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00:04:09 *** Guest1264 [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912]] 00:04:33 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 00:05:01 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:07:40 <andythenorth> good night 00:07:40 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 00:15:16 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:16:52 <Rhamphoryncus> TheBrick: bogosort is only O(â) worst case. Average case isn't quite as bad. 00:17:18 <TheBrick> ah yeah 00:17:25 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 00:17:41 <TheBrick> while (); is that on average though 00:17:42 <__ln__> worst case is not denoted by O() 00:17:56 <TheBrick> well, type me an omega 00:18:52 <__ln__> Ω or Ï? 00:19:11 <TheBrick> eh, well I'm not fluent in this shit anymore, it's been quite a whie 00:19:14 <TheBrick> which one is the right one? 00:19:25 <__ln__> i don't remember 00:19:25 <TheBrick> theta was average case 00:19:51 <TheBrick> what bound is O then? 00:19:52 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-169-1-73.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:19:56 <TheBrick> I thought it was worst case 00:20:06 <TheBrick> time to look that shit up 00:21:13 <TheBrick> where's wikipedia for the mathematically declined? 00:22:36 <TheBrick> well whatever 00:23:03 <Rhamphoryncus> We're programmers, we don't need to use it "correctly". It's like the english language: we stole the word for ourselves. 00:23:47 <__ln__> i'll check the Book... to see if it possibly is the worst case 00:24:09 <TheBrick> I think I get it again though. O is worst case, omega is best case, theta is when both have equal complexities 00:24:35 <TheBrick> that's probably the undergraduate level understanding of it 00:25:18 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 00:25:47 <TheBrick> omega is apparently not that clear cut 00:27:03 *** zsoltbp [5400faf8@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 00:31:16 <__ln__> i have the definition right here 00:32:05 <__ln__> O(g(n)) = { f(n) : there exist positive constants c and n0 such that 0 <= f(n) <= cg(n) for all n >= n0 }. 00:32:23 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 00:33:41 <TheBrick> this is not the time for maths 00:33:53 <TheBrick> it's time for... sleep 00:33:57 <__ln__> O() is an asymptotic upper bound, the Book says. Ω is asymptotic lower bound. 00:34:14 <TheBrick> so it's worse than the worst case? 00:34:49 <TheBrick> if you consider infinities not to exist 00:35:41 <__ln__> worse than worse sounds bad 00:36:11 <TheBrick> well if you're an optimist; it's never quite as bad as it says 00:36:44 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-102-164.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 00:54:54 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-195.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:55:06 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-195.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 01:00:59 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 01:04:36 *** TheBrick [~chatzilla@g187024.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912]] 01:10:49 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 01:22:25 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has joined #openttd 01:35:26 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:35:28 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d823a56.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 02:03:41 *** tensai_cirno [~cirno@77.232.15.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:17:54 *** kais58 [~kais58@cpc2-cwma8-2-0-cust293.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:21:42 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.2.105] has joined #openttd 02:30:36 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-113-57.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:41:57 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:07:52 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.2.105] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:08:32 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.2.105] has joined #openttd 03:14:32 *** NullByte [~NullByte@c-24-20-61-147.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 03:45:17 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:47:15 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.2.105] has joined #openttd 03:52:22 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-104.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 03:52:43 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.2.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:58:02 <Eddi|zuHause> did the forum just die? 03:58:31 <NullByte> not from my perspective 03:59:47 <Eddi|zuHause> hm. works again 04:14:47 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 04:29:40 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> if 8 "distance"-hours equals 1 "travel"-hour, what average speed does this make? 04:41:42 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.32.29.223] has joined #openttd 04:43:49 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, if you assume 2 "distance"-hours = 1 mile, and 1 mile = 7500m (german "metric" mile), then this yields 30km/h 04:48:55 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.2.105] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:49:35 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.2.105] has joined #openttd 04:52:55 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 05:05:51 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.2.105] has joined #openttd 05:08:30 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.2.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:23:24 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9f0:ff7e:7396:e2ed] has quit [Quit: bye] 05:27:51 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.32.29.223] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 05:36:48 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.2.105] has joined #openttd 05:41:53 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.2.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:05:15 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-113-218.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 06:05:18 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 06:11:01 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-90-13.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:18:20 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@178.248.252.194] has joined #openttd 06:39:39 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@178.248.252.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:44:57 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74314.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 06:45:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74896.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:50:51 *** NullByte [~NullByte@c-24-20-61-147.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:02:50 *** NullByte [~Daniel@c-24-20-61-147.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 07:04:29 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:13:25 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.2.105] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:14:03 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.2.105] has joined #openttd 07:21:45 *** NullByte [~Daniel@c-24-20-61-147.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #openttd [] 07:27:31 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:27:39 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.2.105] has joined #openttd 07:29:56 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.211.23] has joined #openttd 07:32:15 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.2.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:41:57 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:49:05 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.211.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:00:36 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 08:07:09 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 08:17:36 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: ttw.sla-company.net - free first person shooter based of c&c 3] 08:18:15 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:20:27 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 08:34:04 *** tty234_ [telex@anapnea.net] has joined #openttd 08:35:33 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AC34.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:35:55 *** tty234 [telex@anapnea.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:45:22 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:48:07 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 08:53:27 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 09:03:07 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e06d2be.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:04:53 <andythenorth> moin 09:06:15 <dihedral> oi 09:06:18 <Rhamphoryncus> ahoy 09:07:36 <dihedral> o dear lord, what a terrible backlog :-P 09:09:10 <Rhamphoryncus> You just can't shut me up! 09:11:38 <Elukka> so many sprites to draw 09:12:58 <Rhamphoryncus> so many codes to write 09:14:34 <Elukka> many a thing 09:14:58 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 09:15:42 <Elukka> 24 sprite angles and asymmetric wagons ;_; 09:18:12 <Eddi|zuHause> just make the symmetric wagons, and add the braker's cab later? 09:23:34 <Rhamphoryncus> Eddi|zuHause: On further thought you were right about not checking vehicles still loading at the previous station 09:24:54 <andythenorth> hmm 09:25:02 * andythenorth ponders 09:25:05 <Elukka> well, the wagon body is usually shorter at the end with the platform/cab 09:25:16 <andythenorth> can my python script import nmlc and build the grf? 09:25:18 <Elukka> on the next wagon i'm gonna see if i can get away with a symmetric one though 09:25:25 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@178.248.252.194] has joined #openttd 09:25:30 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@178.248.252.194] has left #openttd [] 09:27:26 *** tensai_cirno [~cirno@77.232.15.216] has joined #openttd 09:33:07 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:48:22 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:48:25 <andythenorth> hmm 09:48:33 <andythenorth> nmlc is not in my system path for modules 09:48:48 * andythenorth is just stabbing at this :P 09:51:56 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 10:01:33 <Rhamphoryncus> What the.. you can have a shared order list of only one vehicle? o.O 10:03:55 <andythenorth> pool of one 10:04:14 <andythenorth> shared order list is just a set 10:07:07 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.2.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:07:18 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.1.179] has joined #openttd 10:10:59 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:14:45 <Rhamphoryncus> Heh. Got some mysterious extra debugging prints. They were from the loadscreen game ;) 10:39:10 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:42:58 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111221202647]] 10:44:10 *** chester [~chester@95-25-155-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 10:45:47 <chester> hi all, do graphviz work in ottd wiki or what? 10:47:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:48:53 *** MINM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 10:51:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think anybody ever tried that yet 10:52:13 <Eddi|zuHause> probably you need to bug someone to enable an extension for that 10:53:44 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:55:14 <chester> it is ncluded 10:55:36 <chester> and Talk:Cargo has it 10:56:09 <Eddi|zuHause> right... problem solved then :( 10:56:11 <Eddi|zuHause> :) 10:56:16 <chester> but i cant make any other graph 10:57:02 <chester> furthermore when i change 1 letter in original one, it doesnt show 10:58:13 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it doesn't trigger generating the image? 10:58:32 <chester> how to make it show then 10:58:47 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, that is outside my area of expertise 10:59:11 <Eddi|zuHause> my "area of expertise" generally ends with "there exists a solution" :) 10:59:12 <chester> is there any flag or smth forcing rendering 11:00:21 <chester> -are you expert in SQL? -no -nevermind, wright 'expert in NoSQL' 11:01:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i try to avoid SQL as good as i can, but that's probably not what you mean :p 11:01:33 <chester> it was a citation from some comics 11:02:28 <chester> wikimedia says nothing abt this, i can only get graphs @my local pc 11:03:01 <chester> i dont even know which version is included there and options avail 11:11:13 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: ttw.sla-company.net - free first person shooter based of c&c 3] 11:42:48 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AC34.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:43:35 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AC34.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:44:30 * Rhamphoryncus ponders a helper function to make next_shared/previous_shared cyclic, so he can reorder, then make it acyclic again 11:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> don't you just need a flip() function? 11:50:07 <Eddi|zuHause> and add a NextSharedCyclic() and PrevSharedCyclic()? 11:50:40 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-113-57.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 11:51:37 <Rhamphoryncus> I was writing out all the branches for updating the previous/next/first/last pointers and it's ending up as 4 cases of 6 lines each. Plus a check that there's at least 3 vehicles to swap 11:54:56 <Rhamphoryncus> down to a total of 3 lines, plus a call to MakeCyclic/MakeAcyclic at the top and bottom of the function 11:55:51 <Rhamphoryncus> Actually, those helpers are only 2 lines each, plus 2 assertions. I could just as well merge them in. 11:56:29 <Eddi|zuHause> keep them separate and make them inline 11:56:45 <Rhamphoryncus> static inline void 11:56:57 <Eddi|zuHause> something like that, yes 11:57:00 <Rhamphoryncus> Now I just need to make C++ accept them :P 12:07:12 <Rhamphoryncus> ... I can't have a static inline method in a .cpp file and if I put it in the header I don't have the right other headers pulled in x_x 12:10:08 <Rhamphoryncus> nor can I include vehicle_base.h since it's already including order_base.h 12:12:16 <Eddi|zuHause> why shouldn't you have static inline function in the .cpp file? 12:13:07 <Eddi|zuHause> of course, "static" means something completely different inside a class 12:13:49 <Rhamphoryncus> static inline *functions* are fine. Methods it chokes on because they're not declared in the class 12:14:42 <Rhamphoryncus> interesting point though, I had blindly copied the static keyword in to the class for the declaration. When I later tried to move the whole definition there I removed it, but I never tried the declaration without it. 12:14:56 <Rhamphoryncus> Nope, that chokes too 12:15:27 <Rhamphoryncus> /home/rhamph/src/openttd/easyschedule.hg/src/order_cmd.cpp:523:42: error: cannot declare member function âvoid OrderList::MakeCyclic()â to have static linkage [-fpermissive] 12:15:51 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@178.248.252.194] has joined #openttd 12:22:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-169-180-203.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:37:52 <Rhamphoryncus> Looks like C++ won't do what I want. Either I use a private inline method or a static inline non-method 13:00:50 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.44.83] has joined #openttd 13:25:43 <dihedral> looks like you want to do something you should not want to do :-P or you are thinking too complicated 13:29:06 <Rhamphoryncus> It'd be good coding style in C. In C++ it seems to be "eh, don't bother" 13:29:29 <Eddi|zuHause> it's inherently difficult to make methods inline 13:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause> because they could be overridden and stuff 13:29:53 <Eddi|zuHause> so you need to make them private 13:30:17 <Rhamphoryncus> But there's two reasons for it in C: one is to avoid name conflicts, the other is actually be private. C++ doesn't seem to actually allow the latter :P 13:44:24 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:47:01 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@178.248.252.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:00:23 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... can we have a string-code "{SPRITE}"? 14:02:07 <andythenorth> where is it needed? 14:02:31 * andythenorth explores os.subprocess as a way to call nmlc from a python script 14:02:47 <Eddi|zuHause> can't you "import nmlc"? 14:04:37 <andythenorth> probably, if I set my search path 14:05:13 <andythenorth> I guess it's not currently in my python module search paths 14:05:31 <Eddi|zuHause> sys.path.append(blah)? 14:05:37 <andythenorth> let's see 14:06:18 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:07:06 <andythenorth> apparently not 14:07:18 <andythenorth> nmlc is aliased from /opt/local/bin/ 14:07:28 <andythenorth> I've added sys.path.append('/opt/local/bin/') 14:07:32 <andythenorth> but nmlc is not found 14:08:11 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it'll only search for .py files 14:08:20 <Eddi|zuHause> you'll need to import main.py 14:08:56 <andythenorth> k 14:10:10 <Eddi|zuHause> actually, if you "make install"-ed it, you should be able to do "from nml import main" 14:10:40 <andythenorth> I didn't 14:10:52 <andythenorth> I don't trust things too well where I have to sudo 14:10:57 <andythenorth> makes me itch every time 14:11:06 <andythenorth> I've aliased it currently 14:11:14 <andythenorth> if I set the actual path to nml src, I can import 14:11:26 <Eddi|zuHause> well, then you have to set the path 14:11:30 <andythenorth> that's kind of local to me though :P 14:11:32 <andythenorth> bad pattern 14:14:41 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:16:13 <Eddi|zuHause> after you "from nml import main"-ed, you'll probably want to run "main.main(args)" 14:17:10 <andythenorth> what should args be? :) 14:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> an array of what you would give after nmlc 14:19:16 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 14:19:40 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you'd write "nmlc --nfo cets.nfo cets.nml" then you'd call "main.main(['--nfo','cets.nfo','cets.nml'])" 14:20:51 <Eddi|zuHause> like "cmdline.split(' ')[1:]" (roughly) 14:21:55 <Eddi|zuHause> if you'd call nmlc like usual, it would pass "argv[1:]" to main() 14:28:16 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 78/16 14:28:16 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 4.875 14:28:28 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 78/3 14:28:28 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 26 14:47:59 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.44.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:49:34 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.44.83] has joined #openttd 14:56:51 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.44.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56:58 <Belugas> hello 15:00:58 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:01:01 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:e8ac:5296:6042:37e7] has joined #openttd 15:01:04 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 15:02:03 *** bondmain_ [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:31 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.44.83] has joined #openttd 15:02:42 *** bondau [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has joined #openttd 15:09:49 <Elukka> ugh. there was a very nice company color replacement grf+patch somewhere in the forums recently but i can't for the life of me find it now 15:11:50 *** expekt [58588ee0@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 15:12:33 <expekt> Hi! I have some problems with Saved Game Manager. I cant open any save gamed? 15:14:44 *** bondau [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:15:02 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a saved game manager? 15:15:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and what error message do you get? 15:15:14 *** bondmain_ [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has joined #openttd 15:17:48 <expekt> http://www.transporttycoon.net/ttsgm 15:18:14 <expekt> the program dosen't find the saved game 15:18:39 <expekt> it it also the same problem with TTD Alter and TTDX Editor 15:19:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think they were everintended to work with openttd savegames 15:22:09 <expekt> aha:) 15:23:00 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest1329 15:23:01 *** andythenorth_ [~Andy@host86-169-180-203.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:23:01 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 15:23:14 *** Guest1329 [~Andy@host86-169-180-203.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:35:22 <andythenorth> hmm 15:35:45 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... do articulated parts issue effect vehicles? 15:35:53 <andythenorth> not for RVs 15:36:18 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i do remember it steaming from 3 places in the original dummy vehicle 15:36:24 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: can you figure out passing args to the python script from makefile? Based on reading tutorials I have http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1021/ 15:36:33 <andythenorth> but it seems to be failing 15:37:09 <Eddi|zuHause> wrong place 15:37:15 <andythenorth> gah 15:37:16 <andythenorth> :) 15:37:23 <Eddi|zuHause> must be behind the "python script.py" line 15:37:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the "GENERATE=" line is only the dependencies 15:38:48 <Eddi|zuHause> also make sure the makefile doesn't try to expand the ${} sections 15:38:57 <andythenorth> :Q seems to stop that 15:39:22 <andythenorth> maybe 15:40:07 <andythenorth> hmm 15:41:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean more like enclose it in '' or so 15:41:30 * andythenorth has been trying to figure out what I need to google for this 15:42:00 <andythenorth> search strings like 'pass command line args from makefile' get me 10 million results about passing command line args *to* makefile :P 15:43:35 <andythenorth> ok 15:43:36 <andythenorth> '' works 15:53:22 * andythenorth explores http://www.a-a-p.org/ 15:54:00 <andythenorth> doesn't look very maintained though 15:55:01 <Elukka> hmm. 15:55:09 <Elukka> i've been using long vehicles v4 since forever 15:55:43 <Elukka> are there any alternative road vehicle sets that are maybe a bit more useful than vanilla vehicles and a bit more real looking than them or grvts? 15:57:00 <andythenorth> highway robbery 15:57:32 <andythenorth> Elukka: can you draw trucks? 15:57:38 <Elukka> posssssibly but i already have way too many wagons to draw and i'm getting them done way too slowly :P 15:57:43 <Eddi|zuHause> he must first draw wagons :p 15:58:23 <andythenorth> in that case he can stop playing the game anyway 15:58:25 <andythenorth> and draw 15:58:39 <Elukka> :( 15:58:40 * andythenorth reads docs for codecs 15:58:51 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone split off the horse carriages from eGRVTS yet? 15:58:59 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: presumably to avoid unicode sadface? ^^ 15:59:17 <Elukka> huh. 15:59:18 <Elukka> hungarian set 15:59:19 <andythenorth> also writing streams and such 15:59:20 <Elukka> looks very nice 15:59:25 <Elukka> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=809044 15:59:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: germanrv is nice, but unfortunately the trucks aren't done yet 16:00:20 <Elukka> aw, and hungarian set only starts in 1950 16:01:27 <Eddi|zuHause> why did you link that thread? now i'm getting a petert flashback... 16:01:51 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you never hang out in #openttdcoop.devzone? 16:02:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, why would i? 16:02:13 <andythenorth> you see the CETS commits somewhere else? or you don't care? 16:02:14 *** bondmain_ [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:02:16 <Elukka> petert? 16:02:41 <Elukka> is there a juicy story i don't know 16:03:07 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i wanted the commits per email, but apparently nobody figured that out yet... Ammler? 16:03:46 <andythenorth> rss to email? 16:04:03 <andythenorth> http://www.feedmyinbox.com/ 16:04:11 <andythenorth> or your mail reader can read rss in some cases 16:04:17 <Eddi|zuHause> # sie mÃŒssen erst den nippel durch die lasche ziehn 16:04:41 <Eddi|zuHause> # und an der kleinen kurbel ganz nach oben drehn 16:04:55 <Eddi|zuHause> # dann erscheint sofort ein pfeil, da drÃŒcken sie dann drauf 16:05:09 <Eddi|zuHause> # und dann, geht die tube auf... 16:05:14 <andythenorth> definitely english :P 16:07:13 <Eddi|zuHause> according to mr-english-only, it's ok if it's quotes or music :p# 16:09:30 <andythenorth> or if it's spanish 16:09:39 <andythenorth> or python, or c++ or nfo or nml 16:09:40 <andythenorth> :P 16:12:21 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, it's a song about how things are totally overcomplicated 16:13:04 <andythenorth> first [blah blah] put the small thing [blah] etc 16:13:22 <andythenorth> I think I've murdered cpp in BANDIT 16:13:26 <andythenorth> not sure how to test 16:14:23 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 265*255 16:14:23 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 67575 16:14:31 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 256*255 16:14:31 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 65280 16:14:35 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 16*255 16:14:36 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 4080 16:14:55 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 256*255/74 16:14:55 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 882.162162162 16:14:58 <Ammler> andythenorth: nobody wants commits per mail ;-) 16:15:48 * Eddi|zuHause misses a right-click->slap button... 16:16:43 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 16:20:03 <andythenorth> grr 16:20:14 <andythenorth> forums [code] block strips \ from \n 16:20:41 <Eddi|zuHause> tried \? 16:21:59 <andythenorth> works 16:22:00 <andythenorth> thanks 16:22:47 <Eddi|zuHause> both the '' and the \ are reflex-solutions i always try before asking anybody else for help :) 16:23:09 <Ammler> someone already "played" with phase on hg 2.1? 16:23:57 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.1.179] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:24:15 * andythenorth wonders how to patch makefile to avoid cpp 16:29:06 *** expekt [58588ee0@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 16:32:11 *** tensai_cirno [~cirno@77.232.15.216] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:43:28 *** Twofish [~Twofish@box80-64-205-146.static.sdsl.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:43:29 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:47:20 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: ttw.sla-company.net - free first person shooter based of c&c 3] 16:53:39 *** MINM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:59:03 <chester> tesr 17:03:13 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.44.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:13:29 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-78-36.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 17:16:38 <Ammler> andythenorth: CC="cc.py" 17:17:01 <andythenorth> where? 17:17:04 <Ammler> :-) 17:18:06 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 17:19:18 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-113-218.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:26:34 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 17:32:27 <andythenorth> meh 17:32:36 * andythenorth needs a basic valid NML project 17:32:40 <andythenorth> for example purposes 17:34:21 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: ttw.sla-company.net - free first person shooter based of c&c 3] 17:37:24 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-169-1-73.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 17:39:08 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 17:44:04 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:51:22 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 18:12:43 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e06d2be.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 18:22:41 <andythenorth> do I need to call close() on a a file I've opened as read only (python) 18:23:47 <Mazur> In the interest of clean programming, I'd say yes. 18:23:58 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 18:27:20 <SpComb> andythenorth: you can also do `with open(...) as myfile: ...` 18:27:51 <SpComb> and if you do something like `data = open(...).read()` there's not really any need to explicitly close() it 18:28:07 <SpComb> but if you do `self.thatfile = open(..)`, then yes, do explicitly close it and clear the reference 18:28:39 <SpComb> python refcounting guarantees you that the file object will be closed once you drop all references to it 18:30:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd have some reservations towards relying on refcounting 18:36:32 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:39:01 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe5ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:41:43 <andythenorth> quak 18:41:46 <andythenorth> quik 18:42:30 <frosch123> moin 18:42:31 <Eddi|zuHause> you're a guinea pig now? 18:46:05 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:57:05 *** itp [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:02:07 <andythenorth> writing tutorials is surprisingly hard work 19:02:12 <andythenorth> even when they're not that good 19:02:18 * andythenorth could never be a teacher 19:02:35 <Terkhen> hello 19:02:49 <andythenorth> bonjour 19:03:22 * andythenorth looks for a collaborator :P 19:03:51 <andythenorth> Terkhen: how is your python? 19:05:23 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:05:44 * andythenorth needs someone who knows some NML but limited python 19:05:59 <Terkhen> worse than my free time :P 19:06:06 <andythenorth> :D 19:06:08 <Rhamphoryncus> "with open(...) as myfile:" is definitely the preferred way as it guarantees it's closed, but otherwise it's not worth the trouble unless you're doing it in a loop and something like java might run out of file handles before it triggers a collection 19:06:18 <Rhamphoryncus> Or you're on windows and file locks prevent other work 19:06:24 <Terkhen> right now I have to fix FS#5039 19:06:56 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 19:07:54 <andythenorth> :o 19:09:31 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-169-1-73.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:05 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:23:06 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:23:09 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 19:34:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23875 /trunk/src/lang/ (dutch.txt french.txt lithuanian.txt): 19:34:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 19:34:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 3 changes by Parody 19:34:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 53 changes by OliTTD 19:34:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 21 changes by Stabilitronas 19:49:30 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:01 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:58:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.183.226] has joined #openttd 19:59:22 <Terkhen> even with the fix, industry subsidies are quite rare 20:01:17 <andythenorth> NewSubsidy framework! 20:01:22 <andythenorth> newgrf subsidies! 20:01:24 <andythenorth> NoGo! 20:01:27 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:01:29 <andythenorth> all of them! 20:01:51 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host101-141-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:02:15 <Alberth> new, better, plus! 20:02:19 <Alberth> hi Wolf01 20:02:38 <Wolf01> moin 20:02:52 <Terkhen> yeah, I suppose that NoGo is the real fix for that :) 20:03:12 <Alberth> Terkhen: not enough opportunities at the right distance? 20:04:02 <Alberth> ie compared with towns, industries are quite picky about who they want to share cargo with :) 20:04:12 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6CC19.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:05:09 *** itp [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 20:06:00 <Terkhen> yes :) 20:06:20 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:39 *** itp [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:09:50 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:53 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 20:10:20 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd 20:14:05 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-52-99.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:14:28 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:14:49 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 20:16:39 *** itp [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 20:18:01 *** Jensen1986 [026f53f8@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:18:42 <Jensen1986> Can someone please help me with a problem? 20:20:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: terkhen * r23876 /trunk/src/subsidy.cpp: -Fix (r23408) [FS#5039]: Generate industry subsidies again. (Emmeran) 20:20:18 <Terkhen> @get -1 20:20:18 <DorpsGek> Terkhen: English only 20:20:21 <Terkhen> @get -2 20:20:21 <DorpsGek> Terkhen: 'Latest' is not a valid version, ever 20:20:23 <Terkhen> bah 20:20:27 <Terkhen> Jensen1986: just ask your question 20:20:51 <Jensen1986> how do i take control of an AI company in TTD? 20:21:05 <Terkhen> activate cheats and move yourself to the AI company 20:21:18 <Terkhen> that can be done in OpenTTD, no clue about TTD 20:21:24 <Jensen1986> not by buying their shares. I mean to take control and rearrange busses ect. 20:22:08 <Alberth> In OpenTTD, like Terkhen says 20:22:35 <Jensen1986> The difference between OpenTTD and TTD is? 20:22:48 <Alberth> different games? 20:22:52 <Rhamphoryncus> One has been worked on this millenium? ;) 20:23:08 <Alberth> 25 years? 20:23:17 * andythenorth ponders 20:23:26 <Rhamphoryncus> Alberth: eh? 20:23:41 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: wasn't it 1984? 20:23:54 <Rhamphoryncus> I was including windows versions 20:23:55 <Jensen1986> I'm using TTDX editor... Is that the same? 20:24:34 <Rhamphoryncus> And as long as it hasn't been touched in 2001 or later my statement is right 20:24:35 <Alberth> Jensen1986: not even close 20:24:46 * Alberth believes Rhamphoryncus 20:25:17 <Alberth> Jensen1986: both games may look the same, but internally they are totally different 20:25:24 <Jensen1986> hehe. You wouldn't believe me if i told you ive been playing this game for 10 years or so with my knowledge of it 20:25:45 <Alberth> yeah, it's addictive :) 20:26:06 <Alberth> wait until you try OpenTTD, and find all the nice additions that were made ;) 20:26:24 <Jensen1986> I dont want to start a new game over again :( 20:26:53 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:26:59 <Alberth> OpenTTD is quite compatible, I would not be surprised if your game loaded 20:27:43 <Jensen1986> really? If i try loading it and it doesnt work will the saved game still work in TTD? 20:28:13 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:24 <Alberth> I would expect so, unless you save a new version over it 20:28:34 <Rhamphoryncus> Alberth: wikipedia says 94 and deluxe in 95 20:28:34 <Alberth> but make a copy beforehand, just to be safe 20:28:59 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: Ah, I was only 10 years off :D Thanks for looking it up 20:29:28 <planetmaker> evening 20:29:34 * Alberth wonders what game was in 1984 then :p 20:29:38 <Alberth> evenink planetmaker 20:29:51 <planetmaker> Jensen1986: you'll surely want to keep a copy of the original savegame, don't you? 20:30:25 <Jensen1986> I better 20:31:23 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 20:31:31 <Jensen1986> Can i change the same thing in OpenTT as with TTDX editor? 20:32:10 * andythenorth ponders a nap 20:32:55 <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Scenario_editor <-- that's what the wiki has on scenario editors, about 10 lines :p 20:34:26 <Alberth> but yes, I think you can. I have never done much with the editor though, but on general, OpenTTD is expanding on functionality, and very reluctant on throwing stuff out 20:36:34 *** itp [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:36:36 *** itp [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 20:36:40 <Jensen1986> nice. Gotta try that. I know this has been debated over and over. But why is it you cant have more than 4.3 billion in cash. Why dont the rewrite the game to 64 bit`? 20:37:19 <Alberth> it compiles and runs at 64bit 20:37:59 <Jensen1986> but you still cant have more than 4.3 billion? I thought it had something to do with that? 20:38:02 <Alberth> 'billion' is about 1,000,000,000 ? 20:38:28 <Alberth> oh, in that case, OpenTTD can do approximately: 20:38:33 <Alberth> @calc 2^60 20:38:33 <DorpsGek> Alberth: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number. 20:38:40 <Alberth> @calc 2**60 20:38:40 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 1152921504606846976 20:38:49 <Alberth> give or take a few bits :) 20:39:14 <Jensen1986> yes it is. so in OpenTT you can have much more money`? 20:39:45 <Alberth> it's OpenTTD (with a D at the end), but yeah 20:40:07 <Alberth> I never even got at 2**32 though 20:40:34 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:40:58 <Jensen1986> With my current game its not a problem. But one i used to play made me 3 billion a year. So i had to go to the edtitor and set my money to 0 in order to keep playing. 20:41:00 <Alberth> http://www.openttd.org/en/about <-- stuff that OpenTTD can do 20:41:43 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 20:42:00 <Alberth> @calc 1152921504606846976 / 3000000000 20:42:00 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 384307168.203 20:42:30 <Alberth> enough to keep playing for the 5,000,000 years that OpenTTD allows :p 20:42:49 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:43:13 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd 20:43:30 <Jensen1986> wow. I'll bet someone did. What a nerd:) 20:44:12 <Alberth> @calc 5000000 * 13 / 60 / 24 20:44:12 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 45138.8888889 20:44:17 <planetmaker> well. also then you can continue to play. Just the year won't advance ;-) 20:44:44 <Alberth> @calc 45138 / 365 20:44:44 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 123.665753425 20:44:57 <Alberth> kind of old nerd :p 20:44:59 <andythenorth> planetmaker: is it an easy change for me to disable cpp step of makefile? 20:45:04 <andythenorth> (to see what happens) 20:45:25 <Alberth> 'touch' the generated output file? 20:46:03 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:46:08 <Alberth> although 13 minutes is somewhat optimistic, in reality a game year takes a bit longer 20:46:11 <planetmaker> well... the dependency also relies on it. But you can edit-out that step. And you'll have to rewrite the rule for the nml file which uses cpp to generated it from the pnml file 20:46:30 <andythenorth> yup 20:46:37 <andythenorth> I should learn how to do that anyway 20:46:43 <andythenorth> it's good for me :P 20:46:47 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 20:46:48 <Alberth> make -n ? then copy/paste what you want to run 20:46:56 <Jensen1986> how long is a year in TTD ? 20:47:19 <planetmaker> ~calc 30 * 74 / 60 20:47:25 <planetmaker> @calc 30 * 74 / 60 20:47:25 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 37 20:47:28 <Alberth> I don't know about TTD 20:47:46 <Alberth> the number of ticks/day is probably different 20:47:47 <planetmaker> @calc 0.03 * 74 * 365 20:47:47 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 810.3 20:47:51 <planetmaker> @calc 0.03 * 74 * 365 / 60 20:47:51 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 13.505 20:47:57 <planetmaker> ^ minutes in OpenTTD 20:48:03 <planetmaker> TTD might be 10% faster 20:48:16 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-104.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 20:48:30 <Jensen1986> ok. But thanks for all your help. Gotta go. 20:51:06 * andythenorth adventures in makefile 20:51:09 <andythenorth> it's pretty impressive 20:51:58 *** Jensen1986 [026f53f8@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 20:54:51 <Alberth> You are at a rule that depends on another rule, what do you want to do? 21:01:44 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-017-244.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 21:09:20 <Alberth> planetmaker: how is the closebox X defined in big GUI? 21:09:20 <Alberth> In the code, it computes maxdim(GetStringBoundingBox(STR_BLACK_CROSS), GetStringBoundingBox(STR_SILVER_CROSS)); as size, while the sticky box does maxdim(GetSpriteSize(SPR_PIN_UP), GetSpriteSize(SPR_PIN_DOWN)); 21:09:20 <Alberth> It looks like the text-sizes are still not functioning 21:09:49 <Alberth> (while sprites do work) 21:10:58 <peter1138> i have a wip patch for all that stuff... 21:11:02 * Rubidium wonders what made Jensen think OpenTTD "only" supports 2**32 in money 21:11:15 <Alberth> he plays TTD ? 21:11:21 <peter1138> text-sizes are always based on the specified size, not the size of sprites 21:11:27 <Alberth> (and thinks both games are the same :) ) 21:11:42 <Rubidium> Alberth: in TTD it was 2**31 (you can have negative money as well) 21:12:40 <planetmaker> Alberth: it's a font sprite iirc 21:13:04 <planetmaker> the text size calculation might ignore the special chars 21:13:19 <planetmaker> and... tbh, Alberth, IMHO the X for windows should be a normal sprite, not a font sprite 21:13:25 <planetmaker> would make it much easier 21:13:25 <peter1138> it never calculates height 21:13:56 <Alberth> planetmaker: that also holds for the arrows imho 21:14:02 <peter1138> problem with making it a sprite is it has a shadow 21:14:13 <peter1138> and it is recoloured for the news window 21:14:20 <peter1138> however, i did make all the arrows sprites 21:14:33 <planetmaker> Alberth: maybe... but the funny thing is: it's not always broken. Like for the sprite picker (newgrf debug) 21:14:34 <peter1138> "i have a patch for that...." 21:14:56 <planetmaker> peter1138: the adv. settings currently look ugly with it 21:15:16 <peter1138> it's never "broken" 21:15:37 <peter1138> for the windows where it's different, it's always because they have other buttons as well 21:15:44 <peter1138> so not so "funny" 21:16:24 <Alberth> planetmaker: it has a sticky button 21:16:47 <Alberth> planetmaker: I removed the sticky button from the airport toolbar, and it failed 21:17:39 <Alberth> ie the big size of the sticky button forces the whole titlebar to be high 21:18:53 <Alberth> (mostly as someone made the X not larger than the pin :p ) 21:20:08 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.211.23] has joined #openttd 21:21:11 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:21:34 <planetmaker> :-) 21:27:32 *** tensai_cirno [~cirno@77.232.15.216] has joined #openttd 22:05:58 * andythenorth dismisses XML as a good data format :P 22:06:22 <Alberth> oh, for machines, it's very good :) 22:06:44 <Alberth> problem is that people think they are machines too :) 22:06:49 <Rubidium> for machines it's bad 22:06:56 <andythenorth> needless parsing 22:07:05 <andythenorth> machines like name / value pairs, without endless scaffolding :P 22:07:23 <Rhamphoryncus> How hard is it to add new windows and buttons and such? 22:07:29 <andythenorth> very very very hard 22:07:30 <andythenorth> for me 22:07:32 <Rubidium> for communication between independently developed systems that needs easy extensibility it's something else 22:08:05 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: you have a lot of experience in openttd innards? 22:08:13 <andythenorth> only the industry bits 22:08:16 <andythenorth> otherwise not 22:08:17 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: new windows (ie making a new unique combinations of buttons and such that fills a rectangle) not so difficult 22:08:30 <Rhamphoryncus> Alberth: *nods* 22:08:39 <andythenorth> XML as an input to newgrf templating would be bonkers 22:08:45 <andythenorth> I'd just end up templating it :P 22:08:52 <Alberth> making a new button itself is harder, internally lots of size computations are performed 22:09:13 <Rhamphoryncus> ahh 22:09:28 <Alberth> although for elementary things like a close box it is pretty simple too :) 22:09:39 <Alberth> as they have a fixed size :) 22:09:39 <Rhamphoryncus> So I have it in for myself 22:10:02 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus: how hard is it to solve \int_{-\infty}^\infty e^{-x^2} dx ? 22:10:04 * Rubidium smells somewhat of a desync 22:10:13 * andythenorth ponders JSON 22:10:27 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 22:10:32 <Rhamphoryncus> planetmaker: well that doesn't render in xchat, so I'd say pretty hard is a safe bet ;) 22:10:42 <planetmaker> it's very hard for most people, I assume. But a minority will find it easy. Maybe a majority here 22:10:45 <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: it renders nicely ;) 22:10:52 <Rubidium> and it's easy to solve 22:11:05 <Rubidium> if you know the right tools 22:11:22 * Rubidium points at tungsten 22:11:30 <Alberth> it looks like something that is most likely easy :) 22:11:30 <planetmaker> :-) 22:11:39 <Rhamphoryncus> related: loading old savegames is critical, but otherwise it is possible to change what gets saved? 22:12:03 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: that's what savegame versions are for :p 22:12:04 <planetmaker> that's what savegame versions are for. yes 22:12:16 <planetmaker> :-) 22:13:17 <Rhamphoryncus> I worry I'd have to overcome a lot of inertia if I overhaul how orders/timetables are managed, since there's so much history in ttd 22:14:12 <Alberth> oh, it's -(x^2) and not (-x)^2, that makes it much easier :) 22:15:01 <andythenorth> oh 22:15:06 <andythenorth> this could use an update :| http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Refittability 22:15:16 <Rubidium> oh come on... still not pasted in wolfram? 22:16:20 <Rhamphoryncus> Couldn't remember the name, heh 22:17:50 <Rubidium> it's easy to remember 22:18:16 <Rubidium> want to see the light? -> old lamps were made with tungsten aka wolfram 22:18:45 <planetmaker> Alberth: not really nicer. But more often used ;-) 22:18:47 <Rhamphoryncus> Oh is that what it's named after.. 22:20:34 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: what kind of new button do you have in mind? 22:20:49 <Rhamphoryncus> Alberth: all of them :P 22:20:53 <andythenorth> hmm interesting: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1022/ 22:21:01 <andythenorth> so why would that fail to return a result? 22:21:19 <andythenorth> or rather, why would that return 0xFF? 22:21:21 <Rhamphoryncus> I haven't fully decided yet. I've been playing with different approaches to maintaining a schedule 22:21:27 <planetmaker> 0xFF is no valid CB result, andy 22:21:31 <planetmaker> use the in-built constants 22:21:34 <andythenorth> oh 22:21:39 <andythenorth> wonder where I got that from :o 22:22:31 <planetmaker> like CB_FAILED 22:22:39 <Rhamphoryncus> But I need to handle the current timing in a different way, so I can easily compare across different points in the order list 22:22:46 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: with "button" I mean a really new type of button, like a maximize button or so. If you want variations of existing buttons (eg one with a different text), that's what I consider 'window' 22:23:07 <andythenorth> hmm 22:23:12 <andythenorth> also it's just bad logic no? 22:23:20 <andythenorth> a graphics chain should always end on graphics 22:23:30 <planetmaker> yes 22:23:37 <Rhamphoryncus> New elements might include a way to pick out delays with the mouse, rather than having to enter text for the number of days 22:23:45 <Rhamphoryncus> Mostly just window right now though 22:23:56 <andythenorth> but why would cargo_classes not return a result in range 0-255? 22:24:07 <Rubidium> you can already set the times without the keyboard 22:24:16 <Rubidium> (the physical keyboard that is) 22:24:22 <planetmaker> andythenorth: still, then return the default graphics 22:24:28 <andythenorth> I changed it 22:24:31 <andythenorth> just curious 22:24:38 <andythenorth> it's only happening for Wool cargo 22:24:40 <andythenorth> afaict 22:24:52 <andythenorth> wondered if the class bitmask was somehow odd? 22:25:02 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: click order, click change time, click... 22:25:22 <planetmaker> depends on what you want to check, andythenorth 22:25:30 <planetmaker> if you want to check PAX, rather use 22:25:41 <planetmaker> cargo_classes & bitmask(CC_PASSENGERS) 22:25:59 <planetmaker> and then check for 1 and 0 (as default) 22:26:03 <andythenorth> ok so that's the equivalent of an nfo mask? 22:26:08 <planetmaker> yes 22:26:14 <andythenorth> k 22:26:35 <planetmaker> it's simply how boolean logic works in... python 22:28:55 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@client-82-31-3-132.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:29:14 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-184-223.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 22:29:52 <andythenorth> if I want to check a range of classes, can I & with a list? :P 22:30:47 * andythenorth guesses not 22:31:02 <Rubidium> depends whether the classes are a bitmask or not 22:32:15 <Rubidium> a & b simply returns the intersection of the bits, so you can then relatively easy check whether no bits intersect, at least one bit intersects or all bits intersect 22:32:52 <Alberth> andythenorth: iirc 'bitmask' is a function that takes a list of bit numbers, and produces a mask 22:32:53 <Rubidium> (all set bits that is, of 'a' or 'b') 22:33:14 * andythenorth explores NML docs more 22:33:14 * andythenorth guesses that bitmask(list) might be the case 22:34:18 * Alberth wonders how to create a bitmask with a one-liner in Python 22:37:29 <andythenorth> Alberth: are you playing the one line python game? :P 22:37:29 <andythenorth> doesn't always end well 22:37:29 <andythenorth> "just because you could, doesn't mean you should" :) 22:37:55 <Alberth> at IRC, everything is allowed :p 22:38:12 <andythenorth> feel free then 22:38:45 <andythenorth> Alberth: try rewriting my build script in one line? 22:38:47 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:38:49 <andythenorth> probably possible 22:38:57 <andythenorth> might violate PEP 8 horribly :P 22:38:57 <Alberth> reduce(lambda x,y:x+y, [1 << n for n in bit_list], 0) 22:39:33 <Alberth> IRC line length is not sufficient :p 22:41:15 <Alberth> also I have not really looked at what you are writing, as it constantly says "skip this if you know it already" :) 22:41:28 <andythenorth> allowing for imports to be on another line, I think a grf can be templated and built with one line 22:41:28 <andythenorth> heh 22:41:30 <andythenorth> I keep trying not to do tutorial, then I do 22:41:57 <andythenorth> the actual build_script for BANDIT is here: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/repository/entry/src/build_bandit.py 22:42:21 <Rhamphoryncus> Alberth: is this something a set would solve? 22:43:43 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@client-82-31-3-132.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 22:44:30 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: 'this' ? 22:44:39 <Rhamphoryncus> bitmasks 22:44:53 <Rhamphoryncus> I don't fully understand the discussion so I'm just throwing that out there 22:45:13 <Alberth> bitmasks are sets in fact, conveniently stored in an integer 22:45:37 <Alberth> so computers can easily work with it, move it around, etc 22:46:18 <Rhamphoryncus> that I know 22:46:29 <Rhamphoryncus> But you're talking about how to do it in python 22:46:50 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe5ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:31 <Alberth> if you want to go to NFO, you eventually have to go to integer format anyway 22:47:53 <Alberth> besides, also in Python, integers are faster than generic sets of arbitrary objects 22:48:05 <Rhamphoryncus> of course 22:48:42 <Alberth> andythenorth: os.path.join" target="_blank">os.path.join" target="_blank">os.path.join" target="_blank">os.path.join(currentdir, "sprites/nml") ---> os.path.join" target="_blank">os.path.join" target="_blank">os.path.join" target="_blank">os.path.join(currentdir, "sprites", "nml") / placement is exactly what os.path.join" target="_blank">os.path.join" target="_blank">os.path.join" target="_blank">os.path.join is for :) 22:49:28 <andythenorth> I should replace those then? 22:49:44 <Alberth> if (len(sys.argv) > 1): <-- no parentheses around conditions, they are not needed 22:50:00 <andythenorth> oh yes 22:50:08 <andythenorth> I pasted that from an example :P 22:50:11 * andythenorth ducks blame 22:50:20 <andythenorth> is this ok? sys.path.append('sprites/nml') # add to the module search path 22:50:20 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-017-244.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 22:50:26 <andythenorth> seems to work 22:50:31 <Alberth> lines 25/27 have different indent than 30+ 22:50:50 <Alberth> it is however very much not recommended 22:50:55 <andythenorth> fixed 22:51:14 <Alberth> you should do it with PYTHONPATH outside the script 22:51:24 <andythenorth> I'm mixing 2s and 4s on spaces. dunno why 22:52:22 <andythenorth> PYTHONPATH -> command line args -m ? 22:52:27 <Alberth> python 2 or 3 ? 22:52:44 <andythenorth> 2.6.x for me 22:53:08 <Alberth> never used -m 22:53:15 <andythenorth> think I'm reading the docs wrong 22:53:33 <Alberth> class Trailer: <-- needs inheriting from object then class Trailer(object): 22:54:45 <Alberth> self.properties['refittable_classes'] = standard_class_refits['default']['allow'] <-- why not simple instance vars? self.refittable_classes = ... ? 22:55:23 <Alberth> # used for the purchase menu <-- triple-quoted doc-strings? 22:55:56 <andythenorth> doc-strings for defs? 22:55:58 <andythenorth> ok 22:56:13 * Alberth uses epydoc standard for that 22:56:27 <Alberth> usually the text is longer than the code :) 22:56:38 <andythenorth> I'll read epydoc 22:57:10 <andythenorth> why not simple instance vars? <- for convenience when using them in the template 22:57:20 <andythenorth> it (nearly) everything is in vehicle.properties, it's easier 22:57:24 <andythenorth> it / if /s 22:57:28 <Alberth> vehicles = [Truckid=i,properties=j for i,j in vehicles_dict.iteritems()] 22:57:50 <Alberth> oh missing parentheses with Truck, sorry 22:57:52 <andythenorth> oh the one line game :) 22:57:59 <andythenorth> ok 22:58:11 <Alberth> Truck(id=i,properties=j) 22:58:13 <andythenorth> let's use a comprehension :P 22:58:17 <andythenorth> they always make me feel smart 22:58:32 <Alberth> imho these cases make sense 22:58:37 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 22:59:01 <andythenorth> yup 22:59:48 <andythenorth> class Trailer: <-- needs inheriting from object then class Trailer(object) <- this is the only thing I didn't understand so far...? 23:00:32 <Alberth> you could make constants TRUCK_CAPACITY = 'truck_capacity' and use the upper-case constant everywhere 23:00:47 <andythenorth> I could 23:00:54 <andythenorth> it's worth considering 23:01:30 <Alberth> class Trailer: is an old-style class, obsolete since 2.0 iirc class Trailer(object): is a new-style class. It behaves nicer 23:01:36 <andythenorth> ok 23:01:47 <andythenorth> so it's just explicit what it inherits from? 23:02:10 <Alberth> no, it is really different, old-style don't inherit from object at all 23:02:16 <andythenorth> ok 23:03:31 <Alberth> in python3, 'object' inheriting is default I think, so there it is "classTrailer:" again :) (but you need to check that, I am not sure) 23:03:37 <andythenorth> k 23:05:02 <andythenorth> thanks 23:05:11 <Alberth> your paths at the end also have /-es in them, which should be composed by os.path.join instead (so win* users also have good paths) 23:05:57 <Alberth> yw, if you want I can take another look at it this weekend or so; this was a quick one 23:06:02 <Alberth> just let me knwo 23:06:05 <Alberth> *kniow 23:06:07 <Alberth> *know 23:06:09 <Rhamphoryncus> Augh, FormatString is recursive? And not just one way but multiple ways? I can already hear the headache sneaking up on me 23:06:09 <andythenorth> ok thanks 23:06:14 <Alberth> time to go to bed :) 23:07:21 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: just make nice strings like in src/lang/english.txt :) 23:07:36 <Alberth> no need to dig in the details of rendering characters 23:07:41 <Alberth> good night all 23:08:02 <Rhamphoryncus> I was just exploring how the API works. "a calls b, b calls c, c, calls d, d calls b, b calls b..." 23:08:17 <Rhamphoryncus> Actually that skips several steps I don't understand yet :P 23:08:42 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: ttw.sla-company.net - free first person shooter based of c&c 3] 23:08:51 <Alberth> which 'the' API? I am sure there are more than one :) 23:08:54 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 23:10:30 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 23:11:03 <andythenorth> good night 23:11:43 * andythenorth just thought of something truly horrible 23:12:02 <andythenorth> write globals to a file while running the script, then have the templates import them :o 23:12:06 <Terkhen> going to sleep is not that horrible 23:12:07 <andythenorth> that's disgusting 23:12:31 <andythenorth> :) 23:12:50 * andythenorth will go to sleep and stop thinking of python abuses 23:12:55 <andythenorth> bye 23:12:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-169-180-203.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 23:15:57 <Rhamphoryncus> If you're using exec you can inject them directly, no need for an external file 23:19:00 <valhallasw> why use exec if you have globals()? 23:19:30 <valhallasw> and locals(), but in any case - you have a dict representing all local/global variables 23:22:39 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:24:00 <planetmaker> g'night 23:25:08 <Wolf01> 'night 23:25:11 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host101-141-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:25:37 *** chester [~chester@95-25-155-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:57 <Rhamphoryncus> exec lets you load the templates as a separate file 23:26:27 <Terkhen> good night 23:28:54 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.211.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:39:04 <Rhamphoryncus> Which "the" API would be whatever timetable_gui.cpp is using.. DrawString, SetDParam, that stuff 23:41:03 *** Progman_ [~progman@p57A193F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:46:37 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AC34.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:46:43 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman