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Lapsus [~Lapsusant@H78.C194.cci.switchworks.net] has joined #openttd 00:42:58 <Lapsus> Hello! :3 00:43:28 <PeterT> D: !olleH 00:45:44 <Lapsus> :p 01:04:21 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-104-185.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:06:37 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:07:06 <Eddi|zuHause> "did you mean ¡Holá!?" 01:07:33 <Chrill> Sà 01:15:25 *** fjb is now known as Guest771 01:15:26 *** fjb [~frank@p5485CF48.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:20:43 *** Guest771 [~frank@p5485FE6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:24:27 *** lllugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d0ba.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:09 *** PeterT is now known as Sn2 01:38:11 *** Sn2 is now known as SN2 01:38:12 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:38:23 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 01:38:43 *** SN2 is now known as PeterT 01:43:01 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 01:51:40 *** Lapsus [~Lapsusant@H78.C194.cci.switchworks.net] has quit [Quit: fuuuuuu-] 02:29:53 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 02:36:57 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:42:53 *** caribou| [~caribou@201.139-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 02:49:55 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 02:56:57 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:11:25 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 03:12:26 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d47e:b419:58b5:df69] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:16:57 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:30:03 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 03:37:27 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping 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[~Administr@88.130.183.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:53:09 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-87-208.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:53:22 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 04:55:23 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-112-65.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 04:55:24 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 04:56:03 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76E7A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:56:26 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76D8F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:57:30 *** Eoin_ [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 04:57:31 *** Eoin [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:57:53 *** Eoin_ is now known as Eoin 05:01:37 *** Eoin [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 05:07:36 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:10:33 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 05:11:54 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:12:01 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 05:17:18 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:45:23 *** jony123 [~jb@125-238-62-168.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #openttd 05:45:58 <jony123> Is there an easy way on linux cli to setup the deicated server game? 05:53:31 *** kuer [~kuer@chello089077209009.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:06:22 <Forked> if you can start the game on something with a GUI, you can set all settings there and copy the config file over to the server 06:55:32 *** heffer [~felix@mue-88-130-91-163.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 06:59:52 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@77.106.154.219] has joined #openttd 07:01:07 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.152.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:01:35 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 07:02:36 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC72E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:16:51 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:21:08 *** Starling [~itzdabug@adsl-99-164-109-25.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has left #openttd [] 07:23:37 *** asnoehu [~thok@cc64025-c.hnglo1.ov.home.nl] has quit [] 07:29:52 *** asnoehu [~thok@cc64025-c.hnglo1.ov.home.nl] has joined #openttd 07:34:33 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 07:35:12 *** George is now known as Guest810 07:41:10 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn13-2-0-cust478.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:41:51 *** Guest707 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:47:33 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:59:12 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 07:59:43 *** ptr [~peter@p249-n239.kthopen.kth.se] has joined #openttd 08:06:03 *** ptr [~peter@p249-n239.kthopen.kth.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 08:08:52 *** asnoehu is now known as tycoondeomon 08:16:11 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:17:16 *** tycoondeomon is now known as tycoondemon 08:35:42 <dihedral> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc 08:37:18 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:39:23 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:41:41 *** ptr [~peter@p249-n239.kthopen.kth.se] has joined #openttd 08:41:55 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 08:49:24 <potrzebie> Cool :) 08:52:25 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:52:26 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 09:01:51 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-221-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 09:03:54 <peter1138> ah, newzbin finally gone 09:07:12 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:576:800b:7594:61de] has joined #openttd 09:07:15 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 09:12:35 *** TB is now known as TrueBrain 09:13:21 *** jony123 [~jb@125-238-62-168.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:17:38 *** ptr [~peter@p249-n239.kthopen.kth.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 09:17:40 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:30:21 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC72E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!] 09:30:50 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:35:27 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has joined #openttd 09:38:11 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8cd7e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:39:43 *** amalloy [~Alan@c-67-180-16-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 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[By Admin Redirectionally Leftology]] 11:41:01 *** Redirect_Left [~rdl@5ad09081.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 11:42:41 *** Jolteon [~jolt@ip04.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 11:43:14 *** Redirect_Left [~rdl@5ad09081.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 12:23:14 *** fjb [~frank@p5485CF48.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:51:47 <Belugas> hello 12:52:59 <Goulp> Gday overseas 12:55:02 <Belugas> La mer... qu'on voit chanter... 12:55:03 <Belugas> blablabla 12:55:09 <Belugas> hello Goulp :) 12:55:23 <peter1138> glub glub glub 12:55:45 <peter1138> MEAT BEAT 12:55:47 <peter1138> MANIFESTO 12:58:19 <Belugas> this is a land of confusion ;) 13:07:25 <peter1138> home sweet home 13:13:16 <Belugas> by the sea 13:15:58 <Belugas> Bytes Hey! 13:16:19 <Belugas> look what can be found on the waves of the digital ocean... 13:18:02 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 13:18:42 *** George is now known as Guest847 13:19:12 *** fjb [~frank@p5485FA13.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:19:48 <fjb> Moin. 13:24:55 *** Guest810 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:33:09 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-221-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 13:33:09 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@77.106.154.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:12 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@ip-10-137-106-77.eidsiva.net] has joined #openttd 13:36:22 *** borgfish [~bla@141.12.66.253] has joined #openttd 13:36:24 <borgfish> hi 13:36:47 <borgfish> i would need help configuring my dedicated server. 13:36:56 <borgfish> is there a setting for a max. number of oil rigs? 13:37:00 *** JostVice [~jostvice@85.136.129.22.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 13:37:39 <Rubidium> not directly 13:38:16 <Rubidium> though if you haven't enabled "industries close together" and "multiple industries of same type in a town", then it's limited to the number of coastal towns 13:38:58 <planetmaker> also: why is it important to limit the number of oil rigs? 13:39:06 <planetmaker> What's the real purpose you try to follow? 13:39:26 <borgfish> well the game shall run for several hundret years and they keep spawning, its a mess regarding density 13:39:51 <planetmaker> well, they also go again, if they're not serviced 13:39:57 <Rubidium> so you've enabled those settings I've mentioned earlier 13:40:03 <planetmaker> ^ yep 13:40:22 <planetmaker> borgfish, more of a problem are power plans, banks and water towers 13:40:28 *** APTX_ [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 13:40:29 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:40:30 <planetmaker> they never close down, once spawned. 13:40:33 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:40:45 <planetmaker> Thus setting "one industry per kind and town" might then really make sense 13:40:57 <borgfish> yes power plants are a problem, but not that ugly like the riggs 13:41:17 <planetmaker> :-) Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess :-) 13:42:15 <borgfish> :o) 13:43:34 <borgfish> never_expire_vehicles means they wont warn if old ? 13:44:24 <Ammler> warn if old is a client setting... 13:44:46 <borgfish> i have seen it in my client while playing on the server, but i could not switch it ? 13:45:01 <Ammler> news settings 13:45:31 <Ammler> oh planetmaker/andy, if you cleanup settings, news settings might be another window, which needs merging ;-) 13:45:41 <planetmaker> :-) yes, I guess 13:45:52 <planetmaker> But that's quite low on that list tbh 13:46:08 <borgfish> how is the news setting named ? i cant identify it on my german openttd 13:46:13 <Eddi|zuHause> <borgfish> never_expire_vehicles means they wont warn if old ? <-- no, it means you can buy vehicles forever 13:46:18 <planetmaker> Nachrichten 13:46:32 <planetmaker> borgfish, it's available ingame by the newspaper symbol in the task bar 13:46:40 <borgfish> rat / informationen zu fahrzeugen der firma 13:47:10 <planetmaker> feel free to propose translation improvements ;-) 13:47:28 <borgfish> how is it named in english ? the warn if old option ? 13:47:46 <planetmaker> I think exactly that "warn, if vehicle gets old" 13:48:01 <Mazur> It's part of all vehicle related news items. 13:48:05 <Rubidium> I hope s/if/when/ :) 13:48:16 <planetmaker> hehe :-) True that 13:48:46 <borgfish> well i have like 15 options in my news menue, and if switched on, they come as newspaper 13:49:03 <planetmaker> set them to ticker ;-) 13:49:07 <borgfish> but the warn if old thing comes as little box with the running train inside e.g. 13:49:21 <borgfish> so i guess its not a news setting ? 13:49:35 <Mazur> "advice" 13:49:50 <Mazur> In english. 13:50:17 <dihedral> Looks like i can make the weekend in june :-) 13:51:06 <dihedral> planetmaker, what do you prefer? people staying at your house or people getting a room 13:51:20 <dihedral> if you want people to get a room, do you suggest anything? 13:51:30 <borgfish> when i goto the "wheel" button 3rd top left, - advanced options, under vehicles: i can switch on and of the aging 13:51:36 <borgfish> while playing on my server, i cant 13:51:42 <borgfish> so i thought its a server setting 13:51:57 *** KouDy [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 13:57:39 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DAFA5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:00:41 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 14:07:38 <planetmaker> dihedral, I don't mind people staying at my house. But I'm actually sure that there are too many people in order to have that work for everyone 14:08:22 <planetmaker> Hotels in the direct vicinity of my place is a bit difficult. A quite good and not cheap hotel is the "Hotel am Wollmarkt". 14:08:31 *** orudge_ [~orudge@75-149-149-225-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #openttd 14:08:51 <planetmaker> It's a former YCMA hotel which offers nights for about 30⬠IIRC 14:09:07 <planetmaker> the youth hostel unfortunately is diametrally at the opposite end of town 14:09:45 *** heffer [~felix@mue-88-130-91-163.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 14:10:05 <planetmaker> hm... prices are actually a bit higher than I thought: 14:10:11 <planetmaker> http://www.hotelamwollmarkt.de/pages/hotel.htm 14:10:51 <planetmaker> So 50⬠or 80⬠for double 14:11:56 <planetmaker> I'm actually thinking right now whether I should try to reserve sufficient room in a nice pub - and make a public announcement. 14:12:16 <planetmaker> That's then not BBQ - but it will make rather sure that it's easy to serve all the people .-) 14:13:14 <planetmaker> hm... I just got an idea :-) 14:14:31 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 14:15:41 <planetmaker> what does the average participant of such convention expect it to be like? 14:15:56 <planetmaker> just a huge get-together with some nice food? 14:16:13 <borgfish> you need strippers ! (lol) 14:17:22 *** Tennel [~Tennel@port-ip-213-211-212-60.reverse.mdcc-fun.de] has joined #openttd 14:18:00 *** Eoin [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:18:56 <yorick> and loads of wifi 14:19:03 <__ln__> get-together with food sounds good 14:19:42 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:21:33 <fjb> OpenTTD get-together in Braunschweig? 14:25:41 <planetmaker> jo 14:27:22 <SirSquidness> Why can't you guys live in Australia? :( 14:28:00 <Rubidium> because the stupidity of the government of Australia? 14:28:02 <Eddi|zuHause> because everything is upside down there 14:28:07 <planetmaker> I have the feeling that it's getting bigger than might be comfortable at my home due to crowdedness. 14:28:27 <planetmaker> So... rather a pub or a (youth) convention centre? 14:31:02 <orudge_> so, you're not all coming to the TT meet then this year? 14:31:09 <orudge_> which I'm sure several of you said you would do last year if you'd had more notice :p 14:31:15 *** Choco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DAFA5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:31:39 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DAFA5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Write error: connection closed] 14:31:39 *** Choco-Banana-Man is now known as Coco-Banana-Man 14:38:16 <Eddi|zuHause> orudge_: if it's in the UK, that is fairly unlikely 14:38:54 <orudge_> compared to, say, where? are you unwilling to travel outside of your own country, or just unwilling to travel to the UK? :p 14:39:03 <Rubidium> orudge_: getting to the plane would take longer (and cost most) than getting to Braunschweig 14:39:20 <Eddi|zuHause> orudge_: i'm unable to pay for a far journey 14:39:35 <SirSquidness> Eddi|zuHause: nuh uh, it's you guys that are upside down! :< 14:40:01 <Eddi|zuHause> SirSquidness: then you're downside up! 14:40:13 <orudge_> http://flourish.org/upsidedownmap/diversophy-large.jpg 14:40:14 <orudge_> true that! 14:40:20 <orudge_> Eddi|zuHause: useless! :p 14:40:31 <orudge_> ah well, we did have a few Europeans come over to London in 2008 14:40:36 <tycoondemon> 16:21:33,20102005 <fjb> OpenTTD get-together in Braunschweig? 14:40:37 <orudge_> even the esteemed patchman 14:40:42 <tycoondemon> cool 14:40:47 <SirSquidness> Eddi|zuHause: and don't you forget it! :D 14:40:49 <tycoondemon> thats like close by 14:41:24 <orudge_> heh 14:41:24 <orudge_> http://cultivatedpages.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/upside-down-world-map2.gif 14:41:27 <planetmaker> hm... I really should make a forum thread I guess. And get a place to hold it other than my home which is already filled with people who already like to come ;-) 14:41:29 <orudge_> this one even puts Australia smack bang in the middle 14:42:30 <Rubidium> oh, it only costs me like 150 euros to get to/from Edinburgh and sleep two nights in a cardboard box 14:42:40 <orudge_> quite reasonable, eh :D 14:43:00 <SirSquidness> Cardboard boxes are so expensive these days. 14:43:01 <orudge_> the exchange rate is reasonably favourable to you Euro-types at the moment, I guess 14:44:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i have an idea! 14:44:07 <planetmaker> hm... or we have BBQ at our institute... 14:44:15 <Eddi|zuHause> hold the meet on kamtschatka, that's equally far from everybody! 14:44:23 <planetmaker> :-D 14:47:12 <Belugas> mmh... 14 hours of driving between Montreal and Chicago... 14:47:22 <Belugas> hell... the roads are long in here :( 14:47:26 <Rubidium> planetmaker: to what extent does going to a pub limit "younger" people to participate? 14:47:35 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:47:50 <Rubidium> not sure whether we should really bother about that, but well... never hurts to check 14:48:16 <orudge_> <Belugas> mmh... 14 hours of driving between Montreal and Chicago... <-- or about 2 hours on a plane, I imagine :) 14:48:45 *** argkde4 [argkde4@bas5-oshawa95-1176338246.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:55 <planetmaker> Rubidium, I guess it limits it to midnight for people younger than 18 14:48:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: to my knowledge, there is no age limit for pubs 14:49:24 <Belugas> will cost roughly 115$ by road, plus hotel, lunch and so on 14:49:25 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, but why did one have to leave a discotheque at midnight when not 18? 14:49:43 <Markk> Belugas: Don't you live in Denmark? 14:49:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Markk: no, that was the other B person 14:50:00 <Belugas> Markk, nope, not at all... 14:50:07 <Markk> Okay. :P 14:50:09 <Eddi|zuHause> whose name shall not be mentioned! 14:50:13 <planetmaker> :-D 14:50:37 <__ln__> Markk: he lives in a country which has border disputes with Denmark. 14:50:40 <planetmaker> Rubidium, but sure, that's a good point. Though if it's a private convention I'm not entirely sure whether those rules do apply 14:51:02 <Markk> __ln__: Canada? 14:51:08 <planetmaker> ^ 14:51:11 <Markk> (Greenland) 14:51:45 <__ln__> do we know for a fact that someone is under 18? 14:51:54 <Rubidium> planetmaker: well, I seem to remember that in the US getting access for < 21 year old people would be kinda troublesome 14:52:22 <Rubidium> probably because of their sue-happy culture 14:52:26 <Belugas> orudge: more than 500$ is a bit hard to swallow... i'd rather buy a new lens instead ;) 14:52:30 <Markk> Awesome, it's about 80 degrees outside, and I'm listening to Earth, Wind and Fire - September. :D 14:52:53 <Belugas> Markk, yup, Canada is my place 14:52:56 <Markk> Awesome 14:52:58 <Belugas> country 14:53:24 <planetmaker> Rubidium, 18 is definitely the only limit in that respect, 16 might be another, 14 yet another, but... 14:53:55 <orudge_> <Belugas> orudge: more than 500$ is a bit hard to swallow... i'd rather buy a new lens instead ;) <-- heh 14:54:00 * orudge_ is heading to Vancouver next weekend 14:54:09 <orudge_> and I'm hoping my lens is back from the camera repair shop by then :/ 14:54:34 <orudge_> it unfortunately got dropped :( 14:54:36 <Belugas> ho? sand/dust? 14:54:42 <Belugas> ooops... 14:54:50 <orudge_> which damaged some of the electric contacts on it 14:54:53 <Belugas> like, badly damaged? 14:54:59 <orudge_> not too badly, no 14:55:10 <Belugas> good for you :) 14:55:14 <Belugas> what lens was that? 14:55:23 <Belugas> was-is 14:55:36 <orudge_> just the stock 18-55mm lens that comes with the Nikon D40 14:55:44 <__ln__> is a cake expected to survive from dutchland to germanland on a summer day? 14:56:00 <orudge_> I've intended to get a 55-200mm lens too, but alas money has been prioritised in other areas recently :p 14:56:09 <planetmaker> __ln__, they can reasonably be expected to survive. 14:56:17 <Belugas> 18-55 is very good to walk around. 14:56:17 <planetmaker> Tested successfully (though the other way around) 14:56:23 <SirSquidness> __ln__: as long as it's not an icecream cake \o/ 14:56:29 <Belugas> 55-200 is a bit too small, if you ask me 14:56:49 <Belugas> you might check 70-300 at sigma 14:57:26 <Belugas> note that... i choose the canon's 70-300mm... 14:58:15 <orudge_> mmh 14:58:24 <orudge_> well, we shall see :) 14:58:30 <peter1138> you need 14:58:35 <peter1138> http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/8baac109cb80bddfc12571e100393a1b 14:59:25 <orudge_> that might work 14:59:36 <orudge_> might be slightly impractical going through airport security, though 14:59:46 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn13-2-0-cust478.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:59:47 <orudge_> I think I may have to pay excess luggage charges for that one, too 15:03:08 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: summer starts on 21st june, that's _after_ the meet 15:03:34 <peter1138> oh, there's a meet? 15:03:54 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: an r20000 party in Braunschweig 15:04:42 <peter1138> oh, so there is an r20000 meet 15:04:43 <peter1138> hmm 15:05:55 <Sacro> ooh 15:06:20 <peter1138> pretty secret meet 15:06:32 <glx> wow 256kg 15:07:05 <glx> not so secret 15:07:26 <planetmaker> peter1138, so far yes :-P 15:07:32 <glx> everything started here 15:07:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it was a secret conspiracy in this channel ;) 15:07:49 <planetmaker> But somehow it leaked 15:08:14 <Eddi|zuHause> only 100 people in the world knew about it 15:08:57 <peter1138> Braunschweig 15:08:57 <peter1138> »» 2010-05-20 16:04:42 <@peter1138> oh, so there is an r20000 meet 15:08:59 <peter1138> er 15:09:08 <peter1138> http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/search?q=r20000&page=1&max=2 15:09:11 <peter1138> huge amount of discussion there 15:10:35 <planetmaker> :-) 15:10:55 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19862 /trunk/src/console.cpp: -Change: allow "" and " " as arguments meaning nothing and space for the in-game console 15:11:15 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19863 /trunk/src/table/settings.h: -Fix: redraw the screen when changing the currency settings 15:11:33 * planetmaker senses nicknames of the type " " 15:11:50 * SirSquidness is now known as NULL 15:12:23 <glx> peter1138: 2010-05-16 21:06:35 < Weeknie> We should arrange a meating once lol <-- that's when it really started 15:12:41 <planetmaker> yeah, kinda. 15:13:00 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19864 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix: don't print a pointer as string for listing (a) setting(s) 15:13:28 <glx> how silly, search and details don't use the same TZ 15:14:21 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19865 /trunk/src/ (settings.cpp settings_internal.h): -Fix [FS#3830]: crash when changing locale settings from console due to strcpy-ing a string into a pointer 15:15:07 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19866 /trunk/src/lang/russian.txt: -Change: use non breaking spaces as digit group separators in the Russian translation 15:17:49 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:19:25 *** Adambean [CG1@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 15:22:46 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 15:23:00 *** Tennel [~Tennel@port-ip-213-211-212-60.reverse.mdcc-fun.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 15:24:55 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has joined #openttd 15:36:57 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19867 /trunk/src/ (currency.cpp strgen/strgen.cpp string_type.h): -Change: use non-breaking spaces for currency pre-/postfixes. 15:37:20 <peter1138> use non-breaking windows for green house 15:40:50 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF88DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:41:59 <dihedral> planetmaker, for the funeral of my dad we were able to reserve a bunch of rooms and got like 10% off ;-) 15:42:23 <SmatZ> that GDB is driving me crazy 15:42:30 <SmatZ> it completely ignores breakpoints I set 15:42:44 <Rubidium> lto? 15:42:47 <SmatZ> and refuses to start the program in "step" mode 15:42:52 <planetmaker> dihedral, yeah, I could certainly do that there, too. They explicitly say they give group discounts 15:42:57 <SmatZ> nope, just normal code that worked 5 minutes ago 15:43:07 <fjb> planetmaker: When will the get-together happen? 15:43:12 <glx> optimisations ? 15:43:14 <planetmaker> fjb, 19/20 June 15:43:14 <SmatZ> but now GDB reached its puberty and doesn't obey at all 15:43:17 <dihedral> unless TrueBrain wants to share a double with me :-D 15:43:25 <planetmaker> :-D 15:43:33 <SmatZ> glx: no changes to optimisations, everything works - apart from breakpoints... 15:43:35 <dihedral> lol SmatZ 15:43:56 <SmatZ> (gdb) step 15:43:57 <glx> I never have troubles with breakpoints with -O0 15:43:58 <SmatZ> The program is not being run. 15:44:15 <fjb> planetmaker: Braunschweig is only 45km north of here. 15:44:16 <SmatZ> how do I explain it I want to start stepping from the first program instruction? 15:44:25 <planetmaker> wolfenbÃŒttel? 15:44:29 <planetmaker> hildesheim? 15:44:47 <fjb> planetmaker: Bad Harzburg. 15:45:15 <planetmaker> he :-) 15:45:16 <__ln__> sounds Bad 15:45:29 <planetmaker> __ln__, it rather sounds healthy ;-) 15:46:09 <fjb> __ln__: Bad, from baden = bathing. 15:47:27 <SmatZ> also, stupid DDD starts it some stacked mode, so all windows are so tiny, so I have to resize them so I can use that tool 15:47:29 <SmatZ> blargh 15:47:34 <SmatZ> I got too much today I guess 15:47:48 * planetmaker hugs SmatZ 15:47:53 <planetmaker> and gives him a cookie 15:47:56 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: lots of places in germany are "Bad" in that way :p 15:48:14 <SmatZ> and NASM fails to export debug symbols with full path - or is it again GDB who fails to append the path correctly? ... 15:48:17 <SmatZ> thanks planetmaker :) 15:48:39 <planetmaker> :-) 15:48:48 <SmatZ> also: 15:48:52 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: places that are "Bad" are allowed to collect additional taxes 15:49:01 <SmatZ> (gdb) q 15:49:01 <__ln__> cool 15:49:08 <SmatZ> A debugging session is active.Quit anyway? (y or n) y 15:49:09 <planetmaker> "Kurtaxe" ;-) 15:49:12 <SmatZ> OF COURSE I DO! 15:49:19 <SmatZ> why do you think I typed QQQQ!!!!?!?! 15:49:21 <SmatZ> :-p 15:49:31 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, like Bad Ewanne 15:49:47 <SmatZ> it's the same when KDE asks me if I really do want to turn off computer, and asks it TWICE 15:49:47 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: something like "-les-bains" here (they are allowed to have casinos) 15:49:49 <SmatZ> I DO! 15:50:23 <dihedral> are you sure? 15:50:43 <glx> are you really sure? 15:50:56 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: yes, similar... actually "Bad" is a direct translation of "bain" 15:50:59 <planetmaker> hm... maybe not? 15:51:01 <SmatZ> :-D 15:51:14 <SmatZ> and kscreenlocker fails to unlock my screen 15:51:27 <SmatZ> so I have to login at different terminal and type "killall kscreenlocker" 15:51:30 <Eddi|zuHause> of course, you need a kscreenunlocker for that :p 15:51:32 <SmatZ> ... 15:51:35 <SmatZ> :-p 15:51:35 <dihedral> planetmaker, CVJM....? 15:53:05 <Eddi|zuHause> YMCA? 15:53:14 <planetmaker> dihedral, yes 15:53:16 <Rubidium> CMYK? 15:53:19 <planetmaker> :-D 15:53:33 <planetmaker> CVJM (de) = YMCA (en) 15:53:45 <planetmaker> christlicher verein junger menschen ;-) 15:53:59 <planetmaker> I thought you knew that, dihedral 15:54:21 <dihedral> yes - i know that, just surprised me ;-) 15:54:26 <planetmaker> :-) 15:54:39 <planetmaker> it's a good hotel. We always send our guests there 15:54:54 <planetmaker> good prices, nice rooms, central location 15:54:58 <fjb> glx: We have a casino here. :-) 15:56:49 <planetmaker> dihedral, I certainly can host a few people, if they bring sleeping matress and bag - and in case of doubt don't mind to sleep under the roof where I usually dry my clothes :-) 15:56:59 <planetmaker> but it won't work for all. 15:58:11 *** rait [~rait@82.131.42.36.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 16:00:28 <Rubidium> could always start relatively early and not make it very late 16:00:52 <Rubidium> the r10k was finished just after 21:00 IIRC 16:01:26 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 16:01:39 <Rubidium> which should give quite some people a chance to get at home I guess 16:02:34 <planetmaker> how / at what location was it held? 16:02:45 <Rubidium> at TB's home 16:02:48 <planetmaker> ah :-) 16:02:53 <planetmaker> and how many were there? 16:03:14 <Rubidium> less than half a dozen I think 16:03:26 <dihedral> lol 16:03:27 <planetmaker> oh. Considerably less then :-) 16:04:43 *** Goulp [~Goulp@main.goulp.net] has quit [Quit: KISS] 16:04:58 <Rubidium> what's so bad about the E30 between Minden and Osnabruck that google suggests going via Bremen or Dortmund? 16:05:40 *** Goulp [~Goulp@main.goulp.net] has joined #openttd 16:06:58 <Yexo> hmm? google maps gives the route via osnabruck as first suggestions, via bremen and dortmund are two alternative routes that both take longer 16:06:59 *** caribou| [~caribou@98.132-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #openttd 16:06:59 <Rubidium> also, if it starts just after lunch (assume people had lunch when arriving) (13:00 ish?) that would give a reasonable departure time for most as well 16:07:07 <caribou|> hello 16:07:41 <planetmaker> well, yes, it would. 16:07:43 <caribou|> is there any way to autorenew my vehicles easily ? 16:07:59 <planetmaker> caribou|, yes, by using the autorenew feature 16:08:03 <caribou|> autorenew = true ? 16:08:07 <planetmaker> yes 16:08:14 <caribou|> mhhh does people use to do that ? 16:08:15 <Rubidium> Yexo: 70-80 km longer but only 30 minutes, which would mean a higher average speed or something 16:08:19 <caribou|> because that's really boring... 16:08:27 <caribou|> (not to use it i mean...) 16:08:36 <planetmaker> Rubidium, but I guess many of the longer-distant people would like to stay the night :-) 16:08:48 <Yexo> ah, I didn't look at the distance 16:09:03 <Rubidium> maybe the E30 has a 100 km/h speed limit for some reason and the alternatives don't have such a restriction 16:09:06 <planetmaker> Rubidium, that highway has less speed limits 16:09:13 <planetmaker> yeah, I think 16:09:42 <planetmaker> going via OsnabrÃŒck is a quick and nice route 16:10:13 <planetmaker> the only nasty thing is the connection to the A2 16:10:29 <planetmaker> where the highway from OsnabrÃŒck ends in front of a small town and only continues afterwards 16:10:41 <planetmaker> And that town is literally plastered with speeding cameras 16:11:29 <planetmaker> like every kilometer one or so ;-) 16:11:30 <Rubidium> ah, that explains it all :) 16:11:51 <Rubidium> it's a piece of "no highway" 16:11:55 <planetmaker> yes 16:12:27 <Rubidium> that for the longest european road 16:12:52 <planetmaker> :-D 16:12:55 <Rubidium> although I have to confess that in the NL it's for a bit not a highway either 16:13:11 <Rubidium> (just before the ferry to the UK) 16:14:10 *** Goulp [~Goulp@main.goulp.net] has quit [Quit: KISS] 16:15:10 *** Goulp [~Goulp@main.goulp.net] has joined #openttd 16:18:12 <SmatZ> ok, seems naming custom section "init" wasn't the best idea... it fooled GDB, and the code was executed as first :-p 16:18:34 <SmatZ> so main() wasn't executed 16:18:41 <SmatZ> and breakpoints were not reached... 16:19:28 <Yexo> what has gdb got to do with the order of execution? isn't that a problem of ld (or whatever linker you use)? 16:20:54 <SmatZ> Yexo: right, gdb is probably not the problem 16:20:56 <SmatZ> it's me :-p 16:21:14 <SmatZ> but it's easier to blame gdb than to admit I am fool :-p 16:21:20 <Yexo> hehe :) 16:22:09 <SmatZ> still, it would be great if GDB allowed me to start program in "stepping" mode from the first insutrction... 16:22:17 <SmatZ> I am not experienced with GDB at all :( 16:23:27 <Yexo> first instruction is usually a lot of library code 16:24:33 <SmatZ> really? I thought _start is executed 16:24:36 <SmatZ> but thanks for info :) 16:25:07 <Yexo> oh, that's quite possible, but 'normally' you don't write _start yourself 16:25:29 <Eddi|zuHause> what do you do with something that says "best before 2004"? 16:26:10 <Fast2> Eat it! ;) 16:26:17 <SmatZ> :-) 16:26:46 <Eddi|zuHause> it's pudding powder... does that get bad at all? 16:27:18 <dihedral> only one way to find out :-P 16:28:50 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, chances are it can't really get bad 16:33:44 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 16:35:47 *** Keyboard_Warrior is now known as theholyduck 16:36:55 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe4a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:38:38 *** Brin [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 16:41:05 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i might have used too much water... it's a little too liquid 16:42:54 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:43:07 <planetmaker> water? Milk! 16:43:23 <dihedral> some are mixed with water, pm 16:43:51 <dihedral> how come you were not able to read how much water you would have to add? :-P 16:44:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it said "half a cup of coffee" 16:44:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and "(150ml)" 16:50:29 <Eddi|zuHause> ... but no negative side effects yet 16:51:35 * SmatZ pats __ln__ 16:51:40 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.17.240] has joined #openttd 16:52:39 * __ln__ pats back 16:52:50 <Eddi|zuHause> get a room! 16:54:49 * theholyduck imagines a world where openttd is multithreaded 16:55:01 <theholyduck> and you can run 10k trains on your delicious quadcore 16:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause> go ahead! 16:55:15 <theholyduck> Eddi|zuHause, well i can only imagine it 16:55:21 <dihedral> theholyduck, what would you run in different threads?? 16:55:31 <theholyduck> dihedral, hmm, a big question. 16:55:33 <dihedral> (in your imagination) 16:55:44 <dihedral> or do you refer to 'threaded' as 'faster'? 16:55:45 <theholyduck> dihedral, well most of the cpu is taken by pathfinder right? 16:55:47 <Eddi|zuHause> theholyduck: there are way too many data dependencies to run in threads reliably 16:56:07 <__ln__> a separate thread for each vehicle 16:56:09 <theholyduck> :P 16:56:18 <theholyduck> alternativly 16:56:27 <theholyduck> you could i guess theoretically dedicate pathfinding for a given area of the map 16:56:29 <Eddi|zuHause> theholyduck: the main problem is, it must be deterministic 16:56:30 <theholyduck> or network 16:56:35 <theholyduck> to a thread 16:56:50 <theholyduck> so low level path findind is done on seperate threads for that local area 16:56:53 <dihedral> it's cute 16:57:16 <theholyduck> that way you'd have less issues with the threads on pathfinding causing something major 16:57:47 <dihedral> ... 16:57:52 <Eddi|zuHause> theholyduck: pathfinding is not done on "an area of map" 16:57:59 <theholyduck> Eddi|zuHause, well yeah, not normally :P 16:58:09 <Eddi|zuHause> not ever 16:58:17 <theholyduck> well i'm talking a new approach to pathfinding 16:58:17 <dihedral> theholyduck, you are amusing a good portion of this channel 16:58:19 <dihedral> :-P 16:58:24 <theholyduck> dihedral, possibly :P 16:58:42 <dihedral> in fact - if i may put it that way: you ware making a fool of yourself :-P 16:58:48 <theholyduck> dihedral, probably 16:58:54 <yorick> someone made an area-based yapf 16:59:17 <Eddi|zuHause> theholyduck: it takes more calculation power to determine whether a pathfinding operation can be confinded to "an area of map" than it takes to do the pathfinding 16:59:18 <yorick> on that automatic rail builder patch 16:59:34 <theholyduck> Eddi|zuHause, well yeah, it would waste a fair bit of cpu 16:59:49 <theholyduck> Eddi|zuHause, the point of the exercise is that it can now utilize as many cores as you have more effectivly 16:59:51 <theholyduck> in theory atleast 16:59:59 <theholyduck> its just something i dreamt up once 17:00:07 <theholyduck> in the real world its probably not viable 17:00:14 <planetmaker> theholyduck, it may work in single player 17:00:17 <Eddi|zuHause> your theory is significantly in need of refining 17:00:18 <dihedral> you have an interesting imagination 17:00:21 <yorick> but how do you fix that synchronization? 17:00:29 <planetmaker> but as soon as you enter multi-player things get much more complex 17:00:51 <theholyduck> an alternative yet again that i have no idea if is implemented 17:01:18 <dihedral> no, you have no idea. (full stop) :-P 17:01:18 <theholyduck> make the diffrent sort of pf's run in diffrent threads 17:01:22 <Eddi|zuHause> theholyduck: player A who compiled with threads disabled must get the exact same results as player B who has threads but only one core, and player C who enabled multicore-distribution 17:01:45 <theholyduck> atleast boats and planes dont interact with anything else 17:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> planes don't have a pathfinder at all 17:02:16 <theholyduck> ok then, but boats du 17:02:17 <theholyduck> *do 17:02:27 <theholyduck> i noticed boats lagging up games when you got enough of them alongside trains 17:02:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the boat pathfinder has different problems than multithreading 17:02:41 <dihedral> ship pathfinding is expensive, but that is due to the fact that every tile can be considered a 'turning point' 17:02:52 <theholyduck> well yes, but if it ran in a seperate thread from trains 17:03:06 <theholyduck> as long as you had 2 cores, there would be less slowdowns from it right? 17:03:07 <dihedral> it would still consider every tile a turning point and still be expensive 17:03:23 <theholyduck> dihedral, yes, i'm not talking about making boat pf less expensive 17:03:24 <dihedral> and perhaps for you, who has multiple cores, that's makes it less noticable 17:03:31 <theholyduck> just less NOTICABLE 17:03:36 <dihedral> for YOU 17:03:42 <dihedral> what's with all the other players? 17:03:47 <Eddi|zuHause> theholyduck: at least as much time as for pathfinding is spent in the collision detection 17:03:59 <yorick> which is not done for ships, is it 17:04:01 <theholyduck> Eddi|zuHause, boats dont colide though. 17:04:04 <theholyduck> with anything 17:04:11 <theholyduck> which is why its the perfect candiate to move somewhere else 17:04:27 <theholyduck> boats dont colide and they dont interact with any other form of veichles at all 17:04:30 <theholyduck> unlike cars 17:04:40 <yorick> theholyduck: they do still interact with the players money 17:05:12 <theholyduck> yorick, sure, but the fact that it might charge or add a bit too late or early isnt likely to cause any issues now is it? 17:05:30 <dihedral> could 17:05:52 <dihedral> as Eddi|zuHause said, all clients and also the server must have exactly the same values in the same frame 17:06:16 <yorick> theholyduck: it is 17:06:34 <yorick> theholyduck: what if you have a HUGE ship, which would pay you enough money to build stuff and such 17:06:38 <yorick> what then 17:06:50 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@119.11.25.179] has quit [] 17:07:07 <dihedral> YOU get payed and build, and the server does not yet see that income 17:07:11 <dihedral> but an expense 17:07:12 <Yexo> theholyduck: imagine a train is in need of renewing and you just don't have enough 17:07:20 <dihedral> the server will refuse the build action 17:07:22 <Yexo> on clients A a ship unloads, you get money and have enough for the train rewew 17:07:33 <Yexo> on client B first the renew check is done, then the ship unloads 17:07:39 <Yexo> -> desync 17:07:52 <dihedral> Client A and Server should be enough :-P 17:07:52 <yorick> and also thing about the station ratings 17:07:55 <yorick> think* 17:08:07 <Yexo> client B is the server :p 17:08:20 <dihedral> :-P 17:08:29 <Yexo> station ratings are no problem, at least if all pathfinding is still done at the same time 17:09:20 <dihedral> talking of which.... 17:09:26 <dihedral> Yexo? 17:09:37 <dihedral> i looked out of my window and saw a ... squirrel :-P 17:10:08 <theholyduck> heh, i guess my plan does have flaws 17:10:18 <theholyduck> so even with threading, you need some fancy synching stuff? 17:10:22 <dihedral> no - sorry theholyduck you are wrong again 17:10:29 <dihedral> your plan does not have flaws 17:10:33 <dihedral> your plan IS a flaw 17:14:08 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@77.106.154.136] has joined #openttd 17:16:25 <SpComb> openttd is already multithreaded :P 17:18:36 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@ip-10-137-106-77.eidsiva.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:19:40 *** APTX_ [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:20:19 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 17:24:55 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:28:50 <glx> SpComb: yes landscape generation and saving ;) 17:31:20 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:34:48 *** Keyboard_Warrior is now known as theholyduck 17:35:04 <theholyduck> and not for the crushing weight of the trains 17:36:12 <SpComb> you need to be more specific :) 17:37:29 <SpComb> but generally, one of the silly things with threading is that while it might make your stuff go faster on a multi-cpu/core host, it'll generally make your single-core performance much, much worse 17:39:29 <SpComb> you'd have to be very, very smart about it to keep the break-even point low enough for it to be worth it 17:40:04 <glx> anyway requiring a map locking is a no-go 17:40:19 <glx> and as everything in openttd access the map :) 17:42:41 * Rubidium proposes theholyduck first figures out what takes most CPU and then starts with thinking about how to optimise that 17:46:01 * Rubidium currently looks at a profile where the actual train pathfinding takes a whopping 3.8% of the CPU 17:46:28 <planetmaker> :-) 17:46:44 <planetmaker> frigging tile loops, those :-P 17:47:25 <Rubidium> planetmaker: yep, ~24% 17:47:51 <Rubidium> ~17% with drawing the windows 17:48:21 <Rubidium> @calc 2472452/2011 17:48:21 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 1229.46394828 17:48:52 <Rubidium> okay, that game has about 600 trains 17:50:24 <Rubidium> I have to say that the profile seems to imply train NewGRFs are uses 17:50:58 *** murr4y [~murray@89.84-49-66.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:51:28 <planetmaker> uh? train newgrfs are what? 17:51:33 <Rubidium> about 9% goes up with resolving sprite groups 17:51:46 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:51:48 <planetmaker> Japanese? 17:52:21 <Rubidium> planetmaker: no clue, just found a (gprof) profile on the bug tracker 17:52:29 <planetmaker> oh :-P 17:52:30 <theholyduck> well ok then, but openttd still goes mental on your cpu with large maps and many trains 17:52:41 <theholyduck> and it maxing out at 25% potential of calculation is ;( 17:52:42 <planetmaker> theholyduck, large maps 17:53:07 <planetmaker> theholyduck, it's no problem to speed it up, if you want to drop multiplayer 17:53:13 <theholyduck> heh :P 17:53:44 <Rubidium> planetmaker: and like non-determinism and some "rounding" errors 17:53:58 <planetmaker> Rubidium, in SP a few race conditions don't matter that much 17:54:03 <planetmaker> It can't desync 17:54:18 <theholyduck> so what we need is more magic? 17:54:59 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I mean, two trains loading at the same time taking the same cargo (updating the same variable), or the same when unloading 17:55:05 <Yexo> <planetmaker> Rubidium, in SP a few race conditions don't matter that much <- when trying to find a bug it's very useful there are no race conditions, even for sp 17:55:30 <planetmaker> Yexo, sure, no doubt. And I don't want to advocate it :-) 17:55:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19868 /trunk/src/lang/ (indonesian.txt russian.txt): 17:55:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:55:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: indonesian - 4 changes by prof 17:55:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: russian - 17 changes by Lone_Wolf, perk11 17:55:55 <planetmaker> Rubidium, yep, probably. But then that could be probably avoided by using some kind of semaphores 17:55:56 <Rubidium> Yexo: but then bugs are the result of the non-determinism, so we don't care anymore 17:56:05 <planetmaker> hehe. indeed 17:56:31 <Rubidium> planetmaker: locking is expensive and must be avoided at all cost (even state correctness) to please theholyduck 17:56:45 <planetmaker> :-D 17:58:10 <Rubidium> although, to please theholyduck we could also run an "idle" thread on each of the cores 17:58:23 <theholyduck> or! i know 17:58:30 <theholyduck> incorperate folding@home into openttd 17:58:40 <theholyduck> to use the remaining cpu power on multicore boxes 17:59:05 <Eddi|zuHause> which brings us back to CloudTTD :) 18:01:11 *** murr4y [~murray@89.84-49-66.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 18:02:02 <Alberth> I like climateprediction.net much more 18:02:31 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B8DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:52 <SpComb> "When are the netherlands going to be underwater?" 18:03:10 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 18:03:17 * Alberth lives above sea level 18:03:29 *** Adambean` [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 18:03:57 <theholyduck> related quote 18:03:59 <theholyduck> <ChronoCross> I feel as though ----------------------tesa should be an option. it should be compareable to lossless with the side effect of it taking an eternity to encode. 18:03:59 <theholyduck> <ChronoCross> I guarantee 90% of the people in this channel and doom9 would use it. 18:04:05 <theholyduck> <pengvado> no, it has to be blatantly obvious. 18:04:05 <theholyduck> <pengvado> --placebo 18:04:05 <theholyduck> <pengvado> which makes your encode 10x slower and donates the difference to folding@home 18:04:09 <theholyduck> hmm, i should learn to use pastebin 18:05:59 *** Adambean` [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [] 18:06:15 <Alberth> or not paste pseudo random quotes in a channel 18:06:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: above _current_ sealevel :P 18:08:14 <Eddi|zuHause> reminds me of: "the dutch only will have problems with rising sea level until they figure out how to smoke seaweed" :p 18:08:23 <Rubidium> SpComb: when the sealevel rises more than about 321 meters 18:09:17 *** Adambean [CG1@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:10:13 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc0cd5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:13:27 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC72E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:14:52 <planetmaker> Alberth: I asked already, but I forgot and didn't take notes: where should best go things like this->SetWidgetDisabledState(GLAND_INDUSTRY_PULLDOWN, _game_mode == GM_EDITOR); ? 18:14:55 <andythenorth> evening 18:15:16 <Rubidium> afternoon andythenorth 18:15:17 <planetmaker> (which currently are found in OnPaint 18:15:31 <planetmaker> ) - good evening andythenorth 18:15:41 <Rubidium> planetmaker: OnPaint is preferably used only for the actual painting, not for updating the window's state 18:16:04 <andythenorth> bah 18:16:08 <planetmaker> well, yes. But many (most?) windows seem to set the disabled state there. But yeah, that's why I'm asking :-) 18:16:19 <andythenorth> goods grows cities apparently. 18:16:30 <planetmaker> andythenorth: no ;-) 18:16:37 <andythenorth> which of these three would be easier: 18:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: look in those where the OnPaint method was already cleaned up :p 18:17:04 <andythenorth> (A) make various web documentation compliant with the game in resp. of goods and town growth 18:17:21 <andythenorth> (B) make players compliant with the accurate documentation not the inaccurate documentation 18:17:38 <andythenorth> (C) make the game compliant with the inaccurate documentation 18:17:38 <andythenorth> ? 18:17:40 <planetmaker> andythenorth: of what do you dream at night? 18:17:42 <Rubidium> planetmaker: if it never changes again, in the constructor. Otherwise in some function that's called whenever that state changes 18:17:50 <andythenorth> planetmaker: a dreamless sleep 18:17:51 <dihedral> (C) design the game to be accurate to incorrect documentation 18:18:16 <planetmaker> Rubidium: it does change. So things like OnClick and so on. Ok :-) 18:18:41 <Rubidium> planetmaker: _game_mode likely doesn't 18:18:49 <planetmaker> hm? 18:18:58 <planetmaker> ah.. . EDITOR or not. Yes 18:19:11 <Alberth> http://paste.openttd.org/225811 18:19:29 <planetmaker> :D 18:19:31 <planetmaker> thanks 18:19:47 * andythenorth doesn't have the heart to correct a forum poster about goods 18:19:55 <andythenorth> but not teaching is a crime :| 18:20:04 <Rubidium> andythenorth: incorrect documentation should be fixed 18:20:14 <dihedral> andythenorth, who was the poster? 18:20:20 <Rubidium> incorrect **official** documentation, that is 18:20:41 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=878334#p878334 18:22:27 <dihedral> lol? 18:23:37 * andythenorth googles for whatever source it is that feeds this rumour 18:23:42 <andythenorth> but can't find any 18:24:49 <planetmaker> andythenorth: "goods growing town" is one of the most common misconceptions about the game 18:24:50 <Rubidium> TE_GOODS 18:24:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: as it's "common knowledge", things like this constantly appear in wikis and the like 18:25:39 *** rait [~rait@82.131.42.36.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: 4002, sources date: 20100125, built on: 2010-02-22 08:48:07 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:25:47 <andythenorth> this page is a cluster f*ck 18:25:48 <andythenorth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Town_growth 18:26:12 <andythenorth> it contains multiple errors :o 18:26:30 <andythenorth> "Delivery of Goods or Food has no effect on the rate of town growth." 18:26:40 <andythenorth> but also "Goods and food can increase the rate of growth where accepted, and water is necessary for desert towns." 18:26:55 <andythenorth> ". Goods can accelerate the growth of a town, although it is the number of passengers delivered to the town which has the most impact." 18:27:05 <Rubidium> andythenorth: then FIX it 18:27:14 <andythenorth> " Although there is no requirement for the level of food to induce growth, the rate of expansion can be increased slightly by increasing the food supply." 18:27:16 <andythenorth> I will 18:27:23 <andythenorth> let me finish cooking and I'll do it 18:27:29 <andythenorth> then you can laugh at my errors :P 18:28:03 <dihedral> as long as the holy duck does not mangle with it and claim that more cores grow towns better :-P 18:33:18 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:40:20 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:44 <planetmaker> Rubidium: some widgets which need their state updated upon several events (like snow line buttons). Should they get updated upon every event (duplicating code), should it remain in OnPaint, or something else? 18:52:06 <planetmaker> maybe like static void UpdateSnowline() 18:52:15 <planetmaker> maybe like static void UpdateSnowlineButtons() 18:53:57 <planetmaker> hm... UpdateSnowLineWidgets... sounds not bad actually 18:55:11 <Rubidium> planetmaker: check some of the other windows. Usually the lazy method of "just check all buttons" method is applied, i.e. update the state of all buttons when you know only the state of one changed 18:55:15 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19869 /trunk/src/network/network.cpp: -Fix [FS#3819]: when a connection gets lost and a game with AIs was loaded the client might crash due to the AIs not being loaded while the game loop is executed 18:55:35 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B8DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:55:57 <planetmaker> hm, yes, that might be more sensible. At least for those which change on several occasions 18:59:21 <Eddi|zuHause> GUI code is not in dire need of run-time optimisation 19:00:07 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 19:00:19 <Eddi|zuHause> unless it's things like the cargodist link graph, which need extraordinarily many ressources 19:00:51 <SpComb> link graph is like O(N²) on all stations :( 19:00:55 <Alberth> I find it a bit frightening that you need such a thing to play the game 19:02:12 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: it might be even worse than that, but i don't know the exact calculation 19:02:30 <SpComb> yeah, there's several loops 19:03:22 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:09:21 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@77.106.155.89] has joined #openttd 19:12:47 <fonsinchen> Yes, the smallmap code is not very well optimized. 19:13:14 <fonsinchen> A lot of that stuff could be cached. 19:13:58 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.154.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:14:17 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC72E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!] 19:14:21 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: the stuff you do in threads, have you ever looked at doing this in the tile loop instead? 19:14:38 <fonsinchen> no 19:15:13 <fonsinchen> I was thinking about providing a sort of "stepping" function which would break it up into smaller portions 19:15:38 <caribou|> how do you handle this situation ? http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8973/gnnn.png 19:15:39 <fonsinchen> Then I'd still run that in the main loop 19:16:08 <fonsinchen> What is that? 19:16:26 <caribou|> mhh this is a two way crossroads :D 19:16:58 <Eddi|zuHause> caribou|: what do you want to achieve with the presignals there? 19:17:02 <caribou|> i'm not using blocking signal because some train are waiting ON the crossroad :/ 19:17:32 <Eddi|zuHause> caribou|: you should use path signals, then trains will never wait _on_ the crossing 19:17:36 <caribou|> i want the train to wait Before 19:18:05 <caribou|> ok i've never used them 'im gonna dig that 19:18:56 <caribou|> thanks 19:19:48 <Keyboard_Warrior> Eddi|zuHause, well, he COULD have some sort of fancy priority or a timer or any other sort of fancy presignal stuff 19:19:50 <Keyboard_Warrior> just outside of view 19:19:56 <Keyboard_Warrior> that would explain that construct instead of pbs 19:20:17 <Keyboard_Warrior> caribou|, also, remember to make the presignals 1 way presignals, otherwise, weird stuff can happen 19:21:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Keyboard_Warrior: when he has one way signals, it wouldn't be a two way crossing 19:21:18 <caribou|> Keyboard_Warrior, 1 way ? but i want them to be two way :S ? 19:21:56 <Keyboard_Warrior> caribou|, oh, so hes not making the presignals 2 way to trick the pathfinder a bit? 19:22:22 <Keyboard_Warrior> its genuinly 3 unidirectional lines ? :P 19:22:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Keyboard_Warrior: you're thinking way too complex :p 19:22:44 <Keyboard_Warrior> Eddi|zuHause, well openttdcoop has ruined me to the ways of thinking about openttd games normally 19:23:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Keyboard_Warrior: yes, i was just gonna suggest that :p 19:25:16 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC548B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:30:47 * andythenorth is not very good at editing wiki pages :P 19:31:05 <caribou|> i cant make them two-way O_O 19:31:24 <Keyboard_Warrior> caribou|, they are 19:31:36 <Keyboard_Warrior> caribou|, essentially, the one with a yellow thing under it 19:31:38 <Keyboard_Warrior> is 1 way 19:31:38 <Keyboard_Warrior> or white 19:31:46 <Keyboard_Warrior> or whatever it is in your grf set 19:31:57 <caribou|> <Eddi|zuHause> caribou|: you should use path signal 19:31:57 <Keyboard_Warrior> the one without that can be passed through from either side 19:32:04 <caribou|> i was using path signals :o 19:32:09 <Keyboard_Warrior> no 19:32:12 *** Wasila [~Wasila@81-178-69-164.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 19:32:13 <Keyboard_Warrior> you were using PRE signals 19:32:17 <caribou|> yes i know :D 19:32:30 <caribou|> i mean just now i was trying to put two way path signals that's why i guess... 19:32:31 <Keyboard_Warrior> caribou|, pbs signals lets you pass through them from the back 19:32:44 <Keyboard_Warrior> unless they are specifically PBS 1way 19:32:51 *** XOR is now known as xOR 19:32:56 <andythenorth> I don't really know the wiki etiquette (I've read the style guide though). Is totally rewriting the town page bad behaviour? 19:33:13 <caribou|> Keyboard_Warrior, yes that's what i want to do a two way crossroad 19:33:18 <Eddi|zuHause> caribou|: they work differently 19:33:47 <Eddi|zuHause> caribou|: they show only a signal on the side where the train should be waiting, but allow trains going the other direction without stopping 19:34:00 <Keyboard_Warrior> http://wiki.openttd.org/PBS caribou| 19:34:13 <Keyboard_Warrior> with a pathfinder penalty though 19:34:24 <Keyboard_Warrior> so trains will prefer not to go through the back of a pbs signal, unless it has to 19:36:04 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 19:37:14 <Keyboard_Warrior> pbs is an amazingly good "get out of effort. free"-card 19:37:44 <caribou|> i still don't get in what purpose pbs are helping me i get the idea on situations like that http://wiki.openttd.org/images/7/7f/Yapp_basicstation.png 19:38:03 <caribou|> but it looks like i'm in a totally different situation, i guess that impression is wrong :D 19:38:30 <Keyboard_Warrior> caribou|, if you place a normal 2 way pbs at all 3 sides of that junction 19:38:37 <Keyboard_Warrior> it will be more efficient than with pre-signals 19:39:07 <Keyboard_Warrior> easier to build. 19:39:07 <Keyboard_Warrior> and generally better 19:39:21 *** amalloy [~Alan@c-67-180-16-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 19:40:06 <caribou|> ok, but they are "red" by default is that a good sign ? 19:40:33 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-54-50.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:40:52 <caribou|> i need to end my "block" i guess... 19:40:59 *** amalloy [~Alan@c-67-180-16-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #openttd [] 19:41:00 <Keyboard_Warrior> naw 19:41:03 <Keyboard_Warrior> pbs are red by default 19:41:11 <Keyboard_Warrior> they only switch green as a train "walks up to them" 19:41:16 <Eddi|zuHause> caribou|: red is good 19:41:29 <Eddi|zuHause> caribou|: they only turn green when the train is approaching 19:41:43 <caribou|> indeed, ok :D 19:42:04 <caribou|> this game is awesome i'm sure that in 6 months i will still fight with signals 19:42:27 <caribou|> (no irony) 19:46:46 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!] 19:46:48 <caribou|> is there a way to see the signal color when you're only seeing its back ? 19:47:06 <Keyboard_Warrior> caribou|, naw 19:47:11 <caribou|> ok :/ 19:47:14 <Keyboard_Warrior> caribou|, but what you SHOULD enable when using pbs 19:47:19 <Keyboard_Warrior> is show reserved path 19:47:24 <caribou|> ohhh 19:47:25 *** Wasila [~Wasila@81-178-69-164.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:47:28 <caribou|> i guess that's help debugging 19:47:32 <Keyboard_Warrior> yeah 19:47:40 <caribou|> wowow i'm gonna enable that :D 19:47:58 <Keyboard_Warrior> interface, display options 19:48:04 <Keyboard_Warrior> show reserved tracks 19:48:45 <Keyboard_Warrior> essentially, pbs lets as many trains into a signal block as you want, as long as none of the reserved paths intsect 19:50:00 <caribou|> awwkay 19:50:21 <caribou|> (nothing changed when activating reserved tracks, normal ?) 19:50:28 <Keyboard_Warrior> caribou|, yeah 19:50:31 <Keyboard_Warrior> it only shows with trains 19:50:40 <Keyboard_Warrior> when a train reserves a path, that part of the track 19:50:42 <Keyboard_Warrior> turns darker 19:50:48 <caribou|> understood, thanks 19:51:26 <frosch123> wasn't your last screenshot using maglev? reserved tracks are "invisible" on maglev 19:52:12 <frosch123> or is that better in ogfx? 19:53:09 <caribou|> gnnn 19:53:25 <caribou|> yes maglev and i'm using open gfx and nothing does look darker no :s 19:53:55 <frosch123> take a close look, the small dark lines on the track might turn even more darker :p 19:54:02 <andythenorth> do larger buildings actually produce more passengers / mail? 19:54:29 <frosch123> andythenorth: production is proportional to population, unless callback are involved 19:54:30 <planetmaker> andythenorth: that depends. 19:54:50 <planetmaker> upon population - which can be set independent upon the visual size 19:54:56 * andythenorth wonders if it's necessary for the wiki to say anything about it 19:55:56 <caribou|> (yes that a bit darker indeed :D) 19:56:01 <frosch123> mention that it is quite hard to grow a toyland city, which accepts all of sweets, fizzy drinks and toys 19:56:28 <frosch123> hmm, no toys go to toy shops. what was the third cargo? 19:56:32 <andythenorth> do those cargos actually affect town growth? 19:56:57 <frosch123> andythenorth: no cargos affect town growth, except water and food in arctic and tropical 19:57:13 <frosch123> neither delivering nor transporting 19:57:16 <andythenorth> that's what I hoped you'd say. I couldn't be bothered to open that code again 19:57:39 <andythenorth> why don't wiki's use real html? 9.9 19:57:48 <frosch123> didn't i already wrote that in some of your threads some days ago? 19:57:57 <andythenorth> it came up *again* 19:58:03 <frosch123> :p 19:58:31 <andythenorth> wiki formatting is way harder to understand than real html, for me anyway :P 19:58:42 <frosch123> however, reguary serviced stations affect towngrowth 19:58:51 <frosch123> but it does not matter whether you transport anything 20:01:26 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 20:04:04 <andythenorth> so all the wiki stuff about passenger transportation == growth is also wrong :P 20:05:50 <frosch123> well, you maximise growth by loading and unloading one item of cargo at 5 stations within town influence at least once in two month 20:06:02 <frosch123> or so 20:07:05 <frosch123> @calc 20*185/72 20:07:05 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 51.3888888889 20:09:02 <andythenorth> frosch123: do the cargos have to be accepted, or just loaded/unloaded? 20:11:05 <frosch123> looks like unload order is enough 20:11:20 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:23 <frosch123> you can also transfer 20:17:27 *** Stese [~Stese@78-105-122-220.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:19:48 <Stese> hELLO ALL 20:20:00 <Stese> oops, 20:20:23 <andythenorth> if a player uses "Fund New Buildings" that may co-incidentally increase town population (some random chance depending on type of buildings constructed)? 20:20:34 <planetmaker> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3826/getfile/6105/newgame_onpaint_cleanup.diff <-- small diff which cleans OnPaint of the new game window 20:20:52 <planetmaker> hello Stese 20:21:07 <frosch123> andythenorth: what? 20:21:38 <andythenorth> If I use "Fund New Buildings" at local authority window, what is effect on town growth? 20:21:46 <andythenorth> sorry, on town population 20:22:51 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: town growth is increased drastically for a short time 20:22:55 <frosch123> it growth 2x - 3x as fast 20:23:04 <andythenorth> so the wiki should mention that... 20:23:17 <frosch123> iirc it even ignores lack of food/water 20:23:20 <Eddi|zuHause> and food/water requirement is ignored 20:23:22 <andythenorth> is there any randomness? Or is it a guaranteed growth? 20:23:39 <frosch123> there is the usual randomness 20:24:16 <Stese> so it's non random, randomness? 20:24:20 <andythenorth> " This may result in rapid population growth for a short time" 20:24:20 <frosch123> oh wait, houses are choosen based on town zones, which is changed while being funded 20:24:38 <frosch123> (you see that by planting lights and such) 20:24:39 * andythenorth knew this wiki page wouldn't be a small job :P 20:24:58 <andythenorth> can't we just remove a lot of features to make documentation easier :P 20:25:01 <frosch123> and houses in inner town zones are usually bigger, or fountains :p 20:25:06 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: "large buildings may appear even in the outskirts of the town" 20:25:17 <Yexo> planetmaker: I'd move also the SetWidgetLoweredState(GLAND_TEMPERATE... lines to UpdateWidgetStatus 20:25:39 <planetmaker> hm... yes, it's done twice, right? 20:25:43 <planetmaker> let me update it 20:25:57 <andythenorth> does building roads encourage town growth (for example by increasing the chance that a random attempt to place a new building will succeed)? 20:25:57 <Yexo> if you move the new game window out of the way, then chose another climate in the main gui the newgame window doesn't update 20:26:07 <Yexo> that is without your patch, but iwth your patch it's easy to fix 20:26:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes, slightly 20:26:16 <andythenorth> ok 20:26:24 <planetmaker> :-D Ok :-) 20:26:48 <Stese> I do that in games, to stop the blighters running roads over my rails 20:27:10 *** Stese [~Stese@78-105-122-220.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 20:28:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: in each growth step, the town has four choices: a) build a house next to an existing road, b) build a new road and a house immediately next to it, c) only build a new road, d) do nothing [e.g. when no suitible place is found] 20:28:23 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so if the roads are already there, chance is shifted towards (a) 20:29:21 <Eddi|zuHause> chance for (d) is increased when the town is blocked by water or large stations 20:29:49 <Eddi|zuHause> and reduced by use of tunnels/bridges 20:30:30 <andythenorth> Arctic...amount of food...wiki says it has an effect. I think it doesn't as long as it's >=1t per month (reading the code) 20:30:53 <frosch123> yup, one unit in the month before the food is needed is enough 20:30:56 <Yexo> correct, just 1 ton per month required 20:31:06 <planetmaker> Yexo: but I'd need to detect that the climate was changed in the main menu somehow. 20:31:21 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:31:23 <Yexo> planetmaker: InvalidateWindowClass from the main menu gui 20:31:29 <planetmaker> which requires to query the climate vars. 20:31:37 <Yexo> then in OnInValidate call UpdateWidgetStatus 20:31:52 * planetmaker has to look at that. Sounds nice :-) 20:32:42 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe4a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:02 <planetmaker> Yexo: would it make sense to just rename WidgetUpdateStatus to OnInValidate? 20:33:11 <Yexo> yes 20:33:20 <planetmaker> good :-) 20:33:39 <Yexo> that's not the exact name though, dunno what is should be called exactly 20:33:47 <planetmaker> I'll look 20:34:02 <Yexo> virtual void OnInvalidateData(int data) 20:34:12 <planetmaker> InvalidateData() I think 20:34:19 <planetmaker> hm, yes 20:36:47 <Yexo> planetmaker: see also SetNewLandscapeType (but that should use InvalidateWindowClassesData instead of SetWindowClassesDirty) 20:37:37 <Yexo> hmm, that function is copied in both intro_gui.cpp and genworld_gui.cpp 20:37:54 <Yexo> should be merged to a single function and update all the window classes listed in both functions 20:38:54 <Yexo> and then it should probably be used as callback in table/settings.h too 20:38:57 <caribou|> what's wrong with him >> http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5631/gnnn2.png 20:39:34 <andythenorth> no requirements for growth in Toyland 20:39:41 * andythenorth refuses to open toyland code 20:39:48 <Yexo> caribou|: a savegame would help 20:39:58 <andythenorth> does toyland code use funny syntax colouring :P 20:39:59 <andythenorth> ? 20:40:17 <planetmaker> Yexo: I'll look at that, too 20:40:32 <planetmaker> should it become a separate patch? Looks rather like one issue, but I'm not sure 20:40:45 <Yexo> just throw it all in your ptach 20:40:52 <planetmaker> k 20:41:10 <caribou|> Yexo, ok i'm gonna do that 20:41:32 <Yexo> or if you want to split it in two, 1) update landscape buttons in all windows correctly when needed and 2) OnPaint cleanup for newgame gui 20:42:00 <Yexo> that would be better if 1) should be backported, it's not really important though 20:42:16 <planetmaker> :-) 20:42:54 <planetmaker> I'll first see to getting it fixed. Then cutting it into two should be fairly simple 20:47:36 <SpComb> https://www.serverffs.com/gameservers/33/openTTD/ <-- curious 20:47:43 <SpComb> no mention of versions, though 20:49:34 <andythenorth> did I do good or bad :P http://wiki.openttd.org/Town 20:49:51 <andythenorth> it's a lot of words :o 20:51:07 <caribou|> Yexo, http://filebin.ca/srorth/KaoribouTransports25Aut2045.sav 20:51:09 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:54:14 <Yexo> caribou|: there is a one-way normal signal a bit further up that track, so it can't find a route 20:55:10 <caribou|> *facepalm* 20:55:13 <caribou|> thanks :/ 20:55:24 <Rubidium> SpComb: 0.7.5? 20:55:53 <caribou|> Yexo, oh no i thought i was locating the problem but i didn't 20:56:03 <caribou|> Yexo, you mean at chambéry ? 20:56:41 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: brb] 20:56:49 <Yexo> tile 35, 80 (use "scrollto 35 80" in the console to center at that tile) 20:58:05 <caribou|> Yexo, the one on the top of the crossroad ? 20:58:24 <Yexo> no, about 3 tiles to the bottom-right 20:59:49 <caribou|> Yexo, this http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/5813/thisbo.png ? 21:00:17 <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/Kaoribou%20Transports%2c%202045-08-25.png no, this one 21:00:49 <caribou|> Wow ! 21:00:58 <caribou|> hidden one, how do you hide the trees ? 21:02:26 <Yexo> ctrl+x to bring up the transparancy window 21:02:26 <andythenorth> wiki editing takes longer than writing code :o 21:02:36 <Yexo> or X to quickly toggle transparancy 21:03:01 <Yexo> after deleting that signal and starting the train you'll have to wait a while for the coal train in the tunnel to come out though 21:04:19 <caribou|> Yexo, ok thanks for the transparency window but it does not really tweak the transparency value, you have no tree at all ! 21:04:48 <caribou|> thank you i could have fought for hours with this totally hidden signal here :/ 21:04:50 <Yexo> the little green buttons under the bigger buttons 21:05:11 <caribou|> tssss 21:05:14 <caribou|> thanks :/ 21:06:43 <Yexo> http://wiki.openttd.org/Hidden_Features is nice to read through once 21:08:00 <Jolteon> Either I know a lot. 21:08:03 <Jolteon> or they're not that secret. 21:08:07 <Jolteon> hidden, rather. 21:08:08 <andythenorth> ooh 21:08:13 <andythenorth> auto-service is handy 21:08:44 <caribou|> nice page :D 21:09:12 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has quit [] 21:09:15 * andythenorth wonders about the equivalent of "A" for road building 21:09:30 <planetmaker> shift+f8 :-( 21:09:57 <caribou|> is there a way to say on a two way block, "ok the signal is red, you have to wait but don't go back" ? 21:10:07 <andythenorth> shift+f8 not quite the same 21:10:17 <Yexo> shift+F8, 3 21:11:06 <andythenorth> that works 21:11:17 <andythenorth> fricking fn keys on a laptop :| 21:11:24 <Yexo> caribou|: "set wait_twoway_signal 255" in the console changes the setting for your current game 21:11:36 <Yexo> use set_newgame to change it for newgames, or use set while in the main menu 21:11:41 * andythenorth suggest shift+A for autoroad 21:11:59 <Yexo> shift is normally cost estimation 21:12:03 <andythenorth> poop 21:12:08 <andythenorth> ctrl-A? 21:12:19 <caribou|> Yexo, thanks :D 21:12:22 <Yexo> dunno if that's used anywhere, probably not 21:12:47 <andythenorth> conflicts a bit with 'remove' if you already have autorail enabled....is that an edge case? 21:13:18 <planetmaker> it'd be weired and not matching the concepts 21:13:41 <Yexo> why would it conflict? as soon as you press ctrl+A it'd switch to road building 21:14:01 <Yexo> if you want to remove rail/road with ctrl you have to hold the key anyway, and not press A 21:16:27 * andythenorth searches hotkeys for an empty key that might in some way relate to roads :o 21:17:13 <planetmaker> andythenorth: rather implement custom hotkeys ;-) 21:18:05 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:18:15 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:19:00 <andythenorth> there's always a way to turn a 1c task into a dollar task :P 21:19:29 <andythenorth> or should that be a 1 euro task? 21:19:53 <Eddi|zuHause> a key to cycle through rail/road types could be handy 21:21:55 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@77.106.155.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:22:45 * andythenorth looks for free keys 21:23:39 * andythenorth forgot...ottd is a train game 9.9 21:24:19 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF88DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:27:37 *** Brin [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC] 21:32:14 *** tycoondemon [~thok@cc64025-c.hnglo1.ov.home.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:34:01 <andythenorth> what does "H" do? 21:34:06 <andythenorth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Hotkeys 21:34:17 <andythenorth> I've tested it, can't get any result 21:35:05 <peter1138> burns your fingers 21:35:08 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@ip-239-137-106-77.eidsiva.net] has joined #openttd 21:35:34 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has quit [] 21:35:36 <andythenorth> on this laptop there is actually a reasonable chance that could happen :P 21:35:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you need to have an order window open... 21:36:03 <andythenorth> I do 21:36:30 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:36:42 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it's outdated information 21:36:44 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 21:36:58 *** KouDy [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:39:59 <andythenorth> if "H" does nothing, it could open the auto-road tool :) 21:40:08 <andythenorth> and 'Y' could cycle road/rail types 21:41:03 <Yexo> both of these are annoying, as they're on the right-hand side of the keyboard (assuming qwerty layout) 21:41:33 * SmatZ likes ctrl+A, no matter it's not platfom-compatible (yes, I am selfish PC user) and non-unified 21:41:42 <SmatZ> oops, shift+A 21:42:00 <SmatZ> what about ctrl+A? 21:42:08 <andythenorth> I like ctrl+A 21:42:21 <Yexo> nothing is wrong with ctrl+A, I'd like it 21:42:27 <andythenorth> where is the code for hotkeys, or what should I search for? 21:42:31 <SmatZ> nice :-) 21:43:14 *** Sm0_ck [~thok@cc64025-c.hnglo1.ov.home.nl] has joined #openttd 21:44:20 <planetmaker> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3826/getfile/6106/newgame_onpaint_cleanup2.diff <-- Yexo updated version. But not yet separated. 21:44:49 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: something like "switch (keycode)" 21:44:52 <andythenorth> toolbar_gui.cpp to answer my own question 21:45:31 <Yexo> OnInvalidateData(); 21:45:31 <Yexo> <- missing this-> 21:46:25 *** Sm0_ck [~thok@cc64025-c.hnglo1.ov.home.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:46:32 <caribou|> i just wanted to reorganize a train station so i bombed it, and then the town is telling me that i can't build again, GNNN ? 21:47:05 <Yexo> planetmaker: and the OnInvalidateData after SetNewLandscapeType is not needed because SetNewLandscapeType already does that 21:47:24 <planetmaker> hm this-> is true :-) 21:47:37 <planetmaker> Yes... I thought I removed that. thanks 21:47:40 <Yexo> caribou|: easy to way work around that is to plant a bunch of trees to increase the station rating 21:47:49 <Yexo> planetmaker: last chunk in intro_gui.cpp 21:47:55 <caribou|> Yexo, thank you : 21:48:05 <planetmaker> ah, then I only removed it in genworld 21:49:53 *** Sm0_ck [~thok@cc64025-c.hnglo1.ov.home.nl] has joined #openttd 21:49:54 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [] 21:50:41 <caribou|> sorry again... i forgot to link my train station to my docks, is there a way to do that after having built it ? 21:50:44 *** orudge_ [~orudge@75-149-149-225-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:50:46 <andythenorth> hmm 21:50:58 <planetmaker> caribou|: no 21:51:04 <caribou|> ok :D 21:51:23 <andythenorth> I have ctrl-A opening the road toolbar, but it won't compile if I try and specify which button should be pressed (I'm copying from the autorail example) 21:51:26 <SmatZ> http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/road_gui.diff something like this 21:51:27 <planetmaker> I'd delete the dock, though 21:51:30 <SmatZ> but it IS broken :-p 21:51:41 <andythenorth> do I need to expand ShowBuildRoadToolbar 21:51:51 <SmatZ> because Ctrl is used for toggling Remove 21:53:41 <andythenorth> hmmm 21:53:50 <planetmaker> Yexo: updated version http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3826/getfile/6107/newgame_onpaint_cleanup3.diff 21:55:01 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 21:55:11 <Yexo> planetmaker: still missing the "this->" in several places 21:55:42 <Yexo> and you change the indentation of a line with only "}", it was correct 21:57:14 <Yexo> but if you split the patch in 2 parts I'll fix the remaining style issues and commit it 21:59:35 <planetmaker> hm... looks like the wrong patch version I uploaded 22:01:24 <SmatZ> yodaspeak :) 22:02:18 <planetmaker> :-) 22:03:55 <planetmaker> yes... wrong diff. hg diff -rXXX:tip doesn't consider the not-commited changes :S 22:04:33 <Yexo> you could try hg diff -rXXX, but I doubt that does what you want 22:05:19 <Yexo> hmm, that actually works 22:07:19 <planetmaker> actually yes 22:08:28 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc0cd5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:08:45 <planetmaker> I guess I split the patch after some sleep. That's better :-) 22:09:54 <andythenorth> SmatZ: ctrl-A....sort of works ok 22:10:05 <andythenorth> I don't find it confusing 22:11:00 <planetmaker> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3826/getfile/6108/newgame_onpaint_cleanup4.diff unsplit version. Split version will follow tomorrow. 22:11:16 <planetmaker> have a good night folks 22:11:22 <Rubidium> what about < and > to switch road/rail types? Or is that too tricky w.r.t. non-US-ish keyboard layouts? Also the need to press the shift? 22:11:26 <planetmaker> and thanks Yexo for your patience and comments :-) 22:11:35 <Yexo> np 22:11:37 <Yexo> good night planetmaker 22:11:53 <planetmaker> Rubidium: sounds fine for me 22:12:14 <Yexo> do we already use tab? can we use that to switch to next rail/road type? 22:12:51 <andythenorth> Rubidium: sounds good to me 22:12:55 <andythenorth> tab is fast-forward 22:12:56 <planetmaker> Yexo: that's rather usually reserved to switch between windows... 22:13:02 <planetmaker> anyway :-) 22:13:03 * planetmaker waves 22:13:12 <andythenorth> good night 22:13:16 <Yexo> not ctrl+tab or alt+tab, but just tab 22:13:19 <Nite_Owl> later planetmaker 22:13:30 <Rubidium> Yexo: tab = fast forward 22:13:36 <andythenorth> currently tab has a strange non-latching f-foward behaviour :o 22:13:37 <Yexo> ah, I forgot that one 22:13:44 <andythenorth> never noticed it before.... 22:13:58 <Rubidium> but only in release builds (I think) 22:14:01 <Yexo> I usually run a debug build and there shift is fast forward 22:14:10 <caribou|> entry PS > combo PS > combo PS > combo PS > exit PS is ok ? 22:14:48 <caribou|> on the wiki examples i can't find trees with more than 3 levels :/ 22:14:59 <Yexo> yes, that works 22:15:23 <caribou|> ok thanks 22:15:28 <Yexo> but usually replacing the entry signal with a pbs signal and removing all other signals is a lot easier 22:18:02 <andythenorth> good night 22:18:17 *** andythenorth [~andytheno@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 22:18:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i have never understood the reasoning of using a different FF key for debug and release 22:18:39 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and i never use fast forward... 22:19:59 <Yexo> I've never understood the reason for that either, but I often use FF when debugging 22:21:00 <Rubidium> I *think* it had to do with the alt-tab bug 22:21:08 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-74-109-51-111.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:47 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.17.240] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:22:05 <Eddi|zuHause> for a person like me, an unstripped but otherwise equivalent to release build is best 22:22:07 <Yexo> anyway, a hotkey to switch ff would be nice (as in, press the shortcut and ff is toggled) 22:22:15 <Yexo> currently tab/shift just enables is while pressed 22:22:44 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: msvc release build with pcb file available 22:23:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: you could try to argue a renaligning of the F##-keys with the toolbar 22:24:03 <Yexo> I should have thought of that before 1.0 22:24:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, my same thought ;) 22:24:29 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 22:25:38 *** russell_1 is now known as russell_h 22:26:14 <ccfreak2k> What is FF. 22:26:39 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: there aren't enough F## keys 22:27:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: you mean "we need more modificator keys" ;) 22:27:08 <Nite_Owl> Fast Forward ?? 22:27:32 <Rubidium> (although there weren't in the past either) 22:29:12 <Yexo> ctrl + FXX are unused 22:42:24 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC548B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!] 22:42:30 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 22:49:53 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:56:36 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... this survivor guy always quintuple-posts... it's way too much to read at once 22:56:46 *** lasershock [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:58:16 *** lasershock [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 23:01:46 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:03:02 <Rubidium> heh, you forgot that allocating objects on the heap means wasting at least 4 bytes for allocation metadata, not even speaking about the minimum allocation size of somewhere between 16 and 32 bytes depending on the platform 23:03:18 <Rubidium> and that an array of pointers is already almost as big as the current map array 23:03:33 <Rubidium> and *if* he wants a separate heightmap array, it is on 64 bits as big as the current map array 23:04:40 <Yexo> why is that? can't you have a byte-sized array on 64 bit platforms? 23:04:55 <Rubidium> Yexo: he can 23:05:05 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:05:13 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DAFA5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Regel Nr. 1: Jeder hört auf mein Kommando! - Regel Nr. 2: Jeder bleibt auf dem Weg! - Regel Nr. 3: ... ... Der, der blÀht, als hinterster geht!] 23:05:19 <Rubidium> but a pointer sized array + byte sized array == an 8 byte sized array + byte sized array (assuming 64 bits) 23:05:31 <Yexo> ah, that part :) 23:05:58 <Rubidium> also you seem to have missed my little profile digging of "yesterday" 23:06:12 <Yexo> I read some of that 23:06:26 <Yexo> pathfinding not being very espensive was part of it, the tileloop being very expensive 23:06:57 *** tintiri [~kyp@test.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 23:08:27 *** xOR is now known as xOR^CS 23:09:39 <Eddi|zuHause> pathfinding is not very expensive due to a template guru coming along a couple years ago ;) 23:10:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the (pseudo-)object oriented approach was kinda... not fast :p 23:11:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember discussions like "this will be even faster than the original pathfinder" :p 23:13:41 <Eddi|zuHause> soo... apparently we have a spammer amongst us... 23:14:38 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a "test.dnsbl.oftc.net"? 23:15:15 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-74-109-51-111.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 23:18:45 <__ln__> we do? 23:18:53 <lennard> yes, yes we do 23:20:03 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the last person to join before my statement... 23:23:18 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:23:58 <Ammler> I can confirm that spamer, #oftc is already sleeping, so the might be no global kill 23:24:16 <Progman> <tintiri> http://forum.soundarea.org - Bringing you the newest music around the web ! 23:24:28 <Ammler> never paste spam! 23:25:21 *** JostVice [~jostvice@85.136.129.22.dyn.user.ono.com] has left #openttd [] 23:26:06 <lennard> it sortof looks like its using an evil bug, too 23:26:18 <lennard> I mean, both hostname and whois ip are just wrong 23:26:58 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [] 23:27:35 <Rubidium> @kb tintiri 23:27:45 <Rubidium> oh... stupid bot 23:28:42 <ccfreak2k> Now is the day of your discount tent. 23:29:17 *** mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by ChanServ 23:29:19 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*kyp@*.dnsbl.oftc.net] by Rubidium 23:29:19 *** tintiri was kicked from #openttd by Rubidium [tintiri] 23:41:45 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:42:57 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn13-2-0-cust478.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:25 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.10.83.181] has quit [Quit: ãããã¿ãªãã] 23:53:05 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has left #openttd [] 23:53:26 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:53:39 *** fjb [~frank@p5485FA13.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:56:21 *** fjb [~frank@p5485FA13.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd