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00:00:25 <planetmaker> Earth is 5e24kg. The asteroid belt... I guess of the order 1e20kg 00:00:39 <planetmaker> maybe even less 00:01:49 <planetmaker> wiki sais 3e21kg 00:02:09 <Rubidium> that sounds about right-ish 00:02:10 <Eddi|zuHause> my table doesn't cover the asteroid belt 00:02:37 <planetmaker> Mars is 6e23kg 00:02:44 <Eddi|zuHause> so that's 0.003 00:02:57 <Eddi|zuHause> mars is 0.64 00:03:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and earth is 5.97 00:03:40 <Eddi|zuHause> so in the asteroid belt is actually nothing useful... 00:04:07 <Eddi|zuHause> moon is 0.073 00:04:17 <planetmaker> ;-) Some iron is there. And carbon 00:04:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so that's even factor 20 more... 00:05:05 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i mean in context of artificial planet [with useful gravitation] 00:05:18 <ccfreak2k> Aha. 00:05:25 <ccfreak2k> I finally tracked the next bug down. 00:05:31 <planetmaker> besides: Ceres alone is 9e20kg of the Asteroid belt's mass. 00:05:41 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: solving one bug creates two new ones 00:05:55 <ccfreak2k> Oh you. 00:06:21 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: it's how programmers ensure their jobs ;) 00:06:28 <ccfreak2k> OpenTTD is trying to open/list "carda:/lang/", while it should be either "carda:/openttd/lang/" or "/openttd/lang". 00:06:32 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 00:07:02 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: then you did not configure personal_dir and shared_dir correctly 00:07:08 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: they're constantly created ;-) But I guess they're natural ones. Artificial... you can buy stocks and invest millions. ;-) The outlook to realization might be worse than a true skyride with Virgin Galactic 00:07:21 <ccfreak2k> Obviously not, but I've been trying to figure out what would be correct. 00:07:45 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 00:07:54 <ccfreak2k> Basically everything should be in /openttd, except for the binary which is in /. 00:08:30 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: well, unless we "solve" the relativity, only planets within our solar system will be useful ;) 00:08:32 <planetmaker> ccfreak2k: then you might want to modify the make bundle command or add a new one 00:08:46 <ccfreak2k> I'm using my own makefile. 00:08:54 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: that depends. Perceived travel time on board might actually be quite ok 00:09:04 <planetmaker> But on Earth it might be eons 00:09:30 <planetmaker> But still... you'd need speeds of >~0.9c 00:09:46 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can limit the effects if you only travel at something like 1/4c 00:09:49 <planetmaker> acceleration sucks ;-) 00:09:56 <Eddi|zuHause> but you're enroute 4 times longer then 00:10:02 <planetmaker> yes, but then travel is already long ;-) 00:10:25 <Eddi|zuHause> so you only have a handful of reachable stars within the lifetime of the crew 00:10:27 <planetmaker> perceived time is not linear with speed ;-) 00:11:03 <planetmaker> with 0.999c you can travel quite far. Further than 100LY in a human's life time. 00:11:09 <Rubidium> planetmaker: just use the Oort Cloud for materials :) 00:11:28 <planetmaker> @calc (1/(1-0.99^2) 00:11:28 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1) 00:11:35 <Eddi|zuHause> ö 00:11:35 <planetmaker> @calc (1/(1-0.99^2)) 00:11:35 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number. 00:11:41 <Rubidium> ^ -> ** 00:11:42 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: ** 00:11:44 <planetmaker> @calc (1/(1-0.99**2)) 00:11:44 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 50.2512562814 00:11:53 <planetmaker> 50 times time-stretch 00:12:00 <ccfreak2k> Plus 0.25. 00:12:41 <planetmaker> so 2500 LY in 50 years lifetime 00:13:11 <Rubidium> but... a return trip means over 5000 years pass on earth, right? 00:13:17 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-122-132.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 00:13:19 <planetmaker> No return flights ;-) 00:13:27 <planetmaker> And yes, it means that 00:14:14 <planetmaker> This calculation has one nasty glitch: it doesn't consider acceleration ;-) 00:14:23 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: what if mankind builds faster space ships within these 5000 years? and surpasses the original crow? 00:14:32 <planetmaker> sure 00:14:42 <planetmaker> what should happen? 00:14:59 <planetmaker> the original crew will find a settled planet ;-) 00:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> they find a fully populated system 00:15:12 <Eddi|zuHause> with technologies far beyond their own 00:15:26 <planetmaker> and they'll be gaped at like oddities from a far distant past. Which even would be true 00:15:28 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F0B7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:15:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and a race that they might not recognize as human 00:15:54 <planetmaker> 5000 years is evolutionary no time 00:16:16 <ccfreak2k> Time enough for love. 00:16:16 <Rubidium> not for linguistics :) 00:16:26 <planetmaker> Except you assume evolution of Borgs or so. 00:16:33 <Eddi|zuHause> not natural evolution, but genetic engineering? 00:17:18 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: well... that's possible. Would be an interesting thing to observe as 3rd party ;-) 00:17:57 *** sunkan [~Tarquin@c-4f6644ce-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #openttd 00:18:13 <planetmaker> "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" 00:18:46 <planetmaker> that would be the other interesting experiment to observe when those civs would meet 00:18:51 <Eddi|zuHause> "any technology distinguishible from magic is not sufficiently advanced yet" :p 00:19:28 <planetmaker> you'll not perceive the technology of your time as magic. It's usual. 00:19:46 <planetmaker> But... what would today look like to a brass-age human? 00:19:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i know plenty of people who consider my programs as magic :) 00:19:54 <planetmaker> *bronce 00:20:19 <planetmaker> hehe 00:20:30 <ccfreak2k> planetmaker, someone else said that a few mins ago while some guy was going on about polymers. 00:20:54 <Eddi|zuHause> and that's really simple stuff as in "when tank == 90% full => close valve" :p 00:23:41 <planetmaker> god help, if you programme Leuna ;-) 00:24:03 <Eddi|zuHause> not that big ;) 00:24:23 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: and then wondering why the tank overflowed? 00:24:34 <planetmaker> lol 00:24:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: no, in the program it's actually a >= ;) 00:25:12 <Rubidium> yeah, sorry but tank filledness is a double, so the 90% is converted to a double and then we do == :) 00:25:33 <planetmaker> hehe 00:25:55 <planetmaker> With what do you programme such stuff, Eddi|zuHause ? 00:26:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: it's actually a 16-bit integer 00:26:55 <planetmaker> I only know LabView myself, and I know of some Siemens stuff which runs some larger systems 00:27:18 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it's an SPS 00:27:23 <Rubidium> LabView, is that that drag'n'program 'language'? 00:27:31 <planetmaker> Yes and no 00:27:59 *** SHADOW-XIII [~Miranda@cpc2-lewi3-0-0-cust462.bmly.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 00:28:05 <Rubidium> hmm, remember the good times... linking matlab, java and labview together :) 00:28:22 <planetmaker> yeah, that's the 'no' part ;-) 00:28:23 <Rubidium> (for some reason image acquisition in matlab wasn't fast enough) 00:29:06 <planetmaker> well... image aquisition speed is ressource heave ;-) 00:29:30 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: http://www.abbplc.com/pdf/907AC1131english.pdf 00:29:31 <planetmaker> and shows also nicely the difference between brutto and netto data rate 00:29:35 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Flieht, ihr Narren!] 00:29:53 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:30:27 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the IDE that got shipped with the module 00:31:24 <Eddi|zuHause> they allow programming in 5 different "languages" 00:31:51 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: same way like .Net is a dozen or so languages, right? 00:32:04 <planetmaker> sounds very similar to the SPS the drop tower in Bremen uses for its operation 00:32:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yeah, something like that 00:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: "Instruction List (IL)" is assembler like, "Structured Text (ST)" is pascal-like, the others are some kind of graphical representation 00:33:04 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C40.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:33:06 <planetmaker> though IIRC it was from Siemens. 00:33:27 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77CDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:33:39 <planetmaker> and now there was not even a textual representation ;-) 00:34:31 *** KenjiE20|LT [~KenjiE20@host81-129-83-105.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 00:35:10 *** KenjiE20|LT [~KenjiE20@host81-129-83-105.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:36:26 *** SHADOW-XIV [~Miranda@cpc2-lewi3-0-0-cust462.bmly.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 00:37:43 *** KenjiE20|LT [~KenjiE20@host81-129-83-105.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 00:38:13 <planetmaker> now time for sleep. Sleep well, too 00:38:17 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.16.209.107] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.1.1] 00:42:09 *** SHADOW-XIII [~Miranda@cpc2-lewi3-0-0-cust462.bmly.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:43:02 <aber> Where is the problem with OS X 10.6 ? 00:43:24 <Eddi|zuHause> read the thread. 00:43:24 <PeterT> aber: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=45247 00:43:50 <Eddi|zuHause> man... these cats totally tore apart my rails :( 00:46:55 *** SHADOW-XIV [~Miranda@cpc2-lewi3-0-0-cust462.bmly.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, THE BEST ! - http://miranda-im.org] 00:51:15 *** `Fuco` [dota.keys@comp68-2.vpn.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 00:58:14 *** mib_do7w2o [589346d0@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 00:58:29 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:00:44 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:07:15 *** JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:16:42 *** jpx_ [~jpx_@e83-245-141-68.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 01:18:42 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has joined #openttd 01:23:41 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has left #openttd [] 01:39:09 <ccfreak2k> Will openttd search for openttd.cfg in places other than PERSONAL_DIR? 01:39:32 <Rubidium> yes 01:40:01 *** `Fuco` is now known as Fuco 01:48:23 *** Fuco [dota.keys@comp68-2.vpn.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:51:09 *** sunkan [~Tarquin@c-4f6644ce-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:00:44 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:57 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has joined #openttd 02:13:43 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-71-233-211-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:21:50 *** fjb is now known as Guest1635 02:21:51 *** fjb [~frank@p5485C506.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:22:05 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:22:54 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-71-233-211-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 02:23:56 <Priski> does anyone has any experience about using Mercurial? 02:24:15 <PeterT> Yes, Priski 02:24:21 <PeterT> I have some basic experience 02:24:25 *** Guest1635 [~frank@p5485D98F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:25:11 <Priski> I was just thinkin if it was any good, is there any good reason using it instead of Subversion? 02:25:32 <glx> it's good for local development 02:25:42 <Rubidium> it all depends on what you want from your VCS 02:26:42 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 02:27:03 *** KenjiE20|LT [~KenjiE20@host81-129-83-105.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:43 <PeterT> I don't really know about the features of Mercurial or Subversion, but I do know that Git has amazing features when it comes to branches 02:27:58 <Priski> :P 02:29:04 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 02:29:47 <valhallasw> PeterT: yes. the disadvantage is a steeper learning curve compared to svn 02:30:08 <valhallasw> my head has problems keeping track of what-is-what 02:31:40 <Rubidium> if you want an increasing revision number that's the same on *all* checkouts, then use subversion. If you don't care about revision numbers you can choose either 02:32:05 <Rubidium> if you want to do fancy things during tagging, use subversion 02:32:39 <Rubidium> if you want people to easily make a local testing repository, don't use subversion 02:32:53 <Rubidium> if you want to have all history locally, don't use subversion 02:32:58 <PeterT> Use git 02:33:04 <Rubidium> if you want to commit when off-line, don't use subversion 02:33:08 <valhallasw> additionally, if you want to have an headache, use git-svn 02:33:26 <valhallasw> although it probably is great once the headache clears 02:33:39 <Priski> hmmm thanks Rubidium 02:34:26 <Rubidium> valhallasw: for that we use svn->hg->git :) 02:34:58 <valhallasw> I have never used hg :) 02:36:01 <Rubidium> oh, and tortoisehg seems to support ssh out-of-the-box where tortoisesvn needs plink or so (or that might be from long ago) 02:36:43 <Rubidium> oh, if you're using Windows, consider not using git because it doesn't like Windows' file system (it's horribly slow) 02:36:51 <Rubidium> it's extremely fast on linux though 02:37:15 <Priski> I plan to NOT use git 02:37:36 <Priski> but not because of my lowsy windöws 02:37:38 <Priski> =) 02:38:42 * valhallasw likes colinux quite a lot 02:39:00 <valhallasw> windows as gui, linux in the background for console stuff 02:39:08 <valhallasw> and it's not even terribly slow 02:40:24 <Priski> I just was thinking putting project into google code since SF is the great mammoth which has some gas sometimes 02:41:38 <Priski> the simplicity appeals to me 02:42:24 <Rubidium> the eula or whatever it may be called doesn't appeal to me 02:44:15 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:44:27 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has joined #openttd 02:47:50 <Rubidium> but I agree that SF was sucky and annoying and they have managed to make it even suckier and more annoying than it already was 02:48:30 <Rubidium> seriously... I can mark only one binary as windows, one as osx and one as linux? What about x64? 02:49:04 <Priski> =) 02:50:02 <Priski> Rubidium: whats tha problematic part about that EULA? 02:51:17 <Priski> just reading these licences, cant even be sure if I read the right one, there seem to be few of them here... 02:51:54 <Rubidium> that I can read the TOS in such a manner that Google is allowed to change the license. If I can interpret it in that way, then a lawyer can too and presto... my project can be released by Google under a license that they like 02:52:43 <Rubidium> bye bye clause that gives you the right to request the source if you have a GPL licensed project 02:53:10 <Rubidium> also Google may, without notice, just remove whatever they like or just plainly terminate the whole thing 02:53:28 <Rubidium> woopsie... there goes your nice wiki page with the manual 02:54:20 <Priski> yeah, but then again, I was planning to use google code as an intermediate step if project goes well 02:55:05 *** Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@166.151.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 02:55:06 <Priski> I can still remove project from there and that terminates the license 02:55:21 <Priski> at least for future versions 02:55:27 <Rubidium> true, but be aware that migrating a wiki or bug tracker is cumbersome 02:56:29 <Priski> that i know for experience (at least for the bug tracker) 02:56:32 <Priski> :) 03:01:24 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@166.151.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:12:06 <Priski> great examples on mercurial site, first glance was bit 03:12:29 <Priski> confusing but actually pretty straightforward 03:12:33 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has left #openttd [] 03:12:54 <valhallasw> yeah. we tried doing that for pywikipedia, switching from the sf.net tracker to JIRA 03:13:18 <valhallasw> sf.nets export sucks and JIRAs import functionality sucks :p 03:14:10 <PeterT> Night all 03:14:18 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-71-233-211-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:16:46 <Priski> only thing is how to deal with managing "subrepos" since you cannot co one part of the repos 03:17:31 <valhallasw> I think they solved that in a typical programmer sense 03:17:36 <Priski> another thing is the size of that thing since you need the copy of the whole repo 03:17:47 <valhallasw> 'this software is so efficient, you won't need subrepo's!' 03:18:36 <Priski> valhallasw: just have to change way to manage project if subproject emerge 03:24:20 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c38a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:25:38 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-107-92.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:41:28 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: 540 seconds] 03:48:24 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-17-131.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:56:52 *** lskdfj [LadyHawk@office01.ldhosting.com] has joined #openttd 03:57:21 *** LadyHawk [LadyHawk@office01.ldhosting.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:57:22 *** lskdfj is now known as LadyHawk 04:04:54 *** gr00vy [cRave@188.107.246.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:05:32 *** gr00vy [cRave@dslb-188-097-153-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 04:25:18 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-166-107.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:26:25 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:b515:1db0:46d2:553f] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:27:13 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-143-192.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 04:27:16 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 04:38:59 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:55:04 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has joined #openttd 04:59:59 *** welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.98] has quit [Quit: welshdragon] 05:00:33 *** welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.98] has joined #openttd 05:37:39 *** jpx_ [~jpx_@e83-245-141-68.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 05:43:30 *** Splex [~splex@n219078137059.netvigator.com] has joined #openttd 05:46:09 <sparr> any thoughts on how various custom server types will work in 1.0.0 in light of http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3590 ? 05:46:58 <sparr> I've come to like Ex's and Luukland's servers lately, and will miss them greatly 06:31:44 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:01:22 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:16:34 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:30:17 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has joined #openttd 07:59:31 *** kd5pbo [~kd5pbo@adsl-99-162-207-45.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:02:51 *** lolman [~Holygoat@cust247-dsl93-89-128.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 08:03:08 *** JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:05:15 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 08:07:07 <Yexo> sparr: if they really need FS#2590 that badly they'll have to distribute custom binaries to the clients 08:20:55 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Administr@89.246.171.75] has joined #openttd 08:27:10 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@88.130.190.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:31:04 <planetmaker> moin 08:34:21 <roboboy> ello 08:37:22 *** JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:54:30 *** Yexo [~Yexo@38-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:56:03 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 08:57:03 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-17-131.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 08:59:31 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-17-131.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:26 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@180.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 09:02:06 <Terkhen> good morning 09:11:57 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 09:15:21 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 09:47:48 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 09:59:35 <TrueBrain> blathijs: you worked on FPGA, not? 10:00:15 <blathijs> TrueBrain: I never actually programmed one, but yes :-) 10:00:45 <TrueBrain> hehe :) I just agreed on my bachelor project: I am going to make Dune2 run on a FPGA :p 10:01:00 <TrueBrain> well .. not sure if there is enough time to do so for real (mostly because of missing drivers), but still :p 10:01:07 <TrueBrain> this is really sick .... 10:01:49 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 10:01:50 <blathijs> Cool :-) 10:02:14 <TrueBrain> no: SICK :p 10:02:17 <TrueBrain> either way ..... 10:02:27 <blathijs> In what way "run" ? Synthesize a processor on the FPGA and run it on there, or? 10:02:29 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 10:02:56 <TrueBrain> I have to read up on the whole process, but what I gathered: convert it to microblades first, then to FPGA 10:03:00 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 10:03:02 <TrueBrain> but yes 10:05:10 <blathijs> microblades? Google only tells me about small blade chipped from stone, which isn't what you mean I expect :) 10:05:18 <TrueBrain> hehe 10:07:00 *** roley [~df@S0106001c1092c1e9.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 10:07:16 <roley> this game... is awesome! 10:07:20 <roley> but it's giving me a headache 10:07:41 <TrueBrain> then stop playing it for a while :p 10:08:35 <roley> It's not so much that as I -still- can't figure out how to properly use signals 10:12:53 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:13:36 <roley> every time I think I've got it figured out, the trains go and do something vapidly stupid 10:18:07 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8dd14.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:23:52 *** mib_w8zkxe [5893484c@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 10:25:30 <roley> does anyone have a good grasp on signals and how to properly use them? 10:30:40 <fjb> Use path signals, put them only there where a waiting train doesn't disturb anything (e.g. doesn't block a crossing). 10:34:06 <roley> alright 10:43:05 <roley> jesus, it's like magic 10:44:58 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 10:47:27 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbc24b2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:55:34 *** |Terkhen| [~Terkhen@180.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 10:58:08 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@180.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:02:43 <peter1138> heh, git.openttd.org fails 11:02:59 <Rubidium> in what sense? 11:03:10 <peter1138> ah, i need http://vcs.openttd.org/git/ 11:04:33 * peter1138 ponders bits 1-3 of m5 for level crossing animation 11:06:11 <peter1138> hmm, and i could actually waste space for real random data for rail types 11:06:28 <peter1138> but there'd be no equivalent for road types 11:07:18 <Rubidium> for road types it would be difficult to add it to road stops too 11:07:52 <Rubidium> so I doubt whether it matters that much 11:07:54 <peter1138> no 11:08:02 <peter1138> most things won't use it anyway :) 11:09:59 *** welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.98] has quit [Quit: welshdragon] 11:10:13 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has joined #openttd 11:17:32 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.72.132] has quit [Server closed connection] 11:17:56 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.72.132] has joined #openttd 11:23:45 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:25:11 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 11:26:15 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Flieht, ihr Narren!] 11:29:57 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:33:06 *** |Terkhen| is now known as Terkhen 11:33:43 *** roley [~df@S0106001c1092c1e9.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [] 11:33:58 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:34:25 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 11:37:03 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-71-233-211-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 11:46:29 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm67.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 11:48:55 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-71-233-211-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Goodbye] 11:49:54 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 11:50:40 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-195-157.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:08:46 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.16.209.107] has joined #openttd 12:11:12 *** welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.98] has joined #openttd 12:26:13 *** JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:27:01 *** mib_w8zkxe [5893484c@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 12:28:20 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbc24b2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:15 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:40:23 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@host86-169-136-90.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence.] 12:49:54 *** Hackykid [~quassel@wlan073040.nbw.tue.nl] has joined #openttd 13:00:55 <TrueBrain> Fetched 6371kB in 49710d 6h28min1s (0B/s) 13:02:24 <Rubidium> @calc 2**32/3600/24 13:02:24 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 49710.2696296 13:02:36 *** tdev [~tdev@p57B7F45C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:02:49 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: why did you (or NTP) set your clock back in time? 13:03:27 <Forked> ntpd powered, woowee. 13:04:45 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: dunno, I just did a 'apt-get install vim' 13:04:48 <TrueBrain> which was done after 1 second 13:04:51 <TrueBrain> giving me that as value p 13:05:22 <TrueBrain> at least we know they use a 32bit counter 13:05:41 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 13:05:54 <Rubidium> yeah, 49.7 kinda gave it away :) 13:06:13 <Noldo> it was done so quick that it didn't have time to tick to 0 ? 13:06:55 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 13:07:05 <Rubidium> Noldo: I suspect NTP ran at the time and updated the time, setting it back a bit which means the time (as interpreted by apt) went backwards 13:07:15 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:958b:e739:9e52:91d1] has joined #openttd 13:07:18 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:09:38 *** welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.98] has quit [Quit: welshdragon] 13:15:29 *** Skiddles [~notme@cm67.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 13:21:59 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm67.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:23:45 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 13:23:45 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:48 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 13:31:07 *** `Fuco` [dota.keys@comp68-78.vpn.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 13:32:45 *** `Fuco` [dota.keys@comp68-78.vpn.muni.cz] has quit [] 13:38:06 *** Yexo [~Yexo@38-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 13:38:19 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:41:04 *** Fuco [dota.keys@comp68-78.vpn.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 13:42:22 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm67.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 13:45:21 *** jrepan [~jrepan@80-235-59-131-dsl.trt.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd 13:48:21 *** Fuco [dota.keys@comp68-78.vpn.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:49:03 *** Skiddles [~notme@cm67.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:50:12 *** Fuco [dota.keys@comp68-70.vpn.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 13:53:49 *** jrepan [~jrepan@80-235-59-131-dsl.trt.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Vision[0.9.7-H-090826]: i've been blurred!] 14:00:14 <ccfreak2k> Alright, I think I found the next showstopper. 14:09:04 *** jpm_ [~pekka@kone.suomen4g.fi] has joined #openttd 14:09:18 *** jpm [~pekka@kone.suomen4g.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:21:06 *** jpm [~pekka@kone.suomen4g.fi] has joined #openttd 14:21:18 *** jpm_ [~pekka@kone.suomen4g.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:23:45 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbc24b2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:31:03 *** tdev [~tdev@p57B7F45C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:32:39 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 14:37:49 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:39:57 <Belugas> hello 14:51:25 <SirSquidness> Hey 14:51:31 <SirSquidness> How's things? 14:51:35 *** boekabart_away is now known as boekabart 14:54:13 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-17-131.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 14:55:50 <Belugas> sick thing 14:55:51 <Belugas> in bed 14:55:52 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 14:59:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19094 /trunk/src/ (blitter/factory.hpp network/network_udp.cpp newgrf_gui.cpp): -Codechange: don't check for NULL values before calling StrEmpty 15:01:26 *** zachanima [~zach@90.185.77.237] has joined #openttd 15:04:34 <SirSquidness> That is quite suboptimal 15:07:54 <peter1138> being ill? yes 15:09:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19095 /trunk/src/ (base_media_func.h music.cpp): -Fix: segfault when a baseset has an empty metadata field 15:12:10 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DB81B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:12:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19096 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix: segfault when one of the items in the news_display group in the config file has no value 15:19:27 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-122-132.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #openttd 15:26:47 <planetmaker> oh... 15:26:49 * planetmaker hugs Belugas 15:27:57 *** Hackykid [~quassel@wlan073040.nbw.tue.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:38:51 *** Rygir [~masked@d5153986F.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 15:38:59 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-17-131.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:14 *** boekabart is now known as boekabart_away 15:53:44 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: don't, you might get infected as well 15:54:18 <SirSquidness> I'm pretty sure IRC hugs have a 0 chance of spreading disease when an appropriate firewall is in use by both parties. 15:55:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a pretty lighthearted assumption 15:55:34 <SirSquidness> [citation needed] 16:04:16 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has joined #openttd 16:05:36 *** phalax_ [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:14 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77CDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:46 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77CDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:22:05 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 16:24:06 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: why do you no longer check if 3rdparty dir is there? 16:24:13 <TrueBrain> (r19081) 16:26:35 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: because it's part of all source downloads for ages, and why do it for 3rdparty and not for e.g. network? 16:26:47 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: the problem is hg and git 16:26:51 <Rubidium> it had its uses back when it was svn:external-ised and such 16:27:16 <TrueBrain> owh, it is in SVN now 16:27:18 <TrueBrain> k 16:27:19 <Rubidium> http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/tip/src/3rdparty/squirrel/ <- it's quite there 16:35:53 <Eddi|zuHause> feature request: hide the '?' menu before making a screenshot 16:36:14 <Eddi|zuHause> when making that screenshot from the '?' menu instead of by keyboard 16:37:11 <sparr> Yexo: can you think of any feasible way for such servers to continue to work without a custom binary? requiring custom binaries will cut the playerbase significantly, I think. I currently have 8 or 9 binaries installed, but I think I'm an exception. 16:37:32 <sparr> Yexo: put another way, what is the "right" way to accomplish what those servers are doing? 16:37:43 <Yexo> I don't know what they are doing exactly 16:38:08 <Yexo> a clean option could be to provide a patch to get the functionality they need included in openttd 16:38:36 <Yexo> but most of those server owners don't want to make their changes public, so I don't know if they want to do that 16:38:57 <sparr> the server is building industries, clearing land, adding signs, etc 16:40:38 <Eddi|zuHause> gnah, i ate too much and now i'm getting really tired... 16:41:34 <planetmaker> sparr, have a rich company run by an AI 16:41:40 <planetmaker> a custom programmed AI 16:41:54 <sparr> planetmaker: can that company be excluded from the ranking charts? 16:42:14 <planetmaker> Not client-side 16:42:30 <planetmaker> But those servers are only interested in the players for their high-score 16:42:35 <planetmaker> and there they can do what they want 16:42:45 <sparr> the players are interested in the stats mid-game for strategy 16:42:59 <sparr> one super-rich company would make the company value graph worthless 16:43:13 <planetmaker> can't you re-scale? 16:43:23 <sparr> elaborate? 16:43:23 <planetmaker> you can hide single companies IIRC 16:43:32 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Flieht, ihr Narren!] 16:43:48 <planetmaker> toggle on and off, selectively single companies. 16:44:12 <sparr> ahh, by enabling the Key, I see that now 16:44:38 <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: basically these servers are cheating by circumventing measures that are specifically designed to prevent cheating 16:44:51 <Eddi|zuHause> this can't possibly work cleanly 16:44:55 <sparr> Eddi|zuHause: yes, but their goals are legitimate, and thus there should be a non-cheating route to reach them 16:45:24 <planetmaker> they are. But there are better ways than hacking ;-) 16:45:42 <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: but those server owners have shown no intention to get that functionality into trunk 16:45:45 <sparr> those two projects aren't the only ones running custom servers, i imagine others will be bit by this change as well 16:46:11 <planetmaker> sparr, no one disputes that there are good ideas among those. 16:46:24 <planetmaker> But no server owner ever showed anything which would make it usable for all. 16:46:37 <planetmaker> As such they cannot expect custom-tailored backdoors for them 16:46:40 <sparr> until now they didn't need to, everyone could implement it a different way 16:46:54 <Yexo> <Yexo> a clean option could be to provide a patch to get the functionality they need included in openttd <- That was my first suggestion 16:47:07 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f555b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:47:08 <sparr> Yexo: I'm going to try. 16:47:29 <sparr> there should be some trivial way to allow player-ish commands to be sent from no player. 16:47:37 <planetmaker> sparr, that problem already existed, btw. also from 0.6.x -> 0.7.x 16:47:52 <sparr> the complaint in the bug is that it will cause a null pointer dereference... crazy idea, why not check if the pointer is null first, and don't dereference it if so? 16:48:13 <Yexo> that is also explained there: every command would have to check if the curernt company is valid 16:48:21 <Yexo> instead the check is done now at a single location 16:48:52 <planetmaker> besides, a server could undo that change. 16:49:01 <planetmaker> Though that certainly would not be sensible 16:49:07 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 16:49:14 <Yexo> planetmaker: no, that check is also done on all clients 16:49:16 <sparr> planetmaker: i'm of the impression that undoing just the check would cause segfaults 16:49:54 <planetmaker> hm, ok, then the DoCommand cannot be executed that easily 16:50:06 <frosch123> everytime i join the topic is the same... why don't they just use an ai? 16:50:32 <sparr> frosch123: because that would be a lot more complex (including writing the ai), and would add annoyance for the players (having to filter the AI from charts) 16:50:32 <planetmaker> <planetmaker> sparr, have a rich company run by an AI <-- :-) @ frosch123 16:50:41 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-17-131.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 16:51:08 <sparr> frosch123: and, not being completely familiar with the AI system, I might suggest there are things an AI can't do that a server can fake a player doing? 16:51:14 <Yexo> sparr: you wouldn't have to actually write an AI, just create an Ai company and let the server fake all commands it curerntly does as coming from that AI 16:51:23 <Rubidium> Yexo: I have seen what they did with 0.7.5C, I can only extrapolate that what they do on the server is worse 16:51:54 <Rubidium> and if the ratings aren't enough, just kill the AI and start a new one... instant rating reset :) 16:51:55 <planetmaker> sparr, an AI is a player 16:52:05 <sparr> Yexo: ahh, point taken 16:52:19 <Rubidium> oh shoot, did I just give them the solution to their problem? 16:52:56 <planetmaker> Rubidium, the money issue (if they need some) remains 16:53:20 <Yexo> planetmaker: as long as the maximum loan is enough money that is no problem 16:53:21 <planetmaker> sparr, but then: coming up with a decent patch would be something productive. 16:53:21 <Rubidium> planetmaker: only if they want to construct industries I reckon 16:53:36 <planetmaker> Rubidium, that's what I thought of. I think it was also mentioned 16:54:02 <sparr> ok, ignoring the technical aspects for a moment, let me come at this from a community standpoint... a significant fraction (as much as 30% at times) of the active multiplayer playerbase of openttd plays on goal servers. 16:54:09 <planetmaker> 17:38 <sparr> the server is building industries, clearing land, adding signs, etc <--there 16:55:00 <planetmaker> sparr, and? If there are no patches what should be done? 16:55:04 <Yexo> sparr: that is no argument 16:55:20 <planetmaker> Make it proper and you'll get your support 16:55:29 <Yexo> given the amount of downloads and the amount of multiplayer players online at any given time I'm quite sure the largest part of the openttd players doesn't play multiplayer 16:55:33 <sparr> Rubidium: killing and restarting the AI generates message spam to all of the players. I am unsure, but it might also result in weird player numbering gaps. 16:55:38 <planetmaker> I'm quite sure that there are devs who like ideas of that kind, too 16:55:55 <Rubidium> Yexo: no, it's a very good one... about 0.0001% of the community is grievers and the like, just remove passwords from companies and such because it's only troublesome for the rest 16:56:13 <planetmaker> :-D 16:56:17 *** Skiddles [~notme@cm67.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 16:56:25 <Rubidium> also it's a good reason to remove all packet checking as only 0.0001% wants to do bad things (read: cheat or crash the server) 16:57:55 <sparr> Rubidium: the solutions being suggested here involving an AI are far more hackish than what is being done in 0.7.5. an AI would add useless entries to various menus and charts, would add unwanted message spam (I think), would require more code than the current system 16:58:03 <Yexo> and lets use floats like 0.7.5C, it's very well tested and doesn't desync at all 16:58:31 <Ammler> [17:55] <Yexo> given the amount of downloads and the amount of multiplayer players online at any given time I'm quite sure the largest part of the openttd players doesn't play multiplayer <-- downloading isn't playing ;-) 16:58:48 <sparr> Rubidium: i think .0001% is low for that... i'd say more like .1% (1/1000) 16:59:13 <sparr> Ammler: good point. I have downloaded openttd at least fifty times, mostly for different binaries. I am but one player 16:59:39 <Yexo> sparr: agreed, using an Ai company is a hack. however what is done in 0.7.5 is hack too, no reason to allow that again. I'm not against improving the options for a competitive game in trunk, I'm just not interested enough to write it myself 16:59:49 <sparr> Yexo: what if there was always a dummy company in the pool, that never appeared in any interface? not specific to goal servers, just always there period. 17:00:09 <planetmaker> sparr, that'd mean to remove one possible player slot 17:00:18 <sparr> planetmaker: the AI option does that too, no? 17:00:22 <planetmaker> why should that be done? 17:00:41 <planetmaker> sparr, sure. But why do you want to remove for 70% of the players the option to have one company more? 17:00:43 <planetmaker> Why? 17:00:54 <sparr> I don't think that follows 17:01:11 <planetmaker> Or it cannot have signs 17:01:21 <planetmaker> and other stuff 17:01:24 <sparr> if you are implementing the permanent dummy company and making it ignored by all of the other elements that list companies then you can make it ignored by the slot counter as well 17:01:48 <planetmaker> The problem is the map array 17:02:21 <planetmaker> If you don't want to build anything though... 17:02:38 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm67.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:02:56 <Yexo> if you don't want to build anything you might as well use COMPANY_SPECTATOR 17:03:33 <sparr> building things is less important, but still a factor. 17:03:42 <planetmaker> Yexo, spectator cannot delete anything, build no signs and no industries. A company could 17:04:15 <Yexo> planetmaker: spectator would be able to build signs if someone wrote a patch for it 17:04:26 <planetmaker> sure :-) 17:04:28 <Yexo> deleting stuff and building industries should be company-only indeed 17:04:39 <Yexo> but then that company has to be a valid company, so you remove a normal company slot 17:04:48 <planetmaker> yep 17:05:11 <planetmaker> unless you make it a non-normal one and allow cheating for everyone by means of that company 17:06:15 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 17:06:46 <planetmaker> actually, from my personal perspective the main issue remains: changes just for the sake to allow further hacks which will not become public don't seem proper 17:07:50 <Yexo> completely agreed 17:08:07 <Rubidium> we could just compile all binaries with --disable-network. Then the problem's solved too 17:08:37 <planetmaker> For the sake of our servers I'd have to contradict ;-) 17:08:53 <Ammler> you stole us already the id :-P 17:09:20 <planetmaker> hm... did we use it except in wwottdgd/2? 17:09:40 <Yexo> <Ammler> you stole us already the id :-P <- what is that about? 17:10:16 <Rubidium> Yexo: some pseudorandom, but not really random, garbage that was send to the server and that was then not used at the server 17:10:17 <Ammler> planetmaker: it was a planned feature in Avignon 17:10:24 <planetmaker> he :-) 17:10:36 <Rubidium> Ammler: what were your intentions with it? 17:10:54 <Ammler> we liked to use it like keys. 17:10:54 <planetmaker> The intention was to ban the unique ID in case of (incompetent) grievers 17:11:09 <planetmaker> or to allow access 17:11:50 <Rubidium> ``17. A security system is only as secure as its secret. Beware of pseudo-secrets.'' 17:11:52 <planetmaker> But as it can be written and re-written manually it's of course anything but save for people who know about it 17:12:25 <Ammler> he? You still need a valid key? 17:12:52 *** Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has quit [Server closed connection] 17:12:55 *** Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has joined #openttd 17:12:58 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:13:08 <Rubidium> Ammler: just searching for openttd.cfg and you'll find many many keys 17:13:58 <Ammler> well, it doesn't matter anymore, anyway... 17:14:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19097 /trunk/src/music/bemidi.cpp: -Fix [FS#3610] (r10444): compilation error in the BeMidi driver (jrepan) 17:14:45 <Rubidium> if you want to do it 'right', use proper security stuff 17:15:13 <Ammler> key comaring is quite secure, imo. 17:15:35 <Yexo> it didn't compile since r10444? 17:16:15 <Rubidium> Yexo: yes 17:17:13 <planetmaker> wow. THAT's a time span 17:18:10 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf is a "bemidi"? 17:18:22 <Rubidium> beos' midi 17:18:25 <planetmaker> Rubidium, the idea was to add some kind of identification to the standard clients. But yes, proper security would then be better... but custom clients ;-) 17:18:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't even know we had that :p 17:18:59 <Rubidium> planetmaker: gnutls or so would probably help with that 17:20:18 <Rubidium> then you can use e.g. pgp keys for authentication 17:20:23 <Ammler> well, the unique_id was as secure as joining our irc channel and type !password 17:23:36 <planetmaker> hmpf... Bloody FF :S 17:25:10 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-122-132.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 17:25:15 *** mindlesstux [~Work@adsl-235-163-184.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #openttd 17:25:46 *** heffer [~felix@89.204.153.99] has joined #openttd 17:36:30 *** JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:39:49 *** heffer [~felix@89.204.153.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:44:53 <aber> !password 17:44:53 *** aber was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.] 17:45:02 <planetmaker> :-D 17:45:18 <planetmaker> tralalalala lala I thought they'd never end lalalala 17:45:38 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 17:45:58 <planetmaker> wrong channel, aber ;-) 17:48:06 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9A67.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:50:31 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77CDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77CDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:09:37 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BFD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:10:20 <sparr> planetmaker: "changes just for the sake to allow further hacks which will not become public" <-- you mean like the mod/extension/plugin system that some significant fraction of all games have? 18:15:29 <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: the mod/extension/plugin system in openttd is called newgrf 18:16:07 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.201.8] has quit [Quit: edgepro: Sanity is a full time job.] 18:16:44 <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: and the servers in question specifically did NOT use newgrfs, because they would have to make their modification public that way 18:21:59 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:22:47 *** welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.98] has joined #openttd 18:23:17 *** SHADOW-XIII [~Miranda@cpc2-lewi3-0-0-cust462.bmly.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 18:24:33 *** welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.98] has quit [] 18:25:04 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 18:28:29 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:30:51 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:35:13 *** bart_ [~quassel@83.101.78.25] has joined #openttd 18:35:57 *** Rygir is now known as cumshotbart 18:36:03 *** cumshotbart is now known as Rygir 18:36:17 *** Rygir is now known as cumshot 18:36:20 *** cumshot is now known as Rygir 18:36:37 *** bart_ is now known as cumshotbart 18:39:29 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f555b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:41 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has joined #openttd 18:42:23 *** Skiddles [~notme@cm67.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:46:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r19098 /trunk/src/lang/ (21 files): (log message trimmed) 18:46:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:46:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 101 changes by kasakg 18:46:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 7 changes by VoyagerOne 18:46:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 8 changes by SmatZ 18:46:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 2 changes by habell 18:46:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 4 changes by jpx_ 18:46:57 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aor206.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 18:47:37 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:48:04 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 18:51:25 <ccfreak2k> ffff I broke it again. 18:51:40 <SpComb^> ccfreak2k: git! 18:52:53 <ccfreak2k> :( 18:56:22 *** Hackykid [~quassel@wlan072011.nbw.tue.nl] has joined #openttd 18:59:41 <SHADOW-XIII> I wonder when 32bpp is coming in OTTD to replace 8bpp, after 1.0 19:00:11 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:00:14 <Eddi|zuHause> that is not going to happen 19:00:37 <Eddi|zuHause> a) at best, 32bpp is an ADDITION to 8bpp 19:00:41 <Eddi|zuHause> b) that is already the case 19:00:47 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77CDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:27 *** Hackykid_ [~quassel@dyn-099194.nbw.tue.nl] has joined #openttd 19:02:40 <SHADOW-XIII> I see, hmm, certainly replacing whole 8bit in official release for 32bit would draw a lot of attention as the graphics looks really nice, afterwards 8 bit could be treated as 32bit replacement for slower devices 19:02:49 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77CDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:05:14 <Eddi|zuHause> SHADOW-XIII: the 32bpp artists are way too uncoordinated, i am not expecting a full and coherent 32bpp release anytime soon 19:07:53 *** Hackykid [~quassel@wlan072011.nbw.tue.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:08:01 <SHADOW-XIII> how much % of original graphic is remade for already ? 50 ? 90 ? 19:08:02 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:08:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77CDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:11 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77CDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:10:38 <SHADOW-XIII> changing topic, anyone tried new Opera 10.50 beta ? it is amazing, still little unstable but stable enough for me to move to it as my primary browser now 19:11:56 <SpComb^> don't all the geeks use Chrome these days 19:12:20 <Eddi|zuHause> SHADOW-XIII: the % complete cannot be specified precisely because they are uncoordinated 19:13:00 <SHADOW-XIII> SpComb^: chrome is weak, I cannot even change keyboard shortcuts, and new Opera is faster even than chrome 19:13:59 <SHADOW-XIII> new JavaScript engine is cracking balls men :P ... it's like 5-7 times faster than any other browser in Lifehacker test 19:21:28 <aber> other than Chrome, Safari and Firefox 19:23:34 <Xaroth> tests are biased 19:29:25 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:51 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 19:29:52 <ccfreak2k> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=123903&mode=view Could this possibly be zoomed in any further? 19:30:13 *** Splex [~splex@n219078137059.netvigator.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:30:17 <Rubidium> not with that patch 19:30:40 <Rubidium> anyhow, the trains looks more wrong when zoomed in that far 19:30:50 *** Splex [~splex@n219078137059.netvigator.com] has joined #openttd 19:31:23 <SpComb^> mm, big pixels 19:32:05 <Rubidium> SHADOW-XIII: they don't even know how many sprites they need to replace, so giving a percentage won't work (estimates range from ~3000 to ~10000) 19:32:46 <Rubidium> and that's only for one zoom level; they 'want' to make graphics for at least 2 and maybe 3 levels, so... 10 to 30 thousand 19:34:07 <Rubidium> not to mention that they don't have exactly a stable specification 19:34:34 <ccfreak2k> Alright, I think _DEBUG causes the binary to not work on the cube./ 19:35:05 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 19:35:29 *** SHADOW-XIII [~Miranda@cpc2-lewi3-0-0-cust462.bmly.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, THE BEST ! - http://miranda-im.org] 19:39:00 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-71-233-211-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 19:39:34 <PeterT> Hi all 19:40:22 *** JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:41:14 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@host86-169-136-90.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:53:57 <sparr> Eddi|zuHause: I am unclear how this sort of modification would fit into the capabilities of a newgrf 19:54:22 <ccfreak2k> I think libdb and/or gdb cause all other threads to not run while the main thread is being debugged. 19:54:43 <ccfreak2k> And then LWP_JoinThread() gets called, effectively causing the cube to hang. 19:55:59 *** Hackykid_ [~quassel@dyn-099194.nbw.tue.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:56:05 *** Hackykid [~quassel@dyn-099194.nbw.tue.nl] has joined #openttd 20:05:41 *** Hackykid_ [~quassel@dyn-099194.nbw.tue.nl] has joined #openttd 20:05:41 *** Hackykid [~quassel@dyn-099194.nbw.tue.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:11:00 *** Lego399 [~Lego399@0x5da46d23.ojnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 20:11:42 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:17:21 <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: that only means one of two things: adapt the modificatiions so that they can be covered by newgrfs, or adapt the newgrf spec that it covers the modifications 20:19:13 *** Hackykid_ [~quassel@dyn-099194.nbw.tue.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:19:22 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host32-208-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:19:59 <Wolf01> hi! 20:20:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77CDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:55 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77CDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:20:56 <PeterT> Hi Wolf01 20:21:32 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.201.8] has joined #openttd 20:23:37 <__ln__> night Wolf01! 20:23:40 *** mindlesstux [~Work@adsl-235-163-184.clt.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:23:54 <peter1138> hmm 20:23:57 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-143-78.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:24:01 <peter1138> 2 random bits is probably enough? 20:26:34 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77CDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:52 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77CDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:33:36 <PeterT> English isn't in the Game Options? 20:34:00 <PeterT> I have the english_US.lng file in /lang 20:36:39 <aber> hmm? English(UK) English(US) 20:37:06 <PeterT> No, those aren't available 20:37:14 <PeterT> but most of the other languages are there 20:38:43 <aber> Probably the language monster. 20:39:08 <aber> You need to offer him cookies. 20:39:10 <PeterT> any relevant answers? 20:39:21 <aber> What did you do? 20:39:26 <ctibor|spi> learn french then .-) 20:39:41 *** ctibor|spi is now known as ctibor 20:40:55 <aber> i vote for "Lëtzebuergesch" 20:44:57 <aber> but i believe "Luxembourgish" should be the correct spelling inside the menu. 20:45:09 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.201.8] has quit [Quit: edgepro: There are two kinds of people, those who finish what they start and so on.] 20:46:07 <ctibor> they have their own language? 20:48:29 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Untenmaa, Utm AÂœ - Aja 35 Odota seis] 20:48:40 <Eddi|zuHause> they claim that it's an own language 20:48:45 <aber> yes, it's like really awkward german. But i like how they take german. 20:48:51 <Eddi|zuHause> everybody else says it's a dialect of german 20:50:27 <Eddi|zuHause> even though a lot of EU facilities are in luxembourg, the EU does not consider luxembourgish an official language of the EU 20:51:20 <Eddi|zuHause> 90% of the population there also speak french and german 20:52:38 <Eddi|zuHause> in the dialect spectrum, it's classified as "MittelfrÀnkisch" 20:52:52 <ctibor> I see 20:53:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19099 /trunk/src/ (pathfinder/opf/opf_ship.cpp table/airporttile_ids.h): -Doc: two files had the wrong name in the @file comment 20:54:24 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BFD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:55:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (with the "Francs" being one of the major germanic tribes after the fall of the roman empire who moved into former roman territories) 20:55:26 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbc24b2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:39 <__ln__> Luxembourg is a surprisingly french-speaking place. 20:58:59 <Eddi|zuHause> well, french is the "office" language 20:59:22 <Eddi|zuHause> luxembourgish is the "popular" language 20:59:41 <Eddi|zuHause> after german fell somewhat unpopular during WWII 21:01:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the majorly french speaking part of luxembourg was transferred to belgium somewhere in the 19th century 21:01:54 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@host86-169-136-90.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:02:25 *** HackaLittleBit [~Hans@87-196-221-66.net.novis.pt] has joined #openttd 21:02:36 <HackaLittleBit> evenin 21:02:47 <PeterT> Hello HackaLittleBit 21:03:27 <HackaLittleBit> STR_CONTENT_DETAIL_UPDATE gives me compile error in french.txt 21:04:20 <Yexo> just wait untill the language commit tomorrow 21:04:27 <HackaLittleBit> ok 21:04:56 *** Lego399 [~Lego399@0x5da46d23.ojnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:05:53 <HackaLittleBit> yexo: do you have any idear what would be a reasonable penalty if train is longer than platform? 21:06:12 <Yexo> the current penalty? 21:06:19 <Yexo> or why is it unreasonable? 21:07:51 <HackaLittleBit> Because of the long loading time also the rating goes down 21:08:02 <planetmaker> That's sensible, isn't it? 21:08:12 <HackaLittleBit> no 21:08:22 <planetmaker> I'd rate the company also bad, if I'd have to crawl through the mud to the wagon 21:08:34 <HackaLittleBit> passenger yes 21:08:46 <HackaLittleBit> pragnent women also yes 21:08:51 <HackaLittleBit> oil no 21:08:58 <Yexo> the rating doesn't go down if you have a long loading time 21:09:00 <planetmaker> oh, coal cannot complain. But if I order coal and they drop it the next street, I'd give it a bad rating, too 21:09:13 <planetmaker> Yexo: indirectly: less frequent service 21:09:17 <HackaLittleBit> :) 21:09:44 <Yexo> well the less frequent service is a choice you make 21:09:59 <planetmaker> with slow loading there's a lower max. throughput. 21:10:19 <planetmaker> But then I don't understand what's wrong with the current situation either 21:10:20 <Yexo> that's also a penalty for your own choices 21:10:27 <planetmaker> yup :-) 21:10:38 <HackaLittleBit> not only that, long trains disrupt trafffic flow 21:10:54 <HackaLittleBit> alsothats a penalty 21:10:58 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@host86-169-136-90.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:10:59 <Yexo> so the real question is: why are you making your trains so long? 21:11:15 <HackaLittleBit> because I like them 21:12:48 <HackaLittleBit> but did you see the code? 21:13:22 <Yexo> not recently 21:13:22 <HackaLittleBit> unloading_time += (overhang * unloading_time << 1) / 8; 21:13:48 <HackaLittleBit> unloading time is something like 40 or 20 21:14:40 <Yexo> now I'm only wondering why that line doesn't read: unloading_time += (overhang * unloading_time) / 4; 21:14:53 <HackaLittleBit> ah 21:15:36 *** Bluelight [~Ivan@9.80-202-82.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 21:16:02 <HackaLittleBit> do some debugging and you will find it is rediculous 21:16:07 <Eddi|zuHause> the use of << is probably against coding style there 21:17:14 <HackaLittleBit> eddy I checked that and in assembler it shifts alsa so that is faster 21:18:15 <Bluelight> Now I'm just witing for a new router again, and then my server will be up and running.. :) 21:18:39 <Eddi|zuHause> every modern compiler can replace *2 with a shift. using * over << in arithmetic expressions increases readability 21:19:23 <HackaLittleBit> never checked that but I will:) 21:23:05 <peter1138> Yexo, 1/8th being the shortest length of a vehicle 21:23:19 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f555b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 21:23:46 <HackaLittleBit> I think it is half a tile 21:24:08 <HackaLittleBit> 2 wagons per tile 21:24:21 <HackaLittleBit> 16/2 21:24:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yay for magic numbers ;) 21:24:46 <ccfreak2k> What's the order of operations for multiply and shift? 21:25:10 <Yexo> that doesn't matter here 21:25:12 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: shifting is a multiplying operation, so they likely have same priority 21:26:17 <ccfreak2k> Also, how well does openttd work with thread_none? 21:26:44 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: afair you can disable threads by a configure option 21:26:59 <ccfreak2k> I'm using a custom makefile. 21:27:02 <aber> nope, ist (*/%)(+-)(<<>>) 21:27:05 <ccfreak2k> Unless you mean "game config". 21:27:19 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: doesn't remove the "#ifdef"s 21:28:01 <HackaLittleBit> yexo the rating goes realy down with long loading time 21:28:09 <ccfreak2k> You mean NO_THREADS? :) 21:28:24 <frosch123> ccfreak2k: threads are used during map generation, autosave, and sdl video rendering. maybe also sound 21:29:17 <ccfreak2k> frosch123, what I meant by my question is, would disabling multithreaded support be some kind of mortal sin and cause my build to break in unspeakable ways? 21:29:18 <Rubidium> ./configure --without-thread 21:29:33 <frosch123> likely not 21:29:34 <Rubidium> ./configure --without-threads 21:30:00 <Rubidium> no idea whether it actually works though 21:30:11 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: no, it should not break anything, but you lose some gimmics like progress bar during world generation and saving in the background 21:30:31 <ccfreak2k> That's ok, I'll deal with it. 21:31:27 <ccfreak2k> I -really- should figure out what's causing it to hang, though. 21:31:27 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-122-132.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #openttd 21:32:29 <Rubidium> yup, --without-threads seems to work fine 21:32:52 *** CIA-1 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [Server closed connection] 21:32:57 *** CIA-9 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd 21:39:50 <ccfreak2k> Also, fun fact: in my current builds, it takes about 10-15 seconds to reach the first GenerateWorld() call in ttd_main(). 21:40:23 <peter1138> speedy 21:40:35 <Rubidium> that's better than my laptop (if I include booting) 21:40:37 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aor206.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 21:44:17 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:48:07 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-156-201.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 21:48:24 *** Bluelight [~Ivan@9.80-202-82.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:48:24 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-71-233-211-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Goodbye] 21:50:00 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:50:05 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:51:11 <frosch123> ah, the revision number has passed the number of missing translations 21:53:53 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.16.209.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:55:01 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.10.92.171] has joined #openttd 21:57:05 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has joined #openttd 21:57:25 <sparr> Eddi|zuHause: that would be a huge undertaking, to add an entire new class of newgrfs (something like "Game Type", maybe) 21:59:08 <sparr> you would need an entirely new scripting engine of some sort, among other large tasks 22:00:17 <SmatZ> frosch123: just add new language ;) 22:02:11 <ccfreak2k> HOLY HELL 22:02:13 <ccfreak2k> IT WOKR 22:02:14 <ccfreak2k> S 22:03:09 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:03:22 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 22:03:47 <SmatZ> hello Nite_Owl 22:03:57 <frosch123> just which? 22:04:11 <Nite_Owl> Hello SmatZ 22:05:35 <Wolf01> 'night all 22:05:40 <Nite_Owl> I take it you are aware of the problems with today's Windows 64bit nightly ?? 22:05:44 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host32-208-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:05:53 <HackaLittleBit> nite 22:06:16 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: I think we aren't 22:06:33 <Yexo> Nite_Owl: only if you mean the french translation 22:06:52 <SmatZ> there is known problem with win32 binaries hanging when map generating is cancelled 22:07:38 <Nite_Owl> not sure of the cause but once applied the game will not even start - faults right off the bat 22:08:11 <Yexo> please open a bug report at bugs.openttd.org and attach the crash.log/crash.dmp files 22:08:25 <HackaLittleBit> Smatz: since when do you know that? 22:08:31 <SmatZ> HackaLittleBit: today 22:08:39 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:08:45 <HackaLittleBit> tnx 22:08:46 <SpComb^> ccfreak2k: unlikely! 22:09:07 <Nite_Owl> I did notice that the zip file did NOT contain the usual number of files - 71 as opposed to the usual 84 22:09:27 <SmatZ> missing lang files? 22:09:40 <ccfreak2k> SpComb^, you got me, I haven't verified that it works 100% yet. 22:09:58 <ccfreak2k> However, I got this lovely screenshot: http://glasnost.underwares.org/images/fb2742cc_vlcsnap-2010-02-11-14h03m41s89.png 22:10:07 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:10:18 <SmatZ> ccfreak2k: great :) 22:10:21 <Nite_Owl> not sure - I only noticed as it ran through my virus scanner 22:10:50 <SmatZ> ccfreak2k: why not 1.0.0? 22:10:59 <ccfreak2k> SmatZ, it's still in beta right? 22:11:16 <SmatZ> yes 22:11:26 <Yexo> in he r19098 win64 zip are only 32 language files, in the r19068 files there are 46 language files 22:11:41 <ccfreak2k> That would be why. 22:11:52 <ccfreak2k> As soon as 1.0 is finalized, I'll port my patch over. 22:12:14 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:12:20 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:12:32 <Yexo> the french language file looks corrupted (43kk instead of +- 100kb) and all languages alfabetically before french are missing 22:12:36 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: crashes for me on win64 too 22:13:07 <Yexo> same holds for the win32 zip file 22:13:35 <Yexo> and also a crash 22:13:45 <Yexo> I guess due to the corrupted french language file 22:14:03 <frosch123> http://master.binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r19098/logs/windows-win64-compile.log <- matches actually 22:14:03 *** mib_b1vq3b [5893484c@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:14:09 <Nite_Owl> I know there were Windows compiling problems yesterday so I thought this just might be an extension of that 22:14:22 <frosch123> it did not compile any languages after french 22:15:07 <SmatZ> right 22:15:18 <SmatZ> so it fails because it tries to load czech.lng, but it is missing? 22:15:24 <SmatZ> whoa :-p 22:16:31 <frosch123> so Nite_Owl, you have to pick one of the other languages :) 22:16:50 <SmatZ> hmm 22:16:54 <SmatZ> but it doesn't crash on linux 22:16:59 <SmatZ> when I remove czech.lng 22:17:08 <SmatZ> it would be win-specific, and that's strange :) 22:17:09 <frosch123> maybe english.lng is more important 22:17:35 <SmatZ> even if I remove english.lng 22:17:40 <frosch123> or the broken french 22:17:42 <SmatZ> it starts in... finnish? 22:17:44 <ccfreak2k> Sound works. 22:17:50 <Yexo> http://paste.openttd.org/221417 callstack 22:18:02 <Nite_Owl> I would if I could get it to start 22:18:18 <SmatZ> oh 22:18:35 *** Cybertinus is now known as Guest1741 22:18:49 <Yexo> it's segfaulting because the french language file is only half-complete 22:19:05 <frosch123> so Nite_Owl, try deleting french.lng 22:19:18 <Nite_Owl> I reverted back to 19068 already 22:19:38 <HackaLittleBit> my compilation stops at line 1813 in french.txt 22:20:30 <Nite_Owl> but I can give it a shot for the sake of finding out what is wrong 22:21:00 <Yexo> the problem is already fixed in wt, just wait until the language commit tomorrow 22:22:04 <Nite_Owl> not a problem - I think I can hold out until then 22:22:27 <Yexo> you can also just delete the french language file and play with a compiled language 22:23:34 *** Alpraaz [Jonis@c-55f970d5.027-27-67626721.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:24:13 <Nite_Owl> I never use any language other than English anyway 22:24:20 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 22:24:34 <Yexo> the english language file wasn't complied in the latest nightly so that's a problem 22:24:58 <frosch123> night 22:25:02 <SmatZ> just removing french.lng solves the problem 22:25:03 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f555b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:25:14 <SmatZ> but OTTD starts in Estonian (?) 22:25:29 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 22:25:46 <Yexo> all linux builds have valid language files for all languages and no language file for french 22:25:53 <Yexo> that seems like the proper behavior 22:26:29 <Rubidium> blaim MSVC :) 22:26:30 <SmatZ> still the fact OTTD crashes is disturbing 22:26:54 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:26:54 *** [com]buster is now known as [alt]buster 22:27:22 <Nite_Owl> as long as you are aware of and have fixed the problem that is all that maters. I am more than happy with that and will wait for tomorrow's nightly 22:27:50 <Rubidium> to stop it from crashing you'd probably need to add some metadata to the language file to check for validity, i.e. a checksum 22:28:19 <Rubidium> besides that, I think strgen should remove the file if it fails to compile it 22:28:30 <Nite_Owl> although I do seem to be the bringing of ill news the past two days 22:28:47 <Nite_Owl> *bringer 22:28:49 <SmatZ> yeah, shot the messenger :-) 22:29:38 <Rubidium> oh, someone already reported it as a bug :) 22:30:08 <Rubidium> too bad I don't really have the time to fix that stuff 22:37:13 * Eddi|zuHause listens to "MIAAUUU" in stereo 22:38:16 <SmatZ> http://paste.openttd.org/221418 impressive, broken french.lng managed to crash valgrind :) 22:38:35 <SmatZ> I will spend some time with it ;) 22:41:49 <SmatZ> ReadFileToMem(_dynlang.ent[lang_index].file, &len, 200000); 22:42:10 <SmatZ> maxsize == 200000, greek.lng is reaching that limit :) 22:42:30 <ccfreak2k> Timed. 22:42:51 <ccfreak2k> It takes 36.5 seconds for OpenTTD to go from start to title screen. 22:43:29 <SmatZ> 24 seconds generating empty map + loading intro? 22:43:44 <ccfreak2k> The map probably takes about 10 of those seconds. 22:44:04 <SmatZ> you have debug build, right? 22:44:18 <ccfreak2k> It's compiled with -g -Os -DNDEBUG. 22:45:03 <ccfreak2k> It also doesn't init network or AI. 22:50:03 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BFD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:07:22 *** rait [~rait@82.131.24.220.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 23:08:03 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-195-157.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Something strange must have happened...] 23:08:17 <rait> r19098 crashes on startup. is this reported? 23:08:24 <Yexo> yse 23:08:39 <Yexo> remove french.lng from the lang directory and it works 23:08:58 <rait> okay 23:09:46 <rait> somehow my default language has changed 23:10:11 <Yexo> all languages alphabetically before french aren't included in the last nightly 23:10:52 <rait> including english? thats bad 23:11:55 <ccfreak2k> Well, that's the thing about nightly builds. 23:11:57 <ccfreak2k> Sometimes they break. 23:12:12 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 23:12:22 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 23:12:27 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 23:12:40 <rait> so ... i fired up beta4 and it's still spanish. how do i change it? 23:13:22 <rait> never mind ... 23:14:25 <rait> is only the latest nightly affected? 23:14:45 <Rubidium> only the nightly build with MSVC 23:15:59 <HackaLittleBit> not only also with msys 23:16:39 <Rubidium> true, but way way less than MSVC 23:17:43 <HackaLittleBit> you mean slower? 23:17:51 <Rubidium> i.e. msys builds (or all non MSVC builds) only crash if you used French, MSVC builds crash if the chosen langauge was alphabetically less than or equal to french 23:18:57 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9A67.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:19:12 <HackaLittleBit> I took french out before compiling with msys 23:21:55 *** HackaBit [~Hans@87.196.221.66] has joined #openttd 23:22:07 <PeterT> Visual studio up and running! 23:23:15 *** Guest1741 [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:15 <PeterT> ccfreak2k: Congrats on getting ti to work on GameCube! 23:25:24 <PeterT> too bad no one has a gamecube anymore 23:25:33 <ccfreak2k> Au contraire. 23:25:40 <ccfreak2k> It would run perfectly well on the Wii as well. 23:27:39 *** HackaLittleBit [~Hans@87-196-221-66.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:37:45 <sparr> Is it possible for a newgrf to affect vehicles from all other GRFs? cost, running cost, speed, etc 23:37:45 *** HackaLittleBit [~Hans@87.196.221.66] has joined #openttd 23:37:48 *** HackaLittleBit [~Hans@87.196.221.66] has left #openttd [] 23:41:08 *** HackaLittleBit [~Hans@87.196.221.66] has joined #openttd 23:43:49 *** HackaBit [~Hans@87.196.221.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:43:50 <Rubidium> sparr: possibly, although it might get tricky with vehicle pools 23:47:10 <Terkhen> good night 23:47:15 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@180.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 23:48:05 <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: a grf can change vehicle basecosts globally if it doesn't define any vehicles itself 23:50:09 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:50:24 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-143-78.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:52:55 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:58:39 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Flieht, ihr Narren!]