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00:01:00 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the other fix would be changing the grf-id of dutch catenary :p 00:02:42 <planetmaker> hm... I should sleep while pondering this problem. Good night :-) 00:03:33 <Ammler> better static grf support would rock in any case 00:04:23 <Ammler> static grfs are forgotten since the newgrf gui 00:05:27 <Ammler> it would also be coold for grfs which depend on basesets, like swedish rails 00:05:59 <Ammler> well, you would need to split the grf but might be worth 00:07:13 <Ammler> good night 00:09:45 *** Lakie [~Lakie@82.152.164.38] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 00:13:54 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC33E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 00:27:03 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:33:30 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFC5C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:36:02 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 00:55:53 *** m [~m@ppp-93-104-30-141.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:58:28 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFD09A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:59:27 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:04:13 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:788e:23f2:d2b6:174c] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:17:24 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 01:22:26 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:25:39 *** Mks [~mks@c83-176-234-98.cust.tele2.se] has quit [] 01:40:12 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:40:14 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08:30 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:43:55 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:52:36 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-52-53.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:48:14 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 04:48:50 *** Mazur is now known as Guest5167 04:54:59 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B757A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:07:49 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 05:19:09 *** Qantourisc [~Qantouris@78-20-80-107.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:20:47 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:33:20 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-ffa0c300-106.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 05:43:49 *** Qantourisc [~Qantouris@78-20-80-107.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 05:59:08 *** JVassie [569e818b@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 05:59:20 <JVassie> mornin 06:04:33 *** JVassie [569e818b@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 06:04:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:05:27 <andythenorth> bonjorno 06:25:52 <planetmaker> moin 06:48:05 *** lugo [lugo@89.238.177.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:48:25 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:50:39 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 06:59:55 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:00:35 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 07:09:00 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:09:24 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 07:12:34 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 07:20:39 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-029-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:21:04 <Terkhen> good morning 07:24:15 *** Amis [~Amis@5400C20B.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 07:26:43 <planetmaker> hallo Terkhen 07:37:06 <andythenorth> hi Terkhen 07:45:17 <George> Hi. ECS users ask me about FS#4366 - what are possibilities for it to be solved? 07:47:09 <andythenorth> something like that was discussed before 07:47:13 <andythenorth> but no patch 07:47:39 <planetmaker> it would need a gui similar to NewObjects 07:47:49 <planetmaker> or at least that's an option 07:48:09 <planetmaker> but... IMHO then we need preview sprites for all default industries as well 07:51:40 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:51:43 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:55:36 <planetmaker> but maybe there are other options. I don't know 08:00:54 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:01:15 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:01:38 * Alberth would like preview sprites for industries, it'd make the 'fund industry' so much better 08:01:40 <George> I do not mean that solution should be done like I wrote. I mean we need some solution for a handy build of objects, whou have landscape restrictins. Flat land is a restriction too. Currently we have some bad industry placement on mountains maps 08:01:44 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0f84fe.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:10:07 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B72A56.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:16:52 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:10 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:22:13 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:25:44 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:33:40 <andythenorth> George: frosch or eddi proposed a cb for terraforming 08:33:55 <andythenorth> it would need to return relative heights and slopes for each tile for each layout 08:34:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember doing anything like this 08:34:26 <andythenorth> must have been someone else then :) 08:34:40 <George> Relative? Absolute would be much easier 08:35:03 <andythenorth> ?? 08:35:09 <andythenorth> I think we must confuse terms :) 08:35:17 <George> or relative means not relative to current landscape, but relative to flat land? 08:35:19 <andythenorth> you don't intend to specify 'only build this tile at height 1' 08:35:44 <andythenorth> relative to N tile of industry would be most obvious I guess 08:35:55 <George> no, I mean do I need a huge callback to analise current landscape or not 08:36:08 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:36:19 <andythenorth> no 08:36:34 <andythenorth> you just tell the heights / slopes you need for each tile 08:36:38 <andythenorth> game tries to provide those 08:36:42 <George> then relative is fine (relative to flat land) 08:36:52 <andythenorth> if it can't create layout, then building fails 08:36:58 <George> ok 08:37:05 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i have a suggestion for "simplified" firs economy: remove aluminium, textiles, milk, scrap metal and building materials [replace with goods], make each farm only produce one cargo [grain, sugar, livestock] 08:37:20 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: put it in the thread or ticket? 08:37:23 <George> It should allow both + and - according to flat land 08:37:25 <andythenorth> sounds fine - I'm about to go out though 08:38:12 <George> andythenorth: And when he plans to provide such CB? 08:38:23 <andythenorth> I don't know that he does :P 08:38:28 <andythenorth> it was a suggestion only 08:38:41 <George> any topic on the forums? 08:38:47 <andythenorth> no you could start one 08:38:56 <andythenorth> it's needed especially for things like quarries 08:39:02 <George> Yes 08:39:38 <George> - for mines and + for tourist centres :) 08:39:39 *** Mks [~mks@c83-176-234-98.cust.tele2.se] has joined #openttd 08:39:56 <andythenorth> wrt industry previews - I think they're unrelated to this issue 08:40:06 <andythenorth> they don't add anything imo 08:40:25 <andythenorth> but that's not what you're ticket was about anyway George ? 08:41:14 <George> my FS was about the possibility for map generator to place tourists industry. Nothing else :) 08:42:50 <andythenorth> could probably get the result into a byte 08:43:04 <andythenorth> one nibble with 0-F for relative height to N tile 08:43:13 <andythenorth> 8 is 'same as N tile' 08:43:31 <andythenorth> one nibble is stuffed with slope data - not sure if it fits though 08:43:49 <andythenorth> slopes might not fit 08:43:59 <andythenorth> meh 08:44:04 <andythenorth> I am no good at that kind of stuff 08:44:13 * andythenorth -> takes the baby out to the museum 08:44:17 <andythenorth> bbl 08:44:22 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:52:58 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:54:31 <Alberth> George: if you work relative to the highest or lowest point, you only need + 08:56:12 <George> Alberth: I know, but how would a mine look like? It would be some rised land on a plato with a pit in the middle 08:56:18 <George> does not look well 08:56:27 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 08:56:35 <George> mine should look like a pit on the plato 08:57:56 <George> anyway, I doub any industry would use value above +8 or below -8, so a signed int result should be fine 08:58:54 <Rubidium> but till what extent must the land be exactly like the heightmap? 08:59:35 <Rubidium> e.g. you say it must be completely flat, like an airport, so it must be completely leveled... however, an airport can be built on slightly not-so-leveled terrain 08:59:42 <Eddi|zuHause> "min" and "max" values? 08:59:48 <Rubidium> it'll just use foundations 09:00:24 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: then you'd have say 0, -1 for each of the airport tiles for this to work 09:01:00 <Rubidium> but... what if 90% is at -1, then the few remaining are "above" the place where the heightmap would be 09:02:17 <Rubidium> unless you say it must be at X when foundations are laid, but that may wreak havoc when the industry draws without foundations 09:03:31 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 09:04:02 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, there must be separate ways to decide "raw" map shape or "with foundation" map shape 09:04:49 <Eddi|zuHause> neuschwanstein would check the "raw" shape, and an airport would check the "with foundation" map shape 09:04:54 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.68] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 09:06:20 <Rubidium> and then there's the question from which point to calculate the heights 09:06:43 <Rubidium> one would say 0,0 of the industry, but if I'm not mistaken that might be empty 09:07:52 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, north corner should be the right origin. each position could get also a "don't care" value 09:08:20 <Rubidium> but what if 0,0 is such a don't care value? 09:08:50 <Rubidium> should a nearby hill, where you don't build on, influence the height to build the industry? 09:09:18 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a problem for the newgrf author to solve? 09:09:26 <Rubidium> e.g. the shape could be right, but due to that nearby hill it's 1 tile too low, and so you can't build it 09:25:39 <Eddi|zuHause> err... something's not right with the spreadsheet 09:26:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd call it a "desync" 09:29:03 <planetmaker> hm? 09:29:48 <planetmaker> in what way, Eddi|zuHause ? 09:30:40 <Eddi|zuHause> my sheet says "saved 12 hours ago/saving", and when i open it in another browser, it looks totally different (someone re-sorted it in the mean time) 09:30:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and the additions i made are now at the wrong places 09:31:46 <planetmaker> that sounds nasty 09:33:22 *** lugo [lugo@89.238.177.145] has joined #openttd 09:34:05 <planetmaker> are you sure we need both epochs, 3 and 4? 09:39:37 <Eddi|zuHause> that's more of a "common standard" 09:39:47 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 09:40:41 <Eddi|zuHause> if you tell anyone involved with railways you're talking about epoche 4, he'll know exactly what you're talking about 09:41:11 <planetmaker> interesting. Never heart that before ;-) 09:41:15 <Eddi|zuHause> "epoche 0" is a bit of a stretch, though ;) 09:41:26 * Rubidium doesn't have a clue either 09:41:58 <Eddi|zuHause> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epoche_(Modelleisenbahn) 09:47:17 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5E70.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:47:59 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D5BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:57:00 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that is as official as it gets: http://www.morop.org/de/normes/nem800_d.pdf http://www.morop.org/de/normes/nem806d_d.pdf 09:57:51 <planetmaker> :-) 09:59:11 <Eddi|zuHause> most notable difference between epoche 3 and epoche 4 is the engine numbers (BR 110 instead of BR E10, etc.) 10:00:54 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 10:03:18 <JVassie> hi guys 10:03:26 <JVassie> new sheet? 10:04:29 <JVassie> planetmaker: Eddi|zuHause 10:05:03 <Eddi|zuHause> JVassie: why? 10:05:13 <JVassie> there is a new sheet 10:05:15 <JVassie> someones working on 10:05:19 <JVassie> wondering what its for? 10:05:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what you're talking about 10:08:00 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, there 10:09:29 <Eddi|zuHause> timeline is especially useful for the "core" set 10:19:51 <planetmaker> that's what I'd like to add there only 10:20:32 <JVassie> planetmaker: whats the plan for it matE? 10:20:40 <JVassie> oh 10:20:47 <JVassie> is that to charter what weve got in the set so far? 10:21:05 <JVassie> oh i see 10:21:11 <JVassie> picking the core set to cover the spans 10:26:58 <JVassie> planetmaker: V200 is express pax too, no? 10:27:19 <Eddi|zuHause> JVassie: different V200 10:27:37 <JVassie> full name of this V200 so i can check up on it pls? 10:27:47 <JVassie> BR220? 10:27:51 <Eddi|zuHause> V200 (west) == express passengers, V200 (east) = cargo 10:28:09 <JVassie> do they look the same? 10:28:12 <Eddi|zuHause> no 10:28:18 <Eddi|zuHause> completely different 10:28:24 <JVassie> kk ill look 10:28:27 <Eddi|zuHause> V200 (east) is a russian model 10:28:33 <Eddi|zuHause> M62(?) 10:28:40 <Eddi|zuHause> one of those 10:29:02 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 10:29:22 <JVassie> http://www.flickr.com/photos/sunhiller/5616428890/ 10:29:26 <JVassie> see what you mean 10:29:28 <Eddi|zuHause> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DR-Baureihe_V_200 10:29:53 <JVassie> Baureihe just means class right? 10:30:11 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 10:30:18 <JVassie> :) 10:30:59 <Eddi|zuHause> V means Verbrennungsmotor (combustion engine) 10:31:05 <Eddi|zuHause> and 200 means 2000PS 10:31:14 <JVassie> ah ok 10:31:32 <Eddi|zuHause> (2000hp) 10:31:49 <JVassie> an express loco for the 50s would be good planetmaker; E10 perhaps? 10:31:55 <JVassie> its quite a famous loco 10:32:03 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, quite definitely 10:32:10 <Eddi|zuHause> list of engines is by no means complete yet 10:32:17 <planetmaker> I didn't make any choice, but relied on eddi's markings ;-) 10:32:31 <planetmaker> and that was clear to me, yes :-) 10:32:35 <JVassie> ah ok 10:32:41 <JVassie> picking the ones marked core already 10:32:43 <JVassie> no drama :) 10:32:58 <Eddi|zuHause> but i gtg now 10:33:02 <JVassie> no worries 10:33:12 <planetmaker> well, as said: I've not much clue about the different engines 10:33:30 <planetmaker> I might when I see an image recognize some. I just did copy&paste... 10:33:39 <JVassie> some Swiss/Austrian stuff would look good too 10:33:44 <JVassie> no worries planetmaker ;) 10:33:54 <planetmaker> feel free to make a choice on some additional core engines 10:34:06 <planetmaker> (IMHO). Dunno what Eddi|zuHause thinks ;-) 10:34:15 <Eddi|zuHause> feel also free to add swiss/austrian engines ;) 10:34:19 <JVassie> especially like the ETR470 10:34:24 <JVassie> that goes to stuttgart i know for sure 10:34:30 <JVassie> (or used to when i was on it last) 10:34:49 <Eddi|zuHause> also we should include czech and polish engines 10:35:09 <JVassie> should we limit it to cross border stuff or? 10:35:17 <Eddi|zuHause> no 10:35:21 <JVassie> perhaps cross border for limited core stuff 10:35:28 <JVassie> but include much more in the extended set 10:35:44 <JVassie> we need a definition for core I think 10:35:48 <JVassie> unless we have one already 10:36:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd imagine a choice list like: "Epoche 1: none/prussia/saxony/bavaria/austria/all" 10:36:09 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: has one ;-) 10:36:33 <JVassie> Eddi needs adding to the team on devzone 10:36:38 <planetmaker> indeed 10:36:43 <Eddi|zuHause> JVassie: don't worry about "core" for now, just add engines ;) 10:36:49 <JVassie> :D 10:36:52 <JVassie> yessir! 10:37:10 <JVassie> need to fidn out about these new SBB double deck IC/IR sets 10:37:12 <JVassie> *find 10:37:58 <planetmaker> added you on the devzone, too, Eddi|zuHause 10:38:11 <Eddi|zuHause> a choice like this for each of the epochs 10:38:31 <JVassie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stock_used_by_Swiss_Federal_Railways 10:38:45 <Eddi|zuHause> like "Epoche 3: none/west germany/east germany/austria/poland/all" 10:39:02 <JVassie> is that the core definition? 10:39:05 <JVassie> sounds good 10:39:09 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 10:39:33 <Eddi|zuHause> for each of these settings, there should be enough engines in the "core" set to be useful 10:39:59 <JVassie> aye reckon so 10:40:00 <JVassie> ooh 10:40:01 <JVassie> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/bombardier-wins-sbb-double-deck-train-order.html 10:40:03 <JVassie> very jazzy :D 10:40:16 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you concentrate on "austria", ignore all engines that have "company" set to "DB" or "DR" 10:40:32 <Eddi|zuHause> only take those set to "ÃBB" 10:41:16 <JVassie> uh huh 10:41:19 <Eddi|zuHause> or "BBÃ" before it was restructured 10:41:31 <JVassie> http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/news/single-view/view/db-orders-double-deck-trains-for-long-distance-services.html 10:41:38 <JVassie> DB getting them too 10:41:51 <Eddi|zuHause> so things like the E94, which are used in both regions, set to "DRG,BBÃ" 10:42:16 <JVassie> gotcha 10:42:33 <JVassie> need to investigate the Taurus's 10:42:40 <JVassie> how are we gonna handle regional differences etc 10:42:46 <JVassie> theres been multiple versions 10:43:31 <Eddi|zuHause> minor differences => ignore 10:51:39 *** macee [~macee@BC24C67B.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 10:55:20 *** macee [~macee@BC24C67B.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has left #openttd [] 11:05:39 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4ead.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:13:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.174.42] has joined #openttd 11:14:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:18:59 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-52-53.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 11:19:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.180.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:25:22 *** Pixa [~Pixa@85.210.67.111] has joined #openttd 11:27:27 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:32:32 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 11:33:48 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:41:39 *** Guest5167 [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:55 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:53:09 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-ffa0c300-106.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 11:53:28 *** Mazur is now known as Guest5189 11:55:03 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 11:55:09 *** execat [~atm@triband-mum-59.182.96.204.mtnl.net.in] has joined #openttd 11:57:52 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-ffa0c300-106.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:00:07 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:6573:160b:2b8a:7c06] has joined #openttd 12:00:10 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:00:40 *** m [~m@ppp-93-104-7-176.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #openttd 12:03:43 * andythenorth ponders reworking FIRS cargos 12:03:46 <andythenorth> how about Rice? 12:04:30 <execat> How do you enable selling and buying shares? 12:04:40 <execat> In my multiplayer game, that option is grayed out. 12:06:22 *** amkoroew [~matze@p5B107756.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:07:10 <Alberth> iirc that is a setting in the advanced options 12:07:25 <Alberth> server-side :) 12:07:28 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 12:07:42 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-240-50.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 12:08:49 <execat> Alberth: Is it? Lemme check. 12:09:35 <execat> Alberth: Indeed. Thanks :) 12:11:13 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22602 /branches/1.1/src/settings.cpp: [1.1] -Fix: MSVC compile warning 12:12:05 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [] 12:14:57 *** execat [~atm@triband-mum-59.182.96.204.mtnl.net.in] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16:12 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 12:19:40 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause, planetmaker: Did you consider different track types akin to http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/attachment.php?aid=2344 yet? 12:21:44 <planetmaker> michi_cc: not directly 12:22:01 <planetmaker> The set must be usable IMHO with many track newgrfs 12:22:22 <planetmaker> trains can be adjusted to make use of them appropriately though, if present 12:24:44 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-188-098-094-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:25:51 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29:25 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-188-098-094-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 12:30:11 <michi_cc> There isn't really anything besides NuTracks though right now that introduces a lot of different track types. And those mostly aren't really different, just another work-around for speed limits. (Not counting MetroTracks and Pikka's tracks here, as they are quite specialized) 12:31:13 <planetmaker> agreed. 12:31:23 <planetmaker> Throwing together such track set would be moderately easy 12:31:46 <planetmaker> Graphics around are abundant, from default tracks, NuTracks and SwedishRails. 12:32:02 <planetmaker> 50% would be c&p from swedishrails 12:32:15 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 12:33:36 <andythenorth> there's little mileage in drawing new rail sprites now 12:33:40 <andythenorth> mostly done 12:36:52 <planetmaker> such set would make sense when this CETS kinda picks up somewhat ;-) 12:36:58 <planetmaker> with different axle weights 12:37:48 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host109-162-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 12:37:55 <michi_cc> Organizing a track set along axle weight (as mb seems to be planning) makes more sense than a plain speed categorization IMHO, as it gives better opportunity to include similar, yet equally interesting locos in a set. 12:38:03 <Wolf01> miau 12:39:07 <andythenorth> can tracks be used to create priority? 12:39:19 <Alberth> I know about a wolf in sheeps-cloths, but a cat? 12:39:29 <andythenorth> e.g. low axle load to keep freight trains off two tracks of a four-track route? 12:39:30 <planetmaker> michi_cc: but then the question is: why not always buy / build the better tracks and run everything there? 12:39:59 * andythenorth hasn't found that much use yet for extra-clever track stuff :| 12:40:12 <andythenorth> electric overhead / 3rd rail makes sense 12:40:31 <andythenorth> and narrow gauge / standard gauge / mixed is an under-developed idea 12:41:06 <michi_cc> Make them expensive enough so that players who do care have a reason. And players who like to haul coal with maglevs won't care anyway, so those can be ignored. 12:42:53 <planetmaker> price factor difference of 4 between track types or so... hm 12:43:44 <planetmaker> still, as money is little reason to do or not do something in most games after 10 years (except with yacd ;-) ) 12:45:48 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:48:03 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 12:48:38 <andythenorth> there could be eye candy reasons for track sets, but they would be too much trouble to use 12:48:57 <andythenorth> like fenced, unfenced, concrete track, snow sheds etc 12:49:47 <planetmaker> that's the reason for SER... but of course you can only have one type of fence there. But every you want ;_) 12:53:06 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:53:44 <George> can someone help with strings with cases? Have a look here please http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=30188&start=1560 12:54:41 <Yexo> George: the thorn should be before the start of the string, so before the first 9A 12:54:53 <Yexo> and there should only be one of them per string 12:55:28 <George> could you fix that string to show how should it look like? 12:55:52 <Yexo> 1 * 1 04 0A A4 01 5F DC "Ã" 9A 14 9A 10 01 "bútorgyárat" 9A 11 "Bútorgyár" 9A 12 00 <- something like that 12:56:06 <Yexo> only 9A is not valid in a unicode string, so you'd have to escape that too 12:57:15 <Yexo> 1 * 1 04 0A A4 01 5F DC "Ã" \UE09A 14 \UE09A 10 01 "bútorgyárat" \UE09A 11 "Bútorgyár" \UE09A 12 00 <- I think like this 12:57:53 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 12:58:15 <Yexo> not sure if you do support ttdpatch, but if you do you'll want to include this string only for openttd, for ttdpach only include the default case 12:58:24 <Yexo> ie the "Bútorgyár" part 13:00:42 <George> //!!Invalid escape sequence. 13:00:42 <George> // 0 * 0 04 0A A4 01 5F DC "Ã" \UE09A 14 \UE09A 10 01 "bútorgyárat" \UE09A 11 "Bútorgyár" \UE09A 12 00 13:00:57 <George> (NFO renum report) 13:02:15 <andythenorth> http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/GregMcClanahan/20091202/3709/Achievement_Design_101.php 13:02:18 <planetmaker> yes, the number of " is too large 13:02:52 <planetmaker> the special chars need to be inside the string 13:02:54 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:03:03 <Rubidium> George: might it be that \U.... should be within a string? 13:03:24 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 13:03:41 <planetmaker> "Ã\UE09A "14 "\UE09A "10 01 "bútorgyárat \UE09A "11 "Bútorgyár \UE09A "12 13:03:47 <planetmaker> not sure about the other bytes 13:03:50 <Yexo> 10 * 50 04 0A A4 01 5F DC "Ã\UE09A" 14 "\UE09A" 10 01 "bútorgyárat" "\UE09A" 11 "Bútorgyár" "\UE09A" 12 00 <- that works 13:03:55 <Yexo> at least for nforenum 13:04:13 <George> 1 * 50 04 0A A4 01 5F DC "Ã\UE09A\UE09Abútorgyárat\UE09ABútorgyár\UE09A" 00 13:04:27 <Yexo> that is the same :) 13:04:31 <Yexo> just written differently 13:09:03 <George> Thank you for help :) 13:09:12 <George> Looks like it works 13:14:47 *** amkoroew [~matze@p5B107756.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:21:01 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@80.187.217.167] has joined #openttd 13:24:26 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 13:57:29 <Eddi|zuHause> <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause, planetmaker: Did you consider different track types akin to http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/attachment.php?aid=2344 yet? <-- i wanted to add that column yesterday, but forgot. 13:57:39 <planetmaker> :-) 14:02:47 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@80.187.217.167] has joined #openttd 14:05:12 <Eddi|zuHause> you know what's weird? yesterday the spreadsheet thing was in german, today it's in english... 14:05:41 <planetmaker> different locale of your browser / os? 14:06:14 <valhalla1w> based on my IP google has been bothering to switch to google.{nl,de,fr} the last week -_- 14:06:17 <Eddi|zuHause> nope, nothing changes 14:06:38 <planetmaker> btw, Eddi|zuHause re E10: there are two optically different versions, the "Kasten" and the "BÃŒgelfalte" 14:07:03 <planetmaker> but technically they seem to be the same... one engine with longer build period (and possibly varying look), or two? 14:07:12 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: same model, just different graphics 14:07:22 <planetmaker> good, then we agree 14:08:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm unsure about BR 01, BR 01.10 and BR 01.5 though 14:10:02 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@80.187.217.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:11:43 <planetmaker> rather not. Though we might not want to include all - and then it could be a visual change only 14:13:53 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:16:42 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 14:24:45 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-ffa0c300-106.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:26:33 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: Radsatzfahrmasse: 17,0 t <-- that's the weight important for track type? 14:26:44 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 14:27:39 <Eddi|zuHause> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streckenklasse <-- potential track types A/B/C/D 14:28:33 <planetmaker> hm, yes 14:29:53 <Eddi|zuHause> there could separately be versions for low and high speed 14:30:00 <Eddi|zuHause> but not overdo it 14:32:52 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 14:33:26 <Eddi|zuHause> A (early, ca. 60km/h), B (normal, electric, ca. 100km/h), C (normal, electric, ca. 140km/h), C' (normal, electric, ca. 200km/h), D (normal, electric, ca. 140 km/h), D' (electric, 350km/h) <-- about 10 track types 14:33:33 <planetmaker> speed limits on tracks are... a bit boring 14:33:47 *** amkoroew [~matze@p5B104BAA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:33:52 <planetmaker> engines already limit that 14:34:08 <Eddi|zuHause> could do C' and D' without limit 14:34:19 <Eddi|zuHause> but very expensive 14:35:29 <Eddi|zuHause> limiting freight wagons to certain axle weights may be troublesome 14:35:47 <Eddi|zuHause> but that's the actually interesting part differing between C and D 14:37:33 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly add B and C with 3rd rail 14:39:03 <Eddi|zuHause> while at it: what happened to the two-railtypes-on-one-tile patch? 14:39:24 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@80.187.217.167] has joined #openttd 14:39:33 <planetmaker> did it exist? 14:39:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen a screenshot ;) 14:40:02 <Eddi|zuHause> was that from michi_cc? 14:43:48 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-188-098-094-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:46:46 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@80.187.217.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:46:49 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@80.187.217.167] has joined #openttd 14:48:45 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@80.187.217.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:52:33 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-ffa0c300-106.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:53:09 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@80.187.217.167] has joined #openttd 15:00:37 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@80.187.217.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:01:34 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-188-098-094-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:05:43 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, price factor for railtypes: A: x1, B: x3, Be: x5, C: x9, Ce: x16, C': x32, C'e: x60, D: x32, De: x48, D'e: x196? 15:06:26 <Eddi|zuHause> electrification gets progressively more expensive 15:07:40 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 15:09:51 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: that's IMHO too many track types 15:09:55 <planetmaker> 4 are enough 15:10:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. we had this discussion already 15:10:14 <planetmaker> as one will also need electrification 15:10:27 <planetmaker> though... not for all. Some will always have it 15:10:33 <planetmaker> like D 15:10:39 <Eddi|zuHause> could be also a "core" and "extended" set 15:10:49 <planetmaker> :-D 15:11:06 <planetmaker> or was your Be as B electified? 15:11:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Be is electrified, yes 15:11:24 <planetmaker> and what's C' ? 15:11:35 <Eddi|zuHause> C with higher (or no) speed limit 15:13:15 <Eddi|zuHause> the track types in MB's expected track set would be: A, Be, C, C'e and D'e (5 plus transrapid) 15:14:36 <Eddi|zuHause> D and De would only be useful if you also divide cargo wagons by axle weight 15:15:29 <planetmaker> that to me sounds like a useful choice. 15:15:45 <planetmaker> Then one can still add narrow gauge, some 3rd rail and maglev 15:16:42 <Eddi|zuHause> 3rd rail combined with long distance isn't all that common, so a B3 and C3 would likely suffice 15:17:04 <Eddi|zuHause> some sections of berlin outer ring had 3rd rail on the long distance track 15:17:07 <planetmaker> yes, not 3rd rail for all. Possibly one 3rd rail suffices even 15:17:27 <Eddi|zuHause> until the outer ring got electrified, then they separated them, like in all other parts of berlin 15:18:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think "high speed" 3rd rail is used anywhere in central europe 15:27:10 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=1284&pid=62355#pid62355 <-- the old railtype discussion 15:30:28 <JVassie> hi guys 15:31:18 <planetmaker> thanks for finding that again, Eddi|zuHause :-) 15:31:51 <planetmaker> hi JVassie 15:31:59 <JVassie> hows it going? 15:32:24 *** AD [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:26 *** AD [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has joined #openttd 15:32:58 *** AD is now known as Guest5201 15:34:59 <JVassie> also planetmaker / Eddi|zuHause 15:35:05 <JVassie> do we plan tt-forums thread? 15:35:08 <JVassie> *plan a 15:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause> JVassie: not yet 15:35:37 <planetmaker> not yet. It doesn't need hot air threads ;-) 15:35:38 <JVassie> :) 15:35:42 <JVassie> indeed not 15:35:44 <planetmaker> it has plenty 15:36:16 <planetmaker> of those 15:36:29 <JVassie> yuppers 15:36:41 <JVassie> i was thinking just now about rolling stock 15:36:49 <JVassie> a seperate sheet on the googledoc? 15:38:38 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:39:04 <JVassie> hey Hyronymus 15:39:13 <Hyronymus> hi Jaime 15:39:15 <JVassie> not seen you on here in a while 15:39:20 <JVassie> Jaime? :p 15:39:45 <Hyronymus> doing fine? 15:40:52 <JVassie> aye not bad thx 15:40:54 <JVassie> yourself? 15:40:56 <Hyronymus> k 15:45:49 <Hyronymus> yexo, planetmaker 15:46:13 <planetmaker> hi Hyronymus 15:46:18 <Hyronymus> hello 15:46:30 * Hyronymus hopes Yexo is here too 15:46:51 <JVassie> im sure he'll read it later if he aint :) 15:47:11 <Hyronymus> k 15:47:38 <Hyronymus> planetmaker: I've been thinking about providing an NML template library 15:47:59 <Hyronymus> I'm hesitant about it though because my own NML skills are far from adequate 15:48:43 <Hyronymus> but the idea is that literally every n00b can browse through a NML template and choose whatever he/she needs to i.e. code an articulated tram 15:48:48 <Yexo> hello Hyronymus 15:48:54 <Yexo> yes, I'm here 15:48:55 <Hyronymus> hi Yexo 15:49:10 <planetmaker> what do you want to generally template, Hyronymus ? 15:49:25 <Hyronymus> to start with all basic stuff 15:49:32 <planetmaker> What I can think of are sprite templates 15:49:38 <planetmaker> like one flat ground tile 15:49:40 <planetmaker> a normal train 15:49:47 <planetmaker> a set of ground tiles with all slopes 15:49:49 <planetmaker> etc 15:49:52 <Hyronymus> yes 15:49:55 <Yexo> I don't think that will work, since combining different templates will require at least some knowledge about nml 15:50:01 <planetmaker> along with the corresponding graphics files 15:50:08 <Yexo> I think the correct way to go would be to create extensive tutorials 15:50:26 <Yexo> oh, sprite templates do make sense :) 15:50:31 <planetmaker> but going beyond sprite templates... is, as yexo says, difficult 15:50:36 <Yexo> sorry, thought you wanted to template the code 15:50:44 <planetmaker> it's then taylored to the individual grf 15:50:53 <Alberth> perhaps make documented examples instead? 15:50:57 <Yexo> if that were possible it'd be a higher level of abstractions and we'd have tried to implement that in nml already 15:50:57 <Hyronymus> hang on 15:51:14 <planetmaker> :-) yeah 15:51:40 <planetmaker> well, if it weren't possible, there'd be no need for templates like we use now in our sets, Yexo ;-) 15:51:57 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 15:51:57 <planetmaker> but... those are all relatively specific 15:52:04 <Hyronymus> I'm mixing things up 15:52:08 <Yexo> those are specific for each grf, not general for all grfs 15:52:39 <planetmaker> yes... though the autofence template could be re-used 15:52:57 <planetmaker> as part of other tile layouts 15:53:05 <Hyronymus> isn't it possible to create a code teamplate for lets say steam engines? 15:53:21 <planetmaker> (and leave the authors puzzled why the grf crashes in OpenTTD 1.1.x :-P) 15:53:21 <Yexo> Hyronymus: a basic template? sure 15:53:30 <Hyronymus> yes, a basic template 15:53:32 <Yexo> but as soon as you want anything customized you'll have to implement that as extra 15:53:55 <Alberth> and you have to explain the template anyways somewhere 15:53:57 <Hyronymus> well, customization as in a tender seems fairly standard to me, right 15:53:57 <planetmaker> Hyronymus: a basic 'template' is just a simple code example 15:54:24 <planetmaker> but creating that as a form of tutorial would be great 15:54:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Hyronymus: i'd not say you need a "template" (in the nml sense), but a "code generator" (in the IDE sense) 15:54:46 <Hyronymus> that would be even greater, Eddi|zuHause 15:54:51 <planetmaker> :-D 15:54:54 <Hyronymus> but way above my head 15:55:01 <Hyronymus> *over my head 15:55:09 <Hyronymus> or whatever the expression is in English 15:55:16 <Hyronymus> :D 15:55:48 <Yexo> Hyronymus: something like this but with additional explanations? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/entry/regression/006_vehicle.nml 15:56:11 <Hyronymus> yes, I was looking for that example 15:56:59 <planetmaker> Yexo: do we want those examples in a) NML documentation b) the tt-wiki c) as regression test? 15:57:03 <Yexo> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/entry/regression/013_train_callback.nml Bigger example with a callback for the capacity and different grahpics per cargo type 15:57:06 <planetmaker> d) something else? 15:57:28 <Yexo> a) only minimal examples in the nml documentation, it's meant to be reference documentation 15:57:41 <planetmaker> :-D I must have some nearly verbatim copy from ogfx+trains there ;-) 15:57:52 <Yexo> c) regression test should test small portions of code, something like 013 is not really appropriate 15:58:00 <Yexo> so tt-wiki seems to be a good place 15:58:45 <Hyronymus> tt-wiki would do indeed 15:59:39 <Hyronymus> also since the grf stuff is there too 16:00:03 <planetmaker> alternatively it could of course also go to the development section of the openttd wiki 16:00:11 <Yexo> tt-wiki is more fitting 16:00:19 <planetmaker> ^ I tend to agree, though 16:00:21 <Yexo> nfo tutorials would also fit there, it keeps everything in one place 16:01:18 <Hyronymus> how much will it be to set it up? 16:01:43 <planetmaker> setup what? 16:01:50 <planetmaker> a wiki page is easy to create ;-) 16:02:02 <Hyronymus> the wiki frame on tt-wiki 16:02:24 <planetmaker> what frame? 16:02:35 <Hyronymus> uhm 16:02:37 <Hyronymus> boy 16:02:39 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@80.187.217.167] has joined #openttd 16:02:49 <Hyronymus> never had so much problem explaining myelf :P 16:02:57 * Hyronymus blames the beer 16:03:02 <planetmaker> :-D 16:03:17 <planetmaker> I'd say: Just start with it 16:03:32 <Hyronymus> how much time will it take to put such more detailed examples on the tt-wiki 16:03:37 <planetmaker> a table of contents of NML tutorials will follow naturally what is there 16:03:39 <Hyronymus> hah, I managed :P 16:03:59 <planetmaker> Dunno? How long does it take you? ;-) 16:04:16 <Hyronymus> looking at the Dutch Trainset development: long 16:04:43 <planetmaker> :-) 16:06:13 <Hyronymus> looking at how to work with a Wiki 16:07:40 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean typing your new page name in the link and clicking on "yes, create new page here"? 16:08:47 <Hyronymus> sst 16:08:49 <Hyronymus> :p 16:09:36 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@80.187.217.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:14:48 <Yexo> planetmaker: the sidebar on http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/ has a link to "Tutorial" which still links to wiki.ttdpatch.net, while those pages are already copied to http://tt-wiki.net/ 16:20:48 <planetmaker> fixed 16:21:34 <Hyronymus> http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Nml 16:23:09 <planetmaker> Hyronymus: == indicates headings 16:23:27 <planetmaker> == heading name == 16:23:40 <Hyronymus> right 16:25:08 <Hyronymus> hmm 16:25:23 <Hyronymus> double heading now :o 16:26:17 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@80.187.217.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:29:25 <planetmaker> The page name is always the first an upper most heading 16:30:16 <Hyronymus> I see 16:30:27 <Hyronymus> I now moved it to NMLTutorial 16:30:36 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecq19.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 16:30:37 <Hyronymus> I saw lakie did that for GRFTutorial once 16:30:41 <frosch123> Hyronymus: add a category right from the start 16:31:56 <Hyronymus> uhm, will try frosch123 16:33:14 <Hyronymus> done 16:33:38 <frosch123> planetmaker: the tutorial page which is linked now, seems to be something copletely different than the old tutorials 16:34:00 <JVassie> <Yexo> I think the correct way to go would be to create extensive tutorials 16:34:04 <Yexo> yes, correct link would be http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/GRFTutorial 16:34:05 <planetmaker> [[Category:NML]] @ Hyronymus 16:34:05 <JVassie> I do plan to help on that front 16:34:07 <JVassie> :p 16:34:20 <Yexo> however that page misses a table of contents 16:34:35 <planetmaker> Yexo: frosch123 I looked at both pages. The current one seems the better link to me 16:34:37 <Yexo> JVassie: great, you have a starting point now: http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial 16:34:43 <JVassie> woo \o/ 16:34:49 <frosch123> planetmaker: ah, sorry, the page just lacks links to the subpages 16:35:22 <Hyronymus> it misses real content, not just the table 16:35:23 <Yexo> planetmaker: right, didn't look to closely, Tutorials links back to GRFTutorial, so it's fine :) 16:35:23 <Hyronymus> :P 16:35:28 <JVassie> Yexo: I might put up a 'my first train in NML' tutorial tonight 16:35:41 <frosch123> planetmaker: http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/GRFTutorial vs. http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Tutorials 16:36:35 <planetmaker> yes... I noticed the "sprite drawing" and the "grf tutorial" - which both IMHO is important. 16:37:05 <frosch123> but presignals, not exactly :p 16:37:09 <planetmaker> :-) 16:37:16 <planetmaker> that's the measurement error 16:37:42 <frosch123> how about moving drawingsprites to GRFTutorials? 16:37:50 <frosch123> and only link GrfTutorials froms the specs? 16:37:52 <planetmaker> that's a solution, too 16:37:57 *** ar3k [~ident@ebv28.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:38:07 <frosch123> (besided GRFTutorials lacks links to all tutorials) 16:39:50 <JVassie> can newgrfs access the current game's difficulty settings? 16:39:57 <planetmaker> yes 16:40:34 <JVassie> so setting runnign costs based on those is possible? 16:40:37 <JVassie> *running 16:41:01 *** nostradamus [~nostradam@dsdf-4db5f579.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:41:08 <Yexo> possible, yes, good idea, not sure 16:41:21 <JVassie> hmm 16:41:27 <JVassie> something to think about perhaps 16:41:29 <JVassie> also btw 16:41:34 <Yexo> when you want to play without AIs for example you difficulty level must be custom 16:41:34 <JVassie> with our idea of core/extended 16:41:41 <Hyronymus> how do I setup a category page 16:41:47 <JVassie> those will be controlled by parameters right? 16:41:51 <Yexo> Hyronymus: click the link and than click edit at the top 16:42:00 <Yexo> JVassie: yes 16:42:13 <JVassie> I presume we will actually provide the option of None too? 16:42:20 <JVassie> so None/Core/Extended 16:42:22 <Yexo> what would be the point of that? 16:42:34 <JVassie> so if people dotn want trains from Czech 16:42:38 <JVassie> *republic 16:42:42 <JVassie> they dont have to include them 16:42:54 <nostradamus> guys i just have chosen an invalid resoluton and cant see the game now. How do i change it in my registry? 16:43:14 <Yexo> nostradamus: read readme.txt section 4.2, find openttd.cfg and fix it in there 16:43:56 <Eddi|zuHause> type alt+enter in the game to switch to windowed mode 16:44:02 <Yexo> most likely place: My Documents\OpenTTD\openttd.cfg 16:44:26 <nostradamus> danke eddi ;) thx to yexo as well 16:46:09 *** nostradamus [~nostradam@dsdf-4db5f579.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 16:49:15 <planetmaker> [18:35] planetmaker [[Category:NML]] @ Hyronymus 16:49:57 <planetmaker> JVassie: I don't really like to depend things on the difficulty settings 16:50:13 <planetmaker> it complicates things a lot and makes testing a BIG PAIN 16:50:26 <planetmaker> and I'm not sure it adds anything 16:50:34 <planetmaker> rather direct parameters IMHO 16:55:07 <Ammler> maybe you can have different "defaults" for the parameters depending on difficulty settings... 16:59:28 <planetmaker> I'm not sure that's possible 16:59:34 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d08f173.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:59:40 <Eddi|zuHause> JVassie: the thought was like this, eg. if you want to play a silesia scenario, you choose "Set: core", "Epoche 1: prussian railway", "Epoche 2: DRG", "Epoche 3: PKP" 17:00:54 <Hyronymus> nice idea 17:00:57 <Eddi|zuHause> if you play a DDR scenario, you choose e.g "Set: core", "Epoche 1: none", "Epoche 2: none", "Epoche 3: DR" 17:01:23 <frosch123> planetmaker: was there any result in the callback template? http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Template:Callback vs. http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Template:CB 17:01:33 <Hyronymus> can different epoches have different cost multipliers 17:02:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Hyronymus: why would that be necessary? 17:02:13 <frosch123> i don't like the abbreviation of CB as it does not really make stuff shorter with so many parameters, but i have no opinion on the format 17:02:14 <planetmaker> frosch123: yours seems slightly more elaborate, mine a sub-set of yours. Thus Template:Callback would seem like the choice. 17:02:16 <Hyronymus> not necessairy 17:02:29 <Hyronymus> but it might make gameplay after 50 years harder 17:02:50 <frosch123> should we install the parser extention to make use of #if for conditional display of rows? 17:03:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Hyronymus: there is inflation for that 17:03:07 <planetmaker> oh, that's not default? 17:03:10 <planetmaker> that'd be nice then 17:03:17 <frosch123> apparently now :) 17:03:31 <frosch123> orudge: we need the parser extention, please :) 17:03:31 <Hyronymus> inflation doesn't matter much to large companies though 17:03:35 <planetmaker> :-) 17:03:44 <frosch123> damns, s/now/not/ 17:03:49 <Hyronymus> but I think that requires a different approach 17:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Hyronymus: if you want to be really evil, you can use the running cost callback to increase for older engines 17:04:16 <planetmaker> :-) 17:04:27 <planetmaker> double every 10 years 17:04:36 <Hyronymus> some people on the forums believe I invented evil 17:04:40 <Hyronymus> so bring it on :P 17:04:43 <planetmaker> didn't you? 17:04:50 * planetmaker hides 17:04:54 * Hyronymus points to his parents 17:05:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Hyronymus: i think it's a little early to decide this stuff, though 17:05:20 <Hyronymus> possaibly 17:05:27 <Hyronymus> *possibly 17:08:50 <planetmaker> quite so. IMHO the further path would now be: get list of engines for the core set, get the sprites, get the engines (and wagons?) into the game in a somewhat 'basic' way. 17:09:07 <planetmaker> Then start adding the advanced things. 17:09:30 <Eddi|zuHause> there are only a handful of different wagons, most can probably be done with recolouring 17:09:49 <planetmaker> yes. Recolouring will hopefully soon be no issue 17:10:07 <planetmaker> Currently I have a bit trouble to use all 256 recolour sprites :-) 17:10:15 <planetmaker> at least in random varaction2 17:12:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the company colours are probably not right for recolouring, need custom masks 17:14:35 <planetmaker> well. Feasible as well. Will be interesting, though, I've never done that before 17:15:01 <Yexo> planetmaker: I don't think Eddi|zuHause means recolouring in the grf, I think he means manual recolouring of the sprites in an image editing program 17:15:22 <planetmaker> maybe :-) 17:15:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: well, could be one or the other... 17:17:36 <andythenorth> moar wagons! 17:17:37 <planetmaker> indeed I'd like to test custom re-colouring at one date... 17:17:41 <andythenorth> moar = better :D 17:18:42 <Eddi|zuHause> scale: i propose 24m = 16lu (1 tile) 17:18:47 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: all look alike to what? :P 17:18:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: all ships :p 17:19:12 * andythenorth lulz :| 17:19:16 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: like "all chinese people look alike" :p 17:19:35 * andythenorth subscribes to newsletter called "why bother" :D 17:20:00 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: that means articulated engines for the steamers 17:20:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, most things need articulation, and longwagon-ish handling 17:20:42 <andythenorth> fwiw, FISH appears to have accidentally been draw to scale of 1px = 2 feet in length ( - view) 17:20:56 <andythenorth> this was not a conscious choice 17:21:19 <andythenorth> a certain amount of post-rationalisation may have happened :P 17:21:40 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 2*64*12*2.54 17:21:40 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 3901.44 17:21:48 <frosch123> http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/ThingsToDo <- impressive page.... does that mean tt-wiki is actually older than the ttdpatch wiki? 17:22:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so 1 tile = 39m? 17:22:37 <frosch123> hmm, nvm, seems that page is importet from ttdpatch wiki 17:23:27 <frosch123> makes it interesting nevertheless though 17:23:58 <frosch123> setting up the ttdpatch wiki in 2004 resulted in the same todo items than setting up the new wiki today :) 17:24:02 <Eddi|zuHause> not that there would be any use in scaling railways to ships, though ;) 17:24:22 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: everything repeats itself 17:24:46 *** Hyronymus is now known as Hyr|away 17:25:24 <planetmaker> lol 17:26:28 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the steam engines in dbset are already 1 tile long 17:26:39 <planetmaker> ah... back to start for Hyr|away it seems: "- Write tutorials for pre-signals, for the new graphics features and perhaps other things" 17:26:53 <JVassie> back 17:27:04 <planetmaker> also in NARS / UKRS 17:27:15 <andythenorth> @calc 30 / 50 17:27:15 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.6 17:27:24 <andythenorth> @calc 50/30 17:27:24 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 1.66666666667 17:27:33 <Eddi|zuHause> main problem in those sets is that the (passenger) wagons are not to scale 17:27:34 <andythenorth> NARS 2 is 1 px per 1.6 feet 17:27:37 <andythenorth> approx 17:27:53 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 1.6*64*12*2.54 17:27:53 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 3121.152 17:27:54 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: they're too short? 17:28:14 <frosch123> [19:27] <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the steam engines in dbset are already 1 tile long <- excluding the tender 17:28:46 <frosch123> and iirc some extent towards the front 17:29:22 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i was under the impression LÃŒP would be including tender 17:30:53 <andythenorth> sometimes a bit of selective compression is good 17:31:02 <andythenorth> the game looks better when it's got a toylike aspect 17:31:30 <andythenorth> one of the better things about 32bpp (there aren't many) is the compressed trains 17:31:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the toy-like aspect won't go away 17:36:15 <JVassie> @calc 440+470+470+395+470 17:36:15 <DorpsGek> JVassie: 2245 17:36:26 <JVassie> @calc 350+340+420 17:36:27 <DorpsGek> JVassie: 1110 17:37:17 <Eddi|zuHause> a BR01 is around 24m, and a UIC-Y wagon is also around 24m (UIC-X around 26m). yet the BR01 is twice as long as any wagon 17:37:38 <JVassie> lul 17:37:53 *** keoz [~keikoz@141.2.96.19] has joined #openttd 17:38:09 <JVassie> @calc 187+27+865 17:38:09 <DorpsGek> JVassie: 1079 17:41:39 <JVassie> planetmaker, Eddi|zuHause 17:41:50 <JVassie> were gonna need to charter which locos had which liveries and when 17:42:38 <Eddi|zuHause> JVassie: that should be easy, livery is mostly defined by company and date 17:42:40 <planetmaker> currently they will all have exactly one livery ;-) 17:42:52 <JVassie> pfft 17:43:05 <planetmaker> but yes, they're very easy to add 17:43:18 <JVassie> and we need a schema for passenger wagons :p 17:44:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22603 /trunk/src/lang/korean.txt: 17:44:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:44:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: korean - 5 changes by telk5093 17:44:11 <Eddi|zuHause> get the engines first 17:44:12 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0f84fe.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 17:45:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Parameter: "livery defined by: build date/servicing date/current date"? 17:46:21 *** Pixa [~Pixa@85.210.67.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:46:48 <JVassie> nice idea Eddi|zuHause 17:46:59 <JVassie> is it possible I presume? 17:47:08 <Eddi|zuHause> it should be... 17:47:33 <Eddi|zuHause> servicing date might need a "long format" version 17:47:42 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise it won't work before 1920 17:48:07 <JVassie> My preference would be build date 17:48:09 <JVassie> speaking of which 17:48:28 <JVassie> its possible to force a wagon to keep the same livery no matter the current year? 17:48:33 <JVassie> even if it enters a depot? 17:48:56 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-33-127.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o] 17:48:58 <andythenorth> liveries are over-rated :P 17:48:59 <andythenorth> 2CC 17:49:02 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:49:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: liveries are half the fun... 17:49:56 <JVassie> exactly 17:50:08 <JVassie> beign able to mix and match liveries on traisn in later years is awesome 17:50:36 <andythenorth> I pity the fool 17:50:40 <andythenorth> who has to draw them :P 17:50:43 <andythenorth> drawing sucks 17:51:16 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: the "last service" won't work before 1920 indeed 17:51:29 <planetmaker> and after 2090 or so 17:51:42 *** keoz [~keikoz@141.2.96.19] has quit [Quit: keoz] 17:52:06 <Eddi|zuHause> JVassie: if you set parameter to "build date", then it won't change livery on entering depot 17:52:29 <JVassie> woo 17:52:38 <JVassie> and thats for wagons too, correct? 17:52:49 <planetmaker> wagons and engines are no difference really 17:52:55 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i'm quite certain we won't introduce new liveries after 2090 :p 17:53:02 <planetmaker> :-) 17:53:44 <JVassie> :D 17:53:46 <JVassie> awesome 17:55:54 <JVassie> Eddi, another thought 17:56:00 *** amkoroew [~matze@p5B104BAA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:11 <JVassie> how do livery overrides (by locomotive) and livery refits, come into your scheme? 17:56:51 <planetmaker> obviously for the MUs 17:57:03 <planetmaker> Livery refit... as drawn and sensible 17:57:17 <planetmaker> but IMHO that's details TBD later 17:57:39 <JVassie> gotcha 17:58:03 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:58:04 <planetmaker> thus the MUs will need special PAX wagons 17:58:44 <planetmaker> but well... maybe :-) 17:59:06 <planetmaker> it's just adding a few more lines 17:59:15 <JVassie> hehe 18:00:36 <planetmaker> I'm looking forward to the long wagon thingy ;-) 18:00:46 <JVassie> whats hte plan re: that? 18:00:52 <JVassie> <Eddi|zuHause> a BR01 is around 24m, and a UIC-Y wagon is also around 24m (UIC-X around 26m). yet the BR01 is twice as long as any wagon 18:00:54 <planetmaker> 1-tile wagons 18:01:17 <planetmaker> eddi has some code for that 18:01:47 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=53511 18:05:47 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:06:19 <JVassie> interesting 18:07:41 <JVassie> this would obviously have to apply to MU engines too 18:08:03 <JVassie> which are more often than not the same (+/- a tiny amount) size as the wagons 18:11:21 <JVassie> 2x size pax cars look weird! :p 18:11:57 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 18:20:27 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:29:35 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.174.42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:33:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.174.42] has joined #openttd 18:36:03 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has joined #openttd 18:38:09 *** Hyr|away is now known as Hyronymus 18:39:11 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 18:43:58 <Hyronymus> w00t 18:44:07 <Hyronymus> added a TOC to the NML wiki 18:52:25 *** Biolunar_ [~mahdi@blfd-5d821cee.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:57:09 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-067-089-203.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 18:58:40 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d08f173.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:01:09 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:02:47 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 19:04:32 *** Guest5189 is now known as Mazur 19:06:06 * __ln__ saw a flying dutchman 19:12:53 <Hyronymus> lies 19:13:38 <__ln__> honest 19:14:10 * Hyronymus denies everything 19:15:01 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:47 <__ln__> he was on an F-16 19:24:44 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:28:38 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has joined #openttd 19:37:35 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:43:45 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> so you didn't actually "see" him while flying. 19:58:57 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@D97A83D8.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:08:01 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:09:24 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:09:28 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 20:09:49 <Wolf01> 'night 20:09:59 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host109-162-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:16:28 *** m [~m@ppp-93-104-7-176.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:54 *** Zonta [~DAN@bas2-sthubert21-1176157536.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 20:20:06 *** Zonta [~DAN@bas2-sthubert21-1176157536.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [] 20:27:15 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:32:56 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: The Third Tiberium War - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 20:44:44 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 20:49:26 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:05 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:51:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:51:54 *** Amis [~Amis@5400C20B.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Quit: *pop*] 20:52:37 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@D97A83D8.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 20:55:48 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:01:57 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:27 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 21:16:36 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:21:09 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4ead.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:54 <dihedral> must have some wrong code somewhere: * null (~grapes@dslb-188-099-242-126.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #channel 21:34:31 <Eddi|zuHause> BR 119 - rumÀnische Grossdiesellok (23. August) [mit erhöhter SchadenshÀufigkeit :cool:] <- lmao :p 21:37:58 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-067-089-203.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:43:34 <Terkhen> good night 21:44:50 *** Biolunar_ [~mahdi@blfd-5d821cee.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 21:51:13 <dihedral> night 21:57:33 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:54 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:16:44 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 22:16:54 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:17:14 *** elmz_ [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:36 *** KritiK_ [~Maxim@89-178-240-50.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 22:19:45 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-240-50.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:00 *** KritiK_ is now known as KritiK 22:38:41 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:39 *** snorre [~snorre@c6529BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:45:41 *** snorre [~snorre@c6529BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 22:53:13 <JVassie> hai guys 23:04:49 *** Mks [~mks@c83-176-234-98.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:08:01 *** Mks [~mks@c83-176-234-98.cust.tele2.se] has joined #openttd 23:17:02 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-029-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 23:39:39 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:41:35 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:30 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:52:03 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D5BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]