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00:01:18 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 00:13:24 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-251-33.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 00:15:42 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:16:02 <supermop> hello 00:16:47 <avdg> hi 00:22:41 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:24:27 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:26:05 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-102-78.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:45:09 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db19c9b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:34 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DE25.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:41 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.197.32] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 00:51:48 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 01:21:25 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21474 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Fix: some MSVC code analysis warnings in strgen 01:53:43 *** lugo [lugo@195.3.138.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:28:46 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:28:56 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8330.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:35:17 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:46:00 *** lugo [lugo@195.3.138.104] has joined #openttd 02:52:50 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know] 02:56:26 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:58:02 *** retro [~retro@125.151.broadband3.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 03:01:36 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:04:08 <juliano> hmm... 03:04:43 <juliano> 32bpp-anim seems broken if _screen->pitch != _screen->width 03:19:15 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:49:42 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 03:50:57 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:ed97:68fb:8ecd:1313] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:59:53 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-75-247.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 04:16:15 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:21:32 *** Netsplit magnet.oftc.net <-> reticulum.oftc.net quits: KingJ, @Yexo, retro, George, @planetmaker, eQualizer|dada, Priski, neli, Wizzleby, HerzogDeXtEr, (+35 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 04:21:35 *** Netsplit magnet.oftc.net <-> reticulum.oftc.net quits: polymorphZ, @DorpsGek, Mazur, lugo, tokai|mdlx, PulseNeon, Ammler, guru3, SirSquidness, SpComb^, (+31 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 04:26:23 *** PierreW [sbnc@bnc.peterbox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:30:18 *** Kurenin [~Kurenin@193.151.121.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:30:18 *** blathijs [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:30:42 *** boekabart [~bart@95.211.130.13] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:30:48 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:33:43 *** PierreW_ [sbnc@bnc.peterbox.net] has joined #openttd 04:33:43 *** blathijs_ [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 04:33:43 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 04:33:45 *** Netsplit over, joins: supermop, Dreamxtreme, lolman_, George, SpComb^, @Belugas, Sacro, SpComb, Andel, jonty-comp (+76 more) 04:33:45 *** LaSeandre__ [~Sean@5ad5969f.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 04:33:45 *** Kurenin [~Kurenin@193.151.121.42] has joined #openttd 04:33:45 *** boekabart [~bart@95.211.130.13] has joined #openttd 04:33:45 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 04:33:45 *** mode/#openttd [+o Terkhen] by ChanServ 04:35:43 *** LaSeandre__ [~Sean@5ad5969f.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:50:22 <PulseNeon> o.O 05:05:12 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 05:11:19 *** juliano [~juliano@201-42-209-21.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:33:03 *** lugo [lugo@195.3.138.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:56:03 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B737BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:20 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7362F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:09:51 <PulseNeon> Is it possible to make/buy extra trailers for road vehicles in OpenTTD? 06:19:29 <avdg> no, however, there are longer trucks/busses available in some sets 07:03:32 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.63.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:11:11 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 07:17:03 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 07:20:35 *** LordAro [56841a4e@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 07:21:47 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:22:23 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: wouldn't composited sprites for vehicles be a huge performance suck? 07:22:51 <Chrill> is there anyone who wants to host and play a lazy casual game of ottd? :D 07:29:21 <avdg> check openttdcoop 07:30:55 *** LordAro [56841a4e@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 07:33:57 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:48:22 *** thefiler [2987a392@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 07:48:33 <thefiler> hi there 07:48:51 <thefiler> i need some help resolving a problem which im having 07:49:36 <LordAro> go on then ;) 07:51:01 <thefiler> gameloadfailed 07:51:26 <thefiler> save game made with never version 07:51:37 <thefiler> I dont understand i've got the latest version installed 07:51:42 <LordAro> which version do you have? 07:52:24 <thefiler> v1.0.5 07:52:59 <thefiler> i really need to get that file open 07:53:00 <LordAro> the save was almost certainly made with a nightly version, where did you get the save? 07:53:52 <thefiler> i might have loaded a nightly version to check something wayback (2weeks ago), 07:54:24 <thefiler> i've basically moved ttd over to my new pc, and wanted to start playing again, when i notice the problem 07:54:24 *** KouDy [~KouDy@118.100.112.135] has joined #openttd 07:55:01 *** lugo [lugo@195.3.138.104] has joined #openttd 07:55:11 <LordAro> in that case the only way you're going to play that particular save is if: a) revert to an older version (autosave?) or b) load a nightly version 07:55:54 *** Brin [~KouDy@118.100.112.135] has joined #openttd 07:56:06 *** Brin [~KouDy@118.100.112.135] has quit [] 07:56:12 <thefiler> so i would be able to take autosave and make it into a scenario again 07:56:52 <LordAro> as long as the autosave was saved while in 1.0.5 07:56:52 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 07:57:44 <LordAro> http://wiki.openttd.org/images/f/fb/Version_Illustration.gif <-- this explains a lot about OpenTTD versions :) 07:58:39 <thefiler> it think i played in the previous version to what it out now 07:59:05 <LordAro> ? explain more please 07:59:06 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5A19.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:59:08 <thefiler> thanks let me try 08:01:44 <thefiler> i guest i just rename the autosave file to .scn 08:02:48 <LordAro> if you want it as a scenario... 08:04:14 <thefiler> yes... sorry for asking the stupid question... i just play the game for its such a good old classic. all these nightly things and add-ons confuses me alot a times :) 08:04:48 <thefiler> i try not to do too must when it comes to add extra stuff to the game play 08:04:57 <LordAro> well the obvious answer is don't use them...;) 08:05:42 <LordAro> the nightly will be merged with trunk for 1.1.0, which, by my estimations, shouldn't be too far away... 08:06:10 <LordAro> expecting it (in beta at least) sometime in 2011 08:06:19 <LordAro> don't quote me on that though :D 08:07:02 <LordAro> you'd be better off asking the devs, and probably even they don't know (haven't decided yet) 08:07:13 <LordAro> ...but we can live in hope :) 08:07:27 <SmatZ> LordAro: nightly == trunk 08:07:38 <SmatZ> 1.1 will be branched form trunk 08:07:45 *** murr4y [~murray@167.84-48-66.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 08:08:07 <LordAro> i meant that, i've got no idea why i wrote the other thing... 08:09:59 <thefiler> I still dont really know the differents between the two versions that good 08:10:19 <LordAro> see the picture link i posted above 08:10:41 <thefiler> i think the reason for me loading the nightly was, I didnt want any of my industries to close down, or go down in production... 08:10:42 <LordAro> and ignore anything i say on the subject :D 08:28:08 <thefiler> i wish that would make a copy and paste option... that would be so cool 08:35:44 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-248.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 08:37:55 <planetmaker> moin 08:39:28 *** PulseNeon [~pulse.neo@78.40.197.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:42:26 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:42:29 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:45:10 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-16-114-12.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:48:04 *** PulseNeon [~pulse.neo@78-40-197-182.dsl.alice.nl] has joined #openttd 08:57:30 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [] 08:57:42 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 09:02:03 <roboboy> evin 09:03:24 <Alberth> moin roboboy 09:24:42 <thefiler> is there no way to stop new industries from starting without using the nightly 09:29:50 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: wouldn't composited sprites for vehicles be a huge performance suck? <-- why would it be worse than for houses? 09:30:08 <andythenorth> I don't know 09:30:13 <andythenorth> it's a question :) 09:30:43 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19CDE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:31:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm the wrong person to judge that 09:31:33 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: vehicles are re-drawn much more often than houses 09:33:55 <planetmaker> also I don't quite understand why vehicle lights would need a separate sprite... 09:34:07 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:34:26 <Terkhen> good morning 09:36:09 <planetmaker> heya Terkhen 09:36:17 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: take the DBSet for example. most wagons are symmetric (4 sprites drawn), but also every such wagon [for every loading state] has to have a version with red lights, which is asymmetric [8 sprites necessary]. so it triples the amount of sprites 09:37:26 <planetmaker> adding more sprites per vehicle eats more cpu. That is IMHO more critical than this bit extra memory 09:37:54 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it's more about the drawing [lots of copy paste] than the memory 09:38:11 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: this assembled sprite may very well be cached by the game 09:38:25 <planetmaker> true that 09:38:50 <planetmaker> though it still feels to me as quite complicated. 09:39:51 <Eddi|zuHause> and George once said he got stuck with LV5 development because this wasn't possible 09:41:26 <planetmaker> sure it was that? 09:41:34 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 09:42:46 <Alberth> thefiler: afaik that is also the case with the released versions 09:45:45 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=832035#p832035 09:47:44 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: but his issue there is not the need to assemble the look of a vehicle. His need is to avoid glitches: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=830472#p830472 09:47:55 <planetmaker> where that is one of the solutions he proposed. 09:48:04 <planetmaker> Thus the attack vector is completely different 09:48:11 <andythenorth> it would for me be primarily be about load sprites 09:48:25 <andythenorth> which can be composited at the graphics stage, but I hate doing it :P 09:49:20 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: what does the reason why he wants it have to do with it? 09:49:53 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm179.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 09:50:15 <planetmaker> his desire might have much different solutions which might be much better suitable to it than multi-sprite vehicles 09:50:58 <andythenorth> another use would be to composite greeble onto ships 09:51:02 <andythenorth> but 09:51:15 <planetmaker> e.g. if he needs a sharp pencil and concludes to need a new one, a pencil sharpener might do the trick just as well 09:51:20 <andythenorth> I thought about this - compositing is available for industry tiles, but I don't use it much 09:51:27 <andythenorth> I could do snow for example by compositiing 09:51:38 <andythenorth> but it's ultimately simpler to just duplicate sprites 09:51:41 <andythenorth> simplicity wins :P 09:58:14 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:06:34 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:14:44 <thefiler> Alberth: ?? 10:15:50 <Alberth> (10:25:35) thefiler: is there no way to stop new industries from starting without using the nightly <-- response to that 10:17:13 * andythenorth is too busy micro-managing to connect even part of the map :( 10:17:24 <andythenorth> who's idea was it to allow industry production to increase? :P 10:18:07 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF81C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:19:08 <thefiler> sorry im dumb at this things... so with other word no... end of story 10:23:17 * andythenorth needs an AI that will run food service to towns (from FIRS industries) 10:24:22 <Alberth> thefiler: at least not at this moment, but patches are welcome :p you'll have to find a nice solution for the forced builds of industries though 10:29:08 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f6dcd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:34:36 <thefiler> noob question... so there is noway for me to set my industry not to change production 10:35:55 <Alberth> changing production is different from starting new industries 10:36:41 *** geb_ [~geb@FL1-110-233-177-171.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #openttd 10:37:52 <Alberth> there is a 'manual industries' newgrf that gives you full control over industries. (hmm, now that I think about it, maybe it also controls appearance of new industries, I don't know.) Have a look yourself! Its URL is in the FAQ somewehere 10:40:35 *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has joined #openttd 10:41:03 *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has left #openttd [] 10:44:58 *** Sydney [~Sydney@host246-236-dynamic.245-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 10:45:58 <andythenorth> improved? http://tt-foundry.com/misc/fish_improved.png 10:46:02 <andythenorth> (work in progress) 10:49:43 *** Sydney [~Sydney@host246-236-dynamic.245-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #openttd [Sto andando via] 10:51:22 <thefiler> Alberth: but with that "manual industries" newgrf you have to run it with nightly 10:53:35 <Alberth> there are two versions, according to this text: http://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_gameplay#How_to_disable_opening_and_closing_of_industries 10:55:43 *** fjb is now known as Guest817 10:55:45 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE285.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:00:30 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 11:00:30 *** George is now known as Guest819 11:00:30 *** George|2 is now known as George 11:01:25 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-248.dslextreme.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:02:31 *** Guest817 [~frank@p5DDFC98E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:05:45 *** Guest819 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:07:05 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 11:07:05 *** George is now known as Guest820 11:07:05 *** George|2 is now known as George 11:08:51 *** Guest820 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:11:01 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:11:38 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 11:12:38 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:13:50 <thefiler> Alberth: ill have look see... how long are you still going to be here 11:14:30 <Alberth> oh, 7-8 hours at least 11:16:45 <thefiler> cool, just need to start making lunch quickly then ill be back to test and ask for more help if you dont mind 11:24:49 <Alberth> I don't play that often, I tend to hack in the code instead :) Just ask in the channel, and someone will likely answer it (if they know an answer) 11:25:09 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-251-33.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 11:34:35 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21475 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix: MSVC's code analyser says DeleteObject shouldn't be called with NULL 11:37:19 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-75-247.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:37:55 <roboboy> can MSVC build for Win9x on NT based platforms? 11:38:31 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:38:36 *** geb_ [~geb@FL1-110-233-177-171.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: geb_] 11:39:09 <Rubidium> IIRC MSVC 2003 and earlier can 11:39:34 <roboboy> ok 11:39:53 <roboboy> won't bother then as I have MSVC 2008 11:40:19 <roboboy> although I think I have cds for MSVC 2003 Express somewhere 11:41:04 <Rubidium> I do assume that you want to use it to compile something else than OpenTTD though 11:41:27 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: frosch * r21476 /trunk/src/landscape.cpp: -Fix [FS#4299]: DC_FORCE_CLEAR_TILE should only add extra cost for clearing water for stuff which results in water after clearing. 11:42:44 <roboboy> well I did a course and I got the profesional edition of VS 2008 for free as part of the course. MS' licensce says so long as I do not sell my binaries commercialy I can build anything I like with it 11:43:23 <roboboy> that is their special student liscense 11:43:33 <Rubidium> I know :) 11:46:58 <roboboy> I might try to get MINGW/MSYS set up on my other machine once I get a new fan for it and then compile for (x and DOS 11:47:04 <roboboy> blah 9x 11:47:32 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 11:59:18 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:59:33 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 12:02:13 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@82.95.127.26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:04:37 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.197.32] has joined #openttd 12:18:50 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has joined #openttd 12:18:52 *** retro [~retro@125.151.broadband3.iol.cz] has left #openttd [] 12:33:19 <thefiler> :( 12:40:48 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 12:42:55 <thefiler> guys i really need help with disabling industries closing down... its annoying the living day lights out of me 12:43:17 <thefiler> or even new one's starting up 12:43:27 <thefiler> Alberth: you here 12:43:32 <planetmaker> service the industries. And they don't close 12:43:42 <planetmaker> or use manual industries newgrf 12:43:57 <thefiler> is imposible to service them all within the 5yrs 12:44:16 <thefiler> im trying to use the manual newgrf... i cant seem to get it to work 12:44:21 <Xaroth> not impossible, just.. highly unlikely :P 12:44:23 <thefiler> do i have to use nightly 12:44:33 <thefiler> Xaroth: lol 12:44:45 <Alberth> build less industries at first, or just let them close down, you'll get new ones 12:45:06 <Alberth> or use a smaller map :p 12:45:38 <thefiler> Alberth: dont wanna use a smaller map :( and I dont want new ones starting up... its screwing up my scn map :( 12:45:38 <planetmaker> yep 12:45:52 <planetmaker> thefiler: then indeed use the manual industries newgrf 12:46:22 <planetmaker> "not working" is not an acceptable problem description, btw 12:47:30 <thefiler> planetmaker: sorry for all the question would sound stupid to you guys... Im not so into the fine tuning of all these settings... i just wanna play the game my way lol. 12:47:48 <thefiler> planetmaker: so ill use the manual industries newgrf with nightly 12:47:50 <planetmaker> I don't mind questions. I mind people going "it doesn't work. What do I do wrong" 12:48:02 <thefiler> sorry 12:48:12 <planetmaker> as "doesn't work" is never a description of what you did or tried and what fails exactly 12:48:31 <Alberth> thefiler: no need to be sorry, just try to do better 12:48:32 <planetmaker> nor what you expect it to do actually. Might not even be a bug ;-) 12:48:32 <thefiler> ill try the nightly version and see what happens and report back in 5min 12:49:25 <Alberth> 5 year game time is about 60 minutes :) 12:49:33 <planetmaker> hehe ;-) 12:49:40 <planetmaker> except in FF :-P 12:50:13 * roboboy ponders playing a UKRS2 64x64 map wit 2 towns 12:50:29 <planetmaker> :-D 12:50:45 <frosch123> thefiler: you need to enable manual industries in the intro screen, and you have to start a new game with that 12:50:48 <planetmaker> might turn out difficult to make break even 12:50:54 <frosch123> you cannot add manual industries to a running game 12:51:29 <planetmaker> hm... outside it alternates between snow and rain. I guess I'm lucky I don't have to go outside. 12:51:39 *** tycoondemon [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Idealism is great until you realize that someone has to pay for it, and that someone is always, without exception, YOU.] 12:51:43 <roboboy> do newgrf presets get shared between versions installed? 12:51:49 <frosch123> manual industries 2 will also work in ottd 1.x with it's default settings, but there is no easy way to configure it 12:52:32 <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: yes, as long as they share the .cfg 12:52:33 <frosch123> roboboy: they are shared between those installations which share a openttd.cfg :p 12:52:46 <roboboy> ok 12:53:44 <planetmaker> roboboy: it's IMHO always a good idea to just use one cfg in the shared folder (like c:\documents\own files\Openttd - or however windows names that folder) 12:54:38 <roboboy> C:\Users\Username\My Documents\OpenTTD for me on Win7 12:54:51 <planetmaker> yeah, it varies by windows version 12:55:04 <planetmaker> and actually also by localization 12:55:30 <planetmaker> though there might be (hidden) symlinks to the English paths 12:57:10 *** tycoondemon [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 13:01:25 <roboboy> like C:\Documents and Settings\Username\My Documents on Vista plus 13:02:11 <roboboy> is it intended that station signs in the newspaper show the TTD style even if I have them set to be transparent 13:05:59 <roboboy> ? 13:06:26 <Xaroth> do they show transparent buildings? 13:06:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so 13:06:53 <roboboy> hm I geuse 13:07:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't even think it's possible, because you can't apply both the transparent-recolouring and the black&white-recolouring at the same time 13:08:03 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has left #openttd [Und weg...] 13:08:06 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 13:08:09 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 13:08:48 <peter1138> you still can't spell guess? heh 13:11:47 <thefiler> frosch123: will it work with a scn which was already been created pre-hand or not? 13:12:20 <frosch123> no, you would have to remove all industries from the map and replace them with those from manual industries 13:12:21 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:64c2:127d:b801:f3a] has joined #openttd 13:12:24 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:12:43 <roboboy> well TTDP manages to do it (show transparent station signs in the newspaper) but then it doesn't call it a transparency option 13:12:49 <thefiler> frosch123: so basically having to recreate the whole map 13:13:12 <frosch123> roboboy: it should also apply to the newspaper 13:13:30 <roboboy> not in my openttd game 13:15:29 <roboboy> I am running 1.0.5 13:16:03 <frosch123> hmm, it does not do it in mine either :p 13:18:24 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but then, which transparency options should be available in the newspaper as well? 13:18:32 <frosch123> the same? 13:18:42 <Alberth> none? 13:18:53 <Eddi|zuHause> something inbetween? 13:19:38 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:19:40 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 13:20:54 <b_jonas> there's a colored newspaper option, you can try that if you want to have the effects 13:21:35 <frosch123> oh, NWidgetViewport::Draw disables all transparencies 13:22:06 <roboboy> do we want consistency with TTDP? 13:22:09 <frosch123> ok, turns out all transparency options are explicitly disabled for the news 13:22:46 * roboboy has a poke in TTDP to see what else works 13:23:09 <frosch123> no idea who complained about transparency in news, but maybe it should preserve sign transparency 13:23:11 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe even force station signs to invisible on the news? 13:25:50 <b_jonas> the newspaper is printed by a company independent of your traffic company, it's no wonder they use different grapihcal conventions to show scenes and labels 13:26:53 <roboboy> in TTDP it obeys my "other" transparency settings 13:27:08 *** Markavian [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:27:28 <roboboy> I put other in quotes since TTDP doesn't include signs in it's transparency options 13:27:52 <roboboy> it puts that option with GUI options 13:30:05 <roboboy> it was me that complained 13:31:31 <frosch123> roboboy: it's Wolf01's fault 13:31:57 <frosch123> @commit 9563 13:32:01 <DorpsGek> frosch123: Commit by peter1138 :: r9563 /trunk (23 files in 4 dirs) (2007-04-05 07:49:04 UTC) 13:32:02 <DorpsGek> frosch123: -Feature: Add more finer control to transparency options, including a new toolbar, accessible from the map menu or Ctrl X. Patch by Wolf01. 13:32:28 <frosch123> previously only buildings ignored the transparency in the news gui 13:32:38 <roboboy> oh ok 13:33:38 <roboboy> hm well in TTDP they are shown in the news as transparent if they are set to transparent 13:34:31 <roboboy> I am only personaly concerned about the station names mainly though 13:35:25 <thefiler> thank you everyone for the help, I seem to have it working in nightly now, when i start a new scn or custom map. 13:35:31 <thefiler> i've got only two more noob questions. 13:35:52 <Alberth> just ask, no need to announce it :) 13:36:43 <thefiler> 1) having a pc with a i7 exterme and 24gb memory run sli wount make a differents on speed when going big and having 4000 trains etc etc 13:37:33 *** juliano [~juliano@201-42-209-21.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #openttd 13:37:38 <Alberth> 4000 trains !! oh man. yeah, that is going to be slow :) 13:37:52 <thefiler> 2) i wount be able to use that newgrf in normal openttd correct? 13:38:10 <Alberth> s/wount/won't/ 13:38:23 <thefiler> Alberth: combination of trains, planes, trucks etc etc 13:38:28 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:38:47 <Alberth> as I said before, there is a previous version that should run in normal openttd (ie 1.0.x) 13:39:22 <Alberth> thefiler: it is very well possible that you run into CPU limits, as OpenTTD is not multi-core 13:39:30 <peter1138> 24GB ram? gosh 13:39:32 <b_jonas> I think openttd can handle 4000 trucks even on an ordinary high-end PC with 1 GB memory and a fast cpu 13:39:34 * Rubidium waits for it... 13:39:44 <b_jonas> but 4000 trains might be harder 13:39:51 <b_jonas> still, I think 4000 isn't impossibly high 13:39:55 <SmatZ> depends how long those trains are 13:39:55 <Alberth> what the hack do you do with 24GB ? 13:39:56 <avdg> define fast cpu 13:39:58 <peter1138> 4000 boats? :D 13:40:09 <peter1138> a vm per core? 13:40:23 <peter1138> aww, no r21476 servers ;( 13:40:41 <peter1138> i can't remember how to play 13:40:44 <SmatZ> there's a limit of 65000 vehicles in total (incliding wagons) 13:40:46 <peter1138> do i have to make a pickaxe first? 13:41:00 <b_jonas> avdg: if you really want that, let's say an Intel Core2 1.86 GHz with 2M cache 13:41:06 <SmatZ> [14:40:44] <SmatZ> there's a limit of 65000 vehicles in total (incliding wagons) <== actually, no 13:41:09 <Rubidium> SmatZ: you're lagging 13:41:15 <SmatZ> Rubidium: indeed :) 13:41:20 <SmatZ> @base 16 10 0xFF000 13:41:20 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: 1044480 13:41:25 <SmatZ> ok, 1 mil :) 13:41:30 <avdg> hmm 1.86 13:41:37 <avdg> thats kinda nuts 13:42:05 <avdg> 2.53 and lagging at arround < 3k trains 13:43:29 <b_jonas> well, I haven't actually tried 4000 vehicles 13:43:34 <b_jonas> it might be lagging 13:43:50 <b_jonas> but it uses very few cpu time with like 600 vehicles and a not too large map 13:43:52 <Rubidium> oh, come on... ever tried 5000 RVs in a single depot on some old OpenTTD? 13:43:54 <b_jonas> mostly trucks 13:43:56 <Rubidium> now *that* is slow 13:44:09 <Rubidium> when they try to exit the depot 13:44:17 <peter1138> heh, yeah 13:44:28 <avdg> lol 13:44:44 <b_jonas> Rubidium: there's a sell all button 13:45:06 <b_jonas> then build 10 depots and buy one tenth of them in each depots 13:45:57 <Rubidium> b_jonas: you have no clue what I'm referring to, have you? 13:46:57 <roboboy> is there a hotkey for clone vehicle? 13:49:45 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> do i have to make a pickaxe first? <-- actually you need a workbench to make a pickaxe 13:50:31 <Eddi|zuHause> so what you really need to do is cut a tree with your bare hands. yay realism :p 13:54:33 *** wollollo [~martin@client-80-4-252-58.cht-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #openttd 13:58:41 * roboboy needs to go to bed soon 14:14:40 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21477 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Fix [FS#4300]: tooltips were removed when their related window got closed 14:15:55 <avdg> :) 14:18:46 <oliver_> ch 14:21:30 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:21:49 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:21:51 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 14:28:43 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 14:46:54 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21478 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt order_gui.cpp): -Change [FS#4297]: improve some order related tooltips. Based on patch by Krille 14:51:38 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: frosch * r21479 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Fix (r9563): Keep transparency for textual stuff in newspaper. 14:52:24 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:52:41 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:55:54 <thefiler> is there any shortcuts to maxing all industries production without having to go one for one and do it? 14:56:36 <Rubidium> compiler or hex editor on the savegame 14:56:51 <thefiler> sounds complicated 14:58:04 <avdg> use cheats 14:58:27 <Rubidium> avdg: cheats are a per-industry thing 14:58:36 <avdg> true 14:58:40 <Rubidium> he needs to modify OpenTTD (or his savegame) 15:00:03 <thefiler> Rubidium : would you mind giving me an example to how I would do it? 15:03:05 <Rubidium> rig the industry production determination code so it only goes up, and goes up every time. Then make sure that method is called a few times upon industry construction 15:03:20 <Rubidium> the rest I leave to you 15:03:35 <Alberth> :) 15:04:38 <thefiler> ok... 15:04:38 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 15:04:51 <thefiler> cant one build in nigthly in pause mode? 15:05:21 <Alberth> if your advanced settings allow it, yes 15:05:58 <Alberth> it is a quite recent change though 15:06:38 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 15:09:37 <thefiler> thank you 15:11:54 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-69-51.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 15:13:38 <Ammler> couldn't a newgrf also do this job? 15:14:56 <Alberth> do newgrfs know the game is paused? afaik they don't 15:17:01 <frosch123> Ammler: no, you would first have to remove all industries from the game 15:17:57 <thefiler> is there no way to modify newgrf in nightly, per scn or game 15:18:10 <Lakie> frosch123: I think it might be possiblew to simpify your diff slightly. 15:18:30 <frosch123> the ttdp diff? no idea :) 15:18:52 <SmatZ> thefiler: there is, but it's hidden 15:18:55 <Lakie> Shouldn't just retreiving the value for 1C work? 15:19:08 <frosch123> i need to pass the accumulator to the other function, but eax is already used there 15:19:16 <Lakie> Or does that not get processed correctly in 'advanced action2s' 15:20:20 <frosch123> 1c is set at the end of the whole varact2, not inbetween 15:21:08 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21480 /trunk/src/window.cpp: 15:21:08 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: -Change [FS#4292]: make it possible to start actions that require selecting 15:21:08 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: stuff (landscaping, vehicle cloning, etc) in the viewport while paused. As 15:21:08 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: side-effect you'll get an error message explaining the command can't be executed 15:21:08 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: because the game is paused instead of seemingly nothing happening when you 15:21:10 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: click. Addition side effect of this is that you can make use of the measurement 15:21:10 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: tooltip while paused 15:21:40 *** lasershock [lasershock@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -] 15:21:55 <Lakie> Hmm, that's somewhat more troublesome 15:22:03 <polymorphZ> they-ho 15:22:50 <thefiler> SmatZ: how do i unhide it... 15:23:26 <SmatZ> thefiler: are you a newgrf developer? 15:23:50 <Yexo> doesn't the scenario developer setting also enable it? 15:23:57 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc28ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:24:02 <SmatZ> Yexo: true... 15:24:28 <frosch123> Yexo: SmatZ: that does not help for industry grf either 15:24:59 <SmatZ> I am just not sure if telling everyone how to enable it won't break the purpose of that patch, to allow to change newgrfs only for people who know what they are doing 15:24:59 <thefiler> SmatZ: no im a noob with this stuff 15:25:13 <SmatZ> thefiler: so don't change grfs in a running game/scenario 15:25:20 <SmatZ> it will most likely break the game 15:27:26 <peter1138> oh balls 15:27:28 <peter1138> kernel oops :s 15:27:34 <SmatZ> :x 15:27:42 <peter1138> just by unplugging a usb device... 15:27:54 <glx> <frosch123> i need to pass the accumulator to the other function, but eax is already used there <-- push/pop ? 15:28:08 *** lasershock [lasershock@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 15:29:51 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:40:12 <Ammler> is it intended that roads are stay but bridges and tunnels disapear with bankrupt company? 15:40:21 <Ammler> -are 15:40:55 <SmatZ> yes 15:41:17 <Ammler> why? 15:41:23 <Lakie> I suppose one could store a byte variable, moving eax into it just after the push, then retrieve it later 15:41:24 <SmatZ> it has always been that way 15:41:45 <Ammler> so it isn't wanted, it just is that way :-) 15:42:03 <Lakie> Did you intend 0x7B to be usable without structure and such, similar to 0x7D+ 15:42:13 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... so "features" have now been promoted to "side-effects"? ;) 15:42:18 <thefiler> i dont understand why two industry are still being build even thou is been disabled by the newgrf 15:43:00 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc28ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:44:46 <thefiler> that why i want to be able to modify or remove newgrf from set menu to see whats causing this problem of mine 15:47:36 <Yexo> adding that newgrf to an existing game won't work properly 15:48:00 <Yexo> that's exactly why you can't modify or remove newgrf in-game 15:49:47 <thefiler> and what about a scn 15:50:00 <thefiler> which has just been saved? 15:50:32 <Yexo> scenario = running game 15:50:37 <Yexo> for ths purpose at least 15:50:43 <frosch123> Lakie: yes, 7b shall work always 15:50:53 <frosch123> there is no reason it should not 15:51:21 <Lakie> Well, the 60+x var would likely be the place it could break. 15:51:22 <frosch123> i.e. it only depends on the parameter variable whether it can be used 15:52:10 <frosch123> hmm? what shall break? 15:54:13 <Lakie> Unsure, reading and trying ti follow it all 15:54:34 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 15:55:48 *** lugo [lugo@195.3.138.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:56:06 *** PulseNeon [~pulse.neo@78-40-197-182.dsl.alice.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:58:45 <frosch123> hmm, maybe " cmp al, 0x7D" needs some care 16:00:36 <frosch123> maybe the stuff i added to getspecparamvar needs to be moved to getvariationalvariable instead 16:00:44 <frosch123> so it can check the 'parameter' for availability 16:01:28 <Lakie> I was thinking about that 16:02:51 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/IndirectAddressing_ttdp.diff <- updated 16:03:24 <Lakie> That looks like a more logical place for it 16:03:26 <frosch123> btw... does it compile? i do not know whether the "uvard" needs to be first 16:03:43 <Lakie> Shouldn't matter as to order unlike C++ 16:04:08 <Lakie> Though I think I'd change it to a uvarb. 16:04:20 <frosch123> it is 32bit 16:04:25 <Lakie> Aye 16:04:34 <Lakie> But we only want the lowest 8 bits? 16:04:59 <frosch123> ah, ok, but then you need to keep the push/pop :) 16:05:07 <Lakie> Yup 16:05:10 <frosch123> btw. for ottd we have some cases to use 32bit parameter 16:05:45 <Lakie> Hmmm... then you should take those values from the registers? 16:06:15 <frosch123> yes 16:06:42 <frosch123> store the parameter in the accumulator, then use 7b to get a 60+x variable using a 32bit parameter 16:06:55 <Lakie> Hmmm. 16:07:30 <frosch123> but the 'one' usecase (vehicle var 60) we have so far does not apply to ttdp 16:07:35 <Lakie> TTDPatch would only pass ah. 16:07:57 <Lakie> And I'd prefer not to rewrite all the grf system... 16:08:23 <frosch123> you do not have to :) 32bit paramters are rarely useful 16:08:30 <Lakie> Heh 16:08:46 <Lakie> They should be in registers and not the next bytes anyway 16:09:00 <Lakie> (The latter is already flexible) 16:09:08 <Lakie> former* 16:09:58 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know] 16:10:22 <Yexo> it's flexible, but also more work (especially if you want to do "var A + var B(3)" (where 3 is the parameter for var B). It would require to store the value of var A, store the param, get var B and than add the value of A again 16:12:08 <Lakie> I guess, I will only be supporting 8 bits though, as 32bit would require vast rewrites... 16:13:41 <frosch123> hmm, you could also call the uvard variable "variationalparamter" and store either the accumulator or "cl" in it 16:14:02 <frosch123> then the few (if any) variables could obtain the parameter from the variable instead from cl 16:15:43 <Lakie> Um, problem is thats based on the 60+x being used in a chain? 16:16:22 <frosch123> well, for the first variable only "cl" works 16:20:12 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/IndirectAddressing_ttdp_v2.diff <- something like that 16:20:45 <frosch123> btw, why does asm not have a ? : operator :p 16:20:58 <Lakie> Heh, comes from a time before it? 16:21:45 <Lakie> cmp, jcc, mov, jmp, mov, 16:21:57 <Lakie> Thats the closest I can think of 16:24:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think such an operator has a lot of uses on asm level ;) 16:25:27 <Lakie> Heh 16:25:42 <Markavian`> sleep, or coffee 16:27:02 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 16:27:09 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [] 16:28:17 * jonty-comp is home for christmas \o/ 16:28:36 <Eddi|zuHause> ... christmas is another 2 weeks away... 16:31:50 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:35:29 <fjb> ARM has optional conditions in each command. So it has an inplicite ? : operator. 16:36:35 *** lolman [~lolman@188-220-249-105.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:38:41 *** lolman_ [~lolman@188-220-249-105.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:40:49 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc28ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:42:17 <Eddi|zuHause> but TTDPatch is not written in ARM assembler... 16:42:56 *** wollollo [~martin@client-80-4-252-58.cht-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:44:06 <Lakie> Its written in x86 assembly. 16:44:13 <Lakie> (with some c) 16:46:13 *** thefiler [2987a392@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 16:52:53 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 16:54:15 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:54:37 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 17:03:19 <avdg> hmm, how do you guys learn asm? 17:03:44 <avdg> (strange that asm is getting more and more readable for me) 17:03:54 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 17:09:11 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:09:48 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:09:54 <Alberth> just use it 17:09:56 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm179.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:13:44 <Alberth> unfortunately, I never programmed x86 17:14:32 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 17:22:13 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21481 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: make rail conversion make use of TILE_AREA_LOOP as well 17:22:29 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21482 /trunk/src/landscape.cpp: -Codechange: make landscape clearing make use of TILE_AREA_LOOP as well 17:28:50 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to reduce the number of "make"s in the commit messages ;) 17:30:53 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@88-134-59-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 17:31:45 <IchGuckLive> hi all ,i got a message city is building a bank ! do i need 2 banks for transporting things ? 17:34:34 <IchGuckLive> here -> http://wiki.openttd.org/Bank it only eyplains the founding 17:34:53 <Alberth> if 'things' is valuables, then quite likely yes, unless you have diamond mines, in which case a bank will accept diamonds from the mine 17:35:42 <Alberth> did you notice the clickable cargoes ? 17:35:51 <IchGuckLive> ok so i got to wait for the next bank to be build by a city 17:36:02 <Alberth> or fund your own bank 17:36:21 <IchGuckLive> clickable cargoes 17:36:23 <frosch123> in temperate you need a population of 1200 for a bank or so 17:36:37 <Alberth> hmm, not "your own", but "another" 17:36:38 <Rubidium> :D 17:36:40 <planetmaker> last time I transported valuables the helicopter doing the transport made an annual loss of 1 million ;-) 17:36:52 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21483 /trunk/src/station.cpp: 17:36:52 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: -Codechange: make StationRect::ScanForStationTiles make use of TILE_AREA_LOOP. 17:36:52 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: Making use of make makes me making use of my brain to determine whether I make 17:36:52 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: use of tautology, or make use of pleonasm, or make use of both, or even make use 17:36:52 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: of neither 17:37:07 <Alberth> it didn't get off the ground ;) 17:37:30 <Spoons> ... commit message. 17:37:41 *** Spoons is now known as FauxFaux 17:37:48 <planetmaker> Alberth: it did. It even was at air speed 1/1 17:37:53 <planetmaker> and a reasonable distance 17:38:03 <supermop> i think that was a pun, planetmaker 17:38:20 <Alberth> (18:37:15) IchGuckLive: clickable cargoes <-- in the "accepts" box 17:38:20 <planetmaker> But... annual running costs of the helicopter were at like 1.500.000 per year or so ;-) 17:38:27 <planetmaker> It also costs 45.000.000 to buy 17:38:46 <Alberth> a bit inflation :) 17:38:55 <planetmaker> (we allow air vehicles on our stable server, but make them a pure luxury item. No inflation applied) 17:39:07 <planetmaker> just base cost mods a bit extreme 17:39:35 <Alberth> just for fun thus :) 17:39:47 <planetmaker> yep :-) I bought it just because ;-) 17:39:58 <IchGuckLive> Thanks i will go on with my first real game after 3years im now on 800T income a year no cheeds in place 4subsedies running 17:40:32 <IchGuckLive> i play random 55555555 1jan2000 17:40:54 <Alberth> yeah, that looks like a random number :) 17:41:03 <IchGuckLive> most used key F1 17:41:23 <IchGuckLive> no i gif it the random my own 17:41:40 <IchGuckLive> the all 5 lookt the best map 17:41:49 <Alberth> why do you pause so often? 17:42:01 <IchGuckLive> save time 17:42:10 <Alberth> if you let it run, you still have 24 real-world hours game time 17:42:14 <IchGuckLive> to open the menues 17:42:32 <planetmaker> what do you gain by pausing? 17:42:41 <planetmaker> You can play up to the year 5000000 17:42:41 <IchGuckLive> to place trhe orders you do not ned run 17:43:02 <Alberth> it saves 2 game days each time :) 17:43:05 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@203.39.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 17:43:48 <Alberth> @calc (5000000 - 1950) * 13.5 / 60 / 24 / 365 17:43:48 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 128.374571918 17:44:01 <Alberth> oh a mere 128 years :) 17:44:07 <IchGuckLive> the overview is more good to get things done in pause mode 17:44:56 <frosch123> maybe all the daylength stuff can be solved when the game speed in controled by the bank balance :p 17:45:02 <IchGuckLive> ok i will go on thanks for the info on Bank's 17:45:07 <frosch123> the more money you get the slower everything runs 17:45:47 <Alberth> have fun IchGuckLive 17:45:54 <IchGuckLive> Bye till i got my next question 17:46:10 <planetmaker> frosch123: then I'd play in Yen or lira. 17:46:15 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@88-134-59-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]] 17:46:22 <planetmaker> ;-) 17:46:31 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: reminds me of my first TT game... i didn't get beyond 1940 [10 years game time], because everything got so extremely slow :p 17:46:57 <frosch123> planetmaker: i only care about real values :p 17:47:13 <planetmaker> hehe :-) 17:48:22 <avdg> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KoCzUI0eyg <- nice fountain 17:49:35 <ABCRic> Indeed 17:52:59 <Eddi|zuHause> ERROR: unable to download video (format may not be available) 17:54:43 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 17:54:49 <Rubidium> avdg: yeah, it's cool. But it looks even better IRL :) 17:55:01 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... update of youtube-dl seems to work ;) 17:55:12 <avdg> and it does already look crazy :p 17:56:07 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-75-247.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 17:59:52 <Rubidium> avdg: I like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDkQyKge-aE as well, though it's way simpler it's quite useful :) 18:00:17 <Rubidium> I actually watched that clock for a few minutes just because it was something I didn't see before 18:00:47 <avdg> lol 18:01:08 <Rubidium> it's, like the CanalCity waterfall also in Fukuoka 18:01:36 <Rubidium> oh, and the steak I had in CanalCity was pretty nice, though a tad too big for my appetite that day 18:01:49 <planetmaker> interesting clock :-) 18:04:50 <andythenorth> how do I get into this coop game with HEQS? 18:05:47 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21484 /trunk/src/terraform_gui.cpp: -Codechange: use TILE_AREA_LOOP in CommonRaiseLowerBigLand 18:07:55 <frosch123> andythenorth: you join #openttdcoop channel and bother their bot for the password 18:08:53 <planetmaker> andythenorth: stable or public server? 18:09:52 <planetmaker> hm, stable server 18:10:05 <planetmaker> andythenorth: just compile OpenTTD 1.0.5 and then join the server 18:10:28 <planetmaker> It runs HEQS 0.9.5 - and that's what you're after, I guess. The other runs a toyland2mars conversion 18:11:43 <planetmaker> svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/1.0.5 && ./configure && make run 18:16:15 <andythenorth> svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.openttd.org': No route to host 18:16:31 <andythenorth> this is why I never play mp :) 18:16:37 <planetmaker> eh? 18:16:41 <andythenorth> I can never get the right build 18:17:19 <planetmaker> the host is up and running. Any firewall which blocks something? 18:17:47 <Alberth> andythenorth: http://www.openttd.org/en/download-stable <-- also has the sources of 1.0.5 18:18:27 <planetmaker> wasn't there something with an improper newgrf version there? 18:18:43 <Yexo> that's only a problem for nightly versions 18:19:04 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21485 /trunk/src/object_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: use CircularTileSearch to find whether there's a transmitter nearby 18:19:08 <planetmaker> andythenorth: does checkout via http work? 18:19:23 <planetmaker> svn co http://svn.openttd.org/tags/1.0.5 18:19:37 *** lugo [lugo@195.3.138.104] has joined #openttd 18:20:06 <andythenorth> co over http works 18:23:52 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21486 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: use TILE_AREA_LOOP for station expansion checks as well 18:24:11 <planetmaker> andythenorth: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/GRF (Version 8.0) <-- I guess you'll need the grfpack 18:32:20 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.63.147] has joined #openttd 18:32:54 <andythenorth> any opinions? Or shall I just get on with it to my own taste? http://tt-foundry.com/misc/fish_improved.png 18:32:57 <Lakie> Rubidium: I've noticed a small inconsistancy 18:33:10 <andythenorth> ^^ colours, not boat size 18:33:25 <Lakie> With no objects with property 17 defined the preview width is smaller than with any objects with property 17 defined 18:33:49 <Lakie> (I mean than with any grf with ...) 18:34:19 <planetmaker> improved is nicer, yes 18:34:41 <planetmaker> might alternatively be grey-ish 18:35:23 <planetmaker> does building 1.0.5 work? 18:35:41 <andythenorth> planetmaker: could be 2cc, but might be.....garish 18:36:02 <andythenorth> I could adjust the colours of the hatches also 18:36:05 <planetmaker> or randome re-colour ;-) 18:36:08 <planetmaker> -e 18:36:29 <planetmaker> there's a re-colouring for brown available, used by houses and bridges. You could use that ;-) 18:36:35 <Rubidium> Lakie: property 17 doesn't matter. There's nothing that says it has 2 or 4 that does matter 18:36:53 <Rubidium> and in that case it isn't needed to show such a big window 18:37:23 <Lakie> Ok 18:38:04 <andythenorth> planetmaker: recoloring is out due to use of 2CC :P 18:38:30 <planetmaker> he, ok :-) 18:42:22 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc28ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:49 *** LadyHawk [LadyHawk@office01.ldhosting.com] has joined #openttd 18:45:50 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: translators * r21487 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed) 18:45:50 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:50 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: english_US - 5 changes by Rubidium 18:45:50 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_ 18:45:50 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: french - 5 changes by glx 18:45:51 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: german - 4 changes by planetmaker 18:45:51 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: hungarian - 10 changes by IPG 18:45:56 <LadyHawk> hello again 18:46:14 <LadyHawk> i have 2 questions about ottd 1.0.5 18:46:20 <LadyHawk> (no nightlies) 18:46:46 <LadyHawk> first one is... sometimes when news is being delayed, and one of the industries has an imminent closure.. is there a way to get to the location if the industry in question has already disappeared? 18:47:20 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21488 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_tilelist.cpp: -Codechange: make use of TILE_AREA_LOOP in the tile list AI API 18:47:27 <Yexo> if clicking on the news message doesn't work: probably not 18:47:56 <LadyHawk> no it doesn't unfortunately.. would that be something that could be possible in future? 18:48:11 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a misfeature: "paper" news get delayed while ticker is running 18:48:20 <LadyHawk> hold on 18:48:43 <LadyHawk> ah, it only works when you click on the text of the news paper 18:48:53 <LadyHawk> cool that one's answered then XD 18:48:59 <LadyHawk> the other question would be.. 18:49:36 <LadyHawk> when using the settings breakdowns none, and disable servicing when breakdowns none enabled, is there a way to prevent trains going for servicing by themselves when you set their locomotive on the auto-replace list? 18:50:17 <LadyHawk> a few days ago i was here about a possible bug when sending 1 group for servicing, but i've found out it's because they decide to go themselves without being told 18:50:27 <LadyHawk> because of the auto replace list 18:50:32 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, they do that. 18:50:42 <LadyHawk> can i turn that off somewhere? 18:50:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think there's a setting for that 18:51:03 <LadyHawk> it's very annoying they decide to go wherever they please for servicing, rather than follow the depot on their own route 18:51:33 <LadyHawk> i'd like to turn it off so i can send 1 group at a time, and not all at once 18:51:41 <peter1138> hmm 18:51:45 <peter1138> this might be a silly question 18:51:52 <peter1138> but did transport empire ever get off the ground? 18:52:05 <SpComb> not that I know of 18:52:50 <frosch123> i think it got further than p1sim 18:54:47 <LadyHawk> 2 groups of ~70 trains on different tracks, come together on a single station, 1 group depots at station, the other has its own forced 'depot block'. auto replace their loco, group 2 should go to depot on their own route, rather than have all 140 trains trying to depot at the station because they decide to go for servicing on their own 18:55:23 <LadyHawk> is this some feature i'd be able to put on the suggestion boards, to disable their own will for servicing when you set their loco on auto-replace? 18:55:39 <SpComb> I think as a commercial release it would be a failure 18:55:41 <planetmaker> add explicit depot orders 18:55:47 <SpComb> oh wait 18:55:48 <SpComb> TE? 18:55:52 <SpComb> I thought TG 18:56:13 <LadyHawk> i can't do that, depot block is a path signal to whichever of 4 depots on the route is available.. i set a direct depot order, and i lose the ability to let trains go to the available one 18:56:23 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:56:28 <LadyHawk> 1 depot on the route is way too slow for all 70 trains to get past 18:56:52 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: use conditional order and a waypoint 18:57:44 <LadyHawk> could you give me a link to read up on conditional orders like that? 18:58:15 <LadyHawk> the settings i have work fine right now except for the fact that they go for servicing when it's disabled in settings... purely due to the auto-replace list 18:58:40 <LadyHawk> but if a conditional order gives the same effect i'll try to use that as a workaround 18:59:26 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: key point here is, after this waypoint you can safely use a "go to random depot" order 18:59:47 <Alberth> LadyHawk: just serach the wiki using 'conditional order' 19:00:03 <LadyHawk> and using something like this, will stop trains from going for servicing when i stick their loco on the auto-replace list? 19:00:47 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: use the "exclude this group from autoreplace" button in the vehicle list 19:00:52 <LadyHawk> auto-replace makes them go to the first depot in sight on their own, it's why i'm wondering right now whether this order-alternative is going to make any difference 19:01:04 <LadyHawk> sec let me find that button :o 19:01:42 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: when a train has a depot order, it won't go to any depots not covered by this order 19:02:06 <Eddi|zuHause> but it still goes to depot if it gets to that order. 19:02:08 <LadyHawk> 'click to protect this group from global autoreplace' << this button you mentioned? 19:02:15 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: yes. 19:02:41 <LadyHawk> great stuff, that'd sort out my issue 19:02:50 <LadyHawk> the tool tip help wasn't very informative ;) 19:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: you're welcome to make suggestions how to improve it ;) 19:04:05 <LadyHawk> i would first need to know exactly what it does... whether it just ignores those trains alltogether and never replaces them, or it replaces them when they happen to get into a depot 19:04:24 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: it never replaces them 19:04:29 <Yexo> LadyHawk: about the other part of your problem: just enable autoreplace only for a single group (assuming you've already grouped your trains) 19:04:33 <LadyHawk> that's not what i look for then 19:04:43 <LadyHawk> i'll look into this order thing 19:04:57 <LadyHawk> conditional depot orders 19:05:38 <LadyHawk> i want the auto-replace, just not the 'i'm going for servicing whether i'm specifically told to NOT service at all' 19:05:53 * LadyHawk digs wiki 19:06:07 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: to prevent trains from ever going to depot, use something like this: "1: goto A, 2: goto B, 3: unconditional jump to 1, 4: goto depot" 19:06:29 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: the order 4 will never be active, unless you explitcitly set it 19:07:47 <LadyHawk> i'd need something like 'if 1 free -> goto 1, elseif 2 free -> goto 2, elseif 3 free -> goto 3, elseif 4 free -> goto 4, else repeat from condition 1 19:08:35 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: to allow trains to go to depot when autoreplace is set, but make it a specific depot only, use something like: "1: goto A, 2: goto B, 3: go to waypoint "before-depot-switch", 4: if not needs servicing - jump to 1, 5: go to waypoint "after-depot-switch", 6: go to depot" 19:09:01 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: there is no "if free" order 19:09:20 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: you need to allow the pathfinder to automatically figure out which depot is free 19:09:20 <LadyHawk> http://ladyhawk.flawlesscorruption.net/screens/depots.PNG 19:09:27 <LadyHawk> it's the setup i use currently, without any order 19:09:39 *** tycoondemon [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Idealism is great until you realize that someone has to pay for it, and that someone is always, without exception, YOU.] 19:11:01 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: yes, in the above example, put the "before-waypoint-switch" on the mainline, and the "after-depot-switch" waypoint before the path signal in the picture. then use a "goto random depot" order. it should work exactly like before 19:11:50 <LadyHawk> thanks a lot for this explenation, i'm going to try that right now :D 19:12:45 <Eddi|zuHause> to make it safe you should have "waypoint - empty tile - path signal" 19:12:58 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:13:10 <Eddi|zuHause> where "empty tile" might be a signal as well 19:13:16 <LadyHawk> and once that's done i'll be testing to see if this auto-replace list still makes them go into the first depot in sight or whether they stick to their order 19:13:19 <LadyHawk> ok will do :) 19:13:57 *** tycoondemon [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:17:38 <LadyHawk> i see the goto nearest depot order, not to random one.. i'll play about a bit with it 19:19:15 <LadyHawk> seems to work brilliantly 19:21:38 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: "nearest" is "random", in the sense that the pathfinder penalties differ depending on where the trains have reserved tracks ;) 19:21:59 <LadyHawk> as for the tooltip help on that 'protect group from global autoreplace'... maybe something more informative would be 'exclude group from global auto-replace' 19:22:17 <LadyHawk> 'protect' could mean a lot of things is this instance :) 19:22:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i agree 19:23:56 <LadyHawk> the pathfinder seems to be quite smart, it's hard to figure out everything it takes into account just by watching trains' behaviour on junctions 19:24:37 <LadyHawk> lol 19:25:09 <peter1138> hmm, weird 19:25:15 <andythenorth> what is this 'protect group' feature? :o 19:25:19 <peter1138> watching this program on quest "american hot rod" or something 19:25:26 <peter1138> and they pronounce "chassis" with a hard c... 19:26:04 <planetmaker> they also say aluminum without two I 19:26:16 <peter1138> hmm, not hard c, but not the usual way 19:27:00 <LadyHawk> 'protect group' excludes a group of trains from the auto-replace list, they wont be replaced automagicly.. i didn't know until just now XD 19:28:01 * andythenorth learns something 19:28:17 <andythenorth> what is the crazy 'upgrade' button for in depots? I click it often, but to no avail.... 19:28:32 <LadyHawk> going to test the stubbornity of auto-replace against a depot order to see if they stop going to the first depot in sight now 19:31:05 <LadyHawk> and they all drove past the first depot they saw, and went to their ordered one.. nice! 19:31:17 <LadyHawk> now i can go implement this and change orders of about 70 trains lol 19:31:40 <planetmaker> if you need to update every train individually you do something wrong ;-) 19:31:40 <LadyHawk> which button is that andythenorth 19:31:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but please tell me you heard about "shared orders" before ;) 19:31:53 <LadyHawk> yellow arrow one? 19:31:57 <andythenorth> depot view, bottom right, yellow arrow 19:31:58 <planetmaker> or you just don't know how to use shared orders ;-) 19:31:59 <LadyHawk> shared orders? lol 19:32:08 <andythenorth> I've been looking at it for four years wondering what it does :P 19:32:21 <andythenorth> I'm sure the wiki knows 19:32:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: uae the button like this: pause game, set autoreplace rule, press button, remove autoreplace rule, unpause game. 19:32:35 <LadyHawk> those trains go to different loading stations, come together at an unload.. just because they're on 1 side of the map that got them placed in 1 group... doesn't mean i can share their orders, does it? 19:32:41 <planetmaker> well. We made it more visible recently, with a separate selection in the orders menu ;-) 19:32:48 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ?? 19:32:54 <planetmaker> and a very verbose tooltip 19:33:08 <andythenorth> what it replaces vehicles during pause? :O 19:33:11 <andythenorth> without going to depot? 19:33:18 <planetmaker> no 19:33:19 <andythenorth> why don't I always use that :P 19:33:25 <Alberth> they are in the depot already :p 19:33:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it will only affect the vehicles in the depot at that time 19:33:35 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 19:33:42 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:33:45 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 19:34:26 * LadyHawk doesn't find shared orders thing anywhere 19:34:34 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes i think i'm the only person who knows how to use that button :p 19:34:59 <LadyHawk> i know it exists, just dont know how to use it without any tooltips or something in game that tells me about it 19:35:06 <LadyHawk> XD 19:35:20 <andythenorth> does the server list have any filter / search? 19:35:47 <LadyHawk> the tooltip on that yellow arrow button tells me it'll auto replace anything inside the depot based on the auto-replace list settings 19:35:47 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there used to be a patch for that. 19:35:55 <Eddi|zuHause> don't remember if it was ever included 19:39:04 <LadyHawk> shared orders hold ctrl while pressing clone vehicle... awww, missing that silly control key got me so much work.. to do 19:40:13 <avdg> ctrl is the key to the new world of shortcuts :) 19:40:52 <avdg> http://wiki.openttd.org/Hidden_features 19:42:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6CEEE.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:45:26 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5A19.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:46:29 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC33A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:47:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6CEEE.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:48:32 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-178-133.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 19:52:05 <LadyHawk> interesting list, those hidden features.. i knew some but i'm gonna try one of those out ;o 19:52:35 <LadyHawk> tricky tricky nice lol 19:52:42 <LadyHawk> station joined with another while apart from it 19:59:05 <ABCRic> I wish I knew that trick when I first tried to make a airport-dock station... 20:01:13 <LadyHawk> this setup with the waypoint before the path signal doesn't entirely work right... the train gets the depot order when it hits the waypoint, and when it hits the path signal a trai ncould be coming out of said depot, so it waits until its path is clear rather than going to an available one 20:03:00 <LadyHawk> moved the waypoint adjacent to the path signal so that 1 tile safe zone thing is gone 20:05:42 <LadyHawk> works better now 20:11:03 <LadyHawk> but not good enough 20:11:59 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21489 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: replace the last instances of TILE_LOOP with TILE_AREA_LOOP 20:12:25 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-67-166.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 20:12:52 <LadyHawk> switched it around now, the path signal first, then the waypoint 20:13:36 <Eddi|zuHause> may be dangerous 20:14:20 <Eddi|zuHause> because then it may reserve a completely random path behind the waypoint, since the depot order is not active at that time yet 20:14:38 <Eddi|zuHause> there is some sort of lookahead, but i don't know how good that is 20:14:52 <LadyHawk> i'm watching it but it seems to not interfear with their reserved path 20:15:04 <LadyHawk> it gives them the depot on their reserved path 20:15:10 <Eddi|zuHause> basically: once the path is reserved, the next order can't change it again 20:15:12 <LadyHawk> haven't seen a train with the depot order stuck yet either 20:15:25 <Eddi|zuHause> so you may have bad effects if there is also a path without any depot 20:15:49 <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe the lookahead is good enough to figure that out. 20:16:30 <LadyHawk> there isn't a path without depot, but i'm assuming trains go weird if their depot order's 'stuck' (wrong depot in order from reserved path depot) 20:16:38 <LadyHawk> lookahead has saved me so many train crashes 20:16:46 <LadyHawk> trains refuse to move 20:17:01 <LadyHawk> they seem to want to reserve a path or they wont budge 20:17:10 *** lugo [lugo@195.3.138.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:17:15 <LadyHawk> had it once where it didn't reserve a path to safety but i cant remember the conditions 20:18:23 <LadyHawk> it happened that 5 trains turned around in a block with 14+ trains after i demolished the 1 way tracks on the other side of the station 20:18:33 <LadyHawk> not a single crash lol 20:18:56 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-41-41.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:19:09 <LadyHawk> it was a path signal block so maybe that's what saved it, they all had a reserved path at that time 20:21:38 <LadyHawk> i'll leave the block be with the waypoint behind path signal, and let you know if something crashes lol 20:22:41 <LadyHawk> 97 trains on that block right now so surely it'd happen sooner rather than later 20:24:35 <LadyHawk> i just found this 'timetable' thing in the orders menu, but how do i start it? 20:24:50 <LadyHawk> it says it isn't timetabled yet and that the train 'runs on time' though 20:27:42 <ABCRic> http://wiki.openttd.org/Timetable 20:30:11 <supermop> how serious are people about this new train gui 20:30:13 <supermop> ? 20:30:15 <LadyHawk> thanks 20:39:02 <Lakie> I don't think the views as mb shows them will work as intended, if thats what you mean supermop 20:39:43 <Lakie> Maybe a drop down (with the equivlent of previewdd) option which shows the style and name on the 'buttob'? 20:40:15 <planetmaker> supermop: no one knows :-) 20:40:34 <planetmaker> it all depends whether someone actually does the work 20:40:42 <supermop> hmm 20:40:43 <Lakie> Aye 20:40:55 <supermop> what would it be used for? 20:41:30 <Lakie> Trying to move such things out of refitting, currently known as "livery refits". 20:42:03 <supermop> maaking refits purely for cargo changes? 20:42:12 <Lakie> Primarily 20:42:21 <planetmaker> that seems to be the idea 20:42:25 <Lakie> And things like regearing most likely 20:43:21 <planetmaker> well. Regearing would in that sense be a valid refit 20:43:33 <planetmaker> otherwise there's no difference. 20:43:57 <planetmaker> I guess the topic is complicated ;-) 20:44:20 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with regearing as refit is that it takes away a cargo slot. 20:44:21 <Lakie> Well, it could add some minor complexities to code I guess. 20:44:40 <Eddi|zuHause> means it gets incompatible with industry grfs, where the common user can't see a reason why. 20:44:44 <supermop> neat idea, but doesn't seem like a big priority from my perspective 20:44:54 <supermop> ah 20:45:03 <Eddi|zuHause> also, it screws up "full load all" orders. 20:45:06 <planetmaker> well. In a layman's understanding, regearing is more of a refit than changing transport capacity from coal to iron ore 20:45:19 <supermop> yeah 20:45:30 <planetmaker> technically it's currently the same 20:45:40 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, but it needs to be made in a way that doesn't use a cargo. 20:46:05 <Eddi|zuHause> which it currently can't. and mb's views probably won't change that. 20:46:22 <supermop> refitting now conceptually covers new paint, physically changing a consist and cleaning out a hopper 20:46:42 <planetmaker> refitting covers any change you can make to a vehicle 20:50:09 *** lugo [lugo@195.3.138.104] has joined #openttd 20:50:40 * Lakie weeps, generating of lots of layouts is painful... 20:57:18 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:58:04 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: in that case, there should be "cargo refits", "livery refits" and "gear refits" all as subtypes of general "vehicle refit" 20:58:47 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21490 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp map_func.h tilearea_type.h): -Codechange: abstract/encapsulate the map area iterating a bit 20:59:55 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:00:32 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: where for a long distance car, "cargo refits" could be "{Passengers, Tourists}" and "gear refit" could be "{AÃŒm, BÃŒm, Rheingold, Mitropa}" 21:01:03 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you mean like terkhen two-column refit-.window? 21:01:11 <frosch123> + 's 21:01:25 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC33A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 21:01:33 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: more talking about internal handling, but GUI could be something like that, yes. 21:02:00 <frosch123> i.e. you can already distingush those cases: livery refits are subcargos, regearing are cargos with the "special" cargo class, and normal refits are the rest 21:02:05 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: and what would the game play difference be? Just that "gear refits" have no associated cargo? 21:02:07 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: mainly the point is to have "gear refit" also for vehicles which have 0 capacity 21:02:22 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: that is already possible, though ottd only 21:02:43 <planetmaker> he :-) 21:02:45 <frosch123> unfortnuatelly hardly knows, so maybe the documentation should be enhanced 21:03:12 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but does that still need a cargo slot? 21:03:25 <planetmaker> one cargo slot 'regearing' is not troublesome 21:03:26 <frosch123> yes 21:03:56 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it is, when an ECS mine starts producing "regearing" without any parameters. 21:04:05 <planetmaker> that's an ECS bug then 21:04:23 <planetmaker> but why should it start producing 'regearing'? 21:04:38 <planetmaker> are mines in ECS producing a random cargo? 21:05:04 <planetmaker> or how does it work there? 21:05:08 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i don't know. but that's what happened before i specifically turned off regearing in NARS 21:05:30 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it was not a random cargo 21:05:32 <planetmaker> sounds strange. But regearing is a well-defined cargo-slot 21:05:43 <planetmaker> it's even described in the specs 21:06:14 <planetmaker> can you tell me which ECS I need to reproduce that? 21:06:28 <planetmaker> or give me that savegame? 21:07:27 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... was some cargodist savegame... 21:08:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i used the USA map with ECS and US houses, and added NARS to that. 21:08:13 <planetmaker> well. you could export the newgrf list via preset ;-) 21:08:57 <planetmaker> well. unfortunately ECS != ECS. There's so many configuration options... it's anything but hard to loose track 21:09:05 <planetmaker> just adding and playing fails too often with it 21:09:10 <planetmaker> (IMHO) 21:09:32 <V453000> ECS is pointless imo 21:09:56 <planetmaker> No, I don't think so. But I never can remember parameters. Nor order of the vectors 21:10:16 <planetmaker> And getting that right is not obvious. Unless I did for that information 21:11:59 <planetmaker> Hm... and the date rather than a single version number doesn't help to find the newest one :-( 21:12:41 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC33A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:12:47 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: nars or nars2? 21:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: USA scenario version 3 from here http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=3959&highlight=usa 21:12:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and NARS 2.03 21:13:05 <Eddi|zuHause> check the "Kalksteinbruch" 21:13:06 <planetmaker> ah, ty 21:13:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i only have "compatible" ECS Houses, but that shouldn't make a difference 21:14:47 <Eddi|zuHause> NARS 1 didn't have regearing, i think. 21:15:15 <planetmaker> omg. omg. I downloaded version4 of that scenario. All ECS vectors were removed... 21:15:50 <planetmaker> hm, in the non-ECS version. Why ever he numbered them 21:17:17 <Ammler> ECS needs the order of the GRFID, iirc 21:17:23 <Ammler> and parameter just set 15 21:17:37 <Ammler> as it is a bitswitch, it shouldn't matter 21:17:45 <Ammler> some have 3, some 4 21:21:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: but sometimes it's the first parameter, and sometimes the fourth 21:22:12 <Ammler> hmm 21:22:37 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: you should know better than to add newgrf during a running game. 21:23:59 <planetmaker> if you generate the game with all newgrf present at start, the lime quarry doesn't produce regearing. 21:24:07 <planetmaker> but it doesn't produce anything it seems 21:26:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know ECS that well to figure that out... 21:26:58 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but my point is: there is no sensible explanation to a common user why adding a vehicle set should change industry behaviour 21:27:24 <planetmaker> the sensible explanation is: the grf author wanted it. 21:27:32 <planetmaker> grf authors can basically do anything 21:27:57 <planetmaker> sure enough, I don't see why in this case either. 21:28:06 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but the grf author did so because he had no choice 21:28:23 <planetmaker> because he used all 32 cargo slots? 21:28:29 <planetmaker> that's a choice being made. 21:28:42 <planetmaker> so there was one 21:28:53 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i mean the vehicle set author had no choice but to include a "senseless" cargo 21:30:13 <planetmaker> actually. When you add NARS on top of ECS... then it also works with NARS 21:31:27 <planetmaker> but ok, the engines then transport one ton of lime stone 21:33:07 <planetmaker> ok, but the principle argument of yours is "we need a separate refit property in order to not use a cargo". 21:33:30 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 21:34:34 <planetmaker> But practically there's not really a difference to saying "one cargo is special and reserved for regearing and must not be assigned elsewhere" 21:35:31 <Eddi|zuHause> but that apparently breaks older industry sets. 21:36:54 <planetmaker> regearing is also not new 21:37:25 <planetmaker> I've seen that since I joined this community... 21:38:44 <andythenorth> it speaks to persistent storage for vehicles 21:39:00 <andythenorth> cargo is being used as a proxy for that 21:39:09 <planetmaker> there's no persistant storage for them. Or you mean they should get? 21:39:10 <andythenorth> whether storage is wise is another question 21:39:22 <planetmaker> aye 21:39:22 <andythenorth> abusing cargo == storage 21:39:45 * andythenorth is actually playing the game 21:39:50 <andythenorth> multiplayer is....skippy 21:39:59 <planetmaker> hm... persistant storage. Might just do the trick. Wise? No idea 21:40:21 <planetmaker> But it might be more flexible than just adding another property 21:40:43 <Eddi|zuHause> what's dangerous is people accessing storage from other vehicles [like front engine], but not checking whether they are from the same newgrf 21:40:47 <andythenorth> refit is effectively doing the same, but in a tortuous way 21:41:03 <planetmaker> why is that dangerous? 21:41:11 <Eddi|zuHause> also, with "general purpose" storage, you can't link it to the refit gui entries 21:41:26 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: "may contain garbage"? 21:41:32 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: but you can refit already with 0t capacity. 21:41:48 <planetmaker> Yes, from another can contain garbage. But that's a newgrf bug. 21:43:20 <planetmaker> I can easily test for the grfID of the engine 21:43:37 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have a specialized "gear refit" property [with 256 values], you can design the refit gui in a way that it shows selection texts for different values, and also handle (e.g. date-dependent, or cargo-dependent) availability there 21:43:55 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't do that with a general-purpose storage property 21:44:10 <Eddi|zuHause> because it may be used for completely different stuff 21:44:18 <planetmaker> well. But I can handle that with sub-cargos already 21:44:42 <planetmaker> exactly that 21:45:01 <Eddi|zuHause> we are going in circles. 21:46:15 <planetmaker> well. the issue with introducing yet another way for refits among cargos and sub-cargos is that things then certainly don't get easier. 21:47:41 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF81C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:47:44 <planetmaker> using this 'views' approach could have the advantage that actually different sprites could be offered in a selection menu 21:48:56 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:52:11 *** realbigdreamer [~realbigdr@41.54.241.195] has joined #openttd 21:55:23 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 21:59:34 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.63.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:52 <Lakie> frosch123: just tested a trimmed verion of the diff and it appears to work(ish) 22:05:21 <Lakie> Though Oskar wasn't too keen on the idea... 22:05:57 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:42 *** realbigdreamer [~realbigdr@41.54.241.195] has quit [Quit: -a-] 22:09:24 *** Xaroth_ [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has joined #openttd 22:10:47 <frosch123> nice if it works :) 22:11:11 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:11:11 *** keoz [~keikoz@418pc.wohnheimg.uni-frankfurt.de] has joined #openttd 22:14:06 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 22:14:37 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@203.39.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: Sometimes I wonder why that frisbee is getting bigger, and suddenly, it hits me.] 22:24:43 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc28ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 22:25:31 <Lakie> Well, I dropped the setting, as I think for compatibilty any new vars needs >8 bits should use registers. 22:25:49 <Lakie> And had to change two jumps 22:27:39 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-178-133.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:28:05 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-173-240.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 22:32:43 <Lakie> diff looks like this, frosch123, http://files.lakie.net/IndirectAddressing.diff 22:35:33 <frosch123> also fine :) 22:35:45 <Lakie> Although, I think I missed a change 22:38:52 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 22:40:24 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has joined #openttd 22:42:13 *** Xaroth_ [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:42:28 <Lakie> Updated... 22:43:56 <frosch123> the short/near change? :) 22:43:59 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:44:05 <Lakie> Yeah 22:44:17 <Lakie> Otherwise you'll get compile errors about jump being out of range 22:44:24 <planetmaker> @ports 22:44:24 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 22:44:40 <Lakie> Does mean it now takes 5 bytes instead of 2 though 22:45:00 <frosch123> can't the assembler do that automatically? 22:45:20 <Lakie> It should be able to, but specifying short would obviously break it 22:49:08 <frosch123> night 22:49:16 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f6dcd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:50 *** SystemParadox [~simon@proxima.systemparadox.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:52:51 *** keoz [~keikoz@418pc.wohnheimg.uni-frankfurt.de] has quit [Quit: keoz] 22:55:09 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.63.147] has joined #openttd 23:18:07 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21491 /trunk/src/tilehighlight_type.h: -Document: the tile highlight data struct 23:21:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6B931.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 23:24:07 <Eddi|zuHause> the programming interface of that fountain earlier is probably not much different than for a needle printer 23:26:55 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6CEEE.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:52:37 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 23:52:39 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:57:54 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19CDE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]