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00:20:24 *** narf0 [~narf@178-36-91-49.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:39:00 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:56:06 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 01:00:26 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@borealis.jontysewell.net] has joined #openttd 01:33:04 *** snorre [~snorre@c6529BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 02:11:43 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:21:07 <Chris_Booth> Beer! 02:21:38 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-221-162.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:27:11 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-135-138.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:34:36 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5C04.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 02:41:37 <__ln__> good morning 02:57:42 <supermop> hi 03:05:37 *** Chris_Booth_ [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 03:10:50 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:11:04 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth 03:26:39 *** cassie [ba39d28c@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 03:27:14 <cassie> can anyone help me with this? 03:28:23 *** cassie [ba39d28c@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [] 03:49:37 *** a_p3rson [603c15ee@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 04:08:41 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:33 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7319A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:49 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7479C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:57:55 *** [com]buster [~Eternal@D979B08F.cm-3-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:06:21 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 05:52:17 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 05:57:18 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 06:18:32 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e01bb41.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:21:40 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-027-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 06:37:56 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:49:33 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5A82.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:52:15 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:01:36 <planetmaker> moin 07:05:06 <V453000> hello :) 07:11:55 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 07:13:02 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Juo] 07:20:26 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 07:25:31 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:26:02 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-58-178.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:26:45 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DAE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:31:25 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-027-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 07:48:48 <Terkhen> good morning 07:49:00 <Markk> Goedemorgen 07:54:00 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:47:08 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:47:12 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:48:44 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DAE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52:06 *** LordAro [~LordAro@88-110-202-63.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 08:53:40 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:03:04 <LordAro> mornings 09:05:36 <planetmaker> hello LordAro 09:05:49 <LordAro> hi pm :) 09:06:26 <planetmaker> LordAro: there are time and again questions asked about 32bpp etc... Would you maybe care to write a nice posting which summarizes the requirements and where to actually get them from in like, say, 3 easy steps? 09:06:54 <planetmaker> Such posting, done comprehensively, could possibly be stickied then... 09:07:08 <planetmaker> and you then can say "didn't you read...?" :-P 09:11:05 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=958122#p958122 <-- how I loved that answer :-) 09:12:41 <Eddi|zuHause> there once was a patch for drag&drop bus station, was that included or not? 09:14:54 <planetmaker> not sure, I don't recall... maybe, maybe not 09:19:40 <planetmaker> it actually works just fine 09:19:47 <planetmaker> I just never use it there :-) 09:29:13 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-12-100.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:34:18 <Terkhen> it was included 09:34:30 <Terkhen> before 1.0.0 IIRC 09:35:03 <planetmaker> quite certainly, yes 09:35:30 <Terkhen> drive-through stops can be dragged in any direction, normal stops only in the direction that lets the entrance free 09:36:08 <planetmaker> that's what I amended to my posting, yes ;-) 10:00:31 *** perk111 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 10:03:09 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 10:03:09 *** George is now known as Guest2737 10:03:09 *** George|2 is now known as George 10:05:36 *** Guest2737 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:05:59 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:26:46 <LordAro> planetmaker: sorry for slow reply, got called away.... i usually just redirect people to the wiki 10:26:48 <LordAro> http://wiki.openttd.org/32bpp_Extra_Zoom_Levels#Installation 10:27:10 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, i think i isolated the piece that causes the crash... 10:27:27 <planetmaker> LordAro: 32bpp != extra zoom 10:27:33 <planetmaker> IMHO that distinction is crucial 10:27:54 <LordAro> thats true, but normally people asking for '32bpp' want the extra zoom 10:27:55 <planetmaker> And - please correct me - the 32bpp should also work w/o the extra zoom patch, right? 10:28:03 <LordAro> i believe so 10:28:06 <planetmaker> LordAro: I'm not too sure actually :-) 10:28:29 <planetmaker> Thus - my personal opinion - direct people first and foremost to a 32bpp installation with default OpenTTD 10:28:49 <planetmaker> And only then when they have succeeded in that, they might consider to also use a patched version 10:28:56 <Eddi|zuHause> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2521/getfile/5897/curve_info_fs2521.diff <-- in this patch, the line "int bz = (u_p == NULL)" must mean "u_n == NULL" 10:29:17 <planetmaker> It'd make using 32bpp MUCH easier, if it wouldn't give the impression people need a special version 10:29:20 <V453000> <- had no idea about that 10:29:22 <planetmaker> And might increase its usage a lot 10:29:41 <V453000> what is 32bpp then? 10:29:43 <Eddi|zuHause> but i kinda doubt this will ever included, so i'm not going to worry any further ;) 10:30:37 <planetmaker> LordAro: and don't worry about your reply time :-) There's nothing which needs excuses 10:31:39 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: you should ask that when a dev involved in that patch is around :) 10:31:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: it is my patch ;) 10:32:20 <Alberth> and you ask here? hmm :) 10:32:35 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i'm just thinking outloud 10:32:59 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:36:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: basically, the patch is fairly obsolete by now 10:36:41 *** perk111 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 10:36:50 <Eddi|zuHause> it was decided that patching var45 is useless, and adding 60+ variables provides way better control 10:38:10 <Alberth> fine by me, I don't know much about variables anyway :) 10:51:16 <Eddi|zuHause> <V453000> q: how do I indicate the maximum "safe" size of a sprite? In this case for a 0.5 tile wagon, but overall? <-- after reviewing a bit, i think 11 or 12px in Z direction is the "pain" limit. george's long vehicles occasionally are bigger (i've seen 15 or 16px), and it really doesn't fit. 10:54:02 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 10:54:46 <LordAro> planetmaker: ok, i'll look into writing something :) however, most of the extra-zoom graphics, due to the patch modifying palette (or something), do not work (very well) with normal zoom (IIRC) 10:55:35 <planetmaker> sounds not like a good approach for the patch, if it also modifies colours. 10:55:46 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: I was already told about the templates which work quite well :) using pikka ones 10:55:49 <V453000> but thanks :p 10:56:01 <V453000> and yes, long vehicles really dont fit :( 10:58:07 <LordAro> planetmaker: it has to (don't know details) otherwise half the colours are the same 10:59:04 <planetmaker> LordAro: why would colours in normal zoom and extra zoom need to differ? Sorry, doesn't sound logical ;-) 10:59:25 <LordAro> i don't know the details, you'd have to ask GeekToo 10:59:45 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 11:00:02 <planetmaker> I haven't seen him in long :-( 11:00:42 <LordAro> same, 32bpp seems to be pretty dead atm :( 11:01:06 <LordAro> i'm probably the most active person involved, followed my maqunista 11:01:30 <LordAro> this page is good, methinks? http://wiki.openttd.org/Playing_with_32bpp_graphics 11:01:39 <planetmaker> but yes, it seems to temper with the 32bpp bliter 11:01:42 <planetmaker> *blitter 11:02:20 <peter1138> iirc, EZ completely ignores non-32bpp blitters too 11:02:41 <planetmaker> LordAro: I had nearly always the impression that the 32bpp project suffers from mixing several issues - which leads to none being really solved: 11:02:48 <planetmaker> - enabling zoom levels 11:03:01 <planetmaker> - allowing extra graphics for zoom levels 11:03:25 <planetmaker> - changing how colours are treated 11:03:43 <planetmaker> I don't know the patch, so I can't judge wether 3 is really needed at all 11:03:57 <planetmaker> and yes, the zoom levels should work also for 8bpp, if you ask me ;-) 11:04:05 <LordAro> peter1138: yes, ez now forces 32bpp blitter 11:04:07 <planetmaker> and on the GUI 11:04:07 <peter1138> - wanting to add gameplay altering features, such as object scales, smooth rail cuves, etc... 11:04:20 <planetmaker> peter1138: yes, much indeed :-) 11:04:45 <V453000> what is the point of 32bpp? more pixels on each sprite? 11:04:51 <peter1138> no 11:04:52 <LordAro> peter1138: no one really wants that, it's just regualrly suggested by newbies due to the improved graphics 11:04:52 <V453000> without the zoom 11:04:54 <peter1138> colour depth 11:05:09 <planetmaker> V453000: more colours 11:05:21 <planetmaker> 2**24 instead of 192 11:05:34 <V453000> hmm, insteresting 11:05:47 <V453000> but well, why :) 11:05:49 <peter1138> though the palette used in 8bpp is a pretty good spread for most things 11:06:14 <peter1138> why? because there are some things that you can't get quite the right colour with 8bpp 11:06:29 <peter1138> (not 8bpp in general, but 8bpp with ttd's palette) 11:06:53 <V453000> well, yes but I still feel like the 8bpp is quite sufficient 11:07:13 <peter1138> so do most newgrf authors 11:07:25 <peter1138> i think mb had problems with some colours in dbsetxl though 11:07:48 <V453000> well sure sometimes it gets a bit harder but that is what pixel art is about, isnt it 11:09:07 <LordAro> planetmaker: company colours: http://i52.tinypic.com/qyv805.png 11:10:06 <planetmaker> LordAro: but if that's an issue - then it's not an issue which needs solving in this context 11:10:14 <planetmaker> it's or it'd be a trunk bug 11:10:57 <LordAro> precisely, obviously the patch needs to be re-written at some point, although that'd probably break most graphics :( 11:10:59 <planetmaker> at least it's a thing completely separate from any zoom feature :-) 11:11:28 <planetmaker> why would the graphics break? Company-colours? 11:11:35 <peter1138> i forget how the overlays are done 11:11:42 <peter1138> but that image doesn't seem right :S 11:12:33 <LordAro> planetmaker: something to do with the overlays? i'm not sure... 11:12:49 <LordAro> i just organise the grqaphics in the repo, i don't make them myself :) 11:14:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C01E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:14:53 <LordAro> *graphics 11:16:09 * planetmaker wonders how difficult an implementation of something like http://scale2x.sourceforge.net/index.html would be. 11:16:19 <planetmaker> My guess is not terribly difficult 11:16:25 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm43.epsilon82.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 11:16:36 <LordAro> off you go then ;) 11:16:41 <peter1138> scale2x is simple 11:16:57 <peter1138> restructuring the rest of the code for larger sprites is not 11:17:36 <planetmaker> and it'd work independent of colour depth, as far as I see 11:17:55 <planetmaker> peter1138: yes, that'd be most work :-) 11:18:24 <planetmaker> so even this could be split actually into two: 11:18:36 <planetmaker> - adding additional zoom levels (2/3/4) 11:18:47 <planetmaker> - adding capability to provide dedicated sprites for zoom levels 11:19:06 <planetmaker> after all we already have zoom levels 0.5 and 0.25(?) 11:19:27 <peter1138> well, truelight once had zoom in working 11:19:30 <peter1138> er, TrueBrain 11:19:46 <peter1138> it was glitchy though 11:19:53 <TrueBrain> and useless 11:20:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.188.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:20:11 <TrueBrain> but yeah, never committed it due to the glitches :D 11:20:26 <LordAro> O.o a wild TrueBrain appeared :) 11:20:48 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: what were the (main) glitches? 11:20:52 <Eddi|zuHause> a highlight tends to do that with people ;) 11:21:00 <Alberth> LordAro: wild? you haven't seem him wild :p 11:21:01 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: offset issues 11:21:09 <planetmaker> hm 11:21:22 <planetmaker> that possibly could be solved :-) 11:21:25 <TrueBrain> 2x zoomin would make every pixel 2x2 (slow drawing btw) 11:21:35 <TrueBrain> but if that 2x2 block was on an edge, glitches appeared 11:21:41 <planetmaker> ah 11:21:47 <planetmaker> makes sense 11:21:50 <TrueBrain> highlights, scrolling, mouse, .. 11:22:07 <peter1138> yeah 11:22:09 <planetmaker> sounds like not fun 11:22:15 <TrueBrain> I could solve a few, but ... I really disliked the zoomin, it didn't do what I would hope it did 11:22:30 <peter1138> otoh, if you pre-scale the graphics on load... 11:22:59 <TrueBrain> yeah, we prescale the other resolutions too, that would solve the slowness there 11:23:16 <TrueBrain> then you have 32bit gfx people who drewl on higher quality 11:23:31 <TrueBrain> but .. zoomin just doesn't look right in my opinion :) 11:23:37 <planetmaker> so... that'd be the way to go then: pre-scale and cache everything at all zoom levels 11:23:42 <TrueBrain> anyway, the whole blitter is prepared for zoomin :) 11:23:56 <planetmaker> :-) 11:24:11 <Alberth> TrueBrain: 'not right' as in you need new pixel art instead? 11:24:28 <Eddi|zuHause> what's actually wrong with the patch the 32bpp people use? 11:24:37 <Eddi|zuHause> other than x4 is very... jumpy 11:24:44 <TrueBrain> Alberth: if you mean the "doesn't look right", no, what I mean is that it makes the game more clumpsy to operate 11:25:13 <TrueBrain> it just doesn't add to the game, in my opinion, so I stopped looking into it :) 11:25:31 <Alberth> like opendune with its too small sceen? 11:25:42 <TrueBrain> kinda, yeah 11:26:09 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: at least it doesn't care about 8bpp 11:27:53 <planetmaker> and lines like -/** Data structure describing a sprite. */ 11:27:57 <planetmaker> don't feel right either ;-) 11:28:14 <peter1138> heh 11:33:02 <planetmaker> ... 11:33:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i hate when he says that. i never know what it means 11:33:52 <TrueBrain> the dots, or the heh? 11:33:56 <planetmaker> - AddSortableSpriteToDraw(pylon_base + pylon_sprites[temp], PAL_NONE, x, y, 1, 1, BB_HEIGHT_UNDER_BRIDGE, 11:33:59 <Eddi|zuHause> the heh 11:34:03 <planetmaker> + AddSortableSpriteToDraw(pylon_base + pylon_sprites[temp], PAL_NONE, x, y, 1, 1, BB_HEIGHT_UNDER_BRIDGE + 5, 11:34:19 <planetmaker> so there goes an unexplained + 5.... 11:34:23 <planetmaker> wth? 11:34:49 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: MAGIC NUMBERS!!! 11:34:53 <TrueBrain> I love them the most of all numbers 11:34:55 <TrueBrain> they are ... MAGIC 11:35:08 <planetmaker> and it's the 3rd prime. how wonderful ;-) 11:35:20 <TrueBrain> its a bit like having a soup of a colour you can't define 11:35:22 <planetmaker> and a fibonacci number 11:35:33 <TrueBrain> it is also odd 11:35:34 <TrueBrain> 1 more than 4 11:35:36 <TrueBrain> 1 less than 6 11:36:10 <TrueBrain> within the domain if [5, 5] 11:36:19 <planetmaker> + bp.height -= y; //UnScaleByZoom(y, dpi->zoom); <-- I have the feeling this somewhat undloes the preparation for zoom 11:36:24 <Eddi|zuHause> "you shall not count to 2, unless you go on to 3" (or something like that) 11:36:26 <TrueBrain> even [5, 5) and (5, 5] :P 11:36:42 <planetmaker> omg! The end is near! 11:37:17 <TrueBrain> I see planetmaker dried up perfectly as dev; as sarcastic as the rest of us when it goes about reading patches :D 11:37:35 <peter1138> hehe 11:37:39 <planetmaker> hmpf :-P 11:38:12 <Eddi|zuHause> wth is this stupid discussion of renaming "NewGRFs" to "mods"? 11:38:19 <peter1138> ?? 11:38:21 <planetmaker> people adopt to their environments ;-) 11:38:24 <TrueBrain> LOL! That is a new one Eddi|zuHause :D 11:39:13 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=954967#p954967 <-- about starting from here 11:40:09 <planetmaker> stupid, not stupid. Mod is more universally understood than NewGRF. But NewGRF is more specific 11:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause> that is true, but the discussion is all wrong... 11:41:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i think we need a "?" button in every window, with a short description what the window is about 11:41:22 <Eddi|zuHause> "short" being "longer than a tooltip" 11:41:40 <planetmaker> so a tooltip for the window title 11:41:57 <Eddi|zuHause> no, a real popup window 11:42:14 <planetmaker> which can only be disabled by editing the cfg ;-) 11:42:14 <Eddi|zuHause> with a text, two or three paragraphs long 11:42:50 <Alberth> "this is a popup window, it explains about the purpose of the window you just clicked at" 11:43:07 <planetmaker> and then recurse ;-) 11:43:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: makes for a good easter egg ;) 11:43:48 <planetmaker> but one window showing help on the last active window... might make sense 11:44:36 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:52:31 <Eddi|zuHause> could use a callback adjusting the xrel/yrel of a sprite, without duplicating it in the GRF ;) 12:15:24 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 12:17:54 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has left #openttd [] 12:26:54 <planetmaker> http://www.derwesten.de/staedte/dortmund/Sarrazin-als-Arsch-verharmlost-id4860327.html <-- haha :-) Trial for verbal offence: "I'm sorry, that just slipped through. One should not downplay him as ass" 12:27:03 <planetmaker> an excuse actually accepted by court ;-) 12:27:41 <MNIM> well it could be worse. 12:27:50 <MNIM> he could have called him an arschloch 12:28:20 <__ln__> http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/07/sarah-palin-movie-debuts-to-empty-theater-in-orange-county/241983/ 12:28:44 <MNIM> haaa haaa 12:29:10 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-027-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:29:45 *** fjb is now known as Guest2747 12:29:46 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFD7C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:30:41 <planetmaker> MNIM: that's the same level of verbal injury... 12:31:02 <planetmaker> s/injury/abuse/g 12:31:21 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-107-122-248.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:31:44 <flitz> hi 12:32:19 <Alberth> hi 12:32:27 <MNIM> hehehe 12:32:53 <flitz> as I'm losing overview right now: what would be the easiest method to retrieve a vehicle's image width without having an actual vehicle at hand ? 12:33:40 <flitz> what I've seen so far all uses a vehicle pointer to retrieve the correct sprite group and callbacks etc. 12:35:35 <Alberth> you're talking about what? c++ code, nfo code, nml code, sprite image sheets (as in .png), ??? 12:36:09 <flitz> c++ 12:36:22 <planetmaker> there's a method which returns the sprite size 12:36:44 *** Guest2747 [~frank@p5DDFE6E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:38:23 <Alberth> int GetVehicleWidth(Vehicle *v) <-- a random search gave me this 12:38:46 <Alberth> but I don't know whether this is any good. 12:38:58 <Alberth> I never needed to get that information until now 12:39:34 <flitz> yes, but I was looking for a method without using a vehicle pointer, the only thing I have at hand is the sprite number 12:39:39 <Alberth> you may want to look into the train information window, or the buy vehicle window 12:39:54 <flitz> I can draw that as a vehicle but the width is incorrect then 12:41:50 <flitz> all I found is something strange with resolverobjects for retrieving spritegroups, up until that point you always need to pass vehicle pointers 12:41:56 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:e1b4:3d58:6a77:ff91] has joined #openttd 12:41:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:42:16 <planetmaker> yes, seems to be true 12:42:33 <Alberth> static inline const Sprite *GetSprite(SpriteID sprite, SpriteType type) <-- something in this direction? 12:43:14 <planetmaker> there's also a GetSpriteWidth 12:43:26 <Alberth> No doubt you can get a Sprite * from a SpriteID 12:43:37 <Alberth> from there you should be able to get the width 12:43:38 <planetmaker> hm, *Size 12:44:34 <flitz> hm thanks, I was totally stuck with the search inside the vehicle-code and didn't look anywhere else 12:44:57 <planetmaker> what do you actually try to achieve? 12:44:58 <Alberth> flitz: just look for "GetSprite*" like functions 12:45:13 <planetmaker> gfx.cpp is your friend there mostly, yes 12:46:00 <flitz> you probably forgot, but some time ago I was tinkering with template-based vehicle replacements ;) 12:46:19 <flitz> then some important exams made me pause that for a while 12:48:54 <flitz> for the templates I have created my own structure and when drawing a template train onto some gui I needed to get the correct sprite id and from that the correct sprite width 12:49:27 <flitz> I looked how the vehicles in the game do it, and they do it in a very complicated way 12:50:56 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:51:08 <Alberth> no doubt due to history, and trying to be generic and all that 12:51:53 <planetmaker> I see... Though DrawVehicleImage is not useful? 12:52:02 <Eddi|zuHause> flitz: what prevents you from reusing the depot gui? 12:53:04 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Juo] 12:53:09 <planetmaker> create (virtual) vehicles and let the drawing be done by existing routines 12:54:11 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:57:02 <flitz> @Eddi: good hint actually, there is a drawtrainengine() method that doesn't use any vehicle pointer... I will test that 12:58:23 <Eddi|zuHause> flitz: i think with all the newgrf stuff around, you won't get away with using no pointer. the only thing that works there is a buy-vehicle-window stuff, but the displayed vehicle there may vary significantly from the actual vehicle 12:58:30 <flitz> @planetmaker: I was going to use that as last resort, only question about that was, when building a new (virtual) vehicle, I need to specify some tile index if I see that correctly 12:59:41 <Belugas> hello 12:59:42 <planetmaker> that seems like, yes 12:59:45 <flitz> @Eddi: I extracted the needed code to retrieve the correct spriteid without using a real vehicle, only problem now is the width and later possibly the correct display of cargo type 12:59:57 * Alberth waves hi to Belugas 13:00:22 <planetmaker> But... is that an issue? 13:00:26 <planetmaker> hi Belugas 13:01:03 <Belugas> hi everyone :D 13:01:07 <flitz> IIRC the game crashed on me when giving a wrong tile, this would force me to look for a correct depot or patch of rail or something 13:01:12 <Eddi|zuHause> flitz: you get crazy issues like calulating the available refits 13:01:15 <flitz> hi -> belugas 13:01:42 <Belugas> Belugas <- hi -> flitz 13:01:44 <Eddi|zuHause> flitz: which may depend on the engines and wagons configuration 13:02:59 <Eddi|zuHause> flitz: all the newgrf callbacks needed for that will require a vehicle pointer 13:03:22 <planetmaker> ^ good point 13:05:47 <flitz> hm, when trying it, it seems that I can just create a new vehicle with TileIndex 0, just need to make sure to quickly get rid of that vehicle afterwards before the rest of the game wants to do stuff with it 13:05:55 <flitz> like displaying in some list 13:06:45 <flitz> and if I have a long template train, I need to create a virtual engine or wagon for each of its components, just for the sake of drawing the template 13:07:40 <Eddi|zuHause> flitz: the autoreplace command creates temporary vehicles 13:11:05 <planetmaker> flitz: or just create a new vehicle pool for your templates 13:11:26 <planetmaker> but as eddi says, autoreplace already uses iirc something along these lines 13:14:42 <flitz> I've found something like: "Train **old_vehs = CallocT<Train *>(num_units)", doesn't seem to be drawing related, though 13:15:15 <flitz> the template trains use their own pool already, I didn't want them to get messed up with the real ones, that would certainly have happened at one point or the other 13:17:06 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the difference between "Get*Icon" and "Get*Image" (where "*" is a vehicle type)? 13:17:47 <peter1138> icon just gets a specific direction 13:18:03 <peter1138> for purchase list/depot/new engine/etc/etc 13:18:19 <Eddi|zuHause> aha 13:18:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that may already be exactly the place i am searching for ;) 13:22:16 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 13:36:06 <Eddi|zuHause> George: care to test something for me? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=958164#p958164 13:36:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C01E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 13:37:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr2 [~Flex@i59F6C01E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 13:43:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C01E.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:44:58 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C01E.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:44:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr2 [~Flex@i59F6C01E.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:38 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, seems to work in the depot gui, but not in the train details 13:55:58 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: you'll have to provide binaries to have him test that. afaik 13:56:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, you're right 13:56:47 <Eddi|zuHause> we should provide a cets-test-binary anyway as soon as we are using these variables :) 13:58:26 <Eddi|zuHause> something is weird in train_gui.cpp:DrawTrainDetails() 13:59:00 <planetmaker> should be relatively easily feasible. We just need a repo, e.g. at the DevZone, and then we could get the CF pull from there 13:59:12 <planetmaker> and push results back. In principle at least 14:02:19 <Eddi|zuHause> two patches needed are this: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2521/getfile/7484/veh_var_access3.diff and the one attached to above post (once cleaned up and made sure to work) 14:03:07 <Eddi|zuHause> and then someone to sporadically synch with trunk ;) 14:06:18 <Ammler> the devzone had once automatic features to at least detect merge and build errors 14:08:11 <Eddi|zuHause> these are very small and confined patches, unlikely to have merge conflicts 14:11:15 <Ammler> if you want, I can get it working again... 14:11:59 <Ammler> no big deal, needs basically just checking if my script survived the recent changes :-) 14:15:39 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: hope that they'll have merge conflicts at *some stage* ;-) 14:15:50 <Eddi|zuHause> aye ;) 14:23:31 *** keky___ [~stefan@p5098b65a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:28:26 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecx199.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: âI-n-v-i-s-i-o-nâ 3.2 (July '10)] 14:31:06 *** Skiddles [~notme@cm43.epsilon82.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 14:36:42 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm43.epsilon82.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:39:37 *** ar3k [~ident@ecj177.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 14:39:40 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 14:43:15 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 14:44:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C01E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:10:37 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DAE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:13:56 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@bas8-london14-1279293012.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 15:15:31 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:24:01 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:29:27 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@bas8-london14-1279293012.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 15:31:24 <Eddi|zuHause> cool, i think this works now... preparing patch 15:41:28 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker, George: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=958164#p958164 now with another patch that should really do everything needed to display a special GUI sprite 15:42:08 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: so where do i get a devzone project from, to post these three patches? 15:42:33 <Eddi|zuHause> and where did i put my small screwdriver... 15:44:49 <Belugas> i see it, it's on the shelf above the train station 3 15:48:09 <peter1138> don't patches get posted to flyspray? 15:48:12 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e01bb41.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 15:48:24 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: The Third Tiberium War - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 15:49:25 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 15:49:33 <Eddi|zuHause> next in this theatre... 15:55:09 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: that project needs creation, I guess. 15:55:27 <planetmaker> Question though: you want to use it as mq project or as a patched trunk? 15:56:16 <planetmaker> peter1138: the CF can only badly pull from flyspray while it could pull from a repository found elsewhere ;-) 15:57:18 <peter1138> eh 15:57:29 <peter1138> well i have no real idea what devzone is then 15:57:33 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:57:42 <peter1138> thought it was something ottdcoop related 15:59:51 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: it's an easy place to host a repo so the compile farm can create binaries 16:00:54 <flitz> Does anyone know about the problem that a window is being drawn around 1000 times on each update ? 16:03:05 *** SpComb^_ [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has joined #openttd 16:03:32 *** SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06:21 <Alberth> 'each update' ? 16:06:21 *** SpComb^_ [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:07:17 <Alberth> is the window over something moving in the main window? 16:07:26 <Alberth> then yes, you get lots of updates 16:08:09 *** SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has joined #openttd 16:08:33 <flitz> I just draw 2 train images, like in a depot, there is no reason to update the gui 16:10:39 <Alberth> that needs code to decide which part of the dirty rectangles can actually be seen 16:11:14 <Alberth> having more than one update of your window should work anyway 16:13:13 *** Skiddles [~notme@cm43.epsilon82.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:13:19 <Alberth> oh, and it then also needs administration which window ordered a redraw, assuming if you request a redraw of your window, it should be updated 16:15:55 <planetmaker> peter1138: it may be sponsored by #openttdcoop (or rather Ammler and myself to be more precise) - but it's a place for any 3rd-party TTD related content as long as it has a permissive license 16:16:36 *** ampunk [~ampunk@201.210.35.160] has joined #openttd 16:17:01 <ampunk> hi 16:17:04 <planetmaker> ho 16:17:09 <ampunk> im a noob 16:17:09 <V453000> hu 16:17:11 <ampunk> player 16:17:17 <ampunk> need info 16:17:22 <planetmaker> good. Means you can only get better then ;-) 16:17:24 <ampunk> about shortcuts 16:17:32 <ampunk> ty 16:17:37 <planetmaker> (no offence meant) 16:17:49 <planetmaker> there's a file called hotkeys.cfg 16:17:56 <planetmaker> next to openttd.cfg 16:18:01 <planetmaker> there you can configure hotkeys 16:18:06 <ampunk> ty 16:18:07 <ampunk> 0o 16:18:11 <ampunk> <3 16:18:18 <planetmaker> close openttd before you edit it 16:18:24 <planetmaker> it will be overwritten otherwise 16:18:35 <planetmaker> (or at least I'm not sure it wouldn't) 16:20:09 <Alberth> you can also try reading the wiki: http://wiki.openttd.org/Hotkeys 16:20:17 <planetmaker> the one thing I change(d) for myself is assigning y to the road toolbar. Something missing a default hotkey ;-) 16:20:58 <planetmaker> ho, that page doesn't look bad :-) I didn't know it existed 16:23:09 <Alberth> yeah, it seems new 16:23:20 <Alberth> or 'updated', actually :) 16:23:22 <flitz> Alberth: thanks, must be something else though, something selfmade 16:25:24 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:13 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 16:27:51 <ampunk> español?? 16:27:55 <ampunk> spanish? 16:30:05 <planetmaker> yes, they exist ;-) 16:31:07 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:32:09 <Alberth> it is spoken by many people, whole south america 16:34:28 <Eddi|zuHause> that is actually only half true ;) 16:34:56 <Eddi|zuHause> a large part of south america actually speaks portugese ;) 16:35:08 <planetmaker> :-) 16:35:20 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5A82.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 16:35:22 <flitz> Alberth: without doing anything special the gui is updated only once (on creation for example), but when I do CmdBuildRailVehicle() on each call of DrawWidget(), the widget is redrawn 540 times, without anything actually being drawn 16:35:58 <flitz> that has to do with my problem, I just don't know why a plain call of CmdBuildRailVehicle() issues a redraw of my gui if nothing is being drawn 16:36:15 <Eddi|zuHause> flitz: don't do this in DrawWidget then 16:36:16 <Alberth> CmdXXX ? 16:36:32 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:36:50 <flitz> I call it directly instead of using DoCommand(...) 16:37:11 <Alberth> CmdXXX are for issueing user commands (usually due to some mouse click) 16:37:24 <flitz> @Eddi: I call some other function, so cmdbuildrailvehicle is an indirect call 16:38:10 <Alberth> you need something far more lowlevel I think, like 'new Vehicle' or so 16:39:41 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d008825.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:40:38 <planetmaker> quak! 16:41:31 <flitz> Alberth: this was more of a quick try so that I do not need to do all the necessary setup of the vehicle myself 16:42:21 <Alberth> ok, since it sounds like a very bad way of drawing a vehicle 16:42:39 <flitz> I've found that the cmd-func calls updatetraingroupid() which in turn calls SetWindowDirty(WC_REPLACE_VEHICLE, VEH_TRAIN); weird only that this doesn't correspond to my own gui 16:42:54 *** MNIM [~LiesLies@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:03 <Alberth> nice, make new dirty rectangles while rendering a gui :p 16:44:53 *** MNIM [~LiesLies@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 16:45:23 *** ampunk [~ampunk@201.210.35.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:11 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22673 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Add #4690: Provide random bits in var 0x10 for callback 0x3B in all cases (Hirundo) 16:50:20 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:54:00 * MNIM waves. 16:54:05 <MNIM> hmmmmh 16:55:47 <MNIM> I have a dilemma. what language would you people recommend for making a 2d plane rts game, capable of multiple platforms? 16:56:29 <MNIM> that is, for somebody who has only been introduced to VB, limited C*, python and flash? 16:57:07 <planetmaker> VB and C* are not so much cross-platform 16:57:31 <peter1138> C*? 16:57:31 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sirius.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:57:35 <Alberth> I don't know what C* is, do you mean C# 16:57:35 <MNIM> hmmmh, I always heard that the C family wasn't that hard to crossplatform 16:57:44 <MNIM> No, I mean anything with C 16:57:45 <peter1138> C* might mean C/C++ 16:58:08 <MNIM> you never heard of wildcard characters? >.< 16:58:09 <planetmaker> MNIM: C != C# != Objective C != ... 16:58:32 <planetmaker> not much difference, but makes a difference to being portable 16:58:38 <MNIM> ahah. 16:59:34 <Alberth> if you need CPU power, go for C/C++ 17:00:03 <MNIM> well, for the kind of scale Im having in mind right now, has any one of you ever heard of flash trek? 17:00:49 <Alberth> flash is mostly web-app, right? 17:01:10 <MNIM> true, but I'm not going to use flash for coding. 17:01:24 <MNIM> if even it was only because I'm running linux. 17:01:43 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Juo] 17:01:55 <Alberth> gnu has made an open flash thingie, no idea how it is called 17:02:13 <Alberth> VB is dead if you want cross-platform 17:02:28 <Alberth> so that leaves you python and C/C++ :) 17:02:29 <planetmaker> flash sucks big time for performance 17:02:39 <MNIM> that too :/ 17:02:45 <planetmaker> There's a project which just did finish an entire game in html5 or so 17:02:48 <planetmaker> don't remember the name 17:03:00 * planetmaker has flash disabled by default 17:03:16 <Alberth> I don't even have flash installed :) 17:03:26 <MNIM> html5 sounds interesting, but Im not sure if it's very suitable for game engines. 17:03:44 <MNIM> so C++ it is then. 17:03:45 <MNIM> hmmmmh. 17:03:55 <Alberth> you could start in python 17:04:16 <Alberth> and make C/C++ extension modules at the time you need more speed 17:04:35 <Alberth> or more likely, cython 17:04:55 <MNIM> well, but am i not still stuck with requiring python to be DL'd? 17:05:08 <Alberth> duh :) 17:05:19 <MNIM> well yeah. 17:05:26 <Alberth> but modern linuces have it installed by default 17:05:35 <Alberth> just the version is a bit of a problem 17:05:46 <MNIM> I know. 17:05:47 <Alberth> due to the switch to python 3 17:05:52 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:05:57 <MNIM> that's part of why I don't want that. 17:06:35 <MNIM> it would be nice if python allowed packaging itself within the program, so you wouldn't need a separate shared python install, with all it's issues. 17:07:01 <MNIM> sure, it'd make the package bigger, but far easier for the non-'nix geeks out there. :P 17:07:08 <Alberth> there are windows installer generators that do that afaik 17:07:25 <MNIM> ohhh. really? 17:07:30 <Alberth> (but I never tried them, wrong platform for me :) ) 17:07:45 * MNIM dualboots. 17:08:20 * MNIM would tripleboot, even, if somebody provided me with a suitable macbook to destroy and abuse. :P 17:08:31 <Alberth> and there is py2exe, but no idea what that does exactly 17:08:52 <MNIM> well, not necessarily. I kinda hate mac osx with a passion. 17:09:14 <MNIM> my dad bought a mac to make life simpler, but instead he asks me even more to help him with it. 17:09:40 <MNIM> at least I knew my way round a dows pc, but a mac? 17:10:03 <Alberth> I know the problem :) 17:10:39 <MNIM> oh well. 17:10:56 <MNIM> I offered my dad a buntu livecd, 17:11:09 <MNIM> let's see if he uses it. 17:11:23 <planetmaker> oh, it's time for a "this system is best" or "mac sucks" 17:11:28 <MNIM> though I kindof feel like "OMYGODWHATHAVEIDONEWEAREDOOMED" gut feeling. :P 17:11:33 <MNIM> no it ain't. 17:12:39 <MNIM> hmmmh. 17:12:45 <MNIM> time to open up synaptic 17:16:40 * MNIM installs codelight 17:17:27 <MNIM> lite, actually. :P 17:19:55 <MNIM> But first, I need to eat. coding on an empty stomach is no business. 17:20:10 <MNIM> and perhaps a drink or two too. :D 17:20:34 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 17:27:52 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:33:15 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:33:47 *** glx is now known as Guest2780 17:33:47 *** glx_ [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:e1b4:3d58:6a77:ff91] has joined #openttd 17:33:47 *** glx_ is now known as glx 17:33:51 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:35:11 *** andythenorth [~Andy@46.208.232.218] has joined #openttd 17:35:12 <Belugas> a drink and two 17:35:17 <Belugas> makes it 12 drinks! 17:36:08 <andythenorth> bonsoir 17:37:12 <supermop> i'll take one of those 12 17:37:47 <planetmaker> hi andythenorth 17:39:35 *** Guest2780 [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:e1b4:3d58:6a77:ff91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:40:27 <andythenorth> hola planetmaker 17:40:44 <andythenorth> I have done forum bad again :P 17:41:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22674 /trunk/src/lang/danish.txt: 17:41:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:41:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: danish - 5 changes by NeoNmaN 17:42:24 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db18411.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:44:40 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:48:08 <planetmaker> what did you do andythenorth? FISH thread? That's not even starting to be bad ;-) 17:48:56 <andythenorth> being grumpy on forums is maybe childish 17:49:00 <andythenorth> maybe 17:51:04 <Alberth> instead of a grumpy reply, maybe better do not reply 17:51:06 <Alberth> maybe 17:51:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@46.208.232.218] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@46.208.232.218] has joined #openttd 17:52:24 <Alberth> phew :) 17:52:51 <Alberth> but this one is ok I think 17:57:35 *** keky___ [~stefan@p5098b65a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:05:14 <MNIM> bah, there was no drinkable beer to go with noodles in the house. 18:06:30 <Chris_Booth> beer! 18:06:53 <__ln__> you like mixing noodles and beer? 18:07:07 <Chris_Booth> __ln__: beer mixes with anything 18:07:57 <MNIM> exactly. 18:08:16 <MNIM> well, I meant mainly like european drinks to accompany the meal. 18:08:19 <MNIM> beer, wine, etc. 18:08:49 <MNIM> noodles are best accompanied by dark (and sweet) beers 18:09:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i never mix beer and food... 18:15:24 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@80.187.194.20] has joined #openttd 18:20:00 *** devilsadvocate_ is now known as devilsadvocate 18:23:49 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 18:28:58 * MNIM reads up on c++ 18:33:03 <SpComb> it's terrible 18:33:46 <MNIM> hmmmh. 18:34:13 <MNIM> I like my programming languages to be readable like normal english. 18:34:23 <MNIM> ! is NOT readable like normal english. >.> 18:35:11 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host242-94-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:35:17 <Wolf01> evenink 18:35:23 <Alberth> MNIM: you're spoiled :p 18:35:30 <Alberth> evenink Wolf01 18:36:11 <MNIM> No alberth 18:36:39 <MNIM> I'm not that much of a coder. I can do logic, but I prefer my logic to be in english. 18:36:51 <MNIM> or dutch even, but not in ! and || and && 18:37:17 <SpComb> you get used to it, it's hardly the worst part 18:37:37 <MNIM> mweh. what is? 18:37:59 <Alberth> I was trying to say there are very few languages that use those keywords 18:39:45 <SpComb> stuff like `friend std::ostream& operator<< <> (std::ostream& o, const Foo<T>& x);` 18:40:16 <valhallasw> SpComb: no, that's not that bad. The compiler errors you get because you forget a <. Those are bad. 18:40:27 <MNIM> well that's just sloppyness. 18:40:38 <Alberth> oh, templated operator overloading, nice 18:40:55 <MNIM> even *I* know not to be sloppy when coding. I mean, that is something for being ADD 18:40:55 <SpComb> Alberth: as external *friend* functions 18:41:12 <SpComb> MNIM: no it isn't, that example is straight from the C++ FAQ 18:41:30 <MNIM> well, sloppyness of course is extremely common 18:41:47 <MNIM> and in general the first thing to blame when code goes wrong. :P 18:42:08 <Alberth> SpComb: yeah, does not make sense, but for equality functions, I think it does make more sense than making it part of one of them, for example 18:42:56 <Alberth> although you should be able to decide equality on public data values of an object :p 18:43:33 <MNIM> hmmmh. 18:43:50 <MNIM> C++ has no boolean variable type? 18:43:55 <flitz> bool 18:44:12 <flitz> but its stored in a byte 18:44:19 <MNIM> hmmmh. 18:44:30 <MNIM> then why did I miss it's introduction. 18:44:43 <SpComb> Alberth: std::ostream operators like that is has to be defined externally 18:45:09 <SpComb> best thing is, you can write, like, `friend QDataStream & operator>><> (QDataStream &in, FooClass<FooType> &collection);` 18:45:10 <MNIM> it listed char, int and float, but no bool 18:45:14 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:25 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:45:30 <MNIM> http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial/lesson1.html 18:45:33 <MNIM> no bool to be found 18:45:47 <Alberth> you have a bad tutorial, I'd say 18:46:04 * MNIM points at the above link, is using that 18:48:42 <MNIM> do you have a better suggestion? 18:49:09 <flitz> there is no notion of the list of primitive types in this example being complete, though 18:49:52 <flitz> just go on with it, can't be too bad, just because they didn't mention bool ;) 18:50:30 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:51:05 <LordAro> MNIM: http://www2.research.att.com/~bs/3rd.html me and Alberth (at least) like it :) 18:51:17 <Alberth> SpComb good point 18:53:45 <Alberth> MNIM: lesson 2 states that 0 and 1 are booleans, which is simply false. 18:54:34 <MNIM> ahah. see, my gut still hasn't left me. 18:54:35 <Alberth> MNIM: A. !( 1 || 0 ) ANSWER: 0 18:55:27 <Alberth> also, lesson 1 does cout<<"foo" and lesson 2 does if ( a == b) ... extremely inconsistent 18:56:07 <MNIM> hmmmh. 18:56:29 <Alberth> MNIM: It looks like a C manual which they 'upgraded' to C++ by fixing a few examples 18:56:30 <MNIM> I take it that that book you posted is only available in print. 18:58:04 <LordAro> dunno, search brings up this: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&sqi=2&ved=0CEgQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fciteseerx.ist.psu.edu%2Fviewdoc%2Fdownload%3Bjsessionid%3D4BEB827CEE34E2D93E0614E0BD9EC497%3Fdoi%3D10.1.1.84.5446%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf&rct=j&q=the%20c%2B%2B%20programming%20language&ei=wdIlTvn4MdGIhQfLw-DsCQ&usg=AFQjCNFHRnH-cH9hZOgk5jCDtL5JXR4w1g&sig2=npcuhPIWAfuidl-Mu1z0AA (soz 18:58:14 <LordAro> for huge url) 18:58:57 <Chris_Booth> LordAro: ever thought about using tiny url? 18:59:08 <LordAro> cba :p 19:00:04 <Alberth> haha, yeah, let's do C str functions, instead of std::string :p 19:01:52 <Rubidium> hmm... bools are bytes? 19:03:14 * Rubidium wonders how long I have to look to find proof that's not the case 19:03:14 <MNIM> bah, why the fuck do people still use serif fonds to type something? 19:03:34 <MNIM> they should be killed by repeatedly stabbing them in the eye with a hot knife. 19:03:39 <valhallasw> ... 19:03:45 <valhallasw> fundamentalistic attitude there. 19:03:51 * Rubidium only uses fonds for cooking 19:03:57 <MNIM> *fonts 19:03:58 <MNIM> lol 19:04:13 <SpComb> struct { unsigned x : 1; } 19:04:20 <planetmaker> hm... yummy :-) 19:04:23 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 19:04:49 <Rubidium> in any case, serif fonts have proven to be easiest legible (on paper) 19:05:02 <MNIM> I get fundamentalistic when I need to take in large amounts of data. 19:05:24 <valhallasw> well, then why don't you change the font to a sans-serif font 19:05:27 <Rubidium> although sans serif ones are on screen, IIRC Verdana or so was best at one point 19:07:00 <MNIM> valhallasw: in a pdf? 19:07:13 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 19:07:17 <MNIM> it's probably possible, but I have found no easy way as of yet 19:07:24 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:25 <andythenorth> read it with google :P 19:07:30 <Rubidium> pdf2html 19:07:55 <MNIM> ewww, google. 19:07:57 <Rubidium> configure $browser to use sans serif font for serif and disable the style sheet 19:08:07 <valhallasw> MNIM: well, if it's a pdf it makes sense they use a serif font 19:08:13 <valhallasw> because if it's a pdf, you should print it 19:08:18 <MNIM> lol 19:08:33 <MNIM> people still print shit when it's not necessary for legal purposes? 19:08:53 <valhallasw> paper is awesome 19:08:58 <Rubidium> oh you don't want to know 19:09:05 <Alberth> oh sure, as you can put many pages next to each other, and make notes on them 19:09:06 <MNIM> I mean, I only ever do shit on paper because it needs to be on paper and signed for legal worth 19:09:59 <andythenorth> paper has many uses 19:10:07 <flitz> reading in bed 19:11:29 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:12:39 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@80.187.194.20] has joined #openttd 19:14:28 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest2795 19:14:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@46.208.232.218] has joined #openttd 19:14:29 *** Guest2795 [~Andy@46.208.232.218] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:08 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:16:54 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 28*0.87 19:16:54 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 24.36 19:17:22 <MNIM> gek. 19:17:24 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@80.187.194.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:17:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@46.208.232.218] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@46.208.232.218] has joined #openttd 19:21:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i did not choose his name ;) 19:21:58 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 27.5*0.87 19:21:58 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 23.925 19:22:04 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 17.5*0.87 19:22:05 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 15.225 19:22:15 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 10*0.87 19:22:15 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 8.7 19:22:23 <MNIM> hehehe 19:22:45 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i should be able to calculate that in my head :p 19:24:09 <MNIM> the latter one? jeaaaa 19:24:12 <MNIM> on a sidenote 19:24:26 <MNIM> things like that is why I've got a hotkey for my calculator 19:24:28 <MNIM> in fact 19:24:50 <MNIM> one on my screen, and one behind my keyboard 19:25:13 <MNIM> <3 my trusty casio CFX-9850GC plus 19:26:19 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 19:27:27 <valhalla1w> pah, graphic calculators 19:27:42 <valhalla1w> haven't touched mine in... 4 years or so 19:27:46 <MNIM> I love that thing. 19:27:47 <valhalla1w> maybe even five 19:27:57 <valhalla1w> it's completely useless for real math 19:28:18 <MNIM> well, that's what paper is for. 19:28:32 <MNIM> as for simply calculating shit, graphic calculators rule 19:28:50 <MNIM> and, to be realistic, that's all I ever hope to do 19:29:47 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.68] has joined #openttd 19:29:55 * valhalla1w likes his HP-41CV for calculations 19:30:09 <valhalla1w> also: my head 19:30:10 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-40-12.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:30:24 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.68] has quit [] 19:30:31 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-075-244-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:32:22 <MNIM> well, my head is no good for numbers. 19:32:26 <MNIM> horrible, in fact 19:34:00 <valhalla1w> practising helps :-) 19:34:40 <MNIM> I know. 19:34:50 <MNIM> I finished high school three years ago. 19:34:58 <MNIM> since then, no maths whatsoever 19:35:08 <MNIM> no abstract maths, at least 19:37:05 <MNIM> thanks LordAro! 19:38:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i was good in calculating 19:38:16 <Eddi|zuHause> until we got real maths around the 8th grade :p 19:38:30 <MNIM> lol 19:38:34 <MNIM> hmmmmh. 19:38:38 <frosch123> who needs real math? 19:38:51 <MNIM> how does C++ does XOR? 19:38:55 <Eddi|zuHause> people who get bored easily :p 19:39:00 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: ^ 19:39:10 <Eddi|zuHause> (i think) 19:39:32 <frosch123> i don't think realism adds anything to math 19:39:37 <valhalla1w> frosch123: depends what you call 'real' math 19:39:53 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i didn't say "realistic" maths :p 19:40:16 <frosch123> valhalla1w: hint, at least two involved in this discussion have studied math :p 19:40:54 <flitz> I think mathemeticians don't calculate all that much anymore 19:41:17 <Rubidium> ofcourse they don't 19:41:20 <frosch123> yup, they let calculate 19:41:26 <Eddi|zuHause> flitz: not anything in complexity beyond 3+5 ;) 19:41:42 <Rubidium> they leave it to maple, matlab and the likes ;) 19:41:52 <Eddi|zuHause> or DorpsGek :p 19:42:44 <Rubidium> sadly enough DorpsGek doesn't solve equations for you 19:42:52 <flitz> I caught a couple of math semesters, we didn't calculate very much :) 19:43:04 <andythenorth> don't mathematicians spend most of their time inventing new dimensions? 19:43:05 <flitz> but we got advised to program in Fortran 19:43:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i kinda abused the maple bot too much... the guy kinda left :p 19:43:41 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: mathematicians don't spend thoughts on such trivialities 19:44:04 <valhalla1w> they rather spend their time on coloring many-to-many relationships 19:44:10 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you do it for arbitrary number of dimensions and then every dimension you can think of is a trivial special case ;) 19:44:22 <frosch123> mathematic is about the stuff which would hold if the axiom of choice would hold 19:44:44 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you assume the axiom of choice does not hold :p 19:45:02 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest2800 19:45:03 *** andythenorth [~Andy@46.208.232.218] has joined #openttd 19:45:27 *** Guest2800 [~Andy@46.208.232.218] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:28 <TrueBrain> typical .. an email address only used with SixXS, and I receive spam on it ... I think your email address is nowhere safe anymore :( 19:45:46 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: how can you assume that anyone thinks it would hold 19:46:03 <frosch123> but you can research nevertheless what it would imply if it would hold 19:46:09 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker/Ammler: how's the email-notification-on-commit coming along? 19:46:26 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, but it's only half the math :p 19:46:29 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: both hold, probably not in the same universe though ;) 19:47:38 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-107-122-248.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: flitz] 19:48:02 <valhalla1w> 'list coloring of complete bipartite graphs' 19:48:03 * valhalla1w shudders 19:48:41 <frosch123> node coloring of bipartite graphs? isn't that kind of boring? 19:49:15 <valhalla1w> frosch123: list coloring (at least, I hope that's the correct english term) 19:49:42 <frosch123> no idea what a list is, i know node/vertex, and edges 19:50:32 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 19:50:40 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i'm fairly sure node-colouring can be used to define that a graph is bipartite ;) 19:50:52 <valhalla1w> frosch123: from what I understood from the text -- I'm a physicist, and not a mathematician, so I don't understand all terse formulations that well -- it's a about coloring nodes with a fixed list of colors per node 19:51:30 <frosch123> multiple colours per node? 19:51:36 <frosch123> never heard about that 19:51:41 <valhalla1w> well 19:51:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i think he means the algorithm how to get to a colouring 19:51:51 <valhalla1w> instead of having a fixed set of colors to choose from 19:52:01 <valhalla1w> each node gets its own set 19:53:21 * MNIM sighs 19:53:23 <valhalla1w> then the question is: how long should these sets be to make sure every node can be colored 19:55:13 <valhalla1w> http://www.physics.leidenuniv.nl/eureka/pdf-magazines/eureka32.pdf pps 6-9, but it's in dutch. 19:55:30 <Ammler> [21:49] <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker/Ammler: how's the email-notification-on-commit coming along? <-- it needs hacking of notify extension, not sure, if I want that 19:55:57 <Ammler> but of course, patches are welcome :-) 19:56:28 <frosch123> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_coloring <- ok, never did that :) 19:57:17 <planetmaker> valhalla1w: but the only really interesting colouring schemes are for two or three dimensions... and 2D is solved, thus trivial ;-) 19:57:46 <frosch123> planetmaker: it is only solved for planar stuff 19:57:55 <frosch123> and there is tons of non-planar stuff 19:58:54 <planetmaker> ok, I see that not every 2D object is topolocially equivalent to a(n infinite) plane. But how many options are there? 19:59:16 <planetmaker> the moebius band certainly counts in this respect as infinite plane, too 19:59:30 <planetmaker> and it surely works for a torus (donut) as well 19:59:48 <planetmaker> (their surfaces that is) 20:00:01 * LordAro 's head hurts 20:00:11 <frosch123> planarity is at primary a thing about non-overlapping edges, isn't it? 20:00:26 <LordAro> and i'm taking maths + further maths a level :L 20:01:03 <planetmaker> frosch123: maybe, I'm not too sure about these things :-) 20:01:58 <MNIM> hmmmmh. 20:02:08 <frosch123> well, i guess if you want to draw it on some surface you can add enough "henkel" to it, so a graph becomes planar 20:02:08 <MNIM> Im starting to have doubts about C++ 20:02:39 <frosch123> MNIM: just because something is popular and most used does not mean it is good 20:02:55 <frosch123> it only means that a majority was too lazy to learn something better 20:03:08 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5A82.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:03:12 <valhalla1w> MNIM: what do you want to do? 20:04:17 <MNIM> well, Im not sure if I can explain it neatly in text, but Ill try. 20:04:44 * andythenorth failed further maths A level 20:04:48 <andythenorth> many years ago 20:05:08 <MNIM> have you ever seen/played flashtrek? It's a 2d rts game (in flash, duh) 20:05:25 <MNIM> Im looking to create something similar (NOT IN FLASH) 20:06:19 <andythenorth> why not in Flash? 20:06:28 <andythenorth> seems like a good technology for 2d games 20:06:34 <MNIM> because I tried that already. :P 20:06:48 <MNIM> besides that, I want it to be far, far more flexible. 20:06:56 <MNIM> modular, mostly. 20:07:12 *** Juo_ [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:07:30 <planetmaker> http://html5.tmcnet.com/topics/html5/articles/195262-resortico-social-networking-game-relies-html5-instead-flash.htm 20:07:52 <andythenorth> HTML 5 Is Not a Thing 20:08:14 <MNIM> with the possibility of just going "hey fuck that 2d shit with pngs and all, let's just make 3d models" one day and actually just needing to replace graphicscode.something in the game's folder structure 20:08:52 <andythenorth> modularity is, mostly, over-rated 20:08:57 <andythenorth> it leads to Never Shipping 20:09:03 <MNIM> lol 20:09:18 <MNIM> or to eternal betas 20:09:31 <andythenorth> but your architecture diagram will be beautiful 20:09:37 <MNIM> to be honest, I think Ill be content with an eternal beta. :P 20:09:44 <andythenorth> and people will go 'oooh' about what they might be able to do in future :P 20:09:45 <MNIM> Ill draw a diagram, actually 20:10:34 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:10:34 *** Juo_ is now known as Juo 20:10:41 <andythenorth> modularity costs ~ £250,000 at UK coding salaries 20:11:10 <MNIM> Im unpaid either way :P 20:15:39 <andythenorth> FIRS fruit plantation is 5,400 lines of nml :o 20:16:02 <planetmaker> :-) 20:16:03 <planetmaker> so far 20:16:21 <planetmaker> I'm sure we can template that down to far less. Eventually 20:16:28 <planetmaker> Not today though anymore 20:16:32 <andythenorth> is it worth it though? 20:16:34 <andythenorth> the code works 20:16:39 <andythenorth> might never need to be maintained 20:16:50 <andythenorth> refactor-as-you-go might not apply? 20:17:28 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:17:51 <planetmaker> andythenorth: sure. But... most of it is the slope awareness afaik 20:17:57 <planetmaker> which is well worth templating anyway 20:18:00 <planetmaker> for various industries 20:18:05 <andythenorth> slope + climate yes 20:18:29 <andythenorth> can probably resolve to much less using advanced action 2 layout 20:18:36 <planetmaker> ^^ 20:18:41 <andythenorth> not sure if the time is well spent though :P 20:18:42 <andythenorth> also 20:18:54 <andythenorth> I've split all the industries I can be bothered with out of god object 20:19:06 <andythenorth> if 'someone' could be bothered to do the rest...then god object is gone :) 20:19:13 <planetmaker> can be bothered with? What about the others then? 20:19:45 <andythenorth> they're redefinitions of TTD industries, and I can't figure out where the code starts / ends 20:19:50 <andythenorth> mostly oil industries I think 20:20:07 <andythenorth> only 3,600 lines left to do :) 20:20:51 <supermop_> god object? 20:21:09 <andythenorth> look it up :) 20:22:31 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:25:16 <frosch123> night 20:25:20 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d008825.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:10 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 20:26:13 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 20:27:50 <MNIM> oh wait. 20:28:10 <MNIM> I was almost giving you a structure chart in my unresized drawing resolution. 20:28:31 <MNIM> that's a bit much 20:29:16 <MNIM> http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/structure%20chart.png 20:31:55 <MNIM> please excuse the drawing-board quality, but I find that way works the fast when you already have a pen in hand anyway 20:34:45 <MNIM> any ideas> 20:34:46 <MNIM> ? 20:35:12 <valhalla1w> first reaction: you're combining two issse in one drawing 20:35:31 <MNIM> Im not drawing issues in the first place. 20:35:47 <valhalla1w> main menu / game options / game / pause menu is the user 'workflow' 20:35:57 <MNIM> it's not workflow 20:36:00 <MNIM> it's the modules. 20:36:44 <valhalla1w> then what do your arrows mean? 20:36:58 <MNIM> relations. 'takes data from', mostly 20:37:56 <MNIM> for example, the game module would calculate the player's position on the map and send it to the graphics module which would draw it 20:38:23 <valhalla1w> right 20:38:32 <valhalla1w> and the user has no input? 20:38:36 <valhalla1w> only navigation? 20:38:40 <planetmaker> good night 20:38:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@46.208.232.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:39:13 <MNIM> navigation refers to a seperate module which operates a star chart where you can navigate between systems. 20:39:26 <valhalla1w> yes 20:39:33 <valhalla1w> this is my point exactly 20:39:41 <MNIM> the 'game' module itself is a different theater, with a ship controlled with arrow keys around a solar system 20:39:43 <valhalla1w> main menu / options / game / navigation / pause menu 20:39:52 <valhalla1w> are *screens* 20:40:05 <valhalla1w> or, well, main menu / options / vis / nav / pause 20:40:39 <MNIM> pretty much. you could describe the game/vis relation as backend/frontend 20:40:42 <valhalla1w> the entire section on simulating / object data / loading and saving games is a completely different set of code 20:42:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@46.208.232.218] has joined #openttd 20:43:10 <MNIM> it would be nice if visualization was a readymade module so I don't have to bother about making that, as it's one of the least transparent things of coding to me 20:57:33 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 21:00:29 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@80.187.194.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:04:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@46.208.232.218] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:09:23 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Juo] 21:25:03 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: make clean && make doesn't re-execute generate.py 21:26:23 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:28:17 *** gcdoc [~gcdoc@187.10.7.157] has joined #openttd 21:30:16 * MNIM looks at fife 21:30:24 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-075-244-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:31:29 *** gcdoc [~gcdoc@187.10.7.157] has left #openttd [] 21:32:55 <Wolf01> 'night 21:33:04 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host242-94-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:35:54 <LordAro> night all 21:35:54 *** Pixa [~Pixa@85.210.74.125] has joined #openttd 21:48:23 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 21:48:59 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 21:57:21 <MNIM> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORX 21:57:24 <MNIM> hmmmm 22:01:46 <MNIM> interesting. 22:02:02 <MNIM> very, very interesting. 22:03:47 *** Pixa [~Pixa@85.210.74.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:14:34 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db18411.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 22:26:55 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:44 *** jrib [~jrib@pool-96-233-22-172.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 22:30:56 <jrib> hi, I just discovered this awesome game! 22:40:23 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: The Third Tiberium War - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 22:40:47 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DAE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:57 <Eddi|zuHause> bah... the google help is useless... i can find out there's a function "TEXT(number, format)" but it offers absolutely no description on what "format" should look like 22:49:53 *** jrib [~jrib@pool-96-233-22-172.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 22:56:10 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 22:57:33 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:13:08 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-027-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 23:41:11 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-40-12.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:49:13 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5A82.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own]