broken 11:14:20 <planetmaker> hm, well. I'll check whether I can actually already achieve 32px depot view... Later tonight 11:14:52 <Ammler> so just in theory, can I change that spacing? 11:15:05 <Ammler> if I don't care about save compatibilty and newgrfs 11:15:19 <Yexo> Ammler: of course, in theory you can change everything :) 11:15:42 <Yexo> but I'm not going to spend time trying to find out how since it's pointless 11:15:43 <Ammler> Yexo: this talk reminds me of the talk about client limits 11:16:01 <Ammler> as I had to prove the devs, that is possible :-P 11:16:23 <planetmaker> Ammler, changing the depot view is of no consequence to anything MP or savegame relevance. That's feasible without much thought on those issues. It's display only 11:17:02 <Ammler> planetmaker: yep, but the other would also fix a "unresolvealbe" bug, that would be quite cool 11:17:17 <planetmaker> Ammler, nope, that's a different issue 11:17:25 <Yexo> Ammler: which bug would that fix? 11:17:34 <Ammler> Yexo: trains growth 11:17:35 <planetmaker> That issue is that the / and \ view need actually to be SHORTER 11:18:27 <Ammler> Yexo: it is the most famous unresolveable bug, I think 11:18:51 <Yexo> perhaps, I don't see how changing the length of vehicles on the map fixes that though 11:19:18 <Ammler> yep, I know, you guys need to see it until you believe, well me too 11:19:26 <Ammler> so I would like to test it :-) 11:20:16 <Yexo> Ammler: if you change the length of the default vehicles to 28px, the length in the / and \ view need to be adjusted by exactly as much 11:20:26 <Yexo> so it doesn't change the relative lengths of the _ and / views 11:20:36 <Ammler> the point is even not 11:20:47 <Ammler> the _ view is longer as the others 11:20:57 <Ammler> that is why the trains growth 11:21:09 <planetmaker> Yexo, the "bug" is that the length in / and \ view is not proportionally adjusted to the -- view. But that is an entirely different issue. Which Ammler mixes in here for no gain IMHO 11:21:26 <Yexo> Ammler: but changing that is different from changing the spacing between the default vehicles 11:21:29 <planetmaker> as they're not really connected and would need separate addressing in any case 11:21:36 <Yexo> as changing the spacing implies changing the spacing in _every_ view 11:22:01 <Yexo> planetmaker: exactly, that's a different issue 11:22:07 <Ammler> why doesn't change spacing not influence length? 11:22:14 <planetmaker> that *might* also be worth addressing. But that needs *much* more thought and testing 11:22:26 <Yexo> which needs a different fix, which probably is also "impossible" to do correct with all existing newgrfs 11:22:56 <Yexo> Ammler: changing spacing needs to be done in every view, as such is does not influence _relative_ length of _ and / views 11:23:02 <planetmaker> Ammler, lengths on map != length in depot 11:23:06 <planetmaker> That's like ships and RV 11:23:14 <Ammler> yepyep 11:23:49 <Ammler> planetmaker: I already got it that it is about spacing and not the length of the sprites 11:24:48 <Ammler> Yexo: maybe it is possible to change the factor from / to - view? 11:25:33 <Yexo> that is possible, but A) it's _very_ hard and B) it might break newgrfs 11:26:36 <Ammler> I already said, I would ignore that for a test, but in any case, you could keep a "legacy mode" 11:26:41 <planetmaker> and C) is unrelated and of more general interest than fixing this base set problem with depots 11:27:09 <Yexo> Ammler: I can understand that, but A) is putting me off from trying it 11:27:11 <planetmaker> With changing the lengths on the maps... not sure a legacy mode can actually be kept 11:27:35 <Ammler> Yexo: I would do that, I just would need a hint, what to search for :-) 11:27:46 <planetmaker> it needs all: PF knowledge, NewGRF knowledge, collision detection 11:28:00 <planetmaker> the latter uses the length on the map 11:28:11 <planetmaker> the PF needs the length on the map 11:28:16 <Yexo> Ammler: I have no idea where to look, other than what planetmaker already says 11:28:17 <planetmaker> and NewGRFs rely on lengths 11:28:26 <Ammler> keep your minds open please, do not always state ideas as impossible, if those aren't from you :-P 11:28:42 <Yexo> I didn't say this one is impossible, I'm just saying it's very hard 11:28:50 <Yexo> in fact so hard that personally I'm not going to try 11:29:17 <Ammler> well, you said similar things about the player limit 3 years ago 11:29:20 <planetmaker> I don't see me succeeding in that neither, by a great length not 11:29:35 <Yexo> I don't remember saying that 11:29:41 <Ammler> you=devs 11:30:21 <Terkhen> you will also need to change how vehicle speed works 11:30:36 <Ammler> Terkhen: yep, that are other ideas about 11:30:50 <Ammler> but I would first just try to reduce the lenght in - view 11:31:08 <Ammler> dunno anymore if | view is also infected 11:31:30 <Yexo> Ammler: if you only shorten the _ view without changing the speed calculation you'll just introduce other bugs 11:31:53 <Ammler> it would basically be a GUI change so I would not bet that much that is would break savegames 11:32:04 <Yexo> but it's not a gui change 11:32:10 <planetmaker> uhm... ^ 11:32:16 <Yexo> shortening the _ view means all sprites are drawn closer together 11:32:22 <Yexo> which means the vehicles actually have to be closer 11:32:35 <planetmaker> it breaks all vehicle specs 11:32:38 <Yexo> which makes loading old savegames hard as relative positions have to be recalculated on load 11:32:41 <planetmaker> which state that full length is 32px 11:32:42 <Ammler> Yexo: you might think farer then me 11:32:49 <Yexo> and it breaks all newgrfs that depend on the length 11:33:16 <Ammler> Yexo: every vehicle on a train has it's position saved? 11:33:16 <Yexo> Ammler: I don't see how changing the length of the _ view could be anything smaller 11:33:21 <Yexo> Ammler: yes 11:33:28 <Ammler> ok, then it braks it :-) 11:36:07 <planetmaker> also you can't make it longer: or trains might be overlapping, thus already be crashed 11:36:10 <Ammler> of course, fixing such bug is no mainstream hero thing like yacd, as you need quite croweded (coop) game to reach inpact on it 11:37:13 <Yexo> Ammler: and yet see how many times cargodest has been attempted and failed 11:37:34 <Yexo> but the big difference is that cargodest is actually very doable 11:37:39 <Yexo> it's hard, certainly, but doable 11:37:47 <Ammler> :-) 11:37:57 <Yexo> there are lots of people with (different) ideas on how to do it 11:38:54 <planetmaker> but it's much easier in the respect that it *extends* the game. And not *changes* behaviour 11:39:22 <planetmaker> thus you have much more freedom than with vehicle lengths :-) 11:40:54 <Ammler> as said, I don't need it applied, I just wonder, if it would be possible :-) 11:41:34 <Ammler> train_cmd.cpp is the first file I should look in, right? 11:42:03 <Brot6> repository /home/hg/sub-opengfx registered in Redmine with url /home/hg/sub-opengfx 11:42:03 <Brot6> repository /home/hg/sub-opengfx created 11:44:12 <Ammler> ? 11:44:21 <Ammler> not ogfx-media or something? 11:45:09 <Ammler> sub sounds so less :-) 11:47:25 <planetmaker> I called it sub-gfx 11:47:39 <planetmaker> and it's for testing. I don't want to use the names I might use later for real 11:48:04 <planetmaker> that one is to become just a clone of opengfx 11:48:13 <planetmaker> it's for testing the CF with that 11:49:45 <Ammler> you don't necessary need to make redmine project 11:49:51 <planetmaker> but I want 11:49:55 <Ammler> ok :-) 11:50:07 <planetmaker> if I'm going to test it, I want to test it for real ;-) 11:50:48 <Ammler> well, if it is not working, IMO it might be worth to make it working... 11:51:31 <planetmaker> yes. But also that will need testing. Thus the test repos will come in handy there, too 11:51:52 <planetmaker> I don't want to use the repos of OpenGFX and friends for happy testing and messing-up 11:51:59 <Ammler> yeah, just meant, don't give up, if my CF scripts don't do what you want :-P 11:52:07 <planetmaker> I won't. 11:52:16 <planetmaker> I'll just give you a bug report then :-P 11:52:24 <Ammler> exactly ;-) 11:54:17 <planetmaker> but I really want to make sure any such change will work smoothly and without trouble 11:54:46 <planetmaker> too many people and repos depend and rely on those repos to work 11:55:05 <Ammler> I don't think, it will work on the server without change 11:55:40 <planetmaker> Dunno. Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not yet familiar enough with it 11:55:47 <Ammler> if you clone a repo with subrepos, will the subrepos automatically cloned with? 11:56:00 <planetmaker> dunno ;-) 12:02:01 <Ammler> it doesn't, it needs a update of the main repo 12:02:26 <Ammler> then it should automatically clone/pull what's needed 12:02:39 <Ammler> hmm 12:02:46 <Ammler> then clone might clone those 12:03:00 <planetmaker> clone != checkout 12:05:47 <Ammler> checkout is update 12:46:48 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/175/ <-- hm... that stinks like 'Cleanup: Remove unused files' is needed 13:44:24 *** Doorslammer has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:50:39 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:13:25 *** Lakie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:30:04 *** Doorslammer has quit IRC 15:23:27 <Terkhen> 2cc has too many trains :/ 15:25:47 <V453000> many trains would be nice 15:25:53 <V453000> but 2cc set has too many _useless_ trains 15:27:10 <Terkhen> I made a task requesting parameters for selecting certain train types (I'm interested mostly on the metro trains), and there is another one for region parameters 15:27:31 <Terkhen> but that was months ago :P 15:43:20 <V453000> @seen DJNekkid 15:43:20 <Webster> V453000: DJNekkid was last seen in #openttdcoop.devzone 6 weeks, 5 days, 16 hours, 57 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <DJNekkid> for example, the IC pax wagons will be a combination of 2nd class, 1st class, diner and sleeper 15:43:25 <V453000> might be some reason :p 15:43:42 <V453000> I also wanted to tell him that nutracks dont work with 2cc set, despite being recommended 15:44:03 <V453000> guess I will have to post it to the devzone :) 15:49:02 <Terkhen> hmmm... I see 15:49:40 <Terkhen> if it was on nml I would hack a metro only version for myself :P 15:51:00 <V453000> the metroes have too high capacity in my opinion :) a few metroes can supply a load of TGVs 15:51:14 <V453000> true , metroes can be tiny-short :) 15:51:17 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:51:35 <andythenorth> DJNekkid: BROS think you're AWOL :P 15:51:43 <andythenorth> :D 15:52:22 <Terkhen> V453000: that's why I use them, they are great for city transport :) 15:59:24 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2579 (New): Incompatibility with nutracks (V453000) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2579 15:59:24 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2580 (New): Incompatibility with nutracks (V453000) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2580 15:59:48 <V453000> oh ffs it is there twice :D 16:00:11 <V453000> planetmaker: could you please remove http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2579 ? :) thanks 16:07:56 <Yexo> V453000: can't you close it yourself? 16:08:51 <Yexo> anyway, it's gone now 16:09:37 <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Feature #1897 (Assigned): Class 365 (welshdragon) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1897#change-6642 16:41:21 <V453000> Yexo: I tried, but I couldnt, sorry for inconvenience :) thanks 16:48:11 <planetmaker> Yexo: only admins and project managers can delete topics or change the status from new to <whatever>. Others can't. 16:48:45 <planetmaker> project managers obviously only for their projects 16:59:04 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:18:30 <Brot6> fish: update from r618 to r619 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/fish/nightlies/r619 17:18:42 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r750), 32bpp-extra (r40), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r33), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r73), basecosts (r25), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), chips (r138), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1989), frenchtowns (r6), german-townnames (r33), grfcodec (r828), grfpack (r279), heqs (r605), 17:18:42 <Brot6> indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r7), metrotrackset (r56), narvs (r37), newgrf_makefile (r285), nml (r1323), nutracks (r186), ogfx-industries (r53), ogfx-landscape (r62), ogfx-rv (r80), ogfx-trains (r239), ogfx-trees (r42), opengfx (r658), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r202), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r31), ttrs (r36), worldairlinersset (r671) 17:39:30 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2580: Incompatibility with nutracks (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2580#change-6656 17:40:08 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2580 (Resolved): Incompatibility with nutracks (V453000) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2580 17:40:08 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2580 (Resolved): Incompatibility with nutracks (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2580#change-6657 19:50:21 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 659:4eac7ea57191: Change: Update the source image for farms and shores (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/4eac7ea57191 19:50:21 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 660:05f731d25dc5: Codechange: Use the same extension for all nml files (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/05f731d25dc5 20:48:11 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:53:07 <Yexo> <planetmaker> Yexo: only admins and project managers can delete topics or change the status from new to <whatever>. Others can't. <- I wasn't able to change the status, so I just deleted it 20:53:32 <Yexo> at least not without the workaround of making myself manager, changing status, removing myself as manager 20:53:38 <planetmaker> hm, maybe admins can only delete but not edit 20:59:05 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 22:03:18 *** Lakie has quit IRC 22:58:35 *** ODM has quit IRC 23:55:22 <Ammler> only members can change status 23:55:32 <Ammler> as admin, you aren't member 23:58:24 <Ammler> (members accoding to the workflow)