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00:00:02 <Roujin> hey that's funny 00:00:19 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-211-146-65.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:00:40 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g226128235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Network is unreachable] 00:00:40 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 00:00:41 *** energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Quit: energetic] 00:00:51 <Roujin> nobody seems to have found that bug since r14827 00:01:23 <glx> what? 00:01:33 <Roujin> ... Quick Goto also works on opponents' vehicles 00:02:14 <Roujin> when I select an opponent's vehicle's order list and < 2 orders are in it, my cursor becomes the "go to" cursor 00:02:36 <Roujin> of course I can't give it any orders (sad, ain't it :P) 00:04:02 <Roujin> credits for finding this bug go to Zuu for building an AI that let a bus without orders drive around :D 00:05:39 <dihedral> lol 00:08:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15202 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Fix (r14827): only make quick goto active for your own company 00:08:33 <dihedral> there is a green edge in the minimap when freeform_edges is enabled 00:08:51 <Rubidium> dihedral: what version? 00:08:57 <dihedral> 15200 00:09:03 <Yexo> then update to 15201 00:09:17 <dihedral> ah 00:09:19 <dihedral> :-) 00:09:20 <dihedral> thanks 00:09:37 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc2-rdng14-0-0-cust631.winn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09:46 <dihedral> freeform is awsome 00:09:48 <dihedral> i must say 00:09:55 <dihedral> it really rocks 00:10:05 <Roujin> Yexo: [quote=Yexo] Thanks for the report GeekToo, but this is not a bug in AdmiralAI. The save function from openttd sometimes trashes the top value of the stack, and that is what happened here. [/quote] 00:10:24 <dihedral> anyway - it's bed time for me now 00:10:27 <dihedral> nights 00:10:30 <Yexo> night dihedral 00:10:31 <Roujin> do you already know where/what to fix about that? 00:10:38 <Yexo> Roujin: I have no idea 00:10:42 <Roujin> argh, that sentence was broken 00:11:10 <Yexo> it's happens once in a while, but I've not found a way to reproduce it 00:11:18 <Roujin> so currently it's safer to turn off autosave when trying out AIs i guess.. ;) 00:11:57 <Yexo> yep 00:12:18 <Yexo> that bug should really be fixed, but I've no idea where to start because it only happens 1 in x times 00:12:31 <Yexo> and the squirrel code is a mess 00:12:51 <Rubidium> start with making the 'error' an exception and then get a stack trace with full info 00:12:58 <Rubidium> i.e. use a debug build 00:13:20 <Rubidium> and then run it on a small map? so it does many autosaves 00:13:33 <Yexo> Rubidium: that doesn't help much, because it can be every kind of error can be caused by it 00:13:44 <Yexo> sometimes it just gives a wrong value, but no crash 00:13:50 *** rtypo2 [~tux@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:14:05 <Rubidium> when it gives a crash you at least have some information 00:14:13 <Yexo> true 00:14:19 <Yexo> I'll try that 00:14:27 <Roujin> one could write a little test AI that tests the values it gets 00:14:33 <Rubidium> but I kinda suspect the opcode limiter might have to do something with that 00:14:58 <glx> possible 00:15:17 <glx> it should be possible to disable the limiter on save 00:15:19 <Yexo> that was TrueBrains suspection too, he thought it was unfixable because of the way the opcode limiter is coded 00:15:24 <Yexo> glx: that is already done 00:15:32 <Roujin> i.e. push "somevalue", check if (pop "somevalue") = "somevalue" 00:16:20 <Roujin> and repeat.. 00:16:39 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:19:54 *** curosurf [~xcvxcv@wonea.demon.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:22:43 *** OwenS [~OwenS@host86-164-125-149.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23:32 <Rubidium> Yexo: I'm suspecting that calling the save function requires that there're no things on the stack 00:23:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: Yexo * r15203 /trunk/src/terraform_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r15190): CmdTerraformLand didn't check it's parameters good enough. 00:24:50 <Rubidium> so basically that the limiter should only stop the execution when 'a new expression' starts, i.e. wherever you've got a ';' in C 00:25:22 <Rubidium> no idea how hard it is to change, but that's my gut feeling about this issue 00:25:29 <Yexo> I'll check that 00:26:26 <Rubidium> my gut says it's time to sleep too ;) 00:27:11 <SmatZ> night Rubidium 00:32:49 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77D20.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:33:09 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77D7A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:36:17 *** einKarl [~einKarl@91-66-180-201-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:38 <el_en> http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/21/230210 00:44:04 <Roujin> well, going to sleep now too, see you 00:44:13 *** Roujin [~chatzilla@mnch-5d85edcb.pool.einsundeins.de] has left #openttd [] 00:46:08 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46:11 <planetmaker> stupid question: what's the c-syntax for c = a xor b 00:46:21 <Aali> ^ 00:46:26 <planetmaker> :) Thx 00:46:29 <SmatZ> :) 00:50:40 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-118-49.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:52:12 *** angelo [angelo@ppp183-212.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [] 00:58:14 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g226128235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Rhabarberbarbarabarbarbarenbartbarbierbierbar] 01:07:30 <planetmaker> hm... is there an easy function to flip the n-th bit of a variable (unlike xor) which conforms to OpenTTD coding style? E.g. wrapping the XOR. Like SetBit(a,n)? 01:07:47 <planetmaker> *like xor 01:08:33 <Aali> implement FlipBit yourself if it doesn't exist :P 01:08:37 <glx> ToggleBit ? 01:09:10 <SmatZ> :-) 01:09:17 <planetmaker> ha, that'll do the trick. I looked for flip etc :) thx glx 01:12:02 <planetmaker> I don't like the drop down selection for the watery edges of the map - and I try to change that to simple yes/no for the sides. 01:13:09 <glx> with checkboxes? 01:13:17 <planetmaker> pushbuttons 01:13:32 <planetmaker> fit better the scheme of that window IMO 01:13:46 <planetmaker> thought of the settings boxes red/green though 01:15:04 <planetmaker> not entirely sure about the best GUI representation. Any thoughts? 01:15:16 <SmatZ> hmm pushbuttons, good idea, too 01:15:41 <SmatZ> actually I hand idea with checkboxes, but pushbuttons are better :) 01:17:31 <planetmaker> :) 01:25:46 *** Pikka [~PikkaBird@CPE-124-187-1-9.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 01:25:56 *** SHRIKEE [~shrikee@84-105-52-118.cable.quicknet.nl] has quit [Quit: SHRIKEE] 01:27:42 *** wollollo [~martin@dyn1076-210.hor.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:30:20 <planetmaker> nearly done. Just some string positions / texts and a bit shifting of buttons :) 01:34:00 * Yexo can't reproduce the problem with AI saving with several test AIs 01:35:15 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:39:49 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 01:47:26 <glx> Yexo: it's a shrodingbug 01:47:50 <Yexo> I've got a possible fix now 01:48:49 <planetmaker> :( why needs everything re-compiling, if I add a single string to one language :( 01:48:52 <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~Yexo/aifix.diff <- that could be it 01:50:05 <Yexo> r15167 is a bit wrong, because this->vm->_suspended != 0 when the save function is called (because that happens during the ai, not while it's suspended 01:50:55 <Yexo> but since I've still no way of reproducing it I have no way to check whether this solves the problem 01:51:31 <glx> I don't fully understand how squirrel stack works 01:54:52 <Yexo> I don't understand it 100% either 01:56:24 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-221-198.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:57:24 <glx> and trying to follow their code requires a lot of aspirin ;) 01:57:36 <SmatZ> hehe 01:57:53 <Yexo> yep :) 01:57:56 <Yexo> or beer :) 01:58:10 <glx> worse with beer :) 01:58:10 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:58:29 <Yexo> but a lot less anoying :) 01:58:37 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 01:59:09 <glx> doesn't help to understand squirrel :) 01:59:32 <Yexo> true :) 01:59:39 <Yexo> anyway, I'll give this fix a go and see if it helps 02:01:22 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: Yexo * r15204 /trunk/src/script/squirrel.cpp: -Fix (r15167): The check was a bit too restrictive, the top of the stack needs to be resetted if another function is called while the AI is running but not suspended. 02:01:26 <SmatZ> resetted? 02:01:52 <glx> in english it's reset :) 02:01:53 <Yexo> bah :( 02:02:02 <welshdragon> there's no such word 02:02:34 * Yexo didn't fix the commit message of 15167 :) 02:03:10 * welshdragon urges Yexo to change it, fior the sake of English sanity 02:03:27 <Yexo> I can't now :) 02:03:32 <Yexo> and 'fior' ? :p 02:03:50 <Yexo> time to sleep 02:03:52 <Yexo> good night all 02:03:53 <SmatZ> I think it is possible, but I don't know how... 02:03:57 <SmatZ> enjoy, Yexo 02:04:06 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@80.247.163.137] has left #openttd [ENGLISH WILL BECOME INSANE, YOU'LL SEE] 02:04:46 <SmatZ> he's Welsh, not English... 02:06:37 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@80.247.163.137] has joined #openttd 02:07:14 <welshdragon> :P 02:07:44 <SmatZ> :-Ь 02:08:36 <welshdragon> :|D 02:09:23 <SmatZ> d-: 02:09:36 <welshdragon> gah 02:09:40 <welshdragon> can't beat that 02:10:49 <SmatZ> :-D 02:14:01 <SmatZ> ÔÐ 02:17:29 *** el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:26:04 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:29:14 *** vraa [~vraa@h101.162.30.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd 02:36:09 *** Zorn [zorn@e177233237.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 02:43:25 *** Zorni [zorn@e177233237.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:45:31 <planetmaker> http://www.openttdcoop.org/files/pm/patches/Bild%201.png <--- any thoughts? 02:45:45 <planetmaker> except that the buttons are yellow and not orange maybe :) 02:46:30 <SmatZ> I think it is very nice :) 02:47:11 <SmatZ> btw, planetmaker, you might know :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_pressure#Calculating_variation_with_altitude can I use this "Equation 1" for heights ~100 000 km? 02:47:24 <SmatZ> I am confused by g0 in the equation 02:47:35 <planetmaker> 100.000km? 02:47:49 <welshdragon> is anybody working on an up to date shared infrastructure patch? 02:47:56 <SmatZ> yes... I know the air pressure is ~0 there ;) 02:48:17 <SmatZ> welshdragon: I think nobody wasn't able to sync it 02:48:37 * welshdragon liked that patch# 02:48:47 <planetmaker> I guess that's where there's no atmosphere anymore but the pressure of the solar wind. That's 15 Earth radii outward - so no. It's the pressure of the solar wind there - depending whether it's sunward or outward 02:48:50 <planetmaker> it differs 02:49:20 <planetmaker> the barometric formula won't work there anymore. It will be higher. 02:49:37 <SmatZ> very interesting 02:50:00 <SmatZ> ok, thank you :-) 02:50:38 <Aali> welshdragon: I have an up to date version of the old shared infrastructure patch, it doesn't apply to clean trunk out of the box though 02:50:43 <planetmaker> you're welcome 02:51:38 * Sacro noms poo 02:51:52 <Belugas> ppoooooowee 02:52:08 <Sacro> disregard that 02:52:11 <welshdragon> Aali, hmm, ok, if youcan emai it o me 02:52:12 <Sacro> my friend sucks cocks 02:52:27 <Belugas> my frienbd cooks socks 02:54:05 * welshdragon slaps Sacro 02:54:20 <welshdragon> hmm, i wonder..... 02:54:22 <Aali> welshdragon: if you can't sync the other one, you won't be able to apply this one, I'm afraid :P 02:54:24 <goodger> my friend docks ducks 02:54:48 <Aali> it applies to latest trunk patched with cargodest and improved timetable management 02:55:03 <welshdragon> which revision? 02:55:21 * welshdragon shall look in the repo's 02:55:35 <Aali> r15204 02:55:43 <Belugas> my OTHER friend mocks pucks 02:56:52 <goodger> a fifth friend clocks trucks 02:57:04 <planetmaker> http://www.openttdcoop.org/files/pm/patches/mapedges_gui_r15201.diff <-- the diff for that change 02:57:19 <Belugas> wouhaa!!! 02:57:28 <planetmaker> hm... I might remove strings... 02:58:18 <Belugas> YAO Friend bugs for bucks 02:59:51 <goodger> friend#7 knocks Tux 03:00:50 <Belugas> mmh... that was an easy one :( 03:00:52 <Belugas> tux... 03:00:57 <Belugas> could be anything anyone 03:01:11 * Belugas shakes fists 03:01:38 <goodger> heh 03:01:54 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:02:01 <Belugas> well... got no more inspiration for the night :) 03:02:37 <welshdragon> hmm, cfompiling,tk :) 03:02:50 <goodger> Belugas: my rhyming dictionary is depleted 03:02:53 <welshdragon> stupid keybard 03:03:03 <Belugas> lol!! 03:03:37 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@80.247.163.137] has left #openttd [failkeyboard, fail] 03:05:30 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 03:07:17 *** Jezral [~projectjj@62.199.79.90] has joined #openttd 03:08:01 *** Zorni [zorn@e177233237.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 03:13:32 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:13:54 *** rtypo [~tux@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has joined #openttd 03:14:03 *** rtypo [~tux@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has quit [] 03:15:37 *** Zorn [zorn@e177233237.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:22:14 <planetmaker> good night folks! 03:38:25 *** RS-SM [~RSCN@216-165-17-148.DYNAPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 03:38:31 <SmatZ> good night, planetmaker 03:40:54 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 03:40:54 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:40:57 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster 03:42:42 *** CIA-2 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:46:54 *** `Fuco`AFK [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has quit [Quit: Quit] 04:01:57 *** Zorn [zorn@e177224189.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 04:06:30 *** slalom77 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04:48:10 *** Jezral is now known as TinoDidriksen 05:13:48 *** fjb [~frank@p5485F61F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:28:12 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577B80FB.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 05:44:03 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 05:44:03 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:44:06 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster 05:53:04 *** DJNekkid [~chatzilla@static128-249.adsl.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:58:44 *** slalom77 [~fgch@p4FE1DBDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:07:20 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 06:37:28 *** goodger_ [~ben@host81-152-233-2.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 06:41:43 <Guest1543> morning ttdler 06:42:10 *** Guest1543 is now known as Ammler 06:43:05 *** goodger [~ben@host81-153-69-104.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:47:17 <dihedral> oi 06:47:55 <Ammler> heya dihedral 06:51:42 <dihedral> hello Ammler :-) 06:51:50 <dihedral> have not seen you in a while 06:53:24 *** worldemar [~world@81.28.174.183] has joined #openttd 06:56:39 *** einKarl [~einKarl@91-66-180-201-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 07:06:41 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 07:07:10 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has quit [Quit: http://www.interplay.com/] 07:08:39 *** einKarl [~einKarl@91-66-180-201-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:10:26 *** RS-SM [~RSCN@216-165-17-148.DYNAPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Quit: RS-SM] 07:13:50 *** George3 [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:14:12 <dihedral> src/3rdparty/ the external for squirrel is set to svn://svn.openttd.org 07:14:38 <dihedral> means that if someone is 'required' to access via http, they cannot fetch squirrel via the externals 07:15:29 <dihedral> however, if i am not mistaken, it is possible to set a path inside the repository 07:15:41 <dihedral> that way it keeps the protocol already set 07:24:42 <dihedral> src/smallmap_gui.cpp:257: warning: '_smallmap_vegetation_andor' defined but not used 07:24:46 <dihedral> Yexo: ^ 07:25:11 <dihedral> 15204 07:27:06 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 07:27:06 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:27:09 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster 07:27:32 <Yexo> dihedral: what has that warning to do with me? 07:29:54 <dihedral> i just thought it had, because you were doing all the map stuff recently :-P 07:30:57 <Yexo> I didn't touch the smallmap gui at all (which let r15201), but otherwise I haven't touched that code 07:31:10 <dihedral> ah, ok 07:31:12 <dihedral> sorry then 07:31:13 <Yexo> now I'm lookint at that code it seems to be _very_ old 07:31:27 <dihedral> ah :-P 07:31:33 <Yexo> are you sure that warning wasn't in earlier versions? 07:31:43 <dihedral> yes 07:32:32 *** vraa_ [~vraa@h151.188.213.151.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 07:33:39 <dihedral> odd 07:33:52 <dihedral> well - never mind ;-) 07:34:22 <Yexo> it was already unused in r10000 07:34:34 <Yexo> probably already since r1500 or even before 07:34:54 <Celestar> \o 07:35:03 <Forked> meep meep 07:35:03 <dihedral> _smallmap_vegetation_andor is not used anywhere in the code 07:35:06 <Forked> sirs and/or ma'ams 07:35:28 <dihedral> oi Forked 07:35:46 <Yexo> I think it should've been used at line 453 07:36:05 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 07:36:06 <Forked> I have a feeling I'll be playing quite alot of ottd this weekend :) 07:36:09 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:36:12 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster 07:36:22 <dihedral> perhaps Rubidium knows... :-P 07:36:26 *** einKarl [~einKarl@91-66-180-201-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 07:36:33 <dihedral> Forked: i will not, i have no time at all this weekend 07:36:42 <dihedral> unless late evening hours 07:36:49 <dihedral> and there i have other stuff to do 07:37:05 <Forked> I'm visiting my parents, there will be some downtime 07:42:14 <Yexo> looks like _smallmap_vegetation_andor is unused since r1 07:44:52 <dihedral> lol 07:45:07 <dihedral> Yexo: that's pretty nasty :-P 07:45:45 <Yexo> I wonder why your compiler started complaing now 07:46:54 <dihedral> i thought warnings were suppressed anyway :-P 08:06:06 <dihedral> [SRC] No such source-file: /Users/nathanael/Development/openttd.svn/src/video/cocoa/wnd_quickdraw.mm.[c|cpp|mm|rc] <- ??? 08:13:28 * dihedral is gonna update his version of xcode 08:16:14 *** einKarl [~einKarl@91-66-180-201-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:16:32 *** Arie^ [~asdfsadf@82-169-69-154.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 08:18:08 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 08:18:08 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:18:11 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster 08:21:14 * dihedral will update his xcode version 08:23:24 *** Arie- [~asdfsadf@82-169-69-154.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:29:46 *** Burgundavia [~corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 08:29:56 <Burgundavia> ok, 32bpp is driving me nuts 08:30:15 <Burgundavia> how do I get it to recognize the graphics I have dropped in there? do I need to remove the old TTD graphics? 08:30:31 <Yexo> did you enable the 32bpp blitter? 08:31:00 <Yexo> and are you not trying to use the exrra-zoom graphics? 08:31:04 <Burgundavia> I am starting with the "-b 32bpp-optimized" 08:31:11 <Burgundavia> and I am not trying to use the extra zoom stuff 08:31:56 <Burgundavia> 0.6.3, official deb on ubuntu 08:32:13 <Yexo> where did you put the graphics? 08:32:30 <Burgundavia> /usr/share/games/openttd/data 08:32:38 <Burgundavia> same as the existing (and working) newgrfs 08:32:44 <Yexo> should be ok 08:32:56 <Gekz> Burgundavia: enable debug 08:33:05 <Gekz> my brain says this would help 08:34:13 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:36:38 <Burgundavia> dbg: [grf] [OPENTTDW.GRF:755] GraphicsNew: Replacing sprites 0 to 47 of Catenary graphics (type 0x05) at SpriteID 0x15B6 08:36:39 <Burgundavia> <-- is this the 32bpp stuff? 08:36:53 <Yexo> don't think so 08:38:25 <Burgundavia> hmm, it appears as if it is working 08:38:44 <Burgundavia> it is only Ben's temperate pack that is not working 08:38:58 <Yexo> where did you download that from? 08:39:35 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:40:13 <Burgundavia> http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/List_of_downloadable_32bpp_tars 08:40:18 <Burgundavia> where is that forum thread again? 08:41:47 <Yexo> Ben's temperate pack works fine here 08:42:05 <Yexo> at least the grass part 08:42:11 <Yexo> rest I didn't check 08:43:13 *** Eff [~d8fba2c9@webuser.thegrebs.com] has joined #openttd 08:43:59 *** Eff [~d8fba2c9@webuser.thegrebs.com] has quit [] 08:46:51 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd 08:53:35 *** Timitry [83dc24f1@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 09:01:02 <Burgundavia> Yexo: thanks, it seems that it was working. Didn't realize jus how little of teh graphics have been replaced if you don;t have extra zoom 09:03:45 <dihedral> why on earth do they have to put xcode into a 999MB sized disc image? 09:03:52 <dihedral> it takes forever!! 09:10:03 <Rubidium> dihedral: be happy it's only 999 MB; for MSVC you need way more 09:10:15 <dihedral> hehe 09:10:21 <dihedral> yes but that is MS for you 09:11:07 <Sacro> mmm, xcode is sexy 09:11:12 <dihedral> Rubidium: [SRC] No such source-file: /Users/nathanael/Development/openttd.svn/src/video/cocoa/wnd_quickdraw.mm.[c|cpp|mm|rc] <- you have a clue what that could be caused by? 09:11:44 <dihedral> it compiled a few times with no probs 09:11:51 *** el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 09:14:01 <Rubidium> why would I know what makes OSX break? 09:14:24 <petern> heh 09:14:25 <dihedral> :-P 09:14:26 <dihedral> good point 09:14:26 <Rubidium> I just see it as one of the other things they intentionally break which Bjarni hasn't worked arund yet 09:14:49 <petern> dihedral, you are on OS X then? 09:14:53 <dihedral> where is Bjarni :-P 09:14:57 <dihedral> yep 09:15:11 <petern> so you could become our new port maintainer! 09:15:32 <petern> Code 663 Windows Update encountered an unknown error. 09:15:34 <petern> FUCK OFF 09:16:03 <Sacro> petern: calm down 09:16:21 <petern> it's that bollocking VS2005 SP1 security update 09:16:24 <Sacro> dihedral: i'm getting a macbook so I can help with Mac dev 09:16:30 <Sacro> heh, 2005 is so last year 09:16:35 <petern> the one i reinstalled vs2005 to install... 09:18:38 <dihedral> HAH! 09:18:38 <dihedral> i would love to help - but currently i dont think i have enough to do that petern ;-) 09:18:38 <dihedral> i.e. knowledge 09:18:38 <dihedral> or rather the lack there of 09:18:38 <dihedral> Rubidium: i did update the move patch to 15204 however, i still have to do the changes you once mentioned to me :-) 09:18:40 <dihedral> Sacro: i have a good old 12" G4 :-) 09:18:40 <dihedral> running Tiger 09:18:42 <dihedral> oh 09:18:42 <dihedral> i need to install some system updates...... 09:18:44 <dihedral> thanks Sacro 09:19:41 <Sacro> dihedral: heh, this is running leopard 09:20:18 <dihedral> the new mac's are way too big 09:22:14 <Sacro> dihedral: macs 09:22:21 <Sacro> no apostophe 09:22:25 <petern> dihedral, too old to learn new things? 09:23:58 <dihedral> nope 09:24:00 <dihedral> :-) 09:24:08 <dihedral> btw: you are using subversion 1.5 right? 09:24:18 <dihedral> could you use the new svn:externals syntax? 09:24:30 <dihedral> that way you can specify relative paths, without the protocol 09:24:31 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:25:11 <dihedral> upside: if someone has to access via http and not svn, they will then still be able to fetch the external 09:25:32 <dihedral> rather than there being a timeout due to the port being blocked when wanting to access svn:// .... 09:26:26 <petern> what about people using older versions? 09:26:34 <petern> "sod them"? hehe 09:26:46 <petern> Subversion command-line client, version 1.4.2. 09:26:50 <petern> is what i'm using... 09:27:36 <planetmaker> [10:03] <dihedral> why on earth do they have to put xcode into a 999MB sized disc image? <--- lool, wtf! 09:31:14 <dihedral> petern: shoot - forgot those :P 09:31:30 <jerker> I added the Braided Junction to the wiki. Flame on! :-) http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Braided_Junction 09:31:34 <dihedral> petern: that also means that when you should commit a merge, you break mergetracking 09:32:31 *** energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 09:32:52 <dihedral> Traffic jams are unlikely since tracks split before they merge. ? 09:33:06 <dihedral> you wont have any deadlocks, but you will have pretty long queues 09:33:57 <dihedral> + the bridge needs not to go up and down again 09:36:06 <jerker> dihedral: deadlocks are unlikely, i guess, should i write deadlocks instead? 09:37:09 <dihedral> i am just saying that it's a good junction if you have like 5 trains passing it every minute 09:38:25 <jerker> dihedral; if the bridge do not go up the tunnel have to move one tile to the east which will make the crossing two tile² larger for the south-east track to fit.. 09:38:42 <dihedral> yes - just saw that with the bridge 09:38:42 <jerker> dihedral: it's optimized for compactness. 09:39:09 <dihedral> no - it's compact - it's not optimized :-P 09:39:46 <jerker> beats the compact 3-way B-M junction with 6 extra tile² usage vs 15 tile². 09:40:47 <jerker> dihedral: it IS optimized :) for a good balance between throughout/latency/compactness see the Transmogrified. 09:40:48 <dihedral> but what do you want from a junction? 09:41:29 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:41:30 <planetmaker> he. Joining and splitting tracks formost ;) 09:42:02 <Rubidium> dihedral: merge tracking's broken anyhow 09:42:13 <dihedral> also a junction i would never use jerker 09:42:32 <dihedral> Rubidium: well, in that case :-P 09:42:34 <jerker> dihedral: :) I like it, but i am very biased. 09:42:42 <dihedral> hehe 09:43:10 <dihedral> to me a junction has to handle a lot of traffic, unless i dont expect that amount of traffic 09:43:31 <dihedral> second is fitting into the landscape 09:43:32 <jerker> it sould actually be interesting with a few examples of priorities and other interesting stuff that I havn't dwelved into yet 09:44:06 <dihedral> those junctions dont leave room for prios 09:44:48 <jerker> No, i mean new/other junctions which are opotimzed for other things. like priorities, or whatever. 09:45:59 <dihedral> well, like i said - if you have 5 trains, and speed does not matter, then it's a possible pick 09:46:00 <jerker> And some good examples on how to make a high capacity mainline with either loops or two tracks in each direction. 09:46:28 <dihedral> junctions for high capacity are very well described at www.openttdcoop.org ;-) 09:47:26 <jerker> dihedral: Yes, some ideas from there could be of very good use. 09:47:37 <dihedral> those junctions can be pretty much crammed full with trains at any given time 09:49:09 *** PhoenixII [ralph@f234251.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 09:50:42 <dihedral> jerker: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Image:SandboxGame35.png 09:51:26 <jerker> dihedral: yes i just looked at it. It will take foverever to build. 09:51:32 <dihedral> http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Image:Psg102_bbh01.png 09:51:35 <jerker> ..to build for me. 09:51:37 <dihedral> they do 09:51:47 <dihedral> and they are unique 09:55:16 <jerker> dihedral: things to optimize for; code size (tile² usage), speed (distance between turns), latency (signal distance), parallelism (capacity under load) 09:55:54 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:57:22 <dihedral> ? 09:57:29 <dihedral> your junctions? 09:57:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15205 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Revert (r7421, partial): Support for MaxTE solves problem in a better way 09:57:44 <dihedral> size, ok they are compact - yes! 09:58:27 <dihedral> distance between turn? not really! they are as compact as they can get, those turns will slow down trains like anything 09:58:34 <planetmaker> @ jerker http://www.openttdcoop.org/files/pm/patches/t-junction.png 09:59:02 <planetmaker> that junction has a speed limit of ~180 km/h for trains while yours has about 90km/h. - which will be more efficient? 09:59:05 <jerker> Belugas; the kind of orders I would like ABC{DEF|GHI}JKL could be implemented im many ways. Random conditional jumping is OK for me (if RANDOM > 50% the jump to order X) but a global counter for all busses could be ok 09:59:10 <dihedral> latency? 7 tiles between signals means you have a lot of space between trains 09:59:29 <jerker> planetmaker: No not mine, i mean in general, as a way of rating junctions... 09:59:35 <dihedral> cpacity under load? that junction will not bring 60 trains a minute! 09:59:51 <planetmaker> indeed 09:59:54 <jerker> dihedral: not mine stupid :) 10:00:02 <jerker> planetmaker: in general. 10:00:31 <jerker> dihedral: and sorry for saying stupid. my wrong 10:00:45 <dihedral> :-P 10:01:10 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet514.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 10:01:36 <planetmaker> jerker: you say that size is the most important feature of junctions. To me a decently flowing network is more important. That's what gives me money. 10:02:16 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 10:02:27 <jerker> planetmaker: I have never said that it is so i general. I have said that that particular junction is optimized for size. As I said there are several metrics for rating junction, obviously. 10:02:40 <planetmaker> yep. 10:02:47 <planetmaker> agreed 10:02:49 <jerker> dihedral: things to optimize for; code size (tile² usage), speed (distance between turns), latency (signal distance), parallelism (capacity under load) (IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER) 10:03:12 <jerker> planetmaker: more...? 10:03:34 * petern mumbles 10:03:39 <jerker> i do like the parallels between computer science and junctions. :) 10:03:39 *** George3 [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 10:04:04 <planetmaker> jerker: readability 10:04:06 <petern> signal spacing should be 2 * train length :p 10:04:24 <planetmaker> e.g. how easy it's to understand :). Or call it coding style :P 10:04:47 <Rubidium> petern: so you're advocating half tile trains? 10:04:48 <jerker> planetmaker: yes, and easy to construct. Write once read many... :) 10:04:58 <planetmaker> important factor is also: trainlength which it is designed for. 10:05:17 <jerker> planetmaker; indeed 10:05:56 <planetmaker> the junction I posted is good for trains <~ 5 tiles. Above that it gets already less efficient 10:06:20 <planetmaker> as trains may block the other way while waiting for a free path. The limit for your compact junction is at <~2 tiles 10:06:40 <jerker> Belugas; actually writing the orders as a regualar expression whould be fine for me as well. 10:08:28 *** sulai [~Miranda@p5B2B4C87.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:09:00 <planetmaker> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2566/getfile/3839/worldgen_gui_r15201_v2.diff <-- I'd like some advice. what's a good place to put the first hunk in order to unduplicate that. 10:09:29 *** el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:09:33 *** PhoenixII [ralph@f234251.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:09:37 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:10:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15206 /trunk/src/network/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#2567]: memory corruption due to not properly cleanup up the mess when cancelling a download 10:10:23 *** PhoenixII [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 10:10:55 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:11:20 <thingwath> it's so funny that openttd rail junctions always look like highway junctions -- and in fact they even work in a same way :) 10:12:51 <blathijs> win 27 10:12:53 <blathijs> w00ps 10:13:17 <Rubidium> sorry blathijs, that version of windows in unknown to me 10:13:38 <Tefad> win42 10:13:48 <blathijs> Rubidium: I downloaded a unreleased preview version from the internets! 10:13:49 <thingwath> win 27, lose everything 10:13:55 <blathijs> But is broken! :-p 10:13:55 <Tefad> weird al wins 10:14:35 <planetmaker> better win 27 than loose 42 :P 10:14:38 <petern> Rubidium, well, there is those small railcar things in ukrs and dbsetxl... 10:15:31 <petern> *are 10:17:03 *** sulai [~Miranda@p5B2B4C87.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:25:02 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:34:03 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:57:47 *** Burgundavia [~corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:59:54 *** Arie^ [~asdfsadf@82-169-69-154.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:02:11 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 11:02:11 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02:20 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster 11:04:02 *** sulai [~Miranda@p5B2B4C87.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:05:05 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has joined #openttd 11:10:49 *** angelo [~angelo@ppp-94-65-200-164.home.otenet.gr] has joined #openttd 11:14:55 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:24:20 *** einKarl [~einKarl@91-66-180-201-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 11:39:46 <petern> hmm 11:39:56 <petern> i wonder what tonnes / 204 was meant to be :o 11:43:43 <petern> 500000*9.81*0.0005 11:43:43 <petern> 2452.5000 11:43:43 <petern> 500*1000/204 11:43:43 <petern> 2450 11:43:46 <petern> oic 11:47:22 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g226128235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 12:02:13 *** davis- [~iloveme@p5B28E0D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:12:54 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 12:21:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.163.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:23:14 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 12:23:14 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:23:17 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster 12:39:17 *** sulai [~Miranda@p5B2B4C87.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 12:49:34 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@62.199.79.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:49:47 *** PhoenixII [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:50:03 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 12:54:44 * dihedral is installing xcode 2.5 12:58:54 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet514.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:03:29 <planetmaker> dihedral: what's the advantages to 2.4? 13:03:46 <dihedral> i dont know - it's the newest i found for Tiger 13:03:57 <planetmaker> k. Just thought you might know :) 13:04:22 <dihedral> nope :-) 13:04:23 <planetmaker> I might check my version :) - and I *think* it's 2.4 13:04:36 <dihedral> perhaps a new version of gcc? 13:04:42 <dihedral> that'd be nice actually :-P 13:12:37 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@62.199.79.90] has joined #openttd 13:14:41 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g226128235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Rhabarberbarbarabarbarbarenbartbarbierbierbar] 13:17:01 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@62.199.79.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:41 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:17:44 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:42:19 *** Mortal [~mortal@217.60.138.68] has joined #openttd 13:51:45 <petern> damn it, i still fail to see what these magic numbers are :/ 14:04:46 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@62.199.79.90] has joined #openttd 14:07:12 <Belugas> coo-coo in here 14:12:03 *** Mortal [~mortal@217.60.138.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:12:22 <Timitry> http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/User:Timitry/3-Way-Junctions 14:12:30 <Timitry> For the junctionary... ;) 14:13:14 *** OwenS [~OwenS@host86-164-125-149.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:16:04 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15207 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Add: sorting to the content list. 14:22:15 <petern> hmm 14:22:18 <petern> ffs 14:23:22 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 14:25:28 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@62.199.79.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:31 <Sacro> fuck me that ttdrussia economy patch is fecking sweet 14:34:40 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15208 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Remove some kind (undocumented, so who really knows) of original attempt to limit maximum tractive effort from 'realistic' acceleration. 14:35:10 *** Timitry [83dc24f1@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 14:41:33 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:41:44 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 14:55:11 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C7F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:58:51 *** divo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 15:00:38 *** snorre [~snorre@cF6FC00C3.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 15:05:39 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:55 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 15:12:42 <Sacro> Can we please reword "Forbid trains and ships to make 90 degree turns" 15:12:45 <Sacro> it sounds horrible 15:12:55 <Sacro> 'from making' is much nicer 15:13:31 <dihedral> sounds like dereck zoolander 15:13:37 <dihedral> he could not turn left :-D 15:13:51 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@62.199.79.90] has joined #openttd 15:14:05 <dihedral> the dereck zoolander center for kids who can't read good, and want to do other things good too 15:14:10 <petern> hmm 15:14:11 <petern> guys 15:14:14 <OwenS> "Disallow trains & ships to make 90 degree turns" 15:14:19 <petern> where should i put the 'choose base graphics' button? 15:14:28 <dihedral> grf window? 15:14:36 <dihedral> or game options 15:14:43 <dihedral> where you can specify the language 15:20:26 <Sacro> grrr 15:20:39 <Sacro> OwenS: no, that's not valid english 15:20:43 <Sacro> or at least it sounds horrible 15:20:57 <Sacro> also, where has the enable signal gui option gone 15:21:48 <petern> i dislike the new gui :/ 15:22:39 <Sacro> fuck it 15:22:42 <Sacro> editing the config is quicker 15:22:48 *** sulai [~Miranda@p5B2B4C87.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:22:49 <petern> ding 15:22:58 <petern> the console needs readline support 15:25:20 <OwenS> "Forbid trains and ships from making 90 degree turns" sounds even worse 15:26:10 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 15:27:31 <Eddi|zuHause> <jerker> I added the Braided Junction to the wiki. Flame on! :-) http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Braided_Junction <- i just read that as "braindead" 15:29:21 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd 15:29:23 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, a more suitable name for that thing if you ask me :-D 15:29:43 <OwenS> The entire junction section on the wiki contains junk :p 15:29:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what "braided" means, even 15:30:00 <dihedral> geflochten 15:30:21 <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, i have never heard that word before 15:30:27 <dihedral> really? 15:30:30 <Sacro> OwenS: really? 15:30:45 <dihedral> you never heard "braids"? 15:30:52 <Eddi|zuHause> no. 15:30:54 <dihedral> wow 15:31:12 <dihedral> that's sad 15:33:24 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aejn99.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 15:35:23 <petern> compact but slow 15:36:02 <petern> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Braid_StepBystep.jpg 15:36:02 <OwenS> Whats with all the slow juncitions in that list anyway? 15:36:05 <petern> ^ braiding 15:38:44 <dihedral> OwenS, it's a wiki! can not anybody delete pages? :-P 15:39:15 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Quit: ecke] 15:39:26 <petern> no 15:41:30 <dihedral> what a pitty 15:41:57 <petern> you could remove content... 15:42:01 <petern> i can remove pages 15:42:10 <petern> but even then they can be restored, i believe 15:43:12 <dihedral> shame 15:43:21 <petern> why? 15:43:27 <dihedral> would be quite nice if it were possible for some of those junctions :-D 15:45:11 <OwenS> Ok Qt,I've created a QListView, and attached it to a model (which has data)... yet you're not displaying it why? 15:54:51 <petern> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/5809/ < hahaha 15:56:31 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i hate KitKat 15:56:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i always try to open them like a Ritter Sport 15:57:28 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 15:58:18 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet514.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 15:58:41 <OwenS> WTF is a Ritter Sport? :p 15:59:45 *** slalom77 [~fgch@p4FE1DBDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:59:48 <dihedral> ^^ 15:59:49 <Vikthor> Chocolate 16:00:54 <dihedral> petern, CS creations are protected by his agent 16:01:06 <dihedral> and they dont sue if there is no money to be had :-P 16:01:33 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: it's a chocolate with a patented way of opening 16:02:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the enclosing wrap opens when you break the chocolate bar in half 16:03:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you can break a KitKat in half, the same way, but it won't open the wrap 16:03:10 <dihedral> and you get 4x2 squares 16:03:22 <dihedral> hehe - have a break! 16:06:09 *** sulai [~Miranda@p5B2B4C87.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 16:06:42 *** HackaLittleBit [~HackaLitt@195-23-22-245.net.novis.pt] has joined #openttd 16:08:35 *** HackaLittleBit [~HackaLitt@195-23-22-245.net.novis.pt] has quit [] 16:08:48 *** HackaLittleBit [~HackaLitt@195-23-22-245.net.novis.pt] has joined #openttd 16:08:54 *** HackaLittleBit [~HackaLitt@195-23-22-245.net.novis.pt] has quit [] 16:09:18 <Eddi|zuHause> HackYourInternetConnectionaLittleBit? 16:09:40 <dihedral> lol 16:09:46 <dihedral> he just did :-P 16:09:46 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 16:09:54 *** Mortal is now known as Guest1729 16:09:54 *** mortal` is now known as mortal 16:11:23 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 16:11:27 *** mortal is now known as Guest1730 16:11:27 *** mortal` is now known as mortal 16:11:59 <petern> dihedral, it was the claims in some of the comments that i found funny 16:12:08 <dihedral> :-) 16:12:09 <petern> anyway, when opengfx is finished... 16:12:17 <dihedral> like the 'abandonware does check' 16:12:24 <dihedral> :-) 16:12:33 * dihedral will carry on using the originals 16:12:45 <Eddi|zuHause> "abandonia.com [...] check legality before they put something up" <- that is really awesome :p 16:13:35 <Eddi|zuHause> next step is "TPB check legality before they put something up" :p 16:14:01 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@62.199.79.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:46 *** Mark_ [~M4rk@5351EC68.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 16:14:47 *** Mark_ [~M4rk@5351EC68.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 16:14:49 *** Mark_ is now known as M4rk 16:15:49 *** M4rk is now known as Mark_ 16:17:06 *** Guest1729 [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:18:52 *** Guest1730 [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:20:59 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5CF8C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:21:38 *** divo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:09 *** angelo [~angelo@ppp-94-65-200-164.home.otenet.gr] has quit [] 16:22:18 <planetmaker> [16:30] <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, i have never heard that word before <-- you should read hofstatter's "and endless golden braid" then ;) 16:23:23 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 16:27:41 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@62.199.79.90] has joined #openttd 16:29:26 *** evandar [~evandar@213.168.176.142] has joined #openttd 16:32:12 <OwenS> Only difference betwen TPB and Abandonia is that Abandonia exists in a grey area :p 16:33:28 <energetic> are there any bugs known with presignals? 16:34:02 <dihedral> not that i know of :-P 16:36:02 <energetic> since I have a savegame where trains persist in violating presignals 16:36:14 <energetic> actually its now online at Kurt server #2 16:36:16 *** el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 16:36:37 <SmatZ> energetic: one could say there is a bug in presignals when you have a "closed loop" of combo-signals, they can be set to red "forever" 16:36:45 <Eddi|zuHause> make a screenshot, and a savegame, and post what you think is wrong 16:36:59 <energetic> at a bug report? 16:37:06 <SmatZ> hehe, yeah, savegame would be great :) 16:37:38 <dihedral> energetic, you are not the owner of those servers are you? 16:37:47 <energetic> no 16:37:53 <energetic> not spamming here :) 16:38:02 <dihedral> no - i wanted to chat to that guy 16:38:19 <dihedral> i just never get hold of him when i do try :-P 16:38:23 <dihedral> and he's never on irc 16:38:38 <energetic> Kurt? 16:38:42 <dihedral> aye 16:38:45 <energetic> well 16:38:49 <energetic> I am admin on his site 16:38:57 <dihedral> perfect :-) 16:39:01 <energetic> so maybe I can answer some questions for you> 16:39:09 <dihedral> you wanna let Kurt know that there is somebody who wants a chat? :-P 16:39:20 <energetic> sure 16:39:39 <dihedral> i am interested in the underlying bot 16:39:49 <energetic> delicate....delicate... 16:40:13 <dihedral> no - i dont want a copy 16:40:48 <dihedral> i just have thoughts, questions, ideas, etc.... and Kurt could be of some good help :-) 16:41:50 <energetic> but keep in mind it is his baby 16:42:06 <dihedral> sure it is 16:42:32 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g226128235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 16:42:37 <energetic> i think it is your lucky day 16:42:47 <dihedral> perfect 16:43:28 *** Kurt [~stefan@p5497A3B7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:44:02 <energetic> -_- 16:45:34 *** Jezral [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 16:45:37 <SmatZ> energetic: which server is it? Kurt's hard goal? 16:45:45 <energetic> yes, but it is already restarted 16:45:55 <energetic> so the savegame is gone. I have it on my hd though 16:46:06 <SmatZ> good :) 16:46:51 <SmatZ> there have been ~2 bug reports about trains ignoring signals, but none with savegame... 16:46:57 <energetic> bug report.... let me see 16:47:11 <energetic> gimme 10 min and i fix a report 16:50:14 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 16:51:58 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@62.199.79.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:53:19 <SmatZ> - if (force <= 0) force = 10000; 16:53:26 <SmatZ> hehe, I really loved that line ;) 16:54:14 <energetic> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2568 16:55:01 <petern> SmatZ, indeed :) 16:55:19 <Aali> so its better to have no force at all than to have <10000? great :P 16:55:27 <energetic> I think it has something to do with the positioning of the exit signals: they are "two sections" 16:55:31 <petern> Aali: follow the code 16:56:11 <SmatZ> energetic: it's a duplicate of... 16:56:21 <petern> force could not ever be <= 0 16:56:31 <Aali> actually, I'd rather just have dinner 16:56:34 <Aali> right, heh 16:56:42 <petern> (only if power or mass was 0) 16:56:49 <OwenS> I once saw a language which took C's +=, -=, *=, etc to the extreme: =< and => were "Assignment less than" and "Assignment greater than"... 16:57:27 <petern> (or if it was going very very fast, in which case no need for an extra 10000) 16:57:39 <petern> OwenS... that's stupid 16:58:21 <OwenS> Caused lots of bugs, yes :p 16:58:27 <energetic> SmatZ: ? 16:59:03 <SmatZ> energetic: I can't find the other FS task... 16:59:30 <SmatZ> the presignals are working fine 16:59:46 <SmatZ> but the train doesn't have that station as its next order 17:00:04 <SmatZ> so it's another case of "PFs don't support dead end bouncing" 17:01:37 <SmatZ> energetic: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1473 17:09:27 *** evandar [~evandar@213.168.176.142] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:14:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.163.195] has joined #openttd 17:15:22 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe4fc.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 17:19:16 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:25:11 *** Kurt [~stefan@p5497A3B7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #openttd [] 17:25:24 <dihedral> energetic, thank you :-) 17:27:29 *** evandar [~evandar@213.168.176.142] has joined #openttd 17:29:05 <petern> hmm 17:29:38 <petern> can someone tell me what "0.035 * mass * speed" is meant to represent? 17:29:57 <petern> 60 * num is meant to be axle friction, i think, but i don't know where the 60 comes from 17:30:09 <petern> results are in lbf (approximately) 17:30:12 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-71fae253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 17:30:23 <petern> area * drag_coeff * speed * speed is obviously airdrag 17:32:58 <Zuu> How do I load the crash.dmg in msvc? If I recall what glx said one should get a file from binaries coresponding to the used nightly. The most relevant file I found is a .pdb file. I have placed it in the same directory as openttd.exe. Opening neither the .pdb-file, the .dmg-file nor the openttd.exe with the standard open dialog of msvc works. Either I am doing something wrongt or the express version of msvc 2005 don't support 17:32:58 <Zuu> getting the call trace... 17:33:48 <Zuu> (my food is on the stove so I will be afk a few minutes) 17:34:11 <glx> if you have exe, pdb corresponding to exe and dmp you just need to open the dmp in msvc 17:34:43 <glx> don't forget to rename the pdb, it should be openttd.pdb 17:34:45 <SmatZ> petern: can it be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_resistance this? 17:36:20 <planetmaker> makes sense. it's in the order of 3% of the weight, considering iron on iron. 17:36:42 <petern> i've looked at that page a lot 17:37:12 <petern> speed is not in the formulas at all 17:38:07 <planetmaker> petern: can you give me the code lines / filename you look at? 17:38:28 <frosch123> according to the units it is a power :) is it also used as such, or needs 0.035 also a unit? 17:38:52 <petern> train_cmd.cpp:495-498 17:38:58 <frosch123> no, wrong, it is not a power :/ 17:39:13 <petern> it's force 17:39:32 <petern> 35 is listed as "friction" 17:39:49 <planetmaker> ty 17:40:20 <petern> resistance *= 4 at the end is a rough conversion from lbf to N, should be 4.4 17:40:52 <SmatZ> constant * mass * speed is momentum 17:41:03 <Eddi|zuHause> just convert the damn thing to metric already 17:41:13 <SmatZ> :-) 17:41:15 <petern> SmatZ, momentum isn't a resistive force 17:41:34 <petern> Eddi|zuHause, ding 17:41:37 <Eddi|zuHause> momentum is an impulse, right? 17:41:38 <SmatZ> it's not, but I was trying to do a unit analysis... so I determined it is a momentum 17:41:43 <SmatZ> according to units... 17:41:47 <planetmaker> SmatZ: there should be no constant... 17:41:59 <planetmaker> ... in SI units. 17:42:15 <SmatZ> planetmaker: hehe :-) we can measure speed in multiplies of speed of light ;) 17:42:30 <SmatZ> planetmaker: there are constants like coefficients of friction 17:42:41 <Eddi|zuHause> wait, your trains don't do 0,2c? 17:42:50 <SmatZ> -i 17:42:55 <SmatZ> :o) 17:43:02 <planetmaker> SmatZ: but not for momentum :) 17:43:08 <petern> to fully use SI you need floats, so ... no 17:43:11 <SmatZ> planetmaker: hehe :-) 17:43:13 <planetmaker> for friction: sure :) 17:43:23 <planetmaker> that's engineering, not physics :P 17:46:38 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aejn99.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 17:50:02 <petern> Celestar! 17:50:06 <petern> Celestar! Celestar! Celestar! 17:52:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Beetlegeuse? (is that spelled this way?) 17:54:28 <planetmaker> if it's the star: no 17:54:55 <petern> beetelgeuse 17:55:08 <planetmaker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beteigeuze 17:55:10 *** slalom77 [~fgch@p4FE1D716.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:55:24 <SmatZ> 8-) 17:55:33 <petern> oh, betel :p 17:56:51 <petern> beetle juice... that was a dodgy film 17:57:45 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: no, i don't mean the star 17:57:53 <planetmaker> :D 17:57:57 <Zuu> glx: Thanks, I now renamed the pdb file. Still got errors when trying to open the dmg file from inside msvs 2005 c++, but I googled a bit and someone suggested double clicking the crash.dmg file. So i double clicked it and that worked. :-) 17:58:32 <glx> oh and you need source from the same rev somewhere :) 17:58:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean this stupid guy whose name you ought to say three times 17:58:55 <Zuu> glx: Yep, though the callstack is there without giving it the source it seams. 17:59:13 <glx> true, but it's often nice to see the code around the calls 17:59:30 <Zuu> yep, that won't work of course. 18:04:32 <dihedral> Yexo, did you not commit freeform map edges? 18:05:43 <Yexo> yes, so? 18:05:52 <Yexo> (haven't read the log yet) 18:06:43 *** Jezral is now known as TinoDidriksen 18:08:16 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 18:09:40 <planetmaker> petern: the term friction * mass * speed / 1000 - I guess it's the engine's internal friction (wheels, etc... which may go linear in speed instead of quadratic as air drag 18:09:56 <Zuu> "Assertion failed at c:\openttd\compile\src\tile_map.h:136: IsValidTile(tile)" again, when scrolling around in the minimap with company-view on autonightly server. 18:10:43 <Zuu> GetTileOwner gets called with a bad tile id (3003928), the map is 1024x1024 which shouldn't give a such high tile id I think. 18:11:07 <glx> Zuu: update :) 18:11:23 *** wollollo [~martin@dyn1076-210.hor.ic.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 18:11:24 <Zuu> glx: It's already fixed? 18:11:26 <glx> you have smallmap open I guess 18:11:33 <Zuu> Yep 18:11:37 <petern> don't need to guess 18:11:53 <Zuu> It is fixed then, I decide :-) 18:11:58 <glx> r15201 18:12:24 <Zuu> next time I should read the changelog before diging up the call stack :-) 18:14:01 <dihedral> Yexo, would it be possible, to make water_borders accept another options 'random' ? 18:14:14 <petern> dihedral: yes please 18:14:22 <petern> i saw the list 18:14:24 <Yexo> sure, it's just a value from 0-15 18:14:33 <Zuu> dihedral: Have you seen planetmakers patch? 18:14:35 <petern> and thought... "what? i don't care" 18:14:38 <dihedral> nope 18:14:40 <dihedral> pm? 18:14:48 <Yexo> FS#2566 18:14:50 <Zuu> pm yes, on the dev-section of the forum. 18:15:00 <planetmaker> :) 18:15:03 <dihedral> @fs 2566 18:15:03 <DorpsGek> dihedral: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2566 18:15:25 <Yexo> planetmaker: there are some coding-style issues with that patch, but I like the functionality ;) 18:15:35 <dihedral> pm: you genious ;-) 18:15:51 <planetmaker> Yexo: I found some... there's at least a super-fluous "SetDirty()"... 18:16:14 <planetmaker> And I'm not happy about the code duplication with tgp.cpp 18:16:17 <dihedral> and also, it would be quite nice if servers quit writing the game seed to the config 18:16:22 <dihedral> why is it there in the first place? 18:16:25 <Yexo> BorderDirections should be moved to some hear file, but you already knew that ;p 18:16:29 <dihedral> makes all games after a server restart the same 18:16:31 <planetmaker> dihedral: re-play 18:16:47 <dihedral> grrrr 18:16:57 <planetmaker> Yexo: any good idea which is most suitable? 18:17:09 <dihedral> anyway - me has to run runns 18:17:10 <dihedral> laters 18:17:13 <planetmaker> cu dih 18:17:24 <Yexo> planetmaker: the order of your widgets is inconsistent, you have NW_TEXT, NE_TEXT, NW, NE, SW_TEXT, .. 18:17:55 <Yexo> either do the four _TEXT first or mix them (NW_TEXT, _NW, NE_TEXT,..) 18:17:58 <planetmaker> right... I initially placed them differently 18:18:14 <planetmaker> first text then buttons looks much neater, I agree. 18:18:39 <planetmaker> Next to it to the right a button "random"? 18:18:49 <Yexo> four times SetWidgetDisabledState <- iirc there is a function that accepts multiple widgets, that way you don't have to duplicate the bools 4 times 18:19:08 <Yexo> not sure where a random button should go 18:19:21 <planetmaker> I would put it right of the Land/Water buttons 18:19:34 <Yexo> SetWidgetLoweredState <- missing a space before BORDER 18:20:05 <Yexo> same for ToggleBit use later 18:20:25 <planetmaker> Oh, I see. Thx for pointing out :) 18:20:43 * planetmaker opens laptop :) 18:20:47 <Yexo> and again, be consistent in the order of the directions, ie you use NW, NE, SE, SW first, but in OnPaint you use NE, NW suddenly 18:21:10 <Yexo> case GLAND_WATER_BORDERS_PULLDOWN <- just removed it, don't comment it out 18:21:34 <planetmaker> oh... that I overlooked... an embarressingly long list :( 18:21:48 <planetmaker> I guess I shouldn't code at 3am... :P 18:22:05 *** rtypo [~tux@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has joined #openttd 18:22:12 <Yexo> it are only small points though :) 18:22:55 <Yexo> could also have said: please comply to the coding style, that would've been a short list :p 18:23:28 <planetmaker> :) I like the long list better :) 18:23:36 * planetmaker hugs Yexo 18:25:31 <Eddi|zuHause> omg... each time you think it can't get any worse... there's always the next knight rider episode... 18:26:33 <Belugas> [13:24] <planetmaker> :) I like the long list better :) <-- should we change the coding style to appeal you more, dear planetmaker ? 18:26:47 <planetmaker> hu? 18:27:02 <planetmaker> That's not what I even remotely tried to imply. 18:27:08 *** worldemar [~world@81.28.174.183] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:27:39 <planetmaker> I rather meant: I that way know better what I did wrong :) - a neat service for me instead of a brief "coding style missmatch" :) 18:27:43 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80302.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:27:46 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 18:28:10 <planetmaker> I have absolutely no issue with the coding style... 18:28:46 <planetmaker> sorry, if I came across as such. 18:35:31 <planetmaker> Yexo: concerning randomization: display the chosen values (e.g. no push button for randomize, rather just like for seed)? 18:35:48 <Yexo> I would do that yes 18:36:12 <planetmaker> shall I integrate it? I mean, it's a seperate feature, but not much work to add here... 18:36:20 <Yexo> just add it 18:36:23 <planetmaker> k 18:36:45 <Zuu> So pushing the random button will make a random selection of which buttons are on/off. If I am reading what you are saying correctly. 18:36:54 <planetmaker> Zuu:yes 18:37:00 <Zuu> That seams like a resonable solution to me. 18:37:50 <planetmaker> it's the easiest and code-wise lightest. 18:38:11 <Zuu> If you really want to have it like suprise to the user, the buttons can just be hidden, but still same solution. 18:38:27 <Zuu> But that is unneccessary complication I would say. 18:38:47 <Aali> what about dedicated servers? 18:39:03 <Aali> will they be able to randomize map borders? 18:39:20 <Yexo> if it's only a gui option, no 18:39:40 <planetmaker> hm... good point actually... 18:39:58 <planetmaker> it's so far also only a gui-only option, afaik, right? 18:40:01 <Yexo> so make random a pushbutton too and disable the other buttons if set 18:40:25 <Yexo> planetmaker: what do you mean? which map borders are water can be set in the config file 18:40:34 <planetmaker> oh, ok :) 18:40:57 <planetmaker> then a pushbutton with disable manual. 18:41:20 *** worldemar [~world@81.28.185.130] has joined #openttd 18:41:52 <slalom77> I found out that my openttd versions stores (important?) information on drive c: in the -own documents- folder, isnt that a problem when i use more than 1 different version of the game ? 18:41:54 <Zuu> I'd say have same text on it when depresed as well as when presed. 18:42:14 <planetmaker> Why? 18:42:20 <planetmaker> I'd make it manual vs. random 18:42:50 <Zuu> As it will probably be depresed by default, and how would one know that pressing the button will give random.. hmm well yes disabling manual could be said to give random. 18:42:59 <Aali> slalom77: if you create a .cfg file in the working dir of ottd, it will use that instead 18:43:04 <planetmaker> and with differing texts it's easier to see what's the case. 18:43:05 <Yexo> slalom77: it's not a problem if you don't mind all versions having the same configuration 18:43:14 <slalom77> @yexo :-) 18:43:19 <slalom77> ty aali 18:43:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r15209 /trunk/src/lang/ (19 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 18:43:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-22 18:42:44 18:43:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 1 fixed by khaloofah (1) 18:43:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: catalan - 20 fixed by arnaullv (20) 18:43:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changed by Excel20 (1) 18:43:21 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 10 fixed by jpx_ (10) 18:43:21 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 1 changed by glx (1) 18:43:52 <Zuu> pm: so go for your original idea 18:44:13 * Yexo can finally reproduce squirrel trashing the stack during save :) 18:44:22 <Zuu> Yexo: Wohoo 18:44:40 <Yexo> now fixing it is another problem... 18:44:51 <Zuu> hehe :-) 18:45:07 <slalom77> and one more question please, my toolbar changed to different icons, for example a bomb instead of the tnt-bone, it seems not to be related with an .grf, how did i activate that ? 18:45:21 <Yexo> yoo are using openfgx 18:45:34 <slalom77> me? 18:45:38 <Belugas> it's ok, planetmaker. I might have wrongly read the converstation too ^_^ happens a lot 18:45:43 <Zuu> At least the toolbar from OpenGFX. 18:45:48 <glx> you downloaded opengfx 18:45:57 <slalom77> there was something with opengfx true 18:45:58 <planetmaker> np, Belugas :) 18:46:07 <slalom77> was that an grf ? 18:46:15 <Yexo> slalom77: yes, you: see http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Graphics_Replacement#Uninstalling_OpenGFX if you don't want it (and the rest of that page for more info) 18:46:57 <Yexo> it's under the category "base graphics" 18:47:28 <slalom77> got it:If you downloaded OpenGFX manually: delete all OpenGFX related files from the OpenTTD data directory: 18:47:31 <slalom77> ty 18:48:12 <slalom77> in a few month i know all optins/addons and can start playing :-) 18:50:06 <slalom77> i found a very intersting mod where city growth depends on delivery of different goods, but its a very old version, did anyone hear about a newer version of this or similar mods ? 18:51:43 *** mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:51:47 <Zuu> slalom77: If you play desert or artic landscape in the original OpenTTD without any newgrfs you will need to deliver certain goods to towns in desert/snowy areas to have them growing. 18:53:25 <slalom77> someone implemented this to the normal landscape, and added a few new indutries, gold, water etc... 18:53:58 <Zuu> And speaking about 'mods' (we don't use that word in the OpenTTD community), there are mainly two types: newgrfs and patches. NewGRFs are graphics files you load into OpenTTD. Patches are source code modifications which require that you recompile OpenTTD. 18:54:15 <Zuu> slalom77: You could try the grfcrawler 18:54:28 <Zuu> http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/ 18:55:36 <slalom77> i know..but i got this as a "mod" from http://www.overclockers.at/games_forum/transport_tycoon_deluxe_141258, below as "OpenTTD Spinoff Beta 2" 18:56:42 <petern> ancient 18:56:43 <slalom77> u mean grfcrawler, the website, didnt find it there already 18:57:05 <Belugas> Spin Off is not a mod, it's a branch, even a fork 18:57:17 <Zuu> slalom77: Then look for "OpenTTD spinoff beta 2" on the forums, though it is quite dead now. 18:57:18 <Belugas> and it's not "u", it's "you" ;) 18:57:51 <Zuu> (forums being tt-forums.net) 18:59:51 <edeca> Hm, does trunk compile on cygwin for anybody else? 19:00:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.208.153] has joined #openttd 19:00:34 <petern> how convenient 19:00:53 <petern> one of my new 'realistic acceleration' equations requires a / 256... 19:00:56 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody ever compiled on cygwin 19:01:01 <edeca> Eddi|zuHause: I did. 19:01:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i was being ironic 19:01:18 <edeca> Eddi|zuHause: I know. 19:01:26 <SmatZ> sarcasm fail 19:01:30 <Zuu> edeca: nightlies are compiled on msvc currently 19:01:41 <Zuu> (the windows nightlies that is) 19:01:54 <edeca> Zuu: Hm, from memory that requires some weird combination of DirectX? I might have a look at the wiki and try again. 19:01:59 <Eddi|zuHause> edeca: possibly, you might get better results by stating the actual problem 19:02:19 <edeca> Fails when linking: /lib/libz.a(gzio.o):gzio.c:(.text+0xd3): undefined reference to `___errno' 19:02:23 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80302.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: icebears... take care of them!] 19:03:06 <Zuu> edeca: Yes you need to read on the wiki page and install the specified direct x versions to be able to use msvc, but reading the wiki is not so hard. :-) 19:03:19 <edeca> Zuu: Nope, that's fine :) 19:04:50 <planetmaker> hm... I've been searching the code now for quite some time, but still not sure. What's the appropriate way to get a 4 bit random number? 19:05:21 <Zuu> planetmaker: There is interactive random which I guess is safe for this application, but more in detail I don't know. 19:05:29 <Yexo> GB(InteractiveRandom(), 0, 4) 19:05:34 <slalom77> im surprised that nobody uses "u" anymore instead of "you" ... for a while it was very usual, no ? 19:05:37 <planetmaker> ty :) 19:05:51 <planetmaker> slalom77: and for non-natives rather tricky to read 19:05:51 <Yexo> slalom77: only on those too lazy to writer proper english 19:05:57 <Yexo> s/on/for/ 19:06:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.163.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:07:50 <Zuu> Also there is a distinct difference between using acronyms such as IIRC etc. than using 'u' for you or '1' for one etc. 19:08:09 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577B80FB.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:13:35 *** evandar [~evandar@213.168.176.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:16:27 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577B80FB.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:17:33 *** slalom77 [~fgch@p4FE1D716.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 19:19:18 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:24:48 *** evandar [~evandar@213.168.176.142] has joined #openttd 19:25:55 *** re06011988 [~wanoo@lns-bzn-61-82-250-78-227.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 19:26:04 *** re06011988 [~wanoo@lns-bzn-61-82-250-78-227.adsl.proxad.net] has left #openttd [] 19:26:24 *** nicfer [~Administr@168.226.105.24] has joined #openttd 19:27:15 <nicfer> one question, is there an aircraft set that combines with the GRVTS? 19:28:59 <Aali> is there an aircraft set that doesn't? 19:29:41 *** Tim-itry [~Tim@p5B37E74B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:29:59 <nicfer> I mean, in 1800 you'll have trains and buses but not aircrafts or ships 19:30:08 <nicfer> trains with the 2cc trainset 19:30:45 <planetmaker> nicfer: do you consider that desirable to have planes prior to ~1900? 19:31:28 <planetmaker> http://www.openttdcoop.org/files/pm/patches/Bild%202.png <-- what about that arrangement of the buttons? 19:31:35 <nicfer> wasn't the game avoiding realism? 19:31:43 <planetmaker> It saves space and makes orientation of the directions clear 19:32:08 <edeca> What benefit does land at the edges give? 19:32:11 <planetmaker> nicfer: no. Nor was it simulating reality 19:32:33 <planetmaker> edeca: nicer scenarios? 19:32:51 <Progman> planetmaker: the randomise button a checkbbox which disable the edge buttons? 19:32:52 <nicfer> I mean, if we're avoiding realism, why not also put planes before 1900? 19:33:09 <planetmaker> Progman: not now. It will just randomize the four edges. 19:33:33 <planetmaker> I'm still not convinced that it shall disable manual configuration of those... 19:33:42 <Progman> indeed, but should be depend on the random seed 19:33:43 <planetmaker> it will need another variable :) 19:33:55 <planetmaker> Progman: that it doesn't either... 19:34:43 <Aali> nicfer: there's nothing to stop you from putting in planes before 1900 19:34:44 *** rtypo [~tux@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:34:44 <edeca> planetmaker: Makes sense. 19:34:59 *** angelo [angelo@ppp117-104.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #openttd 19:35:03 <Aali> that said, its incredibly silly to use the realism or no realism argument to try to get what you want 19:37:35 <edeca> Aali: You mean there might be things in the game that *aren't* realistic? 19:37:38 * edeca sobs 19:37:49 <nicfer> yes, there is: the incapacity of creating newgrfs 19:40:26 <planetmaker> Yexo: is it ok to save the desire to have randomized borders in the same enum as BORDER_NW, ...? 19:40:35 <planetmaker> as an additional enum entry? 19:40:48 <Yexo> not really sure, but do so for now 19:40:55 <planetmaker> k 19:41:22 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:42:17 <Yexo> planetmaker: the strings look like they're a few pixels too high wrt the buttons 19:42:34 <planetmaker> yes. I think that, too. I fixed that meanwhile. 19:42:47 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 19:43:11 <Tim-itry> Heyho :) 19:43:16 *** Tim-itry is now known as Timitry 19:43:35 *** re06011988 [~wanoo@lns-bzn-61-82-250-78-227.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 19:43:43 *** re06011988 [~wanoo@lns-bzn-61-82-250-78-227.adsl.proxad.net] has left #openttd [] 19:44:29 *** nicfer [~Administr@168.226.105.24] has left #openttd [] 19:44:51 <Timitry> Have a look at this: 19:44:51 <Timitry> http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/User:Timitry/3-Way-Junctions 19:44:52 <Timitry> :) 19:47:09 <Yexo> looks like the return value for a DoCommand is stored at the wrong place if a save happens during the docommand 19:47:16 * Yexo is happy to found the cause :) 19:47:22 <Aali> yeah, that page could pretty much replace every other 3-way junction in the wiki 19:47:26 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577B80FB.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:48:17 <Timitry> :) 19:48:33 <Yexo> Timitry: the coop guys would want a "Advanced 3-way junction with doubled briges " where the length over both bridges is equal 19:48:53 <Timitry> Yes, i know, i used to play a lot on their servers :) 19:49:00 <Yexo> but it's a nice summery of the best 3-way junctions on the wiki 19:49:08 *** Phoenix_the_II [rdeboom@g188103.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 19:50:12 <Timitry> But explaining now that like this trains might cause phatom-jams because the ones travelling over the lower bridges will need a little bit longer might be a bit over the top :D 19:50:37 <Yexo> very true :) 19:51:04 <OwenS> Yexo, they wouldn't care since they don't do LR to LR junctions nayway :p 19:51:20 <Timitry> Well, but this applies to any kind of bridge doubling :) 19:51:27 <Timitry> Even if its LLLLL____RRRRRR 19:51:57 <OwenS> If you have 5 lanes per direction, your doing something ridiculous anyway :p 19:52:06 <OwenS> One tile trains? :P 19:52:14 <Timitry> nah, but sometimes only 2 tiles :D 19:52:22 <Timitry> psg #75 was fuuuuuuuuuun 19:52:49 <Aali> psg114? had 5-lane mainline IIRC 19:53:33 <Timitry> Ah no, it was PSG 70 19:53:38 <Timitry> http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/PublicServer:Archive_-_Games_61_-_70 19:54:28 <Timitry> 256x256 map with TL2... My first real game with OpenTTDCoop, i totally loved it :) 19:54:39 <Aali> and the game i was refering to was 115 19:54:52 <OwenS> Some ass flattened my first PSG game in the days before autosaves =( 19:55:03 *** UFO64 [~jmurray@murrayjm8.umeres.maine.edu] has joined #openttd 19:56:03 <OwenS> My first game would be 6.9 in the current numbering (As is, my first game is SB#7 :p) 19:59:42 *** PhoenixII [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 19:59:42 <PhoenixII> :p 20:01:07 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host254-233-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:01:29 <Wolf01> hello 20:02:31 *** Phoenix_the_II [rdeboom@g188103.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:09:56 *** fawlty [angelo@ppp86-91.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #openttd 20:11:18 <petern> hello people 20:12:09 <Yexo> hello petern 20:15:11 <Wolf01> I have a suggestion about the freeform edges, especially the combo box to choose which edges should be water when generating a random map: why not use icons to show the interested edges instead of writings? 20:15:24 <Yexo> Wolf01: planetmaker is working on that 20:15:33 <Wolf01> oh, good :D 20:15:42 *** angelo [angelo@ppp117-104.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:15:42 <Yexo> see http://www.openttdcoop.org/files/pm/patches/Bild%202.png 20:15:54 <planetmaker> :) 20:17:56 <Wolf01> I think it is not possible to use small icons on a combo box, is it? 20:18:07 <planetmaker> Hm.... is there a widget for right aligned text? 20:18:09 <glx> Wolf01: it is 20:18:20 <glx> but buttons are better in this case 20:18:24 *** Darkvater [~tfarago@silver.liacs.nl] has joined #openttd 20:18:27 *** mode/#openttd [+o Darkvater] by ChanServ 20:18:35 <Darkvater> hiya :) 20:18:41 <Wolf01> hello Darkvater 20:18:42 <glx> evening DV 20:18:48 <planetmaker> hello Darkvater 20:18:51 <Darkvater> any luck with freetype glx ? 20:20:44 *** Zealotus [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:23:17 <Wolf01> and what about something like the cells borders of excel? http://www.vancouver.wsu.edu/vis/documentation/workshops/images/xl11.jpg 20:24:05 *** Zealotus [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 20:24:08 <Wolf01> not so complicate, just 4 buttons with a picture in the middle showing if it's water or soil 20:25:05 <petern> one problem i see is "i don't want the whole edge to be land" 20:26:48 <planetmaker> petern: that's not what happens. But it _may_ be land 20:26:48 <Wolf01> yes, that's also a problem I didn't thought about (I only tried a little how the new feature works) 20:27:14 <petern> planetmaker: i know, but it is not clear from the options 20:27:43 <planetmaker> hm... yeah. True 20:28:05 <Aali> perhaps its better to name the options "Water" and "Freeform" 20:28:06 <planetmaker> So... better wording needed :) 20:28:23 <planetmaker> :) probably better idea, Aali 20:28:31 <planetmaker> or arbitrary 20:29:52 <petern> freeform is the word used elsewhere, so 20:30:38 <planetmaker> yup. Changed it. 20:30:53 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: AS A VAGINA ONCE SAID: <yorick> SOMEONE BAN HIM] 20:31:33 <glx> Darkvater: MSVC 2005 fails to link with freetype from MSVC 2008 20:31:44 <glx> 3>libfreetype2.lib(autofit.obj) : fatal error LNK1103: debugging information corrupt; recompile module 20:31:47 <Darkvater> glx: also with __cdecl as in mine? 20:33:15 <glx> yes using __cdecl 20:33:39 <Darkvater> hmm, well I remember msvc2005 support was dropped some time ago no? 20:33:56 <Darkvater> glx: does 2008 link with version of 2005? 20:34:05 <glx> yes that works 20:35:02 <Darkvater> probably 2008 is being magicky 20:35:30 <glx> libfreetype2.lib size is different with 2005 and 2008 20:35:40 <Darkvater> of course 20:35:40 <glx> (smaller by 5KB with 2008) 20:35:43 <Darkvater> different compiler 20:35:50 <glx> for other libs no differences 20:36:00 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@54.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 20:36:13 <Terkhen> good evening people 20:36:21 <Wolf01> hi 20:36:36 <Darkvater> interseting 20:37:09 <petern> bah 20:37:45 <Vikthor> I have run into the issue with BaNaNaS - I would like to upload few Tycoonez grfs of which I am not the author, but I have permission of the author, what shall I do? 20:38:42 <Aali> you shall get the author to do it 20:39:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.192.105] has joined #openttd 20:40:12 <Vikthor> he is not interested to do so, but he does not mind if somebody else does that 20:40:26 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-228-47.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:40:43 <petern> this 75mph train only reaches 68mph :/ 20:40:43 <Aali> then you will have to wait until the rules change 20:41:54 <planetmaker> Vikthor: that's the CSD sets or grfs from there? 20:42:39 <Vikthor> Well so far I have only minimes agreement, so only Czech Town names, unifont and others 20:43:42 <planetmaker> right :) 20:44:04 <planetmaker> Best would indeed be, if you could talk him into uploading it himself. 20:45:31 *** Darkvater [~tfarago@silver.liacs.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:46:13 <Vikthor> Sure, but that's probably not going to happen, at least not very soon, he is quite busy with migration of our forums to new machine and of course Real life 20:46:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.208.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:47:07 <planetmaker> yeah... as usual :S 20:47:17 <Vikthor> The idea was I will handle the bananas stuff for him and probably others 20:47:35 <planetmaker> are you co-author? 20:47:46 <Wolf01> gah... I have 2 scenarios unloadable because they have grfs... there's a way to clean all the grfs from a scenario (maybe keep the terrain only)? 20:47:47 <petern> you could pretend to be him and say no more ;) 20:48:19 <Vikthor> petern: Good solution, but it came too late :) 20:48:51 <Yexo> imo if you have the authors permission to upload it you should be able to 20:48:54 <petern> or: ask him to create an account and, er,yeah 20:49:05 <planetmaker> hm, where do I find all those widget templates? I just don't find it... 20:49:12 <planetmaker> I need right aligned strings... 20:49:54 <Yexo> planetmaker: window_gui.h 20:50:00 <Yexo> but there are no right-alligned strings I think 20:50:59 <Vikthor> Yexo: Well, that's what I thought, but the Agreement when registering for manager says otherwise 20:51:26 <Yexo> I know, but I'm not the one who can change it 20:51:39 <Vikthor> That's TrueBrain, right? 20:51:45 <Yexo> or Rubidium 20:52:49 <Yexo> but I doubt it'll be changed, as that makes checking if uploaded things are really uploaded by their author nearly impossible 20:53:13 *** fjb [~frank@p5485FEF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:53:21 <Vikthor> hmm I see 20:53:58 <Rubidium> we don't want to get into fights with authors because "someone" uploaded their stuff to the content system 20:54:00 <fjb> Hello 20:54:23 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-118-49.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 20:54:48 <Rubidium> so only when you are author of the content you may upload it. That way the author knows exactly where he is getting into instead of hearing some stories from someone without knowing the fine details 20:56:14 <planetmaker> otherwise I could upload 80% of the #openttdcoop grfpack :) 20:57:19 *** jpm_ [pekka@kone.suomen4g.fi] has joined #openttd 20:58:40 <planetmaker> you may remember me asking you and the tycoonez people about automatic download, Vikthor :) 20:59:14 <Aali> hmm 20:59:29 <Wolf01> 'night 20:59:34 <Vikthor> planetmaker: I do, IIRC we settled on that that the licence Tycoonez uses is OK for that purpose, right? 20:59:35 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host254-233-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:59:46 <planetmaker> iirc, yes. 20:59:53 <planetmaker> except the train set itself 21:00:01 <Aali> the multiple authors system (assuming that will be implemented) should include an easy way for people to make someone co-author just for the purpose of uploading their stuff 21:00:30 <Aali> so the author still has to visit the site, read the terms etc, but doesn't have to deal with the actual uploading process 21:01:11 <Vikthor> Aali: Ahh right, so if I tell them to write me down as, say "Release Manager", everything will be all-right? 21:01:27 <Eddi|zuHause> "author" can only be someone who holds the copyright 21:01:33 <Aali> there is no multiple authors system yet, so no :P 21:01:35 <Eddi|zuHause> what you want is a designated "maintainer" 21:02:31 <Aali> Eddi|zuHause: this isn't a court of law, I don't care about the proper legal terms, you know what I meant etc :P 21:03:25 *** jpm [pekka@kone.suomen4g.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:05:37 <planetmaker> Hm... there's DrawStringRightAligned(x_right,y,string,TC_FROMSTRING,width) ... 21:05:46 <planetmaker> I wonder whether it will do. 21:06:22 <planetmaker> it's no widget, though... no. I'll leave it then. 21:08:07 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 21:09:05 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@80.247.163.137] has joined #openttd 21:09:17 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc2-rdng14-0-0-cust631.winn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 21:11:42 *** Pieman191 [~chatzilla@pool-98-114-150-179.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 21:12:15 <Pieman191> hey all 21:12:22 <Yexo> hello Pieman191 21:15:31 <Pieman191> any tips while playing an online match? 21:15:49 <planetmaker> have fun :) 21:16:13 <planetmaker> and in case of doubt play on a server where you like the rules 21:16:44 <Belugas> or one where you can blackmail the admin to gain advantages 21:16:56 <Pieman191> lol 21:16:59 <planetmaker> those are the best :) 21:17:16 <planetmaker> you know... sometimes it's advantages to be an admin :D 21:17:26 *** Timitry [~Tim@p5B37E74B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:59 <Pieman191> I mean, how to make money fast 21:18:22 <Yexo> exactly the same as in singleplayer :p 21:18:50 <Yexo> try building a few planes, or if that's not possible a coal train line 21:19:20 <fjb> And feed the planes with bus networks in the towns. 21:19:50 <Pieman191> I only get 100k starting money in online 21:20:02 <Pieman191> so the coal train sounds like a good idea 21:20:03 <Yexo> that changes from server to server 21:20:17 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe4fc.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:39 <planetmaker> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2566/getfile/3850/worldgen_gui_r15201_v3.diff <-- new version @ Yexo 21:27:07 <Yexo> I'll have a look 21:27:25 <Belugas> i'll have a book 21:27:34 <Belugas> i'll have a cook 21:27:43 <Belugas> i'll have a duck 21:27:50 <Belugas> i'll have a *uck 21:27:56 <planetmaker> I wish you luck :) 21:27:57 <Belugas> i'll have a hook 21:28:11 <Belugas> i'll have a muck 21:28:18 <Belugas> i'll have a knock 21:28:19 <planetmaker> nooo. Not f... 21:28:29 <planetmaker> think of the children :D 21:28:34 <Belugas> thus the star ;) 21:28:40 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody said anything with "f" :p 21:28:47 <planetmaker> pffft. 21:28:50 <planetmaker> ;) 21:29:06 <Yexo> planetmaker: can you use SetWidgetsDisabledState instead of 5 times SetWidgetDisabledState ? 21:29:13 <Eddi|zuHause> you are leaking air 21:29:38 <planetmaker> Yexo: I tried to combine it, but I didn't figure how... 21:30:05 <Yexo> this->SetWidgetsDisabledState(bool, widget1, widget2, ..., WIDGET_LIST_END); 21:30:19 <Pieman191> Anyway to stop these annoying "game connection lost" errors? 21:30:27 <Belugas> [16:28] <@Belugas> i'll have a *uck <---i did!!! 21:30:31 <Yexo> yes, fix your internet connection 21:30:37 <Belugas> ibut i put on the censure flag :) 21:30:59 <Pieman191> I have verizon 21:31:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: is that like automatically replacing your password? 21:31:28 <Eddi|zuHause> like this: ******** 21:31:48 <Pieman191> this is the only game I get disconnected alot in 21:33:08 <petern> who what 21:33:27 <planetmaker> doh... I didn't see the "s" in SetWidgetSDisabledState... - that's why 21:33:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: glx * r15210 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Fix: Vehicle::GetRunningCost() was wrong for ships and aircraft 21:33:58 <petern> :o 21:34:35 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: from __future__ import antigravity] 21:35:21 <petern> GetPriceByIndex should be used 21:35:37 <petern> not _price.aircraft_running 21:35:43 <Yexo> planetmaker: why the BORDER_RANDOM bit? 21:35:46 <glx> I just moved the code 21:36:07 <planetmaker> Yexo: to store the desire to have random borders. 21:36:18 <Yexo> but you never use that except in the gui code 21:36:18 <petern> not quite 21:36:21 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:21 <planetmaker> And it could - at the same time - possibly be re-used in the config file 21:36:27 <planetmaker> yes. Not yet. 21:36:32 <planetmaker> But it's possible to extend that 21:36:37 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 21:36:52 <Yexo> if you do that, don't make it a bit but a special value (16), so you either store random or a bitset of the borders 21:37:12 <planetmaker> Borders is a bitset now anyway. 4 bits are used. 21:37:24 <planetmaker> I thought the highest bit might be a good choice to indicate ranomness. 21:37:28 <petern> hm 21:37:31 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: how about, instead of a pressed/unpressed button, which is totally counter intuitive, why not have a button that cycles through the options? (water, land, random)? 21:37:48 <Yexo> planetmaker: it's not, because that breaks the save/load code (the value is capped to 0-15) 21:38:11 <planetmaker> ok... so I make it a local var then. 21:38:24 <Yexo> why does it need to be a var at all? 21:38:33 <Yexo> just have a button to randomize the choices 21:38:54 <Yexo> I know, that doesn't give the option for servers 21:39:19 <Yexo> if you want that, then use the value 16 as special value for random, and move the GB(InteractiveRandom(), 0, BORDER_MAX - BORDER_MIN + 1) to tgp.cpp 21:39:24 <planetmaker> then without disabling the other 4 widgets? 21:39:51 <Yexo> no, you either have random or you set them manually 21:39:53 <Yexo> not both 21:39:58 <Eddi|zuHause> what people might also wonder is what exactly does that "randomize" button affect? borders? roughness, etc? the random seed? [which already has a randomize button] 21:40:06 <planetmaker> Yexo: might be interesting for dedicated servers to have them random edges. 21:40:14 <planetmaker> generated 21:40:19 <Yexo> I know 21:40:33 <Yexo> ok if I modify your patch a bit? 21:40:41 <planetmaker> Sure. 21:42:24 <planetmaker> To me the most intuitive way to use a randomize button would be to set random values to the 4 borders, but not disable the possibility to edit it again (like my patch does now) 21:42:46 *** evandar [~evandar@213.168.176.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:45:04 <Zuu> Maybe even do the randomization based on the seed, so there is only one random button. hmmm 21:45:21 <Yexo> planetmaker: I'll make sure it works that way :) 21:45:27 <planetmaker> yeah, thought about that but got no good idea how to implement that. 21:45:42 <planetmaker> Yexo: he... I understood you that you wanted the way I implemented it :) 21:45:49 <planetmaker> but nvm :) 21:45:52 <planetmaker> shit happens. 21:45:58 <Yexo> planetmaker: approximatly 21:46:24 <planetmaker> the better is the good one's enemy ;) 21:46:34 <planetmaker> brb (15 minutes or so) 21:47:51 <Zuu> planetmaker: Read 4 bits from the seed and use those as states for the four buttons? Like the least or most significant bits or some in the middle. 21:48:03 <planetmaker> good idea 21:48:31 <Yexo> that means that clicking the randomize button changes the state of the buttons for water edges 21:48:42 <Yexo> that might be kind of unexpected, seeing it doesn't change any other values 21:48:50 <Zuu> Not sure exactly how one would do it, but should be possible. One have to make sure it works the same on endianes. 21:49:03 <Zuu> both endianes* 21:49:41 <Zuu> Yexo: Hmm, yes that is true. Only things that happen after you press generate are affected by the seed. 21:50:02 <Rubidium> Zuu: endianness isn't something to worry about 21:50:19 <Rubidium> except when you start writing stuff to somewhere outside OpenTTD 21:50:30 <Rubidium> (network, disk, screen) 21:50:31 <planetmaker> Yexo: solution: don't show the random values with the buttons, but only hand over them, when generate is pressed. 21:50:45 <Yexo> planetmaker: wait 5 mins and you'll see my solution 21:50:52 <planetmaker> k. 21:51:01 *** evandar [~evandar@213.168.176.142] has joined #openttd 21:51:07 <Zuu> But then why should only water border have a random button, but not all other stuff in the dialog.. hehe many questions.. 21:51:41 <planetmaker> because it's part of the map. 21:51:57 <planetmaker> actually I would just kick the "freeform edge setting" and leave it always on :D 21:53:33 <Aali> I have no issue with it being a simple on/off setting 21:54:40 <Aali> that would make things so much easier 21:55:56 <Zuu> Also a user don't have that much use of a random button. The main use for random would be servers, but those are excluded currently. 21:56:01 *** fawlty is now known as angelo 21:56:11 * Zuu is good on argumenting for both sides :-p 21:57:43 *** UFO64 [~jmurray@murrayjm8.umeres.maine.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:57:56 <Zuu> At TE we had a weekly discussion topic that we had extra focus on everey week :-D (Transport Empire for those who was not there 4 years ago) 22:02:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r15211 /trunk/src/saveload/oldloader.cpp: -Fix (r15190): loading of TTD savegames was broken 22:02:41 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Changing PC.] 22:04:19 *** RS-SM [~RSCN@216-165-16-34.DYNAPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 22:05:58 <Yexo> planetmaker: http://devs.openttd.org/~Yexo/worldgen_gui.diff <- language changes left out 22:07:09 <Yexo> servers can set game_create.water_borders to 16 to get random water borders 22:07:17 * planetmaker looks 22:07:54 <planetmaker> nice. 22:08:01 <planetmaker> that's important, too IMO 22:08:26 <Yexo> there is no way to set value 16 from the gui, but that's not needed either 22:08:38 <planetmaker> not really. 22:08:39 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 22:10:49 <Rubidium> what about CTRL-click random setting the value to 16? 22:10:59 <dihedral> pritties 22:11:01 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5CF8C.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:11:25 <fjb> Hm, how do I begin and end a business letter in English? 22:11:27 * petern sniggers 22:11:32 <planetmaker> Rubidium: if you can set a random thing anyway, why have a 2nd way? 22:11:43 <Rubidium> you begin the letter with an address ;) 22:11:55 <fjb> :-P :-) 22:11:59 <planetmaker> only gain is: you don't know what borders will be what ;) 22:12:11 <Yexo> Rubidium: how do display that in the gui? disable the buttons? 22:12:24 <Yexo> why does the gui need a random value at all (except for randomizing current choices) 22:12:25 <fjb> I mean after the address. 22:12:36 *** Pieman191 [~chatzilla@pool-98-114-150-179.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]] 22:12:38 <RS-SM> sup all 22:12:41 <Rubidium> fjb: have you tried googling it? 22:12:44 <RS-SM> and the letter 22:12:46 <RS-SM> It is easy 22:12:49 <Zuu> fjb: Hi name, <new line><body> Best regards, <new line>fjb 22:12:50 * RS-SM put your address 22:12:58 <RS-SM> then you put greeting 22:13:02 <RS-SM> then you put message 22:13:06 <RS-SM> then you put thank you 22:13:08 <RS-SM> then you put name 22:13:17 <Zuu> But a comma after the name is what they use in English. 22:13:21 <fjb> Google gives many different results. Is "Hi" usual in a business letter? 22:13:30 <RS-SM> nope 22:13:31 <Zuu> (Swedes prefere an exclamation mark after the name) 22:13:38 <RS-SM> use formal terms 22:13:42 <RS-SM> Europeans are odd 22:13:52 <fjb> What are the proper formal terms? 22:14:36 <fjb> We are using a "," in Germany. :-) 22:14:43 * planetmaker 's laptop still compiles... 22:14:55 * Zuu taps on planetmaker's laptop 22:14:59 <Yexo> planetmaker: you want the version with the language changes? 22:15:02 <dihedral> While we are at the random stuff for map creation.... 22:15:10 <Yexo> there are a bit more (you should svn up) 22:15:19 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:15:23 <planetmaker> Yexo: I don't need other languages. But keeping the old strings there gave compile warnings. 22:15:29 <dihedral> can there be a setting for the generation seed, that marks 'random' and tells the game to not overwrite that value when saving the config again? 22:15:34 <planetmaker> I pulled latest trunk 22:16:02 <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~Yexo/worldgen_gui_lang.diff <- with changes to language files 22:16:03 <Aali> ctrl-click could depress the random button, deactivate the manual settings and set the config value to 16 22:16:21 <planetmaker> oh, wait. english.txt isn't changed in your patch either. 22:16:27 <Yexo> forgot that one 22:16:34 <planetmaker> compile failure :) 22:16:37 <Yexo> but I didn't change anything compared to your patch 22:16:49 <Yexo> and I think STR_SET_BORDERS_MANUALLY can be removed now 22:16:58 <petern> mov ebx,683,,...// 2.669*256 22:17:02 <petern> ^ snigger 22:17:12 <SmatZ> petern: what are you doing? 22:17:23 <petern> SmatZ: still comparing acceleration models 22:17:27 <Rubidium> SmatZ: what he has been doing for the last few weeks ;) 22:17:29 <petern> someone's done a goodger_ there 22:17:54 <fjb> RS-SM: What is the proper greeting nowadays? 22:17:55 <SmatZ> petern: Rubidium: thanks :-) 22:18:00 <Rubidium> why, cause 683 is in hex? 22:18:10 <Zuu> Night guys, better be fresh tomorrow.. logistics lecture tomorrow - with "beer game" :-) 22:18:16 <petern> or, perhaps, i have :o 22:18:18 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-71fae253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:18:50 <petern> well 22:19:03 *** einKarl [~einKarl@91-66-180-201-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:19 <petern> when i use ttdpatch's model, it doesn't work :/ 22:19:33 <RS-SM> hmm 22:19:35 <RS-SM> sorry 22:19:43 <RS-SM> It is either Greeting, or Hello 22:19:59 <Rubidium> fjb: Moin? 22:20:08 <planetmaker> Moin :) 22:20:19 <fjb> Rubidium: I love you. :-P 22:20:20 <planetmaker> g'night Zuu 22:20:26 <fjb> RS-SM: Thank you. 22:20:29 <Rubidium> ieuw 22:20:42 <RS-SM> sin problemas 22:23:08 *** UFO64 [~jmurray@alisha-rechholtz.um.maine.edu] has joined #openttd 22:25:26 <planetmaker> he... I nearly had that behaviour of the worldgen gui after half the time :) 22:27:05 <planetmaker> except that the random button switched between pressed and not pressed 22:28:15 <planetmaker> Yexo: :) so it's cool with you? 22:28:24 <Yexo> yep :) 22:28:32 <Yexo> I like this a lot better than the dropdown box 22:28:44 <planetmaker> :) I guess you're not alone ;) 22:29:10 <Yexo> SmatZ already suggested button before, but I didn't found a nice way to implement them in the gui 22:29:53 <Yexo> last patch I uploaded was ok? 22:32:02 <planetmaker> http://www.openttdcoop.org/files/pm/patches/worldgen_gui_r15211.diff <-- this is with the language modifications. 22:32:08 <planetmaker> I needed to add them 22:32:24 <planetmaker> it now has the other languages again... 22:32:40 <Yexo> but no other changes? 22:32:50 <planetmaker> I didn't change other things, no 22:33:56 <planetmaker> I didn't test the server function yet, though 22:36:26 <planetmaker> because well... doesn't work on this machine :S 22:36:32 <planetmaker> bind fails... 22:38:43 <planetmaker> but alas, that's my LAN :) 22:40:45 <SmatZ> Yexo: planetmaker: maybe those buttons are too near to each other, what do you think? 22:40:52 <Yexo> SmatZ: working on that 22:41:09 <planetmaker> SmatZ: I actually placed them that close on purpose - for two reasons. 22:41:15 <fjb> If bind doesn't work use Pattex. 22:41:25 <planetmaker> a) it represents the map with its 4 quadrants 22:41:29 <SmatZ> are you sure "Freeform" is appropriate? I think "Land/Water" is better... 22:41:31 <planetmaker> b) it's the available space 22:41:37 <planetmaker> hehe 22:41:43 <SmatZ> because you can always freeform water adges 22:41:49 <planetmaker> SmatZ: talk with petern - and the feature is called such 22:41:52 <Rubidium> c) it gives translators a challenge 22:42:16 <planetmaker> That will be done anyway :) 22:42:18 <Yexo> SmatZ: non-water edges are not 100% land (they may even be mostly water) 22:42:27 <SmatZ> and similiar, when you level the map, all edges will be flooded 22:42:47 <SmatZ> translation of "water/land" is easy ; translation of "freeform" isn't 22:42:55 <planetmaker> SmatZ: only water edge ensures 100% water. The other setting allows anything from 100% land to 100% water 22:43:13 <planetmaker> "Anything" was something I considered. 22:43:15 <SmatZ> Yexo: still I think "land" is better... 22:43:31 <planetmaker> "Random" another or maybe "Arbitrary" 22:43:51 <planetmaker> SmatZ: take much water and it will be 90% water despite. 22:43:57 <planetmaker> Quite confusing, if you ask me 22:43:57 * SmatZ would stick with "pevnina (land)" in translations anyway 22:44:36 <Yexo> planetmaker: I tend to agree with SmatZ, as a lot of the rest of the map is water in that case too 22:45:03 <SmatZ> maybe then let people choose "which edges have to be water" or so... but I think it's too complicated :) 22:45:22 <planetmaker> loool :) I think you should take my 2nd version of the patch, Yexo :) 22:46:01 <SmatZ> [23:42:21] <Rubidium> c) it gives translators a challenge <== it is a "pro" or "con"? :-P 22:46:06 <planetmaker> That's why I would distinguish between "water" and "arbitrary" 22:52:53 *** davis- [~iloveme@p5B28E0D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:21 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C7F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:18 <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~Yexo/worldgen_gui.png <- what do you think? 22:58:01 <Rubidium> that looks way better 22:59:10 <Aali> and what happens if you click the randomise button? 22:59:12 *** murr4y [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:19 *** murr4y [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::42] has joined #openttd 22:59:24 <Yexo> Aali: the buttons are set in a random state 22:59:43 <petern> text alignment is wrong 23:00:00 <Yexo> it looks wrong indeed 23:00:10 <Yexo> it's the same as for the labels above though 23:00:20 <Aali> :/ 23:00:30 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.192.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:00:58 <planetmaker> Yexo: the text looks better, if you missalign by two pixels. 23:00:59 <petern> not all 23:01:03 <Aali> random map borders should be part of the generating process, not a GUI thing IMO 23:01:14 <petern> "smoothness:" is also misaligned 23:01:28 <planetmaker> Aali: but you should have the ability to choose which borders are water. That's a good thing 23:01:43 <planetmaker> Especially, if you design scenarios. 23:01:57 <Yexo> petern: you're right 23:02:00 <Aali> of course 23:02:07 <planetmaker> petern: but they're at the same y-offset 23:02:17 <Yexo> the other texts are 1 px lower then the buttons,but the smoothness text is 1px higher instead 23:02:20 <planetmaker> as the buttons they *should* be aligned with 23:02:35 <planetmaker> he 23:02:35 <Aali> but it would be nice if the random button just disabled the manual part and set the config variable 23:02:50 <planetmaker> Aali: that it does. 23:03:07 <planetmaker> But you can change the randomized value by hand again. Nothing wrong with that 23:03:13 <Yexo> planetmaker: it doesn't 23:03:20 <planetmaker> Yexo: hm? 23:03:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.192.105] has joined #openttd 23:03:34 <Aali> yeah, you can't do that 23:03:35 <Yexo> the random button just sets it to a random value, not to RANDOM 23:03:44 <petern> don't do that 23:03:52 <planetmaker> randomize randomizes the values - Yes. but effectively the same 23:04:03 *** UFO64 [~jmurray@alisha-rechholtz.um.maine.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:04:07 <Yexo> petern: ? 23:04:13 <Aali> planetmaker: not the same 23:04:21 <petern> dedicated server, for instance 23:04:28 <petern> you need a value for random 23:04:33 <Aali> next time you generate a map, you'll get the same "random" unless you change it 23:04:33 <Yexo> petern: they have 23:04:34 <planetmaker> petern: that's done 23:04:41 <Aali> which isn't very nice 23:04:43 <Yexo> it's just not possible to set that via the gui 23:04:47 <petern> hmm 23:05:23 <petern> personally i think it's creeping into having far too many options :/ 23:06:10 <planetmaker> well. a server needs a random map border while a human not necessarily does. 23:06:57 <planetmaker> Aali: the manual borders are also saved. So you'll re-create it. 23:07:06 <planetmaker> it's the same variable. 23:07:09 <Aali> and that's bad 23:07:25 <planetmaker> I don't get you 23:07:41 <Aali> I want to be able to set the config to RANDOM from the GUI, that's all 23:07:53 <planetmaker> why? 23:08:20 <Yexo> for one because then you can use restart and get different water edges 23:08:41 <planetmaker> which I consider rather a bug. 23:08:48 <planetmaker> if I don't change anything 23:08:55 <Yexo> hmm, not restart but newgame of course :) 23:09:55 <planetmaker> well... but that's mostly for dedicated servers. But alas. connecting the randomize button ther doesn't hurt 23:11:28 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@g226136158.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 23:12:08 <planetmaker> Yexo: then make "randomize map edges" a pushtxtbutton which - again - disables the manual thingy and then sets it to BORDER_RANDOM 23:12:23 <Yexo> planetmaker: doing exactly that :p 23:12:29 <planetmaker> :P 23:15:51 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@54.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [] 23:19:01 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g226128235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:19:01 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 23:24:53 *** murr4y [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:44 <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~Yexo/worldgen_gui.png <- everyone happy now? :p 23:26:18 <Yexo> labels still need to be lowered 1px 23:26:23 <Rubidium> there'll always be someone unhappy ;) 23:27:10 *** RS-SM [~RSCN@216-165-16-34.DYNAPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Quit: RS-SM] 23:30:39 <planetmaker> I'll be happy :) 23:30:47 <planetmaker> Makes life so much more pleasant :) 23:31:39 <SmatZ> Yexo: I think it should be "Manual", not "Manually" 23:32:39 <Yexo> SmatZ: changed 23:32:44 <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~Yexo/worldgen_gui_lang.diff <- latest patch 23:32:45 *** OwenS [~OwenS@host86-164-125-149.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:39 *** evandar [~evandar@213.168.176.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:37:33 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:38:12 *** wollollo [~martin@dyn1076-210.hor.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:39:21 <planetmaker> :) 23:39:31 <planetmaker> fine for me 23:39:53 <Yexo> Rubidium / SmatZ: any comments? 23:40:43 * SmatZ applies the patch 23:49:16 *** GoneWacko [~GoneWacko@dhcp-077-249-197-241.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:51:02 *** RS-SM [~RSCN@216-165-16-34.DYNAPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 23:51:31 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-211-146-65.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:51:59 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:52:40 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 23:52:49 <Yexo> hello Nite_Owl 23:53:04 <Nite_Owl> Hello Yexo 23:53:10 *** vraa [~vraa@h6.190.213.151.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd 23:56:22 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g226136158.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Rhabarberbarbarabarbarbarenbartbarbierbierbar] 23:56:25 *** GoneWacko [~GoneWacko@dhcp-077-249-197-241.chello.nl] has joined #openttd