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Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 06:24:24 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 06:31:51 <planetmaker> moin 06:32:05 <andythenorth> bonsoir 06:32:44 <planetmaker> on the other side of the atlantic right now, andythenorth? :-) 06:33:37 <andythenorth> my brain is still on last night 06:34:34 <planetmaker> :-O 06:35:05 <planetmaker> mine is already on tomorrow ;-) 06:35:20 <planetmaker> holidays ahead! yippih 06:35:41 <Supercheese> Uni classes about to begin, more like 06:35:47 <Supercheese> >_> 06:35:58 <planetmaker> at *that* time? 06:36:07 <Supercheese> Aug 20 for me 06:36:09 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E8CC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 06:36:12 <Supercheese> just around the corner 06:36:23 <planetmaker> woah, versity classes don't start before October here. Beginners courses in late September 06:40:18 <andythenorth> holidays :P 06:40:22 <andythenorth> what a strange idea 06:51:13 <planetmaker> I know, very strange ;-) 06:57:44 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.72.74] has joined #openttd 07:02:31 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-98-237.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:03:18 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.64.118] has joined #openttd 07:08:17 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.72.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:14:15 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.77.127] has joined #openttd 07:19:53 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.64.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:29:50 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.74.208] has joined #openttd 07:34:48 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.77.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:40:37 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-107-44.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:45:52 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.74.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:16:31 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 08:18:06 *** Phazorx [~pkolla@195.144.240.155] has joined #openttd 08:18:13 <Phazorx> morning 08:19:10 <Phazorx> got cargodest quetion - with opngfx data from 1.2.0 tip of git as of one hour ago complains about missing sprites, what else do i need for it to work? 08:19:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 08:22:46 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 08:37:48 <Eddi|zuHause> you need a development version of OpenGFX 08:38:02 <Eddi|zuHause> since you use a development version of OpenTTD 08:41:56 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 08:42:35 <Phazorx> aha... coopers have it i take? 08:44:29 <Phazorx> 533 B/s - 11.7 KB of 3.3 MB, 1 hour left 08:44:35 * Phazorx pings Ammler 08:45:43 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a non.critical error anyway. only some GUI sprites are affected, and they will be replaced by ?-Sprites 08:46:24 *** Timberdragon [Timberdrag@CPE-58-173-177-11.wucz1.woo.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 08:48:24 <Phazorx> oh... good to know... still DL speed sounds like an issue 08:50:02 <Ammler> good someone can tell me what is wrong :-) 08:52:06 <Terkhen> good morning 08:56:08 <Phazorx> Ammler: heya, i can tell you how it looks like from this end 08:57:26 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-97-92.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:57:54 <Phazorx> and not anymore... wget fetched it just fine this time, before it was breaking after ~12K going down to few hundreds bps 09:00:58 <NGC3982> Morning. 09:06:28 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@172.41.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has joined #openttd 09:06:28 *** KouDy [~KouDy@172.41.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:14:11 <Ammler> Phazorx: possible, a broken network card could cause this? 09:16:07 <Ammler> wget also resumes automatically but e.g. with firefox, it sucks 09:16:08 <Phazorx> on your end? 09:16:12 <Ammler> Phazorx: yes 09:16:22 <Phazorx> oh... you just fixed that or something? 09:16:49 <Ammler> no, we had some network issue yesterdayyesterday 09:17:13 <Phazorx> hmm... and apprently still having them? 09:17:48 <Ammler> yep, it comes and goes 09:18:04 <Phazorx> you got bonding emabled and multiple nics by any chance? 09:18:31 <Ammler> no 09:48:39 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 10:01:10 *** telanus1 [~telanus@196-210-226-47.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 10:04:47 *** telanus [~telanus@196-210-226-47.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:35:55 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:52:55 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@172.41.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:02:37 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176110771.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 11:02:51 <drac_boy> hi 11:11:55 *** KouDy [~KouDy@172.41.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has joined #openttd 11:31:04 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-28-241.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 11:47:52 *** ludde [~b@c80-217-210-102.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:05:13 *** gynter [gynter@kits.ee] has joined #openttd 12:05:46 <gynter> Hei, is there a recommended directory strugture for a NewGRF? 12:06:35 <gynter> Or everything except lang/ I can put where I like? 12:06:49 <Eddi|zuHause> correct 12:07:29 <Eddi|zuHause> but if you use an existing build system like the coop makefile, then you should stick to their directory structure 12:09:20 <gynter> hmm okei 12:09:36 <gynter> but pnml/pnfo are some coop Makefile specific things? eg temlates? 12:10:03 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 12:10:46 <Eddi|zuHause> basically you run it through the C preprocessor before compiling with grfcodec/nmlc 12:12:53 <Phazorx> what are major/minor differences between cargodest and yacd? 12:13:09 *** mark [~chatzilla@58-6-249-126.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:13:19 <Ammler> Phazorx: you mean cargodist :-) 12:13:24 <mark> hi, I wish to make some corrections to the wiki. how do I get a login to the wiki? 12:14:45 <Ammler> mark: http://account.openttd.org/en/signup 12:14:45 <Phazorx> err yea, cargodist 12:18:06 <gynter> is it possible to mix both nml and nfo togehter in the same grf? 12:19:39 <planetmaker> in principle yes. But it's a pain. And there's little reason to combine it 12:21:05 <drac_boy> probably if someone wanted a nfo station into a nml grf otherwise? 12:21:12 <planetmaker> you can use nmlc to create nfo code which then combined by a pre-processor with other nfo code which then can be coded by grfcodec 12:21:15 <drac_boy> (from what I could tell of earlier talks) 12:21:59 <planetmaker> drac_boy: currently it makes no sense to write any part of a station grf in nml. 12:22:31 <mark> tx Ammler 12:24:37 *** lkz [~lkz@luckz.de] has joined #openttd 12:25:09 *** Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 12:25:24 *** welshdragon [~mark-oftc@welshdragon.zernebok.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:26:23 *** luckz [~lkz@luckz.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:28:29 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:28:29 *** Zeknurn` is now known as Zeknurn 12:39:12 *** mark [~chatzilla@58-6-249-126.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 12:42:14 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.89.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:42:39 <FLHerne> planetmaker: What if you wanted a combined station/object grf? 12:42:59 <Ammler> make 2 12:43:03 <planetmaker> make two 12:43:04 <Ammler> or use nfo for objects 12:44:05 <drac_boy> yeah no harm in more than one grf for a set as long as it is not something crazy like eg stationtile1.grf stationtile2.grf etc heap of 100+ grfs in one single set :p 12:44:12 <drac_boy> just saying 12:44:14 <planetmaker> FLHerne: it's usually a very good idea to make two newgrfs if you touch two different (main) features 12:46:47 <drac_boy> FLHerne I have to ask as always, hows your progress coming along? heh :) 12:47:00 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:54:09 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.89.244] has joined #openttd 12:55:50 *** lilleman [~lilleman@h79-138-81-60.static.se.alltele.net] has left #openttd [] 12:56:41 <FLHerne> drac_boy: Slowly. Got distracted trying to play Elite in DOSbox now :P 12:56:47 <drac_boy> heh :p 12:56:59 <FLHerne> Old games are so much harder :-( 12:57:06 <FLHerne> No menus to fiddle with 12:57:12 * drac_boy is still a bit busy with upcoming website and model train layout but wants to eventually finish that grf I had started before 12:57:20 <drac_boy> :-) 13:02:57 <gynter> all images must be in png 13:03:00 <gynter> ? 13:07:28 <drac_boy> no idea I just use whatever I find comfortable 13:08:52 <gynter> hmm okay. 13:09:11 *** xiong [~xiong@c-24-23-242-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 13:09:28 <Ammler> why is openttd server segfault a security issue? (http://security.openttd.org/en/CVE-2012-3436) 13:09:49 <TrueBrain> connect the dots? :) 13:10:09 *** xiong [~xiong@c-24-23-242-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:10:20 <Ammler> but shouldn't security issues infect the system, not just openttd? 13:10:27 <planetmaker> gynter: with nmlc you can use many image formats; those which are supported by PIL. And those which support an 8bpp palette. png is "best" as it's both well compressed and easily viewable in a browser 13:10:36 <TrueBrain> Short description kinda tells you why it is a security issue Ammler :) 13:10:40 <planetmaker> gynter: with grfcodec you're constraint to png and pcx 13:11:04 <Ammler> TrueBrain: it tells that it does segfault openttd, thus my question 13:11:06 <gynter> planetmaker: thanks, that was the answer what I was looking for. Couldn't find it in the NML spec 13:11:21 <TrueBrain> short description says nothing about a segfault, does it? 13:11:51 <TrueBrain> in fact, only point 8 mentions it is a segfault 13:11:55 <TrueBrain> but it is not the important part 13:12:05 <Ammler> hmm 13:12:14 <Ammler> so it segfaults because of DOS? 13:12:22 <TrueBrain> huh? 13:12:26 <planetmaker> Ammler: because of invalid write 13:12:28 <TrueBrain> now you are just talking weird stuff :P 13:12:29 <Ammler> it is a bit confusing 13:12:36 <TrueBrain> you are making it confusing 13:13:05 <Ammler> well, I have a bugreport on distro tracker and wonder, if I need to update the package or if I just can wait for final release 13:13:09 <TrueBrain> Ammler: if I can crash your apache remotely, how would you call that? 13:13:32 <Ammler> if you crash my openttd server, I wouldn't care 13:13:37 <TrueBrain> not my question 13:13:43 <TrueBrain> if I can crash your APACHE remotely, how would you call that? 13:13:49 <Ammler> and I would for sure not call it security issue, except it infects the system too 13:14:07 <TrueBrain> right, sorry I tried to help 13:14:12 <Ammler> :-) 13:14:16 <planetmaker> Ammler: if a 3rd party can from remote DOS your programmes... that *is* a security issue 13:14:24 <planetmaker> what else is? 13:14:29 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: he doesn't are 13:14:31 <TrueBrain> are = care 13:14:41 <planetmaker> I read that ,yes 13:14:42 <Ammler> TrueBrain: that is not the same 13:14:54 <planetmaker> what is not the same? 13:15:21 <Ammler> if you can DOS a app, it is system issue, isn't? 13:15:34 <TrueBrain> you want to try it again, or do you keep dodging my questions? 13:15:40 <TrueBrain> else we are not going anywhere, and we can just stop talking 13:16:17 <planetmaker> Ammler: it's an issue of the application which can be DOSed 13:16:30 <planetmaker> In this case OpenTTD can be DOSed 13:16:42 <Ammler> but the DOS has also infect on the system 13:16:55 <planetmaker> it does. it crashes your server 13:16:58 <planetmaker> the openttd server 13:17:08 <planetmaker> I call that an issue. It can stop everyone playing. 13:17:18 <planetmaker> it's the same like people killing a www-server 13:17:48 <planetmaker> so a malicious person can kill every server there is out sthere 13:18:01 <planetmaker> by just connecting and doing the stuff as described 13:18:15 <Ammler> yes, I just wonder, if it hurts that much it needs an update or if I could wait for the final release 13:18:25 <planetmaker> that's up to you to decide 13:18:30 <TrueBrain> its a CVE ... 13:18:40 *** FlyingFoX [~quassel@sanktwendel.weh.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #openttd 13:19:06 <TrueBrain> but you don't care if people can crash your openttd server, so I guess you answered that yourself already 13:19:13 <planetmaker> Ammler: good service means to provide people with a security fix 13:19:26 <TrueBrain> (which is a very weird thing to say, as I would assume you would want to have your server in running order, but meh) 13:19:30 <planetmaker> so that malicious people cannot destroy your fun anymore 13:19:58 <Ammler> TrueBrain: yes, I wouldn't update my openttd because of it, but maybe I should update the distro package, that is my issue 13:20:15 <TrueBrain> you wouldn't update your server because it can be crashed? 13:20:18 <TrueBrain> you still run Apache 1.3? 13:20:21 <TrueBrain> I mean, come on ... 13:20:38 <Ammler> I wouldn't update because I don't run a server 13:20:46 <TrueBrain> @kban Ammler 300 this is enough 13:20:47 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] by DorpsGek 13:20:47 *** Ammler was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [this is enough] 13:20:52 <TrueBrain> I don't like trolls 13:25:49 *** mode/#openttd [-b *!~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] by DorpsGek 13:31:28 <TrueBrain> neofutur: atm I am not adding new mirrors, as I have to rewrite the system; do have a question for you: our server is at OVH too, but we have IPv6; you don't have it configured, or does it still need that professional paid package bla thingy doodle bla? 13:31:36 <TrueBrain> as we could really use an IPv6 enabled mirror :P 13:32:05 <planetmaker> :-) 13:32:48 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: you remember how much traffic/month we had btw? 13:33:01 <orudge> TrueBrain: I could offer a de mirror (including IPv6) if we need more. We're mostly OK for EU mirrors though, I think. I'm hoping the US mirror can get IPv6 soon, the ISP just keeps saying "oh yes, we'll have it soon"... :p 13:33:20 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: where / what / when? 13:33:30 <TrueBrain> orudge: if the US mirror could be IPv6, would be great :) 13:33:36 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: OVH, traffic/month, now 13:33:37 <TrueBrain> :P 13:33:45 <planetmaker> you mean like... http://stats.openttd.org/ ? 13:33:46 <orudge> TrueBrain: well, when it is, I'll let you know :) 13:33:54 <TrueBrain> orudge: for EU based mirrors, I would love some more south and east in the EU :) 13:33:57 <TrueBrain> orudge: great, tnx 13:34:04 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I mean, how much can we use 13:34:06 <TrueBrain> euh 13:34:07 <TrueBrain> hmm 13:34:07 <planetmaker> you mean the contract? a few TB 13:34:09 <TrueBrain> my question was very unclear :D 13:34:10 <TrueBrain> haha 13:34:13 <TrueBrain> sorry, and yes :) 13:34:24 <planetmaker> not sure exactly, I think 5TB 13:34:32 <TrueBrain> we are pushing more and more atm .. reached 0.5 TB a month last month, despite the mirrors :P 13:34:32 <orudge> OVH is generally 5TB or 10TB I think, then they'll slow you down to 10Mbps 13:34:40 <TrueBrain> k, tnx :) 13:35:15 <orudge> it's something like a euro per extra TB though 13:35:25 <planetmaker> hm, we do? the stats only tell 360GB 13:35:35 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: and the other 140GB was non-HTTP 13:35:42 <planetmaker> oh 13:36:05 <TrueBrain> orudge: yeah, I guess; just wanted to know how far we could grow before it becomes relevant :) 13:37:04 <TrueBrain> 150k BaNaNaS downloads in 3 days, lolz 13:37:27 <TrueBrain> it tells me ~150 GiB is done by mirrors in 3 days ... wuth? 13:37:29 <TrueBrain> lolz 13:37:42 <planetmaker> that's a lot 13:37:57 <TrueBrain> it feels like a lie, so I am going to check that :) 13:38:39 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176110771.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 13:38:45 <TrueBrain> it true ... lolz 13:38:56 <planetmaker> wow 13:39:19 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: is there somewhere actually a statistics with the non-http traffic? 13:39:31 <TrueBrain> OVH manager :P 13:39:31 <NGC3982> You guys need any help with that, btw? 13:39:40 * NGC3982 has a lonely gigabit connection he doesn't use. 13:40:00 <TrueBrain> depends on the coutnry NGC3982 ;) And I first need to fix the mirror system 13:40:04 <NGC3982> (Y) 13:40:07 <NGC3982> Im in sweden. 13:40:15 <TrueBrain> its your personal connection? 13:40:20 <TrueBrain> as in: home connection 13:40:56 <NGC3982> Although, im not that familiar with hosting mirrors, but it's a personal connection that i use, but since i only use it rarely i can limit myself to 100Mbit and let the rest go to something else.. I guess. 13:40:59 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: there it also tells you that we got 15 TiB of monthly traffic for free ;-) 13:41:11 <NGC3982> It's a simple home connection. 13:41:13 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: ah, lolz, tnx :) 13:41:21 <TrueBrain> NGC3982: my advise, don't use it for mirroring etc 13:41:26 <NGC3982> Ah, i see. 13:41:27 <TrueBrain> that is better spend on machines in a datacenter 13:41:28 <NGC3982> I thought so 13:41:39 <TrueBrain> you want to be able to reboot your computer etc 13:41:46 <TrueBrain> don't die under I/O etc 13:41:55 <NGC3982> Speaking of, im actually unsure what my linksys e3000 thinks about traffic like that. 13:41:58 <NGC3982> Yeah 13:42:35 <NGC3982> What am i talking about, i dont even have hardware that can support 100-120MB/s. 13:42:44 <TrueBrain> hehe 13:43:16 <TrueBrain> 3.7k BaNaNaS downloads initiated from the client yesterday 13:43:16 <NGC3982> Im am thinking about setting up some dedicated servers, though. 13:43:20 <TrueBrain> from 1.7k unique IPs 13:43:25 <TrueBrain> that is amasing ... 13:43:25 <NGC3982> :O 13:43:32 <NGC3982> Is that a record or something 13:43:38 <TrueBrain> nope 13:43:46 <NGC3982> and with BaNaNas i guess you are refering to NewGRF downloads and such? 13:44:01 <TrueBrain> Online Content 13:44:11 <NGC3982> Oh, even in-game online content downloads? 13:44:21 <TrueBrain> 2344 OpenTTD 1.2.1, 270 1.2.2-RC1, lolz 13:44:28 <NGC3982> That explains alot. 13:44:29 <TrueBrain> NGC3982: euh, yes? How else do you get those files? 13:44:38 <TrueBrain> you press Download, and it starts downloading? :) 13:44:41 <NGC3982> TrueBrain: I though you refered to the website statistics. 13:44:50 <TrueBrain> ah, like that 13:44:54 <TrueBrain> when you hit Download ingame 13:44:57 <TrueBrain> you make a HTTP POST call to our server 13:44:57 <NGC3982> thought* 13:45:02 <NGC3982> Oh 13:45:04 <NGC3982> I see 13:45:06 <NGC3982> Well. 13:45:10 <TrueBrain> which replies a list with URLs to fetch 13:45:15 <TrueBrain> (which are either http:// or ottd:// ) 13:45:17 <NGC3982> You guys built a big game. Cheers. 13:45:18 <NGC3982> :> 13:45:24 <TrueBrain> it got a bit out of hand :P 13:45:37 <NGC3982> TrueBrain: Is that really effective? 13:45:43 <TrueBrain> in what way? 13:46:20 <NGC3982> Doesn't fetching http URL's basiclly mean fetching a file from a place from a place? 13:46:23 <NGC3982> :D 13:46:37 <TrueBrain> sorry? 13:46:46 <NGC3982> Never mind. 13:46:53 <NGC3982> Im just using silly puns 13:47:01 <TrueBrain> I am not awake enough for that :P 13:47:35 <TrueBrain> so, extrapolating on the data I have, it seems we use 2TB a month atm, of which 1.5TB ends up at our mirrors :P 13:47:41 * NGC3982 hands out Swedish Tunnbröd in celebration of BaNaNas statistics. 13:47:53 <NGC3982> TrueBrain: Not bad. 13:48:31 <TrueBrain> @calc 600000 / 24 / 60 / 60 13:48:31 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 6.94444444444 13:52:50 <TrueBrain> @calc 28878 / (787155 + 28878) 13:52:51 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.0353882747389 13:52:53 <TrueBrain> @calc 28878 / (787155 + 28878) * 100 13:52:53 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 3.53882747389 13:52:59 <TrueBrain> 3.5% of our traffic is over SSL 13:53:26 <TrueBrain> < 1% is IPv6, lolz 13:55:42 <TrueBrain> @port 13:55:44 <TrueBrain> @ports 13:55:46 <TrueBrain> @openttd port 13:55:48 <TrueBrain> grrr 13:55:50 <TrueBrain> @openttd ports 13:55:52 * TrueBrain slaps DorpsGek 13:56:19 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: as you asked (and I was curious): in 3 days we received 2 GiB of data and send 50 GiB. 1.6 GiB of the incoming was for HTTP requests, the rest went mostly to ottd_content. Of the 50 GiB, most ofc is HTTP, but 2 important ones: 13:56:28 <TrueBrain> SVN used 1.5 GiB, and ottd_content used 12 GiB 13:56:37 <TrueBrain> so 12 GiB was used for old NewGRFs being downloaded 13:56:59 <planetmaker> interesting. Thanks :-) 13:57:07 <TrueBrain> the ottd_content is kinda odd tbh 13:58:02 <TrueBrain> but it clearly shows most bandwidth goes towards BaNaNaS services atm 13:58:14 <TrueBrain> I am scared with the upcoming 100+ MiB files :P 13:59:29 <planetmaker> yes... they'd get us into the critical range 13:59:41 <TrueBrain> it will push the system for sure :P 14:01:06 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I am pondering 14:01:14 <TrueBrain> maybe we should alter (or extend) our ToS with something like: 14:01:24 <TrueBrain> for files over 20 MiB, they will always be publically avaiable 14:01:27 <TrueBrain> (archive included) 14:01:48 <TrueBrain> (so not only the latest, but all) 14:02:31 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: How would that help? 14:02:33 <TrueBrain> I am a bit scared if such huge files won't push our ottd_content (which serves old content) too much 14:02:54 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: old content is served only by our own server, via a custom protocol 14:03:04 <TrueBrain> we cannot publish them on HTTP by our ToS 14:03:43 <TrueBrain> so if you have an old savegame, and press: download NewGRFs, it is very likely you won't hit any HTTP for them, and pull it out from our single server 14:03:46 <TrueBrain> non-mirror'd 14:03:57 <FLHerne> Oh, I see :P 14:04:16 <TrueBrain> this has always been fine, as the files are small 14:04:28 <TrueBrain> but of the 50 GiB in 3 days, 12 GiB already is for this old savegame support 14:04:33 <FLHerne> Surely you should just add that to your ToS anyway, to stop SAC etc breaking savegames? :P 14:04:39 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:04:58 <TrueBrain> its in our ToS, as several NewGRF authors want to be in control of their NewGRFs, which I respect 14:05:16 <TrueBrain> they feel having older NewGRFs on a public HTTP is asking for dumb users 14:05:58 <TrueBrain> but when files get big, 20+ MiB or so, it becomes a different problem :) 14:06:08 <NGC3982> Indeed. 14:06:09 <FLHerne> Posting a NewGRF anyway is asking for dumb users :P 14:06:26 <NGC3982> Offering obsolete material publicly is a usually a bad choise for opensource stuff. 14:06:33 <TrueBrain> it is 14:06:46 <TrueBrain> I did a trial by publishing it in an 'old' directory 14:06:47 <NGC3982> I remember myself as a teenager not understanding anything while trying to get software from sourgeforce 14:06:50 <TrueBrain> which you couldn't view 14:06:52 <NGC3982> sourceforge* 14:06:56 <TrueBrain> but some mirrors have ftp access 14:07:32 <NGC3982> TrueBrain: Well, of course you can make old material downloadable. I guess that is highly relevant in a developer perspective. 14:07:53 <NGC3982> Though, it feels like you really need to present it way, way back in line. 14:07:53 <TrueBrain> you can download it, just not by an easy click 14:07:56 <NGC3982> Yeah 14:07:58 <NGC3982> Exactly. 14:08:08 <TrueBrain> which, sadly, includes not publishing via HTTP 14:08:15 <TrueBrain> as people browse mirrors and fail to understand ;) 14:08:19 <NGC3982> So dumb people don't have to join and wonder why FIRS 0.0.2 doesn't work. 14:08:32 <TrueBrain> as you see now, trying to get, say, FIRS 0.0.2 is hard 14:08:36 <TrueBrain> you ened a Savegame which used it 14:08:37 <TrueBrain> basically 14:08:43 <TrueBrain> or know the exact details (grfid + md5) 14:08:46 <NGC3982> Hehe 14:08:50 <TrueBrain> which is unlikely 14:08:56 <TrueBrain> but as soon as stuff is on an HTTP, people will download it 14:09:02 <TrueBrain> but that also means we cannot mirror them 14:09:05 <TrueBrain> which is a bitch for large files :p 14:10:10 * TrueBrain wonders if he can get some mirrors crazy enough to run a custom daemon :P 14:20:17 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 14:25:36 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:32:45 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-34-173.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 14:33:46 *** arton [~arton@aakc62.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 14:34:16 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-28-241.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:49:03 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:23:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Message: NOT_REACHED triggered at line 1425 of /mnt/disk2/spiele/OpenTTD/trunk_clean/src/strings.cpp 15:23:10 <Eddi|zuHause> how the hell did i manage that? 15:24:17 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:24:33 <TrueBrain> you tell us :P 15:27:47 <Eddi|zuHause> in a FOR_ALL_VEHICLES_OF_TYPE, i put: SetDParam(0, eid); GetString(buffer, STR_VEHICLE_NAME, lastof(buffer)); 15:28:11 <Eddi|zuHause> in a first run i get all empty strings, and after switching newgrfs, i get this crash 15:29:26 <TrueBrain> well, at least you now know how you managed it :D 15:29:44 <Eddi|zuHause> at least that was the last thing i changed :) 15:35:16 <neofutur> TrueBrain: just that I dont need ipv6, the server would probably be be dedibox / online.net/free.fr datacenter ( better peerings ) 15:35:41 <neofutur> email me later when you need mirrors, my servers will probably still be there 15:36:15 <TrueBrain> we have too many mirrors close to AMS-IX :P 15:36:22 <TrueBrain> I want mirrors further away :D 15:36:30 <Eddi|zuHause> oh right 15:36:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess i should use STR_ENGINE_NAME... *patsch* 15:36:52 <TrueBrain> lol @ Eddi|zuHause :D 15:38:09 <neofutur> or query me, i m always on oftc even if i m not always on #openttd 15:38:55 <TrueBrain> hmm .. my wishlist: IPv6 mirror, and one in Japan and Australia 15:39:01 <TrueBrain> who to bribe for that ... 15:39:19 <neofutur> eh servers are more expensive in austrealia and japan ;) 15:39:31 <TrueBrain> bandwidth mostly, rather expensive 15:39:34 <TrueBrain> like, really expensive :P 15:39:59 <TrueBrain> well, you would expect that peering would be cheap, so maybe we can only allow certain IP ranges to connect to those 15:40:07 <Eddi|zuHause> so bandwidth is cheaper TO australia than WITHIN australia? 15:40:28 <TrueBrain> TO is paid by all users an ISP has, most likely in the monthly cost 15:40:34 <TrueBrain> as dedicated server, you also have to pay for it 15:40:43 <TrueBrain> so that is a weird conclusion you make there :) 15:41:04 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has joined #openttd 15:41:35 * neofutur asking to a friend that have servers in japan 15:41:59 <TrueBrain> please do after I have the new mirror system working :P 15:42:03 <TrueBrain> no clue on any ETA on that ;) 15:43:12 <neofutur> TrueBrain: the friend is a friench friend having his company in japan, is there some kind of official mirror list with links to sponsors ? 15:43:27 <TrueBrain> on our webpage, ofcourse 15:43:30 <neofutur> only the link on the forum http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=46889 15:43:36 <neofutur> or also on the main website ? 15:43:52 <TrueBrain> under Links, yes 15:44:04 <neofutur> ah also http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=46889 should say there already are mirrors in france, i wouldnt have lost my time :p 15:44:18 <TrueBrain> we don't have a mirror in FR 15:44:23 <TrueBrain> so that would be weird if it would say so 15:44:33 <neofutur> the OVH server is not in france ? 15:44:43 <neofutur> you told me you had servers at ovh ? 15:44:47 <TrueBrain> our main server is hosted by OVH, which is in France, yes 15:44:53 <TrueBrain> but it is not part of the mirror rotation 15:45:04 <TrueBrain> I am just complaining that we have too many mirrors around AMS-IX :P 15:45:12 <TrueBrain> NL, GB, DE, FR ... 15:45:30 <TrueBrain> (the main objective of the mirror network these days is to allow you to download the binaries faster :)) 15:45:38 <TrueBrain> so, more peering == better 15:45:47 <neofutur> I moved most of my customers from ovh to dedibox those last years 15:46:05 <neofutur> dedibox have much better peerings, and other advantages 15:46:15 <TrueBrain> but they are in FR too, not? 15:46:18 <neofutur> yes 15:46:29 <TrueBrain> so they won't have a peering to most Russian ISPs 15:46:32 <neofutur> dedibox/online.net is free.fr 15:46:32 <TrueBrain> or to ... Egypt 15:46:39 <TrueBrain> or do ... what else do we have there .. ;) 15:46:39 <neofutur> one of the biggest ISPs in france 15:46:46 *** telanus1 [~telanus@196-210-226-47.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:47:00 <TrueBrain> the reality is, that most ISPes in GB, DE, NL, FR all peer (excluding many other peers, ofc) in AMS-IX 15:47:02 <neofutur> as an ISO they have much more peerings than OVH 15:47:19 <neofutur> ISP 15:47:21 <TrueBrain> hmm, let me put this in another way 15:47:33 <TrueBrain> if an AS has many peerings, that doesn't always mean better latency 15:47:41 <TrueBrain> an AS with 4 peerings can serve many more ISPs better than one with 100 15:47:52 <TrueBrain> we have a few peering rings with many members 15:47:56 <TrueBrain> which are much better 15:48:01 <neofutur> well i m french and I live in Peru 15:48:13 <TrueBrain> and this is all fine and all, but my issue is: we have a lot of mirrors close to AMS-IX 15:48:15 <neofutur> I often have problems connecting my servers at ovh 15:48:17 <TrueBrain> they all kinds share the same peerings 15:48:26 <TrueBrain> one way or the other, give or take 1 hop 15:48:27 <neofutur> and need to first ssh to dedibox, then ssh to ovh from there 15:48:37 <neofutur> also, ovh is dropping too many dynamic ips 15:48:49 <TrueBrain> so I would really like servers more to the east etc 15:48:53 <TrueBrain> so we gain better connectivity there 15:49:05 <TrueBrain> Asia, Japan, Australia, Africa .. 15:49:16 <TrueBrain> those all go over transit atm 15:49:21 <TrueBrain> which means their latency is high 15:49:45 <neofutur> http://abuse.ovh.net/index.php?action=blockedByASN 15:49:53 <neofutur> if you serve only fance and europe , ovh is good 15:50:02 <neofutur> for the rest of the world its pretty awful 15:50:12 <TrueBrain> I really don't care :) 15:50:17 <TrueBrain> it is of no relevance to OpenTTD :) 15:50:24 <neofutur> free.fr peerings : http://www.peeringdb.com/view.php?asn=12322 15:50:27 <TrueBrain> (not meaning to be rude, but it is not my point at all) 15:50:29 <TrueBrain> peerings are irrelevant 15:51:08 <TrueBrain> you seem to fail what I try to say at all :) 15:51:20 <TrueBrain> an ISP in FR won't have a direct peering to, say, Egypt 15:51:21 <neofutur> sorry, just telling you my experience and opinion concerning ovh 15:51:27 <neofutur> and why i moved from there 15:51:29 <TrueBrain> yes, but that is not important :) 15:51:37 <TrueBrain> we are not here to talk bad about one ISP or good about another :) 15:51:41 <TrueBrain> this is not the channel for that ;) 15:51:54 <neofutur> sorry, wont talk of this anymore 15:52:23 <neofutur> but we were initially speaking of a mirror for openttd 15:52:35 <neofutur> and mine would not be on ovh, telling you why 15:52:41 <TrueBrain> and that is fine 15:52:45 <TrueBrain> done and closed :) 15:52:54 <NGC3982> TrueBrain: About the discussion we had before. 15:53:03 <NGC3982> TrueBrain: ..Do you need more mirrors? 15:53:14 <NGC3982> more/faster/bigger. 15:53:17 <TrueBrain> we need more mirrors around the globe 15:53:18 <NGC3982> M*. 15:53:32 <TrueBrain> like I am trying to point out: 80% of our mirrors are concentrated around AMS-IX 15:53:38 <NGC3982> Speaking of, how does the community pay for stuff like that? 15:53:38 <TrueBrain> which doesn't really help anymore at this point 15:53:53 <TrueBrain> we have, for example, only 1 mirror in the US 15:53:56 <NGC3982> Oh 15:53:59 <TrueBrain> the whole US, goes to 1 single point 15:54:10 <TrueBrain> while in Europe there are 4 mirrors very close to eachother :P 15:54:18 <TrueBrain> NGC3982: the community doesn't pay for it 15:54:21 <TrueBrain> mirrors are all sponsored 15:54:27 <TrueBrain> (in the form of an ad on the page) 15:54:32 <NGC3982> I see. 15:54:36 <TrueBrain> most current mirrors are servers who have bandwidth idle 15:54:39 <NGC3982> Hm 15:54:40 <TrueBrain> which they pay for anyway 15:54:44 <NGC3982> Can i send you a PM? 15:54:48 <TrueBrain> sure 16:11:17 <Eddi|zuHause> which newgrf properties can i safely initialize to 0? 16:19:26 <TrueBrain> the second from the left *troll* 16:19:33 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently not the refit properties :) 16:22:44 <TrueBrain> btw, neofutur, just as a For The Record, OVH has much more peerings: http://www.peeringdb.com/view.php?asn=16276 vs http://www.peeringdb.com/view.php?asn=12322 16:23:03 <gynter> Does loading sprites from multiple graphic files takes more memory than using one file for multiple sprites (eg putting all rails to one png)? 16:23:22 <TrueBrain> I am still wondering why mirrors in other continents are so hard to get ... 16:23:28 <TrueBrain> maybe because most of our community is EU? I guess .. 16:27:26 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5C05.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:28:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5C05.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:28:23 <Eddi|zuHause> gynter: no, the sprites are put in the grf, the pngs are irrelevant 16:28:56 *** arton [~arton@aakc62.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:30:04 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... NML up to 1.8GB memory usage (RES) 16:30:32 *** arton [~arton@aakc62.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 16:30:37 <gynter> so basically who cares how many png-s I have? 16:31:02 <Eddi|zuHause> gynter: right. pngs are only used during compiling of the grf 16:33:20 <Eddi|zuHause> and this feels longer than in the past... 16:33:32 <gynter> ah, okay, but when using same sprite alignment multiple times it's good to define a template? Does defining the template decreases memory usage and grf size? 16:34:22 <Eddi|zuHause> defining a template reduces your copy-pasting of code 16:34:24 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing else 16:34:45 <gynter> okay, thanks for the info 16:40:28 <Eddi|zuHause> blÀrghs... i should really convert CETS to NFO :p 16:40:51 <Eddi|zuHause> took like 15 minutes to compile... 16:42:29 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:43:19 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: did you consider using the caching property of new(est) NML? 16:43:34 <planetmaker> the makefile doesn't yet support it. Or rather it simply needs updating of the nmlc parameters 16:43:48 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: CETS doesn't use nmlc for graphics conversion 16:44:03 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: this is purely reading the .nml and outputting the .nfo 16:44:06 <planetmaker> you mean nml->nfo->grfcodec ? 16:44:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 16:44:17 <planetmaker> right. You might consider trying nmlc with caching 16:44:25 <planetmaker> not sure whether it's faster, but might 16:44:45 <planetmaker> as only modified sprites need be re-encoded 16:44:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't matter 16:44:52 <planetmaker> tested? 16:45:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it will not matter as long as the nml->nfo step already takes 15 minutes (which it did not used to... was 2 minutes before) 16:46:31 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the current bottleneck is parsing the nml file and keeping the tree in memory 16:46:51 <planetmaker> I see, ok 16:46:58 <planetmaker> before what? 16:47:10 <Eddi|zuHause> last month, when i compiled the last time 16:47:16 <planetmaker> o_O 16:47:33 <planetmaker> you should talk to hirnundo with about that when he returns from his holidays 16:47:38 <planetmaker> *Hirundo 16:48:20 <V453000> nuts takes about 10-15 minutes to compile too :< 16:48:41 <planetmaker> V453000: also try to use caching 16:48:49 <V453000> how do I do that? 16:49:00 <planetmaker> some command line parameter... try nmlc --help :-) 16:49:07 <V453000> oh right 16:49:14 <planetmaker> I don't know by heart either; I haven't implemented it yet either 16:49:18 <planetmaker> :-( 16:49:40 <gynter> nmlc is pure python right? 16:49:40 <V453000> I need to update NML for that I guess 16:49:43 <planetmaker> but in essence it keeps in memory the sprites as they're needed in the grf. And only re-encodes them when changed 16:49:50 <planetmaker> yes, to about newest nightly 16:50:05 <neofutur> 18:41 < TrueBrain> I am still wondering why mirrors in other continents are so hard to get ... 16:50:05 <planetmaker> s/memory/cache/g 16:50:27 <neofutur> imo, because servers and bandwidth are much more expensive there, nothing more 16:50:31 <planetmaker> NGC3982: you talked about ads / advertizement... care to frame me in? 16:51:16 <neofutur> few people have servers in japan or australia 16:51:27 <NGC3982> planetmaker: Id rather do that in PM, if that's ok with you? 16:52:08 <planetmaker> sure 16:54:17 <V453000> ok I see refittable_cargo_types is obsolete :z 16:55:23 <V453000> or 16:55:29 <planetmaker> yes... the preferred way is to specify the cargos exactly which you allow refit 16:55:33 <planetmaker> and which not 16:55:53 <planetmaker> and the general case by cargo class, if you want to skip specific cargo configuration 16:56:04 <V453000> I think I do that already 16:56:54 <planetmaker> there's two new properties cargo_allow_refit and cargo_disallow_refit which takes explicit cargo labels 16:57:26 <planetmaker> it's a bit of work to convert, sadly. But it frees you from dealing with cargo class changes for single cargos breaking your grf 16:57:36 <planetmaker> which happend sometimes in the past. Like for ECS and FIRS 16:58:47 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-013-150.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 16:58:52 <V453000> hm 17:06:31 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffcb9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:18:04 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the only sane way i know to fix it would be modularizing nml files 17:28:37 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:18dc:bfa2:baef:7a6e] has joined #openttd 17:28:40 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:33:07 * neofutur meeding citybuilding player to test the citybuilding settings of his server 17:33:35 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: that might be interesting. But... also very difficult 17:34:36 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the other thing that may help would be a memory-efficient parser implemented in C(++) 17:34:47 <planetmaker> yes... 17:35:39 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, that sounds slightly better than last time: real 4m11.603s user 3m24.201s sys 0m6.334s 17:36:43 *** nicfer [~Administr@190.50.6.165] has joined #openttd 17:40:07 <Eddi|zuHause> now imagine we had 32bpp extra zoom files :) 17:41:35 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E8CC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:43:17 <Eddi|zuHause> conceptual problem: the specs say articulated parts need weight zero, but how do you set the weight to zero if the articulated part is the same as the front vehicle? 17:45:49 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: those 32bpp extra zoom files would be cached... would they lengthen encoding much then? 17:46:41 <Eddi|zuHause> probably not 17:46:49 <Eddi|zuHause> but they definitely increase file size 17:47:50 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:47:53 *** NataS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 17:52:25 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 17:52:56 <mikegrb> DELETE-0-BUVM-swap-7891630 vg1 -wi-ao 1.00T 17:53:37 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: just cets r701 increased compile time by 35% 17:53:46 <mikegrb> er, wrong window 18:01:47 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has joined #openttd 18:01:50 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:02:26 <Alberth> o/ 18:07:13 *** nicfer [~Administr@190.50.6.165] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:08:38 <planetmaker> hi Alberth 18:09:55 *** Ciprian [Ciprian@dyn-89.136.61.9.tm.upcnet.ro] has joined #openttd 18:09:58 <Ciprian> Hi 18:10:05 <planetmaker> 'lo 18:10:11 <Ciprian> Does anyone knows how can I delete deserts in the scenario mode? 18:10:23 <Alberth> hi planetmaker 18:10:24 <planetmaker> try ctrl+build desert 18:13:56 <Ciprian> Thank you 18:18:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:19:13 <Alberth> yo andy 18:19:55 <andythenorth> hi hi 18:21:34 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r24462 /trunk/src/lang/ (hungarian.txt portuguese.txt turkish.txt): 18:21:34 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:21:34 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 changes by IPG 18:21:34 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: portuguese - 18 changes by ricardoespsanto 18:21:34 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: turkish - 7 changes by otrkmen 18:22:48 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has joined #openttd 18:50:33 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has joined #openttd 18:50:43 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:50:48 <Wolf01> hello 18:51:05 <Alberth> hello Wolf01 18:58:49 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d82169c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:01:08 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.89.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:02:23 <Ciprian> Does anyone know how to use the ECS NewGRFs? 19:03:48 <Pinkbeast> What is the difficulty you are having, please? 19:05:41 <Ciprian> None of the NewGRFs is loading, except the Town GRF 19:05:54 <Ciprian> The error given is "Town GRF must be loaded first" 19:06:13 <Pinkbeast> Have you tried rearranging the order of the GRFs in the selection interface? 19:20:21 *** Ciprian [Ciprian@dyn-89.136.61.9.tm.upcnet.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:20:40 *** KouDy [~KouDy@172.41.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:36:00 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... not sure if this is a "bug" or something, but the depot-size-estimation seems to call the sprite with cargo type "buy menu" (because there is no real vehicle yet), but then it will get the buy menu sprite which might not be the correct representation for the later "real" depot sprite 19:36:23 <Eddi|zuHause> this shows with the cropped FISH sprites 19:36:43 <andythenorth> interesting 19:36:55 <andythenorth> am I not supposed to be providing some extra sprite for the depot? 19:37:05 <andythenorth> I wrote a ticket for it I think :P 19:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause> so FISH might need to check extra_callback_info1 in the buy menu chain 19:37:17 <andythenorth> more newgrf bureaucracy :P 19:37:57 <Eddi|zuHause> or alternatively in the "normal" chain 19:38:25 <Eddi|zuHause> checking for EIT_IN_DEPOT (or whatever the nml equivalent of that is) 19:38:55 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yes, depot size estimation of ships/aircraft uses buy menu chain with EIT_IN_DEPOT 19:38:57 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4087 19:39:03 <frosch123> i think we even documented that 19:39:49 <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Sprites_in_GUI 19:39:56 <frosch123> footnote 1 19:42:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so in the purchase-sprite-chain, you need to check extra_callback_info1, if 0x20: return cropped sprite, else return normal sprite 19:46:03 <Eddi|zuHause> on a related note: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/resize_purchase_list2.diff <-- now with left-aligning vehicles and separate handling of depot and purchase list sprites 19:47:07 <Eddi|zuHause> funnily the gui makes sure the sprite is never drawn outside of the window 19:50:17 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 19:51:24 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51:53 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 19:52:00 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 19:59:40 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176110771.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 19:59:52 <drac_boy> hi 20:00:34 <Alberth> hi 20:01:04 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: can't test right now sorry :| 20:27:08 *** Rens [51ccb764@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:27:31 *** Rens [51ccb764@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [] 20:31:47 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-29.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 20:36:28 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-107-44.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:48:56 *** nicfer [~Administr@190.50.23.167] has joined #openttd 20:49:24 <nicfer> hello 20:49:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:53:58 <Alberth> hi 20:54:03 <nicfer> I want to create a map with sparse cities without town minimum distance patch... I think I'll need to use the scenario editor but that seems too fixed 20:54:14 <nicfer> no randomness 20:54:32 <Yexo> you can specify a custom number of cities when randomly generating them 20:54:41 <Yexo> have you tried simply setting a very low number? 20:56:23 <nicfer> yes but towns tend to generate clumped together while the rest of the map is void 20:57:20 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-78-146-114-242.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 20:57:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that is how randomness works... 20:58:03 <V453000> :D 20:58:19 <Eddi|zuHause> if you want more even distribution, you want _less_ randomness 20:59:23 <nicfer> with minimum town distance I get towns spread nicely without overflowing 20:59:49 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-36-54.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:00:28 <nicfer> and I'm using a patchpack that doesn't have that patch, and I can't load pregenerated maps 21:00:43 <nicfer> s/maps/saves 21:01:10 <Alberth> generate one, look up the coordinates, and copy it in the SE ? 21:01:46 <Alberth> just clicking a few times yourself is easier probably 21:14:50 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffcb9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-78-146-114-242.as13285.net] has left #openttd [] 21:19:26 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has left #openttd [] 21:21:09 *** KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.134.107] has joined #openttd 21:21:58 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:38 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 21:25:02 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176110771.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 21:39:17 *** art0n [~arton@aakd121.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 21:42:35 *** arton [~arton@aakc62.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:03:48 <Wolf01> 'night all 22:03:51 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:04:06 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 22:22:32 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 22:27:45 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-36-54.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120731150526]] 22:35:51 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:42:35 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 23:09:16 *** APTX [APTX@2001:470:1f0b:1a9d:240:63ff:fefb:5994] has joined #openttd 23:11:37 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.74.233] has joined #openttd 23:16:25 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-29.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:18:58 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.72.157] has joined #openttd 23:22:00 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:43 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 23:24:10 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.74.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:25:19 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Hugs to all] 23:27:13 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.76.147] has joined #openttd 23:31:27 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.70.232] has joined #openttd 23:32:00 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.72.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:32:10 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Quit: michi_cc] 23:32:13 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 23:32:16 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 23:36:45 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.76.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:37:34 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-22-77.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 23:37:37 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 23:38:14 *** art0n [~arton@aakd121.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:38:26 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.66.75] has joined #openttd 23:38:47 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176110771.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 23:38:49 <drac_boy> hi 23:42:57 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-0-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:43:30 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.70.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:47:48 *** art0n [~arton@aakd121.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd