Log for #openttdcoop.devzone on 22nd May 2012:
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00:48:27  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 512:f476cddec006: Feature: New liveries to improve in-game recognition of... (Xotic750) @
00:49:19  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 513:25b02231e8e4: Feature: New livery models added (Xotic750) @
00:52:06  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 514:238cb051f830: Update: Change post-processing to try and improve liver... (Xotic750) @
00:53:43  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 515:b3dde52d1224: Fix: Remove 8bpp sharpen (Xotic750) @
01:01:28  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Code Review #3973: TIM and Asia Star Valuables Livery (Xotic750) @
01:40:00  <Brot6> Script Communication Protocol - Revision 32:6f03c51a4bda: - Change Check() so it return true if the ... (krinn) @
02:09:49  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 516:34dc6af26a7b: Fix: Incorrect object index (Xotic750) @
02:09:49  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 517:526eb8f34dec: Fix: Missing misc_flag for 2cc (Xotic750) @
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12:32:51  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 518:e8fe30ab11b4: Feature: Flatbed steel rolls (Xotic750) @
12:34:54  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Code Review #3973 (Closed): TIM and Asia Star Valuables Livery (Xotic750) @
12:39:27  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 519:1efdfe451460: Update: Changed loads for different stages (Xotic750) @
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13:46:50  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 520:494727582cd7: Feature: Refrigerated wagon (Xotic750) @
13:50:09  <planetmaker> psst, Xotic750, a "feature" is something the user sees ingame ;-)
13:50:33  <planetmaker> "Add: blender file for Refrigerated wagon" ;-)
13:51:00  <V453000> secret-feature :p
13:51:34  <planetmaker> "Feature: Make use of 32bpp sprites for refrigerated wagon"
13:55:11  <Xotic750> Point taken, they will see it very soon :)
13:58:43  <planetmaker> :-)
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15:07:54  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 521:dd41cb902464: Update: Small fixes of the blender models (Xotic750) @
15:15:02  <planetmaker> "2. provide parameter for available NUTS wagons with it (I guess that would be a good solution – if you loaded NUTS too, it would just overwrite them and nothing would really break)" <-- don't even consider that, V453000. It breaks. It breaks hard. In many possible ways
15:15:53  <planetmaker> Unless of course, you're a control freak of the kind "use my newgrfs and my newgrfs alone"
15:17:35  <planetmaker> But as I think you're interested in a good gaming experience rather than user control... :-)
16:12:06  <Terkhen> planetmaker: which patch? I only saw a repo
16:12:42  <planetmaker> ah, I posted a patch I think the the DutchTrainset issue tracker
16:13:05  <planetmaker> but don't worry, I'll update ogfx+rv :-)
16:13:38  <planetmaker> I found out that I should better change the filenames like s/Makefile.grf/Makefile_grf/ and alike
16:13:51  <planetmaker> less trouble with the global commit hook ;-)
16:15:26  <Terkhen> okay, thank you :)
16:16:48  <Brot6> Script Communication Protocol - Revision 33:428de3e7a21b: - Readd events handling : update reference... (krinn) @
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16:34:46  <Terkhen> planetmaker: do autorefit orders require any special conditions to allow you to use them?
16:35:17  <Terkhen> it seems that the wiki guys are slacking on documenting this feature :P
16:35:30  <planetmaker> :-D
16:35:46  <Terkhen> I tried to do the following
16:35:49  <planetmaker> No, it should "just work". But you need a special order to tell the vehicle to autorefit
16:36:16  <Terkhen> create a new road vehicle, order it to go to a station, select the order, click autorefit
16:36:26  <Terkhen> or refit, I don't remember what was the actual string
16:36:30  <Terkhen> but the button was greyed out
16:36:40  <planetmaker> like 'refit to available' or something. I don't recall exact wording either ;-)
16:37:05  <planetmaker> ofc, the vehicle needs to define the autorefit callback. And allow refit in station
16:37:33  <Terkhen> it should, I was trying to test my code :P
16:37:45  <Terkhen> let me grab a nightly of ogfx-trains to test with it too
16:37:50  <Terkhen> I'm probably doing something stupid
16:38:05  <planetmaker> I haven't tested it for a long time, tbh
16:38:17  <planetmaker> Let's check...
16:42:37  <Terkhen> I'm trying to download the repository but it's failing :P
16:42:41  <Terkhen> let's take even smaller steps
16:44:01  <planetmaker> doesn't work...
16:45:53  <Terkhen> :/
16:46:07  <Terkhen> but you didn't change that code, right? nml changes maybe?
16:46:36  <planetmaker> I'm not aware of having changed autorefit code. Ofc the change you suggested by moving it to the cargo file
16:46:43  <planetmaker> But... that's more a moving it around than a change
16:50:22  <planetmaker> I'll test with the version r510 which has that change not yet. If it's not that, I'll try to bisect
16:50:43  <planetmaker> I wonder though whether I should bisect NML or ogfx-trains ;-)
16:50:47  <planetmaker> or openttd :-P
16:51:02  <planetmaker> wanna share work on that?
16:51:06  <planetmaker> ^ Terkhen
16:51:20  <planetmaker> you test one, I the other?
16:51:32  <planetmaker> (unless you have a good idea what might have broken it)
16:53:10  <planetmaker> bah... building ogfx-trains takes about ages :-(
16:56:24  <Terkhen> planetmaker: sure
16:56:30  <Terkhen> right now I'm updating ogfx-trains
16:56:35  <Terkhen> I'm still at r360 :P
16:56:41  <Terkhen> in which revision was the feature introduced?
16:57:10  <planetmaker> autorefit?
16:57:45  <planetmaker> 260
16:58:22  <planetmaker> or rather r255 ... 260
17:01:00  <planetmaker> Terkhen: do I have your ssh key? I'd then install it on the devzone... easier pulling
17:04:16  <Terkhen> I have to generate a new one
17:04:33  <Terkhen> ok, I'll start at 255 :)
17:04:34  <planetmaker> don't you have one for OpenTTD?
17:04:51  <planetmaker> Terkhen: use r260, not earlier
17:04:57  <planetmaker> or only some vehicles will have it
17:05:03  <Terkhen> same one I lost when I deleted some data
17:05:10  <planetmaker> like r255 adds the principle idea without activating it anywhere
17:05:17  <Terkhen> ok, r260 then :)
17:05:24  <Terkhen> I'll create a new key first
17:07:03  <planetmaker> Terkhen: nmlc --version: r1887 (a9b21222c654)
17:08:50  <Terkhen> ok
17:11:05  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 522:b1407049db15: Add: Blender files for different tank wagons (Xotic750) @
17:11:15  <planetmaker> Terkhen: ogfx-trains 0.3.0 has autorefit (the bananas version)
17:11:31  <planetmaker> I'll try to re-compile it with current nml and see
17:13:11  <planetmaker> and that is r294
17:17:11  <Terkhen> planetmaker: <--- do you need anything else?
17:17:34  <planetmaker> that will suffice
17:18:33  <Terkhen> ok, thanks :)
17:19:04  <planetmaker> should be functional now for all repos on the devzone
17:19:10  <Terkhen> awesome :)
17:22:01  <Terkhen> planetmaker: are you sure that's the nmlc version used? r260 of ogfx-trains contains undefined identifiers with nml r1887
17:22:19  <Terkhen> oh, r1887 is the tip
17:22:22  <planetmaker> Terkhen: for ogfx-trains 0.3.0: ofc not
17:22:26  <Terkhen> ok :P
17:22:29  * Terkhen checks
17:29:11  <Terkhen> planetmaker: r260 works, I'll check newer versions now
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17:47:21  <Terkhen> huh...
17:47:30  <Terkhen> this bisecting is being harder than I thought
17:48:17  <planetmaker> more lengthy...
17:49:07  <Terkhen> most of the time I'm getting unrelated problems such as "no vehicles" (I had to reset parameters) or undefined identifiers because of a day difference in nml versions :P
17:49:24  <Terkhen> r299 works
17:51:09  <Terkhen> planetmaker: r310 and similar don't compile at all with the correct nml version because of "Unrecognized identifier 'BIT_DEPTH_32BPP'"
17:52:56  <planetmaker> he :-)
17:53:05  <planetmaker> I try it all with current NML
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17:55:01  <Terkhen> planetmaker: I get the same error with current NML
17:55:16  <Terkhen> they are only 2, 3 revisions apart
17:55:19  <planetmaker> Terkhen: r1887 NML compiles r300 ogfx-trains and it allows auto-refit
17:55:59  <Terkhen> try r310
17:56:07  <Terkhen> I tried r299 and it still worked
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18:03:44  <planetmaker> Terkhen: yes, about r300 xotic started to add 32bpp stuff. There the new NML only will build it which supports it
18:05:21  <Terkhen> I need an special NML?
18:05:24  <Terkhen> :/
18:06:49  <planetmaker> no, just the current one, I think
18:07:12  <planetmaker> I'll try r310
18:07:36  <Terkhen> ok
18:07:52  <Terkhen> meanwhile I'll try to finish cloning ogfx-trains up to the latest revision
18:08:04  <Terkhen> pulling 5 revisions each time takes a long time
18:08:19  <planetmaker> oh, change to pull via ssh :-)
18:08:40  <planetmaker> default = ssh://
18:09:15  <Terkhen> oh
18:09:23  <Terkhen> nice, I did not think of that :P
18:09:58  <planetmaker> that's why I asked you about your key ;-)
18:10:38  <frosch123> and the reason it is not fixed for http :p
18:11:05  <Terkhen> there, fetching
18:11:15  <planetmaker> I was hoping for ammler to figure out :-P
18:11:42  <planetmaker> he's orders of magnitude more familiar with the http setup than me
18:16:47  <planetmaker> Terkhen: r310 seems to build for me
18:16:59  <planetmaker> with nml r1887
18:23:12  <Terkhen> I'll try again once that I'm done with the clone
18:23:36  <planetmaker> :-D
18:31:09  <planetmaker> Terkhen: building the newer versions unfortunately is very slow for me... 12 minutes or so... Just beware of it ;-)
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18:34:03  <Terkhen> planetmaker:
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18:34:21  <Terkhen> nml is updated up to r1887, I have no idea why it reports r1885
18:37:35  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 523:73cb6c155383: Add: Render run of steel rolls and refrigerated wagon (Xotic750) @
18:38:28  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 524:ee6671ce3dee: Add: Post-process run of steel rolls and refrigerated w... (Xotic750) @
18:38:55  <planetmaker> hg up?
18:39:12  <planetmaker> or do you have two versions, one in repo, one in path?
18:40:21  <Terkhen> hg up does nothing, I only have the repo version, the path nmlc is a symbolic link to the repo nmlc
18:40:51  <planetmaker> what does hg parent give you?
18:41:17  <Terkhen> changeset:   1885:02012e2ad87d
18:41:40  <Terkhen> hmm... I don't remember switching branches though
18:42:13  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 525:c696879ea908: Feature: Make use of 32bpp sprites for refrigerated wag... (Xotic750) @
18:42:13  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 526:7deefcc8ce08: Feature: Make use of 32bpp sprites for steel rolls (Xotic750) @
18:44:39  <Terkhen> planetmaker: it seems to be working now, thanks :)
18:45:39  <planetmaker> what? Autorefit?
18:45:44  <planetmaker> or "just" nml?
18:46:09  <Terkhen> just nml :P
18:46:21  * planetmaker builds ogfx-trains r400. r480 didn't work for me.
18:46:30  <Terkhen> I'll continue with testing, I'll try r350
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18:52:30  <Terkhen> planetmaker: r350 works, I'll try r375
18:56:25  <planetmaker> Terkhen: r400 seems to work. Though funkily it shows up here as r347M ...
18:56:37  <planetmaker> so don't abort, but test r350 :-)
18:59:06  <planetmaker> I guess due to broken Makefile :-P
18:59:17  <Terkhen> planetmaker: autorefit in stations works in r375
18:59:24  <Terkhen> so we need to test r400-r480?
18:59:52  <planetmaker> yeah
19:02:52  <planetmaker> @base 16 10 af0
19:02:52  <Webster> planetmaker: 2800
19:02:59  <planetmaker> base 16 10 f0a
19:03:08  <planetmaker> @base 16 10 f0a
19:03:08  <Webster> planetmaker: 3850
19:03:35  <Terkhen> testing r440
19:07:34  <Terkhen> planetmaker: r440 works, testing r460
19:07:46  <planetmaker> aye, you're fast :-)
19:08:51  <planetmaker> Terkhen: o  default	445:effa7cc1d587|planetmaker Codechange #3763: Make use of explicit cargo support and remove use of 'refittable_cargo_types'
19:08:52  <Brot6> planetmaker: Terkhen: #3763 is "Code Review #3763: replace refittable_cargo_types - OpenGFX+ Trains - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
19:09:04  <planetmaker> most probable the cause then
19:09:52  <Terkhen> yes, I missed having linux, this is quite fast :P
19:10:02  <planetmaker> :-)
19:10:58  <planetmaker> that commit, I overlooked. It would change some (many?) cargos. But should not change refittability.
19:18:28  <Terkhen> planetmaker: so having r350 displayed inside OpenTTD even when I compiled another revision is to be expected?
19:18:55  <planetmaker> I had that, yes. You compiled r350 once before, yes?
19:19:11  <Terkhen> yes
19:19:17  <Terkhen> r460 is broken, trying r444
19:19:25  <planetmaker> rm .version && touch src/ogfx-trains.pnml && rm *.dep && make install :-P
19:19:48  <planetmaker> ogfx-trains also dearly needs a Makefile fix
19:19:54  <Terkhen> regarding the r350 error:
19:20:08  <Terkhen> it's the first time that I can't make a makefile error go away with hg purge --all :P
19:20:11  <planetmaker> yeah
19:20:25  <Terkhen> hmm... maybe I did not try purge this time
19:20:28  <planetmaker> hm, ok. I never tried that
19:20:30  <Terkhen> I've been doing it a lot today
19:20:46  <planetmaker> yeah, the Makefile in this repo sucks, tbh :-)
19:37:09  <Terkhen> planetmaker: r444 does not work
19:37:18  <Terkhen> testing r442
19:37:43  <Terkhen> but it is strange...
19:37:56  <Terkhen> it must be r445, there is nothing besides graphics between r440 and r445
19:49:57  <Terkhen> hmm... now r440 does not work, I'll compile with hg purge --all && make install from now on to make sure I'm not messing up revisions
19:53:10  <planetmaker> how do you test "works" and "doesn't work", Terkhen? New game? reload_newgrfs? rescan newgrfs and change newgrfs in running game?
19:55:54  <Terkhen> new game
19:56:06  <planetmaker> hm
19:56:15  <Terkhen> create depot, station, create train with flatbed wagon, assign order, check if I can autorefit in that station
19:57:08  <Terkhen> time for dinner, bbl
19:57:34  <planetmaker> bon appetit
19:58:13  <frosch123> hmm, how many projects will have to switch to 32bpp till the devzone disk is full? :p
20:00:24  <frosch123> ah, pull finished
20:03:51  <planetmaker> he
20:04:19  <planetmaker> 6 Gigabytes to go
20:04:38  <frosch123> ogfx-trains is at 670 MB
20:04:45  <frosch123> growing by 100MB a month or so
20:04:52  <planetmaker> that's a hellish size
20:05:23  <planetmaker> tbh I see not how to do it much more efficiently. Unless you want days of build time
20:06:04  <planetmaker> though... unless maybe really only blender files and final sprites. Might save a bit. Not sure exactly how much, though
20:06:06  <frosch123> well, i just don't understand how so few trains add up to so much :)
20:06:16  <planetmaker> they changed a few times
20:06:29  <frosch123> if i take widelands, it has only 469 MB repository, and it feels like a lot more graphics to me
20:07:01  <planetmaker> does it have all models etc?
20:07:59  <frosch123> it has .png, though argueable no zoom levels
20:08:01  <planetmaker> the single sprites in widelands are not terribly big
20:08:08  <planetmaker> that sounds more like opengfx 8bpp then
20:08:28  <planetmaker> here the single blend files are about half a megabyte each
20:11:00  <planetmaker>
20:11:46  <planetmaker> we could skip 210M	./sprite_source/blender/rendered
20:12:02  <planetmaker> as that technically is an intermediate step
20:12:55  <planetmaker> maybe we should
20:13:02  <planetmaker> Not sure how much Xotic750 would like it
20:13:04  <frosch123> well, why is it 210M anyway?
20:13:12  <frosch123> the resulting grf is only 14M
20:13:28  <planetmaker> that dir contains the output of blender
20:13:30  <Xotic750> it would mean that I can only work from the 1 pc instead of 3 :)
20:13:43  <planetmaker> Those files there are then still post-processed to become the final sprites
20:14:18  <planetmaker> why does it mean that, Xotic750?
20:14:46  <Xotic750> it would be a nightmare if I had to render the raw images each time I use a different pc
20:15:53  <Xotic750> I'd never get anything done
20:16:07  <planetmaker> wouldn't an intermediate file storage suffice?
20:16:39  <planetmaker> frosch123 has a certain point. It takes me a minute meanwhile along to update locally from one rev to another
20:17:11  <Xotic750> isn't it possible to do something like I did with my git project and create the raw images as a sub-project that only get pulled if you recurse?
20:17:37  <planetmaker> it's feasible to put the raw images in a separate repo. Yes
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20:18:17  <planetmaker> But they still would be pulled when you update to <rev>
20:18:35  <planetmaker> there's a "largefile" extension for hg as well
20:18:45  <planetmaker> which will only transmit the large files of the rev which you query
20:19:16  <planetmaker> But both, the use of "real" sub repos as well as the large file extension are officially discouraged to use as in "only use, if there's no other way"
20:19:28  <planetmaker> "as they break fundamental core concepts of hg"
20:20:56  <planetmaker>
20:20:56  <Xotic750> it is really only a problem when using http though as I have had no issues since moving to ssh
20:20:56  <Webster> Title: FeaturesOfLastResort - Mercurial (at
20:21:33  <planetmaker> Xotic750: as said: I've the whole repo here. Trying to update from tip to, say, r400, that takes w/o any network access considerable time
20:23:04  <Xotic750> I don't really know what else to suggest, as the raw images are the ones that anyone that wants to work on improving the sprites, other than in that actual model, will need
20:24:26  <Xotic750> for example, if you want to apply some kind of compositing to lighten or darken the shadows
20:24:52  <Xotic750> and then post-process those changes down to the actual zoom level sprites
20:25:05  <Xotic750> so that you keep the best quality
20:27:01  <Xotic750> it probably doesn't help, at the moment, that I am still developing techniques and improving things
20:27:16  <Xotic750> and hence need to re-render everything about once a week
20:27:32  <Xotic750> though that should get less and less as time goes on
20:27:38  <planetmaker> Xotic750: it "doesn't help", but... that's how development work. Please don't consider it in any form criticism of your work
20:27:44  <planetmaker> it surely is not. Not meant to
20:28:36  <Xotic750> I haven't, but of course I want to make life easier for people if possible
20:29:16  <Xotic750> I have considered making a change to which raw images are currently kept
20:30:01  <planetmaker> <-- Xotic750
20:30:09  <Xotic750> if I split the images into shadow components then I calculate that I could save around another 10-15% in disk space
20:30:23  <Xotic750> but it will reuire much more post-processing work
20:30:38  <Xotic750> and I would need to go back and alter all my model files again
20:30:52  <Xotic750> something I don't feel much like doing just now :)
20:30:55  <planetmaker> that would make that considerably more difficult, I guess
20:31:30  <frosch123> oh damn.... i wanted to run ogfx trains through grf2html, but it does not have container v2 support :s
20:31:47  <Xotic750> it's just a time consuming change to be done
20:32:03  <Xotic750> and could easily take me 2 weeks to do the conversion
20:32:22  <planetmaker> for 10% storage gain? Sounds not worth it, Xotic750
20:33:33  <Xotic750> I tyhink it would be worth it eventually, but for now I'd like to get models done, and materials and lighting all perfected
20:33:34  <planetmaker> especially if it means that all subsequent post-processing work will take considerably longer (if I got that right)
20:33:37  <frosch123> awesome... grfcodec fails to decode it :p
20:33:45  <planetmaker> :-O
20:33:58  <planetmaker> what does it say, frosch123?
20:34:08  <frosch123> Error: not enough data to perform regular decoding for sprite 358
20:34:55  <planetmaker> hrmpf... largefiles extension needs hg 2.0+
20:35:47  <planetmaker> Ammler: is there an easy way to upgrade to hg 2.0 (or 2.2 when we're at it) server-side?
20:36:06  <frosch123> ah, i guess that is #3942
20:36:06  <Brot6> frosch123: ah: #3942 is "Bug #3942: Corrupt encoding of container version 2 GRF - GRFCodec - #openttdcoop Development Zone"
20:36:57  <planetmaker> hm...
20:37:39  <Xotic750> I have created a backup of the project on bitbucket
20:37:41  <Xotic750>
20:37:43  <Webster> Title: Log in to your Bitbucket account (at
20:38:16  <planetmaker> well, we also have backups :-). I guess frosch and Terkhen now have backups, too ;-)
20:38:26  <planetmaker> (the joy of dvcs :-) )
20:38:52  <Terkhen> the more the merrier
20:39:12  <planetmaker> I should seriously look at the largefiles extension
20:39:15  <Xotic750> so at least there, people can sign up, upload a rsa key and use ssh to download it
20:39:24  <planetmaker> :-D
20:39:26  <Terkhen> oh, nice :)
20:39:53  <frosch123> yeah, currently only premium devzone members have a backup of it :p
20:41:09  <Terkhen> well, "normal" users can also clone ogfx-rv
20:41:13  <Terkhen> as long as they are patient enough
20:46:31  <Terkhen> err, ogfx-trains
20:46:32  <Terkhen> :P
20:46:48  <Xotic750> :)
20:46:54  <Ammler> planetmaker: updated to 2.2.1
20:47:14  <Ammler> but it might need update of the webhg
20:48:08  <planetmaker> oh, nice, Ammler :-)
20:49:45  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 527:d70e3d98db57: Add: Render run of tank cargo models (Xotic750) @
20:52:55  <planetmaker> Ammler: btw, 2.2.1 has also a nice feature for local use: hg commit --amend :-)
20:52:55  *** Brot6 has quit IRC
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20:57:26  <frosch123> night
20:57:29  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
21:00:28  <Xotic750> planetmaker: do you have any nice mature savegames that I could have for testing graphics, especially ones for FIRS cargoes
21:02:05  <planetmaker> let me look...
21:02:27  <planetmaker> I've some, though they might be partially broken. But you  know the newgrf developer tools to mess with newgrfs ;-)
21:04:42  <Xotic750> anything will be good,as I have only been testing the basic stuff. I haven't even seen many of my sprite in-game yet :P
21:05:02  <Terkhen> I suggest enabling many AIs and let them do the work for you :)
21:05:05  <Terkhen> good night
21:05:36  <Xotic750> lol, I would but I have 3 machines busy crunching stuff out :P
21:06:50  <Xotic750> I really need to find a rendering farm, quite badly :)
21:08:12  <planetmaker>
21:08:37  <planetmaker> Terkh3n's suggestion to have AI play for you may sound strange but actually is a very good idea
21:08:46  <planetmaker> I use(d) it often for testing, too ;-)
21:09:11  <planetmaker> Ammler: rendering farm... do you feel like setting up such a VM for Xotic ?
21:09:47  <planetmaker> maybe the currently dormant test VM we have?
21:10:06  <Xotic750> I did find a free one online, but they haven't caught up with the software yet, so it doesn't work
21:10:17  <planetmaker> he
21:10:31  <planetmaker> it *just* needs config here ;-)
21:10:38  <planetmaker> the "just" is the issue :-P
21:10:44  <Xotic750> :)
21:11:29  <planetmaker> I hope those 3 games can somewhat still serve as test games. You migth want to update forcefully both, ogfx+trains and FIRS
21:11:42  <planetmaker> it will break some things, but for this testing purpose it might not matter
21:11:47  <Xotic750> yep, thanks, I will give them a try
21:12:10  <planetmaker> I need to play a decent game again, I think ;-)
21:12:19  <Xotic750> it's maily to see what things look like, I don't have the spare cyccles to actually play a game :P
21:12:27  <planetmaker> :D
21:12:28  <Ammler>  planetmaker, why can't we use our usualy build env to do the rednering?
21:12:50  <planetmaker> Ammler: it should not be done during grf building but separately
21:13:06  <planetmaker> manually called / triggered on whatever input
21:13:23  <Ammler> because?
21:13:25  <planetmaker> or... dunno, how Xotic750 does it actually :-) ^
21:13:29  <planetmaker> Ammler: build time
21:13:39  <Ammler> why does build time matter?
21:13:50  <planetmaker> it t_build > 24h?
21:14:09  <Xotic750> it takes about 4 days, spread across my 3 old laptops
21:14:18  <Ammler> ok :-D
21:14:20  <Xotic750> for a complete render and post-process run
21:14:59  <Xotic750> how I works at the moment, is I make some changes or new models, render a single test view
21:15:16  <Xotic750> then when I'm happy and want to see what it all comes out like ...
21:15:29  <Ammler> planetmaker: well, I see no issue to give you a own container
21:15:30  <Xotic750> I start the
21:15:38  <planetmaker> Ammler: thus my idea a VM with one or two cores which can do the work
21:15:39  <Ammler> or does it really need to be a vm?
21:15:41  <Xotic750> then when that finishes I run the
21:16:05  <planetmaker> no, could as well be a container. It just should not make our server's other services fail, if the render runs
21:16:09  <Xotic750> then we have sprites, and then a make
21:16:10  <Ammler> I would say, we try it with a caontainer
21:16:32  <Ammler> Xotic750: which (linux) distro do you prefer?
21:17:21  <Xotic750> I'm using fedora 16, but it doesn't make any odds to me, can be unbuntu or solaris or anything (even windows, no scratch that :P :P)
21:17:32  <Ammler> fedora should be fine
21:18:08  <Ammler> or centos
21:18:15  <Xotic750> then I need bash, blender 2.63a and GIMP
21:18:24  <Xotic750> yep, anything like that is fine
21:19:04  <Ammler> well, we give you the base os, it would be good, if you could setup it on your own
21:19:26  <Ammler> full root access provided
21:19:34  <Xotic750> no problem, bash and gimp normally come with all distros
21:19:49  <Xotic750> ok
21:19:49  <Ammler> and the rest should be easy with yum
21:19:53  <Xotic750> yep
21:20:11  <Xotic750> or yep tum :P
21:20:16  <Xotic750> *yum
21:20:22  <Ammler> let me check, if we have a current centos template, ^Spike^?
21:20:48  <Ammler> I would guess there is no such new fedora, so centos I would prefer
21:21:29  <Xotic750> centos will be fine for me
21:21:40  <Ammler> how much diskspace do you need?
21:22:06  <Xotic750> currently the repo stands at around 700Mb
21:22:28  <Ammler> how much ram do you expect to be used on active time?
21:22:38  <Xotic750> then during render it requires about 1.3Gb of free space
21:23:05  <Xotic750> I use about 500Mb of ram during render and post-processing max
21:23:21  <Ammler> oh well, that doesn't sound much
21:23:26  <Xotic750> I do some of it on a machine with only 1Gb
21:23:34  <^Spike^> we do have a c6 template it probably needs updates when installed though...
21:24:01  <^Spike^> shamefully not as simple as the click of the button to update a template
21:24:33  <Xotic750> not a simple, yum update, from a shell?
21:24:58  <^Spike^> startup container.. update.. strip container of all info package container put container in as template
21:25:25  <Xotic750> tbh, it doesn't neeed to be that up to date
21:25:55  <Xotic750> any bash is fine
21:26:04  <Xotic750> gimp needs to be recent only
21:26:16  <Xotic750> and blender 2.63a is self contained mostly
21:26:31  <^Spike^> i don't know about gimp versions
21:26:35  <planetmaker> Xotic750: I'm sure gimp 2.6 will do and you don't need gimp 2.8 ;-)
21:26:46  <^Spike^> i do happen to be logged into a container atm
21:26:52  <planetmaker> (I'm still waiting for that gimp binary. The source seems tagged a long time now)
21:26:53  <Xotic750> 2.6 is what I'm using
21:27:31  <planetmaker> :-)
21:27:46  <^Spike^> gimp 2.6.9 seems to be in c6 base repo
21:27:58  <Xotic750> fine
21:29:41  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 528:011abde47e9f: Add: Post-process run of tank cargo models (Xotic750) @
21:29:58  <planetmaker> hm... did you see the last mail, Ammler, from hg?
21:30:46  <planetmaker> looks like a failure of hggit
21:31:24  <Ammler> planetmaker: but redmine works?
21:31:53  <Ammler> Xotic750: vz made
21:31:53  <planetmaker> I didn't extensively test. Main page loads
21:32:22  <Ammler> server:, port: 11322
21:32:29  <Ammler> your key is installed for user root
21:32:46  <Ammler> there is yet no other port forwared than ssh
21:32:51  <Xotic750> ok, I will give it a whirl
21:33:26  <Ammler> the nameserver should distinguish internal services
21:33:40  <Ammler> like has ip etc.
21:33:53  <Ammler> so just use names, no ips and report possible issues
21:34:01  <Xotic750> ok, cheers
21:34:57  <Xotic750> login successful
21:35:50  <Ammler> oh, I guess no need to say, but please do no bad stuff with that server :-)
21:36:03  <Xotic750> ;)
21:36:12  <planetmaker> Ammler: is there some cpu limit on it?
21:36:32  <Ammler> well, the limit are the used cores, afaik
21:36:36  <Xotic750> do I have to do everything as root, or can I create an unpriv user?
21:36:46  <planetmaker> better create such user :-)
21:36:50  <Ammler> Xotic750: you should
21:36:55  <Xotic750> ok
21:37:01  <Ammler> basically never do stuff as root :-)
21:37:15  <Xotic750> I never do, only when needed
21:37:24  <planetmaker> basically you got root so that you can install the tools you need ;-)
21:37:36  <^Spike^> never do stuff as root.....
21:37:39  * ^Spike^ checks HW node
21:37:44  <^Spike^> no comment
21:38:03  <planetmaker> HW?
21:38:07  <^Spike^> hardware node
21:38:22  <Ammler> he peeks on me :-P
21:38:27  <^Spike^> which in our case is just 1
21:38:46  <^Spike^> i already commented on that the moment i got root access... :)
21:39:39  <Ammler> and what would you not do as root there?
21:40:17  <Ammler> well, the "ubuntu" sudo is simply stupid
21:40:31  <planetmaker> why?
21:40:54  <Ammler> why what?
21:40:56  <planetmaker> you can assign the sudo righty by command basically to all users individually
21:41:36  <Ammler> that is not what I meant with "ubuntu sudo"
21:42:01  <Ammler> they do root stuff with user pw
21:44:06  <planetmaker> yes. Actually, so do I on my laptop
21:44:06  <Ammler> Xotic750: of course I meant with "never do stuff as root" also "never use sudo" :-)
21:44:36  <Xotic750> I don't have sudo installed :)
21:45:00  <Xotic750> if I need root, I su
21:46:55  <Ammler> and also the "never" means, if you don't know better ;-)
21:47:48  <planetmaker> Ammler: is my key on that machine, too?
21:47:59  <Xotic750> you could say I have a pretty good idea :)
21:48:00  <Ammler> you need to request that from Xotic750
21:48:07  <planetmaker> :-P
21:48:10  <Ammler> but you have root access to every container anyway
21:48:33  <^Spike^> : gimp
21:48:33  <^Spike^> Arch
21:48:36  <planetmaker> yeah, I just wanted to know which way I need to go ;-)
21:48:47  <^Spike^> bleh... something with clipboard
21:49:00  <planetmaker> :-)
21:50:15  *** NataS is now known as Nat_AFK
21:50:17  <Xotic750> am I allowed to change the root password?
21:50:45  <Ammler> maybe also install munin on that
21:51:00  <Ammler> Xotic750: you basically need to or do you know it?
21:51:06  <^Spike^> if it takes up too many resource vzctl stop ctid works :)
21:51:18  <Xotic750> nope, don't know it but wondered if you needed it left as is
21:51:31  <Ammler> I just set a random string
21:51:35  <^Spike^> vzctl enter ctid gives us proper permissions should we need to do something
21:51:36  <Xotic750> ok
21:51:43  <^Spike^> so you can change it
21:51:47  <^Spike^> if you feel like it
21:51:51  <Ammler> I usually disable root login via pw
21:52:12  <Ammler> (ssh)
21:52:25  <planetmaker> it should be disabled
21:52:29  <planetmaker> only via key
21:53:35  <Ammler> planetmaker: people go the silly way via user and then su
21:53:58  <Ammler> so they might need the root pw
21:54:04  <Ammler> or sudo :-P
21:54:56  <planetmaker> nah. I rather ssh as root and then su to user ;-P
21:55:05  <planetmaker> no pw needed then ;-)
21:55:27  <Ammler> well, the other way, we could have a log, who made the last big "root mistake" :-P
21:55:29  <^Spike^> i got a standard habit these days.. login on server.. type sudo su -
21:55:33  <Xotic750> I think I've done all my root work already :P
21:55:39  <^Spike^> something with work and logging in as user needing to do work as root
21:55:49  <planetmaker> :-)
21:55:53  <^Spike^> even at home i do it... where i don't need to do it at all
21:56:22  <planetmaker> ofc
21:56:33  <planetmaker> it's the foundations of security
21:57:22  <Ammler> well, if you do sudo su, you bypass it
21:57:33  <^Spike^> security... truecrypt an usb drive with passwords and hidden partitions....
21:57:37  <Ammler> then you could as good login as root directly like we do
21:57:42  <^Spike^> something with hacks and working late i remember from last month
21:57:46  <^Spike^> fun weeks....
21:58:11  <Ammler> or sudo bash
22:00:34  * planetmaker remembers bed and wishes a good night to all :-)
22:00:52  <^Spike^> ehm... probably should too
22:01:29  <Xotic750> gn
22:02:11  <Ammler> Xotic750: maybe you could also install munin so we could add it to
22:02:30  <Xotic750> ok
22:02:45  <Ammler> (just munin-node afaik)
22:02:55  <Xotic750> will try
22:04:00  <Xotic750> it's not yum installable then?
22:04:28  <Ammler> it should
22:04:34  <Ammler> else no need
22:04:53  <Xotic750> yum doesn't find anything by that name
22:05:02  <Ammler> we have partial data already like
22:06:43  <Ammler> well, first you need to check, if it is useable at all
22:06:44  <Ammler> 
22:07:35  <Ammler> I have also no clue how well the default limits works
22:08:12  <Xotic750> I will give it a try very soon, mostly ready
22:08:44  <Ammler> will you need other service accessable like web or so?
22:09:21  <Xotic750> nope, just blender,gimp and hg I think is fine
22:09:38  <Xotic750> I just need cpu cycles :)
22:09:41  <Ammler> hg just as client?
22:09:45  <Xotic750> yepo
22:10:18  <Ammler> yeah, then let it run and check how well it works, and when it works, if our other services still work :-P
22:11:14  <Xotic750> :)
22:12:30  <Xotic750> I should be able to clone the repo with this yes?
22:12:31  <Xotic750>  hg clone ssh:// ogfx-trains
22:14:42  <Xotic750> gives me
22:14:43  <Xotic750> remote: /bin/sh: ssh: command not found
22:14:43  <Xotic750> abort: no suitable response from remote hg!
22:15:24  <planetmaker> you didn't install your key on that VM
22:15:41  <planetmaker> on that user which uses that HG
22:15:49  <Xotic750> hmm, I'm sure I did, but will check
22:15:51  <planetmaker> you probably also don't want to do that
22:16:05  <planetmaker> as it needs the private one. Rather... generate another
22:16:09  <Xotic750> no, not best but without a seperate key
22:19:40  *** Brot6 has quit IRC
22:20:06  <Xotic750> ok, I have a new pub key
22:20:25  *** Brot6 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone
22:21:16  <Xotic750> can someone add it for me?
22:22:14  <Xotic750> if I can email it to you?
22:42:56  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 529:aea353a07cb0: Feature: Make use of 32bpp sprites for tank cargoes (Xotic750) @
22:52:29  <planetmaker> it's a pub key. paste it
22:54:16  <Xotic750> ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAABIwAAAQEAuWW6QmpCpln7YnIlmdJIehtY/2BASW9SV9XCySd/oSiTk3PX78SJwnklxgk5AvYjQwM2PWQuqSbDSdoqbMv1KNdg9lTmaYn73Y2SLOo+N4GQxBsEyd3WUNPhMGq4U5k4cFecRtT1O2lWXWSzbGoqgqkKwQqH36dDUmX9L8K76lgAPWrttm8r7h0f4YbN/M9T2wDTQ8ZFHfwsTkYo73uhX//56rIZh4QDS6SIW5hd3gSlHrvc0EPUiXs2DQLZv7BZzgAd/18Zq6wH6Sq/tVArW2Ga8jDQc3AYyaRnivQQkDoji99obHp0qjK3+l8BmeKLIv0I6HppoS93Crdj2nzCQQ==
22:57:40  <planetmaker> try now
22:58:37  <Xotic750> ok, will do
23:00:10  <Xotic750> same
23:00:11  <Xotic750> remote: /bin/sh: ssh: command not found
23:00:11  <Xotic750> abort: no suitable response from remote hg!
23:08:48  <Xotic750> I must need something more installed locally, it does the same with the bitbucket repo
23:09:09  <Xotic750> but https works from my bitbucket repo
23:09:21  <Xotic750> but not the openttdcoop
23:18:44  *** Zuu has quit IRC
23:26:45  <Xotic750> ok, openssh-clients was not installed locally :)
23:45:01  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 530:48ec6eac3e5f: Add: Render run all models after library changes (Xotic750) @
23:45:43  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 531:3caec6a6a668: Add: Post-processing run all models after library chang... (Xotic750) @
23:55:26  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 532:7434e947f602: Feature: Make use of 32bpp sprites for decicated livery (Xotic750) @
23:55:26  <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Trains - Revision 533:fa61ac180302: Feature: Make use of 32bpp sprites for ENSP and VEHICLE... (Xotic750) @

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