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00:00:37 *** CaNsA [CaNsA@cpc4-live23-2-0-cust12.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 00:01:34 <CaNsA> yoyoyo guys, ive noticed a bug in openttd r21941 that isnt on the current changle log 00:01:43 <CaNsA> where can i report it? 00:01:50 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 00:02:12 <Maarten> bugs.openttd.org :) 00:02:16 <CaNsA> cheers 00:05:10 <CaNsA> done :D 00:05:11 <CaNsA> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4463 00:05:54 <Yexo> I don't really understand it 00:06:06 <Yexo> the intercontinental airport is bigger, just like I'd expect from the naming 00:06:34 <Yexo> only the preview is a bit smaller, because otherwise the window would become too big 00:07:29 <CaNsA> the actual size is wrong. also, an intercontinental airport should be smaller than and airport that is intertnational 00:07:47 <Yexo> that makes no sense 00:07:59 <CaNsA> continents are smaller than the world. 00:08:02 <Yexo> intercontinental = between continents, ie between africa and europe 00:08:12 <Yexo> international = between nations, ie between england and germany 00:08:24 <CaNsA> international = covering the world 00:09:11 <Yexo> you're using a flawed definition, the game is correct 00:09:18 <CaNsA> fair enough 00:10:33 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Quit: Quit] 00:10:38 <Yexo> of course you're free to suggest a different naming for those airports, but that'd be a feature request best discussed first in the forums 00:11:06 <CaNsA> kudos on the new airport menu though, thats sweet 00:16:09 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 00:17:41 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:21:20 <ccfreak2k> "international" = "to any nation" 00:21:40 <ccfreak2k> Though the difference between intercontinental and international is arguable I guess. 00:22:04 <ccfreak2k> Could you really have an international flight to antarctica? 00:22:09 <Eddi|zuHause> not "to any nation". only "to at least one other nation" 00:22:52 <Eddi|zuHause> typically, the nearest "other continent" is further away than the nearest "other nation" 00:23:07 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:23:57 <Yexo> ccfreak2k: so "intercity" = "to any city"? 00:23:57 <Eddi|zuHause> a flight from frankfurt to paris is international, a flight from frankfurt to new york is intercontinental 00:24:24 <Yexo> almost all intercontinental flights are also international 00:24:31 <Yexo> the reverse is not true 00:24:37 <Yexo> only some international flights are intercontinental 00:24:45 <ccfreak2k> What about in a broader sense: is the UN an international affair, or intercontinental? 00:24:50 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could fly from paris to guadeloupe or something ;) 00:25:01 <Yexo> ccfreak2k: international, because it's an affair between nations 00:25:20 <Eddi|zuHause> which is intercontinental, but not international ;) 00:25:20 <Yexo> not between "continents" as there is no government for each continent 00:31:32 <CaNsA> would you say that the USA is a continent? 00:33:25 <Yexo> no 00:33:41 <Yexo> North America is a continent 00:34:41 <Eddi|zuHause> CaNsA: what we try to tell you is even at smaller airports you will find international flights, but only on really big ones you will likely find intercontinental ones 00:35:17 <CaNsA> okies 00:35:21 <CaNsA> no worries 00:35:52 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 00:36:31 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-4d020bf4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:37:09 <Maarten> it also depends on the size of the country.... in a country like the US, you can have domestic airports that are bigger in size then say the intercontinental airport of Luxemburg. ;) 00:37:33 <Yexo> does luxemburg have an intercontinental airport? 00:37:39 <Yexo> but your point is valid :p 00:38:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember seeing an airport in luxemburg 00:38:11 <Maarten> Well, it is quite possible that Luxemburg has an airline that services e.g. New York. (I don't know the fact of that) 00:38:33 <Eddi|zuHause> they probably have one though, but why should it be intercontinental? 00:38:57 <Eddi|zuHause> intercontinental flights you espect from london, paris or frankfurt 00:40:08 <Maarten> actually LuxAir does not serve outside of Europe..... but regardless, the point is the same. A small nation, not even half the size of a U.S. state, can have a intercontinental airport that is smaller in size then a domestic airport in the U.S. 00:41:06 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-4d020bf4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 00:41:08 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-153-176.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:42:18 <Maarten> E.g, my brother just flew out of Luxor in Egypt - he was evacuated during a holiday trip - and the airport there serves destinations to several European cities..... but is really nothing more then an airstrip in the desert. ;) 00:43:03 <Eddi|zuHause> if you consider the individual states in the US and view them as nations in this context, you should get a better picture 00:44:09 <Eddi|zuHause> well, egypt is a borderline development country, of course you'd expect smaller airports there :p 00:44:55 <Eddi|zuHause> egypt has about as many inhabitants as germany, but its economic strength is only a fraction 00:54:57 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 01:01:30 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 01:08:27 *** R-Blade [~RLeader@pool-173-54-192-57.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 01:08:29 <R-Blade> sup all 01:08:43 <R-Blade> Hey, anyone here playing openttd right now? 01:09:18 <CaNsA> i am, whats up? 01:09:33 <R-Blade> ah cool I was wondering, what train sets/grfs do you use 01:10:01 <CaNsA> i use standards trains 01:10:03 <R-Blade> Also, do you reach a point where even if half your lines are clogged you find millions in the bank yearly 01:10:07 <R-Blade> ah ok 01:10:17 <R-Blade> I'm a ECS +NARS + US Renewal set man 01:10:22 <CaNsA> cool 01:10:28 <CaNsA> clogged lines? 01:10:38 <CaNsA> i dont have clogged limes 01:10:40 <CaNsA> ,ines* 01:10:40 <R-Blade> Well, one of my problems/fun challenges is say 01:10:58 <R-Blade> I run a LOT of freight/passenger trains on one bit of crowded line 01:11:04 <CaNsA> lol 01:11:06 <R-Blade> which leads to delays sometimes 01:11:15 <R-Blade> I'm working on a bypass route for the freight though 01:12:45 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-4d020bf4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:14:57 <CaNsA> this is my most recent save 01:14:59 <CaNsA> http://www.liverpoolbikers.co.uk/condwood2307.sav 01:15:07 <CaNsA> have a looksee mate 01:15:25 <R-Blade> cool, thanks 01:15:40 <CaNsA> no probs. its a bit messy but it works wel; 01:15:43 <CaNsA> well8 01:15:43 <R-Blade> ah, you are from the united kingdom 01:16:06 <CaNsA> yeppers, liverpool :D 01:16:33 <R-Blade> thats where you have the beatles and the giant steam trains and the titanic 01:17:01 <CaNsA> we did have the titanic until they killed it 01:20:41 <R-Blade> shame about those icebergs 01:21:09 <CaNsA> who'd have guess it eh 01:21:57 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.11.14.158] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 01:24:49 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5D19.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 01:26:11 <R-Blade> yep 01:26:55 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.6.141] has joined #openttd 01:33:50 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:20:35 *** CaNsA [CaNsA@cpc4-live23-2-0-cust12.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:30:54 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 02:39:43 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.6.141] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:42:24 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.6.141] has joined #openttd 03:34:56 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-223-233.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:39:10 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:08:25 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE7C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:18:58 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 04:27:00 <Guest118> \o/ 04:27:07 <Guest118> CentOS 5.5 04:27:12 <Guest118> its alive 04:27:24 *** Guest118 is now known as z-MaTRiX 04:30:14 *** Fenris3 [~fenris@p5DC698DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 04:35:03 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:20e4:d7bb:aa6b:78c6] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:40:48 *** R-Blade [~RLeader@pool-173-54-192-57.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:52:55 *** ballista [~ballista@69.51.104.87] has joined #openttd 04:55:42 *** ballista [~ballista@69.51.104.87] has quit [] 04:58:39 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5D19.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:11:16 *** afk [~Dre@92.30.71.188] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:18:16 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-223-233.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 05:25:10 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.71.188] has joined #openttd 05:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73929.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7412A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:58:20 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:20:23 *** lasershock [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:40:40 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5D19.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:43:36 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC48B6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:51:40 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:56:19 <Terkhen> good morning 07:03:18 <z-MaTRiX> hey-ho 07:06:49 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:08:27 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B103715.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:14:05 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B10655D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:18:05 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e06ec12.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:19:30 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:40:57 <Terkhen> "this discussion is going in circles." <- :D 07:43:22 <Rubidium> but toroidal or sphericial? 07:58:17 <Terkhen> could you get infinite money by sending your train infinitely far away? :P 08:08:49 <Rubidium> ofcourse you can 08:09:03 *** lasershock [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 08:15:11 <Terkhen> can you create a network which causes an infinite lookup of the pathfinder freezing the game for everyone? 08:16:07 <Rubidium> nope, the pathfinders have a maximum search depth 08:16:35 <Terkhen> :) 08:19:49 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 08:21:11 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe86de00-46.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:29:36 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: yexo * r21951 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] reset the carry flag every 4 bytes in action6 when adding more than one variable 08:37:32 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:46:23 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 09:08:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6DFB6.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 09:11:51 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 09:14:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.182.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:20:34 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host235-235-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:21:35 <Wolf01> morning 09:24:51 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6EB63.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:44:55 *** Yexo [~Yexo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 09:46:10 *** Yexo [~Yexo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 09:46:13 *** mode/#openttd [+o Yexo] by ChanServ 09:48:30 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [] 09:54:35 *** Yexo [~Yexo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 09:54:50 *** Yexo [~Yexo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 09:54:53 *** mode/#openttd [+o Yexo] by ChanServ 09:55:44 <Xaroth_> Yexo: i was kidding... 09:56:22 <Yexo> I know, having some trouble locally ;) 10:03:57 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa250.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:08:45 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 10:11:17 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:25:00 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa250.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:25:02 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 10:25:05 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6EB63.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 10:26:47 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:32:04 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21952 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Codechange: unify the company clearing code for bankruptcy with the command to remove companies 10:34:20 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:15:51 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa250.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:24:35 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa250.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:27:48 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.11.14.158] has joined #openttd 11:47:46 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:49:35 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-169-232.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 12:07:01 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd 12:07:50 <DanMacK> Hey all 12:35:12 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-169-232.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [] 12:36:20 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 12:37:54 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-118-225.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:38:53 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFFB97.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:39:35 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f736873.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:40:59 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f736873.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [] 12:41:20 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f736873.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:43:58 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-228-156.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:44:18 *** guyht [~guyht@62-244-181-138.cust.exponential-e.net] has joined #openttd 12:44:55 <guyht> Is openttd still available for iPhone and iPad? Can't seem to find it on cydia? 12:45:24 <planetmaker> you should ask the person who wrote or hacked that port 12:45:34 <planetmaker> there never was an official version 12:45:46 <guyht> That would be zottd 12:45:50 <planetmaker> ^^ 12:46:12 <planetmaker> And he never provided us with the patches which he needed to write either 12:46:25 <guyht> Fair enough, I realise its neither supported or endorsed by ottd 12:46:28 <planetmaker> And no-one donated an iPad for me so far 12:46:33 <guyht> Haha 12:47:34 <planetmaker> how else should it be tested than with hardware in developer's hands? 12:48:11 <guyht> Maybe it's worth trying to raise the money then 12:50:17 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 12:50:29 <guyht> In other news, was trying to get autopilot up and running but it seems that it is no longer maintained and doesn't seem to run with the latest version of Tcl 12:50:46 <planetmaker> autopilot or ap+ ? 12:50:56 <guyht> Ap+ sorry 12:51:07 <guyht> I couldn't find a download link for autopilot 12:51:18 <guyht> But that would be much appreciated 12:52:46 <planetmaker> ap+ is the somewhat maintained version 12:53:13 <planetmaker> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/admintools might be interesting to you ;-) 12:53:47 <planetmaker> but yes, autopilot / ap+ require certain tcl versions and more important a specific(?) version of expect. 12:53:54 <planetmaker> which is afaik also mentioned in the readme 12:54:02 <guyht> Ah, that could be it 12:54:34 <guyht> I put Tcl 8.5 on which is specified in the readme, but just the latest expect 12:55:43 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-24-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:55:43 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 12:57:32 <planetmaker> you might consider to write a front-end for JOAN, too ;-) 12:57:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A419.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:58:17 <Rubidium> guyht: problem with i* is that our license and Apple's terms of service clash in a way that OpenTTD won't make it onto their app store without them changing their terms of service (or us changing the license) 12:58:56 <planetmaker> psst, he asked not for the official store(s) ;-) 12:59:37 <Rubidium> but officially supporting cydia is asking for people to do illegal things 12:59:45 <guyht> Yes, I realise that is unfortunately the case, but it shouldn't stop people releasing it on cydia where you can release uber gpl 13:00:02 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-118-225.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:00:37 <guyht> That is not necessarily true, the legality of cydia is very debated 13:00:54 <guyht> But it is certainly a grey area 13:01:27 <Rubidium> I don't know what cydia entails, but jail breaking kinda seems illegal with all the successful prosecution of people writing jail break tools 13:01:49 <Rubidium> and I kinda assume that cydia isn't on Apple's app store 13:02:06 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:dcbe:59f9:fd7e:a502] has joined #openttd 13:02:09 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:03:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the judgements are fairly unanimous that jailbreaking itself is not illegal 13:04:41 <guyht> Joan looks promising, going to have a look. Shame that ap+ is not working, is there anywhere I can find out which version of expect is required? 13:05:00 <planetmaker> what does the readme say? 13:05:44 <guyht> 5.44 or above 13:06:10 <guyht> Will have another crack at it and see what I an find 13:06:24 <Ammler> guyht: you used ap+ from the hg repo? 13:06:40 <Ammler> then you should try openttd without autopilot 13:06:59 <guyht> No, I downloaded from the admintools page 13:07:15 <guyht> Ah, maybe I got an older version! 13:07:27 <Ammler> yes, that is a snapshot of the hg repo 13:07:56 <guyht> Balls, ok, will check out the latest version and see if it makes a difference. Thanks. 13:08:35 <Ammler> you downloaded tip, you won't get another version :-) 13:09:39 <guyht> There is a known issue with Tcl 8.4 and expect on ubuntu 10.04, suggested solution is to use activetcl, will try that too 13:10:38 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa250.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:10:57 <Rubidium> guyht: even then the zodttd thread about OpenTTD on the i* was primarily whining about the buttons being too small and such; something I'm not really interested in fixing 13:12:47 *** lewymati [~lewymati@dynamic-78-8-153-152.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #openttd 13:13:17 <guyht> Yes, if it was an easy solution I would have got it, but it seems that isn't available 13:16:12 *** R-Blade [~RLeader@pool-173-54-192-57.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 13:22:25 <guyht> This is the error that I get with ap: http://pastebin.com/gsp8kNpu 13:25:46 *** guyht_ [~guyht@62-244-181-138.cust.exponential-e.net] has joined #openttd 13:25:46 *** guyht [~guyht@62-244-181-138.cust.exponential-e.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:25:46 *** guyht_ is now known as guyht 13:31:24 *** Chris_Booth_ [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:31:39 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 13:35:10 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.6.141] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:36:35 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:37:18 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.6.141] has joined #openttd 13:40:33 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8829.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:43:40 *** Chris_Booth_ [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:04:16 <Belugas> hello 14:04:26 <SmatZ> hello Belugas 14:04:26 *** guyht [~guyht@62-244-181-138.cust.exponential-e.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:46 *** guyht [~guyht@62-244-181-138.cust.exponential-e.net] has joined #openttd 14:05:17 <Belugas> mster SmatZ :D 14:06:09 <SmatZ> :-) 14:08:20 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:08:57 *** guyht [~guyht@62-244-181-138.cust.exponential-e.net] has quit [] 14:09:07 *** JOHN-SHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-172-41.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:25 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 14:11:38 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: smatz * r21953 /trunk/ (13 files in 5 dirs): -Remove [FS#4456]: the non-uniform stations setting. Support for uniform stations has been broken for over a year 14:11:45 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:11:47 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6EB63.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:13:11 <Wolfsherz> hello, having issues with foundations in openttd 1.1.0-beta4. at the title-screen they are colored brownish, with vertical lines... ingame they just look like rocks or something like that. 14:13:39 <Rubidium> different climates have different foundations 14:14:13 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd 14:16:11 <Wolfsherz> oh, thats it... ok, gonna look for a newgrf then. the rocks don't look that good in my opinion. thank you Rubidium. 14:18:16 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.6.141] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:19 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 14:18:47 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.6.141] has joined #openttd 14:19:07 <Wolfsherz> another one, in temperate climate only, i get the following error when clicking on industries (ocassionally): "Assertion failed at line 88 of ..\src\strings.cpp: **argt == 0 || **argt == type 14:20:00 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:20:29 <planetmaker> you certainly play with newgrfs and / or a map where you changed those? 14:20:45 <Rubidium> Wolfsherz: already fixed in the nightlies I think 14:20:57 <Wolfsherz> yes, i play with various newgrfs, is a list required? 14:21:07 <planetmaker> rather a savegame 14:21:19 <planetmaker> and test it in the current nightly 14:21:34 * Rubidium postulates FS#4422 14:22:04 <Wolfsherz> i will try the nightly 14:24:08 <Wolfsherz> nightly fixes the problem 14:24:31 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:32 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 14:28:40 <Wolfsherz> Rubidium, where is FS#4422 actually? I fail to find it at the bugtracker 14:29:13 <Rubidium> then look for the closed bugs 14:29:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolfsherz: the default search ignores closed tasks 14:29:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolfsherz: you can just enter the number at the top 14:30:57 <Wolfsherz> thank you, still new to this all 14:37:36 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21954 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Cleanup: remove setting to not show the vehicle speed in the vehicle view 14:38:28 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21955 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Cleanup: always show the long date in the status bar 14:38:45 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21956 /trunk/src/ (settings_type.h table/settings.h tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Cleanup: always draw the bridge pillars 14:41:40 <Hirundo> 'Cleanup' is an euphemism for 'Remove'? 14:42:46 <Rubidium> yeah 14:42:47 <SmatZ> :) 14:42:56 <Rubidium> or did you use any of those settings with another value? 14:43:35 <Hirundo> Of course not :) 14:46:10 <Hirundo> Some suggestions for further 'cleanup': 14:46:16 <Hirundo> allow goto depot orders 14:46:23 <Hirundo> enable timetabling 14:47:19 <Rubidium> good ideas 14:47:22 <Hirundo> improved loading (!= gradual loading) 14:47:36 <Hirundo> some of that 'adjacent station' stuff 14:48:14 <Terkhen> heh, allow goto depot orders is a setting? 14:48:15 <Hirundo> mammoth trains 14:48:21 <Hirundo> yes :) 14:48:34 <Terkhen> why, what harm can it do? 14:54:32 <Eddi|zuHause> not using improved loading has some advantages for really busy stations 14:55:35 <Eddi|zuHause> improved loading has the problem that it cannot predict the amount of cargo coming in during the loading period 14:56:09 <Eddi|zuHause> so for very busy stations it underestimates the amount of trains it can load simultaneously 14:56:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so you get a large stockpile, and lower rating 14:56:49 <R-Blade> ah I see 14:57:07 <R-Blade> the biggest problem I have is trying to run realistic networks pre 1940 14:57:52 <R-Blade> (though GRFs help with this, its still hard having to build a 15 track major urban center with streetcars having to flood the cities 14:58:27 <Eddi|zuHause> R-Blade: try the patch that reduces town cargos 14:58:59 <R-Blade> I should post a picture of my northeast corridor eventually, thanks Eddi|zuHause 15:00:17 <R-Blade> also, do any of you use ships? 15:01:24 <Eddi|zuHause> occasionally 15:01:30 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on the map 15:03:14 <R-Blade> I've noticed that ships only make sense for oil and fish, otherwise they are too slow even with their huge cargoes 15:06:08 * DanMacK likes to start early, so ships are really the only thing going 15:06:37 <DanMacK> makes things *really* difficult 15:07:21 <planetmaker> and then use a Norwegian Fjordland map and you'll virtually have not much choice even further on ;-) 15:07:43 <DanMacK> or set sea level to 90% with mountainous settings :P 15:07:52 <planetmaker> yeah :-) 15:08:06 <planetmaker> I actually like about 50% and mountainous ;-) 15:08:19 <R-Blade> I tend to do american settings so boats are.. 15:08:24 <planetmaker> sometimes even 70% - island scenario 15:08:26 <R-Blade> well you can call me OPEC 15:08:44 <R-Blade> also my god the hovercraft is so broken for cities 15:08:55 <planetmaker> how so? 15:09:21 <R-Blade> its fast acceleration + passenger capacity means that it beats most trains till say you get a GG1 equilivant 15:09:51 <planetmaker> and what's broken about that? 15:11:14 <R-Blade> its better than a large chunk of trains, which means it could replace some rail systems 15:11:20 <R-Blade> (for passengers at least) 15:12:34 <DanMacK> Well, they also carry alot less than a train 15:13:09 <planetmaker> yep 15:13:32 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21957 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Cleanup: gotodepot and timetabling settings are more or less useless; just don't use depot orders or timetabling if you don't want to use it 15:13:40 <planetmaker> so really busy manhatten-style town districts are hard to service properly via boat. But then... by any means of inner-city transport 15:14:01 <R-Blade> I found a nice little grf that works well 15:14:19 <R-Blade> hiroshima trams, fits 450 and 230, as well as some german trams that fit 200-300 people 15:14:29 <R-Blade> work well as intercity subways for hyper crowded places 15:15:08 <R-Blade> (but at 50 mph they are slow) 15:16:55 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 15:17:21 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 15:18:06 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:16 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e06ec12.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 15:18:30 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 15:20:05 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:24:52 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 15:26:24 *** lewymati [~lewymati@dynamic-78-8-153-152.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [] 15:28:30 *** R-Blade [~RLeader@pool-173-54-192-57.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:29:05 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8829.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:30:04 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21958 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Cleanup: join_stations setting; can done by distant join and could be subverted by distant join 15:31:30 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:37:43 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:38:16 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21959 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 4 dirs): -Change: replace longbridges with custom maximum bridge and tunnel length setting 15:39:13 <Eddi|zuHause> he's on a spree! 15:40:02 <planetmaker> quite :-) 15:40:48 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21960 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): 15:40:48 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Change: show the length of vehicles in tiles, instead of half tiles in the depot 15:40:48 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#4461]: don't count the number of vehicles but the length of vehicles to (configurably) limit train length 15:43:02 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED662EB.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:43:18 <Eddi|zuHause> if it's the right time now: i'd still like "no loading" and "no unloading" orders simultaneously (for timetabled sidings) 15:43:32 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: which settings do you think the default should be changed of? 15:44:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: not sure, haven't looked at the settings lately 15:45:10 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:45:43 <planetmaker> speak up now or remain silent forever :-P 15:46:27 <planetmaker> line_reverse_mode could be dropped from GUI, too 15:46:39 <planetmaker> and default to stations and EOL (dunno current default) 15:47:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: a gui setting for "never turn around at any signals" could be useful 15:47:57 <planetmaker> industry_platform = 1 <-- what did / does that do? 15:47:59 <Eddi|zuHause> (overriding the three wait time settings) 15:48:16 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: make a flat area around industries, with a radius of 0 to 4 15:48:47 <planetmaker> oh ha 15:48:47 <SirSquidness> < Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: a gui setting for "never turn around at any signals" could be useful <-- Please oh please tell me that this setting already exists?! :D 15:48:53 <Eddi|zuHause> (before this setting, it was hardcoded to 1, and i found it ugly) 15:49:11 <Eddi|zuHause> SirSquidness: yes, as a console setting 15:49:30 <Eddi|zuHause> SirSquidness: try "list_settings pf.wait" 15:49:38 <SirSquidness> Eddi|zuHause: convey unto me these wise words you have 15:49:54 <Eddi|zuHause> setting of 255 is disabled 15:51:33 <SirSquidness> Many thanks! <3 15:52:08 <Eddi|zuHause> be sure to do this for all three settings. otherwise you may have unwanted side effects 15:53:02 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: a GUI setting for that is somewhat non-trivial, unless you show the actual numbers 15:53:22 <Rubidium> as we only have a "disabled" string for value 0 15:54:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i mean a single boolean setting "disable turning around at signals", and at any place that now checks wait==255, you add a check for this setting. 15:54:45 <Rubidium> multiple settings for the same thing leads to inconsistencies 15:55:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the question is whether it is worth it. and i think it is in this case... 15:55:22 <Rubidium> like there were two settings for not showing signs 15:55:39 <Rubidium> if you disable showing in one, the other still shows that it will be shown but it won't 15:55:43 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe remove the meaning of 255 in the wait time, and convert old settings on load? 15:55:50 <Rubidium> making *me* go haywire why it doesn't show the signs 15:56:13 <Rubidium> hmm, that would be a good idea 15:57:32 <Rubidium> but... three settings? 15:58:06 <Eddi|zuHause> wait_oneway_signal, wait_twoway_signal and wait_for_pbs_path or so 15:58:59 <Rubidium> then you'd almost come back to the current settings 15:59:08 <Rubidium> though those are quite magic numbers 15:59:26 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the disable-setting should affect all types. 15:59:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so only one disable-setting 16:00:31 <Rubidium> bah... stupid legacy setting 16:07:54 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21961 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt order_cmd.cpp order_gui.cpp): -Remove: limitation that not loading and not unloading is mutual exclusive 16:08:58 <Eddi|zuHause> \o/ 16:09:32 <Eddi|zuHause> at this rate, we're at a 3D-maparray and bendy bridges in no time :p 16:09:50 <Rubidium> I doubt that 16:09:50 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, but not at this rate of adding new lines of code ;-) 16:10:06 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 16:10:29 <Vikthor> hi 16:10:50 <Eddi|zuHause> # How could your best friend's ex-girlfriend's 16:10:51 <Eddi|zuHause> # Younger sister's mate, know before I did? 16:12:56 <planetmaker> that's too many levels of whoever's 16:13:33 <Rubidium> sorry... but the chain breaks at "sister" for me 16:13:38 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that's how the song goes ;) 16:16:50 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:20 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 16:18:29 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:19:50 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 16:21:42 <DanMacK> hey Lakie 16:21:53 <Lakie> Hi DanMacK 16:25:08 <fjb> Moin everybody. 16:29:51 *** JOHN-SHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-172-41.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:30:34 *** ZirconiumX [561b9bc6@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:33:00 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 16:40:52 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21962 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 4 dirs): -Feature-ish: GUI setting to disable reversing at signals 16:46:24 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6EB63.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:04:02 *** ZirconiumX [561b9bc6@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 17:08:16 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa250.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10:30 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa250.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:15:02 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.6.141] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:15:37 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.6.141] has joined #openttd 17:15:54 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC48B6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 17:26:39 *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has joined #openttd 17:28:59 <Eddi|zuHause> lang files could need an update about removed strings? 17:31:21 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.112.189.24] has joined #openttd 17:31:28 <andythenorth> evaning 17:31:43 <supermop> hi 17:31:53 <DanMacK> Hey Andy 17:31:59 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 17:34:02 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:19 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 17:38:48 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.112.189.24] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:47:48 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:10:47 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe42e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:22:43 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f736873.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:25:31 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.112.189.24] has joined #openttd 18:29:10 <DanMacK> WB 18:33:19 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21963 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix: saying something twice in an error message is not needed 18:34:41 *** Fenris3 [~fenris@p5DC69EC3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:41:54 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21964 /trunk/bin/ai/regression/regression.cfg: -Fix (r21959): regression failed 18:42:24 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:42:26 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:44:50 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: fosdem here I come] 18:47:53 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@borealis.jontysewell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:53 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: translators * r21965 /trunk/src/lang/ (58 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 18:47:53 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:47:53 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: czech - 6 changes by SmatZ 18:47:53 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: dutch - 15 changes by Yexo 18:47:53 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: english_US - 10 changes by Rubidium 18:47:55 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: finnish - 9 changes by jpx_ 18:47:55 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: french - 9 changes by glx 18:49:17 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@borealis.jontysewell.net] has joined #openttd 18:59:22 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:06:51 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 19:10:23 * andythenorth waves 19:11:01 <andythenorth> me and Mr MacKellar have been drawing more ships 19:11:05 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:11:11 *** Fenris3 [~fenris@p5DC69EC3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 19:11:21 <andythenorth> the issue of ship liveries has come up again 19:13:07 <supermop> neat! 19:13:29 <andythenorth> frosch123: I can't remember where the ship colours discussion ended 19:13:37 <andythenorth> there's a patch 19:13:56 <frosch123> the infamous livery discussion? 19:13:56 <andythenorth> but some thinking that maybe there is a more 'proper' way to do it? 19:14:46 <Rubidium> groups! 19:15:22 <andythenorth> frick and frack :P 19:16:00 <andythenorth> so can we remove all the different options for train liveries? :P 19:16:37 <frosch123> andythenorth: there was some discussion whether newgrfs should be able to define their own livery categories, esp. as the default liveries for trains make no sense since newrailtypes. there was also an discussion about player-defined categories (which drifts towards consists and general grouping). but the only argument that was actually settles was that it is a lot of work for questionable benefit :) 19:17:12 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Quit: Quit] 19:17:30 * andythenorth proposes removing train liveries :D 19:17:37 <andythenorth> inconsistent with other vehicle types 19:18:46 <Rubidium> andythenorth: start a new game and type "set liveries 0" in the console 19:19:24 <andythenorth> hah 19:19:26 <andythenorth> that's awesome 19:21:00 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21966 /trunk/src/ (engine_type.h table/engines.h train_cmd.cpp): -Change [FS#4462]: [NewGRF] Disable the flipping of train engines/wagons in the depot by default for NewGRFs 19:21:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that's only visual, is it? 19:26:06 <andythenorth> are we calling 'no' on ship liveries then? 19:26:38 <frosch123> adding a fixed number of default ship liveries only extents the problem imo 19:27:30 <supermop> group liveries? or is that just throwing gasoline on the fire here... 19:27:51 <andythenorth> group liveries might be a solution, but it's very complicated 19:28:14 <andythenorth> should the existing livery system be removed? 19:28:52 <frosch123> that would cause complains unless we add a superset instead :) 19:28:54 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: only visual? 19:29:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant the liveries setting 19:29:42 <Rubidium> oh, yeah... only visual 19:30:05 <andythenorth> what if I complain more about not extending liveries than other players complain about removing them? 19:30:12 <andythenorth> is that like a democracy of complaining? 19:30:15 <andythenorth> :P 19:30:53 <Rubidium> andythenorth: you at least have the freedom to complain 19:30:59 <frosch123> sure, the majority also decided to remove changing newgrfs in game 19:31:31 <Rubidium> andythenorth: as you know... OpenTTD is a dictatorship 19:31:41 <Rubidium> or at least, it has been written so it must be true 19:31:47 <frosch123> andythenorth: the masses can always enforce changes, but they cannot control in which direction :) 19:33:26 * andythenorth doesn't see why the train nerds are allowed to have a livery system if others aren't 19:33:37 <andythenorth> what did the train nerds ever do for us? 19:33:38 <andythenorth> :P 19:34:20 <frosch123> yeah, what did the whales and trees ever do for us 19:35:47 <Rubidium> andythenorth: what different ship types does OpenTTD have; how are they differentiated? 19:35:59 <Rubidium> with trains that distinction *was* quite easy 19:36:01 <andythenorth> I don't know any more :P 19:36:09 <andythenorth> I set liveries 0 and can't check :D 19:36:22 <frosch123> Rubidium: the fs task added a property to distinguish steam, diesel and sail 19:36:45 <Rubidium> but I want a nuklear wessel 19:36:55 <andythenorth> are the train liveries original TTD ? 19:37:00 <frosch123> yup, that's why a fixed selection is bad 19:37:07 <andythenorth> I thought they'd been added somewhere in the world of TTDP 19:37:09 <frosch123> andythenorth: no 19:37:16 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, they all had the same livery 19:38:16 <frosch123> but as i said before, current liveries make no sense since new railtypes, and automatically adding liveries for each available railtype makes no sense either :) 19:38:30 <andythenorth> remove them :) 19:39:03 <Terkhen> livery classes :) 19:39:19 <Yexo> new vehicle property "livery class" that can be freely set. Vehicles with the same value will get the same colors. User can set colors for every livery class defined by any newgrf 19:39:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm all for having groups define livery... 19:39:37 <Yexo> but then that requires an addition to all newgrfs 19:40:12 <andythenorth> newgrfs define arbitrary properties for vehicles.... 19:40:15 <andythenorth> similar to action 14 19:40:41 <andythenorth> 'arbitrary' may be the wrong word :P 19:41:32 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how would groups define livery? 19:41:53 <Rubidium> all vehicles in this group have livery X 19:41:57 <Rubidium> and then sub groups 19:42:05 <Rubidium> which override the livery of the parent group 19:42:15 <andythenorth> heh 19:42:17 <Eddi|zuHause> same selection window as now, but for each group individually 19:42:25 <andythenorth> the groups discussion again :D 19:42:43 <andythenorth> Alberth: how many groups can a vehicle be in (on your idea) 19:42:44 <andythenorth> ? 19:42:47 <Eddi|zuHause> mainly because i want to have different tram/bus liveries in each city 19:43:19 <Alberth> as many as you have groups 19:43:21 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I wouldn't say "the same", I'd leave it to: train engine, pax wagon, freight wagon, road vehicle, ship, aircraft 19:43:36 * andythenorth wonders about the 'fun' 19:43:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that'd probably suffice. 19:43:49 <Eddi|zuHause> bus/truck separated 19:43:58 <andythenorth> nearly all of the discussions about groups sound like 'work' to me 19:44:07 <andythenorth> it's all about organising and classifying 19:44:07 <Yexo> one vehicle in multiple groups and a livery per group is going to be a mess 19:44:14 <Yexo> which group takes priority wrt liveries? 19:44:39 <andythenorth> going to the company menu and choosing a few livery settings is 'fun' 19:44:55 <andythenorth> spending twenty minutes organising groups is 'work' 19:45:01 * andythenorth wonders 19:45:10 <andythenorth> was the original reason for groups to remove 'work' ? 19:45:27 <Yexo> autoreplace per group? 19:45:34 <andythenorth> exactly 19:45:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i once suggested "group classes". like a vehicle may only be in one "consist"-class group, and one "livery"-class group, but in many "user"-class or "station"/"automatic"-class groups 19:45:44 <andythenorth> autoreplace by group removes a boring task 19:46:05 <andythenorth> enforcing making groups for everything introduces a boring task 19:46:24 <Alberth> 'group' as basic building block is the wrong starting point imho 19:46:35 <Rubidium> setting liveries is a boring task in any case 19:46:44 <andythenorth> I like it :D 19:46:48 <andythenorth> but I'm not normal 19:47:00 <Eddi|zuHause> building a rail network is a boring task. but people do it anyway. 19:47:10 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:47:12 <Alberth> Rubidium: it fulfils the goal of the game: waste time :) 19:47:30 <andythenorth> waste time in a pleasing way :) 19:47:44 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: nah, that is the boring part. Keeping it working while its load increases is the fun part 19:47:54 <andythenorth> about once a week I have to group all the lego bits 19:47:56 <andythenorth> it's very dull 19:48:01 <andythenorth> but if I don't, it's worse 19:48:03 <Rubidium> andythenorth: the point is that vehicles that share an order will (implicitly) be in a group 19:48:18 <Rubidium> now they are as well, it's just *much* more hidden 19:48:33 <andythenorth> there's even a GUI mockup for this somewhere... 19:48:42 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 19:48:42 <andythenorth> if 'livery' was a per-vehicle property 19:48:49 <andythenorth> then setting it could be a one-time action 19:48:56 * andythenorth looks 19:49:20 <Rubidium> making the "orders" more visible and searchable should make it easier to manage vehicles in the long run 19:50:04 <andythenorth> I can't find the image I made 19:50:17 <Yexo> are the bridges in toyland supposed to look purple? 19:50:27 <andythenorth> but if applying a livery to a group was same as using 'go to depot' or 'send for servicing' etc... 19:50:39 <andythenorth> and just set the property on each vehicle in the group 19:50:47 <andythenorth> then crazy cascading rules aren't needed 19:51:38 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't see how re-selecting the livery for every vehicle i buy [unless i clone, which is not always] makes the task easier 19:51:41 <Yexo> hmm, only happens with original ttd graphics, not with opengfx 19:51:45 <Yexo> so I'll guess it's intended 19:51:47 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: good point 19:51:54 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f736873.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:52:06 <andythenorth> why try and make groups do everything? 19:52:09 <andythenorth> it smells wrong 19:52:24 <Eddi|zuHause> it's just another annoying step more in the buing process, after refitting and timetabling 19:52:35 *** Chillosophy [Chillosoph@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 19:53:03 <andythenorth> ach 19:53:39 <andythenorth> we established a solution before: cascading livery rules for groups with numeric weightings 19:53:43 <Rubidium> andythenorth: what method would you propose to make liveries only apply to a subset of the vehicles? 19:53:59 <Rubidium> without the use of groups that is 19:54:01 <Eddi|zuHause> groups should work like selections. i give it a few criteria and lists all vehicles that match. then i want to perform orders on all these vehicles 19:54:30 <andythenorth> but if you want those changes to be maintained dynamically...you need magic 19:54:34 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:54:52 <andythenorth> Rubidium: something like current 19:54:59 <andythenorth> just use the cargo type or propulsion type 19:55:04 <andythenorth> and keep the current livery menu 19:55:15 * Eddi|zuHause now understands what they taught in software engineering when they said "the requirements are not always clear, and often contradicting" 19:55:54 * andythenorth worries this: 19:56:05 <andythenorth> 'groups' are the proposed solution to a lot of problems 19:56:13 <andythenorth> but the only way to make them do all the things desired 19:56:22 <andythenorth> is to introduce a system of cascading rules and weightings 19:56:35 <andythenorth> which the player will need to figure out and maintain 19:56:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see this working... 19:56:45 <andythenorth> so now, instead of some annoying tasks with vehicles 19:56:53 <andythenorth> I have a magic system to do the annoying tasks for me 19:57:04 <andythenorth> but I have to maintain an annoying list of magic potion rules 19:57:22 <andythenorth> which start to interact horribly 19:57:23 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of "cascading", just enforce the "uniqueness" of certain properties. 19:57:25 <andythenorth> :o 19:57:28 * andythenorth remembers something 19:57:37 <andythenorth> seen disney's sorcerer's apprentice? 19:57:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. if you (dynamically or manually) create a group, and give it an autoreplace order, remove all vehicles from previous autoreplace groups they were in 19:57:55 <Rubidium> so... I guess we ought to just trash liveries all together 19:58:16 * andythenorth has auto-magical html things before 19:58:20 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the sorcerer's apprentice is a poem by Goethe. every german must learn it in school 19:58:20 <Rubidium> oh, and trash groups as those are just troublesome to set up 19:58:59 <andythenorth> he 19:59:10 <andythenorth> currently they are pretty good 20:00:40 <Eddi|zuHause> the most pressing thing about groups that i am currently missing is: "take all ungrouped vehicles, and put them in a group with their shared orders. create new groups if not existing" 20:01:12 <andythenorth> interesting 20:01:31 <andythenorth> it's another way of saying 'routes are a type of group' 20:02:09 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. it's already partly implemented by the selection "add shared order vehicles to this group" 20:02:15 <andythenorth> Rubidium: do you ever set any livery? 20:02:58 <Rubidium> in what kind of setting? Testing stuff or actually gameplay? 20:03:04 <andythenorth> gameplay ;) 20:03:16 <Rubidium> then no; can't be bothered 20:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i set them for trams/busses 20:03:37 <Rubidium> well, sometimes the company colour is annoying so I change that... but that's hardly changing liveries 20:03:42 <Eddi|zuHause> rail is unnessesary because dbset doesn't have company colours 20:03:58 * andythenorth does ponder 20:04:19 <andythenorth> is it possible to store the cc on a per-vehicle basis? 20:04:23 <Rubidium> but then I have rarely played for the gameplay 20:07:44 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21967 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Prepare: for 1.1.0-beta5 20:11:16 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21968 /tags/1.1.0-beta5/: -Release: 1.1.0-beta5 20:12:00 <Eddi|zuHause> a release before midnight? :p 20:13:40 <Prof_Frink> r22k before midnight? 20:13:46 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: nah, rather 22 hours after midnight 20:15:21 * andythenorth obsessively tries to find a valid way to classify ships for livery purposes :D 20:15:44 * andythenorth should do draw FIRS instead 20:17:16 <andythenorth> so the train livery types are considered 'broken' following introduction of railtypes? 20:17:42 <Prof_Frink> No. Draw OAKS. 20:19:22 <DanMacK> hah hah 20:21:07 <andythenorth> Oaks Acronym Killer Set 20:22:09 <Katje> is there anyway to control which station takes the produce from an industry ? 20:22:23 <Katje> say I have two stations either side of a saw mill 20:22:31 <Katje> but I only want the goods to goto one of them 20:24:43 <glx> just send the right train at the right place 20:24:46 <andythenorth> serve that one more 20:24:57 <andythenorth> more goods go to the one with higher station rating 20:27:44 <Katje> ok 20:29:00 <peter1138> andythenorth, not 'broken' just 'didn't consider it' 20:29:27 <andythenorth> hmm hmm 20:29:29 <andythenorth> :) 20:29:40 * andythenorth doesn't know what to do about ships :( 20:29:48 <andythenorth> can it be so hard? It's just pixels 20:31:02 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 20:31:48 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:10 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 20:32:42 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-110-195.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:33:55 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:34:21 <andythenorth> hah 20:34:40 <andythenorth> we'll just draw older ships with black hulls. No CC (or minimal) 20:34:46 * andythenorth takes the easy way out :D 20:40:08 *** guru3_ is now known as guru3 20:44:20 <z-MaTRiX> hey-ho 20:49:11 <supermop> Would it be weird to go to my boss's DJ set tonight? 20:49:53 <andythenorth> nah 20:51:35 <supermop> it is his first one in a really long time, and he is sort of nervous 20:51:55 <supermop> but i don't usually go out to see DJs in the city 21:06:13 * andythenorth ponders an evil lime green colour for lime works :D 21:07:30 <supermop> limeade works? 21:07:50 <Terkhen> ectoplasm wells? 21:07:58 <andythenorth> maybe in toyland version :P 21:08:06 * andythenorth ponders 21:08:13 <andythenorth> replace toyland with 'haloween' climate? 21:08:18 <supermop> actually 21:08:52 <supermop> a special toyland or whimsy FIRS economy would be an interesting thought experiment 21:16:23 <DanMacK> TOYS? 21:17:09 <supermop> heh 21:17:13 <supermop> toy supplies 21:18:23 <Terkhen> andythenorth: will you include a "stuff" economy? 21:18:39 <andythenorth> if you code it :P 21:18:41 <andythenorth> red stuff 21:18:43 <andythenorth> blue stuff 21:18:46 <andythenorth> green stuff 21:18:49 <Terkhen> I can do the specs for you 21:18:53 <Terkhen> cargos: stuff 21:19:08 <Terkhen> industries: "place where they make stuff" 21:19:12 <Terkhen> that's all :) 21:19:58 <supermop> would still be fun 21:23:14 <DanMacK> Actually, could do it as "Stuff" and "Things" 21:23:26 <DanMacK> You need stuff to make things 21:23:58 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:24:12 <Terkhen> sounds overcomplicated :P 21:24:15 <DanMacK> lol 21:24:34 <DanMacK> Train sets ahve 2 cars... stuff hopper and things van :P 21:24:40 <Terkhen> :D 21:24:53 <Rubidium> yeah, and then use the things to make more stuff 21:25:18 <Rubidium> preferably more output than input ;) 21:25:37 <Alberth> trains have to pull things and push stuff 21:28:03 <andythenorth> can I set livery differently for stuff and things? 21:28:04 <andythenorth> :P 21:28:16 <andythenorth> it would surely make solving groups easier? 21:35:07 <DJNekkid> how CPU expensive is VarAction2 Variable 4A for vehicles? (check railtype) 21:37:34 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe86de00-46.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 21:38:24 <planetmaker> good evening 21:38:49 <DanMacK> Hey PM 21:39:55 <andythenorth> hi planetmaker 21:40:00 <andythenorth> what larks :D 21:41:53 <michi_cc> DJNekkid: not very much 21:42:50 <DJNekkid> michi_cc: any thoughts about that vs B4 (speed) ? 21:43:57 <DJNekkid> as I probably need both 21:44:07 <DJNekkid> if B4 > 0, check for 4A 21:44:45 <michi_cc> B4 is less expensive, but both are still very low complexity 21:45:03 <DJNekkid> or i could if B4 = <number> <do something>, if <another number>< do something else> <default if neither> 21:45:22 <michi_cc> Do you want to use that every tick or only for CB36 or so? 21:45:40 <DJNekkid> well, its about adjusting running costs if on certain tracks 21:45:55 <DJNekkid> so that a TGV (for example) wont get 'high' costs if it runs on 'slow' tracks 21:46:09 <DJNekkid> as it dont need to utilize all of its 12000hp to overcome air drag and such 21:46:24 <planetmaker> then let it depend on actual speed 21:46:30 <planetmaker> you can easily test that 21:46:34 <DJNekkid> but the problem is 21:46:42 <DJNekkid> one can adjust the speed on the tracks :) 21:46:48 <planetmaker> yes? 21:46:52 <DJNekkid> reqeusted by you iirc 21:46:57 <DJNekkid> :P 21:47:25 <planetmaker> Maybe. But why depend the running cost on the track type and not on the actual speed? 21:47:44 <DJNekkid> because when a train accelerate it usually use all of its available power (i would assume) 21:47:47 <planetmaker> at least if your argument is air drag - which is speed 21:47:52 <Yexo> making the running cost depend on the track type will fail when someone uses a railtype you don't know about that is still compatible 21:48:09 <michi_cc> No idea how you implement running costs internally, but CB36 is called when the railtype changes to get new power/TE etc, so maybe you can store some stuff during that. 21:48:21 <Yexo> you can't for vehicles 21:48:27 <DJNekkid> michi_cc: i know _how_ to do it, and that is via CB36 21:48:39 <DJNekkid> but i feels that the 2cc trainset is already somewhat cpu expensive as it is 21:49:02 <DJNekkid> Yexo: the plan were to skip that 'procedure' if NuTracks isnt loaded 21:49:30 <michi_cc> Well, CB36 isn't called often enough to that 4A would have any noticable effect for that. 21:49:54 <DJNekkid> oki, then I'll go for the combi-solution 21:50:25 <DJNekkid> planetmaker: the argument isnt air drag as such, 21:50:34 <planetmaker> it was yours ;-) 21:50:40 <planetmaker> And I haven't seen another 21:50:54 <michi_cc> You could use bit 9 if 4A at least to reduce running cost if not powered and only dragged in a consist even if you don't know the actual railtype. 21:50:55 <DJNekkid> but a 12000hp 300kmh topspeed train wont use (i would assume) all of its power when driveing 125kmh 21:51:15 <planetmaker> DJNekkid: yes. And that is directly checked by the speed 21:51:19 <Rubidium> it could while accelerating 21:51:27 <DJNekkid> Rubidium: my point exactly 21:51:42 <DJNekkid> and why i dont think i should do: if between <this> and <that> 21:51:47 <Rubidium> but neither would it use all its power when at 300 km/h 21:52:11 <planetmaker> ok, then an overloaded train at 120km/h on high-speed tracks is more expensive to run than on a side line? 21:52:14 <DJNekkid> but in the 'game reality' i think we could assume so 21:52:34 <planetmaker> sounds... quite fishy 21:52:51 <michi_cc> 4A is defined as a DWORD so there would be enough space to also return the max speed of the tracks, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort only for 2ccset running costs. 21:53:22 <DJNekkid> Here is the idea anyway: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2245 21:53:48 <DJNekkid> planetmaker: i think that a TGV would need QUITE ALOT of wagons to go at 120kmh:P 21:54:26 <DJNekkid> The basis of the idea is the game me and ChillCore is currently playing 21:54:38 <DJNekkid> where i had a very high speed mainline between some cities 21:54:46 *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has quit [Quit: fmauneko] 21:54:47 <DJNekkid> but one that had a 180kmh sideline grew quite abit 21:54:55 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:54:59 <DJNekkid> and i felt that it should have its own intercity trains 21:55:03 <planetmaker> still I maintain that depending on track type is not really sensible 21:55:04 <DJNekkid> and thus TGV's 21:55:22 <planetmaker> why would the kirby paul be more expensive to run on a hst than on the 80km/h track? 21:55:29 <DJNekkid> it wont 21:55:45 <DJNekkid> its only 'high' vs 'lower' 21:55:50 <DJNekkid> 'higher' vs 'lower' 21:57:21 <Rubidium> there should be like 3 components to the running cost: time based running cost (personel), distance based (wear), speed based (power consumption) 21:58:01 <Rubidium> though I guess for ease you could scrap the distance based component 21:58:20 <DJNekkid> but if i base the decision on the top speed of an actual track it will break at the minute you change the low speed (125kmh) tracks max speed to more or less then 125 21:58:37 <DJNekkid> and thus would the current track type be smarter 21:58:56 <DJNekkid> Rubidium: i also count the 'wear' as 'speed' 21:59:14 <DJNekkid> as 300kmh operations would wear down stuff more then i.e. 125kmh 21:59:33 <Alberth> just keep it fixed, maintenance of high-tech trains is high no matter how you use them. In fact, by lowering costs you kill the idea that you need to get an engine matching your tracks 22:00:25 *** ar3k [~ident@ebs167.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 22:00:26 <Rubidium> Alberth: but then the "smart" thing to do is just fill the map with high speed track as it doesn't matter anyway 22:00:40 <DJNekkid> that is also why top speed is a quite big part of the running cost in the 2cc set 22:00:49 <DJNekkid> with power as the 2nd main component 22:01:08 <Alberth> and with high-speed trains, as running them at slower tracks is just as cheap as a slower engine 22:01:12 <Rubidium> but giving the user a (small) choice to let the high speed train, at reduced cost, run at the same speed as the normal traffic on a relatively small side line sounds "good" 22:01:58 <DJNekkid> Alberth: it might be, but when 1 tile of 'unlimited' speed track cose 10k £, and 1 tile of 180kmh track cost 1k (iirc) 22:04:18 <DJNekkid> Rubidium: that was also my thought :) 22:04:29 <DJNekkid> and IRL that happens quite often 22:05:26 <DJNekkid> TGV's and similars use the 'old' tracks from abit outside a city and into the station, and then on separate high speed tracks inbetween them 22:13:51 <DJNekkid> get his patchpack and the latest 2cc-set nightly and come and see what i mean :P 22:14:14 <DJNekkid> (r734) 22:15:15 <Alberth> are default industries forced to be available? 22:17:26 *** ar3k [~ident@ebs167.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: âI-n-v-i-s-i-o-nâ 3.2 (July '10)] 22:17:37 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 22:18:35 <andythenorth> good night 22:18:35 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.112.189.24] has left #openttd [] 22:25:35 *** Chillosophy [Chillosoph@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 22:30:12 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 22:32:22 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 22:33:42 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 22:35:11 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:36:20 <dihedral> Rubidium, regarding fs4464 - would it make sense to make use of the move handling? 22:37:42 <dihedral> and move the client to spectators locally after the bankruptcy handling 22:39:02 <Rubidium> if you can ensure that the move command gets to the clients on time 22:39:06 <Rubidium> but you can't 22:39:52 <dihedral> i thought this assert was only the case when the local company went bankrupt 22:40:13 <Rubidium> yes 22:40:27 <Rubidium> but local to the "client" 22:40:28 <Terkhen> good night 22:40:41 <Rubidium> night Terkhen 22:41:01 <dihedral> yes, so the move does not have to go by all other servers because the other clients handle the bankruptcy correctly already 22:41:09 <dihedral> or am i confusing something (yet again) 22:41:26 <dihedral> s/servers/clients/ 22:41:41 <Rubidium> oh, but it uses the client-to-spectator move methodology 22:42:00 <Rubidium> problem is that it happens at a moment where that move won't work at all 22:42:15 <dihedral> move beforehand? :-P 22:42:43 <Rubidium> that would mean before the state game loop 22:42:51 <Rubidium> which is kinda troublesome 22:43:03 <Rubidium> as at that moment we don't know the next quarter is started 22:43:13 <Rubidium> and as such we don't know that the company could be bankrupt 22:43:38 <dihedral> or we delay the bankruptcy with a type of 'callback' till after the move 22:43:50 <dihedral> and instead trigger the move 22:44:05 <Rubidium> okay... 22:44:11 <dihedral> the move will, after performed, correctly handle the bankruptcy 22:44:21 <Rubidium> problem: can't change local company in StateGameLoop 22:44:27 <dihedral> ah 22:44:36 <Rubidium> problem: must do bankruptcy in StateGameLoop 22:44:59 <Rubidium> solution: uhm... 22:45:23 <dihedral> yes :-P 22:45:52 <dihedral> why does bankruptcy have to be handled in StateGameLoop? and not during a time where local company can be changed? 22:46:30 <Rubidium> because the date is changed in the StateGameLoop 22:46:37 <dihedral> would it not suffice to set a flag 22:46:40 <Rubidium> which triggers all the daily/monrthly/yearly stuff 22:46:49 <Rubidium> which triggers the bankruptcy check 22:47:14 <Rubidium> and doing that check almost 7000 times more than needed is somewhat a problem 22:47:47 <Rubidium> *especially* as the bankruptcy check updates a counter 22:47:49 <dihedral> if it's just a multiplayer issue, let the server send out a bankruptcy packet :-P 22:48:29 <Rubidium> if that packet arrives too late the client tries to execute a command as non-existant local user and: boom! 22:48:49 <dihedral> which is the same with the move command 22:49:14 <dihedral> and the move probably happens more often than the bankruptcy 22:49:56 <dihedral> and this could still be handled server side, adding a check to incomming packets 22:50:47 <Rubidium> how can locally dereferencing an invalid company = NULL pointer be checked server side? 22:50:49 <dihedral> client status which gets set, a bankruptcy packet from server to clients and a corresponding ack packet to the server from the affected clients to set their client status back again 22:51:04 <Rubidium> the move command is not handled in the StateGameLoop, thus it goes alright 22:51:10 <dihedral> ah 22:51:13 <dihedral> :-P 22:51:27 <Rubidium> sending a bankruptcy packet from the server gives you all kinds of trouble w.r.t. syncing 22:51:35 <Rubidium> unless, ofcourse, you send the actual command 22:51:51 <Rubidium> but that seems to be complicating stuff quite a lot 22:51:52 <Yexo> TrueBrain: noai.openttd.org/svn returns 502 bad gateway 22:52:00 <dihedral> would have to be a command, to keep it in sync with everything else, yes 22:52:21 <Yexo> it's not used a lot, but it'd be nice to keep it running until all projects are moved 22:57:36 <Rubidium> dihedral: doing the command would probably be quite easy... but... 22:57:44 <Rubidium> only the server may execute it 22:57:59 <Rubidium> and it might be somewhat troublesome for single player 22:58:13 <Rubidium> as it'd be executing a command in the state game loop 22:58:35 <Rubidium> though... hmm... in SP you can't go bankrupt 22:58:46 <Rubidium> so the command is never called with SetLocalCompany 22:59:21 <dihedral> though it might be interesting to fix it in a way that could allow bankruptcy in sp too 22:59:39 <dihedral> as 'loosing' a game also belongs to the gameplay 23:00:30 <dihedral> and personally i'd probably prefere a solution without a docommand :-P 23:00:48 <dihedral> but it sounds to be very hard to find exactly that 23:01:08 <Rubidium> well, bankruptcy uses a DoCommand already, just not a DoCommandP 23:05:26 <dihedral> al 23:05:30 <dihedral> *ah 23:08:50 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A419.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:25 <dihedral> what if the brankruptcy progress just took a little longer? i.e. set a bankrupt flag, if set do not allow the company to send further commands, and process the bankruptcy once it's ok to change local company 23:12:59 *** ar3k [~ident@edb45.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 23:13:07 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8829.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 23:13:14 <dihedral> i think i just triggered my own dja-vu 23:13:18 <dihedral> :-( 23:16:17 *** thomas001 [~thomas@p5B0F6995.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:17:43 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 23:18:50 <Rubidium> oh lovely.. 23:18:59 <Rubidium> it also fails with a DoCommandP 23:19:40 <Rubidium> which is bad as well 23:19:55 <thomas001> hi, i am running 1.1.0-beta5. there seems to be an audio mixing bug on windows: the music volume affects the sound volume as it also scales the sound volume, so sound is always quiter than music. especially when you set music volume to zero there is also no sound. 23:20:31 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa250.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:48 <Rubidium> thomas001: then Windows is mapping both to the same thing and OpenTTD can't do much about that 23:21:59 <thomas001> Rubidium, but i can have no sound, but music 23:22:00 *** ar3k [~ident@edb45.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:22:38 <thomas001> it feels like actual music volume = (set music volume); actual sound volume = (set music volume)*(set sound volume) 23:23:29 <Rubidium> then I'd guess the midi playback device is setting the global volume and the wav playback device is setting only the wav volume 23:24:12 <thomas001> that whould be an explanation, can openttd do sth about this? 23:25:01 *** ar3k [~ident@eda133.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 23:25:54 <Rubidium> not that I'm aware; you could try "the other" midi playback, but I don't know which of the two it is and which other bugs that might trigger 23:26:18 <thomas001> that do you mean by "the other"? 23:26:45 <Rubidium> OpenTTD supports two APIs for midi playback 23:26:59 <Rubidium> you're now using one, you might have luck with "the other" 23:28:36 <thomas001> how to switch? 23:29:07 <Rubidium> there's a command line switch/setting for it 23:29:17 <thomas001> thx 23:29:26 <dihedral> openttd.exe /? 23:29:39 <dihedral> or is it still --help 23:30:27 <thomas001> hmm it lists only "win32" as available music driver 23:30:31 <thomas001> --help worked 23:31:39 <Rubidium> 64 bits OpenTTD/Windows? 23:31:46 <thomas001> yes 23:31:52 <planetmaker> good night 23:31:58 <dihedral> good night planetmaker 23:31:59 <thomas001> gn8 planetmaker 23:32:15 <Rubidium> thomas001: ah, then Windows doesn't have "the other one" 23:32:21 <dihedral> :-D 23:32:23 <thomas001> :D 23:32:24 <Rubidium> unless you switch to the 32 bits binary 23:33:02 *** ar3k [~ident@eda133.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:33:10 <thomas001> ok so basically its a flaw in windows' midi implementation and i am stuck with it until i switch to 32bit? 23:33:23 <thomas001> (32bit openttd) 23:33:42 <dihedral> what forces bankruptcy to be processed in that StateGameLoop and not at a time where local company may be changed? 23:36:25 <Rubidium> I already told you that... 23:36:39 <dihedral> snap! sorry about that 23:36:42 <Rubidium> when would *you* trigger a quarterly bankruptcy check? 23:37:16 <Rubidium> maybe at like the moment you get into a quarter? 23:39:01 <dihedral> trigger the check != processing 23:39:37 <Rubidium> then you need to maintain whether tou need to process it 23:39:40 <z-MaTRiX> hi 23:39:54 <z-MaTRiX> found another target linux system 23:39:59 <dihedral> Rubidium, yes, but is that not easier? 23:39:59 <Rubidium> seems a "bad" approach to me 23:40:23 <dihedral> hello, z-MaTRiX 23:40:23 <Rubidium> dihedral: DoCommandP does that already 23:40:28 <dihedral> what have you found, z-MaTRiX 23:41:04 <z-MaTRiX> https://www.scientificlinux.org/ 23:41:21 <z-MaTRiX> based on rhel 23:41:29 <z-MaTRiX> put together by Fermilab, CERN 23:42:36 <dihedral> yes, i saw what it was based on :-P 23:42:43 <z-MaTRiX> seems like more suitable to me than centos 23:43:03 <dihedral> seems to me like it'd make no difference 23:43:06 <z-MaTRiX> (i am testing it right now) 23:43:08 *** ar3k [~ident@eda133.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 23:44:10 <dihedral> Rubidium, what problem did the DoCommandP then have? 23:44:12 <z-MaTRiX> you mean the core is basicalla the same? 23:44:19 <z-MaTRiX> *basically 23:44:27 <dihedral> you said it still shoed the same issue? 23:44:30 <dihedral> how come then? 23:45:13 <dihedral> z-MaTRiX, grml is another linux distribution :-P 23:45:21 <z-MaTRiX> ;/ 23:45:22 <z-MaTRiX> yes 23:45:41 <z-MaTRiX> i have a grml livecd and was unable to boot 23:46:11 <dihedral> anyway - i shall get my rest 23:46:14 <dihedral> have a good night 23:46:17 <z-MaTRiX> this is probably because i only have magical hardware 23:46:25 <z-MaTRiX> bb 23:47:07 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f736873.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:51:17 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:58:58 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe42e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:24 *** rieksts [Davis@d40a5f87.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #openttd