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00:01:49 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Tschüß"] 00:05:38 *** Artea35 [i=xtreme@bl7-208-143.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 00:05:38 *** Artea_ [i=xtreme@bl7-208-143.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:12:06 *** Trenskow [n=outlet@85.218.142.227] has quit ["Read error: Connection reset by sortepeer"] 00:12:37 *** BJH_ [n=chatzill@e176101113.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 00:15:27 *** exe_ [n=dfsfd@pub82.brzesko.net.pl] has left #openttd [] 00:21:05 *** exe_ [n=dfsfd@pub82.brzesko.net.pl] has joined #openttd 00:22:49 *** Ihmemies [i=ihmemies@a88-113-31-191.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit ["Signed off"] 00:23:57 *** BJH [n=chatzill@e176121110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:35:32 *** Mukke [i=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has quit [] 00:46:54 *** exe_ [n=dfsfd@pub82.brzesko.net.pl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:51:16 <kbrooks> heh 00:51:38 *** exe_ [n=dfsfd@pub82.brzesko.net.pl] has joined #openttd 00:52:11 <kbrooks> I have a question 00:52:32 <kbrooks> How do I increase the perfomance of a company 01:08:40 *** Wolfensteijn [n=wolf@a61229.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 01:08:42 *** Artea35 [i=xtreme@bl7-208-143.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:10:06 *** Wolfy [n=wolf@a61229.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:19:42 *** glx [i=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Bye!"] 01:24:27 *** roboboy is now known as roboman 01:55:06 *** The-Moon [n=The-Moon@c-68-45-84-249.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)"] 02:09:05 *** Belugas [n=Jfranc@216.191.111.226] has joined #openttd 02:18:58 *** Artea_ [i=xtreme@bl7-208-143.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 02:19:47 *** Artea_ is now known as Artea 02:20:08 *** Belugas_Gone [n=Jfranc@216.191.111.226] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:31:09 *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone 03:01:17 *** Schamane_ [n=schamane@p5498D9FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 03:02:35 *** BJH_ [n=chatzill@e176101113.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]"] 03:05:01 *** egladil_ibook [n=egladil@h31n3fls301o1035.telia.com] has joined #openttd 03:15:57 *** egladil [n=egladil@h31n3fls301o1035.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:16:05 *** The-Moon [n=The-Moon@c-68-45-84-249.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 03:18:23 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498E911.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:07:38 *** MrRexxie [n=rexxars@ti131310a080-10608.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 04:07:39 *** Rexxie [n=rexxars@ti131310a080-10608.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:10:55 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k886.webspeed.dk] has quit ["Go on, get out. Last words are for fools who haven't said enough. - Karl Marx"] 04:59:40 *** wolf^_ [n=wolf@team.pld-linux.org] has joined #openttd 04:59:52 *** wolf^ [n=wolf@pld-linux/wolf] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:00:04 *** KUDr_wrk [n=KUDr@195.39.113.200] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:00:38 *** wolf^_ is now known as wolf^ 05:28:53 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-201-101.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:41:26 *** exe_ [n=dfsfd@pub82.brzesko.net.pl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:51:47 *** Zaviori [n=asdadsq@d195-237-7-253.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 05:53:21 *** Celestar [n=Jadzia_D@galadriel.td.mw.tum.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:53:37 *** Netsplit zelazny.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: hapo, toweri, Kalpa, Schamane_, CIA-3, Oak_, HackyKid, Eddi|zuHause, LIIT, roboman, (+13 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 05:54:51 *** Netsplit 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[n=Osai@p54B377DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 07:12:41 *** The-Moon [n=The-Moon@c-68-45-84-249.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 07:17:24 *** Sedated_ [n=gokeefe@S01060050da7af46c.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 07:19:26 *** Sedated [n=gokeefe@S01060050da7af46c.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:23:11 *** Zerot_ [i=Zerot@g35026.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:28:23 *** scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #OpenTTD 07:41:34 *** Zerot [i=Zerot@g35026.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 07:42:27 *** DJ_Mirage [n=martijn@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:45:29 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B821BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:01:24 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@tnt-13-195.easynet.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:08:20 *** KUDr_wrk [n=KUDr@195.39.113.200] has joined #openttd 08:11:29 *** Damme__ [n=damme@c-c592e455.41-0185-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 08:30:07 *** Damme [n=damme@c-c592e455.41-0185-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:39:31 *** RichK67_wrk [n=RichK67@talk-210-66.talkadsl.com] has joined #openttd 08:48:11 *** Osai^2 [n=Osai@p54B377DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:48:43 *** scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 08:49:40 <roboman> does anyone know that if you have the mouse button that allows you to move wound the map held down when you get disconnected from a mpgame that you can scroll the titlescreen 08:51:15 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B821BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:51:24 *** scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #OpenTTD 08:54:31 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B821BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:55:25 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B821BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 08:55:30 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B821BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:04:30 *** Rens2Sea [n=Rens2Sea@213.211.185.156] has joined #openTTD 09:07:28 <ThePizzaKing> roboman: I knew that, I read it somewhere 09:07:37 <ThePizzaKing> It works with Single Player too 09:07:50 <roboman> how do you do in sp 09:09:24 <ThePizzaKing> Open up a single player game, go to abandon game, then hold down the mouse button, then press enter 09:09:28 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@tnt-13-195.easynet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:09:42 <ThePizzaKing> you should end up on the title screen and be able to scroll 09:10:14 <roboman> ok 09:10:23 <roboman> is it a bug 09:10:39 <roboman> ill try it in ttdp 09:12:41 <ThePizzaKing> Someone filed a bug report on SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1236320&group_id=103924&atid=669662 09:12:55 <ThePizzaKing> that must have been where I read about it 09:14:08 *** Eddi|zuHause [n=johekr@p54B7693C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:14:41 *** Eddi|zuHause 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host)] 10:25:12 *** DJ_Mirage [n=martijn@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:26:29 *** Nubian [n=nubian@193.93.73.116] has joined #openttd 10:29:01 <peter1138> known bug, but hardly important 10:29:09 <peter1138> consider it an easter egg ;) 10:30:00 <roboman> i geuse 10:30:07 <SpComb> it's a feature not a bug, doh 10:30:10 <roboman> ill see if its in tdp when i can 10:30:26 <roboman> i wasnt shure if it was a bug or not 10:31:14 <ln-> has the more serious one been fixed? the ear ring bug. 10:31:24 <peter1138> geuse? 10:31:43 <peter1138> that's not a bug 10:31:51 <peter1138> it's obvious they're all transsexual 10:33:39 <roboman> does anyone know what the source of the desynch of the second player bug 10:34:25 <roboman> in nightly r5431 10:39:01 *** CIA-3 [i=cia@cia.navi.cx] has quit [] 10:40:00 *** Nubian [n=nubian@193.93.73.116] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:43:27 *** Ihmemies [i=ihmemies@a88-113-31-191.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 10:44:05 *** CIA-3 [i=cia@cia.navi.cx] has joined #openttd 10:47:24 *** The-Moon [n=The-Moon@c-68-45-84-249.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)"] 10:51:18 <roboman> yeah it seems to be the saves 10:51:21 <roboman> bah 10:52:36 *** Nickman87 [n=nickman@dD5778837.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:53:13 <Nickman87> hi 10:56:46 <Sacro> Nickman87: hi 10:57:10 <roboman> the sb coop server keeps desyncing us 10:57:22 <roboman> everytime a second client joins 10:57:28 <Nickman87> or a third... 10:57:41 <TL|Away> roboman: even after a reload of a savegame? 10:57:50 <Nickman87> how do we do that? 10:58:15 <TL|Away> save the game, stop the server, start the server and load the game 10:58:31 <roboman> we need an admin for that 10:58:41 <roboman> thats part the problem 11:03:52 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-201-101.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["-"] 11:05:10 <peter1138> h 11:05:42 <Sacro> i? 11:10:28 <TL|Away> LOL! Funny guy at forums: 11:10:30 <TL|Away> [quote="Archonix"]Why has nobody got arond to replacing files yet? Forgive me for saying so, but something like this should really be a very high priority if you want to get away from potential accusations of copyright infringement and the like... IMO, anyway.[/quote] 11:12:04 <ln-> tron would say: "end of discussion!" 11:12:06 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-201-101.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:12:06 *** TL|Away is now known as TrueLight 11:13:03 *** DJ_Mirage [n=martijn@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 11:15:15 <RichK67_wrk> well, we all know that OTTD is potentially on borrowed time - if the copyright owner wanted to, they could shut us down - however, a prosecution would likely fail, as AFAIK considerable effort was put in to obtain permission, and was met by indifference 11:15:43 *** thgergo [n=th_gergo@dsl51B7A196.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 11:16:08 <TrueLight> short for saying: he never replied once on any request :) 11:16:13 *** Mukke [i=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 11:16:43 <anboni> and if "they" really wanted, they could probably shut OTTD down even when all the graphics got replaced by home-made stuff.. simply on the basis of "prior art" 11:17:27 <TrueLight> not to talk about the C-code 11:17:33 <TrueLight> but that was not my point 11:17:35 <TrueLight> the user 11:17:35 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k886.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 11:17:39 <TrueLight> being there all... 11:17:47 <anboni> yeah, clearly.. bit of a tool 11:17:48 <TrueLight> YOU SHOULD DO THIS IT WILL SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS WORLD OKAY NOW 11:18:03 <TrueLight> and not understanding how many images are in the grf files 11:18:09 <TrueLight> people should learn not to talk before asking :) 11:18:10 <RichK67_wrk> yeah, however when it comes to copyright, the owner has to show a level of protective-consistency... by not caring for so long, a judge would probably say "so why do you care now?" 11:18:37 <TrueLight> RichK67_wrk: invalid argument, a judge can't say that 11:18:47 <RichK67_wrk> they can, and do 11:18:49 <TrueLight> it still is a fact that we reversed engineerd it, and publish that 11:19:05 <TrueLight> so as long as his copyright stands, we can't win :) 11:19:06 <anboni> when was the last official publishing of TTD? 11:19:16 <TrueLight> But his copyright is running out of time ;) 11:19:36 <TrueLight> RichK67_wrk: for example, if we start to ask money for it 11:19:42 <TrueLight> and he sues us 11:19:44 <TrueLight> we will loose 11:19:52 <anboni> definately 11:19:53 <TrueLight> no matter how long there was between the start and now 11:20:06 <RichK67_wrk> true - we wouldnt *win*, but we probably wouldnt have to pay any punitive damages, just cease-and-desist using 11:20:19 <TrueLight> that because we are opensource community 11:20:29 <TrueLight> I mean, asking money from OpenTTD Team will result in failure 11:20:30 <anboni> we might even get axed if anyone (totally unrelated to ottd) would start selling a binary 11:20:35 <TrueLight> because all of a sudden we all exceed to exists 11:21:39 <RichK67_wrk> yes, we cannot charge for it; that would be very very likely to get the lawyers out :) 11:22:11 <Sacro> noooooo, no charge for openttd 11:22:17 <TrueLight> but okay, silly discussion 11:22:20 <TrueLight> it all doesn't matter 11:22:22 <RichK67_wrk> yeah 11:22:33 <anboni> of course, anyone selling a binary would probably also be in violation of the ottd license.. but not sure how far that would go in a court of law when facing atari (or whoever now owns the (c) ) 11:22:53 <RichK67_wrk> as i said, we all know its a theoretical possibility, but getting less and less likely as the game gets older 11:23:04 <Sacro> anboni: i think its copywrite of the openttd developers, anyone who has contributed to the code 11:23:11 <TrueLight> anboni: TTD is owned by MicroPose, a company that is gone 11:23:16 <TrueLight> nobody really knows who owns it right now :) 11:23:21 <Sacro> *copyright, damn companies with stupid names 11:23:29 <Sacro> TrueLight: atari is your best bet 11:23:52 <anboni> Sacro, the (c) definately isn't with the ottd devs, since it's all at least prior art and parts of it reverse engineered 11:23:54 <RichK67_wrk> if microprose were bought out, then it is property of buyer 11:23:54 <Sacro> they own Geoff Crammonds Grand Prix series now 11:23:59 <roboman> yeah cause hasbro bought microprose 11:24:24 <TrueLight> but okay, I say: WHO GIVES A SHIT! 11:24:24 <TrueLight> :) 11:24:33 <Sacro> TrueLight: obviously not you 11:24:46 <Sacro> hmm, OpenTTD with MySQL 11:24:47 <roboman> then infogrames baught hasbro computer games then they changed there name to atari 11:24:47 <TrueLight> and neither should you guys :) 11:24:51 <RichK67_wrk> hey, its an interesting discussion for a boring Tuesday lunchtime :) 11:24:56 <roboman> yeah 11:25:31 <roboman> hey if i worked for atari and had acces to the copyright lists i would search 11:26:33 <roboman> and if i found it would tell you guys and the patch team first 11:26:36 <TrueLight> many people tried to figure out who now really owns the copyright 11:26:38 <TrueLight> nobody knows 11:26:43 * Sacro considers XML streaming output from OpenTTD through a unix socket 11:27:00 <TrueLight> Sacro: now that can be a good idea.. the MySQL idea is really idiotic 11:27:16 <Sacro> TrueLight: yes...unless your wanting to log it 11:27:23 <RichK67_wrk> with that chain of buyouts, it should be atari, but it does depend if the product was listed among the assets of the companies 11:27:42 <Sacro> i wonder its online anywhere 11:28:12 <RichK67_wrk> if not listed, then its ownership would not transfer (copyright must be explicitly transferred) 11:28:28 <TrueLight> Sacro: but MySQL is just plain overkill 11:28:35 <Sacro> infrogrames... :S 11:28:38 <hylje> :o 11:28:41 <Sacro> TrueLight: yep, i know 11:29:00 <Sacro> The takeover of Hasbro Inc,s interactive activities, including a 15-year exclusive licence on all Hasbro intellectual property, on all interactive formats, enables Infogrames to significantly reinforce its catalog and its market shares. 11:29:29 <RichK67_wrk> date? 11:29:37 <TrueLight> http://www.microprose.com/ <- hehehehe 11:29:59 <Sacro> http://corporate.infogrames.com/pressreleases_story.html?sid=297 00/01 financial year 11:30:15 <hylje> so.. ttd IP expires in 10 years or so? 11:30:19 <RichK67_wrk> damn - only 9 years to wait then ;) 11:30:25 <ln-> hylje: huh? why would it? 11:30:49 <Sacro> TrueLight: lets buy it and post a link to OpenTTD :P 11:31:13 <TrueLight> hehehehehe 11:31:15 <Sacro> ln-: 15 year licence 11:31:16 <TrueLight> would be a nice one :) 11:31:24 <TrueLight> we should ask orudge if there is any donation money we can use for it :) 11:31:37 <roboman> hehe 11:31:55 <ln-> copyright basically expires 70 years after the *death* of the author. and chris sawyer is not dead yet, and the graphics artist isn't either. 11:32:16 * Sacro considers a hunting spree 11:32:35 <RichK67_wrk> except where that person is working (employed) by a company, in which case copyright belongs to the employer 11:32:35 <roboman> hey can we get permision to use the gfx like train tycoon did 11:32:41 <Zavior> ln-, if if that is so in finland - it might not be abroad 11:33:02 <roboman> then all we have to do is get rid of the exe and other file copyright probs 11:33:08 <ln-> Zavior: EU 11:33:19 <TrueLight> roboman: the original gfx is already asked... someone mailed the guy.. I believe the reply was: fuck off :p 11:33:25 <TrueLight> only in somewhat nicer terms 11:33:27 <TrueLight> terms = words 11:33:37 <roboman> ok 11:33:42 <Zavior> How polite :P 11:33:42 <Sacro> TrueLight: please fuck off? 11:33:47 <hylje> heh 11:33:49 <TrueLight> he was very polite 11:34:00 <TrueLight> but I believe it was something like: I don't want have anything to do with this, and I don't own the copyright 11:34:16 <Sacro> :O Spectrum Holobyte -> Microprose 11:34:19 <ln-> TrueLight: the someone also asked "would you like to draw new graphics for us, for free?", which was a very stupid thing to ask really. 11:34:19 <RichK67_wrk> because he was an employee 11:34:31 <TrueLight> ln-: true true :) 11:34:35 <TrueLight> he didn't liked that AT ALL :p 11:34:55 <TrueLight> asking a real artist to do something for free, without him suggesting to do so, will mostly result in a: fuck off :; 11:34:57 <TrueLight> :p 11:35:42 <Sacro> May, 2003: * Infogrames changed its corporate name to Atari Inc. Infogrames, after taking over Hasbro Interactive in 2001, is the copyright holder to most MicroProse intellectual property 11:36:17 <TrueLight> Sacro: the word 'most' is the problem :p 11:36:21 <RichK67_wrk> yeah - "Rich, will you come and photograph XYZ for me - oh I cant pay you..." just what is the incentive for me to bring my £10,000 of camera gear then?? ;) 11:36:35 <ln-> TrueLight: has anyone considered buying the graphics and other stuff from the current copyright holder? 11:36:56 <Sacro> TrueLight: yes, it doesnt tell you much 11:37:08 <Sacro> RichK67_wrk: she'd be naked 11:37:12 <TrueLight> ln-: we don't know the current copyright holder, as far as I know :) 11:37:31 <RichK67_wrk> lol 11:37:46 <Sacro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Transport_Tycoon_AI.jpg <- i thought TTO didnt have 1 way signals.. 11:38:09 <GoneWacko> That's because it's not TTO :o 11:38:15 <ln-> TrueLight: assuming "we" could find it out, how much money do you think would be needed? 11:38:40 <TrueLight> ln-: depends how much they like the game :p 11:38:45 <RichK67_wrk> microprose -> hasbro -> infogrames / atari.... its atari, unless one of those transfers messed up the rights transfer 11:39:23 <RichK67_wrk> lol - that would be funny.... if OTTD owned the copyright, we could charge TTDP a licence fee ;) 11:39:40 <roboman> would you 11:39:43 <RichK67_wrk> nah 11:39:45 <GoneWacko> no you couldn't 11:39:52 <Sacro> RichK67_wrk: heh, would be amusin 11:40:05 <GoneWacko> because they distribute just as much of the original files as openttd does 11:40:47 <roboman> anyway ttdp has piles of new features open doesnt so you would be disadvatging yourself 11:41:05 <RichK67_wrk> but if OpenTTD owned the copyright, we *would* have the legal right to do so... in fact, we could shut them down!! OTTD - the only true TT ;) LOL..... just kidding of course 11:41:24 <roboman> hehe 11:41:35 <peter1138> except it's GPL, so... 11:41:56 <peter1138> hmm, minefield, then 11:42:12 <RichK67_wrk> Truelight: how long has OTTD been going, relative to TTDP?? im guessing TTDP is older by a couple of years?? 11:42:40 <roboman> when did ottd start 11:42:53 <roboman> ttdp started 2000 i think 11:43:12 <RichK67_wrk> copyright takes precedence to GPL 11:44:17 <Sacro> 99 for ttdpatch 11:44:33 <RichK67_wrk> (and if you're wondering... ive looked a lot into copyright in the UK, to ensure I know what my rights are as a photographer, etc....) 11:45:07 <TrueLight> RichK67_wrk: first OpenTTD version was in 2003 11:45:12 <RichK67_wrk> 1998 Copyright, Designs, and Patents Act.... bleaaarrghhh 11:45:40 <RichK67_wrk> so TTDP has 4 years dev more than OTTD... wow! 11:45:54 <RichK67_wrk> OTTD is catching up *real* fast then 11:46:12 <hylje> could be faster 11:46:43 <kinnaz> ttdp isn't free ? 11:46:48 <RichK67_wrk> volunteering then, hylje? 11:47:11 <roboman> ttdp is free 11:47:13 <hylje> not really 11:47:15 <peter1138> ttdp is free 11:47:16 <ln-> we all know what slows down OTTD development. 11:47:24 <peter1138> my boss ;( 11:47:26 <RichK67_wrk> users 11:47:30 <ln-> no 11:47:33 <TrueLight> me! 11:47:37 <ln-> no 11:47:41 <TrueLight> :'( 11:47:42 <Zavior> 42? 11:47:54 *** IneQuation [n=void@aaod99.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 11:48:08 <TrueLight> atari doesn't list Transport Tycoon anywhere :p 11:48:17 <RichK67_wrk> actually, no... i dont know... 11:48:45 <roboman> nor did microprosxe or i couldnt find it using the wayback machine 11:48:47 <RichK67_wrk> as far as i see, OTTD's volunteer coders commit masses of changes really rapidly 11:49:04 <hylje> too rapidly, as seen with desyncing 11:49:11 <ln-> RichK67_wrk: maybe you need glasses 11:49:32 <RichK67_wrk> come on - what slows it down?? spit it out... i want to know 11:50:30 <TrueLight> But okay, seen the publishers of Chris Sawyer games, I ahve to agree that most likely Atari has the rights 11:50:35 <peter1138> antici ... 11:50:37 <peter1138> pation 11:50:38 <ln-> the reluctancy of accepting patches and implementing new features 11:50:46 <RichK67_wrk> maybe its all the time the devs waste wiping the arses of morons who cant read a (wiki) manual.... 11:51:02 <TrueLight> Transport Tycoon, released through Microprose in 1994 11:51:03 <TrueLight> RollerCoaster Tycoon, released through Hasbro Interactive early in 1999 11:51:11 <TrueLight> RollerCoaster Tycoon 2 soon followed and was released through Infogrames Interactive in 2002. 11:51:15 <kinnaz> RichK67_wrk, don't bother yourself with that kind morons then 11:51:17 <TrueLight> Locomotion, was finally completed and released through Atari in October 2004. 11:51:19 <hylje> ln-: you suggesting we should merge MiniIN into trunk? 11:51:21 <TrueLight> he had all 4 publishers :) 11:51:44 <ln-> OpenTTD 2003, released through Sourceforge 11:52:14 <ln-> hylje: no one has told me what is this MiniIN everyone's talking about, and i haven't bothered to google for it. 11:52:24 <RichK67_wrk> In: having been through the process of getting a feature into trunk, yes it took a long time... end result is what I committed was tight - nigh on bug-free code 11:52:55 <hylje> ln-: its trunk with a fuckton of patches 11:53:05 <RichK67_wrk> would you rather we just commit any crap produced by every idiot out there, and spend 99% of our dev time debugging the crap 11:53:08 *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has joined #openttd 11:53:24 <ln-> hylje: who decides what patches are accepted and what not? 11:53:30 <RichK67_wrk> I do :) 11:54:02 <RichK67_wrk> MiniIN is my project - to provide a test bed, and fun playhouse for non-core patches 11:54:22 <hylje> miniin is cool, apart from the occassional desync 11:55:04 <roboman> ttdp has practically dcipped the stable 11:55:34 <roboman> 2.5 is purely bugfixing for the stable and all the bightlies are 2.6 alpha 0 11:55:38 <ln-> RichK67_wrk: i didn't say that. but when accepting or even stating opinion about a 20-line patch fixing a 1-year-old serious bug takes more than 4 months, something is wrong. 11:55:43 <RichK67_wrk> but even so, I ensure that what goes in meets 3 tests: 1) trunk games must *always* load into MiniIN, 2) older MiniIN games must always load, 3) it must not (obviously) break an existing feature 11:56:09 <RichK67_wrk> maybe you are asking the wrong people in the wrong way 11:56:27 <hylje> "merge this patch or ill fucking kill(TM) you" 11:58:37 <RichK67_wrk> maybe the devs you ask dont regard it as a priority - if it causes a CTD, then it usually gets looked at quickly... if its basically cosmetic, or affects a tiny number of players on a low-popularity platform, then although its critical to you, it isnt to everyone else 11:58:59 <RichK67_wrk> anyway, what is it? 11:59:17 <RichK67_wrk> got a link? 11:59:37 <ln-> it has been committed already, although it almost caused Tron a heart attack 12:00:09 <RichK67_wrk> so get over it then... if its in, relax, chill, etc.. 12:01:00 <RichK67_wrk> thats ok... Im sure Tron has more than one ;) (he's the Doctor you know ;) ) 12:04:17 *** ammler [n=marcel@68-38.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:07:43 <TrueLight> peter1138: ping 12:08:02 <TrueLight> elrail has a desync bug 12:08:33 <peter1138> pong 12:08:36 <peter1138> uh oh 12:08:44 <TrueLight> peter1138: you know a thing or two about the elrail code? 12:08:44 <peter1138> Celestar! P 12:08:49 <TrueLight> okh, Celestar: ping 12:08:56 <peter1138> a little 12:09:05 *** Sacro [n=ben@adsl-83-100-181-211.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:09:06 <TrueLight> train_cmd.c, line 2030 causes desync 12:09:07 <peter1138> enough to look at it and laugh at the mistake ;) 12:09:21 <TrueLight> let me put in some more info there 12:09:33 <peter1138> hmm. that's not elrails 12:09:38 <TrueLight> blue spark? 12:09:43 <peter1138> yeah 12:09:44 <TrueLight> EV_ELECTRIC_SPARK? 12:09:48 <TrueLight> on train code? 12:09:51 <peter1138> yes 12:09:56 <peter1138> that was there before elrails 12:09:59 <TrueLight> I assume that only happens when elrail vehicle is tehre :p 12:10:04 <peter1138> well, yes 12:10:08 <peter1138> now, anyway 12:10:13 <TrueLight> :) 12:10:17 <TrueLight> and that I guess went a bit wrong 12:10:31 <peter1138> so, uh, what's the problem there? 12:10:47 <TrueLight> the server does has the first piece of the if as true, the client doesn't 12:10:57 <peter1138> hmmmmmm 12:11:05 <TrueLight> I added some more info, see what really is causing it.. 12:11:07 <TrueLight> I hope anyway ;) 12:11:10 <peter1138> how the fuck did you find that? :P 12:11:16 <TrueLight> random-debugging 12:11:19 <TrueLight> and a good savegame 12:11:23 <TrueLight> and some luck :p 12:11:32 <peter1138> so that's not really the cause 12:11:37 <peter1138> why is v->tick_counter different 12:11:43 <TrueLight> my question :) 12:11:47 <TrueLight> or engine_type 12:11:49 <RichK67_wrk> one of the brianetta saves?? 12:11:55 <TrueLight> RichK67_wrk: no, coop save 12:12:03 <peter1138> engine_type is very unlikely 12:12:09 <RichK67_wrk> cool anyway... well done on it 12:12:10 <TrueLight> peter1138: but you never know :) 12:12:14 <peter1138> unless of course, it's the old newgrf not loaded chestnut 12:12:27 <TrueLight> peter1138: there are grfs loaded in this game, so.. 12:12:42 <peter1138> yeah... as long as they're all loaded it should be fine 12:12:52 <peter1138> (of course 12:13:04 <peter1138> why the fuck am i saying something you know is plainly obvious? 12:13:19 <TrueLight> because you love me? 12:13:24 <peter1138> that's true 12:13:28 <peter1138> and you're not away ;) 12:13:32 <TrueLight> :) 12:14:53 <RichK67_wrk> bbl 12:15:23 <Nickman87> hi all :) 12:15:36 *** Triffid_Hunter [n=Splat@funkmunch.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:16:05 <TrueLight> peter1138: now this is weird.... 12:16:28 <TrueLight> engine_type isn't the same on server and client 12:16:32 *** angerman [n=angerman@e181114201.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 12:16:35 <peter1138> o_O 12:16:43 <TrueLight> effect_type 12:16:43 <TrueLight> sorry 12:16:52 <peter1138> ah 12:16:54 <peter1138> hmm 12:17:26 <peter1138> what about v->u.rail.cached_vis_effect ? 12:17:39 <TrueLight> will try that in a moment 12:17:44 <peter1138> hmm, this smells 12:17:46 <TrueLight> it btw doesn't always desync 12:17:57 <TrueLight> okay, it does :p 12:18:06 <HackyKid> well, it is possible for a newgrf to cause a desync 12:18:07 <peter1138> i spy a difficult desync issue there 12:18:11 <peter1138> HackyKid: yeah 12:18:19 <TrueLight> yup 12:18:19 <peter1138> it's updated on game load 12:18:24 <TrueLight> and fior the first time, I like to trace that :) 12:18:25 <HackyKid> yeah 12:18:40 <HackyKid> so if some stuff in the cache depends on... direction of the vehicle 12:18:41 <peter1138> so the return value could be different than from the existing loaded value 12:18:43 <peter1138> yes 12:18:50 <peter1138> or any vehicle var 12:18:57 <peter1138> that means all those cached vars should be saved 12:19:04 <peter1138> *argh* 12:19:35 <TrueLight> peter1138: the most annoying thing, I start the server from a savegame, and within some seconds I let the client join 12:19:43 <peter1138> hmm 12:19:54 <peter1138> is it possible to start it paused and join then? 12:19:54 <TrueLight> so I guess making the cached values isn't via a static way, but depends on some surroundings 12:20:12 <peter1138> TrueLight: it depends on newgrf action 2 == totally up to the grf author 12:20:12 <TrueLight> possible, and that might wokr, but let me try to trace it first :) 12:20:29 <HackyKid> well, newgrf has the ability to base something on virtually anything, heh 12:20:31 <TrueLight> peter1138: but no way that it should produce desyncs :p 12:21:11 <TrueLight> if I join REALLY quick, it doesn't desync 12:21:15 <TrueLight> I have to wait for some secs 12:21:19 <HackyKid> and some wrong assumption where made then, like max-speed only changing when a consist changes 12:21:53 <HackyKid> hmm 12:23:01 <TrueLight> argh, and now it doesn't want to desync at all :p So very annoying :) 12:24:13 <Nickman87> haha :D 12:24:22 <roboman> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 12:24:41 <TrueLight> log files are 25MB each... and I run them for just 1 minute :p 12:24:56 <peter1138> TrueLight: do you know which newgrf it's coming from? 12:25:09 <peter1138> or should i just go ahead and save these values? 12:25:10 <TrueLight> +2850 2 23 8 <- this happens on the client, but not on the server, first time 12:25:14 <TrueLight> after that, it goes very wrong 12:25:22 <TrueLight> 2850 is index number 12:25:26 <peter1138> where's that? hehe 12:25:33 <TrueLight> effect_Type is 2 12:25:37 <TrueLight> v->tick_counter is 23 12:25:42 <TrueLight> and the other is that cached value 12:25:56 <TrueLight> but okay, what is weird here, is that the server never comes to this 12:26:00 <peter1138> so we can either save the cached value 12:26:01 <peter1138> or 12:26:09 <peter1138> recalculate it all the time (hence it's not very cached) 12:26:11 <TrueLight> so neither of those values is to blame 12:26:19 <TrueLight> Something else is... 12:26:33 <peter1138> i hate desyncs :) 12:26:39 <TrueLight> this is an easy one 12:28:07 <peter1138> mmm 12:28:16 <peter1138> you don't have to wait 2 hours each time :) 12:28:29 <TrueLight> that is one of the conditions to trace any desync :) 12:29:04 <guru3> good news everyone 12:29:12 <guru3> i'll be able to go to uni it england it seems :D 12:29:15 <Nickman87> aha? 12:29:23 <TrueLight> :) Concratz :) 12:29:36 * guru3 is so happy 12:29:43 <guru3> my parents may let up on yelling at me :D :D :D 12:30:35 <TrueLight> Lol, I am dumping so much data, that the clients run too slow to stay in the game :p My IO can't handle it :) 12:30:53 <hylje> hah 12:31:01 <hylje> doesnt that mean.. time for better hardware? 12:31:13 <TrueLight> 70 MB per 20 seconds 12:31:19 <TrueLight> so 3.5 MB per second 12:31:21 <TrueLight> 3 times 12:31:24 <TrueLight> 2 times a graphical client 12:31:27 <TrueLight> I can't blame him :p 12:31:48 *** Sacro [n=ben@adsl-83-100-181-159.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 12:33:42 <TrueLight> so funny in coop, they are blaming all kind of things for the desyncs :p 12:33:58 <Nickman87> we are tryin some stuff... :D 12:34:05 <peter1138> oh? 12:34:10 <Nickman87> can't blame us for trying ;) 12:34:16 <peter1138> terraforming was always suspicious 12:34:21 <Nickman87> like idsabling some features... :D 12:34:23 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-201-101.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["-"] 12:34:24 <Nickman87> haha :D 12:34:34 <peter1138> maybe the recent terraforming changes have fixed it... who knows 12:34:37 <TrueLight> At least youu gys are trying :) 12:34:48 <Nickman87> :D 12:35:30 <Nickman87> any clues coming in? :d 12:36:05 <TrueLight> diff over 169MB files is somehow a bit slow 12:36:14 <Nickman87> hehe :D 12:37:08 <TrueLight> it should give a 100% match 12:37:13 <TrueLight> annoying ;) 12:37:22 <TrueLight> diff: memory exhausted 12:37:24 <TrueLight> LOL! 12:37:34 <Nickman87> huh? :p 12:37:37 <hylje> ::D 12:38:20 <ln-> RichK67_wrk: would you accept this kind of patch into MiniIN: http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/ottd/electricity.png 12:38:59 <hylje> how do you transport it 12:39:03 <Nickman87> how you ognna transpport it? power lines? 12:39:05 <hylje> with hueg batteries? 12:39:08 <Nickman87> haha :D 12:39:53 <ln-> hylje: you don't transport it. 12:40:02 <hylje> k 12:40:17 <Nickman87> sow hats the use? 12:40:47 <ln-> what's the use of that smoke coming from the pipes? 12:40:57 <hylje> eye candy 12:41:04 <Nickman87> :D 12:41:13 <Nickman87> touché! 12:41:14 <hylje> you should gief the town buildings a electrisity value? 12:41:36 <Nickman87> well I'm off for now, bye all ;) 12:41:39 <hylje> and have the town grow faster if it got a well fed powerplant 12:41:43 <anboni> make electric trains actually need electricity :) 12:41:44 <hylje> nearby 12:41:50 <hylje> yah that maybe too? 12:41:55 <hapo> sounds like a viable idea. 12:42:27 <Nickman87> go for it ;) 12:42:32 *** Nickman87 [n=nickman@dD5778837.access.telenet.be] has left #openttd [] 12:42:40 <ln-> i like the idea too 12:42:44 <hylje> either the powerplants just magically provide power around it 12:43:02 <hylje> or somebody has to build the lines to a town 12:43:19 <TrueLight> SimCity all over again :p 12:43:22 <hylje> yes 12:43:34 <ln-> powering the towns is kind of beyond the scope of the game, but powering one's own electric tracks would not be. 12:43:41 <hapo> ln-: true 12:43:44 <hapo> I thught the same 12:43:48 <hapo> +o 12:43:56 <hylje> hmm 12:44:14 <hylje> didnt someone make a patch for elrails to need electrisity already 12:44:18 <TrueLight> and if you don't produce enough, part of the system will come without power? :p 12:44:30 <Sacro> hylje: yes...think it might have been gigajum 12:44:33 <hylje> yes, liek in later simcities 12:44:43 <ln-> TrueLight: either so, or alternatively you need to pay more for the electricity you use. 12:44:47 <Sacro> TrueLight: yep, no coal to power stations, no power for trains 12:45:04 <hylje> but it would not have to be mandatory? 12:45:13 <hylje> it would just cost more to run those trains 12:46:16 <TrueLight> peter1138: some value seems to be always 2 less then what it should be 12:46:22 <TrueLight> but I don't know what value, something went wrong : 12:46:22 <TrueLight> p 12:46:29 <ln-> let's say there could be power lines going around the map, built by the government. one could power the elrails from those lines. 12:47:33 <hylje> yes 12:47:37 <peter1138> heh 12:47:47 <peter1138> take the battery wagons from toyland :) 12:47:50 <hylje> :D 12:47:54 <RichK67_wrk> back 12:48:06 <hapo> ln-: but there's no central government in OpenTTD :) 12:48:08 <hapo> just municipalities. 12:48:24 <ln-> hapo: well who owns the buoys? 12:48:24 <hylje> lets say the power plants start to build them after they get fed 12:48:33 <hapo> ln-: an interesting question. 12:48:38 <TrueLight> peter1138: v->tick_counter is incorrect 12:48:40 <RichK67_wrk> In: if that pic is just cosmetic, then i dont see the point... if not, i would rather see the patch 12:49:03 <peter1138> hmm 12:49:11 <ln-> RichK67_wrk: it's a cosmetic patch, yes. 12:49:33 <roboman> gnight 12:49:43 <ln-> RichK67_wrk: and please adjust your font so that you can see the difference of l, I, 1, and I. 12:49:46 <peter1138> how can tick_counter be wrong... 12:50:06 <TrueLight> it happens DIRECTLY after the game is started 12:50:13 <TrueLight> the effects only take a while to notice 12:50:54 <RichK67_wrk> bah... pick a sensible name then :P 12:51:25 <TrueLight> it is exactly 2 behind the correct value 12:52:39 <RichK67_wrk> ell-en-hyphen: seems simple enough - post it in the MiniIN thread, and follow the instructions on the MiniIN-wiki to create it as a MiniIN-patch... but i wont be doing any updates this week... waaaaaaaaaaay too busy 12:55:05 <ln-> the patch was made against revision 366, i wonder if it still merges to current revision.. :) 12:55:30 <hylje> :o 12:55:44 <TrueLight> I wouldn't place any money on it 12:55:59 <TrueLight> peter1138: I am trying to confirm that tick_counter is wrong 12:56:02 <peter1138> 366? pretty ancient... 12:56:04 <TrueLight> takes some time to confirm :) 12:56:48 <peter1138> yeah 12:57:02 <TrueLight> massive data-burst :) 12:57:51 <ln-> i'm not sure if it's revision 366 before or after the great fuckup of repository. 12:57:58 <ln-> probably after. 12:58:27 <RichK67_wrk> how long is it.... it may be quicker to do manually 12:58:59 <ln-> well here it is: http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/ottd/electricity_on_power_station.diff.gz 12:59:06 <TrueLight> hmmz, peter1138, this is pretty weird 12:59:33 <TrueLight> peter1138: I dumped data when tick_counter is increased 12:59:36 <TrueLight> and then it is correct 13:00:28 <RichK67_wrk> any chance of it non-gzipped... i dont have the facilities on my work machine to look at it 13:00:50 <RichK67_wrk> plain .diff is fine 13:01:52 <ln-> did you try opening it, btw? ... at least my browser un-gzips it on-the-fly 13:02:57 <ln-> nonetheless, here it is without gzipping: http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/ottd/electricity_on_power_station.diff 13:02:57 <TrueLight> normal browsers can do that ;) 13:03:31 <TrueLight> LOL! Big patch :p 13:03:52 <RichK67_wrk> ok, cool - yes, firefox coped fine... well, you learn something new every day ;) 13:04:13 <peter1138> what a nasty hack 13:04:48 <ln-> peter1138: indeed 13:04:50 *** Frostregen_ [n=sucks@dslb-084-058-180-001.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 13:05:48 <ln-> peter1138: but adding a new real cargo type would require quite much work, would it not? 13:05:59 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [n=johekr@p54B75DDD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:06:10 <TrueLight> I believe temperate has some room 13:06:13 <RichK67_wrk> be better to test "if industry is a power station, and has received cargo" 13:06:19 <SpComb> STR_PERFORMANCE_DETAIL_LOAN_TIP :{BLACK}Do you have a high loan? Visit www.loadhelp.com for expert help and premium mortagin plans! 13:07:14 <Oak_> wtf 13:07:29 <RichK67_wrk> it may be an ugly hack, and not worthy of trunk, but its fine for MiniIN... 13:09:13 *** eQualizer [n=lauri@dyn13-168.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:10:57 <TrueLight> grr, DESYNC BITCH 13:10:58 <TrueLight> ah 13:11:00 <TrueLight> it listens :) 13:11:59 <peter1138> http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/electrofun.html o_O 13:12:25 <TrueLight> 'diff' can't really handle a prefix difference of 12000 lines :p 13:12:42 <TrueLight> peter1138: ieuw! Dirty freak! 13:12:49 <SpComb> hmm 13:13:13 <SpComb> ye olde 13:13:28 <TrueLight> peter1138: okay, I take it back, the problems, it seems 'diff' just made a big boo-hoo 13:13:38 *** scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #OpenTTD 13:13:43 <TrueLight> I am back to square one :) 13:13:45 <TrueLight> okay, other approach! 13:14:38 <RichK67_wrk> ok... time to concentrate on work :( 13:14:41 <RichK67_wrk> bbl 13:14:45 *** RichK67_wrk [n=RichK67@talk-210-66.talkadsl.com] has quit [] 13:16:01 *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas 13:16:17 <Belugas> hello boys and girls 13:16:22 <TrueLight> hi Belugas 13:16:45 <TrueLight> desync 13:16:46 <TrueLight> stupid freak 13:16:48 <TrueLight> why don't you 13:16:49 <TrueLight> just desync 13:16:52 <TrueLight> when I want you to 13:16:52 <TrueLight> grrr 13:17:17 <TrueLight> it depends very much at which tick I join, when it desyncs 13:17:21 <TrueLight> it can go very fast 13:17:25 <TrueLight> and can take for ever 13:18:26 <Belugas> Hello TrueLight 13:22:07 <TrueLight> peter1138: something weird is going on 13:23:04 *** Frostregen [i=SADDAM@dslb-084-058-181-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:23:25 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 13:25:52 <TrueLight> I receive very inconsistent data 13:28:57 *** Eddi|zuHause [n=johekr@p54B7693C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:33:08 <TrueLight> peter1138: cur_speed is different..... 13:33:46 <TrueLight> and that slowly works towards a problem 13:34:17 <TrueLight> on the server the vehicle already is in a depot 13:34:25 <TrueLight> on the client it is about the go into a depot 13:35:11 <TrueLight> and this can be the realistic acceleration 13:35:23 <TrueLight> so possible newgrf gives a problem if the weight of a vehicle can be different? 13:41:03 <TrueLight> peter1138: ping 13:41:12 <peter1138> unlikely, but possible, i think 13:41:28 <peter1138> that boils down to the cached variables again 13:41:32 <TrueLight> Can you think about the folliwing problem: 13:41:43 <TrueLight> saving, even for a server, happens in a thread, right? 13:42:16 <peter1138> i didn't think it did for a server 13:42:29 <TrueLight> hmmz 13:42:30 <TrueLight> let me check that 13:42:40 <TrueLight> because it looks like that sometimes when you join 13:43:02 <TrueLight> the data in the savegame isn't the same as on the server 13:44:36 <TrueLight> ah, indeed, a server doesn't use thread 13:47:29 <TrueLight> very weird this all is 13:47:40 <TrueLight> I truely register inconsitent data from time to time 13:47:43 <TrueLight> but rarely at the same spot 13:50:18 <peter1138> o_O 13:50:23 <peter1138> hmm 13:50:27 *** Morlark [n=Sean@82-71-32-147.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:50:27 <TrueLight> every time it shows itself at those sparks 13:50:30 <peter1138> is it possible to pause it at a specific frame? 13:50:36 <peter1138> to repeatedly test it 13:51:48 <TrueLight> is the pause-on-no-clients not in SVN yet? 13:52:44 <TrueLight> so far I noticed it can result in 2 problems 13:52:47 <TrueLight> either the speed isn't the same 13:53:01 <TrueLight> if (IsTileDepotType(v->tile, TRANSPORT_RAIL) || IsTunnelTile(v->tile)) { 13:53:02 <TrueLight> if (_networking && (DEREF_CLIENT(0)->status != STATUS_INACTIVE || !_network_server)) 13:53:06 <TrueLight> or that line shows inconsistent 13:53:07 <TrueLight> euh 13:53:09 <TrueLight> forget the second :p 13:53:15 <TrueLight> if (IsTileDepotType(v->tile, TRANSPORT_RAIL) || IsTunnelTile(v->tile)) { 13:53:16 <TrueLight> thatone :p 13:53:46 <TrueLight> (server says true on the if, client says false) 13:55:38 <baske> Sacro: is there an easy way for such xml streaming? 13:55:56 <TrueLight> btw, breakdown function is called and handled even if it is disabled :) When it is half-way, it stops when you disabled breakdown ;) 13:58:44 <ln-> what a waste of cpu time! 13:59:19 <TrueLight> not only that 13:59:29 <TrueLight> it can also make all vehicles break down when you siwtch off no breakdown 13:59:38 <TrueLight> because the counter is gotten pretty high 14:00:16 <TrueLight> peter1138: now even the vehstatus is different from server to client 14:00:22 <TrueLight> every time on a random vehicle 14:00:22 <TrueLight> hmmz 14:00:28 <TrueLight> smells like buffer overflow :s 14:00:56 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:04:08 <Sacro> baske: maybe...depends what info is required to be output 14:04:09 <TrueLight> bah, I will look into this problem later 14:04:11 <TrueLight> this just sucks ass 14:04:52 <baske> Sacro: just quarterly data, some gamevars as money, loan, number of vehicles, ... 14:04:57 <Brianetta> TrueLight: I have three saves 14:05:03 <Brianetta> taken from my server yesterday 14:05:26 <Brianetta> They are the last three on-join-saves autopilot took before Rich desynced 14:05:47 <TrueLight> Brianetta: I have a savegame localhost now 14:05:54 <TrueLight> that desyncs me 1 out of the 5 within 3 game-days 14:06:03 <TrueLight> but the data I so far received are VERY weird 14:06:10 <Sacro> baske: well it shouldnt be that hard to do 14:06:16 <TrueLight> the data on the server and client isdifferent 14:06:26 <TrueLight> but every run it differs differently 14:06:34 <baske> just writing tag after tag then? 14:06:37 <Brianetta> Something not using the correct RNG? 14:06:49 <baske> (logically grouped of course) 14:06:53 <TrueLight> RNG? 14:07:17 <Brianetta> random number generator 14:07:24 <Brianetta> There are two, aren't there? 14:07:33 <Brianetta> One that doesn't change The Seed 14:08:28 <TrueLight> Hehe, they both change seeds, just different onces 14:08:30 *** A1win [i=a1win@loota.fi] has joined #openttd 14:08:31 <TrueLight> but no, that is not the problem 14:08:33 <TrueLight> the random is perfect 14:08:42 <TrueLight> the data of a vehicle seems broken 14:08:47 <TrueLight> but I need to look into it more to give more details 14:09:11 <peter1138> so 14:09:16 <peter1138> what about if no newgrfs are loaded? 14:09:28 <peter1138> (it'll probably fuck up in different ways) 14:09:29 <TrueLight> will test all that later 14:09:31 <TrueLight> not now 14:09:34 <peter1138> kk 14:09:37 <peter1138> but 14:09:37 <Brianetta> The random might be perfect, but if somethinf somewhere calls the other RNG (the C one) then it's going to end up doing something differently. 14:09:41 <peter1138> i thought you liked testing ;) 14:10:03 <peter1138> Brianetta: i think truelight is aware how his network code works ;) 14:10:13 <TrueLight> Brianetta: read my lips: the random shit isn't a problem :) 14:10:34 <Brianetta> ): 14:10:41 <Brianetta> It might not be in the network code ): 14:10:44 <Brianetta> Could be anywhere 14:11:13 <TrueLight> Either the savegame doesn't save all the needed data 14:11:20 <TrueLight> Either the cached values are calculated wrong 14:11:29 <TrueLight> Either there is a bufferoverflow somewhere destroying good data 14:11:34 <TrueLight> Or something else is wrong :) 14:11:49 <TrueLight> Currently, I see in multiple runs: different cur_speed on server/client 14:11:53 <TrueLight> different vehstatus 14:11:58 <TrueLight> different x/y position on the map 14:12:38 <Brianetta> I'm just wondering how the same bug can cause different values on the same architecture 14:13:03 <Brianetta> Seeing as the game is supposed to be a predictable function 14:13:19 <TrueLight> Say, the software writes at pointer A 14:13:25 <TrueLight> no matter what run, it writes in pointer A 14:13:37 <TrueLight> different runs make the memory move a bit 14:13:44 <TrueLight> mostly it is in about the same place, but just a bit different 14:13:50 <TrueLight> so, there is one possibility 14:13:56 <Brianetta> ah, so if that pointer isn't loaded properly when the game is loaded on join 14:13:59 <TrueLight> I doubt that is the case, but as you can see, there are enough options ;) 14:14:03 <Brianetta> then the data is written elsewhere 14:14:18 <TrueLight> newgrf is a whole other story then can give tons of problems, but I doubt that is the problem too 14:14:27 <TrueLight> so short, there is enough to check and where it can go wrong 14:14:35 <TrueLight> but, it seems to be a very weird problem to me right now 14:14:43 <Brianetta> May the source be with you 14:14:58 <TrueLight> I first want a reproducable setting 14:15:06 <TrueLight> that I know EXACTLY when it will fail 14:15:10 <TrueLight> for now, that isn't the case 14:20:29 *** Damme__ [n=damme@c-c592e455.41-0185-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:30:05 <CIA-3> miham * r5481 /trunk/lang/danish.txt: 14:30:05 <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-07-11 16:29:48 14:30:05 <CIA-3> danish - 3 fixed, 193 changed by ThomasA (196) 14:32:33 <TrueLight> ah, bah, I can't leave it alone :p 14:32:39 <TrueLight> hehe, now I have the speed-problem again :) 14:32:45 <TrueLight> on server the vehicle goes with 230 14:32:48 <TrueLight> on the client with 229 14:32:58 <TrueLight> so of course that will result in a desync at some point :) 14:33:11 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:34:00 <TrueLight> yeah, reproducable :) 14:34:15 <TrueLight> This channel is now my notepad :p 14:34:17 <TrueLight> 240 2536 188 14:34:17 <TrueLight> 240 2537 56 14:34:17 <TrueLight> 2) 57 0 14:34:17 <TrueLight> -5) No-return: 8 0 230 14:34:17 <TrueLight> +5) No-return: 8 0 229 14:34:21 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:34:55 <Brianetta> Bah. tunnel collapsed 14:38:17 <TrueLight> 240 2536 188 14:38:17 <TrueLight> 240 2537 56 14:38:17 <TrueLight> 2) 57 0 14:38:17 <TrueLight> -5) No-return: 8 0 230 14:38:17 <TrueLight> +5) No-return: 8 0 229 14:38:24 <TrueLight> oeh, this is nice, even the same vehicle 14:38:40 *** Trenskow [n=outlet@85.218.142.227] has joined #openttd 14:38:53 *** Dred_furst [i=nn@user-778.wfd75b.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:39:28 <Brianetta> Which debugger are you using? 14:40:12 <TrueLight> OpenTTD :p 14:40:25 <peter1138> heh 14:41:33 *** TinoM| is now known as TinoM 14:41:51 <TrueLight> okay, realistic acceleration seems to fuck this up 14:42:12 <TrueLight> it goes in with the same speed 14:42:17 <TrueLight> and on server it becomes an other speed 14:42:24 <TrueLight> NEED MORE INFO! :) 14:42:51 <peter1138> hmm 14:43:13 <peter1138> realistic acceleration is dodgy, but... 14:43:23 <TrueLight> I think it will return to a newgrf thingy :) 14:43:36 <TrueLight> but that is just a wild guess 14:43:37 <TrueLight> we will see :) 14:44:05 <peter1138> did it desync without newgrfs? 14:44:11 <TrueLight> didn't tried yet 14:44:45 <TrueLight> hmmz 14:44:48 <TrueLight> and when I join just a bit later 14:44:51 <TrueLight> the speed is perfect 14:44:56 <TrueLight> but the position seems to be wrong :p 14:44:58 <TrueLight> this is SO FUNNY :) 14:45:34 <TrueLight> without grf, same problem 14:45:38 <TrueLight> okay, peter1138, you are free ;) 14:45:42 *** Trenskow [n=outlet@85.218.142.227] has quit ["Read error: Connection reset by sortepeer"] 14:46:18 <TrueLight> lol 14:46:24 <TrueLight> the server has tis vehicle on an other tile 14:46:25 <TrueLight> funny :p 14:46:44 <TrueLight> server says: 70336 14:46:49 <TrueLight> client says: 70080 14:46:59 <TrueLight> no wonder it goes wrong ;) 14:47:57 <TrueLight> 0x112c0 14:48:05 <TrueLight> 0x111c0 14:48:07 <TrueLight> so just 1 tile 14:49:00 <TrueLight> hmmz 14:49:03 <TrueLight> smells like pathfinder bug 14:49:06 <Sacro> IRC debug... 14:49:18 <TrueLight> if this is YAPF, I kill you KUDr :p 14:49:22 <TrueLight> you do nderstand that? :p 14:49:29 <TrueLight> problem hapens on a tile where a train can go 2 ways 14:49:52 <TrueLight> on the server it goes one way, on the client the other way 14:50:11 <TrueLight> so it looks like YAPF doesn't save everything it needs to save 14:50:26 <TrueLight> (and that also explains the sensitivity to when joining 14:50:44 <TrueLight> so, KUDr: ping 14:51:08 <peter1138> it's yapf? o_O 14:51:09 <KUDr_wrk> pong 14:51:17 <TrueLight> yes, I am very sure it is YAPF 14:51:29 <KUDr_wrk> what? 14:51:33 <TrueLight> KUDr_wrk: are all states saved of YAPF when saving? 14:51:34 *** glx [i=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 14:51:41 <TrueLight> YAPF is causing desyncs on a crazy rate 14:51:49 <KUDr_wrk> hmm 14:51:52 <TrueLight> on the server the train goes left, on the client the train goes right 14:51:53 <KUDr_wrk> it didn't 14:52:04 <Sacro> 14:52:06 <KUDr_wrk> different route? 14:52:16 <TrueLight> I guess the routes come back together at some stage 14:52:18 <KUDr_wrk> then it must have different settings, not state 14:52:26 <peter1138> the settings are synced, no? 14:52:30 <TrueLight> yeah, sure, I think that is the problem too :p 14:52:31 <TrueLight> DAH! 14:52:36 <TrueLight> I even run it from the same directory 14:52:39 <KUDr_wrk> and settings should be saved at least in MP 14:53:02 <KUDr_wrk> hmmm 14:53:03 <peter1138> so... are they being saved correctly, hmm.. 14:53:13 <peter1138> printing them out should be easy, heh 14:53:26 <TrueLight> my guess is that the server doesn't save everything there is to save 14:53:36 <KUDr_wrk> do we have reproducible case with savegame? 14:53:42 <TrueLight> I right now have 14:53:45 <peter1138> scroll back ;) 14:53:50 <TrueLight> indeed, scroll back :p 14:53:55 <KUDr_wrk> YAPF has no state except cache 14:54:04 <TrueLight> when you load the game just a bit later, it doesn't desync, but that is pretty logic :) 14:54:09 <KUDr_wrk> and cache should be always in sync with map 14:54:10 <TrueLight> so, the cache is build wrong :p 14:54:21 <KUDr_wrk> maybe 14:54:22 <peter1138> hmmm, the cache 14:54:36 <peter1138> the cache'll be built later on the client... so could be different? 14:54:50 <peter1138> (like the newgrf cached vars) 14:54:57 <KUDr_wrk> if somebody added some feature changing layout or if i forgot to add notification about layout change 14:55:22 <peter1138> is there some way of determining if the cache is the same? 14:55:49 <KUDr_wrk> peter: cache will never be the same 14:55:49 <TrueLight> KUDr: I load the game and do absolutely nothing 14:55:52 <TrueLight> on both server as client 14:55:58 <KUDr_wrk> some info is not cached 14:56:09 <eQualizer> Okay, I'm having this weird bug... I'm getting news reports about road vehicle crash, but none of my car's haven't crashed and what I see in the news are airplanes. 14:56:11 *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD5E03EB1.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:56:12 <TrueLight> still, the client and server react different in some places 14:56:17 <KUDr_wrk> and cab be cached later 14:56:34 <KUDr_wrk> i need to repro it 14:56:39 <TrueLight> KUDr: where is the cache stored, and how can I print it? 14:56:55 <peter1138> KUDr_wrk: but they should be the same, surely? else the routes chosen could be different... 14:57:03 <glx> eQualizer: it's known: it's caused by asynchronous news 14:58:09 <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: if some information is not yet cached on the client, then they can differ 14:58:22 <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: cache is build on the fly 14:58:34 <KUDr_wrk> when first time accessing the map 14:59:00 <KUDr_wrk> TrueLight: it will not help you to print it 14:59:37 <KUDr_wrk> TrueLight: it will surely differ in layout - server will have it stored in different order 14:59:52 <TrueLight> KUDr_wrk: so that can cause desync easily? 15:00:05 <TrueLight> I mean, as soon as the server makes 1 different path then the client, we have a big desync 15:00:12 <eQualizer> And why is my helicopters going to hangars to stay there? 15:00:15 <TrueLight> so it is very much needed to even keep cache on both server and client the same 15:00:33 <KUDr_wrk> only if information there is obsoleted (no notification was received about layout change) 15:00:42 <glx> eQualizer: which version? 15:00:49 <TrueLight> KUDr_wrk: again: I load a savegame on the server and I do absolutely nothing 15:00:59 <eQualizer> Oh, they are renewed, but still... 15:01:00 <KUDr_wrk> they should never make different paths 15:01:05 <eQualizer> glx: 0.4.7 15:01:06 <TrueLight> KUDr_wrk: but they do 15:01:14 <KUDr_wrk> only if information there is obsoleted (no notification was received about layout change)if they do - then it is big bug 15:01:16 <KUDr_wrk> i agree 15:01:17 <Brianetta> KUDr: Is there a means to disable yapf form the dedicated server console? 15:01:17 <TrueLight> so you can try to dogde it by saying it shouldn't, but it does 15:01:20 <glx> eQualizer: fixed in nightlies 15:01:31 <TrueLight> okay, define your 'layout change' 15:01:46 <KUDr_wrk> Brianetta: the same as changing any other option 15:01:47 <anboni> KUDr, would it be possible to invalidate the entire cache at certain moments (like when a client joins)? 15:02:19 * Brianetta goes to look at what the option might be 15:02:24 <KUDr_wrk> anboni: yes - it is done always when notification is received 15:02:34 <KUDr_wrk> and can be done on every save 15:02:38 <TrueLight> KUDr_wrk: you keep on saying: 'layour change', but what do you mean with it? 15:02:42 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:02:52 <anboni> so do that, then you can easily figure out if it's in the caching logic or elsewhere 15:02:58 <KUDr_wrk> so then client and server start with the empty cache 15:03:16 <KUDr_wrk> caching can be also easily switched off 15:03:22 <glx> TrueLight: layout change when you add/remove track or signal 15:03:30 <TrueLight> glx: I assumed he ment that, but that isn't the case here 15:03:39 <KUDr_wrk> i must look into code to tell you how 15:04:15 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:04:34 <Brianetta> stupid ssh tunnel 15:04:35 <Brianetta> 'road_use_yapf' is an unknown patch setting. 15:04:40 <KUDr_wrk> TrueLight: "layout change" is conversion of rail type, adding/deleting track, signal or depot or station and so on 15:04:43 *** TinoM| [n=Tino@i5387C23E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:04:53 <Brianetta> I can't disable yapf 15:04:54 <TrueLight> KUDr_wrk: so your bug isn't there, it is somewhere else :) 15:04:56 <KUDr_wrk> anything what can influence the pathfinding result 15:05:17 <KUDr_wrk> TrueLight: no i thing it will be my bug 15:05:25 <KUDr_wrk> forgotten notification 15:05:32 <TrueLight> KUDr_wrk: but I do absolutely nothing 15:05:33 <KUDr_wrk> i am responsible for it 15:05:38 <TrueLight> so only signals can be a problem 15:05:58 <KUDr_wrk> signal states are taken from tiles always 15:06:00 *** Tino|Home [n=Tino@i5387C23E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:06:07 <glx> client joining should be considered as layout change? 15:06:13 <KUDr_wrk> for signals that are taken into consideration 15:06:25 <anboni> TrueLight, i think the point is exactly that you're doing nothing.. that means the cache doesnt get invalidated, which means client and server end up with different caches 15:06:26 <KUDr_wrk> glx; no 15:06:35 <TrueLight> anboni: doubtful 15:07:04 <anboni> TrueLight, try it.. load up that game, put some a piece of connecting track and see if it still desyncs 15:07:07 <TrueLight> k, DINNER! 15:07:07 <TrueLight> bbl :) 15:07:13 <TrueLight> anboni: it does, don't worry :p 15:07:16 <KUDr_wrk> if there is another caching issue - i need to reproduce the case on two running instances here - client and server 15:07:21 <anboni> bummer :) 15:07:21 <KUDr_wrk> under debugger 15:07:47 <KUDr_wrk> do you have samegame that causes it? 15:08:12 *** TinoMM [n=Tino@i5387C23E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:08:32 *** TinoM [n=Tino@i5387C23E.versanet.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:08:38 *** TinoMM is now known as TinoM 15:08:42 <Brianetta> KUDr: Are yapf settings saved in the savegame, or is t purely cfg? 15:09:34 <KUDr_wrk> Brianetta: all are saved in MP savegame (tranferred to the client) - at least i hoped so 15:09:51 <Brianetta> I'm talking about a local save 15:09:57 <Brianetta> I can't change the settings on the fly 15:09:57 <KUDr_wrk> not all 15:10:07 <Brianetta> so I need to halt the server and change cfg 15:10:21 <KUDr_wrk> some of them (that were added later) are not saved in local save 15:10:23 <Brianetta> I just want to check that this will work before I do it (: 15:10:35 <KUDr_wrk> you can use console 15:10:39 <Brianetta> How? 15:10:42 <Brianetta> I asked before 15:10:55 <KUDr_wrk> patches.yapf.<settingname> = value 15:11:01 <Brianetta> ah 15:11:04 <Brianetta> that's a newone on me 15:11:10 <KUDr_wrk> as usually with any other values 15:11:15 <KUDr_wrk> aha 15:11:21 <Brianetta> I had no idea 15:11:26 <KUDr_wrk> i don'tremember exact syntax 15:11:39 <KUDr_wrk> i can tell you it later from home 15:11:50 <Brianetta> Relaying command: patches.yapf.rail_use_yapf = false 15:11:50 <Brianetta> ERROR: command or variable not found 15:11:52 <Brianetta> It's not that (: 15:11:56 <KUDr_wrk> not i have few people arount - i can't start game and try it 15:12:03 <KUDr_wrk> around 15:12:13 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:12:31 <KUDr_wrk> hmm 15:12:44 <anboni> isn't the command "patch patches.yapf.xxx on" ? 15:12:55 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:12:56 <KUDr_wrk> try another patch value (not yapf related...) 15:13:14 <glx> patch <name> [<value>] 15:13:17 <Brianetta> I can change others 15:13:23 <Brianetta> patch blah = on/off 15:13:31 <Brianetta> yeah 15:14:14 <glx> patch yapf.rail_use_yapf works 15:14:27 <Brianetta> glx, thanks 15:14:29 <KUDr_wrk> ok, so you have the syntax now 15:14:43 <KUDr_wrk> i really don't remember that 15:14:57 <Brianetta> patch yapf.rail_use_yapf off 15:14:57 <Brianetta> patch yapf.rail_use_yapf 15:14:57 <Brianetta> Current value for 'yapf.rail_use_yapf' is: 'on' (min: 0, max: 1) 15:15:04 <Brianetta> ): 15:15:07 <Brianetta> It doesn't believe me 15:15:15 <KUDr_wrk> try 0 15:15:22 <KUDr_wrk> or it can be the old bug 15:15:26 <Brianetta> Why does it say it's 'on'? 15:15:33 <KUDr_wrk> that it shows wrong value 15:15:41 <KUDr_wrk> try false 15:15:44 <KUDr_wrk> or 0 15:15:49 <Brianetta> Current value for 'yapf.rail_use_yapf' is: 'off' (min: 0, max: 1) 15:15:49 <Brianetta> 0 worked (: 15:15:57 <KUDr_wrk> good 15:16:06 <KUDr_wrk> so try desync now 15:16:13 <glx> because the code says 1 -> on, 0 -> off, but you can't use on/off to set them :) 15:16:45 <KUDr_wrk> and please upload savegame and config somewhere - i can look at it today evening 15:16:46 *** Nubian [n=nubian@193.93.73.116] has joined #openttd 15:18:45 <Brianetta> http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/kudr_wants_it.sav 15:18:55 <KUDr_wrk> thanks 15:19:13 <hylje> describing filenames = win 15:19:57 <KUDr_wrk> yes - good descriptive filename on my local HDD 15:20:20 <Brianetta> http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/config_for_kudr.sav 15:20:25 *** GoneWacko^ [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:21:32 <KUDr_wrk> saved 15:21:43 <Zavior> My drives arent named after what they have 15:22:16 <Zavior> Radioasema, poliisi-asema, palo-asema, which would roughtly translate to Radiostation, policestation, firestation.. 15:22:27 <Zavior> But they match nicely in finnish :P 15:22:48 <hylje> ha hah ha 15:23:05 *** TinoM| [n=Tino@i5387C23E.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:23:17 *** GoneWacko^ [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 15:23:24 *** RichK67_wrk [n=RichK67@talk-210-66.talkadsl.com] has joined #openttd 15:24:10 *** Tino|Home [n=Tino@i5387C23E.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:25:32 <RichK67_wrk> ping devs: anyone had a chance to look at the TGP branch - i think its ready for approval-review (only 1 minor gui change to come) 15:27:00 *** GoneWacko^ [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:30:04 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:35:03 *** Hallo is now known as Hallo|2 15:35:38 <TrueLight> Okay, disabling YAPF indeed helped, so it is now confirmed to be a YAPF bug 15:35:56 <TrueLight> Brianetta: this also explains the strange behavoir I noticed 15:37:19 <RichK67_wrk> the desync is a yapf bug? 15:38:06 <TrueLight> this desync, yes 15:38:09 <TrueLight> ther eare some more desyncs 15:38:17 <TrueLight> but the one we had on Brianetta and the coop server, are yes 15:38:31 <Brianetta> RIght 15:38:37 <Brianetta> Time to modify my nightly 15:39:08 <RichK67_wrk> fandabydoobie :) 15:39:35 <peter1138> RichK67_wrk: then make the minor gui change? ;) 15:40:02 <Brianetta> arse, I crashed it 15:40:03 <Belugas> RichK67_wrk : and send a dev mail, some are here some are not 15:40:12 <Brianetta> never type ^D into your openttd console 15:40:25 <TrueLight> Brianetta: lol 15:41:54 <Brianetta> It's off. 15:42:20 <peter1138> that shouldn't really happen... 15:42:37 <RichK67_wrk> peter1138: i could live without it, but others might think different - i was going to add the start date to the New Game dialog, so you can choose the date without having to go fishing in the config panels... worth waiting for?? 15:43:13 <TrueLight> peter1138 / KUDr: when I invalidate the cache of YAPF on SAVE, it works perfectly 15:43:18 <Brianetta> NPF is on the nightly 15:43:21 <Brianetta> NTP on the sandbox 15:43:28 <TrueLight> (nasty fix, but he, it works ;)) 15:43:45 <TrueLight> Hmmz.. no, this will fail when a second client joins 15:43:45 <TrueLight> hehe 15:43:57 <TrueLight> but okay, the problem is YAPF, that is nice to know for sure :) 15:46:59 <TrueLight> k, tnx Brianetta and RichK67_wrk for the savegames and descriptions :) 15:47:07 <Brianetta> (: 15:47:47 <KUDr_wrk> TrueLight: thanks for investigation. I will try to fix it asap but i will keep your hotfix there - for the future it can help 15:47:57 <TrueLight> KUDr_wrk: I hope you can fix it ASAP 15:47:58 <TrueLight> hehe 15:47:58 <RichK67_wrk> np - be glad to get the game stable again... maybe that explains why i was stable last night (eventually) on the Brianetta server... i was the only player 15:48:01 <TrueLight> you beat me ;) 15:48:26 <TrueLight> but KUDr_wrk, I have a savegame here that desyncs every time you join < frame 5 after server start 15:48:32 <TrueLight> so if you can't reproduce it with Brianetta's savegame, let me know 15:48:38 *** Deathmaker [n=Miranda@p548276A8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:48:47 <KUDr_wrk> TrueLight: please, gimme it 15:48:52 <Brianetta> lol 15:49:00 <TrueLight> also, my 'fix' only works for the first player, I can extend it to work for any player and commit it for now? 15:49:02 <KUDr_wrk> sooner = better 15:49:13 <KUDr_wrk> for desync 15:49:24 <Brianetta> It's a nightly 15:49:25 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:49:30 <Brianetta> Stability was never guaranteed (: 15:49:41 <KUDr_wrk> OK, but it is big mistake 15:49:47 <KUDr_wrk> it should not happen 15:50:01 *** Mucht|work [n=Mucht@62.99.225.122] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 15:50:03 <KUDr_wrk> i am sorry for providing you all with such bug 15:50:09 <TrueLight> it happens only once in the X times 15:50:16 <TrueLight> but if you have N trains 15:50:16 <KUDr_wrk> heh 15:50:17 <KUDr_wrk> yes 15:50:19 <TrueLight> it happens X/N ;) 15:50:38 <TrueLight> http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/desync/ <- openttd.cfg has no newgrf, very useful ;) 15:50:50 <TrueLight> ./openttd -D -g save/mytemp.sav > server.log & 15:50:50 <TrueLight> ./openttd -snull -n 127.0.0.1#1 > client1.log & 15:50:53 <KUDr_wrk> many thanks 15:51:02 <TrueLight> That was my only way to reproduce it with 8 out of the 10 15:51:27 <TrueLight> KUDr_wrk: but should I commit my 'fix', or should I just wait for your fix? 15:51:40 <TrueLight> hmmz 15:51:40 <KUDr_wrk> commit it please 15:51:42 <TrueLight> I rather wait for yours :p 15:51:51 <TrueLight> and if you can't fix it within 2 or 3 days, I will commit it :) 15:51:53 <KUDr_wrk> i will play without it and then merge 15:51:54 <TrueLight> it is too ugly :p 15:52:00 <KUDr_wrk> and commit my fix too 15:52:04 <TrueLight> + YapfNotifyTrackLayoutChange(0, 0); 15:52:09 <TrueLight> in saveload.c :o 15:52:17 <KUDr_wrk> no, if you call notification it is correct 15:52:23 <KUDr_wrk> yes 15:52:24 <TrueLight> the place is wrong 15:52:26 <TrueLight> very very wrong :p 15:52:46 <KUDr_wrk> the same as any layout change - so then the cache is exactly in sync 15:52:58 <TrueLight> but it should also happen on client-join 15:53:03 <TrueLight> and that will be a bit tricky 15:53:11 <TrueLight> because the server sends it some ticks before the clients receive it :) 15:53:29 <TrueLight> so I guess it should be a new COMMAND 15:53:31 <KUDr_wrk> aha 15:53:38 <TrueLight> that the server sends out just after a client is joined 15:53:41 <KUDr_wrk> and we will need to tell it all clients 15:53:42 <TrueLight> but that might be very ugly too 15:54:00 <KUDr_wrk> yes, ne command as hotfix ;) 15:54:18 <TrueLight> so short, a clean solution is needed, and as it is a nightly, it doesn't really matter if it takes some days :) 15:54:22 <KUDr_wrk> but it can prevent similar mistakes in the future 15:54:23 <TrueLight> so I just leave it to you :) 15:54:28 <TrueLight> I am too ashamed of my patch :) 15:54:34 <KUDr_wrk> ok 15:54:43 <TrueLight> but let me know if you need any more info 15:54:44 <KUDr_wrk> i will try to do my best 15:54:50 <TrueLight> :) I am sure you will ;) 15:54:58 <TrueLight> I am glad we finally could trace a desync, doesn't happen that often 15:55:12 <KUDr_wrk> ok, this evening (starting in onehour from now) i will be looking at it 15:55:19 <RichK67_wrk> sorry for harping on... if im making a gui change to TGP, are there any other gui features you would like to see on the main dialog? currenlty has size, numtowns, numinds, climate, terrain type, water, roughness, use PNG heightmap, and (will have) start date.... anything else? 15:55:27 <TrueLight> KUDr_wrk: k, great :) 15:55:46 <Brianetta> RichK67_wrk: Snowline height? 15:55:53 <RichK67_wrk> good one 15:56:23 <Brianetta> Could set it to 0 for a very chilly game 15:56:36 <RichK67_wrk> lowest is 3, highest 13 15:56:51 <Brianetta> boo (: 15:57:02 <RichK67_wrk> so it can handle the graduated part snow areas 15:57:28 <Brianetta> I like the way that the part snow areas have fully snowy tracks 15:57:41 <Brianetta> snow really gathers to those rails (: 15:57:52 <RichK67_wrk> yup ;) 15:57:55 <TrueLight> Brianetta: I hate your smilies :( 15:58:26 <hylje> :< 15:58:33 <Brianetta> KUDr: One request, if you're working on yapf - pop in a setting for RVs to score a penalty for rail crossings. 15:58:40 <Brianetta> My smilies are not backwards 15:58:54 <KUDr_wrk> "pop in"? 15:58:59 <Brianetta> heh (: 15:59:00 <TrueLight> I am used to turn my head left wards, a positive rotation direction 15:59:07 <Brianetta> Well, it was in NPF already 15:59:09 <TrueLight> yours are right, a negative rotation direction 15:59:19 <Brianetta> but in YAPF it appears to apply to trains instead of RVs 15:59:29 <Brianetta> Mine are upside down 15:59:34 <Brianetta> reflected 15:59:35 <Brianetta> d: 15:59:35 *** XeryusTC [n=irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 15:59:43 <Brianetta> q: 15:59:46 <KUDr_wrk> Brianetta: i shouldnt do any changes in savegame but i can look at it after that bug 15:59:49 <TrueLight> And it makes me think every time you are said, while you are smiling ;) 15:59:56 <Brianetta> KUDr: Wuv you!] 16:00:02 <Brianetta> (-: 16:00:04 <Brianetta> Mor explicit 16:00:08 <TrueLight> yeah :p 16:00:27 <Brianetta> )-': 16:00:51 <Brianetta> (-:þ 16:00:51 *** GoneWacko^ [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:01:05 <TrueLight> 3/4? 16:01:22 <Brianetta> That's supposed to be the letter thorn 16:01:54 <tokai|ni> using 180° rotated smileys is gay (not, that this is something bad though) :) 16:02:10 <Brianetta> What codepage are you using? 16:02:17 <Brianetta> upside down 16:02:20 <Brianetta> not rotated 16:02:29 <Brianetta> flipped 16:02:38 <TrueLight> twisted! 16:02:40 <tokai|ni> Brianetta: its the 'otter' direction. ;) 16:02:47 * Brianetta groans 16:03:17 <Brianetta> Ÿ is 3/4 16:03:21 <Brianetta> þ is thorn 16:03:31 <TrueLight> [18:03:17] <Brianetta> Ÿ is 3/4 16:03:31 <TrueLight> [18:03:20] <Brianetta> þ is thorn 16:03:32 <TrueLight> lol 16:03:33 <Brianetta> unless you're using some wacky weird set 16:03:44 <Brianetta> TrueLight: You pasted back what I said... 16:03:50 <TrueLight> haha 16:03:53 <TrueLight> I did not! 16:03:53 <tokai|ni> Brianetta: iso-latin1 here 16:03:53 <Brianetta> Are you using Unicode? 16:04:00 <TrueLight> One is an A with a ^ on it 16:04:03 <TrueLight> the other with a ~ on it 16:04:06 <TrueLight> both ending with a 3/4 mark 16:04:11 <Brianetta> Â 16:04:16 <tokai|ni> Brianetta: and I see some A with stuff above (not Ä) and 3/4 sign 16:04:16 <Brianetta> = A with ^ 16:04:25 <glx> Â ã 16:04:29 <TrueLight> Brianetta: no, that is a A with a ~ on it, and a weird char behind it 16:04:41 <Brianetta> You all need to get into the 21st century 16:04:43 <peter1138> EUR 16:04:47 <Brianetta> Stopusing ASCII with a variable upper 127 16:04:50 <TrueLight> I like my client just fine :) 16:04:54 <tokai|ni> using utf on irc is gay too :) 16:04:56 * tokai|ni runs 16:04:59 <Brianetta> Your client is, no doubt, fine 16:05:05 <Brianetta> Just change your character set to UTF 16:05:10 <peter1138> tokai|ni: maybe your OS doesn't support it? ;p 16:05:18 <glx> TrueLight: which client? 16:05:29 <TrueLight> kvirc 16:05:32 <TrueLight> it uses system default 16:05:34 <tokai|ni> peter1138: i think xchat on osx does it when i configure it for that ;) 16:05:37 <glx> works well with utf 16:05:41 <Brianetta> The alternative, if you want you characters to be the same everywhere, is never to use an ASCII character with a value greater than 127 16:06:04 <TrueLight> Brianetta: I don't :) 16:06:13 <TrueLight> glx: it has UTF support yes, but I don't use it :p 16:06:15 <TrueLight> I hate UTF 16:06:20 <peter1138> heh 16:06:31 <Brianetta> I hate 64 bit machine code 16:06:35 <Brianetta> It's still the future 16:06:37 <TrueLight> Brianetta: I don't :) 16:06:44 <peter1138> heh, /branches/utf8 :D 16:06:45 <TrueLight> nah, ASCII won't die :) 16:06:53 <Brianetta> It had better 16:07:05 <peter1138> Brianetta: too many americans :( 16:07:06 <TrueLight> I really don't see why I want to receive weird chars :p 16:07:12 <TrueLight> I like normal chars :) 16:07:19 <Brianetta> Teh smilies!!!!111!!11one 16:07:27 <tokai|ni> btw, who applies patches and closes bug reports theses days on bugs.openttd.org? :) 16:07:38 <Brianetta> {[°o°]} 16:07:47 <Brianetta> Who wouldn't want to see those eyes? 16:08:00 <Brianetta> They're degree symbols, in case your computer is irretrievably stone-aged 16:08:20 <TrueLight> They are degree symbols yes, with a A With a ^ on it before it 16:08:21 <TrueLight> :p 16:08:30 <TrueLight> {[°o°]} 16:08:35 <TrueLight> That is what I would do :p 16:08:40 <RichK67_wrk> ok... anyone else... anything other than snowline height?? (or shall we postpone any extras to v2)??? 16:08:43 <peter1138> so, yeah, the utf8 openttd branch supports cyrillic 'n stuff 16:08:45 <Brianetta> I saw it, but you lost his mouth 16:08:55 <glx> TrueLight: black box for me :) 16:08:58 <peter1138> snowline height, but only where the snowline exists 16:09:00 <TrueLight> which mouth? :p 16:09:13 <Brianetta> TrueLight: IRC underline is an ASCII standard too 16:09:26 <TrueLight> underline? 16:09:27 <TrueLight> what is that? 16:09:31 <RichK67_wrk> peter: is graying out ok?? 16:09:36 <Brianetta> Control-U character 16:09:45 <peter1138> RichK67_wrk: of course, and prefed 16:09:45 <TrueLight> I don't have underline key 16:09:46 <peter1138> err 16:09:48 <peter1138> prefered 16:09:52 <TrueLight> AND WHERE IS MY ANY KEY? 16:09:52 <RichK67_wrk> ok 16:09:56 <glx> test 16:10:14 <tokai|ni> TrueLight: usually "shift and -" (on de and us kbd at least) 16:10:28 <TrueLight> LOL! 16:10:32 <Brianetta> It's cool for practical jokes, like cclick here to see TrueLight naked, etc 16:10:35 <RichK67_wrk> underscore.... 16:10:36 <glx> heh kvirc knows ctrl-U and ctrl-B 16:10:39 <TrueLight> tokai|ni: is there my any key? 16:10:57 <tokai|ni> TrueLight: any keys only exist on modded kbds :) 16:10:59 <TrueLight> glx: of course it does, but it is much more fun to act like you are stupid :) 16:11:11 <tokai|ni> TrueLight: more interesting are "help" keys :) 16:11:23 <tokai|ni> or butterfly magic keys :P 16:11:25 <glx> TrueLight: I just discovered the :P 16:11:28 <Brianetta> tokai: Like backspace? (: 16:11:47 <glx> s/the/that 16:12:19 <TrueLight> pompiedom 16:12:26 <TrueLight> I should start an AJAX implementation in some software 16:12:28 <TrueLight> hmmz 16:12:39 <TrueLight> my feet stink 16:12:39 <TrueLight> hehe 16:12:49 <glx> too hot weather :) 16:12:53 <TrueLight> yup 16:14:12 <TrueLight> k,c rashing my kernel, back in a flash 16:14:23 <tokai|ni> http://www.amiga-hardware.com/download_photos/kpre94yc_1_big.jpg <- check the key left of DEL :) i wonder why no pc keyboard producer ever copied that. 16:14:54 <TrueLight> I hope you mean RIGHT of the DEL key 16:15:01 <tokai|ni> right 16:15:15 <tokai|ni> all this smiley flipping confused my sense of direction, sorry 16:15:20 <Brianetta> pffff 16:15:24 <Brianetta> http://world.std.com/~jdostale/kbd/SpaceCadet.html 16:15:30 <Brianetta> Check that old LISP keyboard out 16:16:15 <Brianetta> No less than seven modifier keys 16:16:16 <tokai|ni> looks a bit weird from todays standard, but the help key is a big + of course :) 16:16:17 <RichK67_wrk> ZX-81 membrane :) 16:16:43 <Brianetta> It has an alt-lock 16:16:46 <Brianetta> alt-lock! 16:16:47 *** GoneWacko^ [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 16:16:48 <Brianetta> How cool? 16:17:18 <Brianetta> Keys didn't repeat unless you were holding down the repeat key 16:17:28 <glx> I didn't like ZX-81 keyboard 16:17:41 *** YoG [n=zevele@bzq-88-153-193-144.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #openttd 16:18:02 <Brianetta> Shift+Greek+L got you a capital Lambda 16:18:46 <RichK67_wrk> ok everyone... last call for any gui proposals for new game screen in TGP.... going once.... 16:19:03 <Brianetta> Number of trees? 16:19:20 <Brianetta> Size of cities? 16:19:38 <Brianetta> Chop map into two islands (yes|no) ? 16:19:46 *** YoG [n=zevele@bzq-88-153-193-144.red.bezeqint.net] has left #openttd [] 16:19:48 <RichK67_wrk> not a current function.... its just gui, not behind scenes features... ive lots of those for v2 (eg. no unmovables, etc) 16:20:20 <Brianetta> Well, *is* there anything else that can be configured? 16:21:19 <RichK67_wrk> cant remember ... anyone got the game infront of them?? 16:22:22 *** GoneWacko^ [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:22:45 *** GoneWacko^ [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 16:23:54 <anboni> max distance for oil refineries? 16:26:01 <RichK67_wrk> thats perhaps not an upfront kind of setting... it will be in the "advanced" panel that i will introduce for v2 16:26:24 <anboni> fair enough 16:26:31 <RichK67_wrk> so far then: start date, snow line 16:27:55 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has joined #openttd 16:28:07 <Belugas> there is a newgrf, unexploited, feature for snowline height. I wonder how it can be achieved... 16:28:38 <Belugas> Hooo... Syd Barret is dead 16:29:24 <Belugas> bye bye Syd 16:29:33 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:30:32 *** GoneWacko^ [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:30:42 <RichK67_wrk> there is always a newgrf something or other... :P 16:31:27 <RichK67_wrk> im just waiting for someone to say "why havent you implemented newgrf terrain generators yet?".... grrrrr ;) 16:32:27 <Belugas> hehehe :) not THAT devious. Maybe it can be done with Callbacks ;) 16:32:52 <RichK67_wrk> belugas: i will need to get started on newgrf airports soon; is there any useful info on how OTTD handles them? (i know absolutely nothing about how...) 16:33:03 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 16:33:17 <RichK67_wrk> ah... you read my little "callbacks are a bad thing"(tm) rant then ;) 16:33:49 <Belugas> 1st, gather all infos on airports into a writable struct array 16:33:52 <RichK67_wrk> frankly, it will kill the whole point of newgrf airports containing the FTA stone dead 16:34:05 *** Wolf01 [n=wolf01@host235-235.pool874.interbusiness.it] has joined #OpenTTD 16:34:22 <Belugas> callbacks are not int the program code, by the way. 16:34:32 <Belugas> they are linked to the newgrf file 16:34:46 <Belugas> so, he was pretty right about it. 16:35:08 <Wolf01> hi all 16:35:13 <Belugas> although, to be honest, i don't reaay know how callbacks really work 16:35:19 <Belugas> hello Wolf01 16:36:18 <Belugas> peter1138 and mart3p are the resources on callbacks, AFAIK 16:38:45 <RichK67_wrk> in this context, the callback is just moving the movement data away from where it needs to be, to a whole host of seperate routines, which will have to be customised by data... an unnecessary abstraction IMO 16:40:11 <peter1138> not really to separate routines, just a callback result 16:40:25 <peter1138> but it's probably not necessary 16:41:07 <RichK67_wrk> i find the way that the newgrf pages are written is really really hard to follow... 16:41:11 <Wolf01> http://www.greatwesterndragon.com/img/Hypnotic.htm sorry girls, but i must link this XD 16:42:29 *** GoneWacko^ [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 16:42:39 <GoneWacko^> *heh*, fucking around with the router 16:42:45 * GoneWacko^ gives up for now 16:45:25 <Brianetta> lol, Wolf01 16:45:25 *** GoneWacko^ [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:46:14 <Wolf01> we at work were hypnotized for about 10 minutes XD 16:46:25 <peter1138> o_O 16:46:25 <Brianetta> Who animated that? 16:46:28 <peter1138> or rather 16:46:29 <peter1138> X_X 16:46:43 <Wolf01> @_@ 16:46:55 <Brianetta> Ø_ø 16:47:11 <Wolf01> Brianetta, i don't know, maybe there is something into the properties of the file 16:47:31 <peter1138> xolod? 16:47:35 * Brianetta stares and stares 16:48:35 <Belugas> bong bong bong bong 16:49:53 <Brianetta> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5380625829368596126 16:50:08 <Belugas> Lovely... song 16:50:21 <Brianetta> That hynotits' soundtrack is the solo part of the one on the right 16:50:23 <Brianetta> er, left 16:50:28 <Brianetta> It's Loituma 16:50:40 <Brianetta> The ginger one sings actual, real words 16:50:41 *** Sedated_ is now known as Sedated 16:50:53 <Brianetta> the dark haired woman's lines are just nonsense 16:51:31 <Sacro> what is it with that song... 16:51:47 *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x535ca23b.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 16:51:48 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 16:51:57 * Sacro is addicted to it 16:52:00 <Brianetta> It mad ethe top of the Finnish charts for weeks 16:52:25 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:52:34 <Brianetta> I find the lead singer oddly attractive 16:52:35 *** angerman_ [n=angerman@e181121078.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 16:53:16 <Brianetta> haha! The original (non-live): http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7185444528444322576 16:54:13 <Brianetta> rather truncated, though 16:54:58 <Sacro> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5823878917461267087 16:54:59 <RichK67_wrk> brianetta - is your game back and stable(ish) 16:54:59 <Sacro> heh 16:55:07 <hylje> leekspin! 16:55:08 <Brianetta> RichK67_wrk: Shoul dbe 16:55:12 <Brianetta> It's on NPF 16:55:18 <RichK67_wrk> excellent... i may pop in later 16:55:43 <Brianetta> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3089346097416008223 <-- REMIX!! 16:55:55 <Sacro> NPF? 16:56:09 <Brianetta> Sacro: It's a pathfinder 16:56:12 * Sacro likes the mention of Ass 16:56:21 <glx> Sacro: yapf cause desyncs 16:57:11 <Brianetta> It's even better than the original (: 16:57:20 <Brianetta> heh, asses! 16:57:31 <Brianetta> These guys are nuts 16:57:51 <peter1138> google video doesn't work for me :( 16:58:05 <Brianetta> Camp beyond eords to describe 16:58:17 <Brianetta> peter1138: You need a recent-ish flash 17:00:33 <vrak> Brianetta: that, uh, whatever you want to call it is... -.- 17:06:54 <Wolf01> RichK67_wrk, have you compiled a new version (maybe with the daylength patch) ? 17:07:20 <Sacro> hmm 17:07:22 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B377DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:07:31 <peter1138> dry cereal-- 17:07:35 *** angerman [n=angerman@e181114201.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:07:53 <glx> Wolf01: if you mean the nightly.openttd.org/... he doesn't compile them 17:08:08 <Wolf01> no, i mean the miniIN 17:08:54 <glx> but he doesn't compile the miniIN files available on nightly.openttd.org/... 17:09:41 <Wolf01> no sorry, i meant if he uploaded a new version on the svn 17:10:22 <glx> no miniIN commit in svn since 7/7 17:13:35 <RichK67_wrk> wolf01: ive said in the forum several times, i am hellish busy, and cannot do any MiniIN updates this week, and probably not until this time next week... if you have an urgent bugfix that must go in, pls ask a nice dev like glx to test & commit it for you ;) 17:14:12 <glx> RichK67_wrk: sorry I don't know well miniIN :) 17:14:37 *** Red956 is now known as Red 17:15:24 <Sacro> wtf is using python... 17:15:37 <Wolf01> is not so important... if you dont use daylenght more than 2x 17:15:51 <Sacro> ahh, gdesklets 17:16:05 <hylje> python 17:16:06 <hylje> ftw 17:16:22 *** Red [n=Red@81-86-117-11.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:17:06 *** Red885 [n=Red@81-86-117-11.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 17:17:41 <Wolf01> i asked for it because when i'm coding i have to revert every time to make a clean patch and merge the bugfix again 17:20:08 <Sacro> Wolf01: tar it, and then untar 17:20:42 <Wolf01> i take less time to revert and merge 17:22:15 *** TrueLight is now known as TL|Away 17:22:38 <RichK67_wrk> ok folks... gotta go 17:23:42 *** RichK67_wrk [n=RichK67@talk-210-66.talkadsl.com] has quit [] 17:25:48 <Belugas> Wolf01, i don't know if that would help you, but i have 5 to 7 different repos, with only two that are clean for commits 17:26:12 <Belugas> so, it is a matter of copying/applying patches from one repo to the other 17:26:39 <Belugas> that's how I work. There may be (surely) some other way of doings... 17:26:55 *** Angst_ [n=Angst@p54946578.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:27:09 <Wolf01> i have 2 repositories too, but them take space... 17:31:18 *** Angst_ [n=Angst@p54946578.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:31:18 *** Angst [n=Angst@p54946578.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:35:43 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Tschüß"] 17:45:58 <CIA-3> miham * r5482 /trunk/lang/dutch.txt: 17:45:58 <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-07-11 19:45:41 17:45:58 <CIA-3> dutch - 1 fixed by webfreakz (1) 17:46:29 <Wolf01> there is an unicode+fixed space font to use in mIRC? 17:47:14 <MiHaMiX> do anyone having a spare STK6712AMK4 step-motor controller chip for sale? 17:47:32 <MiHaMiX> or know a place where I can get it 17:47:32 <peter1138> Wolf01: uh, any font'll do? 17:47:38 <peter1138> ebay? heh 17:48:23 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: hmm, good point, but I need a brand new one.. but I'll give it a try 17:49:09 <MiHaMiX> 0 items found for 17:49:09 <MiHaMiX> STK6712AMK4 in 17:49:12 <MiHaMiX> Consumer Electronics :-( 17:49:56 <MiHaMiX> bbl, supper 17:50:21 *** pwr [n=pwr@82.78.120.186] has joined #openttd 17:51:34 *** RichK67 [n=RichK67@194.164.100.143] has joined #openttd 17:52:05 *** Nubian [n=nubian@193.93.73.116] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:52:38 <Sacro> hmm, does OOo not do access databases 17:55:53 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B377DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 17:55:54 *** Nubian [n=nubian@193.93.73.116] has joined #openttd 18:03:21 *** exe_ [n=dfsfd@pub82.brzesko.net.pl] has joined #openttd 18:05:25 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B82DB2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:12:24 *** pwr [n=pwr@82.78.120.186] has quit ["Client exiting"] 18:14:25 *** tokai|3 [n=tokai@p54B82DB2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:15:08 *** BJH [n=chatzill@e176101113.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:25:25 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B821BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:25:31 *** tokai|ni [n=tokai@p54B821BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:31:06 *** ChrisM87 [n=ChrisM@p54AC6A7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:31:16 <ChrisM87> My OTTD sound is stil bugged :( 18:31:29 <ChrisM87> and Gecko is not running 18:31:37 <ChrisM87> /dev/dsp is completly free 18:31:45 <ChrisM87> and still it sounds ugly and extremly odd 18:32:26 <ChrisM87> Anyone got an idea what I can do? 18:32:46 <ChrisM87> I use Gentoo and sound is onboard AC97 on nForce 4 (very common onboard chip) 18:33:05 <ChrisM87> and: it worked on this computer just fine some time ago but now it doesn't 18:33:11 <ChrisM87> well, sometimes it works correctly 18:33:19 <ChrisM87> but if i quit and restart ottd again, the sound is bugged again 18:34:38 <Bjarni> MiHaMiX: http://www.usbid.com/part.cfm/STK6712AMK4 18:34:47 <Bjarni> it's a really tricky one to find 18:35:01 <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: I already found that page, that was the 2nd hit on google 18:35:14 <Sacro> ChrisM87: i had similar sound problems, but having reinstalled Linux its now fine 18:35:14 <Bjarni> all of my regular places to search for components failed on this one :( 18:35:21 <hylje> :D 18:35:44 <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: but it doesn't mention any _concrete_ item, if just offers some bidding possibility, isn't it? 18:35:50 * Sacro considers unscrewing a few household devices to look for one 18:36:16 <MiHaMiX> Sacro: lol ;) 18:36:21 <Bjarni> MiHaMiX: well, you can always try to see if they can get it for you. Worst case is that they can't 18:36:39 <Bjarni> MiHaMiX: have you considered trying to use a different one or even building your own one? 18:36:44 <MiHaMiX> Sacro: start with the RJS Qualabar barcode printer :D 18:37:02 <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: we need it to fix a broken barcode printer 18:37:12 <Bjarni> ahh 18:37:22 <Bjarni> hmm 18:37:25 <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: it's a relatively cheap part of a quite expensive-yet-useless barcode printer 18:37:25 <Bjarni> tricky 18:37:28 <Belugas> I hate barcode printers 18:37:30 <Belugas> huge 18:37:33 <Belugas> noisy 18:37:35 <Belugas> expensinve 18:37:37 <Sacro> MiHaMiX: hmm...i dont think i have one 18:37:42 <Belugas> hard to interface 18:37:58 <MiHaMiX> Belugas: they are huge, noisy, but.. they are usefull if you have to identify 2million different book :) 18:38:22 <Bjarni> MiHaMiX: contact that link I posted and you can also try to contact the chip manufacture directly 18:38:23 <Belugas> true :) 18:38:28 <MiHaMiX> Sacro: that's what I feared :( 18:38:44 <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: this chip is no longer manufactured, AFAIK. 18:39:09 <Sacro> MiHaMiX: me too :( 18:39:14 <Bjarni> ok, that could be a problem 18:39:15 <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: it has been discontinued 2 years ago 18:39:31 <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: I'm relying on the stock items, I think 18:39:49 <Bjarni> http://www.chipdocs.com/datasheets/datasheet-pdf/SANYO-Electric-Co-Ltd/STK6712AMK4.html <-- use that to find another one, that can do the same job (or build your own, that uses these specs) 18:40:09 <Bjarni> that is, if you fail to find one in stocks somewhere 18:40:44 <Bjarni> oops, that link needs a 95 USD subscription :( 18:41:25 <Bjarni> http://www.digchip.com/datasheets/parts/datasheet/413/STK6712AMK4.php <-- this one needs a free subscription... much better :) 18:42:26 <ChrisM87> @Sacro: I just reinstalled Gentoo one week ago (not because of OTTD) but the problem persists. :( 18:44:00 <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: you mean this? http://www.markaszerviz.hu/php4/cat.php?action=download&ty_pe=STK6712AMK4&group=S 18:45:18 <Bjarni> yeah 18:45:58 <Bjarni> it appears that it got a max voltage of 52 V. Say a modern chip can do the same, but can survive say 70 V, then it can do the same job 18:46:30 <Sacro> ChrisM87: hmm, what sound deamons do you have? 18:46:40 <ChrisM87> Sacro: none 18:46:41 <ChrisM87> direct alsa 18:46:55 <ChrisM87> OSS emulation is enabled in the kernel 18:47:20 <Bjarni> logically when it can survive higher voltage, then it got to have a new number. The need for a controller is still there, so there is a fair chance that you can find a compatible chip somewhere 18:47:22 <ChrisM87> Sound generally works fine, with amaroK, Kaffeine, Flash player etc. 18:47:55 <scia> ChrisM87: have you enabled any newgrfs? 18:48:03 <Bjarni> think of it kind of like putting a 2 GHz CPU on a motherboard that can only handle 1,5 GHz and then you downclock the CPU to make it work together 18:48:07 <Bjarni> the idea is the same 18:48:15 <ChrisM87> scia: Nope, just a normal plain installation 18:48:18 <ChrisM87> without anything 18:48:31 <scia> donno then 18:48:40 <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: hmm.. 18:48:46 <scia> I once had weird sounds with certain newgrfs installed 18:48:58 <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: do you know which controller would be compatible? 18:51:26 *** Sacro [n=ben@adsl-83-100-181-159.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:52:09 <kbrooks> what is the cheapest transport mdium? 18:52:25 <Wolf01> train 18:52:35 <kbrooks> eh? 18:52:38 <kbrooks> why? ... 18:53:32 <Wolf01> trains are a perfect balance between runnig cost, speed and total cargo 18:53:49 <Wolf01> if you know how to use them 18:55:34 *** baske [n=baske@ip-81-11-187-247.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:56:38 <kbrooks> that;'s funny 18:56:48 <kbrooks> there are 3 things near each other 18:57:06 <kbrooks> farm, factory, and a city 19:00:37 <Bjarni> <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: do you know which controller would be compatible? <-- not really :( 19:01:04 <Bjarni> the only thing I can do is to read two datasheets and see if they are somewhat compatible 19:02:26 <peter1138> ask the manufacturer 19:02:54 <Bjarni> yeah 19:03:16 <Bjarni> odds are that they are producing a new chip that is somewhat similar 19:05:18 <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: ok, thanks, I'll try to contact them 19:06:34 <CIA-3> KUDr * r5483 /trunk/vehicle.c: 19:06:34 <CIA-3> -Fix: [YAPF] desync - for MP games invalidate YAPF cache on every tick to keep 19:06:34 <CIA-3> it exactly the same on server and clients (it doesn't fix the real source of the 19:06:34 <CIA-3> problem, but should solve it). Thanks TrueLight for hunting this bug. 19:07:03 <peter1138> every tick? 19:07:08 <KUDr> yes 19:07:13 <peter1138> hmm, any point in a cache? :p 19:07:21 <KUDr> performance impact is still minimal 19:07:33 <KUDr> point? 19:07:48 <peter1138> if you're flushing a cache, why use a cache? 19:07:58 <Bjarni> you cache stuff, and then you flush the cache before you use it, right? 19:08:10 <KUDr> it still has avg CHR > 80% 19:08:13 * peter1138 flushes Bjarni 19:08:18 <KUDr> so still helps a lot 19:08:19 <RichK67> if this bugfix were permanent, then no.... but as its a temporary, its worth retaining while the real solution is found... yeah? 19:08:29 <Bjarni> peter1138: hey, I'm not John 19:08:34 <peter1138> RichK67: well, yes 19:09:09 <KUDr> Bjarni: not really - still used a lot 19:09:41 <KUDr> it is hotfix for now - i can't repro it from savegames provided 19:10:26 <Bjarni> I can see the problem 19:10:37 <KUDr> really? 19:10:40 <hylje> rl 19:10:41 <hylje> y 19:10:51 <Bjarni> you need some event trigger to make all computers make the same cache at the same time 19:10:57 <Bjarni> and how to do that... 19:11:04 <Bjarni> I have absolutely no idea :( 19:11:17 <KUDr> Bjarni: normally they don't need to be the same 19:11:33 <KUDr> but the information gathered from it must be valid 19:11:34 <Bjarni> but then you risk that a train will not behave the same on all computers 19:11:45 <Bjarni> hence, the desyncs 19:11:57 <KUDr> why? 19:12:13 <KUDr> they use the same map 19:12:23 <KUDr> and cache must reflect the map state 19:12:34 <Bjarni> oh wait, you cache track layout, not train positions 19:12:37 <Bjarni> nevermind :) 19:12:49 <KUDr> if not, then it is problem of validity of the cache - forgotten notification or so 19:13:15 <KUDr> yes 19:13:22 <KUDr> tack layout 19:13:25 <KUDr> track 19:13:44 <KUDr> and cost of longer segments 19:14:14 <KUDr> so if the same segment is evaluated again, the cached cost can be reused 19:14:33 *** _bitwise [n=bitwise@84.254.39.60] has quit ["leaving"] 19:14:46 <KUDr> this doesn't require to keep the caches in sync 19:14:57 <KUDr> but keeping it valid is a must 19:15:14 <KUDr> and here it looks that some info in it was invalid 19:15:26 <KUDr> but after restarting server it is gone 19:15:30 <KUDr> for some time 19:15:43 <KUDr> and here i dont understand it 19:15:52 <KUDr> why 19:16:34 <KUDr> so if i try to use TL's savegame it is like restarted server and then it works fine 19:18:05 <RichK67> KUDr - in the brianetta game, i had a really long stretch of track that ended in an open end... is that a possible problem? 19:18:40 <KUDr> long or short, should be the same 19:18:45 <KUDr> this i had many times 19:18:56 <KUDr> and never desynced 19:19:00 <RichK67> ok 19:19:02 <KUDr> i really dunno 19:19:30 <KUDr> i need some case where i can start new instance of game, load game or do some steps and repro it 19:19:53 <KUDr> otherwise i don't know where to start 19:20:12 <KUDr> i should think more about YAPF diagnostics 19:22:32 *** Artea [i=xtreme@bl7-208-143.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #openttd [] 19:22:40 *** Artea_ [i=xtreme@bl7-208-143.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 19:22:46 <Artea_> my server rules 19:22:48 <Artea_> :D 19:22:58 <Artea_> 18 hours up 19:22:59 <Artea_> :D 19:24:54 *** zemei [n=zemei@dsl5400E807.pool.t-online.hu] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"] 19:27:43 <RichK67> lol - i worked on a project for Digital - requirement was a server uptime of 99.8% (ie. allowing 3hours downtime per year).... actual performance was 1.5hours downtime in 7years :) 19:28:06 <RichK67> triple redundant :) 19:28:55 *** Morlark [n=Sean@host81-154-12-107.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:29:20 <hylje> ive around 420d uptimes 19:29:48 <RichK67> excellent :) and now i use Micro-flakey-soft ;) 19:31:47 <peter1138> 99.8 allows about a day... 19:32:38 *** DJ_Mirage [n=martijn@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Probably doing something else"] 19:33:21 <RichK67> 0.73 19:33:33 <XeryusTC> 17.52 hours 19:33:39 <vrak> -.- 19:34:15 <XeryusTC> which is 17 hours 31 minutes and 12 seconds :P 19:34:25 <RichK67> it was 3 hours allowed, so its whatever that percentage - im trying to remember the spec from 11years ago :) 19:34:52 <XeryusTC> :) 19:36:09 <RichK67> 99.97% 19:37:19 <RichK67> vax cluster using triple redundant everything; power, hot swap disks, processors (you could kill one processor - yank the board - and it wouldnt blink)... it was hot! 19:38:06 <RichK67> it was for a financial organisation for whom seconds were worth millions... 19:38:13 <hylje> :o 19:38:24 <hylje> hotswap procs 19:38:25 <hylje> ftw 19:38:30 <XeryusTC> lol 19:39:10 <RichK67> it ran same code on all 3 at the same time... and then arbitrated result... if one died, the arbitrator didnt flinch... even two was ok 19:39:35 <RichK67> sync was hardwired ;) 19:40:00 <Bjarni> thanks RichK67. You just reminded me of this one: http://www.bash.org/?65677 19:40:27 <XeryusTC> RichK67: someone ever got engineerd? :P 19:40:44 <RichK67> bjarni: lol 19:40:48 <XeryusTC> hehe 19:40:56 <XeryusTC> Operating System: [Win2K Professional 5.0 Service Pack 4 (Build #2195)] € Uptime: [4d 23h 29m 17s] € Record Uptime: [1w 4d 5h 4m 38s set on Wed Jul 05 22:12:40 2006] 19:41:08 <XeryusTC> got 3 weeks on a previous install once... 19:41:20 <XeryusTC> well, almost 19:42:33 <hylje> puny 19:42:41 <RichK67> my old win95 machine was damned stable... but only if you didnt do anything except disk access... fine for a disk server :) 19:43:08 <hylje> stability is relative 19:43:34 <Bjarni> I could get pretty good uptimes on my computer. It never crashes.... only issue is that I usually turn it off when I'm not using it 19:43:37 *** zemei [n=zemei@dsl5400E807.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 19:43:37 <RichK67> and my relatives arent ;) 19:43:44 <Bjarni> that kind of kills the uptime, but it saves on the power bill 19:44:21 <Bjarni> RichK67: well, I guess you fit right in your family then 19:44:33 <RichK67> :P ;) LOL 19:45:04 *** Mucht|zZz [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit ["I'll be back!"] 19:46:10 <Zavior> Bjarni, it might never crash because you do turn it off sometimes :D 19:46:54 <Bjarni> Zavior: ok, you go ahead and crash OSX 19:46:59 <Bjarni> good luck 19:47:42 <Bjarni> the only ways I know is to remove all free space to kill swap space or to install bad kernels 19:47:51 <Bjarni> otherwise pretty stable 19:48:56 <Bjarni> http://www.bash.org/?109501 <-- hahaha 19:49:15 <Bjarni> luckily it's not an uptime counted in weeks 19:49:37 <XeryusTC> Bjarni needs to be banned 19:50:03 <XeryusTC> :P 19:50:14 <Bjarni> why? 19:51:33 *** IneQuation [n=void@aaod99.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["Poof!"] 19:51:36 <Bjarni> if you are referring to what the topic once said, then peter wrote it and I outrank peter, so it would not apply to me 19:52:02 <RichK67> muhahahaha 19:52:15 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [n=johekr@p54B75DDD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:52:50 <XeryusTC> Bjarni: basicly, yes :P 19:52:52 *** Eddi|zuHause [n=johekr@p54B75DDD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:00:32 *** KritiK [i=Maxim@ppp15-166.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 20:01:36 *** scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:02:00 <Bjarni> oh, that reminds me of a law I once read on dumblaws.com. Town council members can't get a speed ticket while the town council is in session 20:04:01 <XeryusTC> Bjarni: it sounds pretty usefull 20:04:33 <XeryusTC> although people should learn to arrive in time 20:08:05 *** angerman_ [n=angerman@e181121078.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 20:10:40 *** Hallo|2 [n=me@c094.fem.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [] 20:13:58 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.cable.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:15:00 <TL|Away> KUDr: nice patch, but one comment: 20:15:16 <KUDr> it is hotfix only 20:15:19 <TL|Away> the idea of OpenTTD is that if you load a savegame 20:15:27 <TL|Away> it does exactly the same as when you continue playing 20:15:36 <TL|Away> this 'bug' means it is possible that it does not 20:15:37 <KUDr> it should 20:15:47 <TL|Away> clearly not, else clients wouldn't pick an other route ;) 20:15:47 <KUDr> yes 20:15:51 <KUDr> true 20:15:56 <KUDr> so i must hunt it 20:15:59 <TL|Away> So please keep looking for the real problem :) 20:16:03 <KUDr> but the question is how 20:16:07 <TL|Away> That was my point yes ;) hehe :p 20:16:15 <TL|Away> I don't know YAPF 20:16:22 <TL|Away> and I don't like C++, so I will never know it :) 20:16:24 <KUDr> it is related to the server state 20:16:27 <TL|Away> so that you have to ask yourself ;) 20:16:29 <KUDr> after long time 20:16:38 <KUDr> like when there is something different 20:16:43 <KUDr> but yapf is stateless 20:16:48 <TL|Away> Make sure that when ever a path is calculated, both return the same 20:17:12 <KUDr> yes it was so 20:17:18 <TL|Away> it looks like it only happens when a train is on a point it can still go both ways, but the server already made up his mind 20:17:19 <KUDr> i checked it many times 20:17:32 <KUDr> but now it looks that something is different 20:17:38 <KUDr> it can be signals states 20:17:43 <KUDr> or train positions 20:17:56 <TL|Away> What ever it is, the cache isn't correct at all times :) 20:17:58 <KUDr> or anything what influences pathfinding 20:18:02 <TL|Away> (relative between server and client) 20:18:10 <KUDr> yes, true 20:18:18 <KUDr> so i must hunt it in cache 20:18:26 <TL|Away> so, the question is what can make the cache give different values 20:18:39 <TL|Away> what you called the notify stuff 20:18:42 <KUDr> invalid value in the cache 20:18:51 <KUDr> 1) corrupted cached data 20:19:06 <KUDr> 2) forgotten change notification 20:19:14 <KUDr> it is all probably 20:19:24 <TL|Away> I can rule out 2) btw, I joined a client right after a server (the server had 4 more frames) 20:19:34 <hylje> :o 20:19:42 <TL|Away> or in that 4 frames it should have happened 20:19:43 <KUDr> good 20:19:53 <TL|Away> but that would be a weird coinsidends 20:19:58 <TL|Away> (how ever you write that last word :p) 20:20:01 <KUDr> so it looks that cached info is corrupted after the time 20:20:12 <TL|Away> hmmz, dunno 20:20:17 <TL|Away> as I said, 4 frames more on server 20:20:19 <KUDr> but one experience that doesnt fit into tha 20:20:21 <TL|Away> hard to corrupt :) 20:20:22 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:20:32 <TL|Away> But okay, is it possible that it is this: 20:20:41 <KUDr> that if you restart server it helps for a while 20:20:44 <TL|Away> when a train is at 2, 2 of a tile (so of the 16x16 pixels) 20:21:04 <TL|Away> it can still pick route a and route b (if the tile goes multiple ways) 20:21:13 <TL|Away> but when you are 3, 2 you can't pick this anymore 20:21:18 <TL|Away> while both routes go via 3, 2 20:21:31 <TL|Away> (you understand a bit what I am trying to say?) 20:21:39 <KUDr> yes 20:21:51 <KUDr> but not sure how it can happen 20:21:53 <TL|Away> I dunno of such rare situation can influence the path-picking process :) 20:22:16 <Bjarni> goodnight people 20:22:19 <TL|Away> night Bjarni 20:22:27 *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x535ca23b.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:22:28 <KUDr> it can happen only when there are differencies in train positions 20:22:56 <KUDr> Bja: gn 20:23:11 <TL|Away> KUDr: if I load a game 20:23:18 <TL|Away> and I am at a tile that can go both routes 20:23:26 <KUDr> TL|Away: i am playing your game for hours but no desync 20:23:33 <TL|Away> does YAPF calculate a route then? 20:23:42 <KUDr> yes 20:23:58 <TL|Away> does YAPF consider current x/y position within the tile? 20:24:07 <KUDr> no 20:24:21 <TL|Away> hmmz 20:24:24 <KUDr> train controller does 20:24:32 <TL|Away> I still suspect that it is something in this neighbour 20:24:35 <KUDr> and train controller invokes yapf 20:24:41 <TL|Away> but I have no idea how YAPF really works, and I really don't want to know ;) 20:24:56 <KUDr> it is the same as any other PF 20:25:17 <KUDr> it only recommends the bect choice 20:25:26 <KUDr> depending on situation 20:25:39 <TL|Away> k 20:25:42 <KUDr> but only when it is invoked by controller 20:25:42 <TL|Away> then I am out of ideas ;) 20:25:43 <TL|Away> hehe :p 20:25:56 <TL|Away> Btw, my game does desync when you join in the first 5 frames 20:26:03 <TL|Away> and on other moments too 20:26:08 <TL|Away> but it is a bit of a lottery 20:26:16 <TL|Away> 1 out of the 10 desyncs when you join at a random moment 20:26:24 <TL|Away> above the 120 frames it happens more often 20:26:41 <KUDr> so if there is different train position little difference inside tile, it can influence signal states and YAPF can then decide differentlyu 20:26:51 <TL|Away> Possible 20:27:13 <KUDr> do i need to build some track? 20:27:13 <TL|Away> but only 20:27:19 <KUDr> or only connect 20:27:21 <TL|Away> if the PF decides a path without really changing the trains direction 20:27:26 <TL|Away> I only watch 20:27:29 <TL|Away> do nothing else at all 20:27:36 <KUDr> me too 20:27:37 <TL|Away> (dedicated server + 1 client 20:27:51 <KUDr> i don't have dedicated server 20:27:57 <TL|Away> Start it with -D :p 20:27:59 <KUDr> but 1 or more clients 20:28:06 <KUDr> joining the same company 20:28:35 <TL|Away> but okay, try a bit around, try to see if such conditions can occour 20:28:50 <TL|Away> I have to go 20:28:52 <TL|Away> my gf complains :p 20:28:55 <KUDr> ok 20:28:59 <TL|Away> I hope you can find it :) 20:29:00 <KUDr> thanks for now 20:29:03 <TL|Away> Good luck anyway :) 20:29:04 <TL|Away> bye 20:29:05 <TL|Away> night all 20:29:08 <KUDr> gn 20:31:42 *** Dribbel [n=martijn@ipd50a782f.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 20:32:55 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has quit ["Odletam do paralelniho vesmiru..."] 20:35:03 *** Dribbel [n=martijn@ipd50a782f.speed.planet.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:35:37 *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone 20:35:54 <Belugas_Gone> night all 20:44:05 *** dp [n=dp@p54B2ED69.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:45:00 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 20:47:08 *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD5E03EB1.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:50:57 <Eddi|zuHause> hmz... how do i get the flash plugin to play sounds in linux? 20:53:48 <RichK67> comments please... http://ottd.rkhosting.co.uk/screenshot.png 20:54:36 <anboni> no snowline after all? 20:54:54 <RichK67> ive just not added it... but id like view on arrangement of rest 20:55:03 <Zavior> That red backround on date setting sucks. 20:55:29 <RichK67> the snowline will go in the middle, if i have enough widgets (ive 27 so far.. i think limit is 31) 20:55:56 <anboni> yeah, i'd change date setting to the default orange i think 20:55:57 <RichK67> so other than "it sucks" ... what positive choice would you have instead 20:56:12 <RichK67> with black text??? 20:56:25 <Zavior> Yellow backround with black text :( 20:56:34 <Zavior> But thats just my opinion 20:56:50 <RichK67> do you not like your own opinion?? 20:56:51 <Zavior> Now its just screaming there 20:56:53 <anboni> yeah.. think so.. this red background kinda signals something very special 20:56:54 *** Zahl [n=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-207-002.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["YOU! It was you wasn't it!?"] 20:57:11 <RichK67> ok - so still fair enough for Generate and Use PNG then? 20:57:21 <anboni> i was just wondering about that :) 20:57:22 <Zavior> Ya 20:57:33 *** Dribbel [n=martijn@ipd50a782f.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 20:57:46 <RichK67> i considered green for Generate background# 20:57:53 <anboni> i'm thinking make the generate button green 20:57:57 <anboni> :) 20:58:46 <anboni> and maybe make the PNG button the blue background.. makes it stand out, but not shout 'danger' :) 20:58:47 *** dp-- [n=dp@p54B2FBA5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:58:47 *** dp is now known as dp-- 20:59:43 <RichK67> ok 20:59:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Di Jul 11 2006] [19:46:29] <Wolf01> there is an unicode+fixed space font to use in mIRC? <- i used to use "Fixedsys Excalibur", maybe google for it 21:00:17 <RichK67> ok recompiling 21:00:21 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... that date format is seriously fucked up... 21:00:35 <RichK67> how so? 21:00:47 <Eddi|zuHause> it switched the day and the month 21:01:07 <RichK67> nope... that is normal *english* way of displaying it 21:01:20 <Eddi|zuHause> well, but not in a german locale setting :p 21:01:43 <anboni> Eddi|zuHause, still using suse? 21:01:45 <RichK67> yeah... well, i assume {DATE_LONG} will use whatever is your local way 21:01:57 <Eddi|zuHause> plus, it should have a . after the 11 21:02:01 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B377DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:02:07 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, anboni 21:02:21 <RichK67> huh? what 11? 21:02:29 <Eddi|zuHause> the day ;) 21:02:38 <anboni> Applications / Utitilies / Desktop / Control Center 21:02:44 <anboni> might be able to find some useful settings there 21:03:10 <RichK67> 1st is fine 21:04:01 <RichK67> http://ottd.rkhosting.co.uk/screenshot1.png better? 21:04:03 *** Dribbel [n=martijn@ipd50a782f.speed.planet.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:04:45 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [n=johekr@p54B75DDD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:05:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> grr... how much of my last words came through? 21:05:20 <anboni> Eddi|zuHause the day ;) < was the last 21:05:49 <anboni> RichK67, much better :) maybe make the Generate text white instead of this yellow 21:05:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> [2006-07-11 23:03] <Eddi|zuHause> in the german date format that would be "11. Juli 2006" 21:05:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> [2006-07-11 23:04] <Eddi|zuHause> it is also very interesting how Konversation uses a different date format for displaying and for logging... 21:06:19 <anboni> and perhaps reduce the start date to just a year display, and add the text "start year" or something like that to it 21:06:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> i might look into a different chat client 21:06:33 <anboni> i sorta like xchat 21:07:10 <anboni> although that does have a few drawbacks too.. like i cant copy+paste a line including the timestamp 21:08:03 <Artea_> dbg: [NET] Artea reported an error and is closing his connection (desync error) 21:08:05 <RichK67> dang... changing the text colour for Generate changes english.txt... full recompile :( 21:08:11 <Artea_> in 2031 21:08:17 <anboni> duh 21:08:33 <Artea_> 81 years :'( 21:09:28 <RichK67> should i make the generate button bigger?? ie. taller? 21:09:55 <anboni> hmm.. yeah, that might be a good idea too... make it stand out just a tad more 21:10:14 <RichK67> ok 21:10:44 <Artea_> an IRC Chat Window inside of OpenTTD... no ? ;) 21:10:49 <Artea_> * a 21:10:57 <hylje> OTTD window manager 21:10:59 <hylje> ftw ? 21:11:56 <Artea_> a IRC Window Chat 21:12:08 <Artea_> a IRC Client for OTTD... 21:14:07 <Artea_> "Unofficial IRC API - A fast & efficient method of communicating with an IRC host using the IRC (RFC1459) Protocol. Intended for developers who desire an effective library of functions for communicating with an IRC server without knowledge of the protocol." 21:14:56 <RichK67> ok... how about this then... http://ottd.rkhosting.co.uk/screenshot2.png 21:15:32 <Artea_> cute 21:16:16 *** thgergo [n=th_gergo@dsl51B7A196.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:16:41 <RichK67> zavior, eddi, anboni? 21:17:17 <anboni> RichK67, perfect:) just maybe that date display 21:17:42 <Zavior> Looks fine 21:18:28 <anboni> RichK67, oh and maybe move the PNG button up a few pixels so it's aligned with the terrain type button 21:18:35 <anboni> but not quite sure on that one 21:18:45 <kbrooks> heh 21:19:10 <kbrooks> this company SUCKS 21:19:37 <kbrooks> they put 2 airports NEAR each other 21:19:51 <kbrooks> and it doesnt give them good income 21:20:01 <Artea_> ... 21:20:32 <kbrooks> ignore me if you want 21:20:36 <Artea_> lolz 21:20:37 <RichK67> dang... in other languages, there isnt enough space for the "map size" phrase 21:20:59 <Artea_> RichK67: can u create the resize GUI ? 21:21:02 <anboni> hmmm.. dang, good point.. "Map grootte" in dutch.. and that's already cheating 21:21:11 <Artea_> * automatic-resize GUI 21:21:24 <RichK67> anboni - i deliberately moved it down to not align... it was a bit cramped 21:21:40 <anboni> ok, like i said, not sure :) 21:22:00 <RichK67> gui in OTTD is horrid... hardcoded numbers, and no easy way to change them 21:22:26 <Artea_> i was talking about size 21:22:31 <RichK67> date display is regionalised in other languages... german shows 1. .... 21:22:32 <anboni> yeah... making the station window resizable was a bit of a nightmare :) 21:23:05 <Artea_> automatic resizing, counting the letters for that 21:23:18 <Artea_> for example 21:23:39 <RichK67> artea - *every* line and item is explicitly positioned by an x and y... its all hardcoded... so, no, there is no resize available 21:23:55 <Artea_> Scenario (EN) Cenário (PT) 21:24:05 <Artea_> is 1 letter difference 21:24:18 <Artea_> u can program to lenght the letters 21:24:23 <Artea_> and resize it automatic 21:24:34 <anboni> Artea_, that can NOT be done without a MAJOR overhaul of the ui system 21:24:34 <RichK67> not for fixed widgets you cant 21:24:52 <Artea_> ok 21:24:59 <RichK67> its a nightmare 21:25:22 <Artea_> who u create the Window ? 21:25:33 <Artea_> errrr 21:26:31 *** XeryusTC [n=irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:26:43 <Artea_> the window is created with math code ? 21:27:25 <glx> just the try&see method :) 21:27:46 <Artea_> because 21:27:50 <Artea_> if is 21:27:58 <Artea_> is easy to code 21:28:02 <Wolf01> 'night all 21:28:02 <Artea_> like 21:28:06 *** Wolf01 [n=wolf01@host235-235.pool874.interbusiness.it] has quit ["e ricordate, per la legge di avogadro non esiste cazzo quadro"] 21:28:27 *** Eddi|zuHause [n=johekr@p54B75DDD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:28:29 <glx> Artea_: a "window" is an array of widget, with all values hardcoded 21:28:38 <Artea_> hummmmm 21:29:31 <Artea_> so is dificult to make a IRC Window GUI, a Admin Tools GUI, Network Info GUI 21:29:37 <Artea_> and bla bla bla 21:29:43 <hylje> no 21:29:48 <hylje> but getting it right is 21:30:31 <Artea_> i need to see the code 21:30:32 <glx> and you can have 32 widgets at max in a window 21:30:45 <Artea_> i just only saw the 4 files to change Town Names... 21:30:47 <hylje> glx: by default, i recall it not being a hard limit 21:31:02 <hylje> Artea_: svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk/ 21:31:17 <Artea_> i know svn 21:31:24 <glx> hylje: disable state is an uint32 I think 21:32:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> Artea_: check "whatever_gui.c" file 21:32:39 <Artea_> ok 21:33:09 <RichK67> some are awkward still... italian, brazilian, catalan overflows 21:33:37 *** Dred_furst [i=nn@user-778.wfd75b.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.0 :: www.XLhost.de )"] 21:33:50 <hylje> is the ukrs + replace vehicles overflowing fixed yet 21:35:07 <Artea_> is easy to make a diagonal station ? 21:35:39 <RichK67> http://ottd.rkhosting.co.uk/screenshoten.png 21:35:57 <RichK67> http://ottd.rkhosting.co.uk/screenshotge.png 21:36:08 <glx> RichK67: fr too? 21:36:08 <RichK67> http://ottd.rkhosting.co.uk/screenshotbr.png 21:36:08 <Artea_> good 21:36:55 <RichK67> http://ottd.rkhosting.co.uk/screenshotfr.png 21:37:01 <anboni> hmm.. brazil is still a bit off :( but otherwise it's looking good 21:37:05 <RichK67> just for french... its the darn colon 21:37:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's "de", not "ge" 21:38:33 <RichK67> when its the first two letters of the english name i was typing, its ge ;) 21:38:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> could use a few more translations... 21:38:54 <RichK67> not committed to trunk (yet) 21:39:27 <peter1138> that generate button is *ugly* :P 21:39:32 <Artea_> in few weeks 21:39:46 <Artea_> i will make the 2 a 4 Dedicated Windows Servre 21:39:46 <RichK67> where is the "strangle-someone" emoticon?? 21:39:48 <Artea_> * Server 21:39:49 <Artea_> :D 21:40:23 <RichK67> peter: serious?? or just kidding? 21:40:47 <Artea_> i just saw the game don't send a large uploads 21:40:57 <Artea_> about 0.38kbps 21:41:02 <peter1138> seriously 21:41:10 <RichK67> ok... suggestion then? 21:41:12 <peter1138> like a sore thumb 21:41:17 <peter1138> er, well, dunno :) 21:41:19 <Artea_> just get bigger then someone is downloading the scenario 21:41:20 <Artea_> :) 21:41:25 <peter1138> the rest of the gui is fine, apart from the overlapping text 21:41:45 <Artea_> peter1138: do u know if can autoresize 21:41:51 <Artea_> the gui ? 21:42:01 <RichK67> so what dont you like... the size (to make it clear), the colour (ditto)?? 21:42:05 <peter1138> what do you mean by that? 21:42:09 <peter1138> RichK67: both i think 21:42:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> i am afraid "Anzahl der Städte" and "Anzahl der Industrien" (or similar) is hard to fit in there 21:42:21 <peter1138> RichK67: perhaps make it look like the others, but give it its own line 21:42:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> (No. Towns/Industries) 21:42:47 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: yeah, then the gui should be made to accomodate 21:43:05 <RichK67> nah... i dont want that.. sick of boring narrow buttons... it wont stand out ... i did have it in red, so this is positively toned down ;) 21:43:26 <Artea_> peter1138: a resize with count the length of word 21:44:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> who was responsible for the GUI rewrite again :p 21:44:40 <Artea_> in math code is easy to make it 21:44:50 <RichK67> peter: i feel both of the PNG and Generate buttons need to clearly stand out... PNG does with colour, Generate (Green=go) with colour and size 21:45:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> i kinda like the colour 21:45:20 *** Angst [n=Angst@p54946578.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["gn"] 21:45:21 <peter1138> Artea_: possible, but only manually 21:45:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> not so sure with the size 21:45:48 <peter1138> what's maths got to do with a gui? heh 21:45:54 <Artea_> i know make a autoresize window in Turbo Pascal 21:45:56 <Artea_> HAHAHA 21:45:56 <peter1138> (calculate dimensions is not exactly maths...) 21:46:20 <RichK67> maybe line up top of generate button with bottom of "sea level" button... so reduce by about 1/4 21:46:25 <Artea_> you can lenght the word 21:46:38 <Artea_> and add to 'x' var 21:46:48 <peter1138> length the word? 21:46:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> OTTD isn't exactly built on top of TurboVision (or similar) :p 21:47:02 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: no, it's far superior ;) 21:47:04 <Artea_> Scenario = 8 letters 21:47:05 <kbrooks> its written in C 21:47:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Artea_> Scenario = 8 letters <- which all have different length 21:47:37 <Artea_> Eddi|zuHause2 21:47:42 <Artea_> it's that i try to say 21:48:07 <Artea_> you can code to length the word 21:48:13 <Artea_> and resize it automatic 21:48:20 <peter1138> length *of* the word 21:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> but like it is already said multiple times, the current GUI code does not support that 21:48:29 <Artea_> ;) 21:48:42 <Artea_> not support now 21:48:43 <Artea_> ;) 21:48:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> and you have like 2 dozen languages 21:48:54 <RichK67> http://ottd.rkhosting.co.uk/screenshot3.png <-- slightly slimmer generate button 21:49:10 *** zemei [n=zemei@dsl5400E807.pool.t-online.hu] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"] 21:49:13 <Artea_> Eddi|zuHause2: all words is in lang directory 21:49:38 <peter1138> anyway 21:49:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> don't try to argue ;) 21:49:41 <Artea_> it's easy to manipulate a code to access it 21:49:43 <peter1138> getting the length of a string is not hard 21:50:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> if they say it's not possible, it is not, unless you provide a GUI code rewrite (huge project!) 21:50:13 <anboni> Artea_, try actually coding some GUI stuff in ottd before you start saying 'it's easy" 21:50:55 <Artea_> anboni: in point of newbie coder (only coded in *P*a*s*c*a*l*) 21:51:06 <Artea_> i just say anything 21:51:25 <Artea_> a re-ajust gui 21:51:27 <anboni> Artea_, then stop talking this bullshit when 3 or 4 people have already told you that it cannot be done 21:51:33 <Artea_> in theory it's easy 21:51:43 <peter1138> oh, it can be done, but with a design change 21:51:57 <peter1138> gui elements need to be position relative to others, instead of absolute 21:51:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> but still, i think the town and industry dropdowns should be over each other, than next to each other... to allow for longer texts 21:51:58 <RichK67> (total rewrite of all 100+ guis) 21:52:31 <RichK67> eddi: ok... can do 21:53:26 <Artea_> anboni: i going shut my f**** mouth... it's better... no ? 21:53:31 * peter1138 ponders a gtk style gui system ... boxes 'n stuff 21:53:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> can it be that the random seed field is higher than the randomise button? 21:55:12 *** Artea_ is now known as Artea_aWaY|Codin 21:55:31 *** Artea_aWaY|Codin is now known as Artea_Code_TNG-P 21:56:02 <RichK67> it was 1 pixel higher 21:56:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> that will always bother me in the future, now that i know ;) 21:56:44 <RichK67> sorted 21:56:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> ok :) 21:56:53 <anboni> night folks 22:00:34 *** Artea_Code_TNG-P is now known as Artea 22:01:02 <RichK67> http://ottd.rkhosting.co.uk/screenshot4.png 22:03:31 <RichK67> eddi, anboni, peter... comments? 22:04:38 <peter1138> yeah, it's way past my bedtime 22:04:40 *** TinoM [n=Tino@i5387C23E.versanet.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 22:04:53 <RichK67> lol 22:05:04 <peter1138> the spacing needs some tweaking, to be consistent 22:05:39 <RichK67> just no. of inds? 22:08:03 <RichK67> http://ottd.rkhosting.co.uk/screenshot5.png 22:08:06 <RichK67> updated 22:10:37 <peter1138> better 22:10:57 <RichK67> ok - now to add snow line 22:11:09 <Nubian> hmm 22:11:11 <RichK67> and then that is it... TGP ready for approval 22:11:24 <RichK67> hmm... what? 22:13:01 <peter1138> well, commit that to your branch, no? 22:13:25 <RichK67> i will when ive put the snow line control in 22:14:30 <ln-> what's DC_NO_RAIL_OVERLAP? 22:17:22 *** Trenskow [n=outlet@85.218.142.227] has joined #openttd 22:17:30 *** ChrisM87 [n=ChrisM@p54AC6A7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:21:44 <ln-> player.h:238: why does the function have to be on one single line? 22:22:35 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B82DB2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["It's like, wah."] 22:24:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> functions in .h files is one of the worst parts of C 22:25:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> actually, .h files are ;) 22:25:18 <glx> it just doesn't follow coding style 22:30:38 <KUDr> but it helps with performance 22:30:52 *** Nubian [n=nubian@193.93.73.116] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:33:16 <glx> KUDr: how can it helps with performance ? 22:33:36 <glx> or you speak of .h generally 22:33:40 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B377DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 22:34:09 <KUDr> inline functions in .h are more often used for inlining 22:34:27 <KUDr> during optimization phase 22:34:52 <glx> yes I agree with that, I just said player.h:238 doesn't follow coding style :) 22:34:54 <KUDr> linker is not always able to use inline function effectively 22:35:06 <KUDr> aha 22:35:26 <KUDr> i thought it was about functions in .h generally 22:35:34 <KUDr> they are helpfull 22:36:20 <glx> inline function are important for code speed 22:37:11 <KUDr> yes, this was my suggestion 22:37:34 <ln-> writing an inline function on one line is not. 22:37:56 <glx> ln-: that's just a coding style bug :) 22:40:00 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:40:03 <RichK67> i need help... i want to add a simple drop down with the numbers 3..13 for snow line height... but using the static const StringID snow_line[] = {..., ..., ....}; i have to elaborate each of the numbers as strings in english.txt ... is there any way around this? 22:40:44 <glx> use StringID + offset fr displaying 22:40:47 <glx> *for 22:40:48 <KUDr> 3, 4, 5 must be also translated or not? 22:40:52 *** Jezral [n=projectj@130.226.173.20] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:41:26 <eQualizer> Is it known bug that helicopters get stuck over competitors' airports? 22:41:28 <RichK67> glx: nope... its the whole having to declare the numbers as strings 22:42:00 <eQualizer> (Don't know did that one get stuck while being over it when it was build or did it just flew there and got stuck.) 22:42:01 <glx> you can use temp stringID with DrawText 22:42:33 <RichK67> in the drop down? 22:42:48 <glx> how it is done for map size? 22:42:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> RichK67: how about doing the numbers as parameters? 22:43:03 <RichK67> same - elaborated strings 22:43:03 <peter1138> map sizes are pre-allocated 22:43:15 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Tschüß"] 22:43:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> like, you have one string {number} (or whatever) 22:43:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> and insert the parameter then for display 22:43:34 <glx> yes that should work 22:43:48 <peter1138> dropdowns *only* work with string ids with no parameters 22:43:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> ugh 22:44:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> fun ;) 22:44:05 <RichK67> yup - thats what i feared 22:44:16 <peter1138> reason: the drop down is only set up once 22:44:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> then don't use a dropdown, use arrows instead 22:44:26 <peter1138> there after, redraws will not have the same information 22:44:29 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:44:52 <RichK67> arrows mean i need space for the up and down arrows, plus the number... this way its just number and down arrow 22:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... don't the patche options or difficulty settings have arrows all over the place? what is wrong with those? 22:46:39 <RichK67> not the same sort of arrows as the main gui ones... they will look odd 22:48:10 <glx> you can display it like date: down-number-up 22:48:22 <ln-> what's the RailType constant name for regular track and elrail? 22:48:25 <glx> should not take to much space 22:48:40 <glx> ln-: rail.h I guess 22:48:53 <RichK67> enough.. im really tight on space... i suppose i could expand, but its gonna get too big soon 22:49:00 <ln-> glx: thnx 22:50:49 <glx> RichK67: "random seed" y offset seems wrong 22:51:15 <glx> (screenshot5) 22:51:41 <RichK67> how do you mean? the number is short, because it can be a full width 22:51:46 <RichK67> int 22:52:12 <glx> I mean the space between lines is different for that line 22:53:11 <RichK67> good spot - 2 pixels in it 22:54:18 *** _Red [n=Red@81-86-117-11.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:55:57 *** Jezral [n=projectj@nat.kollegienet.dk] has joined #openttd 22:56:06 *** _Red [n=Red@81-86-117-11.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 22:56:34 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k886.webspeed.dk] has quit ["Go on, get out. Last words are for fools who haven't said enough. - Karl Marx"] 22:58:03 <ln-> is DoConvertRail() the proper, network-safe way to convert the rails in one tile? 22:59:27 *** Spoco [n=Spoco@dsl-062-197-163-65.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has quit [] 22:59:46 <ln-> or should it be CmdConvertRail()? 23:00:07 <KUDr> ln-: i think "DoCommandP()" is what you must call 23:00:16 <KUDr> with proper command 23:00:24 <glx> I agree with KUDr 23:00:51 *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has quit ["leaving"] 23:01:30 <KUDr> CMD_CONVERT_RAIL 23:01:41 <KUDr> as cmd argument 23:01:57 <ln-> ok 23:02:05 <glx> check rail_gui.c:470 23:02:20 <KUDr> look at the GUI for p1 and p2 arguments 23:03:25 <ln-> endtile and starttile can be the same, i assume 23:04:11 <KUDr> usually yes 23:05:07 *** Zbeynex [n=Sean@host81-154-12-107.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 23:07:08 <ln-> openttd: command.c:414: DoCommandP: Assertion `_docommand_recursive == 0' failed. 23:07:36 <KUDr> so you call it from another command 23:07:44 <KUDr> you can't 23:07:44 <ln-> maybe i should have mentioned i'm trying to convert within CmdBuildSingleRail(). 23:08:08 <ln-> what's the proper procedure in that case? 23:08:13 <KUDr> then you don't need network-safe way 23:08:21 <ln-> ok, cool 23:08:31 <KUDr> hopefully 23:08:47 *** Trenskow [n=outlet@85.218.142.227] has quit ["http://iThought.dk/"] 23:08:59 <KUDr> test it in MP then 23:09:29 <glx> in this case just call CmdConvertRail from CmdBuildSingleRail 23:09:39 <KUDr> yes 23:09:58 <KUDr> if all clients will do the same it should work 23:13:01 *** egladil_ [n=egladil@h31n3fls301o1035.telia.com] has joined #openttd 23:13:36 <Frostregen> RichK67: i don't want to bother you, but how long is your todo list, and what place is the copy&paste update? 23:14:07 <RichK67> im not doing any miniin this week... if it in the forum thread, ill get round to it next week 23:14:21 <Frostregen> i know that 23:14:50 <RichK67> then you have your answer ;) 23:15:06 <Frostregen> not the place in the list ;) 23:15:21 <RichK67> no list, no places ;) 23:15:23 <Frostregen> its been on the page for 3 weeks now 23:15:38 <Frostregen> damn ;) 23:15:40 <RichK67> oh! post a new link to it 23:15:52 <RichK67> sorry - i only check back about 2-3 pages 23:15:54 *** coppercore [n=copperco@dpc691919171.direcpc.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:16:01 <RichK67> must have missed it 23:16:19 <Frostregen> i guessed you missed it, thats why i asked about it 2 weeks ago 23:16:29 <Frostregen> ok 23:18:09 <Frostregen> page 27 out of 35 ;) 23:18:30 *** egladil_ibook [n=egladil@h31n3fls301o1035.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:18:38 *** Sionide [n=sphinx@cpc4-hem12-0-0-cust246.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 23:18:38 <RichK67> add a new link on page 35 to the page 27 entry please 23:20:36 *** coppercore [n=copperco@dpc691919171.direcpc.com] has joined #openttd 23:23:36 <ln-> Celestar: ping 23:24:52 *** Morlark [n=Sean@host81-154-12-107.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:26:27 <Frostregen> done 23:31:29 <ln-> am i stupid or can i not start a network game and connect to it from localhost? 23:34:59 <ln-> anyway, i managed to do what i was trying to do. just that i haven't confirmed that it works with network. 23:39:48 *** Jezral [n=projectj@nat.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:45:02 *** KritiK [i=Maxim@ppp15-166.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit ["Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"] 23:53:11 *** Ihmemies [i=ihmemies@a88-113-31-191.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:56:01 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Tschüß"] 23:58:32 <ln-> http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/ottd/rail-elrail-intersection-automagic-conversion.diff 23:58:51 <hylje> oo 23:58:53 <hylje> automagical 23:59:38 <hylje> what it does exactly? allows elrail to connect to conv and vice versa? 23:59:48 <kbrooks> i want to ask a question