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Mail support@oftc.net if you have any questions (2012-06-11 08:00:42)] 08:04:22 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-113-135.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 08:28:02 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:28:29 *** Hazzard [~7b76ac7f@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 08:52:39 <Xaroth> Rubidium: crazy man :P 08:53:36 <planetmaker> who's not crazy? :-P 08:53:55 <Xaroth> depends on who you ask 08:53:56 <cornishpasty> Not me! 08:54:04 * Xaroth eats cornishpasty 08:54:09 <Xaroth> hmmmm... pasty 08:54:19 * cornishpasty is eaten. 08:54:57 <Xaroth> planetmaker: I must show my admiration for the team for being able to remain somewhat sane with all those trolls.... 08:55:12 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-104-48.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:00:37 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 09:11:58 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-37-203.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:14:15 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:43:35 *** Firartix [~artixds@2a01:e35:2ee1:7050:762f:68ff:fea5:ba0] has joined #openttd 09:55:18 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-62-115.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:56:35 * andythenorth ponders this silly Bananas debate 09:56:58 <planetmaker> have a banana instead ;-) Or maybe an orange 09:57:38 <andythenorth> apples :P 09:58:31 <andythenorth> honestly I would rather see Simuscape thrive and not have these issues 09:58:53 <andythenorth> I've read the posts, and there are numerous people who are genuinely upset and hurt by what goes on at tt-forums 09:59:08 <andythenorth> including some that might be surprising 09:59:40 <andythenorth> if two communities are what is needed, I would rather see them rub along, with civil interchange 10:01:32 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 10:02:24 <FLHerne> What is the alleged problem with tt-forums, anyway? 10:03:08 <FLHerne> i.e. why the Simuscape community #split off 10:09:55 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 10:17:43 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:19:28 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:19:28 *** Hazzard [~7b76ac7f@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:35:19 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196-210-208-84.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 10:40:22 <andythenorth> FLHerne: the forums are, for some, quite a robust environment 10:40:54 <andythenorth> it can be difficult for some to enjoy that 10:41:33 <andythenorth> there is a small irony - some of those who make it a difficult environment are also people who have moved, in some cases dramatically, to Simuscape 10:42:05 <andythenorth> which makes me wonder if Simuscape is really going to pan out to be the friendly, supportive environment they're hoping for, or wether it ultimately implodes in drama 10:42:21 <andythenorth> but I wish it success 10:42:36 <andythenorth> I would rather see multiple thriving tt communities, and no sense of tribalism 11:05:23 <NGC3982> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Wolfgang_von_Goethe[3~ 11:05:29 <NGC3982> oops. 11:08:04 <cornishpasty> NGC3982: I agree 11:13:42 <NGC3982> a wonderful writer 11:13:49 <NGC3982> but so very, very german 11:13:59 <NGC3982> describes love as a tool 12:03:59 *** Firartix [~artixds@2a01:e35:2ee1:7050:762f:68ff:fea5:ba0] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:04:23 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196-210-208-84.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 12:04:52 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196-210-208-84.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has left #openttd [] 12:04:53 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.140.153] has joined #openttd 12:08:23 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196-210-208-84.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:31:16 *** Tvel [~tvel@95.87.193.3] has joined #openttd 13:04:57 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:bd1e:711:935a:e17d] has joined #openttd 13:05:00 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:06:54 *** mal2 [~mal2@z529a.pia.fu-berlin.de] has joined #openttd 13:08:59 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 13:09:30 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196-210-208-84.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 13:47:25 <telanus> http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/551650_322800904466938_917080354_n.jpg 13:47:55 <TrueBrain> user joins. user shows facebook url with random picture; do I dare to open? 13:47:57 <TrueBrain> :D 13:50:06 <telanus> :D 13:50:23 <telanus> it's just a Nestle Truck :D 13:50:45 <TrueBrain> pfew :) 13:51:44 <telanus> ThHink I saw the shortest Abnormal load truck in a few years today. 13:52:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:53:33 <telanus> It was about 15-17m, but was carrying a truck on it's load deck, and that truck was carrying a small 1.5ton truck 13:53:45 <TrueBrain> haha, lolz 13:53:47 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:28 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 13:59:51 *** cornishpasty [~users.158@brockwell6.irccloud.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:42 *** cornishpasty [~users.158@brockwell6.irccloud.com] has joined #openttd 14:05:07 *** Tvel [~tvel@95.87.193.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:05:07 *** Knogle [~knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:53 *** Knogle [~knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 14:10:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.171.32] has joined #openttd 14:11:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i think one of my HDDs is displaying aging symptoms 14:14:20 <Eddi|zuHause> now... what does /mnt/disk3 map to wrt physical disks? 14:14:23 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.140.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:15:15 <Eddi|zuHause> mount says /dev/mapper/_dev_sdc4 14:15:21 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if that helps :p 14:15:58 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently that is a symlink to /dev/dm-0 14:16:26 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 14:16:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.167.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:24:16 <Belugas> hello 14:30:43 <FLHerne> hello 14:31:03 <FLHerne> Aargh...kpovmodeler.org doesn't even exist now :-( 14:31:20 * FLHerne looks at a guinea pig :P 14:34:30 *** guru3 [~guru3@stgt-5f72950d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:37:08 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has joined #openttd 14:37:09 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:41:13 *** guru3_ [~guru3@stgt-5f72bb80.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:41:27 <Belugas> hello 14:42:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:45:12 <Rubidium> bonjour Belugas 14:45:45 <Belugas> Bonjour a toi aussi, Rubidium :) 14:45:46 <TrueBrain> ugh, go visit eachother or something 14:45:47 <TrueBrain> sjees 14:46:10 * Belugas kisses TrueBrain 14:46:13 <Belugas> JEALOUS! 14:46:19 <andythenorth> bonjour TrueBrain 14:46:23 <TrueBrain> yes, I am 14:47:09 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 14:47:55 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: it's always fun when design suggestions for a system are made by people who have not looked at what the system is / does :) 14:48:07 <andythenorth> as the owner of a software company, it's one of my favourite things to deal with :) 14:48:11 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: it is .... special, so to say :) 14:48:19 <TrueBrain> I mean, at least login once? 14:48:21 <TrueBrain> and look? 14:48:22 <TrueBrain> but meh :) 14:48:29 <TrueBrain> I am already happy they are replying in a constructive way 14:48:48 <TrueBrain> and, with good ideas between them :) 14:49:43 <andythenorth> yes 14:51:07 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: you may or may not hate lean stuff, but anyway, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genchi_Genbutsu 14:51:28 <andythenorth> as a manager / company owner I try to always remember it 14:52:31 <andythenorth> maybe I should make a system diagram of bananas? 14:52:58 <TrueBrain> for our customers (I work for a software company / ISP), we have apiece of software which requires them to be on the site they report issues with 14:53:01 <TrueBrain> including screenshots etc 14:53:04 <TrueBrain> it works wonders 14:53:40 <andythenorth> :) 14:53:57 <TrueBrain> reminds me, what do you think of the speed of this: http://www-test.openttd.org/ 14:54:00 <andythenorth> so I missed the ToS on signup, I guess my eyes aren't working early in the morning 14:54:18 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: perceptually fine, do you want an actual time to load report? 14:54:26 <TrueBrain> no :P 14:54:32 <TrueBrain> after first load, it is client-cached 14:54:45 <TrueBrain> and it is almost finished! \o/ 14:55:32 <FLHerne> What's that supposed to look like? 14:55:44 <TrueBrain> like www.openttd.org :P 14:55:54 <TrueBrain> only much faster / better 14:55:57 <TrueBrain> and new menu :P 14:56:00 <andythenorth> the selected state is the same on both navbars, I find that a bit strange to see personally 14:56:13 <TrueBrain> what would you suggest? 14:56:15 <TrueBrain> other colours? 14:56:17 <andythenorth> green for second 14:56:27 <andythenorth> green and orange together is a bit naughty, but fits the theme 14:56:32 <TrueBrain> are you in any means to make such an image, by any chance? :P 14:56:35 <andythenorth> or just invert the grey 14:56:52 <andythenorth> right now I'm holding one baby and preventing the toddler doing damage to self / house / lego trains 14:56:58 <andythenorth> if you're here later, I can do it 14:57:04 <TrueBrain> would be nice :D 14:57:11 <TrueBrain> I suck at that greatly 14:57:15 <andythenorth> a variation on the over state would do, just a bit lighter 14:57:16 <TrueBrain> Osai used to do it for me :D 14:57:19 <FLHerne> Should it be "Test ð€¢ Message Second line Test ð€¢ Message 3rd"? Or am I supposed to be seeing newlines there? 14:57:19 <andythenorth> I can do it 14:57:27 <andythenorth> I'm not a great designer, but I can make internets 14:57:33 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: no; you don't have a utf-8 charset loaded :P 14:57:48 <TrueBrain> some weird chinese symbols are there 14:57:51 <TrueBrain> owh, the lines you mean 14:57:57 <TrueBrain> yeah, there is no \n -> <br> yet 14:57:58 *** cachila [55e4d9d7@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:57:59 <TrueBrain> good point :D 14:58:15 <FLHerne> Oh, ok. And I should install some fonts :D 14:58:23 <TrueBrain> almost nobody has it :P 14:58:28 <TrueBrain> it is a very odd char :P 14:58:37 <FLHerne> What's it for then? 14:58:41 <TrueBrain> to test UTF-8 14:58:44 <TrueBrain> I had it installed 14:58:45 <TrueBrain> so ... 14:58:51 <TrueBrain> but as it turns out, I am alone there :D 14:59:05 *** cachila [55e4d9d7@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [] 14:59:25 <TrueBrain> have you seen the serverlist filter? :P 14:59:32 <TrueBrain> it needs a nice CSS, but it does work nicely :D 14:59:51 *** mal2 [~mal2@z529a.pia.fu-berlin.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:00:21 <FLHerne> Will Bananas have the second bar as well? 15:00:26 <TrueBrain> yup 15:00:37 <FLHerne> :-) 15:00:39 <TrueBrain> check /en/bananas/ 15:00:48 <TrueBrain> most important reason for this rewrite btw, is language support 15:01:27 *** keoz [~keikoz@141.2.96.19] has joined #openttd 15:02:39 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: when do we get to rebuild the bananas frontend ? :P 15:03:06 <TrueBrain> after that? I dunno :P 15:03:21 <andythenorth> I am away most of June 15:03:25 <andythenorth> after that? 15:03:37 <TrueBrain> I told in dev-channel already, if all it takes for SAC to upload his files to BaNaNaS that it looks better, it is a small effort to at least do that .. as it is heavily overdue anyway :P 15:03:39 <TrueBrain> sure 15:04:20 <andythenorth> I have one patch on it that Rubidiu* committed last year 15:04:33 <andythenorth> but otherwise lack of dev environment blocks me :P 15:04:37 <TrueBrain> hehe 15:04:55 <andythenorth> django I don't know, but looks trivial, similar to the other python frameworks 15:04:59 <TrueBrain> depending how this talk with SAC et al goes, we might want to revisit how BaNaNaS works 15:05:06 <andythenorth> maybe indeed 15:05:23 <TrueBrain> if they really want deleting of old versions, we are on an impas in these regards 15:05:30 <TrueBrain> and we might want to lean more towards grfcrawler 15:05:34 <TrueBrain> no clue how, or what, or ... 15:05:43 <andythenorth> I am fine with it 15:06:02 <TrueBrain> I don't really like it, as I like the openess BaNaNaS offers, but we will have to see 15:06:07 <andythenorth> are you familiar with saying "that's a version [n] feature"? 15:06:12 <TrueBrain> SAC appears very willing to solve the issue, and I am sure others are too, so 15:06:18 <andythenorth> [we do it with software customers] 15:06:20 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: it is what I tell my boss all the time :P 15:06:28 <TrueBrain> yeah, for 1.1 .. which never happens 15:06:29 <TrueBrain> :P 15:06:38 <andythenorth> meanwhile we're shipping version n-1 15:06:45 <andythenorth> often the n-1 features ar 15:06:53 <andythenorth> turn out to be good enough 15:06:59 <TrueBrain> yup 15:07:09 <TrueBrain> and sometimes customers don't know what they really want 15:07:15 <TrueBrain> they think they want n, but really, they don't 15:08:06 <andythenorth> often our customers specify n before using our app or any competitors 15:08:13 <TrueBrain> hehe 15:08:18 <andythenorth> when they use n-1 they're happy enough 15:08:45 <TrueBrain> back to BaNaNaS, a common complaints is the many many types we have 15:08:51 <TrueBrain> and the clouded overview it presents new users with 15:08:58 <andythenorth> hmm 15:09:00 <TrueBrain> we sort by upload or download count 15:09:02 <TrueBrain> which is silly 15:09:06 <andythenorth> yes 15:09:08 <TrueBrain> I always wanted to make some kind of review board 15:09:12 <TrueBrain> where you rate uploads 15:09:21 <TrueBrain> it might be a good time to add that 15:09:22 <andythenorth> moi aussi 15:09:33 <TrueBrain> too often the question is asked: what grfs are good to play with 15:09:36 <TrueBrain> there is n o answer of course 15:09:39 <andythenorth> star ratings are very problematic btw 15:09:53 <andythenorth> allow sharing of presets? 15:09:57 <andythenorth> or groups? 15:10:06 <TrueBrain> but they need some kind of rating too 15:10:09 <TrueBrain> or description 15:10:14 <TrueBrain> or indication of playtype 15:10:24 <TrueBrain> like I understood Pikka's set introduces a different economy 15:10:27 <andythenorth> ratings is a messy social problem :) 15:10:27 <TrueBrain> which for me is really interesting 15:10:32 <TrueBrain> but by accident I found that out 15:10:39 <TrueBrain> yeah, so we need something ... more clever 15:11:19 <andythenorth> I want 'actual time played with' 15:11:28 <andythenorth> but that needs an illegal 'phone home' feature :P 15:11:29 <TrueBrain> interesting idea/concept 15:11:47 <TrueBrain> well .. 15:11:51 <TrueBrain> we known which grfs run on servers 15:11:56 <TrueBrain> that can be an indication, although an unfair one 15:12:12 <andythenorth> :) 15:12:32 <andythenorth> reviewers? 15:12:34 <andythenorth> editors? 15:12:35 <TrueBrain> what I see in logs, that atm people just "Select All" + "Download" 15:12:51 <TrueBrain> that for sure doesn't work .. but changing that ingame ... no clue how 15:13:09 <TrueBrain> I had some weird ideas like: inclient you can login, then it syncs your files with the server 15:13:13 <TrueBrain> (server = openttd.org) 15:13:20 <TrueBrain> at openttd.org you can select which files you want for your game 15:13:25 <TrueBrain> basically, prepare your whole game 15:13:27 <TrueBrain> a bit 'cloud' idea 15:14:08 <andythenorth> so you could choose other people's pre-prepared games? 15:14:10 <TrueBrain> as ingame it will never be easy to select specific grfs I guess :P 15:14:12 <TrueBrain> yes 15:14:21 <TrueBrain> for all I care, with all the settings included 15:14:27 <TrueBrain> but at least with the grfs 15:14:29 <andythenorth> 'add to my game' 15:14:34 <andythenorth> 'download my game' 15:14:51 <TrueBrain> I also have been pondering about ideas like: upload your savegame into "the cloud" 15:14:53 <TrueBrain> or sync 15:14:54 <TrueBrain> what ever 15:14:57 <TrueBrain> so you can play where-ever 15:15:01 <TrueBrain> I often had that need with OpenTTD :P 15:15:06 <TrueBrain> had to put it on an USB-stick 15:15:09 <andythenorth> configure online, download: http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/download.html 15:15:09 <andythenorth> ] 15:15:12 <TrueBrain> but that is a bit outside the scope of BaNaNaS :P 15:15:21 <cornishpasty> B A N A N A S 15:15:30 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Put your savegames inside dropbox? :-) 15:15:33 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: s3 15:15:39 <TrueBrain> blathijs: lolz, valid suggestion 15:15:43 <cornishpasty> andythenorth: public ftp 15:15:43 <TrueBrain> never crossed my mind, while I have it installed 15:15:45 <TrueBrain> silly :D 15:15:47 <andythenorth> 'upgrade your space for ' :P 15:15:59 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Ironically I don't actually use dropbox ;-p 15:16:06 <TrueBrain> but given the amount of HD space we have on our server, we could also allow it on openttd.org 15:16:13 <TrueBrain> anyway, just random ideas I sometimes have 15:16:17 <TrueBrain> to make OpenTTD more ... modern 15:16:19 *** keoz [~keikoz@141.2.96.19] has quit [Quit: keoz] 15:16:21 <TrueBrain> state-of-the-art 15:16:26 <andythenorth> savegames get....big :o 15:16:37 <TrueBrain> bandwidth is the only issue really 15:16:43 <TrueBrain> (yours, not ours :P) 15:16:43 <cornishpasty> Charge people for online storage! 15:17:02 <cornishpasty> You get 5MB free then £100/byte 15:17:11 <TrueBrain> as long as I am SysOp of OpenTTD, that will never happen 15:17:14 <TrueBrain> never ever 15:17:29 <cornishpasty> TrueBrain: good idea for next April 1 though 15:17:35 <TrueBrain> I agree 15:17:37 <TrueBrain> bit late 15:17:38 <TrueBrain> but 15:17:40 <TrueBrain> yes 15:17:41 <cornishpasty> NEXT TIME! 15:17:59 <cornishpasty> GADGET 15:18:02 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: what about my per grf idea :P 15:18:11 <andythenorth> it would make somebody rich 15:18:13 <TrueBrain> me 15:18:15 <TrueBrain> but no 15:18:16 <TrueBrain> :P 15:18:20 <andythenorth> you own the store 15:18:26 <andythenorth> I get 30% less tax :( 15:18:45 <TrueBrain> the main issue with grfs, they are all so differently 15:18:50 <TrueBrain> there is not one golden file 15:19:07 <TrueBrain> when starting, the download counter was sufficient 15:19:12 <TrueBrain> but as people downlolad EVERYTHING, it is mute 15:19:44 <andythenorth> I proposed a reviewer system once, where you could 'see what pikka is playing' or whatever 15:20:00 <andythenorth> 'rate this combination' rather than 'rate this grf' 15:20:26 <andythenorth> rating grfs in isolation is nearly pointless 15:20:30 <TrueBrain> I guess I should open a topic about it, and hope for the same kind of replies as I got the last 48h on copyright stuff 15:20:36 <TrueBrain> it really is, yes 15:20:36 <andythenorth> indeed 15:20:48 * andythenorth will put on 'filter out stupid idea glasses' 15:20:55 * andythenorth is a low patience person 15:20:58 <TrueBrain> I kinda like my idea of online profiles, that might be useful 15:21:00 <TrueBrain> to share, mostly 15:21:13 <andythenorth> 'my favourite grfs' 15:21:17 <TrueBrain> but so yeah .. BaNaNaS need a strong redesign, in concept more than code :) 15:21:19 <andythenorth> just link to twitter 15:21:29 <andythenorth> tweet my grf combination 15:21:35 <andythenorth> (as a hash) 15:21:40 <TrueBrain> its not the worst idea 15:21:55 <TrueBrain> gives a lot of fuzz to all his followers 15:22:03 <TrueBrain> they might click it 15:22:11 <TrueBrain> kinda like the idea :) 15:22:17 <andythenorth> could just extend bananas so you get a profile even if not a content author 15:22:30 <andythenorth> for posting reviews, combinations, upload your savegame 15:22:31 <andythenorth> etc 15:22:34 <TrueBrain> yeah, that is what I was thinking about 15:22:46 <TrueBrain> as that goes in side with some old idea of allowing authentication for the client 15:22:54 <TrueBrain> in regards of joining servers which wants some kind of filtering 15:22:58 <andythenorth> +1 15:23:07 <TrueBrain> but that is a lot of work involved :D 15:23:11 <andythenorth> yes 15:23:20 <andythenorth> we build those kind of apps 15:23:26 <TrueBrain> there once was also a planned rewrite for the MS, to allow more information 15:23:29 <andythenorth> some of them, we don't build anymore, too much work 15:23:34 <TrueBrain> but as nobody replied on Rbs topic, he never implemented it :( 15:23:38 <andythenorth> :P 15:23:50 <TrueBrain> people tend to forget developers need praise from time to time 15:23:58 <TrueBrain> (for allt he right reasons) 15:24:07 <TrueBrain> too many feel OpenTTD is a given, and forget the effort involved :) 15:24:20 * TrueBrain brings up the per grf idea again :P 15:24:25 <andythenorth> he 15:24:35 <andythenorth> charging for stuff brings expectations of service 15:24:52 <TrueBrain> I have no interest in charging money :) 15:25:09 <TrueBrain> interesting ideas are flowing from you andythenorth 15:25:14 <planetmaker> nah. A setup fee :-P 15:25:18 <TrueBrain> lets talk more when you have time, I am sure we can cook up something nice 15:25:24 <andythenorth> charity ware 15:25:29 <andythenorth> want to play? donate to charity 15:25:38 <TrueBrain> atm I have sufficient stuff to write for OpenTTD; I might even bring myself doing it :P 15:25:50 <TrueBrain> (all web-software is 3+ years old ... its terrible!) 15:26:19 <andythenorth> he 15:26:24 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.180] has joined #openttd 15:26:25 <andythenorth> we're closing a 7 year old app this week 15:26:33 <TrueBrain> owh, I also still have to build a Jira test setup, so others can see how good Jira is for bug-tracker :P 15:26:38 <TrueBrain> cratz on that :D 15:26:45 <andythenorth> is Jira good? 15:26:49 <TrueBrain> it is 15:26:51 <andythenorth> I need to get off Trac at work 15:26:53 <andythenorth> I like redmine 15:27:00 <TrueBrain> Redmine is good only if you have 1 project 15:27:02 <andythenorth> and we have zendesk for customer support 15:27:07 <andythenorth> trac smells 15:27:10 <TrueBrain> it works terrible for multiproject overview 15:27:23 <andythenorth> not worse than trac :P 15:27:24 <TrueBrain> Jira is a very large commercial product, so there are a lot of things in and on it 15:27:29 <TrueBrain> but you can filter most things out pretty easily 15:27:42 <TrueBrain> so after the setup time, it lokos nice, works fast, and has tons of kewl features 15:27:55 <TrueBrain> I love the Agile support most I guess 15:28:10 <TrueBrain> Grann support, clear overviews and reports for the managers 15:28:18 <TrueBrain> and very cheap if you have < 10 users in your company 15:28:36 * andythenorth adds it to the list 15:28:42 <andythenorth> redmine is....ok 15:28:45 <andythenorth> best I can say 15:28:50 <TrueBrain> it ... works 15:28:55 <TrueBrain> we used it for a while 15:28:57 <andythenorth> anything is better than trac 15:29:04 <TrueBrain> but after a month of 6, it became so messy ... 15:29:11 <andythenorth> trac was once brilliant, but life moves on 15:29:13 <TrueBrain> trac is the most terrible product I have seen for that :P 15:29:38 <andythenorth> better than the one we wrote in house :P 15:29:47 <TrueBrain> I have to add, we just switched to Jira, so it might become an issue in the future 15:29:50 <TrueBrain> but so far .. omg :P 15:30:14 <andythenorth> is it hosted? Or do you host yourself? 15:30:16 * andythenorth looks 15:30:19 <TrueBrain> host ourself 15:30:21 <TrueBrain> much cheaper 15:30:30 <TrueBrain> (10$ per month or 10$ a year, basically) 15:30:33 <TrueBrain> quick choice :D 15:30:50 <TrueBrain> make sure to also check Greenhopper and Bonfire 15:30:53 <andythenorth> hosting yourself is good if you have sysop on tap 15:31:06 <TrueBrain> I guess it is a good thing I am a sysop :D 15:31:31 <TrueBrain> other nice pieces of software to integrated in Jira: FishEye and Crucible 15:31:37 <TrueBrain> FishEye shows your SVN/git/hg in a nice way 15:31:42 <TrueBrain> Crucible alows patch reviewing 15:31:46 <andythenorth> ho 15:31:55 <TrueBrain> Bamboo OpenTTD uses for auto-compiling (also from the same people) 15:32:38 <andythenorth> thanks 15:33:08 <TrueBrain> and if you check who uses it ..... you understand why I talk about it this foundly 15:33:11 <TrueBrain> fondly/ 15:33:39 <TrueBrain> Coca Cola, Paypal, Ebay, Netflix, MTV, Facebook, UPS, NASA, ...... 15:33:46 <TrueBrain> I wonder if it is true, but I guess 15:33:49 <TrueBrain> its on their frontpage :P 15:34:41 <TrueBrain> enough promoting of Atlassian :P 15:34:44 <TrueBrain> I am off for some dinner 15:34:46 <TrueBrain> bbl 15:34:55 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-016-119.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 15:40:12 <Rubidium> I am off for some breakfast ;) 15:40:19 <TrueBrain> show-off 15:41:23 <andythenorth> i am holding a baby 15:41:42 <andythenorth> very wriggly 15:42:48 <FLHerne> I was holding a guinea pig a few minutes ago :D Less wriggly, actually... :P 15:54:34 *** SAC [5ae0e752@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 15:55:39 <SAC> Am I alone here? 15:56:20 <opa> nope 15:56:20 <yno> yes 15:56:23 <__ln__> we all are 15:56:50 <SAC> Okey, I have no idea who you are though... ;p 15:57:30 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 16:00:16 <SAC> Oh well, I'll get back later on... 16:01:03 <andythenorth> SAC: TrueBrain is away having some food, but will be back later and is looking for Bananananas suggestions 16:01:18 * andythenorth also afk 16:02:00 <SAC> Okey! Well, I assume he's not the only one? For this to work out in the right direction, we all need to participate one way or another... 16:03:40 <Zuu> 17:23:50 < TrueBrain> people tend to forget developers need praise from time to time <--- Thanks for your post on SCP :-) 16:05:30 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 16:08:08 <SAC> What's SCP? 16:09:09 <TrueBrain> Zuu: hehe; I was heavily surprised someone wrote that :D 16:09:31 <TrueBrain> SCP is an AI/GS lib they wrote; something I once claimed nobody would ever do, so why implement it in the C++ side 16:10:05 <TrueBrain> so sometimes all it needs is 1 word: wow :D 16:11:54 <SAC> Okey! 16:12:15 <TrueBrain> either way: hi :) Glad you made it over here 16:13:16 <SAC> Thank you! I've been here before - in different ways... ;p Anyway TrueBrain, not to confuse too much, but should we focus on the BaNaNaS Suggestion thread rather than the copright one? 16:13:26 <TrueBrain> yes please :) 16:13:31 <TrueBrain> first off, I have to say, I am happy you are open for dialog; often I see people who are against something, are against it for no reason and just keep bashing over and over and over. It is refreshing for me you are not one of those people. It has to be said :D 16:14:03 <TrueBrain> As far as copyright goes, I think all has been said and done. A learning experience for all, lets call it, and leave it at that :) 16:14:09 <SAC> Well, I may have different opinions in matters, but that doesn't mean I can't see the bigger picture... 16:14:46 <TrueBrain> so, BaNaNaS 16:15:00 <SAC> We cannot afford to have these arguings over and over again, as the only result is that people will loose interest in the game overall... 16:15:16 <TrueBrain> true words; happens a lot, sadly :( 16:15:37 <TrueBrain> so, lets get constructive: can you elaborate on your upload issue with BaNaNaS? 16:15:48 <TrueBrain> I have always been curious about this, but never the means to ask :D 16:16:29 <SAC> Yes BaNaNaS, I'm writing something that may reflect my point of views, concerning not only the BaNaNaS but the community as a whole. If we're going to make a change it needs to be reflected within the entore community... 16:16:43 <SAC> "entire" 16:17:23 <SAC> ...and along with this we're dsicussing the subject also over at Simuscape, both in public members section and inside the admins section... 16:17:50 <TrueBrain> discussion is good; as long as people are open and acceptance to others opinions, it can only lead to better things :) 16:18:47 <TrueBrain> (PS: did you know simuscape looks a lot like simutrans; any relation between the two, or just pure luck?) 16:19:00 <SAC> Well, that's the purpose! Be we ALL need to participate one way or another for this to work out properly in the end... Doing things half way through measn we're soon back on square One again... 16:19:01 <TrueBrain> (the name, ofc) 16:19:17 <TrueBrain> hehe; yes :) 16:19:25 <SAC> Pure luck eally! I don't even play Simutrans... :) 16:19:59 <SAC> But I do like dark colors... ;p 16:20:02 <TrueBrain> I can of course only talk for myself, but as System Operator, you have my attention 16:20:56 <SAC> Yeah, but this isn't about me alone. It's about all of us - although I may have misinterpreted you there... 16:20:58 <SAC> ;p 16:21:20 <TrueBrain> hehe; you did. I mean to say: I am open for dialog, but I am just a small part of OpenTTD 16:21:33 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host217-43-26-179.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:21:35 <TrueBrain> there is a lot done and said, I have no clue how others are towards this goal 16:21:36 <SAC> :) 16:21:56 <TrueBrain> I have been reading a lot of old posts today, and every time I keep reading misassumptions between people 16:22:09 <TrueBrain> you clearly see people colouring in how other people are, and acting upon that 16:22:16 <TrueBrain> I am the first to admit I am part of that problem 16:22:42 <TrueBrain> to take an example: when mb talks, I assume he is out to hurt someone. Then again, when he asks us/me something, he assumes we won't reply 16:22:53 <TrueBrain> the community is full of those back and forth assumptions and wrong-doing 16:22:53 <SAC> No, that's the problem... If we're going to succeed with this I also believe we need to straighten up some issues historically... Like for instance the one between me and Andythenorth which is plain stupid to begin with... 16:24:17 <SAC> MB has a special way of discussing things, and I'm sure his way of doing it - although not intentional - may cause people to be upset... 16:24:53 <SAC> As you said, a lot of theses issues bottles down to language barriers or similar... 16:25:04 <TrueBrain> yeah ... we have those issues even within the OpenTTD dev team :) 16:25:15 <TrueBrain> it is so hard to express yourself in another language when you feel deeply about something 16:25:17 <Sacro> zomg it's SAC ^_^ 16:25:49 <SAC> True... it's very difficult... one way to at least overcome some of it are to use smilies... :) 16:26:00 <TrueBrain> but, I guess if we are serious about cleaning up 'this mess', we have to start somewhere 16:26:25 <TrueBrain> I tihnk the easiest approach is if we all just indicate what troubles us, so it can be talked about .. but I have no clue how that travels with others :) 16:26:31 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00874c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:26:38 <TrueBrain> I am the kind of person that just yells what annoys him, and mostly I get good feedback on that :D 16:26:40 <SAC> Absolutely 16:27:36 <SAC> For instance, it was suggested today at Simuscape today that no swearwords whatsoever should be allowed in any discussions - as one step towards a better and improved atmosphere... 16:27:46 <TrueBrain> I have to admit, only when I took your smilies seriously, your posts weren't as bad as I initially read them :D 16:27:55 <TrueBrain> that is a fair suggestion 16:28:11 <SAC> This may sound trivial but in the end it will have an impact... 16:28:36 <TrueBrain> showing mutual respect is also something to remember; it is easy to assume the other means bad, but if we start to think the other means well, it becomes easier 16:28:49 <SAC> True as well... 16:29:02 <TrueBrain> something simple: today you replied to me: "wrong again", where it was the first time I replied to you 16:29:06 <TrueBrain> at first, it made me go: GRRRR 16:29:14 <TrueBrain> then I realised: you had to take the (sorry for my wording) shit of others first 16:29:19 <TrueBrain> so it is logic from your point of view 16:29:31 <SAC> I admit I could have used a better word - and believe me, I was aware of it to start with 16:29:54 <TrueBrain> so I guess if we all step in the assumption the other doesn't mean bad, it is easier to talk to one-another 16:30:02 <TrueBrain> it is only very hard to do that, for a community as a whole :D 16:30:16 <SAC> Yes that and using the kinder word when we address things... 16:30:42 <TrueBrain> so, I like to be concrete (As you might have noticed), lets just try tackling some issues there are 16:30:52 <TrueBrain> let me bite in a big one: why do you feel the need for a simuscape commuity? 16:31:06 <SAC> Okey, give me a moment to respond... 16:31:23 <TrueBrain> (feel free to say you don't want to talk about it at this stage or what ever; I am a very curious person and just blur those things out there :P) 16:31:50 <SAC> Not to worry, I prefer people who are brutally honest - and curious... ;p 16:32:23 * andythenorth has a comment to make about tt-forums community, but will wait for right moment 16:32:33 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: we all have :P 16:32:40 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A5E8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:32:55 <SAC> First of, Simuscape has always been there. It's not my first site, but when I closed down the others I had in mind to open up Simuscape... 16:34:07 <SAC> 2nd of all, with all the arguings over at TT-forums, which I was part of myself at times - just ask Andy ;p - I felt an urge to have my own place without the disturbance of conflicts... 16:34:29 <TrueBrain> haha, I can relate to that issue :D 16:34:44 <SAC> And quite frankly, I'm of the opinion that the more the merrier... 16:35:12 <TrueBrain> well, let me explain a bit why I ask; I am of the opinion that condensing information is always for the better 16:35:17 <TrueBrain> having 1000 places information is available, I dislike 16:35:22 <TrueBrain> you see that in all my work for OpenTTD 16:35:30 <TrueBrain> all services I created, are there to bring people close together 16:35:48 <TrueBrain> so for me, having several forums is annoying; it doesn't mean I don't see the need for them, nor that I disaprove 16:36:01 <TrueBrain> it just makes me wonder: so .. why does he feel the need to go there :) 16:36:05 * andythenorth has to go wrangle toddlers and babies, biab 16:36:20 *** TWerkhoven2 [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:36:31 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: after joining Simuscape I read what had happened to Leanden, which you are probably not aware of, wrt a grf drama 16:36:32 <SAC> I'm actually addressing this in my respond over at TT-forums - partially at least... (not posted yet) 16:36:41 <andythenorth> and it annoyed me that Leanden felt the need to leave tt-forums 16:36:46 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: ingeneral you can assume I am not up-to-date about drama :P 16:36:46 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:36:52 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-016-119.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 16:37:04 <TrueBrain> SAC: good; as I am very interested to know :) 16:37:06 <andythenorth> Leanden forked a grf at my recommendation, due to stupidity by the so-called 'community' building it 16:37:15 <andythenorth> he then got driven off the forums in a bout of stupid drama 16:37:47 <andythenorth> the people who drove him out are not people who create things mostly, but rather back-seat drive and somewhat bully, or just ask stupid questions 16:37:47 <TrueBrain> so he got punished for doing something you both considered good? 16:37:53 <andythenorth> effectively yes 16:38:02 <TrueBrain> ugh; horrifying 16:38:10 <andythenorth> then more sensible people jumped on him for going somewhere else and doing closed-doors development 16:38:10 <SAC> I agree 16:38:22 <TrueBrain> and so the balls rolls and rolls 16:38:26 <SAC> If I may say something here... 16:38:31 *** blathijs [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:38:36 <TrueBrain> please do :) 16:39:48 <SAC> It's very important to realize that Simuscape isn't an enemy site to TT-forums. On the contrary, Simuscape focus on graphics development to 99%, while TT-forums handles graphics as well, but is more for the OTTD development part... 16:40:28 <andythenorth> I would raise that with orudge :) 16:40:38 <SAC> And to sort of reply to your comment yesterday Andythenorth, the Artists Guild does not provide any files at all... It's a workshop... ;p 16:40:52 <andythenorth> k 16:40:58 <TrueBrain> if I understand you correctly, and do correct me if I was wrong, basically you want your own corner on the internet where not every troll comments on things they don't know about? 16:41:32 <TrueBrain> (and yes, tt-forums has trolls, sufficient to fill a house full) 16:42:08 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-26-188.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 16:42:10 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 16:42:13 <andythenorth> they don't always know they're trolling :P 16:42:20 <TrueBrain> which makes it worse :D 16:42:33 <andythenorth> by the nature of the game we attract people a certain approach to social matters :P 16:42:39 <SAC> Sort of... Some of us feel the need to be able to create and develop stuff in a more private area where a few other artists are located... This does miracle to creativity... And when we feel the need, we publish tidbits inside the Visual Studio 16:42:59 <TrueBrain> I respect that, and can't blame you for it 16:43:16 <SAC> As some may think... ;p Getting praised is NOT what I'm after... that doesn't add to the creativity at all... 16:43:33 <TrueBrain> yesterday I did think you were ;) 16:43:33 <andythenorth> SAC: private / safe area makes sense. This naturally creates some friction with those of us who prefer everything to be open, but it makes sense 16:43:41 <TrueBrain> for that I do appoligize, but it had all appearances :) 16:44:08 <SAC> There are lots of things being developed within the Artists Guild, and thanks to the Guild actually... 16:44:34 <TrueBrain> to give you a bit of an idea of community from my side: 16:44:36 <andythenorth> if there must be two places (and it appears there must), they should co-exist 16:44:42 <TrueBrain> Developers of OpenTTD used to talk in #openttd about anything 16:44:53 <TrueBrain> then the trolls came (no disrespect to anyone, just want to point out how they feel) 16:45:00 <TrueBrain> people who comments on everything, with or without knowledge 16:45:06 <SAC> Andythenorth, I'm addressing this as well... I totally agree... :) 16:45:06 <andythenorth> me! 16:45:08 <TrueBrain> it forced us to go in our own secret channel, hiding 16:45:24 <TrueBrain> I never really liked this move, even so I caused the move 16:45:34 <TrueBrain> I always liked we could talk development in this channel, for everyone to comment 16:45:37 <TrueBrain> the community grew too big 16:45:41 <TrueBrain> and .. well .. here we are :P 16:45:49 <andythenorth> we are where we are 16:45:59 <TrueBrain> how I preceive your story, you went through the same stages basically 16:45:59 <andythenorth> things I am uncomfortable with: 16:46:42 <andythenorth> (1) that simuscape is seen as a rejection of tt-forums - and a move there is seen as political, which is nonsense 16:47:06 <SAC> There will always be "trolls". The important thing is how we address them from all sides... :) 16:47:19 <TrueBrain> SAC: very true, and good point 16:47:24 <andythenorth> (2) typing while holding babies. that is uncomfortable :P 16:47:35 <SAC> 1) In parts it is of course, but I want to change that 16:47:47 <SAC> 2) Very muchsooo :) 16:47:53 <TrueBrain> no experience with it, sry :P 16:47:56 <SAC> be right back... 16:47:59 <TrueBrain> tend to keep it that way :D 16:48:00 <andythenorth> (1) ss is just an alternative choice 16:48:03 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-81-77.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:48:17 <TrueBrain> alternatives are not bad an sich; reasons for it can be 16:50:33 <SAC> back 16:50:36 <TrueBrain> wb :) 16:50:42 <TrueBrain> random questions I am just wondering about 16:50:47 <SAC> yes 16:50:54 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-244-35.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 16:50:58 <TrueBrain> I asusme simscape does publish grfs, but you can only download them if you registered? 16:51:07 <SAC> Hmmm 16:51:09 <SAC> :) 16:51:19 <TrueBrain> (given Public Area gives me 1 topic :P) 16:51:34 <TrueBrain> not judging btw, just curious how your mindset is regarding simuscape :) 16:52:17 <TrueBrain> owh, that is a subforum 16:52:19 <TrueBrain> ah 16:52:34 <TrueBrain> INFRA is available there I see 16:52:39 <SAC> Yes, we do have a registration requirement along with a first post. This is mainly to prevent spambots to get inside, and we have been succesful there... I do have to delete accounts on a daily basis though... 16:52:53 <TrueBrain> ugh, I hate spambots :) 16:53:05 <SAC> ...but they never make it into the sections... 16:53:34 <TrueBrain> other random: why make closed source graphics? 16:53:40 <TrueBrain> purely curious, again :) 16:54:04 <SAC> Not sure what you mean by that? 16:54:16 <TrueBrain> euhm, I work for .. 10+ years in open source world now 16:54:22 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:54:22 <SAC> Ahhh 16:54:25 <TrueBrain> my mindset is totally brainwashed, and I want to make as much as possible open source 16:54:31 <TrueBrain> but grf authors always tend to keep it closed source 16:54:42 <TrueBrain> (exceptions there) 16:54:59 <TrueBrain> I never manage to speak to someone who is honest enough to give me an answer :D 16:55:45 <SAC> In all honesty I've had custom files stolen on many occassions in the past... TTDLX isn't my first game community, but even there I've had stuff finding its way out to the public... stolen trees for instance... and new trees... 16:55:46 * andythenorth is confused by this too 16:56:07 <TrueBrain> but can't they steal from your closed source too? 16:56:20 <SAC> I think it bottles down to the way I personally look at my work.. 16:56:24 <SAC> Sure they can.. 16:56:24 <andythenorth> 'openness' (or lack of) is probably the biggest thing that I get frustrated about :P 16:56:27 <TrueBrain> (it btw horrifies me that people steal from others, even without credits ... like .. wtf?!) 16:56:34 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.230] has joined #openttd 16:56:37 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 16:56:43 <andythenorth> it horrifies me that I might make work that other people can't use / reuse 16:56:48 <TrueBrain> okay, honest answer, I like that; tnx :D 16:57:06 <andythenorth> I might leave, or get bored, or die, and my work is gone 16:57:10 <TrueBrain> for me too it is really hard to think in closed source, but that is a problem on my side, not on SAC's in this case :) 16:57:23 <andythenorth> moi aussi 16:57:25 <TrueBrain> one truth is not better than the other :D 16:57:31 <andythenorth> +0.8 :P 16:57:35 <TrueBrain> hihi :) 16:57:53 <TrueBrain> sorry for the random Qs, I am just so happy I can ask them :) 16:57:55 <SAC> I think that when my work reaches a wider audience I may view this differently... 16:58:18 <andythenorth> I really like seeing my sprites appear in other sets 16:58:29 <andythenorth> and knowing that my grfs might live on beyond me being interested in them 16:58:34 <SAC> True 16:59:04 <TrueBrain> to some more interesting topic (for me, I am a webdesigner :P): you stated that you wanted to be able to delete your older grfs;now there is a bit of confusion about what you mean exactly, so let me put it bluntly: 16:59:16 <TrueBrain> 1) you want to remove older grfs and break older savegames 16:59:22 <TrueBrain> 2) you want to avoid people to download your grf for new games 16:59:31 <TrueBrain> (for which ever reasons they may come) 16:59:54 <TrueBrain> which applies? :D 16:59:57 <SAC> 1. Now that I understand how the content service works, I know better 17:00:33 <SAC> 2. I'm addressing this entire BaNaNaS issue in my upcoming response... 17:00:40 <TrueBrain> hehe 17:00:51 <TrueBrain> basically, 2 is fixable 17:00:56 <TrueBrain> I can add a button for it, not a big deal 17:01:06 <TrueBrain> 1) is directly against the philosophy we base OpenTTD on 17:01:17 <SAC> My position is that the BaNaNaS is the best suited place for a centralized download location... 17:01:21 <TrueBrain> not a bad thing if it would collide, but interesting for me :) 17:01:35 <TrueBrain> I am happy to hear that 17:01:50 <SAC> Both for ingame downloads and direct downloads 17:01:55 <TrueBrain> I guess my only question would be: what do we need to change for you to upload on it? 17:02:21 <TrueBrain> and/or, would there be any need to extend it in the way Dave suggested 17:02:29 <SAC> I think I can address this better in a reply to that thread... :) 17:02:34 <TrueBrain> fair enough 17:02:36 <TrueBrain> :D 17:02:45 <TrueBrain> I WANT ANSWERS! :P 17:03:09 <SAC> You'll get answers... 17:03:11 <TrueBrain> (FYI, I am not a serious person; it takes me effort to refrain myself from joking and torlling :P) 17:03:22 <SAC> :) 17:03:33 <SAC> Andy? Still here? 17:03:36 <andythenorth> yup 17:04:18 <SAC> We need to clear up that whole incident in the past! Once and for all! From my point of view I believe it was a misunderstanding... 17:04:23 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: which bit of the "bananas doesn't have a web interface" do I miss? 17:04:35 <andythenorth> I see a web interface, just a bad one :P 17:04:48 <andythenorth> SAC: it was a language issue 17:04:58 <andythenorth> and then it was compounded because idiots jumped into the thread 17:05:04 <SAC> And I could most certainly have responded in a way better manner! 17:05:08 <andythenorth> it would have gone away on its own via rational discussion 17:05:23 <TrueBrain> awh, look at you two, being cute and all 17:05:30 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: you stand need to talk :P 17:05:39 <andythenorth> today has been cuddly TrueBrain 17:05:57 <TrueBrain> now you two give eachother a hug, and lets continue onwards :) 17:06:14 <SAC> Absolutely, but to be brutally honest Andy, what upset you back then? And what could I have done better? 17:06:14 * andythenorth is a bit on the spectrum and doesn't do physical touching :P 17:06:40 <andythenorth> SAC: credit the grfs you lifted stuff from, be clear you weren't going to release the graphics 17:07:02 <andythenorth> beyond that, the drama was added by other people, who inflated it incorrectly into all kinds of wrong 17:07:34 <SAC> Okey Thanks! I apologize for that - although I need to point out I wasn't going to use any of it other than just showing George something 17:07:46 <andythenorth> stuff (not from you) like (paraphrase) "all this licensing stuff is just crap" basically completely devalues things like GPL 17:07:59 <SAC> But I could indeed have checked the original author rather then requesting others to do it! 17:08:07 <andythenorth> I want to be very open, you want to be very closed, both are based on clear licensing and attribution 17:08:53 <SAC> Well, I do apologize though... 17:08:55 <SAC> :) 17:09:06 <andythenorth> thanks, I'm sorry it got heated 17:09:30 * TrueBrain brings the flowers 17:09:33 <SAC> Yeah, but as you said, the ones interfering didn't help out 17:09:43 <SAC> On the contrary... 17:09:51 <andythenorth> they never do, and it's usually the same people 17:09:56 <andythenorth> and they are not people who make things 17:10:03 <SAC> Very true... soo very true 17:10:06 <TrueBrain> maybe a question without answer: what can we (as moderators?) do to prevent these situations where others inflict? 17:10:21 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:10:31 <andythenorth> not sure yet 17:10:35 <TrueBrain> on the internet, everyone knows better; but sure it should be possible to form a culture to prevent it? 17:10:37 <SAC> TrueBrain, I'm addressing this too! I think we need to have a similar approach on all sides... 17:10:41 <andythenorth> there is one mod who sadly inflames as much as helps :( 17:11:18 <TrueBrain> and andythenorth, BaNaNaS does have a frontpage, albeit terrible 17:11:24 <andythenorth> yup 17:11:29 <andythenorth> and page per content type 17:11:30 <TrueBrain> it used to be purely view, it had to be extended to allow download 17:11:39 <andythenorth> I tried improving it, but no dev environment :P 17:11:52 <TrueBrain> it went from just showing what happened in a system, to a functional site .. terrible 17:11:59 <SAC> Not to sound negative towards TT-forums, but I think admins, mods and devs needs to be more active in terms of preventing people from attacking each others 17:12:07 <TrueBrain> and I am to blame in that, I never took much interest in improving it 17:12:16 <TrueBrain> SAC: I 100% agree with you 17:12:22 <TrueBrain> but it is hard, and mostly boring 17:12:34 <andythenorth> the lego forum I hang out on is much better for that, (has to be as kids use it). No backseat driving, no swearing, no arguments, no trolls 17:12:35 *** blathijs [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 17:12:39 <TrueBrain> the cultural aspect also plays: what is a troll for you, might be normal for me 17:12:39 <Terkhen> hello 17:12:42 <andythenorth> brb, poo incident 17:12:54 <TrueBrain> I just love andythenorth and his babies :P 17:13:09 <SAC> And to be honest, I feel that there is a bunch of people over there who have somehow gained a bit more freedom in doing so than others - which is really bad... 17:13:19 <TrueBrain> hehe; yes 17:13:31 <TrueBrain> but moderation is not a black and white thing 17:13:36 <SAC> True 17:13:42 <TrueBrain> sometimes you also need to give a bit to allow conversations to continue 17:13:55 <TrueBrain> silly example maybe, but "the thread" of this weekend, was said to be doomed and end in a flamewar 17:14:03 <TrueBrain> now look at us, being all civalised and all 17:14:08 <Terkhen> I don't have much to add to your discussion but I just want to say I'm quite happy that it is happening :) 17:14:42 <TrueBrain> in general, moderation is hard .. its easy for small communities 17:14:44 <TrueBrain> but as things grow 17:14:44 <andythenorth> resolved (smelt of yoghurt) 17:14:46 <TrueBrain> ..... 17:15:12 <SAC> And for what it's worth, also in here we need to respect others... I may not ba active here, but I've been updated from time to time... ;p Just saying... 17:15:14 <SAC> :) 17:15:21 <TrueBrain> which also leaves me in a very ... double state. On one hand I think simuscape is a good thing, for people who are serious to 'hide' from the rest 17:15:33 <andythenorth> what is trolling in some places is standard behaviour in open source dev communities (the "tl;dr" type of approach) 17:15:34 <TrueBrain> like developers do on IRC 17:15:42 <TrueBrain> on the other hand ... its sad that it is required 17:15:59 <andythenorth> it is good that it exists; it is bad that some people feel driven there 17:16:00 <TrueBrain> SAC: spies are everywhere :D (I have played too much EVE Online) 17:16:07 <SAC> :9 17:16:09 <SAC> :9 17:16:10 <SAC> .) 17:16:14 <TrueBrain> keep trying 17:16:15 <SAC> :) 17:16:20 <TrueBrain> :D 17:16:49 <TrueBrain> all joking aside, the climate has to shift 17:16:56 <SAC> Absolutely 17:16:58 <TrueBrain> I often don't reply to threads, as people will drop over me like a banana 17:17:04 <andythenorth> stuff like 'please search' and "don't double post" is valid community management 17:17:31 * andythenorth feels absolutely no guilt for bullying the BROS 'team' 17:18:11 <SAC> And for me personally I'd like to address people who has problems with me - simply to sort things out once and for all... 17:18:20 <SAC> So Terkhen... 17:18:22 * andythenorth however also found a very bad thread in 'off-topic' about BROS, and was pretty disgusted by it 17:18:22 <SAC> :) 17:18:23 <TrueBrain> I think that is a very valid and noble quest 17:18:50 <SAC> Bring it on... 17:19:16 <TrueBrain> what made you turn around lke this? (sorry if it is a in-the-face question, but agian: I am a curious person) 17:19:25 <SAC> Asking me? 17:19:27 <TrueBrain> yes 17:19:29 <NGC3982> this is giving me a serious headache 17:19:29 <TrueBrain> to explain 17:19:38 <TrueBrain> it seemed you were driving away from tt-forums 17:19:39 <NGC3982> utorrent simply doesnt write from cache to disc 17:19:42 <TrueBrain> and now you drive back here 17:19:45 <NGC3982> and it makes me crazy :( 17:19:50 <TrueBrain> why? Or better: how can we get others to do the same? 17:19:57 <TrueBrain> NGC3982: sstt now :P 17:20:03 <SAC> I never left TT-forums. I only moved my work... 17:20:14 <TrueBrain> as I noticed :D (for the positive) 17:20:14 <andythenorth> SAC you are your work :P 17:20:36 <NGC3982> TrueBrain: sst? 17:20:40 <TrueBrain> okay, maybe I should put it differently, as I understand the question is vague at best 17:20:42 <SAC> But I'm seriously tired of all the arguings over and over again... 17:20:53 <TrueBrain> take a person like ... hmm, the name with an L? 17:20:58 <TrueBrain> (sorry, I am terrible at names :() 17:21:00 <andythenorth> Leanden 17:21:06 <andythenorth> this thread is disgusting http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=59609 17:21:07 <TrueBrain> how can we as community make him feel welcome 17:21:09 <andythenorth> I found it yesterday 17:21:09 <TrueBrain> (again) 17:21:10 <SAC> ...and that they never seems to be addressed properly so we can solve them 17:21:20 <andythenorth> ^ found that via Simuscape 17:21:29 <TrueBrain> SAC: seriously, I started this conversation with it, but this highroad you take, I have a lot of respect for you taking it 17:21:32 <andythenorth> If I'd found it earlier I would have back-seat moderated 17:21:40 <TrueBrain> it takes balls (excuse my french), and shows character 17:21:50 <SAC> Andythenorth, I dislike it too 17:22:25 <andythenorth> I can disambiguate and negotiate between two groups of people who make things: one 'open' and one 'closed' 17:22:31 <SAC> I wouldn't say that TrueBrain... We're all here for the same purpose, but if we want our community to survive and develop further, we need to find a solution 17:22:31 <andythenorth> but that thread is full of idiots 17:22:49 <SAC> :9 17:22:51 <SAC> .) 17:22:54 <SAC> :) 17:23:00 <TrueBrain> SAC: take the compliment ffs :P :D 17:23:05 <TrueBrain> but yes, you are very correct 17:23:15 <SAC> Sure... Okey... :) 17:23:17 <andythenorth> the idiots have conflated 'development focussed communities often have robust discourse' with 'it is ok to be a dickhead' 17:23:57 <TrueBrain> is part of the problem that people have no space they can indicate they feel being wrong-done? 17:23:57 <Terkhen> SAC: if you are asking me if I have any problems with you... I only truly followed this weekend discussion as I felt that it affected the openttd team as a whole, and I can see that it is now going through the right path 17:24:13 <andythenorth> if only MB would join us here too ;) 17:24:26 <Terkhen> so as I said I can't add much to the discussion :P 17:24:29 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I can only hope he would be as open as we all now try to be 17:25:00 <SAC> I was asking you Terkhen based on what I've seen you saying in this chat... Not to argue, but to solve... :) 17:25:42 <SAC> I am far from perfect, but one can only learn and improve if given the right instruments - and constructive critisism 17:25:53 <SAC> above all 17:26:07 <Terkhen> ok :) 17:26:50 <SAC> brb... need to visit the bathroom... :) 17:26:55 <TrueBrain> tmi 17:27:58 <TrueBrain> I think a problem was that in "the thread" one misunderstanding above the other was stacked, to create a lot of confusion and weirdness; but that is now all water on the bridge as far as I care/consider :) 17:28:00 * andythenorth has replied to that insane thread 17:28:16 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: you know Hyronymus is a moderator? 17:28:23 <TrueBrain> well aware; why? 17:28:36 <andythenorth> and yet I think there would be a statistically valid correlation between threads he is moderating, and drama 17:28:47 <andythenorth> guess I should talk to orudge 17:28:54 *** blathijs [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:02 <TrueBrain> don't be quick to judge: he is sent (by us mostly) to threads we think are out of control 17:29:06 <andythenorth> k 17:29:11 <andythenorth> I have been slow to judge 17:29:15 <TrueBrain> he, to me, is always the one that is more calm then we are :P 17:29:18 <andythenorth> I have formed my opinion on results :P 17:29:34 <andythenorth> also correlation may not be causation 17:29:35 <SAC> Good point in that thread Andythenorth... I totally agree 17:29:40 <andythenorth> firemen are always present at fires :P 17:29:43 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I was writing those words! Dammit :P 17:29:50 <TrueBrain> but that is what I mean, yes 17:29:59 <andythenorth> when I was small, I thought firemen came to light fires. Fire engines terrified me 17:30:05 <TrueBrain> when I am about to inflame on someone, I PM Hyro if he can take a look 17:30:15 <TrueBrain> he mostly replies very calm: nothing going on, you overreacted (in kind words) 17:30:19 <andythenorth> ho 17:31:03 <TrueBrain> basically what you just said in my mind: a moderator is always in a thread with drama 17:31:09 <TrueBrain> which indeed is: a firemen is always present at fires :) 17:31:22 <andythenorth> valid inductive reasoning: firemen start fires 17:31:28 <TrueBrain> yup 17:31:33 <TrueBrain> causality is a tricky thing :P 17:31:43 <TrueBrain> but then again, I rarely have any real interest in what goes on on the forums outside the constructive replies 17:31:52 <TrueBrain> I stop reading threads very very quickly 17:32:03 <Terkhen> hmm... that thread is quite sad indeed 17:32:03 <SAC> Well, I need to leave you - for now - so I can continue to write my response... :) Thanks for being brutally honest with me... :) 17:32:12 <andythenorth> bye SAC 17:32:14 <TrueBrain> and tnx for joining 17:32:19 <andythenorth> come back 17:32:19 <SAC> :) 17:32:21 <Terkhen> see you SAC 17:32:24 <SAC> I will! 17:32:24 <andythenorth> dialogue is constructive 17:32:28 <TrueBrain> indeed, come back (under your own name etc) 17:32:35 <TrueBrain> :D 17:32:36 <SAC> It is! 17:32:41 <SAC> SAC I mean... 17:32:45 <NGC3982> < TrueBrain> causality is a tricky thing 17:32:46 <TrueBrain> when people talk, the world is not as bad as it appears :D 17:32:50 <SAC> I may need to create an account possibly 17:32:57 <TrueBrain> please do 17:33:00 <NGC3982> of course it isnt. its just like birds and feathers 17:33:04 <NGC3982> no pun intended. 17:33:10 <SAC> Cya later! :) 17:33:14 <TrueBrain> ciao 17:33:55 * NGC3982 paul valery causality quotes doesnt come trough 17:33:56 <TrueBrain> and sorry NGC3982, but we were talking stuff, and you came blabbing random stuff in between :P That is why I said: ssttt 17:34:13 <TrueBrain> I know this channel is rarely ontopic, but we needed it now :D 17:34:18 <NGC3982> TrueBrain: ah, you mean: "shh". ssttt is a telescope, afaik. 17:34:24 <TrueBrain> ssttt is dutch 17:34:30 <TrueBrain> stt even 17:34:30 *** SAC [5ae0e752@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 17:34:31 <TrueBrain> what-ever 17:34:33 <TrueBrain> :P 17:34:36 <NGC3982> for shushing? 17:34:38 <TrueBrain> yes 17:34:42 <TrueBrain> sst 17:34:43 <Terkhen> yes, sometimes on-topic must be enforced :P 17:34:44 <NGC3982> man, how many lips do you guys have. 17:34:51 * NGC3982 is great on off-topics. 17:34:53 <TrueBrain> femals 4, why? 17:35:30 <NGC3982> TrueBrain: well, i didnt get it. sorry for disturbing something that felt rather serious while scrolling up now. 17:35:50 <TrueBrain> NGC3982: its fine, I just wanted to say sorry for doing that like that 17:35:57 <TrueBrain> I just needed you to shutup about random unrelated events :D 17:36:02 <NGC3982> :p 17:36:10 <TrueBrain> its rare, I know :D 17:36:16 <NGC3982> well 17:36:22 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r24339 /trunk/src/lang/ (greek.txt polish.txt unfinished/urdu.txt): 17:36:22 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:36:22 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: greek - 5 changes by kyrm 17:36:22 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: polish - 7 changes by xaxa 17:36:22 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: urdu - 29 changes by yasirniazkhan 17:36:32 <NGC3982> the thing is, this channel is the most serious channel (besides #QED and stuff). 17:36:47 <andythenorth> NGC3982: if you're feeling overly-serious, try #tycoon 17:36:49 <NGC3982> a part of me wishes to break that with lame english and farts 17:36:55 <andythenorth> #tycoon is, afaict, bollocks 17:36:58 <NGC3982> a part of me also wishes i was one of you. 17:36:59 <NGC3982> :( 17:37:03 <NGC3982> andythenorth: oh, jeez 17:37:08 <TrueBrain> owh, the days this channel was 90% OpenTTD 17:37:11 <TrueBrain> I do miss those :P 17:37:18 <TrueBrain> then again, we only had 30 people in those days 17:37:18 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: this channel is 90% me now 17:37:29 * NGC3982 feels responsible 17:37:41 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: it is; for a while it had been 90% nothing 17:37:43 <TrueBrain> which was even more boring 17:38:05 <andythenorth> Terkhen: so yes that thread is very stupid. And it irritates me. 17:38:21 <andythenorth> reading between the lines at Simuscape, the forums are now seen as 'dominated by openttd' 17:38:35 <andythenorth> and so the attitude is seen as 'the one of the openttd developers' 17:38:46 <TrueBrain> I wish that was true; would be so much better :P 17:38:55 <andythenorth> it's a perception in some quarters :P 17:39:02 <andythenorth> and when people who have nothing to do with openttd act like fuckwits 17:39:07 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has joined #openttd 17:39:08 <TrueBrain> I can't get a decent conversation going on the forums without some troll 17:39:10 <andythenorth> it's seen as "ottd-like behaviour" 17:39:12 <Wolf01> evenink o/ 17:39:16 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 17:39:36 <NGC3982> im sorry, but "ottd-like behaviour" is actually a phrase i use sometimes 17:39:40 <andythenorth> :P 17:39:43 <andythenorth> wrt? 17:39:49 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I'm also afraid of posting in some debates just because I have a "OpenTTD developer" below my name 17:39:50 <TrueBrain> try playing Minecraft on public servers 17:39:53 <TrueBrain> terrifying 17:40:04 <andythenorth> ho I can imagine 17:40:07 <TrueBrain> Terkhen: I often solve that by starting: Personally, ..... 17:40:08 <NGC3982> when describing what kind of people who built this monster of code and logic. 17:40:18 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: basically YT, but with bricks? 17:40:27 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: haha, yes 17:40:35 <andythenorth> it's great 17:40:36 <Terkhen> some opinions that could be considered "normal" will be flamed if they come from what they perceive as an authority figure 17:40:50 <andythenorth> YT and minecraft public servers means we know where all the idiots are and what they're doing 17:40:54 <Terkhen> but I hardly consider myself that wrt the community itself 17:41:09 <TrueBrain> Terkhen: I fully understand your problem :) 17:41:14 <TrueBrain> I think all developers have it, one way or the other 17:41:22 <TrueBrain> you don't always want to reply with authority, as you don't always know 17:41:28 * andythenorth has deliberately avoiding gaining any kind of authority for that reason 17:41:28 <TrueBrain> yet any reply you make iwll be received as authority 17:41:55 * NGC3982 normally presents the openttd community as a pair of asberger savant non-working retards, and still make it sounds fantasticly fabulous. 17:41:55 <andythenorth> having commit rights to nml terrifies me quite enough :P 17:42:06 <andythenorth> NGC3982: approximately correct 17:42:17 <NGC3982> i find some stuff you make amazing 17:42:21 <NGC3982> like, the language 17:42:38 <NGC3982> i monitored some dutch guy having a discussion in industrial italian 17:43:16 <NGC3982> and here i am trying to look cool becuase i can say like four words in swahili. 17:44:12 <andythenorth> so it troubles me 17:44:17 <NGC3982> or PMs (not going to hilight and get ultra-flamed this time) ability to make fantastic contributions to a community like this, and still be awesome-pancake at astronomy. 17:44:26 *** blathijs [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 17:44:33 <andythenorth> the attitudes that make open source work - robust discussion etc - are being confused with being a twat 17:44:41 <Terkhen> to mention an example of a discussion that happens a lot; I honestly think that GPL is the best way to go for community projects, but enforcing it (or any other license) hurts the community as other people can and will see things in a different light, and they should be allowed to contribute in the way they see fit 17:44:41 <andythenorth> and it hasn't been shut down enough 17:44:57 <NGC3982> andythenorth: well. most people on irc talk like me. as in: HI THERE MISTAR ANDEE :DDDD?????!!!one. 17:45:12 <andythenorth> NGC3982: I don't go on most of irc :P 17:45:16 <Terkhen> but if I, as an openttd developer, mention that in a thread, it will be seen as an attempt to enforce something 17:45:16 <TrueBrain> Terkhen: yup; that is why we allow all licenses 17:45:20 <TrueBrain> dispite me not liking it :D 17:45:26 <Xaroth> NGC3982: most of IRC people deserve to be shot for that :P 17:45:30 <NGC3982> andythenorth: discussing as a calculator makes enormous effort on the projekt, but maybe not as much as a "first thing you react to when someone talks to you". 17:45:32 <TrueBrain> Terkhen: not if you describe it that way 17:45:37 <TrueBrain> that is, if they would, it is their problem 17:45:56 <Terkhen> TrueBrain: yes, but some people will use such a comment to add to the fire :) 17:45:57 <TrueBrain> you, even as developer, are entitled to your opinion; as long as you are open minded enough to listen to others 17:46:07 <andythenorth> NGC3982: do you hang out in many development channels? Like #python or #php or #mysql or such? :) 17:46:14 <TrueBrain> sadly, many of my statements over the years have been (heavily) abused in one way or the other 17:46:18 <NGC3982> andythenorth: absolutely not. 17:46:19 <TrueBrain> often by cutting context, or even words 17:46:26 <andythenorth> NGC3982: pretty similar to here ;) 17:46:27 <TrueBrain> I have to admit, it made me post less 17:46:34 <andythenorth> hmm 17:46:35 <TrueBrain> so .... yes .. I feel your pain :) 17:46:40 * andythenorth has not had that problem at all, ever 17:46:42 <andythenorth> :o 17:46:42 <Terkhen> :) 17:47:00 <TrueBrain> also, that made me change my posts to: Personally, .... 17:47:07 <TrueBrain> it did get less by then 17:47:14 <NGC3982> andythenorth: my fifteen years with irc reeks with complete language poop. 17:47:42 <TrueBrain> on a totally non-related note: I am in this community 8 years and 3 months now 17:47:49 * andythenorth sometimes uses 'imho', which is completely lame and weak 17:47:54 <NGC3982> andythenorth: since im brought up with it that way. i almost never used it as a serious development tool, but more to hang out with hipsters and stuff. 17:48:05 <NGC3982> at least, im not in the 'lol' generation. 17:48:07 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: furniture :) 17:48:07 <andythenorth> also I should pay more attention, my two year old is emptying the bath onto the floor with a bucket 17:48:18 <NGC3982> andythenorth: neat. 17:48:18 <andythenorth> lol 17:48:18 <TrueBrain> pay attention to your children ffs 17:48:25 <Terkhen> TrueBrain: I feel old just because I have been here already for 4 years :P 17:48:27 <andythenorth> neglect makes them stronger 17:48:40 <TrueBrain> and .. calling cival services 17:48:44 <andythenorth> the problem is when the water reaches my laptop 17:49:00 <NGC3982> andythenorth: squash two birds in one go. have your son learn how a pirate lives while contributing to the community (by not caring and write some nml). 17:49:00 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: what is your address? 17:49:09 <TrueBrain> I need to know it to .... send you ... a postcard 17:49:10 <TrueBrain> I think 17:49:12 <TrueBrain> :P :D 17:49:46 <NGC3982> as a kid, i remember filling daddy's car seat with flower pot dirt i found. 17:49:56 <NGC3982> t'waz neat, i thought id grow a new car inside the car. 17:50:03 <TrueBrain> lolzzz 17:50:27 <andythenorth> while we're here, I can't make up my mind about MB 17:50:38 <andythenorth> mostly I like MB, he's witty in a way that others seem to miss 17:50:40 <NGC3982> Mario Brothers? 17:50:44 <andythenorth> but he was very badly behaved about bananas 17:51:01 <andythenorth> I would say water under the bridge, but it will happen again 17:51:14 <andythenorth> over some other issue 17:51:56 <TrueBrain> for his last .... defaming action, I kinda want an apoligy from him; you can do what ever you want in a community, but when you defame a corp in a legal takedown, you get on my bad side ... which is rather hard to get on tbfh 17:51:59 * NGC3982 has use of his gigabit for the first time. 17:53:07 <TrueBrain> but people keep telling me he was most likely not aware that his actions were in fact legal actions 17:53:22 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: in that case you have said the last word on it for me; he should apologise 17:53:36 <andythenorth> to not apologise shows a lack of decent respect for community norms 17:53:49 <NGC3982> 30MB/s sounds pretty reasonal for a normal USB2 external drive, right? 17:53:51 <TrueBrain> that he already showed by the assumption we would not process his claim 17:54:03 <andythenorth> well he did bad, but could make it better by apologising 17:54:09 <TrueBrain> I think he of all people has the most to do in regards of attitude change 17:54:10 <andythenorth> that is what we teach children anyway 17:54:32 <TrueBrain> he seems hardwired to assume we always mean bad; and I am sure we have our history to proof him that 17:54:41 <TrueBrain> but like SAC says: lets leave that behind us, and continue fresh 17:55:05 <andythenorth> tomorrow is another day 17:56:15 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I say that we should concentrate on the current problem and take care of any future ones when they happen (taking into account what happened before, of course ;) ) 17:56:26 <andythenorth> +1 17:56:38 <andythenorth> more pressingly, how do I clean the floor? :P 17:56:45 <TrueBrain> licking? 17:57:07 <andythenorth> tis mostly water 17:57:10 <andythenorth> should be fine to lick 17:57:14 <TrueBrain> exactly 17:57:16 <TrueBrain> use your children 17:57:51 *** blathijs [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:17 *** blathijs [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 18:00:05 <FLHerne> Does anyone here get Blender? 18:00:30 <FLHerne> I've been trying to model Class 60s, but the interface is limitlessly baffling :-( 18:01:41 <Terkhen> nope, I opened it once and closed it after a minute 18:01:43 <andythenorth> hmm 18:02:00 <andythenorth> so the water was going through the floor and running out of the light fitting in the room below :P 18:02:06 * andythenorth has removed the child from the bath 18:02:07 <Terkhen> I hope that more people learn blender though, it seems that we need more 32bpp sprites :) 18:02:18 <andythenorth> don't want to test the RCD trip :P 18:04:05 <FLHerne> I'm trying to, but it's a pain. Kpovmodeler had a much nicer interface, but doesn't exist anymore :-( 18:04:18 * andythenorth liked Cinema4D :P 18:04:25 <andythenorth> a long time ago. Not free. 18:04:59 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: children before IRC 18:05:03 <TrueBrain> stop forgetting that 18:05:07 <andythenorth> parallel 18:05:48 <andythenorth> he's watching YT anyway 18:06:01 *** blathijs_ [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 18:06:30 *** blathijs [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:08:09 <frosch123> is the air clear? can i start flaming again? 18:08:32 <andythenorth> no we are being nice for the next 3 months 18:08:45 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/content2.png <- why are people using so stupid tags? it makes me feel working on that feature is totally useless 18:09:05 <andythenorth> which are stupid? 18:09:10 <Terkhen> "heightmap" heh 18:09:15 <frosch123> "heightmap" 18:09:29 <frosch123> half of the tags are author names 18:09:43 <andythenorth> of course ;) 18:10:03 <frosch123> if searching for an author is a useful thing, we could just add that to the search algorithm 18:10:09 <andythenorth> yup 18:10:12 <frosch123> but, putting it into the tags is silly 18:10:17 <andythenorth> union of all grfs I have my name on ;) 18:10:18 <Terkhen> frosch123: it's simpler to add the tag than to write a feature request :) 18:10:19 <andythenorth> etc 18:10:26 <andythenorth> tagging is open and messy 18:10:35 <andythenorth> and lets you identify categories you wish you'd thought of 18:10:49 <andythenorth> categories-in-advance is mostly a bunfight that ends up wrong whoever wins 18:11:04 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:11:08 <andythenorth> so be happy when tagging fails, because you probably won :) 18:11:41 <andythenorth> [by not wasting time devising taxonomies nobody likes or uses correctly] :P 18:12:01 <TrueBrain> frosch123: tags are the most worst function I added to any OpenTTD service :P 18:12:17 <andythenorth> try harder :P 18:12:18 <TrueBrain> I still feel dirty for doing 18:12:22 <andythenorth> if that's the worst you've done 18:12:25 <andythenorth> rating would be worse 18:12:28 <TrueBrain> it is so heavily abused, it is ... ugh 18:12:44 <TrueBrain> we really need a good review system for BaNaNaS 18:12:53 <Terkhen> TrueBrain: with regard to the original discussion for improving bananas... some linux distributions ask you to install a package that keeps track of what you install 18:12:57 <andythenorth> curation 18:13:12 <frosch123> Terkhen: i always answer "no" to that :p 18:13:15 <Terkhen> we could make OpenTTD ask you for permission for sending information about what you use in your games 18:13:18 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 18:13:25 <andythenorth> Terkhen: +1 18:13:27 <andythenorth> + lots 18:13:34 <andythenorth> screw the supposed privacy violations 18:13:36 <TrueBrain> its a posibility, but ... its tricky 18:14:11 <Terkhen> andythenorth: of course, it would not give any personal information 18:14:17 <Terkhen> just: content x was used in y games 18:14:18 <frosch123> well, the difference is: people can download all content, but they cannot add everything to a single game 18:14:21 <Terkhen> but indeed, tricky :) 18:14:29 <andythenorth> ET phone home 18:14:40 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: that is easily coverable by good statements and open source 18:14:46 <TrueBrain> not a real issue I expect 18:14:49 <TrueBrain> as long as we ask about it 18:14:53 <andythenorth> we wrote an extensive tracking framework for flash games when I was making them 18:14:56 <Terkhen> yes, I thought of it as a solution to the "download is not a good measure" problem 18:15:06 <Terkhen> just a random idea :) 18:15:06 <andythenorth> no sensitive personal data, just play information 18:15:14 <Terkhen> frosch123: and I answer yes usually :P 18:15:16 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:15:27 <TrueBrain> I like my idea more and more, about having profiles on the web 18:15:29 <TrueBrain> where you can select grfs 18:15:31 <TrueBrain> make groups 18:15:34 <TrueBrain> start games with it 18:15:35 <TrueBrain> publish them 18:15:44 <Terkhen> ooh, a social network? :P 18:16:04 <Terkhen> just put the game in steam or desura while you are at it :D 18:16:16 *** blathijs_ [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:38 <TrueBrain> :P 18:17:33 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: leave out comments etc :P 18:17:36 <andythenorth> we're not making YT 18:17:42 <Terkhen> yes, please, absolutely no comments whatsoever 18:17:49 <Terkhen> just a link to the forum thread should suffice 18:18:02 <andythenorth> also no personal messaging etc - anti-grooming applies, we have kids playing 18:19:14 <Terkhen> agreed, any kind of messaging leads to the need of moderation 18:19:21 <Terkhen> and we don't need or want that :) 18:24:56 *** blathijs [~matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 18:27:19 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest3487 18:27:19 *** Guest3487 [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:27:20 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:28:16 <TrueBrain> omg, he used BaNaNaS website as frontend ... omg .. that explains so much; the horror! 18:28:19 <TrueBrain> I wouldn't even want to do that 18:28:22 <TrueBrain> its terrible for that 18:28:24 <TrueBrain> in al possible ways 18:28:40 <andythenorth> yup :) 18:28:51 <andythenorth> that's why I was going to fix it 18:28:53 <TrueBrain> its silly how easy you can miss such information, but ... omg :P 18:28:57 <TrueBrain> I didn't know :D 18:29:08 <andythenorth> also SAC is she 18:29:10 <andythenorth> ;) 18:29:12 <andythenorth> more information 18:29:26 <TrueBrain> argh, people keep telling me, and I keep forgetting 18:29:33 <TrueBrain> I consider every person on internet a he 18:29:39 <TrueBrain> not discrimanting between any of them 18:29:40 <TrueBrain> its easier 18:29:42 <TrueBrain> I am lazy 18:29:51 <TrueBrain> its not meant as disrespect, FYI :D 18:30:09 * andythenorth wants to mockup bananas templates, but instead has work to do 18:30:19 <andythenorth> applying twitter bootstrap ui to a plone app 18:30:28 <andythenorth> or replying to emails :P 18:30:43 <TrueBrain> or making me an image 18:30:44 <TrueBrain> :P 18:30:50 <andythenorth> emails can wait :P 18:31:05 <andythenorth> what's the test url? 18:31:14 <TrueBrain> www-test.openttd.org 18:31:19 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:31:28 <andythenorth> I misplaced my history :P 18:31:30 <TrueBrain> its a CSS image 18:31:49 <andythenorth> is it checked in? 18:31:53 <TrueBrain> no 18:31:59 <TrueBrain> its a new site 18:32:02 <andythenorth> hmm 18:32:05 <TrueBrain> so you have to pick it off the website :D 18:32:10 <andythenorth> firebug 18:35:10 *** blathijs [~matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:15 <TrueBrain> made a topic about BaNaNaS Frontend and review 18:39:27 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: lose the gradients, simpler, http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3069/site_selected_nav_1.png 18:39:34 <andythenorth> or with box-shadow inset http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3068/site_selected_nav_2.png 18:39:45 <andythenorth> I'd lose the main nav gradient as well tbh 18:40:19 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 18:40:20 <TrueBrain> I like _2 more 18:40:25 <TrueBrain> and yes, I agree 18:40:29 <TrueBrain> can you cook me 2 pngs for that? :D 18:41:07 <andythenorth> just css 18:41:22 <TrueBrain> give me the CSS properties then :P :D 18:41:22 <andythenorth> generally I avoid images where possible, modern css covers so much 18:41:58 <NataS> andythenorth, you convinced me to play Dwarf Fortress again. 18:42:26 <andythenorth> I have never played it. I'm tempted :P 18:42:30 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1480/ 18:42:38 <NataS> you should 18:42:40 <NataS> it's fun 18:42:53 <NataS> (Translator's note: Fun means losing) 18:42:54 <andythenorth> you need to change the font color for navbar <a> selected as well 18:44:04 <andythenorth> box-shadow is the best css attr in years :P 18:44:11 <andythenorth> no ie7 or 8 support afaik 18:44:13 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-244-35.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:44:18 <TrueBrain> yeah ... openttd.org is CSS2 atm 18:44:23 <TrueBrain> but .. you know ... ancient history :D 18:46:08 <TrueBrain> which colour to give the top bar then ? 18:46:30 <andythenorth> I'll eat then tweak ;) 18:47:37 <Terkhen> that looks nice :) 18:50:47 *** blathijs [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 18:51:09 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: updated www-test with some basics of what you gave me 18:51:17 <TrueBrain> I think it can be done more pretty :D 18:53:08 <andythenorth> maybe we use the orange as over state 18:53:12 * andythenorth -> firebug 18:55:04 <andythenorth> double nav is not easy for this problem :) 18:55:28 <TrueBrain> life aint easy :P 18:56:07 <frosch123> make the subsection one in ottd green instead :p 18:56:16 <frosch123> might look horrible though :) 18:56:20 <andythenorth> yes 18:56:26 <andythenorth> green and orange are contrasting colours 18:56:34 <andythenorth> no designer would use them adjacent :D 18:56:43 <andythenorth> except the designer of ottd logo ;) 18:56:51 <frosch123> i like the ottd orange and green :) 18:59:22 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3070/site_selected_navbar_3.png 18:59:25 <andythenorth> ho 18:59:40 <andythenorth> flat colour is better than gradients for these down states 18:59:54 <frosch123> the orange is too dark :) 18:59:56 <andythenorth> prize for the first one to admit that green and orange looks silly 18:59:56 <TrueBrain> isnt that a lot: in your face? :D 19:00:13 <TrueBrain> softer colours might help? 19:00:15 * andythenorth will present v4 shortly 19:00:23 <frosch123> yes, too edgy comared to the rest 19:00:33 <andythenorth> I presented that as a "no we don't like that" ;) 19:01:52 <andythenorth> v4 also not good http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3071/site_selected_nav_4.png 19:02:28 <frosch123> i think the font in the navbar has too much weight (not sure about the term) 19:02:52 <frosch123> http://www.openttd.org/en/ <- a lot easier readable 19:02:53 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3072/site_selected_navbar_5.png 19:03:23 <andythenorth> it might be better to invert font colour for secondary nav 19:04:14 <frosch123> oh, silly me... it's the same font, it's just andy's browser which displays it so ugly 19:04:28 <TrueBrain> last is very nice 19:04:32 <andythenorth> ugly? :P 19:04:35 <TrueBrain> no 19:04:36 <andythenorth> that's how that font looks :P 19:04:37 <TrueBrain> nice 19:04:40 <TrueBrain> owh, thatone 19:04:41 <TrueBrain> haha 19:04:43 <TrueBrain> oops :D 19:04:55 <TrueBrain> MISCOMMUNICATION! Lets make a thread ... *troll* 19:04:59 <andythenorth> frosch123: install trebuchet 19:05:02 <frosch123> TrueBrain: use numbers 19:05:19 <andythenorth> frosch123: you probably see Arial? 19:05:46 <TrueBrain> frosch123: done 19:05:46 <andythenorth> I don't really like Trebuchet, it's sharp, and the letter shapes can be hard to read 19:05:50 <frosch123> no idea, but it is a light sansserif font 19:10:38 <andythenorth> hmm 19:10:44 * andythenorth ponders orange main nav 19:11:03 <andythenorth> maybe not 19:11:21 <TrueBrain> owh, too many seriousness on a day makes me go bananas ... I guess I should log off the forums for today, before it gets any worse 19:11:30 <andythenorth> orly? 19:11:55 <frosch123> what? 19:12:00 <andythenorth> I see 19:12:01 <andythenorth> :D 19:12:04 <frosch123> what do you blame on me? 19:12:18 <NGC3982> please sweden 19:12:20 <TrueBrain> [21:14] <TrueBrain> MISCOMMUNICATION! Lets make a thread ... *troll* 19:12:21 <TrueBrain> [21:14] <frosch123> TrueBrain: use numbers 19:12:24 <NGC3982> win this 19:12:33 <NGC3982> win something, dammit. 19:12:39 <frosch123> oh, i guess you should quickly delete your post :p 19:12:41 <andythenorth> why 5493? 19:13:53 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I have 7 days, not? :D 19:14:09 <frosch123> not if someone replies, of it you use mod powers 19:14:28 <frosch123> s/of it/or unless/ 19:15:03 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196-210-208-84.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has left #openttd [QUIT :Leaving.] 19:15:28 <frosch123> TrueBrain: seriously, that post makes you look silly 19:15:49 <frosch123> maybe be as well :p 19:15:51 <frosch123> *me 19:15:54 <TrueBrain> owh, you guys have to lighten up a bit 19:15:59 <TrueBrain> just reply something silly 19:16:02 <TrueBrain> and then we both look silly 19:16:32 <SpComb> lollipops! 19:16:39 <TrueBrain> see, that is a correct reply :) 19:16:43 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i hate the offtopic section 19:17:19 <andythenorth> hmm 19:17:26 <andythenorth> also so v5 of those screenshots? 19:17:37 * andythenorth has refreshed firebug so lost it :P 19:18:01 <frosch123> though i think i found an appropiate troll reply 19:18:31 <TrueBrain> LOL!!! 19:18:34 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:18:36 <TrueBrain> perfect reply frosch123, thank you :D 19:20:24 <SpComb> you clearly need to find some way to extend to OpenTTD GPL to loaded newgrfs 19:20:41 <TrueBrain> SpComb: we can modify it upon loading :P 19:20:46 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: v5, yes 19:21:00 <SpComb> loaded GRFs that use OpenTTD-specific features are obviously a derived work of the OpenTTD GPL code, since they wouldn't be of any use without OpenTTD 19:21:21 * SpComb read too much linux kernel module gpl stuff last week 19:21:28 <TrueBrain> a tool neer forces the license of the file processed by said tool 19:21:35 <TrueBrain> never 19:22:31 <TrueBrain> I completed my thread :D 19:22:35 <andythenorth> the main nav should be lighter 19:22:38 <andythenorth> or such 19:22:40 <andythenorth> hmm 19:24:04 <SpComb> TrueBrain: linus argued that LSM's are subject to kernel GPL since they're so integrated into kernel stuff 19:24:16 <SpComb> TrueBrain: "function pointers don't form a GPL boundary" 19:24:35 <TrueBrain> I disagree 19:24:39 <andythenorth> there's a GPL FAQ on it 19:24:48 <TrueBrain> that would make our world a lot harder, if that was true tbh 19:24:59 <andythenorth> newgrfs are almost certainly all GPL by being combined with a GPL program 19:25:08 <andythenorth> but meh 19:25:09 <TrueBrain> as example, you wouldn't be able to execute VB script in OOO if it was stored in docx 19:25:37 <TrueBrain> its incredible how much joy one can experience from posting a trollcat 19:26:01 <TrueBrain> I have tears in my eyes 19:26:22 * andythenorth has those kind of days :P 19:26:41 <andythenorth> grr. these navbar images are annoying me :P 19:28:16 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0e8ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:28:25 *** SAC [5ae0e752@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:29:50 <TrueBrain> I should stop browsing through lolcats 19:29:53 <TrueBrain> it makes me smile too much 19:30:21 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-016-119.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 19:30:26 <SAC> Hi again... just had some quesions... 19:30:31 <TrueBrain> shoot :) 19:30:32 <Terkhen> hi SAC 19:30:41 <SAC> Hi Terkhen... :) 19:31:16 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A5E8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:40 <andythenorth> we should lose the stripes in the header, it has moire flicker 19:31:45 <Zuu> TrueBrain: I've been having communication protocol ideas for AI <-> AI ever since you created NoAI. But now with GS and the problem on how to make AIs play with goals, there was a real motivation for it. 19:31:46 <SAC> What can be done with BaNaNaS in terms of making it more userfriendly, (as suggested in one of those spinoffs)? Is it a technical issue and/or economical one? 19:31:47 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has joined #openttd 19:31:50 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 19:31:52 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: while at it, redesign the website? :P 19:31:56 <andythenorth> meh 19:32:00 <andythenorth> that is the problem with tweaks :P 19:32:05 <andythenorth> I like the site 19:32:05 <Zuu> I and krinn had a chat on IRC about it and decided to have a go on it. :-) 19:32:13 <TrueBrain> Zuu: and I never liked the idea, but I am impressed you guys implemented it 19:32:26 <TrueBrain> SAC: time is an issue 19:32:38 <andythenorth> and there's no dev environment :P 19:32:42 <andythenorth> did I mention that? :P 19:32:44 <TrueBrain> basically, nobody has the knowledge/time/freedom to build a replacement 19:32:48 <TrueBrain> neither do I 19:32:52 <TrueBrain> so it never got done 19:32:57 <Zuu> Although krinn have made most of the low level work on the library. My role have been to test it, write documentation and try to find bugs. :-) 19:32:58 <TrueBrain> andythenorth is the only one who ever gave it a try 19:33:00 <SAC> I figured that too... 19:33:01 <__ln__> please do not create Skynet 19:33:03 <TrueBrain> failed horribly for all the obvious reasons :P 19:33:07 <andythenorth> I can try guessing by writing django templates, but then we have to put them live to test them :P 19:33:10 <TrueBrain> but andythenorth and I agree'd we are going to fix this, so :) 19:33:28 <TrueBrain> the topic is not a topic like: I ask you, and we discard it ;) 19:33:32 <TrueBrain> we will fix BaNaNaS 19:34:19 <andythenorth> pyramid app! 19:34:30 * andythenorth needs to learn a new python framework 19:34:31 <SAC> I'm thinking in terms of making the BaNaNaS a "central place" for downloads... Is it possible considering the time/knowledge/freedom? 19:34:40 <TrueBrain> yes 19:34:49 <andythenorth> yes 19:35:06 <SAC> What else is required? Financial back-up? 19:35:08 <Xaroth> andythenorth: if it's django I can assist, if it's pyramid, I can not :P 19:35:09 <TrueBrain> basically, it has to be done; BaNaNaS is now 3.5 years old, and never really updated to new standards :P 19:35:14 <Xaroth> i cba to learn a new framework :P 19:35:26 <TrueBrain> SAC: lots of feedback 19:35:38 <andythenorth> Xaroth: it's ok, I can adapt. Pyramid is not wildly differing to Django afaict 19:35:38 <TrueBrain> often this goes wrong, and I am left by my lonely self to come up with solutions 19:35:42 <TrueBrain> which is rather boring and dull 19:35:58 <Zuu> TrueBrain: I can understand there is a fear that two AIs will coop up. Ideally OpenTTD would provide a API for implementing all sort of goal systems, but then you would need to patch OpenTTD to support every goal idea that someone have. SCP allows AIs to be aware of goals that are not supported by the OpenTTD core API. 19:35:58 <SAC> TrueBrain, that of course... 19:36:28 <TrueBrain> Zuu: I understood that, and notice it was good :D 19:36:39 <TrueBrain> SAC: it is basically the most important thing: feedback 19:36:40 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I think I need the repo for the website, or a zip of images :P 19:36:41 <SAC> I'd be interested to hear some of the other devs on this entire matter... 19:36:44 <TrueBrain> what would you want the system to do 19:37:05 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: did you fix my CSS already? :D :D 19:37:10 <andythenorth> no :( 19:37:16 <andythenorth> or we could just apply bootstrap 19:37:18 <Xaroth> then no images for you! 19:37:23 <Xaroth> andythenorth: <3! 19:37:32 <TrueBrain> SAC: in regards of the climate issues, you indeed should hear from other devs 19:37:37 <andythenorth> if we use bootstrap it will look like every other website made this year :D 19:37:40 <frosch123> Zuu: i would love ais teaming up, then you can also team up against them 19:37:42 <andythenorth> http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/ 19:37:44 <TrueBrain> as far as BaNaNaS goes, most of them only know that it works 19:37:46 <Xaroth> andythenorth: I have a django-admin rewrite for bootstrap ready.. but tb refuses to use it 19:37:48 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-80-63.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 19:37:55 <TrueBrain> (and they tell me if they don't like something etc :P) 19:38:13 <SAC> BTW, since I'm on a mission to work out differences, I see Xaroth is here... :) 19:38:23 <Xaroth> I'm always here, I just know when to stfu 19:39:11 *** jgh [~ashfasdf@cpc2-sgyl36-2-0-cust717.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:39:13 <SAC> ;) Still, let me know what may possibly bother you, and I'll address them and change what needs to be changed... 19:39:23 <SpComb> working on BaNaNas and Django sounds interesting, but not going to start on it because I have too much similar work of my own to take care of 19:39:44 <TrueBrain> I can poop out the Python part very fast, or at least, relative fast 19:39:54 <TrueBrain> its easy, and I am good at that 19:40:01 <TrueBrain> what I am not good at, is design, ideas, ..... 19:40:04 <TrueBrain> I need people for that 19:40:06 <Terkhen> SAC: for gathering the opinion of more people (devs or not) with regard to the "community climate" IMO a forum thread is a better option 19:40:08 <andythenorth> django templates are just ${blah} right? 19:40:15 <Xaroth> SAC: I have no personal issues with you :) 19:40:16 <Xaroth> andythenorth: {{ }} 19:40:20 <Xaroth> {% %} 19:40:21 <TrueBrain> so SAC, please do post what you think BaNaNaS should do, in detail where possible :) 19:40:22 <frosch123> SAC: i never read the off-topic and barely read the grf development forum; so the bros thread andy pointed out was also interesting for me to learn about 19:40:28 <andythenorth> can I do {{method.call()}} 19:40:33 <Xaroth> no need for () 19:40:42 <Xaroth> django will attempt to call if it's callable 19:40:45 <Xaroth> {{method}} 19:40:48 <andythenorth> the off-topic is a place I am not going back to 19:41:07 <SAC> LOL I left the off-topic long ago... 19:41:14 <andythenorth> Xaroth: I'll have to learn pyramid another time then :P 19:41:21 <andythenorth> if we're committed to django 19:41:32 <andythenorth> maybe I'll write a pyramid app and ship it with BANDIT 19:41:39 <Terkhen> SAC: with regard to the bananas changes I can and will give feedback and opinions, but as TrueBrain said, it is "TrueBrain 's thing" :P 19:41:40 <andythenorth> for configuring the grf 19:41:41 <TrueBrain> We are committed to Django ;) 19:41:48 <Xaroth> :) 19:42:04 <andythenorth> "configure this grf in your browser at localhost:8700" 19:42:38 <andythenorth> currently the BANDIT admin in is in Zope, shipping Zope with the grf is...almost the definition of overkill :P 19:43:08 <SAC> Xaroth, okey... :) As long as we're clear... 19:43:10 <TrueBrain> hmm, maybe I should make a nice topic explaining how our webservices work, what is required for any improvement, and where it goes 'wrong' if anything :) 19:43:29 *** kais58_ is now known as kais58 19:43:34 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: would be useful, you might get more contributors too 19:43:40 <andythenorth> currently it is...mysterious 19:43:43 <TrueBrain> yeah; if our service system wasn't so damn complex ... 19:43:52 <TrueBrain> there is so much shit going on ...... :D 19:43:58 <andythenorth> you should see the diagram of our ad network 19:44:03 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD has 15 VPSes at work for him 19:44:06 <Xaroth> if openttd's system op wasn't so damn complex 19:44:10 <TrueBrain> 5 of them are dedicated to compiling the binaries 19:44:12 <Xaroth> :P 19:44:12 <SAC> Thanks Terkhen for clearing that up... I annoy Truebrain instead... :) 19:44:16 <TrueBrain> the rest to service your day-to-day services :) 19:44:31 <Terkhen> no problem :) 19:44:46 <TrueBrain> 2 of them are proxies, one is a gateway, 2 are 'general' (LDAP + MySQL), the rest are dedicated servies 19:44:55 <TrueBrain> guess that shows a tiny bit with what I mean: complex :D 19:45:02 <SAC> brb 19:45:04 <Terkhen> but don't worry about asking questions 19:45:07 <Terkhen> bbl, time for dinner 19:45:25 <andythenorth> ach 19:45:29 <SpComb> TrueBrain: sounds like a puppet-sized problem! 19:45:33 <andythenorth> so I need to remake the css for v5 of the navbar 19:45:38 <andythenorth> but the navbars are all wrong :P 19:45:41 <frosch123> yay, at least it is already possible to edit tags 19:45:51 <michi_cc> SAC: Suggestion for simuscape: The FAQ button in the top row is like not visible at all, a tiny bit of contrast would do wonders there. 19:46:15 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: FIX IT! :D 19:46:49 <TrueBrain> on the positive side btw, because of this setup, stuff is contained .. if you break into mediawiki you do just that: break into mediawiki 19:46:52 <frosch123> hmm, i suppose starting a third bananas thread about tag usage is not useful? 19:46:52 <TrueBrain> no other service runs on it 19:47:05 <TrueBrain> frosch123: integrate it witht he other 19:47:09 <TrueBrain> as in: try to find a way to avoid the abuse 19:47:12 <TrueBrain> I like the Category idea 19:47:14 <NGC3982> goal! 19:47:19 <TrueBrain> just make a preset of tags available 19:47:26 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i really like to use tags instead of categories 19:47:36 <frosch123> but, the current tags are not suitable for that 19:47:39 <TrueBrain> then how do we control the abuse? 19:48:07 <frosch123> i think most tags are so stupid, because it is so hard to compare with other stuff 19:48:21 <TrueBrain> hehe 19:48:27 <TrueBrain> take it to a thread :D 19:48:45 <SAC> michi_cc, yes, it's been a subject also within Simuscape, so I'm bound to change it... My view on design isn't the same as many others... :P 19:48:52 <SpComb> TrueBrain: how do you handle distro updates/upgrades on all the different servers? 19:49:06 <TrueBrain> not? :P 19:49:08 <TrueBrain> all run debian 19:49:10 <TrueBrain> so it is easy 19:49:15 <SpComb> unattended-upgrades? 19:49:19 <TrueBrain> no 19:49:21 <Xaroth> debian does upgrades once every 5000 years? 19:49:22 <TrueBrain> snapshot + update 19:49:22 <SpComb> or do you go around and apt-get every week? 19:49:31 <TrueBrain> every week? Hell no :P 19:50:03 <TrueBrain> once in a while, and when I receive a CVE security notification for any of the services we run 19:50:08 <TrueBrain> due to the setup, very few 19:50:29 <SpComb> I run automated unattended-upgrade for squeeze-security updates 19:50:41 <TrueBrain> I have bad experiences with them 19:50:42 <SpComb> risk of breaking stuff is smaller than the risk of nobody being arsed to update them 19:50:57 <TrueBrain> I run a large cluster of systems; I get notified if something important happens :D 19:51:03 <TrueBrain> basically, openssh-server is top priority 19:51:06 <TrueBrain> the rest is gateway'd 19:51:10 <TrueBrain> so only nginx remains, really 19:51:58 <SpComb> and bus-factor? 19:52:12 <TrueBrain> you mean, the factor of me being hit by a bus? 19:52:26 <Xaroth> or the factor of a bus being hit by you? 19:52:34 <SpComb> how many people need to get hit by busses 19:52:38 * SpComb is bus-factor 1.0 19:52:56 <TrueBrain> euh, how many people do we have in the development team? :P 19:53:04 <TrueBrain> assuming it doesn't happen at the same time 19:53:07 <TrueBrain> I would say most part of the world 19:53:12 <TrueBrain> sounds heavily unlikely 19:53:28 <TrueBrain> joking outside, Rb is my primary fallback (and does it when I am unavailable) 19:53:36 <SpComb> specifically the sysadmin and openttd.org infra bits? 19:53:38 <TrueBrain> all developers have access to the details, although most are not aware of that fact :P 19:53:58 <SpComb> quite 19:54:21 <SpComb> I deal with a school infra that's entirely in-house, with only voluntary student admins that change every year 19:54:24 <SpComb> sucks 19:54:34 <TrueBrain> it is 19:54:41 <TrueBrain> there should be a chain of bus-hit :P 19:55:02 <TrueBrain> no, I always made sure others could also always access the systems 19:55:07 <TrueBrain> if they can figure out what to do, is a second ofc 19:55:11 <TrueBrain> most is somewhat documented 19:55:17 <TrueBrain> but Rb seems to be managing fine, so I guess it is sane enough 19:55:41 <SpComb> I tried to solve it with puppet, but it remains to be seen if it just makes the problem worse 19:55:59 <SpComb> since now only those people able to learn and use puppet will be able to do anything :) 19:56:58 <andythenorth> meh http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3074/meh.png 19:57:02 <andythenorth> something like that, only better 19:57:12 <andythenorth> the menus need inverted colour on the font 19:57:22 <andythenorth> to distinguish primary / secondary nav 19:57:29 <Yexo> <TrueBrain> all developers have access to the details, although most are not aware of that fact :P <- I think this is quite important :p 19:57:50 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: and now show selections :D 19:58:03 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: easy 19:58:06 <andythenorth> dunno how 19:58:10 <andythenorth> easy once it's done though :P 19:58:17 <TrueBrain> Yexo: well, if you would ask in the dev channel, I am sure that within 24h you are logged in to the server; if you really wanted to :) 19:58:41 <Yexo> I couldn't care less, I'm happy I don't have to deal with keeping it all running 19:59:07 <Yexo> the only thing I find important is that enough people know where to find those details when they need to have them 19:59:19 <Yexo> say (however unlikely) that you and rb would dissappear at the same time 19:59:33 <Yexo> would be good to know if pm or someone else could still log in 19:59:40 <frosch123> i doom the day i learned how to post news items :p 19:59:50 <SAC> This is just an idea though, but to reflect that we're in fact one big family although having our home on different sites, would it be possible to have some smaller logos at the bottom for TT-forums, Simuscape, TT-MS Headquarters and so on... 20:00:07 <SAC> On OpenTTD.org I mean... 20:00:14 <michi_cc> frosch123: CVE management isn't any better :) 20:00:20 <SAC> Just a thought... :P 20:00:24 <Yexo> SAC: great post on the forum :) 20:00:42 <SAC> Yexo , which one? 20:00:42 <TrueBrain> SAC: do you know some fine artists to make a mockup for said logo? :D 20:00:56 <Yexo> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1025800#p1025800 <- that one most importantly 20:01:15 <SAC> Well, our logo is already done and TT-forums already have one... 20:01:17 <Yexo> having such a list of logos needs carefull thought as to which sites would be included 20:01:47 <Yexo> tt-forums/simuscape/tt-ms/openttdcoop might be obvious choices, but there are forums for other languages besides tt-ms 20:02:06 <TrueBrain> I would open it for all who comply with certain values 20:02:10 <TrueBrain> an etiquette 20:02:13 <SAC> Yexo, thanks! 20:02:26 <Yexo> which is problematic to judge for forums in other languages 20:02:31 <frosch123> michi_cc: i feel lucky :) 20:02:32 <Yexo> what about the russian forum? 20:02:47 <andythenorth> Yexo: can I inspire any interest in this ticket? :) http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4000 20:02:49 <TrueBrain> trust they control theirself in it? 20:02:50 <Terkhen> there is a small spanish forum too :P 20:02:52 * Sacro headscratches 20:03:02 <Sacro> so you use NAT for IPv4, but not for ipv 20:03:03 <Sacro> 6 20:03:08 <Sacro> so how do I get packets out :( 20:03:12 <SAC> I think we need to have this entire discussion with all forum representatives (?)... 20:03:48 <Yexo> SAC: forum representatives is different from OpenTTD developers (for openttd.org) 20:03:55 <SAC> I know... 20:04:15 <TrueBrain> Sacro: you? 20:04:16 <michi_cc> There's also Tycoonez.com if you start with all the language forums (and who knows if there's any chinese/japanese/whatever community out there). 20:04:23 <andythenorth> ho 20:04:30 <TrueBrain> so, make an open invitation to all these places 20:04:31 * andythenorth needs a large openttd logo 20:04:37 <SpComb> Sacro: you route, which requires cooperative configuration from your upstream, which IPv4 NAT does not 20:04:39 <TrueBrain> get them on IRC or what-ever, start a thread on some common ground 20:04:40 <Sacro> TrueBrain: yes, I'm trying to get packets 20:04:45 * XeryusTC slaps TrueBrain 20:04:48 <SpComb> Sacro: unless you use DHCPv6 PD which automates it 20:04:53 <Sacro> SpComb: hmm, I have a /64, I use NAT for lxc 20:04:53 <XeryusTC> behave yourself in the more sensible parts of the forums! 20:04:56 <TrueBrain> Sacro: ah; just checking you werent talking about OpenTTD :P 20:05:00 <Terkhen> if you start a thread I'll invite the spanish forum administrator over :) 20:05:00 <TrueBrain> XeryusTC: why? 20:05:03 <TrueBrain> people are too tight up 20:05:09 <Terkhen> bbl (for real this time) 20:05:17 <SAC> TrueBrain get them on IRC or what-ever, start a thread on some common ground - That's a good idea... 20:05:18 <Sacro> oh hang on, I use iptables on v4, i'm guessing iptables6 or whatever won't touch packets 20:05:19 <XeryusTC> weÂŽve got offtopic for silliness 20:05:29 <TrueBrain> XeryusTC: owh, losen up a bit 20:05:30 <SpComb> Sacro: you're tough out of luck if that /64 is on-link, not routed via your host 20:05:30 <XeryusTC> i dont come to the OpenTTD section to laugh at cats raping each other :P 20:05:31 <TrueBrain> its funny 20:05:39 <SpComb> Sacro: unless you proxy-nd or other hacks to achieve the same end result 20:05:40 <TrueBrain> I have more cats ready :P 20:05:57 <XeryusTC> please wait until caturday O:) 20:06:02 <Sacro> SpComb: hm, what I want is for my ipv4 stuff to be NAT'd out via my one address 20:06:12 <Yexo> andythenorth: you can, although not for tonight 20:06:13 <SpComb> Sacro: although, uh, dunno exactly what kind of magic lxc supports, I was talking more about kvm/xen 20:06:24 <Sacro> and for my ipv6 stuff to go in/out direct, so's I can have an AAAA exeternally accessable 20:06:37 <michi_cc> andythenorth: http://vcs.openttd.org/git/?p=openttd/trunk.git;a=blob_plain;f=media/openttd.svg;hb=f28f6fac66f76c77c444152af336826179172aee 20:06:38 <Sacro> I'm guessing a bridge is not the way to go 20:06:47 <Sacro> or perhaps it is, for ipv6 only :\ 20:06:57 <SpComb> Sacro: since all the interfaces are in the same host kernel you can probably just do some trickery with them 20:07:00 <andythenorth> ho, svg 20:07:53 <XeryusTC> TrueBrain: also, iÂŽm protecting you of the vengeance of orudge and Hyro ;) 20:08:09 <Sacro> ah yes, the vengeful orudge 20:08:15 <TrueBrain> I never had a warning before .. I am willing to take one 20:08:32 <Sacro> TrueBrain: chortle 20:08:33 * andythenorth needs to redesign the site 20:08:38 <andythenorth> that's unexpected :P 20:09:22 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: keep it simple ffs 20:09:26 <TrueBrain> I only wanted 1 (!) new image 20:09:31 <andythenorth> it growed :P 20:09:32 <TrueBrain> not a golden watch with diamonds 20:09:36 <TrueBrain> this how it always starts 20:09:45 <andythenorth> can I haz the images please? 20:09:49 <TrueBrain> download them 20:09:51 <andythenorth> I tried finding them via the path 20:09:55 <andythenorth> I get django errors :P 20:09:57 <TrueBrain> Firebug tells you :P 20:10:01 <TrueBrain> ffs, let me start a browser 20:10:03 <andythenorth> ach of course 20:10:04 <andythenorth> nvm 20:10:07 <TrueBrain> :D:D 20:10:15 <TrueBrain> I am sorry, IRC is on a secondary computer 20:10:18 <TrueBrain> which is TERRIBLY slow 20:10:21 <TrueBrain> so I hav eno copy/paste buffer 20:11:40 <TrueBrain> SAC: I guess the main question is: where to start a thread about it; I guess tt-forums is neutral enough 20:12:03 <NGC3982> i think i just created something fantastic 20:12:06 <TrueBrain> maybe for this undertaking ask orudge if he is willing to make a temporary forum of some kind? I dunno .. I am bad at this crap, there is a reason I am in a SysOp :P 20:12:17 <NGC3982> i logged onto my shell with my mobile phone (android + irssi connectbot) 20:12:24 <TrueBrain> Intercooperation Forum Thread :D 20:12:38 <NGC3982> i used screen -rd (redraw) to make the window fit the landscape mobile display nicely 20:12:59 <NGC3982> i also log in on my htpc, but with screen -x (just imitade the latest screen rendering) 20:13:09 <NGC3982> and change the channel on the tv to the ongoing soccer game 20:13:12 <SAC> TrueBrain, yes or approach each forum admin personally with an e-mail and find out where they stand... 20:13:21 <NGC3982> == mobile phone on table, ircing with keyboard. 20:13:32 <TrueBrain> SAC: would you be willing to carry that load? 20:13:42 <SAC> ...and invite them to a chat on a specific channel... 20:13:46 <SpComb> NGC3982: oldhat 20:13:51 <SAC> TrueBrain, absolutely... 20:13:55 <TrueBrain> awesome 20:14:15 <NGC3982> SpComb: old, surely. im just amazed over why i havent thought of this before. 20:14:34 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: you want the orange and green? Or orange and dark grey (orange + dark grey = better) 20:14:42 <Alberth> TrueBrain: brilliant cat with paws on its ears :D do you have it at a larger size? 20:14:42 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: pick one, I live with it :P 20:14:49 <TrueBrain> Alberth: trollcats.com 20:14:51 <TrueBrain> enjoy yourself 20:18:02 <SAC> From one thing to another, I'm on my way to create a linkage page on Simuscape to various "family-sites" ;), where do I ask for permission to use the OpenTTD.org logo? 20:18:25 <Xaroth> the much discussed info@ address i'd say 20:18:48 <TrueBrain> the logo is GPL :D 20:18:50 <TrueBrain> hihi 20:19:03 <SAC> Okey... :) 20:19:14 <TrueBrain> so we want a LICENSE File to go with it *troll* 20:19:51 <TrueBrain> without joking, I would say, go ahead and use it, and drop an email at info@. But as I don't speak for the whole team, lets poke two others .. who were last active .... 20:19:54 <TrueBrain> Alberth / Yexo: ? :D 20:20:15 <TrueBrain> (and with drop an email, I mean: just email info@ saying I said it was fine to use, basically :P) 20:20:27 <TrueBrain> the latter just for documentation purposes, for both your and my side :) 20:20:40 <Yexo> you have my go :) 20:20:47 <SAC> Yes, I do it the proper way... :) 20:20:52 <Alberth> fine by me too 20:20:57 <TrueBrain> so there you have it :) 20:21:07 <SAC> Okey, thanks... :) 20:21:13 <Yexo> not that I have anything specific to say about the logo, but ok :) 20:21:21 <TrueBrain> Yexo: nobody has, that is the fun part :) 20:23:33 <NGC3982> am i off completely, or does the ukranian prople still have issues with bosniaks? 20:24:01 <NGC3982> as a completely openttd related question, thati s. 20:24:10 * NGC3982 becomes silent. 20:27:10 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1481/ 20:28:38 <TrueBrain> spaces versus tabs, how nice :P 20:29:25 <TrueBrain> many silly changes 20:29:27 <TrueBrain> odd 20:30:24 <andythenorth> ach 20:30:37 <andythenorth> It's a copy and paste from firebug, that's never going to work 20:30:53 <andythenorth> give me a minute, I'll have to dl the original and change 20:31:22 <TrueBrain> owh, I am already in that process, no worries 20:31:41 <andythenorth> sure? 20:31:49 <andythenorth> it's like 9 lines I've added or something 20:32:04 <andythenorth> hmm 20:32:11 * andythenorth missed some apple announcements or something 20:33:12 <andythenorth> oh new laptop time 20:33:18 <andythenorth> a whole extra 0.1GHZ 20:33:23 <andythenorth> now I can run YACD 20:33:28 <andythenorth> :P 20:33:32 <TrueBrain> lolz 20:34:45 <FLHerne> That's a whole 100MHz! :o 20:35:23 <FLHerne> That would make my laptop able to run OTTD :P 20:35:28 <Eddi|zuHause> that's three of my first laptops combined! 20:35:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i actually played TT on that laptop :) 20:35:59 <FLHerne> 133MHz is borderline, so 200MHz+ would be about playable :D 20:36:43 <andythenorth> hmm, I could get a 15" laptop, then I get quad core :P 20:36:43 <FLHerne> I compiled OTTD on mine...took a while :-) 20:36:51 <andythenorth> but then I have an enormous laptop :P 20:37:17 <FLHerne> Good enormous, or just enormous? :P 20:37:39 <andythenorth> bad 20:37:50 <FLHerne> So enormous but useless? 20:38:34 <andythenorth> enormous but too big 20:44:40 <Alberth> reminder to self: opening a .png with gvim does not give a nice picture :p 20:47:44 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: there, published it, with some minor changes 20:47:54 <TrueBrain> did went back to CSS2, as I saw I could (I am a purist like that :D) 20:47:59 <TrueBrain> but it looks nice :D Tnx! 20:49:20 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: done and done 20:49:37 <andythenorth> bold on the main nav helps I think 20:49:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: the matrix... 20:50:16 * FLHerne preferred the previous look :-( 20:50:35 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: ? 20:50:51 <andythenorth> FLHerne: which one? 20:51:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: watching visual information in text form 20:51:31 <Alberth> I didn't see it move :p 20:51:38 <FLHerne> As on the current 'normal' site, as opposed to the new one on the test site 20:51:46 <andythenorth> what do you prefer? 20:51:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: early development version :) 20:51:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: the png doesn't move either :) 20:52:07 <FLHerne> Flat colour is uninteresting :P 20:52:18 <Alberth> :) 20:52:50 <TrueBrain> I somewhat agree with you FLHerne; but it works so much easier :P 20:52:52 <Alberth> loading xpm in gvim is much more interesting :) 20:52:57 <andythenorth> downloading all the files I need and rebuilding the directory structure so I can edit pngs in it is uninteresting :P 20:53:12 <andythenorth> also - gradient stacked on top of gradient will suck 20:53:15 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: remember I only asked to change the colour of it :P 20:53:22 <TrueBrain> that last comment is very true 20:53:25 <TrueBrain> that looks buttttttt ugly 20:53:28 <FLHerne> The sharp angles on the bar things look odd with everything else rounded, too 20:53:50 <andythenorth> I refer you to my earlier comment :P 20:53:59 <andythenorth> "now I need to rebuild the entire website" 20:54:23 <FLHerne> But then the whole thing will look flat and angular :-( 20:54:46 <andythenorth> feel free to provide a patch 20:55:11 <andythenorth> you want to round the corners on the nav? 20:55:11 * FLHerne hurriedly shuts up :P 20:57:07 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3075/rounded.png 20:57:15 <andythenorth> border-radius: 7px 20:57:29 <andythenorth> you'd better set -webkit-border-radius and -moz-border-radius too :P 20:59:39 <TrueBrain> XeryusTC: there, I made a thread in the private forum to complain about myself 20:59:57 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: ugh; sorry, but that looks ugh 21:00:07 <andythenorth> [shrug] 21:00:17 <andythenorth> just responding to the crowd 21:00:24 <andythenorth> blame the crowd :P 21:01:27 <FLHerne> That looks a bit odd, actually :-( 21:01:43 <FLHerne> Maybe 2-3px radius, just to take the angle off? 21:02:09 <TrueBrain> crowd: I blame 21:02:21 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3076/rounded_lozenges.png 21:02:32 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: but if you are going to tweak, please make it scale better in the width etc :D :P 21:02:34 <XeryusTC> TrueBrain: i should probably make a thread about your lack of professionalism and to get you removed from the dev team 21:02:44 <FLHerne> Nice :D 21:03:14 <andythenorth> very 1998 21:03:18 <TrueBrain> XeryusTC: I would too if I were me 21:03:20 <TrueBrain> wait ..... 21:03:24 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: nice? really? 21:03:30 <TrueBrain> :P 21:03:43 * FLHerne grew up with Mac OS 7 :P 21:03:44 <TrueBrain> it looks .... too much Apple-ish 21:03:46 <TrueBrain> explains 21:03:48 <TrueBrain> a lot 21:03:49 <TrueBrain> really 21:03:51 <TrueBrain> also a lot of other things 21:03:52 <TrueBrain> not just this 21:03:54 <TrueBrain> really 21:03:55 <FLHerne> Everything as RoundRects :D 21:03:55 <TrueBrain> omg 21:03:57 <TrueBrain> :D 21:03:58 * TrueBrain hugs FLHerne 21:04:13 <XeryusTC> FLHerne: i feel sorry for you 21:04:22 * andythenorth has refreshed firebug now, so it's gone...forever 21:04:22 <Xaroth> FLHerne: what XeryusTC said. 21:04:31 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: smart move :D 21:04:35 * andythenorth grew up with OS 9 21:04:43 <andythenorth> so watched a lot of bomb icons 21:04:44 <FLHerne> Humorous link: http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Round_Rects_Are_Everywhere.txt 21:05:14 * FLHerne used 8.6, 9.1 and 10.4 21:05:20 <andythenorth> there should be an updated version, where steve explains that semi-transparent menus are everywhere 21:05:56 <FLHerne> Really basic error messages as hex were annoying :-( 21:07:46 * andythenorth -> bed 21:07:49 <TrueBrain> sleep well 21:07:50 <TrueBrain> en tnx 21:08:06 <andythenorth> np 21:08:08 <andythenorth> bye 21:08:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 21:17:34 <frosch123> night 21:17:38 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00874c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:11 <Terkhen> good night 21:18:23 <Wolf01> 'night Terkhen 21:22:46 <Wolf01> 'night all 21:22:48 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:28:14 *** SAC [5ae0e752@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 21:28:35 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:28:58 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has left #openttd [] 21:40:23 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0/20120605113340]] 21:43:57 *** Password42 [~chatzilla@50.37.127.99] has joined #openttd 21:44:07 *** Password42 is now known as Supercheese 22:01:35 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 22:05:37 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 22:09:27 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-113-135.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 22:17:06 <Rubidium> SpComb: Debian gets a new release every 2-3 years, we get a new server every 2-3 years. Then we have all kinds of new experience w.r.t. how the system should be set up, so we use the newer version of Debian (we'd be at oldstable at that moment, or testing is very near being tagged stable) 22:23:09 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.78.11] has joined #openttd 22:23:21 *** Supercheese_ [~chatzilla@50.37.127.99] has joined #openttd 22:25:36 *** adamkex_ [~adam@c213-89-133-68.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:25:49 *** adamkex [~adam@c213-89-133-68.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 22:26:30 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-80-63.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:26:48 *** Supercheese [~chatzilla@50.37.127.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:27:03 *** Supercheese_ is now known as Supercheese 22:27:50 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.74.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:29:31 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0e8ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 22:31:02 *** LordPixaII is now known as Pixa 22:33:04 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host217-43-26-179.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:44 *** Rienzilla [~rien@sinas.rename-it.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:38 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.70.67] has joined #openttd 22:45:38 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 22:46:29 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-113-135.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 22:49:14 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:51:40 *** TWerkhoven2 [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:57:44 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-39-39.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 23:02:00 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:02:33 *** APTX [APTX@aptx.org] has joined #openttd 23:03:24 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-62-115.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:03:28 *** Rienzilla [rien@sinas.rename-it.nl] has joined #openttd 23:03:44 *** kkimlabs__ [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 23:06:12 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.75.158] has joined #openttd 23:07:16 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:10:45 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.70.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:30:30 *** Pinkbeas1 [damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk] has joined #openttd 23:30:33 *** Pinkbeas1 [damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk] has quit [] 23:39:40 *** kkimlabs__ [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:55 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 23:46:39 *** vbnm [admin@aauh124.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 23:47:01 <vbnm> hi, i cant run 32bpp graphics :( 23:47:18 <vbnm> can you help me? 23:47:33 <Supercheese> What version of OTTD? 23:47:36 <vbnm> 1.2.1 23:47:51 <Rubidium> what graphics are you trying precisely? 23:47:51 <Supercheese> You'll need to find an appropriate .grf, what graphics are ya trying for? 23:47:55 <vbnm> i know i cant run packs of 32bpp 23:47:56 <vbnm> but 23:47:57 <Supercheese> jinx, lol 23:47:58 <vbnm> yes 23:48:07 <vbnm> i have 32bpp 2cc trains 23:48:14 <vbnm> but it doesnt work 23:48:15 <Supercheese> That's the easiest one to get started 23:48:18 <Supercheese> oh, hmm 23:48:32 <vbnm> when i load it i have no engies and no pax wagons 23:48:45 <Rubidium> what year does your game start? 23:49:02 <vbnm> i tried 2020 but wil try earlier 23:49:53 <Rubidium> only a few diesel and electric trains seem to have been 32bpp graphics with that 23:50:49 <vbnm> WOWOW it works!!!! 23:50:51 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-016-119.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 23:51:00 <vbnm> thanks 23:51:37 <Supercheese> Splendid 23:52:24 <Rubidium> have fun with them 23:52:40 <vbnm> :) 23:54:02 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:54:44 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd