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00:00:09 *** thingwath [~thingwath@r2ap232.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 00:00:47 <TrueBrain> either way, if you have any specific questions, we might be able to help out 00:00:49 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/variety.png 00:00:59 <TrueBrain> terinjokes: btw, for what project do you want a crosscompiler 00:01:09 <peter1138> ^ flat bits and middle bits and high bits 00:01:19 <terinjokes> ^ flat bits and middle bits and high bits 00:01:30 <peter1138> :w 00:02:21 <terinjokes> i'm building an application using WxWidgets, hopefully something that will get me away from my preporitory job ;) 00:02:41 <Eddi|zuHause> could have been a tad bit more detailed ;) 00:02:44 <TrueBrain> so it has nothing to do with OpenTTD ;) 00:03:05 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has joined #openttd 00:03:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and couls use a few rivers :p 00:03:27 <peter1138> yeah i scaled it too far 00:03:35 <peter1138> but my pc took a minute to open the full size 00:04:08 <terinjokes> TrueBrain: i'm not the best programmer, and I currently have no Mac, but maybe I can fix that heart on the homepage 00:04:10 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/variety2.png 00:04:40 <TrueBrain> terinjokes: if you have no Mac, developing for it will be a road better left untaken 00:05:12 <terinjokes> TrueBrain: I'm working on getting a MCP to replace my iBook that died 00:06:22 <TrueBrain> either way, we are willing to help with any specific questions; we can't help you any more with the vagues ones you have been asking in the last 24 hours ;) 00:06:33 <Terkhen> good night 00:06:34 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@82.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 00:07:19 <Yexo> nice map peter1138 00:07:36 <Yexo> I assume that's generated by our modified version of tgp? 00:07:37 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 00:07:49 <Yexo> s/our/your/ 00:07:55 <peter1138> yeah 00:08:06 <peter1138> i've added multiple curve maps 00:08:17 <peter1138> then interpolated based on map position 00:08:25 <peter1138> could be slow mind you :s 00:08:36 *** PeterT_ [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 00:08:40 *** PeterT__ [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 00:08:53 *** PeterT was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [stop the hurting] 00:08:55 *** PeterT_ was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [stop the hurting] 00:08:58 *** PeterT__ was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [stop the hurting] 00:10:04 <peter1138> much better result though 00:14:22 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: is that a "rough" map and if so, do smoother ones have less steep hills? 00:14:41 <peter1138> good point 00:14:43 <peter1138> it's rough 00:14:44 <Eddi|zuHause> but finally a map where tunnels might be useful 00:14:49 <peter1138> i've not touched that control 00:19:45 *** xorkrus [~xopknet@92.46.175.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still not entirely satisfied with the mountains tending to have plateaus instead of peaks... 00:26:12 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77D92.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:26:36 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77DEE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:32:43 <Eddi|zuHause> hm. why can't kate's syntax highlight differentiate between identifiers and other symbols? 00:37:11 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [] 00:37:53 <terinjokes> sigh, went to the store while waiting to the SDK to download, seems to have frozen... 00:38:34 *** Elton04523 [~Delphi@189.82.180.113] has joined #openttd 00:38:46 <Eddi|zuHause> computers tend to do that exactly in the time they are unattended 00:39:44 <terinjokes> Eddi|zuHause: not them computer, just the download 00:40:01 <Eddi|zuHause> same difference 00:40:36 <terinjokes> yep 00:44:48 *** Elton04523 [~Delphi@189.82.180.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:48:05 *** Elton03993 [~Delphi@189.82.180.113] has joined #openttd 00:48:54 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... how do i teach kate that everything ending in "_t" is a type? 00:49:17 <Eddi|zuHause> or better: parse typedefs ;) 00:49:48 <terinjokes> call her kate_t (say it out loud) 00:52:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yay... after 250MB of download, installing tetex crashes... 00:52:26 <Eddi|zuHause> xetex 00:53:38 <Eddi|zuHause> terinjokes: i'm not entirely sure that when i say such a thing outloud i'll get the same effect that you are 00:55:03 <terinjokes> kate_t == katie 00:55:27 <terinjokes> Eddi|zuHause: I had a fun time getting TeX installed over the years 00:56:15 * fjb simply types "make install" 00:56:52 <terinjokes> fjb: i tried that way too... didn't like me too much... 00:57:26 <fjb> It never failed for me. 00:57:30 <Eddi|zuHause> terinjokes: i simply downloaded the rpm from the repository, and then i get double frees... 00:57:32 <terinjokes> something about could not make directory. [ERROR 2] 00:57:44 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-7bf8e253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:58:00 <Eddi|zuHause> or rather: "free(): invalid pointer" 01:01:19 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:05:37 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #openttd [] 01:05:59 *** zodttd2 [~me@user-0c90n1c.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd 01:12:40 *** zodttd [~me@user-0c90n1c.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:16:24 *** thingwath [~thingwath@r2ap232.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:17:28 <terinjokes> as I wait for this SDK to download... is there an advantage to having an git/hg repo ontop of svn? 01:18:31 *** Chrill [~chrischri@80.216.60.117] has quit [] 01:19:43 *** thingwath [~thingwath@r2ap232.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 01:24:10 *** DarkED [~J@cpe-069-132-094-107.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:24:31 <Eddi|zuHause> only if you have a large amount of branches or external patch writers 01:25:20 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:32:45 <Eddi|zuHause> svn has the advantage of a globally linear revision number, while hg/git have the advantage of easy branching and local versioning 01:33:31 <SpComb^> status so far: played for 2.5h, so far linked up 4+2 cities, 16 trains, 26 trams, year is 1924, largest town has a pop of 6.5k :( 01:33:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so svn is useful for keeping track of the main development version, and hg/git for branches and user patches 01:34:25 <SpComb^> this is with 4x daylength - towns are way too big, given that I've still only got the very basic dbset passenger coaches (30pax) 01:34:52 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: you might want to check out the passenger reduction patch 01:35:06 <SpComb^> well, I'd also like to slow down physical town growth 01:35:39 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i might once have had a solution for that... 01:41:04 <deghosty> let us in your game :D 01:42:51 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-156-17.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:44:04 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: you can put something like "if (tick_counter%daylength_factor!=0) return;" into town_cmd.cpp:TownTickHandler 01:44:55 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: or modify t->growth_rate 01:45:29 <Eddi|zuHause> but maybe that needs to be increased in size first, haven't checked 01:45:30 <SpComb^> yeah, I've looked at the code a bit 01:45:44 <Eddi|zuHause> it's initialised in DoCreateTown 01:46:17 <SpComb^> one thing I tried was to multiply TOWN_GROWTH_FREQUENCY 01:46:22 <Eddi|zuHause> "t->growth_rate = 250*daylength_factor;" 01:46:22 <SpComb^> well, increase 01:46:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and check data type 01:47:02 <SpComb^> but that didn't actually work, didn't get around to figuring out why - killed town growth to zero 01:48:19 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... t->growth_rate is also modified in UpdateTownGrowRate 01:48:30 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: the TownTickHandler-version should be safe 01:48:35 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CCA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Progman] 01:48:45 <SpComb^> yeah, changing the growth_rate is tricky, because it's pretty dynamic 01:49:07 <SpComb^> TownTickHandler is only run every TOWN_GROWTH_FREQUENCY ticks by OnTick_Town 01:49:23 <SpComb^> so that was the first thing I tried to change - effectively the same 01:50:10 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, yes 01:50:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i see 01:50:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see why that shouldn't work 01:51:10 <SpComb^> for whatever reason, when I did that, all the towns stopped growing completely 01:51:29 <Eddi|zuHause> how did you change it? 01:51:30 <SpComb^> TOWN_GROWTH_FREQUENCY is somehow related to the size of the town array 01:51:54 <SpComb^> effectively changed it to 70*daylength_factor 01:52:12 <SpComb^> and changed it to a #define instead of a static const byte 01:52:13 <Eddi|zuHause> might want to try changing the data type, too. 01:52:35 <Eddi|zuHause> err... make sure you add () then 01:53:09 *** KenjiE20|LT [~KenjiE20@host86-171-245-75.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 01:53:22 <SpComb^> yeah, it was actually #defined to ScaleFromOriginalDate(70), which was `template<typename T> static inline T ScaleFromOriginalDate (T value) { return value * _date_daylength_factor; }` 01:53:39 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.21.40.168] has quit [Quit: ????] 01:54:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's only used once, so might put that directly in the if (tick_counter % ScaleDate(TOWN_BLAH)) 01:54:43 <SpComb^> well, it's referenced in a comment :P 01:55:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, don't change the constant, but add the Scale to the use of the constant 01:55:37 <SpComb^> I'd have to debug it and see what the issue was, but when I left the game running for 100y, the towns didn't grow at all 01:56:11 <Eddi|zuHause> with servicing the city? 01:57:08 <SpComb^> yes 01:57:43 <SpComb^> I built a short train between two cities, then loaded that savegame in two openttd's - one running at daylength=1, one running at daylength=2 01:57:53 <SpComb^> 1 growed, 2 didn't 02:02:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see why it should be wrong... 02:07:23 <SpComb^> nor did I, it seems like the right approach, I'll give it another go sometime soon, I think I got tied up in the intricacies of git at that point 02:07:45 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has joined #openttd 02:13:24 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d459.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:46 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 02:25:31 <terinjokes> my internet just hates me tonight... now it seems the package mirror is offline 02:40:04 *** rubix` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has joined #openttd 02:40:04 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:43:20 *** Mickster04 [~Mike@adsl-83-100-150-26.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 02:43:36 <Mickster04> hey how do i get the digger tool to show, i mean its there but greyed out? 02:44:01 <Mickster04> nm 02:44:04 *** Mickster04 [~Mike@adsl-83-100-150-26.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 02:46:53 *** JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:47:48 *** welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.214] has joined #openttd 03:12:05 <terinjokes> TrueBrain: is there a reason to prefer MacOSK10.4.Universal over MacOSX10.5? 03:16:36 <Eddi|zuHause> might have had something to do with getting things to run on 10.3, just a guess 03:18:12 <terinjokes> i noticed Rubidium's instructions used both... might do the same 03:18:29 <Eddi|zuHause> and you might want to focus your question sessions on european time ;) 03:18:40 <terinjokes> just read the file 03:18:43 <terinjokes> "For most targets, you want to extract the 10.4u SDK. This allows your binary to run from 10.3 to 10.5. 03:18:59 <terinjokes> Eddi|zuHause: i realized this morning ;) 03:28:17 *** rubix` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:28:30 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has joined #openttd 03:30:37 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:ddf4:9078:3e40:a359] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:42:38 <terinjokes> sigh.... make failed at the same spot as last night.... http://pastebin.ca/1719071 03:51:34 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: 540 seconds] 03:54:24 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:07:37 *** KenjiE20|LT [~KenjiE20@host86-171-245-75.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:27:35 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: ecke] 04:38:15 *** Plimmer [~Plimmer@x1-6-00-1d-09-dd-43-93.k341.webspeed.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:47:08 *** thingwath [~thingwath@r2ap232.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:05:13 *** DaleStan [~Dale@c-24-12-4-37.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 05:14:43 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:32:35 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has joined #openttd 06:29:18 <Rubidium> terinjokes: as I said, missing includes... I reckon you didn't take a look at my ld64.patch 06:29:19 *** spader [~terin@ip72-196-123-143.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #openttd 06:31:17 *** terinjokes [~terin@ip72-196-123-143.ga.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:41:37 *** PhoenixII [ralph@j104051.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:42:11 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@j104051.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:48:40 *** xopek [~xopknet@92.46.175.52] has joined #openttd 07:08:04 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:23:59 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@82.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 07:25:37 <Terkhen> good morning 07:30:09 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 07:30:29 *** _xopek [xorkrus@ip-67-189.interbild.net] has joined #openttd 07:30:41 *** xorkrus [~xopknet@92.46.175.52] has joined #openttd 07:30:44 *** nfc [nfc@cable-hvk-fe7ede00-156.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:36:21 *** Splex [~splex@n058152254152.netvigator.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:36:39 *** Splex [~splex@n058152254152.netvigator.com] has joined #openttd 07:38:43 *** _xopek [xorkrus@ip-67-189.interbild.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:38:53 *** _xopek [xorkrus@ip-67-189.interbild.net] has joined #openttd 07:38:56 *** xorkrus [~xopknet@92.46.175.52] has quit [Quit: http://xopkep.blogspot.com/] 07:39:13 *** xopek is now known as Guest538 07:39:13 *** _xopek is now known as xopek 07:39:50 *** Guest538 [~xopknet@92.46.175.52] has quit [Quit: http://xopkep.blogspot.com/] 07:50:13 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:54:59 *** pw-- [~w00f@96.243.199.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:55:20 *** pw-- [~w00f@96.243.199.76] has joined #openttd 07:57:40 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:10:48 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has joined #openttd 08:14:59 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Flieht, ihr Narren!] 08:34:54 *** worldemar [~woldemar@188.122.246.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:42:49 <peter1138> mm 08:42:57 <peter1138> possibly need more variety on huge maps 08:45:25 *** JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:45:27 <Noldo> hm? 08:48:43 <peter1138> hmm, 2048x2048 on smooth works quite well 08:49:56 *** worldemar [~woldemar@213.178.41.154] has joined #openttd 08:58:49 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d199-126-251-5.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 09:07:09 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:15:38 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B0079.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Icebears are cute. Please, take care of them!] 09:22:13 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 09:27:51 *** spader is now known as terinjokes 09:28:22 <terinjokes> TrueBrain: you wouldn't happen to know if SetFile is availible on Linux? 09:29:06 <TrueBrain> I indeed wouldn't happen to know 09:30:20 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B0079.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:30:23 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 09:30:42 <terinjokes> is any of that useful? what I'm building crashes with "/Developer/Tools/SetFile -t APPL wxrc" (seems to be the lasn step 09:31:17 <TrueBrain> I have no idea 09:32:23 <terinjokes> looks like there's a replacment in http://kobesearch.cpan.org/htdocs/MacOSX-File/MacOSX/File/Info.pm.html 09:34:19 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dba8286.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:38:54 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 09:55:22 <TrueBrain> terinjokes: most tools can be replaced (if needed), most are not that needed after all. The one that seems not replacable is 'hdiutil' or what was it called, which is used to make .dmg files (compressed ones) 10:03:24 *** bartaway is now known as bartavelle 10:14:25 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dba8286.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:25:20 *** thingwath [~thingwath@r10lq22.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 10:38:28 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2002:4e34:ba2c:1:9d1d:dda5:d49d:7a72] has joined #openttd 10:40:59 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc4-newt30-2-0-cust18.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:44:47 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 10:44:57 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 10:52:14 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:52:58 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:03:48 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F5BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:09:10 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 11:09:16 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B0079.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:11:33 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B3943.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:11:36 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 11:14:03 *** ptr [~peter@p123-n250.kthopen.kth.se] has joined #openttd 11:14:53 <edeca> What am I doing wrong, all the vehicles seem to favour that one platform! http://imagebin.org/75968 11:14:57 <edeca> I am using a recent nightly 11:17:45 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F5BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:38 <fjb> Move both outer loading places one tile closer to the station entry so that the distance from the entry to the loading places is equally long. That may help. 11:20:22 *** ptr [~peter@p123-n250.kthopen.kth.se] has left #openttd [] 11:21:11 * roboboy wonders if openttd would compile under msvc++ 6 11:21:26 <roboboy> it should I would have thought 11:21:49 <peter1138> isn't that the ancient version? i don't think it does 11:21:56 <peter1138> the newer free versions work though 11:22:31 <roboboy> it was the last non dotnet version of VS 11:22:34 <edeca> fjb: OK 11:23:15 <Yexo> edeca: are you playing with 0.7 or with a nighty? 11:23:28 <edeca> Yexo: Last night's nightly 11:23:43 <edeca> I was playing with a ~4 day old nightly 11:23:45 <edeca> Just upgraded 11:23:47 <Yexo> strange 11:23:54 <Yexo> I thought that was fixed 11:24:03 <edeca> They just go to the nearest platform, no matter what happens 11:24:16 <edeca> I just created a one way circuit round that and it still happens 11:26:06 <peter1138> roboboy, it won't compile then, you need the newer versions, preferably the newest 11:26:09 <peter1138> they're free, so... 11:29:21 *** Gremnon [~Gremnon@87.112.14.85.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 11:29:47 *** Gremnon [~Gremnon@87.112.14.85.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [] 11:31:06 *** Gremnon [~Gremnon@87.112.14.85.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 11:35:43 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc4-newt30-2-0-cust18.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:40:01 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:40:48 <Gremnon> probably a silly questions, but is there any way to force an MSVC build to handle crashes the same way a GCC one does? 11:47:04 *** welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.214] has quit [Quit: welshdragon] 11:52:25 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:856:f0c2:8cfc:bd24] has joined #openttd 11:52:28 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 11:54:14 <TrueBrain> Gremnon: you question is a bit ambigious. It might help if you explain what you expect from a crash 11:57:23 <Gremnon> I mean that GCC builds handle crashes differently to an MSVC one, AFAIK 11:57:45 <Gremnon> Since I have only experience in dealing with the GCC crash dumps and so on, I wanted to see if MSVC could be made to do the same 11:57:58 <Gremnon> so it wouldn't need the PDB or debug builds that CargoDist sometimes needs 11:58:03 <Eddi|zuHause> very unlikely 11:58:47 <Gremnon> that's a bit of a pest 11:59:40 <TrueBrain> MSVC crash dumps are in fact more verbose, but no, they are not compatible, and you can't make them compatible (for the obvious reason) 11:59:47 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.20.19.223] has joined #openttd 12:00:20 <Gremnon> alright, so without having access to MSVC, is there any way to use those dumps? 12:00:42 <Gremnon> I haven't looked yet, but I have my doubts about MSVC working via wine, which is the only way I could ATm 12:01:09 <TrueBrain> I doubt that is possible 12:01:28 * Gremnon goes looking on Amazon for a new copy of Windows 12:01:45 <Gremnon> I'm going to need one, it seems... everything seems to need it... 12:02:03 <TrueBrain> or just don't use MSVC 12:02:05 <TrueBrain> I don't :p 12:02:38 <Gremnon> well, i'm trying to debug my pack, and petert raised the valid point that he compiles with it, which leaves me with crash logs I can't use 12:02:51 <Gremnon> unless he's willing to take on debugging too... 12:04:03 <Yexo> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=41992&p=841344#p841344 petert said here he compiles with gcc, not with msvc 12:04:44 <Gremnon> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=841344#p841344 would seem to disagree 12:04:59 * peter1138 ponders posting a patch that formats your harddrive... 12:05:05 <peter1138> petert will post a build 12:05:28 <Yexo> Gremnon: you notice that is exactly the link I posted? read again, ".. with GCC and not MSVC..." 12:05:40 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2002:4e34:ba2c:1:9d1d:dda5:d49d:7a72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:05:48 <Gremnon> bah, I haven't had a cup of tea yet, I misread it 12:05:57 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2002:4e34:ba2c:1:9d1d:dda5:d49d:7a72] has joined #openttd 12:06:06 <Gremnon> wait, I thought GCC did generate the crash.dmp? 12:06:12 <Gremnon> it always has for me, but if that's just Linux... 12:06:46 <Yexo> dunno, haven't used linux on my desktop for quite a while 12:07:03 <planetmaker> when defining the additional shore sprites in the extra newgrf of OpenGFX, using the 10 sprites version... I wonder why they don't get used... (trunk r18527, OpenGFX r281 with a diff as found at http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/688 ) 12:07:08 <Gremnon> I think it's time I went and stuck OpenTTD on this freshly installed Debian build to find out... 12:08:12 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit] 12:08:39 <Alberth> Gremnon: I have ~/.openttd/crash.{log,sav,png} files 12:09:10 <Alberth> Gremnon: and I have core dumps enabled 12:09:39 <Alberth> for gdb 12:11:16 <Gremnon> hmm... this is very odd... is it just gcc on win that doesn't dump then 12:17:46 <TrueBrain> core dumps are made by the kernel, not by gcc 12:18:33 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm55.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 12:18:40 <Gremnon> right, so by that logic, would I be right in assuming that to get a dump at all from any win32 build, it'd have to be an MSVC one, and I'd need the PDB of the matching build 12:18:58 *** Elton03993 [~Delphi@189.82.180.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:18:59 <TrueBrain> yes 12:19:13 <Gremnon> Why does windows have to be such a pain... 12:19:32 * Gremnon wonders if it's possible to run linux OpenTTD via Cygwin/MinGW 12:19:44 <Gremnon> it'd certainly help in some areas 12:19:58 <TrueBrain> a pain? just because it is different then you are used to? I find that an overstatement 12:20:04 <TrueBrain> Windows just approaches crashes differently 12:20:22 <Gremnon> I used to be used to Windows, and I used to think Linux was a pain, now it's the other way around 12:20:39 <TrueBrain> so it is not the OS, just your perspective on the OS 12:21:17 <Gremnon> alright, so I'm a bit biased against Windows, I now find that when I have to use it, I wonder how on earth I managed to put up with it before 12:21:21 <Gremnon> at least I'm not a Linux fanatic 12:27:29 <Eddi|zuHause> you are starting to sound like one ;) 12:28:43 <Gremnon> ah, no, a fanatic is someone is who insists that his OS is the best et all. I like Linux, I find it's easier, but I try not to keep going on about it 12:28:58 <Gremnon> I also don't try to convert anyone to using it 12:35:35 *** xi23 [~xi@78.110.223.65] has quit [] 12:37:34 <fjb> Linux can't be the best OS because FreeBSD is. *hides* 12:42:20 <Noldo> hihi :) 12:48:34 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d185.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:54:13 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:57:28 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@rbijker.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:57:34 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@vps.jontysewell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:58:25 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i need a quick git cheatsheet... 12:59:15 <Gremnon> Eddi|zuHause - http://ktown.kde.org/~zrusin/git/git-cheat-sheet-medium.png 12:59:19 <Gremnon> useful much maybe? 13:02:49 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has joined #openttd 13:12:22 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@2002:4e34:ba2c:1:208a:b70e:a94c:f963] has joined #openttd 13:13:11 *** Skiddles [~notme@cm55.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 13:14:48 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm55.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:16:17 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 13:16:33 <Eddi|zuHause> woah... conflicts in date_gui.cpp span practically the whole file... 13:18:44 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2002:4e34:ba2c:1:9d1d:dda5:d49d:7a72] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:18:44 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 13:19:13 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:19:59 <fjb> Cargodist? 13:28:06 <Eddi|zuHause> well, more timetable gui 13:28:33 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aejl116.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 13:29:43 <fjb> Oh, they also use git? 13:32:37 <Eddi|zuHause> no, they don't 13:45:01 <fjb> Why then git? I find it counter intuitive. 13:46:00 <Eddi|zuHause> to try it out? 13:47:21 <fjb> Ah, you are evaluating revision control systems to find a new one for your personal use? 13:48:04 <Eddi|zuHause> mainly i want to be familiar with it when other projects use it 13:48:34 <Gremnon> personally, in comparison to mercurial, I find git is slow and checkouts take up too much space 13:49:54 <blathijs> Hmm, I found git lightning fast compared to svn already :-) 13:50:37 <Gremnon> my speed issue is that to get a single revision, it seems to insist on bringing all kinds of bits I don't want 13:50:45 <fjb> I used find confusing. And it had some problems to keep the history of a file which was moved into another directory, last time I tried it. And it didn't work well on Windows then. 13:50:47 <Gremnon> svn I can get a specific revision or head in a matter of moments 13:51:43 <blathijs> Gremnon: Unless you moved around files, I just tried that and it took me a few different approaches before that worked... 13:52:29 <Gremnon> blathijs, you mean checking out an svn revision? 13:52:31 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@rbijker.net] has joined #openttd 13:52:34 *** mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by ChanServ 13:52:43 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@vps.jontysewell.net] has joined #openttd 13:52:51 <thingwath> Gremnon: --depth 0? 13:52:53 <fjb> Most revision control systems have problems with moved or renamed files and directories. 13:53:04 <blathijs> But I agree that git can be confusing, it doesn't have a very consistent interface. Windows support is better though, last time I tried (1.5 years back) there was a MSYS based version that even came with bash for free :-) 13:53:40 <Gremnon> thingwath, I've not tried much like that with git, I prefer to avoid it unless necessary, which is why I apply trunk-cargodist against svn trunk instead 13:54:05 <blathijs> Gremnon: Yeah, I want to checkout just a specific directory from an old directory, but it was moved in the latest revision. So just svn co -r rev svn://url/to/dir didn't work. I had to append @rev to the url, I found out after some time. 13:54:05 * FauxFaux uses git command-line from windows-cmd and from Eclipse relatively painlessly. 13:54:15 <FauxFaux> git's handling of line ending still makes no sense, though. 13:54:35 <blathijs> FauxFaux: Like, it doesn't handle line endings right? 13:54:48 <Gremnon> blathijs, to get a specific revision, say 18495, I use svn checkout -r 18495 svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk <destination folder> and it works fine 13:55:11 <blathijs> Gremnon: Not if trunk was renamed to foo later 13:55:20 <FauxFaux> blathijs: The way that status can show modified files after git reset --hard, for example. 13:55:36 <Gremnon> if it was renamed, then substituting the new name should work 13:55:41 *** Elton07997 [~Delphi@189.82.180.113] has joined #openttd 13:55:50 <blathijs> FauxFaux: Hmm, now that you mention it, I saw that on windows sometime as well... 13:56:15 <blathijs> Gremnon: I don't think so. At least, checkout out the new name and doing svn up -r rev didn't work 13:56:19 <blathijs> bbl 13:56:24 <FauxFaux> If you disable autocrlf and ensure your editors defailt to unix line endings then it's fine (windows line endings would be fine, but gitweb then looks like poo). 13:58:42 <thingwath> how fast is svn checkout on openttd trunk? 13:59:05 <thingwath> If I have whole openttd git repository, I can switch to different revisions in ~seconds, I doubt that svn can beat that. 13:59:06 <Gremnon> thingwath, for me, I can get head in a few moments. I've never timed it, but it's the quickest way to get it for me 14:00:49 <Noldo> are you really having some kind of version control war? 14:02:13 *** Fish-Face [~fish@cpc3-stkp4-0-0-cust578.manc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:02:14 <Gremnon> I hope not, but FWIW I prefer SVN because of the speed I can get it, Mercurial for more advanced actions that SVN doesn't support, and GIT only if there's no other choice 14:03:58 <Alberth> thingwath: if you pull svn over the Internet, it is not a fair comparison 14:04:09 <thingwath> hm, ~10 seconds for openttd trunk checkout with svn 14:04:12 <fjb> I don't see this as a war. 14:04:18 <thingwath> that's quite good 14:05:45 <fjb> I have chosen bazaar because it saves me a lot of disc space and worked like I expected out of the box. 14:06:45 <Gremnon> by the same logic, that's pretty much the same reason I favour SVN 14:07:04 <thingwath> Is there a way to have whole svn repository locally? I remember svk, but that wasn't exactly the thing I'd like to use. 14:07:07 *** worldemar [~woldemar@213.178.41.154] has quit [Read error: Connection refused] 14:07:31 <Gremnon> why would you want to, when you can call in a specific revision from the online repository in a few seconds? 14:07:51 <thingwath> because quite often I can't :) 14:07:53 <Gremnon> especially since you can 'update' with svn update to an older revision as well as a new one 14:09:40 <Gremnon> looking at the output of svn -h and the man page, I don't think there is a way, except possibly by 3rd party tool, or checking them all out yourself 14:09:43 *** mib_nlu5ynt1 [54de0518@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:09:51 <Gremnon> I think in that case, git does win out over hg and svn 14:10:46 *** mib_nlu5ynt1 [54de0518@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [] 14:11:02 <fjb> The next problem is putting local changes under version control. 14:11:07 <thingwath> Well, I use git-svn for that purpose :o) But that is really slow. 14:11:21 <planetmaker> the fundamental difference between hg and git on the one side and svn on the other side is distributed VCS vs. centralized VCS 14:11:21 <Gremnon> fjb, doesn't mercurial have something to handle that? I'm sure it does. 14:11:30 <thingwath> I'd like to have something faster. To clone whole openttd svn repository with git-svn would be very painful. 14:11:45 <planetmaker> For most parts a distributed VCS has its advantages, if you maintain many local branches of a repo. 14:11:57 <planetmaker> as you can check out any version w/o internet access 14:12:14 <fjb> Gremnon: The local changes problem is related to svn, not mercurial. 14:13:09 <Gremnon> I believe there's a mercurial equivilent of git-svn, but I could be wrong 14:13:19 <planetmaker> and if you do a bit more dev than applying an occasional patch to trunk, a VCS with the whole history locally rules 14:13:45 <Gremnon> planetmaker, that's way I keep a manual log of everything I do, especially when it comes to multiple patches and conflicts 14:13:52 <fjb> Yes. That is why I replaced svn for my personal use. 14:13:56 <Gremnon> slower, but also means I can write it in a format I understand 14:14:06 <planetmaker> fjb: same here :-) Using hg ever since 14:14:28 <thingwath> hm, is there any reason why I woulnd't like to have whole repository locally? 14:14:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Administr@88.130.180.103] has joined #openttd 14:14:39 <planetmaker> Gremnon: manual log... that's like throwing away a VCS while you use it. 14:14:47 <planetmaker> thingwath: space? 14:15:01 <Gremnon> not really, I note down the exact changes I make, and I can interpret it a lot quicker 14:15:15 <thingwath> planetmaker: Of course. Exepct that. Even linux-2.6-stable is no more than 1.5GB, and I don't mind that. :) 14:15:26 <Gremnon> and yes, space is a limiting factor, 200GB drives don't grow on trees 14:15:31 <fjb> I'm always low on disc space, so I use bazaar now. And is has import and export plugins for other version control systems. 14:15:32 * Gremnon wishes they did 14:15:33 <planetmaker> thingwath: yes. And then do that with 20...30 checkouts 14:15:46 <planetmaker> on a laptop 14:15:55 <thingwath> For a single repository? I don't need that, with git. 14:16:02 <thingwath> Just branches, which are cheap. 14:16:35 <planetmaker> well, yes :-) 14:16:56 <Gremnon> space is why I like svn - my current local modified copy has never been more than 125MB after compiling 14:16:59 <planetmaker> that's the one thing where git has a bit of an advantage over hg still, I think. Though hg is getting to better handling of those, too 14:17:20 <edeca> Gremnon: WinDBG will load crash dumps but I doubt that runs in WINE either 14:17:52 <Gremnon> edeca, will have a look at it. I'm going to have a look at getting Wine to play nice with MSVC later too. 14:18:18 *** Elton07997 [~Delphi@189.82.180.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:29 <fjb> Has git a kind of shared repository when the branches live in the same directory tree? 14:18:50 <thingwath> That's quite basic feature of git. :) 14:19:15 <edeca> Gremnon: WinDBG is more likely to run than MSVC I'd guess :) 14:19:41 <Gremnon> edeca, we'll see, I've got to get Wine itself to behave on a fresh Debian install yet 14:19:51 <fjb> That saves a lot of duplicated space and the reason for me not to use mercurial. 14:19:52 <planetmaker> fjb: yes, that's IMO the whole point of git 14:20:02 <edeca> Gremnon: Are you using a nightly/updated wine or the one from the repository? 14:20:07 <planetmaker> but I haven't yet used it extensively myself 14:20:20 <fjb> Bazaar uses shared repositories too. 14:20:43 <Gremnon> edeca, neither at the moment, but I always aim to go for the nightlies. I keep getting 404 not found on the Lenny repositories it suggests 14:20:46 <fjb> I didn't know git also has that feature. 14:20:52 <planetmaker> hg can, too. No problem to maintain zillions of heads 14:21:09 <planetmaker> but... dunno. I prefer separate repos :-) 14:21:11 *** Elton07527 [~Delphi@189.82.180.113] has joined #openttd 14:21:19 <edeca> Gremnon: Eh I use the ubuntu ppa ones, unsure if they'd work on debian but I don't see why not :) 14:21:34 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@88.130.177.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:21:47 <Gremnon> edeca, If all else fails, then I'll just compile it from source, it wouldn't be the first app I've had to so far 14:22:13 <edeca> So does anybody know why I'm experiencing a bug with road vehicles always picking the nearest road stop? 14:22:21 <edeca> I thought it had been fixed in the recent nightlies :( 14:22:30 <Gremnon> It has, to my knowledge 14:22:51 <edeca> I can reproduce :( 14:23:26 <Gremnon> btw, for anyone using windows and mingw, could they possibly have a look at this: http://visual-mingw.sourceforge.net/ if it works for OpenTTD, I think it could be useful 14:24:07 *** worldemar [~woldemar@213.178.39.33] has joined #openttd 14:25:20 *** Elton07527 [~Delphi@189.82.180.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:27:22 <glx> Gremnon: it's far from being finished 14:27:25 <planetmaker> edeca: did you then produce a decent bug report at flyspray? 14:28:06 <planetmaker> with best both, a savegame which (will) show(s) it and steps on how to reproduce? 14:28:29 <Alberth> thingwath: just in case you don't know, you can pull git and hg mirrors of the svn openttd repo 14:28:29 <edeca> planetmaker: Sure, I can bug it if you like 14:28:47 <edeca> planetmaker: I have a screenshot and can find a savegame 14:29:04 <Alberth> edeca: thanks :) 14:29:16 <planetmaker> edeca: it's not "I like it". It's the way you most easily bring it to the attention of who can fix it. And it won't get forgotten till it's fixed 14:29:18 <blathijs> thingwath: Yeah, the git mirror is useful for offline hacking (I've used both that and svk before) 14:30:14 * planetmaker ponders also making a bug report about shore sprite substitutions in base set extra grfs. 14:30:17 <glx> Gremnon: and IIRC it can only edit code and compile 14:31:07 <Gremnon> glx, I don't have Windows available to have a look, and I only saw it in passing. Maybe when it's a bit further along it could be useful? 14:31:14 <Ammler> planetmaker: wait for frosch ;-) 14:31:22 <planetmaker> ^ my plan :-P 14:31:39 <thingwath> Alberth: Yep, it's very useful, much much better than having to use git-svn myself. :) 14:32:30 <Belugas> good day 14:35:12 <Terkhen> hello Belugas 14:35:48 <edeca> "Account acitvated (Step 3/3)" typo on http://account.openttd.org/en/signup/step3 14:39:23 <edeca> How do I attach a savegame if it is >8mb and wont compress any further? 14:41:23 <Belugas> set up an ftp server on your machine? 14:42:01 <edeca> Oh, I could link to it from my server 14:42:08 <edeca> Good idea, I'm an idiot :) 14:42:35 <Alberth> make a smaller example 14:42:37 <Belugas> naaa... 14:43:04 <michi_cc> Gremnon: SVN is actually very space-ineffective. Size of a fresh SVN checkout and git clone: http://paste.openttd.org/220635 14:43:16 <Alberth> edeca: your problem should be reproducable right at the beginning of the game 14:43:28 <edeca> Alberth: Good point, I'll make a smaller one 14:43:44 <Alberth> michi_cc: svn makes a copy of every source file, so divide by 2 for a comparison 14:44:08 <michi_cc> Gremnon: 8MB more gets you complete history and no network dependency for doing any real work. (Note: if you do heavy development on the git repo, a regular git gc will keep size down) 14:45:15 <michi_cc> Alberth: are these files optional to work with SVN? They aren't as far as I know which means that they do count 14:45:45 <Alberth> fair point 14:46:43 <Gremnon> I think the space effectiveness depends on how you use it really, I seldom have enough to make it worth the extra that GIY would provide, for the slower checkout time I experience 14:47:40 <edeca> Alberth: Nope, I just started a new game and I can't reproduct :) 14:47:57 <michi_cc> oh, and: 88M openttd_hg 14:47:59 <Alberth> weird 14:48:26 <edeca> Alberth: Oh well, I should change how I'm doing it anyway as I shouldn't have trucks waiting to unload waiting for those that depend on output 14:49:13 <michi_cc> Gremnon: are you sure you mean checkout? Beacuse http://paste.openttd.org/220637 and that's with cygwin which is known to be slow. 14:49:17 <Alberth> edeca: yeah, that seems sane :) 14:49:32 *** [sober] [~andyb@pool-72-69-81-166.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 14:50:05 <Gremnon> michi_cc, by checkout, I mean that if I get a computer which has only just had GIT installed, and has never checked out CargoDist, the two commands the CargoDist wiki page says to use will take about an hour to complete for me 14:50:05 <michi_cc> Gremnon: a git clone on the other is slower, but you have to do that mostly only once, and a fetch/pull to update is fast if done regularly (i.e. the remote repo hasn't got too many changes) 14:50:37 <Gremnon> the thing is, i don't *need* all the revisions - just the one I'm working on currently, and unmodified trunk's head 14:50:46 <Gremnon> those are the only two checkouts I use 14:51:23 <edeca> Alberth: It seems to be with articulated vehicles. 1 articulated vehicle takes up the same space as 2 smaller ones, perhaps the game thinks there is an empty "slot" at the station so all vehicles head for it 14:51:27 * edeca guesses randomly 14:51:49 <michi_cc> Gremnon: okay, but cargodist is accessed by an http-url, right? A clone of git://git.openttd.org/openttd/trunk will probably be much faster. git over HTTP is definitely slow, that is a drawback compared to svn 14:52:46 <Gremnon> I've never tried a git checkout of openttd itself, I've preferred svn because, as said, it takes very little time to get a single revision 14:54:00 <Alberth> edeca: first priority in a FS bug is to explain/show how to reproduce the problem exactly. You can add guesses if you like, but say it is a guess rather than a fact. 14:54:33 <michi_cc> yes, but cloning needs to be done only once. a regualr fetch/pull/checkout/whatever to get the new trunk changes will likely be as fast as svn 14:54:42 <edeca> Alberth: I'm just uploading the example then I'll bug 14:54:56 <Eddi|zuHause> you still discussing git? 14:54:58 <Gremnon> the space for each additional revision still adds up though, and space is something I have to economise on 14:55:16 <planetmaker> get a new HD :-P 14:55:29 <Gremnon> with just two folders, my working copy and trunk@head, that's very little space taken up, overall, compared to having an entire git clone@HEAD sat there 14:55:42 <Gremnon> planetmaker, on a laptop that has no means of connecting one? 14:55:57 * edeca buys Gremnon an Etch-A-Sketch 14:56:06 <planetmaker> Gremnon: on a laptop you can also replace the HD 14:56:28 <planetmaker> I actually quite like that I did with my last system upgrade 14:56:29 <michi_cc> it does add up, but not that fast. being very short on space is one of the reasons to manually run git gc regularly 14:56:31 <glx> a laptop without usb ? 14:56:39 <Gremnon> planetmaker, problem then is that it'll have to come with an OS preinstalled, because if it's blank, I can't do anything with it 14:56:47 *** [sober] [~andyb@pool-72-69-81-166.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:56:48 <Gremnon> glx, no, the only USB port no longer works, that's all 14:56:54 <Gremnon> and it has no CD/DVD drive, stupidly 14:57:02 <thingwath> 231M /home/thingie/stuff/openttd/ 14:57:07 <thingwath> that isn't much, I think 14:57:10 <edeca> Network boot! :) 14:57:15 <thingwath> and you can boot over the network 14:57:16 <thingwath> :) 14:57:17 <Gremnon> michi_cc, well, I'll try it if/when I ever get my laptop working again 14:57:18 <Gremnon> sigh 14:57:21 <Gremnon> can't network boot 14:57:26 <planetmaker> Gremnon: even that could be don on another computer then. 14:57:26 <Gremnon> laptop doesn't support it 14:57:27 <Gremnon> already tried 14:57:41 <thingwath> then have someone install the system on that disc for you :) 14:57:47 <Gremnon> planetmaker, if you can find what I'd need to do it for a laptop HD compatible with a Dell Latitude C400, then I could 14:58:04 <Gremnon> as it is, I lack any means of connecting it to your standard tower PC 14:58:20 <planetmaker> Gremnon: any usual 2.5" disc will do, I guess 14:58:27 <edeca> Gremnon: I think you need a new laptop.. ;) 14:58:41 <Gremnon> planetmaker, nope, it doesn't use that. LinuxQuestions already helped find that out 14:58:50 <Gremnon> edeca, certainly, but I lack the funding to get it 15:02:44 *** |Terkhen| [~Terkhen@172.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 15:03:27 * Gremnon ponders moving to Gentoo because he seems to be compiling almost everything lately 15:07:18 <edeca> Gremnon: I used to use gentoo all the time 15:08:15 <Gremnon> the main reason I'm considering it again is because the Debian repositories seem to be missing a LOT of packages I use a lot 15:08:29 <Gremnon> so I have to compile them, and I'm practically compiling everything now, it seems 15:08:36 <thingwath> debian repositories missing packages? 15:08:43 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@82.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:08:49 <edeca> What sort of packages? 15:08:53 <Gremnon> not exactly missing as such, but the packages I use aren't there 15:08:58 <Gremnon> packages like Subcommander 15:08:59 <edeca> I find with universe/multiverse on Ubuntu most stuff is there 15:09:12 <Gremnon> that's Ubuntu though, not Debian, and there's even more packages that ubuntu has that Debian doesn't 15:09:12 <edeca> Alberth: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3384 15:09:16 <michi_cc> and some pointless git cheating: http://paste.openttd.org/220640 (cheating: nobody in his right mind would do such a repack every single day and thusly always have a larger repo (still, full history smaller than signle checkout)) 15:09:24 <Gremnon> even with free non-free and contrib enabled 15:09:29 <edeca> Gremnon: Many of them are straight from Debian though 15:09:58 <thingwath> You can package it yourself, if it's just a few packages. 15:10:11 <Ammler> michi_cc: run hg up null 15:10:15 <Gremnon> thingwath, I still have to compile it first, as Subcommander has no Debian precompiled 15:10:23 *** |Terkhen| is now known as Terkhen 15:10:34 <edeca> Gremnon: I use checkinstall for that, you still have to ./configure 15:10:35 <Gremnon> edeca, I know, but if by that logic, they should be in the Debian repositories - and they're not 15:10:55 * edeca uses Ubuntu for desktops and Debian for servers 15:10:59 <edeca> And Windows 7 at home to please the wife 15:11:00 <Gremnon> edeca, actually, ./configure, make, make install, since I'm not packaging and distributing them 15:11:27 <edeca> Gremnon: ./configure && checkinstall = easy package for you to remove later :) 15:11:48 <Gremnon> that works too, but make uninstall also removes it too 15:12:03 <edeca> Only if the author thought to include that, but yes true 15:12:11 <Gremnon> I'm just a bit peeved that so many packages I'm used to on previous distros, even non-deb-based ones, aren't in Debian 15:12:12 <michi_cc> Ammler: that git repo is still with the working checkout, I didn't cheat that much ;) 15:12:20 <Gremnon> I seem to be using far too much space on the -dev packages 15:12:34 <Ammler> :-) 15:12:58 <michi_cc> Ammler: 33M .git :) 15:13:06 <thingwath> Gremnon: clean deb packages could be built elsewhere and you'd save that much precious space :) 15:13:47 <blathijs> Gremnon: I guess you use a very particular category of packages then, since in my experience Debian has one of the largest repositories of all distros... 15:13:51 <Gremnon> thingwath, I don't have any deb-based system except this one at the moment 15:14:26 <Ammler> well, you don't use hg because of the disk usage, but is is very easy for svn users. 15:14:26 <Gremnon> blathijs, I don't dispute that, there are packages in Debian's repos that I've never seen before, but I still think there's too many missing 15:14:29 *** weaselboy246 [risugami@67-54-241-148.cust.wildblue.net] has joined #openttd 15:14:44 <Gremnon> and Debian's habit of rejecting things like Firefox on what seem to me to be technicalities doesn't help any either 15:15:17 <blathijs> Gremnon: They are called principles, not technicalities :-) 15:15:31 <blathijs> Gremnon: And the software is there allright, it's just the name :-) 15:15:44 <ChoHag> Gremnon: They're doing you a favour. 15:15:48 <Gremnon> you mean the Iceweasel that's outdated? I prefer latest stable 15:15:49 <ChoHag> Firefox is shit. 15:15:53 <Gremnon> I don't think so 15:15:56 <ChoHag> It will steal your children and burn down your house. 15:16:00 <ChoHag> And eat your bandwidth. 15:16:01 <Gremnon> I think that about Opera, but not FF 15:16:22 <Gremnon> Opera to me is not as useful, but for maybe two features 15:16:37 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dba8286.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:16:38 <Gremnon> the quick-dial, and the one-click key icon which saves passwords, not that I save them 15:18:26 <blathijs> Gremnon: The Iceweasel version you get is the same as the Firefox version you would have gotten without the licensing issues. If you think that's too old, that's another issue entirely... 15:18:43 <Gremnon> I don't think so. Debian's Iceweasel reports as 3.0, not Firefox's 3.5.6 15:19:17 <Gremnon> I know that because several of my addons refuse to work with Iceweasel because it reports as 3.0 15:19:22 <Gremnon> and this is from Debian Lenny's repo 15:21:37 <blathijs> Gremnon: This is really unrelated to the naming issue... 15:22:00 <blathijs> Gremnon: I agree that Debian is not the fastest with its updates, but it's really a feature in a way :-) 15:22:25 <Gremnon> sometimes you have to makea balance between passing things off as features, and actually providing the updates people want 15:22:41 <Gremnon> which is why I've put actual branded firefox in /opt, and will continue to use actual branded firefox 15:23:07 <Gremnon> Firefox aside though, I have to wonder why several open source projects, such as the mentioned subcommander, are missing from their repo 15:23:09 <Alberth> edeca: thanks for the report, although I don't know how to fix it. 15:23:12 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 15:23:25 <Alberth> edeca: I don't even can load the save game due to missing newgrf files 15:23:44 <Alberth> s/don't even can/cannot even/ 15:23:58 <Alberth> hmm, still not right 15:24:06 <blathijs> Gremnon: Apparently there hasn't been a Debian maintainer interested to invest time in the package... 15:24:38 <Gremnon> hmm... seeing as it refuses to compile on Debian, I'm inclined to agree with that... 15:24:45 <Gremnon> now I just need something that I can use in place of it 15:26:27 <Rubidium> Gremnon: if you want the updates quickly, use Ubuntu and sit on the blisters of it not being stabilising for a while before going 'stable' 15:27:18 <Gremnon> I've gone off Ubuntu and derivatives after a clean install of 9.04 saw nautilus segfault before I even did anything 15:27:48 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:28:07 <Gremnon> Fedora I used, and went off because of SELinux's over-restrictiveness, and the lack of a means to remove it, and I'm now working my way through other distros until I find one that works for me 15:28:16 <Gremnon> Debian just happens to be the current victim of my use 15:33:25 <Rubidium> hmm, iceweasel isn't in debian backports? 15:33:57 <Gremnon> I wouldn't know, backports 404s on me, as does debian unofficial 15:34:42 <Gremnon> I've been using this (http://debgen.simplylinux.ch) to get the sources for the list, but either it's outdated, or C&P seems to be doing something wrong as they don'twork for me 15:35:02 <Gremnon> at least, when set to location GB, and version set to Lenny 15:39:28 <edeca> Alberth: I'll whip one up with only the road vehicles set 15:39:37 <Rubidium> oh, it isn't in backports... that's too bad for you 15:40:23 <Gremnon> not really, as said, I've gone and got the stable firefox from mozilla, and put it in /opt, works no different than if it had been package-installed on ubuntu except for where it's located 15:40:47 *** weaselboy246 [risugami@67-54-241-148.cust.wildblue.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:41:15 *** weaselboy246 [risugami@67-54-241-148.cust.wildblue.net] has joined #openttd 15:42:03 <Gremnon> hmm, subcommander is in Squeeze, but not Lenny... I know Squeeze is testing, but isn't it meant to be for testing in Debian, not testing the actual software itself? 15:43:14 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has joined #openttd 15:43:28 <peter1138> .. 15:43:43 <edeca> It's a proposed addition to the next release of the distro 15:43:47 <edeca> Hence it needs testing 15:43:55 <edeca> Alberth: Updated so that it has a better savegame 15:44:11 <Alberth> ok 15:44:18 <Gremnon> by that, you mean testing it's compatibility with Debian, not just it? 15:44:32 <edeca> Yes. It's not software testin 15:44:33 <peter1138> testing is the next release of debian 15:44:40 <peter1138> why shouldn't new programmes be in it? 15:44:42 <edeca> It is "make sure we have the right dependencies and it runs correctly" 15:44:47 <peter1138> (how else would you get new programmes in?) 15:45:06 <Gremnon> now, unless I've mis-checked the dates, Subcommander hasn't changed since Lenny was Squeeze, and has still been in there 15:45:08 <edeca> peter1138: Magic fairies 15:45:21 <Rubidium> Gremnon: testing is for everything that's in unstable and didn't have more serious bugs within 10 days than the 'current' version in testing 15:45:23 <peter1138> Lenny was never squeeze 15:45:34 <edeca> Gremnon: Sure, but once a distro is released not too many new packages are added 15:45:58 <Gremnon> I think I need to be using Squeeze instead, it might solve just about every problem I've had with Debian so far 15:46:11 <edeca> ITYM "ubuntu" :P 15:46:13 *** deghosty [~s@69-165-138-152.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:46:14 <Gremnon> except getting sound working 15:46:34 <Gremnon> and no, not Ubuntu, I'm not using that. If nautilus segfaults on a fresh install, there's something very wrong 15:46:57 <edeca> Yes, but wrong with what? :) 15:47:01 <peter1138> debian lenny works great for me :D 15:47:20 <Gremnon> I like to have a working file manager, installing other ones didn't help any either 15:47:41 <peter1138> gnome-vfs-daemon has a habit of crashing with smb though 15:47:47 <Gremnon> maybe I just need to find a different distro that isn't so annoying for me, or maybe I'll finally get around to trying freebsd 15:48:06 <peter1138> (i reported the bug but there's no fix apart from wait for squeeze for gvfs instead) 15:50:30 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aejl116.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 15:50:55 <Gremnon> and yet everyone I ask seems to think debian lenny is perfect for me, although Mandriva has also been suggested 15:51:01 <Gremnon> I think I might give it a shot 15:55:47 *** Gremnon [~Gremnon@87.112.14.85.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Back to Debian] 15:55:53 *** worldemar [~woldemar@213.178.39.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:56:44 <edeca> Rubidium: Thanks for your comment on my bug. It only seems to happen with articulated vehicles though 15:56:44 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18528 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Fix (FS#3370): Platform length/count buttons not centred when NewGRF stations in use. 15:57:29 <Rubidium> edeca: I've tested it with articulated vehicles and it worked fine there, although I'm seeing more 'brokenness' with that savegame 15:57:47 <Rubidium> probably exactly the length to trigger some corner case 15:58:40 <edeca> Rubidium: OK, I'll do as you say and build smaller entrances. But that's a brand new savegame, nothing weird :) 15:58:50 <edeca> Thanks for your comments 15:59:33 <Rubidium> build a 3 tile (length) road stop and the second vehicle doesn't load... that shouldn't happen 16:00:01 <Rubidium> why that does happen I don't exactly know, although it might be somewhat related to your problem 16:00:01 *** APTX [~APTX@ks32603.kimsufi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:23 <edeca> It's almost like the vehicles are heading for that station as they don't think it is occupied 16:00:23 *** APTX [~APTX@ks32603.kimsufi.com] has joined #openttd 16:03:54 <planetmaker> Rubidium: concerning FS 3383: I understand correctly that this issue works for newgrf, but cannot be fixed for basegrfs? 16:04:51 <planetmaker> But I don't quite understand your reply there, I think 16:07:39 *** Thomas_OTTD [~Thomas_OT@97.83.89.27] has joined #openttd 16:07:59 *** Thomas_OTTD [~Thomas_OT@97.83.89.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:08:17 *** Thomas_OTTD [~Thomas_OT@97.83.89.27] has joined #openttd 16:08:36 *** Thomas_OTTD [~Thomas_OT@97.83.89.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:08:40 <planetmaker> The point I tried to make there is: the text for the lower default ships is beyond their sprites... 16:08:47 <planetmaker> s/beyond/behind/ 16:08:52 *** Thomas_OTTD [~Thomas_OT@97.83.89.27] has joined #openttd 16:09:11 *** Thomas_OTTD [~Thomas_OT@97.83.89.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:36 *** Thomas_OTTD [~Thomas_OT@97.83.89.27] has joined #openttd 16:09:55 *** Thomas_OTTD [~Thomas_OT@97.83.89.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:10:08 *** Thomas_OTTD [~Thomas_OT@97.83.89.27] has joined #openttd 16:10:23 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:10:27 *** Thomas_OTTD [~Thomas_OT@97.83.89.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:10:48 *** Thomas_OTTD [~Thomas_OT@97.83.89.27] has joined #openttd 16:11:07 *** Thomas_OTTD [~Thomas_OT@97.83.89.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:17 *** worldemar [~woldemar@188.122.230.5] has joined #openttd 16:13:50 <peter1138> arrr, http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/variety3.png 16:16:06 <peter1138> just needs rivers ;p 16:16:14 <Eddi|zuHause> hah, no extreme cliffs anymore ;) 16:16:37 <peter1138> hmm? 16:16:47 <planetmaker> pretty flat map, eh? 16:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: on typical TGP maps with water borders, there is usually a steep cut at the edge of the map 16:18:16 <peter1138> hmm 16:18:27 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/variety4.png 16:18:29 <peter1138> another 16:18:38 <peter1138> planetmaker, luck ;) 16:18:58 <peter1138> there are 4 curve maps 16:19:29 <peter1138> each corner picks one of the 4 randomly, duplicate is allowed so it's not all 4 types may appear on a map 16:20:01 <peter1138> then linear interpolation is used with some massaging to apply the curve maps across the map 16:20:30 <peter1138> this might need to be changed, though 16:20:52 <peter1138> on a huge map it's probably too obvious 16:22:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i think that gets closer to what the original landscape generator did on arctic maps 16:22:25 *** thagamer [~thagamer@97.83.89.27] has joined #openttd 16:22:45 <peter1138> yup 16:22:46 *** thagamer [~thagamer@97.83.89.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:22:47 <Eddi|zuHause> where one half of the map was above snow level and the other half was below 16:23:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't figure out how to properly terraform for the rivers 16:24:04 <weaselboy246> hmm, is it possible to get actual cliffs? like instant drop to a few levels down? 16:24:20 <Eddi|zuHause> weaselboy246: not currently 16:24:29 <Eddi|zuHause> weaselboy246: and not likely in the near future 16:24:29 <weaselboy246> or does the map structure not allow that 16:24:33 <Skiddles> variety4.png would make a fun map to play on, if not for the clump of industries at Condingville D: 16:24:34 <weaselboy246> hmm ok 16:24:44 <planetmaker> peter1138: is it TGP or what you posted in Zeph's land gen thread? 16:25:12 <Eddi|zuHause> weaselboy246: let's say the map structure can be modified for it, but the visual representation and access to what's "behind" the cliff is problematic 16:25:17 <peter1138> Skiddles, i probably need to tweak industry properties 16:25:30 <peter1138> i bet i've enabled the one that allows industries close to each other 16:25:35 <peter1138> planetmaker, it's a progression of that 16:25:37 <Skiddles> probably 16:25:38 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.37] has joined #openttd 16:25:48 <planetmaker> I see :-) 16:25:58 <weaselboy246> ahh... that's true. can't rotate map if there was something on other side 16:26:04 <Skiddles> Go host a pj1k server which resets in 1970 D: 16:26:06 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: you seem to be there where I kinda gave up with rivers :-) 16:26:24 <peter1138> planetmaker, the patch i posted only applies one curve map to the whole thing 16:26:34 <peter1138> so it's not particularly varied 16:26:58 <planetmaker> ah... :-) So... a new landgen ahead? :-) 16:27:17 <peter1138> no, it's still just a small modification of TGP 16:27:21 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: well, i placed the rivers on the TGP heightmap, where one has the opportunity to find out on flat tiles where "downwards" is 16:27:34 <Eddi|zuHause> because of the fractional values 16:27:45 <planetmaker> good choice, I guess. I didn't do that 16:27:58 <peter1138> Skiddles, yup "allow multiple" and "same type" are both on 16:27:59 <Eddi|zuHause> but i get rivers on invalid slopes, and i can't properly fix them 16:28:38 <planetmaker> can't you query the type of slope? 16:29:05 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that's easy, but recursively terraforming the adjacent tiles without breaking other rivers... 16:29:19 <Skiddles> Hmm, would be nice to have primary industries of the same type, but secondary ones just make it messy 16:29:29 <peter1138> *nod* 16:29:30 <planetmaker> hm.... yes. Other rivers ;-) They're a pest 16:29:38 *** Madis [~stabuinte@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 16:30:33 <peter1138> set a flag to disallow destruction of rivers when terraforming 16:30:48 *** thagamer [~thagamer@97.83.89.27] has joined #openttd 16:31:07 *** thagamer [~thagamer@97.83.89.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:21 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i'm working on the heightmap, not on the actual map, so i'm only setting the heights 16:31:33 <peter1138> ah 16:33:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i can probably brute force set the heights backwards when creating a sink... 16:34:10 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-122-132.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #openttd 16:34:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not entirely sure how the HeightMapSmoothSlopes function works 16:34:41 <Devedse> Hello everyone, is there a way to select a part of your train track (for example a cross) and copy it to another place on the map? 16:34:49 <peter1138> no 16:35:48 <weaselboy246> there was a copy paste patch awhile back. probably broken now 16:36:04 <Devedse> ok :) 16:36:11 <Devedse> i gues il do it manually then :P 16:37:28 *** welshdragon [~markmac@client-82-26-219-248.pete.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:38:44 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:38:59 *** bartavelle is now known as bartaway 16:43:18 <peter1138> hmm, not all maps are any good 16:43:25 <peter1138> but then the same is true of TGP 16:53:13 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:56:42 <edeca> I think somebody was making sure the copy paste patch worked with trunk 16:56:49 <edeca> There is a compiled version on the forums that has it in 16:56:54 * edeca hasn't looked at the patch for a long long time 16:58:03 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 17:01:48 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@vps.jontysewell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:01:49 *** Rubidium_ [~Rubidium@rbijker.net] has joined #openttd 17:02:07 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has joined #openttd 17:02:13 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@rbijker.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:02:46 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f6def.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:04:21 <SmatZ> good evening frosch123 17:04:30 <frosch123> hello smatz :) 17:08:05 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@vps.jontysewell.net] has joined #openttd 17:12:27 <planetmaker> moin frosch123 :-) 17:12:41 <planetmaker> I'd like to pester you again :-P 17:12:42 <frosch123> quak planetmaker :p 17:12:56 <Sacro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eZcV1UuUzI <3 17:12:59 *** thagamer [~thagamer@97.83.89.27] has joined #openttd 17:13:18 *** thagamer [~thagamer@97.83.89.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:22 <frosch123> fine, if i can continue reading spon in parallel :p 17:13:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the "former news magazine"? :p 17:13:55 <planetmaker> I'm still messing with the shore tiles of OpenGFX... and the extra newgrf allows only 10 sprites, if the GRFID is the same as the hard coded OpenTTD grfID 17:14:26 <planetmaker> Now I wonder: is it a requirement that the extra (new)grfs have all that GRFID, or is it something which needs fixing in OpenTTD? :-) 17:15:32 <planetmaker> the relevant lines of code are newgrf_config.cpp:503 and newgrf.cpp:3628...3645 17:16:12 <planetmaker> or in other words: I'm not sure wheter it's a bug or a feature ;-) 17:16:28 <frosch123> hmm, i thought the grfid only has to start with ff to make it not show up in newgrf gui, while the rest is controlled by the obg 17:17:04 <planetmaker> that's what I *thought*, too :-) 17:17:28 <planetmaker> But the variable IsOpenTTDBaseGRF checks for that ID. And only then the 10 sprites are accepted 17:17:58 <planetmaker> actually, the ID starting with FF is explicitly NOT tested for. It's masked out 17:18:19 <frosch123> no, it isn't, the fourth byte is masked 17:18:32 <planetmaker> oh... swapping the stuff? 17:18:51 <planetmaker> ok... :-) that explains why my try to reverse the check fails 17:19:50 <peter1138> hurr 17:19:54 <Eddi|zuHause> grf-ids are shown in little endian, i believe 17:20:23 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/variety5.png < commit? :p 17:20:32 <SpComb^> Eddi|zuHause: seems like the TOWN_GROWTH_FREQEUNCY multiplier is working just fine now that I'm trying it again 17:21:02 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: good. now tell that in the daylength patch thread ;) 17:21:09 <planetmaker> Doesn't look bad, peter1138 17:21:36 <SpComb^> Eddi|zuHause: meh, I wouldn't know which one to post in, and I'm not sure I want to 17:22:22 <peter1138> ack, bloody customer 17:22:40 <Eddi|zuHause> how dare he! 17:22:53 <peter1138> "is $employee there?" "no" "oh, he was going to do a sale on our site like last year, did he mention it" "OH REALLY" 17:23:20 <peter1138> how "convenient" that $employee is off... 17:24:07 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: well, all those balancing issues must be collected somewhere, or there will never be a remotely trunk-worthy patch 17:25:30 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D263.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:27:01 <edeca> orly! 17:27:07 <Madis> yarly 17:27:22 *** Madis [~stabuinte@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.6/20091201220228]] 17:27:23 <edeca> I'm still waiting for BT to phone me back 48 hours later, on something that has a max 24 hour resolution time 17:27:42 <edeca> "sir, how about you try changing the username and password in your router to our test ones?" 17:28:02 <edeca> "sure, but will that fix the fact that all the packets which come from the exchange have a bad CRC and the line has been retraining for 3 days?" 17:36:25 *** APTX [~APTX@ks32603.kimsufi.com] has quit [Quit: Farewell] 17:37:44 *** APTX [~APTX@ks32603.kimsufi.com] has joined #openttd 17:39:52 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@172.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 17:40:26 <SpComb^> although I kind of suspect that changes to TOWN_GROWTH_FREQEUNCY aren't perfectly linear 17:42:12 <SpComb^> but given, there's random factor, so just comparing two games won't tell you much 17:43:00 <peter1138> planetmaker, patch posted :) 17:52:47 <SpComb^> but a town pop of 2.5k in 2050 with 1x seems to be a town pop of about 1k in 2050 with 2x :/ 17:55:20 *** Skiddles [~notme@cm55.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:56:52 * planetmaker goes checking forums :-) 17:59:44 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2002:4e34:ba2c:1:208a:b70e:a94c:f963] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:03:35 *** fjb [~frank@p5485DD76.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:34:03 *** sparrL [~kvirc@test.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:38:38 *** Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium 18:45:30 *** fjb [~frank@p5485DD76.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:44 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r18529 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed) 18:45:44 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:44 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: croatian - 45 changes by UnderwaterHesus 18:45:44 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: dutch - 4 changes by habell 18:45:44 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: finnish - 42 changes by Tve4, jpx_ 18:45:45 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: hungarian - 4 changes by IPG 18:45:45 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: italian - 11 changes by lorenzodv 18:51:13 *** George3 [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:55:08 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 18:56:19 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:31 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-122-132.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 18:59:34 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Read error: Connection 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Mail support@oftc.net if you feel this in error. 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reset by peer] 19:26:29 *** Hobiku_Dudukin_Perut-6pack [~mortifera@c-98-198-87-228.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:29 *** agas [~GSTARR@ftp.balcfg.com] has joined #openttd 19:26:29 *** agas [~GSTARR@ftp.balcfg.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:31 *** ANDRI_CHN_HAVING_FUN [~co-papua-@121.14.148.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:36 *** cow_oL [~co_nyante@120.50.48.252] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:44 *** Steffy_CuTe17 [~cwo_gante@123.237.6.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:07 <Belugas> wow... that is a big departure... 19:34:49 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf? 19:35:49 *** weaselboy246 [risugami@67-54-241-148.cust.wildblue.net] has quit [Quit: Beware of the bearers of false gifts and broken promises. Much pain but there is still time. Believe. There is still good out there. We oppose the decieve] 19:38:31 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77DEE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:49 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77DEE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:39:06 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has joined #openttd 19:40:06 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d199-126-251-5.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 19:41:03 <Belugas> quite indeed 19:41:10 <Belugas> manque de caf? moi... 19:43:58 * planetmaker donne de caf? ? Belugas 19:44:10 <SpComb^> but man, playing with a 4x daylength is awesome, first time ever that I've actually had a network of E62/E52 engines 19:44:10 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: ecke] 19:44:41 <Sacro> i do love daylength 19:44:53 <SpComb^> although this really does require smaller levels of passenger traffic in the 1920's, because you only start out with the pre-war coaches 19:45:15 <SpComb^> it's absolutely ridiculous to have a town with 7k pop, and then you have a million trains hauling a million of those tiny tiny coaches 19:45:42 <thingwath> Hm, I could try daylenght instead of just manually setting time back occasionaly in the cheat menu. :) 19:45:45 <SpComb^> or rather, very challenging 19:46:13 <planetmaker> he :-) 19:46:17 <SpComb^> thingwath: you have to chose carefully when it comes to daylength 19:46:44 <SpComb^> but so far, having played without industries, the #1 issue is town growth 19:47:21 <SpComb^> and then when you combine it with cargodist, #2 is too many passengers, and #3 is disproportionally many passengers on intra-city tram lines 19:47:38 <SpComb^> or perhaps not so disproportionate, but unmanagement 19:47:43 <SpComb^> *unmanagement amounts of 19:48:11 <planetmaker> unmanagable? 19:49:16 <SpComb^> subconscious typo 19:50:02 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 19:50:13 <Prof_Frink> Muphry's Law. 19:50:37 <SpComb^> you don't say 19:55:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i really don't understand how HeightMapSmoothSlopes guarantees that there are no invalid slopes... 19:58:27 <Belugas> planetmaker : du. not de :D 19:58:46 *** Mark [~Mark@5ED06D96.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:59:34 <Eddi|zuHause> so caf? is not "good"? 19:59:47 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18530 /trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp: -Fix (r18304): Width property set on window instead of width. 19:59:54 <Eddi|zuHause> my french teacher always taught the rule "everything that is good is female" ;) 20:00:07 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, it's magic ;) 20:00:33 <planetmaker> oh, he :-) 20:00:50 <planetmaker> I never got du, de, des etc right ;-) 20:00:55 <Eddi|zuHause> of course my teacher was female ;) 20:02:17 <planetmaker> Belugas: but I can count the caf? :-P 20:02:26 <Belugas> Le caf? est tr?s bon. Juste pas assez fort... 20:02:30 <planetmaker> one atom, two atom,... 20:02:46 <Belugas> Un Caf? deux caf? trois expresso, quatre toilettes... 20:02:53 <planetmaker> :-P 20:03:38 *** DarkED [~J@cpe-075-176-105-070.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:03:49 <Belugas> un caf?, du caf?. Une tasse de caf? 20:04:00 <peter1138> "A caf?" 20:04:11 <Belugas> A BoiRE! 20:04:13 <Muxy> Un café 20:04:14 <Prof_Frink> "Brew". 20:04:22 <peter1138> McAfee 20:04:30 <Belugas> Beer 20:04:31 <Muxy> fé 20:04:35 <Muxy> not fee 20:04:39 <Prof_Frink> Belugas: Your round. 20:04:55 <peter1138> McAf? anti-virus? 20:04:56 <Belugas> not today, wednesday i was 20:05:08 <Belugas> round -> rond -> ivre -> drunk 20:05:11 <Belugas> bwuauauaua!!! 20:05:26 <Prof_Frink> You make no sense. 20:05:53 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: does that still exist? 20:06:21 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... -14,3?C 20:06:34 <Eddi|zuHause> cooooold 20:06:41 <thingwath> whoa, time to go outside, I guess :) 20:06:44 <peter1138> McAfee does 20:06:50 * Prof_Frink wants snow 20:07:03 <Prof_Frink> thingwath: Was nice out earlier. 20:07:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i have snow 20:07:11 <Eddi|zuHause> beautiful one 20:07:19 <Eddi|zuHause> 3cm-ish 20:07:20 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:07:45 <Belugas> Prof_Frink : i do.... [15:04] <Prof_Frink> Belugas: Your round. -> You're round -> t'es rond -> t'es ivre -> you're drunk : [15:04] <@Belugas> not today, wednesday i was 20:07:57 <Belugas> pffff.... i've got to spell it out.... 20:08:18 <Prof_Frink> Belugas: You still make no sense, and it's still your round. 20:08:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: i'm still not convinced it actually makes sense ;) 20:09:06 <thingwath> Prof_Frink: earlier? it's still early enough :) only problem is that I cannot find my hat :( 20:10:43 <Prof_Frink> thingwath: Well, I was out earlier. Like the England cricket team. 20:11:19 <Prof_Frink> It was even sunny when I started 20:13:43 <thingwath> 9 pm isn't that late, trams are still running. Just... where is that hat. 20:14:30 <Prof_Frink> Trams? Trams ain't been running in *years*. 20:14:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Prof_Frink: so that was 3 days ago? :p 20:15:25 <Prof_Frink> Breathe, breathe in the air 20:16:38 <thingwath> I have plenty of trams. But not the hat. 20:16:39 *** DarkED [~J@cpe-075-176-105-070.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:19 <Belugas> i do make perfect sens! 20:17:32 <Belugas> you're not just wicked and twisted to understand it! 20:18:02 <Prof_Frink> That's a reversal of normality. 20:18:27 <Eddi|zuHause> what's normal? 20:18:41 <Prof_Frink> I'm ususally two too many steps removed from reality for other people to understand, and it's *still* your round! 20:18:43 <Belugas> whatever is not realistic 20:19:48 <Eddi|zuHause> so your two steps and his two steps make four steps... 20:20:26 <Eddi|zuHause> with a wall inbetween 20:20:33 <Belugas> the count is then complete, you can resume your samba 20:20:34 <Eddi|zuHause> or an ocean :p 20:20:35 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has joined #openttd 20:20:38 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:20:58 <Belugas> hem... rumba... not samba... 20:20:59 <Belugas> sorry 20:21:19 <Prof_Frink> Mulpic. 20:21:27 <thingwath> an ocean... four steps wide! 20:21:35 <Prof_Frink> Big steps. 20:21:58 <Eddi|zuHause> seven-mile-steps 20:22:12 <thingwath> which mile? :) 20:22:12 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: ecke] 20:22:22 <Eddi|zuHause> saxon postal mile 20:22:33 <Belugas> Mile Davis1 20:22:37 <Belugas> Mile Davis! 20:22:38 <Belugas> grrrr 20:22:38 <Prof_Frink> Statute would only get you across the Straits of Dover 20:22:49 <thingwath> hm, another mile that I don't know. 20:23:13 <Prof_Frink> thingwath: Yorksher mile. 20:23:16 <Eddi|zuHause> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurs?chsische_Postmeile 20:23:26 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@251.140.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 20:23:33 <Belugas> Mile itaire 20:23:48 <Eddi|zuHause> 1 Mile = 2 "hours" = 9062,08m 20:24:33 <Belugas> i guess i should go back to work... 20:24:37 <Prof_Frink> Nooooooooooooo! 20:24:48 <Prof_Frink> Work is for the week! 20:25:22 <thingwath> hm, that's almost excatly the distance I have to walk to get beer, and back 20:25:25 * Eddi|zuHause should introduce Belugas to the german concept of "Freitag nach Eins" 20:25:53 <Eddi|zuHause> [meaning: fridays at 1 o'clock everybody stops working] 20:26:09 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: does that work in school too? Get a 1 for a test and a free day? 20:26:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: not entirely sure ;) 20:27:44 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: 1 o'clock? That's late for me 20:29:13 <Prof_Frink> Quite a few Fridays this year finished on Thursday :) 20:37:59 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 20:38:52 <SpComb^> is there a hotkey for remove-signal? 20:39:59 <Eddi|zuHause> r? 20:40:05 <Eddi|zuHause> s,r? 20:40:27 <Eddi|zuHause> there needs to be a hotkey for convert signal... 20:40:37 <SpComb^> yay, r 20:40:50 <SpComb^> it's nice for rail-building because you can just use Ctrl 20:41:15 <SpComb^> for convert signals you can do Ctrl-click 20:41:35 <SpComb^> although perhaps that shouldn't cycle between path signals and normal signals 20:54:59 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: there's a setting for that 20:55:14 <Eddi|zuHause> block-only, path-only or both 21:00:28 <peter1138> hey what? 21:02:01 <Prof_Frink> what hey? 21:02:20 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:05:54 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF94EA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:10:12 *** Mark [~Mark@5ED06D96.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference] 21:12:29 <peter1138> who knows 21:17:45 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has joined #openttd 21:22:28 <SpComb^> wtf, I got the BR18, the local passenger coach, and the mainline mail van 21:22:35 <SpComb^> ENOSENSE 21:25:01 <SpComb^> ah well, I guess they come along slowly, got the mainline passenger coach now 21:26:02 *** sparrL [~kvirc@test.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:26:16 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has joined #openttd 21:31:38 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@cpc3-pool3-0-0-cust999.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 21:33:43 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dba8286.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:21 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18531 /trunk/src/ (roadstop.cpp roadveh.h roadveh_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#3384] (r18404): for articulated road vehicles only the first part was accounted for, so for extremely short fronts and lots after it the spreading did not work as it should. 21:34:25 <SpComb^> and my trains seem to have problems finding their way into depots 21:34:36 <Rubidium> automagically? 21:35:23 <glx> Muxy: UTF-8 please :) (yeah I'm reading back) 21:35:56 <glx> <planetmaker> I never got du, de, des etc right ;-) <-- easy, "du" = "de le" 21:36:07 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18532 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Codechange/Fix (r18404): don't leave the road stop between tiles, just stay on it. This prevents the rare cases where a road vehicle would stop exactly on the border where it could not load 21:38:56 *** rubix` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has joined #openttd 21:40:29 *** __teeone [oryan@sometimes.hoes.need.to.be.slapped.us] has joined #openttd 21:41:34 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 21:42:12 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: the problem is that new wagons do not trigger a "new vehicle available" message 21:43:43 *** mikegrb_ [~michael@mail.thegrebs.com] has joined #openttd 21:43:53 <peter1138> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=45815&p=841561 21:43:57 *** tiaz_ [~matthias@catalyst.operationcitadel.net] has joined #openttd 21:43:59 <peter1138> ^ hehe... "i had a patch for that" 21:44:21 *** edeca_ [~david@lenny.lionserver.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:44:37 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:44:45 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: well, it was not newstation-able 21:45:37 *** CIA-4 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:45:42 *** zodttd2 [~me@user-0c90n1c.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:45:47 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:45:47 *** _teeone [oryan@sometimes.hoes.need.to.be.slapped.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:45:51 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, could be done 21:45:55 *** zodttd [~me@user-0c90n1c.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd 21:45:57 *** tiaz [~matthias@catalyst.operationcitadel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:46:07 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d199-126-251-5.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:46:12 *** edeca [~david@lenny.lionserver.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:46:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i expect your updated patch by tomorrow, then :p 21:46:48 <glx> <@peter1138> ^ hehe... "i had a patch for that" <-- long time you didn't say that ;) 21:47:16 *** mikegrb [~michael@mikegrb.netop.oftc.net] has quit [Killed (mikegrb_ (boo))] 21:47:20 *** mikegrb_ is now known as mikegrb 21:47:58 <SpComb^> something's broken with the send-train-to-depot routing for me, it only works if the train is one or two signals away from the depot 21:48:03 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:48:15 *** rubix` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: 540 seconds] 21:48:42 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: there should be a setting how many pathfinder-penalties it may accumulate 21:48:53 <peter1138> hmm 21:49:37 <frosch123> only in trunk though 21:50:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if cargodist is up to date yet 21:55:46 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d199-126-251-5.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 21:59:01 <Belugas> select * from rdb$dependencies where rdb$depended_on_name = 'PROCESSOR_NUM' 21:59:21 <Belugas> select * from rdb$dependencies where rdb$field_name = 'PROCESSOR_NUM' 21:59:24 <Belugas> ho... 21:59:28 <Belugas> ooops.... 21:59:29 <Belugas> sorry 22:01:27 *** CIA-1 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd 22:01:54 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-17-196.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 22:02:49 <Belugas> right... time to go now... loosing it 22:02:51 <Belugas> ciao all! 22:03:11 <Eddi|zuHause> have a snowy weekend! 22:10:57 <SpComb^> yeah, I'm playing with r18495 for cargodist 22:11:02 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aejl116.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 22:11:37 <SpComb^> had to dump all of my BR75's in 1927 because they aren't powerful enough to pull a full 5-tile consist of local wagons :( 22:11:41 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 22:14:43 <Eddi|zuHause> with realistic acceleration i never had problems pulling any passenger consist 22:15:12 <Eddi|zuHause> except a VT 98 with an (overweight) trailer 22:15:57 <Eddi|zuHause> a VT 98 trailer should weigh like 18t, but the passenger coach doesn't change its weight, so it's 40t 22:16:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it's "apparently" fixed in 0.9... but alas... 22:16:35 <Rubidium> you mean 0.vapourware? 22:17:55 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly... but the last time i called it that (like two days ago), he immediately contered with a sarcastic remark... 22:19:12 <Rubidium> sarcastic? I'd imagine it's just his normal way of writing 22:19:45 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77DEE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:05 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77DEE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:24:34 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has joined #openttd 22:27:04 <frosch123> night 22:27:08 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f6def.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:30 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F5BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:38:29 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: 540 seconds] 22:52:57 <thingwath> It is not that cold outside. 23:01:33 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@cpc3-pool3-0-0-cust999.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:03:58 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@cpc3-pool3-0-0-cust999.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 23:06:57 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 23:14:57 *** sparrL [kvirc@c-68-53-167-115.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:21:49 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Utm Aœ - Aja 35] 23:23:16 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@cpc3-pool3-0-0-cust999.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:01 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:36:55 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:31 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@251.140.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:59:36 *** dexter [~dexter@adsl6-213-134-31-171.nordtelekom.hu] has joined #openttd 23:59:39 <dexter> hi all