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00:09:00 *** Chris_Booth_ [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 00:13:39 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:13:43 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth 00:15:38 *** lucas92 [~lucas92@bas2-stlambert20-2925120089.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 00:19:33 *** lucas92 [~lucas92@bas2-stlambert20-2925120089.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 00:26:42 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFEFF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:09 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9f7:2eb5:4fef:8b64] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:58:00 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@ppp118-209-24-43.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 01:04:11 *** Biolunar_ [~mahdi@blfd-5d8234b1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 01:11:17 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d82050d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:12:36 *** Biolunar_ [~mahdi@blfd-5d8234b1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 01:23:19 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-217-146.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:45:22 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-181-212.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:13:21 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:16:39 *** Markavian [~Markavian@90.86-67-202.dynamic.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:26:26 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-138-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:32:00 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-207-214.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:34:42 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:36:28 *** Lechie is now known as Lachie 04:46:19 <Terkhen> good morning 04:49:16 <Rubidium> moin Terkhen 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77575.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:23 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73D3C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:41:26 <planetmaker> moin 05:49:35 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 06:11:08 *** TinoDid|znc [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has joined #openttd 06:13:51 *** TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:13:51 *** TinoDid|znc is now known as TinoDidriksen 06:16:48 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 06:20:29 *** pikka [~yaaic@120.17.49.69] has joined #openttd 06:20:37 <pikka> ew 06:20:56 <Terkhen> hi pikka 06:21:08 <pikka> hello 06:21:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 06:21:29 <pikka> hello andy 06:22:18 <andythenorth> hello mr bird 06:22:24 <andythenorth> long time no sea 06:22:24 <pikka> McDonald's is always a bad idea :l 06:22:35 <andythenorth> pikka: mcdonald's always is 06:22:41 <andythenorth> miss millie's less so 06:22:47 <pikka> fishhhh 06:22:53 <andythenorth> and chips 06:23:05 <pikka> I don't even know what miss millies is 06:23:41 <andythenorth> this is what the internet was made for 06:23:42 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Millie's_Fried_Chicken 06:24:00 <pikka> all I know is I'm in the depths of the qsbs eating McDonald's 06:24:22 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:24:23 <pikka> and it is revolting 06:24:52 <andythenorth> you're inside a qualified small business stock? :o 06:25:00 <Terkhen> that looks like a KFC, except that it's not from Kentucky :P 06:25:32 <pikka> no, I'm inside the 3rd ghit 06:25:50 <andythenorth> pikka: may we discuss newgrfs? 06:26:04 <pikka> certainment 06:26:40 <andythenorth> how goes ukrs 2 addons? 06:27:02 <pikka> I was looking at them just the other day 06:27:20 <pikka> I think that might.be my next.priority 06:27:34 <pikka> with additional punctuation 06:27:51 <andythenorth> that would be nice.nice 06:28:15 <pikka> yas 06:28:27 <andythenorth> I _might_ start a truck set soon 06:28:34 <andythenorth> may I borrow HOVS graphics to get it started? 06:28:36 <pikka> uhoh 06:28:43 <pikka> sure 06:28:56 <pikka> although give is largely original ttd 06:29:02 <pikka> hovs 06:29:02 <andythenorth> ok 06:29:48 <andythenorth> I think RVs should be a bit smaller than default 06:30:06 <pikka> yes 06:30:19 <pikka> especially compared to ukrs2 06:31:32 <andythenorth> should RV capacity be bigger or smaller than RL, for gameplay purposes? 06:32:08 *** ar3k [~ident@ecg192.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 06:32:46 <planetmaker> hey ho. pikka something I thought the other day, as an idea: 06:32:58 <pikka> for gameplay porpoises I'd stick with typical = 30, as with trains 06:33:08 <planetmaker> your trainsets - for me - start to reach the borderline of 'too many vehicles' 06:33:49 <planetmaker> what about a parameter "all" and "minimal subset" where the latter would enable one vehicle per time for each "task" (like heavy fright or express, possibly later also MU) 06:34:15 <pikka> possibly, planetmaker 06:34:38 <pikka> although I think ukrs2 is already reasonably streamlined 06:34:57 <planetmaker> but maybe that's just me as I always play with 'never expire'. I didn't quite test it without that setting. I play so slowly that it's boring without and I'd not get to see 90% of vehicles when I have vehicles expire 06:35:21 <pikka> nars is pretty overloaded with samey diesel but don't blame me for that :p 06:35:28 <planetmaker> :-P 06:36:56 <planetmaker> note that I don't say "there are too many". But I have the feeling there'll be, if more is added :-) 06:36:58 <pikka> I have had plans for very small (ie 6-10 locos) sets, for multiplayer featuring multiple balanced sets 06:37:19 <pikka> but that's not come to anything yet 06:37:27 <planetmaker> sounds like a idea worth persuing or at least testing how it fares 06:38:21 <pikka> what would be nice for that, hint hint, is a callback for populating the purchase list 06:38:45 <pikka> so that certain players could be limited to certain sets 06:38:45 <andythenorth> action 7, climate setting :P 06:39:01 <pikka> callback Andy :p 06:39:24 <pikka> I should make a wishlist thread like yours :p 06:39:29 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ebk5.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:39:46 <andythenorth> just add to it :P 06:39:48 <planetmaker> :-) 06:39:59 <andythenorth> it is (slowly) effective 06:40:12 <andythenorth> or I realise an idea is stupid :P 06:40:21 <andythenorth> like 'fords' 06:41:16 <pikka> :) 06:41:22 <planetmaker> anyway, I'm off for today, Enjoy it :-) 06:41:26 <pikka> roadtypes! 06:41:33 <pikka> Gnight planet 06:42:20 * pikka waiting for a bus 06:43:15 <andythenorth> pikka: did you try a game with YACD? 06:43:41 <pikka> not yet, it sounds very promising though 06:43:57 <andythenorth> needs more small things 06:44:20 <andythenorth> i.e small engines 06:44:50 <pikka> did you see the norseman? :p 06:44:58 <pikka> needs newairports though 06:45:47 <andythenorth> everything seems to need newairports 06:45:48 <andythenorth> :P 06:45:58 <andythenorth> newairports needs newairports 06:46:10 <pikka> yep 06:46:42 <pikka> newairports will really make things happen with av8 :) 06:50:35 <peter1138> peeeka :D 06:51:26 <andythenorth> pita 06:51:41 <pikka> harro 06:57:40 <pikka> nearly time for me to drive out of the city and back four and a half times 06:57:57 <pikka> oh 06:58:10 <pikka> only 3 and a half :D 06:59:18 <pikka> talk to you gentlemen later :) 06:59:23 *** pikka [~yaaic@120.17.49.69] has quit [Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org] 07:01:58 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 07:01:58 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:03:01 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 07:03:01 * andythenorth wonders what pikka is up to 07:03:07 <andythenorth> back and forth, back and forth on a bus? 07:06:39 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe64de00-55.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:07:27 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 07:22:07 *** Amis [~Amis@5400C349.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 07:22:24 <andythenorth> Rubidium: any improve bananas should still use mySQL? 07:22:36 <andythenorth> you don't want Yet Another Database Technology to support on the server? 07:28:43 <peter1138> mysql smells :( 07:29:10 * andythenorth is happier with an object database 07:29:16 <peter1138> a what? 07:29:22 <andythenorth> that's what most people say :P 07:29:55 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zope_Object_Database 07:30:03 <andythenorth> for some things it's just easier 07:30:25 <andythenorth> instead of SELECT foo FROM bar etc etc 07:30:44 <andythenorth> you just do print bar.foo 07:31:23 <andythenorth> for i in bar: print i 07:31:24 <andythenorth> etc 07:31:28 <andythenorth> for some cases it's very good 07:31:33 <andythenorth> for others not 07:31:35 <peter1138> oh 07:31:51 <peter1138> well you can do that with an abstraction layer anyway 07:32:02 <andythenorth> yes 07:32:10 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-005-151.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:32:22 <andythenorth> and you can also serialise objects and put them in a relational db if you need performance 07:32:40 <peter1138> serialise objects is not good for querying 07:32:44 <peter1138> +d 07:32:46 <andythenorth> nope 07:33:08 <andythenorth> but it can be good where you need to cluster to gain performance 07:33:21 <Rubidium> andythenorth: how would you query for a particular subset of data then? 07:33:31 <andythenorth> in an object database? 07:33:35 <Rubidium> yes 07:33:47 <andythenorth> for all objects of type bar, look at value for foo 07:33:49 <andythenorth> it can suck 07:33:57 <andythenorth> depends on scale + implementation 07:34:17 <Rubidium> so it sucks for the content server, master server and updater 07:34:23 <andythenorth> probably 07:34:46 <Rubidium> oh, and it's python only? 07:35:27 <Rubidium> so you'd have to write a number of daemons in python as well 07:35:32 <andythenorth> that particular db is yes 07:35:50 <andythenorth> ruled out? 07:35:59 <Rubidium> and we'd still be running mysql for the bug tracker and wiki 07:36:25 <andythenorth> yeah I figured this wouldn't be the route to go 07:36:35 <andythenorth> not a problem, just means I have to lean more stuff 07:37:07 <andythenorth> Rubidium: what version of mysql is being used currently? 07:38:58 <Rubidium> 5.0-ish 07:40:24 <Rubidium> will become 5.1.49 in the future though 07:40:55 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE1AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:41:41 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5bc0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 07:42:07 * andythenorth adjusts the amount of chocolate on the baby 07:43:19 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:47:50 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE1AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58:05 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 07:59:01 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE1AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:59:12 <fjb> Moin 08:01:15 <Terkhen> hi fjb 08:01:32 <fjb> Moin Terkhen 08:13:23 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:13:27 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:15:57 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 08:17:32 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DE69.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:23:05 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-106-189.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o] 08:23:19 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:28:53 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 08:30:09 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 08:40:43 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:46:26 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has joined #openttd 09:00:46 <andythenorth> how do I tell hg to remove untracked files from a repo? 09:00:53 <andythenorth> I am googling, but new google is broken : 09:00:54 <andythenorth> :P 09:01:24 <Terkhen> andythenorth: enable the purge extension, then "hg purge" 09:01:33 <Terkhen> hg purge --all removes even ignored files 09:03:03 *** sliddy [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 09:03:25 <andythenorth> hmm 09:03:29 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:03:34 <andythenorth> excitingly, that has purged everything :P 09:03:39 <andythenorth> including tracked files 09:03:52 <andythenorth> maybe I forgot to commit 09:03:58 <andythenorth> nvm 09:04:04 * andythenorth starts again from scratch 09:05:04 <Terkhen> that's quite strange, I use purge all the time with added but not commited files and they never were deleted 09:05:16 <Terkhen> I have lost files that I forgot to add twice, though 09:13:40 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 09:14:47 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-106-189.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 09:14:50 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 09:16:25 <andythenorth> I didn't commit - that was the issue :P 09:18:50 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 09:21:39 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:22:33 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host48-173-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:23:18 <Wolf01> hello 09:23:37 <Alberth> hi 09:26:05 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC24DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:44:46 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-181-212.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:53:14 *** sliddy [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:53:30 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 09:58:49 <Zuu> Anyone on Linux or Windows that would like to help me testing a new release of Junctioneer? Mostly I would be happy to know that the download packages work on computers without all development environments. 10:02:00 <Zuu> (Junctioneer is a completely separete project to OpenTTD. It's a traffic intersection simulator) 10:08:02 * andythenorth wonders at best way to share a hg repo that is local to my machine currently 10:12:12 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 10:13:21 <Alberth> as in shared concurrent access, or just give a copy? 10:13:22 *** Chris_Booth_ [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:19:40 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:24:21 <Alberth> in the latter case, just archive the directory 10:25:14 <Alberth> you can also use hg serve 10:26:07 <andythenorth> as in just give a copy to one of you guys to test 10:27:53 <Alberth> you can even remove the checked-out copy of the files, not sure how though, perhaps a clone would work 10:31:36 <andythenorth> would anyone mind testing a buildout of pyramid for me? 10:31:43 <andythenorth> my plan is to try migrating bananas to it 10:31:50 <andythenorth> but I need to know the buildout is viable first 10:33:56 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/bananas-2.zip 10:34:06 <andythenorth> there's a readme in the archive 10:34:16 <andythenorth> if it's not self-explanatory, that is problem #1 :P 10:34:26 <andythenorth> only dependency is python 2.6 or more 10:35:07 <Terkhen> andythenorth: what do I need to do? 10:35:16 <Terkhen> follow the readme or not? :P 10:36:45 <andythenorth> follow the readme 10:48:58 <andythenorth> Terkhen: did you have chance to try that? ^ 10:49:03 <Terkhen> andythenorth: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/251/ 10:49:10 <Terkhen> sorry, I got distracted :) 10:49:29 <andythenorth> interesting 10:49:32 <andythenorth> what OS? 10:50:21 <Terkhen> linux 64 bits 10:50:32 <Terkhen> python 2.7.1 10:50:49 <andythenorth> do you have any other python versions? 10:50:57 <andythenorth> e.g. 2.6 10:51:06 <Rubidium> Zuu: new release = 0.2.0? Then the linked libsdl doesn't work for me 10:51:44 <Terkhen> andythenorth: no 10:52:58 <Alberth> bootstrap has no --prefix to specify installdir or so? 10:53:07 <Zuu> Rubidium: Yes the 0.2.0 10:53:09 <andythenorth> Terkhen: it looks like a permissions problem 10:53:19 <andythenorth> let me read about virtualenv 10:54:47 <Terkhen> I did not run it with sudo, but something like prefix would be great 10:55:19 <Rubidium> Zuu: oh... 32 bits binary... that won't work for me 10:55:37 <andythenorth> Terkhen: it would probably work with sudo 10:55:46 <andythenorth> but I don't want to screw with your system 10:55:48 <Zuu> Unfortunately I don't have a 64 bit environment at the moment. 10:56:19 <Zuu> It wouldn't be hard to create, but I fear it is not just to type "make" and it will just work. 10:57:09 <Terkhen> andythenorth: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/252/ <-- it seems that it works with sudo 10:57:17 <Terkhen> I don't get why it needs sudo, though 10:57:29 <andythenorth> well it's screwing with your system :P 10:57:39 <andythenorth> so I guess it wants permission 10:57:52 <andythenorth> I don't like this route, if I can figure out virtualenv, that's better 10:57:57 <Terkhen> ok 10:58:07 <andythenorth> I don't seem to have or be able to install easily virtualenv though 10:58:10 <Terkhen> don't worry, this system needs a big cleanup anyways :) 10:58:15 <andythenorth> Terkhen: can you try the rest of the steps? 10:58:18 <Terkhen> sure 10:58:45 <andythenorth> the stuff bootstrap.py installs shouldn't do much harm to the system, it's basically distribute / setup tools 10:58:54 <andythenorth> the stuff the buildout installs is localised anyway 10:59:32 <Rubidium> no ipv6? :( 11:01:21 <Rubidium> ah well, I guess it has to run via a proxy anyways 11:02:23 <Terkhen> andythenorth: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/253/ 11:02:34 <Terkhen> should I try to run it? 11:02:34 <andythenorth> worked 11:02:37 <andythenorth> yes please 11:05:56 <Zuu> Rubidium: Sorry for not being clear about the bit-ness, but thank you for highlighting that it is probably time that I look into adding 64bit support as I guess dual 32+64 bit libraries are not as common anymore as 5 years ago. 11:06:53 <Terkhen> andythenorth: Welcome to bananas, an application generated by the Pyramid web application development framework. <--- works 11:06:58 <andythenorth> :) 11:07:08 <andythenorth> so 64bit linux is ok 11:07:12 * andythenorth wonders about windows 11:07:21 <andythenorth> Terkhen: I don't like the sudo requirement 11:07:29 <Alberth> andythenorth: it's python 11:07:42 <andythenorth> yes 11:07:44 * Rubidium didn't need to sudo 11:07:50 <Terkhen> remind me later when I'm on windows, but I guess it will work 11:07:54 <andythenorth> it should do 11:07:55 <Terkhen> I don't like using sudo either 11:08:10 <Alberth> Rubidium: perhaps you had already installed that egg? 11:08:37 <andythenorth> for my next trick, I need to figure out how to build mysql if needed :P 11:08:42 <andythenorth> this might be a headache 11:09:00 <Rubidium> build mysql? 11:09:07 <andythenorth> if you don't have it 11:09:16 <Rubidium> oh... don't 11:09:20 <Rubidium> just have it as requirement 11:09:29 <andythenorth> that's lame :) 11:09:33 <Rubidium> like you're not building python either... 11:09:35 <andythenorth> there's a buildout recipe for mysql 11:10:43 <Alberth> linuces no doubt have a rpm or other package for it 11:11:37 <Rubidium> oh, don't forget a buildout of gcc 11:11:43 <Rubidium> as people might not have it 11:11:48 <Rubidium> but it's required for mysql 11:12:37 <andythenorth> :P 11:14:21 * Rubidium wonders whether there's a C compiler advanced enough to bootstrap binutils and gcc, but written in python 11:15:29 <Alberth> you'd need JPython :D 11:15:50 <Rubidium> sounds like it requires java 11:15:55 <Rubidium> which you'd need to build as well 11:15:56 <Alberth> yep 11:16:23 <andythenorth> is this a subtle way of saying "it's ok to have mysql as requirement" ? :P 11:17:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the wooden-hammer kind of subtle :p 11:17:26 <Terkhen> :D 11:17:28 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... how long does this usually take? 11:17:39 <Rubidium> no, I'm just wondering how much of a development system you'd need to fetch to go from "a python only environment" to a compiled mysql 11:18:12 <andythenorth> a lot :P 11:18:16 <Alberth> you could write the binutils in python first 11:18:26 <andythenorth> unless the recipe just called your OS package manager :P 11:18:49 <Alberth> not portable to windows :p 11:18:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: am i understanding this correctly that this "only" needs a c-compiler written in python? 11:19:19 <andythenorth> silly old windows 11:20:19 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: no idea exactly 11:21:03 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 11:21:12 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: not sure what i am to make of this output: http://pastebin.com/SDG1ibuj 11:21:15 <Rubidium> it needs at least a c compiler written in python, or at least "installable" by python without having to use a c compiler 11:21:57 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 11:22:44 <Eddi|zuHause> it shouldn't be too difficult to make one, if you don't care about optimising 11:23:20 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that probably worked 11:23:22 <Eddi|zuHause> you need python, ply, a grammar, and a description of the binary format/machine code 11:23:32 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: does step 2 work? 11:25:10 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: downloading always takes a while 11:25:15 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [] 11:25:17 <andythenorth> yup 11:25:27 <andythenorth> downloaded parts are usefully cached locally though 11:28:08 <andythenorth> brrr 11:28:20 <andythenorth> all pyramid tutorials refer to sqlite3 11:28:28 <andythenorth> I have to figure out how to bind to mysql 11:29:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and bananas is so big that it blows sqlite? 11:29:17 <Eddi|zuHause> or is sqlite too vulnerable/slow/other? 11:29:59 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it's more that (afaik) mysql is current db 11:30:13 <andythenorth> and asking Rubidium to support more dbs on production server is unfair 11:30:59 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: multiple concurrent modifiers of the same database 11:35:32 <andythenorth> bbl 11:35:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has left #openttd [] 11:37:56 *** Brianetta [~brian@212.183.140.41] has joined #openttd 11:45:01 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@host84-60-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 11:45:02 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest3373 11:45:02 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 11:50:25 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:50:33 *** Guest3373 [~wolf01@host48-173-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:58:57 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 12:03:32 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@ppp118-209-24-43.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:07:07 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:08:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 12:08:41 * andythenorth takes adventure into world of mysql 12:11:46 <andythenorth> hmm 12:11:59 <andythenorth> django apps can incrementally migrate to pyramid 12:12:06 <andythenorth> if I can understand this, it might be win 12:12:06 <andythenorth> http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid_cookbook/dev/porting.html 12:16:27 <andythenorth> the downside is I can't test because there's no easy way to build the django environment :P 12:16:32 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:7c78:ab26:45b8:bb73] has joined #openttd 12:16:36 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:18:03 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 12:19:27 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-104-43.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 12:20:37 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:20:41 <andythenorth> hmm 12:20:50 <andythenorth> I don't know the password for my local mysql :P 12:20:57 <bodis> hello 12:34:24 <Alberth> hello 12:39:51 <bodis> quick question 12:40:02 <bodis> lets say you build a rail station in a town 12:40:17 <bodis> it only picks up passengers and mail from a part it covers 12:40:35 <bodis> is tehr ea way to get passengers and mail from the rest of the town to this rail station? 12:40:48 <Alberth> start a bus service 12:41:02 <Alberth> and transfer them to the station 12:41:20 <Alberth> read about feeder systems at the wiki 12:41:27 <bodis> so then it will move mail to the rail station and you can then get the same mail through the trains? 12:41:31 <bodis> k 12:41:50 <Alberth> for mail you need trucks, but the principle is the same 12:42:11 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 12:42:26 <bodis> thanks reading about the feeder now 12:42:27 <Alberth> your busstops will be overcrowded in no time however 12:42:45 <bodis> how do you deal with that then? 12:43:18 <Alberth> another train station has a better chance, but even that may not be enough 12:43:49 <Alberth> I am not exactly sure whether it can be dealt with and/or how. I normally don't care to transport everybody 12:44:04 <bodis> yep 12:44:07 <bodis> thanks 12:44:11 <Alberth> I like cargoes much more :) 12:44:22 <bodis> yeah same here :) 12:44:33 <bodis> but that can be done the same way as well right? 12:44:45 <Alberth> but there are passengers reduction newgrfs that you can load 12:45:05 <bodis> does it matter that not all passengers are transfered? 12:45:34 <Alberth> industry cargoes are even better in the sense that you less likely want traffic in both directions, which is a problem with standard openttd 12:46:06 <Alberth> not at all, just the station rating of your station counts, which is determined by regular servicing of the station, etc 12:46:26 <Alberth> for all the details, see the game mechanics wiki page on station ratings :) 12:46:30 <bodis> k so it will have no bad effect if the station is full? 12:46:35 <bodis> ok 12:46:57 <bodis> thanks afk 12:46:57 <Alberth> no, on the contrary, your buses/trains will fill very quickly :) 12:47:29 <Alberth> it just looks awkward to have so many passengers in your station 12:47:43 <Alberth> people tend to want to have an empty station :) 12:48:21 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@host224-237-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 12:48:21 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest3376 12:48:21 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 12:48:23 *** Brianett1 [~brian@212.183.128.46] has joined #openttd 12:49:02 <__ln__> http://imgur.com/gallery/FxS2Q 12:49:34 * andythenorth has found his mysql install :P 12:52:54 *** Guest3376 [~wolf01@host84-60-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:53:27 *** Brianetta [~brian@212.183.140.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:54:05 <andythenorth> seems sqlalchemy is recommended a lot with pyramid 12:54:06 <andythenorth> http://www.sqlalchemy.org/ 12:56:06 <andythenorth> although I think I could also ZMySQLDA which is simple-ish and old (stable) http://www.zope.org/Members/adustman/Products/ZMySQLDA 12:59:31 <Alberth> mysql is not generally recommend as being very good afaik :p 13:01:26 <andythenorth> there's no way around that :P 13:02:05 <Alberth> you cannot use postgressql or so ? 13:02:24 <andythenorth> only if we migrate openttd db to that first 13:02:28 <Alberth> (not that it matters much at this stage, probably :) ) 13:03:30 <andythenorth> using mysql is a whole world of stuff I have to figure out now :) 13:05:54 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 13:06:57 <Eddi|zuHause> easy migration between different databases would be a good test for a framework 13:07:48 <andythenorth> sqlalchemy should support that 13:08:15 <Eddi|zuHause> btw: this was the output of step 2: http://pastebin.com/ydB9vkQG 13:08:24 <Alberth> #python recommends oursql, one of the regulars there has written it 13:08:36 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: did you try step 3? 13:08:47 <Eddi|zuHause> not yet 13:09:35 <Rubidium> Alberth: guess it depends on the usage 13:09:48 <andythenorth> http://packages.python.org/oursql/tutorial.html#use-with-orms 13:09:51 <Rubidium> and it has certainly gotten more important-ish features over time 13:10:03 * andythenorth can't decide if it's better or worse to use an orms 13:10:06 *** fjb|mobil [~androirc@p5DDFE1AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:10:18 <andythenorth> http://www.sqlalchemy.org/docs/intro.html#id1 13:10:39 <Alberth> I would expect that usage patterns make a huge difference indeed 13:10:40 <andythenorth> it makes for cleaner easier code, but is an extra concept to work with 13:10:53 <andythenorth> my last comment wrt to orm 13:11:46 <Alberth> andythenorth: just pick something and use it, no use trying to figure out the best without having knowledge to decide on imho 13:11:51 <andythenorth> indeed 13:12:06 <andythenorth> I'm going to do a pyramid tutorial with sqlite3 first 13:12:12 <andythenorth> otherwise I am *way* out of my depth 13:12:18 <andythenorth> bear in mind I normally just write the gui 13:12:22 <Alberth> at worst you have to implement it again, which is good for the program :p 13:12:53 <andythenorth> I could rewrite bananas in zope in about a day with better error handling, but you'd all hate it 13:13:03 <andythenorth> and pointy sticks would be waved at me 13:13:14 <andythenorth> and it would suck 13:13:53 <Alberth> not a good direction to take :p 13:15:24 *** fjb|mobil [~androirc@p5DDFE1AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC] 13:15:35 <andythenorth> but it would work :D 13:17:16 <Alberth> can it work and suck at the same time? :o 13:17:58 <Rubidium> am I understanding zope correctly that it can automagically export some data to a relational database? 13:18:49 <andythenorth> it has adapters to various relational databases 13:18:56 <andythenorth> but it's really *not* the way to go 13:19:11 <andythenorth> been there, done that, paid down the technical debt :P 13:19:30 * andythenorth has built more than one hybrid mysql+zodb app 13:19:38 <andythenorth> headache 13:19:59 <Ammler> for a start, I would extend current bananas, you can still work on a rewrite 13:20:28 <andythenorth> I think we've established that's near impossible 13:20:35 <andythenorth> as there is no dev environment 13:21:04 <andythenorth> I could create a repeatable buildout for whatever django version + deps are needed 13:21:10 <andythenorth> but that's a headache too 13:21:20 <andythenorth> especially if django is in any way patched or such 13:22:54 *** fjb|mobile [~fjb@p5DDFE1AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:22:56 <Rubidium> Ammler: please try to set up a bananas first 13:23:23 <Ammler> I can't believe a pro like TrueBrain made such a bad job there ;-) 13:23:59 <Ammler> did he never thought about that it might need updates? 13:24:24 <Alberth> more likely, django was not up to the job 13:24:32 <andythenorth> maybe 13:24:49 <andythenorth> the view on the interwebs seems to be that django is very capable, possibly a bit much so 13:25:03 <Alberth> you always find out such things afterwards :p 13:25:13 <TrueBrain> Ammler: no, I like writing software for open source projects that can't get any updates :D Lol :p 13:25:18 <andythenorth> bananas in principle looks like a very simple app, with a lot of condition-catching 13:25:26 * andythenorth may regret that statement 13:25:27 <Ammler> TrueBrain: exactly what I meant :-P 13:25:29 <Rubidium> Ammler: as far as I can see the debugging kinda went away when LDAP was added 13:25:37 <TrueBrain> for a long time it was no problem running a dev version. Somewhere along the line we did too much patching, and I dunno .. I am afraid touching it :D 13:25:54 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: it is exactly that :D Only the list of conditions is HUGE :p 13:26:06 <andythenorth> seems to be 80% of the actual code 13:26:13 <TrueBrain> and django is a perfect framework, for small projects, or normal projects 13:26:14 *** fjb|mobile [~fjb@p5DDFE1AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 13:26:21 <andythenorth> in some files, there are more imports than code :P 13:26:50 <TrueBrain> we started with django in the time translations came up 13:27:00 <TrueBrain> they admitted the initial implementation was bad :D 13:27:04 <Ammler> and how can you be sure, if you start a rewrite, the same issue doesn't happen again? 13:27:17 <TrueBrain> Ammler: how can you ever be sure of anything? 13:27:40 *** fjb|mobile [~fjb@p5DDFE1AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:27:53 <Ammler> maybe you could also revive the Giraffe :-) 13:28:04 <TrueBrain> lets put it differently, what are the choices: no real development setup, so patches will be guessing that need to be applied mostly in production 13:28:05 <Ammler> or how that project was called 13:28:29 <Eddi|zuHause> only normal people can do normal projects... :p 13:28:43 <Rubidium> Ammler: attempt 1: implementing without much knowledge, attempt 2: implementing with *much* more knowledge 13:28:47 <Eddi|zuHause> there can't possibly be a normal project around the internet :p 13:28:57 *** Brianett1 [~brian@212.183.128.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:29:05 <andythenorth> Rubidium: if I do attempt 2, I think that's mapping us back to attempt 1 :P 13:29:22 <TrueBrain> so first a design document of any kind would be needed 13:29:24 <Rubidium> Ammler: e.g. path signals 13:29:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: attempt 3 should go into production. 13:29:31 <TrueBrain> so you understand and know what should be done 13:29:43 <Ammler> Rubidium: :-D we don't talk about that now 13:29:51 <andythenorth> I think first I learn how to use pyramid with relational db 13:29:54 <andythenorth> and routing 13:29:59 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@kamina.ldn1.uk.e43.eu] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 13:30:00 <andythenorth> then we can talk design :P 13:30:06 <Rubidium> but ask any of the developers who have implemented something for the second or third time before it's right 13:30:36 <Ammler> TrueBrain: bitbucket used an additonal lib on top of django, maybe something like that could be useful? 13:30:42 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@2002:6d4a:c7b0::1] has joined #openttd 13:30:43 <andythenorth> compare HEQS code to FISH 13:30:54 <TrueBrain> Ammler: moar patchus!! 13:31:10 <Ammler> https://bitbucket.org/jespern/django-piston/wiki/Home 13:31:13 <TrueBrain> moar deps == moar fail :) 13:31:25 <TrueBrain> django is not right for OpenTTD 13:34:23 <TrueBrain> so yeah, andythenorth, take your time, read into what it is about, make a post where you ask for suggestion, collect it, make a nice suggestion as initial version, and go for it :) 13:34:46 <andythenorth> ;) 13:34:56 <andythenorth> I might need a collaborator wrt database design 13:34:58 <andythenorth> etc 13:35:05 <andythenorth> as I am proven to suck at that 13:35:06 <Ammler> and when you need server to play around, ping me :-) 13:35:12 <andythenorth> might / will /s 13:37:16 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:37:16 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 13:39:01 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22536 /trunk/src/network/core/tcp_admin.h: -Fix [FS#4632]: documentation omission regarding admin protocol 13:58:17 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc16-lewi15-2-0-cust395.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:59:43 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc16-lewi15-2-0-cust395.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 14:01:10 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc16-lewi15-2-0-cust395.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:15:14 <andythenorth> woah 14:15:18 <andythenorth> that's spooky 14:15:42 <andythenorth> my pyramid tutorial is saving data to a sqlite3 db and I haven't configured any db connection :P 14:16:47 <Rubidium> sqlite db == file on disk 14:17:15 <andythenorth> hoo 14:17:21 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it uses a memory database by default? 14:17:24 <andythenorth> wonder where that is on my filesystem 14:17:37 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: if it was a memory database, it wouldn't survive me killing the process? 14:17:38 *** Doorslammer [770b0ceb@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:17:43 <Ammler> either where your app is or in /tmp 14:18:04 <Ammler> might be a config setting :-) 14:18:20 <andythenorth> I'll just treat it as magic for now :P 14:18:21 <Rubidium> andythenorth: it being a single file that can only be accessed by one application is somewhat difficult when multiple applications need to read and write to it 14:18:31 <andythenorth> yup 14:18:35 <andythenorth> this is just a tutorial :) 14:19:10 <andythenorth> possibly a good way for me to figure out how to swap to mysql 14:19:16 <andythenorth> as the rest of the app is then written 14:19:55 <Rubidium> the question's also how well it works with changing data in the database that's not coming form itself 14:21:09 <Ammler> shouldn't happen 14:21:22 <Ammler> isn't api for such things? 14:22:14 <andythenorth> hmm 14:22:25 <andythenorth> the sqlite3 shell interface sucks :P 14:22:32 <andythenorth> can't figure that out 14:22:40 <Ammler> firefox has extension to browse sqlite 14:23:25 <Eddi|zuHause> what's wrong with the sqlite shell? 14:23:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it accepts sql. and gives you a table. 14:23:51 <Eddi|zuHause> what else do you want? 14:24:35 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22537 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Change [FS#3494]: replace the half small airport structure on the intercontinental airport with some grass 14:27:56 * andythenorth finds the tutorial.db 14:28:02 <andythenorth> less magic :P 14:28:41 <andythenorth> this tutorial is a lot more fun than drawing pixels 14:32:25 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@host201-173-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 14:32:25 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest3379 14:32:25 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 14:34:39 <andythenorth> the next section is 'adding tests' 14:34:44 <andythenorth> which obviously I'll skip :P 14:36:04 <Rubidium> but you'll need loads of tests for the uploaded bananas files 14:37:18 <andythenorth> I know :( 14:37:22 <andythenorth> tests are...dull :P 14:37:48 *** Guest3379 [~wolf01@host224-237-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:48:27 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22538 /trunk/src/airport_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#4619]: possible crash when opening the airport build window for the first time 14:52:32 *** Mycomeback31 [~Mycomebac@ANice-157-1-48-127.w90-36.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 14:54:43 <Rubidium> what does ~0.7777 furlong per fortnight on average? 14:56:47 *** Guest3214 [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:49 *** AD [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has joined #openttd 14:57:05 <andythenorth> the mid-atlantic fault? 14:57:09 <andythenorth> magnetic pole? 14:57:20 <andythenorth> glass? 14:57:26 *** AD is now known as Guest3384 14:57:32 <andythenorth> none of the above? 14:57:40 <andythenorth> at least on of those four answers is correct :P 14:57:45 <andythenorth> on / one s 14:58:15 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest3385 14:58:15 *** Guest3385 [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:58:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 14:59:12 <andythenorth> what's all this guest nick swapping? 14:59:18 <andythenorth> is oftc doing this? 14:59:56 <Rubidium> andythenorth: usually it's someone using (IIRC) the ghost command 15:00:59 <Rubidium> andythenorth: the latter of the four is definitely correct, but now I wonder whether I should give you the opportunity to try again 15:01:38 <Rubidium> although it'll take a while till the opportunity reaches you 15:02:11 * andythenorth is baffled 15:02:21 <andythenorth> and will learn about security and authentication instead 15:03:53 <Rubidium> am I speaking too much in riddles? 15:04:21 <andythenorth> perhaps 15:06:27 <Rubidium> Opportunity, the little Mars rover, has been going at ~0.7777 furlog per fortnight over the last ~7.5 years 15:06:34 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.68.243] has joined #openttd 15:07:20 <andythenorth> ah 15:07:25 *** Doorslammer [770b0ceb@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 15:07:29 <andythenorth> maybe pikka will include that in his secret 15:20:05 <frosch123> @calc 0.7777 * 1.0058/5/(24*14) 15:20:05 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 0.000465601583333 15:20:36 <frosch123> about 46 cm/hour ? 15:21:01 <Rubidium> yep 15:22:02 <frosch123> that might be the speed of the shadow on a number of sundials 15:25:13 <Alberth> it did not move during the winter, too little power then 15:32:56 * andythenorth wonders what to do next 15:35:11 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:36:29 <V453000> does anyone have a clue where to get Railway Arch 0.2.0 444EFF04 E9527F3E14BD6C64E3C6C88A98930BE7 ? cant seem to find it anywhere 15:39:27 <Terkhen> andythenorth: do you fancy writing a test newgrf for station var 0x69? :P 15:40:26 <Terkhen> hmm... or maybe some existing TTDPatch newgrf uses it already 15:42:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C7DF.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:44:16 <andythenorth> Terkhen: I'll look what it does 15:44:25 <Terkhen> ok :) 15:44:54 <andythenorth> Terkhen: what's it needed for ? 15:45:02 <andythenorth> I find that var odd :P 15:45:44 <Terkhen> having cargo acceptance stats for the few last months is useful for some variables at http://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/Town_Control 15:46:07 <Terkhen> the variable itself is not very interesting :) 15:46:48 <andythenorth> I wonder if it can be patched into CHIPS for a test 15:47:06 <andythenorth> what would you need to see from it? 15:48:09 <Terkhen> anything happening for each of the four possible return values 15:48:20 <Terkhen> I don't mind what :P 15:48:32 <andythenorth> let me see if I can patch against CHIPS then 15:48:33 <andythenorth> not sure 15:48:34 <Terkhen> whatever is easier for you 15:48:36 <Terkhen> ok :) 15:48:41 <andythenorth> I've not written station nfo 15:48:45 <andythenorth> yexo does it all :) 15:49:12 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.189.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:49:41 *** Guest3384 is now known as AD 15:52:42 <frosch123> Terkhen: use the newgrf debug gui 15:53:22 <Terkhen> oh, it shows variables? :O 15:53:24 <Terkhen> ok, thanks :) 15:53:34 <frosch123> well, and, i am very sure there is no public released grf which uses it 15:53:46 <frosch123> else it would already be implemented 15:54:11 <frosch123> Terkhen: you can click on the variables to enter 60+x parameters 15:54:28 *** fjb|mobile [~fjb@p5DDFE1AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:31 <frosch123> though you won't be able to enter var100 values :) 15:54:32 *** Mycomeback31 [~Mycomebac@ANice-157-1-48-127.w90-36.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]] 15:54:32 <Terkhen> that's awesome :) 15:54:56 <frosch123> blame rb :p 15:55:09 <Terkhen> andythenorth: thanks, it seems that I can check it without a test :P 16:02:45 <andythenorth> great 16:02:50 <andythenorth> I was feeding the baby anyway 16:03:25 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d822d5f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:03:29 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:03:32 <Terkhen> :) 16:04:38 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> that might be the speed of the shadow on a number of sundials <-- that would be a fairly big one... 16:04:45 <Eddi|zuHause> also, the speed depends on the date 16:04:57 <Eddi|zuHause> it's faster in winter 16:08:59 *** fjb|mobile [~fjb@89.204.137.97] has joined #openttd 16:11:11 <Rubidium> V453000: "Railway arch 0.2 is to be found in the VAST devellopment thread" 16:11:27 <V453000> yeah, I somehow found it when searching for VAST things :D thank you though 16:12:19 *** sliddy [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 16:18:19 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:30:49 *** ashledombos [~ashledomb@ris91-2-82-227-26-30.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:41:47 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:44:15 * andythenorth is lost 16:50:38 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:55:30 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 17:05:35 <Eddi|zuHause> hey, that series ended ages ago :p 17:05:49 * andythenorth is lost in pyramid :P 17:05:55 <andythenorth> not on a silly island 17:07:34 <andythenorth> there is a downside to a well documented framework 17:07:57 <Terkhen> too much to read? 17:08:19 <andythenorth> it's quite absorbing 17:08:36 <andythenorth> normally I just write code that doesn't work, until it does work 17:08:40 <andythenorth> or I get bored 17:08:56 <andythenorth> or copy and paste something else and hack at it 17:09:07 <andythenorth> documentation is like cheating 17:15:10 <Alberth> now you must concentrate on the real problem that you want to solve :p 17:19:10 <andythenorth> the real problem is understanding the framework :D 17:19:24 <andythenorth> it's not hard, but I am not a good programmer :P 17:20:05 <andythenorth> Alberth: you like python? 17:20:14 <Alberth> yes 17:20:20 <andythenorth> join me :P 17:20:24 <andythenorth> it's fun 17:20:36 <Alberth> I would like to, but I already have 2.5 projects 17:20:54 <andythenorth> that's 1 less than me :) 17:21:25 <Rubidium> that's not much 17:21:28 <Alberth> so technically I can, but spreading my time over many projects is not very productive 17:21:52 <Alberth> Rubidium: it is if you actually want to make some progress 17:21:57 <andythenorth> he 17:22:03 <Rubidium> oh... 17:22:04 <Alberth> I'd be happy to review code if you like 17:22:14 <Rubidium> but the progress in osie and catcodec is great 17:22:46 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth 17:22:55 <Alberth> you are speaking in riddles; could you elaborate please? 17:23:11 <andythenorth> Rubidium is the cheshire cat toda 17:23:12 <andythenorth> y 17:23:17 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5bc0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:39 <Rubidium> you don't know osie? She's lovely... feed her a recent OpenTTD screenshot and she'll tell you the used NewGRFs 17:23:55 <Rubidium> catcodec is the tool to build opensfx 17:24:22 <Alberth> ah, that's you those magic statistics of yesterday were produced :p 17:24:38 <Rubidium> nope 17:24:52 * Alberth was thinking about catcodes of TeX instead 17:25:26 <Alberth> hmm, does osie eat heightmaps? 17:26:07 <andythenorth> is osie on the interwebs? 17:26:09 <Rubidium> if it's png it does 17:26:17 <Rubidium> andythenorth: ofcourse 17:26:20 <Rubidium> download-osie 17:26:24 <Alberth> nice :) 17:26:40 <Rubidium> but if OpenTTD didn't embed the information into the png it won't find any 17:28:49 <Alberth> I did not explicitly enable nor disable it, it uses the standard png writer code in src/heightmap.cpp 17:30:11 <Rubidium> it's not in trunk yet? 17:30:36 <Rubidium> anyhow, MakePNGImage in screenshot.cpp adds the metadata 17:30:38 <Alberth> it is 17:31:39 <Rubidium> ah, the writing code isn't in heightmap.cpp 17:32:03 <Rubidium> so yes, it'll probably already be in the heightmaps 17:34:12 <Alberth> ? oh, it's screenshot.cpp of course, stupid me 17:35:22 <Rubidium> and osie's also in svn: ^/extra/osie 17:36:20 *** Markavian [~Markavian@90.86-67-202.dynamic.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:41:11 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 17:43:01 <Rubidium> but I agree with Alberth that most of my projects are "dead" 17:45:19 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: translators * r22539 /trunk/src/lang/portuguese.txt: 17:45:19 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:19 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: portuguese - 2 changes by JayCity 17:57:05 *** sliddy [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:57:11 *** fjb|mobile [~fjb@89.204.137.97] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:33 *** fjb|mobile [~fjb@p5DDFE1AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:06:27 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d822d5f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:07:24 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 18:08:04 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d822d5f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:13:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:33:24 *** ashledombos [~ashledomb@ris91-2-82-227-26-30.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 18:37:17 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-7-136.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 18:37:56 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:41:14 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 18:43:16 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-106-189.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:49:57 <Terkhen> hmm... 1.1.1 is not in the "Minimum OpenTTD Version" menu on bananas 18:50:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 18:55:20 <Eddi|zuHause> someone forgot a step in the release process? 18:55:38 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5bc0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:56:24 <Terkhen> I don't know how is this usually updated 18:56:36 <Terkhen> TrueBrain, Rubidium ^ 19:00:57 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@host109-160-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:00:57 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest3405 19:00:57 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 19:06:16 *** Guest3405 [~wolf01@host201-173-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:09:17 <Rubidium> Terkhen: by hand :( and with a restart of the webserver :( 19:09:28 <Terkhen> oh :( 19:09:56 <V453000> how is it possible that I have Total bridges 1.11 in my data folder, I can easily create games with it, but when I am trying to join a server, it says that TBRS1.11 matching file not found 19:10:54 <Rubidium> different grfid / md5 checksum 19:11:51 <Rubidium> there are at least 3 different grfs with version 1.11 19:11:58 <V453000> oh :D 19:12:33 <Rubidium> likewise that there are 6 newstations 0.42 19:12:52 <V453000> hmf 19:13:01 <V453000> both md5 and grfid are the same 19:13:03 <Rubidium> and 6 ttrs 3.02 19:13:05 <V453000> letter by letter 19:14:01 <V453000> oh wait 19:14:22 <V453000> of course I am talking nonsense ... 19:14:26 <V453000> they are different :) 19:14:29 <Rubidium> Terkhen: better now? 19:15:44 <Terkhen> Rubidium: no, it is still not there 19:15:46 <V453000> hm, ok, so I certainly have the wrong one ... how do I obtain the correct one though please? 19:16:20 <Rubidium> V453000: if it ain't on bananas... try grfcrawler, forum, google, ... 19:16:48 <V453000> google is silent and I already downloaded it from forums :p 19:17:27 <V453000> and crawler just links to forum :| 19:20:55 *** Chris_Booth_ [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:27:44 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:30:26 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE1AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:42 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE1AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:48:34 <andythenorth> Ammler: you mentioned a VM environment for testing (maybe new) bananas? 19:48:52 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:49:03 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:09:08 <Terkhen> now 1.1.1 is there, thank you Rubidium :) 20:09:16 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:10:30 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@host146-235-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:10:30 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest3415 20:10:30 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 20:11:39 <__ln__> is it possible to think of a commercial software product being sold in germany/france/spain without having the piece of software localized into german/french/spanish? typical end-users being non-technical persons 20:11:43 <ChoHag> What the likely reason vehicles aren't being serviced when their %-age drops below the set level? 20:13:02 <ChoHag> I have trains travelling most of the way across an enormous map and they arrive at their destination with 0% reliability. 20:13:17 <ChoHag> Even though their service interval is set at 65%. 20:14:27 <Rubidium> isn't it that vehicles are serviced when their reliability is the set amount less than the maximum reliability? 20:14:57 <ChoHag> I don't know. 20:15:26 <ChoHag> Seems logical to me it would be 'service ASAP after reliability drops below $value percent'. 20:15:50 <Terkhen> __ln__: there is no market for that in spain, I guess... although you might be able to change the language to english if it is included 20:15:56 *** Guest3415 [~wolf01@host109-160-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:16:02 <ChoHag> Whether that's %-age of max, or of 100 (ie. per-'cent'), I don't know. 20:16:28 <Rubidium> even so, there are many other reasons why vehicles don't service 20:17:10 <Rubidium> e.g. breakdowns disabled and setting "disable servicing when breakdowns are disabled" 20:17:19 <ChoHag> Well it isn't that. 20:17:25 <ChoHag> Damn things are breaking down near constantly. 20:17:47 <Rubidium> or depots being too far from the main line 20:17:48 <Rubidium> or ... 20:17:58 <Rubidium> so... provide a savegame 20:18:23 <__ln__> Terkhen: yes, my implicit assumption in the question was that the language is english rather than the local language. 20:19:26 <ChoHag> They happily go straight past depots and ignore them. 20:20:53 <andythenorth> put a pbs signal in the tile before the depot 20:21:09 <andythenorth> they're probably not finding a path 20:21:42 <ChoHag> There is, and the depots are _right_ _on_ the line. 20:23:52 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:24:10 <ChoHag> Savegame will be complicated. 20:24:39 <ChoHag> I've ported my shipboost patch over to yacd 2.3 and haven't released it anywhere, so I'm running my own binary. 20:31:00 <andythenorth> is bananas translated in any form? 20:34:02 <Terkhen> I don't think so 20:34:58 <Terkhen> I guess that you could move the strings to files with format similar to OpenTTD in case that in the future WT allows to translate other applications 20:35:30 <Terkhen> but that seems like looking too far ahead to me 20:35:50 <andythenorth> probably 20:42:05 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 20:50:53 *** sliddy [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 20:51:02 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:54:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:06:16 <Eddi|zuHause> the whole website was once prepared to be translated, but that was never implemented 21:15:19 <glx> well translations are implemented, just not yet included in WT :) 21:17:14 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: terkhen * r22540 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Rename AcceptancePickup to GoodsEntryStatus. 21:19:05 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: terkhen * r22541 /trunk/src/station_base.h: -Document: GoodsEntry struct. 21:21:02 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: terkhen * r22542 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp station_base.h station_cmd.cpp): -Add: Store cargo acceptance stats for stations. 21:24:24 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: terkhen * r22543 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp: -Feature: [NewGRF] Support for station variable 0x69. 21:29:43 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:47:40 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 21:53:50 <Eddi|zuHause> alledgedly, some unreleased version of newhouses did check "acceptance of nearby station" 21:55:34 * Zuu wonders what station variable 0x69 does. 21:56:12 <Terkhen> it is an exercise for learning how to code variables :P 21:57:47 <ccfreak2k> Zuu, it's the hottest variable. 21:57:55 <Zuu> "Information about cargo accepted in the past" ? 21:58:25 <Zuu> At least there is a variable 69 in the spec with that description. 21:59:35 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 21:59:46 <Terkhen> Zuu: yes, is that one 22:01:44 *** Amis [~Amis@5400C349.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:37 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DE69.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:41 <Zuu> Hmm, I'm thinking about the usefulness of exposing the GoodsEntryStatus to AIs. 22:07:20 <Zuu> (and players to be fair in the AI <-> player battle) 22:07:47 <Zuu> Though, players already got some features that AIs don't have. 22:09:26 <Terkhen> this info is not visible for players either 22:10:45 <Zuu> I realized that, so if AIs get it, it would have to be exposed to players too in order to be fair. 22:11:05 <Terkhen> it could be an effort in two parts: enhanced station GUI and more station stats available to AIs 22:14:00 <Zuu> Yes, though with some more though, with stats like this players will have hard to find time to mak use of it while AIs might even save some processing as they can reduce the statistics collection part. 22:14:11 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73D3C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:14:12 <Zuu> make* 22:15:51 <Terkhen> the stats currently stored are not very informative, so you would need to extend that too 22:21:00 <bodis> how do you make out of town airport accept passengers? 22:21:33 <Zuu> bodis: Do you want to figure out if the airport accept passengers? 22:22:00 <bodis> well I have built an airport outside city, so outside any coverage area 22:22:19 <bodis> is it possible for it to accept passengers without using transfer? 22:22:29 <Zuu> Select to build a new airport of the same type. Hover with the mouse over the existing airport to see what it covers. Also in the build airport window you'll see which cargos that the airport (will) accept. 22:22:45 <Zuu> Oh, 22:23:07 <bodis> yeah I am trying to make sort of a central airport 22:23:08 <Zuu> You can transfer in one direction. 22:23:15 <Zuu> Not dual 22:23:22 <bodis> but then it will not work both directions 22:23:40 <Zuu> Unless you use an OpenTTD build with cargo destinations. 22:23:51 <bodis> damn this is not gonna quite work 22:24:15 <Zuu> For dual transfers you need two airports, one in each direction. 22:24:22 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.68.243] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 22:24:32 <Terkhen> you need an arrivals terminal and a departures terminal :) 22:24:44 <bodis> hmm thats interesting :) 22:24:51 <bodis> when you put it like that 22:24:52 <Terkhen> it is quite complicated to set up 22:24:56 <Zuu> If you also have multiple relations (pairs of towns) you really need two airports per relation - one for each direction - to not mix up passengers. 22:25:06 <Terkhen> ^ 22:25:09 <Zuu> Which is why you want a destination model. 22:25:19 <bodis> yep 22:25:23 <Terkhen> with yacd you can just set up a single airport and forget about it 22:25:33 <bodis> whats yacd? 22:25:37 <Zuu> Yea, go and download YACD and have fun :-) 22:25:39 <Terkhen> a patch for cargo destinations 22:25:52 <Terkhen> I wouldn't recommend it until you know how to play default, though 22:26:00 <bodis> ok :) 22:26:00 <Terkhen> it is quite difficult to make money at first :) 22:26:04 <Zuu> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=54253 <-- YACD 22:26:20 <bodis> ty I will try it conventional first :) 22:26:34 <Terkhen> ok :) 22:27:11 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC24DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 22:29:36 <Zuu> Though Terkhen is right, with yacd it is far more difficult to make money. It is also an ongoing development and is thus a more of a moving target. 22:31:21 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc16-lewi15-2-0-cust395.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Juo] 22:32:40 <bodis> If I set up departures and arrivals airport then after dropping off passengers plane would have to fly from arrivals to departures right? 22:32:50 <bodis> empty that is 22:32:53 <Zuu> Yes 22:33:00 <bodis> k 22:33:24 <Zuu> There is a wiki article on how to set up two-directional transfer systems. 22:33:53 <Zuu> http://wiki.openttd.org/Two-way_feeder_service 22:35:40 <Terkhen> good night 22:35:52 <Zuu> night Terkhen 22:48:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7621C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:49:36 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:53 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: TTW - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 23:03:43 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 23:05:28 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:09:34 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-005-151.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 23:09:44 *** Chris_Booth_ [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:09:45 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:15 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-104-43.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:14:22 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 23:15:18 *** shawn [~shawn@c-71-60-35-38.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:15:38 *** shawn [~shawn@c-71-60-35-38.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: changing servers] 23:20:04 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe64de00-55.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 23:27:17 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5bc0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:06 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 23:30:41 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:41 <Wolf01> 'night 23:31:45 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host146-235-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:39:09 *** sliddy [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:50:57 *** ashledombos [~ashledomb@ris91-2-82-227-26-30.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]